Kempner: Making money on the Hillary and Donald show

His role in the rise of Donald Trump’s presidential fortunes: “None whatsoever.… I don’t have that much power.” (As a top chief at NBC, Zucker OK’d “The Apprentice” with Donald Trump, a show that greatly increased the future presidential candidate’s national exposure. And under Zucker, CNN gave Trump especially extensive coverage of early rallies before the primaries.)

Future of CNN’s presence in Atlanta, where about 1,700 of the operation’s 3,300 employees are based: “Atlanta remains the heart and soul of CNN, and that will continue to be the case.”

Impact on CNN’s Atlanta operations from AT&T’s planned purchase of the network’s parent, Time Warner: “I don’t anticipate it will have any impact on the Atlanta operations at all.” http://www.myajc.com/news/business/cnn-boss-sees-no-change-in-atlanta-under-att/nszF7/

Job growth at CNN (after cutting about 200 positions in late 2014): “For the last two years CNN has been investing heavily, hiring hundreds of people, and, frankly, that is going to continue. This is a time of tremendous growth and expansion at CNN.”

How badly he wants to hire journalist Megyn Kelly away from Fox News with her contract is coming up for renewal soon: “She is a very talented journalist,” is all he would say.

Reaction to a media report that leaders at 21st Century Fox favor him to take over Fox News in the wake of chief Roger Ailes' departure amid allegations of sexual harassment: "I don't see that happening."

How much cable news ratings are up* (Oct., 2016 vs. Oct. 2015)

Total viewers

Fox News — 43 percent

CNN — 98 percent

MSNBC — 127 percent

Viewers 25-54 years old (the segment news networks sell to advertisers)

Fox News — 67 percent

CNN — 131 percent

MSNBC — 153 percent

*Total day numbers

No one in the TV world may be more upset after election day than the leaders at Fox News, CNN and MSNBC.

It has been a beautiful year – really, a beautiful two years — for the news networks’ ratings, despite criticism over coverage of the most horrifying and grotesquely entertaining presidential campaign in recent memory.

All three cable news networks apparently are on track to have their most watched years ever.

CNN may come out the happiest of all. Pumped up by the Hillary and Donald show, CNN did something that it hasn’t done consistently in about 15 years: Beat Fox News in ratings that advertisers care about the most, both in prime time and for full days, over an extended period.

CNN boasted cheerily about being the most watched cable news network in October among viewers who are 25 to 54 years old. That’s the segment advertisers focus on for news networks. (Sorry teenagers and elders. It’s just business.)

Yet CNN’s New York-based president, Jeff Zucker, isn’t predicting that his main news network has toppled Fox News for the long haul.

He’s not trash talking, at least not during an hourlong chat I had with him recently when he was in town to visit the troops at CNN Center.

“It’s incredibly tight now between us and Fox,” Zucker told me. “I would expect that race to continue to be very tight.”

I pointed out to Zucker that his boss, John Martin, the head of Time Warner’s Turner unit, told Variety that CNN’s rise to the top of the ratings heap is a question of when, not if.

“We have a really tough competitor in front of us,” Zucker said. “And I would never take anything for granted or take them lightly.”

It’s smart to manage expectations, even if you’re the guy brought in nearly four years ago to boost CNN’s lagging ratings. Zucker is the first CNN president not based at the supposed headquarters in Atlanta, but in New York, where many of the network’s shows are now.

Cable news, of course, is fighting turf for lefties and righties. Navigating our polarized viewing habits is tough. And cable networks continue to face complaints that they’ve jumped the line between responsible journalism and pandering for ratings.

New York Times executive editor Dean Baquet recently told the Financial Times that campaign coverage by CNN and Fox News has offered viewers “news masquerading as entertainment” and the conduct is “in the long run, bad for democracy and those institutions.”

I asked Zucker about that. It wasn’t a very satisfying answer. He praised both CNN and the New York Times campaign coverage.

Missing the point?

“I’m not going to stoop to criticize others in a way that’s highly inappropriate,” he said. “It’s just wrong. He’s just wrong. And many of his reporters have been part of our distinctive coverage. Perhaps he missed that point.”

Of course, ratings are crucial in the TV business.

Fox News still has far more total viewers than CNN or MSNBC. Zucker doesn’t predict that will change any time soon.

That’s in large part because Fox News gets an especially hefty helping of older folks not in the crucial 25-54 category. In fact, the median age of its prime time viewers is 67, compared to CNN’s hardly spry 59 and MSNBC’s 63.

At Fox News, they regularly tune in, even if there isn’t big news, for top-notch jouster Megyn Kelly and conservative personalities Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity.

I tried to get Fox News senior executives to comment publicly about what they see ahead for their news outlet, which launched 20 years ago and has led in ratings most of that time. The best I could get on the record from a spokeswoman was an emailed statement: the network “has the top three rated programs in the 25-54 younger demographic and three out of the top five rated programs in the 18-49 category, including The O’Reilly Factor, The Kelly File and Hannity. We will let the data speak for itself.”

So, there’s that.

Fox News senior executives previously announced to staffers steps they’re taking “to innovate,” including building a new studio, updating work space for employees and planning upgrades to FoxNews.com.

This kind of reminds me of the stuff I heard from top CNN executives more than a decade and a half ago, when the network was still on top but leaders struggled to shift fast enough as Fox News overtook them.

Still, Fox News has a big advantage: It keeps loyal viewers even when there isn’t big news. Kind of.

All cable news networks tend to lose viewers when elections are over, but Fox News seems to have a less steep drop off.

Zucker’s path: originality

Zucker is pursuing another path for CNN.

He’s predicting more spending to bolster CNN’s giant advantage online, but adds that “TV still pays the bills.” (I’m told the amped-up ratings this year have generated $100 million more than expected in revenue.)

So he’s OK’d a fresh slate of original series and films adding to shows like those with Anthony Bourdain and Lisa Ling.

He told me the company will invest more in investigative and enterprise reporting. And he said he wants to expand use of big panels of on-air journalists, analysts and talkers, which the network has used especially heavily during its presidential campaign coverage.

Those panels can be as insightful as watching hot air expelled from balloons. But Zucker said they resonate with viewers. (I talked to him before the latest round of leaked emails indicating CNN's paid contributor Donna Brazile fed town hall or debate questions to the Clinton campaign. Maybe that mess will change his mind. Brazile, by the way, is out at CNN.)

Of course, what CNN really needs is a never-ending geyser of super hot news.

Usually there’s a post-election cooling period, but after this wacky campaign season, is anyone really expecting we’ll get the breather most of us need?

“If you had presented this as a script to any Hollywood studio, you would have been thrown out immediately,” Zucker said. “You could never sell somebody on all the twists and turns this story has taken… Who knows what tomorrow will bring?”