Greensboro — If there is one thing we know about college football, it is that usually the numbers do not lie.

And when it comes to judging the success of the ACC's most recent expansion, which will enter its fifth season in 2008, there are some numbers that this league cannot escape:

• 1-9: The ACC's record in BCS Bowl games. The league has only won once on college football's biggest stage and that came when Florida State beat Virginia Tech, which then was not a league member, in the Sugar Bowl for the 1999 national championship. The ACC has lost nine straight BCS games.

• 2-17: The ACC's record against non-conference teams ranked in the Top 10 over the past four years.

• 9-31: The ACC's record against non-conference teams ranked in the Top 25 the past four years.

• 0: The number of times the ACC has received an at-large bid to a BCS game.

"The numbers are what they are and it's up to us to start winning these games against top opponents," N.C. State coach Tom O'Brien said. "People are going to criticize us but until we start winning we really don't have a leg to stand on."

The critics have been quick to call the addition of Miami, Virginia Tech, and Boston College an abject failure just four years in. They point to the demise of the programs at Florida State (14-12 the past two seasons) and Miami (12-13 the past two seasons), which were supposed to keep the ACC in the national-championship picture on an annual basis. They point to the inability to sell out the first three ACC championship games, which has been moved from Jacksonville to Tampa for 2008 and 2009 before going to Charlotte in 2010 and 2011.

One national scribe, Matt Hayes of The Sporting News, suggested recently that the ACC had a "little brother complex" when it came to the SEC, the league against which it recruits the most.

"The ACC just isn't there yet," said Hayes, who is here for the league's annual preseason football meetings. "It's just different from the SEC."

ACC officials, players, and coaches will tell you that the perception that their league is a notch below the best in college football is just that, a perception. And the only thing that the league needs to change that perception is time.

"The first thing you have to ask yourself is, where would we be if we had not had expansion?" said ACC commissioner John Swofford, who is expected to field questions on the topic when he has his annual state of the conference breakfast this morning at Reynolds Plantation. "If you look at the reality and the economics of college football, there is simply no way we could have stayed at nine teams."

There is no question that expansion has been a financial success for the ACC. The expanded league signed a seven-year, $258-million television contract, which was double the revenue it generated as a nine-team league. That additional money has allowed the schools to invest millions in upgrading their football facilities and coaching staffs. And that investment, they believe, is going to pay off down the road.

"Look at the coaches in this league. Look at the facilities we've built. Attendance is up," said Butch Davis, North Carolina's second- year coach. "These things go in cycles. It is just a matter of time before the ACC gets there. Everything is pointed in the right direction."

ACC coaches feel they must be doing something right. The ACC had seven players taken in the first round of the 2008 NFL Draft, more than any other league. Over the past three seasons the ACC has had 25 first- round picks, four more than the SEC.

"I don't think the NFL thinks this is a bad league," Wake Forest coach Jim Grobe said. "It's just that our league is so balanced. We don't have one dominating team."

The league's players say they sometimes hear from their buddies in the SEC and other conferences who call to knock the ACC. And there is only one way to shut them up.

"The ACC just has to step up and start winning these games that are played on the big stage," Clemson quarterback Cullen Harper said. "We can talk all we want about how good our league is and I think the ACC can play with anybody. But none of that matters unless you win."

The ACC gets its next test on Aug. 30 when Clemson, the favorite to win the 2008 conference championship, goes to Atlanta to play Alabama, which will be picked to finish no better than third in the SEC West.

"We're going to representing Clemson but we're also going to be representing the ACC," said Harper, a native of Alpharetta. "That is a game we need to win."