ajcsportstalk

By ughh

December 12, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

trade for peavy (you have to include yunel escobar) get faffy get garland and sheets

By muxi87

December 12, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

I wanted Burnett, but in all honesty, $16 million guaranteed for 5 years would’ve been hard to swallow for him.

Come on Wren—put your attention on Sheets now!

By BullDawg79

December 12, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

Build from within….

Lower prices to reflect the team’s new payroll.

Sit back and laugh at the Yankees as their latest attempt to buy a championship fails miserably.

By Anthony

December 12, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

In all honesty I did not want Burnett. He has a history of not staying healthy the enitre season accept this past season. And you want to give him a five year deal? That’s stupid. I would rather you sign Ben Sheets for two years (at maybe 8million if you could). That way if does do that well or get’s hurt you don’t have to eat that salary for a long period. We have to go back to building from within (from our farm system). Chipper, Rafael, Andruw,Jeff Franceour. You get the picture?

By Shaun

December 12, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

Go Get Peavy!!! Sign Furcal. I will miss Yunel, but you gotta do what you gotta do as Bobby Cox so eloquently put recently.

By Lowcountry Bulldawg

December 12, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

Thank goodness the Yanks saved the Braves from themselves. Desperate for pitching the Braves almost signed another Hampton!

Go get Peavy, stay away from Sheets. How about Randy Johnson? I know he prefers the West Coast but still.

Maybe go spend some of that money on Pat Burrell. Good leader in the Phillies locker room. Offer him 4yr./32 million.

By Brandon

December 12, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

i agree, go after sheets. he is a talent. as braves fans we have all seen what he has done against us. with the exception of two seasons, he has been about as healthy as burnett. give him a 2 year deal now before the yankees sign him as well. also try jon garland. on the trade front, don’t overpay to get something just to get it. build for another year and get someone for the 2010 season.

By RidgeRunner

December 12, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

Time to go hard after Ben Sheets and quickly resign Smoltz before that becomes a problem.

By Andy

December 12, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

This team has fallen so so far. It is just hard to realize how low the braves keep falling……

By wr setser

December 12, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

it’s time to move on.i think burnett was only using wren to get the best deal he could the from yankees.he never said before wren offered about eighty million that atlanta was to far from his home.i really don’t see much use in the other teams playing this season. lets just give the world series title to the yankees and save buying all those tickets.

rolling stone

By Bill Gullion

December 12, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

I am appalled the New York Yankees are paying long term contracts worth almost a billion dollars to two baseball players. Don’t they realize we’re on the brink of a depression. It’s about time people started boycotting major professional baseball games and their excessively high ticket prices for those people who have now or will soon lose their jobs.

With bad business decisions when will teams like the Yankees and the Nets approach Congress for their bailouts.

By Tony

December 12, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

Burnett was a reach - go bargain hunting and sign Sheets and another young starter. Do not go after Lowe!

By Brian

December 12, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

I don’t think Wren will so much focus on that “front line starter” as he will to get quanity. I think he’ll trade for one and buy the other…Kevin Millwood for Johnson, Reyes, and Medlin or another lower pitching prospect. Probably look at Oliver Perez as well, and eventually sign him because we do need that lefty. On the power bat, I’d say a trade for Dye or Ordonez. All of this would give a rotation- if Smoltz can come back as a starter- Smoltz/Millwood/Jurrjens/Vazquez/Perez. plus a solid power bat in between Chipper and McCann.

By thad

December 12, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this

we dont have a choice. we are in danger of being cellar dwellers if we dont get another starter. we have 2 starters right now. why dont we take all this money and sign garland, penny, looper, sheets, etc. get 2 or 3 of them. then you at least have a rotation. come on wrenn give us something to watch this spring!!!

By Stephens

December 12, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this

The Braves need to stop attempting to win immediately and make more prudent decisions. Instead of investing more money than necessary and trading draft picks to sign them, the Braves should do what got them to their pinnacle in the 90’s. Draft good players from the U.S. and Canada and put money into scouting the islands. Then, develop them. And when the Braves are close to competing for the division title, sign good free agents like they once did with Pendleton and Maddux. Wren needs to quit thinking about overspending in order to save mediocrity, it only draws out the rebuilding process that much longer

By Greg

December 12, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

Forget Burnett - trade for Peavy if you want to get in the playoffs - he’s cheaper and he will win more games.

By Greg

December 12, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

Wren can’t make a deal.

By ughh

December 12, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

raffy*

By Bravo Man

December 12, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

Well this a series of unfortunate events we have here, but hey what can you do? I really wanted Burnett and I thought he would have been a nice fit to lead our piching staff for several years. Unfortunately the evil empire of the New YorkYankees picked this year(in times of economic struggle) to go on a ridiculous spending spree. It happens my friends but what do u do when you fall off the horse…you get up and find an alternative ace. If I were Frank Wren, and by the way I think he’s handle this whole event very well, it just didn’t happen. But if I were him I’d see if there were any chance of dealing for Jake Peavy. If Wren wasn’t up for dealing Yunel I’d understand. Then I’d give Sheets a call. He does have a past history of injury sure, but lets face it when healthy he’s a stud. I wouldn’t give him more than 2 years tho. I’d also pick up another starter for insurance in case Sheets goes down. Jon Garland or Randy Wolf perhalps? Now has for a right-handed outfielder with pop…Burrell perhalps? Or find an alternative through trade. Whatever happens I trust in Frank Wren and can’t wait to see my 09 Braves in Spring Training. GO BRAVES!

By Jeff Tharpe

December 12, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

By BravesFan1994

December 12, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

Frank Wren is the worst GM in the history of the Atlanta Braves. He does not do what is needed to be done. Also, what is this Vazquez deal, he trades a player who is SHINING LIKE A STAR in the AFL for Vazquez, I mean Tyler Flowers could have been developed into a first baseman. Also, the Texeira deal, the Braves got NOTHING. Kotchman is not good at all. The best deal Wren has made is signing Tom Glavine and that was not a good deal. The fact that Vazques could be our oppening day starter sickens me. Again, the Padres asked about Tyler Flowers and Wren said he would not trade Flowers for Peavy, but he will trade him for Vazquez. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wren needed to take the intiative on Burnett, his first offer should have been a 5 year deal. I do not care about Burnetts past, the fact is Burnett is better than our whole pitching staff injury or not. Also, if Wren allows John Smoltz to sign somewhere else i will boycott the Braves FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Robert

December 12, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

$40 million dollars to spend and what do we have to show for it?

Maybe we will have $80 million next year?

I must say, though, that I am not too saddened by AJ going to NY. I am sure that they will consider his 10-12 wins worth it.

By Dirt dobber

December 12, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this

Well I’ll be sheets we din’t get to sign Burnett.

By Nick

December 12, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

For Frank Wren and the Braves organization, this may be a blessing in disguise. I will be shocked if Burnett makes it through this deal healthy and lives up to the contract. I would revisit the Peavy deal and if the Pads demands are still outrageous then I’d be content to let 09 be a rebuilding year. We’ve got to develop our young talent.

By hugh

December 12, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

That’s it!!I’ve convinced all the folks in my section to NOT renew their season tix.Mr. Wren—-you have failed. We have ONLY no-name AA players—-Chipper whines(4 nites a week)—McCann only real big-leaguer. The Braves are cellar-dwelling losers—and worst of all—-collossally BORING. Mr. Wren—you simply have no product to sell.

By Tim

December 12, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this

Best case scenario for the Braves right now: 1.) Trade for the Royal’s Zack Greinke, but only if it doesn’t involve Escobar. 2.) Sign Ben Sheets to a 3yr deal as long as it’s for less than $40 million. 3.) Then with whatever money is left, try to resign Smoltz, Norton, and Ohman in that order. 4.) If Guillen isn’t involved in the Greinke deal, go out and sign one of the lower tier corner outfielders like Juan Rivera. Now if the price for Bradley is reasonable and Wren can fit him in the budget, then I would definitely go with him instead.

Now you can’t tell me that isn’t realistic or possible. The only one that might be a little tough to actually happen would be acquiring Greinke without including escobar.

By Tim

December 12, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this

Best case scenario for the Braves right now: 1.) Trade for the Royal’s Zack Greinke, but only if it doesn’t involve Escobar. 2.) Sign Ben Sheets to a 3yr deal as long as it’s for less than $40 million. 3.) Then with whatever money is left, try to resign Smoltz, Norton, and Ohman in that order. 4.) If Guillen isn’t involved in the Greinke deal, go out and sign one of the lower tier corner outfielders like Juan Rivera. Now if the price for Bradley is reasonable and Wren can fit him in the budget, then I would definitely go with him instead.

Now you can’t tell me that isn’t realistic or possible. The only one that might be a little tough to actually happen would be acquiring Greinke without including escobar.

By Tim

December 12, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this

Best case scenario for the Braves right now: 1.) Trade for the Royal’s Zack Greinke, but only if it doesn’t involve Escobar. 2.) Sign Ben Sheets to a 3yr deal as long as it’s for less than $40 million. 3.) Then with whatever money is left, try to resign Smoltz, Norton, and Ohman in that order. 4.) If Guillen isn’t involved in the Greinke deal, go out and sign one of the lower tier corner outfielders like Juan Rivera. Now if the price for Bradley is reasonable and Wren can fit him in the budget, then I would definitely go with him instead.

Now you can’t tell me that isn’t realistic or possible. The only one that might be a little tough to actually happen would be acquiring Greinke without including escobar.

By Jeff S

December 12, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this

Welcome to the new world of Braves baseball. Every time Haley’s comet comes around we might get lucky and get to the palyoffs. No more every year, every other year or even a decade. I’m done!!

By BravesFan1994

December 12, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

I think that Frank Wren is secretly working for the Mets and Phillies.

By Apollo

December 12, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

—-“”“”“By hugh

December 12, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

That’s it!!I’ve convinced all the folks in my section to NOT renew their season tix.Mr. Wren—-you have failed. We have ONLY no-name AA players—-Chipper whines(4 nites a week)—McCann only real big-leaguer. The Braves are cellar-dwelling losers—and worst of all—-collossally BORING. Mr. Wren—you simply have no product to sell”“”—

You my friend, do not know what it means to be a fan. Being a fan does not mean being spoiled by whatever you want whenever you want it. Being a fan does not mean pulling your support of the team away because of 3 years without the playoffs. Big deal. The Pirates haven’t been in 15 years. What do you think it helps to stop showing up at games? It doesn’t help a thing, but you wouldn’t care because you’re not a true fan. You’re a fairwheather viewer. A true fan sticks with it no matter what.

By big o

December 12, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this

don’t mortgage our future. let’s take our lumps. we won 14 straight years. this will make us appreciate the good times when they return. I say get Sheets on the cheap if available. Put Hansen in the rotation now to gain experience. Look for 2010 with a healthy hudson, sheets, JJ, vasquez and hansen. Smoltz will probaly still be around too. Yunel is a star ^&%$# peavy

By Granddawg

December 12, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this

Too much money for someone with his health history. Next!

By Jay

December 12, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

So this is how a once-proud franchise ends…

By jtb

December 12, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

BravesFan1994

DOB has said many many times that the Padres were never interested i Tyler Flowers. They wanted Tommy Hanson and the Braves refused to trade him. DOB asked Wren and Kevin Towers both and they both said that the Padres were not interested in Tyler Flowers. So what exactly leads you to believe that Wren said he would not trade Flowers for Peavy?

By Manny

December 12, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

Sign Manny now!!

By wesley

December 12, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

i think we should try and sign mike tyson. no one would want to stand in the box with him on the mound. plus he’d be great for bench clearing brawls.

By help!!!

December 12, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

fighting Nats for last place!!!!!!!!!!

By Bo

December 12, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

Don’t blame Wren he offered AJ Around 80 million, what the he!! do you expect. AJ wanted the Yankees and they had the money. Get over it, Wren is working his a* off. Give the man credit.

By Thundersticks

December 12, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

Wren did everything he could reasonably do short of giving up Hanson and Heyward trying to get Peavy, then went as far as he could reasonably go fiscally on Burnett. Its way too early in the offseason to label it a failure. Before he even left Vegas Wren told DOB he had a couple of other things working and now Peavy may be an option again without giving up Escobar.

I commend Wren for making prudent decisions - unlike another franchise we know.

By gordon

December 12, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Does anybody realize that acrophobia just cost the Bravos an ace?

By JEB

December 12, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

What is it with all this Wren bashing?? It’s not that he isn’t working and trying to get something done!!

It was Towers - not Wren who did not get the Peavy trade done. We all would have been PO’d if he had given 6 players for one in that trade (THAT would have been a bad GM deal for Wren).

He matched dollar to dollar to Burnett, HE chose the Yankees (I’m actually surprised the Braves offered that much!)

Some of ya’ll need to just get some Christmas spirit for a few days and get off this anger stuff. The winter is not over - the season nor the games have started yet - there are still plenty of good players out there - still great trades that can be made, and last of all (as the Ray’s proved this year) you STILL have to play the games and you never know how that is going to work out. Last year the Braves were favored to go to the WS, you see how that turned out!

By mb

December 12, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

Great News Braves Fans we did NOT get another Hampton deal. Thanks Yankees for over paying for Burnett.

Now Let’s build a stong baseball team for the future and forget about signing often injured and old players for too much money.

Wren go put some smart deals together and let’s get competitive. The Phillies and the Mets are way ahead of us right now.

By Thundersticks

December 12, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

*By Manny

December 12, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

Sign Manny now!!*

I agree!!!

Sign Manny to 2/45 with a team option for a third year at $25 mil or a $5 mil buyout.

Trade for Peavy, Greinke, Cain, or whatever #1/#2/#3 SP you can reasonably get.

Sign Smoltzie, Ohman, and Norton.

Rotation: Smoltz, SP via trade, JJJ, Vazquez, Morton/Reyes/Hanson.

Lineup: Anderson/Blanco/Schafer, Escobar, Chipper, Manny, McCann, Frenchy, Kotchman, KJ.

These moves should all fit within our budget.

By rhays

December 12, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

get peavy just dont give up the untouchables, (harrison and that crew) . you could give up any player or players you want to on the major league roster, except for big mack. please dont trade the future, the “next wave”. but there are no sacred cows on this team. the braves have to get beter and it’s going to take some innovation to get there. go after roy halladay if it is possible. desperate measures for desperate times.

By rhays

December 12, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

i’ve never disliked the yankees this much. it’s just not fair. i know it’s business, but it’s just not right. baseball is sinking to new lows, on the major league level.

By ecoop

December 12, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

go back in time and let frank wren go to the royals and keep dayton moore because clearly he’s a better GM.

Burnett is the next carl pavano and will choke in Ny along with Sabathia.

By Apollo

December 12, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

——get peavy just dont give up the untouchables, (harrison and that crew)—— -rhays

You do realize that we traded Herrison a year and a half ago to the Rangers, right?

By BravesFan1994

December 12, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

The padres asked about Flowers to see if they could get him and Wren said no. I do not even care about that even more, the main thing is that Wren traded Flowers for Vazquez. I do not understand that.

By Parker

December 12, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

I wanted Burnnett, but his injury-prone career would probably make him the next Mike Hampton (with Atlanta’s luck with pitching injuries recently). I still think we should go after Peavy because of his age. He is so much younger and dominant, no is making legitament offers for him so I believe he will end up a Brave because the Padres are despritely trying to get rid of his fat (but well deserved) pay check.

By Mike R

December 12, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

This is the best news the Braves have gotten in a longggg time. Burnette will spend time on the DL next season and will not be an effective pitcher for the life of the contract. If we do go after Sheets, only offer 2 years. If that is not enough, let him go to some foolish team. Sign Smoltz and Glavine. Make a lesser offer for Peavy. If the Padres will not take it, let them go somewhere else. Worse case, go with the pitching we have; Vazquez, Jurrjens, Morton, Reyes, Hanson, Smoltz, and Glavine will get us 3rd place. That is where we would have finished with Burnette on the DL.

By wreckmaniac

December 12, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

A great day ! Burnett is a second line starter and I would like to see the Yankees loaded up with all the obligations they can get. If Burnett had been patient he could have signed for at least $125 mill. I would like to see the Yanks have at least 100 players on their payroll. This makes no difference. The Yanks will not win a world series regardless of who they sign and regardless of what they spend. They are losers.

By wreckmaniac

December 12, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

Forget next year and the year after. Develope the farm system !!!

By Eric

December 12, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

This maybe one of the greatest days in recent Braves history. The Yankees helped us avoid over paying for an injury proned starter, huge on potential, but short on resume. Let’s go a find some serviceable arms and get some offense in here.

By thad

December 12, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

bottom line is this: the braves came into next to last place last season.
what have we done to change this team? yes, we still have time. but there must be changes soon. * we need at least 2 more major league pitchers. * we need a power hitting outfielder. *we need a first baseman. did cotchman get a hit for the braves??? we need to start looking to the future at third. chipper isnt always going to be there.

By Dgren

December 12, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

DOB, I think once the initial disappointment of Burnnett signing w/ the evil empire wears off, that it may turn out to be a blessing. Burnnett will fold under the media pressure in the Big Apple and not have a year worth his salary until the last year of his contract.

Who knows after getting put off by the Cubs maybe the Braves offer is looking a lot better to Mr. Towers. If not, we can still sign Smoltz and have money to get another pitcher for depth and a corner outfielder without giving up any young talent. Not a bad position to be in with some great young talent percolating up through the minors over the next couple of years

All you Wren bashers chill out, a lot can happen between now and spring training.

By mbunch181

December 12, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

I’m just a depressed as everyone; however, this could be a good thing – maybe. The biggest problem I see coming from this isn’t loosing Burnett’s so-called talent; instead I think it is the image hit we (the braves and the city of Atlanta) took in Vegas. Everyone, including Wren was well aware of Burnett’s record of being on the DL and more importantly only playing (it seems) up to his ability when a contract year was looming. However – we went after this guy. By making it known to baseball GMs, agents, players and the like that we were interesting in signing this guy, the reputation of the team was put on the proverbial “line.” Wren lost! So the braves lost not only in the Burnett deal, they lost in future deals as I see it because we got rejected. Rejection not only stings – it creates perceptions. Fans aren’t the only people who watch ESPN and read the paper – players absorb this media crap too. And more than us, they take cues on where to sign, play, et al the same way Buffett reads the WS Journal before buying up some companies’ stock. Our stock is down; so you know all the GMs as they were flying back home from Vegas had to be talking about the new sad state of affairs in Bravo land. I mean – what has become of the braves? First they made it known Peavy was on the radar – (rejected in some respect); then the Burnett deal – (clearly rejected). If I was a player I wouldn’t want to pay for this team right now. It is kind of like the person who is dumped by the popular kid in high school, a stink surrounds him or her, regardless of what they did. Nobody as of now wants to play for us – simply put: we are the smelly kid at camp. Ok enough of the stupid analogies. Good news, nobody wanted to play for us before 1991 either. So, we’ve come full circle. Except it! I’m not smart enough to figure out exactly what we should do from here, but something tells me the old road map used by Cox and Schuerholz should be a good start. I’ve been reading this lately and it is smart – “build from within.” Stop pretending we aren’t in a rebuilding area – because we are. Lastly, let’s make the changes that all teams during a rebuilding era make – get rid of the bad debut! Burnett wasn’t the answer because the answer isn’t going to come from some 30-something- injury prone – nipple ring wearing – scared to be a frontline starter – dude. The answer is going to come from kids like Hanson. Sadly I don’t think Wren realizes this.
P.S. Pray that Blank gets a chance to buy this team.

By EP

December 12, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

Simple move.. get rid of Hanson and Escobar to get Peavy. The guy is a legit ace and it wouldn’t be a 1 or 2 year rental. Prospects are overvalued and most of them flame out and do nothing. The guys you expect nothing from are the guys who make it. The contract isn’t too horrible - cheaper than Burnett!

By Keeping It Real

December 12, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

Why do the Braves always chase pitchers beyond their prime with arms ready to go bad? Thank goodness for the Yankees. Please don’t sign Sheets or Peevy.

By Dixie Dawg

December 12, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

No No No No No, still go after Peavey, but Escobar absolutely has to be taken off the table. Towers has his back up against the wall more than Wren does. Giving up Escobar would be disastrous. All this over a pitcher who doesn’t even want to come here. Keep Escobar, but throw in someone else. I’ll be expectingto get balsted over this one, but oh well.

By Curious

December 12, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

We know about Esco- we’ve seen him play, so there’s some experience there to judge his abilioty/value, etc…Hanson- we’ve only heard about how well he’s done in the MINORS…would giving him or Esco up to get peavy (only 27) and his stats are definitely ace quality. I don;t want to see us give up the farm either, but if we gave up Hanson or esco - would that really be giving up the farm? playing devil’s advocate here you have to give something to get something in reutrn - right? Is POTENTIAL that much more valuable than experience and stats? You’d have JP under control for more than just a rental…is someone like Hanson or Esco really untouchable? Argue the other side for me —-All that said I do like Wren’s stance that has kept us from overpaying and put us in a more solid position to work with..give FW a chance to actually DO his job bloggers. Go Braves

By Boog

December 12, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

MLB is a joke… everyone is a farm system for the damn yankees. As soon as an organization develops a player the yankees buy him. Until MLB gets a salary cap I am not interested anymore. Cities like Milwaukee, Pittsburgh Kansas City and now Atlanta… have no reason to support MLB until they institute a salary cap. I know Tampa Bay and the Phillies did well this year but for the most part it’s a Yankees, Red Sox, Mets and Cubs world.

By Pettite Fan

December 12, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

Short note—-I like the fact that pettite is PO’d at Yankess for the way they treated him recently…I think he’d be worth a flyer on a 1 or 2 max year deal…more than Sheets…Ap has some serious heart…if he had been Sheets in the playoff atmosphere, he would brought back the bloody sock sequel to pitch in the big games…

By Dixie Dawg

December 12, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

We Need New Owners We Need New Owners We Need New Owners We Need New Owners We Need New Owners We Need New Owners We Need New Owners We Need New Owners We Need New Owners We Need New Owners We Need New Owners We Need New Owners We Need New Owners We Need New Owners We Need New Owners We Need New Owners!!!!

By Dixie Dawg

December 12, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

thats “blasted” not “balsted” ooops

By Dixie Dawg

December 12, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

The Yankees are the anti Christ of baseball. They’ll buy up the whole damn league! I hate the f’ing Yankees. Time for a salary cap. That would fix the Yankees from buying up the competition.

By gayle

December 12, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

Lots of smart bloggers here tonight. Like stephens747 and big o.

And those of you jamming on Wren and threatening to cancel your season tix (as if you realy had them) get over it!!

This is not a playoff caliber team! If you think I’m wrong, then tell me why the free agents don’t want to come here?

Adding Burnett or Sheets or Peavy or Sabbathia will not change the outcome. Making a long term deal for a pitcher will be begging for another Hampton just after we got rid of the last one.

I’ve been saying this for years - the team needs to drop this band-aid approach, make some tough decisions and start to rebuild. Every year that this team refusses to accept reality is one more year that we are not rebuilding.

Given what the Mets and Phillies have done - the Braves are not going to compete in 2009.

And all this talk about starting pitching for the Braves, who the heck is supposed to be the closer???

Oh, and one last thing - just like Mike Holmgren got a farewell year for the Seahawks so everyone could say goodbye, why not make 2009 truly the start of a rebuild by making this BC’s farewell year?

By rhays

December 12, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

sorry apollo, i meant HANSON.

By DOB Fan

December 12, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

Dixie Dawg did DOB kick you off his blog? Did you cause it to crash?

By Salty Dawg

December 12, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

I have to say, a lot of the people who post here are obviously dedicated fans who have a lot of emotion when it comes to the Braves. But there are a lot of morons here too who are just spouting out whatever spew comes to mind. Get new owners! Why? Liberty has increased the team’s payroll unlike the previous owner. Whether the team is owned by a filthy rich individual or a corporation that answers to shareholders, no owner is going to intentionally make financially unwise decisions regarding an investment. Sure, they Yankees can do it. They are the largest market in baseball. They have a new billion dollar + stadium that is partially paid for by the government (read: taxpayer money). Atlanta simply doesn’t have the market to ever compete financially with the Yankees or Redsox or Cubs, regardless of ownership.

Fire Wren! Why? Did he not make an effort to sign the second best FA on the market, the first of which was easily out of our budget? Did he not try to trade for the best option on the trade market? The fact is that Wren made a diligent effort to get his top two targets. He walked away from Peavy when it became obvious that he was essentially bidding against himself and Towers kept coming back asking for more. If Towers wanted much more in return than Peavy is worth, should Wren have made the deal? No. He was a “finalist” in the bidding for AJ and made an offer pretty much even with what the Yankees were offering. If you believe Burnett, the decision came down to proximity to his home. Should Wren have moved the club to MD? Should he have come over the top with a ridiculous bid that was far more than Burnett was worth? No. How exactly could Wren have played his hand any better than he did?

The Braves are doomed to last in the division Why? Does the team with the best players always win? What about the Rays? What about the Phillies? The Phillies basically had one great pitcher and some average pitchers. It is all about chemistry and synergy. The fact is that the majority of the Braves trouble last year was the direct result of a hell of a lot of injuries to the pitching staff, which in turn placed a lot of strain on the bullpen, which in turn led to a lot of close and/or late inning losses. Do we have the best team in the division? Of course not. But that can’t be fixed overnight without a Yankees style spending spree, which unfortunately on the Yankees can afford. I would contend that if Wren can’t pick up a couple of top notch pitchers then we are better off holding on to our up and coming stars for another season and seeing how things play out. It’s not checkers, it’s chess. Plan for the long term. It would be nice to win the division next season, but not at the expense of having an empty farm for the next several years. We have a lot of young talent and if they aren’t able to contribute by next season, maybe the FA/trade market will be more buyer friendly next year.

So calm down.

By jenkins

December 12, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

Agree Gayle. When was the last time the Braves had a Ace Closer? Not since Smoltz, right? How many games did we lose last year by 1 run=33 or more. Are the Braves depending on closer that just had arm surgery? You see the Braves try to patch everything instead of fixing it. What starting pitcher wants to pitch for a team with no Ace closer? No hitters= 25 homers from OF with 223 hitter in RF and no one in cf and lf but fill in players. A mgr thats past his prime. We need to rebuild with younger players, new hitting coach and pitching coach and New Mgr with some fire in his belly.I don’t mean getting throw out of games. Ever time I see BC I want to throw up.

By semiballcoach

December 12, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

what is wren supposed to do? he was in on burnett until the end and towers is an inept gm who blew trades with the braves and the cubs….the braves don’t have enough money to waste 90 million dollars on pitchers who might break down…might as well go young and by the time heyward and scheafer are ready the arms will be there

By todd

December 12, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

We dodged another bullet with the Yanks signing Burnett. Wren just got lucky again. He should be very thankful that Hampton and Burnett saved him from himself Why would anyone withany sense throw money at pitchers with bad arms? Thats like signing a running back with bad knees to a long term deal - not smart!!!!

By Salty Dawg

December 12, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

I hate to wish someone ill will, but I really hope that both CC and AJ end up getting injured or tanking a la Barry Zito or Mike Hampton. Until teams realize that it just isn’t worth giving guys these long-terms bloated contracts we are going to see more and more of them.

I love the Braves, but baseball (and really all pro sports) makes me sick. They say that pro sports are recession proof. Well I say that as long as ticket prices keep going up, my frequency of attendance will keep going down. The single biggest driver for rising ticket prices is these increasingly large salaries. Hasn’t anyone noticed that the average annual salary increase in baseball rises at about 10% per year? What the hell is that all about? At this rate, by the year 2015 it will cost a family of four $500 to go to a ball game. It really is ridiculous. While I disagree with some of the comments about dumping season tickets because of the personnel situation, I certainly would applaud it in an effort to boycott the rampant inflation in pro sports.

By Dixie Dawg

December 12, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

No, DOB fan I was not kicked off the blog. I havent done anything other than express my opinion and I havent spewed racial slants.

By tyrone

December 12, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

IM SOOO GLAD AJ DIDNT COME TO ATLANTA.I DONT THINK HIM OR CC WILL BE DOMINATE NEXT YEAR IN THE BRONX…MR WREN NEEDS TO GO AND GET PEAVY!!! WHATEVER IT TAKES BESIDES GIVING UP JASON HEYWARD OR TOMMY HANSON

By TNJeff

December 12, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

What now?

Say goodbye to the lock on 3rd place finishes & prepare for the cellar-dweller title!

This team is gonna stink for a while (from GM down to whatever pathetic Utility catcher Cox falls in love with & keeps on the team)

By Dixie Dawg

December 12, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

Keep in mind when Ted finally loosened up his wallet, the Braves got good. I love the Braves and all, but there is something that is not right about Liberty Media. I can’t believe some people are so short-sighted in not seeing this. Not trying to stir up anything, but just look at it from a different perspective.

By Dixie Dawg

December 12, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this

This should be a sure sign from God that it is time to rebuild.

By Cal

December 12, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

Build from within. It’s the only way to compete so long as baseball continues with its current business model.

The Yankees, Red Sox, and Mets get to play with Monopoly money because of the anti-trust exemption afforded baseball. Unless MLB adopts some sort of salary cap like the NFL or NBA have, that’s the way it’s always going to be (they have huge population markets and revenue generating television networks that other teams can’t match).

If the NFL were run the same way, the Giants and Jets would be farm teams for the Cowboys and Redskins - the two unparalleled revenue generators in that league. Wouldn’t the NY fans love that?

I love hearing the NY fans argue that if other teams were run as well as the Yankees, they could pay the same salaries. Yeah, they’d be singing a different tune if Eli jumped to the Skins, just because they can pay him obscene money.

By DOB Fan

December 12, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this

TNJeff, what about RF he loves?

Dixie Dawg you cool. Just remember we’re all fans that love the Braves.

**Frank Wren is working his a@@ off to get a deal done. FW offered AJ up to 80 million give the man a break, he’s trying.

By Dixie Dawg

December 12, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

DOB Fan, thanks, my brotha.

By Dixie Dawg

December 12, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this

Who knows…maybe we all might be pleasantly surprised by the Braves next season. This same time last year nobody would have ever imagined the Falcons would be sitting at 8-5 and in the play off hunt. Only time will tell.

By mr baseball

December 13, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this

The sky is falling!!!! The sky is falling!!!! We didn’t trade for Peavy. We didn’t sign Burnett. All is lost!!! All is lost!!!

Get a grip, people. The cost for Peavy was too high in terms of the talent the Braves would have to give up. The cost for Burnett was way too high financially considering his history of injuries.

So far this off-season, the Braves had added a quality, healthy veteran starting pitcher who should be good for around 15 wins next year. All they gave up to get him was a promising young power hitter who hasn’t played above Class A and would not make it to Atlanta for a few years, if ever.

The idea that you have to have an “ace” at the top of your rotation and spend millions on your other starters is absolute crap. The ‘08 Phillies had little behind Hamels. The ‘07 Rockies had nothing behind a No. 1 starter who would be a 3 or 4 or a lot of teams. The ‘06 Cards had next to nothing behind Carpenter. THEY ALL MADE IT TO THE WORLD SERIES AND 2 OF THEM WON.

Tampa made it to the World Series this year with a starting rotation that cost a fraction of what the Braves will pay Vazquez next year. They don’t need to be spending $15 million a year on a pitcher who will never make it to the end of his contract healthy (Mike Hampton, Part II) and don’t need to trade their starting SS and several top prospects for a talented but risky top-of-the-rotation starter.

Give the young arms a shot. Tampa did and look what happened.

2 suggestions. Sign Adam Dunn. He strikes out a lot, he is a .250 hitter at best and is a defensive liability. He also hits 40 HRs EVERY YEAR. He drives in 100 runs. EVERY YEAR. He walks over 100 times. EVERY YEAR. He will give the team a cleanup hitter who will force opponents to pitch to Chipper, who is looking at breaking the franchise record for walks, even if he misses 40 games.

Trade Kotchman, who is not a good fit for this power-lacking offense to Seattle as part of a package for Erik Bedard, who is available, affordable and is in the same ballpark with Burnett.

If possible, add a veteran bat to play LF, but with Dunn batting cleanup, the Braves could probably get by with what they have there if necessary.

The only other thing the Braves would need is a 2nd front line lefty reliever to go with Gonzalez against the Mets and especially the Phillies.

The above suggesttions are reasonable and affordable, therefore do not expect any of them to be acted upon. Do expect the Braves to scour the non-tendered list for the cheapest bodies available.

By DOB Fan

December 13, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this

Dixie Dawg, Yes its time to rebuild. What would you do about Smoltz , Glavine and Chip ? Would you try to sign Smoltz & Glavine? Ask chip if he wants to be traded or go though rebuilding.

By richbrave

December 13, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

The closer we get to whiffing in signing that second top pitcher WREN spoke of, the more pressure is exerted on the bull-pen to perform heroically. Sign OHMAN. He’s great, and you can’t have enough good pitching. He’s in house and DOES want to remain a BRAVE. So solidify one area which will become more significant with each major missed opportunity in the starting rotation.

Lets see - not injured or recouperating from injury in the starting rotation we currently have - JJ, VASQUEZ, CAMPILLO, MORTON, REYES. Looks like “SPAHN and SAIN and pray for rain” except neither JJ, nor VASQUEZ can be considered comparable talents to the famed BRAVES duo of yesteryear. Ouch.

CAMPILLO will have to sharpen his wiles to stick in the majors this year. The opposing hitters have his “junk” figured out.

MORTON will develop into a reliable #4 guy if allowed to continue his steady progress through ‘09, but will be a thin reed to lean on throughout the coming season.

REYES physically has it all, but his 10-cent head is killing him. Will he ever figure out how to pitch instead of just throw.? He seems to unlearn pointers faster than he incorporates them into his pitching.

Besides the known, we have SMOLTZ and GLAVINE. In JOHN’s case, the BRAVES must wait until he can determine if he will be able to start which would be my preference and my fervent hope.

With GLAVINE, the surgery better have replaced the old “soup-bone” with a bionic arm, because his electric abilities are gone. A miraculous resurrection would be needed in his case to even consider resigning him.

TOMMY “the SAVIOR” HANSON hasn’t even had a whiff of ML hitters yet, but he will be the salvation of the franchise. Pu-ule-e-eze. Get up off the guy. If he becomes a #5 at THIS POINT he’ll be doing good for himself.

HUDSON - gone until late ‘09, and probably not himself until JUNE of 2010.

So I’d say WREN was right. We need a top of the rotation guy. PEAVY - probably not. LOWE - no because of his agent. SHEETS - a HAMPTON clone - injury after injury. And then you’re into the second tier of pitchers on the market, GARLAND et. al. This is not making me feel any better. Pass the Bicarbonate of Soda.

In the pen we have GONZO, recovering SORIANO, recovering MOYLAN(probably not effective unti near mid-season), ACOSTA, BENNETT(whom I like), and two newbies, one by trade and the other rescued from the waiver wire.!!!! These two will not replace OHMAN in my book.

HITTING. Lead-off, #2 hitter, and HR smasher all needed. Whew.!!!! WREN will be the “MIRICLE WORKER” if he pulls this off in ‘09. At this point, I think he should do what he can and point toward 2010. Sign NORTON for bench-strength. He was great last year. Shouldn’t let him walk.

By Philliesuk

December 13, 2008 12:36 AM | Link to this

I’m not sad that we don’t have AJ Burnett; the Yankees obviously overpaid for him. That being said, he would have strengthened our team. But what saddens me is that it is just one more reminder that the Braves are now just another team. They are no longer America’s Team, since TBS decided that money is more important than tradition and integrity.

This team should focus on getting Manny Ramirez, but that will never happen. He is exactly what we need. Unfortunately, he doesn’t have the right personality. I admit that he is a bit of a jerk, but there are far worse in sports. And who knows, maybe he would fit in great. Look at Sheffield; he was actually well-liked on our team.

You know that the Braves aren’t a great team when it’s a big story that we aren’t going to sign Chuck James.

You know what would be amazing (and a fantasy that will never happen)? Sign Manny Ramirez. Trade for Peavy. Sign Furcal. Can you imagine how much better our team would be?

By PMC

December 13, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this

Wren is not doing that bad a job on the whole, he came in at the tail end of one of the longest playoff runs in history. The yanks MAJORLY overpaid for Burnett. Good for him. Have a nice Christmas when you win 12 games next year.

We need a top of the rotation guy. But the reality is, The really good ones, you get from within unless you are willing to overpay the hell out of them and watch them catch fire one by one like the yankees.

What we really need are Starting pitchers that can keep our team in games and get into the 7th. Then we need at least one more stick in the outfield capable of driving in runs and playing a little defense. I could care less about homers. Just hit it in the gaps with men in scoring position.

They are a little better than we are giving them credit for because of some injuries and slumps last year.

I’m not saying run out and buy playoff tickets but all is not lost just because AJ Burnett went to the Yankees. He’s not in the same hemisphere as Jake Peavy who is the only guy out there who would make the difference they really want.

By Dixie Dawg

December 13, 2008 12:55 AM | Link to this

DOB Fan, Here’s is my turn at “arm chair” GM…I would definately re-sign Smoltz, that way, the younger pitchers could have sort of a mentor. I would probably let Glavine go. He really hasn’t pitched that well for us since he’s returned. I’d keep Chipper for another year, and pray pray pray that he stays healthy enough to put up another year like he did last year. Those are just some suggestions….whadya think?

By stamper

December 13, 2008 12:56 AM | Link to this

sweet… Garland and Wolf are the remaining picks on the free agent front. i’m psyched .

By stamper

December 13, 2008 1:13 AM | Link to this

ok, i get it… Sheets is a ‘injury risk’ but he’s also an ace… and when healthy is just as intimidating as any of the other front end pitchers out there. we need to make a move for him. otherwise, our opening day starter is Javier.

Sheets is our last option. … one that doesn’t involve trading away more of our future.

By Ron_Paul

December 13, 2008 1:15 AM | Link to this

I say:

1) You have to go get Peavy…no one left, which means…

2) You sign Furcal to play SS, because Yunel is probably gone.

The rest will take care of itself…I hope.

By Desmond TuTu

December 13, 2008 1:17 AM | Link to this

What we must do IMMEDIATELY—Get 50,000 Braves FANaticS together with a 2,000 admission price to attend a benefit for Smoltzie at Turner Field. That is a cool 100,000,000 for Smoltzie and should help make up for those nearly 20 years he has gone unappreciated in Atlanta. The 100 Million will help insure that neither he nor wife, nor children, nor grandchildren, nor great grandchildren, nor great great grandchildren, nor great great great grandchildren will ever have to work. This way poor Smoltzie will not have to be humiliated by trying to pawn off his abilities in other cities. C’mon, we can make this happen. Of course that “camel fitting through the eye of a needle” reference became more complicated, but I’m sure Smoltzie will give most of it away to rectify the obvious discrepency.

By James

December 13, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this

I am glad the Yankees signed Burnett. He is not an ace and never has been an ace. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a 2nd or 3rd starter kind of guy but I would never be comfortable having him anchor the starting rotation. I just hope Frank Wren doesnt get desperate and sign some other non ace pitcher and refer to him as an ace.

By R Dizzle

December 13, 2008 1:36 AM | Link to this

F AJ, let him sign with the evil empire cause his wife is afraid to fly. so, let me think, an extra 2.5 mil over 5 years if worth the boos from skanks fans when he has an off day. why not come to our braves and be our ace, lead our team back to the playoffs, and once again make the rest of the NL East fear us. Guess it’s true that all players in MLB are out for that extra buck???

By Richt Raff

December 13, 2008 1:41 AM | Link to this

We have become South Carolina in the SEC East trying to compete with Florida and Georgia or maybe Illinois trying to compete with Ohio State and Penn State.

By safebet

December 13, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this

GRIENKE, GRIENKE, GRIENKE, GRIENKE

By cambone43

December 13, 2008 1:53 AM | Link to this

GO GET PEAVY!!!! or even SHEETS…or ANYONE! but i doubt frank wren will listen to those words. all he cares about is old pitchers and a very overrated jeff francouer. if he doesn’t pick up the slack, we’ll be even worse this season than last.

By ChopChamps95

December 13, 2008 2:02 AM | Link to this

It seems like all Wren does is sit on his a* and player solitare on the computer. Then when he’s not doing that he’s blowing hot air out of that a* about how he’s going to get this player and that one. You could fill a blimp with all the hot air that comes out of Frank Wren’s mouth. Honestly, if the only thing he did between now and spring training was get rid of that poor excuse of a right fielder jeff francouer, I’d be happy. Atleast, he would have done SOMETHING this offseason.

By Bryan

December 13, 2008 2:14 AM | Link to this

Braves Gotta do something to bulster their pitching. Burnett may not ahve been the answer to winning the East, but he atleast gave them a solid pitcher on the front end. now that he is gone we NEED to go after Sheets, or look at the Peavy trade again. Without signing a top pitcher, you can kiss another season good bye.

By scottbravesfan

December 13, 2008 2:47 AM | Link to this

Go after Lowe

By This Gets Old

December 13, 2008 3:23 AM | Link to this

I love how so many people write “get —— now!!!!!” How exactly does that work anyway?

I have a few questions.

If the Braves get Peavy (“giving up whoever we have to to get him!”) is that going to make Francoeur a better hitter in ‘09 than he was in ‘08? Is whomever out there in CF going to be a better player or even equal to the CF’s in our division?

Will Sheets make Kelly Johnson a less streaky hitter? Fix the gaping hole in LF? Keep Smoltz healthy? Prevent the Braves from having to go out and get midseason bullpen help as they do every year because we never keep the guys we traded prospects for last year? Get consistent offensive production from 1B?

Face it we were not a second place or even a third place team last year. The old Braves are dead. We’ve been putting off rebuilding forever. That’s what the Texiera trade was all about and look what it cost us.

The team is more that an ace pitcher away. Quicker they figure that out the quicker they’ll be back on top of the division. Rebuild the right way and start now, We should be trying to trade for young prospects. If you look at how we played against the Marlins last year and couldn’t see that then you’re blind.

By Ken Stallings

December 13, 2008 3:33 AM | Link to this

Here’s the reality. This is a single symptom of a far larger problem baseball has. The sport had a tough enough time surviving when a few teams each year knew they simply weren’t able to compete for the World Series — Kansas City Royals and Montreal Expos.

They pretty much knew they couldn’t compete. That was bad enough. But, since then this great idea of the luxury tax was expected to give these teams a better chance. It didn’t work!

The Yankees, Mets, and Red Sox have redefined the game in a far more perverted way than before. Now, despite moving the Expos to Washington (third time’s the charm, right?) not even the Nationals are on the stage any more.

Guess what? The Braves aren’t either! Atlanta is one of America’s largest cities, with a media center smaller than only New York City itself! And yet, Atlanta no longer attracts the best talent like it once did.

Make no mistake, there were a few reasons AJ Burnett opted for the Yankees, and none of them had the slightest thing to do about commut distances!

My God! The man could purchase a “temporary” home in metro Atlanta for a cool $5 million with his first week’s paycheck! Please! At least give a reason chumps might buy!

No the real reasons were these:

Steinbrenner wants a World Series this season. He’s tired of losing out to the Red Sox. He won’t tolerate another “failure.” If we offered Burnett $85 million for five, the Yanks would have offered $90 million for five.

Bud Selig needs to recognize the sport is dying. The NFL, NBA, and NHL could never survive if no team except a half dozen actually had a chance at the title. Worse yet, a half dozen were more than just likely to miss out entirely on the post season! But, that’s reality in the MLB. It must change.

Even Steinbrenner, beyond all his arrogance, must come to understand that baseball cannot endure this way. The sport needs a serious salary cap. It isn’t a case of Steinbrenner having to write a check to the league past a certain amount spent. He needs to be limited in how much he can spend under all circumstances.

Free agency is fine and the reserve clause of old was too much in that direction. But the pendulum has swung unsafely toward anarchy and it’s past time for real change or this sport simply won’t survive.

By Ken Stallings

December 13, 2008 3:40 AM | Link to this

OK, that’s what baseball needs to do. This is what the Braves need to do.

First, forget free agent pitchers, especially starting pitchers. The market’s always too lean and that game isn’t for the Braves any longer. Enjoy the success of picking away Greg Maddux from the Cubs. Bank those days in the museum because we won’t be seeing them again until Selig gets the stones to force a salary cap. And don’t hold your breaths on that one folks!

Second, sign Glavine and Smoltz right now. Yep, right now, both to one year contracts incentive laden. Yep, they might both get injured, but that’s not much more a gamble than is the suspect arm of Jake Peavy or even AJ Burnett.

Third, call up Tommy Hanson and let’s let the kid develop on the big stage. We did it to both Glavine and Smoltz and they both blossomed into HOF pitchers. A lot of folks think Hanson might also.

That gives us a nice five-man rotation and if all the arms hold up reasonably well, the Braves might actually make the playoffs.

Fourth, get a good hitting outfielder. Make that our sole free agent effort. The market is richer and we have a good shot there. Make it happen.

Fifth, realize the market has changed and there is no longer any option for teams except the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, to survive except by developing their farm system. Never again make another stupid short-term solution trade like rolling up the truck and unloading our prospects for a one player loan like Mark Texeria. The Braves cannot afford that, our farm system is too vital to our long term survival.

By where's my car?

December 13, 2008 5:05 AM | Link to this

Dude,

Go after Sheets. It’s not like we can’t afford him.

Do NOT trade escobar.

Sign Smotlz.

That’s a good rotations with Smotlz, JJ, Sheets, Vasquez, Hanson. Plus you still have Medlin that is right behind Hanson. Lots, and lots of K’s.

Go after LF. How about Nelson Cruz from Texas? Texas is talking about trading for Hermida for Saltalamacchia, so why not make it a 3 team deal and get Cruz?

By Greg

December 13, 2008 5:42 AM | Link to this

Wren has got to realize the days are over for players wanting to come to atlanta by free agency - you have to deal to get them to atlanta now.

By NikkiFree

December 13, 2008 6:19 AM | Link to this

Whew! We dodged a huge injury-prone bullet. Now focus on Peavy or Sheets.

By Elmer

December 13, 2008 6:37 AM | Link to this

Foget the “ace.” Go get a big bat outfielder like Dye.

By Bill

December 13, 2008 6:52 AM | Link to this

What a great day for the Braves, no Burnett. That would have been a huge mistake if he had signed. I would hate to have some of you as GM. FW has worked his butt off trying to improve this team. The Peavy deal, I can’t understand. I do understand why he would not include Flowers in that trade because he wanted to use him in another trade. I think they will find a couple of pitchers. I would not sign them for over 2 yrs. It’s time to turn the page and build within. Let the farm system mature a couple of years. If Smoltz and Glavine wants to walk, let them go. It’s time to stay away from these over 40 pitchers.

By semiballcoach

December 13, 2008 7:12 AM | Link to this

forget a big bat….go for pitching like early 90’s, but not randy wolf type pitching, unless it’s a one year deal..take lumps on ‘09 and have more money to spend next offseason when the yankees won’t be in the market for pitching…if smoltz signs somewhere else (why wouldn’t he for a chance to win this year?) test the market for chipper

By BravesFan79

December 13, 2008 7:44 AM | Link to this

Why Braves fans should be GLAD Ibenez went to the Phillies and not Atl!!

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=law_keith

By Tommy Hawk

December 13, 2008 7:51 AM | Link to this

I am thrilled that AJ Burnett went to the Yankees. He’ll throw his arm out trying to justify that salary and win no more than forty games over the life of the contract. Having said that, the Braves big acquisition is Javvy Vasquez? Do they not have the internet on Hank Aaron Way? Isn’t Vasquez a big-game punk and no more than a 12-12 pitcher (the high side)? Frank Wren is wruining our team!

By Larry Ortega

December 13, 2008 7:54 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe people are willing to let Smoltz and Chipper go. Ungrateful, disloyal idiots. Be about something!

Nobody matures on the big league mound anymore. It’s not like when Smoltz and Glavine came up and we sucked.

Smoltz will be back and will kick butt. One more starter and Peavy is no more durable than Burnett.

Yo Frank, Derek Lowe is the last piece of the puzzle. Ibanez would have been nice, but we’re too left-handed already. Sheets is also fragile.

By nyy

December 13, 2008 7:58 AM | Link to this

Well, it doesn’t look like the Braves will be getting back to the Series anytime soon. Guess the Yanks won’t get to “do-em” again.

By Woodman

December 13, 2008 7:59 AM | Link to this

Good GOD!!! Can we please sign somebody???!!!! This is embarrassing. We miss every big name free agent while the yanks sign Burnett AND Sabathia. What the hell is going on over there? I think it’s time to just admit that the Braves no longer consider it a priority to field a competitive team. CONGRATULATIONS ATLANTA WE ARE NOW THE KANSAS CITY ROYALS!!!!!

By fordcobra

December 13, 2008 8:01 AM | Link to this

I don’t think Peavy wants to come to Atlanta. He probably would have embrased the idea if the deal had been done right away. I don’t know what Wren can or can’t do, but if he doesn’t do something HUGE soon the fickle fans of Atlanta will be like Skip (rest his soul) used to say about the Giants years ago,Lot of Giant Fans disguised as empty seats. The Braves have trouble filling the seats when they are a winning team just keep this up and >>>>>>>>>>>>>

By DAP01

December 13, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this

Do nothing for the short term

Too many holes in this boat. Build for the future.

To compete we need: A right handed LF cleanup hitter - none on the FA market.

A ace pitcher - none available

If we get both of these we still will be a little short.

Work on 2010.

Good try anyway, Wren.

By 59bulldawg

December 13, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this

To be honest I was never sold on Burnett after having been burned by Hampton. For the money he wanted the Yanks can have him. He’ll probably be on the DL again soon and/or not have another decent year again until contract time 5 years down the road. I’d try again for Peavy if he wants to come and we don’t have to give up the entire farm system in return. Although I’m certainly not in favor of trading or signing players at any price, I’m also beginning to think that Wren just doesn’t have the same ability to get things done like JS used to. Or has the Atlanta name brand been so tarnished during the past 3-4 seasons that no one wants to come here? Man do we really need a hometown owner with a plan. Arthur all I want for Christmas is for you to buy the Braves!

By DAP01

December 13, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

I agree, Wren is giving a very good effort.

I would rather have a GM to walk away from the table than to keep renting Boras clients by giving away great prospects.

That is why the team is lacking so much after JS leaves.

By Marc

December 13, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this

From a financial perspective trading for Peavy is a bad idea. You have to give up Escobar which means you have to sign Furcal to probably a 11 mil a year deal for 4 years or so.

It was a better strategy to keep the cheap stud in Escobar and sign a FA. There’s still some good options out there that would all be a good bit cheaper than Burnett. Don’t forget Lower is still available.

I would make getting a bat my new number one priority and take a chance on a cheaper and possible steal pitcher off the FA market. Of course we also don’t know what other pitcher trades Wren has in the works.

By Corey

December 13, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

AJ going to the Yankees is a blessing. I have heard so much about how we need a horse, someone who can pitch 200 innings, etc. Burnett has only eclipsed 200 innings 3 of 10 seasons. That’s no horse.

In comparison: Derek Lowe (5 of the last 7 seasons), Ben Sheets (3 of 8 seasons, plus 198.1 last year), Jake Peavy (3 of 7 seasons). I’ll be happier with any of these three guys.

The Braves need to focus on pitching again. We should trade Yunel for Peavy, sign Furcal, move Kelly back to left, give Prado the job at second, and sign Sheets.

I’ve heard we have 40-50 million to spend, not counting re-signing Smoltz, etc.

1) Javier Vazquez (11.5 million) 2) Ben Sheets (14 million) 3) Jake Peavy (11 million) 4) Rafael Furcal (12 million)

That’s an estimated total of 48.5 million for 2009.

By Kerfeld

December 13, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

First of all, there’s no reason to panic. Burnett wasn’t going to make or break the year. He’s far from a lock to win 18 or 20 — or complete a full season. Second of all, don’t cave in to the Padres. See if they’ll reconsider, but don’t raid the farm. Thirdly, talk to Derek Lowe. He was always the best fit amond Peavy and Burnett. And finally, trust Wren and the scouts. I’m sure they have other pitchers rated highly that will cost far less. Maybe now we can use some real money to land the outfielder we need.

By Coach Smith

December 13, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this

Here is what I would like to see

1. Trade for PEAVY, use Escobar..if you can’t then try to trade for a GRIENKE/COCO CRISP package from the Royals

2. Sign FURCAL

3. Trade or sign a lower cost LF

4. Go after LOWE or SHEETS (he is the lower cost option)

5. Sign SMOLTZ

What do you guys think?

Which one(s) of my ideas are you for? Am I crazy?

What would you do?

By Coach Smith

December 13, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

Lets stop with the “We have a depleted farm system” CRAP

Our farm system is rated as one of the best in baseball and our MLB team has many many young guys on it (some of which could still be in the minors if we hadn’t had to have them)

By No Loss

December 13, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

Need we say more: (From Si article)

**Burnett, on the other hand, has reached 30 starts just twice in 10 seasons — both times prior to entering the market as a free agent — and has topped 180 innings just three times. He’s got a long history of arm problems, one that includes Tommy John surgery in 2003 and more than four months on the DL in 2006 and 2007, the former for elbow pain caused by the breakup of scar tissue from his surgery, and the latter for a shoulder strain. Both times, he came off the DL for less than a week before returning, furthering the perception that he was unwilling to pitch through any discomfort. Burnett “has often needed reassurance that he’s healthy,” wrote BP injury analyst Will Carroll amid the pitcher’s 2006 elbow woes.

By GTSteve

December 13, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

You can all sit here and complain about the Yankees all you want, but 2 teams went into the offseason with the goal of adding 2 top of the rotation pitchers to their roster. The Yankees have done just that, and the Braves………. If the Braves do not add pitching, the fans will not show up, then how much money will be available next offseason? And I definitely agree on one thing……If John Smoltz is allowed to sign somewhere else, I AM DONE.

By don

December 13, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

Burnett won’t be the next Mike Hampton for the Braves. How about Sheets? He is hurt all the time, too.

By Dadgum

December 13, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

Folks, I honestly can’t understand why the Braves INSIST that KJ is their man at 2nd. Just can’t. In my opinion if he can learn to play an adequate 2nd can’t he relearn LF. I mean we are looking at adding a power bat for LF who can play adequate defense. Right or wrong? OK, so KJ can put up 20 homers, has speed, and oh yeah he is already on the team and signed.

Prado would bring a good contact bat to 2nd everyday and better defense. To boot we would have more money to go after other needs and pitching.

Ask yourselves this, would the Braves be better off with Dunn, Ludwick, Ankiel than KJ in LF. I mean significantly better that they would trade current players to attain any of them. ABSOLUTELY NOT.

When the Braves quit being stubborn about their 2nd base situation they will find the answer to LF and 2nd base currently is already on the team.

Rock on……Wren has done a great job! Sometimes the trades and signings you pull away from are better than the ones you make. So now Wren…read above.

By 80'sbraves

December 13, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

The Braves mgmt stinks.. Wren is horrible. The only thing he has done is trade our valueable prospects and got nothing in return

By safebet

December 13, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

just hopeing MR WREN checks out CHIRS CAPUANO real winner before sugary. could be a still. also the status on MARK MULDER. and MARK PRIOR. you see where im going its worked for the BRAVES before. I like what we have sa good as whats out there. unless we can trade for a GRIENKE or a HALLADY type. also JAUN RIVERA is the of we need. JASON MICHEALS would be next choice or a lefty to platon with DIAZ.

By bevsouth

December 13, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

I agree with Mr.Baseball and the others who believe acquiring an “ace” will not make us a winner.It seems to me we should really focus on 2010. Now if by some miracle Smoltz and Glavine make it back and we are in the race in July we can still try to upgrade at that time. The new core , Hanson Heward, Freeman should be ready by 2010 to go along with Esco, KJ, Schaffer, Francouer(hopefully) and BMac, assuming Chipper is still healthy we could be right there in 2010. Right now IMO our biggest need is a power right handed bat.(Burrell)It worked for the Phils and we have defensive 7th inning replacemnts in abundance.

By Bill

December 13, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

You can forget Lowe, he’s not coming to the Braves. Try Sheets or Garland for 2yrs. and no more. Doubtful if they would come to Atlanta unless they were overpaid. The Braves don’t need to tie up long term contracts on broken down players. It’s time to move on from Smoltz and Glavine. No disrespect to them. As a Brave fan I have enjoyed them all these years. Out of respect for Chipper Jones, I would ask him if he want’s to go to a contender. It’s not happening in Atlanta for a few years.

By Bo

December 13, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

NUT How would Peavy make Francoeur a better hitter in 09? Nothing will help JF, need to trade to Royal for anything.

Bill I agree on Glavine,let him go. I would also ask Smoltz with Chip if he wants to go to contender. If not keep both. If we sign Peavy keep both.

Just heard on ESPN that Towers don’t have much choice but to call Braves about Peavy. Braves last chance for Ace.

Have a great week-end everyone.

By Steve

December 13, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

The problem with the Braves right now , if the horrible drafts from the mid 1990’s to around 2000. Look at it, we have Chipper from 1990, and then 2001 or 2002, you see Esco, KJ, Mac, Frenchy……etc. But where are the guys that were drafted in between. You have Wainright, (sp?) and LaRoche that were traded, but we are talking about 10 years of almost nothing.

By Big Al

December 13, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

I agree with most of you. Burnett is way too injury prone for that kind of money. We need to make a Peavy deal happen. He may be the best pitcher in baseball.

By Bobbymahlon

December 13, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

Dadgum : You hit the nail right on the head. So folks read his blog Dec.13th at 9:44am pertaining to left field and 2nd base. I like the idea of signing Smoltz and Sheets and bidding Glavine farewell.I also would not be against getting Dunn to play first base and trading Kotchman.

By Steve

December 13, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

A good website to visit to see how the teams got to where they are. www.mymlbdraft.com, you can look at all drafts back to the mid 1980’s. You can see funny little things like the Braves drafting Frenchy 2-3 picks before the Giants picked Matt Cain, anybody want a do-over on that one.

By used cars

December 13, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

One thing I keep wondering is, are Peavy and Furcal really $25 million a year better than Escobar and Hanson…At this point Furcal and Escobar are very similar as far a value, so that means everyone thinks that Peavy is worth 25 mill more than Hanson. Personally I would rather take that 25 and spend it on a Perez, Johnson, Sheets and a bat for lf…If you put Peavy at the front of the rotation and take Hanson off the back, you still need another starter..My preference would get Juan Rivera and Griffey Jr to platoon in lf or Rivera and work out a trade for Ankiel and then go get a starter like Sheets or Perez on a shorter deal..and lock up Smoltz..Rotation wouldn’t be quite as strong, but a lot of upside..Perez or Sheets, Jurjjens, Smoltz, Vazquez, Campillo or Hanson…Now if Peavy gets a little cheaper then maybe we have something to talk about…I pull Escober and offer them Medlen, Reyes, Hernandez, Diory Hernandez and kelly johnson

By SoWeGa Fanatic

December 13, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Frank, don’t read this blog.

By fordcobra

December 13, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

How about this Peavy JJ Sheets Vasquez Hanson

By Efrim

December 13, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

I know Frank Wren has the intention of contending next year, but I’m not so sure trading a large package of prospects for Peavy or Greinke is a good idea. I’m glad to hear that we aren’t going to go after Derek Lowe. I suppose, if the price wasn’t too steep, Ben Sheets would be a decent possibility. Giving him a two year deal and then making a minor trade for someone like Ian Snell would make this rotation have the potential to be above average.

But under no circumstances would I want Wren to make a trade where he surrenders several prospects for Greinke or Peavy.

By THE BEAR

December 13, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

I can’t remember ever reading a more extensive collective of negative drivel in my long life. And here is the absolute worst of them all.

*By BravesFan1994

December 12, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

Frank Wren is the worst GM in the history of the Atlanta Braves. He does not do what is needed to be done. Also, what is this Vazquez deal, he trades a player who is SHINING LIKE A STAR in the AFL for Vazquez, I mean Tyler Flowers could have been developed into a first baseman. Also, the Texeira deal, the Braves got NOTHING. Kotchman is not good at all. The best deal Wren has made is signing Tom Glavine and that was not a good deal. The fact that Vazques could be our oppening day starter sickens me. Again, the Padres asked about Tyler Flowers and Wren said he would not trade Flowers for Peavy, but he will trade him for Vazquez. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wren needed to take the intiative on Burnett, his first offer should have been a 5 year deal. I do not care about Burnetts past, the fact is Burnett is better than our whole pitching staff injury or not. Also, if Wren allows John Smoltz to sign somewhere else i will boycott the Braves FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

That is not only negative, it is also stupid, utterly stupid.

By Danny G

December 13, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

Just shows you how far the Braves have fallen as a team that players use to want to play for. All of these millions being thrown around is just insane when no one can afford to go to the games anymore. Personally, I can’t wait until the AAA team starts playing. That is where my family will be.

By 30YearBravesFan

December 13, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

Rebuilding a team does not happen overnight. I agree that AJ will not do well in the Bronx, assuming he even stays off the DL. Wren is working as hard as he can, given what he has to work with. Peavy without giving up Hanson makes sense. If not, settle back and wait a year or two for the youngsters to come up. Braves fans got spoiled by 14 seasons, and instant gratification doesn’t happen in rebuilding a team.

GO BRAVES!!!

By John Smoltz Day

December 13, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

MANY here are calling people UNGRATEFUL and saying they are DONE if WE allow Smoltzie to sign elsewhere. See, It is upon us to make sure that Smoltzie does not have a destitute retirement. WE must all chip in whatever it takes to sign him. IF 100 MILLION, so be it. How else do we stop people from leaving forever`. We must all realize that if we don’t ALL show OUR gratefulness that there might not be another World Series Championship over next 15 years like there was in the past 15 years. Just remenber how that one title imbued you with a sense of self worth and feeling of accomplishment. John Smoltz Day at Turner Field. Ask Smoltz what he requires before the game and then pack the place with an admission price that will guarantee John Happiness. That way he can pitch here in peace and tranquility up until he voluntarily retires or 1 start if he tears his shoulder up again. So be it. It is upon us to make it happen. Smoltz must stay in Atlanta. It is what defines us as a city and an area.

By Salty Dawg

December 13, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

To everyone complaining about Liberty Media and their supposed lack of payroll, take a look at the facts. In 2008 Atlanta had the 10th highest payroll among mlb teams. This year they reportedly bumped that figure by several million dollars. Look at the teams with higher payrolls - see a pattern? Most of these are much larger markets and can afford to spend crazy money on payroll. Anybody who has been to the Ted on a weeknight, or even a weekend, when the Cubs, Mets, or Red Sox aren’t in town should easily be able to see why the Braves can’t compete payroll-wise. Fans in seats=increased revenue=higher payroll. If you don’t like it, support your team by showing up once in a while. It’s actually pretty embarrassing when these other teams come to town and there are almost as many opposing fans as Braves fans.

1-N.Y. Yankees $209,081,579 $6,744,567 2-Detroit 138,685,197 4,622,840 3-New York Mets 138,293,378 4,609,779 4-Boston 133,440,037 4,765,716 5-Chicago White Sox 121,152,667 4,487,136 6-Los Angeles Angels 119,216,333 4,110,908 7-Chicago Cubs 118,595,833 4,392,438 8-Los Angeles Dodgers 118,536,038 4,233,430 9-Seattle 117,993,982 4,538,230 10-Atlanta 102,424,018 3,414,134 11-St. Louis 100,624,450 3,049,226 12-Toronto 98,641,957 3,522,927 13-Philadelphia 98,269,881 3,388,617 14-Houston 88,930,415 3,293,719 15-Milwaukee 81,004,167 2,793,247 16-Cleveland 78,970,067 3,037,310 17-San Francisco 76,904,500 2,651,879 18-Cincinnati 74,277,695 2,971,108 19-San Diego 73,677,617 2,376,697 20-Colorado 68,655,500 2,640,596 21-Texas 68,239,551 2,353,088 22-Baltimore 67,196,248 2,099,883 23-Arizona 66,202,713 2,364,383 24-Minnesota 62,182,767 2,487,311 25-Kansas City 58,245,500 2,240,212 26-Washington 54,961,000 1,895,207 27-Pittsburgh 49,365,283 1,898,665 28-Oakland 47,967,126 1,713,112 29-Tampa Bay 43,820,598 1,460,687 30-Florida 21,836,500 661,712

By used cars

December 13, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

I’m with you Bear…..When we were trying to get Peavy he was an arm injury ready to happen…when we didn’t he became Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine all rolled into one…I don’t mind flipping a couple of prospects or young guys..i.e. Kelly or some of the pitchers…as long as we’re getting good young players that fill our needs back…With the lefties we’re going to face I would like for us to get rh power bat for left..burrell is certainly not my first choice, but he does kill lefties….If we just want to go with free agents, then I’m for Juan Rivera and Oliver Perez…Rivera would be cheap and versatile and Perez matches up well with Phils and makes Mets weaker…Give him 4 at 10, get him out of the Big Apple and he may be close to the pitcher he was the first year in Pittsburgh…I’m wondering is DOB has heard any more about any possible trade matches with the Pirates, Tigers, Royals or Brewers?

By abd

December 13, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

I think losing Burnett is a blessing. He was not worth the money. I also think the Braves team is better than think as a whole. We had a lot of injuries last year that contributed to the poor season. You losing site of the fact that even in baseball it is a “team.” This team is good —- even with the B pitchers the Braves should do better than last year. The team does not appear to be that far away from contending. Finally, why not sign new free agent Ty Wigginton - he can play 3rd and outfield. He hit 23 home runs last year. That was more than our entire outfield and he did it hurt. He could come a good price and could be a solid backup when Chipper misses 45 games next year. We might be able to add Snell from Pirates. He is an excellent pitcher. I know he was injured last year - but he regrouped and finished strong. He appears to be healthy and would be a solid addition. At last, signing one of the free agent starters would then give the Braves a pretty solid rotation. (We really need Smoltz if he is healthy.

By Richt Raff

December 13, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

You’ve become South Carolina in the SEC East. Get over it. On second thought, South Carolina never won anything. You have ONE BCS Championship(World Series Championship). Braves have had a lot of EXCEPTIONAL “recruiting classes” to only have won ONE Championship.

By tr

December 13, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

Reasonable one-year options while the youngsters grow and learn:

Pettitte - motivated to prove something to the Yankees

Sheets - motivated to prove his worth

Johnson - just can’t seem to retire and close enough to 300 to be a box office draw

Smoltz & Glavine - no brainers - sure it’s early in their rehab, but I really believe that fans would appreciate knowing (now) that they’ll be around even if it’s just for a curtain call!

Sure they could all be considered health risks, but I’ve heard the same complaint about our top two targets.

And they’d only be one-year risks for a LOT less $$$/prospect risk than the previously mentioned top targets!

And what better mentors could you find for a young staff???

By wheelz007

December 13, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

There’s still plenty of pitching out there to fill our needs.

Ben Sheets or Jon Garland should be at the top of our list now, or a we trade for a top of the rotation guy (Peavy).

Re-sign Smoltz, and then take a chance on a guy like Randy Wolf or a Brad Penny.

Again, plenty of choices out there. Personally, I want Sheets.

By Rick Long

December 13, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Losing the idiotic bidding war with the Yankees was a blessing in disguise. I never understood the fascination with this oft-injured career underachiever in the first place. For all the Wren defenders out there, I think he can justifiably be criticized on several fronts.

First, for spending so much time on this doomed attempt to get Burnett in the first place (I see where he was quoted as saying “we knew we were swimming upstream [for Burnett] from the beginning”. Then why did he waste so much time on it to begin with?

Wren also needs to understand that the Braves are no longer a “glamour” team for free agents as they were in the past. Therefore, if he really wants a true ace, then he has to acquire one by trade.

Wren also can be criticized for making unnecessary public comments along the lines of “we’re done with the Padres unless they contact us and realize that the same offer will no longer be on the table”. I understand many, not just the Braves, are critical of Towers, but what possible good can come out these types of statements? This is particularly true since, so far, he hasn’t acquired a #1 starter. In my judgment at least he should reconsider seeing if there is chance to get Peavy (to the extent there is any truth to the claims that Peavy heretofore would not waive his no-trade to go to Atlanta, he may well wish to change his mind given the ridiculously deteriorating circus in San Diego).

By Thundersticks

December 13, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

**SIGN MANNY!!!

SIGN MANNY!!!

SIGN MANNY!!!**

By jj

December 13, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

I can’t pull up DOB’s blog is anyone else having a problem. It said can’t find the page.

By ohio brave

December 13, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

Easy on the Wren bashing and the chicken lttle acts. Wren has been in the middle of almost all of the talks up to this point of the off season. CC was out of range for the Braves to sign. But Wren went after AJ. And put a very strong offer on the table.(probably too much) Thank God he chose NY. Because all of the people bashing Wren for not getting him now, would be bashing him later for signing Hampton part 2. Not sure how many of you were paying attention in the 80’s, but with my Dad in the house, we didn’t have a choice. As bad as they were, we were hearing about these kids they had coming up, Chipper, etc. The Braves were patient and how were the fans rewarded for being patient as well? We got one hell of a run out of those kids coming up. Have patience, the Braves will be a contender within the next 2-3 years. Remember when the Yankees were the laughing stock of the league? I do. Every franchise has its ups and downs. Its just Atlanta’s turn to rebuild.

By Bama

December 13, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

Rick Long= Believe you’re right and maybe Wren knows it too. God Bless the USA.

By braveshoo

December 13, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Acrazy idea. Sign Manny Ramirez for 2 years at 22,500,000 per year. Then you have one of the best hitters in baseball, and chipper/ramirez/mccann at 3,4,5, are as good as the Phillies, Mets or anyone.With the rest of our team, I think we will have a potent line-up. Manny will make all of our hitters better. And we haven’t broken the bank, because we have only signed him for 2 years. By then our great young outfieldes on the farm will be ready.Then sign Smoltz to an incentive laden cotract-1,000,000 signing + 500,000 for every win. 10 wins costs us 6,000,000. Then sign Lowe for 15,000,000 for 3 years. We dont tie up assets too long while we are develping our young pitchers. Total output in dollars-37,500,000. Lineup- Schafer/Blanco, Escobar, Jones, Ramirez, McCann, Johnson, Frenchy, Kotchman. Rotation; Smoltz, Lowe, JJ, Vasquez, Hanson.

By Philliesuk

December 13, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

Facts:

By Erik

December 13, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Why do all of you people have us signing/trading for four pitchers including Smoltz. They have said from the beginning they were only looking to acquire two starters. we have Vasquez. The braves are only looking for one more plus Smoltz(hopefully). The braves will not trade for an ace like Peavy or Greinke and then sign Lowe or Sheets. It simply wont happen. It would be a waste. the braves have Campillo, JJ, Morton, and Hanson. JJ will certainly be in that rotation regardless of what moves we make. Then the braves would be talking about filling either the 4 and 5 spots or just the 5 spot with those three. If it is one spot I have to guess that Campillo gets the nod. While many have said you don’t think he can handle the role until he proves you correct I believe the job is his. He finished with a 3.88(lower than Brunett) and that includes a 6.75 in his last 10 starts. Must point to that as a sign that Campillo cant handle it but I would argue that the team as a whole gave up at that point. Campillo’s slide began august 8th which was just after Hudson went down and Tex was traded. The team was demoralized and did not have the same fire while playing. I would argue Campillo’s last 10 starts represent a lack of fire rather than a lack of skill. Just for the record through Campillo’s first 103 innings he had a 2.58 ERA(when the braves were int it). Some of you may take this as a indictment om Campillo’s character but it is not meant to be. Every player on the Braves suffered a drop in production from that point in the season. Including JJ whose ERA rose more than half a run. The Braves have some good young arms and and I feel confident that our rotation will have Campy and JJ. If Campy does prove last year was a fluke then we have Morton and Hanson to step up and we all know the story on Hanson. Hopefully a start in the minors cand give Morton some confidence.

I think the braves have an opportunity to form a very solid and possibly good rotation. Vazquez, JJ, and Campillo could form the best back end rotation in the national league. If the Braves can sign Smoltz to fill the 2 hole then the need a number 1. DOB alluded to a possible Greinke trade. I hope he is correct because I feel that would give us the number one starter we need(plus he is young and healthy).

Then the braves contribution would shift to finding two outfield bats.(Greinke trade would likely include Frenchy)

I could see a Frenchy and KJ trade with a Reddmond type prospect getting it done. This trade would probably be close to a wash from a financial standpoint. The salaries of Frenchy and KJ after arb will probably come close to Greinke’s. That means the braves would have around 30-35 to spend. Lets say Smoltz takes 7 of that. So the braves would leave 23-28 to fill any voids. I would then suggest a Boyer and prospect or JoJo and prospect for Ankiel trade. This gives us a solid defensive outfielder with some big pop potential. That should only use up about 4 million of our remaining funds. I would then look into Furcal to see if for 10-11 mill he would play second. I know the fookie train seems to be headed no where but we really need a leadoff hitter. Esco is more of a two hole guy so adding Fookie with speed and pop at the top of the lineup makes us a better club. Then with the remaining dough I would look around for a right handed bat The braves are deadly against righties but tend to struggle against lefties (Chipper and McCann have much more pop against righties). So to balance out our lineup I would for someone like Abreu. That way the braves could plug Ankiel in the 4 spot against righties and Abreu against lefties. It would also give us another bat to protect the 4 hitter on nights when McCann is off.

Our Lineup would look like

Fookie

Esco

Chipper

Ankiel/Abreu

McCann

Ankiel/Abreu

Kotchman

Schaffer/Blanco/Diaz

Our Rotations would be

Greinke

Smoltz

JJ

Vasquez

Campillo

with Morton and Hanson waiting in the wings

By Nelson

December 13, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

Trading Yunel and bringing back Furcal will be the worst decision the Braves could make. Furcal is a Frustrated leading hitter who wants to swing for the fences instead to use his natural abilities to get on base and score runs. What the Braves has to do is improve their scouting staff, I don’t know how the Marlins are able to find out such talented players almost every year ( remember, Burnett, Becket,etc,all started with the Marlins).

By kent

December 13, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

The Yankees will regret Burnett by June. Thank goodness he chose them. Sign Sheets and Dunn.

By DJ

December 13, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

WE have to sign at least TWO of the four pitchers listed: Gsrland, (trade for) Greinke, Perez, or Sheets.

As far as hitters are concerned: Dunn, (trade for either) Abreu, Bradley, Dunn, Dye, or Ordonez.

The Peavy thing WILL NOT HAPPEN. Quit dreaming.

Re-signing Smoltzie is a MUST.

I SIMPLY CANNOT UNDERSTAND OF FINALLY HAVING THE MONEY TO SPEND ON SOME QUALITY PLAYERS VIA FREE AGENCY AND NOT BEING AGGRESSIVE IN DOING SO. This HAS NOT ben the situation for the Braves in about 4 years when the Braves got Tim Hudson from the A’s. GO FIGURE!!!

By safebet

December 13, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

FURCAL may have to play outfield with that back of his.

By safebet

December 13, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

frenchy is Vlad G. HIS BAT IS JUST TO SMALL TO HIT ALL THOSE PITCHES HE SWINGS AT. LOOK AT HOW BIG VLADS BAT IS. DIAZ needs to study BOB HORNER tapes. these guys reminde me so much of them. its cant be much of an ajustment. might just be mental.

By sugarbearblanks

December 13, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

Time to give Hanson, JJ and Morton the Glavine-Smoltz rookie treatment. Put them into the frey and let them get experince. Please no Randy Wolf’s or Jon Garland’s - I had lifetime of those type signings back in the 70’s. While your at stick Shaeffer and center and pick up decent platoon left feilder. No Dunn or Burrell, one Jeff Borroughs was enough.

By safebet

December 13, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

JOE NELSON 54 Inn. 60 So.

By BravesFaninPhilly

December 14, 2008 12:55 AM | Link to this

Honestly the Braves shouldve done this three weeks ago…

Trade for Peavy now and include Escobar.. then sign Furcal back.. then trade Kelly Johnson to the Cards for either Ludwick or Ankiel…

If the Peavy deal does not go down then do not go after Sheets because he is such a liablity due to injuries. The Braves need Jake Peavy to make any run at the playoffs in the near future and they will have to send the Padres an appealing package. I like how Wren stuck to his guns about Hanson but thats the only thing I like about him. He needs to talk up somebody else to same way like Flowers was, but then trade them to San Diego. Hype up one of those outfielders (Jordan Schafer or somebody) and make them seem untouchable but then trade them.

Please get Peavy!!! I want 2010 rotation of… Peavy-Hudson-Jurrjens-Campillo and Hanson

BTW.. the Braves need Smoltz more than they are willing to say

By ChopChamps95

December 14, 2008 1:27 AM | Link to this

We need Peavy, but that deal won’t get done because Wren is either too stupid, too ignorant, or both to make that happen. And for the outfield, I actually wouldn’t mind seeing Ankiel in centerfield for a few year. You put your best arm, and in my opinion, your best bat in center. You think Jordan Schafer has either one of those qualities? Ankiel could throw farther and hit better from the ride side than Schafer can from his natural (left) side. Go for Ankiel.

By Bobbymahlon

December 14, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

Braveshoo: I go along with what you say but I doubt if we could ever get Lowe for 5mil a year. Manny is certainly the right handed hitter we need even though I hate his negative fielding attitude in left field.

By ryan

December 14, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

What do you guys think about these names: Aaron Heilman, just dealt to Mariners. Ian Snell, Pirates Ian Kennedy

These guys are promising starters, and their values have cratered. Could be gotten on the cheap!

I also agree the Yanks saved the Braves from themselves w/ Burnett, and we should now focus on signing Ben Sheets.

By CK

December 14, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

By ed dees

December 15, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this

5 years is a little too long to sign a guy with injury problems. the braves need to get back to what made them great, playing their great prospects instead of trading them for players that are not going to resign with you.

By ROBIN

December 15, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this

Resign Smoltz, Jurrjens #2, Vazquez #3, Camp as #5 and bring up Hanson as #5. There are no decent free agent pitchers now so lets just move with what we have.

Then

Sign Burrows to our outfield and bring up Schaffer for the center field. We might not win the title but this year we just have to wait it out until Hudson gets back and hopefully we can resign him to another 3 or 4 years.

By Robert

December 15, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this

I dont know what they will do but I can tell you this. I do not want another pitcher that has injury problems. We just got rid of Hamptons huge contract and it was a sore one. Im glad Atlanta did not sign Burnett. He will land on the DL in no time. Our team is young and Jurrjens could be a number 1 on many low budge teams. Hes good and will be better this year with a good pen. Bring up Hanson and resign Smoltz to lead the way. That and with Vazquez and maybe Camp or Morton, let them pitch their way. If I remember back a few years, Smoltz and Glavine were not 18 game winners their first couple years. Isnt there another pitcher in the minors also thats very good. Why not let him compete for a spot also. Im willing to wait a year or two rather then spend millions on pitchers who will end up like Hampton.

By MoBrave

December 15, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

Surprised no one has mentioned Mark Mulder. Dude is 130-60 or something like that in his ML career. If you are going to go after an injury risk like Burnett or Sheets, why not Mulder, a lefty (which we need). Give him a low-risk, incentive-laden contract for one year. There’s little to lose with that approach, and teams are not breaking down his door. Gamble a bit. The upside potential is tremendous.

By The Dude

December 15, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

Given that Peavy has some of the nastiest stuff in MLB and a trade has not been worked out for him with some team by now leads me to believe there is a very real risk that his arm is not fully sound. It’s time to build this team around the young talent we have…Escobar, McCann, Frenchy (hopefully he rebounds), Jair, and this Tommy Hanson (if he is as good as advertised). Pack it in this year and trade for a good pitching prospect.

There is no way to build the pitching depth at this point that you would need to compete with the Mets and Phils.

By JR

December 15, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

One thing is for sure…Wren is no Schuerholz

By zach thigpen

December 15, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

OK so we didn’t get Burnett. But thats alright and I’ll tell you why. As I sit here and write this little post there is a pitcher who for the last five years has averaged 14 wins, 10 losses, a 4.55 era, and 200 innings of baseball a year. Derek Lowe? No sir, it is the most under valued pitcher to have back to back 18 win seasons that i can think of. John Garland. He won’t get a huge amount of strike outs, but along with Vazquez this is a man that will help do something this Braves staff hasn’t done in a while, and that is to get deep into ball games, keep the ball in the park, and give more quality starts than not. He’s out there waiting for an offer and I hope we don’t wait too long.

By Smooth

December 15, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

To the guy who is down on Wren in bold. I bet you don’t even go to games and who cares if you boycott the Braves forever. I think that we really do need Peavy, but I am not sorry we did not get Burnett for the money he wanted and also Tex’s is not worth what he is asking. Go watche the Mets buddy.

By Nick

December 15, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

It may have to be a wait and see beginning to the season for the Braves.

If the Padres ever become reasonable with their requests for Peavy that would be top notch, but perhaps the Braves should start the season with a rotation of:

Smoltz (hopeful) Jurrjens Vazquez Campillo Morton / Hanson / Glavine

And then seeing where certain teams are financially come June/July. Maybe the D-backs are willing to trade Dan Haren at that point. Or the Astros are willing to trade Oswalt.

It could be a better option than trying to make any trade possible just for the sake of hopefully making that “big trade.”

By chris

December 15, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

You continue to say you want to spend money on pitching and trade for Jake Peavy. You were dumb enough for trading for Javier Vasquez and giving up the prospects that you did. So now your gonna give up your top shortstop plus three+ prospects. Ben Sheets should be their top priority. Then attempt to trade for Rick Ankiel for a mid level prospect and Blaine Boyer or Matt Diaz. He hit 25 hrs last year and is a good center fielder. Then youll have 1.Yunel-SS 2. Kelly Johnson-2B 3. Chipper 3B 4. Ankiel(CF)/Mccann(C) 5. Ankiel(CF)/Mccann(C) 6. Casey Kotchman(1B) 7. Jeff Francour(RF)8. Jordan Shafer(CF). Then your Pitching staff should consist of 1. Ben Sheets 2. Jair Jurrjens 3. Javier Vasquez 4. John Smoltz/Tom Glavine(one not both) 5.Tommy Hanson. You need to build from within. I think Peavy has electric stuff but DONT give away the prospects like you did for Javy Vasquez. OH and wouldnt have throwing in Tyler Flowers have boosted the deal for Peavy anyway. FIRE FRANK WREN

By Ed Glennon

December 15, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

We now have a group of starting pitchers who match our starting outfielders. I think the starting pitchers have more power even without Hampton. Ask yourself this question: Who would you rather see hit with the bases loaded Francour or Campillo? I think that says it all.

By gayle

December 15, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

It’s time that the “R” word no longer be whispered behind closed doors. Ut’s time to say it in public, in front of other people, be put ont he record for it.

The word is - REBUILDING

The Braves did not sign free agents because by definition, these players are free to go wherever they want - and they don’t want to come here. They don’t want to play for a team that is either rebuilding or pretending to compete.

We got all the players we wanted in the 90’s and not just because of money - they came here because this was a winning franchise.

It isn’t that way here anymore.

And what about all you fans who worship the ground that Smoltz walks on? He was ready to walk years ago unless they took him out of the bullpen and if the recent reports are true, it looks like he is ready to abandon ship again.

This is your team player? Please!!

By wayne

December 15, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

yes!!!!!!!!! refocus on peavy.sweetened the pot pot if we have to.we cannot come out of winter meetings without having an ace of the staff.I know smoltzy is injured,Glavine is not the same anymore.lets faceit,they are old.we need to sureup our startin 5.do what we have to.the mets are not taking no prisoners!!!they are spending.we cannot spend because we do not have it but we are smart as well as resiliant and I do believe we have the bargaining chip (ie talents,farm team) thats wortth more than gold.

By Dixie Dawg

December 15, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this

Yeah, wayne, give up the farm for a guy whose arm could give out. Thanks but no thanks.

By jerry

December 15, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

On the Burnett poll: 83 percent of Braves fans say Yanks made a mistake. That’s kind of odd considering the Yankees have a history of winning world titles and the Braves have a history of finishing last more than winning championships. I mean who usually makes mistakes?

By Chad

December 15, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

Man would everyone just relax. Teams are not built in the offseason with just the beginning and the winter meetings. Season changing trades happen during late winter and spring taining. Waiting is always best, let the free agent market allow the numbers for guys like Garland and Sheets be set by someone else. If I was serious about anyone in that range it would be Garland. Trades for players facing arbitration will always be there. As far as I am concerned I would rather see them wait and build longterm with young guys and be competitive. At some point kids have to play or you trade them when they have value. Wren is a pretty smart guy I think he has a clear plan and will do the things he can and if it doesn’t work out he will move on to the next thing. Relax everybody be patient.

By Dave Klemmer

December 15, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Sign 2 of the following three: Sheets, Oliver Perez Jon Garland. Then go get Adam Dunn 40 hr and 100 rbi. Yes he will strike out alot but he will walk alot as well. when Smoltz comes back in June the rotation will look very strong

By cityofdecatur

December 16, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this

BRING UP THE YOUNG GUNS and rebuild. A little suffering will make us stronger in the long run. Anyway ain’t going be the same this summer without SKIP and PETE Everyone take a chill pill. Hit the bongo and and relax Wren will do the right thing! See you in Spring training!!!! bye

By TK

December 16, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this

Im dissappointed in the Braves, but there are 3 things i do know.

1) I’ve always liked Vasquez since he was with the Expos

2) Escobar for Peavy was a little much for the Braves to swallow and rightfully so, Esco is not only a great hitter, but his defense is incredible.

3) Burnett got a lot more money then he was worth and after days of pondering the decision Im glad the braves didnt get stuck with his contract.

We definitely need to find two pitchers…Garland and Snell would be two younger guys that are quality pitchers.

And one more bat…in the outfield. i like Diaz and Francouer, just need one more guy. I like both Prado and KJ so…maybe one of those guys for an outfielder…but it would be nice if we could go another route?

By Braves52

December 16, 2008 7:30 AM | Link to this

At least the early Ted Turner early years were fun, with Turner in the dugout and goofy things going on. Now,under Wren we look like Kansas City. At least I won’t be spending money coming to Atlanta to watch a game. I can go to a minor league game locally.

By cgoss

December 16, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

Trade for Peavy, resign Smoltz for a 1yr deal, go after Sheets or Lowe, GO HARD FOR ADAM DUNN…That Way in 2010 we’ll have Huddy,Peavy,JJ,Lowe/Sheets & last but not LEAST Camp…GO BRAVES!