ajcsportstalk

By ranger

August 20, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this

And the concept of having one of your hottest hitters bunt was?????? Why not go for the big inning rather than the tie against an “inferior” opponent? If the sacrifice worked they still would have walked Brian to set up the double play.

By jeff p

August 20, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this

Ranger,

I agree. But it always goes back to fundamentals with this team. If you lay down the bunt appropriately, you put much more pressure on the opponent. Say Cox lets LaRoche swing away and he of course then hits into a double play the old fashioned way (as the Braves like to do all the time). Do you blame Cox/coaches for not stressing the fundamentals? Or does it sometimes come down to accoutability of the player executing the event? I know the elite teams would have gotten the runner to score in that situation (successful bunt, sac fly, etc.) as this is how the game is supposed to be played. Let’s face it (as has been said a million times this year), this team ain’t got “it”. They will hope to play for .500 and then look to next year.

By MurphyRules

August 20, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this

because LaRoche bunted doesn’t mean Cox told him to do it. Sometimes players do those things on their own. I bet LaRoche did. He makes some of the most boneheaded plays I’ve ever seen.

By Greg

August 20, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

Cox told him to bunt. It was the right decision. Sometimes you lose, even when you make the right decision.

By MBATL

August 20, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this

Ranger, they would probably have walked Langerhans and pitched to McCann with the bases loaded, don’t you think?

By jc

August 20, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this

after this one you just gotta wonder if the baseball gods are against us. Francoeur (who I am sure everyone is a fan of today) makes a great hustle play and it gets taken away. Bunting was the right play. When was the last time you saw a double play like that? The worst case scenario on that play was first and second with one out for McCann. Best case was bases loaded one out for Langy who is very difficult to double up. What happened was the baseball equivalent of Katrina. Methinks it just ain’t our year.

By bravesfan79

August 20, 2006 06:06 PM | Link to this

I can almost understand the Laroche bunting incident, but why in the world would Cox bring in Tyler Yates in such a critical tied game to begin with in the late innings??? Yates has really struggled lately and I thought that this was such a critical game for the braves to win..They had their shot if almost any other of the bullpen would have been brought in, in my opinion..I love what Cox has done for the organization, but really thought he lost the game today.

By Jorge

August 20, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this

Well, the loves affair that Bobby Cox has with Tyler Yates needs to be put to sleep - now! A week and a half ago it was the meltdown against Philly, now the critical loss against the Marlins. He needs to be buried in the bullpen. He is the spitting image of Chris Reitsma, a choke waiting to happen.

You’ll know when the Braves are on a hot streak when the two Joneses are hot together; this has not happened all season long. A microcosm of this was the eighth inning Sunday - Renteria on second, one out. Chipper pops out and Andruw strikes out - just lovely. Fact is, the Joneses were conspicuous by their absence this weekend in South Florida.

Kudos to Lance Cormier for a gutty performance in the Sunday heat and humidity. He pitched extremely well, and gave the Braves six solid innings - with no walks! (A concept that was obviously lost on Yates when he came on and walked the first batter he faced.)

Kudos also for Pete Orr, who has shown grit and hustle in the abscence of Marcus “I pull EVERYTHING!” Giles. Timely hits and a knack for getting on in the leadoff spot makes me feel good about his presence on the bench, now with Wilson Betemit gone.

Funny thing. Asking Adam LaRoche to bunt not one, but two men over in the ninth was like asking for peace in the Middle East - you were just on your knees begging for trouble. The Kangaroo Court will have fun with Bobby for that call, and for LaRoche’s inability to execute - a talent for which he has a penchant.

By Azmi

August 20, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this

You can’t win them all. The funny thing is that the people who are critical of Bobby in a loss are never as quick to give credit for a win. Cormier threw a hell of a game and gave us a shot. Francouer showed a lot of hustle legging out that double late. If we keep getting good pitching performances and playing with this much heart nothing is out of the question.

Go Braves! Fight ‘til the end.

By MBATL

August 20, 2006 06:28 PM | Link to this

Yates has good stuff… he was hitting the high 90’s today; gave up an opposite field triple to a dead pull hitter. Go figure. He was really good in June and July. As we all know, Bobby doesn’t give up on guys very easily, for better or worse.

What I find funny is that Cormier gets kudos (well deserved) for giving up 3 runs in 6 innings… uh, about 1 run every 2 innings; and Yates gets hammered for giving up… 1 run in 2 innings.

Oh well, it was a frustrating loss, for sure.

By fjensen

August 20, 2006 06:32 PM | Link to this

I completely agree about yates. Why bring him into such a critical situation. Cox does not manage critical games well. Now how long is it going to take him to release yates where he can do no damage? Also the double play by Pratt hurt the Braves. When you have your worse pitcher starting why not give him all the support possible?

By Steve

August 20, 2006 06:37 PM | Link to this

I think bunting in this situation with LaRoche was absurd, especially on the road. I think it would have been a dumb call even if the Braves were playing at home. Even if the bunt had gone well, you would have been sacrificing an out while still being one run behind. In a tie game, or in a game where the Braves could use an insurance run, it might have made sense to risk a bunt with a hot power hitter who is a poor bunter. This was one of your better hitters of late, up against a right handed pitcher of the type you would expect to get some real good pitches to hit in a runners at 1st & 2nd and no out situation. Why would a manager choose to turn down such a situation, down by a run on the road in the top of the 9th?

By kerry

August 20, 2006 06:44 PM | Link to this

Bunting was the right choice, IMO.

That being said, if you’re going to sacrifice then square around and put down a good bunt to move the runners up. LaRoche didn’t square around until the pitcher let go of the ball. Then to compound the horrible bunt attempt he was looking back at the catcher as he fielded it; not running the play out like all players learn to do in t-ball. Also, did you see how he crossed the bag when he got to first? No excuse for the lack of hustle. He needs to be benched again like he was earlier this season after the lack of hustle play (against the Nats, I believe).

By MurphyRules

August 20, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

Read the quotes people. Bobby didn’t tell him to bunt:

“I don’t know what [LaRoche] was doing,” Cox said. “I told him, ‘Even if you’re successful, they’re still going to walk [Brian McCann].’ Roachy has been the hottest hitter since the All-Star break — in just about all of baseball. He was trying to do too much.”

“We need wins right now, and I knew I could get the bunt down,” said LaRoche, who has hit 12 of his 25 homers since the All-Star break. “I didn’t do it, but I’ve got a ton of confidence bunting. I’m not asked to do it that much. But when I do it, I normally can get the job done. I just wanted to at least push one run across.”

“I can’t imagine why a guy with 25 bombs would be bunting, especially when the lineup behind him doesn’t favor it,” Chipper Jones said. “If you bunt, they’re just going to walk [McCann]. You don’t want them to walk Mac.”

“My thought right before [the at-bat] was, ‘Get this down. Mac isn’t going to get pitched to. We’ve got bases loaded, one out and go from there,’” LaRoche said. “But obviously, if I could do it over again, I’m swinging.”

By MBATL

August 20, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

If he’s successful, we bat Langerhans, let Florida walk HIM, and then bat McCann with the bases juiced. Don’t you think?

By Young

August 20, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this

Do not worry, you are too impatient, all the Braves needed is getting on a 200 game winning streak and the Mets getting on a 1000 game losing streak this season and the Braves will win the Division for 2006 by a quarter of a game, just wait and see it will happen the Baseball God has said many times that it will happen by tomorrow. The magic number for the Braves to win the East in 5000 and it will happen because the Baseball God will make it happen. Stop being so impatient.

By bobbo

August 20, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this

First off pratt playing killed us, the double play early set the tone. Of course Yates was bad but hen is he good he is atarting to look lik the seconsd coming of Reitsma. Im not concerned about roachy bunting, but why would you not bunt with Diaz, sure he’s hot but he is the kinda guy that handles the bat well then you have Roachy and Mccann up with a man on third and one out, seems very logical not surte why diaz was swinging.

By MBATL

August 20, 2006 07:06 PM | Link to this

MurphyRules: I really thought you were making those quotes up… being funny … til I saw them on mlb.com. WOW, I can’t believe Bobby and Chipper were being so candid about that play. Or that Adam would take it upon himself to do that. I thought the bunt made sense, but can’t believe he’d do it without direction, and without the runners being on alert.

By bobbo

August 20, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this

Lets make sure we give credit to frenchy, I frequently rip the guy and today, he made things happen, scored an early run on a nice single on a pitchers ptch golfed out a homer and hustled , thats what we need to see more of. Can someone put yates to sleep? Apparently Laroche didnt take his a.d.d medicine today cause that was the stupidest decision i have ever seen, to bunt there is not crazy but to make the decision on your own is absurd.

By dfree

August 20, 2006 07:19 PM | Link to this

laroache was probably scared of hitting into the double play, bad thing is that he ended up doing that, if u watch the replay, he wasnt even running hard down to first, i know i know hes not the fastest, but he must not of thought they were going to throw back to first because he was not running hard until the end when he did some kinda side step.

Yates, ray, paronto, all those guys were the same guys having problems in the 6th 7th 8th and 9th before, not its just the 6th or7th, there is no excuse for not throwing strikes, his big problem is that he has a flat fastball that kids creamed a lot when a hitter catches up, he pitches scared because of this

By stew

August 20, 2006 07:41 PM | Link to this

There are certain pitches during a game that because of the situation should be taken. Too many times we don’t play good situational ball. Plate the run! First and second nobody out - take a pitch - too many times we swing at the first pitch - too anxious. How about a conservative approach - LaRoche takes a pitch and looks for a free pass. If he takes worst case scenario he has an 0-1 count. We don’t have any patience in crucial offensive moments during the game. Play the batting count to your advantage. Unfortunately, when Furcal left he took his “Little Ball” game with him. We never manufacture.

By Don

August 20, 2006 07:44 PM | Link to this

Old Bob lost this one. If he wanted a bunt, put someone in who knew how to bunt- like Smoltz. Yates, with his 15 plus ERA in August, was also a rather poor choice, don’t you think?

Yes indeed, Old Bob lost this one. Place the blame where it belongs.

By Don

August 20, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this

Well, after reading the story, I have to believe that LaRoche didn’t have the bunt sign. Still, Old Bob lost the game with Yates and with the failure to have any control over his own hitter. Everyone can give Cox a pass but the fact is, he hasn’t shown much “genius” in the last couple of months. Of course, neither has Schuerholz. Hall of Famers? Hopefully not. The Hall is far too diluted now.

By GoBraves

August 20, 2006 07:51 PM | Link to this

If you let Roachy swing then even if he hits into a double play at least you will have a runner at third with 2 outs instead of a runner at second with two outs.Because the chances of getting Francouer out at third are slim on a batted ball to short,third,or first.

By Greg

August 20, 2006 07:56 PM | Link to this

Cox usually doesn’t let a power hitter to bunt! LaRoche should have swung away. He might have made a productive out at least a runner would have been at 3rd base with 1 out. The Braves can’t continue to lose 1 run games in thinking they are going to make to the playoffs. However 2/3 aint bad, it could have been worse. The must go on a tear at home and in September!!!!!!!!!!!

By Andy

August 20, 2006 08:03 PM | Link to this

Adam bunts when he is not suppose to—then he watches the bunt instead of going to 1st as quickly as possible—-THEN he pulls up when he thinks he is safe—Wow.

By Nola

August 20, 2006 08:21 PM | Link to this

If bunting was the right call, why didn’t the Braves win. And Cox is 0 for 10 in that same situation all year long. It may be the right call by the book, but maybe the book is wrong. With a weak hitter up, bunt; but with two power hitters coming up, go for the big hit. Cox blows another. Also, right about Yates. Wrong call in that situation. Bring Baez in and let him pitch two innings. Cox would pass out before he would do that.

By Nola

August 20, 2006 08:23 PM | Link to this

If LaRoche was bunting on his own, what was the sign? Surely, there was someone giving a sign.

By gotigers72

August 20, 2006 08:24 PM | Link to this

Karma is not with the Btaves this year baby! Bunting into a double play when a bunt sign wasn’t even given, another reliever walking the first hitter he faces who then ends up scoring. This has just been a horrible year. Except for the continued hustle of the young players [LaRoche is not in this category]. I love watching Frenchy, Thorman, Langerhans , Orr, Diaz, McCann, Marcus,and any other player [Smoltz] that busts his butt, plays the game the way it’s supposed to be played. Play the game hard every play, every pitch. That bodes well for the future, maybe even next year if they can find some pitching to go with the offense

By Yars

August 20, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

LaRoche should not have bunted. A player with 25 HR, with runners on 1B and 2B should have swung. This game was a big game. The Braves can’t keep affording to lose these games they should have won. So here we are, 5.5 games out again. Good grief. Langerhans didn’t help either. Swinging at the first pitch? C’mon Langy, get your *hit together. There’s a reason you lost your LF starting job to Diaz. Think about it. We needed this win.

By Don

August 20, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

In any case, a fundamentally sound decision was unfundamentally performed. Why do I get the feeling this team isn’t very fundamentally sound sometimes? Well. maybe because they aren’t.

By MurphyRules

August 20, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

Can you idiots not read?!?! COX DID NOT CALL FOR THE BUNT!!! Jesus!

Not every pitch or play in a baseball game is scripted by the manager. This isn’t Little League. Most good managers let their players make their own decisions. I’m sure, now that Cox knows he has to, he’ll give LaRoche the “DON’T BUNT” sign from now on.

This one is on LaRoche, not Cox. And don’t blame Cox for Yates’ failures either. Cox isn’t the guy who walked the leadoff man in the 7th. Hell, after the triple, Yates looked darn good.

By You Can't Read Can You

August 20, 2006 08:48 PM | Link to this

Reading the posts I’m amazed how many are griping about Bobby calling for the bunt. Can’t you people read?!?!

Bob said he didn’t know what LaRoche was doing and further reading of the game details even have Adam stating that he took it on himself to bunt.

Some here need a reading comprehension course.

By bobbo

August 20, 2006 08:54 PM | Link to this

Why wasn’t diaz bunting frenchy over, and then let la roche and mcann whack away with a man on third and one out. I feel this is what diaz is here to do the little things and the guy handles the bat well, that would of made the most since. Will someone tell yates to stop calling reitsma for advice

By bobbo

August 20, 2006 08:55 PM | Link to this

sorry for the typo sense not since

By nathan

August 20, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this

I’ve been “ON” LaRoche just as much as everybody all season.

I don’t have a problem WHATSOEVER with him trying to drop a bunt down. Obviously NOBODY in the stadium saw it coming. Bobby said that they would’ve walked McCann anyhow had he got it down. I’ve got two things to say to that.

1) How about when you have your 5th starter (or starter of the day) on the mound, you have your best hitter in the lineup! Let Prat catch when Smoltz is on the mound. He doesn’t need the run support as much as everybody else. Maybe if McCann had 4 AB’s today, it’s not even an issue come the 9th inning.

2) What if LaRoche gets the bunt down and makes it to 1st with the element of surprise? I know McCann is GOOD, but he’s not Barry Bonds good, where you walk him intentially with the bases loaded, so he doesn’t knock in more than 1 run with a hit. Did Bobby think of that?

It’s assinine comments like Bobby’s and Chipper’s, that explain EXACTLY why this team CHOKES THEIR A*******ES off in the post season. YOU CAN’T ALWAY HIT A 3-RUN HOMER. Bobby has no concept of what small ball is. I bet if LaRoche swings away and grounds into a double play (very much of a possiblity), Bobby would’ve said something like “Aw shucks, Roachy hit the daylights out of the ball, but he hit it right at em’”

If you’re going to hold a player accountable for their actions, and call him out publically, which is exactly what Bobby just did (I thought Bobby doesn’t fire back at players through the media), then he should do it EVERY TIME A PLAYER FAILS! Don’t pick tiny little moments to pick on your best hitter since the all-star break.

Just another sign, that the wheels are comin’ off, I guess. Bobby needs to go. He obviously doesn’t have “control” of his troops anymore. If he ever actually did.

By You Can't Read Can You

August 20, 2006 09:08 PM | Link to this

Gee Nathan you are obviously a LaRoche lacky boy aren’t you? Adam screwed up. He didn’t think. He never thinks. He’s got ADD. He’s a moron.

By Kevin C

August 20, 2006 09:15 PM | Link to this

I posted yesterday that LaRoche has probably played himself into another year in Atlanta, then HE makes a decision to bunt?? Cox is the manager and he will get the blame but this one is on LaRoche and it speaks volumes about himself and his lack of confidence in his late game hitting ability.

By You Can't Read Can You

August 20, 2006 09:17 PM | Link to this

The only mistake Bobby made was not calling these waterheads out a couple of months ago in the press. He’s covered his players butts so many times in the press over the last 14 years its not even funny. This group is different. They don’t think, they can’t concentrate, they all must have A.D.D. They are like geese, they wake up in a new world every day. Sometimes coddling doesn’t work. This group has been coddled too much.

By Braves20

August 20, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this

The situation in the ninth calls for a bunt. We have Adam LaRoche up. Logical call - Pena or someone to lay down a bunt. But aha! We have no one on the bench who has played a single inning at first base all year - a situation made necessary by our incredibly weak pitching staff - Thurman sent down so we can carry what - about 18 AAA pitchers? I think Bobby Cox should have been fired about five years ago but today his hands were tied basically by the lack of intelligent moves regarding our pitching staff in the off-season by “the author.”

By braves fan

August 20, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this

idk what laroche is thinking if we would have won we would have passed 4 teams bobby ought to bench him for 4 games that was rediculous

By Head Coach

August 20, 2006 09:48 PM | Link to this

In retrospect , Laroche bunting wasnt a bad idea except for the fact that he doesnt know how to bunt. He tried to bunt a pitch in on his hands , got jammed and popped it up. Everybody wants to blame him unfairly even though the Braves trailed the Marlins all game. Cox bringing Yates in to pitch the seventh was a brain fart and contributed more to this loss than Laroche did. Last ten games 6-4 , last fifteen 8-7 , last twenty 10-10 , last twenty-five 11-14 last thirty 14-16 …….. not exactly a team looking at the playoffs are they ????

By nathan

August 20, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this

You Can’t Read Can You

Not even close!

Until DOB posted LaRoche’s stats since the end of May, I’ve been saying dump his arse ASAP! I’ve never liked his swing, too long in my book. Nobody must read scouting reports on him or Francoeur. If they did, both of them would have about 10-15 HR’s at best.

I just don’t have a problem with him “trying to make something happen” by laying down a bunt.

I’d rather see that, than Fracoeur or the rest of the roster (LaRoche included) SWING at the first pitch. Bobby calls out LaRoche for bunting. But has allowed Francoeur to swing at the first pitch for 5 months. He not only allows it, he encourages it! “We wouldn’t want to take away his agressiveness!”……..UNBELIEVABLE!!

Like I said, if I was an opposing pitcher, I’d “unintentially” intentially walk him EVERY TIME UP. Not ONE pitch even close to the strike zone. He still wouldn’t take the walk I bet.

By nathan

August 20, 2006 09:52 PM | Link to this

btw: here is a quote from my first post ealier.

“I’ve been “ON” LaRoche just as much as everybody all season.”

So in actuality, it’s you who “can’t read, can you” if you assume I’m a LaRoche “lacky”

By SAL

August 20, 2006 09:52 PM | Link to this

I’m just glad that Cox did not call for the bunt. Either LaRoche did not take his ADD medication (again) or he is an idiot lacking fundamentals. Regardless, you don’t want your hottest hitter bunting with 2 on and no outs especially when the next guy is hiting a ton with runners in scoring position (McCann). I’ll take my chances with LaRoche and McCann swinging away.

Perhaps Thorman should start the next few games at 1B and Bobby can have LaRoche on the bench for when he needs a sacrifice bunt.

By nathan

August 20, 2006 10:00 PM | Link to this

SAL

I love it when people post on these blogs, who have obviously not been paying attention at all.

Thorman was sent down to make room for more pitchers with HoRam out with the injury.

But I’m sure JS will pass the message on to the Richmond manager to have him start at 1B down there.

By David Duncan

August 20, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this

Laroche does not have the intellegience to be a major league baseball player. He screws up more than any major league player that I have ever watched.

By Jeremy

August 20, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this

Power hitters should never bunt because they don’t ever practice it! How often does LaRoche practice bunting compared to say, Langerhans? The fact is that power hitters aren’t good bunters and therefore, shouldn’t bunt. Peace out Bravos fans!

By Brad in KY

August 20, 2006 11:18 PM | Link to this

Reading these posts reminds me of everything that’s wrong about the internet and blogs. No facts, data, coherent thoughts or arguments are to be found. There’s just raw emotion, arrogance, poor grammar, and no logic. In other words, it’s nothing more than a shouting match among anonymous individuals who say disgusting things that they wouldn’t say in an otherwise non-anonymous venue.

Apparently the consensus is that men such as Adam Laroche, Bobby Cox, John Schuerholz et al are characters on a video-game or players in a fantasy game who exist for no other reason than to be traded, released or cursed-at on your petty whim. Since they’re not human they don’t deserve respect, patience, or even thoughtful criticism. I should add that I hope most of you don’t realize that these are real people with real families and real feelings. For if you grant them their humanity and still treat them the way you treat them on this blog (and others), then the situation is even more dire than I initially feared - we cannot even treat with respect other men, the reason being that we know more about baseball than they do. This would be a sad fact indeed.

Now, granting that baseball players, managers, and executives are real people does not entail that they’re beyond criticism. Respect entails that critical remarks are best made in a spirit of humility and charity. Facts are marshalled and presented in a coherent manner. Thoughtful arguments are made. And, of course, we realize that we aren’t always privy to the information necessary to pass judgment. There’s no need for ALL CAPS and !!!!!!! and BOLD everything. Just read all posts carefully and express yourself clearly, thoughfully, and respectfully when you desire to say something.

Of course, I’m not so foolish as to think that many will even read this post…

By Brent

August 20, 2006 11:24 PM | Link to this

^^^^

See what Kentuckians can do!

By Ron Roberts

August 20, 2006 11:29 PM | Link to this

A few thoughts…

If LaRoche were to have swung away (which is what Bobby’s known for letting his guys do - play for the big inning instead of station-to-station baseball), he’d be villified if he’d done anything but hit a double or homer, quite frankly. The guy’s got mad stats, and yet we get boneheads who wanna drag out the ol’ ADD drivel (again). Again, it’s no-win for the man.

The worst-possible scenario came to reality in his bunt attempt; it rarely happens, and yet it did.

Ya wanna point fingers at a player, look at our .326 3rd baseman who hadda chance to bring in the tying run the inning before and whiffed. The Braves had several chances to win this game, not just the 9th. Honestly, I was shocked LaRoche squared to bunt because it didn’t seem like something a Bobby Cox-managed player would do, and yet we read bloggers log on here day-in, day-out, harping on Bobby Cox and the Braves for not playing “small ball.” The one time a guy does, and the same folks are harping on ‘em for playing small-ball.

Hey guys… it’s baseball and ya don’t get to win every game. We took 2 outta 3 from a team that had owned us he past two series, so take some solace in that, alright? Hell, ya wanna be mad at this team, give ‘em a kick to the rear for only splitting in Washington.

By SAL

August 20, 2006 11:38 PM | Link to this

Nathan, surely, you aren’t calling Franklin, Barry, and Cormier pitchers. To have 13 alleged pitchers on a 25 man roster is ridiculus. This is not the AL where you have a DH. Four position players is not a NL bench. Assuming I haven’t slept through other roster changes, there is Pratt, Pena, Orr, and Langerhans on the bench. None are hitting better than about .235 and none have power. WOW!!! This is sure to strike fear in the opposition (almost as much as seeing Ray, Yates, Franklin, Barry, McBride, Paronto, or Cormier warming up).

You are correct in that I don’t pay undivided attention to this group of losers. I did not realize Thorman was sent down. Not surprising that Braves would send down power hitter for more re-treads in the bullpen while keeping the major’s worst bench. But, hey I have a life. You should get one. Sure beats the heck out of watching these flashbacks to the Braves of the 1970’s.

About your observations 1) Your 5th starter sucks regardless of how many runs you may score. Smoltz (has needed major run support himself lately) likes working with McCann. What’s hard to understand?

2) Assuming LaRoche could bunt, he could not beat out a bunt with infield playing back if the bases are at litle league distances. Heck, he probably would forget which direction to run.

If LaRoche hit into a DP, McCann comes up with runner on third and 2 outs. Marlins may not walk him and put winning run on base in 9th. Last time I saw stats, McCann was hitting over .500 in this situation and 1 runs ties the game. I’d take a 50-50 chance compared to what I saw LaRoche do in the 9th.

After LaRoche’s brain cramp, perhaps Cox should have sent Langerhans to hit for Pratt. With McCann on deck, Langerhans may have gotten a good pitch to hit and tie the game.

By cincybravesfan

August 21, 2006 12:00 AM | Link to this

LaRoche is not much on thinking as was shown when he walked to first this season against the Nationals. From what I saw it looked like he was slowing down as he went into first.

He’s a hell of a hitter and a damn good first basemen but he is as thick as a brick when it comes to getting his head in the game. I’m afraid this game was the nail in the coffin.

I can’t pin it all on LaRoche when Cox puts that idiot Yates in to walk the leadoff batter. After the Philidelpia game where we were up 3-1 in the seventh and he walked three batters in arow leading to a seven run innig, why is he still on the team?

It’s sad to see Cox alone in the dugout w/o Leo stalking as if it were ‘77.

By Young

August 21, 2006 12:12 AM | Link to this

Losing teams do what the Braves did in the eighth and ninth inning when there were less than two outs with men in scoring positions. Winning teams do what Jeff did on in the ninth inning. Winning teams will not do what the Braves did in the eighth and ninth inning. Winning teams find ways to win games and losing team find way to throw away games and make excuses then fake or talk about injuries. Braves have their shares of winning, however, this is a losing team if 1966 to the present is considered. The Hawks are the only winning teams Atlanta ever has, unfortunately, losing is catching up with them and by the end of the 2007 season, they too will join the Braves, Falcons and Trashers as losers.

By Doug

August 21, 2006 01:10 AM | Link to this

It’s a tough call. As much as I preach fundamentals on here, I might have made the same one. The object of the game isn’t to bash the ball out of the park, but to get your runners on base into scoring position. I probably would have told LaRoche to sit on a few pitches and if he thought he could get one deep enough to take it … but when he hit 2 strikes to go with the bunt play.

By william in LA

August 21, 2006 01:40 AM | Link to this

Most of you guys guys are still in denial. You refuse to admit the real problem. You want to blame LaRoche when the problem is the manager. I didn’t see the game, but I’ll bet that the Braves were in this tight situation because of the managing of BC. Rememer all the playoff losses? BC will win by 4 or 5 runs or he will lose by 1. He can not manage close games well. It’s crunch time. Why not field your best team? Remember when San Diego knocked us out of the playoffs when BC started the B team? The players have no discipline, and lack fundamentals. Why are you so surprised at LaRoche? When have you seen the Braves in a fight? They mirror their leader. They have no fire. Time for BC to go.

By Jorge

August 21, 2006 02:13 AM | Link to this

Hey williams in LA, you should not have continued after saying this * I didn’t see the game*, because you have no right bash BC because you DIDN’T SEE the game. ‘nuff said.

By Jay

August 21, 2006 06:14 AM | Link to this

This comes as no surprise…Cockroache is a moron. He makes some of the dumbest plays Ive ever seen. He was 3/4 against Borowski, and even if he grounds into a double play, most likely the runner makes it to third.

Par for the course with Cockroache: He’ll be awful one half, hit lights out the other half, and forget to think once a week.

“If I only had a brain…”

By Train Wreck Bystander

August 21, 2006 06:42 AM | Link to this

That was one helluva brain fart by LaRoche.

The shot of Cox in the dugout afterwards was priceless. You could tell he was caught by surprise.

Now add in the Diaz wall collision and you have a lot of comedic relief on SportsCenter today.

I still believe this team will rise to .500 by year end.

By ronald

August 21, 2006 06:55 AM | Link to this

No, Cox did not tell ThaRoach to bunt. He did it on his own. One of the hottest hitters in the game since the all star break. Two on, no one out, one run down. What does he do? He bunts. You never know if he’s going to hit one to mars or pull something stupid like that. Do we need to keep someone like that around?

By greenvegas

August 21, 2006 07:16 AM | Link to this

the bunt was bad enough, the pitiful effort by laroche at the end of the play to get called out was worse. You can not have players like laroche on your team

By mart

August 21, 2006 08:00 AM | Link to this

Can LaRoche’s admirers blame this one on ADD also?

By Ron Roberts

August 21, 2006 08:10 AM | Link to this

If he’d swung away and hit into a double-play, the same people would’ve cursed his name (either out loud or under the breath) as well…

…fundamentally speaking, LaRoche had the right idea, and if Bobby Cox didn’t call for the bunt, he should have.

…fundamentally speaking, if LaRoche hadn’t practiced bunting much (and guys, show up at a game in person a few hours before the game and see batting practice - they all practice bunting first thing in their turns @ the batting cage…something they don’t broadcast on TBS, Turner South or FSN), then Bobby Cox shouldn’t have been managing all these years. That’s like assuming Shaquile O’Neal never practices free throws ‘cause the guy’s only marginal at it. He practices ‘em every day.

LaRoche wasn’t thinking swing for the fences, folks… he was thinking win the game. Refreshing if ya ask me.

I’m sorry, I like Bobby Cox, hope he’s around for 5 more seasons with the young talent on this squad, but the bonehead was Cox not calling for the bunt to begin with.

Actually, in hindsight, Borowski wasn’t exactly nailing the strike zone… I might’ve had everybody taking til he showed me he could throw a low-count strike, first.

By KC

August 21, 2006 08:19 AM | Link to this

LaRoche was trying to be unselfish and do whatever it takes to win the game. Right motivation, wrong decision. It’s done… nothing anyone can do about it now. He’s not likely to make the same mistake again. Simple as that.

By Anderson

August 21, 2006 08:29 AM | Link to this

LaRoche has got to be the dimmest bulb in all of baseball. I know he has ADD…remember a few games ago it was two outs and the ball was hit to him and instead of simply going to first base, he threw it to a surprised Renteria for a double-play (four-out inning). He alone costs the Braves about 2-3 victories a year. He is really trying Bobby Cox’s patience.

By Aaron S

August 21, 2006 08:44 AM | Link to this

There was nothing wrong with A-La’s bunt except the execution. As they say, there are several more ways to score from third than from second. You have to tie the game before you can win the game. Honestly, I believe Bobby’s management style in these situations is the main reason we have only 1 World Series. The reason we will be watching the playoffs this year is NOT LaRoche’s fault. Relief pitcher’s getting sent out to the mound day after day after day when they clearly cannot do the job. There has been MANY times this year I’ve watched a game with the blank look on my face like Bobby had yesterday after the LaRoche bunt. The bottom line is - Bobby is satisfied with winning 2 out of 3 in every series. Play to win today - worry about tomorrow - tomorrow.

By mike p

August 21, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this

I am a high school coach, and I know that it is different than the pros, but bunting was the RIGHT decision. Do not blame Cox for this loss. Our starters and bullpen both gave us a chance to win this game, unfortunately it came down to execution. Coaches can put players in position to execute, but the execution comes down to the players. Laroche simply did not execute. That lack of execution cost the Braves the game.

It seems that every time the Braves lose a game, many of you want to blame Bobby Cox. I do not think that Bobby makes all of the right decisions, BUT I do know that Bobby puts his players in a position to win the game if they execute. That is all a manager/coach can do at any level. Put your players in a position to win. It is up to the players to execute. The Braves have lost many games due to lack of execution. That falls on the players, not the manager.

Hopefully the Braves will build off of winning the series on the road and sweep the Bucs at home. The schedule has aligned well with the Bucs for 3, the Nats for 3, and then the Giants. The Braves SHOULD be able to sweep the Bucs with Smoltz, Oscar, and Huddy, and then take 2 of 3 from the Bats with Chucky, Cormier, and Smoltz. Take 2 more from the Giants with Oscar, Huddy, and Chucky. If they can win 7 out of 9 at home, I will like our position heading into September. With 2 bad teams, and an average team coming to the Ted for NINE games, this homestand is DO OR DIE time. The Braves are longshots right now, but this homestand will either eliminate them, or put them into contention for the last month.

Go Bravos! A few people still believe!

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 08:58 AM | Link to this

I’m surprised Cox didn’t defend his player in this situation. It’s unlike him to say something like “I don’t know what he was thinking.”

I agree it was a stupid play, but I doubt it made the difference. If he gets it down, the Braves still have a good chance to score at least one of those runs, maybe both. If he swings away and hits into a double play, people are on this message board writing he should have bunted.

While I don’t like the play and absolutely despise the “small-ball” philosophy, I understand the play.

By Ken

August 21, 2006 09:02 AM | Link to this

I did not get to see yesterday’s game but when I saw the box score it did not shock me to see Yates was the losing pitcher. That guy is terrible. Sure he throws 95 mph but has no idea where it it going when it leaves his hand. As far as the bunt, if he gets it down right and the Braves win he is the hero. If not he is the goat. If he swings and gets a hit he is the hero. If not, he is the goat. Unfortunately, the Braves have had a lot of goats this year.

By KC

August 21, 2006 09:11 AM | Link to this

The good news:

Another solid start for Cormier (he actually pitched even better in his previous start than the box score would indicate).

Cormier gave up the bomb in the 6th, but overall he stood toe to toe with D-Train, and did pretty well. He kept the team in the game, and what more can you ask of a AAA call-up?

So far, we’ve had 3 starts from this Cormier/Villareal combination, and all three have been good starts. That is definitely encouraging. If we can keep getting quality starts out of these guys, we’re gonna win more of their starts than we lose, and that will help our cause a great deal.

Other good news…. The Pirates are in town.

By bob

August 21, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

Well,never thought I’d live to see it. A Brave dumber than Chipper.

By SRF

August 21, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

Why is Yates still getting a paycheck ?

He should be a physical therapist since helping people WALK is his true talent.

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this

Ken,

Well said about the bunt. In my opinion it’s a bad play, but I don’t think it made the difference in the game. Maybe he swings away and gets a hit, maybe he swings away and hits into a double play. Who knows? Obviously we have the benefit of hindsight and know the bunt didn’t work out.

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this

Bob,

Maybe you’ve seen Chipper’s grades or an IQ test or something, but all I know is he’s a great hitter.

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this

SRF,

Can you believe there were frequent visitors to this blog who actually said Yates could be a great pitcher?

By KC

August 21, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this

Not only is Chipper a great hitter, but he’s a pretty damned smart hitter as well. Anyone who calls Chipper “dumb” doesn’t sound all that smart themselves (or at least certainly not very observant).

By Charlie

August 21, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this

Every 15 years or so, things just don’t go your way!

By Fan since 57

August 21, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this

Something is wrong with LaRockhead. He didn’t even seem to run out the bunt. This guy does not seem to understand the game or the concept of hustle. Do teams do IQ tests on players?

By Walt

August 21, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

Bob Cox has never stressed fundanmentals, especially bunting. How many times like yesterday the attempted bunt goes for an out or in this case a double play. The pitching staff should be practing bunting daily.

By Walt

August 21, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

Bob Cox has never stressed fundanmentals, especially bunting. How many times like yesterday the attempted bunt goes for an out or in this case a double play. The pitching staff should be practing bunting daily.

By Rex

August 21, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this

Never mind the bunt…. WHY DIDN’T HE RUN HARD TO FIRST?? …. NO EXCUSE FOR NOT HUSTLING ….

By C. Gillespie

August 21, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this

The Braves organization has been “Time(d) out” since Time Warner purchased the team. Even bringing back loud mouth Ted Turner should help the team improve.

By J Heat

August 21, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

Give Laroche a break. I dont know how many times i have watched to the Braves this year and the selfish play of everyone on that team who would not bunt a guy over or hit it to the right side to get a man to third. I dont care if your Chipper Jones, Andrew Jones or Barry Bonds…baseball is still a team sport…you have got to get runners over, period!!Bobby Cox and Chipper can blast laroche in the papers for not swinging away in the 9th yesterday but had they been more unselfish this year in general…this particular game would not have been so important! im still waiting for Francouer and Chipper to lay down successful sacrifices and then they can talk instead of hitting into dps and popping up harmlessly as the usual result. Play together boys! Were running out of time!!!!

By W Lyons

August 21, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

The truth is, LaRoche is a pretty arrogant fellow. He tells fans who boo him when he lollygags down to first not to cheer him when he’s doing well. (Like that’s his call - when people can boo or cheer him.) Laying down a bunt without the boss’s OK is just arrogant, too, regardless of the game situation.

Rochey won’t be playing for the Braves next year - he’s just not a Bobby Cox-kind of player.

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this

Bob Cox has never stressed fundanmentals, especially bunting. How many times like yesterday the attempted bunt goes for an out or in this case a double play. The pitching staff should be practing bunting daily.

I love the speculation here. Do we have any idea what the Braves do in spring training or during practices?

By bigbaddawg

August 21, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this

How long will the Braves put up with this guy? Last year in the playoffs, he coasted to third on a single to the outfield, that potentially cost the Braves a game. Earlier this year, he walks to first and gets beat by a runner, then this.

By Rodger

August 21, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this

good one, SRF

By Dave

August 21, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

Have scanned the various comments about LaRoche bunting, let me add my 2 cents.

1) Adam did the unselfish thing by trying to move the runners into scoring position. Had he pushed it down the 3rd baseline, he would have had a bunt single (even with his slow speed) because NO ONE expected him to bunt. Bases would then be loaded with ZERO out and McCann batting! All in all, a pretty smart play, except that he did not bunt it far enough. Guess what?? That happens in baseball ALL THE TIME! If he had swung away and hit into a double play, everyone would be villifying him for not bunting. As at least one poster has said, LaRoche cannot win unless he get a hit or a homer!

2) The Braves went 4-3 on the road. Normally, ANY manager is happy with a 4-3 road trip, except that the Braves are 5.5 games behind with only about 40 games left. The Braves know they need to go on a long winning streak this home stand (8-1 or 7-2), which means they need to sweep at least one of the series. With Pittsburgh, Washington and SF coming in town, this is defnitely feasible, but they HAVE to make it happen!!

3) If the Braves do manage to get into the playoffs, they have as good a chance to make the World Series as any of the division champs. No team in the NL West or Central is particularly intimidating, and the NY Mets need their frontline pitching to be competitive. With Glavine’s season (and possible career) in doubt and given Pedro’s injury status, the Mets are at best a 50-50 chance to make the World Series.

4) You have to wonder if Glavine EVER regrets going to the Mets for what was a relatively small amount of more money (which he lost to the MUCH higher tax rates he pays in NY). He is at 287 career wins. You have to believe that, had he stayed and pitched with the Braves in 2003 thru 2005, he would have won 13 more games with those Braves teams than he did with the NY Mets. Oh well, he made his bed; now he gets to sleep in it.

Just my humble opinion!

By Kentavo

August 21, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this

Cox’s “assignments” remind me of corporate bosses that just plug in anyone (worker bee) in any situation regardless of that worker’s particular skill set.

By Rodger

August 21, 2006 10:13 AM | Link to this

The bunt, although not executed very well, really wasn’t that bad an idea (tho it would have been nice if the runner on second was in on it!). The problem was LaRoche’s lack of hustle to first. Long developing play, should have never have been able to go home-third-first for a dp, but…

I dont know how many times this year I’ve seen us give away outs from not hustling to first!

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 10:13 AM | Link to this

The truth is, LaRoche is a pretty arrogant fellow. He tells fans who boo him when he lollygags down to first not to cheer him when he’s doing well. (Like that’s his call - when people can boo or cheer him.) Laying down a bunt without the boss’s OK is just arrogant, too, regardless of the game situation.

Again, speculation. We must have some people who know LaRoche pretty well and know he’s arrogant.

I agree that LaRoche bunting was the wrong decision. I understand why he did it—having runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out is probably better than having them on 1st and 2nd with no outs, particularly with the bottom of the order due up. If LaRoche swings away and hits into a double play, people criticize him. If the bunt works and the two runners score, he’s seen as an unselfish player.

By KC

August 21, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

W lyons: Gonna have to disagree with you there. LaRoche strikes me a very humble (not arrogant) person. Certainly, his attempting that bunt was a humble move. It was the wrong move, but one that showed humility and the correct motivation.

And I flat out disagree with the lolly gags comment. As I see it, he plays hard (and well).

By sam galloway

August 21, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

larroches vaule is up doe to his hot second half. trade him this winter for pitching. he is a head case and i fear always will be. this is the second game he has given away. remember the slow walk to tag 1st base?

By Dan

August 21, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this

Bunting was the right call, but the player has to be able to bunt a strike right down the middle. He also did not give 100% hustle. If he had he would have beat it out. Ya! LaRoche was on a hot streak but you still have to ecacute. I’ll bet that he goes into a slump because of his failure.

By realistgrod

August 21, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this

Sorry Braves fans WAH WAH WAH. Stop crying. We have had a great run for the past 15 years. I think there is a better chance of Hell Freezing over before we make the playoffs. It just isn’t in the cards. The truth of the matter is that even though we are supposed to be the superior team, we are only 2 games better than the Triple A Marlins and their $15M payroll! Embarrassing! Time to rebuild.

By rick

August 21, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

It’s bad enough Laroche decides to bunt but did anyone see he stood there to see if it was fair instead of hustling and then at first base he he pitty-pats his way to the base.

By KC

August 21, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this

Yesterday’s loss was diappointing, but the Pirates are in town now. A little 6-of-7 winning stretch would be nice.

Hey guess what folks… The Braves rotation is looking pretty good again. Show me a better rotation on the top side (1-3) in the NL. If, Andy Pettitte can follow Hudson’s lead, snap out of his funk, and start consistently delivering for the Astros… they can certainly match up with the Braves’ rotation 1-3, but that’s it.

The Dodgers are looking good at the top of their rotation, but with Hudson on his game, I like Smoltz/Hudson better than Penny/Lowe. And while (over the last couple of years) Maddux has gotten on some great rolls like the one he’s on now for 3-4 weeks at a time, he’s been unable to consistently deliver at this level over a sustained period of time. I’m not saying he won’t do it… just that it remains to be seen. One of the first things to go when great pitchers reach the end of their careers is the ability to sustain top-notch performance as they used to.

Anyway, right now I would take the top of the Braves rotation over any in the NL. And if we continue to get quality starts from Cormier and Villareal, the Braves will be above .500 and knocking at the door of the Wild Card very soon.

By bobbo

August 21, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this

why wasn’t diaz bunting with a man on second and no outs, then let laroche and mcann come up with a man on third and one out

By Dave from Chattanooga

August 21, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

When Yates strolled in I told a room full of people that you were about to see Yates “LOSE THE BALLGAME.” I K N E W it was going to happen. I had Z E R O doubt. Bobby? Wake up. You had to know. I will never understand why a guy like that (or Reitsma) who is INCAPABLE of throwing strikes is even IN that position. Unpardonable. It may well have been the final nail in the coffin.

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

bobbo,

Probably because the runner on second was only the tying run, so they still needed another baserunner when Diaz was up.

By bobbo

August 21, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

but wouldn’t you just go for the tie at that point. I understand the braves need a win, but wouldn’t you just try to extend the game, especially since a guy like diaz handles the bat well?

By KC

August 21, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

realistgrod:

Are you just trying to be sensationalistic… or do you really believe that crap?? Or maybe you’re a Mets fan posing as a Braves fan?

The Braves have as good an offense as there is in the NL. They are as good a defensive team as there is in baseball. The bullpen is solid. The top of this rotation is as good as any in the league, and even the 4/5 starters are coming through.

In short, this team is capable (barring any further key injuries) of playing .650-700 baseball the rest of the way. That would likely be enough to get the job done and win the Wild Card.

It may not happen, but to say “there is a better chance of Hell Freezing over” is just plain ignorant.

By bravesfan

August 21, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

all this current team needs is seasoning. not playing in post season should make some of them wake up. go columbus! in the little league world series.

By bobbo

August 21, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

I agree with you KC, all the pieces r there, I will question your assertion of a solid bullpen, baez and wickman are. Besides that i agree with you, but they have shown us time and time again they can’t get the job done, whether it’s Bobby putting out a triple a lineup, or la roche making one of his A.D.D. mistakes, or all the other inconsistencies, you cant really believe this team will do that. The pieces are there, but there isn’t enough heart or brains to get it done this year. The braves have fooled me once this year that they were good, it on’t happen again. This team for whatever reason , can’t get the job done.

By Jason S.

August 21, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

Everyone needs to understand that, despite Bobby Cox’s ability to mess up a game, this one was definitely NOT his fault for the following reasons: 1) He did NOT tell Laroche to bunt. 2) Laroche bunted badly. That’s not an option when the guy you’re moving over isn’t anticipating a bunt. 3) Laroche watched the bunt for several steps instead of digging for first base. (Find a replay. It is pathetic.) 4) Laroche, seeing the throw go to third base, pulls up BEFORE getting to the first base bag. (Again, check a replay.)

One other point - had the bunt worked, the Marlins would NOT have walked Langerhans had Cox sent him up with one out and men on 2nd and 3rd. They would have pitched to him with the outfielders drawn in, knowing that Mac is the next would-be batter. (And short of a double, they would have kept the score at least tied and THEN have a place to put Mac on.

By KC

August 21, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this

bobbo:

I didn’t say the bullpen was perfect, or even “fantastic”… just that it’s solid. That said… Let me point out that Wickman and Baez aren’t the only things we have going for us in the pen.

Chad Paronto has a 2.55 and has allowed an earned run in only 1 of his last 11-12 outings. And Macay McBride is very effective as a left handed situational specialist (left-handed hitters are batting .177 against him).

By michael

August 21, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this

How much longer is the Braves going to put up with Yates. This is about 7 games in which I have watched come with the Braves leading or tied in which he had given up the lead. He need to be buried in the bullpen or released.

Michael

By Stretcheezy

August 21, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this

The Braves lost this game in the 1st inning! Bases loaded and NO outs…and all they get is a FAT PRATT double play!

Im really sick of this group. One day they hit, one day they pitch. The Joneses play well for a game, then sleep the next 2 or 3.

McCann is steady. He’s the only continuity ive seen this year. And i really hope to see Diaz start the rest of the season.

I mean if you really look at the Braves lineup, they are just as good as the Yankees!

There are 3 guys with more that 20 homers. A catcher with an around 350 batting average. And it seems like Pete Orr wants to be a leadoff hitter. He’s got some speed as well.

They are striking out at an alarming rate with/without RISP. So what can a team do? They have a legitamit setup/closer tandem, but when you cant score any runs, what can they do but sit and rot away in the bullpen.

Whats the deal with Aybar??? Anyone know? And Bobby Cox….WHY TYLER YATES?????

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

bobbo,

You aren’t “supposed to” play for a tie on the road. Even if you are, the runner was already in scoring position so why bunt him to third? At least with LaRoche’s play, he was attempting to bunt the go-ahead run into scoring position.

Like I said, I disagree with LaRoche’s play and am not a fan of “smallball,” but I understand the decision.

By bobbo

August 21, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

u are right about paronto, but i ask you to actually check he and mcbrides bb/inn stats and also there inherited runners allowed to score. E.R.A. is a truly misleading stat for a reliever, they need to come in and put out the fire, for instance paronto comes into a game, with two men on he gives up two hits those two score , and then gets an out only allowing the two men already on to score, therefore recording an “outing” without allowing a run, when he clearly showed no ability to stop the bleeding or get big outs, something he and mcbride have done all year

By Dave from Chattanooga

August 21, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

This game was lost the MOMENT that Fat-A*, Can’t Throw A Strike Tyler Yates entered. He should be AT BEST a AA ballplayer working towards the majors. If you can’t throw strikes … you can’t pitch high school ball, period.

By swamprat

August 21, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

Adam has a good glove and bat but his mental lapses offset his productivity. The bunt was not his first bonehead play of the season in a critical situation. Good guy, but replace him.

By bobbo

August 21, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

Paronto 41 hits and 17 walks in 42 inn. thats not good folks

Mcbride 33 hits 26 walks in only 38 inn those numbers are a joke and only 22 k’s more walks then K’s is a joke for a major league reliever

By learnedhand05

August 21, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

The problem with LaRouche was execution, not the decision to bunt.

Based on what I’ve seen all season long, I fully expected him to swing away and hit into a double play.

Everyone else was expecting a swing as well. Therefore, his decision had an element of surprise, and had he got down a good bunt, he most likely would have loaded the bases due to the positioning on the infielders.Fundamental baseball folks.

Get’em on, get’em over, and get’em in. That’s the essence of baseball at any level.It is not get’em on, go for the 3-run homer.

I’m not a big LaRouche fan at all, but in this case, I can only be upset at the poor attempt to bunt. The Braves had other opportunities to win this game and didn’t get it done. Maybe if they had attempted to play small-ball earlier in the game, they would have been in a better position come the 9th.

I wish those who feel the decision to bunt was wrong, would tell us why instead of offering anger and insult.

By journalist PENN

August 21, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

Let’s call a spade a spade.

LaRoche can field his position and he can hit .270 with lots of home runs but when it comes to THINKING he is simply STUPID.

By KC

August 21, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this

bobbo:

I have to disagree with the assertion that this team doesn’t have the heart or the brains to get it done this year. This team has plenty of heart and wants to win just as badly as us fans want to see them win… probably more.

As far as the “brains”, who are the stupid players on this team? LaRoche has made a couple of mental mistakes that were only so glaring because they were costly. Doesn’t mean he isn’t a smart player, and it certainly doesn’t mean that he isn’t a good player. He is absolutely helping this team win.

I see where you’re coming from… this team has all the talent, so why haven’t they been able to put it together? That’s a fair question, but it doesn’t have anything to do with the heart or intelligence of the team. The answer to that question is multi-faceted.

1-The Bullpen: It’s fixed now, but not before an awful lot of damage was done to this team’s chances. This point has been driven into the ground, but the fact of the matter is that if we had Baez and Wickman from the beginning of the season, we would still be very much in the pennant race, and firmly in the lead of the Wild Card race.

2-Injuries: Hampton, Boyer, Foster… out for entire season. HoRam, between both DL stints, is missing more than half of season. Chipper has been in and out of the lineup. Andruw hasn’t missed much time, but has been hindered by nagging injuries.

3-Underperformance: Hudson’s 7 week slide hurt the team tremendously, as did the total meltdown of Chris Reitsma early in the season (even if not the closer, he was supposed to be a key part of the pen).

Anyway, it’s not too late. Especially when all of the teams in the wild card race are .500 teams through and through. The Braves have a mediocre record because they have underachieved (for the reasons listed above). All the other .500-or-so teams in the NL (with the exception of the Astros) have the records they have because they did play up to their potential.

There are 39 games remaining. The Braves are very capable of winning 5 more of their remaining games than the Reds, and 3 more than all the other teams in the WC race. In fact (barring more injuries), I’ll be a little surprised if they don’t.

By RobertH

August 21, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this

I don’t understand why some people keep thinking LaRoche’s bunt was the right idea but poorly executed. Even an alleged HS coach in an earlier post. OK…if that’s what you think, try and explain again to me whi it is a good idea in that situation to take the bat out of the hands of your hottest hitter (LaRoche) AND your best hitter (McCann). First and second, no one out, and you have LaRoche and then McCann PH for Pratt. Instead, even with a successful bunt, McCann gets walked, then you have Langerhans and Orr. OK you baseball geniuses who think it was the right decision, tell me again why you want Langerhans and Orr up with the game on the line instead of LaRoche and McCann. Tell me why that’s the smart call.

By KC

August 21, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

LaRoche’s bunt attempt was a bad decision. That said, cut him a little slack. He was trying to catch them napping and move the tying and go-ahead runs into scoring position. It was a team-oriented decision on LaRoche’s part. Just so happened to be the wrong decision. Rest assured, he won’t make the same mistake again. Let’s close the book on it… whadya say?

By Terry Logan

August 21, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this

Get off his case. If he gets the ball down the third base side and surprises Cabrerra and gets a base hit everyone says he is a genius. If its just a sac we have two runners in scoring position with one out. It wasn’t a bad decision just bad execution.

By sammy miller

August 21, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this

If Laroach grows his hair out like Michael Vick and myself, The Sammy Miller, then even if he tried to bunt his strength from his hair would have made the ball fly over the fence for a three run shot! Enough said!……We need Chuck Norris more than ever right now to get us to the playoffs!

By Jim

August 21, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

My problem with LaRoach this time is he quit running when if he had continued to run he would have beat it out. Another lapse? His ADD seems to come into play every time the game is on the line.

By Jorge

August 21, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this

Hey, William in LA, if you didn’t see the game, it would be wise to not speak of what you know nothing about, at least as it relates to Sunday’s game. If you want to speak out in this forum, have the decency to at least know what you are talking about! If you didn’t see the game, stay on the porch.

By ATLER

August 21, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this

This is just an example of the luck that this team has. What in the world was Laroche thinking. And I see everyone wants to make Frenchy a national hero now. PLEASE that’s just one freaking game and you guys are jumping to conclusions again and setting yourselves up for failure. The next blog you’ll be making excuses for old Frenchy.

By beachcomber

August 21, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

This dog gone work interferes with reading the blog and I’m a few hours behind. Had to comment on the “dumb Chipper” remark. I used to follow another “dumb” player in my very early years - his name was Berra. Yogi’s saving some wall space for the other dumb guy up in that hall in central New York. Speaking of New York reminds me of the Mick. He was a great bunter. Why can’t anybody but pitchers and middle infielders bunt today?

By Train Wreck Bystander

August 21, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

Y’all are just too rough on LaRoche.

If he had pulled it off, the World Series Bandwagon would be rolling at full steam.

Sure, he’s a flake. But it’s not like that play was the end of the world.

By Bobo

August 21, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this

LaRoche was trying his best to win. Lets get off his case.The word BUNT is not in Bobby Cox’s Vocabulary. If LaRoche had got it down who knows what may have happen and he may have been the Hero. The Braves have more problems than one play.

By realistgrod

August 21, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this

KC. Please buddy. I DESPISE THE METS. I hope they lose Glavin and Pedro for the rest of the year. But don’t be ignorany. The top of the rotation is Smoltz. Hudson hasn’t done squat except for the last couple of starts - one against the lowly Marlins. The offense is solid, but the pitching is mediocre at best, I will take the Phillies bullpen over the Braves any day of the week. I am a huge Braves fan, but let’s get real here. Braves do not win Wild Card period. Look for Reds, Astros, Diamondbacks, or Phillies to do it. Simply put, the Pitching isn’t quite there. Like I said Hell Freezes over - Mark my words.

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

Bobo,

It’s stupid to waste out with bunts in most situations. In almost every situation you decrease your scoring chances by sac bunting. Obviously the value of a sacrifice depends on the game situation, the scoring potential of the team, the batter, who’s up next, etc.

I do think that this was a good situation for a bunt. I don’t know if LaRoche was the right guy to execute a bunt.

I don’t think it’s a bad think that Cox doesn’t bunt much, I mean look at how many runs we’ve scored and that’s with Jeff “Out Machine” Francouer getting more plate appearances than anybody.

By Zig

August 21, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

I am still greatly confused of his decision making skills recectly. I am starting to believe that he didn’t pay attention to his coaches in little league where you learn not to do stupid stuff like that. In my opinion it was as bad as when he fielded a ground ball at first and let an opposing player beat him to the base. Why is he still playing? Will somebody please answer that question

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

I don’t thing it’s a bad think that Cox doesn’t bunt much, I mean look at how many runs we’ve scored and that’s with Jeff “Out Machine” Francouer getting more plate appearances than anybody.

The offense is fine. It’s pitching and luck that have been the Braves downfall.

Best I can tell, LaRoche bunting was the wrong move but I don’t think it was obviously clear that it was the wrong move.

By wjk

August 21, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

No…Numnutz decided to bunt on his own. Remember, He is not the brightest crayon in the box.

In addition he did not hustle down to first…. (does he ever?) Did he know that he had “pooped it up “(3 ft) and the first play was to 3rd?

Bush league baseball!

By Mike Farr

August 21, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this

If a run had scored there wouldn’t even be all this ruckus. I thought it was a gutsy play. With a hot hitter up to bat in that situation it was probably something they weren’t looking for, give the guy a break.

By bobbo

August 21, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

KC,

U make some very good poijts but I still believe heart and intelligence is what this team lacks. Hudson’s slide is all about making the proper adjustments and being abls to gut it out when times were tough. Laroch’s continous lackadasical play is nothing but mental, he is a terriffic player im my eyes, but the lolly gag play earlier in the season, and now the “bunt heard round the world” im not concerned with the bunt but the effort down the line was poor. Chippers nagging injuries all season long, maybe he should of spent more time coming off an injury riddled year last year working on his body in spring training then playing for team usa, im very patriotic but dont get me wrong but the braves fans are suffering because of his choice. And of course frenchy’s smarts, c;mon the kid has a lot to learn and either is being told to continue hitting .250 with his style or just isn’t listening, this is what im referring to when I say theis team has no heart or intelligence, it’s about fgrinding out one run games, getting those last two outs as a pitcher when your arm is toast for the good of the team , these braves dont have leadership,smarts,or heart and thats why talented teams finish below .500

By Joe

August 21, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this

Florida’s pretty much owned the Braves this season. Taking 2 of 3 down there was a job well done. This nine game home stand should pretty much give us an idea of where the team is going, if anywhere at all. Pittsburgh, Washington & SF are all beatable. Atlanta is going to have to take at least seven of these games before going into a tough September.

By Jerry Frasier

August 21, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this

Relief pitching for the Braves has been pitiful over the years, but relative to the times tried, the Braves attempts to bunt has been worse. I wonder if they ever practice this part of the game that is learned well by little leaguers. My suggestion in the future is to hit away or play for a walk.

By Jack

August 21, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

I believe this was a good fundamental play.

You play for a tie on the road, and the lead at home.

It is terribly unfair to bring up LaRoche’s ADD, right now.

It is more appropiate to bring up the fact that his father was a major leaguer.

LaRoche’s play was an old school play that wouldn’t have been questioned fifteen years ago. In the past many a power hitter has been criticized for not being able to lay down a bunt in a bunt situation.

This was a bunt situation and La Roche did the right thing.

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

Jack,

You have that backwards: you play for the tie at home, the win on the road. You have the last at-bat at home so if you’re tied, you have the edge.

By Jack

August 21, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

One more thing. I am very disappointed in the Braves for speaking out against LaRoche’s play.

LaRoche was obviously trying to win, and they shouldn’t have cried in the press.

I hope a manager who appreciates LaRoche and what he was trying to do, makes an overt attempt to get him. Obviously Cox doesn’t appreciate him. And LaRoche is going to be a superstar within the next couple of years.

By KC

August 21, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

bobbo:

McBride’s value is as a guy you bring in to get a lefty out, and then you yank him right back out. The overall numbers you quoted for McBride are not good… I agree with that. But if you use him as a left-handed situational specialist, and nothing more… he’s quite good. That .177 opposing AVG by left-handed hitters speaks for itself.

Your point is well taken on the reliability of ERA to tell the whole story for a reliever. You make an excellent point. That said, you can still be sure that if a guy has posted an ERA of 2.55 after 42 innings of work, he’s a quality reliever. And 41 hits in 42 innings is not bad at all… not for the kind of pitcher he is. Paronto’s a contact, ground-ball pitcher. He’s going to give up hits. The key with a guy like that is that most of those hits are singles, and he’s generally able to pitch out of it.

Bob Wickman has pitched 39 innings allowing 37 hits and 11 walks. Not a big difference there, and I think we’ll all agree that Wickman is an effective reliever.

Point being… Paronto is a valuable part of this bullpen, and there’s always a place for a guy who can get lefties out, like McBride.

By johnny

August 21, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

I ask again, who is running the Braves==seems like to me Laroche needs a kick in the behind, Bubting is one thing==but look at the replay==as usual==he did not hustle down the line. I always thought that Johnny Essrada was the slowest runner I have ever seen in baseball,==then along comes what is his name, the so call player who plays 1st base for the Braves. I agree, the game is over when Yates comes into the game. another Reisdtma, and Kolb, Hey what did I do wrong. Johnny in Va

By Jack

August 21, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

Shaun, you are 100% right. And maybe it might have been a good idea to try to hit it to the right side, with good speed on second base.

A good can prevent a lot of bad things from happening. It was the percentage play in this situation, and I agree with LaRoche’s gutsy move.

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

Jerry,

If you look at the numbers, the relief pitching hasn’t been that bad except for the past couple of years. Everyone remembers a couple of playoff homers and thinks the relief pitching is the reason for the post-season troubles. Actually it was the offense more than anything in the post-season. If you look at the numbers closely, you’ll see the bullpen actually pitched better than the starters in the post-season.

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

LaRoche’s Bunt Likely Wasn’t the Difference

I wouldn’t have bunted, but I doubt it would have made a difference. Even if LaRoche swings, the odds are probably against him getting on-base. If he bunts successfully, I don’t know if it increases the chances to take the lead. Maybe.

By RRR

August 21, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

Face it, sometimes Adam makes huge blunders. >Bunting in this game was not the only one >either. Trying to stretch that single into a >double also cost us a run.

By Jeffrey

August 21, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

Bobby Cox will be the death of me. How many games have we blown in the 7th inning trying to get to Baez in the 8th and Wickman in the 9th? Could he possibly consider using Baez for 2 innings as he did once last week? Everything is so by the book with him and the book should be burned.

LaRoche seems to be a basket case this year. His lazy play at first and now his stupid bunt combined with pathetic numbers at home all but assure he will be elsewhere next year.

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

Yeah, how dare we keep LaRoche. He’s made two “bad” plays in his 114 games this year.

I’m not defending LaRoche, but good God! Get over it! It’s one questionable play that was understandable. And he didn’t hustle one play. Look at LaRoche’s overall production.

By KC

August 21, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

Jeffrey:

Dude, get a life. LaRoche has made some costly mental mistakes this year, but that has nothing to do with a lack of playing hard or wanting to win. LaRoche has helped this team a whole helluva lot more than he’s hurt it.

Just as it is said that a play that saves a run is the same as an RBI… maybe for a play that costs a run, you should subtract an RBI. So fine. Take a few RBI away from LaRoche for the bad plays. Heck, take 7 or 8 even. Then you have to add a number of them back on for all the great grabs he’s made at 1st to save throwing errors for other infielders. Add all the RBI generated by his HR’s and extra-base hits.

When you finish you will find one of the better 1st baseman in the league.

By Robert

August 21, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

What LaRoche was doing was trying to advance the runners.

You know. Manufacture a run (or two)

Foreign concepts to the donkey managing the team

Yes, his bunt attempt failed and the Braves lost the game. But if they did more of this kind of thing, they’d win more games in the long run

Give us long suffering Braves fans hope for the future. Fire Bobby Cox. TODAY!!!!!!!!

By kevin a

August 21, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

LaRoche’s bunt was just plain dumb but what bothers me more is him standing there and watching the bunt followed by his loafing into first. Brings back memories of him loafing around third in the playoffs last year. The guy has talent but is an absolute mental case who needs to be told what to do at all times. He should be told what to do before every bat, etc. His habit of loafing in the field and at the plate would not be tolerated on most to tier teams.

By Robert

August 21, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this

“The funny thing is that the people who are critical of Bobby in a loss are never as quick to give credit for a win”

I’ve been a Braves fan for 19 years. I’ve watched Cox personally destroy three World Series, several other playoff series, and innumerable regular season games

I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I have seen a Cox move directly result in a Braves win

Cox would be totally outclassed as a manager by any of the guys coaching in the Little League World Series (and probably by half the kids playing as well)

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

Robert,

“Manufacturing” runs would lead to less runs as opposed to more runs. It’s stupid to use up outs trying to gain one base at a time.

By Dale

August 21, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

LaRoche is French for Doo-Fuss.

Get rid of him and get Carl Crawford for 2007.

By KC

August 21, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

Robert:

I too have been a Braves fan for about 20 years, and I have missed very games over those 20 years. All I can say is, you and I must have been watching different ball games.

If you listen to the people that have been around MLB for 30, 40, or 50 years, you will hear nothing but respect and admiration for Bobby Cox as a manager. But then… what they hell do they know.

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

Crawford’s available? Who would we have to give up to get him? And who’s going to play first?

By NLCHAMPS

August 21, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

I guess you all heard by now about Glavines possible clot. I was wondering how much sympathy was there for the guy in braves nations.

By KC

August 21, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

Shaun P:

Anyone’s available for the right price, but the D-Rays don’t appear to be in any hurry to unload him. We would have to give up quite a bit in return to get him… Probably Thorman or Salty, and a couple of mid-level prospects… at least.

“Who’s going to play first?” Huh??? LaRoche is going to play 1st. He’s got a couple more years before he’s eligible for free agency.

By ALAN

August 21, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this

When Adam LaRoche thinks, he hurts the team. I’ll take Wilson Betemit over his sorry @#$ anyday.

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

KC,

I was actually responding to a previous post. I was trying to prove a point that we’d have to give up too much to get Crawford, as you point out, and LaRoche is our best option at first.

By KC

August 21, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

Shaun P:

Sorry, didn’t read all the earlier posts.

By KC

August 21, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

Okay Allen… let’s compare Betemit’s numbers to LaRoche’s in a couple of years and see if you’re correct. I suspect you’re not.

I’m personally kind of glad to have his sorry 30-HR, 100-RBI, Gold-glove fielding @@s on this team myself.

By TDF

August 21, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

Maybe someone also already mentioned this, but LaRoche is the same guy who “zoned out” against the Nationals on May 14 and didn’t beat the runner to first on a routine grounder. The guy has ADD or something - he occasionally just doesn’t focus on the situation and think things through. If I were him I’d be looking into this as a medical problem.

By Shaun P

August 21, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

I love to hear people criticize a player or say we should get rid of him or we should get so-and-so, and they don’t offer up any better options.

I agree with criticizing LaRoche for not hustling earlier in the season or bunting in that situation, but LaRoche is productive and cheap. For the money, he’s one of the better firstbase options in the game.

By Jim Baylen

August 21, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

Gutsy but wrong time and place.

By KC

August 21, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

TDF:

You are correct. Adam LaRoche is taking medication for ADD. I was one of the first kids in the state of Georgia to be diagnosed with ADD many years ago when no one had ever heard of such a thing. I don’t find it to be much of an issue in my life anymore, but then again I’m not in the kind of situation (like LaRoche) where the slightest mental lapse can be so costly. Even with medication, you can still be more prone to mental lapses than the average person.

All I can say is that any comments that suggest that LaRoche is lazy, doesn’t care, is stupid, or doesn’t want to win are based on total ignorance.

By beachcomber

August 21, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

KC - Great post born out of first hand knowledge. My wife teaches quite a few ADD kids and would agree with everything you say. On your other post, I’m not quite as anxious as you to canonize Bobby Cox.More than a few post season moves have been inexplicable. But he’s probably history in two years at the most. Who fills those shoes? I don’t see his successor coming from his current staff. Ned Yost - perhaps although the Brewers wisely tied him up for several seasons earlier this year. Filling Mazzone’s shoe was bad enough. Not a job I would want. Expectations way too high.

By Moo Moo

August 21, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

I keep reading from the LaRoche appologists how it was a good idea by LaRoche, just not good execution.

LaRoche lifetime against Borowski 3 outta 4.

Great move huh?

By Brooklyn Braves Brawler

August 21, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this

Those are the kind of bonehead plays that keeps Adam in my dog house. He’s an idiot and the most arrogant SOB on the team.

If Bobby blows a game, that the life a manager. They got all the blame and little of the praise. Bobby will not protect a player who blantantly does the opposite of what was asked. You bunt or sswing away depending on the personnel at bat. Langerhans, Orr are your bunters. Chipper, Andruw, French, B. Mac, and even Adam have to swing away.

BTW Larouche Sucks!

By KC

August 21, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this

The only deal Shuerholz might be make for pitching this winter would be for another pre-9th inning veteran reliever to replace Baez if we don’t resign him. Shuerholz doesn’t need to do much with the pitching for next year except make sure Wickman returns, and do the best he can to keep Baez or replace him. The Braves might offer Baez a 2 year deal in the 5-6 million range, but he’s likely to get a more substantial offer elsewhere.

With Hampton, HoRam, Blaine Boyer, and John foster all due back from the DL next spring… it’s like signing 4 free agent pitchers. Add to that the fact the Atlanta has no key players (Apart from Wickman and Baez) eligible for free agency, and JS’s job should be a relatively easy one this winter.

As I see it, Wickman’s already a done deal. He is very open to pitching at least another year. He likes Atlanta and Turner Field, and loves Bobby Cox, and the quality of the Braves clubhouse. The Braves will re-sign him for something very close to the contract Wickman signed this year (1 year, 5 million).

There will be a decision to make on Marcus Giles this winter. It looks like the Braves have the money to keep him next year, but with Aybar, Orr, and Prado all being candidates to take over at 2B (perhaps in a platoon) next season, they might decide to save 5 million on next year’s payroll or spend it elsewhere. Also JS will probably keep an eye open for a true leadoff hitter, but where would you put him? Do you discard or trade Matt Diaz, a .300-plus hitter?? When is Scott Thorman going to get his shot? We’re pretty well manned… more than pretty well manned in LF. Ideally, it would be great to find a true leadoff hitter that we could plug in at 2B. A deal with Baltimore involving Giles in exchange for Brain Roberts sounds pretty good, but I don’t think they’re anxious to part with him.

There will be a couple of things to watch this winter, but nothing major. More than anything, the up coming off-season will be about getting this team healthy and ready for a World Series run in 07.

By KC

August 21, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

beachcomber:

Thanks, yeah LaRoche is in a position many other people find themselves in everyday… being misunderstood.

As to Bobby Cox… All managers have to make tactical decisions during a game. Some work out well, others don’t. That’s with any manager. In that sense, I don’t think Bobby Cox is much different from anyone else. I’ve never met Bobby Cox… I can only go on what I see and hear. What apparently sets BC apart, to hear everyone that’s ever played for him or coached with him talk… are the things that we don’t’ necessarily see. Making out a lineup card or tactical maneuvering during a game is only one part of being a manager.

I think most any manager has a pretty good idea of what he’s doing when it comes to the mechanical game calling stuff. It’s leadership that usually sets the certain managers apart from others, and Bobby is one of the most respected leaders in the game.

There have been many occasions when we have signed or re-signed a player for less money than they could have made elsewhere, based largely on a desire to play for (or keep playing for) Bobby Cox.

I can give you one example this year. Bob Wickman admitted that he vetoed at least 2 trades this year from the Indians before accepting the trade to Atlanta. He cited respect he has for Bobby Cox as a key reason for wanting to play here.

For all the criticism the Braves take for only winning one World Series… frankly most of the years they lost in the post-season, the just got beat by a better team. There’s no shame in that. There have been a number of seasons over this 14 year run when the Braves had absolutely no business even playing in October (1999, and the last to seasons come especially to mind). No of us have ever played for Bobby Cox or any major league manager, so I guess we’ll just have to take the word of pretty much everyone who’s ever played for him when they say he’s a truly great manager.

By alan from Atlanta GA.

August 21, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

If Adam Laroche bunted on his own, as Bobby Cox indicates, this is not the first time he got confused while playing. Remember his loping to 1st base earlier. Even though he has hit 25 hrs. the Braves are still 5 1/2 games back in the wild card. Maybe it’s time for management, B. C. and J.S. to think of another first basemen. Scott Thorman looks promising. Watching Was Helms made me reminesce also. Another thought, is Giles worth the money he will want nexr year? I think he’s overpaid now. Back to Laroche, just because he’s hit 25 hrs. doesn’t mean he is a thinking player.

By Robert

August 21, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

“If you listen to the people that have been around MLB for 30, 40, or 50 years, you will hear nothing but respect and admiration for Bobby Cox as a manager. But then… what they hell do they know”

Which people? The ones who pay top tier salaries to end up with fourth or fifth place teams?

Bobby Cox did a good enough job as a GM. Give him credit for that.

As a manager, name me a time he helped a team win an important game. One will do

He had the best team in baseball at least 8 seperate times, with a starting rotation that was the envy of baseball. Net result, one title (when the pitchers ran the table three consecutive times) and a legacy of playoff boners and underachievement.

Anyone who admires that is easily impressed

By Robert

August 21, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

First and second, noone out, at home, down one

People, the proper move is to bunt the runners over.

Poorly executed, but the proper ploy

I am kind of surprised by Cox’s reaction. He usually supports his players, even when they screw up. In this case, LaRoche was actually covering Cox’s stupid behind - he made the right play on his own even when his donkey manager hadnt called for it - and what does he get - he gets hung out to dry, by his donkey manager, by his arrogant a-hole teammate Chipper, and by a lot of people in this forum

I get accused of being negative. Well folks, I am not a big LaRoche fan, but in this case I have to come to his defense

Critize the execution if you like (and in that case go ahead and criticize the manager for not having his team well prepared.

But DO NOT criticize the decision, because it was the correct play.

By Alex

August 21, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this

It’s only the correct play if it works. I can too play the devil’s advocate on this.

The guy who asked if there is sympathy for the traitor Glavine from Braves fans, I don’t claim to speak for others, but none from me. He sold his soul to the devils in orange and blue from NY…let him reap the rewards. If he had taken less money and stayed here, he would already be at 300 career wins, and if this injury was career ending he would be a sure hall of famer, now, sitting at 287, he better hope it’s not career ending, or he’s not getting in. The way I see it, if he had went to a team like the Red Sox, I would be OK with it…but not the Mets. You can’t go to the Mets, after being a lifelong Braves player and do that and have my support as a fan. I used to be the biggest TG fan when he was a Brave…even with all the strike stuff in the 90’s…but now good riddance. I hope it was worth those extra 10 million.

Also, what’s new. Another bone head play by Adam…and I hope some fans at the Ted tonight, when he comes up to bat, shout out “Just don’t bunt Adam, swing away!”.

By triondog

August 21, 2006 05:35 PM | Link to this

i don’t like his decision. evidently he is tired and not thinking too well, maybe bobby ought to tell his players some advice when they get to critical late innings situations call time out and discuss it. what else reasons is he paid a kings ransom for, while i can’t afford to drive from trion to atlanta,purchase a 20 dollar parking space buy a 65 dollar ticket.

By bobbo

August 21, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this

Lets remeber though Bobby Cox is a player favorite, because he gets out of the way of his players lets the veterans lead the younger guys, and puts everyone in position to be successful. Well this year either the leadership from the vets isn’t there, or the young guys just don’t listen. I realize that if Roachy had gotten it down and things had gone well no one would be saying anything negative, but he screwed up, and when you put yourself on an island like that (making a game changing decision on your own when your a third year player) you deserve the reward if it work and you deserve the scorn when it doesn’t, Bonehead play by Laroche lets just hope this is his last mental lapse and he continues to be productive because we need him to make the playoffs.

La roche last year not running in Houston not getting to first earlier this year yesterday with the bunt, I pray he has learned his lesson

By journalist PENN

August 21, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

By Bobo[[[[LaRoche was trying his best to win. Lets get off his case.The word BUNT is not in Bobby Cox’s Vocabulary. If LaRoche had got it down who knows what may have happen and he may have been the Hero. The Braves have more problems than one play.]]]]

Bobby Cox is the manager. LaRoche is a player. It is not in his pay grade to decide to bunt. He was sent up there to hit the dammmm ball. It was one of the most stupid mistakes I’ve seen in fifty years of professional baseball. The runners didn’t even know he was going to bunt so even if he’d laid it down perfectly there was still a good chance there would have been an out at third.

If that idiot was playing for me he’d pay right out of his hip pocket with a hefty fine although he’s still making peanuts compared to many players.

He is paid to do what he’s told. Even established players such as Renteria and Chipper and Andruw would never bunt unless told to bunt and surely without the runners being aware a bunt was coming.

The fact remains, LAROCHE IS STUPID.

By sando

August 21, 2006 06:24 PM | Link to this

The game was basically lost in the second inning, when Pratt grounded into a DP with the bases loaded and no outs. I don’t care how tired or how hurt or uncomfortable McCann is; he needs to be playing and batting unless we have 7 run lead in the late innings. He can rest up in the off season, which will be pretty soon.

By Paul A

August 21, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this

This is the end od the line for the Braves and their run of post-season appearances. But look on the bright side. Instead of the season ending with another post-season failure, it will conclude quietly at Turner Field on a Sunday afternoon in a meaningless game against the Astros. That beats the pain of another Division Series knockout.

It’s over, gang. No wild card. No nothing.

By Brave Players Supporter

August 21, 2006 07:23 PM | Link to this

The Braves Player have to win dispite Coaching. I know little league coaches that would have pulled that one out for the Braves. Yates to go in to pitch???? Why? Walk the 1st, hello - confirm, Yates??? LaRoach asked to think, let him pull the ball - no thinking. Best hitter in ball with two outs, 9th inning and 1st open…huh, (waste him there)everyone walks him, don’t they. Probably one of the worst coaching jobs in a pinch I can recall, including Little League. Terry Pendleton for Manager!! He would have got that right!

By bravesgal

August 21, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

I attended the May 14 game where LaRoche skipped to first base and the runner beat him out. That stunt cost us 4 runs that inning, and eventually the game. Thus began the slow decline of the Braves, IMHO.

BTW, my uncle played baseball with LaRoche’s father, and let’s say that the apple didn’t fall too far from the tree…

By Mike

August 21, 2006 09:20 PM | Link to this

To all you guys who are complaining about THE BUNT. If it had worked we would be saying what an unselfish thing he did. He move runners into scoring position. We would have then had a 65-70% chance to tuy the game without a hit.

By JMarchant

August 21, 2006 09:41 PM | Link to this

If LaRoche had of run to first instead of watching the ball, and not pulled up short of the bag, the Braves would have had runners at first and second with only one out…that burns me more than the decision to bunt…

By Karl

August 22, 2006 02:45 AM | Link to this

I have no problem with LaRoche bunting. With men at first and second and no one out it is the smart thing to do. The problem I have with LaRoche is that when he did bunt he didn’t bust out of the batters box instead he paused waiting to see if the umpire would call it fair or foul. It was a bang bang play at first and if he was hustling from the get go this would be a moot point.

Your thoughts.

By MIKE

August 23, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

I SAW CHIPPER HAD A COMMENT. WHILE I TOO WONDERED AT THE “BUNT,” I SHOULD REMIND CHIPPER I’VE OFTEN WONDERED HOW HE CAN TAKE TWO PITCHES DOWN THE MIDDLE, GET IN THE HOLE, THEN HAVE TO SWING AT THE DIRT——AND MISS——-THE BALL.