ajcsportstalk

By TDub

August 15, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this

Where was Andruw?

By john

August 15, 2006 09:41 PM | Link to this

we had to pitch a minor league pitcher again and we followed a good game with a poor one

By Brad

August 15, 2006 10:00 PM | Link to this

The Braves had a minor league pitcher on the mound and he got no defensive help in the 3rd inning. It’s not like it mattered anyway. When you only get two hits off of a guy with an E.R.A. around 5 you don’t deserve to win.

By Ron Roberts

August 15, 2006 10:17 PM | Link to this

I’m looking forward to the positive spin on this one….

By Shaun

August 15, 2006 10:21 PM | Link to this

Siiiiiiighhh.

By Bobbymahlon

August 15, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this

This time don’t blame it onto pitching. The defense was terrible and the hitting was horrible. When you have T Pena and Ryan L in the batting order along with the pitcher you have three easy outs in a row at the bottom of the lineup. The way Franceour has been swinging at low pitches out of the strike zone you can add another easy out. With his pitch selection he will always be a 250 hitter. They ought to set him down and make him watch game tapes until he realizes what he is doing wrong. Why can all of us fans see it and he can not do anything about it. I can’t beleive he is that dum.

By BravesfaninTN

August 15, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this

Feel great about the team one night, they lay an egg the next…Pretty much sums up the season, doesn’t it (except for June)?

By Beach Dawg

August 15, 2006 10:41 PM | Link to this

15th Championship? Nope! Wildcard? Nope! A sub 500 season? Very possible and would be Bobby’s first in many moons.

By Shaun Payne

August 15, 2006 10:44 PM | Link to this

The way I see it, we’re allowed maybe one loss a week from here on out. Maybe this will be the only one for this week.

By Glen

August 15, 2006 10:49 PM | Link to this

It absolutley baffles the mind. So much for “winning every stinking game left”, what in the world is it gonna take to light a fire under these people. The Brewers, the nats, the phillies these are are all sub .500 ballclubs, these arent teams that we should feel happy with “getting a split”. Playoff teams sweep these type of series. Playoff teams win, be it on the road or at home. Good game or bad game you just win. All thats been done lately is make sorry excuses. We should´ve, could´ve, would´ve…please !!!!

By ATLER

August 15, 2006 10:56 PM | Link to this

Here we go again with the excuses. This crap has been going on all year long. See what happens when Andrew is not in the line up. I bet the Hawks will do better. Anyone care to bet???

By SAL

August 15, 2006 10:57 PM | Link to this

Only one reliable starter (Smoltz) sums up the rotation. Hudson has sucked. James has been fair. Cormier should still be in Arizona or Rome (Ga.). The other mystery starter (Barry?) has not done anything. Heck, Sosa’s numbers could easily be the number 2 or 3 man in our rotation. Braves cannot sustain more than a 1 or 2 game win streak with current starters. A .500 season seems to be impossible with this staff.

I think it is time to begin spring training 2007.

By Canuckbravesfan

August 15, 2006 11:01 PM | Link to this

Why can we not get at least one good start from a pitcher we bring up from the minors this year ??? Seems to me that in previous years we could bring someone up (Kyle Davies last year, for instance) and they would give us a bit of a lift with a good start or two. Is pitching at AAA and AA so inept they cannot give us at least one solid start ??? Travis Smith made one respectable start in Arizona and then he quit the organization. What is it with the rest of them ???

By SRF

August 15, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this

Man, these boys are pitiful. Errors in the field and clueless at the plate against a mediocre pitcher. They are really battling for last place.

By ATLER

August 15, 2006 11:26 PM | Link to this

” Look up in the sky, it’s a bird, it’s a plane, no it’s the super two.” Chipper and Frenchy save the day again. Where are those numbers we always like to bring up. I thought so. We’ll be better next year because this year is OVER!!!!!!

By Chris

August 15, 2006 11:27 PM | Link to this

If you look up inconsistent in the dictionary you’ll find a picture of the Braves. Is Lance Cormier the best you have?! JS you go under the bus for not getting more for Johnny Estrada.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 15, 2006 11:29 PM | Link to this

I guess it goes without saying that they have to win the next two. As good as this offense is, we saw its one weakness tonight…..AGAIN! It is too one dimensional. When the ball is smacked out of the park they win, but when they don’t they lose. They just can’t manufacture runs. It also doesn’t help that Bobby had the spring training split squad unit on the field tonight either.

By BirdMahn

August 15, 2006 11:37 PM | Link to this

The Braves have ONE good pitcher…Smoltz and THREE good hitters…Chipper, Andruw and McCann. Tonight? Like so many others. These guys keep swinging for the fence against a soft-toss pitcher? It’s wonder they’ve one as many games as they have. They simply AREN’T a very good team!

By Todd A

August 15, 2006 11:45 PM | Link to this

I think you can say the Braves have officially hit rock bottom now.When you get only 2 hits off a guy that was 4-16 for his career against you,well….it just doesn’t get any worse than this.Thank goodness kick-off is only 17 days,12 hours,34 minutes,and .50 seconds away.

By gotigers72

August 15, 2006 11:49 PM | Link to this

This team is bi-polar!!!!!!!

By Todd A

August 15, 2006 11:53 PM | Link to this

I nominate John Schuerholz for GM of the year…………….for the L.A. Dodgers.

By Head Coach

August 16, 2006 12:26 AM | Link to this

Gee , wheres the bandwagon tonight ?

By disgruntledfan

August 16, 2006 12:57 AM | Link to this

So much for “winning every stinking game” on the road trip eh?

Head Coach, “the bandwagon” is probably out drinking away their disappointment.

By ATLER

August 16, 2006 01:02 AM | Link to this

Hey Head Coach us real Braves fans are not in la la land we actually know it’s over until next year. This is not a good team, plain ans simple. It’s a hell of a triple A ball club. And with our beloved Andruw out what did you really expect. Point blank Andruw and Smoltz are the Braves.

By nathan

August 16, 2006 01:05 AM | Link to this

Ladies and Gentleman…….Tonights starting lineup for the Atlanta Braves….

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Like always, we follow a game of scoring 10 runs by being shutout!!! I won’t even get into the absolute pitifulness (is that even a word? - If it’s not, it is NOW!), about it being against PEDRO FRIGGIN ASTACIO!!!!!!!

Nice Call on “kickoff”…..Todd A

By bobbo

August 16, 2006 01:05 AM | Link to this

IM tired of watching frenchy continue to act like a big kid up there, the free swinging thing was funny last year, but now he needs to become a real ball player one who will be in this city for awhile shape up.

Just a quick note about our young pitching, this is all the young pitching that was always untouchable in the early 2000’s when we were onn hitter or pitcher away from a world series but JS hung on to all of it so he didnt ruin our future, well the future of this ball club sucks and he never reached the pinnacle after 95 despite plenty of money and talent. The guy has made great moves, but he never went all out for that world series, instead keeping us in contention and keeping the farm system in tact, well the farm system apparently is dry and we neevr won another championship and this is only the beginning braves fans will be wishing to be this close next year.

By ATLER

August 16, 2006 01:37 AM | Link to this

The 2 most overrated athletes: Atlanta’s own Frenchy and N.Y. football Giants’ Little boy Manning.

By Doug

August 16, 2006 01:40 AM | Link to this

Fundamentals! The Braves, like many other MLB teams have forgotten fundamentals. When you are getting smacked around like that, you need to stop trying to play longball. Small ball is the only way to manufacture runs. The Japanese know this … that is why they won the WBC. Some serious fundamentals training would do the offense some good.

By Del

August 16, 2006 04:54 AM | Link to this

One of the most agonizing failures of this year is the apparent absence of progress being made by Frenchy. Someone better find a way to reach this young man before he ruins a potentially fantastic career. All season long his stubborn attitude towards always over-throwing the cutoff man amd always swinging at the low, outside in-the-dirt pitches is mind boggling to me. What will it take to reach this young man, and who on the Braves will have the guts to confront him with the facts and the consequences??? And don’t give me that “we don’t want to restrict his aggressivness” crap!!!

By Charlie

August 16, 2006 06:28 AM | Link to this

As a hitter, Francour has no approach when he comes to the plate. Clueless. He obviously has no thought process at all. He has no concept of the strike zone, and his ability to recognize pitches and location is non-existent. With two strikes, an opposing pitcher could bounce the ball three times as it heads into the dugout, but, have no fear, Frenchy will hack at it…time after time. Why any pitcher would throw the guy anything in the strike zone is beyond me. Being aggressive at the plate is one thing. Having no thought process during an at bat is another. Tha parade of AA caliber pitcher (or less) continues. The Braves are less than mediocere. The clowns we acquired in the Estrada trade are even less valuable than what the Braves got when we traded a real ballplayer in Wilson Benemit.

By Don

August 16, 2006 07:40 AM | Link to this

Add the Estrada trade to what is actually a long list of blunders by the invincible Schuerholz. Are his apologists ready to admit that he is not, and never was, the genius he is portrayed to be? Most anyone of average ability could do well with Avery, Glavine, Smoltz, and Maddux pitching and Turner’s checkbook. He doesn’t have those crutches anymore and it shows.

Dodgers won again. Joe Morgan is very impressed with Betemit whether JS puppets are or not.

By Don

August 16, 2006 07:47 AM | Link to this

When a child isn’t following instructions, he is disciplined. If Francoeur is not following the instructions of Cox and the coaches, fine him and/or sit him down. Francoeur is the future of the franchise. However, he probably needs a little discipline and Cox isn’t capable of handling it. I blame the “leader” (Cox) and not the enormously talented kid just a couple of years out of high school. Cox is the failure- not Francoeur. Francoeur is the future- certainly not Cox.

By Robert(Justice Is The Best)

August 16, 2006 07:49 AM | Link to this

I’m surprised that every pitcher doesn’t throw pitches down and away to Frenchy because he will swing and miss. He doesn’t have a plan when goes to plate other than to swing away. However, I think Cox and Pendelton have some responsibility in this as well. They have to sit him down and tell him to learn the strike zone and develop a plan against each and every pitcher. I think Frenchy is great and will be a great player. But, I would like to know what he and McCann talk about until 2am, because its obviously not about plate approach. McCann studies each and every pitcher and develops a plan to approach that pitcher. Chipper does the same thing, as does Renteria. I don’t think there is a coincidence in that those three guys seems to be the most consistent hitters on the team.

By beegee

August 16, 2006 07:52 AM | Link to this

As a Braves fan living in Baltimore.. I have the best (of the worst) in both leagues now. A guy just can’t get a break when both the teams he loves are PAINFUL to watch.

By mart

August 16, 2006 07:56 AM | Link to this

I’m with the “never say die Atlanta Braves” no matter what. And I’ll tell you what—-if they develope some good talent in the minors and make some shrewd trades, come 2009 they’ll be a force to reckon with!

By beegee

August 16, 2006 07:58 AM | Link to this

* MIGHT TAKE UNTIL 2010 *

By Carroll

August 16, 2006 07:59 AM | Link to this

Last night’s lineup was reminscint of the 98 playoffs, game 6….remember? when we needed a win the most and Bobby ran out a AAA lineup?

By Don

August 16, 2006 08:01 AM | Link to this

Definition of Braves Hitters - 1 - Two-faced, schizophrenic, capable of very good and very bad. 2 - Lacking the will to succeed, unable to capitalize on momentum, 3 - Expecting a bad pitching performance and reacting accordingly, 4 - cannot score without hitting homeruns.

By EdoRiver

August 16, 2006 08:19 AM | Link to this

there are some valid questions among all the complaints. We really can’t expect the team to win every game because the weakness of starting pitching rotation, and the very easy outs in the lineup. I would place money that we win close to 55% of the remaining games.

I wonder what a close examination of the quaility of our 1st and 2nd year pitching compares to of other teams around the league.

By Willy

August 16, 2006 08:50 AM | Link to this

Once this season is over, Lemke, Klitenic et al. are moving to the Pentagon to start spinning the war in Iraq. Only here could someone take a two-hit shutout and make it sound like the Braves’ are on their way to securing the Wild Card and beginning their move on the Mets! Puhleeeeezzzzeeeee!!!!!!!!

By foreverafan

August 16, 2006 08:57 AM | Link to this

This has been coming for the past several years. The only question is what does it do to the sale of the team??

By br

August 16, 2006 09:00 AM | Link to this

Wow, what a difference 24 hours makes! From a 10 run explosion to a 2 hit, no run fart in the wind! Will the REAL Braves team please raise your hands?

By greg

August 16, 2006 09:24 AM | Link to this

this far in the season, why cant smoltz, hudson, james go on 4 days rest. show me a written rule that says a picther has to have 5. back 10 years ago, 4 days rest was the standard. if i was bobby and really wanted to make a run, i would go on 4 days rest, have them go 5 innings, then hope you can get 2 innings from somebody. thats the only way that this season can be salvaged..

By Brent

August 16, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

Greg, You may be right; but, if Hudson has trouble going 6 innings currently, so what happens if you send him on short rest?

James is young, and typically, you need to be careful with over-working young pitchers, for fear that they’ll throw their arm out (see: Liriano & Wood)

Smoltz has had multiple elbow surgeries and has been injured two of the last 3 post-seasons (due largely to overwork). If we overwork him now, what will we have come October, if we’re so lucky to make it? Smoltz has already said that he’ll retire if he has another elbow surgery.

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this

Schuerholz, the offense and Francouer

Don,

Schuerholz is not perfect; no GM is. He should be called out for his errors, but you also have to realize he’s played a big role in building winners in two cities. And I would argue that in some ways he is indeed a genius. But he has weaknesses, like every GM.

The Betemit trade was okay because we filled a need in getting a and get a younger player who has a better track record throughout his pro career than Betemit at the same point. Betemit is a good player, but he’s no Chipper or Renteria or Giles. You trade a backup to fill a need any day. You can say the we needed Betemit in case of injury to Chipper, but we’re screwed without Chipper anyway.

The Braves offense is not the reason they aren’t winning…it’s pitching. Have you seen where the Braves rank in runs scored? We have above average hitters at every position (except rightfield). Sure Francouer’s not ready and Diaz should play more but we’ve scored enough runs. We’ve allowed too many. We’ve had one good starter and no good relievers for most of the season.

As for Francouer, he’s not ready offensively. His defense is fine and he’s cheap but he’s not a good hitter yet. If you want to blame anyone, blame Schuerholz for bringing him up too soon.

You’re looking at one game, last night’s game, and assuming offense is the problem. Last night Cox rested many of the best hitters. Maybe he had good reason for it, maybe not. But offense isn’t the problem, no matter what Joe Morgan says.

I’m not making excuses for the Braves, I’m just trying to get the facts out there.

By greg

August 16, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this

i think going on 4 days rest would benifit hudson, if for only one reson,just to get a rythem. he hasnt had a rythem all year. plus, with one day off a week, it would work out great. it all depends on how bad the braves want to get back to post season. everyone they call up makes my butt tight because i know it is a loss, a momentum breaker. you cant get on a winning streak without team confidence. how can you have that when the players have the same feeling i do…today we are going to lose!

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this

I think a four-man rotation would be our best chance to do anything. We need to maximize Smoltz’s innings and hope Hudson pitches like he did in 2002, 2003.

By Hal

August 16, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this

Its funny how the JS brown nosers always seem absent after another “tough” loss

the fact of the matter is it wont be any better next year eather ,with 60 mil commited to 5 players 2 of which are usually injured ,one whos performance has been ummm underwhelming ..theres not much payroll left to adress a FEW issues

like starting pitching,bullpen and a right fielder who has less knowledge of the game them most second year little leaguers .How many cutoff men does he have to over throw ,how many runners does he have to fail to move over

Yea, yea i know hes only 22.How olds McCann again?

By Richard in Goose Creek

August 16, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this

As a long-time fan, having lived through the 70’s and 80’s nightmare, this game felt like the end of the 1975 season, when 700 to 800 people would show up to Fulton County Stadium. There was absolutely no spark or life in this team last night, and it showed. It is almost like they knew they were toast before they ever took the field. Even the post season losses haven’t been as depressing as watching last night’s game was.

By Johnny Blade

August 16, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this

I told you fools yesterday that the Braves would return soon to their losing form. The team you saw last night more closely resembles the real Braves than the team that won 10-4. In the end, the Braves have always had a way of making mediocre opposing players look like All Stars. Last night they turned Astacio into a Cy Young candidate. Cox didn’t help by putting his AA lineup on the field. I was hoping that Astacio could have pulled off the perfect game as it would have spoken volumes that the Braves give up the last two perfect games in MLB. This team is terrible and needs to be put down.

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this

Hal,

In previous year John Schuerholz and the Braves could “afford” to use up most of their payroll on a few players because they could still afford solid players everywhere else, but now it seems they can’t. His hands were tied in years past with contracts but this offseason is going to tell the tale. We’ll see if he can turn Andruw Jones and Marcus Giles into five or six good young players.

I think Scherholz is one of the better GM’s and his track record seems to prove it in both KC and Atlanta. Like I said, you aren’t going to find a perfect GM. I’m not an apologist and I understand he deserves to be criticized for his mistakes, but you have to consider him a possible Hall-of-Fame executive.

By greg

August 16, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this

johhny, its obvious you are not a braves fan, i respect that. but for you to call us who are fools is not very classy. i know alot of people are glad the braves are struggling,but as yogi said, it aint over til its over…i will keep the faith..you never know

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this

Richard in GC,

Yeah, where are all those fans who were unhappy with the Braves winning all those division titles? Would you rather have that or this year’s team? And does any fan over 30 remember those bad years in the 1970’s and most of the 1980’s? This team isn’t bad. It’s about average. Sure, I’d rather be good, but I’d rather be average than bad. I’m not saying no one can criticize the Braves, I’m just saying that this is not a totally dreadful season.

By ATLER

August 16, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this

Hey just a thought. How about trading Laroche, moving Chipper to first and making Benemit the full time 3rd baseman. Nope it might too much sense huh. Yep ole JS would have been a genious for making that move. Chipper’s too fragile at 3rd and Laroche is expandable.

By ebineezer

August 16, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this

Chipper hits 3 HRs, Diaz ties the NL record for consecutive hits, Braves win scoring 10 runs, the team is on the road. The team goes out the next night and only get 2 hits and scores no runs while making a couple errors. Anybody think they might have went out for a little “celebration” and just might have been a little hungover last night? Maybe they got a little sleep last night and today will turn out differently.

By ATLER

August 16, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this

Why does JS trade away the good players and keep the bad ones???

By Scott

August 16, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this

I think everyone needs to chill out on Francouer a little bit. The guys what, 22 years old - lotta baseball ahead for him. Yes, he certainly doesn’t appear to have a strong gameplan going at the plate (especially when you compare him to his roommate McCann), BUT he is trending this year to put up 30 homers & over 100 RBI’s!! He WILL learn the strike zone and become more mature, which will lead to the ability to get ahead in the count more often, and then watch the OBP and BA shoot up. It’s literally impossible to believe that he won’t improve.

You can talk all you want to about injuries to the pitching staff (and they’ve had a ton), but John S has traded away a lot of young pitching talent the last couple of years - Wainwright, Meyer, Capellan, to name a few. It’s possible that the cupboard is just a little bare right now. Chuck James has a lot of heart, but doesn’t have the stuff to stick - his fast ball is only 89 tops, and has NO movement; Ramirez is too fragile; Davies really hasn’t proved anything yet.

The position players are fine, but a leadoff hitter is a must - 2nd base or LF??

If JS doesn’t rebuild the pitching roster soon, the Braves will continue to be mediocre for years to come.

By TheSouthernJackAss

August 16, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this

You morons that keep bragging about “living thru” the Braves losing years of the 70’s and 80’s make me want to puke! You lived thru it because the only TV channel you could pirate off your coat hangar and duct tape was TBS. The only thing TBS had to air was Braves baseball. You should have attended school and learned how to read and write, and maybe add and subtract then you would know that it’s not right to screw your sister! Well it looks like those good ol’ days are here again—just stay off your damned sister!!!…GO ANGELS!!!…

By Russ

August 16, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

The team needs were no taken care of in the offseson due to the ownership. The ownership wants to operate this team middle of the pack budget. Over the last few years the pitching staff has dwindled and not been replaced with players of the same calibur. I think Bobby and John have done a good job wiuth what they have. Just think if they had signed Wickman in the offseason. We may have been in the wildcard chase. We have no starting pitching outside of Smoltz and Ramirez. It’s over.

By greg

August 16, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

lol, what an idoit!!!

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this

Scott,

I’m not sure that was a criticism, but you trade young pitchers to win now. Most pitching prospects don’t pan out. Look at the top pitching prospects from 10 years ago and only about 5 or 6 of the top pitching prospects from 10 years ago have put together any type of career. Obviously it depends on what you get and where you are, but if you have a chance to win now, you trade pitching prospects for necessary pieces.

That said, I’m sure Schuerholz has made some mistakes in trading some young pitchers. But I’m sure he’s made a lot of good moves with young pitchers, too.

By Joe

August 16, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this

As far as the wild card goes, from 1st place Cinci to 10th place Florida, I’m not counting anyone out because apparently nobody wants it all that bad. If you ask me, I think Philadelphia is playing better than just about anyone right now. As far as the Braves; they need to utilize this easy August schedule and go 10-4 or better the remainder of the month to be in any shape at all going into September. From there they’ll still have to remain on an awsome tear for the duration. It can be done but it won’t be easy.

By ATLER

August 16, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

Hey Scott where were those 30 hrs and over 100 RBI’s last night. Case and point the guy ( Frenchy ) doesn’t come through when you need him to. And you guys call him the posterboy for the Braves. HA!!!!!!!

By RBG

August 16, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

the Dodgers are 14-0 with Bettemit in the starting lineup while the Braves wont win 14 games the rest of the season…

By Bob

August 16, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

You can’t win when you have only one dependable starting pitcher. Also,the bull pen has cost us a lot of games!!!!

By Scott

August 16, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this

hey Atler - little short-sighted, eh? First of all, Pedro A appeared unhittable (more an indictment of the Braves than his ability) only giving up 2 hits. BTW, one of them was to…..FRANCOUER!

As far as Frenchy not coming thru in the clutch, yeah he strikes out too much, BUT he’s in the top 3 in the majors in 2 out RBI’s. That’s clutch.

Is he a finished product yet? of course not, but give him a little time.

By don

August 16, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this

Shaun, You have to be the only guy who still defends the Betemit trade. I’ll bet you also liked the Drew, Farnsworth, and Estrada trades.

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

I think everyone needs to chill out on Francouer a little bit. The guys what, 22 years old - lotta baseball ahead for him. Yes, he certainly doesn’t appear to have a strong gameplan going at the plate (especially when you compare him to his roommate McCann), BUT he is trending this year to put up 30 homers & over 100 RBI’s!! He WILL learn the strike zone and become more mature, which will lead to the ability to get ahead in the count more often, and then watch the OBP and BA shoot up. It’s literally impossible to believe that he won’t improve.

Yes, I believe Francouer will improve and probably become a star. But this year is not indication. The RBI total is mostly because he hits behind high on-base guys like Chipper, Andruw and McCann and he’s in the lineup virtually everyday.

Everyone needs to chill out about RBI, including MVP voters.

By Scott

August 16, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Shaun, I agree with you on your response to my comments regarding young pitching and JS’s moves. But, if you trade away your best young pitching prospects, you must get talent in return, and generally the Braves have not. Case in point, of the everyday position players for the Braves, except for Renteria, all of them came thru the organization. I think Diaz and Giles might have come from elsewhere, but they were not coveted when they got here. JS has consistently brought in rental players who stay for a year or so, and then are gone. Now this has contributed to division titles, but these players (Sheffield, Castillo, JD Drew, Gallaraga, Hollandsworth, Mondesi, Kolb…) haven’t brought us the title. Still, I admire JS - e.g. he got Wickman for a minor league catcher whose name we’d never have heard otherwise. Hated to see Betemit go, but he got Aybar (better than WB at 23 - and bound to get better) and Baez (great set-up guy). What a deal, because WB was never gonna crack this line-up short of a career ending injury to someone else.

Bottom line is JS has a frozen budget which won’t allow him to go out and get the top pitchers, so if we don’t home-grow ‘em…?

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

Don,

The Betemit trade did/will do little to change the Braves fortunes, whether it turns out to be a “good trade” or a “bad trade.”

Yeah, I guess the Hall of Fame would be watered down if we let the best GM’s of this generation in. Why should we consider results? Let’s just look at who made a few bad trades.

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

Scott,

Yeah, I’m not defending JS’s trades. Some of them have worked out, some of them haven’t. Some of them were probably wise and some of them probably weren’t.

I’m just saying, if you have a chance to win in a particular year, you sometimes have to take that chance, even if it means just getting that one player for a year or two. Obviously it depends on the particular players involved and how much they are going to improve your chances. If you feel like you are one player away from reaching the post-season or winning the World Series, I think you trade young pitching for that player. (Unless you are pretty sure that young pitcher is going to turn into Johan Santana or somebody like that, but 99% of pitching prospects don’t turn into anything close to dominant. And I would guess that 85-90% don’t turn into anything close to major league pitchers.)

By michael

August 16, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

Cox need to sit Francour a game or so. This the second time that he had missed the cut of man. He continues to swing at pitches out of the strike zone. I believe that what TP tells him it in one ear and out of the other. You are a sad team when you let a medicore pitcher beat you on a two hitter. The pitching was not hat bad. The defense let him down.

Michael

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

I guess Terry Ryan of the Twins is not a good GM because he let David Ortiz go and probably made a few more bad moves. Let’s ignore the fact he acquire Johan Santana, Joe Nathan, Francisco Liriano for nothing or next to nothing, and drafted Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau and Jason Bartlett.

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

Don,

Who did the Braves give up to get Farnsworth? Two minor league pitchers. And maybe 5%-10% of all pitching prospect turn into anything at all…and even that may be a generous estimate.

Yeah, they didn’t get much in the Estrada trade, but they didn’t give up much either…and they had McCann…and how much could we really get for Estrada? Maybe we could have received more than we got but would you give up anything good for a 29-year-old catcher that had one good season?

In the Drew trade we gave up Jason Marquis, who didn’t really do much here and was reportedly unhappy, and Adam Wainwright, a minor league pitcher. And maybe 5%-10% of all pitching prospect turn into anything at all…and even that may be a generous estimate.

By beachcomber

August 16, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

Shaun - I guess there are at least two of us who think some of our recent trades were ok. Your points on Estrada are well taken. He was good - McCann looks he’s going to be great. In Farnsworth we got 10 for 10 saves for nothing as you point out. And the jury is still out on the WB trade but some suspect even a straight up trade (assuming we don’t retain Baez) is advantage Braves. Good comments!

By greg

August 16, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

dead weight…pete orr and todd pratt….my god, play your kids in the minors and take a look at the future…both these players are horrible…just opinion,but thats how i see it

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

You are a sad team when you let a medicore pitcher beat you on a two hitter.

I guess the Yankees were a sad team a few years ago when they let six Astros pitchers no hit them…the Yankees won the pennant that year.

The Braves are an average team that had a bad night. They are an average team because they’ve been average all season. Can’t tell a lot by watching one game.

By greg

August 16, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

omar pitching tomorrow, why couldnt we have done that 4 weeks ago…theres a diffrent mind set to a pitcher when you know you will go 5+ innings…he has better stuff and a better feel for whats going on than a minor leauger who is struggling at aaa level with presure a day before he has to start in do or die games…i would look at yates to….these kids try to be perfect when they are put into a situation thier not ready for….watch omar have a good outting tomorrow

By Todd A

August 16, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this

Frenchy needs to be sent back to the minors…….the low minors.More like the instructional league.Guy needs some tough love right now,and he ain’t going to get it from that cheerleader in the dugout.

By greg

August 16, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

if handled right, tyler yates will be the next jason schmit if we dont trade him or put to much on him before his time…he has what it takes

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

If handled right Jorge Sosa should be the next Greg Maddux

By Braves20

August 16, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

Wouldn’t you have liked to see Yates (and a few others) in the hands of Mazzone? Look what he did with McMichael, Ligtenberg and few others and Yates has 10 times the stuff.

By greg

August 16, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

whole diffrent situation shaun..sosa isnt a pitcher…he is the luckiest player in professional ball right now…2 pitches…he got fortunate last year…look at the 13-3 record and look what the offense scoed when he pitched…good luck st louis

By dawgfacedboy

August 16, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this

This year’s dissapointments sit on a few pairs of shoulders. JS, Tim Hudson, TP ,McDowell and the bullpens (as one pair of shoulders). JS for making several questionable deals from the end of last year-now. There’s too many so I won’t even start trying to sort through them. Tim Hudson isn’t earning 1/3 of that hefty contract! How many blown games are they responsible for (not just Smoltz’s games either). As a recent ESPN article stated “Francour is on pace for the worst 30/100 season in MLB history.” That is on the shoulders of TP. He has been quoted as not wanting Francour to lose that aggresiveness at the plate. So, instead we should let him continue to swing at anything that travels in the general direction of the home plate area? As a pitching coach I know that I have to constantly work on location and pitch selection with my pitchers. It seems to me that either they don’t work on this or the pitchers keep making the same mistakes. In my opinion, Cox is tryint to do the best he can with what he’s got. WHICH AIN’T MUCH!!

By sammy miller

August 16, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this

SAMMY MILLER FIRST INTRODUCED THE VICK HAIRDO TO YOU FOOLS! MINE IS MORE PUFFY NOW!

By greg

August 16, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this

yates has three good pitches including a 98mph fast ball. if he is coached right to pitch off the fastbal(smoltz, please help) he is going to be that good

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

Greg,

How about this one?: if handled right Dan Kolb should be the next Dennis Eckersley.

By greg

August 16, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

he reminds me of a young smoltz…all respect reserved

By greg

August 16, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this

shaun, you missing the big picture im talking about…lol

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

Yates is 29-years-old and has spent most of his pro career so far in the minors. I don’t think he has much up side.

By KC

August 16, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t get too upset about last night’s loss. Games like that are going to happen. Astacio pitched not only his best game of the season, but probably his best game in several seasons. Yeah, we had a couple of costly errors that had me throwing footwear at the television, but they really didn’t matter in the end. We just couldn’t get anything going against Astacio. If not even Chipper or Diaz could hit him as hot as they’ve been, then you know he just pitched a helluva game, and you’ve just gotta tip your hat.

Anyway, the good news is that Lance Cormier actually pitched pretty well. Officially, he gave up 3 earned runs (2 unearned), but in reality he only gave up 2 earned and 3 unearned. If he can pitch this way the rest of the season, we’ll win more of his starts than we lose.

The other good news is that Smoltz is on the mound tonight, and Renteria should be back in the lineup (instead of T.Pena who makes Pete Orr look like Pete Rose)!

Go Bravos!

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

Yates minor league ERA: 4.02.

By KC

August 16, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

Shaun:

Anyone with the kind of stuff that Yates has, has a big upside. That said, that “upside” is far less meaningful if a pitcher hasn’t displayed the ability to put his pitches where he wants them. So far, that’s the story with Yates. Inconsistent control.

By greg

August 16, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

shaun, all it takes is one organizations dedication…for what we are talking about is a forth picth, being a slider(smoltz,plz help).. your looking at a possible 15+ game winner for your rotation…29yrs old….take the time…you have 7+yrs of a winner

By sammy miller

August 16, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

SAMMY MILLER IS THE CHAMP OF COMPUTER GAMES!

By greg

August 16, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

shaun, if you are a braves fan, why are all your comments…half empty instead of halk full

By greg

August 16, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

the way the game is going today and the egos that the game has made….players are not retiring at 38 anymore…look in the next 5 yrs, pitchers who have game will pitch to be 42-43..and others will play to 40….just for stature

By greg

August 16, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

look at julio…the ageless wonder….

By greg

August 16, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this

ill bet dollars to nuts that greg maddux signs a two year deal after this year,probably with the team that has him now…if not the dodgers….arizona…watch!

By KC

August 16, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this

The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for the Red Sox to do nothing.

By greg

August 16, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this

and lets not forget tom glavine…he has never been content in ny…who would….watch him get bought out of his last year and sign a 1 year deal with boston….with a pickup on both ends for a second year

By greg

August 16, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

and lets not forget tom glavine. he has not been content from the start with the mets….next year the mets buy out his contract..and hes of to boston…with a second year based on performaces

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

Maybe it is just the coaching and maybe Yates will become a great pitcher, but if Yates hasn’t done it by now, chances are he’s not going to become a great pitcher.

By greg

August 16, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

and lets not forget tom glavine. he has not been content from the start with the mets….next year the mets buy out his contract..and hes of to boston…with a second year based on performaces

By greg

August 16, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

i never said great…potiential. you said the key word with “coaching”

By Greg

August 16, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

I’d like to see the Braves acquire a pitchers off waivers, so that they can make a run. Like I have said before, good things don’t last forever (Braves streak of division titles). I think Braves fans need to get a grip and not down everything negative that has happened this year. Of course, it sucks that the Braves have not played well as in years past. But, the Mets and others teams are better and are tired of missing the playoffs. They made moves or found the motivation to play better, just accept that. I also believe that when it is all said and done, that 6-20 streak in June is the period that will come back to haunt the Braves keeping them out of the post season since 1990. Who knows the Braves may go into period of futility the next 5-10 years, because it happens. I has happened to the Yankees, Reds, Cardinals, Dodgers, and A’s. They had either long periods of playoff appearances, pennants, and world series appearances, and world series titles. And yes, I will put the 1991-2005 Atlanta Braves in with the aforementioned Baseball dynasties, although the Braves produced 1 WS title, 32 other teams wish they could have had the success like the Braves. So Braves fans stop crying this will not be the kiss of death if the Braves don’t make the post season. It maybe a good thing that they don’t make the playoffs because you and I have watched the Braves be futile in postseason play on too many occasions. The Braves may come back, get the Wild Card and win the World Series, anything can happen!!! Remember the 2003 Florida Marlins!!!

By greg

August 16, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

as much a braves fan as i am…he doesnt want to leave atlanta because there is no standard. he could have left two years ago, but told(scott boras) his agent to stay out of it and took way below what he could have made else where. if he leaves atlanta, he will drop to ordinary or below because, the yankees are going to be the only team to afford him. there he will get lost with the yankees scheme of things…i love andruw and hope he stays, but money is a thing you seel your soul for, especially in pro sports

By KC

August 16, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

Woe!!!!!!

We sent down Thorman??? Jeez. That’s a lot of thump we just took off our bench. I realize we’ve got to keep Pena here to keep another warm body of the infile variety on the bench. But why not send down someone who can’t help this team like… oh I don’t know… Kevin freakin’ Barry!!!!!!

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

My comments are neither half empty or half full. They are realistic.

By KC

August 16, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this

meant to say… “infield variety”

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this

Anyone with the kind of stuff that Yates has, has a big upside. That said, that “upside” is far less meaningful if a pitcher hasn’t displayed the ability to put his pitches where he wants them. So far, that’s the story with Yates. Inconsistent control.

A 29-year-old career minor leaguer probably doesn’t have much upset, especially a pitcher, no matter what the reason. Sure, I could be wrong. Maybe Yates is a very late bloomer. If I were betting, I’d put my money on him continuing to be a fringe reliever.

Why hasn’t anyone in four organizations been able to solve his control problems?

By william in LA

August 16, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

i have been a braves fan since 66, thru good & bad times. here’s what i think the problems are: a. writers & fans in atl are too soft (sissies) ‘cause u make excuses for mediocrity. js & bc have never been as great as u guys made them, it was that we had smoltz, glavine, avery, & maddux with a cast of characters. that didn’t take a genius to manage, a couple of runs & u win. the poor managing & weak lineup always showed in the playoff. js had chances to get top talent, but always went the cheap route. he was usually 1 hitter away from winning more world series & his trades were prospects for a rent-a-player, all the time fooling u dummies that he wanted to resign them, this was even before time warner, so i don’t want to hear that excuse. and bc can’t manage unless someone hits a 3run homer, i don’t think he knows what hit & run is. if the players have no discipline & no fire, who’s responsible? managing is more than making excuses & arguing balls & strikes. i hope the new owners will make changes at the top, starting with js & bc.

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this

I’m not sure what the average age of retirement is in MLB but it’s probably younger than 38. Players just don’t play into their early 40’s, no matter how much they want to improve their stature, if they can’t play. A team has to want them and they still have to be productive. I’m sure Sammy Sosa didn’t want to hang it up.

Players peak in their late 20’s and that hasn’t changed over the years. Sure, I’m sure technology and knowledge is better which allows us to stay in better shape longer, but technology and knowledge is better for everyone at all ages.

By KC

August 16, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

Shaun:

We’ll see. I’m not burning too many brain cells over Tyler Yates. Where’s Phil Stockman??

By Shaun

August 16, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

william in LA,

You forgot to blame the liberal media and the mafia and the jews.

By Richard in Goose Creek

August 16, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

Shaun, In no way did I say I wanted a return to the bad old days of the 70’s and 80’s, just that last night’s game felt like a flashback, and it was not a good feeling at all.

We should all realize how good we have had it the last 15 years, and be grateful games like last night are few and far between even in a down season like this one.

By greg

August 16, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

ill say it again…if tyler yates lets go of his curve and picks up the slider and learns how to switch speeds with it….hes our starter(3rd)for 6+years…and before the rest of our braves nation comes down on me….hes got the best teacher in baseball(john smoltz) to help it….im not crazy…this guy is missing that pitch to be that good

By greg

August 16, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

anyone who can throw 98mph and has a good slider…will be hard to touch with a good change up…..like i said…look at smoltz

By greg

August 16, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

look at jason schmitt

By greg

August 16, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

it took him 6 yrs out of atlanta to see how its done….he even roomed with greg maddux for a year…..

By greg

August 16, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this

once schmitt learned his slider..hes been top notch since…tyler yates has better stuff than schmitt does…im not joking…one pitch can make you

By greg

August 16, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this

if braves fans will remember, he was below average with the braves…….until he learned a pitch in philly, mastered it then went to fame with sf…..the slider at 3 speeds

By greg

August 16, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this

all i ask is the next time you watch a braves game….watch yates, and put a slider into his domain….you post and let me know

By greg

August 16, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this

i pitched with philly from 91+94 in thier farm system. coming out of college, i thought i was that good(divII)all-american. i never made it past AA. im older now, and know pitching. one pitch can make this kid

By Shaun Payne

August 16, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this

Tyler Yates is not going to become a good pitcher. He’s 29. If he’s not good by now, he’s not going to be.

Jason Schmidt was pretty good as soon as he was given a chance to start every fifth day when he was traded to Pittsburgh at the age of 23. At the age of 23 Yates was pitching in A and AA ball.