March to Atlanta: Hoop Head

By moochie

February 28, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

TONY, my boy, i’ll make you a deal. if illinois is out (like you say), then i’ll take you to dinner at bones. if they’re in, you owe me dinner at checkers. deal??

By illi-a-who?

February 28, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

why would the committee take a fifth BT team over a seventh ACC team when the BT is a whopping 3-11 against the ACC? jeeeezus, just because illinois has won some BT games in a conference that has the horrid loses as they did OOC, what do you expect?

illinois fans continue to be in denial after 04-05.

By Go Illini

February 28, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

GT is headed for 6-10 in their conference. Take a look at performance against common opponents like Penn St and Maryland, too. It’s not that hard to see why Illinois is in just about every one else’s projected bracket while GT is out of the same.

By bh

February 28, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

Isn’t that why there ia an ACC-BT challenge to prove BT is a very weak conference this year?

By Go Illini

February 28, 2007 6:07 PM | Link to this

Silly me. I thought the Challenge was a made for TV matchup that makes money for the schools, conferences and ESPN. Well, I guess we should cancel the rest of the season and award the national title to UNC. No need to play any other games in future years either.

By illi-a-who?

February 28, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

funny… you neglect to include purdue in there where illinois lost by 17 (on the road) whereas the ramblin wreck won by 18 (neutral floor).

they both beat PSU (GT at home; ILL on the road); and both lost to Maryland (ILL at home; GT on the road).

Ill’s signature victory was at home against Indiana. Other than that, their second best was at Bradley. Contrast this to GT’s against Memphis and Duke (plus a great opportunity tomorrow against UNC).

ACC has proven to be unambiguously better than the “Big” Ten this year (as in most) and will get the benefit of the doubt - at least relative to the Big[sic] Ten.

ILL fans continue to live in denial. If they lose at Iowa, they are in great peril. GT is not a lock by any means, but they are ahead of the Illini, and I would LOVE for them to play them on a neutral court.

By luvbama

February 28, 2007 7:36 PM | Link to this

Bama still in with an eleven seed? If we do not win our next two vs. Ole Miss and Miss. State, and it is highly unlikely without Ron Steele, we will not make the dance.

I love my Tide, but facts are facts.

By lojak

February 28, 2007 7:56 PM | Link to this

well well well…where are all those gators tonight. Got spanked and aren’t talking. Hmm-typical.Go Vols

By Haggis

February 28, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

North Carolina has not earned a number one seed. Hokies beat them TWICE. Maryland took them a few days ago.

By JP

March 1, 2007 4:23 AM | Link to this

Notre Dame - A TEN Seed? Consider the following:

“Supposedly Weak Non-Conference Schedule- Mike Brey scheduled the Elons and Citadels of the world because, in two of the past three seasons, his 18-12(ish) units have been the last team “out” after having scheduled murderer’s row. At the end of the day, the selection committee has shown the Irish that irrelevant wins are better than tough losses. As far as this season goes, lest you forget a win over Alabama (they’re on the right side of the bubble in your bracket) and a convincing ROAD win at Maryland (maybe the hottest team in America, but the actual quality of the wins they’re notching prove that they’re undoubtedly “for real”). A two point loss to Butler in the Preseason NIT cost the Irish a crack at the ‘big boys’ who participated in that tournament.

“Awful on the Road?” - They’re by no means dominant away from South Bend, but who is, outside of the “real” title contenders? Take a closer look at the schedule the Irish played, and you’ll find that their Maryland win, thanks to its being played at the MCI Center in Washington DC, is “officially” counted as a neutral game, NOT a road game. Then, take out a map of our great country and try to tell me that College Park, Maryland is equidistant to DC as is South Bend, Indiana. Though you certainly didn’t pay attention to this easily overlooked fact, I forgive you. While L’s to St. John’s and South Florida obviously sting (though it should be noted that these two games occurred directly after the loss of then-star Kyle McAlarney for the season), find me another defeat that proves this “road woe” theory. If losing by one point at DePaul still qualifies as a truly “bad” loss, then Georgia’s loss to Georgia Tech should be considered equally bad. Neither of the aforementioned losses are catastrophic, at least as far as the quality of the opposition - DePaul and Tech are both very solid teams. But I (almost) digress. Beating Rutgers on Saturday, coupled with winning even one game in the Big East Tourney (remember, their 11-5 conference record would give them that first round bye - even a solitary win would be worth a Big East Semifinal appearance) has to move Notre Dame up a spot or two (or three, or four, or five) in your seedings, right? I mean, at the moment, you’re giving this team (whose national rankings in the two polls are 17th and 22nd) a regional ten seed - are the Irish really the 40th best team in the tournament? Maybe you just haven’t seen them play - to quote Borat, America’s favorite Kazakh, “Please, you look!”

“Is the Big East as Bad in Hoops as it is in Football?” - With the exception of the ACC, I have trouble finding a conference with as much consistent quality as the Big East. Besides maybe Georgetown, the conference admittedly lacks a bona fide national title contender, but an SEC football fan such as yourself can attest to a “war of attrition” that often occurs over the course of league play. You give the Big East six bids, which I totally agree with (cbssportsline.com gives the league eight, for the record). That said, you give unranked Villanova a higher seed than the ranked Irish. Perhaps even more important than national rankings are conference standings, in which you’ll find the Irish clearly ahead of Villanova. The Wildcats did beat the Irish (in the midst of ND’s McAlarney hangover, so to speak), but if head to head matchups matter as much to you as they seem to (in particular, between teams more than one or two spots apart in conference standings), we’d essentially be giving a horrible Colorado team (6-19 overall) better chances of getting into the Tourney than bubble-about-to-burst Oklahoma State, whom the Buffaloes defeated “easily”. If you find this logic irrational, then why did you also grant Syracuse a ten seed despite losing handily (on their own court) to Notre Dame, AND having worse overall/conference records than those of the Irish? Furthermore, why isn’t ND seeded ahead of Louisville, whom the Irish beat comfortably? I know it’s an imprecise science, but as I look at your projections in this line of thinking, I understand your seedings as much as I understand the Croatian language.

“Do ‘Hot’ Teams Receive a Benefit of the Doubt that ‘Cold’ Teams Don’t?” - Obviously, they do, at least 99 percent of the time. You knock Air Force down to a 9 seed because of a bad week, despite the Falcons having absolutely dominated their opponents over the course of the season (for the record, I don’t think Air Force is as awesome as everyone thinks/thought they are/were, but their achievements this season possibly surpass those of a typical team deserving of a 9 seed). My point isn’t to disagree, though; I’m simply highlighting an example of people’s instinctive emphasis on current/’here and now’ results. If Florida was not an SEC team,I’d be willing to bet that you’d have seriously considered dropping them even lower than you did, but that’s a different argument for a different day (Just my two cents - Yes, you are biased because all you seem to know is the South. I don’t mean to offend you, because you gave me great SEC insight when I lived in Atlanta and read the Journal-Constitution, but when was the last time ESPN gave you face time to chat about the Washington Huskies or Missouri Tigers?). As far as Notre Dame goes in this ‘hot/cold’ logic, the win over Marquette last Saturday kept the Irish pretty darn hot.

“Trust the Computers or Trust the People?” - Neither are completely reliable: Had human polls counted for more than they did in last year’s BCS debate, we’d have seen Ohio State-Michigan Part II instead of Florida’s version of recruiting on live TV. The computers saw something in Florida that almost nobody else did, and I’m guessing that most neutrals watching were glad to see the “immortal” Buckeyes fall. Computers: 1 Humans: 0. However, had human polls counted for more in the BCS debate of three seasons ago, Auburn would have probably nipped Oklahoma to the title game (and rightfully so, not to stroke your SEC ego), and Oklahoma, if you can recall, didn’t exactly keep it close. Computers: 1, Humans: 1. All in all, despite the flaws of each, I’m generally inclined to prefer human polls, as the sheer number of voters usually cancels out the rogue, polarizing voters who always seem to pop up. As for the Irish - Human Ranking: 17/22 - RPI Rating: 32 - Your Seeding: 10? Notre Dame most likely belongs somewhere around 25th if you average the two polls, which should certainly be good for an “8 or better” ranking at the VERY least (especially considering the fact that they’re playing very good ball at the moment). If Georgia was 22-6 (10-5) with the exact same schedule, would you really give them a 10 seed? No, because they’re, ya know, Southern.

Should Notre Dame lose to Rutgers on Saturday, then get embarrassed in their first Big East Tourney game, the reality exists that ND might get a 10 seed on Selection Sunday - Considering their “lock” status, what would such a catastrophic week do to them in YOUR seedings? 13? 14? The play in game?

The Irish would be fortunate to make it out of the opening weekend of the NCAA Tournament, all things considered, but 11-5 in the Big East HAS to count for more than a 10 seed. Thanks for reading.

By Mark Bittner

March 1, 2007 7:55 AM | Link to this

East Tennessee State University will be the surprise team of the tournament.

By Matt

March 1, 2007 7:56 AM | Link to this

JP, you need to get a job or something. Nice thesis.

By JP

March 1, 2007 8:06 AM | Link to this

Matt, I have an awesome job that pays a motherload of money and still affords me time to be a sports geek. Have fun at work today!

By Roswell Ed

March 1, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

What is worse?

Notre Dame fans?

Yankee Fans?

Cowboy fans?

Alabama fans?

And JP being paid to do men may pay good but it’s nothing to be proud of now is it?

By uranidiot

March 1, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

illi-a-who? your an idiot for several reasons. 1. Illinois has 21 wins and 9 wins in conference. 2. GT is 6-8 in conference, with losses at Miami and Wake Forest, and at best will be 7-9 but most likely be 6-10. 3. The ACC is overrated, they have UNC and Maryland and thats it. BC and VT will be out in the sweet 16, and Virginia will be soon after. Duke sux they will be lucky to get the sweet 16. 4. The Big 10, by percentages, is the hardest conference to win on the road, conversely the ACC is one of the easiest, so where does your losses at Miami and Wake tell you about your team? 5. I am not saying Illinois is going to win the Title but last time I checkd the Big 10 has 2 of the top 5 teams in the nation not the ACC. 6. You obviously have no idea about anything pertaining to NCAA basketball.

By Blacksburger

March 1, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

The Big 10 is nothing without its top 2. You talk about the ACC not being legit - how’d that ACC/Big 10/11 challenge end up?

Mr. Barnhart, how on Earth do you have Duke as a 3 and VT as a 5? Duke’s SOS is so overrated. Sure, they played Marquette, Indiana, Air Force and Georgetown, but that puts them two seeds above a team with a better mark in ACC play, that beat them on their own floor?

By GT

March 1, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

Who is going to win the ACC tournament? If Carolina doesn’t they don’t get that number one seed and maybe just maybe the ACC is chair less in this musical. It does the NCAA some good to parade sections of the country as the real thing in sport and invite them to the dance, but to pretend that fat Ms. Dakota is as pretty as Ms. Georgia is an entirely different deal. People go south or stay south for college athletics, more so in football but more and more in basketball. We went through this same bull in football with the old guard pushing Ohio State and Michigan. No one wanted to give it up to Florida or Auburn or LSU. They had felt Florida got into the final football game by hooky spooky. A guy gets paid hundreds of thousand if not millions of dollars a year to push an agenda that holds no water to get the northeast rust belt or the Midwest French lick to watch their show. In the end you may put one southern team in the tournament and the rest from the polluted cold north or the unpopulated west and that one team will make the final four, if you put two and they are situated in the right brackets there’s your championship game

By gatordad

March 2, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this

Lojak, just grow up and quit acting so high and mighty just because you love to see the Gators lose…hey, they slumped last year at this time and…well, you might remember how that came out… Don’t be so quick to gloat…(we know whooyu are cheering against, but who are YOU cheering for?