AJC > Sports > Blog > Archives > 2005 > August > 15 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USNCAA begins backpedaling on misguided mascot ruling
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Some common sense will still have to prevail, but it looks like the NCAA will be able to backpedal and scramble its way out of what has become a huge public relations disaster. The problem began when its all-powerful Executive Committee told 18 schools they would be banned from post-season play unless they changed their use of Native American imagery.
Since the announcement on Aug. 5, the NCAA has hurriedly put together an appeals process for the individual schools. NCAA President Myles Brand now insists that the committees involved in the decision weren’t out to punish these schools but rather wanted to “take the high road” and begin a dialogue on an important issue.
This decision did neither. What it almost did, and still could do if not handled properly, is spark a revolution.
For a long time the 70-plus schools that compete at the highest level of college athletics have wondered if they should break off from the NCAA (which represents over 1,250 institutions) and form their own, more streamlined organization. The NCAA’s decision, if it stands, could raise that issue again.
“If that (Division I-A schools breaking off) ever happened, it would probably be over something as silly as this,” said T.K. Wetherell, the president at Florida State.
Many years ago the NCAA changed its governance structure in order to give Division I-A schools (those in the ACC, SEC, etc.) almost total autonomy over their affairs when it comes to legislation. But the Native American ruling came under the heading of “policy,” which applies to all levels of the NCAA.
Thus, Florida State’s right to use Native American imagery, which it has done since 1947, was decided by a 19-member committee that included representatives from St. Leo, Central Missouri State, and Plattsburgh State. Of the 19 members on the executive committee, only seven represent the major Division I-A conferences.
Of even greater concern, if you’re Florida State, is the makeup of the two committees that put together the actual policy that was eventually approved by the executive committee.
The Minority Opportunities and Issues Committee, which began the process, has 15 members. Only two represent Division I-A. The rest are from Division I-AA or lower.
The executive committee subcommittee on Gender and Diversity Issues has 11 members. There are no representatives from the major conferences. In fact, the largest school in the room when these recommendations were formed was Middle Tennessee State.
But here are the two biggest reasons that the NCAA is re-thinking the issue:
*The committees didn’t do their homework. When asked to explain their stance on Florida State, given the fact that the Seminole Tribe of Florida had given its blessing to the school, the NCAA’s response was that “other” Seminole tribes did not like the imagery. There is only one other Seminole tribe, in Oklahoma.
Yes, the committee did get some letters from David Narcomey, a member of the Oklahoma tribe’s General Council, who condemned the use of Native American imagery by sports teams. But if either of these committees had done its job, it would have discovered that the General Council voted 18-2 last month to uphold the use of such imagery. That fact never made it to the Executive Committee. Oops.
*There was never any finding of fact that Florida State’s use of Seminole imagery was “hostile and abusive,” which is how the committee labeled it. It never asked the Florida Seminole Tribe how it felt. It never picked up the phone and asked Florida State to give its point of view. It looked at a set of facts written on a piece of paper and made a call, a bad one.
These two NCAA committees have some very important work to do. The fact that there are only three black Division I-A football coaches is a national embarrassment. There are far too few people of color in athletic administration. These are real problems that need real solutions from thoughtful people.
But this decision has set back those noble goals and has made the NCAA the butt of too many jokes. Future efforts at inclusion and justice will be dismissed by some as just another round of “political correctness” because of this colossal misjudgment. And that’s sad.
These committees are made up of some very smart people. Unfortunately, their final decision showed a lack of common sense and fundamental fairness.
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By Richard Chupp
August 16, 2005 08:58 AM | Link to this
Tony, Thanks for supplying the background. This was a topic of confusion the other night for several of the high school boys who were over at the house. I struggled to provide them with a logical reason. When something like this happens which defies all logic and common sense you can almost be sure that somewhere there is a payoff involved or some self-appointed body is trying to justify their own existance. Seems to me these people were trying to meet some presumed policy quota.
The only other thing that comes to mind is that they felt left out of Bernard Goldberg’s best seller “100 People Who are Screwing Up America”.
By Anthony
August 16, 2005 09:51 AM | Link to this
This is just one more reason to scrap the NCAA. The Minority Opportunities and Issues Committee and The executive committee subcommittee on Gender and Diversity should not even exsist. The Schools hire who they feel will be best for their program. That is exactly how it should be. Someones skin tone or sex is not an issue.
By Terry Townsend
August 16, 2005 09:59 AM | Link to this
At what point and time do people quit being politically correct and use some common sense? I’ll spare the application of this policy to the Fighting Irish, but where does it stop? Soon PETA will lobby for the removal of all animal mascots because it is cruel and unusual, or creates a hostile environment. All I know, is that I spent five years in Tallahasse, and when Chief Osceola was riding Renegade onto the field, flaming spear in hand, no one I was around was mocking indians or slinging demeaning epitaphs. We where getting pumping up for the start of the game. It is that plain and simple.
By Rob Staples
August 16, 2005 10:01 AM | Link to this
It’s a shame that an institution such as Florida State is forced to defend its mascot after the school has spent so many years working to uphold the integrity of the Seminole tribe. From Chief Osceola’s attire to the support of college bound Seminole tribe members, Florida State clearly is not “hostile and abusive”.
Hopefully the NCAA can begin to focus on the real issues facing collegiate athletics and not attack the traditions of its member schools.
By walt
August 16, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this
Just another example of how not to run an organization,from this situation to the total lack of proper process in dealing with rules compliance to not even following NCAA bylaws in dealing with member schools! They determine the result desired and so rule!! The 1A schools should leave the NCAA now!
By Don Joiner
August 16, 2005 10:11 AM | Link to this
If there is a better argument for tort reform than this, I’d like to hear it. I just wish our judges had the backbone the tell the attorneys bringing these cases before the court, that the court’s time is too precious to waste on determining whether a mascot hurts someones feelings.
By Tom Williams
August 16, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this
The root of the problem is not only the tail (small schools) wagging the dog (NCAA) but also the control of “academics”. The vast majority of these fuzzy thinkers can not and could not survive in the for profit world. Their need to be all things to all people only creates confusion and instability. It may sound noble, but facing facts gets in the way. There is, as in all things, a hierarchy. If you can not compete then get out. Changing rules to create “competition” doesn’t work. The cream will always rise to the top. Straining at gnats is what the NCAA does best. I could probably take any mascot name and find some group who would claim it offends them.
By Clay
August 16, 2005 10:59 AM | Link to this
It appears that they have decided on school mascots in the exact same manner they decide on the National Championship in football. Uninformed administrators telling others what is best for them. Looks like a trend to me.
By Ken
August 16, 2005 11:03 AM | Link to this
A letter i sent to the NCAA:
Dear NCAA,
As a high school history teacher, I consider myself knowledgeable on the Native American culture of today and yesterday. The recent legislation passed by your body, barring native American nicknames from school in championship events is silly and a waste of time. Data shows that Native Americans really don’t care about being politically correct or that the names of their tribes are being used or even that a man dresses up like a native American and dances on a football field or basketball court. Its just another misstep of this administration which should be focusing on the behavior of student athletes on campus’ instead of the mascots. Any don’t get me started on the hypocrisy of adding a 12th game to college football schedules, but a play-off would hurt the students missing class (even though they are on winter break)….
The ball is in your court. The court of public opinion. You can see the short term (as with the above stated legislation regarding nicknames and adding a 12th regular season football game)
OR
You can listen to your customers, the ones who clamor for mentoring programs for the athletes, the ones who want a football play-off which could pay for the faculty mentoring positions. Because sadly, if things do not change, the money pit will dry up, and you will have to make these changes out of financial necessity, not because it is the right thing to do.
By Bill Holmes
August 16, 2005 11:13 AM | Link to this
FSU did the right thing by getting Florida Seminole Tribal approval, and FSU definitely brings honor and respect to the name, so that’s all fine and I’m good with it, but Tony, please give a little respect and understanding to the Oklahoma Seminole, since his Ancestors were forcibly removed from their Homeland by Andrew Jackson and his devastating ‘Trail Of Tears’…..and this was done only after the ‘Red Stick’ Creek uprising in support of Tecumseh’s personal request to the Creeks and Cherokees to join him in an ‘all Tribe’, all out war against the whites in this country, but the vast majority of the Creeks and Cherokees rebuked Tecumseh and his famous red stick at joint council near Montgomery and sent him back north….when the radical, Tecumseh leaning faction known as the ‘Red Stick’ Creeks pulled away from the mainstream Creek Nation and started their own war and attacked Fort Mimbs,near Mobile, Jackson recruited the highly respected Cherokee Warriors from north Georgia to help mount an attack at Horseshoe Bend on the Tallapoosa River where the ‘Red Sticks’ had set up camp, north of Auburn….The Cherokees pulled a dramatic sneak attack from the south shore of the river, swimming across and stealing the ‘Red Stick’ canoes and transporting, stealthfully, the entire Cherokee force across the river, and then destroyed the ‘Red Sticks’ in a dramatic night battle in the ‘Red Stick’ camp on the north shore of the river while General Jackson waited, safely, to the north of the ‘Red Stick’ camp, and then only came in to perform minor clean up and to claim victory after the battle was so skillfully won by the Cherokees….And then, and this is the main part, as the Cherokees stayed to do honor to those they had killed in time honored, appropriate Indian post battle ceremonies which disturbed Jackson, since he couldn’t understand them, Jackson and his Tenneseans left and went ahead of the Cherokees through North Georgia Cherokee villages on their way back to Tennessee and BURNED AND PILLAGED THE CHEROKEE VILLAGES where their Cherokee Volunteers lived and had come from, just so as the powerful Cherokees wouldn’t get too ‘uppity’ after they would get back home, a cowardly and despicable act buried in American history, performed by cowardly, mean, misguided and despicable men….So Tony, I can understand the hostility still in the Oklahoma Seminole, given that, sometime after the southern Indians had offered up peaceful coexistence with whites, Andrew Jackson initiated his ‘Trail Of Tears’, where so many Native American Human Beings were, against their will, herded with scant provisions in a manner that caused much pain, sickness and death, to the Oklahoma in which your referenced complainer resides, and Indian history, much as the history of any losers in war, does not forget the atrocities… and in time the history will be straightened out and laid to rest since the victor always writes the history, which is usually riddled with innaccuracies that researchers eventually correct…By the way Tony, I met you back when Ray was coach in Athens…I used to help & hang with those guys and Jim and other successive coaches as well and still do when I can, helped Jim & Vince with the weight room and continue to support the Dogs. Mark is a friend and a great coach, and I’m happy as can be to have him in Athens… I really enjoy your writing and couldn’t agree more about the ridiculous makeup of the NCAA committees, which improperly represent and legislate Division 1A schools. Thank You.
Bill Holmes
By Boclive
August 16, 2005 11:58 AM | Link to this
Forget the mascot, FSU FANS should all dress up as Chief Osceola at all FSU games from now on!
By Gary Roberts
August 16, 2005 12:10 PM | Link to this
I have no comment about the recent hue and cry over the Indian mascot issue, but people should stop talking about the major Division I-A schools breaking away from the NCAA. It will never happen. Right now these schools are allowed to maintain that the athletes who produce major college football and basketball are just ordinary students, not employees, and thereby these athletic programs do not have to comply with labor laws, OSHA laws, workers’ compensation laws, antitrust laws, tax laws, and a bunch of other legal requirments that the NFL and other employers have to meet because they are part of the NCAA, which includes the smaller non-athletic factory schools. If the major schools broke away, they would be acknowledging that their athletic programs are primarily in the sports entertainment business, not the education business, and all of these legal rules would kick in and have a huge impact on their ability to function as they always have. These schools understand this full well, so this is simply an idle threat. The media and everyone else should stop taking it seriously.
By Tom
August 16, 2005 12:26 PM | Link to this
It should be just a matter of time that the NCAA executive committee address the actual “make-up” of athletic teams fielded. Teams should represent the ethnic ratio or “make-up” of the student body it represents.
The Committee needs to get involved with “affirmative action” on the playing field. Actual teams fielded should represent the makeup or ratio of the student body of the school the “team” represents.
By Ray
August 16, 2005 01:05 PM | Link to this
If the NCAA wants to do something for Native Americans perhaps they should dip into their bank account and fund something that might contribute to educational and health care programs, just to suggest two worthy fields.
By LeVar
August 16, 2005 01:45 PM | Link to this
Personally I think it is a valid point to do away with the mascots. Everyone just brings up FSU, but there are other schools who don’t have this same relationship. I think the thing that is lost in all this is the fact that their mascots are “a people”. I mean can anyone honestly say that if the tide was turned and in a case like mine, if someone’s mascot was the “Blackmen” there wouldn’t be outrage? How is there a difference? I don’t see one.
By Nick Infante
August 16, 2005 02:05 PM | Link to this
Mr. Barnhart-
I am emailing to complement you on your fine commentary that ran in on 8-15-05 – “NCAA begins backpedaling on misguided mascot ruling.�
I am the founder and editor of a one-and-a-half year website entitled College Athletics Clips. Designed specifically for presidents, athletic directors, coaches and college athletics administrators, Clips provides executive summaries of college athletics news and issues.
I would like to reprint your commentary (in its entirety and with full attribution) on Clips in the Guest Commentary section; which is one of the more visited sections of the site. Your piece would be in good company. Recent Clips guest commentary authors have included Dan Guerrero (UCLA AD), Vince Dooley (Georgia AD), Scott Cowen (Tulane president), Floyd Keith (Exec. Director of the Black Coaches Assn), Sue Reimer (Baltimore Sun), David Gelernter (LA Times) and Carol Spezak (Chicago Sun-Times).
Chiefs Illiniwek and Osceola have become the twin eyes of the swirling storm regarding school mascots. They represent all that’s bad – and good – about college sports, the winner-take-all mentality and American arrogance.
In order to help you decide whether Clips is legit, I invite you to take advantage of a 1-week free trial subscription. Just log on at www.collegeathleticsclips.com and follow the prompts. If you have any trouble accessing the site, please email me or call me at the number below.
Thanks in advance for your consideration.
Nick Infante
College Athletics Clips
908.879.9978
nick@collegeathleticsclips.com
By George
August 16, 2005 03:40 PM | Link to this
It’s easy to resist change, dig your heels in and say, that the idea is wrong and the NCAA is off its rocker. That is your view. But I see it differently, and I hope you can take the time to hear me out.
Tony, although you are not offended by the FSU mascot, and / or other hostile and abusive mascots, I am, and there are some people, as a matter of fact, a lot of people that are. I would hope that you considering using your journalistic persuasiveness to provide facts and initiate and embrace positive change instead of further insulting people that read your columns with diminutive, rearward thinking.
Think of this: America would not allow a team to be called the Washington Darkskins, so why do we accept the name of Washington Redskins?
Answer: Because change is oftentimes painful, and usually expensive, and if I’m not the one who is offended, then I don’t have to care.
The easy way out is to jump on the proverbial Keep It The Way It Is wagon. The arduous way is to support a change for the better, no mater the risk. If FSU and the other 17 Institutions do not even try to take their foot off of first base, they will never get to second.
By Jim Clare
August 16, 2005 04:25 PM | Link to this
i don’t know if anyone will read this but i will offer my comments on what it is like to be a native american student at a high school with indian mascots.
i had to face students and teachers who demanded that they be allowed to ‘honor’ indian people. where was this honor? they took only the savage inhuman image for their teams. they disparaged indian people who did not agree with them on the mascot issue. did we learn about indians as we were the — indians, no we only learned about indian massacres of whites. during homecoming i would see opposing teams with signs saying ‘scalp the indians’ or ‘kill the savages’.
to all of you who demand the use of our history for your teams, ask ‘where is the honor’
By EVANS GLEATON
August 16, 2005 04:26 PM | Link to this
SINCE WHEN DID THE INDIAN NATION OBTAIN LICENSE TO THE WORD ‘WARRIOR’? WHEN DID IT BECOME ‘HOSTILE’ TO TAG A NAME ILLUSTRATING COURAGE OR A FIERCE DEMEANOR TO YOUR SPORT AND TEAM OF CHOICE? AND SINCE WHEN DID MINORITY OPINION DOMINATE THE WISHES OF THE MAJORITY? AREN’T THERE MORE SERIOUS ISSUES TO DEBATE? PLEASE, COME TO YOUR SENSES NCAA.
By frank
August 16, 2005 04:56 PM | Link to this
Finally, the NCAA is heading in the right direction. It’s not about political correctness. It’s about RESPECT to the Indigenous Nation. We don’t want to be your mascots in your sports culture.
By Jim
August 16, 2005 09:15 PM | Link to this
Dear All I am one Native American person that is put off and offended by American Indian images, nicknames and mascots associated with sports teams. The issue is offensive to many of us.
Although we may be smaller in number it is still not right to disrespect a few people and their culture to please the majority. A wrong is a wrong and disrespect is direspect, even when it is done to a small group of people.
No other culture or religion would tolerate its special sacred items (such as feathers are to many tribes)to be misused and disrespected as mascots in sports portray them.
Mascots in sports also often mock and belittle Native American dance, the people and the culture. Mascots support stereotypes about American Indian people - wrong is wrong, even when the wrong is popular in some circles. If a behavior is disrepectful toward a few, the majority should listen and respond to do the right thing. The young people are watching and learning from us adults. The goofy images as logos, the mockery on the dancing, the dressing up as if, and the other antics and stereotyping must stop! These images and behaviors are a play on a people and their rich culture and should not be a part of any game or sport or any public school mascot. American Indian people have been through enough in history and they have much to overcome today, including the highest high school drop out rate of any ethnic group in the U.S., extreme rates of alcoholism, extremely high rates of unemployment, suicide and other social ills.
Let’s do the right thing on this topic so we can move on and focus on the deeper concerns within American Indian communities.
Education Director Yurok Tribe
By Roe
August 16, 2005 10:16 PM | Link to this
Looks like the NCAA and the Georgia BOR are being run with the same syntax.
By Kevin
August 16, 2005 10:59 PM | Link to this
Mr Holmes,
PULEAZ!!
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ……..Compendiously, just give me some common sense and some freakin’ FOOTBALL!!
By allen rice
August 17, 2005 08:03 AM | Link to this
It is good to see that two out of three AJC sports reporters see the ridiculous nature of the NCAA’s ruling. It is no surprise to see Mr. Moore taking the opposite, liberal, “politically correct” stance. Hopefully, more intelligent minds will prevail.
By Rod
August 17, 2005 11:05 AM | Link to this
Bill Holmes, are you awake? Hello, Did you bother to read all of Tony’s article about the NCAA decision before you went of ranting and raving? In your statement, you talked (on and on) about the Oklahoma Seminole being upset - again, did you read his article? He told you that the Oklahoma Seminole General Council voted 18 - 2 in favor of Florida State’s use of the name. Pay attention or go back to sleep!
By Rob Schmidt
August 17, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this
Some relevant links:
http://floridastate.scout.com/2/422971.html
http://www.racismagainstindians.org/Resolutions/Resolutions_FiveCivilizedTribes.htm
http://aistm.org/2000peoria.htm
http://www.bluecorncomics.com/mascots.htm
By Rob Schmidt
August 17, 2005 11:29 AM | Link to this
Rod, are you reading the news critically? Tony Barnhart misstated the facts about the Oklahoma Seminole vote. The tribal council didn’t vote to SUPPORT FSU’s use of the name. It voted not to OPPOSE FSU’s use of the name. In other words, the tribe voted to remain NEUTRAL—at least so far. That’s a big difference from giving FSU its support.
By Jason
August 17, 2005 11:33 AM | Link to this
Why is it offensive for a sports team to be called the Seminoles? Teams are named after something or someone who can motivate and stir up pride in the team’s following. Nobody in their right mind is going to name their team “the losers”, because that would obviously not be very inspirational. As for being offended by a team’s mascot name, that’s your right, but I don’t understand. If a team was named the “whiteys” I wouldn’t be offended. Oh, that’s right, I can’t be offended because I’m not a minority. Shouldn’t people be proud that their group is deemed important and revered enough for someone to name their team after it? I can understand being upset if your traditions are mocked, but this legislation has nothing to do with whether each institution gives proper respect to the group it’s chosen as its mascot, but rather makes a sweeping generalization that none of the schools are able to give proper respect simply because they are not composed of native americans. Just because a school has more than a certain arbitrary percentage of its student population made up of native americans does not mean that any more respect is afforded, nor any fewer people offended, than a school which does not have as high of a percentage. If this were the case, then by the same logic a majority of the charities in this country should be closed down simply because the administration isn’t made up of enough of the people group they’re helping. If you want to be offended when someone is actually making fun of your group, then attack that specific event, but don’t attack the use of your group completely. I’d be honored if someone decided to name a team after me. Although “the Jasons” just doesn’t have the right ring to it…
By gary
August 17, 2005 07:41 PM | Link to this
TO Jason and ALL, I too hate the PC world we now live in,and at first laughed at the NCAA’s ruling, however this is not a PC issue. Plese read the blogs from actual Native American’s, if they are being offended, the schools should stop. This is racisim! Jason says he would not be offended by a team named the “Whitey’s” I am also a white American and at first agreed that “I” would not be offended. However what if my 9 year old son was white and when to a school that was 98 percent Native American and .05% white and the team mascost was the “whitey’s”…. Jason , I think you and I and many others would be on the door step of that school screamming foul!
By Paul R. Kelley, M.D.
August 18, 2005 12:16 AM | Link to this
The FSU, NCAA battle is another battle in the cultural revolution. It is time for the big football schools to pull out of the autocratic, politically correct NCAA and form it’s own association. I hate bullies and guess where my loyalties are here! Give me free choice any day over diversity. I’ll take American tradition every time against multiculturalism. The left in this country, the liberals that run most but not all, thanks TK of our institutions of higher learning don’t seem to sense that change is in the air. They failed to sense the rot in the Clinton White House and look what happened. Republican domination of congress and the White House. They have the propaganda from the major networks and most of the print press and what is happening? They still can’t get their head out of their rears. Rejoice, the revolution is a big step closer. Universities with some common sense left, leave the NCAA and rejoin America. And, of yes, GO NOLES!
By Adam
August 18, 2005 01:19 AM | Link to this
look, it is plain and simple and does not need to go beyond that. The seminole tribes have given FSU there full blessing to use the name “Seminoles” where is the issue? Some people try and creat an issue because they think it is unfair, well the people that it has a direct effect on, don’t have a problem, so we shouldn’t make one. Secondly whether you agree or disagree with the NCAA, there is a huge issue forgotten here. The fact that the NCAA sanctioned video game “NCAA 2006” has a commercial that features a Seminole player. I think it is down right awful that they will term the name Seminole to be offensive and abusive and then turn around and make money off of that same logo. That doesn’t make sense. Why should the school not be able to use the name but the NCAA can make money off of it, even on their website they sell FSU gear. The NCAA has screwed up on this one big time, in every way possible they have screwed up!
By John
August 18, 2005 05:46 AM | Link to this
The NCAA is a total joke! This is an organization that on one hand, ignores recruiting violations by a particular SEC school in a state that has its capital city called Atlanta, yet seems intent on imposing a harsh punishment on the ACC school in that same state for some paperwork mixup.
No wonder people don’t take them seriously.
John
By APT
August 18, 2005 08:51 AM | Link to this
Hey John,
I also wish that Tennessee would quit illegally recruiting players out of a certain state with a city named Atlanta! I guess academic fraud for players to remain eligible at a certain ACC school in Atlanta can be deemed a “paperwork mixup” if you want to cover up your school’s indiscretions.
By Andy
August 18, 2005 05:14 PM | Link to this
As an FSU alum, I’ve never heard of any protest by any Native Americans that the use of the Seminole nickname and mascot was ‘hostile and abusive’. I also totally disagree with the liberal mindset of a few (including Terrance Moore) who feel if even one person is offended by a mascot then the school should change their mascot. I find the Executive Committee of the NCAA to be totally out of touch with the majority of main stream Americans and insulated within a group of ultra-politically correct pompus academic elites. It should be up to the individual Division I-A schools to determine which mascots there Atheletic teams use. I’ve very happy that the FSU President, TK Wetherall is not taking the NCAA’s decision lying down and has vowed to fight them on this ridiculous ruling.
GO NOLES!
By Russell
August 19, 2005 08:20 AM | Link to this
My Great Grandmother is full blooded Cherokee, she told me it was an honor using Native American slogans if they were in a positive light. However, I wonder when the Christians will band together to pressure Duke, Arizona St, etc to dump the “Devils” name. Since that promotes evil and sin. How about the Wake Forest “Demon Deacons”? Contradiction in terms. As well as the New Orleans “Saints”. We can’t have Saints associated with a violent sport like football. Are all Irish considered “Fighting Irish”? Looks like Hurricane victims might get offended by the U. of Miami. Maybe every group and organization will rise up agaisnt every nickname and then all the schools will be forced to drop the nicknames and then there will be none.
By Fred
August 19, 2005 11:21 AM | Link to this
Last time I checked, this country was a democracy, if only by word. Part of that means that rules and judgements are made by the majority vote of a representative body. If the body isn’t representative of the population it serves, then change the makeup of the representation. Otherwise, the majority opinion holds, and makes the rules. How much of this hand wringing and sorrowful wailing about “minorities’ rights” will there be when white males become the “minority” in this country? Face reality people… those in power have no interest in relinquishing it to the people who suffer while they prosper. Quit looking for solutions to problems that make everyone involved happy. They don’t exist. Those with the power win, those without it lose. If you are one of the ones without power… you’re screwed, live with it.
By Chuck_Uuga
August 19, 2005 04:29 PM | Link to this
Wow, John. Guess that is the best you can offer. Accuse Georgia of cheating since that MUST be the reason they are successful. I’m sure it has nothing to do with the quality coaching staff.
By Andy
August 19, 2005 06:35 PM | Link to this
The background is excellent. Since this brings up an issue of the “70” or so schools possibly breaking off, can you provide us with a scenario or a present-day situation if this would have happened during the CFA’s hay-day in the late 70s and early 80s.
By Annette
August 19, 2005 08:03 PM | Link to this
I’ll tell you what guys…let’s solve everyone’s PC issues. Let’s name all of the teams with numbers…no that would p** someone off, too. Team Number 20 would want to be Team Number 1. Ok…let’s try the alphabet. No, that wouldn’t work either…Team Z would want to be Team A. Ok…let’s try colors. Yet again that wouldn’t appease everyone. Someone would find Team Red, Green, Purple, Blue, Black, etc. offensive. The moral of the story…”You can’t please everyone!” Someone is going to cry wolf, racism, or competitive disadvantage no matter what efforts are set forth. Get over it!!! Team mascots are chosen, because schools have faith and believe that the mascot is a prominent, respectable, and trustworthy figure. Schools do not set out to discriminate or disrupt cultures of people. Geez!
By Bill Holmes
August 19, 2005 11:59 PM | Link to this
Rod..Whatever your last name is, Obviously you did not wake up and read my comments, in which I said I was OK with the use of the Seminole name…and yes I saw the 18 to 2 vote by Oklahoma Seminoles, wow your so brilliant….I simply was relaying some history that I’m quite certain you did not know…why don’t you be a decent human and give me your last name and phone number…mine is 251-747-0106….I’ve done as much to help promote college football as anyone you’ll ever know and I said I liked Tony’s article….You are the drowsy one…Please call me, I’m sure you’re just a little confused,,,,Thanks, bill Holmes
By Bill Holmes
August 20, 2005 12:06 AM | Link to this
Kevin….What is your last name and phone number…I would love to talk directly to your brilliance and absorb some of your wonderful wit…Please call me at 251-747-0106…Thanks, Bill Holmes
By Steven Chappelle
August 21, 2005 09:30 AM | Link to this
I vehemently disagree with the guy who wrote in saying we should forget encouraging schools from leaving the NCAA…”It will never happen”. Well it won’t with that attitude. But membership in that dumb, corrupt org is voluntary…and I think the SEC should get the ball rolling and get the heck out…NOW!!! Thanks, Steven Chappelle Duluth (WAR EAGLE!)
By chris
August 22, 2005 09:47 AM | Link to this
New York Yankees, Boston Celtics, Notre Dame Fighting Irish, New Orleans Saints, Wake Forest Deamon Deacons, on and on and on.
What a bunch of hypocrites to say the use of Indian Mascot names is intended to demean and does demean. None of the other religous or ethnic groups listed above have a problem with their symbols being used…
By David F
August 22, 2005 09:49 AM | Link to this
I agree with the NCAA, FSU’s use of the Seminole as their Mascot is Abusive and Hostile. FSU should change its mascot to The Flaming Spear Chuckers. I hope the League of Olympic Javelin Atheletes or the Association of Flame Twirling Majorettes does not protest. You have to laugh at the politically correct idiots!
By NativeTallahasseean
August 22, 2005 02:36 PM | Link to this
How about the Florida State Tulip Pickers?
By Kevin
August 25, 2005 02:04 AM | Link to this
Dear Bill,
You AIN’T getting my phone number nor should you expect a call. After your dissertational spew, I shudder to think of being tied up on the phone with ya. Furthermore, I doubt that you could absorb much of anything. Sounds like you’re already chock-full of yourself.