Home > Political Insider > Archives > 2008 > November > 19 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USClinton at Clark: He finishes with a defense of Max Cleland
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
6:20 p.m. Former President Bill Clinton just gave a blistering defense of former U.S. Sen. Max Cleland, who’s in the crowd.
Cleland was defeated by Republican Saxby Chambliss in 2002.
Clinton made a direct reference to the TV ad campaign run by Chambliss six years ago.
“When I saw someone wanting a Senate seat so bad that he accused Max of endangering the national security of this county,” Clinton said. “But people were afraid. They stopped thinking.”
“Now you’re supposed to be afraid of what you just voted for,” he said.
And with that, Clinton ended his speech, heading to a fund-raiser. And the rest of us are headed for someplace warm.
6:10 p.m. Former President Bill Clinton continued: “This election is essential for the things that you want out of this administration.
“Martin’s the bridge. Chambliss is the firewall. It’s not rocket science,” he said. “I will give his opponent this — he has honestly stated his case.”
6:02 p.m. Former President Bill Clinton and Democrat Jim Martin, the U.S. Senate candidate, just walked out into the chilly sunset on the Clark Atlanta University quad.
Former U.S. senator Max Cleland, who was defeated by Republican Saxby Chambliss in 2002, is also here.
“Saxby Chambliss believes he ought to be the firewall,” Martin said. “Georgia deserves better than that.”
The wind is picking up, and it’s cold. Shouts of “We love you, Bill” are coming from the crowd.
Said Clinton:
“I have an enormous affection for Georgia. Because I like Jim Martin a lot. Because I think his opponent was running on a false premises when he run, and is running on false premises again.
“This country doesn’t need a firewall against the future. It needs a bridge to the future.\
“You can win this thing if you want it bad enough. You just have to decide how bad you want it. Two weeks ago the American people voted for change…”
5:52 p.m.Former President Bill Clinton’s in the building in front, where it’s nice and warm. Three thousand or so very cold people await outside.
5:22 p.m. Here’s a generational difference between Democrats and Republicans right now.
A speaker just asked the crowd at the Jim Martin for U.S. Senate rally to pull out their cell phones. “Everyone put their cell phones in the air. Now dial somebody,” he said. A friend, a co-worker. Tell them about the election. He emphasized the Dec. 2 date.
And, looking around, people were actually doing it.
Still no Bill Clinton. Soon, they say. Local TV is getting very antsy. The six o’clock window is approaching very fast.
Spectator point: There’s a sign in the crowd. “Kurds for Obama,” it says.
5:01 p.m. Former President Bill Clinton just landed, and is on his way, promised state Labor Commissioner Michael Thurmond, the first official to greet the crowd and try to get them warm and active.
“Finish the drill. Close the deal,” Thurmond shouted.
Thurmond, a vice chairman in the state Democratic party, boosted U.S. Senate candidate Jim Martin and Public Service Commission candidate Jim Powell. Both are in statewide runoffs.
“The only way that Jim and Jim don’t win is if we don’t vote,” he said. “They are hoping, they are praying that we don’t go back to the polls.”
Thurmond is the party’s most reliably effective speaker, and did a good job. But he also tried to lead the crowd in a song. He’s a good speaker.
4:47 p.m. The program has started with a volunteer is confessin’ to being raised Republican.
She’s talking against deficits, noting John McCain’s victory here on Nov. 4. “This is our do-over. We didn’t get it right the first time,” the speaker just said.
She’s also stalling.
Jim Martin, the Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate for whom this event is to benefit, is here, but hasn’t been seen. Former President Bill Clinton isn’t here. But he’ll be at a fund-raiser afterwards. Don’t know where, or the dollar amount.
The press is working on a crowd estimate. The warm gymnasium, where this was originally scheduled, held 1,200. Crowd is perhaps three times that.
4:32 p.m. This gathering at Clark Atlanta University just became a larger part of a quickly shrinking political season. In Alaska, Republican incumbent Ted Stevens, convicted on seven felony counts, just conceded his loss to a Democrat.
Democrats are now up to 58 seats in the U.S. Senate, with a Minnesota recount and a Georgia runoff to go.
This from National Public Radio:
“Given the number of ballots that remain to be counted, it is apparent the election has been decided and Mayor Begich has been elected,” Stevens said.
4:20 p.m. Greetings from a cold quadrangle at Clark Atlanta University.
Program is to begin in 20 minutes. But former President Bill Clinton doesn’t have the best reputation for punctuality, so we could be in for a wait.
A long, long line of several thousand people, stretched over hundred yards, is wrapped around the quad. So the audience hasn’t been allowed in close yet. But this looks to be at least a slightly larger event than the Saxby Chambliss rally last week that headlined former Republican presidential candidate John McCain.
This event was originally scheduled for a nice, warm gymnasium inside. The Jim Martin campaign pushed it outside for a reason.
Scratch that stuff about lines. The crowd was just unleashed, and is now running toward the barricades behind the press section.
The Morris Brown drum line is banging away…..
Services »
Comments
By RL
November 19, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Dems have 58 including VT and CN senators
By RL
November 19, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
Sorry that is VT and CT not CN
By jacksmith
November 19, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
WE HAVE MORE TO DO:
Democrat Jim Martin is in a runoff against Bush Republican Saxby Chambliss for the Senate seat from Georgia. Bush’s Saxby Chambliss voted against spending a few measly dollars to provide health care coverage for Georgia, and Americas needy children. But he supported wasting hundreds of billions of your dollars, and the life BLOOD of Americas finest on an unnecessary war in Iraq.
At a time when 47 million of you have no health insurance coverage, and over 100 million of you with insurance are just one major illness away from complete financial destruction. Bush and Saxby Chambliss voted to make the heart break of bankruptcy relief even harder for all of you to use.
You see, Bush and Saxby Chambliss, and his family don’t have to worry about their health care coverage. They have the finest health care coverage your tax money can buy for them. Courtesy of you. The American Tax payer. In fact, no one but the super rich can afford the health care coverage you the tax payer provide for Saxby Chambliss, and his family for FREE! with your tax dollars.
He supposedly works for you. But he doesn’t think you and your family should have access to the type of taxpayer supported FREE health care that you provide for him, and his loved ones for FREE!. Doesn’t that just make you BURRING MAD!
Vote for JIM MARTIN for US senator from Georgia. Vote for JIM Martin who will be on your side. Vote for JIM MARTIN who will work with President Obama and a majority congress for you. Vote for JIM MARTIN most of all for your-self, your family’s, friends, and loved ones. Vote for JIM MARTIN for a better America, and a better World.
Don’t let Saxby Chambliss make a chump out of you by tricking you into voting against your own best interest. Saxby chambliss is NOT! on your side. He’s not one of you. He is on George Bush’s side. And we all know what a catastrophe the Bush Chambliss administration has been the past 8 years.
Contact all your family and friends and do every thing you can to see to it that JIM MARTIN and GEORGIANS! take that senate seat back for Georgia, and America. No matter where you live in America. This is important to you. President Obama will need all the help, and power you can give him to try and fix this catastrophic mess that the Corrupt Bush Chambliss administration has created.
As I said before you will have to vote in overwhelming numbers to overcome the Bush Chambliss “Let Them Eat Cake” vote fraud machine. Vote early if you can. Then help everyone you can get to the polls and vote for JIM MARTIN. You and your loved ones don’t have to be Saxby Chambliss’s victims anymore.
I know you will get it done. Just like you did for President Obama.
God bless all of you
jacksmith - WORKING CLASS… :-)
By It is Ms. Lewinsky if U R Nasty
November 19, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
Lock up the interns BJ is in town.
By stonoguy
November 19, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
jacksmth, you are delerious!!!
By Tim
November 19, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this
Jack,
Why don’t you spend more time reading and educating yourself instead of asking the Imperial Federal Government to give you and others something. If they give you something, that means they probably took it from me by force!
Oh, and please name one person who has no access to medical care. Name just one in the whole nation. Please?
Vote for Jim Martin, he’ll give you something even though you failed to make the necessary decisions to provide for yourself. Vote for a hand out! Vote to take smart workers money! Vote for a welfare nation! We need more socialism! Vote for less freedom! Vote especially if you have no clue like most Obama supporters: http://howobamagotelected.com/
By Jason
November 19, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this
Well I don’t have health insurance because I’m going to school full time and my job doesn’t let me get it… do I count? If I get in to an accident, I’m pretty much screwed.
I’m voting for Jim Martin. Saxby has done NOTHING for us these past 6 years and I doubt he ever will. At least Jim Martin’s fought for something in his life - us!
By Calculus Entropy
November 19, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this
As with every concerned citizen during this election period, I have become acutely aware of the myriad mistakes and missteps the Republican Party has made with our national interests as well as the abundant moral and ethical lapses the GOP has engaged in. I have watched time and again this same party put special interests above national concerns. More specifically, I have watched Senator Saxby Chambliss ease gracefully into the Republican voting mentality of pro-business, anti-citizenship, and a refusal to ensure Senate accountability (S. Amdt. 3176). I have watched him waste our time and our money instead of helping the citizens of America and Georgia.
The legislation that Chambliss has voted against in Congress shows us he has no intention of veering away from Republican politics as usual. In our current economic crisis, we need a Senator that will show a firm hand in ensuring that our nation’s corporations are acting responsibly and ethically. But, in matters concerning business, Chambliss voted against removing the telecom industry from immunity (S Amdt 5064, S Amdt 3907), he voted against campaign finance reform (HR 2356, HR 417, HR 2183,) he voted against consumer protection from price gouging (S 2020), he voted not “To amend the National Labor Relations Act to establish an efficient system to enable employees to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to provide for mandatory injunctions for unfair labor practices during organizing efforts, and for other purposes” (HR 800), and he voted against stricter laws forbidding unlawful and unequal pay (HR 2831).
When it came to increasing our potential for energy independence, alternative fuels, and helping our environment, he voted against tax credits for alternative energy (H.R.6049), he voted against “an Act to move the United States toward greater energy independence and security, to increase the production of clean renewable fuels, to protect consumers, to increase the efficiency of products, buildings, and vehicles, to promote research on and deploy greenhouse gas capture and storage options, and to improve the energy performance of the Federal Government” (H.R.6), he voted against “A joint resolution disapproving a rule promulgated by the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency to delist coal and oil-direct utility units from the source category list under the Clean Air Act (S.J.RES.20), and Chambliss voted against carbon emission caps (S Amdt 4825).
The war in Iraq continues to exacerbate our financial strain and overall stability. But, Chambliss has chosen to ignore the problems involved in this war by voting against investigating special contracts carried out in Iraq and Afghanistan (HR 2862), voting against funding the Iraq War if it meant including provisions for conduct and Congressional oversight (S Amdt 4817), and voting against Congressional oversight of CIA interrogation and detention activities (S 3930).
To use a well-worn but none-the-less relevant term, we need change in Georgia. We need Jim Martin. As a former member of the Georgia House of Representatives, he put our interests first on a wide range of issues. He either sponsored or cosponsored legislation that increased corporate accountability (HB369), strengthened worker’s compensation benefits (HB 1184), increased employment requirements for the office of judge of state court (HB 552, HR 268), required health insurers to cover breast cancer patients (HB 604), urged Fulton County to better coordinate funds with other governmental authorities for Grady Hospital (HR 577), strengthened child custody laws (HB 270), protected our children in foster homes (HB 298), and with extreme foresight, he introduced a resolution creating the Joint Water Resources Policy Study Committee (HR 372) in 1999.
Further, as a testament to Mr. Martin’s integrity and citizenship, he has been honored with several awards. Among the more notable awards are the Georgia 1985 Bill of Rights Award, the Public Service Award, the Good Guy Award, two Legislature of the Year awards, State Representative of the Year award, and the Outstanding Legislature Award.
We are engrossed in a historical campaign season, both on the national and state level. Our votes this election will significantly alter the political landscape and the directions our state and national governments will take. Do we want the war in Iraq to last indefinitely, or do we want reasonable, straightforward goals set for a withdrawal from Iraq? Do we want our recession to continue under Republican deregulation, or do we want common sense, consumer oriented policies enacted that will help us resolve our economic woes? Do we want special interests to continue to run the nation’s government, or do we want a Senator who takes the side of the people? Do we want our Congress to continue to be ruled by corrupt lobbyist and politicians, or do we want our Congress to be accountable for their actions? Do we want our educational system to continue its decline, or do we want our students to learn the necessary fundamentals that will help them become competitive in the national and international workforce? Do we want to continue to rely on international oil and toxic coal, or do we want safe, affordable alternative energies created in the United States? If you answered the latter for each sentence, then your choice is clear this election: Jim Martin for U.S. Senate.
By Calculus Entropy
November 19, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this
As with every concerned citizen during this election period, I have become acutely aware of the myriad mistakes and missteps the Republican Party has made with our national interests as well as the abundant moral and ethical lapses the GOP has engaged in. I have watched time and again this same party put special interests above national concerns. More specifically, I have watched Senator Saxby Chambliss ease gracefully into the Republican voting mentality of pro-business, anti-citizenship, and a refusal to ensure Senate accountability (S. Amdt. 3176). I have watched him waste our time and our money instead of helping the citizens of America and Georgia.
The legislation that Chambliss has voted against in Congress shows us he has no intention of veering away from Republican politics as usual. In our current economic crisis, we need a Senator that will show a firm hand in ensuring that our nation’s corporations are acting responsibly and ethically. But, in matters concerning business, Chambliss voted against removing the telecom industry from immunity (S Amdt 5064, S Amdt 3907), he voted against campaign finance reform (HR 2356, HR 417, HR 2183,) he voted against consumer protection from price gouging (S 2020), he voted not “To amend the National Labor Relations Act to establish an efficient system to enable employees to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to provide for mandatory injunctions for unfair labor practices during organizing efforts, and for other purposes” (HR 800), and he voted against stricter laws forbidding unlawful and unequal pay (HR 2831).
When it came to increasing our potential for energy independence, alternative fuels, and helping our environment, he voted against tax credits for alternative energy (H.R.6049), he voted against “an Act to move the United States toward greater energy independence and security, to increase the production of clean renewable fuels, to protect consumers, to increase the efficiency of products, buildings, and vehicles, to promote research on and deploy greenhouse gas capture and storage options, and to improve the energy performance of the Federal Government” (H.R.6), he voted against “A joint resolution disapproving a rule promulgated by the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency to delist coal and oil-direct utility units from the source category list under the Clean Air Act (S.J.RES.20), and Chambliss voted against carbon emission caps (S Amdt 4825).
The war in Iraq continues to exacerbate our financial strain and overall stability. But, Chambliss has chosen to ignore the problems involved in this war by voting against investigating special contracts carried out in Iraq and Afghanistan (HR 2862), voting against funding the Iraq War if it meant including provisions for conduct and Congressional oversight (S Amdt 4817), and voting against Congressional oversight of CIA interrogation and detention activities (S 3930).
To use a well-worn but none-the-less relevant term, we need change in Georgia. We need Jim Martin. As a former member of the Georgia House of Representatives, he put our interests first on a wide range of issues. He either sponsored or cosponsored legislation that increased corporate accountability (HB369), strengthened worker’s compensation benefits (HB 1184), increased employment requirements for the office of judge of state court (HB 552, HR 268), required health insurers to cover breast cancer patients (HB 604), urged Fulton County to better coordinate funds with other governmental authorities for Grady Hospital (HR 577), strengthened child custody laws (HB 270), protected our children in foster homes (HB 298), and with extreme foresight, he introduced a resolution creating the Joint Water Resources Policy Study Committee (HR 372) in 1999.
Further, as a testament to Mr. Martin’s integrity and citizenship, he has been honored with several awards. Among the more notable awards are the Georgia 1985 Bill of Rights Award, the Public Service Award, the Good Guy Award, two Legislature of the Year awards, State Representative of the Year award, and the Outstanding Legislature Award.
We are engrossed in a historical campaign season, both on the national and state level. Our votes this election will significantly alter the political landscape and the directions our state and national governments will take. Do we want the war in Iraq to last indefinitely, or do we want reasonable, straightforward goals set for a withdrawal from Iraq? Do we want our recession to continue under Republican deregulation, or do we want common sense, consumer oriented policies enacted that will help us resolve our economic woes? Do we want special interests to continue to run the nation’s government, or do we want a Senator who takes the side of the people? Do we want our Congress to continue to be ruled by corrupt lobbyist and politicians, or do we want our Congress to be accountable for their actions? Do we want our educational system to continue its decline, or do we want our students to learn the necessary fundamentals that will help them become competitive in the national and international workforce? Do we want to continue to rely on international oil and toxic coal, or do we want safe, affordable alternative energies created in the United States? If you answered the latter for each sentence, then your choice is clear this election: Jim Martin for U.S. Senate.
By GA Values
November 19, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
Martin is too liberal for GA Values.
By Tim
November 19, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this
Jason,
I, like you, made the choice to go to college and sacrifice the security of insurance. That is a choice. You have no right to insurance unless you are willing to make the sacrifices to buy it. Don’t rely on government to take care of you. Rely on yourself. If something happens to you, you will go to an emergency room and you will get some of the finest free healthcare in the world. Why are you screwed?
Calculus – lame name,
Concerned citizen does not equal informed in your case. Pro-business = anti-citizenship? Really? Have you ever gotten a job from a poor man? I think you meant to say Pro-business and anti-socialism.
Anti-Price Gouging legislation is anti-capitalism which equals socialism. Why do you think we ran out of gas about a month ago?
You have no clue of the pork in H.R.6.
Jim Martin says Chambliss will add more than 20% taxes to everyone with the fair tax. Jim Martin lies and panders to ignorance and you drink the Kool-Aid.
All the rest of your rambling will bankrupt the state and the nation. Spend! Spend! Spend! Not my money.
If you are going to list bills on your rant, you should actually read them and attempt to grasp an understanding of them first. I had to stop reading your rant after a while. It was just ignorant.
By Patrick
November 19, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this
Chickenhawk= 6 college deferments (ouch my poor poor knees)
Martin = Vietnam vet
nuff’ said. I dont vote for cowards
By Saxby Economics
November 20, 2008 6:11 AM | Link to this
Saxby works for LOBBYIST, Martin will work for GEORGIA
By Bill Clinton
November 20, 2008 6:21 AM | Link to this
“The hopes of America are riding with Georgia,” Clinton said, adding that Martin would not be a rubber stamp for Obama. “We don’t check our brains at the door.”
He also took several shots at Chambliss, especially the incumbent’s claim to represent “a firewall” against Democratic power.
“This guy’s trying to give you chapter two of a song that wasn’t worth a flip when he sang it the first time,” Clinton said.
“This country doesn’t need a firewall against the future. It needs a bridge to the future.”
By Bitter EX democrackkk
November 20, 2008 6:34 AM | Link to this
STRIVE to be SMARTER than a GA Democrackkk*
*spelled with 3 Ks to HONOR the democrat heritage as the ORIGINAL ‘party’ of SLAVERY, as they continue to ENSLAVE us daily!
Saxby is the leader that Martin can never be.
By Sen. Johnny Isakson
November 20, 2008 6:35 AM | Link to this
But first, the Republicans will have to say goodbye to their own. On Wednesday night, just off the Senate floor, Republicans planned to gather in tribute to their retiring and defeated colleagues.
It’s a longer-than-usual list this year, and it includes Stevens, Warner, Pete V. Domenici, Elizabeth Dole, Wayne Allard, Gordon Smith, John Sununu, Larry Craig and Chuck Hagel.
“This causes a lot of pain,” said Georgia Sen. Johnny Isakson. “There are a lot of good people there. We’re going to miss them all.”
By Sissy Saxby
November 20, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
If you like the way Bush has managed the economy, vote for Sissy Saxby. The lobbyists will thank you.
By HILLARY 2012
November 20, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
Has anyone completed an intern head count since BJ left? We need to look out for any signs of sexual assault.
By chief of smoke
November 20, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Has anyone ever seen Jim Martin speak he is worse than Biden.
Saxby Chambliss is the right choice for U.S Senate
By blady
November 20, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
Tim, I’m a college graduate with a post-graduate degree in Engineering. I don’t have health insurance because when my position was shipped to India I lost my job and my health insurance.
By Calculus Entropy
November 29, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this
@Tim
Wow, Tim, typical Republican tactic and logical fallacy—attack the man instead of the views (i.e. “Calculus—lame name”; I doubt you would get the reference anyway).
No, I’ve never “gotten” a job from a poor man, neither have I been hired by a Senator. So, I’d much rather keep my Senator away from my place of employment and vice versa. Government is for the people, by the people, not for the business, by the business.
Further, I didn’t say pro business=bad citizenship did I? I said Chambliss was pro-business IN ADDITION to anti-citizenship. A comma in a sentence does not translate into an “=” sign. Don’t create straw men here. But, what I did imply from my message is that I want my Senators to put my interest as a citizen above the interests of business and my place of employment. And no, those two entities are rarely connected in a beneficial manner for the citizen; just look at our inefficient, over-centralized, and risky food supply system. That’s what happens when you let business mix with government. You tell me with a straight face you know what’s in your food. That’s just the tip of the iceberg here on the destructive combination of government and business.
You talk about socialism? Your mention of it in your response leads me to believe that you could not differentiate it between Communism (and democracy for that matter). It’s a buzz word used to scare people into voting rightist, though it is generally used incorrectly by those who adopt it as a scare tactic. What a shame. Talk about brainwashing and misinformation…
So, you were able to pick and choose a couple of bills that you disagree with my interpretation on. What of Chambliss’ inability to grasp accountability in the Senate, on the Iraq War, and Afghanistan? Mum on that one? And, you’re right, H.R. 6 was filled with pork (as are most bills—perhaps you should read more as well?), but the goodness of certain bills can often outweigh the pork.
And, again, you need to get your sources correct here. Jim Martin never said that about the fair tax—he was not associated with that commercial in the least (though, yes, he should have disavowed its claims, but he didn’t. You got me on that one); look it up and stop listening to Boortz when forming your own opinions. Still, what the ad said is true, if—as you rightly note—misleading. Sales taxes will increase that much, though other taxes will be abolished. Again, I agree, the ad is misleading, but not false and it is playing on ignorance, but again, it’s not Martin’s commercial.
And, yes, you could make the argument that people will be reimbursed for certain expenditures under the fair tax; but, then again, isn’t that socialism? Ooooh, scary socialism. God forbid we adopt a policy that places the means of production in the many instead of the few. Do you have any idea how many markets in America are controlled by Oligopolies? Do you know what an oligopoly is? There are over 200. And Oligopolies are the natural end result of a capitalist based economy—it’s called the rule of three. Do you know what happens in an oligopoly? Collusion, corruption, price fixing, and market control by the few. Efficient means of production and supply chain management, inefficient pricing and innovation. These are the “companies that can’t fail.” You know, the ones we had to bail out under our rightist president and his Treasury Department’s immediate directive.
Nope, I don’t make any apologies on my price gouging stance—it is anti-capitalism, but then again, we don’t necessary live in a capitalist free market system anymore thanks to the Republican administration. Of course, it’s a sort of noveau, reverse socialism they’ve created where the means of production and our money are being handed over to the few at the cost of us, the citizen and tax payer.
And we didn’t run out of gas (well, heck, we didn’t run out of gas at all—our supply line was damaged and there was a shortage… among other things, none of which are related to price gouging regulation) because of anti price-gouging legislation—I cannot believe you are spewing that one.
On a side note, what is it with Georgian Republicans using that overwrought “Kool-aid” reference? The sad thing is, it is obvious that Republicans are far more brainwashed and fanatic than are Democrats. Even as the Republican administration and Congress took away their rights to privacy and freedom to choose, they happily pulled that lever for the status quo.
Believe me, I was at one time a diehard fiscal conservative, but the Republican party does not remotely adopt this sort of policy anymore—Reagan killed that with his supply side economic policy. Pro-business tax breaks and trickle down economic theory has obviously been proved a failure (look at what has happened to us after all these years of corporate tax breaks and wreckless “conservative” spending), and any intro-level economist will tell you that supply side tax cuts only work in the short term. They’re a quick fix that have been in place too long. If demand isn’t there, all the tax cuts in the world to a business aren’t going to do a thing. It’s time to return the economy to the demand side of the equation.
In the end, “I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.” Why put those in power who hate the very entity they work for (this is at the heart of the Republican ideology of less government)? We’ve seen what this has done to our government and our place in the global market.
By Calculus Entropy
November 30, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this
@Tim
Wow, Tim, typical Republican tactic and logical fallacy—attack the man instead of the views (i.e. “Calculus—lame name”; I doubt you would get the reference anyway).
No, I’ve never “gotten” a job from a poor man, neither have I been hired by a Senator. So, I’d much rather keep my Senator away from my place of employment and vice versa. Government is for the people, by the people, not for the business, by the business.
Further, I didn’t say pro business=bad citizenship, did I? I said Chambliss was pro-business IN ADDITION to being anti-citizenship. A comma in a sentence does not translate into an “=” sign. Don’t create a straw man here. But, what I did imply from my message is that I want my Senator to put my interest as a citizen above the interests of business and my place of employment. And no, those two entities are rarely connected in a beneficial manner for the citizen; just look at our inefficient, over-centralized, and risky food supply system. That’s what happens when you let business mix with government. You tell me with a straight face you know what’s in your food. That’s just the tip of the iceberg here on the destructive combination of government and business.
You talk about socialism? Your mention of it in your response leads me to believe that you could not differentiate it between Communism (and democracy for that matter). It’s a buzz word used to scare people into voting rightist, though it is generally used incorrectly by those who adopt it as a scare tactic. What a shame. Talk about brainwashing and misinformation…
So, you were able to pick and choose a couple of bills that you disagree with my interpretation on. What of Chambliss’ inability to grasp accountability in the Senate, on the Iraq War, and Afghanistan? Mum on that one? And, you’re right, H.R. 6 was filled with pork (as are most bills—perhaps you should read more as well?), but the goodness of certain bills can often outweigh the pork. I doubt the pork in H.R. 6 would amount to the cost of the Iraq War or the bailouts.
And, again, you need to get your sources correct here. Jim Martin never said that about the fair tax—he was not associated with that commercial in the least (though, yes, he should have disavowed its claims, but he didn’t. You got me on that one); look it up and stop listening to Boortz and form your own opinions on the issues. Still, what the ad said is true, if—as you rightly note—misleading. Sales taxes will increase that much, though other taxes will be abolished. Again, I agree, the ad is misleading, but not false and it is playing on ignorance, but again, it’s not Martin’s commercial.
And, yes, you could make the argument that people will be reimbursed for certain expenditures under the fair tax; but, then again, isn’t that socialism? Ooooh, scary socialism. God forbid we adopt a policy that places the means of production in the many instead of the few. Do you have any idea how many markets in America are controlled by Oligopolies? Do you know what an oligopoly is? There are over 200. And Oligopolies are the natural end result of a capitalist based economy—it’s called the rule of three. Do you know what happens in an oligopoly? Collusion, corruption, price fixing, and market control by the few. Efficient means of production and supply chain management, inefficient pricing and innovation. These are the “companies that can’t fail.” You know, the ones we had to bail out under our rightist president and his Treasury Department’s immediate directive. There’s your precious capitalism at work—keep it a free market system until the corporations need state sponsored welfare.
Nope, I don’t make any apologies on my price gouging stance—it is anti-capitalism, but then again, we don’t necessary live in a capitalist free market system anymore thanks to the Republican administration. Of course, it’s a sort of noveau, reverse socialism they’ve created where the means of production and our money are being handed over to the few at the cost of us, the citizen and tax payer.
And we didn’t run out of gas (well, heck, we didn’t run out of gas at all—our supply line was damaged and there was a shortage… among other things, none of which are related to price gouging regulation) because of anti price-gouging legislation—I cannot believe you are spewing that one.
On a side note, what is it with Georgian Republicans using that overwrought “Kool-Aid” reference? The sad thing is, it is obvious that Republicans are far more brainwashed and fanatic than are Democrats. Even as the Republican administration and Congress took away their rights to privacy and freedom to choose, they happily pulled that lever for the status quo.
Believe me, I was at one time a diehard fiscal conservative, but the Republican party does not remotely adopt this sort of policy anymore—Reagan killed that with his supply side economic policy. Pro-business tax breaks and trickle down economic theory has obviously been proved a failure (look at what has happened to us after all these years of corporate tax breaks and wreckless “conservative” spending), and any intro-level economist will tell you that supply side tax cuts only work in the short term. It’s a quick fix that has been in place too long. If demand isn’t there, all the tax cuts in the world to a business aren’t going to do a thing. It’s time to return the economy to the demand side of the equation.
In the end, “I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.” Why put those in power who hate the very entity they work for (this is at the heart of the Republican ideology of less government)? We’ve seen what this has done to our government and our place in the global market.
By Calculus Entropy
November 30, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this
@Tim
Wow, Tim, typical Republican tactic and logical fallacy—attack the man instead of the views (i.e. “Calculus—lame name”; I doubt you would get the reference anyway).
No, I’ve never “gotten” a job from a poor man, neither have I been hired by a Senator. So, I’d much rather keep my Senator away from my place of employment and vice versa. Government is for the people, by the people, not for the business, by the business.
Further, I didn’t say pro business=bad citizenship, did I? I said Chambliss was pro-business IN ADDITION to being anti-citizenship. A comma in a sentence does not translate into an “=” sign. Don’t create a straw man here. But, what I did imply from my message is that I want my Senator to put my interest as a citizen above the interests of business and my place of employment. And no, those two entities are rarely connected in a beneficial manner for the citizen; just look at our inefficient, over-centralized, and risky food supply system. That’s what happens when you let business mix with government. You tell me with a straight face you know what’s in your food. That’s just the tip of the iceberg here on the destructive combination of government and business.
You talk about socialism? Your mention of it in your response leads me to believe that you could not differentiate it between Communism (and democracy for that matter). It’s a buzz word used to scare people into voting rightist, though it is generally used incorrectly by those who adopt it as a scare tactic. What a shame. Talk about brainwashing and misinformation…
So, you were able to pick and choose a couple of bills that you disagree with my interpretation on. What of Chambliss’ inability to grasp accountability in the Senate, on the Iraq War, and Afghanistan? Mum on that one? And, you’re right, H.R. 6 was filled with pork (as are most bills—perhaps you should read more as well?), but the goodness of certain bills can often outweigh the pork. I doubt the pork in H.R. 6 would amount to the cost of the Iraq War or the bailouts.
And, again, you need to get your sources correct here. Jim Martin never said that about the fair tax—he was not associated with that commercial in the least (though, yes, he should have disavowed its claims, but he didn’t. You got me on that one); look it up and stop listening to Boortz and form your own opinions on the issues. Still, what the ad said is true, if—as you rightly note—misleading. Sales taxes will increase that much, though other taxes will be abolished. Again, I agree, the ad is misleading, but not false and it is playing on ignorance, but again, it’s not Martin’s commercial.
And, yes, you could make the argument that people will be reimbursed for certain expenditures under the fair tax; but, then again, isn’t that socialism? Ooooh, scary socialism. God forbid we adopt a policy that places the means of production in the many instead of the few. Do you have any idea how many markets in America are controlled by Oligopolies? Do you know what an oligopoly is? There are over 200. And Oligopolies are the natural end result of a capitalist based economy—it’s called the rule of three. Do you know what happens in an oligopoly? Collusion, corruption, price fixing, and market control by the few. Efficient means of production and supply chain management, inefficient pricing and innovation. These are the “companies that can’t fail.” You know, the ones we had to bail out under our rightist president and his Treasury Department’s immediate directive. There’s your precious capitalism at work—keep it a free market system until the corporations need state sponsored welfare.
Nope, I don’t make any apologies on my price gouging stance—it is anti-capitalism, but then again, we don’t necessary live in a capitalist free market system anymore thanks to the Republican administration. Of course, it’s a sort of noveau, reverse socialism they’ve created where the means of production and our money are being handed over to the few at the cost of us, the citizen and tax payer.
And we didn’t run out of gas (well, heck, we didn’t run out of gas at all—our supply line was damaged and there was a shortage… among other things, none of which are related to price gouging regulation) because of anti price-gouging legislation—I cannot believe you are spewing that one.
On a side note, what is it with Georgian Republicans using that overwrought “Kool-Aid” reference? The sad thing is, it is obvious that Republicans are far more brainwashed and fanatic than are Democrats. Even as the Republican administration and Congress took away their rights to privacy and freedom to choose, they happily pulled that lever for the status quo.
Believe me, I was at one time a diehard fiscal conservative, but the Republican party does not remotely adopt this sort of policy anymore—Reagan killed that with his supply side economic policy. Pro-business tax breaks and trickle down economic theory has obviously been proved a failure (look at what has happened to us after all these years of corporate tax breaks and wreckless “conservative” spending), and any intro-level economist will tell you that supply side tax cuts only work in the short term. It’s a quick fix that has been in place too long. If demand isn’t there, all the tax cuts in the world to a business aren’t going to do a thing. It’s time to return the economy to the demand side of the equation.
In the end, “I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.” Why put those in power who hate the very entity they work for (this is at the heart of the Republican ideology of less government)? We’ve seen what this has done to our government and our place in the global market.
By Calculus Entropy
November 30, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this
@Tim
Wow, Tim, typical Republican tactic and logical fallacy—attack the man instead of the views (i.e. “Calculus—lame name”; I doubt you would get the reference anyway).
No, I’ve never “gotten” a job from a poor man, neither have I been hired by a Senator. So, I’d much rather keep my Senator away from my place of employment and vice versa. Government is for the people, by the people, not for the business, by the business.
Further, I didn’t say pro business=bad citizenship, did I? I said Chambliss was pro-business IN ADDITION to being anti-citizenship. A comma in a sentence does not translate into an “=” sign. Don’t create a straw man here. But, what I did imply from my message is that I want my Senator to put my interest as a citizen above the interests of business and my place of employment. And no, those two entities are rarely connected in a beneficial manner for the citizen; just look at our inefficient, over-centralized, and risky food supply system. That’s what happens when you let business mix with government. You tell me with a straight face you know what’s in your food. That’s just the tip of the iceberg here on the destructive combination of government and business.
You talk about socialism? Your mention of it in your response leads me to believe that you could not differentiate it between Communism (and democracy for that matter). It’s a buzz word used to scare people into voting rightist, though it is generally used incorrectly by those who adopt it as a scare tactic. What a shame. Talk about brainwashing and misinformation…
So, you were able to pick and choose a couple of bills that you disagree with my interpretation on. What of Chambliss’ inability to grasp accountability in the Senate, on the Iraq War, and Afghanistan? Mum on that one? And, you’re right, H.R. 6 was filled with pork (as are most bills—perhaps you should read more as well?), but the goodness of certain bills can often outweigh the pork. I doubt the pork in H.R. 6 would amount to the cost of the Iraq War or the bailouts.
And, again, you need to get your sources correct here. Jim Martin never said that about the fair tax—he was not associated with that commercial in the least (though, yes, he should have disavowed its claims, but he didn’t. You got me on that one); look it up and stop listening to Boortz and form your own opinions on the issues. Still, what the ad said is true, if—as you rightly note—misleading. Sales taxes will increase that much, though other taxes will be abolished. Again, I agree, the ad is misleading, but not false and it is playing on ignorance, but again, it’s not Martin’s commercial.
And, yes, you could make the argument that people will be reimbursed for certain expenditures under the fair tax; but, then again, isn’t that socialism? Ooooh, scary socialism. God forbid we adopt a policy that places the means of production in the many instead of the few. Do you have any idea how many markets in America are controlled by Oligopolies? Do you know what an oligopoly is? There are over 200. And Oligopolies are the natural end result of a capitalist based economy—it’s called the rule of three. Do you know what happens in an oligopoly? Collusion, corruption, price fixing, and market control by the few. Efficient means of production and supply chain management, inefficient pricing and innovation. These are the “companies that can’t fail.” You know, the ones we had to bail out under our rightist president and his Treasury Department’s immediate directive. There’s your precious capitalism at work—keep it a free market system until the corporations need state sponsored welfare.
Nope, I don’t make any apologies on my price gouging stance—it is anti-capitalism, but then again, we don’t necessary live in a capitalist free market system anymore thanks to the Republican administration. Of course, it’s a sort of noveau, reverse socialism they’ve created where the means of production and our money are being handed over to the few at the cost of us, the citizen and tax payer.
And we didn’t run out of gas (well, heck, we didn’t run out of gas at all—our supply line was damaged and there was a shortage… among other things, none of which are related to price gouging regulation) because of anti price-gouging legislation—I cannot believe you are spewing that one.
On a side note, what is it with Georgian Republicans using that overwrought “Kool-Aid” reference? The sad thing is, it is obvious that Republicans are far more brainwashed and fanatic than are Democrats. Even as the Republican administration and Congress took away their rights to privacy and freedom to choose, they happily pulled that lever for the status quo.
Believe me, I was at one time a diehard fiscal conservative, but the Republican party does not remotely adopt this sort of policy anymore—Reagan killed that with his supply side economic policy. Pro-business tax breaks and trickle down economic theory has obviously been proved a failure (look at what has happened to us after all these years of corporate tax breaks and wreckless “conservative” spending), and any intro-level economist will tell you that supply side tax cuts only work in the short term. It’s a quick fix that has been in place too long. If demand isn’t there, all the tax cuts in the world to a business aren’t going to do a thing. It’s time to return the economy to the demand side of the equation.
In the end, “I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.” Why put those in power who hate the very entity they work for (this is at the heart of the Republican ideology of less government)? We’ve seen what this has done to our government and our place in the global market.
By Calculus Entropy
November 30, 2008 1:15 AM | Link to this
@Tim
Wow, Tim, typical Republican tactic and logical fallacy—attack the man instead of the views (i.e. “Calculus—lame name”; I doubt you would get the reference anyway).
No, I’ve never “gotten” a job from a poor man, neither have I been hired by a Senator. So, I’d much rather keep my Senator away from my place of employment and vice versa. Government is for the people, by the people, not for the business, by the business.
Further, I didn’t say pro business=bad citizenship, did I? I said Chambliss was pro-business IN ADDITION to being anti-citizenship. A comma in a sentence does not translate into an “=” sign. Don’t create a straw man here. But, what I did imply from my message is that I want my Senator to put my interest as a citizen above the interests of business and my place of employment. And no, those two entities are rarely connected in a beneficial manner for the citizen; just look at our inefficient, over-centralized, and risky food supply system. That’s what happens when you let business mix with government. You tell me with a straight face you know what’s in your food. That’s just the tip of the iceberg here on the destructive combination of government and business.
You talk about socialism? Your mention of it in your response leads me to believe that you could not differentiate it between Communism (and democracy for that matter). It’s a buzz word used to scare people into voting rightist, though it is generally used incorrectly by those who adopt it as a scare tactic. What a shame. Talk about brainwashing and misinformation…
So, you were able to pick and choose a couple of bills that you disagree with my interpretation on. What of Chambliss’ inability to grasp accountability in the Senate, on the Iraq War, and Afghanistan? Mum on that one? And, you’re right, H.R. 6 was filled with pork (as are most bills—perhaps you should read more as well?), but the goodness of certain bills can often outweigh the pork. I doubt the pork in H.R. 6 would amount to the cost of the Iraq War or the bailouts. That’s laughable: Since when have Republicans voted against something because it had too much pork? That’s a good one, Tim. Chambliss voted against H.R. 6 because it would affect his fundraising if he voted on anything that would make energy corporations accountable for their actions.
And, again, you need to get your sources correct here. Jim Martin never said that about the fair tax—he was not associated with that commercial in the least (though, yes, he should have disavowed its claims, but he didn’t. You got me on that one); look it up and stop listening to Boortz and form your own opinions on the issues. Still, what the ad said is true, if—as you rightly note—misleading. Sales taxes will increase that much, though other taxes will be abolished. Again, I agree, the ad is misleading, but not false and it is playing on ignorance, but again, it’s not Martin’s commercial.
And, yes, you could make the argument that people will be reimbursed for certain expenditures under the fair tax; but, then again, isn’t that socialism? Ooooh, scary socialism. God forbid we adopt a policy that places the means of production in the many instead of the few. Do you have any idea how many markets in America are controlled by Oligopolies? Do you know what an oligopoly is? There are over 200. And Oligopolies are the natural end result of a capitalist based economy—it’s called the rule of three. Do you know what happens in an oligopoly? Collusion, corruption, price fixing, and market control by the few. Efficient means of production and supply chain management, inefficient pricing and innovation. These are the “companies that can’t fail.” You know, the ones we had to bail out under our rightist president and his Treasury Department’s immediate directive. There’s your precious capitalism at work—keep it a free market system until the corporations need state sponsored welfare.
Nope, I don’t make any apologies on my price gouging stance—it is anti-capitalism, but then again, we don’t necessary live in a capitalist free market system anymore thanks to the Republican administration. Of course, it’s a sort of noveau, reverse socialism they’ve created where the means of production and our money are being handed over to the few at the cost of us, the citizen and tax payer.
And we didn’t run out of gas (well, heck, we didn’t run out of gas at all—our supply line was damaged and there was a shortage… among other things, none of which are related to price gouging regulation) because of anti price-gouging legislation—I cannot believe you are spewing that one.
On a side note, what is it with Georgian Republicans using that overwrought “Kool-Aid” reference? The sad thing is, it is obvious that Republicans are far more brainwashed and fanatic than are Democrats. Even as the Republican administration and Congress took away their rights to privacy and freedom to choose, they happily pulled that lever for the status quo.
Believe me, I was at one time a diehard fiscal conservative, but the Republican party does not remotely adopt this sort of policy anymore—Reagan killed that with his supply side economic policy. Pro-business tax breaks and trickle down economic theory has obviously been proved a failure (look at what has happened to us after all these years of corporate tax breaks and wreckless “conservative” spending), and any intro-level economist will tell you that supply side tax cuts only work in the short term. It’s a quick fix that has been in place too long. If demand isn’t there, all the tax cuts in the world to a business aren’t going to do a thing. It’s time to return the economy to the demand side of the equation.
In the end, “I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.” Why put those in power who hate the very entity they work for (this is at the heart of the Republican ideology of less government)? We’ve seen what this has done to our government and our place in the global market.
By Calculus Entropy
November 30, 2008 1:16 AM | Link to this
@Tim
Wow, Tim, typical Republican tactic and logical fallacy—attack the man instead of the views (i.e. “Calculus—lame name”; I doubt you would get the reference anyway).
No, I’ve never “gotten” a job from a poor man, neither have I been hired by a Senator. So, I’d much rather keep my Senator away from my place of employment and vice versa. Government is for the people, by the people, not for the business, by the business.
Further, I didn’t say pro business=bad citizenship, did I? I said Chambliss was pro-business IN ADDITION to being anti-citizenship. A comma in a sentence does not translate into an “=” sign. Don’t create a straw man here. But, what I did imply from my message is that I want my Senator to put my interest as a citizen above the interests of business and my place of employment. And no, those two entities are rarely connected in a beneficial manner for the citizen; just look at our inefficient, over-centralized, and risky food supply system. That’s what happens when you let business mix with government. You tell me with a straight face you know what’s in your food. That’s just the tip of the iceberg here on the destructive combination of government and business.
You talk about socialism? Your mention of it in your response leads me to believe that you could not differentiate it between Communism (and democracy for that matter). It’s a buzz word used to scare people into voting rightist, though it is generally used incorrectly by those who adopt it as a scare tactic. What a shame. Talk about brainwashing and misinformation…
So, you were able to pick and choose a couple of bills that you disagree with my interpretation on. What of Chambliss’ inability to grasp accountability in the Senate, on the Iraq War, and Afghanistan? Mum on that one? And, you’re right, H.R. 6 was filled with pork (as are most bills—perhaps you should read more as well?), but the goodness of certain bills can often outweigh the pork. I doubt the pork in H.R. 6 would amount to the cost of the Iraq War or the bailouts. That’s laughable: Since when have Republicans voted against something because it had too much pork? That’s a good one, Tim. Chambliss voted against H.R. 6 because it would affect his fundraising if he voted on anything that would make energy corporations accountable for their actions.
And, again, you need to get your sources correct here. Jim Martin never said that about the fair tax—he was not associated with that commercial in the least (though, yes, he should have disavowed its claims, but he didn’t. You got me on that one); look it up and stop listening to Boortz and form your own opinions on the issues. Still, what the ad said is true, if—as you rightly note—misleading. Sales taxes will increase that much, though other taxes will be abolished. Again, I agree, the ad is misleading, but not false and it is playing on ignorance, but again, it’s not Martin’s commercial.
And, yes, you could make the argument that people will be reimbursed for certain expenditures under the fair tax; but, then again, isn’t that socialism? Ooooh, scary socialism. God forbid we adopt a policy that places the means of production in the many instead of the few. Do you have any idea how many markets in America are controlled by Oligopolies? Do you know what an oligopoly is? There are over 200. And Oligopolies are the natural end result of a capitalist based economy—it’s called the rule of three. Do you know what happens in an oligopoly? Collusion, corruption, price fixing, and market control by the few. Efficient means of production and supply chain management, inefficient pricing and innovation. These are the “companies that can’t fail.” You know, the ones we had to bail out under our rightist president and his Treasury Department’s immediate directive. There’s your precious capitalism at work—keep it a free market system until the corporations need state sponsored welfare.
Nope, I don’t make any apologies on my price gouging stance—it is anti-capitalism, but then again, we don’t necessary live in a capitalist free market system anymore thanks to the Republican administration. Of course, it’s a sort of noveau, reverse socialism they’ve created where the means of production and our money are being handed over to the few at the cost of us, the citizen and tax payer.
And we didn’t run out of gas (well, heck, we didn’t run out of gas at all—our supply line was damaged and there was a shortage… among other things, none of which are related to price gouging regulation) because of anti price-gouging legislation—I cannot believe you are spewing that one.
On a side note, what is it with Georgian Republicans using that overwrought “Kool-Aid” reference? The sad thing is, it is obvious that Republicans are far more brainwashed and fanatic than are Democrats. Even as the Republican administration and Congress took away their rights to privacy and freedom to choose, they happily pulled that lever for the status quo.
Believe me, I was at one time a diehard fiscal conservative, but the Republican party does not remotely adopt this sort of policy anymore—Reagan killed that with his supply side economic policy. Pro-business tax breaks and trickle down economic theory has obviously been proved a failure (look at what has happened to us after all these years of corporate tax breaks and wreckless “conservative” spending), and any intro-level economist will tell you that supply side tax cuts only work in the short term. It’s a quick fix that has been in place too long. If demand isn’t there, all the tax cuts in the world to a business aren’t going to do a thing. It’s time to return the economy to the demand side of the equation.
In the end, “I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.” Why put those in power who hate the very entity they work for (this is at the heart of the Republican ideology of less government)? We’ve seen what this has done to our government and our place in the global market.
By Calculus Entropy
November 30, 2008 1:27 AM | Link to this
@Tim
Wow, Tim, typical Republican tactic and logical fallacy—attack the man instead of the views (i.e. “Calculus—lame name”; I doubt you would get the reference anyway).
No, I’ve never “gotten” a job from a poor man, neither have I been hired by a Senator. So, I’d much rather keep my Senator away from my place of employment and vice versa. Government is for the people, by the people, not for the business, by the business.
Further, I didn’t say pro business=bad citizenship, did I? I said Chambliss was pro-business IN ADDITION to being anti-citizenship. A comma in a sentence does not translate into an “=” sign. Don’t create a straw man here. But, what I did imply from my message is that I want my Senator to put my interest as a citizen above the interests of business and my place of employment. And no, those two entities are rarely connected in a beneficial manner for the citizen; just look at our inefficient, over-centralized, and risky food supply system. That’s what happens when you let business mix with government. You tell me with a straight face you know what’s in your food. That’s just the tip of the iceberg here on the destructive combination of government and business.
You talk about socialism? Your mention of it in your response leads me to believe that you could not differentiate it between Communism (and democracy for that matter). It’s a buzz word used to scare people into voting rightist, though it is generally used incorrectly by those who adopt it as a scare tactic. What a shame. Talk about brainwashing and misinformation…
So, you were able to pick and choose a couple of bills that you disagree with my interpretation on. What of Chambliss’ inability to grasp accountability in the Senate, on the Iraq War, and Afghanistan? Mum on that one? And, you’re right, H.R. 6 was filled with pork (as are most bills—perhaps you should read more as well?), but the goodness of certain bills can often outweigh the pork. I doubt the pork in H.R. 6 would amount to the cost of the Iraq War or the bailouts. That’s laughable: Since when have Republicans voted against something because it had too much pork? That’s a good one, Tim. Chambliss voted against H.R. 6 because it would affect his fundraising if he voted on anything that would make energy corporations accountable for their actions.
And, again, you need to get your sources correct here. Jim Martin never said that about the fair tax—he was not associated with that commercial in the least (though, yes, he should have disavowed its claims, but he didn’t. You got me on that one); look it up and stop listening to Boortz and form your own opinions on the issues. Still, what the ad said is true, if—as you rightly note—misleading. Sales taxes will increase that much, though other taxes will be abolished. Again, I agree, the ad is misleading, but not false and it is playing on ignorance, but again, it’s not Martin’s commercial.
And, yes, you could make the argument that people will be reimbursed for certain expenditures under the fair tax; but, then again, isn’t that socialism? Ooooh, scary socialism. God forbid we adopt a policy that places the means of production in the many instead of the few. Do you have any idea how many markets in America are controlled by Oligopolies? Do you know what an oligopoly is? There are over 200. And Oligopolies are the natural end result of a capitalist based economy—it’s called the rule of three. Do you know what happens in an oligopoly? Collusion, corruption, price fixing, and market control by the few. Efficient means of production and supply chain management, inefficient pricing and innovation. These are the “companies that can’t fail.” You know, the ones we had to bail out under our rightist president and his Treasury Department’s immediate directive. There’s your precious capitalism at work—keep it a free market system until the corporations need state sponsored welfare.
Nope, I don’t make any apologies on my price gouging stance—it is anti-capitalism, but then again, we don’t necessary live in a capitalist free market system anymore thanks to the Republican administration. Of course, it’s a sort of noveau, reverse socialism they’ve created where the means of production and our money are being handed over to the few at the cost of us, the citizen and tax payer.
And we didn’t run out of gas (well, heck, we didn’t run out of gas at all—our supply line was damaged and there was a shortage… among other things, none of which are related to price gouging regulation) because of anti price-gouging legislation—I cannot believe you are spewing that one.
On a side note, what is it with Georgian Republicans using that overwrought “Kool-Aid” reference? The sad thing is, it is obvious that Republicans are far more brainwashed and fanatic than are Democrats. Even as the Republican administration and Congress took away their rights to privacy and freedom to choose, they happily pulled that lever for the status quo.
Believe me, I was at one time a diehard fiscal conservative, but the Republican party does not remotely adopt this sort of policy anymore—Reagan killed that with his supply side economic policy. Pro-business tax breaks and trickle down economic theory has obviously been proved a failure (look at what has happened to us after all these years of corporate tax breaks and wreckless “conservative” spending), and any intro-level economist will tell you that supply side tax cuts only work in the short term. It’s a quick fix that has been in place too long. If demand isn’t there, all the tax cuts in the world to a business aren’t going to do a thing. It’s time to return the economy to the demand side of the equation.
In the end, “I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.” Why put those in power who hate the very entity they work for (this is at the heart of the Republican ideology of less government)? We’ve seen what this has done to our government and our place in the global market.
By Ed
November 30, 2008 1:31 AM | Link to this
Good stuff, y’all.