AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > October > 29 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USPut this Series out of its misery
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
This World Series certainly has gone to hell in a handbasket, hasn’t it?
It had such promise, such freshness. The upstart, youthful Tampa Bay Rays having triumphed over super powers Boston and New York to win the AL East. The Phillies, trying to bring Philly its first pro-sports title in a quarter-century, or at least since Rocky.
But rain, cold, an antiseptic dome, poor umpiring, post-8:30 p.m. starts and midnight-or-later finishes, one absurd post-10 p.m. start, a couple of slumping Tampa Bay sluggers, and more face time for Bud Selig than for David Price have all conspired to turn this into the World Series that most people outside of Tampa-St. Pete would just like to see end as soon as possible.
And if you’re a baseball fan who doesn’t want to admit you’re not interested in this World Series, well, don’t be ashamed. Plenty of major league players feel the same way.
Take Braves free-agent reliever Will Ohman, for instance.
“I’m as far away from game right now as can possibly be — I’m not even tivo’ing the Series,” Ohman said this afternoon, when I called him at his home in Mesa, Arizona, to ask him about free agency and other matters.
He said if he walks in a room and a postseason game is on, he’ll watch. Other than that, he’s not paying any attention.
As for free agency, he said he nor his agent hasn’t heard a thing from the Braves, as far as he knows. But before anyone jumps to any conclusions and assumed the Braves have decided their best left-hander (and most dependable reliever, period) from last season is too expensive to keep, don’t.
The 15-day free-agent filing period begins the day after the World Series, and in that period a team retains exclusive negotiating rights to its own free agents. Other teams can call, but they’re not supposed to talk contract.
(But plenty do, routinely. As long as both sides agree to keep it quiet, teams generally don’t get in any trouble for talking dollars with other teams’ free agents before they’re supposed to.)
Anyway, he’s heard a couple of other teams that might be interested, but nothing yet from the Braves.
Ohman reiterated what he said several times from before the July 31 no-waiver trade deadline through the end of the season: He hopes the Braves make him an offer. He enjoyed his time in Atlanta, and particularly playing for Bobby Cox, and would like to return if the Braves make a competitive offer.
His experience with the Braves was far better than the one he had for several years in Chicago with the Cubs, who traded him to Atlanta at last year’s Winter Meetings in Nashville.
“I loved it there,” Ohman said of Atlanta. “The only downsides are location, just because it makes it harder to see my family [in Arizona], and the other one is not knowing if Bobby is going to be back beyond next year. So there’s a little uncertainty in what was a certain world down there.
“But if those are the two knocks, it’s not bad. Everything else I loved. The guys on the team, the stadium, the fans … everything was good.”
Ohman also, by the way, gave a ringing endorsement to the possibility of trading for Jake Peavy. He has heard all those rumors, and said it would be a huge pickup for the Braves, to get an ace under contract for four more years, or five if the option is picked up.
“They you could sign Derek Lowe,” he said. “Imagine that potential rotation in 2010 - Hudson, Jurrjens, Peavy, Lowe ….”
With that, Ohman was back to his current occupation - playing Mr. Mom, as he put it. He sent his wife Allyson on a three-day trip to an Arizona resort in another part of the state,
“Sent her to a hotel and spa,” he said. “I get all my road trips during the season, so she gets a three-day trip when I get back.”
He told Allyson not to worry, that he’d take care of their twins, Jack and Annabel, who are about to turn 3.
“I have lots of kids,” said Ohman, who interrupted the phone call to tell his son that he’d banged away enough on the piano and that it was time to get ready for his nap.
Wait, he has “lots” of kids?
“Well, it’s just two,” Ohman said. “But it’s a lot. It’s just me here with them. It’s amazing the amount of work involved with it. Got to get ‘em up, get em ready for school, everything.”
OK, that’s it for this one. Gonna keep it short today, folks. I have a feeling. We’re about to get busy if this Series ends tonight. Free agency is going to be interesting in more ways than one for the Braves, who are starting to find out which players and pitchers are not having options picked up or who are opting out of options and becoming free agents.
The new Ryan Adams CD, Cardinology, is very good. Not as good, as say, Hearbreaker or his stuff with Whiskeytown, but very good. Mostly rootys tunes, a couple of semi-rockers.
Going to see the movie Rachel Getting Married right now, before tonight’s “game.” Anybody seen that movie yet? I’ll let you know what I think. Oh, and has anyone seen Pride and Glory yet? I’ve seen mostly modest or worse reviews. That’s too bad, with that cast I thought it’d be a great flick.
“PIDGIN ENGLISH” by Elvis Costello
There’s a young girl with her old man who’s too sick to mention
She’ll be turning twenty seven as she draws her widow’s pension
But he couldn’t catch a common cold he couldn’t get arrested
Too terrified to answer back
Too tired to have resisted
Many hands make light work
Shorthand makes life easy
When he’s out on night work
Make sure no one sees me
It all ends up in a slanging match with body talk and bruises
A change is better than a rest
Silly beggars can’t be choosers
One of a thousand pities you can’t categorize
There are ten commandments of love
When will you realize
There are ten commandments of love
I believe, I trust, I promise, I wish love’s just a throwaway kiss
In this Pidgin English
If you’re so wise use your lips and your eyes
Take it to the bridge she sighs
You go cheep cheep cheep between bullseyes and bluster
Stiff as your poker face
Keener than mustard
From your own back yard to the land of exotica
From the truth society to neurotic erotica
Silence is golden
Money talks diamonds and ermine
There’s a word in Spanish
Italian and German
In sign language, morse code, semaphore and gibberish
Have you forgotten how to say it
In your Pidgin English?
One of a thousand pities you can’t categorize
There are ten commandments of love
When will you realize
There are ten commandments of love
I believe, I trust, I promise, I wish love’s just a throwaway kiss
In this Pidgin English
P.S. I love you
Jack and Annabel, twins
Services »
Comments
By McFann
October 29, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
First!!
By Original Jon
October 29, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
Thanks for another great, but short, blog DOB To be completely honest with you, I want Tampa to win the series because I just cannot pull for the Phillies, but I want the free agent filing period to begin ASAP, and in order to do that, Philies would need to win tonight. Oh what a mess.
By jrjags
October 29, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
I was legitimately excited about this series when it started. New teams and a chance for National League redemption. But it has been underwhelming. Sloppy play in the field, baserunning errors, atrocious hitting by Pena and Longoria, embarrassing umpiring, and not least of all, the weather. Hopefully it will end and we can get on to more interesting aspects of baseball.
By Joe M.
October 29, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the new blog, Chief!
By hadron
October 29, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
Thanks Chief?
By Original Jon
October 29, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
You know, it should be mandatory that all baseball stadiums have retractable roofs. That way there is never a game delay or any postponed games.
By Wayne
October 29, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this
Leftovers from the previous blog.
Who’d ever thought Braves fans and Anders would have common ground. I am with you. BTW, I was a Mets fan back in ‘69 after they beat my Braves in the first divisional series in the NL.
Ed Charles, Ed Kranepool, Art Shamsky, Donn Clendenon, Tommy Agee, Bud Harrelson, Wayne Garrett, Ron Taylor, Jerry Koosman, Tom Terrific, Ken Boswell, Jerry Grote, Gil Hodges, Dan Frisella, Gary Gentry, Tug McGraw, Nolan Ryan, Al Weis, Cleon Jones, and Ron Swoboda (my personal favorite).
Those are all I can remember off the top of my head, but I am sure I am forgetting a couple of other important members.
So, we have some things in common! (not much, but some…)
:-)
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 29, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
“McFann”—
HEY!!
RC After seeing McFann’s stats, Infante HAS to bat 4th next year! He got a hit without even having an AB after Chipper was walked!
Whoops! I meant 0-1, not 1-0. Sorry ‘bout that.
By Jeff R
October 29, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this
Hope management chooses to retain Ohman. If I recall, Wren could sign him in the $3 million range per season.
I think playing the World Series this late in October makes no sense. The weather delay has taken some of the excitement away from the event. And as you said, DOB, late starts and late finishes are horrible. Not the way baseball was intended to be played.
By Wayne
October 29, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this
Dave Thanks for the Ohman story. I sure hope we can work it out to keep him.
Original Jon As you are, I too am torn on the Series and the free agent filing period. If Tampa wins tonight, I suspect I will get re-energized.
Go Rays!
By Joe M.
October 29, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this
You know, it should be mandatory that all baseball stadiums have retractable roofs
Heck no!
Baseball is meant to be played outside, in the sun. If it is raining, than delay or postpone. Way better option than an eyesore roof.
And football? What is their excuse? They don’t cancel games for weather and a lot of them play in those idiotic domes….a big reason I’ve never been to a Falcons game in my lifetime.
By Braveheart
October 29, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
When it is brutally cold, I sure don’t want to feel the cannonballs fired by madson, lidge or price hitting the end of my bat or on my fists. You might as well put your hands into a hornet’s nest if you want to know what the sting is gonna feel like when these guys somehow make contact tonight
By Braveheart
October 29, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
Bud Selig should be like Isiah Thomas and just blame his daughter for the situation
By Bobby's Cox
October 29, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
I disagree DOB,
I hope the series goes 7. What better way for the sport to redeem itself? Baseball always finds a way. I remember a game in 2004 where non-baseball fans were glued to a Red Sox/Yankess game 4 that went on to the wee hours of the night. I’m eager for fanatics to switch from football to baseball to see one helluva ending in game 7.
There’s plenty of David Price to go around in a series that goes 7. He can go 3+ to start the suspension today, come around and pitch some more in relief in a thrilling Fall Classic in game 7. This series has been Philthy, no doubt, but it shouldn’t end that way.
By cabravesfan
October 29, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this
Thanks for hte update on Ohman…really like the guy and he was an important part of our pen last year- hope we can keep him
You know, it should be mandatory that all baseball stadiums have retractable roofs. That way there is never a game delay or any postponed games.
Nice idea but how do you propose to pay for that? Retractable roofs are not cheap…a better idea is to not have so many off days between play off games and, oh, i don’t know, NOT START THE SEASON A WEEK LATER THEN NORMAL (just a thought)
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 29, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this
AHEM……Thank you for the new Blog…Chief.
Good stuff from Ohman!
By cabravesfan
October 29, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this
By the way I am by no means endorsing domed stadiums- always hated them…
By Bobby's Cox
October 29, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
To Braveheart’s disgust,
There was a popular debate on the last blog that was not started by me. Somehow my name came up, but I in no way want to go there.
Instead, I want to talk Nelson Cruz. Seriously, can’t we get this guy for James Parr and Diaz?
By Brian
October 29, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this
VERY smart move if the Braves re-sign this guy because we all know how important those guys(bullpen) are, especially in the postseason! I think they will.
Hopefully Ohman reads this because releivers harldy ever get the credit they deserve!
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 29, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this
Ohman, who interrupted the phone call to tell his son that he’d banged away enough on the piano and that it was time to get ready for his nap.
LOL! Yeah, the piano is a beautiful instrument…but if you bang on it a couple times, it’s one of the worst sounding instruments—after the badly-played violin.
By Jake
October 29, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this
I disagree Joe M. Domes are suitable for some cities who are subject to weather patterns that aren’t good baseball weather like Milwaukee, Florida, and that hot desert weather out in Arizona. The problem with cities like Philadelphia is that once fall rolls around on the east coast weather becomes less predictable. Atlanta’s weather right now is not that far off from Philly. Football is a completely different sport and there is no comparison to baseball. Football kind of embraces the elements. Domes aren’t bad for football either. The dome in atlanta allows us to host bowls, championship series, and tournaments that wouldn’t be considered for cities without them.
By TampaGator
October 29, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this
If the umpires have anything to do with it, and they have had a lot to do with the outcomes of cames so far, the Phillies will wrap it up tonight. I have never seen such one-sided umpiring (in favor of the Phillies) in all my life…not since the fat guy umpire behind the place in the Braves/Marlins series a few years back (I still believe that guy was kicked out of umpiring because he took money to throw that game to the Marlins). Everyone if Tampa thinks these umps are on the take. It sure appears to be the case. Pitches thrown down the middle are balls for the Rays, and balls a foot outside are strikes for the Phillies. Balks are not balks for the Phillies. And tag outs at third are not tag outs if you are tagging out a Phillie. It is a shame that the umpires have pre-determined who is going to win this series. It is obvious that that is the case.
By Duke
October 29, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
DOB, new SOA tonight. Should be a pretty dicey one too. Jax has a lot on his hands after last weeks brutal ending… Trying to profit off the guns and Sich. Have you heard Aaron Harangs name come up any? Seems as if Bobby likes him and he has upside, plus he eats a lot of innings.
By Braveheart
October 29, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this
And football? What is their excuse? They don’t cancel games for weather and a lot of them play in those idiotic domes….a big reason I’ve never been to a Falcons game in my lifetime.
I hear ya on that. I can’t stand the Georgia Dome. But domes make it easier to get stadiums built and make it easier to have income generating events besides the 8 football games a year ….. like the Final Four, the SEC basketball tournament, the SEC football championship, the Chick-Fil-A Bowl, the state high school football playoffs and the Super Bowl in areas outside of Florida and California.
It’s about generating revenue. Stadiums are more visually pleasing but don’t generate as much revenue outside of the 8 football games a year. Without alternative sources of potential revenue, it’s awfully hard to justify to the taxpayers building a stadium for only 8 football games a year of revenue (for a stadium that will likely be outdated in 10 to 15 years, thus requiring building a new one)..
As for retractable domes, those are sometimes more costly than just a dome or just a stadium. Even though the NFL promised New York/New Jersey a Super Bowl if they built a retractable dome to replace Giants Stadium, the decision was made not build a retractable dome because the retractable roof would have cost an extra $200 million dollars….. a cost that may have altogether nixed the building of any new facility because the state and the taxpayers wouldn’t have forked over the money for it. …..
so instead they are building a new stadium instead of a regular dome or a retractable dome …. key to that I’m sure is that the area already gets NCAA basketball regionals at the Meadowlands, is not a likely location for a BCS football conference championship, is not a likely location for a bowl game since they’re not that crazy about college football in the New York metro area, and the Big East basketball tournament is already conducted in Madison Square Garden.
The only real extra potential source of revenue would have been the Super Bowl. I’m guessing they made the decision that the revenue generated by the Super Bowl would not offset the cost to the taxpayers of a $200 million dollar retractable roof.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 29, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this
cabravesfan a better idea is to not have so many off days between play off games and, oh, i don’t know, NOT START THE SEASON A WEEK LATER THEN NORMAL
AMEN!! April 6 is WAY too late!! Don’t know if I cann wait that long!
By Joe M.
October 29, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this
Football kind of embraces the elements.
Than why are there are so many more roofed stadiums in football?
Screw indoor baseball and football. If the Atlanta Braves ever play if a dumb roofed park (which the Ted thankfully does not have), that is the day I never attend another Braves’ game.
By Jim
October 29, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this
If you are going to play at night, start the game at 7:30, not the pre-game hype, but the game itself, and maybe it will end before 11:00 and maybe some kids will get to see a few innings anyway.
I go back to the age of day games in the World Series and 8-team leagues. (I was actually at the Stadium for Don Larsen’s perfect game — the only WS game I ever saw live.) Back then, we all smuggled our transistor radios into school to keep up with the games while the classes were going on. With only 16 teams there were only 10-15 different cities represented (changing during the 50’s with moves of the Braves, Browns, A’s, Dodgers, and Giants). So fans in other parts of the country adopted teams to root for. Thus the 2 teams in the series represented 1/8 of the fan base (more by volume because more fans rooted for the better teams). Today the series represents 1/15 of the fan distribution. The extended season, the increased playoff rounds, the greater fragmentation of the fan base, the greater overlapping of the sport season, and the hours during which the games are played have all contributed to the diminished interest in the Series.
By cabravesfan
October 29, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this
McFann
Not only is it way too late- Game 7 of the World Series would be played on November 5…anyone else see a problem with that?
By Wayne
October 29, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this
cabravesfan Not if it’s the Angels against San Diego…
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
October 29, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this
Wrigley Field, Fenway Park or domed stadiums.
I’ll stick with the status quo. The Twins play in a damn glad bag. they are building a new park (Target Field) and it won’t have a roof.
By Original Jon
October 29, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this
Well, this year is the World Baseball Classic, so that might be why its starting a few days later than normal. But I agree with some that the season should be shortened by about 10 games.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 29, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this
cabravesfan—
I got a big problem with it. As much as I love baseball, it’s supposed to be over by November.
And I’m sure all the Northern contenders feel the same way.
By matlanta
October 29, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this
DOB,
so magglio ordonez is available for trade, any thoughts on the braves being in on that? he’s a boras client, set to make about $51M over the next 3 years, which is about market value for a guy of his caliber. apparently the tigers are looking for a shortstop, a catcher, and bullpen help — think the braves could pull off a trade if they put together a package similar to escobar, soriano, and flowers?
By Jake
October 29, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this
I agree with you on that Joe. I love the Ted and I don’t want them to make baseball in Atlanta ever domed. I was just saying in some cities they really need them. What I meant by football embracing the weather is that when that bad weather comes to places like New England they are not going to postpone or delay a game, they just play. I agree with braveheart though in that in atlanta because of the dome we get to host all those other events besides just football for the falcons.
By cabravesfan
October 29, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this
Wayne
You have a point (it is still gorgeous out here…was 85 today) but everyone else may see things a little differently:)
By BrandonC
October 29, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
I would LOVE to see Ohman in a Braves uni next season.
By keylargo
October 29, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
I bet cabravesfan would not like a 7:30 start time too much since she would still be at work at 4:30 in California. That would have to take some of the fun out of the Braves being in the series.
so magglio ordonez is available for trade, any thoughts on the braves being in on that? he’s a boras client, set to make about $51M over the next 3 years, which is about market value for a guy of his caliber. apparently the tigers are looking for a shortstop, a catcher, and bullpen help — think the braves could pull off a trade if they put together a package similar to escobar, soriano, and flowers? malanta
Yes, the Braves would make that deal if Boras promised to retire and send the Braves $100,000,000 for being a pain in the but all these years.
By 18 Wheels of Love
October 29, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
DOB,
The Secret Life of Bees…I want your review.
18WOL
By Efrim
October 29, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this
Ken Rosenthal has a new article up:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8734330/Brewers-set-to-throw-$100-million-at-CC
Here is the part about Peavy to the Braves:
The Braves and Padres remain at an impasse in their trade discussions concerning right-hander Jake Peavy, sources say.
The Padres are believed to be asking for five players, knowing the Braves parted with that many when they acquired first baseman Mark Teixeira and left-hander Ron Mahay from the Rangers.
Of course, the players and combinations remain fluid, and the final package could hinge on whether the Braves take back shortstop Khalil Greene as a replacement for Yunel Escobar, who likely would be included in the deal.
For the moment, the Braves remain opposed to trading Class AA right-hander Tommy Hanson, who has pitched 8 2/3 scoreless innings in the Arizona Fall League and could be in the Atlanta rotation next season.
The Padres’ discussions with other clubs about Peavy also are quiet, but the talks are certain to resume next week at the general managers’ meetings in Dana Point, Ca.
By mbatl
October 29, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this
escobar, soriano, and flowers
That, plus $51 mil, for Ordonez? Geez!
I’d love to have the guy, but you don’t give up a young starting SS and a top-10 prospect when the other side wants nothing but salary relief.
How ‘bout Lillibridge and Royce Ring for Ordonez?
And, the fact that Boras is his agent doesn’t really matter in a trade situation.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 29, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this
Original Jon Well, this year is the World Baseball Classic
Oh yeah…doggone it! When do they announce the rosters for that dumb thing?
(Please let there be no Braves in it!!)
By keylargo
October 29, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this
I hope the Braves learned their lesson by letting Ron Mahay get away from them. I know they did not really pursue him, but he was every bit as good of a pitcher as Will Ohman is.
Both Ohman and Mahay had good years in 08 (VERY comparable stats). Mahay signed a two year deal with the Royals for $8 million and I believe it will take at least that to sign Ohman, but I think the Braves will at least make an offer in that range. Just hope someone doesn’t go 3 years and $15 million.
By BT
October 29, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this
If double headers were good enough for Mickey Mantle they are good enough for Gregor Blanco!
By David O'Brien
October 29, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this
18 Wheels, I haven’t seen it.
By keylargo
October 29, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
cabravesfan
How do you feel about starting times out there on the West Coast? I know I (east coast) would not mind the 7:30 start times for sporting events (and hate anything that starts at 9:00). But I know the West Coast and even Wayne in Utah has to be taken into consideration.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 29, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
mbatl How ‘bout Lillibridge and Royce Ring for Ordonez?
Not bad…but didn’t they ditch Ring?
By Barack H. Obama
October 29, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
I’m so great I’m delaying the game with my 30 minute infomercial. Let me add that I hope you don’t think I totally stole the idea of buying large blocks of time on network channels from H. Ross Perot.
By mbatl
October 29, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this
McFann, oh, I guess you’re right! Hard to keep up with our revolving door of lefty relievers!
By Braveheart
October 29, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this
I hope the Braves learned their lesson by letting Ron Mahay get away from them. I know they did not really pursue him, but he was every bit as good of a pitcher as Will Ohman is
The lesson though may be that as good as they may be, Wren can find another just like them but cheaper.
Wren may already have his eyes set on two or three lefties he might be able to trade for who would be just as good ….. just like how he easily found Ohman to be just as good as Mahay.
I’d sign Ohman though. They need a strong back end of the bullpen.
There is another reason though that has nothing to do with money or baseball performance. This was a very rough year for the pen.
Boyer can be a turd, Soriano sulks, Acosta pouts and no one much cares to hear from the other middle relievers.
It seems to me that Ohman and maybe Gonzalez are much more gregarious and will shoulder the burden of taking fire from the media.
Imagine how rough this season could have been for the other relievers out there if a guy like Ohman wasn’t there to talk to DOB and keep the wolves at bay. A smile and a conversation with DOB by Ohman shields the less friendly and less accountable others from getting torn to shreds by the media and the fans.
Maybe that’s overrated but ……. younger, more sensitive relievers oftentimes need a tougher vet who is more comfortable in his skin like Ohman to do their talking and blame taking for them
And, as much as I sometimes give Smoltz a hard time about his mouthiness annoying me, Smoltz and Chipper, as the superstar vets, also shoulder the burden of keeping the media away from the kids who aren’t quite ready to take the weight just yet. If the kids want to hide in the trainer’s room, the vets will do their talking for them.
And I’ll say this for Smoltz, Ohman and Chipper, they don’t act like punks like Billy Wagner and Loduca and cry about taking the weight and say go over there and talk to Those Guys.
If you’re gonna take the weight, take it …… but spare us the b.s. hero/martyr complex about having to carry the weight like Wagner and Loduca did ……..
Maybe the Mets clubhhouse wouldn’t have crumbled the last two years if their so-called leaders acted like leaders instead of posing like leaders while crying like woe-is-me-martyrs.
I’ll give credit to David Wright though …… he does seem to shoulder the burden that Reyes won’t without ever crying about it or telling the media to go talk to Reyes.
By keylargo
October 29, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this
McFann
I think the Tiggers are basically just trying to dump the salary on Ordonez, kind of like we will be in a year or two.
Only difference will be that we won’t be able to dump it and will have to eat it. We’ll have a couple of thumpers up from the farm, chomping at the bit to play and the Braves will just have to play Ordonez because we are paying him $18mm.
It’ll be quite an inglorious ending for the highest paid Brave.
By Kevin C
October 29, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this
DOB
Are the Braves interested in Garret Anderson? Also if you had to take odds, what do you think regarding the Braves getting Peavy without Hanson in a deal?
Thanks
By keylargo
October 29, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this
McFann
Would you rather watch the Phillies win the WS, listen to Barack O’Bama for 30 minutes, or just shut the computer off early and do some Algebra problems?
By cabravesfan
October 29, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this
keylargo
I, of course, don’t mind the late starts at all- it’s nice to get home from work and see the start of a game instead of the 3rd inning…I have to deal with Braves games starting at 4:00 during the regular season which really sucks (thank god for Tivo and fast forward!) but I do understand the problems with starting a play-off game at 8:30 or later (NFL actually moved Monday Night Football becasue they realized 9:00 starts were ridiculous)
By David O'Brien
October 29, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this
Kevin C, I really don’t know what the odds are, but I think there’s a fairly good chance the Braves can get Peavy without giving up Hanson. Or Heyward.
By David O'Brien
October 29, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, you made some good points, good observations about both the Braves and Mets.
By ncscoots
October 29, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this
keylargo, It’s not that I’m man-crushing on Ordonez, but what’s a reasonable alternative for the next two years (assuming that studs-in-waiting actually do become studs for real)? A free agent is going to demand more than three years and at least similar money. Settle for a second- or third-tier OF just because he’s cheaper, and hope for the best? That doesn’t excite.
I’m not trying to bust chops here, but give me some hope for another answer, man, LOL. I’m way open to it. Until then, a reasonable trade scenario for Ordonez and his years and dollars seems the best option so far floated on the blog.
By BravesFanInRockies
October 29, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this
Wayne (from last blog),
The Rox need a 2B, CF and arms, arms, arms.
They’d like KJ a lot. I don’t think the Braves would do that.
I also like Seth Smith, a 26-y.o. lefty OF who projects to be a better hitter than Spilborghs and was actually considered to be a better prospect than Tulo a couple of years back.
Prado and JoJo/Morton for Spilborghs might be doable, and the Braves would really like the results. Prado, Anderson and Medlen for those two might do it as well.
By caballo muerto
October 29, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
GO GO GO RAYS!
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 29, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this
mbatl—
That’s OK. I had kinda forgotten about him till you mentioned it.
Keylargo—
Yeah, I’m not really for getting Ordonez—but if it weren’t for that huge salary it might not be too bad…though I don’t know a whole lot about him except that he hits, he has bad hair, and he plays for the Tigers right now.
As for your multiple choice Q—I’m gonna hafta go with the Algebra problems all the way!
I might watch bits and pieces of the WS…I’ll be like Ohman: If I walk in the room, and the WS is on, I’ll see what’s up.
OK…if y^2 = x+3…and x - 22 = -16…
By mbatl
October 29, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this
man, seems like this has been a long game…
By keylargo
October 29, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
Scoots, I am really wary of the last year on Ordonez’s contract. I just don’t think he will be among the best three outfielders we will have and at $18 million, he NEEDS to be.
Say our payroll is $125 million. Guess who is making 14% of it? A bench player/pinch hitter that’s who. A number 1 or a number 2 pitchers salary.
I do admit I am more of a long term fan and not so much of an instant gratification type. I would rather rebuild and be strong for a long time instead of playing .525 ball and losing in the first round of the playoffs. And yes I realize that might mean another year or two out of the playoffs.
By AdirondackDave
October 29, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
Sure hope the Braves bring Ohman back, he did a heckuva job. (Not in the heckuva, Brownie sense, of course.)
By Eric from MO
October 29, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this
Fans need to stop complaining. You hear in April that the season starts to early and in October that the season ends to late. Guess, it can rain anytime of the year. It can rain in any month of the year. Thats just the way it is.
By flange1
October 29, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this
Evening All,
Been trying to recoup from the flu, so have been reading alot and not posting.
I like the talk about getting an Ordonez or a Dye for LF. In my mind they are EXACTLY what the Braves need, short contracts for competent hitters that add a veteran presence.
I don’t like the FA options for LF.
Getting Ordonez or Dye in a “salary dump” type of trade would be better.
We have money to spend, lets spend it.
I wonder if the Tigers would consider Lillibridge, B Jones and B Boyer for Ordonez? They need a SS, C and relief pitching, we cover 2 of those spots and give them a player to replace Mags in right….
Nice shot Rocco!
By Jake
October 29, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
1st hit for Baldelli in the series is a homerun. For all that guy has been through that’s great. The odds are on philly’s side but I hope the Rays can pull this off. They showed some fight all year. Playing in a division with the yanks and the sox should help the Rays.
By Jim
October 29, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this
A good fielding decent hitting shortstop is more valuable than a good hitting average fielding OF. This is especially true if there is a significant age advantage for the SS. We don’t have a suitable replacement for Escobar in the system and Greene is not the same caliabre player as Escobar. We don’t need to pick up expensive older players like Ordonez and Anderson that their current clubs feel are no longer worth the money they cost.
By caballo muerto
October 29, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this
WOO HOO!
I actually turned the sound back on for that Baldelli HR. Then, after cringingly listening to Buck and McCarver for 3 seconds, I quickly muted again.
By BravesFanInRockies
October 29, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
BTW, Peter Gammons apparently wrote today that MLB might consider moving the World Series to a neutral site, or at least a city with a dome (or Southern California, I suppose).
I don’t like it. Because every ballpark is different, baseball offers the biggest home field advantage of any sport. You’d lose that by moving the Series.
My answer is to lose a few off days during the regular season (and the postseason), schedule a few more double headers and have the World Series start earlier. But MLB won’t do that because it would cut into TV revenues. Dumb, really dumb.
By Robert
October 29, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this
Is Joe Maddon trying to lose this game. He lets Balfour face Jenkins, then the LHP face Burrell. He is as bad as Bobby Cox
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 29, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
Eric—
Who’s says April is too early?
By jj
October 29, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
I hope the Braves do get Peavey and I would take Khailil Greene in the trade.I believe Green would have a great year in Atlanta with new team and Hubbie to work with him. I would not trade Hanson or Heyward unless I had to.
Go Rays!! DOB stay warm..Boy, the ball cares in that wind.
By Deep Throat
October 29, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
Is Joe Maddon trying to lose this game. He lets Balfour face Jenkins, then the LHP face Burrell. He is as bad as Bobby Cox
You kidding me? Bobby Cox went positively crazy this year with the whole lefty-righty thing (especially early in the season); blowing through 2-4 pitchers in a single inning with extreme regularity. It was like Bobby Cox got amnesia and thought he was Tony LaRussa.
By cameron
October 29, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
Watch this game 5 go long into extra innings haha. I really want the Rays to win this, but im read for the offseason to begin and lets all the trades start so we can get ready for next season. And im with Ohman trade for Peavy, sign Lowe. And oh yeah, sign Ohman also. And for all the people that suggested sign Baldelli, you know he has that desease that makes his body get so tired he can barely last through a whole game? Thats who yall want haha. Sign a big HR bat like Dunn, because that does 2 things to the lineup, not only is he a power threat, but think of the pitches Chipper Jones will get to hit with him behind him.
DOB What do you think of the Braves going to Tampa and trying to trade for one of thier young pitchers like Jackson, Sonninstine, etc?
By Bo
October 29, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
Agree ROBERT it looked alot like Bobby Cox trying to lose. But I hope Rays Win.
By Braveheart
October 29, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
A very bad sign for the Rays. The Rays are covering their ears and are all bundled up.
It reminds me of Michael Vick in Chicago and in philly for the conference championship game a few years ago. Vick sat on the bench the whole game bundled up in that big ole ridiculous winter coat that looked like a blanket, looking like he’d rather be anywhere but at that game. Ever since then I’ve believed that the dudes who bundle up are destined to lose.
An an outfielder, why would you cover your ears? It muffles the sound of the crack of the bat …….. it could be that it’s hard as heck to hear the crack of the bat anyway with the crowd and the weather but why take a chance of dulling any of your senses that assist you in gauging how well a ball is struck? Maybe I sound crazy but it seems to me like judging a flyball off the crack of the bat is done visually as well as maybe somewhat with the sound. Whatever the case may be, I wouldn’t chance it with ear muffs dulling any of my senses.
Would that first flyball have fallen in if they had judged the ball better off the crack of the bat?
By cameron
October 29, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
i guess the offseason will start tomorrow.
By Jake
October 29, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this
Wouldn’t it be something if Brad Lidge picked this night to blow his first save of the year or at least that’s what i’m hoping.
By kirknga
October 29, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this
So if Escobar is part of a Peavy trade, who replaces him at the top of the order?
I don’t see Green as a top of the order guy.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 29, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
Jake—
I’d stand up and say “Yay!”
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 29, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this
BTW—The answer to my algebra problem is y = 3, x = 6.
By A-villle Ranger
October 29, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this
Congratulations to Philly,I called them in 6…oh well,nobody’s perfect.
By Philadelphia Riot Police
October 29, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this
Uh-oh.
By cameron
October 29, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
Well gotta say congradulations to the Phillies. Now its time for the Braves to start building for thier World Series next year.
By cabravesfan
October 29, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
This has to be one of the signs of the apocalypse…
By StingerSplash
October 29, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this
Congrats to the Phils. That is a very good team, good lineup, great bullpen, underrated starting pitching after Hamels. They earned it and they deserved it.
By kirknga
October 29, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this
Well that’s a wrap for this season. Congrats to the Phillies.
Are we officially in hot stove time now?
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 29, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
Fooey.
By Thrillhouse44
October 29, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
Thrill’s thoughts on the Series:
I hate Philly.
Both teams have an unnecessary star on their uniform. Dotting the “i” in Phillies with a star is lame, but what in the world is the significance of the star on the Rays’ uni?
Why are all championship hats so fugly? You rarely see a decent looking one.
Man, Ken Rosenthals looked like a midgit, didn’t he?
By richbrave
October 29, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this
keylargo:
OBAMA for 30, hands down.
By 22oz
October 29, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this
To add to the misery, we get to see Boog in the background interview Rollins with an ESPN microphone? Why Boog why? I’m confused how someone can work for BOTH ESPN and Foxsports. Conflict of interest if you ax me.
By Mr. J
October 29, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this
Kirknga,
If Escobar goes, then whoever wins the CF job has to lead off, with KJ batting 2nd. Green would bat 7 or 8.
By justafan
October 29, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this
Fox Sports is the pits even TBS has them beat. Congrat to both Teams.
By BravesFanChris24
October 29, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this
As much as I don’t like it, I must give some props. They earned it. Even with the stuff that put a damper on the WS, it was two fresh new teams and they kept it relatively close throughout.
Now, onto the off season festivities.
By NO MORE BOBBY
October 29, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
I knew there was something special about this years Phillies the way they kicked our butts all season.
SMOLTZ FOR MANAGER 2010!!!!!
By BravesFanChris24
October 29, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this
As much as I don’t like it, I must give some props. They earned it. Even with the stuff that put a damper on the WS, it was two fresh new teams and they kept it relatively close throughout.
Now, onto the off season festivities.
Sorry if posted twice.
By The Commish
October 29, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this
Starting next year all World Series games will be 3 innings long.
Also, home field advantage will no longer be determined by the All-Star Game winner. Instead, a race will be held in the middle of the 5th inning of the All-Star Game. The participants will be the Rally Monkey representing the American League and the Milwaukee Bratwurst representing the National League. Winner gets home field advantage. It’s time to bring excitement back to the mascot races.
By Jake
October 29, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this
So I guess this makes the Phillies the team to beat again. Now that we got that out the way its time to see what the Braves do this offseason. Tampa should have the better long term outcome afterall the Braves didn’t get it their first time either.
By Stirring The Pot Again
October 29, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
So - Utley or Howard for MVP?
By Random
October 29, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this
Lew: “Random-Your humor is painful at best.”
I’ll take that as a “yes” — GREAT!!!
Bill James on Is Pitching 75% of Baseball? (paraphrased and updated from ‘86):
If P=.75B, why aren’t 7 or 8 of the highest-paid (p.a.) players pitchers? (Only 3 are — Santana, Zambrano & Zito, per Cot’s.)
If P=.75B, you’d expect three-quarters of league MVPs would have been pitchers. (Only 10 — 13.0% — of 77 AL, & 9 — 11.7% — of 77 NL MVPs were pitchers.)
If P=.75B, you’d expect three-quarters of the leagues’ Rookies of the Year would have been pitchers. (Since ‘49, only 31 — 25.8% — of 120 RsOY were pitchers.)
If P=.75B, you’d expect to have 3 pitching coaches for every other (bench/base/hitting/etc) coach.
If P=.75B, you’d expect three-quarters of Hall of Fame players to be pitchers. (Only 72 — 31.4% — of 229 HoF players were pitchers.)
And there’s even more, if anyone’s interested.
By dgd
October 29, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this
Way to go Phils—well deserved! And, for a different perspective, as a girl, I must say they have the all-hunk team as well: Burrell, Utley, and Hamels……sigh.
By kirknga
October 29, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this
Mr. J, That sounds like a receipt for disaster. Perhaps KJ leading off again..Ugh! And then CF 2nd?
I think we should’ve learned with Marcus Giles that just sticking someone in the leadoff spot because there isn’t anyone else is a bad idea.
By Wayne
October 29, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this
Congratulations Philadelphia (it sure pains me to say it)!!
By Wayne
October 29, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this
Well, if there is a deal in place, we should know by Saturday….
By uga-brave
October 29, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this
do you think the phillies got thier money’s worth out of michael bourn?
By Wayne
October 29, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this
If Escobar is dealt, I think you will see one of the CF’ers in the leadoff spot. Just my guess.
By N Nine
October 29, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this
Hitters: MVP-Chipper Jones, LVP-Jeff Francouer(easily)
Pitchers: MVP-Jair Jurrjens, LVP-Rafael Soriano
Tough one on LVP pitcher cause Elmer Dessens(doesn’t count)- JoJO or even Ring.Boyer was terrible at best. But Soriano takes the cake! Congrats
BTW CONGRATS to the Phillies!!! Glad they got that out of the way maybe we will become more hungry for a championship. Very fitting to have Brad Perfect Lidge finish the season and win it all. McFann i guess Victorino gets the last laugh this year. For those folks that absolutely couldn’t wait for offseason (even for Rays sake) there you go now its time for
Frank Wren to shine. I think DOB’s 8:16 p.m tells it all for me. Lets do it!!!!! Wren’s got get prepared to close out this deal heading into the all important G.M meeting.
We need to get this done. If you feel this is not an important step then you don’t have the win now mentality. We are not years away but only few moves away. Don’t kid yourself.
We all should be excited for this upcomming offseason and it all starts now……..
By richbrave
October 29, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this
PEAVY at a reasonable price - not at any price.
By Wayne
October 29, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this
Random I believe pitching is the most significant element of the game. Obviously you can’t win if you don’t score, but go back and look at most of the World Series victories, and they are generally because a teams pitching either excelled, or collapsed on the part of the losing team.
You can make all the statements you would like, but it doesn’t change things.
Just my opinion….
By rico carty
October 29, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this
Is there any interest from Braves to go after Furcal if Escobar leaves via trade? That would solve the SS and leadoff problem, but at what price?
By Wayne
October 29, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this
N Nine Gotta disagree with you. Go back and check, but Boyer was very good for the first half of the year. He faded the last half, probably due in part to overuse.
As for Soriano, as it turns out, he had a definite issue with his arm. How truly bad it was, who knows? Personally, I think he might be a “softie”.
By keylargo
October 29, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
richbrave PEAVY at a reasonable price - not at any price
best post of the night
By kirknga
October 29, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
Right On richbrave! As someone said previously, the Braves are more than a Jake Peavy away from competing.
On a team with multiple holes, questions such as what is the top of the order going to look like and is the answer one that is an improvement or a step back from last season shouldn’t be taken lightly.
Saying the CF will lead off when we don’t even know who that’ll be is a bit worrisome to me.
By Phillies Don't Blow
October 29, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
NL East All Time World Series Championship Crowns: (2)Philadelphia Phillies (2)New York Mets (2)Florida Marlins (1)Atlanta Braves (0)Montreal Expos/Washington Nationals
By kirknga
October 29, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this
Boyer and Acosta were very good until they were overused. They were pitching every day at one point and this was only their first full season.
If the Braves can get 850+ innings from their starters then the pen, with Ohman, will be very good.
By CC Will Break Down
October 29, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this
Is that number in the WSJ possibly true? 200,000 jobs to be lost in NYC in total!! Apparently a bad time to be breaking in two new stadiums with all those luxury boxes. Stations also reporting on a “possible” effort to have had NEW Yankee Stadium property OVER appraised to enhance bond offers. State Attorney General may get involved. Apparently a bad time to be engaged in fiscal malfaesance.
By N Nine
October 29, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this
To me-Soriano was a HUGE letdown. Fresh off his new deal, so much was expected from him. He was counted on being the closer. Wasn’t really going on stats Wayne, my friend. Are you saying Boyer was abused wrongfully by Bobby? Looks like our “featured guy” Ohman pitched just as much and loved it! some just can’t hang…
Would love for Ohman to come back..He’s durable and can pitch! Plus DOB seems to always find good stories from him.
By Wayne
October 29, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this
kirknga As of today, how is it such a stretch to say if Escobar is dealt, then either Schafer, Anderson, or Blanco would be a good guess to be the leadoff hitter.
Not sure if I understand your comment of that being a bit worrisome? Just answering somebody else’s question….
By keylargo
October 29, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this
REALITY
Braves vs Phillies
C McCann vs Ruiz Braves
1B Kotchman vs. Howard Phillies
2B Johnson vs. Utley Phillies
3B Jones vs. Feliz Braves
SS Escobar vs. Rollins Phillies
LF Diaz vs. Burrell Phillies
CF Anderson vs. Victorino Phillies
RF Francoeur vs. Werth Phillies
SP Advantage Phillies
BP Toss up
By Wayne
October 29, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this
N Nine I agree that Soriano was a huge letdown. I was basically saying that if I were assigning awards for MVP/LVP, I probably wouldn’t give a LVP award to a legitimately injured player.
If that is the case, then how about Glavine, Smoltz, or Hudson. They were ALL huge letdowns.
As for Boyer/Acosta versus Ohman, well Wil is a vet. As kirk states, it was their first full season, and while they weren’t abused wrongfully by Bobby, due to the circumstances of the team (lack of total innings by our starters) they were definitely overused.
Maybe it’s all just semantics. Not trying to get you to change your mind. Just adding my 2 cents worth.
By kirknga
October 29, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this
Wayne, Anderson is speedy and had another good September at the big league level but it is still an open question as to whether or not he is an everyday player. We don’t yet know if Schafer can play at a major league level.
So the second part of my question which you overlooked is whether or not the answer represents an improvement or not?
I can’t confidently say that either Anderson or Schafer is as good, or an improvement over what we had. That means we’ve now have another question where there wasn’t one before. The idea is to answer questions not create more of them.
That is why I find it worrisome, not to mention the fact I feel Escobar is part of a core that shouldn’t be traded.
By N Nine
October 29, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this
Keylargo, Lets do that comparison once spring hits. Reality is that Marlins beat us with a 20 something million payroll. If we upgrade we should be competitive. Plus all numbers on paper don’t mean much thats why they play the game. Hopefully we will face less injuries and less one run losses(better luck).Hopefully Bobby will improve his decision making skills late in games. We shall fight…braves 09
By N Nine
October 29, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this
good points wayne :)
By kirknga
October 29, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this
Guys don’t forget that Ohman blew up in September!
By Wayne
October 29, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this
kirknga I see your point, and agree. All that we say, think, blog, dream and hope for is just an exercise in that it doesn’t matter…
Frank is going to make the deals, whether you or I like them. (come on Frank, let’s keep our kids!)
We can always hope though.
:-)
By uga-brave
October 29, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this
keylargo,
bullpen a toss up? gotta disagree with that.
the phillies did not loose one game this season when they lead after seven innings.
think about that and consider the homerun haven they play 81 games in.
if the phillies pick up one more really good starter they should be really good again.
the number to me that defies logic is jamie moyer went 16-7 with a 3.70 era.
seems just like yesterday that ryan zimmerman hit a walkoff against the braves to start the season.
By Wayne
October 29, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this
N Nine Amen!
As Tom Petty says, “The waiting, is the hardest part!”
By My Kingdom For A Platoon
October 30, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this
Good for the Rays & Phillies but I doubt we can duplicate what they did in one year. In general winning teams don’t rely on platoons is my point.cooper
pretty foolish statement there dude. Tell that to all those Yankee, Oriole and pirates teams that won regularly. In fact it’s somewhat difficult to find teams that don’t platoon at least in one spot. What, are you 12?
By David O'Brien
October 30, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this
kirknga, he “blew up” because he was worn out. He had the most appearance in the majors at the time he began to struggle, and the problem was that Cox didn’t trust anyone and/or didn’t have enough others healthy this year when he kept running Acosta, Boyer and Ohman out there every day in the first half.
Ohman is the only one who (almost) made it through the season without injury or slump.
By Thrillhouse44
October 30, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this
My Kingdom For A Platoon …pirates teams that won regularly. What, are you 72?
By Wayne
October 30, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this
uga you hit the nail on the head about Philly’s pen. Awesome job. That won’t happen again soon.
As somebody else mentioned earlier, I like our chances if we can avoid the injury bug next year. We got some decent talent coming up in the next few year, and I trust FW to make good decisions.
Nite all…
By Daybed Wagmoe
October 30, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this
keylargo: I was with you all the way on your comparisons between the Braves and Phillies breakdown by position until I saw “BP Toss Up,” at which point my eyes went wide in disbelief. You actually think that the Braves’ bullpen is as good as the Phillies’? Philadelphia’s bullpen is hands-down far better than the Braves, and they’re a HUGE reason why they just won the World Series (let alone win the division).
The Phillies’ BP ranked 1st in the NL in era, the Braves 12th, with the Phillies’ being a run better (3.22 to the Braves’ 4.25). And don’t forget that the Phillies had a far healthier pen — the Braves had 18 different pitchers from the pen this year to the Phillies’ 12.
Otherwise, I’d agree — very accurate assessment of the two teams.
DOB: It’s nice that that Phillies won the World Series, and it’s nice of the AJC.com to put a picture of Brad Lidge and Carlos Ruiz celebrating. Now can you guys PLEASE change that picture sooner rather than later??? I know that during the offseason, those Braves page pictures tend to remain the same for days at a time (it seems like they’re changed weekly). Coming to the Braves (ahem, BRAVES) blog is something I enjoy doing several times daily — looking at that picture for longer than a day or two is going to get very old, very fast.
I guess it could be worse. Lidge could be clogging to the Dropkick Murphys.
By keylargo
October 30, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this
N Nine that was not my point. My point was that if you add Peavy and Ordonez, we still don’t beat the Phillies on paper.
Do you add Peavy? Like richbrave said, at a reasonable cost. And like I have said before, Jurrjens will win as many games in the next four years as Peavy, only at $50 million less in salary.
Do you add Ordonez? So you can win 3 to 5 more games at a cost of $51 million? Not a reasonable cost.
Our future is down on the farm. I love to win and the Braves have done plenty of it. Now is the rebuilding time and it should be done properly and not be a temporary fix.
The worst thing that could ever happen is to trade our future away for a couple of 85 win seasons and be facing the same thing as we are now in 2011 with no prospects left.
By David O'Brien
October 30, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this
Those talking about Garrett Anderson — I think it’s most likely he’ll return to Angels at a reduced rate (lower price than the option that was declined). He’s been there his whole career. And he ain’t nearly the player he was.
As for Griffey, while I think he could be a good platoon player with Diaz, I also believe the Braves, in their current situation, have to get an every-day guy who can give them at least 25-30 homers in left. A true big bat still in his prime. Because they just have so much uncertainty in CF and, yes, in RF. Can’t count on Francoeur to put up big numbers. They’ve GOT to get a big bat in left, and I think they will, somehow, some way. At least they better….
That Nelson dude … I know he hit this year in majors, but there’s a reason he passed through waivers. I’ve just got to wonder if that wasn’t too small a sample size this year to be counting on him as a big bat, if you’re the Braves. I don’t get the impression they’d settle for him as the guy they’re looking for, not this year in this particular situation. Like I said, they need a bonafide, proven big bat in left field….
22oz, Boog was there working for ESPN, doing interviews for their postgame show and all that. Not for Fox.
By kirknga
October 30, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this
LOL…careful wayne, you’re sounding like one of those “prospect -huggers”!
I look forward to how the offseason unfolds. I don’t follow the minor leaguers closely. I rely mostly on the impressions of those who blog here. In doing so one thing I’ve noticed is that people tend to hype prospects and then sour on them quickly once they reach the big leagues.
So while Hanson sounds like a player the Braves should not trade, I can’t shake the notion that he is this offseason’s Charlie Morton.
By uga-brave
October 30, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this
michael bourn for brad lidge. kinda like melvin nieves for the crimedawg.
not in the phill’s wildest dreams did they think lidge would be this good.
probably the most important deal of the off season last year and one that came with modest fanfare.
you think the phillies are happy that it was bourn who the astros wanted instead of victorino?
By keylargo
October 30, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this
Daybed I should have put some kind of time frame on that comparison. I was thinking of the spring when I wrote that and was assuming we had Soriano, Gonzo, Moylan, Boyer, Acosta, Ohman back healthy.
You are right though that in no way does the Braves pen compare to the Phillies through the 08 season in any way.
By kirknga
October 30, 2008 12:42 AM | Link to this
DOB I know that…that was the point I was making to someone who implied that Ohman held up all season while being overused but Boyer didn’t.
I was just setting the record straight…not criticizing Ohman. I believe he should be retained, and that if the Braves can get 850+ innings from their starters, Boyer and Acosta will be very good.
By cameron
October 30, 2008 12:43 AM | Link to this
I have a question. If the Marlins are only asking for a major league ready relief pitcher, why dont we try and get him, he could be great off the bench, or he could play some 1st base to give kotchman a day off every once in a while, or cant he play OF too? I mean it might sound crazy to yall, but the guys got some power dont he? For just a major league ready relief pitcher id pick him up for power off the bench.
By StingerSplash
October 30, 2008 12:47 AM | Link to this
Just watched Ryan Adams on Letterman. Solid effort. Of course, it was just one song. Any longer and his head might have exploded. But gotta give the man props for his wardrobe — an Iron Maiden T-shirt. The Maiden rules! Bruce Dickinson is God! Let Eddie the Head loose! I’ll be quiet now.
By N Nine
October 30, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this
Keylargo,
I should have put some kind of time frame on that comparison. I was thinking of the spring when I wrote that keylargo
Oh ya? so your comparing 08 players and using them as 09 status? Braves won’t appear that way in ‘09.. How do you know Burrell will be there. just not making sense there….
Do you add Peavy? Like richbrave said, at a reasonable cost I would, what is reasonable?? Not having Hanson,Heyward, and freeman should make it somewhat reasonable ..we should push for peavy…I will never change my stance on that. Peavy is a difference maker.
Our future is down on the farm. I love to win and the Braves have done plenty of it. Now is the rebuilding time and it should be done properly and not be a temporary fix
Adding Peavy for four or five years is NOT a temporary fix! We have been rebuilding for sometime, ie Baby Braves. As Braveheart was saying a few days ago, we should strive in making team better, we need to improve while heading into the right direction.
With all that said Keylargo, don’t get me wrong our prospects are important and should be handled right… The part we won’t agree on is that we are a few players away from being competitive which can be achieved without touching the future core players.
By Supes
October 30, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this
One more thing worst than the Phillies winning a WS title, the Mets winning one. At least we avoided that scenario.
BTW…when Cole Hamels becomes a free agent he’s as good as gone. Angels or Dodgers will be standing waiting with open checkbooks and he is a west coast guy…so enjoy it while it lasts with Hamels as the Phillie’s ace.
Braves need to make a strong push for Jake Peavy, Matt Cain, Derek Lowe, Zack Grienke, and other available options.
Frank Wren’s GM legacy/career will be definied by what he does this off-season to improve the team.
This is 3 straight years Braves have been out of the playoffs. Unacceptable (Yes we can chalk up 08 to the freaky injuries and Jeff laying an egg…on a nightly basis), but what about next year? It’s time for this team, starting with the GM to step up and be a winner again!
By BravesFan79
October 30, 2008 2:01 AM | Link to this
loosing Ohman would hurt our chances at winning next year just as much as loosing Escobar would!
Besides 3 million shouldnt be such a big deal anyways when the Braves will probably throw a mill or so at a few other relievers that are HALF as good….. Sorry but id rather have 1 REALLY GOOD 3 million/ relief pitcher, than 3 average 1 million relief pitchers.
Congrats to the Phillies…. i was rooting for them as i just didnt think tampa bay deserved a WS title. Besides i like the coaching staff at Philly and was going for Charlie Manuel.
By nitram odarp
October 30, 2008 2:10 AM | Link to this
the worst part about the Filthies winning the world series is we now have another year of Rollins running his mouth saying they are the team to beat. although that may be hard to argue right now still hate it when he runs his mouth
By BA
October 30, 2008 2:17 AM | Link to this
Couldn’t have said it better- put this Series out of it’s misery. A team I despise (those damn Phillies- except for Rollins- that kid is just too smooth to hate on) and a team I can barely identify (who the h- Balfour? Howell? who was that Rays rightfielder- Mutroz or Deltriz or something). A fitting (and boring) end to what turned out to be (after Skip and all) the WORST baseball season of my life. No offense, DOB- didn’t hurt the quality of the MIB/Braves/Crusading Everyman/McFann/Birds/Turtles/BBQ/vorq blog. Always a nice read, every freaking time. Your Caray piece (when it happened) was second only to Pete’s pre-game send-off for Skip. Van Wieren’s voice never wavered…what a hardazz. Two great broadcasters, they will be sorely missed.
So DOB, they announcing Peavy tomorrow or what? C’mon, DOB, we know you’re holding out on us!
By nolie
October 30, 2008 2:29 AM | Link to this
with Soriano and Gonzo on the payroll, I will be kinda surprised if Wren springs for Ohman.
By scottbravesfan
October 30, 2008 2:48 AM | Link to this
I get the feeling that the Padres will not trade Peavy to the Braves. Probably won’t trade him at all. Sounds like they are wanting a ton back for him. Which is great for Peavy as he’ll get to waste his prime years in San Diego while they rebuild.
By My Kingdom For A Platoon
October 30, 2008 2:59 AM | Link to this
My Kingdom For A Platoon …pirates teams that won regularly. What, are you 72?Thrillhouse 44
I don’t think you have to be 72 to remember the entire decade of the 70s, just not being senile yet ought to do it.
By Random
October 30, 2008 6:12 AM | Link to this
Wayne: “I believe pitching is the most significant element of the game… . You can make all the statements you would like, but it doesn’t change things.”
It wasn’t me “makin’ statements”, but Bill F.* James — don’t be puttin HIS words in MY mouth at the same time I’m tryin’ to put them in YOUR ears.
8-)
PS: Stirring The Pot Again: “So - Utley or Howard for MVP?”
Sorry, we’ve taken that discussion to other venues.
You may join us there, if you’d like. As may anyone else who cares or is interested.
By My Entire Team Sucks
October 30, 2008 6:59 AM | Link to this
Does anyone know if the Rising Stars Showcase is going to be on mlb tv ??
By fansince66
October 30, 2008 7:18 AM | Link to this
Opening day lineup - 09
Anderson - CF KJ - LF Chipper - 3B McCann - C Kotchman - 1B Frenchie - RF Greene - SS Prado/Infante - 2B Peavey - P
I’ll take it
By BravesFan79
October 30, 2008 7:24 AM | Link to this
Keylargo: You Seriously think Rollins is better than Escobar?? Escobar is better on offense AND defense!!
And YES…. with a bullpen of Gonzo, Ohman, Moylan, and Smoltz coming back we WOULD have one of the best bullpens in the NL!! Now if we could only find a way to dump Soriano on another team and keep Ohman……
By JimD
October 30, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this
MLB could shorten the season without reducing the number of games with one simple return to the “old days” … double headers. One twin bill a month would shorten the season by a week without reducing the number of games.
Sure, there would be other double headers caused by rainouts and such, but these guys are highly paid and trained athletes. It is not asking to much for them to play 2 GAMES on a single day.
Of course this will not happen. The owners will not go for it because it eats into the $$$$, and the players will not go for it because they can’t stay out as late the night before and sleep as late on the day of the DH.
But it could give some relief.
By Kevin
October 30, 2008 8:11 AM | Link to this
The Phillies won for there players played the manager was there not beatin his wife(U know who i mean).Yes if bobby cox was phillies manager they would had lost last night n 2 in tampa givin the Rays there first championship…See the way went 1991 we won west beat Pirates get in WS n like Tampa twinkles should been defected but cox was here n u know choke is his name…
By kevin
October 30, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this
No bud n friends should had started all games at 4pm starts…get more viewers n be better games not this 8:30pm starts..it stupid baseball n folks need change startin times….all games at 3pm if east teams to central time zone say if a west coast time is in start at 6pm here n be 3pm start there u get me…I say also if a game is rain out n tied after 6innings its a tie and start over…so what if say if phillies won 4-1-1 u would still be played at same spot where rain out was….
By 22oz
October 30, 2008 8:25 AM | Link to this
DOB, i know he was working for ESPN, i was just curious how he could work for Foxsports during the regular season, then switch over to ESPN in the postseason. I figured these guys get paid year-round, not just during the regular season. So it confused me that he could work for rival networks.
By JimD
October 30, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this
Kevin
Go back to bed. It’s too early for you, you aren’t making sense.
By BamaBrave
October 30, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this
Is it April yet?
By Hotstove
October 30, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this
What’s the word on how the Braves fill out the radio booth?
By Billy
October 30, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this
“Prospect Huggers” is not a new philosophy to some organizations. With the ever rising free agent price tag, the large bonuses paid out to draft picks, and skyrocketing salaries expect more and more clubs to become “Prospect Huggers”.
The term “Prospect Hugger” is actually a term of endearment in today’s baseball world….a compliment to the FO for not being reckless with current inventory and mortgaging the future by sending off elite players to other organizations.
For those that scoff at the “Prospect Huggers” a trip back to 2002, when the Expos sent Sizemore, Brandon Phillips, Cliff Lee and Lee Stevens to Cleveland in exchange for Bartolo Colon and Tim Drew. That trade should adjust some thinking as Colon spent one year with Montreal and had an unbelievable year, but he was shipped to the White Sox immediately after the season.
Every Star player was once a prospect, some highly regarded and some not so highly regarded. Same goes for the busts. Organizations have learned it is important to reload from within.
I am a proud “Prospect Hugger” On the flip side, I still love the McGriff trade.
By Lew
October 30, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
Fansince66-You might be right. If the Braves pick up Khalil Green and his $6.5 million salary along with Peavy, there is no way they can afford a RH power hitter for LF and still get all the pitching they need.
If Yunel is traded and we want to pick up a good outfielder (much less Ordonez as many clamor for), no way do we spend that much at short. There will be other avenues explored. Of that I am certain.
Kelly in left doesn’t bother me, but I for one, do not care to listen to the resulting firestorm on the blog if that eventuality comes to pass. It’s time to realize that $40 million just doesn’t buy what it used to.
By Efrim
October 30, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this
Supes
BTW…when Cole Hamels becomes a free agent he’s as good as gone. Angels or Dodgers will be standing waiting with open checkbooks and he is a west coast guy…so enjoy it while it lasts with Hamels as the Phillie’s ace.
I agree. I have heard the same whispers. He has no desire to pitch anywhere else other than the West Coast.
Good…..because the kid is a flat out ace.
By Lew
October 30, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this
Billy-Got to agree with you. I’ve been accused of being a Prospect Hugger myself. Like you I don’t mind a good trade (let’s exclude the Teixeira trade here), but you can’t dump all of your good prospects.
For the entire three plus years I’ve been on this blog, all I’ve heard is how the Braves NEVER develop good pitching and how we need strikeout pitchers, not soft tossers. I’ve heard this line to the point of illness. Now we have what appears to be a stud prospect with Tommy Hanson-a pitcher who strikes out way more than one per inning and apparently has lights out stuff and the first reaction is to trade him for someone else because we don’t know how he will do in the future.
Makes no sense whatsoever to me. But I’m only Joe the Artist. What do I know (that’s rhetorical)?
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 30, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this
N Nine McFann i guess Victorino gets the last laugh this year.
Yeah, well, maybe he did. Congrats to the Fillies…to the doggone Fillies.
I bet Hamels starts Opening Day…Then every time he gets out of an inning we here, “And the World Series MVP gets out of a jam to hold the Braves down.”
Doggone it.
OK, so it was their turn this year. We cann move on…It’ll be our turn again soon enough.
By Anti-Shanks
October 30, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
The term “Prospect Hugger” is actually a term of endearment in today’s baseball world
nope it’s not.it’s a term of derision for those pie-in-the-sky foolish optimists who believe that all their teams prospects are going to develop into much better players much more often than any other team’s prospects. Fools in other words.
By Wayne the Salesman
October 30, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
Lew It’s time to realize that $40 million just doesn’t buy what it used to.
I love it!
Random Yes, I saw that it was Bill F. James’s statement. Doesn’t matter who said it, to me it is still not valid.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 30, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
Uga-Brave you think the phillies are happy that it was bourn who the astros wanted instead of victorino?
Dangit, Astros! Thanks a lump! Dum kopfs…
BA didn’t hurt the quality of the MIB/Braves/Crusading Everyman/McFann/Birds/Turtles/BBQ/vorq blog.
I agree. While the year stunk, the Blogs were very good. My favorites were the ones from the All-Star Break. Loved the insight!
One thing I love about the Blog is getting the quotes from players that you can’t find anywhere else (sorry if that sounds corny).
Season was really bad, but at least we still had each other!
; )
By Dan
October 30, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
Dave
You said there is a reasonable chance the braves acquire Peavy w/out giving up hanson or heyward. Obviously, this means that we lose KJ or Yunnel.
Tyler Flowers is hitting well in Arizona, hopefully this will boost his stock as a prospect. I see him as a primo trade chip. I also think the Braves can afford to part with Gorkys if they believe Jordan Schafer can play centerfield.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 30, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
Wait—when does Cole Hamels become a free agent??
Oh boy! The West Cost cann have him! Then we don’t hafta see him as much!
By DAP
October 30, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
does anyone have opinions on the world series being played in a neutral site, like the super bowl? mike and mike were talking about it this morning.
i think its a bad idea, but i wanted to comment on one thing they used as an argument. they said that baseball was not meant to be played in those conditions…now im not sure what they meant by that. if they meant the rain, then yeah, they are right. but it rains all year around, everywhere.
were they talking about cold? baseball can be played in cold weather. its a little harder, but 40 degrees is not to cold to play a baseball game.
i hate the idea of a neutral site for the world series. cold weather is not a reason not to play. precipitation is, but you cant really avoid that except with domes or retractable roofs.
By Brian Jordan's contract
October 30, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
this team will never sign a big money free agent, they will just continue to trade every minor league player to fill needs because they can’t stomach paying the big bucks.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 30, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
Holy—Well, the Braves page on the AJC has a new photo, and it ain’t the Braves.
Hope it’s not there for long…
OK. Yeah, I freely admit it: I am a sore loser!!
By G'dbye Jake
October 30, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this
Marlins trading Jacobs to KC
MIAMI — With the World Series now completed, the hot stove season is set to get under way.
Already, there is some activity.
According to a league source, the Marlins are close to trading first baseman Mike Jacobs to the Royals for right-handed reliever Leo Nunez.
The source said on Wednesday night that players have been agreed upon, and the deal could be consummated in the next few days.
Jacobs, who turns 28 on Thursday, had career highs of 32 home runs and 93 RBIs for Florida this season. The left-handed-hitting first baseman, who batted .247 in 141 games, spent three years with the Marlins. He is eligible for arbitration for the first time this season, and his salary is expected to rise to roughly $3.5 million in 2009.
The Royals and Marlins have been in ongoing discussions for a while.
The Marlins are looking for bullpen help, and Nunez is a 25-year-old from the Dominican Republic who appeared in 45 games during the ‘08 season. Nunez posted a 4-1 record with a 2.98 ERA while logging 48 1/3 innings.
Nunez has a chance to compete for a late-inning setup role, and perhaps down the line he could be a closer candidate.
By A's & B's
October 30, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
Type A/B Free Agents By Tim Dierkes [October 29, 2008 at 1:54pm CST]
Using Eddie Bajek’s estimates on Detroit Tigers Thoughts, here’s a list of the possible Type A and Type B free agents this winter.
Type A
Bobby Abreu (Yankees) Milton Bradley (Rangers) Doug Brocail (Astros) A.J. Burnett (Blue Jays) Pat Burrell (Phillies) Orlando Cabrera (White Sox) Juan Cruz (Diamondbacks) Ryan Dempster (Cubs) Adam Dunn (Diamondbacks) Brian Fuentes (Rockies) Brian Giles (Padres) Orlando Hudson (Diamondbacks) Raul Ibanez (Mariners) Jason Isringhausen (Cardinals) Derek Lowe (Dodgers) Damaso Marte (Yankees) Jamie Moyer (Phillies) Mike Mussina (Yankees) Darren Oliver (Angels) Oliver Perez (Mets) Andy Pettitte (Yankees) Manny Ramirez (Dodgers) Edgar Renteria (Tigers) Francisco Rodriguez (Angels) Ivan Rodriguez (Yankees) C.C. Sabathia (Brewers) Ben Sheets (Brewers) Russ Springer (Cardinals) Mark Teixeira (Angels) Jason Varitek (Red Sox) Kerry Wood (Cubs)
That’s 31 Type As, though Giles and Marte may have their options picked up and Mussina may retire.
Type B
Jeremy Affeldt (Reds) Moises Alou (Mets) Garret Anderson (Angels) Joe Beimel (Dodgers) Casey Blake (Dodgers) Paul Byrd (Red Sox) Mike Cameron (Brewers) Carlos Delgado (Mets) Alan Embree (Athletics) Eric Gagne (Brewers) Jon Garland (Angels) Luis Gonzalez (Marlins) Ken Griffey Jr. (White Sox) Mark Grudzielanek (Royals) Trevor Hoffman (Padres) Bob Howry (Cubs) Jeff Kent (Dodgers) Braden Looper (Cardinals) Mark Loretta (Astros) Brandon Lyon (Diamondbacks) Greg Maddux (Dodgers) Trever Miller (Rays) Miguel Olivo (Royals) Brad Penny (Dodgers) Dennys Reyes (Twins) Brian Shouse (Brewers) John Smoltz (Braves) Frank Thomas (Athletics) Salomon Torres (Brewers) Juan Uribe (White Sox) Tim Wakefield (Red Sox) David Weathers (Reds) Randy Wolf (Astros) Jamey Wright (Rangers) Gregg Zaun (Blue Jays)
That’s 35 Type Bs, though Cameron, Delgado, Embree, Miller, Olivo, Penny, Torres, and Wakefield could have their options picked up and Alou, Griffey, Kent, and Maddux could retire.
Talking to a few people in the game, it seems that the Type A/B free agent quota depends on the number of Type A/Bs who file. If 62 or fewer such players file (which is possible) then each team will have a quota of three Type A or B signings. Regardless of that, teams are allowed to sign as many Type A/Bs as they lose. As far as I can tell, the quota has never been an issue in the past.
By keylargo
October 30, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
Lew It’s time to realize that $40 million just doesn’t buy what it used to.
And that makes what the Marlins did almost unbelievable. I still can’t comprehend that they got a team together for $23 mm that stayed in the NL East race for the entire year. And not to mention kicked the Mets out of the race to end their year.
By the way the Marlins have almost made a deal with the Royals for Mike Jacobs (32 HR). They are getting Leo Nunez from the Royals in return.
By DAP
October 30, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
that jacobs-nunez trade looks like a pretty good one.
by the way, a big WOW for brad lidge. gotta be comeback player of the NL. a perfect year, nicely finished up with a save in the clinching game 5 of the world series. good for him.
can you believe the phils got him for bourne? unbelieveable. turns out to be maybe the most undderated trade of the offseason.
By Daybed Wagmoe
October 30, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
cameron — responding to your 12:43am post. You want to trade for Mike Jacobs…to play him off the bench? This is a guy who just hit 32 home runs this year, and you’d want him as a backup?
I’ll be glad that he’ll be leaving the NL East. I also just learned that the Royals have a 1B prospect named Kila Kaaihue — he’s gotta be the brother of the Braves’ 1B prospect Kala Kaaihue, right? I mean, no way they’re not related…right?
By kirknga
October 30, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
If Hanson is such a can’t miss-must keep player then it should be very clear that he will be part of the rotation next season. No more minor leagues I would think. No more “seasoning” needed.
If he doesn’t project to the rotation this season(one in which the Braves are actually seeking starting pitching) then he’s tradeable.
There will be times when teams trade pROSPECTS they will later come to regret trading, that’s part of baseball. If the Braves are serious about contending next year then they cannot be timid or haunted by the Ghost of All Previous Bad Trades.
By Eware
October 30, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this
You know, I’m sick of hearing about how the Braves “can’t stomach” paying the big bills. I respect the fact that they won’t pay the big bills and would rather build the club from within and through trades.
I’m reading Scherholtz’s book right now (fabulous read by the way) and he has mentioned numerous times that the Braves operate in the red. Not as much since the payroll was dropped to $80M. But, now that its been raised again, I’m sure we’re back in the double-digit $MM loses.
Anyways, my point is that we must remember that is is a business. With no money, no team. So, I like that the Braves operate the best they can. With a $100M payroll, Liberty Media is still being very generous. Hopefully, other teams will begin to operate this way, and we can get free agency salaries back under control.
Believe me, I think it sucks that the Steinbrenners of the world have created an environment where baseball operations have to lose money to field good teams. As a fan, I would love to have an owner that throws money into the team. But, I’m a realist. Not a lot of people in this world have that kind of money.
Carry on, Frank Wren.
By Efrim
October 30, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this
kirknga
Your 10:24 AM is a terrible way of looking at things. I hope our management doesn’t think that way. I am pretty sure they don’t.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 30, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
Jason V is a free agent? Wonder how much he wants…I’ve always liked him. Don’t know completely why…He seems like a good dude, though.
Anyway, if only the term “Free Agent” meant just that—Free Agent…then we’d have no financial problems, right?
; )
By Cecil34
October 30, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
I have to laugh when I read all the ruminations about this world series being the least viewed, least interesting, etc.
Number one, Selig is “and” idiot. It is a shame baseball has had to settle for an individial who has no concept of leadership these many years.
But enough about him. He won’t live forever.
TV is the tail wagging the dog. Pro sports is in the “entertainment” business, not the sports business.
When they decided to expand the playoffs, they should have knocked 10 or 12 games off the regular season, so that the world series would be over with by the 15th of October, thus hopefully avoiding bad/cold weather in the northern cities.
Night games ain’t working. Either start times are too late, or finishing too late.
I love the Braves and baseball, but truthfully, if the Braves are not involved, I move on to college football and maybe pro. And Nascar. I could care less who wins the world series if the Braves aren’t in it.
When I was a kid, I could not wait to get home from school to watch the playoffs and world series. They played in the daytime, and it seemed so much more special when they did that. Remember we only had three channels in Atlanta to choose from anyway. Who wouldn’t watch?
But this was before MLB sold their soul to the TV devil.
I better stop now.
By Anti-Shanks
October 30, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
Your 10:24 AM is a terrible way of looking at things. I hope our management doesn’t think that way. I am pretty sure they don’tEfrim
Give all them prospects a big hug, guy. They all gonna be stars.no doubt
By kirknga
October 30, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
Ok Efrim why is what I said so “terrible”?
By Shaun
October 30, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
DAP, yes, and people mocked me when I said Lidge would be just fine in Philadelphia.
Give the Phillies front office a lot of credit for that move.
Lidge still had an impressive K rate, and impressive walk rate and an impressive homer rate his last couple of years with the Astros. But so many got sucked into emphasizing his ERA, saves and blown saves that they overlooked the fact that the guy could still pitch. That and the fact that he gave up some crucial homers, everyone looked at his failures but ignored his abilities and his overall performance.
By DAP
October 30, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this
so, no thoughts from the blog about the world series at a neutral site? none at all? i thought someone would opine on that one. oh well.
By richbrave
October 30, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
SILLY PUTTY. INTRODUCING THE 2009 BRAVES:
PEAVY = $$$$, KJ, BLANCO, FLOWERS, ROHRBAUGH, MEDLIN.
BURNETT = $$$$ and ????. Don’t know his contract status other than FA.
HAMPTON = $$$$.
RENTERIA = $$$$. Let PRADO and RENTERIA compete for the #2 batting position and PT. Play at 3rd(PRADO) when necessary. Play at 2B(PRADO or RENTERIA) otherwise.
RENTAL for CF = $$$$ and ????. A two year contract, that’s all.
BARRETT or ESTRADA = $$$$.
DIAZ and ANDERSON compete for LF. Keep one after ST.
LINEUP:
ESCOBAR PRADO or RENTERIA JONES McCANN or CF CF or McCANN KOTCHMAN DIAZ or ANDERSON FRANCOUER PITCHER
BENCH:
PRADO or RENTERIA, BARRETT or ESTRADA, INFANTE, SCHAFER.
STARTERS:
PEAVY, BURNETT, JUIRJENS, HAMPTON, MORTON.
LONG-MIDDLE RELIEF:
BENNETT, CAMPILLO.
SET-UP:
OHMAN = $$$$ and a 2 pick. REYES, BOYER.
CLOSER:
GONZALEZ. SORIANO. SMOLTZ.
Pick, pick, pick, pick. Time to go vote - early.
By Shaun
October 30, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
kirknga, I don’t know about that. I mean Heyward doesn’t project as a major leaguer as soon as next season and the Braves need a corner outfielder. Does that mean he should be tradeable?
By Billy
October 30, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
By Anti-Shanks
nope it’s not.it’s a term of derision for those pie-in-the-sky foolish optimists who believe that all their teams prospects are going to develop into much better players much more often than any other team’s prospects. Fools in other words.
Actually you may speak for the 4 or 5 of your group that believes that way. You are entitled to think that way, even if it is juvenile. It is also juvenile to think anything more than a handful of fans believe “all” their prospects are going to develop into stars.
Reasonable adults understand not all prospects will make it, but you root for them and are encouraged until they don’t succeed. Your negativity is misplaced. It sounds like you anger is directed towards an individual and not a belief?
What I think you will find is it is probably very young people who believe what you are saying and if you spoke to the majority of fans over 25 you would find a different mindset. That is not to say that fans under 25 are not capable or reasonable thinking.
Anti-Shanks there is never a reason to not have hope or not be encouraged to be a fan of your favorite teams minor league players. There are a couple of fans that think as you do, but there are millions of fans that are “Prospect Huggers”.
By Braveheart
October 30, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
If Hanson is such a can’t miss-must keep player then it should be very clear that he will be part of the rotation next season. No more minor leagues I would think. No more “seasoning” needed. If he doesn’t project to the rotation this season(one in which the Braves are actually seeking starting pitching) then he’s tradeable.
Why would he have to be in the rotation next season? I don’t get the logic on that one.
By Shaun
October 30, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
Anti-Shanks, the question is who is likely to provide more for the dollar over the length of Peavy’s contract—Peavy or all those young players the Braves would give up for Peavy?
There is not an obvious, cut-and-dry answer to that question. But since the Braves aren’t likely to contend next soon by trading for Peavy alone, and it will be very difficult to trade for Peavy and also drastically improve themselves in other areas, they should be careful giving up a lot of young talent.
In a few years there is a good chance (but not a sure thing) the Braves will be better off with all the young players and the money they did not spend to pay Peavy than they would with Peavy, his contract and none of those young players.
…I think that’s what Efrim is saying.
By Billy
October 30, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
Anti Shanks, so tell us, how long has it been since Bill Shanks banned you from his site? How many times have you been banned? Most, if not all negative comments about Bill Shanks come from posters that have been banished when he decided to clean out the undesirable posters and make them post on boards other than his. I see your time could be short here too.
By nolie
October 30, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
I see that Tazawa was not drafted by a Japanese club, so he should be free to sign with an American club if I understand it right
By David O'Brien
October 30, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
Today’s shocking headline: John Daily found drunk outside Hooters
I find that hard to believe.
By Lew
October 30, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
Kirkinga-So if he isn’t ready until early 2010 we should get rid of him? For the sake of a year or less, he’s more valuable as a trade piece? Dude, that is the most shortsighted point of view I’ve heard in months and is absurd on the face of it. Either he is a #1 or 2 pitcher in the making or he isn’t. Either we will need a pitcher of his talent or we won’t. A year won’t change that one way or another. The fact that others (notably the Padres) want him, should provide more of a validation.
Besides, he IS projected for the rotation at some time in 09, if not out of Spring Training. If the rotation will be improved with Peavy in it, it will be improved even more (in particularly more long term) with Peavy AND Hanson in it.
Key Largo-And yet the Marlins have NOT won, have they? I’m sorry, but the fact that the Marlins won a couple years ago with all kids is the exception-not the rule. I don’t recall it happening anywhere else -and don’t quote the Rays to me either-they should have won several years ago with all the talent they have stockpiled. Dumping all your veteran players and relying on the Youth Movement to catch lightning in a bottle is a p!$$ poor method of General Managing. It has not shown results very often and is a philosophy fit only for those teams who will never spend the money required-for whatever reason. Yes, you can find examples of teams with miniscule payrolls showing winning ways, but it is not a common occurrence.
By kirknga
October 30, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
Shaun
Look, I’m just questioning the conventional wisdom is all. Part of the CW is that Hanson is a can’t miss guy. Well ok, I’ll accept that but I question if he should be untouchable if he can’t make the rotation at a time where there are multiple openings.
Remember we’re suppose to be contending next season, not rebuilding for 2011 or so.
I also question bringing up some other team’s past bad trade as if that should enter into the thinking of our GM now.
I question why former prospect turn SS for the next decade or so is tradeable(despite a lack of depth at that position), but a prospect we don’t know for certain can crack the rotation isn’t.
Some are ok with trading Morton, who was last offseason’s “tall ,can’t miss,strikeout pitcher… wow’d em at the Arizona League games…” guy, but Hason isn’t.
I just don’t get being protective of players while they are prospects, but not after they make the transition to the major leagues and demonstrate they can play at a high level?
It’s prospect-love and player-hating.
By WordWizardHobo
October 30, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
Poor John Daly. If anyone wants a good drink recipe, get the Firefly Vodka (sweet tea flavored) and mix it with a mikes hard lemonade (do a half n half mix).
We call them John Dalys….the alcoholic Arnold Palmer.
By Brian
October 30, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
richbrave- I guess Burnett is high on your list but reading a little yesterday, Burnett didn’t even mention the Braves as a choice of teams he’d prefer. The Cardinals were #1 with the Orioles,Yankees, and Red Sox as some of the others. I know if the Braves offered him massive $s he’d consider them, but I wouldn’t hold my breath! This might not mean a whole lot but you almost have to think that way when it comes to players and agents.
As far as some of the “don’t give the farm for Peavy” folks, I agree to a point. But somebody(Escobar) would almost have to be in the deal. And while it makes some of you old timers feel like you’ll have nothing to complain about because Peavy could actually make us better- TOUGH S**!!! I could be wrong but that’s the impression some of you give off.
By kirknga
October 30, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
Because Braveheart he’s progressed through the minor leagues and the Braves need pitching and because the Braves have some depth at that position in their system.
If the idea is to start contending now, I believe the guys who have shown they can play well at this level(Escobar, Morton, Francouer, McCann, JJ) are a priority over the guys that have not broken through yet.
I don’t want to sell the farm, but what good is protecting the prospect but then trading him away once he shows he can play?
By David O'Brien
October 30, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
220z: Boog works for ESPN year-round, those he’s cutting back on some of his assignments this year because of the non-stop workload. Before this year you were likely to hear him any given night doing a basketball game on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, etc, from any part of the country. He’s been an ESPN employee for years. Few of those folks work for just one network these days….
does anyone have opinions on the world series being played in a neutral site, like the super bowl?DAP
Yeah, I think it’s a ridiculous idea. The Super Bowl crowd is the lamest, least fired up crowd you’ll find at a football game all season, about 80 percent CEO, sales people and other corporate folks who work for companies that can afford the tix, with the rest of the mix a group of fans from the Super Bowl city and fans from the cities of the participating teams. It has no resemblance whatsoever to a regular NFL crowd, which is why you can sense that just watching on TV, the volume of the crowd noise, etc.
OK, so imagine that type of crowd for an entire best-of-seven World Series? Or do you believe that thousands upon thousands of “real” fans from the participating teams’ cities are going to just take off a week or more from work, rent hotel rooms for a week or more (and get gouged mercilessly) at hotels that know those fans have no choice but to pay at the last minute. Those folks just gonna take two weeks’ vacation during the World Series and hope their team makes it, then buy the airline tix with less than a week’s notice at huge prices, the way we media members have to do?
No, no, no. Part of baseball is the crowd. It’s the nature of the game. A disinterested, fat-cat Super Bowl-type crowd would be horrible at a best-of-seven series. Imagine their boredom and all the emtpy seats when one team jumped out to a big early lead in a game? Just so many reasons why it won’t work. Absolutely not. No way. Won’t even be seriously considered. Logistical nightmare, and a nightmare in every other way, too….
Daybed: yes, those two are brothers.
By Anti-Shanks
October 30, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
Anti-Shanks there is never a reason to not have hope or not be encouraged to be a fan of your favorite teams minor league players. There are a couple of fans that think as you do, but there are millions of fans that are “Prospect Huggers”Billy
There are also 360 pitchers in the ML plus at least twice that many who came up at the same time but failed to stay or make it at all. There are maybe 10-15 pitchers at the level of Peavy. Those are long odds and anybody who doesn’t realize what a small percent of prospects ever become meaningful players is just plain foolish, and there are way more people who realize that than you are claiming. It is not about not hoping your prospects succeed, it is about not being foolish enough to assume that they will at a higher rate than normal. I also completely disagree with your age premise. Most young fans and posters are in love with their prospects and they frequently do believe that their group is the bestest ever, it takes some experience to understand just how tough it is to succeed for these guys. And there is no anger here at all about it, it’s just a fact of baseball life. Each prospect needs to be analyzed with strict impartiality to have even a moderate chance to determine who might succeed. The term prospect-hugger is meant for those who allow themselves to be affected by their hopes rather than their logic.
By Dadgum
October 30, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
KirknGA is pretty much correct. If the Braves keep Hanson, and they indicate they will, then he will be in the Braves’ starting rotation next year. I really see the Braves trading for Peavy and signing a big name free agent pitcher and putting Hanson behind Jurrjens in the rotation say 4th. Of course I originally didn’t see the Braves securing Peavy without losing either Jurrjens or Hanson. Regardless of what Wren has stated to date I am going to leave about a 5% chance that some winds of change or trade scenario will arrive that include one of them in a trade. Hot stove time brings about crazy things. Again, wouldn’t want to see either go, not at all.
Tampa made too many bad decisions last night in a close game. I would never have brought the infield in unless it was the winning or tieing run on third in the last inning less than two outs. You are giving up a hit more often than you are getting the out at home. They score and you have no out. That insane automatic out from Werth fell just behind 2nd base on the drawn-in infield.
As I stated toward the end of the last blog, I feel it is unfair to play 3 games in a row in any one city. Basically the team that should have the home field advantage really doesn’t have that advantage unless they get to game 7 where conversely the team without that advantage gets 3 of the first 5 games on their field. Assuming a likely split in the first two games they can win it without ever having to go back to the field of the team that should have the advantage. Not complaining since it played out that way this year. Not even a Tampa fan or close to it. They should go back to the 2-2-1-1-1 configuration for the good of the game.
Rock on….It is amazing how many times Tim McCarver is right with his analysis prior to the outcome of the play. The dude knows his baseball for sure. Now Buck is a good talking head but not very insightful.
By DAP
October 30, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this
DOB i totally agree. a neutral site would be totaly disinfrachising to the fans.
ive heard proponants of the idea talk about how it works for the NFL, but for some reason nobody pipes up and says what a different type of game that baseball is, or the fact that baseball is a SERIES and not ONE GAME.
very dumb idea, on many levels.
MLB could make give the WS alot of hoopla, like the superbowl gets, but not in a neutral site.
By kirknga
October 30, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
Lew
No it’s not shortsighted, it’s not even my argument. Remember we have depth of pitching prospects in our system so we should be ok in seasons to come.
If we did not have this depth and he was our one and only prized pitching prospect in the system, then my thinking would be different.
And isn’t trading away the guy who you can pencil in at SS for the next decade when there isn’t depth at that position in the system, and when there is no guarantee that the guy you are getting in return(who costs much much more) will remain a Brave, well isn’t that shortsighted?
Remember the idea is to start contending next season, that means in the short term.
By BravesFanInRockies
October 30, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
22oz,
I don’t think many sports networks have exclusive deals anymore. Boog did some baseball games for ESPN Radio if I’m not mistaken during the regular season and announced some playoff games, too.
He’ll announce college hoops for ESPN this fall. Regional sports networks in particular allow announcers to move back and forth.
I know CBS refuses to let Dick Vitale do NCAA postseason games, even though other announcers who work for ESPN during the regular season handle March Madness. But Billy Packer announced ACC regular season games on the regional network and worked for CBS.
And Cris Collinsworth must work for every network that has NFL football, or so it seems.
By anti-shanks
October 30, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
Anti Shanks, so tell us, how long has it been since Bill Shanks banned you from his site? How many times have you been banned? Billy
Oh Billy, what a load of crap that is. I have never been banned from his site. What has that got to do with the fact that emotionalism is anathema to logical analysis?
I’ve never felt the need to go to his site because he used to spend so many hours on other sites I participated in spreading his own brand of sunshine, claiming that prospect after prospect over the years was going to be a sure fire hero.
He was wrong about 90% of the time at least. It was in fact ludicrous he was so often wrong. Every season he would detail just how great the top 20 prospects were and how so many of them would become meaningful players. Really kind of pathetic to see the players he often touted and understanding correctly in advance just how wrong he would again be.
I have nothing personal against the man, in fact he seems like a nice guy who really loves the Braves, but if I want a cheerleader I’d like some pom-poms and short skirts along with it, too. And no way would I want them evaluating talent. You neither my friend if the best logic you can use is to assume I’ve been throw off his site.
By Efrim
October 30, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
Shaun
In a few years there is a good chance (but not a sure thing) the Braves will be better off with all the young players and the money they did not spend to pay Peavy than they would with Peavy, his contract and none of those young players.
Yes, that is what I am saying. Thank you.
kirknga
Patience dude. Patience. You know, there is a way the Braves can contend without gutting the farm system in a trade for Jake Peavy. Not getting him isn’t the end of all things. I think a lot of people have a tough time realizing that.
By Dadgum
October 30, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
Sometimes talking heads in sports run out of legitimate items to discuss and venture where they shouldn’t go. Neutral sites for a world series? Are they serious? Please, that will never happen, ever. Far too many reasons why it wouldn’t work to name here. If I had to name one it would be too many neutral fans at a neutral site and the fact the city would reap 1-2 weeks worth of revenue they don’t deserve. Oh that’s actually two reasons. Ya’ll think about it.
Rock on……baseball purist. Now if they can only convince the players association to drop the DH in the AL. Oh yeah, and make all series best of 7
By TommyP
October 30, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
Finally got to watch a little of the Series last night.
Interesting that Rollins brought the front page to Manuel. Very cool to see since Manuel benched him earlier in the year for lack of hustle.
Selig is pretty universally hated, isn’t he?
Maybe/hopefully the guy is married but Boog needs to do something about his appearance. When I mentioned to the folks I was watching the game with that Boog was a Braves announcer, they all were pretty much cracking up over his “look” shall we say.
VERY cool coverage of each individual Phillie player reacting to the last out last night. I thoroughly enjoyed that.
And the Peavy saga drags along…
And the LF saga has yet to begin….
By Lew
October 30, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
Kirkinga-Because we have depth at pitcher in the minors we should trade the one with what appears to be the most potential-not only as a ML starter, but also the one deemed closest to making the team? Dude, whether or not it is your argument, it is exceedingly shortsighted. The fact you can’t see that proves the point.
By Efrim
October 30, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
Just read an article on MLB.com from Bowman. In it he says this:
In order to get somebody like Peavy or Ordonez, Wren is going to have to trade some of his best prospects. But he hasn’t changed his stance regarding his small group of elite prospects, which likely includes Jason Heyward, Tommy Hanson, Freddie Freeman, Gorkys Hernandez and Julio Teheran.
Is Gorkys Hernandez ahead of Schafer in terms of potential? Not sure I have ever heard that. But maybe the Braves saw something in him this season that would lead them to believe that.
By David O'Brien
October 30, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
OK, these have to be considered the best opening paragraphs for a story in the AJC in recent memory. From a story by the always-entertaining John Kessler in today’s Food & Drink section:
Now that eventings are chilly and the food dollar needs stretching, it is time to start thinking about your butt.
If it is anything like mine, it’s both fatty and bony, weighs about 4 pounds, costs only $7 or $8 at the local supermarket and feeds a family for two night running.
The Boston butt is, without any question, one of the most economical and easy to cook cuts of meat you can find.
And that is, without any question, funny.
I read it three times to make sure I read it correctly.
Very clever. (And I don’t even know John, so it’s not as if I’m giving props to a buddy.)
By Lew
October 30, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
Well Denizens-Just got my advance copy of the new Queen/Paul Rodgers CD-The Cosmos Rocks.
Time for a quick trip to the potato patch and then to a good listening thereof. I’ll be back later with a review. For sure Freddie Mercury is unreplaceable, but Paul Rodgers is a good vocalist and Brian May and Roger Taylor are at the top of their game, so it should be some great Rock And Roll. Later.
By keylargo
October 30, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
Today’s shocking headline: John Daily found drunk outside Hooters
I find that hard to believe. DOB
DOB, Daily (and millions before him) is who the statement doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results was meant for.
By Billy
October 30, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
I am going out on a limb and say that all publications that rank prospects do so with glowing reports on those players. That is their job. The Sporting News, Baseball America, USA Today, and I could go on, but those writers get paid to be cheerleaders for their predictions.
You need to separate fans from people who get paid to cheer lead and if it makes you feel better Bill Shanks was heard in his recent 4 part audio interview with Frank Wren two days ago state on his radio show that he was the minor league cheerleader for Braves prospects.
So that is a title he proudly boasts and advertises. He admits it. Is he a homer? You Betcha he is. Does he have his favorites? You Betcha he does. He admits it openly on radio. I, for one, appreciate his radio show and the bits of information he passes along to us fans.
I appreciate all the hard work DOB, Mark Bowman, Bill Shanks and others do for us fans with their tireless and dedicated work in bringing us information. It is our responsibility to dissect it and form our own opinions based on that information.
Putting Bill Shanks or anyone down does not raise you above him or them. It is an unsavory trait.
By Lew
October 30, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
Unreplaceable? I meant irreplaceable.
By kirknga
October 30, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
Lew, I gave you my rationale. You didn’t even bother to deal with it. Why?
That you only deal with a part of my argument and then strip that part of all of it’s context is unfortunate. You obviously have a personal stake in Hanson that keeps you from entertaining any thought he might have to be traded.I’m sorry that this obviously hurts your feelings and you feel the need to lash out.
I say again, I don’t want to trade the guy. But to get Peavy I would if there was no other way and I gave reasons why.
By anti-shanks
October 30, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
Putting Bill Shanks or anyone down does not raise you above him or them. It is an unsavory trait.Billy
oh ye olde hypocrite. no more unsavory than automatically assuming that I was thrown off his site. Tsk Tsk. And I didn’t even put Bill down until you started spewing the thrown off site venom. I simply used his name since he is one of the biggest and best known prospect-huggers in all of baseball land. Practice what you preach. little dude.
By N Nine
October 30, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
top stories:
Royals Acquire Jacobs For Nunez—its done deal
John Daley still trying to sober up….
By Lew
October 30, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
kirkinga-Dude, you’re the one lashing out, not me. All I said was that the position of dealing Hanson now was shortsighted. I have a personal stake in Hanson remaining a Brave? Yeah, I get a huge bonus if he stays with Atlanta. What utter horse manure.
As for not paying attention to your argument- I did-I just don’t agree with it and despite whether you claim the theory as your own, you’ve at least twice made comments about Hanson, calling into question his value to the Braves. You’ve even made comments about his value being contingent on whether or not he was ready NOW. The fact I think that is wrong and shortsighted makes me walk away with hurt feelings and the inability to see another point of view? More Equine excrement, Dude. Surely you can come up with something of more substance than that.
Dude, get over yourself. I’m not the only one who has disagreed with your posts. Quite honestly, I have yet to see anyone who has agreed with you at all. Are we all walking away with our feelings hurt? Are we all wrong because we disagree with you?
As for the acquisition of Peavy-I have gone on record extensively on THAT subject. I’m wary of his injury potential and as a result, would not want to give up, a prospect of Hanson’s caliber. Obviously, from his own comments, Frank Wren feels he can get the trade done without giving up on Hanson. You don’t. Doesn’t make you right, does it?
Sorry you don’t agree, but that’s not my problem, is it? Since when is voicing MY opinion lashing out? It’s disagreement and nothing else. You’re taking it personally, not me. Maybe if I had called you And Idiot-but I didn’t, did I?
By Billy
October 30, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
anti-shanks
Nice name, lol, but you ain’t putting him down? What was your name on his site?
I have to get back to baseball talk. This is unhealthy debating with a youngster.
By Shaun
October 30, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
Remember we’re suppose to be contending next season, not rebuilding for 2011 or so.
kirknga, yes, I think Wren has to do his best to contend next season. But he also has to evaluate the likely value of the players he may trade for Peavy to determine if the Braves have a better chance for a big season in the near future with those players or if trading for Peavy now gives him a better chance for a big season.
It’s not cut-and-dry, as I said, and a lot depends on the young players, obviously. But if the Braves trade a slew of really talented young players, they may actually be worse off in the near future than they would be by just adding Peavy.
By Dadgum
October 30, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
Just to address about every other post. If the Braves get Peavy then the Braves will lose at least 1-2 players we really don’t want to see go in addition to lower level pitching prospects. We will lose 1 among the following is my guess: Escobar, Prado, Johnson, & Lillibridge. This is again in addition to the aforementioned pitching. Also this is assuming that a 3rd team is not involved in the trade.
By kirknga
October 30, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
Lew Now I’m an idiot too huh? Nah, you aren’t taking this personal at all are you?
Quite honestly, I have yet to see anyone who has agreed with you at all.
I said, I’m questioning the conventional wisdom so is it shocking many don’t agree.
You’ve even made comments about his value being contingent on whether or not he was ready NOW.
False, false, false. The word value doesn’t appear in my comments for a reason.
Like I said, sorry I hurt your feelings. If saying I’m sorry is lashing out in your opinion then that is very unfortunate. What I will not do is call you names, never done that on the blog,never will.
Thank you for at least expanding your comments beyond the whole “it’s shortsighted” insult thing. I appreciate the effort.
And still, no explanation of clinging to players as prospects, but not after they do well in the bigs? Still nothing on if the idea is to contend now, why trade a guy who plays a position where there is a lack of depth, but not so the guy where there is depth?
[Sigh]
By mbatl
October 30, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
Moving the WS to a neutral site would be the ultimate acknowledgment of television’s complete ownership of baseball. Might as well build a domed studio in Bristol CT, and just play it there.
Of course, as DOB pointed out, no actual fans could take 7-10 days off and travel to see the games (especially on short notice… at least on a college football bowl trip, you have about a month to plan).
So maybe hire some locals to sit in the stands. You could have producers holding up “applause” or “wave hankies” signs, so the uninterested crowd would respond correctly.
Really, imagine if this series had been played in, say, Los Angeles (warm weather, little chance of rain). I doubt they could’ve put 25 thousand fans in Dodger stadium 5 times, with Philly and Tampa Bay playing.
I went to 5 WS games from ‘91 to ‘96, and they were the best baseball experiences of my life (except my walkoff homer against the Grove Park Pelicans as a 12-year-old, of course).
Take away the possibility (however remote it may be) of doing that again, and I’d be pretty much ready to give up baseball entirely.
By Efrim
October 30, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
Dadgum
Don’t forget the 63 million dollars we’ll have to pay him…..along with all the young players/prospects.
Apparently, they want 5 players…..
5.
By Lee in S GA
October 30, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
Tigers decline Renteria’s option. No surprise here.
By Kentavo
October 30, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
As for the Butt; don’t overlook Pork Tenderloin, which you can get 2fer deals on at I put a tenderloin in the crockpot yesterday morning with a heaping of Carolina Treat mustard-based barbecue sauce and a layer of sour kraut, when I got home last night from my softball game, much to my surprise, I had pulled pork - awesome!!!
As for hardball: let the off-season games begin in earnest!!
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 30, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
mbatl—
Your 1:08 was great! This part had me LOL:
So maybe hire some locals to sit in the stands. You could have producers holding up “applause” or “wave hankies” signs, so the uninterested crowd would respond correctly.
Great stuff!
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 30, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
So when are they gonna hand out Silver Sluggers??
I’m guess November 7!
By kirknga
October 30, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
Shaun
I believe Wren says he expects to contend next season. That is the setup for my questions.
If you want to win now, why shouldn’t the players that are producing for you now be the ones you trade last instead of the guys who might produce, or might not?
Look, I’m greedy. I want Peavy and I want Hanson and I want Escobar too!
I think Wren is saying the right thing and doing the right thing by refusing to trade certain players. I just think that when push comes to shove, I’m letting the unknown quantity at a position of depth go before the known quantity at a position without it.
And don’t forget that part of the equation is taking on $6.5 million more in payroll which does not help our pursuit of another top starter and power bat. So if trading Hanson means that I get to keep my very good and cheap SS for the next decade, while maintaining payroll flexibility to meet my other needs this season, then I trade him( if if I have to).
By PhillyFanDan
October 30, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
You polled people in the Atlanta area about their interest in the WS and drew your conclusions from their responses? Thank goodness you’re a blogger and not doing meaningful detective work.
In a city that can’t reliably sell out Braves playoff games, I expect nothing short of apathy for anything outside the realm of hip hop, Nascar or Michael Vick.
By Jersey Gil
October 30, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
Yes…i still alive….I GLAD THAT THE WS AND THE SEASON IS OVER…..or i have to moved out of my own House…My wife was Mucha Loca last night when the Phillis won. I said to her last night…”Honey, enjoy when last” because next Year The Bravo going all the way…looking for next season Opening Day at Phillis to declare who’s who in the National league East.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 30, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
Oh! Go suck eggs, FillyFanDan!
Shouldn’t you spell your name with a “ph” instead of an “f” for “Fan”?
By gayle
October 30, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
Boring as it might have been, are we to conclude that the AJC has deemed baseball a non-story since they can’t send their Braves’ beat writer to Philadelphia to cover it?
By Jon F.
October 30, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
Now that the Tigers paid Renteria 3mil to walk, any chance of him making another comeback in Atlanta next season? That way, Escobar could go to the Pads in the Peavy deal. I for one will be glad to see a reliable opposite field contact hitter at the top of the order.
By Shaun
October 30, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
I believe Wren says he expects to contend next season. That is the setup for my questions.
kirknga, what else is Wren supposed to say and believe? And actually I think the Braves have a decent shot to contend next season, too. Even if they make other moves besides a Peavy trade, I think they have an okay shot at contending.
I just don’t see how trading a bunch of young players for Peavy actually helps payroll flexibility. If anything, it hurts it. That’s why the Braves have to make for darn sure if they do a Peavy trade they trade the right players.
As far as trading Escobar, I’m with you. I think it would probably be about as bad as trading Hanson. I’m sure you’re responding to someone else, but I’m with you on Escobar.
The more I think about it, the more I think the Peavy trade is a bad idea…unless for some reason the Padres ask for lesser package than one centered around Hanson or Escobar or Schafer or of course Heyward.
By mbatl
October 30, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Five players is exactly what I’d like to give up for Peavy. Quantity, not top quality.
I’d be fine with something like Morton, Locke, Redmon (that’s a lot of pitching - maybe even Rohrbough instead of Locke, if necessary), plus - just spitballing here - Prado and Diory Hernandez or Brent Lillibridge (meeting the middle infielder requirement).
I’d hate to lose Morton - from what I’ve read and seen, he’s got a lot of potential. And Rohrbough is a great prospect, but at least a couple of years away.
But that falls in the “give quality to get quality” category.
By TommyP
October 30, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Philly: I’ll bet the Braves would sell out now if they made the playoffs.
That’s such a tired argument, too. Atlanta is so full of transplants that there isn’t much of a question why they don’t sell out all of their postseason games.
Add to the fact that making the playoffs meant nothing during that streak after awhile. It was World Series or bust after about 7 or so years.
Besides, there’s a lot more to do in Georgia than in Philly.
Was Mike Jacobs the guy that came up as a catcher? Can’t quite remember if he was the guy.
By PhillyFanDan
October 30, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
McFann - Re: “Shouldn’t you spell your name…”
Umm. No. Idiot.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 30, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
mbatl—
Not a bad trade proposal. I’d do it…I think…
By Lew
October 30, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
KirkInGa-Whatever. Have it your way. You must be right. No one else could possibly have a clue. Have a nice day. OK?
By PhillyFanDan
October 30, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
TommyP - Re: Besides, there’s a lot more to do in Georgia than in Philly.
If you ever get your ignorant rear out of the miserable South, you’ll realize how ridiculous that statement is. Its okay that you’re not a good sports town - and to your point I don’t expect you to be one - just don’t go trying to justify it by proclaiming Georgia to be the cultural capital of the nation.
By David O'Brien
October 30, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
Besides, there’s a lot more to do in Georgia than in Philly.TommyP
Oh, really?
By kirknga
October 30, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
Shaun
I believe Wren could say that the Braves were rebuilding and expect to contend in a couple of years. I think fans would buy that. What they will not buy is just saying stuff to say it.
Trading a bunch a young prospects instead of players helps payroll flexibility because the Braves will not have to take on an additional $6.5 million at a time when they’ll still need another top starter, a power bat, and to resign Ohman, etc…
If we take on Green. Who knows if he’ll resign with us after next season, which means we could be looking for another SS. And if he does resign, he’s likely to get an increase in salary. So the Braves now have to spend money at a position they did not have to before.
By Mark Biles
October 30, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
Glad the series is over. It was boring.
They need to cut out some spring training games so the series can end in better weather in mid October.
By kirknga
October 30, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
Lew
I could be wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time, won’t be the last.
But that is why I ask questions instead of just coming in and assuming I know it all, or that the conventional wisdom about something is correct.
Thanks for the convo, hopefully you won’t hold a grudge and we’ll talk again.
By Lew
October 30, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
The following is a Review of a New CD. If you don’t like discussing music, if you don’t like the bands Queen, Bad Company, or Free, you might just want to scroll on past this post and save yourselves the obvious pain it will cause.
“The Cosmos Rocks” by Queen with Paul Rodgers
Listening to a new album by Queen is somewhat fraught with inherent difficulties right off the bat-there’s no more Freddie Mercury and can there ever really be a Queen without him? The Dude was a consummate front man with a vocal range for the ages. As I mentioned earlier, he is about as irreplaceable to a bands’ sound as anyone in rock over the past 30 years has been. I ask you-could anyone else have written or pulled off Bohemian Rhapsody? Might as well just face reality-the Dude was a Rock Legend if ever there was one.
Now that being said, Paul Rodgers is hardly chopped liver, having performed quite successfully with a couple of seminal rock bands, Free and Bad Company (I exclude The Firm-that band demeaned both Rodgers AND Jimmy Page). I pretty much believe that he was chosen for Queen’s reincarnation just because he doesn’t really sound like Freddie Mercury. This was probably a good decision.
The new Queen-maybe predictably-sounds like Free with Brian May on guitar. If you heard the “Return of the Champions” live set, think of the Covers they did of Wishing Well and All Right now. Much of this CD has that feel. I enjoyed those cuts on the live album, so I pretty well get into this as well.
The more rocking songs-Cosmos Rockin’ , Still Burnin’ and Warboys are fairly typical Queen rockers-lots of wailing Brian May guitar work on that custom made guitar of his. Warboys could have come from the Sheer Heart Attack sessions and Surf’s Up…School’s Out could have been a Queen concert rabble rouser back in the day and will likely be included in any live sets they will play supporting the album. The single offering, C-Lebrity is another raucous tune with good guitar work.
The slower pieces are somewhat reminiscent of Bad Company, but are typically enough Queen-like that though good music, leaves you really missing Freddie Mercury. I guess in the long run, we’ll never be able to listen to any band named Queen that includes Brian May and Roger Taylor without thinking of him. I suppose we’ll just have to settle for “that’s the way it is” and appreciate that while different, Paul Rodgers is good in his own right. I also suppose that comparisons are inevitable.
All in all, this is a pretty tight collection of songs. I kind of wish they’d rocked it up a bit more, but that’s just me. I like @$$ kicking rock and roll and always will. The recording is excellent and the production is about as good as could be had (though I wonder what difference Roy Thomas Baker’s production would have made). It is a well made CD and should provide some interesting listening.
By David O'Brien
October 30, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
In a city that can�t reliably sell out Braves playoff games, I expect nothing short of apathy for anything outside the realm of hip hop, Nascar or Michael Vick.PhillyFanDan
Apathy? Dude, it’s an absolutee college football hotbed, something you might not be familiar with in Philly.
Within a couple hours of Atlanta, there are five major football program (Georgia, Auburn, Alabama, Clemson, South Carolina) that sell out every game in humongous stadiums, most upwards of 90,000. Not to mention Georgia Tech, which has a stadium half that size but still draws crowds that dwarf anything in Philly.
Near as I can tell, you’ve got nearby Penn State but nothing else resembling major college football within easy driving distance of Philly (Penn in the city? Please, Ivy League football doesn’t count in this comparison.)
There’s also ACC basketball at G. Tech, which might not be Duke or Kansas for crowds, but certainly isn’t “apathy” either.
We’ve got sellouts for every SEC championship game and the bowl formerly known as Peach, and the SEC basketball tournament draws well at Georgia Dome.
So while there might not be as much passion for pro sports here, there certainly is more for college sports. You’re in a pro-sports town, much like New York is a pro-sports town.
I didn’t even mention stuff like gymnastics at UGA (you might laugh, but they draw 10,000 for just about every event, probably about what Penn draws for football? So strap on your leotard before you pooh-pooh coach Yocula — Lady Yoc, as we like to call her here at Braves/MIB — and her Gym Dogs).
By KC
October 30, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
THE 2008 SEASON IS OFFICIALLY OVER!!!!!!! THANK YOU GOD!!!
Within the next 3 months, we should have some idea of what 2009 may hold. By the end of January, any/all significant trades/signings should be completed. Also we’ll have a better idea in a few months as to whether or not Smoltz and/or Glavine will be able to factor into the plans for next season.
By Efrim
October 30, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
Shaun
The more I think about it, the more I think the Peavy trade is a bad idea…unless for some reason the Padres ask for lesser package than one centered around Hanson or Escobar or Schafer or of course Heyward.
Right there with you. Check in on the free agent market and keep the young players. Wait a year, maybe similar talent emerges in trade. It’s possible.
By Dadgum
October 30, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
Mark Biles…right on with your 1:55 post dude. Doubt DOB would object to less time in Dark Star. Seriously though starting the season early to end in mid-October will bring you far worse weather on the front end than what you would save on the back end of the season. Every year we have games snowed out to start the year and that is after the schedulers try to schedule warm climes the first week.
I do agree with trimming spring training by a couple of weeks. Hey I am also in favor of trimming the NFL pre-season too. Games get more meaningless and injury risks rise. Hey it is always discussed but no change so I guess they like the long spring training. Man, can’t wait for that Georgia Tech/Braves game in mid February. Should be rivetting!!
By Ron in mobile
October 30, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
DOB I just noticed that the Marlins shipped Jacobs to the Royals. I know every time we play down in Florida the crowds are a joke. Then every off season they ship away basically any player making considerably more than league minimum.
So my question is are the Marlins owernship just trying to make people uninterested and sort of tank their franchise(ala former seattle supersonics). Whats your view on this perpetual offseason unloading?
By Lew
October 30, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
Kirkinga-Dude, that’s what I’ve been trying to tell you. I’m not upset. My feelings aren’t hurt. I haven’t called you names (just said that one position was shortsighted). I’m not upset with you. I DON’T think Your And Idiot. Isn’t that what I said?
I just disagree with your couple of posts on trading Hanson. That’s all. I don’t disagree with everything you’ve ever said-just this topic. How can I hold a grudge when I’m not angry? Have no fear. All is cool. I promise. Really.
By Original Jon
October 30, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
Did anyone read this part of the Mark Bowman article? It says, and I quote ‘During a conversation with a friend in Atlanta last week, Peavy reiterated his desire to pitch for the Braves. But at the same time, he indicated he was concerned that the Braves might not be able to compete with the Phillies and Mets.’
Makes it sound as if Peavy wants to come here, but only if he is sure Atlanta is a serious contender.
By KC
October 30, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Personally, I feel that if the Braves can get Peavy, add one more big bat, and re-sign Hampton… they’ll have a good chance next season.
If those are the only 2 significant pieces they add (along with keeping Hampton), they’ll need for some other things to roll their way (a comeback of either Smoltz or Glavine—at least one of the two… and bounceback season from Francoeur). But adding those 2 pieces will put them back in contention.
If the Braves can add Peavy, a slugger, AND another top-half-of-rotation starter, I don’t think there could be any question that the Braves are back in the picture for post-season contention.
Here’s hoping for a fruitful winter!
By David O'Brien
October 30, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Dadgum, no, I would definitely not object to fewer days at Dark Star. But I don’t see it happening. Not movement afoot. We’re actually going to be there for nearly a week longer this season, and the regular season starts a week later than it did last year. Not a smart move by baseball.
By Daybed Wagmoe
October 30, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
Article from the LA Times
I apologize if this has already been posted — I haven’t seen it on here yet, but I could’ve missed it.
I’ll include the relevant part here: *Re-signing Derek Lowe or landing free agent CC Sabathia are options. A less likely solution is to trade for the suddenly available Jake Peavy. People close to the situation who were unauthorized to discuss the matter publicly say that the San Diego Padres would demand more in return from the Dodgers because they are in the same division.
Colletti said he hasn’t spoken this off-season with Brad Penny, who publicly questioned the team’s commitment to him. The Dodgers have to decide in the next week whether to pick up the $9.25-million option for 2009 or buy it out for $2 million.*
If this article is accurate, that’s good news to hear as a Braves fan. As for the Penny paragraph, if his shoulder looks like it could be alright fairly soon then the Braves might look at him.
By Lew
October 30, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
DOB-Dude, you forgot that hotbed of Philadelphia Football Fantasia-Temple. The first two college games I ever attended were Temple games (against Bowling Green and Boston College back in the late 60’s)-me and about 200 of my closest friends. Is it any wonder I moved south and went to UGA?
By Bfan
October 30, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
Must respectfully disagree with DOB & Peter Gammons. I enjoyed the WS this year because of the unusual matchup. Since the Braves aren’t in it, you have to at least be intrigued by the Rays road to the championship. And having worked in Philly on a project in 2005, I gotta give ‘em this — those fans are crazy in love with their teams. Maybe a little OCD, but with a life & death kind of passion that I found admirable. I couldn’t bring myself to pull for a NL East division foe to win, but it’s a nice story when one of the hard luck franchises in the game gets only the 2nd championship in their century+ history. Except for game 4, every game was close with drama in the 9th inning, and what a pleasure it was seeing a game resolved (two days late though it was) before 10pm! There ‘s a lesson in that silver lining for all the people who bemoan that kids aren’t getting interested in baseball anymore. Outside of Hawaii, how many 8-year olds ever see a clinching game unfold live?
As for the rain & cold, what are you going to do? Only obvious improvement would be to remove the off days within each series. Give everyone a day off between rounds, but keep playing the postseason the way they play the regular season. This also makes the the playoffs more like the season in terms of pitching. The way it is now, a team with two dominant starters (e.g. 2001 DBacks) has a better chance than a team with talent throughout their rotation (e.g. ‘91-2003 Braves).
By DonCoburleone
October 30, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
DOB you said last night that you think a deal for Peavy could get done without giving up Hanson or Heyward; but I’ve heard that there is no way a deal gets done without a top of the line pitching prospect and that means if the Braves won’t give up Hanson, they’d have to give up Jair Jurrjens. And IMO, that would be stupid.
So in other words, you think if the Braves put together a package of say, Cole Rohrbourgh, Charlie Morton, Yunel Escobar, Brandon Jones, and say, Blaine Boyer the Pad’s might bite?
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 30, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
FillyFanDan Umm. No. Idiot.
OK. Just thought I’d ask.
By Daybed Wagmoe
October 30, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
PhillyFanDan — Have you ever been to Atlanta, or Georgia for that matter? Are you able to speak from experience about the “miserable South,” or are you going by what you perceive about that part of the nation?
By PhillyFanDan
October 30, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
David - thanks for the meaningful insight into the college sports scene in ATL. I respect that in a city. It does make me wonder though why a league would want to put/keep a pro team there. The pros will always be secondary.
True, Philly is not a college football town but the do love their basketball.
By Shaun
October 30, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
Ron in mobile, that’s actually a good move by the Marlins to unload Jabobs. Jacobs’ career AVG/OBP/SLG: .262/.318/.498…and he’s a firstbaseman.
I think the Marlins just realize it’s profitable for them if they acquire young, cheap players; don’t worry about whether fans come out; and hope that every now and then they’ll go deep into the playoffs or win the Series and make a money then. Also, they perpetually try to con the locals into giving up their tax dollars for a new stadium, and they figure eventually folks are going to give in.
By PhillyFanDan
October 30, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
Daybed - I regret using that adjective. My emotions got the best of me, though my point still stands.
By kirknga
October 30, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
KC, that might be what ends up happening. Or perhaps they sign a guy like Burnett, resign Hampton, and bring up Hanson in addition to the big bat.
I think we’ve focused on Peavy so much that we haven’t really focus much on who the second starter might be.
The Peavy deal could effect who the second guy is if we have to take back additional salary.
I’ve predicted that the Braves would flirt with acquiring someone big, but back down because of price and that we would see Hampton and Glavine in the rotation and maybe one value-priced innings-eater guy added to the rotation.
By Lew
October 30, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
PhillyFanDan-Dude, I think you have no real clue about the type of fan that resides in Atlanta. I was born and raised in Philly and moved to Geogia soon after I graduated HS, so I guess I have a pretty clear view of both cities.
Philadelphia has a Metro population of more than three times that of Atlanta. Yet, despite this population disparity, you only pulled in 3.4 million fans with a World Series Championship team, while the Braves pulled in 2.5 million with one third the population and a team damn near 20 games under .500.
Which team drew more per capita support for their team? Sure wasn’t the Phillies. Of course, that per capita might just rise for the Phillies, seeing how Philly and Detroit are the only two major cities who have actually lost population the past 15 years or so. Wow. To be lumped in with Detroit as a city where people are running to leave. How proud you must be.
By Wayne, the Salesman
October 30, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Edwin Jackson, Andy Sonnenstine, Pat Maholm, Ian Snell, Aaron Laffey are names that come to mind as non-Peavy possibilities. Also, you have some buy low, hope they return guys like Bannister in KC or Hill w/ the Cubbies.
Personally, I would make a play for Matt Cain, then punt and trade Blanco for Ryan Freel!!!
:-)
By Ron in mobile
October 30, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Shaun I see what your saying about it not being a terrible move. At the same time the guy did hit 32 homers this season. Plus ten of his 80 career bombs have come off our pitching. Thats proably why his name jumped at more me than some others would have.
Even still there is no way the marlins replace 32 and 93 rbi production next year. If im a Marlins fan im not happy
By David O'Brien
October 30, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
So in other words, you think if the Braves put together a package of say, Cole Rohrbourgh, Charlie Morton, Yunel Escobar, Brandon Jones, and say, Blaine Boyer the Pad’s might bite?DonC
Something along those lines, perhaps, though I don’t know that the Braves would include Escobar in that package if giving up all those prospects. We’ll see. Might have to, but I don’t know if they would.
They aren’t going to trade Jurrjens, so you needn’t bring his name into the equation. Hanson and Jurrjens, I can’t see them dealing. You’re talking about two young guys who could occupy two of the top three spots in your rotation for years to come.
By DAP
October 30, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
i would like to echo others’ scoff at phillyfandan and also add that southern sports fans are very passionate and actually know how to act in public, unlike thier northern counterparts, especially in philly.
By anti-shanks
October 30, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
Nice name, lol, but you ain’t putting him down? What was your name on his site?
I have to get back to baseball talk. This is unhealthy debating with a youngsterBilly
I bet I’m a good bit older than you are and like I said i ‘ve never been on his site. wouldn’t waste my time. You’re a hypocrite for all your lecture and then calling me a liar, but I already figured that you were a close-minded little judgmental p**. And I’m not the only one on here who thinks Bill is pretty worthless except as a cheerleader. You might notice that if you could get your nose out of his rump-roast long enough to look, Billy boy.
By DAP
October 30, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
ron in mobile i think the marlins plan is to improve defense, mostly, so they will move cantu to first (i think) and get some one who can play 3rd. while 32 and 93 isnt easy to replace, its not like they dont have many other weapons, and a decent third baseman could give them production that isnt that far off of that, while giving them better defense, which is worth some runs.
defense and pitching were the marlins’ weaknesses last year, so id say the move is a good one taking everything into account.
By Wayne, the Salesman
October 30, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Is November 20th the date that rosters need to be set for the major league club?
By RC
October 30, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
Can someone clarify Edgar Renteria’s arbitration situation? I thought I read somewhere that because his option was declined the Tigers also gave up the right to offer him arbitration, yet now I’m reading that due to his Type-A designation, if the Tigers offer arbitration they will gain a draft pick from the team that signs him. Can they offer him arbitration or not?
By Shaun
October 30, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
Ron in mobile, I would be happy if I were a Marlins fan. You just got rid of a firstbaseman that made outs more often than any firstbaseman in the game. Jacobs had the sixth-worst on-base percentage in the majors among qualifiers…and he’s a firstbaseman!
By kirknga
October 30, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
Interesting names Wayne.
I could see Sonnenstine, Cain, maybe Snell. But Pat Maholm?
By Lawrenceville Matt
October 30, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
Just saw this post on the San Diego Padres blog…wasn’t sure if it was sarcastic, I certainly laughed…You decide:
“Since the Peavy trade rumors arn’t going to stop, what about this proposition: Jake Peavy and Khalil Greene to the braves for Yunel Escobar, Jordan Shafer, Jason Heywerd, Tommy Hanson, and Jair Jurrjens/Or another top pitching prospect. Does that sound reasonable?”
By Wayne, the Salesman
October 30, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
RC An amateur’s explanation: They had a contract w/ a buyout option. When they declined to pick up his option, he immediately became a FA. That is what I believe. I don’t think they can offer arbitration since he had an option, and they chose to decline it.
Hope that’s right…
If we have to deal Escobar or KJ in a Peavy deal, maybe Edgar would be interested in coming back to ATL. I would love to see him with the tomahawk on his uni again.
By ccrider
October 30, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Returning to baseball rather than anti-shanks discussing brown nosing or phillyfandan, whose Philadelphia fans have long been known for being the most rude, obscene, violent, and moronic in sports, yapping about sports fans in Atlanta he obviously knows nothing about. The White Sox just declined the option on catcher Toby Hall. A vet catcher who should be cheap and hits lefties well. He sounds like a good potential backup to McCann to me.
By Wayne, the Salesman
October 30, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Would you guys deal Francouer for Aaron Harang?
By Wayne, the Salesman
October 30, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
From a fans perspective, it is often times hard to determine why a player had an off year. Sometimes the reason is obvious, other times not so.
Hopefully our scouts have a good list of those players out there that might could be had for less, due to an off season (the Frenchy guys).
What truly happened to guys like Harang, Bannister, Hill, Arroyo and Maholm (and others)???
Where can we find somebody else’s Kyle Davies that needs a change of scenery?
Forgot to mention on my previous post: Frenchy for Harang AND Ryan Freel!!
:-)
By DAP
October 30, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
lawrencevill matt you gotta post a link for that padres blog, man. ive gotta see this.
By Josh P.
October 30, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
In a heartbeat
By Wayne, the Salesman
October 30, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
L’ville Matt If we throw in McCann, then I do that deal if I’m the Padres. Then as a Utahn, I could just start pulling for my SD Pad”braves”. Heck it would be easier to see my home team that way!
By DonCoburleone
October 30, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
Thats good to hear about Jurrjens DOB… I don’t think he can be a true Ace one day, but definately a solid #2. I just hope he can stay healthy.
And DOB (or anyone with a link to a scouting report) could you tell me what Tommy Hanson’s repertoire is and the things he does that are above average as well as any potential weaknesses??
By Steve from OH
October 30, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
Don’t you think “prospect-hugging” is a bit of an oversimplification? It’s not a question of loving all prospects, but you know, using things like scouting and player evaluation to identify the good ones so you can keep them in your system and trade away the ones you don’t like (or like less) for players that you need, like Jake Peavy. Won’t get very far trading away your entire farm system every offseason for a few players, especially with a limited payroll like ours (relatively speaking, of course). Just the same, you won’t get very far not trading a single prospect unless you’re like the Marlins and have absolutely no cash whatsoever.
The whole idea is saying that you think players x, y, and z (or whoever) are can’t-miss, and keeping them as part of your future plan, and giving up other good players that you don’t particularly think fit into the future plan quite as fluidly (Flowers and one of Hernandez or Schafer come to mind).
Keep in mind that Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Cole Hamels, Pat Burrell and Jimmy Rollins were all Phillies prospects. Good thing that they didn’t trade those guys away, eh? It is not unreasonable to suggest that one can build a team through drafting, developing, and promoting players through the farm system. It is a smart thing to do. And when time comes to make a deal for someone, it is important NOT to trade the players that you are planning to build with (Heyward, Hanson, Schafer, Freeman) so that you can keep your young core intact and add to it, not add and subtract at the same time.
Efrim, mbatl:
Totally agree. Quantity over quality. Give ‘em all the Redmonds and Medlens and Flowers’ they want. If it keeps Schafer, Hanson, et al in our system, give ‘em 5 or 6 lower-level guys or 2nd tier prospects.
By Lee in S GA
October 30, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
Lawrenceville Matt
On a Padres blog I could see where a Padres fan would really think that was going to happen. Everyone dreams I suppose. I still think if Peavy is acquired Jordan Shafer or Hanson one (not both) will be included in the deal. I really don’t want the trade to happen if that is the case. Jurrjens no way. Escobar a possiblity.
By Lawrenceville Matt
October 30, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
Here is the link…the post or question is near the bottom froma Dave Turok:
Stupid Padres Question
By Wayne
October 30, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
Steve Let’s try to hang onto Craig Kimbrell too! Might be our closer in a few.
By kirknga
October 30, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Wayne,
Heck No! Francouer should not be traded, he should still be considered part of the young core.
I’m not going to say that I know he’ll bounce back, but I think he’s shown enough to merit one more season.
By Shaun
October 30, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this
Keep in mind that Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Cole Hamels, Pat Burrell and Jimmy Rollins were all Phillies prospects. Good thing that they didn’t trade those guys away, eh? It is not unreasonable to suggest that one can build a team through drafting, developing, and promoting players through the farm system. It is a smart thing to do.
Actually, Steve, I would argue that it’s necessary to build the core of a great team through drafting and player development. Rarely in the history of the game have we seen a team build a winner primarily through free agency and/or trading away young talent for proven talent. Usually it’s building a core from within, making some savvy trades and signing free agents to fill holes.
By Lawrenceville Matt
October 30, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Lee…I hear ya…I realize trades are one-sided. This offer just caught me off-guard and even scared me a bit.
By Steve from OH
October 30, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
Wayne:
Don’t think we can trade him anyway (isn’t there a certain time period after a player is drafted that you can’t trade him?)…so we’ll get a good look at him next season. All reports say 97-98 MPH heater and good slider. I like that kid too.
By Tomas
October 30, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Mike Jacobs for Leo Nuñez.
Oh my god, the marlins GM, it’s truly a genius. Leo Nuñez is awesome, but now they need to acquire two left handed bats.
By redchip
October 30, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Anyone know of the players who are out of options this coming year? Seems like we might have a ton of decisions to make on that side of the business.
By N Nine
October 30, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this
You’re talking about two young guys who could occupy two of the top three spots in your rotation for years to come DOB
and Peavy would take that last spot
By Steve from OH
October 30, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
Shaun:
That’s the point I was trying to make. Giving up our top prospects takes us farther away from that goal, which is why we shouldn’t do it.
By Wayne
October 30, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
The moderator on the Padres Q&A blog, said to the guy: “Braves said they aren’t giving up Hanson or Heyward.”
He forgot to add dummy
kirknga Not saying I would deal Frenchy either. Personally, I think he will come back. If Harang’s issues last year were temporary, he could be a strong top of the rotation guy. Is that worth giving up a good defensive outfielder with 290-25-100 potential?
These questions are what Frank Wren gets paid to answer…
By kirknga
October 30, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH
I agree with you on the oversimplification part. I think whoever first used that term did so in jest.
With regards to the Phillies you mentioned, not only were they once prospects, the Phillies didn’t trade them away once they got to the big leagues and played well.
I hope the Braves follow a similar path.
By Wayne
October 30, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
Shaun Or dealing experienced players to other teams for prospects that fill gaps in our system. IE John Smoltz, Jair Jurrjens, Gorkys H, etc.
Gotta run…later.
By ncscoots
October 30, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
So strap on your leotard before you pooh-pooh coach Yocula
Not to mention, Coach Yoc could make the poster in question cry “Mama”, after the pain subsided enough.
But, DOB, I thought Coach Yoc was retiring, last year or this year, one of those?
By Shaun
October 30, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
Oh my god, the marlins GM, it’s truly a genius. Leo Nuñez is awesome, but now they need to acquire two left handed bats.
I don’t know if the Marlins’ GM is a genius and I don’t know about Nunez being awesome but it’s great for them that they dumped Jacobs on the Royals.
The Royals have plenty of young firstbase/DH talent yet they acquire a league average hitter, at best, that can only play firstbase/DH.
By The Hungry Madgarian
October 30, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
Where could a Braves fan go to get a rundown on HS and College players who might be available when the Braves choose?
Don’t we have the 7th or 8th choice?
Thank you
By Jake
October 30, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
thanks for the meaningful insight into the college sports scene in ATL. I respect that in a city. It does make me wonder though why a league would want to put/keep a pro team there. The pros will always be secondary
That’s not necessarily the case. Atlanta makes perfect sense in putting a sports franchise. I know when most people think of new franchises they think the Rays, Marlins, Diamondbacks, Carolina Panthers and so on but in comparison to your Philadelphia franchises those in Atlanta are still not that old. The Hawks, Falcons, and Braves all began playing in Atlanta in the late 1960’s and the Phillies have been in Philadelphia since the 1800’s. You have got to give franchises some time to grow. Everyone of them will go through some ups and downs. There are many other factors that lead to it like the fact that most philadelphians are native born while a lot of people in Atlanta are making their secondary home here. I would even argue that in the case of the Braves they are more so a regional team than just the team of atlanta and georgia. They have many fans throughout the south that make their way to the games and nationally i think they are more popular than the phillies. I think this blog alone shows that.
By gogobraves
October 30, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this
good stuff about Hanson
http://orioles.scout.com/a.z?s=251&p=2&c=803661
By Braveheart
October 30, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this
thanks for the meaningful insight into the college sports scene in ATL. I respect that in a city. It does make me wonder though why a league would want to put/keep a pro team there. The pros will always be secondary.
The Braves have had over 30,000 fans a game for almost two decades now. It’s now about 2 or 3 times as much as it was two decades ago.
The Falcons sold out the Georgia Dome for five seasons during the Michael Vick years and may build towards that again once the Vick scars heal and if Matt Ryan continues to be as good as he looks and if they ever have two back to back winning seasons for the first time in franchise history.
The Hawks drew crowds in the Dominique years …… and have had trouble drawing recently because the management of that team is clueless. If they ever got a clue and give the city a great team with a great star or two, the NBA would likely be huge here …… you only need to look at the television ratings during the NBA playoffs to see how much the NBA fan base is being squandered here due to incompetent ownership and front office management.
The Thrashers are relatively new but are building, as far as I can tell, a good, loyal fan base. Given enough time, I believe the NHL will work here like it does in most cities ….. with a small, devout, loyal, almost cultish following that heavily attends games.
There is no greater golf event than the Masters ……. try to get a ticket to that thing …. even better, try getting one for a reasonable price.
Even a silly thing like arena football gets good attendance in Gwinnett from the few games I have gone to there.
And NASCAR in the Atlanta area is not as big as you’d think. Just check the AJC’s website. You’d think there would be a fulltime NASCAR beat writer/columnist but there doesn’t seem to be one b/c NASCAR really isn’t as big here as your bias about Southerners would lead you to believe. If it was, I’m guessing the AJC would take advantage of that. Nevertheless, NASCAR is big in the overall Southeast region the Braves draw their fan base from and NASCAR gets thousands and thousands attending or watching races every Sunday. Talledega alone draws enormously in the two races they have.
So, I don’t think it is fair to say that pro sports is not big here. I also think you have to remember that this is a growing city being increasingly filled with transplants from other cities who already have loyalties to other teams that they have loved since their childhood. As those folks live here longer and longer and inevitably get sucked in because they grow fond of some guys on Atlanta teams and as those folks give birth to kids who naturally become attached to the local teams here that their friends at school follow, attendance should grow even more.
By Kentavo
October 30, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this
Is there anybody left in Philly?
I think there’ll all down here at Myrtle Beach?
By nolie
October 30, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this
The whole idea is saying that you think players x, y, and z (or whoever) are can’t-miss, and keeping them as part of your future plan, and giving up other good players that you don’t particularly think fit into the future plan quite as fluidly (Flowers and one of Hernandez or Schafer come to mind).Steve
sure, that’s the best way to approach it, but it certainly isn’t foolproof. Guys who are labeled can’t-miss do in fact miss sometimes, and guys who might be rated lower at that time may succeed much better. And of course it gets even more complicated when you are discussing dealing for a true impact pitcher of which there are not that many. Making it even more attractive with Peavy is the somewhat below market-value salary and the length of the contract insuring that he would be around for a time, not just a one to two year deal like Tex was. In order to get a guy of that stature you are going to have to give up someone who hurts most times. I’d love to have him and I’d probably give more than many here would cause I know first hand how much good luck is involved in finding such a guy and having him reach that level. Rememder a decade or more ago when the Mets had three “can’t miss”” #1/#2 pitchers and not one of them ever produced for them, mostly injuries ith that case. Anyway, the Braves brass have been pretty darn good about who to keep and who to trade so I’m willing to abide by their decision whichever way it goes in this case(as if any of us had a choice). There are other options even though none quite such a good fit. Let’s just get something done towards those two starters and the Big Bopper.
By ShaSha
October 30, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
One of the worst World Series ever. Few people I know watched it and neither did I. Surfing channels and running into it was about all. After Game 1, it was a joke. I don’t believe the best teams made to the final series, but that’s life. These mini playoff series favor whoever is hot at the time. I’m sure TV rating were way down for this one. Philly and Tampa watched it and the rest of the world was tuned into some more interesting, like Jay Leno.
By nolie
October 30, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
Rarely in the history of the game have we seen a team build a winner primarily through free agency and/or trading away young talent for proven talent. Usually it’s building a core from within, making some savvy trades and signing free agents to fill holes.Shaun
You’re right but to an extent. I don’t think that’s all that appropriate when discussing the Braves as they have never attempted any such thing since Bobby/John/Frank have been here. They have a high percentage of home-grown right now and even trading for Peavy would not really change that fact.They have almost always traded for replacement rather than use free agency as Frank said a few weeks ago it is usually more efficient. They aren’t about to become Yankees South.
By mbatl
October 30, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this
Tough day for Tommy Hanson at Arizona…. 5 innings pitched, 0 runs (of course) and 0 walks … but he gave up 3 hits and only struck out 5. Geez, the guy is slipping.
Seriously, the problem I think Tommy will have when he reaches the majors is that he’ll give up much more contact. Today, 47 strikes in 66 pitches… he’s probably gonna have to learn to throw fewer strikes when facing better hitters.
By Epinephrine
October 30, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
Well, Hanson was dominate again today. Dude’s stock is going through the roof.
It does seem he might have minor control issues, but that should not be a significant problem going forward.
As for Schafer—it is becoming pretty clear the guy cannot hit left handed pitching. Wouldn’t surprise me if we had a platoon in center this year.
By Wayne
October 30, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
Who will Schafer platoon with? All our CF’ers are lefties. (hint: R.F.) Sometimes it’s hard to avoid the inevitable…
:-)
By TennesseePaul
October 30, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
Within a couple hours of Atlanta, there are five major football program (Georgia, Auburn, Alabama, Clemson, South Carolina)
Just for fairness sake, Knoxville TN is the same distance as USC (columbia)… The Vols have a massive stadium (second largest in college football I believe) seating almost 110,000. They too sale out every game.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
October 30, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this
WOW, if Mike Jacobs can be had for a pitcher who projects as a closer (Leo Nunez), then Scott Olsen can be had for something relatively cheap. Like one minor league fringe prospect?
I would have suggested Jo-Jo Reyes straight up for Olsen, but under the current trade value system that seems to be a bit much.
By nitram odarp
October 30, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
maybe this would be the time to include schaffer in a package for peavy if he cant hit the left hander very well. anything that keeps them away from the untouchables. what about bringing back kotsay he seemed to be able to hit the lefties pretty well
By Bruce's Pearl
October 30, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this
WAYNE: Infante is servicable in center and hits RH,that would certainly be one possibility and Cox wants to get him AB’s.If he platooned with either Schafer or Anderson,he would likely get in about 200-250 AB’s. Throw in games at SS and 2B in addition to PH he would probably end up with about 400-500 AB’s. He is not the greatest CF’er but he is much better there than in left.
By Bruce's Pearl
October 30, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
TNPAUL:
After renovations Neyland Stadium seats 102,037 the largest in the south and third largest in America.Including standing room there were over 106,000 for the Alabama game last Saturday.
By nolie
October 30, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this
As for Schafer—it is becoming pretty clear the guy cannot hit left handed pitching. Wouldn’t surprise me if we had a platoon in center this yeaEpi
Kinda looks that way so far. The main reason that I would be more than happy to include him in a package for Peavy. It’s not impossible, but it’s highly unlikely that he will develop into anything remotely approaching Peavy’s impact stature.
By Wayne
October 30, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this
nitram Maybe we should just put your namesake out in CF. Heck, I hear he is superman! (I like Kotsay too!)
If LA pays all but 1 million of AJ’s salary, he could platoon with Kotsay. (for a million bucks salary, if he flops, we can cut his fat azz.) We could send them Scott Thorman for him.
What are the chances that FW puts together at least one deal next week in CA?
Coach As much of a flop as he was for half of the year, if Reyes could ever get his head straight, he might be a decent #3 guy down the road. At times he has looked very good.
If he has to go to sweeten some other deal, I am OK with that too.
Does anybody know what happened to Bannister in KC and Hill in Chicago this past year? They had breakthrough seasons in ‘07, but flopped this year.
By Steve from OH
October 30, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this
nolie, that’s true, and like you said, that’s why a team needs a top-notch system of not only evaluating players, but keeping good player projections on the lower-level prospects and the ability to adjust those projections as a prospect moves through the system (i.e. a “toolsy” player that doesn’t produce is good trade bait and stuff like that). My point is that that is the best way to create a winning franchise, not just a team that wins every time the team sells the farm for a few free agents-to-be. I don’t want to be that team, and a megablockbuster deal of a ton of prospects for Peavy really doesn’t make us an instant contender in my view. We NEED to take a gamble on some of those guys to help us in the future to be competitive. We’ve got too many holes to just go out and start trading away to fill.
We need Peavy, there’s no doubt that getting him is a great start to the whole process, however, we need more than just him and some of our needs are directly available in our farm system, so it is silly to trade them away and create a hole while filling another.
I agree with you that he’s a special case, no doubt, and there really isn’t a good answer to how we should go about getting him. My stance is that pretty much all lower-level prospects are in play (except Heyward and Teheran), but guys that are ready to fill in on the major league roster like Schafer and Hanson are not. They figure to both have an impact on the ‘09 club and beyond, and be good. Not as clear of a picture with the younger guys, which is why I’m more willing to deal them. Of course, Hanson and Schafer both have excellent scouting reports and numbers and all that jazz, so that helps me make my decision too.
By Wayne
October 30, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this
Bruce’s P Let’s keep Infante out of centerfield, if at all possible. He is average at best on the infield. Decent hands, but not a lot of range. Dude looks lost in the outfield.
I will be curious if ‘08 was legit with the bat for him, or an aberration.
By mbatl
October 30, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this
Schafer hit lefties pretty well in 2007 at Myrtle Beach, but certainly did struggle against them this year at Mississippi. It may just be a matter of adjusting to better breaking pitches from the left side. But, it’s a valid concern if you’re thinking of him as our CF in 2009.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
October 30, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this
The whole gist of the problem surrounding the proposed Braves/Padres Peavy trade is this. The Padres want pitching and the Braves just don’t have it to give. Right now the Braves rotation projects as Jair Jurrjens and a bunch of what if’s. I really don’t think it’s gonna happen.
Now that the Phillies are the defending World Champions, I think it sort of puts the Braves 2009 chances of contending into perspective. Can you say wild card?
By Brian
October 30, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this
nolie- You’re talking to an old school baseball guy,(Steve)! Just can’t tell him or Coach anything they don’t already know! REDICULOUS
Here is Steve’s ‘08 Braves:
Come on, let the kids play…we’ll get ‘em in 2014!!
By keylargo
October 30, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this
You’re right Wayne. Let’s just get Freel and his $4mm salary. We’ll forget about signing Ohman and the payroll will be OK> 8)
And while we are joking around, one of the worst nightmares I could think of is having AJ back hitting cleanup - with
By Buffalo NY Braves Fan
October 30, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
I’m not so quick to give up on Schafer. As mbatl pointed out, he may just be adjusting to better breaking pitches from the left side. Remember, it took Adam LaRoche a while to adjust to hitting lefties, and he came around fairly well the season before he was traded.
As long as Schafer has a good work ethic and wants to improve (the opposite of Andruw) then I think he will find his stroke against lefties as well.
By Wayne
October 30, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
key I have been joking about Freel for a long time now, though I do like him as a good bench player, but not at 4 mil per.
I hope you realize that the AJ and Prado in center talk was all tongue in cheek.
Although it would be fun to get Andruw, tell him he had to lose down to 205 lbs, or get cut.
What scares me the most is that we either trade Schafer, or he flops. Then we have to live with Anderson or Blanco in CF for 2009. that is scary.
I personally like getting a guy like Swisher because of his versatility, and then add Casey Blake. What would those two cost us together… 12 million??
Or deal for Jermaine Dye.
I think Scott Olsen might be a decent pickup. He had some personal issues a couple of years back, but has put together two pretty good seasons.
I also like Edwin Jackson of the Rays. Would Diaz be enough to pry him away? Proabably not…
In the end, all this talk is just wild speculation until the Peavy issue gets resolved.
By Wayne
October 30, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this
What is the skinny on Jon Owings, who played OF at MB this past season? He put up pretty good numbers there, and finished strong. Supposedly has a strong arm like his big brother.
By Buffalo NY Braves Fan
October 30, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this
Wayne,
As bad as Schafer might flop offensively…. he’s still got + defensive skills and a + arm in CF. I think there won’t be that much of a difference of him struggling in CF vs what we might get out of Anderson or Blanco this year.
I am interested in what Dye could bring if he plays LF for us. Thats a solid bat, 25-30HR power and an RBI man for the middle of the order.
I’m still interested to see what happens with Pat Burrell actually. Even if he isn’t the best defender, neither is Matt Diaz… and I remember Infante looking like a butcher in LF last season as well. Burrell has more power than both of them, and can’t be any worse than Diaz in LF.
By keylargo
October 30, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this
Wayne
Sorry, I didn’t realize my last post had gone through. It disappeared and I thought it was in blog heaven.
But anyway, I was right in the middle of writing and knew you were kidding about Freel.
But really, don’t joke about AJ coming back> LOL can you imagine him hitting cleanup again and Bobby won’t move him down in the lineup or bench him when he’s hitting .148 with runners in scoring position? I never want to go through that again
And speaking of AJ’s weight, I came across a roster the year he came up. He was listed at 6’ 1” and 170. Packing on 70+ pounds makes it tough.
By Efrim
October 30, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
Here is an alarming article about available free agent starters:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3673272
Lowe and Burnett looking for at least 16 million per year on long term contracts.
I figure Lowe will get 4 years and 60-64 million and Burnett will get 5 years and 80-90 million. Can’t say I would be too happy if the Braves went for them at those prices. Peavy’s average over the next 4 seasons would be 15.75 million. He is probably a better bet than Lowe or Burnett over the next four seasons, although there are those whispers about his health. And you are giving up 3-5 prospects/players on the guy. Tough decisions for Frank Wren. We have 40 million to play with though, it could be worse.
There are some other pitchers that could be options. I know Boras is his agent, but Oliver Perez might be someone we could take a look at. 27 years old, with a great K rate and excellent opp. BA. Gotta figure Boras gets some team to pay 5 years and 75 million.
Dempster seems destined to re-up with the Cubbies. Sheets is a Jason Schmidt disaster waiting to happen. In fact, I bet you he asks for Schmidt money (3 years and 48 million). Randy Wolf had a pretty good year. He has trouble staying healthy but could really be a bargain. But again, the guy will probably get 3 years and 30 million from someone. Randy Johnson is too old and CC Sabathia is too pricey.
Won’t even mention the likes of Jon Garland and Branden Looper(even though I just did)….they are terrible.
Well, there it is. That is basically the free agent market for starters. What does everyone think about those guys?
By BravesFanInRockies
October 30, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this
Wayne,
Jackson might be available, since it looks as if Price will go into the rotation.
Don’t know how to make a trade with them fit, however. Baldelli may test the market., so they’ll need a RF. Hmm….
By David O'Brien
October 30, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
TennPaul, I almost included Tennessee, but for some reason I thought Knoxville was farther away than Columbia. I guess it’s not, then?
By Steve from OH
October 30, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this
Here’s a little blurb on Luis Valdez (who was added to the 40-man this week) from Baseball America:
Valdez, 24, has taken an unusual path to the Braves’ 40-man roster, but with a firm 90-94 mph fastball, a plus splitter and a slider as a third pitch, he’s got a chance. Signed with the Pirates out of the Dominican Republic at age 16 in 2001, Valdez spent three years in the DSL as a reliever before making his U.S. debut in 2004. He reached high Class A in 2007, his seventh pro season, posting a 4.79 ERA but striking out 78 in 73 innings. Atlanta signed him as a minor league free agent last offseason and he proceeded to turn in one of the Double-A Southern League’s better relief seasons, going 4-3, 2.76 with 77-36 strikeouts-walks in 65 innings for Mississippi.
Brian:
I think you’ve got me confused with someone else, man.
By nitram odarp
October 30, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this
wayne gotta trade someone for peavy. but i am not sold schafer should go, but if thats a flaw in his game maybe its big enough to consider trading him now. this is the first i have heard of that though. i really dont think the filthies have that good of a rotation and with some good luck the braves can field one that would make them an instant contender for the nl east and i think peavy is where this little thing starts
By Wayne
October 30, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
buffalo excellent point about Schafer vs Blanco/Anderson. I could live with a 240-250 first year average, w/ 10 HR’s and top notch “D”.
Anything less and give me Anderson…
By Braveheart
October 30, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
The Padres want pitching and the Braves just don’t have it to give. Right now the Braves rotation projects as Jair Jurrjens and a bunch of what if’s. I really don’t think it’s gonna happen. Now that the Phillies are the defending World Champions, I think it sort of puts the Braves 2009 chances of contending into perspective. Can you say wild card?
I don’t know. They’re not going to have Burrell next season and although they won the World Series, what do they have in their rotation outside of Cole Hamels that suggests they are going to be beasts for the next few years? Can they really believe 45 year old Jamie Moyer will continue on like this? Brett Myers is a fat enigmatic headcase. Kendrick? Gimme a break.
Alot of their success this year was their great bullpen and bullpens are notoriously erratic from one season to another. Lidge had a career year but he’s been up and down in his career. They got some great career years out of little guys like Victorino and Werth that they may not get next season.
I see them as a one and done to be honest. It looks to me like a classic case of a team that peaked altogether. With success like a World Series victory comes the hangover and fat head syndrome.
Also, you can’t underrate what Gillick did for that team. The man built winners in 3 towns. Lew’s boy Amaro may have Gillick’s magic touch as well but Gillick is a great GM so I wouldn’t assume that.
I’m not too scared of them next season. I think they’ll regress a bit. I don’t think we’ll come close to truly contending next season. I think the Mets will take the division crown in 2009.
I do agree though that it is amazing that the Braves only have one #3 starter who gives us 200 innings and an assumed .550 record when he starts …… I’d argue though that they actually have two starters since the fifth starter on most teams is nothing more than a 5 inning replacement level starter who eats 150/160 innings and has a .400 record like Morton/JoJo. What they’re missing is the #4 starter who gives us 180 innings and a .500 record; and two aces who give us 450 combined innings and a .625 record. Of course, those are the hardest starters to find.
In any regard, I’m not sure if I see our lack of starters as the reason we may not get Peavy. They wouldn’t want any established starter better than Jair ‘cause said established starter would likely be already getting good money and wouldn’t save them much money. Said established starter also likely wouldn’t have as many club controlled seasons as Jake has. They wouldn’t want any established starter worse than Jair because who the hell trades an ace for an average or replacement level starter? Seems pointless to me.
But I guess what you mean is if Smoltz and Hudson were healthy as the #1 and #2 and Jair was the #3 and they had the chance to get Peavy, then that would mean they were true contenders and they would be able to make themselves World Series favorites by adding Jake to a Smoltz and Hudson rotation. It would then be a relative no brainer to trade Jair for Jake. With Smoltz and Hudson, it make sense to trade Jair for Jake. Without Smoltz and Hudson, it makes no sense to trade Jair for Jake. Without the ability to trade Jair because of the Smoltz/Hudson injuries, Towers is holding a gun to Wren’s head and saying hand over Hanson and Escobar and 3 other loved ones.
Damn, that Hudson injury was so friggin’ devastating ….. at the time, it really got overshadowed because there was just so much going on with Skip dying, Tex getting traded, Smoltz and Glavine out for the season, Soriano nowhere to be found, Chuck James falling off a cliff, Chipper always injured, Francoeur being useless, the one run losses mounting, the Braves finally waiving the white flag for the first time in two decades. It seemed that by the time Hudson got injured we were in such a state of shock that we never had the chance to get shocked and devastated by the loss of Hudson.
By Buffalo NY Braves Fan
October 30, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this
Wayne,
I agree with that. And I think this year could be a sink or swim year for Schafer. Throw him out there in spring, let him get most of the reps in CF and see how he does. I’m willing to give him a shot because he can’t be worse than Blanco or Anderson offensively, and his D is supposedly better than both. I just don’t think we should give up a kid that everyone was so high on last off-season. We were all singing the praises of Schafer last year, and now that there is a chance of getting Peavy, everyone is ready to ship him off without seeing the kid play.
Pitchers seem to be much harder to grade than position players when it comes to prospects. I’d rather give up a couple pitching prospects and keep the position guys myself.
Lets not have all the kids play, but let him and Hanson play this year.
I think putting Hanson in as the 5th starter this year will do him some good. 5th starter doesn’t have nearly the pressure that the ace does, which should allow him to get his feet wet and see where he stands. The kid sounds dominant and the stats seem to back it up.
By David O'Brien
October 30, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
Guys, unless just about everyone who’s seen and evaluated Schafer (including myself, by the way) is completely wrong, this kid is going to be an entirely different level of player than, say, Blanco or Josh Anderson. Entirely.
Schafer, in my opinion, is going to become at least an above-average major league player, and potentially a standout. You watch him play, you understand what the raves are about.
Not saying he doesn’t have things to work on, or that the HGH suspension doesn’t raise at least some small question. I’m just saying he oozes talent, and he played very well in the last couple months at Double-A after returning from the suspension and initially trying too hard to make up for the lost time and the question he knew had arisen.
Gorkys, who I only saw briefly a couple times this spring, probably has even more overall raw talent than Schafer. He’s faster than Schafer (who has good, not great, speed; Gorkys has great speed), but is still developing physically, so it’s tough to tell if Gorksys will hit for much power. He does everything else, though, and that’s more than enough for CF. His arm’s terrific, as well as his range.
Both are going to be long-term major league regulars, I think it’s safe to say. And both have the skills to become very good players by any standards. Gorkys is a year or two behind Schafer in terms of being ready, I would think.
By BravesFanInRockies
October 30, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this
Braveheart,
Good call on Gillick. Teams he’s in charge of do very well. After he leaves, not so much.
It may take a year or two, but the Phils are vulnerable to a slide if Amaro basically lets Burrell walk and otherwise stands pat.
By Epinephrine
October 30, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this
To clarify, I wasn’t saying that Schafer is and will be incapable of hitting lefties. I was just saying it something that clearly needs some work. He has struggled with hitting lefties over the last two seasons, including this fall in Winter League. It is a skill that can be acquired, and he has a ton of tools. It is just he probably isn’t ready yet to thrive against Big League lefties.
By TommyP
October 30, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
DOB and PhillyFanDan: I probably should’ve added the term “outdoor” to what I said earlier but the point remains the same.
The weather is so nice for so long that there are thousands and thousands of people choosing outdoor activities over sporting events.
Just look at the number of golf courses and the participation in ALTA.
Transplants plus being in the playoffs annually (which bored people ‘til the Series) plus tons of “outdoor” opportunities equals the reason Atlanta gets a bad rap.
Hey, my sister and brother-in-law live in Philly and absolutely hate it.
As I believe Lew said, everybody is leaving Philly (and other northeast cities) for a reason.
By jerry lane
October 30, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this
ohman has a crappy attitude. to not be interested the the sports top event seems unprofessional. is not the world series the objective of every player even when you start to love the game on the sandlot. speaking of unprofessional- i thought the pp’s looked like left over beer league players. but they should be conrad. for their victory.
By Braveheart
October 30, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
Kirkinga What I was taking exception to in your posts above is that you said if we don’t trade Hanson, that means he has to be in the rotation on Opening Day. I just don’t agree with that. If you rush Hanson, you devalue your investment and don’t get the ROI you need during the six club controlled seasons you have him.
Look at Greg Maddux. If he had been allowed to get more seasoning in the minors, maybe he would have been more polished when he first got to the majors.
Maddux went 8-18 with a 5.59 ERA with 186 innings in his first 32 starts through his first full season. In his first year with the Braves, as we all know, he went 20-10 with a 2.36 ERA in 267 innings. Which season would you have rather had? Maybe if the Cubs hadn’t rushed him they would have enjoyed the 2.36 ERA Cy Young season instead of the 5.59 nightmare season.
Of course, maybe the major league seasoning is what he needed to become the Greg Maddux we all later knew…… but maybe he would have become that anyway if they had just been a little more patient with him in the minors in the beginning …… and they wouldn’t have devalued their six years of club control with him on an lost 8-18, 5.59 ERA season.
I’m in no way saying Hanson will be half as good as Maddux but it seems that if Maddux was my investment at the time, I would have rather enjoyed the 107 wins in the six seasons from his second through seventh seasons rather than the 95 wins they got in his 6+ club controlled seasons. They devalued their investment because someone thought he just had to be in the majors at the age of 20.
The Braves will get more value and bang for the buck during Hanson’s 6 club controlled seasons if they are patient and really wait until he is ready to contribute
Something else to think about is service time. If he is on the roster on day one, the mlb service time clock starts ticking and you only get to enjoy 6 seasons worth of him. If you wait until later in the season, you get to enjoy 6+ seasons of club control and 3+ seasons at a league minimum salary instead of just 3 seasons at a league minimum salary.
By TommyP
October 30, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
From Rotoworld:
White Sox declined outfielder Ken Griffey Jr.’s $16.5 million option for 2009. Griffey gets a $4 million buyout, with the White Sox paying half and the Reds picking up the rest. Griffey shouldn’t have much trouble landing a starting job this winter, but a multiyear deal is unlikely and he’s looking at a substantial paycut. We wouldn’t be shocked to see him in a Braves uniform next year.
By mbatl
October 30, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this
Of course, Josh Anderson hit .200/.234/.222 (a .456 OPS - ouch) against left handed pitching in ‘08, so if it’s hitting against LHP we’re worrying about, can’t do much worse. (granted, in very limited opportunities)
In 2008, Schafer hit .196/.306/.299 in 107 ab’s against lefties, at Mississippi;
In 2007, he hit .302/.373/.434 in 106 ab’s against lefties, at Myrtle Beach.
Neither is really a big enough sample to draw conclusions. Like I said earlier, it might indicate that he’s got some learning to do against better LH pitching. But then again, it might indicate nothing but luck (one way or the other).
He’s got a huge work ethic, from all I’ve read, and a ton of talent, so I’m not too worried about it. The question is just, “how soon will he be ready?”
I agree with those that suggest a “learning” Jordan Schafer is likely to be a better option than Anderson/Blanco. I hope he’s in center field on Opening Day.
By TennesseePaul
October 30, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
DOB: No. I thought so as well, but I googled it, 3 hours, 22 minutes to each destination. I was suprised to see the time of travel identical. I even re-checked for the sake of this post.
Knoxville to Atlanta: 3hr, 22min 213 miles
Columbia to Atlanta: 3hr, 22min 216 miles
Crazy how equal it is.
By Daybed Wagmoe
October 30, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this
With Smoltz and Hudson, it make sense to trade Jair for Jake.Braveheart
I’d have to disagree with you there. Even if Smoltz was healthy this year and had a season of something like 16-6 with an era just below 3.00 (the way he was pitching in April, he looked like he was gonna have a huge year), the Braves couldn’t look at him to continue being an ace for much longer. And even if Hudson was still healthy, they’re assured of having him for only another one, maybe two, seasons.
It wouldn’t make sense to trade Jair for Jake if the Braves had Smoltz and Hudson both healthy because Jair will still be affordable and under the Braves’ control after 2010.
By TennesseePaul
October 30, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this
EFrim: FA is a b!tch is it not? I read someone toss out the Maglio/Verlander deal and that sounded pretty cool. Verlander would be iffy coming off this season, but I think he’d be worth the risk. Plug in Verlander, Camps, Jurrjens and Peavy. I’ll take that rotation. I don’t expect to win it all next year, but with that rotation and then Mags and Chipper in the line up, it’d be one helluva show. Probably get the team into October… maybe. Who knows. Toss in a possible muligan by Glavine and Smoltz…
By Wayne
October 30, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
10Paul Are you hearing from anywhere legit that Verlander can be had? I would be shocked to see that. Mags is a different story.
If we end up doing the Peavy deal and Greene is a throw in, and then go after Mags, that would be 11 + 6.5+ 18 = 35.5 million. Add in Ohman for say 3 million, and what would we have left to add any additional starter???
By brent a.
October 30, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
Is there anyone who actually lives here in Atlanta who does not believe that professional sports are huge here?
By TommyP
October 30, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul: Can you (or anyone for that matter) explain how we’re going to have enough prospects to acquire Jake Peavy, Magglio Ordonez AND Justin Verlander????????????????
By brent a.
October 30, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this
Or to re-phrase, is there anyone who does not find that professional sports are hugely popular with local residents?
By bruce
October 30, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
Just a thought about Philly fans… I see being there next season wearing braves t-shirt and hat and many will hurl ridicule, here is a response, “World Champs and still no class”…that is a World Class inferiority complex. Or, now see if you can get 12 more in a row
The only upside I have thought of so far of TB losing the series is the Yankee and Sox fans can’t complain that they lost to the champs… gives their whining a bit more light.
By Wayne
October 30, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
bruce Besides the fact that I don’t like the Phillies due to our rivarly, otherwise, there are some players on their team and their manager I respect.
The biggest downer about them winning the series is that it just fortifies the “East Coast” is the only real place where baseball is meaningful amongst some of the media.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 30, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this
Bruce “World Champs and still no class”
How true.
I just saw on TV where a bunch of Filly Fans got arrested for riots after the game. They showed ‘em jumping over fire, rocking a news truck back and forth…
I mean, really. There is no point to that at all. Ugh…grow up, people.
And I’m not sayin’ this ‘cause I’m jealous of their title. There’s never a time that calls for that kind of behavior. I mean, what the heck does jumping over fire or rocking a news truck back and forth prove?
Haha! And FillyFanDan called me and idiot for asking a harmless, just-to-be-goofy question…
Bruce—
Not a bad upside, either. I think that’s about the only one there is. Be careful when you go to games up there!
By Braveheart
October 30, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
It wouldn’t make sense to trade Jair for Jake if the Braves had Smoltz and Hudson both healthy because Jair will still be affordable and under the Braves’ control after 2010.
Daybed Smoltz, Hudson, Peavy and Hanson for the entire 2009 season and an October. Think about that rotation. That’s likely a World Series winning rotation right there.
Smoltz, Hudson, Jair, Hanson? Maybe but your chances aren’t anywhere near as good as they would be with Jake instead of Jair. Club control and bang for the buck means nothing if the guy you’re getting is the difference between being a mere contender and a world champion.
Hanley Ramirez brings more value, club control and bang for the buck than Josh Beckett but do you think the Red Sox really care? Josh Beckett won them a World Series.
By Bobby's Cox
October 30, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this
DOB,
It was nice to see your response on “that Nelson dude”.
I agree it would be a risk, but for those ‘08 numbers, I’d be willing to take that risk. Based on the past few seasons, I can see how the Braves may be a little risk averse. Maybe if the RF weren’t as risky they could take a shot on him.
It’s always fun to speculate.
By Braveheart
October 30, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
Former Atlanta Brave Andruw Jones would like to come back home. “I’ve got one more year in my contract,” said Jones, now playing with the L.A. Dodgers. “Hopefully, I can come back to Atlanta. I would love to finish my career here.” Jones’ first year with the Dodgers ended early. He was moved to the 60-day disabled list on Sept. 13, after hitting .158 with three homers and 76 strikeouts in 209 at-bats. “I’ve been rehabbing, working out again,” he said. “I feel good.” Jones and wife Nicole have continued to make metro Atlanta their home. They’re gearing up for this year’s “Fairway Affair,” the gala they host each year to support Jaden’s Ladder. The organization serves survivors of domestic violence.
http://www.ajc.com/living/content/shared-blogs/ajc/social/
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
October 30, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, I don’t know whether Pat Burrell will or won’t be with the Phillies next season and neither do you.
I do know he just won the World Series with them, I do know he has played his entire career with Philadelphia, I do know he wants to stay and I do know the Phillies view his presence as critical to their ability to repeat.
That said, he is going to be expensive but not much more than the 14 million he earned this year. The Phillies are going to have first say in whether or not Burrell returns to the city of brotherly love. We will just have to wait and see what transpires.
The Phillies odds of repeating as division champs are high, but repeating as World Champions?
The answer: How many times has it happened in the modern era since 1969.
Oakland in 72-73-74
Cincinnati in 75-76
Yankees in 77-78
Blue Jays in 92-93
Yankees in 98-99-2000.
That’s five teams in 40 years. Odds are 1 in 8 for repeating and 1 in 20 for the trifecta.
By Wayne
October 30, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this
WW I read the article from the AJC living section (linked to the sports page). If Andruw truly believes he has any chance of getting back to Atlanta to actually play baseball, then he is certainly not a smart man.
I mean, can you believe it??? Did he state how much weight he had lost on his current rehab????
Priceless…
By Daybed Wagmoe
October 30, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this
Braveheart — Yes, that rotation for all of ‘09 would be a strong possible rotation to win the WS, but there are a couple of wildcards in there. Still playing along with the notion that Smoltz didn’t have injury problems this year, you can’t count on him to be healthy all year while being one year older. Peavy’s elbow issues could manifest this year and sideline him for a while. Hanson could have a start to his career similar to Smoltz, Glavine or Maddux. On paper it looks like a great rotation, but many thought that a rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Hampton and Jurrjens for ‘08 could lead the team to a World Series.
In the scenario you’re proposing, you’d have Smoltz, Hudson, Peavy, and Hanson in 09. I’m not so sure about what 2010 and after would look like, but I’d be a lot more confident about 2010 and after if the rotation had both Jurrjens and Hanson in it once Smoltz and Hudson are gone.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 30, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this
Oakland in 72-73-74
Was that the “Big Green Machine”?
Night, all.
By brian
October 30, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
If Griffey is willing to take a short contract and of course at a big pay cut, the Braves should consider Griffey for LF maybe platooning him some with Diaz or with the Rangers minor league OF should they go that way.
By brian
October 30, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
If Griffey is willing to take a short contract and of course at a big pay cut, the Braves should consider Griffey for LF maybe platooning him some with Diaz or with the Rangers minor league OF should they go that way.
By Wayne
October 30, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
McFann They were affectionately referred to as “The Swinging A’s”
brian Unless we can pull the trigger on someone better, then I would love to have Junior for 1 year at a reasonable price.
Besides, I do not expect the Braves to make it to October next year, unless many things fall into place.
By Salty Dawg
October 30, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this
Is there anyone who actually lives here in Atlanta who does not believe that professional sports are huge here?
Me. The difference between Atlanta and some of the more dedicated pro sports cities is that fans in those cities are fanatical whether the teams win or lose. Once the Braves are out of contention (and often when they are still in contention) attendance is sparse as most “fans” lose interest. Same case with the Falcons and lets not forget the Hawks. Chicago, New York, Philly, etc. are all cities where the fans show up not just because the teams are winning, but because they are fans. It makes me sick to go to a Braves or Falcons game and have to listen to the opponent’s fans out cheering the home team fans. Go to a UGA game and see what fan support is all about.
By Lew
October 30, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this
Are y’all seriously surprised that Burnett and Lowe will go for $16 mil per season? Ted Freaking Lilly went for $15 mil two years ago. Told you $40 mil just doesn’t go as far as it used to. Now you see why I don’t think Ordonez is a viable acquisition if we’re going to pick up two top rotation pitchers. You just can’t do it on our budget-not to mention what we’d have to trade..
By Salty Dawg
October 30, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this
If Griffey is willing to take a short contract and of course at a big pay cut, the Braves should consider Griffey for LF maybe platooning him some with Diaz or with the Rangers minor league OF should they go that way.
The Braves don’t need another stop gap outfielder, especially not an aging one on the tail end of his career. They need a reliable, long-term player that can provide power. The only logical reason to sign a one year player is as a bridge to a minor league prospect or to help with a playoff push. I like Jr as much as the next fan, but the time for him to wear a Braves uni has passed.
By BosnianBaller
October 30, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this
I know the Braves have way more important positions to fill,but what about adding Chad Cordero to the bullpen.He is a FA and would give us a solid arm out of the pen if he can stay healthy.
By Salty Dawg
October 30, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this
If Andruw truly believes he has any chance of getting back to Atlanta to actually play baseball, then he is certainly not a smart man.
I mean, can you believe it??? Did he state how much weight he had lost on his current rehab????
In his picture he actually looked pretty lean. My guess is that he finally realized he was going to have to listen to reason if he wants to get his career back on track. I don’t think he will ever have another 40+ homer season, but it’s not unrealistic to think he can fix his swing and be an above average OF again.
By Jeff R
October 30, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t rush Hanson to the majors. Give the guy a chance to gain more experience in the minors. Isn’t he slated to start the ‘09 season at Mississippi? Why rush him along?
If Wren can lock down Peavy, he’s then committed to finding another soild arm to add to the rotation. So, again, if all goes well, 1-3 in the rotation will be tight. 4-5 are up for grabs, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see Hampton back and Morton, provided he’s not dealt, rounding out the rotation. Hudson may rehab faster than anticipated and be back by midsummer. Yet another option if 4-5 starters aren’t delivering. Not at all bad for ‘09.
Rather give the top prospects time to develop; that includes Schafer. I think Anderson and Blanco can capably handle duties in CF until ‘10.
By Brian
October 30, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
Braveheart- Andruw is almost a sad story, isn’t he? I don’t know anyone who doesn’t like him, but something major would have to happen for him to be back. The only way I see it happening is if we get a major bat for LF and/or trade away Schafer,Anderson, and maybe Blanco, because obviously Hernandez is a few yrs away. Kotsay might even be over Andruw comimg back.
By Salty Dawg
October 30, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this
DOB- You may have already discussed this, but from what you have heard is there any thought within the org that Shafer might be ready to move up in the Spring?
By Braveheart
October 30, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
Chicago, New York, Philly, etc. are all cities where the fans show up not just because the teams are winning, but because they are fans.
Not really true. Yankees didn’t really draw until 1996. Steinbrenner always threatened to leave the South Bronx because it was a common belief that they would never be able to average more than 30,000 fans a game in that neighborhood. Attendance at Shea drops when they stink. Attendance at MSG ain’t what it was for the Knicks in the Ewing years. St. Johns can’t sell out MSG like they did in the Chris Mullin years. When the Giants and Jets stink, it is sold out but you see as many Cowboys or Steelers fans in Giants Stadium as Giants and Jets fans. Trust me on that. It was horrible in the 90s Dan Reeves years to listen to the freaking “Moooooooooooooose” thing in Giants Stadium whenever Moose Johnston did anything.
By brent a.
October 30, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this
Salty Dawg
You focused your answer strictly on the local sports teams. There are many, many more professional sports teams, than just those that are Atlanta based.
To go along with what Braveheart said, professional sports are wildly popular in Atlanta. This is a major city in a sports-crazed country.
It’s just that our local sports teams are not over-all, wildly popular with the local populace.
By TennesseePaul
October 30, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this
There is an unspecified amount of cashing coming into the payroll. Or so we’ve been told. Of course, that unspecified amount could be a negative number. Real sly of them to do it that way…
Any way, just got off the phone with Towers and Drombowski. They seem to agree that it could be done with Khalil going to Detroit along with a pitcher (Morton Dave was hinting at). San Diego was interested in a few high grade prospects, but I think I got him down to a few second level guys Yunel, and a bag of balls. At any rate the Braves would get Peavy and Mags as well as Verlander. Oh yeah, they also said McCann had to sport the beard all season. Said he looked to good in it to not keep it.
By Saltywoody
October 30, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
MUSIC QUESTION for everyone.
I’ve gotten really into the Black Keys in the last few months…mostly stuff off Rubber Factory and earlier tunes.
Question is does anyone know other bands that are similar stylistically? AKA sort of minimalistic, heavy, raw blues. Just can’t get enough of it.
And, on the entirely other end of the spectrum, I’ve also been listening to a lot of Jose Gonzalez and Nick Drake to balance it out. So recommendations on the acoustic/folksy side of things are welcomed as well.
Figured this would be a good place to ask.
By justdoit
October 30, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this
how about (1) trade for Peavy -(2)trade for Josh Willingham & Scott Olsen - (3)Sign Dunn or Burell (4) sign Penny. thats what? 3 pitchers and 2 outfielders for under 40m?something like 35m? play francour in center and if he continues his slump we could still have JS ready in the minors if we dont trade him and Josh in right and that would also leave plenty of money for smoltz and hampton. 1 - Peavy 2 - Jair 3 - Penny 4 - Hampton 5 - Olsen and would be awesome to have smoltz healthy back in that rotation 1 - eco 2 - kelly 3 - chipper 4 - FA 5 - mac 6 - willingham 7 - kotch 8 - frechy pretty good looking lineup in my eyes. thoughts?
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
October 30, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this
Coco Crisp?
The cereal man plays all three OF spots, can lead off, is younger than Mark Kotsay without the back issues, switch hits and his defense ain’t bad either.
He is affordable at 5.75 million for 2009. His 2010 contract is for 8 million with a 0.5M buyout.
His 162 game avg. : 605 at bats, 90 runs, 12 HR’s, 65 RBI, 26 stolen bases, .280 BA and .331 OBP.
If the Red Sox have an interest in bringing Kotsay back for the 2009 season , they just might put Crisp on the trade table. That’s if, might and maybe. But worth looking into.
By Brian
October 30, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this
justdoit- Put down the pipe! Besides, it’s Thursday night, at least hold off your addiction for the weekend!
By brian
October 30, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
Salty - we need a bat for a 1-2 year stopgap until Schafer, Hernandez, and Heyward are ready especially if one of the first two are not dealt. As far as a playoff push next year, I believe Wren, Cox, etc believe that the Braves will make a playoff push next year. Otherwise why try to add 2 arms to the starting rotation versus letting the youngsters start. The reason he wants 2 starters such as Peavy and Lowe is that he believes with 2 starters and a bat in LF the Braves will be serious contenders NEXT YEAR
By brian
October 30, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
Salty - we need a bat for a 1-2 year stopgap until Schafer, Hernandez, and Heyward are ready especially if one of the first two are not dealt. As far as a playoff push next year, I believe Wren, Cox, etc believe that the Braves will make a playoff push next year. Otherwise why try to add 2 arms to the starting rotation versus letting the youngsters start. The reason he wants 2 starters such as Peavy and Lowe is that he believes with 2 starters and a bat in LF the Braves will be serious contenders NEXT YEAR
By David O'Brien
October 30, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this
Saltywoody, if you’re heavy into the Black Keys these days (and good for you, because they do bring it hard and true), I assume you’ve got their Thickfreakness and The Big Come Up CDs, and for even more straight-ahead blues, their Chulahoma CD, which is their cover versions of songs by the great Junior Kimbrough. (You said you had Rubber Factory, so I needn’t recommend that. If you don’t have those others, I’d strongly recommend them).
For bands that sound something like the Keys, try the Soledad Brothers and either of Jack White’s bands, the White Stripes and the Raconteurs.
And to go back a lot further, check into Cream’s classic stuff, and of course Hendrix and Led Zep (but I’m assuming you’ve already got plenty of that).
And if you like Nick Drake and Jose Gonzalez, if you dig him try anything by Iron & Wine (The Creek Drank The Cradle and Our Endless Numbered Days are a great CDs but my favorite might be the one Iron & Wine did with Calexico, In The Reins.
You should also try Elliott Smith (Figure 8, Either/Or, XO are all great) and anything by Jeff Buckley. Also, a couple of newer bands have that same sort of vibe, Fleet Foxes and Bon Iver. Both released their debuts in the past year, both excellent.
By mbatl
October 30, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this
Another strategy (not likely, but just for consideration):
Offer CC Sabathia 5/$120 mil (yes, that’s $24 mil per year);
trade a couple of mid-level guys (select 2 or 3 from Locke, Osuna, Medlen, Hicks, etc - hopefully keeping Rorhbough out of the deal) for Magglio Ordonez (that’s $16 mil for 3 years);
and then trade something like Flowers and Prado to FL for Scott Olsen (average for ‘09-‘11, maybe $5 mil/year?). (that’s probably too much to give, btw)
Don’t sign Glavine. Use the $5 mil or so saved on the Tex trade to sign Hampton for one year, with a nice option based on innings pitched.
You’ve spent $45 mil per year (cancelling the Tex savings vs. the Hampton signing); within budget, solved the pitching and left field problems. And have all the untouchables on board.
Rotation: Sabathia, Jurjenns, Olsen, Hampton and then Campillo/Morton/Hanson (with Redmon/Marek/Reyes/Bennet still in tow, and Hudson coming back late ‘09 or 2010);
Lineup: Schafer, KJ, CJ, Maggs, McCann, Escobar, Kotchman, Frenchy
‘Pen: Gonzo, Soriano, Smotlz, Moylan, Acosta, fill-in-the-rest…
Bench: well, don’t know ‘bout that - whoever is left!
I know it’s BS, but just thinking out loud about life without a Jake Peavy deal.
By David O'Brien
October 30, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this
Lew, I also find it a bit puzzling that so many people seem surprised at the going rate for the few proven free-agent pitchers that are out there. It’s a small pool, so of course the price is higher than it might be if there were a dozen of them instead of a handful.
But beyond that, the salary escalation of the past couple years shows no sign of slowing, after that brief period we had a few years back of fiscal sanity. With baseball revenues at all-time highs the past couple years, and everyone aware of that, contracts keep getting handed out.
I know some here predicted recently that the economy would have a direct effect on baseball. Well, maybe it will at the box office next year, but I’m afraid it’s not going to have any effect whatsoever on the contracts that are handed out to free agents this winter — guaranteed contracts, I might add.
By Matt the Brave
October 31, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this
DOB: I know that the Braves won’t make an official statement about Andruw wanting to come back to the Braves, but do you think that it would be a possibility if the Dodgers were to pay most of his salary? The only thing that I worry about is that his bat speed has slowed greatly over the last two years, and I think that he would be better suited to play left field at this point…any ideas?
Also, I saw that Renteria is going to be allowed to walk. Do you think that this might make an impact on the Braves giving up a middle infielder for a trade for a proven pitcher?
Thanks!
By Saltywoody
October 31, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this
DOB
Thanks much for the recommendations. I figured you’d have a myriad of them.
I’ve got all three Keys albums you mentioned. Rubber Factory is a little more melodic to my ears and stands out among the others, though Thickfreakness and Come Up both have their standout tunes, as well.
And funny you mention Junior Kimbrough, as I was just reading about him and his influence on Auerbach (which is obvious once you listen to both) and making a note to go out and buy some of his stuff (want to see if I can get it as a used store, as opposed to paying full whack on itunes). Near as I can tell, Sad Days, Lonely Nights and All Night Long appear to be the must haves, though I’m open for recommendations.
I already listen to much of the White Stripes stuff, though I’ll need to check out the Rancoteurs since I haven’t listened to them much. And I’ll definitely be looking at the others, as well.
For whatever reason, Elliot Smith doesn’t quite float my boat…but I’ll be sure to look into Buckley and Iron & Wine.
You know, it’s weird. I’ve been playing guitar for about ten years now and have always tried to expand my musical ear and listen to stuff a little out of my talent and tastes, I guess to keep from getting musically claustrophobic.
But, maybe three months ago, something clicked in me and I’ve gone straight back to very minimalistic, almost plain rock and blues. Not necessarily really complicated stuff. But there’s something about the bare, grating nature of a lot of these guys’ voices and guitars that I can’t get enough of. Something about their simplicity is speaking so much more to me these days. (I readily admit that Nick Drake seems to be the anomaly here, though his orchestral songwriting has something that’s speaking to me too).
Anyway, I digress.
Thanks for the advice. This all should keep me busy for a while.
By rainman34
October 31, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this
I would love to see us go after juan rivera for left field maybe 6 mill a year then go hard after aj and peavy. i like greens power so adding esco wouldnt kill me. i think esco, grokey, joe joe, brandon jones and flowers should do it. i hate to lose flowers but to get jake and not lose any of our top guys would be a great move.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
October 31, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this
Just one day after the WS is in the books and the hot stove league is off and running. the Marlins/Royals trade is already done with more to follow.
Three Braves have declared free agency. Ohman, Norton and Taverez. I say yea on the first two and nay on the last name unless he would accept a minor league deal.
By N Nine
October 31, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this
Why do people bring up Rent-aria every other day? Detroit gave 3 million dollars for him to leave. I don’t want to say the guy is done but come on, its time to move on…
The opt out clause players add to contracts are brilliant for the players. Giving the player two chances to head into FA with solid numbers. A.J. Burnett just opted out coming off a good year. Its nice for the player and sometimes inconvenient for the team. If A.J. sucked this year he would have stayed but now he wants more years and dollars. Wonder if Boras invented that idea…wouldn’t surprise me at all.
Coach..Coco? Are you Loco? Why TRADE for a bad player? Heck, Langerhans is available!
By uga-brave
October 31, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this
DOB,
sorry i have not pulled my weight lately.
braveheart said it was not the same without uga-brave’s overnight rants and scoots opening 6 A.M. post.
gotta admit after the dawgs sanded LSU i ended up in winston salem.
started the day at locos in buckhead, went and saw my wife at the penn st. bar in tocco hills. they beat ohio state.
next thing i know i am sitting next to J.D. at hooters.
big john and i sat there for almost a day and half.
of course if you know anything about big john, he still thinks HOOTY AND THE BLOWFISH are the best band in america.
i at least soberered up enough to figure out i was out of my element.
as i was standing on i-85 yesterday hitchiking, i was lucky enough to encounter KNOWSHON’S relatives, who were coming down from new jersey.
they were on their way of course to jacksonville.
been a long week.
go dawgs. go s&p 500.
my advice to all that read this story is avoid john daly.
By Kentavo
October 31, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this
Hey Saltywoody, if you’re looking for some minimalist rock, you could try:
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
October 31, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this
Um, did N Nine skip the entire 2008 season?
Coco Crisp actually had a better overall season than Mark Kotsay did. I rest my case. Frank Wren can mail me my check.
There has been a Wal Mart sighting!
Aaron Rowand was spotted in the womens lingerie section wearing a kick me t-shirt and spank me underwear.
By Saltywoody
October 31, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this
Kentavo-
Appreciate it, man. I was just checking out the Raconteurs and like ‘em a lot.
Listened to Local H and Jonathan Richman, too, and they’re both pretty cool.
Funny, though, that the Stripes and the Keys both still seem to top a lot of others. Maybe a testament to their awesomeness. But they’re just a little harder than some of the others mentioned. Harder not in a Metallica sense, but just a little more raw is the best way I can describe it. Guess I’m just partial to Auerbach’s vocals and White’s guitar.
By Saltywoody
October 31, 2008 12:55 AM | Link to this
I take that back, Local H is pretty gruff.
They’ve got a little Nirvana thing going on.
By N Nine
October 31, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this
Coach
You crack me up! You do. Your right Coco is the power OF that Wren should be looking for. This guy will fit in between Chipper and McCann just fine. .283 with 7HR..SOLID. And yes, This was his “rebound” year. You changed my mind.
He did have 8 points higher in BA and pounded ONE more HR than our friend Kotzi..
sorry i have not pulled my weight lately Uga-Brave
Has been an off week for you. No stock talks? We’ll forgive you and we won’t expect too much from you next week, when/IF UGA finishes off Gators again…
By uga-brave
October 31, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this
N Nine,
you and N8 have very simmilar monikers.
hint, coach does not really crack anyone up.
think the yankees coach, in the bad news bears.
think the coach in the bad coach uniform.
think about him in those tight bike coaching shorts.
By uga-brave
October 31, 2008 1:49 AM | Link to this
as much as i somehow respect coach’s blogs
he always wanted greg norton. he was right greg norton is a great pinch hitter.
cant help but thinking the coach looks like VIC MORROW, in the bad news bears.
he is the coach of the yankees in that great movie.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
October 31, 2008 2:00 AM | Link to this
Coco Crisp is no slugger. He is the ideal fourth outfielder/spot starter who can lead off and help the Braves with his versatility much like Omar Infante did this year.
I hate those bike shorts. Nothing but the full uni and spikes for this old goat. Think Walter Matthau although I don’t drink anymore but still cuss like a drunk sailor!
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
October 31, 2008 2:35 AM | Link to this
Well, here it is. An in your face, no holds barred look at the state of the Atlanta Braves starting pitching. The weak stomached should look away. No bull, no opinion, just an ugly reality check.
Jair Jurrjens: 2nd year pitcher, solid young righty with great potential. Has an idea of what he is doing and is very poised on the mound.
Jorge Campillo: 30 year old rookie recycled from the Mexican league. Great control, soft stuff with no velocity. Has trouble fooling big league hitters with his junk.
Jo-Jo Reyes: the young lefty has a live arm. Is inconsistent, wild and has problems with his control. A real head case.
Mike Hampton: Shocked the baseball world by making 13 starts and pitching well. He is a pending free agent who’s future is an unknown.
Charlie Morton: Potential dominant starter. But lacks the mental toughness needed to match his talent. The young right hander has much to prove.
Tom Glavine: Hall of Fame lefty lefty coming off elbow surgery. Pending free agent. His future is uncertain.
John Smoltz: Hall of Fame right hander coming off shoulder surgery. Pending free agent. It’s unknown if and when he will pitch again.
Tim Hudson: Staff ace recovering from T.J surgery. Is expected to return in August of 2009. Won’t be at full speed until 2010.
Chuck James: Shoulder surgery, out indefinitely, return to form is an unknown.
Jeff Bennett: Potential fifth starter. More suited to the bullpen or spot starting.
Anthony Lerew: Made his return from T.J surgery, pitched in the minors and is expected to pitch in spring training.
James Parr: Spot starter with soft stuff. Fifth starter or long reliever at best.
Tommy Hansen: Great talent, Ideal pitchers frame. Still in AA. dominating in the AFL which is considered a hitters league. Will get a long look in spring training.
By uga-brave
October 31, 2008 2:35 AM | Link to this
good comeback coach.
i still love the coach. you are a great blogger.
tell me this, what is
the value of our great right fielder?
if he panics and has a slow start next year what happens?
we traded away laroche when he was arb eligible.
that after a 30 90 rbi season.
so if the french hits 25 90 do we offer him arbitration?
we traded laroche after a nice season.
big decisions right?
cant trade the golden boy, but we traded laroche with better numbers.
time to think the front offfice is committed to francoeur, either he adds up or he makes some in this franchise look like the idiots that run the atlanta spirit.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
October 31, 2008 3:35 AM | Link to this
OK UGA-Brave. I just spent almost half an hour digging through the blogs to find this post from September , now I’m behind on my check list and paper work.
September 26, 2008 4:12 AM | Link to this
Concerning Jeff Francoeur, I’m gonna be brutally honest.
He is a great athlete, works hard and has the right attitude as long as his foot isn’t in his mouth. His arm is probably the best in the N.L. among all right fielders. His natural talent makes Jeff a phenom in every sense of the word.
Now for the flip side.
The youngster relies far to much on his athleticism. He has little idea of the strike zone and almost no discipline at the plate except when runners are on base and the bases loaded thing has fried Francoeur mentally.
His ceiling is right around an OPS of .800, which is very pedestrian for an outfielder. Jeff’s range is limited as he does not run well because of his ankle. He doesn’t have one damn clue how to read a pitcher in order to successfully steal second base.
The metal aspect of the game has proved to be beyond his reach thus far. Jeff could benefit from watching a lot more game tape. Opposing pitchers have him figured out and have learned to exploit his lack of knowledge of the strike zone.
I still have to question his eye sight. An optometrist said it’s fine, but his adding the toe tap as a timing mechanism has me wondering otherwise.
Francouer’s 4/1 strike out/walk ratio is horrible and Frenchy’s power numbers are almost as bad.
In 2006, he had 59 extra base hits in 651 at bats.
Again, in 2007 59 extra base hits in 642 at bats.
So far in 2008, 45 extra base hits in 585 at bats.
So , I have come to the conclusion, if he isn’t traded in the off season and performs roughly the same in 2009, Francouer’s career as a Brave will likely end after next year.
By Efrim
October 31, 2008 6:48 AM | Link to this
I am not suprised to see that AJ Burnett and Derek Lowe want that money. Not at all.
But I will be suprised to see Frank Wren offer that kind of contract to a free agent pitcher. I really will be.
Since our needs are two starting pitchers, and a corner OF, and Frank Wren has already said that he won’t trade the elite group of prospects, the Braves are most likely going to have to fill one of those starting pitching voids with a free agent. So for arguments sake, lets say Wren trades for Peavy and signs Oliver Perez for 15 a year. That’s 26 million eaten up for next season. But we do have our 2 starters and still have 14 million for a corner OF. Still not sold that the Braves will go sign Will Ohman. I see a trade for a lefty reliever.
By Eware
October 31, 2008 7:32 AM | Link to this
Hey DOB, are you hearing anything about the Braves negotiating a contract with Greg Norton? I’d hate to see him leave…
By Dadgum
October 31, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this
The more I think about Griffey the more it makes sense to try and sign him. His 16 mil option was not picked up by Chicago meaning basically that he will get far less on the open market given his age and numbers. He will give you 20+ homers and about a .250-.275 BA next year. More importantly it appears he is pretty durable now as he only missed about 20 games at 38 years old. My guess is that he will get about 8 mil next year from somebody. Having Griffey play LF, Shafer CF, and Francouer RF ain’t too bad. Just a thought.
Rock on……remembering Steppenwolf. Hey Lawdy Momma.
By Matt the Brave
October 31, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this
Nine, I bring up Renteria because he’s a darn good NL hitter. Yes, Detroit cut him, but it was the same reason why the Red Sox were so ready to get rid of him. He’s only 33, and he would make a pretty darn good second baseman still. Also, his average and his spark in the clubhouse would help with this young team. Don’t shoot down an idea because you are too dim to look deeper than just Detroit let him go.
By Shaun
October 31, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
Opposing pitchers have him figured out and have learned to exploit his lack of knowledge of the strike zone.
His on-base has never been above .338 in a season and his BB rate has never been above 6.1 percent of his plate appearances. Over the last three years his walk rate is 10th worst in the majors. Seems pitchers have always exploited his lack of discipline.
By DAP
October 31, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this
MLB trade rumors says that the padres will most likely pick up brian giles’ $9mil option. maybe the braves could get him in a deal for peavy?
giles would have to waive his no trade, but if he would, we would have a very good on base guy for 2009 to bat 2nd in front of chipper. if we cant get a guy who will hit 30 homers, a guy who will get on base at a .400 clip will be a nice alternative.
By Random
October 31, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this
Wayne: “Does anybody know what happened to Bannister in KC and Hill in Chicago this past year? They had breakthrough seasons in ‘07, but flopped this year.”
Check out Joe Posnanski’s blog for info on Bannister — he’s been following him closely this season.
Here’s a small excerpt:
“Banny has tried everything he can think to try. Readers here know how intensely he breaks down the statistics. He had a fine year in 2007, but his study of the numbers told him that, yes, he was lucky. So through this rough year, he has concluded at different times that he needs to: (1) Strike out more batters; (2) Get more ground balls; (3) Conceal the ball better pitching out of the stretch; (4) Develop his two-seam fastball; (5) Slow down his curve; (6) Lower his arm angle; (7) Be more unpredictable; (8) Change his change-up; (9) Throw higher in the zone; (10) Throw down in the zone more; (11) Take confidence from the good things; (12) Try not to think about the good things; (13) Change lots and lots of other stuff.”
By Lew
October 31, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this
Efrim-I’m troubled about the cost of Peavy and another (possibly Free Agent pitcher)-both in terms of $$$$ and kids we give up. Maybe the better road to travel would be to forget Peavy (yes, I can hear the hue and cry and I know all the arguments and his election to Studhhood, but….), sign Lowe or Burnett (money about the same-maybe a bit more for 09 over JP) and do a deal with the Marlins for Olsen and possibly Willingham. That way we have improved the rotation for about $16 mil (plus what ever Olsen costs in arbitration) and a lot less loss of personnel than would be the case if we traded for Peavy. It should also leave enough for signing Ohman and Norton.
I’m thinking that a rotation of Burnett/Lowe, Jurrjens, Olsen, Hampton, and Morton/Hanson with Campillo/Bennett/Carlyle on deck as spot starters/long relievers would work pretty well. Maybe this would not be the optimum rotation, but like Braveheart said yesterday, the loss of Hudson was devastating and this would be quite an improvement-especially if we could get some help from Smoltz and/or Glavine as well.
Coach-Glad to hear your stance on those Bike shorts. I was getting a picture of you like the Coach character on Mad TV. That was scary. I can live with the Walter Matthau look. It doesn’t freak out the imagination quite as badly.
By Shaun
October 31, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this
Dadgum, Griffey should not play against lefty pitchers and at this point in his career he’s slightly above a league average hitter, which isn’t good for a corner outfielder.
He wouldn’t be a bad option as a lefty-hitting part of a corner outfield platoon. But I don’t know about $8 million.
By Lew
October 31, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
Shaun-I’ve always wondered about that statement myself-no matter who made it. If the pitchers in the NL took over two and a half years to figure out Frenchy was a free swinger with little plate discipline then they were dumb as bags of rocks. I think that was something we all were aware of before Sports Illustrated ever debuted him as a Cover Model.
Coach-If all he’d seen was an Optometrist, I’d be skeptical, too. I would bet you anything he saw an Opthalmologist. If not, someone in the Braves’ organization needs to learn the difference. Maybe it’s the same person who keeps insisting on the cheap, less definitive MRI’s.
By Efrim
October 31, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
Dadgum
I have to disagree on Junior. I would not be okay with him playing LF for the Braves next season. At least not in a full time role. He hit 272/379/462 against righties last year. So there may be some use for him playing LF against righties, although considering his age and injury history, I would much rather look for other options. Even if it means making a trade for someone like Josh Willingham.
By Efrim
October 31, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
Lew
sign Lowe or Burnett (money about the same-maybe a bit more for 09 over JP) and do a deal with the Marlins for Olsen and possibly Willingham. That way we have improved the rotation for about $16 mil (plus what ever Olsen costs in arbitration) and a lot less loss of personnel than would be the case if we traded for Peavy.
Agree 100%. Although I am not sure if we can nab Willingham AND Olsen in the same trade. That might get pricey in terms of prospects. I like Olsen though. So maybe grab Olsen and go after a different corner OF bat. Or maybe grab Willingham and go after a different young starter type.
I know Edwin Jackson’s stats don’t look great, but I bet you he would do a lot better moving over from the AL East to the NL East. Probably miss more bats, maybe get luckier. Could be a real good pickup.
By Wes
October 31, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
Hey DOB, I keep reading that Josh Willingham would be out there. The kid’s from Florence Alabama, has to be a Braves fan as a kid, are they considering him?
By Shaun
October 31, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
Lew, yes, Francoeur has been a pretty easy out since he came up, pitchers didn’t “just figure him out.” But no one noticed that he was an easy out before this season because things like RBI and batting average are generally overvalued.
Regarding his eye-sight, his walk rate as the same in 2008 as it was in 2007, and in both years his walk rates were higher than his career walk rate. His strikeout rate in 2008 was lower than it’s been in any season. Given that info, I have a hard time believing his eyesight was more of a problem in 2008.
His walk and K rates were a problem in 2008, I’m not denying that. But they weren’t any more a problem in 2008 as they were in his previous seasons. Again, he’s always been undisciplined. In fact he was slightly more disciplined in 2008 than he’s ever been.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 31, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
Wayne—
Ah: The Swinging A’s!
Lew Ted Freaking Lilly went for $15 mil two years ago.
“Ted Freaking Lilly”…Good one. Dang, but he bugs me!
By Random
October 31, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
nolie: “I see that Tazawa was not drafted by a Japanese club, so he should be free to sign with an American club if I understand it right”
That’s also my understanding — if he’d been drafted and entered the NPB, it’d’ve been nine years before he could become a free agent.
Here’s a Boston Herald article on Tazawa’s non-selection.
Kind of weird — as someone on Baseball Musings put it: “Imagine a US high school star asking not to be drafted by major league teams so he could sign with one as a free agent!”
By Efrim
October 31, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
Rosenthal has a new article up:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8741126/Baseball-needs-to-work-on-its-calendar?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49
If the Padres want 5 players back for Jake Peavy, why in the world would you go to the Cubs? They are about 3 players short of offering a reasonable package. Vitters, Pie, ……, ……., and …… And if they want to trade him within their division, go right ahead. They are even thinking of trying to get the Yankees involved.
But of course, as so many Padres fans suggest, “we don’t have to trade him”. Right. Sure you don’t. Wren should stand firm and wait for Towers/Depodesta/Alderson to lower their demands.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 31, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this
Efrim—
Thanks for the Rosenthal article. Int’resting stuff.
And how ‘bout this line: Commissioner Bud Selig has indicated a willingness to scale back to 154 games, but the owners do not want to lose any regular-season revenue.
Uh-huh. Of course! It’s all about the money…the doggone money!
I wouldn’t be opposed to 154 games (wouldn’t be opposed to ditching the WBC, either). Then they wouldn’t have to end the playoffs so freaking close to November.
Also I wouldn’t be opposed to shortening ST a little—that would be the best thing IMHO…
By Steve from OH
October 31, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Here’s a little Tim Kurkjian on “will Peavy be traded?”:
*By all accounts, yes. The Padres are really bad right now; they need to do a four-for-one trade and attempt to move forward. Plus, getting rid of Peavy’s huge contract will be important in the team’s progress. Peavy has great stuff and loves to compete, but he is such a maximum-effort guy that he rarely throws more than seven innings (no complete games in his Cy Young season in 2007) and often reaches 100 pitches in the fifth inning.
Peavy has a no-trade clause. He can choose where he wants to go. The Cardinals are an option, but they haven’t shown significant interest. The Braves are an option, but they don’t appear willing to trade their best young players. The Astros are an option, but there’s a question about how much young talent they have available in trade. One way or another, Peavy will go.*
Efrim:
Totally agree that Wren needs to hold his ground. An offer of our second-tier guys might be the best one he gets.
By cooper
October 31, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
The Braves likely have $45mm to spend and if they can get a little goose to payroll to cover raises etc they can easily do the following:
Trade for Peavy & Greene (you will have to take him to minimize body count you have to give up for Peavy)
17.5mm for Peavy & Greene 15 mm for Burnett or Lowe (you can back load the deal with Burnett given his age so 09 salary could come in at 13-14) 10mm for Bradley LF (three year deal again you can back load it a bit) 4mm (Hampton - one year deal with incentive to 8mm) 3mm (Ohman for a two year deal)
49.5 million (we are over but you can factor in Hudson’s insurance to cover his salary which makes drifting past 45mm less painful).
Ohman at 3mm probably doesn’t work though I like the guy.
Hampton could get more on the open market so we may have to start at 5MM with incentives to 8-10mm
Peavy Burnett JJ Hampton Camp, Hanson, Glavine
Morton & JOJO likely get traded.
Great rotation and a power switch hitting LF who will be more spry in 09 since he is another year removed from his knee surgery.
By David O'Brien
October 31, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
MLB trade rumors says that the padres will most likely pick up brian giles’ $9mil option. maybe the braves could get him in a deal for peavy?
giles would have to waive his no tradeDAP
Keep in mind, he vetoed a trade to Boston last year when the Red Sox were in the middle of a pennant race.
Staying put in San Diego with his family appears to be first and foremost on his list of priorities.
By Efrim
October 31, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
Cooper
(we are over but you can factor in Hudson’s insurance to cover his salary which makes drifting past 45mm less painful).
I thought that the Braves would have to figure that out before the season? I am pretty sure they want Tim Hudson to pitch if at all possible.
By Lew
October 31, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
Shaun-I don’t think it’s so much that Jeff’s RBI overshadowed his out potential, but the fact he was so successful at driving in two out runs gave him a pass. It’s easy to accept flaws when you’re still productive. Last year there was no production, so we were much less forgiving of the outs.
Maybe it’s six of one half a dozen of the other. I’d still be happy if he drives in 100 again-makes the low .300 OBP much easier to accept. I’m still hopeful he will figure it out and maybe get a little more selective. Maybe he won’t, but I’m not ready to give up on him yet. He at least seems willing to work on it and that should give him an edge towards success-unlike Andruw’s stubborness. We all see where that got him.
By brent a.
October 31, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
But no one noticed that he was an easy out before this season because things like RBI and batting average are generally overvalued. Shaun
Two years ago, in particular, people were extremely aware that Francoeur was an easy out.
IIRC, someone wrote an article in SI, noting that JF was having the worst season of any major league outfileder (perhaps one of the worst in history), based upon his OBP, etc. So clearly, “someone” noticed.
That being said, Francoeur was worse than ever this year. Not only was he not getting on base, but he also didn’t have much pop in his bat.
What people were so disappointed in this year, was not simply how his totals compared to his historical averages; but rather, they were upset that he looked so hopelessly lost, one season after it appeared that he was starting to turn the corner.
2007 was a better year for Jeff than was 2006. But, 2008 was miserable; yet, going into this season, the fans expected Jeff to continue his 2007 improvement, but hit with more power, due largely to the extra work he had put in in the weight room in the off-season.
As it turned out, all that back fired, he looked heavy and slow, and couldn’t hit nor field.
He looked worse than the 2006 Jeff that people were so down on. That is why people were so disappointed.
While it may be true that fans expected too much from JF in 2008, based upon what he has shown us historically, fans were still aware of his penchant for making outs, going into this year. However, after his improvement last year, the hope/expectations were that he would continue to improve. That didn’t happen.
That doesn’t mean that no one knew about his history, it just meant that they were hopeful for continued development.
By DAP
October 31, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
DOB Staying put in San Diego with his family appears to be first and foremost on his list of priorities.
i remembered that he vetoed the trade to boston, but i was wondering the pads could say “accept the trade or we buy out your contract…” im not sure what order all that has to go in. like…do they have to exercise his option before trying to trade him or whatever…
even if they could use the buy out as leverage he might just take the buyout and go play with another california team for $9mil. just thinking out loud, really.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 31, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Oh, and let me go on record to say that I’m against the neutral sight for the World Series.
By DAP
October 31, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
guys, a very interesting free agent…bobby abreu. he is a great #3 hitter but he has a great balance of power, average, OBP and speed. he is also one of those guys who doesnt care if you are a lefty…he hits everyone. the yanks have a crowded outfield and might not be able to get him back…does abreu fit our needs and price range? i really dont know how much he would need…but im guessing it would be less than his 2008 $16mil salary.
By Shaun
October 31, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
McFann and Efrim, I just think baseball needs to do some practical things so the game makes since to the very casual baseball fan. Most casual fans just see baseball as more old fashioned, boring and the season as too long. Doing things to help the game and trying to make money aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive.
I think baseball should adjust the schedule to make sense. Right now one team may play a tougher schedule than another though they are battling for the same playoff spot. Most people who pay attention to baseball only in passing but are somewhat interested in the game probably just see a bunch of regular season games that don’t matter as much as a series in October.
The playoffs are watered down and therefore the regular season has less meaning. In my opinion, pennant races, particular ones between great teams, are what drives interest in regular season baseball. That doesn’t exist any more. In most years every team that is great is going to make the playoffs, so why watch late season games? There is maybe one game a year that would draw the interest of the folks who are only somewhat interested in the game. But going back to a two-division format for each league, people would pay attention to a lot more games down the stretch.
Also, since the playoffs are watered down, there is less interest it seems to me, especially in the first round. People are smart enough to realize that flukes happen in baseball in short series so the playoffs are less interesting if you have a relatively mediocre team with a decent shot at a World Series title. Going back to a two-division format for each league would help this problem as well.
I’m not saying this would make things perfect, just better. Obviously maybe interleague play would have to be scrapped. And with any divisional format, a team with an inferior record to another may make reach the playoffs when the better team is left out.
The things that seperates baseball from other sports is that a long season is more meaningful, more telling and can be as exciting as a playoff series.
I give Selig credit for trying three divisions and a Wild Card but I think it’s time to go back to two divisions.
By Random
October 31, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
“They were affectionately referred to as “The Swinging A’s””
Has anyone here heard of “The Sweet Bangin’ A’s” out of Chattanooga?
By Braveheart
October 31, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
Didn’t the Braves players let it be known the next spring training that they enjoyed no longer having Marcus Giles in their clubhouse? After the Braves had dumped him for having a bad year?
Obviously, getting rid of Marcus Giles was the right thing to do, but if you were Brian Giles why would you want to leave a town you love being in to go to work for an employer that fired your brother as soon as things got rough? Why would you leave a town you love being in to go work alongside co-workers that trashed your brother on the way out the door?
If I had no choice, I’d swallow my pride and take the job and paycheck. But given the choice, which Brian Giles has, I wouldn’t want to work for or with folks who did that to my brother…. and it wouldn’t matter to me how right they were about my brother. It’s still my damn brother.
By David O'Brien
October 31, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
Wes, I think Willingham is on the Braves’ board like just about anyone else who might be able to help the worst-hitting outfield in the NL last season. But I’ve heard concern this year, including from some with Marlins, about Willingham’s back. Some worries that he could have a chronic problem along the lines of Kotsay.
By cooper
October 31, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
I am not sure what the Braves are thinking about Hudson and 2009.
I get the sense that given Wren’s outlook on question mark players (due to injury etc) he is not relying on Hudson contributing in 09.
It would be risky to expect much from Hudson in 09 apart from a few September starts where he may only pitch 3-4 innings/game.
That is why a one year deal for Hampton makes sense. Assuming Hudson comes back ok Hampton would be a book mark for Hudson’s 2010 return.
That said if they sign two FOR starters who combined make say 25-30mm/year I don’t know how you fit Hudson in the mix in 2010 unless payroll is going up $10-15mm in 2010.
Imagine though (2010)
Peavy Hudson Burnett JJ Hanson
That is a OMG rotation.
By DAP
October 31, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
braveheart good point about giles.
By kdbanks
October 31, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
From MLBTradeRumors.com: Joe Cowley of the Sun-Times says trading starter Javier Vazquez is Williams’ top offseason priority. Cowley believes Williams could look for an infielder in return. Vazquez will earn $23MM over the next two seasons, and has a limited no-trade clause to block trades to NL and AL West teams.
If I remember correctly, Bobby Cox used to drool over this guy when he was with the Expos. This seems like the type of guy we might bring in. He’s very capable of giving you a 15-10 year, with 30+ starts and 200+ innings and an ERA under 4.00. If we can pull Peavy somehow, I think Vazquez would be a good complement. If the Pale Hose want an infielder, then they have to look at the Braves, right?
By DAP
October 31, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
i dont think an era under 4 is what you expect from vazquez. i think what you expect is just an innings eater. a #3 pitcher i wouldnt mind having, but lets get williams to package jermaine dye with him, and then we really help this team.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 31, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
Shaun—
I also think they should somewhat fix the lopsided schedule…though I don’t have a problem with the Braves having to make only a couple trips out West.
My biggest thing is inter-league play—I can’t stand inter-league play. It’s run it’s corse. It takes away from the World Series (I think). It also kinda takes away from the ASG…’Cause you already saw a lot of those AL guys in IL, so what’s the big deal with seeing them at the ASG? I like the ASG, but I don’t like inter-league play…at all…
By N Nine
October 31, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
Are White Sox willing to package a guy like Dye? He would be welcomed back here.
By Dan in NJ
October 31, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
This is just great. The World Champions in the same division as the Braves. Living in NJ, I have to hear it from those darn Mets fans how much the Braves stink. If this doesn’t make Wren & co. do something to save this franchise, I’m afraid it’s going to be more of the sameol’ sameol’
By Efrim
October 31, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
I can’t imagine the White Sox packaging Dye and Vasquez and not asking for a ton back in return.
I like Vasquez, but I think he costs us Kelly Johnson and then some. I’m not willing to make that trade.
Why would the White Sox even trade Jermaine Dye?
By Lew
October 31, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
KDBanks-Vasquez could be an interesting acquisition-depending on what he would cost trade-wise.
I think we’re looking for a number one and a number 2-3 pitcher. Vasquez would seem to me a number 3-4 pitcher, but he DOES eat innings, is only around 32 despite his tons of ML service, has a respectable ERA and Bobby does (or at least DID) like him. He might not be my first choice, but could fit the bill and leave a few $$$ left to tone up the lineup a bit.
By Shaun
October 31, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
McFann, I don’t so much mind interleague play but I think the novelty has worn away and it just messes up the schedule. Maybe if they could find a way logistically to allow every team to play every other team in the majors because that would mean a more balanced schedule. But I just don’t know if that’s possible.
By DAP
October 31, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
N Nine i think having carlos quentin, plus the white sox wanting to get younger and faster at several positions(middle infield and outfield) makes dye somewhat expendable to the chisox. the braves also have several players who are exactly in the mold of what they want.
By jim
October 31, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
I have 3 observations from reading some of the previous posts: 1. Are the Padres likely to get anything close to Hanson back from an offer they might get from ANY other team? Unlikely! The only possibility might be Phil Hughes if Peavy agrees to include the Yankees in the teams he would consider, and Hughes’ stock has dropped recently to a point where he is not as hot a prospect as Hanson. So why would anyone consider trading him? Sabathia, Santana, Harden, Lidge, and even Haren went for far less than the offers being mentioned here.
Would I trade Jeff Francouer for Harang? In a heartbeat! I can’t see why the Reds would want to do this, however.
Bringing back Edgar Renteria to play SS or 2B if Yunel or Kelly are traded. NO! Renteria can’t play SS any more. Even in 2007 he showed very limited range and a VERY weak arm. His days of hitting over 300 are also probably behind him. (I don’t think Furcal is a viable option either. Watching him in the NLDS, it was evident that he couldn’t bend over far enough to pick up cleanly ground balls to either side that Yunel would make a play on easily. He would be more expensive than ER, but would be a big health concern.)
By Lew
October 31, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
Shaun-Just wanted you to know I tried to call Ruben Amaro, Jr. this morning. Not surprisingly, he was not in. I left him a message and told him I’ll try again after the GM meetings (which he may well be preparing for-if not just taking a couple days to breathe).
If I can’t get ahold of him then, I’ll call his Dad. He will either have him contact me or I could try to get a ML Scout’s take on the MVP/ use of Sabremetrics questions.
By kdbanks
October 31, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
Dye would be a good pickup, but I agree with others that the cost of a Dye/Vazquez package may be steep - unless the Sox are trying to move salary.
I think Vazquez could be had for a couple of minor/MLB guys, including one infielder. Maybe a Lillibridge or Prado and a young arm?
By DAP
October 31, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
efrim Why would the White Sox even trade Jermaine Dye?
i wouldnt if i were them, because i like the idea of having thome, quentin, dye, back to back, but the rumor is he, along with konerko, and now vazquez, can be had. dye would be a pretty good fit for us. i think it has a lot to do with wanting the team to get younger, and faster. dye is one of the more tradable peices, so there you go.
id love the braves to get him. ive thought about it alot, and i think hes an even beter fit than ordonez.
By Efrim
October 31, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
Shaun
Do you really want to go back to two divisions and no wild card? I really enjoy the WC.
By nate
October 31, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
Pennant races are a thing of the past. And while they may have been exciting to serious baseball fans, they didn’t generate much in the way of revenue.
Baseball will go to four divisions per league before they go back to two. There’s too much money to be made in playoff games. Plus having more playoff spots keeps more teams (cities) involved through the end of the season and beyond.
By Lew
October 31, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
I think KD is right about what Vasquez would cost. I’m not so sure the Braves will go for a Dye/Ordonez type outfielder. I think they’ll go younger and cheaper.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 31, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
Shaun I think the novelty has worn away and it just messes up the schedule.
I think so, too.
I don’t know, though…no offense, but I’m not too keen on the thought of every team playing every other team.
Let the NL play the NL and the AL play the AL until the ASG and WS.
By Lew
October 31, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
Where is the Lunatic Fringe this morning? Seems like everyone is talking sense today. I love it.
Jim-I pretty well agree with your evaluation, but if the price were right (big Atlanta discount), I would be willing to give Edgar a contract. I really think that yes, he is in the declining years of his career, but I also believe he has a couple pretty good seasons left in him, too. His range, as you say, is somewhat limited, but he does still make most plays well. His arm is accurate, if not strong.
I really believe he is just NOT an AL player. Maybe he knows the NL pitchers better, but it is strange that he has great seasons in the NL, sandwiched around terrible AL seasons. That’s GOT to be at least a factor.
If we DO have to trade either KJ or Yunel, I would consider him for at least a one year fix.
By cabravesfan
October 31, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
McFann
I am with you on the inter league play- never liked it, probably never will (although it was fun to watch the Braves in Anaheim this year…)
Not really in favor of shortening the season, however- I think there are other ways to not have the playoffs creep into November
By kdbanks
October 31, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
Top 50 free agent listing on SI.com has some interesting names…suggests the Braves might sign Braden Looper for the rotation and that’s it out of the Top 50 for us.
The names I like on this list as Braves possibilities: Pitchers: Jon Garland Left Fielders: Jim Edmonds (kudos to eware on that one), Adam Dunn, Mark Kotsay, Juan Rivera and Pat Burrell (who is younger than I thought at 32).
By Eric
October 31, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
WAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!! You get paid for this?!? Blogging about how disinterested everyone (read as Braves fans) is in this World Series. What a joke. Crying about start times? Would they have started at 830 if the Braves didn’t suck and were involved. Then to corroborate your whining you enlist the opinion of ONE disenfranchised major leaguer. Great journalism - you should be a political blogger. You and the rest of the sad sack half-a* Brave fans better get used to the televised post-season experience because the change of the guard was completed two seasons ago. Have a nice winter ya’ll!
By Shaun
October 31, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
Efrim, I just think the Wild Card makes the regular season and playoffs a little less interesting to a lot of people. Doesn’t bother me too much because I’ll watch MLB no matter what. Maybe I’m completely wrong about that; obviously I didn’t do any surveys or anything. It’s just the sense I get. I think the two-division format would bring more interests back to the game.
More teams are involved now, that’s true. But there aren’t any races between great teams that all baseball fans—the avid and the casual ones alike—get caught up in.
And to a lot of casual fans, the playoffs are drawn out and they realize that in baseball flukes are much more likely to happen than in other sports. In baseball it’s not extremely surprising if an 88-win team knocks off a 100-win team in a playoff series. So the playoffs seem watered down when you have merely okay teams in it every year because in baseball those okay teams have a better shot to win than in other sports.
By David O'Brien
October 31, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
I have 3 observations from reading some of the previous posts: 1. Are the Padres likely to get anything close to Hanson back from an offer they might get from ANY other team? Unlikely! …. So why would anyone consider trading him? Jim
Jim, that’s probably one reason why Wren has said at every opportunity he is NOT trading his top-shelf prospects. Whether anyone else — bloggers, media members, etc — is considering trading Hanson is entirely irrelevent. Only Wren’s intentions are germane in this discussion, right?
By Joe M.
October 31, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
Guys, Jake Peavy is done. Rosenthal says the Padres are moving on from the Braves to the Dodgers and Cubs. And who can blame them? If I was the Padres GM, I wouldn’t trade a young ace like Peavy for a third-rate package involving Flowers, Lillibridge, Reyes and Morton…I wouldn’t trade Peavy unless I got Escobar, Johnson, Hanson or Heyward; and the Braves apparently don’t want to do that.
Face facts:the Braves are cheap. They’ve been cheap ever since Ted Turner left. Accept that the Braves aren’t getting Peavy or A.J. Burnett or Adam Dunn or Magglio Ordonez or Pat Burrell. Despite over forty million to spend and the prospects to make trades, the Braves’ “big acquisitions” will be duds like Garett Anderson or Juan Rivera or Jon Garland.
By Shaun
October 31, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
nate, you are probably right. I think pennant races create more buzz and draw more interests from casual fans. But more teams don’t get the big TV contracts and gate receipts that come with the playoffs. Then again, ratings are down, so it’s possible that maybe baseball will realize that they need those pennant races to peak fan interest.
By David O'Brien
October 31, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
By the way, after a decade or so of waiting, anyone still excited about Guns N’ Roses’ announced Nov. 23 release date for Chinese Democracy?
I’d say I’m curious, but not too excited. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it’ll pale next to the stuff that made the band’s real lineup such a force.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 31, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
cabravesfan—
Yeah, the more I think about it, I don’t know that I’d like a shorter season, either.
I’d be more for shortening ST…and, yes, ditching the WBC…
By Steve from OH
October 31, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this
DOB, totally agreed on Chinese Democracy. No Slash, Duff, Izzy=no GNR.
I’m curious to see what 10 years in the studio sounds like, too.
By DAP
October 31, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this
edgar cant supplant escobar. if edgar can play 2nd, and we end up trading kelly somehwere, id go for edgar. he had a bad year last year, but id be surprised if he is completly done. his leadership would really be valued on a young braves team.
the only way it works is if he plays 2nd base, because he will not supplant escobar, who should not be going anywhere.
By Efrim
October 31, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
kdbanks
Jon Garland is horrible. He isn’t going to be worth anything near what he is going to get. I’d rather give Jo Jo Reyes the ball every fifth day than to pay Jon Garland.
By Efrim
October 31, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
Shaun
You make some good points, but I really think shrinking the divisions to two would make baseball less interesting. Especially to the casual fan who loves the Wild Card idea. At least I think they do. But like you said, I haven’t taken a survey or done any research to back that up. Just my two cents. I think more teams being involved grabs a larger audience than two or three teams being in the hunt.
By David O'Brien
October 31, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
Face facts:the Braves are cheap. They’ve been cheap ever since Ted Turner left. Accept that the Braves aren’t getting Peavy or A.J. Burnett or Adam Dunn or Magglio Ordonez or Pat Burrell. Despite over forty million to spend and the prospects to make trades, the Braves’ “big acquisitions” will be duds like Garett Anderson or Juan Rivera or Jon Garland.Joe M
Joe M, times change. Desperate times, desperate measures. (And I would argue that a $90-plus mill payroll isn’t exactly “cheap” to begin with, but that’s another story.)
Want to bet that the Braves make at least one major, big-ticket acquisition, via trade or free agency? You say they won’t. I say they will. Right here, right now. Let’s mark it down.
By Braveheart
October 31, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
But going back to a two-division format for each league, people would pay attention to a lot more games down the stretch.
Shaun, 75% of the teams have made it into October over the last decade. Over half the league is still arguably in contention for October at almost every trading deadline. Attendance and revenues and salaries increase every season.
A two division format would just monopolize the power and money in the big market teams. With less teams in contention, there would be less revenue generated for the lesser teams and even for the big market teams. The result would be that the lesser markets would have even less of an ability to maintain guys through the first six years …. their core young guys would be too costly once they are arb-eligible.
In the current system, if the lesser markets can’t make tons of money to retain and get guys they want/need to win consistently, they can make enough money to go the more cost effective route of using that money in scouting and development and statistical analysis. With less money, those teams wouldn’t be able to use the money they are making to a scouting, marketing, and statistical evaluation advantage. Less money means less scouts, less salesman, less minor league instructors, and less sabermetric advisers being contracted with.
They wouldn’t have the money to justify the luxury of spending that money….. and even if they did, what would be the point? They wouldn’t really have the ability to win because the upper tier of the two divisions would be controlled by the big market teams.
They’re never going to go back to two divisions. It wasn’t as rewarding for baseball and all of their teams financially.
Two divisions just concentrates the money and the power in the already wealthy teams. As much as we love the idea of the pennant chase, if you’re a small market team, do you really care to see the Yankees and Red Sox go at it for years and years in a pennant chase? Not really. The Cold War between Russia and America held tons of interest for Americans and Russians but was not of much interest to anyone in Zimbabwe.
Not concentrating the wealth and power in the wealthy superpower teams in a two team division by spreading the wealth and power to all of the teams has caused every market in the sport to have a vested interest. This has made every team, including the wealthy superpower teams far more money than they were making under the old two division system.
By Efrim
October 31, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Joe M.
They spent something like 92 million on the team last year. Why in the world would you consider them cheap? They aren’t idiots. They aren’t going to trade 4-5 of our best prospects or young players for Jake Peavy. At least not with the initial offer. You should be happy that they are waiting for SD to lower their demands.
By David O'Brien
October 31, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
Baseball might add another wild card someday, perhaps in the not-too-distant future. But baseball is NOT going back to the two-division days. No way, no how. How anyone can seriously think that would even be considered is beyond me, given the huge revenues created by the wild-card system and the sellouts and TV contracts and the keeping teams in contention until the end of the season, when many of those same teams would’ve been done by the All-Star break under the old system.
No turning back. No possibility of that.
By Carroll
October 31, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
Well I never thought I’d see the day when somebody made Bobby Cox look like a genius. But being here in Tampa and following the Rays this season and post-season, Joe Maddon takes the cake. So many things…it’s just fortunate that the bats were hot enough to cover hs hijinx in the boston series.
Look at the second half of game 5 alone: Price should’ve started from the beginning…didn’t….rays promptly give up the lead. Miraculously, they tie it back up…could have gotten more, but instead of pinch hitting for a relief pitcher who has never batted in the bigs, he leaves him in there to bunt. Then leaves him in there to pitch Philly right back into the lead. THEN we finally see Price—whom nobody has hit this postseason…but it’s too late. then he pinch hits for Baldelli (who just hit a homerun); then he pinch hits for Bartlett, who has had more big, clutch hits for the Rays than anyone this year (think lemke 1991). And just what were we going to do defensively had the rays tied it? Put Hinske at short?
Just…damn.
By BravesFanInRockies
October 31, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I think it’s more likely MLB would add two expansion teams and go to eight divisions than it is to return to a two-division-per-league setup.
No WC, but four divisions in each league.
As for Vasquez, why not kick the tires? He’ll be 33 in the spring, he’s consistently had a 3-to-1 K/BB ratio and hey typically pitches below league average in ERA.
Williams might ask for KJ in return. I’d say no to that, but would be willing to consider other options.
By rammerjammer
October 31, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
Steve, thanks for your 10:37 quoting Kurkjian.
It’s like shopping for a car. You gotta be willing to walk away. And when you start walking, the salesman’s price starts falling.
By StingerSplash
October 31, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
“Appetite for Destruction” was one of the great rock n roll records of all time and maybe the best major debut of all time. But after “Lies” and the “Use Your Illusion” 1 and 2, Axl’s act and the inner band turmoil just turned me off. Remember GNR reunited for a performance on one of MTV’s dumbaxx awards shows, with Axl proclaiming at the end, “Round 1!”? MTV — OK, Kurt Loder — got all worked up about GNR getting back together, but at that point, weren’t they on the ramp about to hurtle over the shark? I mean, it wasn’t The Beatles, it wasn’t David Gilmour and Roger Waters mending fences, it wasn’t Page/Plant/John Paul Jones getting back together. Once “Civil War” came out (and I listened to that song about 3-4 times over the last few days, and it was on the radio today), shouldn’t they have just said, “You know, this is one hellacious song. Let’s go out on top and go our own ways” with GNR fading into history?
And they’re lining up already for the free agent sweepstakes. Gonna be an interesting few weeks.
By Jeff R
October 31, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
I don’t recall who wrote that a Peavy deal is off with the Braves. But I doubt it. Towers is shopping Peavy - he should. Needless-to-say, he wants the best return available for his ace. But now that that miserable World Series is over, GM talks are just warming up.
I’m guessing that if Towers and Wren eventualy cut a deal, it will revolve around… Escobar. Morton and a solid but not top tier pitching prospect could round out the package.
Again, I’d guess that Wren would be willing to surrender Escobar for Peavy if he doesn’t have to give up his core prospects.
Greene - who would be salary dumped on the Braves - and Lillibridge could give the Braves a decent tandem at shortstop.
Wren knows that starting pitching is the team’s critical need. He’ll make moves, and I bet he’d swap Escobar for the right hurler.
By Justin
October 31, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Any insight on whether the Braves will pursue any players from Asia? I’ve seen rumblings here and there, but nothing concrete.
By Braveheart
October 31, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
Well I never thought I’d see the day when somebody made Bobby Cox look like a genius.
Hindsight is always 20/20. Those who criticize the most have usually never had a job that demands damned if you do, damned if you don’t decisions. The toughest decision of their day is usually paper or plastic at the supermarket.
The Monday Morning QB always make the right decision ….. only, of course, after seeing first how it all turns out from the comfort of their armchair while guzzling their tenth Bud of the night. The actual QB knows he only needs to get a few more right than he gets wrong.
It wasn’t Maddon’s fault that Bossman Junior grounded into 25 double plays in the World Series and that his first baseman and third baseman were AWOL. Maddon could have done a few things better but it wasn’t ever gonna be enough to overcome the failure of his boys to play good ball. His team just wasn’t good enough this time around.
By ncscoots
October 31, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
He’ll make moves, and I bet he’d swap Escobar for the right hurler.
In which case, he should be immediately demoted to the status of blogger, for he will have confirmed that his tenure in Baltimore was not an aberration.
By Bill
October 31, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
Let’s forget about Peavy and go after Cain of the Giants. I think the Giants will listen. I’m a little afraid of Peavy’s medical condition. Offer Escobar, Jo Jo and two low level prospects. I would hate to give up Escobar but to get pitching, someone has to go. I like the idea of trying to get Vasquez. That would give farm system to develope two more years.
By David O'Brien
October 31, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, excellent point (2:19).
By keylargo
October 31, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
Liberty Media has increased the payroll by $40 million but what about these four players:
Hampton - $15mm in 2008. Not signed
Smoltz - $14mm in 2008. Not signed
Glavine - $8mm in 2008. Not signed
Hudson - $13mm in 2009 but on the DL. Does insurance pick up his salary until he comes off the DL?
If all three pitchers unsigned are signed to $5mm contracts and insurance picks up 50% of Hudson’s salary that is another $26.5mm of salary saved from the 2008 season.
I asking a question, not telling, but I don’t see why this should not be part of the total payroll
By Joe M.
October 31, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
Want to bet that the Braves make at least one major, big-ticket acquisition, via trade or free agency? You say they want. I say they will. Right here, right now. Let’s mark it down.
Hey, from your lips to God’s ears.
I’m just overly cynical. But it is hard not to be after this past season.
By Lunatic Fringe
October 31, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
Did someone ask for me?
By DAP
October 31, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
keylargo Liberty Media has increased the payroll by $40 million
haha! no they havent. that would be nice though! the $40 mil that has been thrown around on the blog is the approxamate amount of money wrent has to spend, based on money coming off the books (those contracts you talked about) increase in payrole, taking into account raises to certain players, ect.
so $40mil is what we have to work with. have fun.
By RC
October 31, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
Assuming a Peavy deal is reached that includes Escobar, how about the idea of signing Furcal to come back and reclaim his spot at SS for the Braves next year. He might come at a discount due to his recent injury history, and assuming Lillibrige, Infante, and Prado are still around there are plenty of capable backups should he miss any time. I’d love to see him back atop the Braves lineup…we’ve not reached the playoffs since he left.
By WaitTilNextYear
October 31, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
Hampton, NO! Glavine, NO! Smoltz, MAYBE. It’s time to turn a new leaf and get some YOUNG, strong arms in the rotation. Whether it be by trade, free agency or holding someone at gunpoint, the rotation has GOT to get younger.
By Lew
October 31, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
KeyLargo-What DAP said. Also, Wren has said that should they be able to re-sign Glavine, and Smoltz (possibly Hampton, too) that it would be above and beyond the $40 mil. At least that’s how I remember it. I’m sure if I’m wrong someone will tell me.
By Shaun
October 31, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
DOB, I agree with your 1:34 PM wholeheartedly. No way baseball is going back to a two-division format. But in my opinion it would make the game better and more attractive to casual fans. Just my opinion. I know there is not a chance MLB would go back to it because of the immediate revenue they earn from expanded playoffs.
Braveheart, during the two-division years teams like the Royals, Twins, A’s and Reds were very successful. I don’t see that it would change the balance of power to a few teams.
And I would argue that baseball would draw more fan interest and in turn more money over the long haul with a two-division format. But I know it won’t happen because of the instant gratification that comes from playoff TV contracts and playoff gate receipts.
I would also argue that the increase in revenue recently has as much to do with the owners finding better ways to created demand in recent years than it does a change in the playoff format.
Owners have realized that small stadiums are the way to go because fewer seats means more demand. Oakland, Tampa Bay and Florida actually closed off sections of their stadiums within the last decade in order to create demand.
Owners have also been wise about using the internet, satellite radio and satellite TV packages to create new revenue streams. This also has as much to do with the increase in revenue as the expanded playoff format.
Again, not saying baseball is ever going to go back to two divisions. It’s guaranteed revenue right away versus building interest over the long haul, and many of us would choose the immediate, guaranteed revenue. I strongly agree that baseball isn’t going to go back to the two-division days. I’m just saying, I strongly believe it would be better for them in the long run if they did.
By Hillbilly
October 31, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
By Lew
Where is the Lunatic Fringe this morning? Seems like everyone is talking sense today. I love it.
Lew,
I thought you knew…The lunatics are on the grass.
By Wayne
October 31, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Carroll concerning your 1:49pm post.
Though my friend Braveheart did a fine job of explaining hindsight, I would like to add a point or two.
First, Maddon was assuming a potentially long game (letting the pitcher hit). Next, he did not go straight to Price because Balfour and Howell have done excellent work for the Rays this year.
Lastly, didn’t you notice that Zobrist was a pinch-hitter earlier in the inning (for Baldelli, I believe it was). You show your lack of baseball knowledge by wondering who would play SS if they tied the score. Zobrist is a SS by trade. He would have played short, and Hinske would have gone into right field.
By Wayne
October 31, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
Question? If Frank Wren only spends 39.5 million of the 40 he has to spend on new parts, do you think he would give me the last 500K?
I could pay off my house, all my debt, and still have a LARGE chunck of coin to throw a huge DOB/MIB/BBQ blog party on opening day in Atlanta this year.
Sounds like fun to me!
By nate
October 31, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
I would imagine that MLB is starting to think about expanding again. Revenues are at an all time high. Everyone is making tons of money. Attendance is up over most of the league. Its been ten years since Arizona and Tampa were added, and now both of those teams have played in the world series.
If the AL added two teams (Portland, San Antonio) then then both leagues could move to four divisions apiece and the silly wild card could be dropped. Plus expanding and moving to four divisions allows you to even out the number of teams in each division and league with making anyone mad.
By Wayne
October 31, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
Heck, I would even fly Lew down from the frigid NE to do spring training… my treat!
By Woo Hoo!
October 31, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
how about the idea of signing Furcal
Alright! The obligatory “hey, ever consider bringing back Furcal/Renteria?” post of the blog! We should never be allowed to get to the next new blog without at least one!
By Wayne
October 31, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
Hillbilly Some of the lunatics are in my head…..
By crap-wheelie
October 31, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
It saddens me to see that Andruw still thinks he will finish his career with the Braves. It’s likely he will finish his career early next season with the Dodgers. He just can’t hit anymore.
By Hillbilly
October 31, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
Wayne,
There’s someone in my head, but it’s not me.
By Wayne
October 31, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
Alright, here is the plan that will work.
Trade Escobar, Morton and Locke for Peavy and Greene. Trade BJones, Prado and Redmond for Jermaine Dye. Sign Ohman. Sign Wolf. Start planning for the party.
Peavy 11 mil
Greene 6.5 mil
Dye 9.5 mil
Wolf 9 mil
Ohman 3.5 mil (go big, or stay home)
Wayne’s Party .5 mil
Total 40 mil
We got a winner here!
By Steve from OH
October 31, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
Stingersplash:
Totally agree on Appetite for Destruction, fantastic album. Once Izzy left the band, things started going downhill for sure…Axl left to his own devices is, well, uh, let’s just see how Chinese Democracy turns out.
Hampton, NO! Glavine, NO! Smoltz, MAYBE.
Smoltz, “maybe?” Huh? So you just look at that guy and are like, “no, this guy can’t help our team at all. No way. Cut him loose?” I’ll let the first two slide (I’d be fine with either of them in a defined #5 role, with good acquistions ahead of them), but no way Smoltz isn’t a Brave in ‘09 if he’s healthy IMO.
By cabravesfan
October 31, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
Shaun
I always liked the 2 division format also-I really don’t like the wild card, although I understand that is generates more interest in the playoff races, but I am something of a purist…get rid of the wild card (if that means going to 4 divisions so be it- you should have to win your division to have a chance at the world series), get rid of inter league play, get rid of the DH (I know that is never going to happen but I can dream, right?) and stop letting the all star game decide home field advantage…
OK done ranting for now…
By David O'Brien
October 31, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
keylargo, you’ve got misinformation. Liberty has NOT raised payroll $40 mill. The $40 mill figure — and it’s only approximate, but Braves have indicated it’s probably reasonably close — is what they have to spend, including money from those expiring contracts you mentioned AND from the amount — again, approximate — that will be paid by insurance on Hudson’s contract while on DL.
it could be closer to $50 mill than $40 mill, but pretty safe to say it’s at least $40 mill….
HAPPY BIRTHDAY Larry Mullen Jr., who’s 47, and Adam Horovitz (Adrock), who’s 42.
By DAP
October 31, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
Where is the Lunatic Fringe this morning? Seems like everyone is talking sense today. I love it.
sounds like lew misses his friends!! :-)
By Wayne
October 31, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
I have always liked Matt Cain. I think we are one of the few teams that could come up with a package that would entice the Giants to let him go.
(cut and paste, as I don’t know how to link)
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081030&contentid=3655628&vkey=newssf&fext=.jsp&cid=sf&partnerId=rsssf
By ncscoots
October 31, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
Wayne, sometimes I think that too much clean air and beautiful surroundings has addled you, LOL. It’s a harsh thing to have happen to a good Clemson man.
By mbatl
October 31, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
cabravesfan, while we’re at it, expand two teams into the AL (Portland, San Antonio, as Nate suggested, or maybe Nashville), so you have 2 16-team leagues, four divisions per league.
Get rid of the “unbalanced schedule”, the Wild Card, and Interleague play, and let each team play every team in it’s league 10 times… for 150 total games. Shortens the season by 2 weeks, allowing the playoffs to start in about the 3rd week of September.
Seven-game first round, seven-game 2nd round, 7 game World Series should take no more than 28 days or so, with the WS game 7 around Oct. 25 (just guestimating).
By keylargo
October 31, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
If, and it’s a big if, Hampton stays healthy next year, he will win twelve to fifteen for someone. He was throwing quality start after quality start there at the end of 08 and he had been out for almost 3 years.
With a spring training and some conditioning behind him he will be tough. It wiil be a big mistake on Braves part not to sign him.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 31, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Wayne—
Sounds like fun to me, too! ; )
Hey, I mean, DOB said Frank Wren reads this Blog occasionally…
By DAP
October 31, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
wayne i love it! i hope im invited.
By Wayne
October 31, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
It looks like Javier Vazquez is going to be dealt. Would they be interested in expanding that deal to include one of their outfielders?
We probably have the parts to make this one happen, but it would probably ace us out of the Peavy sweepstakes.
scoots I thought everybody loved a good party!
:-)
By Wayne
October 31, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
key Definitely agree on Hampton. I think an incentive laden contract would be in place. Give him a chance to make 8-10 million with a given number of innings pitched. If he is doing lousy, then release him. If he is doing well, then gladly pay him.
So many ways for the Bravos to go….
By Party Pooper
October 31, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Wayne half a mil wont be enough for a party on todays free agent market. you would have to trade for a opening day DOB/MIB party, and dont have prospects to do it.
By Wayne
October 31, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
McFann/DAP/others Hey, everybody’s invited, so long as you know the password / catch-phrase: “Your and idiot” will get you into the party.
Lots of BBQ, Diet Dr. Pepper, and sounds from the 70’s! Also, plenty of Braves talk!
Put it on your calandars folks!
(Frank, we are waiting on you!)
Peavy, Cain, Vazquez, ……..
Obviously there is an order in these three pitchers, but an addition of ANY of these three would be a big plus for the 2009 Braves.
My biggest hangup is I am such a prospect hugger that I don’t want to give up any of Hanson, Heyward, Teheran, Freeman, Schafer, Rohrbough, etc.
I would give up Gorkys or Flowers, even Locke and Medlen. Brandon Jones, Gregor Blanco, Brent Lillibridge, nitram odarp, Josh Anderson, your all outta here if necessary!
Push came to shove, as much as I love his game, I would send Yunel for Peavy or Cain. Not for Vazquez. Same goes for KJ.
“The waiting is the hardest part!” TP
By Lew
October 31, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
Hillbilly-No Dude, The Lunatic is in the hall. Or is it my head?
By Braveheart
October 31, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
Wayne, ya gotta remember your audience here. Make sure to invite alot of cheap, young floozies to the party that they can hug ….. no way these dudes here would settle for a bunch of older, more reliable FAILFs.
By Lew
October 31, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
DAP-Sorry, but to quote another great Rocker-You’re never alone with a Schizophrenic.
Stinger-Any idea of the new GNR lineup? You do realize that Slash, Matt Sorum and Duff McKagan have been playing with Scott Weiland in Velvet Revolver for the past 3 or 4 years? If you haven’t heard their two CD’s-Contraband and Libertad, you should check them out. Some of the best hard rock to come out in recent years.
By N Nine
October 31, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Where is the party at? Someone say BBQ? :)
By Braveheart
October 31, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Ah, messed that one up. Should have said there is no way the prospect huggers are gonna want older, more reliable SPILFs at this party you’re throwing. They like ‘em young, unpredictable, and huggable
By N8
October 31, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
Lew
Lunatic Fringe, huh? I know they got the title of the song from the phrase itself, but anytime you can drop a Red Rider reference on the blog….well done. LOL!
DOB
As for the GnR album coming out (not sure why I still say “album” when referring to bands work of art anymore)? Can’t say I care, and I’m of the belief that Appetite for Destruction is EASILY in the Top 10 when discussing not only influential but REALLY GOOD rock albums, if not Top 5.
Hell, people from my generation might consider it THE greatest of all time. But being a musician that loves rock, hard rock and metal music, I’m not gonna give them that much credit over guys like Sabbath, Zepplin and The Who. Call me crazy.
IMO, no Slash, means probably no good tunes.
Speaking of GnR, not sure if you ever watch Celebrity Rehab on VH-1, but the original GnR drummer Steven Adler is one of the (ahem) “celebrities” on the 2nd season that is currently airing.
Dude is in ROUGH shape. Almost makes Gary Busey look like the “normal” one in the house.
Yikes.
By Lunatic Fringe
October 31, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
And if the band you’re in starts playing different tunes I’ll see you on the dark side of the moon.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 31, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
Wayne—
All right! Sounds great! (70’s music rules, BTW. Love those Oldies!)
Maybe Wren’ll give you the money of you promise him a free pass!
; )
Those dudes you mentioned (besides Yunel and Johnson) are prob’ly who I’d part with, too, though I do like Nitram a lot as a super utility. Kinda like Anderson, too, but I wouldn’t be “hurt” if we got rid of him (especially if we got one of those pitchers in return).
By David O'Brien
October 31, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
Magglio could be targeted, but I think Braves will need to wait on such a big OF move after they determine how much it’s going to cost to land two starting pitchers, both in terms of salary next season and what they might have to give up (prospects) in a trade, assuming they’ll trade for at least one of those pitchers.
It adds to the difficulty of filling all the team’s needs, the fact that the moves are all part of a puzzle, not just individual moves done without any regard for the other team needs.
If they could knock out the top-starter need first, it’d make it a lot simpler to know what’s available in terms of resources to use to fill the other needs, obviously.
By Lew
October 31, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
Nathan-I’ve got a great Red Rider collection if you’re interested. I always enjoyed Tom Cochrane’s song writing and Teddy Roosevelt, the originator of the term Lunatic Fringe, was always my favorite Presidential type. Anyone who started a National Parks program and runs on a party called Bull Moose, has got to be cool.
By cabravesfan
October 31, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
mbatl
I actually like the unbalanced schedule (although I wish the Braves did come out west more often) and I am not in favor of a shorter season but Nashville especially would be a good place for an expansion team, as would Portland (great sports town with no good sports…)- also not sure about the 7 game first round, although if there is no wild card I suppose it makes sense…not a bad plan on your part overall
By Wayne
October 31, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this
Quote from the NY Post:
Oliver Perez, represented by Scott Boras, reportedly will be seeking a four- or five-year deal worth $60 million or more. That’s likely to be too rich for the Mets’ blood, even with Perez’s 10-7 record and 4.22 ERA in 194 innings this past season. — NY Post
Like Lew says, 40 million doesn’t buy what it used to.
By No Oliver Perez!
October 31, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this
Please, have some decency.
By Brian
October 31, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this
DOB- On your 1:09 comment, I wonder how their drummer is because he was on a rehab show and seemed like he had 2 brain cells left. He said he’s only been sober for 2 days of his life since he was 11 years old.
By N Nine
October 31, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
Cnnsi’s Ben Reiter, has posted MLB’s top 50 Free Agents and a possible home. He is predicted only one guy to land in Alanta as “best fit”
38 Braden Looper- Unexpectedly became a reasonably effective starter (24-26) in two seasons in St. Louis after spending his first nine as a reliever. But his K-rate is low (just 4.7 per nine innings), and what happens if he leaves the tutelage of Dave Duncan?We have cash to spend but all the talks appear to be through trades at the moment.
By Goodoleboy58
October 31, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this
I’d take Oliver Perez at 12 million per I suppose… It’s better then seeing Jeff Bennett trying to pitch 4 innings after Jo Jo gets knocked out in the 2nd
By keylargo
October 31, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
To say I’m disappointed that the Braves are saying they have $40 mm to spend for new players, but then it turns out that the vast majority is from cutting veterans salaries, is an understatement.
Hampton, Smoltz and Glavines salaries for 2008 were a total of $37 mm. Hudson makes $13 mm for 2009 and insurance will pay at least half, so there is $43.5 mm.
That’s a lot like having the CEO announce at a staff meeting that they are hiring more people to reduce the work load and are paying for it by cutting salaries for existing employees. Who the he!! wants that scenario?
By Wayne
October 31, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this
key That’s been the story all along. Also, add in Tex’s salary, and only count 8-9 Mil for Hampton as that was what they were counting on their books (they had averaged his salary over the years here).
To be honest, your analogy is not 100% correct. It would be more like a CEO saying we have 4-5 old guys that are retiring and we are going to use their salaries to add new blood.
He has also stated that in addition to the 40 mil (and that is an estimate, not really a hard and fast figure that has been publicly stated), if he resigns any of the 3 guys (Smoltz, Glavine or Hampton), it will be in addition to signing 2 starters and a LF’er.
To me, that is not disappointing at all. To be honest with you, I am proud that my team has shown fiscal restraint, when others have not (Bos, NYY, etc).
I suspect that once he gets going, if he needs an extra few million over whatever figure he has in his head, he would probably have the flexibility to spend it. Just my guess, not based on any facts.
“trick or treat?”
By keylargo
October 31, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
Wayne
I bet all three of the veterans sign contracts next year. I just don’t think any of them are going to hang it up until they prove to themselves they can no longer compete. Think about the nature of all three. Competitors.
By Wayne
October 31, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this
key Very possible that they will all 3 sign. Hampton might be swayed to go elsewhere. Rarely do you find a guy willing to do what Chipper and Smoltz have done, take a less-than market salary to stay with their team.
Now Tommy Gee is saying it’s Atlanta or nothing. If he comes back and is capable, then it should be REAL reasonable. We probably won’t need him.
Smoltz is the only one that I have high hopes for, due to his competitive nature. I would rather have Hampton than Glavine at this point. Either would be a good #5 man.
How would this rotation look: Vazquez, Jurrjens, Garland (innings eater who will probably do better in the NL), Hanson and Hampton or Glavine. Campillo is reserve with Buddy C in Gwinnett ready to help out.
Then you would have these guys, if not traded. Morton (I expect him to be dealt), JoJo (possible trade fodder, but I still like his upside), Anthony Lerew ( the forgotten man), Chuck James (whenever he is ready to return) and maybe Todd Redmond if he is not dealt.
Lots of possible 5th starters and long men. We just need those two arms.
I suspect Hanson will start off in Gwinnett, unless he kills it in the spring, but I don’t think he will be there in June.
Gotta run… Later.
By Wayne
October 31, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this
I would personally love to see Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux all go into the Hall together. It could happen.
I don’t know of any reason why they all shouldn’t be first ballot locks.
It would also be cool to have them all on our staff in September, after call-ups if they were all healthy. Not that we need to depend on them, but just for nostagia. I can see it now, Braves with their 8 game lead, let those guys start and/or relieve the last couple of home games of the season, then ride off to Cooperstown together.
By Braveheart
October 31, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
According to the Fielding Bible results that just came out, Yunel Escobar was a +21 SS, second best in the majors.
http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/2008-plus-minus-leaders.asp
Certainly agrees with what I saw this season. Yunel should be almost as untouchable as McCann.
By Steve from OH
October 31, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this
BH:
Thanks for the link. Interesting to see Francoeur go from +10 (in the “leaders” group) last season to -17 (dead last) this season. Talk about piling on…. Oh, and Manny Acosta in the leaders group for pitchers. Loved that one.
By Efrim
October 31, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
I’d take Oliver Perez on a 4 year deal for 12-13 per year. But I doubt he’ll settle for that. 4 year deal for 60 million? We’ll see. Gotta pay in this market. These pitchers are going to get there money.
By Steve from OH
October 31, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this
Efrim, if guys like Perez are looking for 15MM a year, then it sure makes you like the (good) prospects coming up and making 400K, eh? Also makes Peavy look like a bargain…
Frank Wren, good luck buddy. You’re gonna need it.
By Dr. Loomis
October 31, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this
You would have to be psycho to pay that kind of money for Oliver Perez. The frenzy of the hot stove. Anyone listen to the Bowling Greene Philharmonic?
By ncscoots
October 31, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this
Man alive, there is some seriously wicked Janus-like work going on here, LOL. Folks who would trade a Charlie Morton or JoJo Reyes (mainly, I guess, because neither went 10-2 last year and therefore must be scrub bums), turn around, take a breath, and blithely throw $15MM the way of an Oliver Perez or a Jon Garland or some other headcase/journeyman/one-good-year/whatever pitcher. And see absolutely no problem with doing so. Wow. Just…wow.
I see not a single FA pitcher, that the Braves might actually sign, who offers significantly more upside than the young, untried arms already in camp. And while you may be more confident that the more experienced pitchers will pitch to their previous capability, it’s unlikely that such a signee could match a breakout year by one of the younger ones, should one of the youngsters have one.
So I say…screw the second pitcher. Get Peavy, sign Hampton, get a banger. Signing the likes of Perez or Garland or Randy Wolf or one of the other puke-worthy names just seems a waste to me. Might make some bloggers feel good, but for the team, it won’t mean jack. Except for a further dent in the checkbook.
By McFann O –[brr!]
October 31, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this
This being Halloween and all, I got a candy-related Q for the Denizens:
WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED TO BUTTERFINGER BBs???
It’s not fair! Those were the best little candies on the planet!!
By Efrim
October 31, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this
ncscoots and Steve from OH
Listen, Jon Garland isn’t in the same class as Oliver Perez. They don’t live on the same street, nor in the same town. They are in completely different countries when it comes to comparing their skills.
Guys, what did you expect to come from this offseason? Really. I mean, the free agent pitchers out there are considered front line guys. Maybe not Oliver, but he is NO LESS than a #3. Burnett, Lowe, Sabathia. They are getting at least 16 million a year. Then there are the lesser pitchers. Ben Sheets will probably get Schmidt like deal. Perez is going to probably get 5 for 75. In this market. 26 year old left hander with his stuff? Absolutely.
Anyway, what did you want to do with the 40 plus million? Sit on it? Spend 60 million on the 2009 Braves? Jake Peavy? Well, they are asking for 5 players, and possibly still might be demanding Tommy Hanson. So, we can’t have Peavy if Depodesta/Alderson/Towers keep asking for the moon, right? I guess we can trade for the Edwin Jackson’s of the world, sign Mike Hampton and call it a day. But no, I’m not for that. And I am pretty sure Frank Wren isn’t either.
Gotta spend the money somewhere guys. You really have to if you expect to contend.
By Lew
October 31, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
KeyLargo-Dude, Though it will not, indeed, buy what it used to, $40 mil is $40 mil no matter whether it comes from attrition or not (and DOB says it could be a little closer to $50 mil-maybe). The payroll should be in the neighborhood of $100 million or a bit more. It may not be in the top five payrolls in baseball, but it isn’t middle to bottom, either. Keep in mind that the Braves don’t pull in 4 million in attendance, either (don’t see how they could).
Did you seriously think the Braves were going to boost payroll to $135 million?
By Efrim
October 31, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
ncscoots
Really man, what did you think these pitchers were going to get? Here is what I think all of these guys are signing for. I may not be on the money, but I think I am close:
CC Sabathia - 6 years 132 million(that is conservative)
AJ Burnett - 5 years 90 million
Derek Lowe - 4 years 64 million
Oliver Perez - 5 years 75 million
Ben Sheets - 3 years 48 million
Randy Wolf - 3 years 33 million
Those are the guys that are at least interesting. Everyone else isn’t worth the money or time to even discuss, in my opinion.
Then we have Jake Peavy for 4 years and 63 million in trade. But, of course, he costs 3-5 prospect/young player package on top of the money.
I won’t speculate on others because I have no idea who is even available. Just sayin man…..just sayin.
By ncscoots
October 31, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this
Efrim, spend the money, if you must (though I tend not to like the idea of “got it, gotta spend it”). But let’s not be delusional about the quality you’ll get for the money. Second-tier productivity for top-tier money. That’s not the kind of ROI that keeps you in business.
As far as Perez vs Garland, I care not not a whit about the disparity in their skills, since they are both on the other side of the street from “good”. I know you like Perez, but he makes me snooze.
By Lew
October 31, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this
Efrim-I’m thinking someone will offer Hampton $5-8 mil, too. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least. All of those who keep thinking the Braves will sign him for a million bucks are delusional in the extreme.
By Steve from OH
October 31, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this
Efrim, not saying we shouldn’t sign another pitcher, just remarking on the ridiculous amount of money that mediocre starters like Jon Garland and O. Perez are gonna get. And I’m right with ya on Garland.
I see us spending money, I just hope we don’t blow it on guys like Garland or Wolf, and invest it more wisely. If it means scoots’ idea (which I agreed with, but I do think we need to make a push for another starter after that), so be it. No sense in locking Garland into a 4 year deal and having it cripple us down the road. That’s why I think FW is smart to keep Hanson…very high ceiling, and at low cash. You’d be getting a performance way better than anything Garland could give you at millions less. That’s not “prospect-hugging,” that’s smart investing.
By ncscoots
October 31, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
Efrim, Lew is right about one thing: trade for Peavy and sign one of the guys on your list, and there’s no bat in LF, for sure. So make your pick. Want to go with Peavy, Wolf, and a prayer in LF, or Peavy, a banger, and a prayer at the back of the rotation?
My choice is known, I think. Give me runs and an ace, and I’ll find enough adequate starting pitching.
By keylargo
October 31, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
Lew, I was really under the impression we were going to have about a $120 budget. It must have been that people are talking about $18 mm for Magglio Ordonez, $15 for Peavy, another pitcher in Peavy’s range, signing Ohman, resigning Hampton, Smotlz and maybe Glavine, $6.5 mm for Khalil Greene. Heck, I was happy I had heard Wren say that he could go over budget because there really wasn’t a set figure.
All I knew was what they were saying did not add up to what the blog was talking about. At least give me credit for seeing that.
When you get right down to it, no one really knows what goes on with the MLB books. All I know is that Hampton got more money on a declined option this year than I will make in my lifetiime. And that money was to NOT work under that contract. He is free to work under a new one though.
By Efrim
October 31, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
ncscoots
Well, the Braves really aren’t in a position to sit on their hands and not spend the money, right?
As far as Garland vs. Perez, I mean, come on man. Perez is leaps and bounds better than Garland. Garland isn’t worth a rotation spot on the Braves….and we only have one clear cut starter for crying out loud.
By David O'Brien
October 31, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this
Keylargo, it seems strange that you are so surprised by the budget, and by what the $40 mill figure represents, etc. Haven’t seen anyone else on here confused by that. I really didn’t think it was too hard to understand, but I guess I took for granted that people here knew what we’ve all been talking about for more than a month now….
Brian, seriously, what were you thinking when you posted that reprehensible comment about Jimmy Rollins? That one’s likely to get you banned without debate, and I won’t be defending you. That was just in ridiculously poor taste.
By keylargo
October 31, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this
Lew, here is a post I made a couple of days ago. I think I was arguing against trading for Magglio Ordonez with NCscoots.
And that was when I thought we had a $125 mm budget. How do you think I feel now? LOL, Lew the Braves haven’t called me yet.
By keylargo
October 29, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
Scoots, I am really wary of the last year on Ordonez’s contract. I just don’t think he will be among the best three outfielders we will have and at $18 million, he NEEDS to be.
Say our payroll is $125 million. Guess who is making 14% of it? A bench player/pinch hitter that’s who. A number 1 or a number 2 pitchers salary.
By JC from UT
October 31, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this
According to Chicago morning sports radio, Ozzie Guillen is so upset with Javier Vazquez that he couldbe had for next to nothing. I’m not sure Ken Williams feels the same. Vazquez would good in the 3 or 4 spot in the rotation behind ? and Jurgens….
By Lew
October 31, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this
KeyLargo-It’s like Scoots just said-That’s what I’ve been yelling all along. No way to get two $15 mil a year pitchers, re-sign Ohman, pay arbitration and other raises, replace someone like Yunel if traded (particularly if, as many suggest, we take Khalil Greene, too at $6.5 mil) and sign someone like Ordonez. Too much like that fuzzy math thing a Presidential Fuzzy Mathematician once spoke of.
Hell-Wouldn’t be enough left over for Wayne’s party and my flight to Atlanta-much less a nice cigar for DOB and some Pete and Skip’s BBQ..
By BosnianBaller
October 31, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
Whats with the braves prospect Cody Johnson.1st round pick a year before hayward.is he ready or trade bait
By richbrave
October 31, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this
DAVID O’BRIEN:
After last year’s performance I’m mark down that big acquisition in PENCIL not indelible ink. That said, as you point out, this year is not last year. The tenure of your comments and quotes from the BRAVES hierarchy have been resolute in tone in this regard.
By Lew
October 31, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this
JC-We were discussing Vasquez earlier. I would look into what he would cost us. I understand he is under contract for a couple more years around $11.5 per. He sure eats innings and has a lifetime 4.32 ERA. He would be a good mid rotation pitcher, helping to save the bullpen. If I were Boyer and Ohman, I’d chip in on his salary just for the few days of rest he’d represent.
Did I just hear the California Governor call a Presidential Candidate a Girly Man? Nothing surprises me anymore.
By richbrave
October 31, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this
HAPPY ALL-HALLOWS EVE SPORTS FANS. No matter your political proclivities don’t fail to vote by TUESDAY evening.
By richbrave
October 31, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
RENTERIA. Told to take a hike in DETROIT with 3 mill in his pocket. Washed up.? Maybe, maybe not. I think the guy would sign for 1 1/2 million and an incentive laden contract to play here again. He’d be great with NORTON, BARRETT or ESTRADA, and INFANTE off the bench in the event PRADO can’t cut the mustard after KJ’s in SAN DIEGO.
By Wayne
October 31, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this
Lew I sure hope the BBQ bash isn’t in jeopardy!
As for Vazquez, personally I think he is more of a 2 than a 4 for sure. On a strong staff, he would be a 3.
I truly believe we will see some kind of offer for one of the big bats in free agency or trade (Abreu, Dunn, Ordonez, Dye, etc) and ONE big arm, or potential big arm, whether it be Peavy or someone like Vazquez. I think the third arm will be more of a surprise trade acquisition, like say Edwin Jackson or Scott Olsen type.
Not necessarily one of the names I mentioned, but those class of pitcher/hitter.
The thing about Vazquez is that we might be able to get him without giving up Escobar. I think it is unlikely we get Peavy without losing Yunel.
Since I am not personally expecting the Braves to be playing in November of 2009, I think if we can keep most of our top prospects and get Vazquez, I think that would be a good start to a successful 2010.
What would it take to get Vazquez and either Dye or Swisher from the Go-Go Sox?
By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)
October 31, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this
I read where Andruw wants to come back to Atlanta. Well, I won’t say I’m totally against it but there is no way in hell the Braves should make a trade with the Dodgers unless they are going to eat at least $11 to $12 million and will accept marginal prospects.
I think Andruw is learning the hard way that money isn’t everything. He should’ve taken the deal the Braves offered originally and called it a day. Instead he listened to Boras. Yeah, he has lots of money but he isn’t happy.
I think a return to Atlanta would likely rejuvenate him but the question is will that reunion take place.
By N Nine
October 31, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this
One way or another, Peavy will go Tim Kurkjian
When Timmy talks, I listen. The guy knows his baseball. So why does he think Padres want to move him. The baseball world has known Peavy is available,and to this point no one has step to make this happen. It’s safe to say no way Hanson gets dealt for anything Peavy is great and his numbers show but also Tim Kurkjian was also saying how Jake’s a “maximum-effort guy”. I’m with Wren; we won’t give our team for Jake. He never had a complete game in his 07 CY year. This does surprise me a bit. I still love the guy and would be exciting addition to the ball club.
The always colorful Ozzie doesn’t want Javier? I guess he is good to go and at relatively cheaper price as Lew mentioned. Are we ready to call Javier as the “2nd”Starter we are look to acquire? Maybe not yet but decent idea. I like the DAP’s idea of throwing in Dye. Magglio is a great idea also. The Tigers need help in the bullpen and at shortstop and catcher. They don’t have the payroll room to support this shopping list, so a trade of Magglio Ordonez may be necessary. Ordonez, 35 in January, hit .317/.376/.494 in 623 plate appearances this year There are many bats to choose from, so I’m more focused in who is going to be our Ace. We need an Ace. Huddy will be missed.
A blog needs to be setup for RENTERIA. He is an option when/if-KJ/Yunel get shipped. Until then NO to the RENTERIA-Huggers. Sorry DOB we have beat “Huggers” to death. BTW i missed out on the Rollins comment from brian I guess it was rated XX?? Rollins is pesky and the Champions leader. We could use a fast good hitting leadoff hitter.
All i hear is the need for power not speed.
By Yars
October 31, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this
What are the odds of us keeping both KJ & Prado? I still say Prado would excel as a super utility guy than our everyday 2B. He can play the IF & OF. He’s the type of player I hope we keep. I think we have all come to the realization that Chipper will likely miss anywhere from 10-40 games next season. Prado did an awesome job for us in the super utility role. Let’s keep him in that role. KJ’s only flaw is his defense. I can’t see us moving him back to LF. If he is traded, could another team possibly see him as a LF? now playing: Opiate by Tool.
By N Nine
October 31, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this
Robert (Chipper Is The Best)
Yes Chipper is the best!!!!:)
MLB couldn’t touch Chipper’s skills!!!
I don’t want to “experiment” with a .160 BA Outfielder. We already have plenty of OF that rate as a 4TH OF…Diaz,Blanco,b.Jones,Anderson, and you can throw in Frenchy. His Production was 4TH outfielder Material. NO on A.J.
By Wayne
October 31, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this
Yars The only thing that keeps Prado out of the “super utility guy” role is that fact he really can’t play shortstop. He has no real range. It doesn’t hurt him as much at the other positions.
Besides, I thought Infante was the “super utililty” guy.
Also, while I like Prado and think he can be an asset, when he or Infante take over for Chipper, our 3 hole bat drops off drastically. Huge decrease in the effectiveness of our lineup. We need another hitter who can fill his shoes when he is out, could KJ be the man, if he stayed aggressive? How about Dye or Ordonez?
With the expanded pitching staffs these days (12-13 pitchers) it makes it hard to carry two Prado/Infante types. It leaves you vulnerable otherwise, which we were BIG time in 2008.
Anyway, the problem with ALL this discussion is it is just that, discussion; opinions, and we have absolutely no say in all of it.
“The waiting is the hardest part!” TP
By Wayne
October 31, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this
Robert (CITB): Long time, no chat.
Gotta tell you my answer is a resounding NO to Andruw. I think I read you saying offer to pay him 6-7 mil? and send them prospects. I would say if they wanted a salary dump, it would have to be that they pay 95% and we pay the rest. And we send them Scott Thorman.
In my scenario, you would give him the extreme ultimatum that he comes into camp at 200 lbs, or he is cut immediately. Also, the instant he does not willingly listen and DO exactly what TP asks of him, you cut him immediately.
While it is nostalgic to want AJ back, personally I think it is time to move on. I would love to have his 280-30-120 numbers back, I personally don’t think it possible. He is an old 31. Lots of years on those knees, lost at least a step or two in the OF, and was completely lost in the batters box.
The only positive I see in the whole AJ saga, is that the Dodgers got it handed to them. Scott Boras giveth (Manny), and he taketh away (AJ).
By richbrave
October 31, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this
HUG a RENT-A-RIA.
By homey j
October 31, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this
robert… you are tripping when it comes to dru. 11 to 12 million? please! how about 15.9. trade? didnt a minor league player get traded for bats? that would sound about right. I loved dru, but he’s gone, man. he aint coming back unless he pays the braves and proves he can take advice from a batting coach. a spa and 20 less pounds might rejuvenate his career.
By Yars
November 1, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this
wayne……..that’s just what us devoted fans do during the off season, we discuss! Hell man, I’m already counting the days to when pitchers & catchers report. This here Atlanta Braves team is a big part of my life. I speak for a lot on here when I say that! Only the die-hard fans are on here this time of the year. Braves baseball, family, God. In that order! now playing: pork & beans by weezer.
By N Nine
November 1, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this
True that Yars Your the mann! Bet your happy to get that computer back. Just in time for off season action! LoL
By mitchie-san
November 1, 2008 12:24 AM | Link to this
Anyone think that the Dodgers will just cut Andruw ans eat all of that salary? He has to be the least tradable OF (maybe all players) in baseball….I dont necessarily want him back, but if he came to camp unsigned…This whole thing sounds like Sosa a few years ago. Sorry, just thinking out loud…..
By Yars
November 1, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this
N Nine……man, not having a computer was a bummer. Not fun. I know a PC & the internet are luxuries & all, but during baseball season, it’s pretty much a must have nowadays. I refuse to watch Sportscenter. I had to rely on baseball tonight & the newspaper. Luckily, I was still able to catch every Braves game since I live in the south. Hell, I’m already stoked about the ‘09 season. Also, we do not need Andruw. I want to see Schafer, Anderson, & whoever else battle it out in spring training for the CF job. now playing: troublemaker by weezer.
By uga-brave
November 1, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this
was at chops tonight when a braves legend and his wife sat down at the bar.
ernie johnson sr. sat down before their table was ready.
i have met him a couple times before, and he still is a great guy at this advanced age.
kinda weird that skip is gone, pete retired, and ernie has been retired for a long period.
i know the braves are now looking for a new voice, but for the love that is all sanity do not include BOB RATHBURN.
when he was paired with TOM, it was borderline throw up material.
put boog in there he is the best play by play guy that we have had in along while.
joe and him work together.
phase out chip, i think we gave him a pass after his father died, but he is borderline terrible.
By uga-brave
November 1, 2008 1:22 AM | Link to this
prediction,
LEW, i know the snow is already pilling up, but the if dawgs hold the gators under 28 i think we will win.
then again the dawgs are saddled with WILLIE MARTINEZ.
for those that dont know WILLIE MARTINEZ he was MARK RICHT’S roommate at miami and we are saddled with him.
he will never be fired.
12 teams in sec and we have the 11th rated pass defense.
should be fun to watch right?
By ccrider
November 1, 2008 1:22 AM | Link to this
Maybe, we are looking at this backwards. Yes, we should try to work a deal for Peavy as long as we protect the prospects we deem needed to keep for our future, but if that doesn’t workout perhaps we first get an inexpensive up and coming pitcher and once acquiring that then we we be free to spend extra on the free agent of our choice. One name I haven’t heard mentioned is Jon Lanham from the Nationals. He had a 3.12 road ERA and was real tough on the Braves. The Nationals need players both position and pitching. We could help them with their minor league system, while helping ourselves. Resign Hampton, trade for Lanham and overspend a little for Lowe, Burnett, or take a gamble on Sheets. One Cheap starter that wouldn’t cost as much as Peavy in terms of propects , one expensive one who might be the ace. Lowe, Hampton, Jurjjens, Lannan, and either Glavine, Hanson, Morton, or Campillo. Something like this would leavve plenty of money for Leftfield, the bench and bullpen. 2010 Lowe, Hudson, Lannan, Jurjjens and Hanson.
By Brian
November 1, 2008 1:28 AM | Link to this
Dang! It was a joke!
By David O'Brien
November 1, 2008 1:32 AM | Link to this
Pretty impressive parade today in Philly — crowd estimated at 2 million, and that looked legitimate. Damn, that was a lot of people.
10 Phillies eligible for arbitration, five free agents (but only Moyer and Burrell are key free agents). I’m sure the Phils will be more amenable to paying all those arbitration raises now.
By mitchie-san
November 1, 2008 1:54 AM | Link to this
DOB Do you have any “dark horses” you think we can get for the OF since the free agent list is pretty weak? What is your opinion of Swisher?
By uga-brave
November 1, 2008 2:08 AM | Link to this
bravheart,
brothers?
jimmy carter and billy?
TERRY bowden and tommy bowden?
jeb and george
vince and bill dooley
steve spurrier and urban crier.
either way i would put the gators or the dawgs agsinst anybody.
but then again BILL MAHER is out there.
By uga-brave
November 1, 2008 2:17 AM | Link to this
get ready for a michael moore type of economy.
a yugo in the driveway and a chicken in the pot.
By uga-brave
November 1, 2008 2:25 AM | Link to this
michael moore is a super genius.
we are all so lucky that he has a opinion.
no politics on this blog.
i say we get magglio and vasquez. that would work.
get peavy add him to jjj and hampton and take our chances.
By Brian
November 1, 2008 2:39 AM | Link to this
uga-brave- completely agree with you and disagree with you at the same time.
DOB- I would seriously like to appologize to you and whoever for that post, but I really meant no harm. Kinda lame, I guess. Still don’t care for the dude one damn bit, though!! Those comments would NEVER come out of the mouth of a Braves player under Bobby Cox!!
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 1, 2008 7:41 AM | Link to this
Vazquez would be a good acquisition, especially at his salary and compared to what the FA pitchers are going to get. How about we get both he and Peavy? (:
By New Blog needed
November 1, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
Much needed….
By TommyP
November 1, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
uga-brave: Hmmm…that pass defense might have something to do with the worst DE production in the Richt era, wouldn’t it? The whole defense is predicated on pressure from the DE’s.
Henry Blanco is available on the FA market. Might be nice to see him as McCann’s backup.
I REALLY like the idea of making an offer for Vasquez.
With the Chisox being so down on him perhaps he’ll be dealt for less than what he’s worth.
I keep wondering if the Braves can possibly make Hampton a $5-8 million offer given all that’s happened the last 3 years or so.
His injuries weren’t limited to his arm. It seemed everything on his body was getting injured.
Let’s pass on Hampton for that price.
By Carroll
November 1, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this
Wayne: And you show a lack of knowledge of hyperbole. Of course Zobrist would have played short. And that would have made me feel about as good as if Francisco Cabrera had only tied the game back in 1992, and we would’ve had Ron Gant—an infielder by trade—playing short as a result of Bobby Cox’s ridiculous and irrational substitutions throughout that game. You just don’t take out a clutch hitter and huge defensive cog like Bartlett in that situation, period.
As far as Price, he is a starter by trade and was well rested so he could’ve gone 7 easily if needed. And yes Balfor had been good in the regular year, but had struggled in the post season. So even if you start with him, you quickly got a feel for how the game was going to go….so you quit playing around, and go with the closest thing to a sure thing that you have, PERIOD!!
Now Maddon and the rays will have to go through the rest of their lives regretting the fact that they didn’t lay all the cards on the table in a decisive game, and wondering “what if?”. And for those that think it’s okay because they’re a good, young team, and they’ll be back….ask Dan Marino and the Dolphins how they feel about that logic!
By Andy
November 1, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
Pitchers that I see the Braves inquiring in on: (In order of my preference) 1. Peavy-Obviously 2. Matt Cain-Unlikely we offer what they want in return 3. Zack Greinke-Unlikely the Royals deal him 3. AJ Burnett-agree with Chipper 4. Derek Lowe-Solid, postseason experience 5. Aaron Harang-Had a down year, workhorse 6. Javier Vazquez-Buy low, 33 yrs old 7. Bronson Arroyo-had a terrible first half last season. Has has had past postseason success. Workhorse 8. Randy Wolf-Not an exciting choice but would provide veteran leadership and would be pretty decent Other possibilities, but unlikely: Brad Penny-attitude issues, but we brought in Julian Tavarez(Schuerholz would never have done that.) Ricky Nolasco-He’d be near the top of this list, but Marlins won’t trade him just yet. Paul Maholm-same as Nolasco. Braves have shown interest in him in the past, but he really pitched well last season for the pirates.
As cox and wren have said, pitching is and should be the top priority. We need two front line starters. Jurrjens at 3, Hanson at 4, and throw in a campillo, morton-if not dealt, reyes-if not dealt, smoltz-if good to go then 3 slot, hampton at the five slot.
Hitting-we need a cleanup hitter, plain and simple. I really miss the Galarraga, Sheffield, and short but solid days of Tex. Chipper was really aided by Tex behind him. You have to have a big bobber at number 4. Adam Dunn-Not a huge fan of him, but OBS and hr’s will be there for sure. Will not provide good defense and will cost a lot. Magglio-a certain possibility. Will drive in runs. Would be a solid pick up. I could also see Wren inquiring in on Brad Hawpe, Ryan Spilborghs as lesser options than Magglio or Dunn, but are definitely very good bats. Yankees will listen on Xavier Nady if they add Manny. Nady will be in a contract year coming up. I do see wren checking on Raul Ibanez.
If Schaefer is not dealt, I can’t wait to see him in Center. If Frenchy turns it around and we aquire/sign that big bat for left field and add those two front-line starters we are looking excellent.
The pen will be good if Moylan and Soriano are okay and Gonzalez finds his groove again. Sign Ohman, and we are in really good shape.
By Lew
November 1, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
Think about this scenario. I don’t know exactly what it would cost in prospects for the two deals, but would leave plenty of money for a GOOD outfielder and would leave us with an excellent rotation for years to come.
Trade to the Marlins for Ricky Nolasco. I believe he is arbitration eligible for the first time. He also has a K to BB rate of WELL IN EXCESS of 3-1 and a reasonable ERA and WHIP. I think his future is going to be special. He pitched over 200 IP last year.
Then we trade for Javier Vasquez. Apparently he is in Ozzie Guillen’s doghouse and we might get him for a reasonable package of lesser prospects (I believe Nolasco would cost some better prospects like maybe Rohrbough).
Nolasco will make first time arbitration money and Vasquez is under contract for in the vicinity of $11.5 for each of the next two years. He is only 32 and eats innings.
Picture this as a rotation (not too sure who would pitch where, but…) Nolasco, Vasquez, Jurrjens, Hampton (sign him for a year), Morton/Hanson/Campillo. In 2010-Hudson, Vasquez, Nolasco, Jurrjens, Hanson.
Y’all, I think this would give us a very good YOUNG rotation and leave plenty of money for someone like one of the power hitting outfielders, arbitration and other raises and enough to re-sign Ohman and Norton. What do y’all think?
By Braveheart
November 1, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
New Blog needed ….. much needed*
Is it really needed? Or does someone need to join the 21st century, quit using Internet Explorer, upgrade to Firefox or Safari, and get a faster internet connection? Why are you still using Explorer and dial-up?
By TommyP
November 1, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
Lew: I don’t think Nolasco will be dealt.
Marlins increased their budget to keep him.
It appears they’re dangling only Olsen from the arb-eligible players.
By CMC
November 1, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
DOB,
When are you heading to the AFL? It would be great if you could give us an inning-by-inning update on a Tommy Hansen, like you did last year when Charlie Morton burst onto the scene. Rocket Wheeler is his manager. Is Rocket still in the Braves organization?
By Efrim
November 1, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
Lew
I haven’t heard of Nolasco being available. If he is, he would be a great target.
I worry that no free agent signings are going to be made this offseason. I understand that we have all this money available, but the Braves are going to have to take one risk. Are they really going to trade for all three of their needs? That would probably put a dent in the farm system. We finally have a chance to sign players and not deal talent from the farm. I’m not saying we shouldn’t make any trades. But I’d try to fill at least one of those needs straight from free agency. With 40-50 million available, I think we have the capacity to do so.
By keylargo
November 1, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
I REALLY like the idea of making an offer for Vasquez.
With the Chisox being so down on him perhaps he’ll be dealt for less than what he’s worth.
I keep wondering if the Braves can possibly make Hampton a $5-8 million offer given all that’s happened the last 3 years or so. TommyP
I’m going to ask you to reconsider your statement about Vasquez and Hampton.
Do you really want to trade 3 or 4 prospects for a player you admit that his own team and manager is down on? One that is owed $11.5 mm for the next two years?
Hampton is a risk but I think he is coming on strong. With a spring training and more conditioning, I think he will win 12 to 15 games next year.
Look at his last nine starts:
Aug 16 - 6 innings, 2 runs. Quality Start
Aug 21 - 6 innings, 3 runs. Quality Start
Aug 26 - 8 innings, 3 runs. Quality Start
Sept
By blueridge
November 1, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
put this thread out of its misery. DOB, can we turn the page?
By keylargo
November 1, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
Tommy P
I’m sorry for the premature post. I’m using a laptop with a touch pad and I just plain FU with this thing. I hit the post accidentally half way through. But here is Hampton’s last 9 starts again.
Aug 16 - 6 innings, 2 runs. Quality Start
Aug 21 - 6 innings, 3 runs. Quality Start
Aug 27 - 8 innings, 3 runs. Quality Start
Sept 1 - 6 innings, 3 runs. Quality Start
Sept 6 - 7 innings, 4 runs.
Sept 13 - 6 innings, 2 runs. Quality Start vs. Mets
Sept 18 - 7 innings, 2 runs. Quality Start vs. Phillies
Sept 23 - 6 innings, 2 runs. Quality Start vs. Phillies
Sept 28 - 6 innings, 3 runs. Quality Start vs. Houston
Pretty impressive I’d say. You can get insurance for a Hampton injury, but I don’t think they insure whatever it is that has Vasquez in the dog house.
By Lew
November 1, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
To me it doesn’t matter if they’re dangling Nolasco or not. Make them the Proverbial unrefusable offer. They ARE the Marlins, after all, and it’s highly doubtful they’re going to win much of anything, anyway. Sometimes you have to target a player and Git ‘er done. It’s not like they’re going to get a Peavy-like package for the kid and we have the pieces to make the deal.
By dgd
November 1, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
Vasquez and Nolasco might be interesting pitchers to pursue, but if Hudson and Vasquez are at the top of the rotation in 2010, that’s not exactly “young”. I know the other three guys would be in their mid 20’s at that point, but the top two guys would be in their mid-30s. I’m afraid that group might not be good enough to win now, and too old by the time the “young” component gets experience.
By David O'Brien
November 1, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
CMC, headed out there Nov. 8, two days after getting back from GM meetings. Will see Mesa play Nov. 8 and Nov. 10 (no games on Sundays). Hopefully Hanson pitches; I haven’t checked yet to count forward the days and try to figure out when his turn would be….
Braveheart, thank you for that 10:36 a.m. post. The blog had been up 2-1/2 days when “New Blog Needed” posted his comment. Apparently he expects new blogs every day or two in the slowest time of the baseball year for non-World Series participants, the period between the end of the season and the free-agent filing period when virtually no moves are made.
Guess he figures the blogmeister can take his time off at, uh, … well, at Christmas? Because he has to wait a few seconds more than he cares to for the comments to download? Right.
By Jeff R
November 1, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
He’ll make moves, and I bet he’d swap Escobar for the right hurler.
In which case, he should be immediately demoted to the status of blogger, for he will have confirmed that his tenure in Baltimore was not an aberration.
Of course, ncscoots, Wren doesn’t have to give up any real value in exchange for a top tier starting pitcher. He could just wait for the 2010 crop of talented young pitchers to come along. Or he can wind up signing good but second tier free agent pitchers this winter.
But from the reports I’ve read, Wren is serious about acquiring top flight starting pitching. Chances are he’ll have to give up quality to get quality. Ain’t many fire sales going on this winter, not, at least, for pitching.
I imagine Wren would be very relucant to surrender an Escobar. Understandable. It would have to be the right deal. But, again, based on reports, Wren gets that contending begins with pitching. It is the fundamental building block of winning teams.
Up-the-middle defense is Number 2 on the list, and giving up Escobar, even for Peavy, complicates the picture. But GMs, like anyone in business, need to prioritize and accept trade-offs.
A quality pitcher - an ace, in this instance - is much tougher to come by than a quality position player. I imagine Wren factors it that way as well.
We’ll see. If Wren can steal a Peavy away from the Padres or a Cain away from the Giants, I’m all for it. But today’s GMs are too savvy to give up real value unless they get real value in return.
Hence, a player the caliber of Escobar may be in play this winter.
By McFann O –[brr!]
November 1, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
Uga-Brave @ 1:08 re: Braves announcers—
I agree.
By McFann O –[brr!]
November 1, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this
DOB, Braveheart—
So true. New Blog isn’t needed just yet. Good lord, Lorn. Like you said, slow time of year…And 2 1/2 days is not that long. Not like we have 900 comments yet.
I really can’t stand it when some outsider tries to tell a person how to do his job.
Keep up the good work, Chief!
By David O'Brien
November 1, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
All that said, we’ll have a new blog up by tomorrow, because I want to get one up before heading out to the GM meetings.
Just checked, and it looks like, if Hanson is going every five days, that I should get to see him pitch on Nov. 8. Now, that could change if Wheeler’s giving his Mesa pitchers all an extra day of rest on Sundays when team doesn’t play. But he pitched Wednesday, and every-fifth-day sked should put him on pace to pitch Nov. 8 (he says, crossing fingers and all that).
By the way, dude’s putting up stunning stats, still. Got his third win Wednesday, and he’s 3-0 with only four hits and no runs allowed in 13-2/3 innings, with three walks and 19 strikeouts. Yes, 19 K in 13-2/3 inn.
How’s this for a nightmare for hitters: Hanson has hit almost as many batters (three) as he’s given up hits (four) in Arizona.
By David O'Brien
November 1, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
Medlen’s being used in relief out there and excelling, with a 1.64 ERA in seven appearances, and only seven hits and one walk allowed in 11 innings (with nine strikeouts). Fact that he’s being used in relief might indicate Braves have plans for him in their big-league bullpen this coming season.
By Lew
November 1, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
DGD-Their ages are totally immaterial. In 2010, Hudson will be 35 half way through the season and Vasquez will be 33-Hardly ancient (especially by today’s standards). Also, 2010 is the last year both are under contract. Add to that the fact that Jurrjens, Nolasco and Hanson will all be around 25 or under and I hardly think we’re dealing with a rotation with one foot in the grave (and don’t forget we will have Julio Teheran within a couple years of 2010, too). Remember we had two 40 year olds this last year. That is old.
By Lew
November 1, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
DOB-Hanson’s posting those awesome numbers and yet there are still plenty here who condemn we “Prospect Huggers” for wanting to at least see the Dude strike opponents out wearing a Tomahawk across his chest. Go figure. We must all be getting on towards senility because we think we may finally have produced a pitching gem in our farm system. The kid has been unreal and he is drawing much attention from our opponents, yet we’re all fools, right?
By mbatl
November 1, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
By the way, dude’s putting up stunning stats, still. Got his third win Wednesday, and he’s 3-0 with only four hits and no runs allowed in 13-2/3 innings, with three walks and 19 strikeouts. Yes, 19 K in 13-2/3 inn.
And I’m pretty sure that doesn’t include the 4 IP, 0 hits, 7 K’s in the Allstar game.
By David O'Brien
November 1, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
Rest in peace, Studs Terkel, dead at 96. Great American.
By ugacpa02
November 1, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
Exactly, there’s a reason San Diego wants Hanson. They’re trying to rip us off, we want to rip them off. The deal for Peavey will ultimately not include Hanson.
By Jeff R
November 1, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
Terkel was quite a character… always waving that cigar of his as he talked.
Hanson’s the real deal. Can’t wait for 2010 to see the guy do his thing from the mound at Turner Field.
By Billy Walsh
November 1, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
I think you will see Hanson in 2009, not 2010. Poor Phil Hughes, is he going to be another Brein Taylor or Todd Van Poppel? At least Van Poppel pitched in the majors. Santana for Hughes is looking better by the day. Hey DOB, does Texas Tech beat Texas today? The over/under in this game is 75. No chance that the Fish will trade Nolasco. I wouldnt go near Olsen. Hes a bit of a knuckle-head, his fast ball cant crack 90 anymore, walks a lot of hitters, and gave up 30 homers this past season. We dont need another Chuck James in the rotation. And please no Griffey or Andruw. Remember the rumors years ago (1998)? Griffey (when he was on the Mariners) for Andruw? Still wish the braves would pursue Adam Dunn. 40 hr, 100 rbi, 100 runs scored, 100 walks would look nice in the 4 hole. Sure he strikes out a lot, and has a Dave Kingman/Rob Deer like batting average. But he would solve many offensive problems for the Braves.
By McFann O –[brr!]
November 1, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
This Hanson guy rules!
As much as I’d like to see him in the rotation in ‘09, that could be too early…and we don’t wanna turn him into another Ho-Ho Reyes. Reyes had good minor league numbers, no?
By Steve from OH
November 1, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
Sooo…according to MLBTR, the Braves are meeting with Junichi Tazawa (hope I spelled that right) on Tuesday. Perhaps he is one that Frank Wren is heavily targeting?
By David O'Brien
November 1, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this
Billy Walsh, I agree: Hanson in Braves rotation in 2009, perhaps even out of spring training.
And yes, I really think Texas Tech will beat Texas today. Tech’s offense is as close to unstoppable as anything I’ve seen since at least the heyday of Oklahoma’s wishbone.
A week after my Jayhawks were destroyed by Texas Tech in Lawrence, KU is up 31-0 against Kansas State late in the first half. Granted, K-State is a bad team this year, but still, I think it also says a little about how potent Texas Tech is….
SALTYWOODY: Forgot to mention the other day a folksy-rock band you should definitely try: Crooked Fingers. They’ve got a new one out, but I haven’t heard that one. Get their CD Dignity and Shame from a few years back, if you can find it. It’s phenomenal.
By David O'Brien
November 1, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
What a day for college football, with Florida-Georgia followed by Texas-Texas Tech. Gonna have to tivo the latter, however — got a twinbill not to be missed tonight at Tabernacle: The Hold Steady AND Drive-By Truckers.
By Braveheart
November 1, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Peavy, Lowe, Magglio ……. that’s all that we should be talking about. All of the other talk ensures continued mediocrity and, I’m sorry, is really a terrible waste of time……….. As Jim Morrison sang, “The time to hesitate is through, no time to wallow in the mire” ……… I’ll pretend he didn’t overdose himself to death just a few years later ……..
3 years, $48 for Magglio
4 years, $63 million or 5 years, $81 million for Peavy
3 years, $48 million or 4 years, $64 million for Lowe with a backloaded contract to get Hudson’s contract cleared from the books.
The sales pitch to Lowe? Dude, you sucked your last few years in the AL. You’re a wormkiller. According to Bill James and John Dewan, we have a +15 defensive first baseman, a +10 defensive third baseman, and a +20 defensive SS. What Bill James and John Dewan are saying about our infield certainly agrees with what trained eyes are saying about them as well. That kind of a defensive infield is a wormkiller’s wet dream. Our pitching coach? Yeah, he was a notorious wormkiller just like you in his day so he should work well with you and understand what you’re trying to do.
I’m concerned with Lowe’s age but at least the contract he will get will be deserved and justified by what he has actually done over the last 3 seasons.
Burnett, Oliver, etc. will be grossly overpaid in relation to what their actual performance and innings eating has been over the last three seasons.
By McFann O –[brr!]
November 1, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
DOB—
Don’t forget Georgia Tech-Florida State! ; )
By Lew
November 1, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
Something for College Football Fans to ponder-The last time the Phillies won the World Series, the next College Football National Champion was Georgia. Hmmm..
By Efrim
November 1, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
I’m concerned with Lowe’s age but at least the contract he will get will be deserved and justified by what he has actually done over the last 3 seasons.
Well, I agree with you, but shouldn’t we pay for what we think they are going to do over the next 3-4 or 4-5 seasons? Paying for past performance can sometimes bite you in the arse. Personally, I like Burnett and Perez. But I like strikeouts. I’m sure FW will make the right decisions.
I also like that we are taking a look at the Tazawa kid.
By N Nine
November 1, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
Junichi Tazawa as the 2nd pitcher we need?
Tazawa is meeting with representatives from the Mariners and Braves on Tuesday. I’ve picked up on about six teams interested in Tazawa, with the most recent addition to the mix being the Phillies NPB
By N Nine
November 1, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
“I’m an everyday guy or I need to move out.” A Jones
Hey we can sign him for 300k next year!
Ok agree no need to go there..
By Joe M.
November 1, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
Junichi Tazawa will meet with the Mariners and Braves Tuesday. Now the Phillies are in the mix for his services, too.
Oh goodie. Instead of someone proven in the majors, we’ll get a Japanese guy just for the sake of getting a mysterious Japanese guy….like the Yankees with Kei Igawa.
By N Nine
November 1, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
Joe M
you just said Kei Igawa for no reason there. I’m sure you have no clue who Tazawa is.Have you watched him pitch??.so no need to go there(yet)
By David O'Brien
November 1, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
Ohman’s September slide dropped him from would-be “B” class free-agent status to C, which means NO DRAFT PICK for the Braves if he signs elsewhere.
That’s a disappointment for the Braves, no doubt. It would have been a supplemental pick between first and second rounds.
Wren told me today they have interest in trying to re-sign him, but he didn’t indicate their level of interest. They’ve already talked to Norton’s agent a couple of times, sounds to me like that could get done.
By David O'Brien
November 1, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Changed my return flight from Phoenix so I will definitely see Hanson pitch.
By N Nine
November 1, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
DOB, Is this the first time seeing Hanson Live? Should be very exciting. Can’t wait for your inside opinion on his stuff!!
By Lew
November 1, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
Won’t be any UGA National Champs if they keep playing like they did in the first half. That was basically ugly. One more loss and our chances are down the drain.
How about Michigan? Guaranteed a losing season-the first I can remember in a long time.
By Braveheart
November 1, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this
Mother Goose had it right. Georgia with Mark Richt will always be the girl with the curl ……
Nothing makes me happier than Auburn at 4-5. Alabama should be undefeated when they get to the SEC championship game. LSU ain’t got a QB and is overrated and Auburn sucks …..
By McFann O –[zzz!]
November 1, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this
Well, Tech’s on fire today!
Not that Florida State isn’t completely…
By Lew
November 1, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this
Between making their own mistakes and some extremely lousy officiating, the Dags have a pretty big comeback ahead of them. They’re going to have to play Dr. Jekyll to their Mr. Hyde, though-and do it pretty soon.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 1, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
Mark Richt will never be Vince Dooley and it is for one reason, D-I-S-C-I-P-L-I-N-E.
As in he does not know how to enforce it. All the talent in the world cannot succeed without discipline. All the penalties, missed scoring opportunities in the red zone, poor gamesmanship, etc.etc.etc. are the direct evidence of this fact.
Don’t get me wrong, Mark Richt is a fine football coach in his own right. But he lacks the ability to focus his football teams when it comes to the one characteristic needed to win Championships.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 1, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this
I have said it before and I will say it again, Magglio Ordonez will likely be staying put in Detroit.
Miguel Cabera’s 127 RBI and Ordonez’s 103 were the only two major offensive contributors in the Tigers offense. Nobody else on that team had more than 66 RBI.
That alone tells that unless Dave Dombrowski is planning on tearing his team apart, Ordonez is going nowhere fast. The Tigers would first have to acquire another major bat via free agency before even considering trading Ordonez.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 1, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this
Florida 35 Georgia 3 in the fourth quarter.
Anybody remember the little stunt that Mark Richt allowed his football team to pull in the Gators end zone last season?
He is paying for it right now.
By Steve from OH
November 1, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
Buyer Beware: Oliver Perez.
Thoughts?
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 1, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
Whew! Tech almost blew it! That guy shoulda just fallen on the ball in the in-zone, but thankfully he got it anyway!
Great game, though. One of the best football games I’ve ever seen.
By Lew
November 1, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this
That was decidedly unsatisfactory.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 1, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this
Oliver Perez makes Jon Garland look good, case in point.
Perez: career 55-60 with a .478 winning percentage.
Garland: 106-89 with a .544 winning percentage.
Here is Garland’s scouting report:
Assets:
Durable and dependable, Garland is a battler and inning eater. He gets ahead and challenges with his sinking fastball and uses a sharp curve and solid change to put batters away. Is always around the plate, so doesn’t give up many walks.
Flaws:
For a big guy he doesn’t overpower anyone. Despite his solid command Garland gives up too many homers and too many hits in general. Could stand to be craftier with his stuff.
Career potential:
Steady mid-rotation starter.
I have to take issue with this scouting report. Garland is more of a back of the rotation fifth starter than anything else. He fell off the wagon toward the end of the 2008 season (4-2 with a 6.29 ERA).
Garland stunk and said so himself and Mike Scioscia didn’t let the right handed Garland pitch in the post season.
I like Garland and have said as much before. He appears to be healthy and is about to hit free agency at the age of 29. But his value has dropped due to his late season collapse on the mound. I believe that he could be more effective in the N.L., However, I’m gonna flip a coin and gamble that he still has enough value to help Atlanta.
By nolie
November 1, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
It looks like Javier Vazquez is going to be dealt. Would they be interested in expanding that deal to include one of their outfielders?
I was thinking maybe we could trade Escobar for him. That would be an even deal. Think they would be interested Scoots?
By jrjags
November 1, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
As far as outfield options, what about Milton Bradley?
The guy can produce at an elite level. I know that in the past he’s had some problems with attitude and health. But he’s only a type B free agent so he would not require giving up a draft pick. He hits for power and average and has signed short term deals in the past. I think he’d be worth a look and call.
Any thoughts?
By Counting Flowers On the Wall
November 1, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this
I would give up Gorkys or Flowers,
now there’s your problem. Flowers shows more promise that many of the others that you have named IMO
By Steve from OH
November 1, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this
Here’s another take on Garland:
Garland has a solid sinking fastball in the low-90s but has been unable to complement it with another plus pitch. His curveball can be a good pitch, but he does not command it well enough. He does not do a good job of changing speeds and winds up in too many hitters’ counts, which helps explains how a sinkerballer could give up the fourth-most home runs in the AL.
Signing Garland would be a huge mistake for FW. Don’t tie up payroll in this guy.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 1, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
The Braves are not required to give up a first round draft pick due to their poor record (the top 15 teams are protected from having to cough up their 1st round pick). if Atlanta signs a type A free agent they would surrender their 2nd round pick.
Milton Bradley would be a gamble for sure. But well worth the risk.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 1, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
Steve, I don’t where you got that nonsense from. There were 17 pitchers in the A.L who gave up as much or more HR’s than the 23 that Garland did. in fact, there were 37 pitchers major league wide who gave at least that many.
Worse yet, both the Angels Ervin Santana (23HR’s) and John Lackey (26 HR’s) gave up as many or more HR’s than Garland did.
Don’t believe everything you read. look it up for yourself.
By nolie
November 1, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
According to the Fielding Bible results that just came out, Yunel Escobar was a +21 SS, second best in the majors.
Yeah he is great on D IMO too. Not sure whether he’ll hit any better than he has so far, but that’s pretty good anyway for a SS. I don’t see him as a huge star but well above average overall
By nolie
November 1, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this
October 31, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
*I’d take Oliver Perez on a 4 year deal for 12-13 per year. But I doubt he’ll settle for that. 4 year deal for 60 million? We’ll see. Gotta pay in this market. These pitchers are going to get there money. *
Not me. I am very leery fof him and leavinf Shea won’t help his numbers any either. Just not enough control for me.
By Steve from OH
November 1, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
Coach, that was from 2004, Garland’s fifth year in the bigs. Sorry for not clarifying that. Still another scouting report that has a slightly diffent take, though, since I know how much you love scouting reports.
Digging deeper, we find that Garland has only once posted an ERA lower than 4 as a full-time starter (career: 4.47). In addition, is K/9 has decreased almost linearly since 2002. His BB/9 rate has been increasing since 2006. His BB/K rate has been decreasing since ‘06. His WHIP has also been increasing steadily.
If you throw out his admittedly good 2005 season, his numbers look significantly worse, and the trends become much more pronounced. He has had exactly one good season out of 7 as a full-time starter. And people want to pay him 12-15MM a season for the next 4+ seasons? Doesn’t make sense to me.
His ERA+ is an uninspiring 104. His career Defense-adjusted ERA is 4.55 (4.50 is set as league average). Last season it was 5.09. His regular ERA last season was 4.90.
Bill James projects Garland to produce a 4.38 ERA with 93K in 186 IP. I would probably say that that is a bit on the high side, and he’s only going to go downhill from here, so even if he does manage to be league-averageish next season, don’t expect to see that continue over the life of his deal. For the record, Oliver Perez is projected at 4.53 and Jake Peavy at 3.26.
I’m sorry, but love or hate sabermetric stats (as well as the traditional stuff I’ve posted), if it looks like a duck, and has the stats of a duck, then it is probably a duck. Sorry. There is just no way to justify giving an average-at-best pitcher a long-term contract of 15MM/year. I daresay we could get league-average stuff out of Morton or Hanson in the 5 spot. Let’s endeavor to acquire some pitchers that are actually good this offseason, like Jake Peavy or whoever else tickles your fancy (except Jon Garland).
By mbatl
November 1, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this
A guy like Garland would be a good pickup if you’re a team with almost everything solved, but maybe needing one innings-eater to solidify things. For example, I think the Phillies could use a guy like him for next year.
I don’t think the Braves, who have exactly one proven starter (and he’s 22 years old!) need to spend bigtime money on him, though. We need 2 frontline starters, or else we need to save our money and “wait til next year.”
Hey Lew, if Vandy can upset FL next week, we’re right back in the driver’s seat for the SEC East. (I know, I know… it’s pitiful to be hanging our hopes on that. But I want to say something positive about my 1980 National Champion Georgia Bulldogs, and that’s the only thing I can think of…)
McFann, congrats on the Tech win… I’m not a Tech fan, but always glad to see them win except against the Dawgs. Good for you.
Are you keeping count? How many days til spring training starts? Some of us need it bad!
By Steve from OH
November 1, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this
Here is the 2009 ZiPS Projections for the Braves. There is a FAQ link at the bottom. ZiPS is reasonably accurate, but not at the level of PECOTA, in case you’re wondering.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 1, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
Yea, i thought so Steve. I saw the 34 Hr’s that Garland gave up in 2004 and figured as much.
That’s good stuff you posted at 8:27.
Garland isn’t worth 15 million. But if you look at his previous three year 29 million contract ( 2006-7M , 2007- 10M and 2008 12M) it’s apparent that his value hasn’t risen. He was just a bit overpaid.
‘m not going to change my opinion on Jon Garland. He is a slightly above average league pitcher who has consistently pumped out 30 plus starts and 200 innings over the past seven seasons with no hint of arm problems. That is value, no matter what the stats say. But, I would not give the guy more than 8 to 10 million per year with more than say two seasons guaranteed with a third year team option.
Scott Olsen would be far cheaper and he’s a lefty. But again, Olsen gives up the gopher ball with even more frequency than most major league pitchers. See his 29and 30 HR’s in 2007-2008.
One of the two would be fine in the fifth slot, but not both. That’s too many baseball’s flying over the fence.
By nolie
November 1, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
No way to get two $15 mil a year pitchers, re-sign Ohman, pay arbitration and other raises, replace someone like Yunel if traded (particularly if, as many suggest, we take Khalil Greene, too at $6.5 mil) and sign someone like Ordonez. Too much like that fuzzy math thing a Presidential Fuzzy Mathematician once spoke of.Lew
I have never thought that there is much chance of them re-signing Ohman. Still don’t, really.
By Joe M.
November 1, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this
Andruw Jones? Really? His past season made Francoeur look like Chipper Jones.
By Braveheart
November 1, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this
I think Garland and the ilk should be getting a deal similar to what Kyle Lohse got from the Cards - 4 years, $41 million. Lohse is a Boras client and, although many accuse Boras of getting more than his clients are worth, he often actually does nothing more than make sure his clients bingo what the salary scale dictates they should receive.
Lohse is an average or slightly better starter - somewhere between 25 and 30 runs, or 2.5 to 3 wins, better than replacement, or 5 to 10 runs, or .5 to 1 win better than average like Garland.
Here’s last year’s salary scale:
http://www.tangotiger.net/salary2008.html
Just multiply the salary figures there for last year’s salary scale by 1.1 to reflect 10% growth in the free agency market. Figure out how many runs (or wins) better than replacement said free agent pitcher is, figure out how many years you want to give him and that’s how much he should be rewarded. Boras’ clients often bingo this scale.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 1, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this
Thanks, mbatl! My Dad went to Tech, so we bleed white and gold!
I’m not a Tech fan
Aw, I’m sorry…tough loss for your team. Sorry (to you, too, Lew)!
But…can’t be too sympathetic! We’ll beat ya this year ; ) (Oops…I think I just jinxed us!)
Night, all!
By J-dubb
November 1, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this
I know this is way off subject, but this is really weird and I know many of you are from south GA. At approx. 8:30-8:45 pm tonight(11-1-08), my fiance called me to the back porch and pointed out what I first thought was the moon in the sky, only in the wrong spot and kind of red looking. It was crescent shaped, very bright, and very large, like I said at first glance, I thought it was the moon. Then it started shrinking very quickly. We called the kids, but by the time they got there, It was about the size of the North Star. Then it just dissapeared all together. Did anyone else see this thing? Anyone even driving that direction would have had to have seen it. It was just very strange & I felt like I had to tell someone else. Could it be a comet maybe? It didn’t seem like it. Anyway, please comment if you saw it too.
By the way, I think we need to get Peavy, just not at the cost of Hanson….I would also hate to lose Escobar though.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 1, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this
The one guy who just filed for free agency and has me doing back flips is Ryan Dempster.
He’s not an ACE type pitcher but certainly can be described as a two starter. His 17-6 twenty-one quality start 2.96 ERA season in 2008 was outstanding. But what keeps blowing my mind is his home record at Wrigley field (14-3 with a 2.86 ERA). That should be impossible, but it happened.
The man keeps himself in top notch physical condition and is a tough competitor. Then when considering that he won 14 and 15 games back in 2000-2001, I don’t think this past season was a fluke.
The Braves would be making a mistake if they don’t take a good, long, hard look at the right hander.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 1, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this
Texas Tech 29 Texas 13.
Alabama is about to be number one. ROLL TIDE !
By N Nine
November 1, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this
McFann, congrats on the Tech win
McFann, sounds like your a tech fan. Are you going there? Anyways Congrats on nice win. This should assure top 25
Coach
I wanted to talk to you about Magglio. You stated earlier that you feel he will stay. Just yesterday DOB talked about Magglio, on how Braves will consider him. I like the guy and could resolve the major power issues in OF. I think he will be traded for the RIGHT price. Detroit has issues and needs to somewhat dump his salary to attend on other needs.
By Wayne
November 1, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this
On free agent pitchers, there are a few worth pursuing, and I guess if you get a guy for what you believe is a fair salary, whether it be Dempster, Burnett, Lowe or Garland, then it is a good deal.
For the most part, these are 2-3-4 position starters at best. Only Peavy and CC are at #1 position status.
Many many teams will start 2009 without a legit #1. I fear that if we don’t get Peavy, that will be our fate also.
But, I don’t necessarily think it is the end of the world. My guess is that the Braves have their pecking order, and will make offers. So long as we get a couple of arms capable of giving us 180-220 innings at league average or better, I think we will be much improved. Maybe we will get lucky, and catch lightning in a bottle this winter.
So, what I am saying is that if the others are going elsewhere, Garland at 10-11 mil per would be acceptable, and probably be a big help in ATL.
DOB When are you watching Hanson? We will look forward to your report.
What if we offered a package (no Escobar) to the Go-Go Sox, could we pry away Vazquez AND Dye or Swisher? They don’t need Escobar with Alexi Ramirez moving to SS.
By uga-brave
November 1, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this
aye caramba! uga-brave has a headache.
urban myer hung it on us today.
i have no problems with him calling those late timeouts.
if you want to act like a jackoff, you got to expect to be treated like one.
congrats to the gators and tebow they were better.
i will especilly give a thumbs up to tebow. he is a class person and a great competitor.
it hurt, but tebow is a class guy.
By N Nine
November 1, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this
*McFann oh ok i Just read that(Oops…I think I just jinxed us!) haha
Go Braves
By N Nine
November 1, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this
“(Agent Scott) Boras, according to a rival executive, is trying to sell catcher Jason Varitek to the Tigers as a replacement for another of his clients, Ivan Rodriguez Detroit Free Press
Ha! I rooting for Boras for a change. I want him to rip off Detroit(prob. not happening) and have Tigers force to Dump Magglio to us. Boras, The Great White Shark
By mitchie-san
November 1, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this
I am happy that Tech won today. I will take a win anyway we can get it! Great game…
The Dempster talks???? I am all for that! Get him in Atlanta!
By cabravesfan
November 1, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this
THANK YOU TEXAS TECH!!
By N Nine
November 1, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this
Wayne
I agree on your 11:11 comments except maybe leave out Garland. His name seems to be overrated. As always, Steve From OH posted good information about Garland earlier today.
By N Nine
November 2, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this
DOB, you are right again. Last week you declared Texas Tech as a solid top 5 team.
Saw They got an early lead and I knew with confidence #1 team would go down.
By uga-brave
November 2, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this
that every year i get my hopes up. for 14 years or so i lived and died with the braves in the postseason.
even bfore the great run i loved bob horner, murph, claudell, raphael ramirez, terry harper etc.
mark wohler’s hanging slider still hurts.
jeff reardon’s pitch still HURTS
facing kevin brown every year when he was good still hurts.
come to think of that, we had to face kerry wood and mark prior when they were dominant. neither are now.
had to face schilling and the unit.
not making excuses but we never beat a pitcher that i thought was better then us.
that makes the dawgs debacle hurt more.
macfaan,
i guess i will have to bet you a bag of skittles when the dawgs and the jackets play.
props to paul johnson and the jackets, he has won everywhere he has gone.
good darn coach.
if only clemson ever had a decent coach, right scoots? LOL.
By N Nine
November 2, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this
i guess i will have to bet you a bag of skittles when the dawgs and the jackets play
Lmao:)
By N Nine
November 2, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this
She still has plenty skittles leftover from Halloween. Try finding Butterfinger BB’s to bet on.
By uga-brave
November 2, 2008 1:32 AM | Link to this
braveheart,
wait till lsu kicks bama’s arse. yea bear bryant.
no doubt we got beat. but i agree with some of the players comments.
we short sided the field to them.
they were the better team today.
be careful you tide fan it all comes around.
By Braveheart
November 2, 2008 1:57 AM | Link to this
“The game was closer than what the scoreboard said,” Moreno said. “The score didn’t at all reflect how the game was played,” Mohamed Massaquoi said. “I thought we were better team this game — just a few turnovers held us back,” Curran said.
Are you friggin’ kidding me?!?!? LOL. What a joke.
By N Nine
November 2, 2008 2:00 AM | Link to this
That GM Meeting couldn’t come any sooner. I’m lacking some baseball action.
One bold move needs to be completed before its all set and done.
Maybe Peavy?
By Wayne
November 2, 2008 2:15 AM | Link to this
N Nine My point of including Garland isn’t necessarily that I like him or not, or that I think he is better than some of the others or not. My point was, if we get Garland for what FW considers a fair price (it is his money to spend), he will still probably help us in 09.
Will he be as good as some others, nah. WIll the others be interested enough in the Braves offer to come to ATL, it’s anybody’s guess.
So, if he is the only legit rotation guy that we can get off the FA pile, I would be OK with him.
Personally, if I were the GM, besides making an offer to the Padres for Peavy, I would also be making offers to the Giants for Cain, and to the Jays for Shields, and to the Sox for Vazquez (and probably a few others).
Maybe he is doing this already.
It is 1am roughly in Utah. I hate having to wake up at 2am to turn my clocks back an hour!!
Have a wonderful November 2nd, my friends!
:-0
PS: Who won the football games today? I worked in my garage and yard all friggin day, and I am one sore puppy tonight!
By Brian
November 2, 2008 2:20 AM | Link to this
N Nine- I’ll bet all of my money, which ain’t much, that Wren has already worked out a deal for Peavy. The Pads are just holding out for some other offers to see if the Braves can be beat. It’s going to happen, and O’Brien has to know all of this. It’s the smart thing by him not to post it because it could get crazy but who else would beat us out for Peavy, considering there’s only like 2 or 3 teams in this anyways.
By Wayne
November 2, 2008 2:29 AM | Link to this
In case anybody is curious, the Jazz are 2-0, without Deron Williams, out with a sprained ankle.
N Nine, I can’t believe you are still up!
Hey, usually the GM meetings are not filled with a lot of deals, but I think this year might be a little different.
Last year, the Twins waited too late to deal Santana, and got a lesser deal than was offered early.
I fear we are going to be disappointed with who will go to SD if we make a Peavy deal.
My guess is Escobar, Schafer and Morton. I would hate to lose any of those guys, but then again, I am a prospect hugger.
It pained me to lose Harrison and Salty in the Tex deal, along with those other youngsters (Andrus and that righty pitcher)
I am dog tired, have a great night!
By Wayne
November 2, 2008 2:34 AM | Link to this
Brian: I think you give Dave too much credit, or underestimate the secrecy of FW and the Braves organization.
You might be right that they have a firm offer on the table. I think if FW is smart, he will put a time limit on his offer, and go the the Giants and the White Sox to make plays for their guys.
Cain and Vazquez are not the pitchers that Peavy is, but they would definitey help out significantly. I really think Cain is going to come into his own in the next year or so.
By N Nine
November 2, 2008 2:39 AM | Link to this
Wayne
That was how I read your statement as but you did say 11Million would be acceptable.
I think we can get Hampton for less and he pitched better in 2nd half.
Garland is not John Garland of say 2006.
I say stay away from this guy. Maybe 7M if all options fail…at best.
I would be happier if we let Hanson get experience than lose with Garland. It could get frustrating with him.
By Brian
November 2, 2008 2:46 AM | Link to this
Wayne- That Cain is filthy! I’d love to have him too! I’m wore out myself, so I’m bloggin out
By N Nine
November 2, 2008 2:49 AM | Link to this
N Nine, I can’t believe you are still up!
LoL..I know its late..That is how I am! I could be posting at any part of day…Day or Night -Rain or Shine
Brian I am hoping something happens! Not sure about the whole DOB theory!? !Adding Peavy at the right price would be amazing
By Wayne
November 2, 2008 2:54 AM | Link to this
N Nine (why am I still up???) The biggest difference between Hampton and Garland is that Garland has been extremely healthy. No arm troubles at all.
I hear what you are saying, but what happens if Hampton falls in the shower and missed 3/4 of the season?
As far as the $$ is concern, what I was thinking (maybe I didn’t make it clear) was that if Frank Wren thought that was a good deal, then I think he would help us.
I am not as dire on Garland as my friend Steve might be. I think he could be a solid starter, and not the #5 man. I think you are way low at 7 mil. I think it will be 10-12 per year for 3-4 years. Just my guess. CC and Lowe will raise the water level up for the others.
I also think a guy like Looper might be a possibility, especially if we land Peavy.
Personally, I would be happier to give our guys a shot (Hanson, Reyes, Redmond, Medlen, Lerew, etc), but to be honest, if we want to blog realistically, we have to understand the motivation of the Braves. They are not going to hang with the kids in 2009. They legitimately want to win now, if any way possible.
That is why I expect Escobar to be a Padre, and for Peavy to be starting on opening day, whether we like the deal or not.
Whaddya think?
By N Nine
November 2, 2008 3:06 AM | Link to this
I’m a Yunel Fann. We have a solid backup in SS- so yes, Lets get Peavy!! (sorry YunelFan!) Starting Pitching was the Key to our run in ‘90’s.
As far as 2nd pitcher after Peavy…Many options to look at and might take a while. We are going to discuss with Tawaza dude soon.
By ncscoots
November 2, 2008 6:20 AM | Link to this
Yes, this all makes sense to me now. Focus on pitching, pitching, and pitching. Trade Escobar and Schafer, if need be. Leave LF a black hole offensively (hey, Braves got pitching), give 500 AB to Anderson in CF (hey, we got pitching),and open up a hole at SS (but, hey, we got pitching). Got it.
Bloggers can choose among themselves as to who gets the pleasure of explaining to said pitching as to why “run support” is just a word in the dictionary.
Maybe the extra hour today will give some here a chance to turn their brains back, too.
By Kenneth
November 2, 2008 7:26 AM | Link to this
Free agents can only talk money with their present club for 15 days. What a joke. What else would they talk about. Greed is the only reason they even go to free agency in the first place. I would like to see one season where all the free agents sit out the entire year because of their greed and the greed of their agents.That would stop some of this greed and make a player earn what he makes.
By Steve from OH
November 2, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this
Scoots, you’re cracking me up this morning, lol. Our outfield is probably our biggest question mark next season, and some of our peeps here want to trade our top CF prospect who will probably be big-league ready out of ST in favor of…Josh Anderson. Oh, wait, is that Jair Jurrjens standing on top of that tall building?
Also, I have AFL updates if anyone is interested: last night, Van Pope and Tyler Flowers both homered for Mesa, Flowers was 2-4 with a HR and a double, and Pope was 2-6.
This brings their overall totals (small sample size alert) to:
Flowers: .419/.510/1.023 (1.533 OPS), 6 HR
Pope: .318/.375/.432 (.807 OPS), 1 HR
Marek: 7IP, 5H, 0BB, 3K, 0ER, 0.00 ERA
Medlen: 11IP, 2ER (1.64 ERA), 7H, 1BB, 9K
Heath: 8.1IP, 8 ER (8.64 ERA), 3HR, 8H, 5BB, 5K
And, last but certainly not least, Tommy Hanson, who has posted the rather pedestrian line of:
13.2 IP, 0ER (0.00 ERA), 4H (0.91 BAA), 3BB, 19K (not including his 4IP, 0H, 7K performance in the Rising Stars game).
By Lew
November 2, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
Now I’m as big a UGA Homer as I am a Braves’ Homer and am proud of it. However, the comments by Moreno and Massaqua have me somewhat confused. I know they were at the same game I watched, but I’ve got to say I saw things differently and that the few calls that went against us would not have appreciably altered the outcome of the game. Running up and down the field between the 20’s and not putting the ball in the end zone is not conducive to winning and neither is missing Chip shot field goals-The final yardage stats look even and nothing else.
Time for the kids to face some facts here-they got their a*******e$ handed to them (twice now). Making excuses is not going to change the situation. They got beat pure and simple and until they realize they played like a medicore college football team that shot themselves in their collective foot, they will not beat teams of the caliber of Florida and Bama. They are elite at this point. The Dawgs are merely good. They’ll probably win out the rest of their schedule and get into a decent bowl game, but they are NOT a top ten team right now. Maybe not for the season.
By David O'Brien
November 2, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
Brian: I think you give Dave too much credit, or underestimate the secrecy of FW and the Braves organization.Wayne
I agree. Wholeheartedly.
But I was right about Texas Tech, which has nothing to do with anything else we’ve discussed (oh, except ‘Bama’s ascendance to No. 1 when the new polls are out.)
EPIC ROCK SHOW last night at Tabernacle. The “Rock & Roll Means Well Tour” with The Hold Steady and the mighty, mighty Drive-By Truckers.
Seriously, my ears are a bit hollow-ringy today, or something like that. We were down front, third row of folks standing behind the barrier in front of the stage.
By nolie
November 2, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
Flowers: .419/.510/1.023 (1.533 OPS), 6 HRSteve
I was already high on this guy. Could end up being a better hitter than McCann, but everybody just casually consigns him to the trade me pile. I think he’s about as good a hitting prospect as we have, …oh no, am I becoming a prospect-hugger too?
By BravesFanInRockies
November 2, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
Folks, that Texas-Texas Tech game was one of the most exciting I’ve seen … in a week or two. Seriously, this has been an amazing college football season.
Back to business. The “buzz” about Jon Garland? I’m not buying it. As another denizen said, he’s going to expect Lohse-like money, over $10MM a year. And as Coach said, he’s a back of the rotation pitcher at best.
I’d rather take a flyer on Braden Looper for fewer years and a lot less money. He’s pitched better than Garland the past two seasons anyway.
Not that I’m making a pitch for Looper, because I’m not. But Garland will make you curse or cry very quickly.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 2, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
N Nine—
Thanks! Huh, they sure as heck better be in the top 25 now!
Yeah, I’m not in college yet. Few more years to go. And as much as I like math, don’t know if I could handle Tech!
Uga-Brave—
Thanks. I do have some bags of Skittles left over (well, we don’t Trick-or-Treat anymore, but we buy some stuff. Hey, they go good deals the day after! we give stuff out, too…if anybody comes).
Anyway, Butterfinger BBs were my fave…but like all my favorite things, they quit making them (surprising that the Braves gave BMac a contract, LOL)…like now I gotta sit here with a sore throat and NO Cherry Gatorade!
Now I just gotta settle for Butterfinger bars and fruit punch!
; )
Nolie Could end up being a better hitter than McCann
Hey! Whoa man! Watch your tongue!
Sorry…I know it is possible……maybe……
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 2, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
Oops…one more thing, Uga-Brave—
Tough loss for your boys for sure. Rest assured that they only have one more comin’! Know what I mean?
And hey, they still got the bigger picture in the paper! As a matter of fact…the week they didn’t play they still had a bigger picture…
By N Nine
November 2, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
McFann , You really enjoy math or just like adding up Mac’s doubles total?
You can handle Tech,Your smart and like the school.
:)
By jim
November 2, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
I’ve noticed from the AFL batting stats that Flowers and Wieters (Minor League Player of the Year) have about the same number of ABs, 43 to 46, but Flowers is hitting about 100 points higher and has 5 more HRs. And Beau Mills, the key player traded by the Brewers for CCS, is hitting in the low 200s. Now fewer than 50 ABs in a developmental league do not necessarily indicate much about who will be the better Major League player, but they should illustrate 2 things: (a) Flowers may be way better than an extra chip to throw at the Padres to land Peavy, and (b) Just how much more a package such as the one mentioned earlier (Yunel, Morton, Schafer) would be than the return that the Indians, Twins, and As got back for Santana, Sabathia, and Harden. More too than the As got for Haren.
By nolie
November 2, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
(a) Flowers may be way better than an extra chip to throw at the Padres to land Peavy, andJim
wouldn’t surprise me at all, I love the plate discipline he has evidenced so far
By Efrim
November 2, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
I’m glad I missed all of that Jon Garland talk last night. Talking about pitchers like him give me a headache. Sounds like the Red Sox want to pursue Tex. They could just want to drive up the price on the Yankees or Angels though. It would be a smart play on Theo’s part.
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
November 2, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
UGA-Brave
You are forgetting when ATL had to face The Astros and Clemens-Pettite-Oswalt the last two years they were in the playoffs. Thats the most fierce trio you can possibly face in a 3 game series! Especially with Clemens and Pettite cheating…
By N Nine
November 2, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
Efrim
Ya, you didn’t miss much!
It’s safe to say most are against Garland and not worth talking about anymore. I’m glad we can push that idea aside!
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 2, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
N Nine—
It’s a little bit of both!
You can handle Tech,Your smart and like the school.
Thanks. You’re too kind!
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 2, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
Yep, Braden Looper is one of those pitchers that doesn’t get a lot of ink. He just shows up every fifth day and does his job. He pitched at least six innings in 22 of is 33 starts with 16 quality performances on the mound in 2008. his career 58-58 and 3.93 ERA spells back of the rotation inning eater. He is definitely worth a look.
I watched the second half of the Texas/Texas Tech game last night and it was one hell of a fantastic finish. College football doesn’t get any better.
Alabama is going to be number one in the polls. The rolling herd finally has a great head coach in Nick Saban. All the man has already won a national championship at LSU and he may do it again in Tuscaloosa.
By Wayne
November 2, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
Efrim, Scoots, N Nine, all others
Please don’t get me wrong on Garland. I am not advocating him as our top acquisition for the rotation. I am saying if we are unable to get any of the others (Lowe, Burnett, Wolfe, Dempster, etc) then he might be better than not getting anything. For all his faults, he is an innings eater and healthy.
Both of those would have been a godsend in 2008.
Just sayin…..
By Sorry Yunel Fans
November 2, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
The fact is Escobar was an old first full year rookie who put up bleh hitting numbers that were worse than the much maligned KJ’s: lower OPS, lower VORP and a negative RCAA for Escobar. I’d ship him out-of-town for Peavy in a heartbeat.
Jake Peavy > Yunel Escobar
By Joe M.
November 2, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
Flowers may be way better than an extra chip to throw at the Padres to land Peavy
Again, the prospect-huggers show that it only takes a couple of weeks of good play to make them think anyone is the next Babe Ruth. The AFL? Seriously? What is next? Spring training performance?
As someone else said: any prospect who has any success at any level in the Braves’ minor league system for any week-long+ period of time is enough for the prospect-huggers to talk of never trading them for anyone. Good grief.
With the ever-growing list of “untouchable” Braves’ prospects (all it takes is a good week to make the list), one wonders if the Braves can ever trade for a proven player again without angering these people.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 2, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
Wayne, most of the good folks who blog here don’t really grasp why I bring up guys like Jon Garland and Braden Looper. The Braves starting pitching is in shambles. It is the reason that Frank Wren has made pitching his first priority.
I’ll put it in perspective. As mediocre as Jon Garland is, he actually won more games (14), made more starts (33) and pitched more innings (196.7) than anybody the Braves put on the mound in 2008. That’s just how bad the Braves starting pitching is. Maybe I should just re-post my evaluation. I don’t think very many people read it.
By Efrim
November 2, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
Wayne
I am saying if we are unable to get any of the others (Lowe, Burnett, Wolfe, Dempster, etc) then he might be better than not getting anything.
I don’t know about that. He is pretty awful. I would rather have Jo Jo Reyes or Jorge Campillo in the rotation than give Jon Garland 4 years and 40 million. Unfortunately, some team is going ot give him that contract. Hopefully it isn’t the Braves.
Coach
Looper is, at best, a #4. I worry about Card pitchers leaving Duncan. I’d stay away from him. Braves aren’t really looking for back end guys, are they? I think we have plenty of options at the #4 and #5 slots. We need front line guys.
By ccrider
November 2, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
Joe M.: I don’t know who you are or where you come from, but it’s obvious from your short time on this blog that you haven’t studied baseball much. Why don’t you ask the Rays and Phillies how they got to the World Series. I’ll save you the trouble, PROSPECTS growing into stars. The Yankees, despite their money, missed the playoffs this year because they traded all their best prospects and when injuries arose they had no quality backups to fill in the rotation, bullpen and starting lineup. Trades and free agency should be ways to finish off your team for the areas that your prospects didn’t fill, not trading away hoping for a quick fix. Your rants about the Braves being cheap because they don’t want to trade their top prospects for Peavy(who many believe has arm questions) shows you haven’t studied the history of the game. He who falls to learn from history, is doomed to repeat it.
By mbatl
November 2, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
Question for the blog:
What does it mean when (on COTS), it says the Braves have a $12 mil “mutual option” on Hudson?
I’m just guessing, but it sounds to me like that means “if both sides agree, then his salary is $12 million. But either side can opt out, and Hudson becomes a free agent.” Which is really the equivalent of no agreement at all.
I think we’ve all assumed Hudson back in 2010, but is that really a safe assumption? Assuming he comes back with any kind of effectiveness in late ‘09, he’d be crazy to accept 1 year, $12 mil, when he could opt out and get a 4-5 year deal.
Any thoughts?
By Joe M.
November 2, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
I don’t know who you are or where you come from, but it’s obvious from your short time on this blog that you haven’t studied baseball much. Why don’t you ask the Rays and Phillies how they got to the World Series.
Here with go with the Rays BS again. Guess what the Rays did to help them get to the World Series? They traded the top prospect in their system and IN THE GAME in outfielder Delmon Young for Matt Garza. If the Braves traded Heyward (who is not now the prospect Young was), for Peavy (a better pitcher than Garza) people like you would be throwing a total hissy fit.
The Yankees, despite their money, missed the playoffs this year because they traded all their best prospects
They also kept Phillip Hughes instead of trading him for Johan Santana, something they greatly regret now. Opps. Plus they’ve had more success this past decade than the Rays.
(who many believe has arm questions)
Who is this “many”? They don’t know squat. He went on the DL for a while and all of a sudden he is a lock for Tommy John? That’s stupid. And don’t you think the Braves would know more about Peavy’s health than anyone on this blog would if they were to trade away good, cheap players for him?
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 2, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Joe M, the reason why the Peavy trade has not yet consummated is because the Padres want two young top pitching prospects. The Braves just don’t have it to give, period.
Starting pitching is the Braves greatest weakness. Peavy is an ACE, no question. But, Frank Wren is negotiating from a source of weakness, not strength.
In other words, Wren want’s Peavy and our young arms pieced together in the Braves rotation because the man understands just how abysmal the state of the starting pitching is in Atlanta.
By Lew
November 2, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
JoeM-Dude, that’s the point he was making. You use your farm system not only to bring up ML ready ballplayers, but as pieces to acquire OTHER pieces. Look back to the Fred McGriff trade. Do you remember who we traded to get him? It was no one who ever made a name for himself in baseball. It was another prospect that the other team thought was going to be worthwhile. It didn’t work out. In the case of Jeff Bagwell being traded to Houston from the Red Sox organization, it did -at least for the Astros..
Now, no one is saying that every player who comes up through the minors is going to be Joe Stud, but some of them WILL be. Every star in the game today was once a prospect-many of them deemed untouchable by their teams. Others were deemed untouchable-simply because the home team wanted to see what they could do in a home team uni, because they thought they might be good. Some are-some aren’t.
Had you been on this blog long (and it’s not a criticism that you haven’t) you’d realize we’ve had this conversation numerous times for several years, at the very least. This is not new territory to us.
Now the Braves have had their salary chopped down for quite a few seasons now and have had to rely on their Farm System to provide them numerous players. Some have been good, and again, others not so good in varying degrees. Others were traded for players we felt would help us. Tim Hudson was traded to us for Chuckie T. Kotsay for Joey Devine. One worked out fine for us and one maybe not so well.
One major criticism has been the lack of top of rotation pitchers developed in our minors. There were likely several reasons for this (also discussed ad nauseum), but now we have a couple of kids who look better than any other pitcher we’ve brought up in the last decade or more- Tommy Hanson being the prime candidate. All we want is to see him in an Atlanta uniform and see if he can be our Jake Peavy or C.C. Sabbathia. Maybe he will and maybe he won’t, but there’s no reason why we shouldn’t at least see if we haven’t found our own Stud pitcher. Apparently many baseball people think so (the Padres among them), so maybe, just maybe there is something to the kid. We’d rather make sure with him wearing a Tomahawk and not a Padres uniform. So shoot us.
Now as far as Tyler Flowers goes. I haven’t heard anyone hugging him to the point of calling him untouchable. Just the opposite, in fact-many have called for his inclusion as part of a package for the pieces we need. No one knows if he will be a plus player, but those of us who have seen him play (myself included), from fans to scouts and baseball people, seem to think the kid has some pretty good talent and that he should be a good hitter, though blocked at catcher by Brian McCann. If another team likes what they see, like I said-no one is objecting to him going to another team. Why should it be otherwise?
All in all Dude, I can’t really see why you’re so vehement on the subject. It is what it is no matter how you look at it. Sometimes you’re right in your evaluation and sometimes you’re not. Seems like most of life’s decisions to me.
By Brian
November 2, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
What, is Dave on a hot date or something? We need some of his genius thoughts on the GM meetings coming up!
By Tom
November 2, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
Joe M.—
Your 3:22 PM comments are borderline ridiculous. Logical fallacies abound.
Regarding the Rays, several things:
1) Delmon Young was no longer a “prospect” when the Rays traded him. In case you didn’t notice, Young played 162 games for the 2007 Rays. Furthermore, they traded him for a guy (Garza) who was no less a “prospect” himself, having made just 23 major-league starts before the trade. Young was ranked #3 on Baseball Prospectus’ 2007 prospect list, while Garza was ranked ten spots behind him at #13. Either they were both prospects at trade time or neither one was, but don’t equivocate.
2) How can you say that Jason Heyward is not now the prospect that Young was then? What basis do you have for that comment?
To wit, their age-18 stat lines. Conveniently, both played in the South Atlantic League at that point:
Young: .322/.385/.538, 21.2 K% Heyward: .323/.388/.483, 14.6 K%
Batting averages and OBPs essentially the same. Young obviously showed more power at that point, but what has plagued him since then is his propensity to strike out. So what Heyward lacks in power, he makes up for by not being as prone to the whiff (which bodes well for his ability to move up). I fail to see how you think Young at 18 is so superior to Heyward at 18.
3) Way to focus on the one case that supports your point (well, actually, as I’ve shown, it doesn’t really support your point…but you think it does). What about Evan Longoria? B.J. Upton? Carl Crawford? James Shields? Andy Sonnanstine? And for the Phillies…Ryan Howard? Chase Utley? Shane Victorino? Cole Hamels? Brett Myers? Quite obviously, the Rays and Phillies should have dealt all those guys while the damned “prospect huggers” still thought they would be worth anything.
Regarding the Yankees point, the Yankees have had more success this decade because, well, the Rays were a two-year-old franchise when this decade began. Maybe you don’t really know how the expansion draft works, but it’s pretty hard to build a winning team right out of the gate. You could come back with the Marlins winning in ‘97, but they chose to sacrifice staying power in order to win sooner. The Rays, on the other hand, have some serious staying power. Or do you really think all their worthless 20-something whipper-snappers are going to fall flat next year?
Plus, the Yankees decided not to trade Phil Hughes, and you’re right…they wish they had done so. But look at the guys who were ranked in the general vicinity of Hughes on the ‘07 prospect list. I’m sure the Giants really wish they had traded Tim Lincecum and the Brewers really wish they had dealt Yovani Gallardo and the Dodgers really wish they had moved Clayton Kershaw. Because, you know, pitching prospects never work out.
Finally, your point about Peavy’s arm injuries. No, I don’t think the Braves would know more about Peavy’s health. They said Mike Gonzalez was clean, oh, about 17 innings before he had Tommy John surgery. I’m not saying the doctors are incompetent, but there’s more to being injury-prone than what you can discover in a physical. Peavy’s delivery is very violent (which correlates with injury, and which is not taken into account by doctors giving physicals). And whether you want to admit it or not, there is also a correlation between previous aches and pains and future arm problems. I’m not saying he’s a 100% injury risk, but I would say there’s a pretty good chance that he takes his turn on James Andrews’ surgery table sometime before his contract is up.
By David O'Brien
November 2, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
FRESH BLOG. NEW AND IMPROVED!
By John793
March 30, 2009 3:55 PM | Link to this
Very nice site!