Commutants!

By Joe

November 9, 2005 01:08 PM | Link to this

Jim, your comments about eminent domain would make sense if MARTA ever actually had that power available to begin with — MARTA does not have eminent domain power. In some cases, such as with the Sandy Springs station, the blockade to achieving density around stations has been short-sighted county commissioners.

Lindbergh station is another example. In this case, the neighbors realized that MARTA was building a transit-oriented development and complained — god forbid Atlanta residents be allowed to live near MARTA stations. In response to these shortsighted neighbors, MARTA was forced to build the residential development at about half the proposed density.

Again, it would be great if you had more room on the roads for yourself, and it would be great if I had more opportunities to use transit. It’s got nothing to do with economic or social justice as far as I and many transit advocates are concerned. It has more to do with economic development and choice.

It will likely take longer than it should to achieve density around MARTA stations, but it won’t take forever.

By Jeff

November 9, 2005 01:28 PM | Link to this

As a long time MARTA rail rider, I cannot agree with Jim Wooten’s comment that it has improved in the last several years. Quite the contrary, I see almost daily degradation in service, cleanliness and security. There are almost daily delays (nerver explained, neveera estimate on how long that delay will be!) in train service. Doors will not open or close, escalators out of service, turnstiles that do not read MARTA cards, panhandlers on the trains… The sad list goes on.

By Nancy

November 9, 2005 02:35 PM | Link to this

I’ve said it repeatedly in the past and I’ll say it again.

It is foolish and ridiculous not to have a rail system that travels up the center of I-75, 85, 20, 400 and all other major highways, with other bus routes connected at major junction points to ferry people to cars and various bus stops. To keep grabbing and stripping residential areas in order to build a system that must try to service residential sprall rather than residential density does not make sense, as Joe said. It also is not economically viable to sustain.

MARTA is a joke among those of us who have lived in other cities with good subway and mass transit systems. It is Atlanta wanting to look like a big city that knows what it is doing rather than what it is - a city that has divisified itself in so many directions that it has no clue of know which way is FORWARD.

By Rock

November 9, 2005 02:56 PM | Link to this

As another longterm (15+ yrs) MARTA rider, I also disagree with Mr. Wooten and have to agree with “Jeff”. It appears to me that the system is falling apart week by week. I ride the NorthSprings line to/from 5-Pts everyday and one never knows if the train will make it there or not.

I feel sorry for people heading to the airport - many times knowing that they failed to take into account the MARTA-Factor when they miss their flights. I’m also very embarrassed for visitors that have to endure the “crazzies” who also ride (and never get off).

It’s getting harder and harder to find an escalator or turnstile at 5-Pts that actually works. The only thing that makes it tolerable for me is that 1) my company provides a monthly Transit Card. 2) I can get alot of reading in. 3) Gas prices and parking prices are still high.

By Patrick

November 9, 2005 03:36 PM | Link to this

MARTA will never be a ‘market driven’ transit system, just as the interstate highway system will never be ‘market driven’. Pull the subsidies and both crash and burn. And no, the gas tax doesnt equate a user fee and no, it doesnt cover construction, maintenace and operational fees.

The closest anyone has gotten to ‘market driven’ passenger rail is in certain European nations and Japan. In all cases, the government has provided capital infrastructure costs (such as rail realignment, electrification, station construction, etc) while the operators were only responsible for operational fees (labor, fuel costs, etc).

If MARTA was able to use the sales tax completely towards operations, there would be no need to cut service, and indeed, service would be greatly expanded. Hell, if Jill Chambers would simply let the authority split the tax 45/55, with the 55% going towards operations, then the authority wouldnt have had to make the recent round of cuts and implement the annoying ‘peak, off-peak’ rail service cut.

By CL

November 9, 2005 04:03 PM | Link to this

Marta is very comfortable, but they do have their down side. Marta is not smarter when he comes to most rides during rush hour.Morning or Evening. There is always a problem. The biggest problem is the trains. And they always have more North Springs than they would have Doraville. If you have a train leaving at 4:15 and at 4:18 there is another train coming. That is how you push them out and then you wouldn’t have a problem. And then you wouldn’t more poeple complaining about how long they have to stand there. Those stations can get very cold in the winter.

By Yvette

November 9, 2005 04:21 PM | Link to this

Answer to John Doe about the baby strollers. Maybe you should have made sure you had a car before you had the baby.

By CS

November 9, 2005 04:43 PM | Link to this

In reply to Michelle Bolar Miller’s observations, I can attest that Memphis does have a superior transportation system than Atlanta. There isn’t a rail system, but the buses do run to most of the outer-lying neighborhoods (except to Arkansas & Mississippi, which both have suburbs of Memphis). I was born in Memphis and my mom commuted by bus in Memphis for years, and she was appalled that a city the size of Atlanta doesn’t have the resources to have a transportation system that reaches those most in need. Memphis is MUCH smaller than Atlanta and they addressed that problem in the 60s and 70s.

By Baxter Jones

November 9, 2005 04:49 PM | Link to this

The first place to look for development near MARTA stations is near the six stations which function like a big-city subway system: Five Points, Peachtree Center, Civic Center, North Avenue, Midtown, and Arts Center. These stations are in generally pedestrian-friendly areas, and they are spaced so that if one is almost anywhere in Downtown or Midtown, it is a short walk to a station. Also, because both the North Springs and the Doraville trains run through thses stations, trains are available twice as often as at stations north of Lindbergh. This is how successful subway systems in big cities function, and yes, there is loads of development going up around these six stations. If you look at Downtown and Midtown as one district (the two together are geographically compact), it is by far the biggest office submarket in metro Atlanta. MARTA works reasonably well within this area. I ride it several times a week between Arts Center and Peachtree Center. Farther out the stations are often in areas where you pretty much have to drive to and from the station. I believe Joe (above) is correct that MARTA has never had eminent domain power, unlike the DOT, which does not have to worry much about what neighborhood groups think. So MARTA is part of the forces driving intown development, leading to sufficient density to support a rail system (although we must remember that EVERY transportation system is subsidized). So, contrary to Jim Wooten’s belief, MARTA is helping expand the city of Atlanta’s population, leading to more riders, and the probability that the next expansion of rail will be in the city. That’s OK - buses can serve communities farther out.

By Mad As Zell

November 9, 2005 07:02 PM | Link to this

I don’t know about “Economic Justice” or “Social Justice”, but add a million more people to the roads to the already five million people in the metro area and you’ll see a demand for “rush hour traffic justice”. That kind of population spike isn’t impossible given the explosive population growth that Atlanta has seen in last decade or so. Although something tells me that the expansion of MARTA in its current form isn’t quite the right vehicle for that justice. Maybe a state takeover of MARTA and complete overhaul by GRTA should be in order because these types of traffic disruptions just can’t go indefinitely. An accident or simple maintenance at the wrong place and time and you see delays of three or four hours or more on 75, 85, 285 and sometimes 20 east on a really bad day.

By JR

November 9, 2005 08:18 PM | Link to this

State takeover? You’re dreaming. Why would the state want to take over MARTA?

By Mad As Zell

November 9, 2005 09:06 PM | Link to this

If the population keeps growing at this explosive rate and adding more and more cars the to the roads traffic could become so bad that there could be no other choice but drastic action like a state takeover or dissolving MARTA and putting it under GRTA. An ineffective agency such as MARTA just simply is not equipped to deal with the mounting traffic problems that we are starting to see in all of Metro Atlanta, besides would want to see MARTA expanded in its current form? Mechanical failures, lengthy delays of trains and buses, rude and uncaring drivers and just all around incompetence is a bad enough use of money in two counties. Before even daring to suggest expanding this terrible excuse of a transit service I would recommend that the state takeover and do a massive overhaul of MARTA because the state is providing most of the funding for the current disarray operates now. A new approach definitely needs to taken because on a regional scale new roads and transit aren’t being built fast enough to deal with traffic problems that are starting to reach their now, not 10-15 years from now.

By JR

November 9, 2005 09:24 PM | Link to this

Bad idea. The state doesn’t know anymore about operating MARTA than it does about operating the airport or taking over Atlanta’s sewer system. Besides, why would people in Valdosta want to be funding a bus system in Atlanta?

By Ricky

November 9, 2005 09:27 PM | Link to this

You say: “Congress and the General Assembly will pass laws within the year making it more difficult for government to take private property and transfer it to developers.”

You say this as if it’s a bad thing. Is that what you believe - that it’s bad? Eminent domain is in the Constitution so that government can take private property, for JUST COMPENSATION, for government use. It is NOT in the Constitution so that developers, who run up against people who do not want to sell their property, can do an end-run around the Constitution and get the property anyway.

Should government be able to take property for uses such as MARTA, roads, bridges, courthouses, etc? Yes. Should private developers pay for property they want to own? Yes. Should the government be able to take that property away and give it to developers? NO.

By Ray

November 9, 2005 09:37 PM | Link to this

I do not understand what Jim Wooten meant by politics influencing MARTA in Fulton and Dekalb since MARTA did not add one rail station to what the voters in Fulton and Dekalb approved at MARTA’s inception. In fact, MARTA did not complete what the voters approved. If by politics he means that the three jurisdictions (Fulton, Atlanta, Dekalb) turned down MARTA’s last request to extend their sales tax funding so they could build rail stations closer to Forsyth and Cobb counties, get used to it. Neither Jurisdiction will ever approve the sales tax extension until the state or more counties participate.

The political part of this is that Cobb, Gwinnett and Clayton counties have representatives on the MARTA board and have managed to get stations close to their borders but they are not required to pay the sales tax. They have representation without taxation.

MARTA will never be extended in it’s present funding setup. This is no longer the 70’s when Cobb and Gwinnett were considered hicksville, very few people had even heard of Forsyth, and Fulton and Dekalb were expected to pay for everything.

By Mad As Zell

November 9, 2005 10:04 PM | Link to this

If that’s a bad idea (though I agree that only taxpayers in the Atlanta Region should be funding transportation improvements in the Atlanta Region, not taxpayers in Valdosta), then I guess were in a situation of pick your poison because the state already provides money for GRTA which was created by Roy Barnes in 1999 and is supposed to be a tool of the Governor’s office to deal with congestion and development on a regional basis in North Georgia. The biggest thing that GRTA has done up to this point has been to create a few express commuter bus routes between different counties outside of the perimeter (the notable routes being from Douglasville to the Cumberland Galleria and from Hiram in Paulding County to Downtown Atlanta). MARTA is trying to reduce their annual budget deficit so that the Governor will give them more money. State taxpayers are already paying for Atlanta transit and traffic woes. Besides, with some regional leadership from the city of Atlanta and metro counties, funding could done in such a way that only Metro Atlanta counties (approximately 20+ counties around Atlanta) with the worst congestion and most (interested) commuters into the Central metro counties (Cobb, Fulton, Clayton, Dekalb and Gwinnett). Plus, an agency like GRTA with state oversight could probably do a better job of keeping a balanced budget than an agency like Marta which seems to have no oversight or accountabilty whatsoever while providing lousy service with consistent budget deficits.

By Joe

November 9, 2005 10:11 PM | Link to this

MAZ, I love your comment about “rush hour traffic justice.” Priceless.

There are several problems with placing MARTA under GRTA’s care. Namely, GRTA under Stancil’s care has been terribly ineffective. They paid too much for their busses. They’ve screwed up their scheduling something awful. At least MARTA gives riders an opportunity to speak out when they consider cutting or changing routes.

Also, take a moment to consider that GRTA is an arm of the governor’s office, and the appointment of the Exec Director is about as political as the appointment of, say, the FEMA director. Who here can say with a straight face that Steve Stancil is qualified for his job? I sure can’t.

It hasn’t reached the news, but based on what I’ve seen with my own eyes, a State/GRTA takeover is one of the worst possible options.

By Mad As Zell

November 9, 2005 10:29 PM | Link to this

Hey Joe: Yeah, your right, I guess were all screwed when it comes to finding traffic solutions because all of these on the city, county and state level seem to be totally incompetent.

By Joe

November 10, 2005 07:51 AM | Link to this

I wouldn’t say we’re screwed. Not permanently, at least. We, the voters, just need to demand the right level of accountability.

MARTA’s board includes representatives from counties that don’t have MARTA service, and representatives from the State. You won’t find many board members who actually ride MARTA, even among Fulton, Dekalb, and COA representatives.

The MARTOC committee in the State Legislature supposedly has oversight authority, but we’ve wound up getting one of two terrible extremes: 1: The committee just looks at MARTA as a sugar daddy and never holds MARTA’s feet to the fire; or, 2: The committee is filled with grandstanding politicians (current Chair Jill Chambers, for example) who create scandals out of nothing.

The solution: Redesign MARTA’s board to exclude counties that refuse MARTA service, and appoint board members who actually ride the system. Institue rules of conduct — a code of ethics, if you will — that MARTA’s board members must sign before joining. Also, dissolve MARTOC and shift oversight authority to an independent auditor whose oversight includes all transportation agencies and authorities (MARTA, GRTA, GCT, CCT, C-TRAN, GDOT, SRTA).

By MM

November 10, 2005 08:08 AM | Link to this

Fact: 40% or more of sales taxes in Fulton, DeKalb and City of Atlanta are paid for by people who do not live in those areas. It’s called tax exportability and is a big factor in selling sales taxes everywhere. All those 260,000 folks flooding into and out of Atlanta each day are paying sales taxes, including the MARTA tax and the Atlanta sewer tax. This is a good thing.

Fact: More than 85% of MARTA riders are residents of Fulton, DeKalb and City of Atlanta

Fact: The state has no intention of taking over MARTA, through GRTA or any other body. In Georgia, public transit is a county/city responsibility. The state helps with capital costs, the locals pay the operating costs.

Fact: As the commutants are finding out, public transit is woefully underdeveloped in this region. As CCT, GCT, C-TRAN and Xpress are proving, there is a market for more public transit.

Fact: GRTA doesn’t run public transit. It hires others to do it - from the private sector where there is a profit motivation to do it right. CCT, Gwinnett and the two GRTA/County systems C-TRAN and Xpress are run that way.

Fact: If you want more public transit you have to get on the backs of your elected officials - local, county, state and federal. If they don’t understand that it’s important to you - and that you will vote against them if they don’t step up to the table on public transit - then we’ll never get more of it.

Fact: It’s tough to build effective public transit when density is considered evil. Public transit works best when there are sufficient people to ride it. It can’t be on every corner if there are only 10 or 15 folks in each block.

Fact: A population increase of more than 2 million in the next 20-30 years. We don’t have the highway capacity - and can’t build it at an even vaguely reasonable cost - to accomodate them. We need more public transit as well.

Fact: Gasoline is going to get more expensive.

Fact: It’s time to do something. Stop moaning and complaining and start electing people who understand the problem and will get something done!

By Kathy

November 10, 2005 11:20 AM | Link to this

Sorry Jim, but you have to ride MARTA more than one day to get the full experience. I’m closing in on two years of daily commuting, and this fall has marked a significant decline in service, with frequent unexplained delays, crowded trains, and passengers so afraid they’ll touch someone else they won’t make room for boarding passengers. A recent visit to Washington DC opened my eyes to what an effective rail system is like.

All that said, I intend to continue to ride MARTA because the cost is favorable and the commute is still better than fighting Atlanta traffic.

By Mad As Zell

November 10, 2005 10:52 PM | Link to this

Hey Joe: That’s the absolute best suggestion for dealing with MARTA’s problems that I’ve heard yet. Although, I think that those counties that refused MARTA coverage years ago will be demanding some of regional transit if traffic continues to worsen. Atlanta added a million people between 1990-2000, but added the almost the same amount between 2000-2005 so with that type of explosive growth a regional approach absolutely must be taken or it’s gonna cost us dearly (suffocating pollution, reduced quality of life because of too many cars and traffic delays, businesses moving away to get away from crippling traffic).

By roxie

November 13, 2005 07:59 AM | Link to this

You know, it’s funny.

In all my 5 years of riding MARTA religiously, I have only had 1 experience with an unexplained delay and I have only been on hold for more than 3minutes once.

I find that if you go to the website, call the customer service center, or heck just pay attention to flyers/announcements in the stations, you’ll know what and when changes in service are going to take place and they’ll affect you.