Thinking Right

By findog

December 22, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

American Express is one of the tightest credit managers in the US. You pay off the bill monthly or your off; at least until they were not keeping up with market share. When I carried one for work I had some places didn’t like, or honor, it because they have the highest fees. This story has problems with the smell test, unless the guy was making large campaign contributions to the Martin campaign with his card…

By The BlogFather of Scroll

December 22, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

The credit card companies are going to get a bailout too, so we better not complain too much or they just might raise our interest rates and penalize us with a latent homo fee, “Our records indicate that your shopping habits are similar to Elton John’s, Clay Aikens, and Ellen Degeneres. Your balance will be assessed an over-accessorizer fee for being so flamboyantly gay, that not even Liberace would wear the colors you choose, you nasty beeyayatch! Slap Slap.)

It’s so over for capitalism it’s not funny.

By Ragnar Danneskjöld

December 22, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

Good morning all. The only question here is whether we allow freedom of thought and freedom of contract, or whether we will substitute the superior judgment of those who gave us the FNMA/FHLMC fiasco. If, hypothetically, American Express is wrong about Mr. Johnson, there are 10,000 card issuers out there – he should do business with somebody else.

I respectfully disagree with our genial host on one point – “illegal” discrimination. There are nine categories of “protected” customer profiles – race, color, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, age, recipient of public assistance, exercised CCP Act rights in good faith. If Company A is so stupid as to discriminate against black folks for no reason other than skin color, Company B will swoop in to get the creditworthy – unless the government ossifies decision-making, as it affirmatively did in last Thursday’s new “unfair and deceptive” credit card practices regulations. Urge all to read the prolix rules and reasoning – shows much insight into the bureaucratic mindset. To my larger point, by criminalizing exercise of differing strategies, the government precludes the enlightened from some easy profit opportunities. There is no intelligent reason government policies should help the idiots.

By findog

December 22, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

Ragnar, I thought that congress only had seven protected categories, other than themselves.

By ron

December 22, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this

Good morning,I wonder which stores have gathered the credit card issuers wrath?WalMart maybe?Or Macy’s?Probably the former.It’s now a simple matter for credit card issuers to steer all business where they would like it to be.

One glaringly obvious point that the credit card people have overlooked is that the lowest common denominator of their problem is people.Why not just use that as an excuse and gouge everyone?I mean,that’s gouge them more.Than they already do.

I use my card on occasion and always pay the balance when it is due.I understand that is a very dangerous practice for a card holder.It can result in cancellation.It makes you an extremely bad credit risk.

I pay all my bills when due.My credit score should be very high.Why penalize me if I choose to shop at some store the credit card people have blacklisted?What if that store turns out to be my local grocery store,which is about the only place I spend money these days?I only use my card enought to keep it active.

The bankers stole $1.6 billion and put it in their pockets.They’re not telling where the rest of the money went.

Barney Frank doesn’t like The Rev Warren.I don’t care for The Rev Warren either but I’ll bet my reason’s a lot different than Barney’s.

By Ragnar Danneskjöld

December 22, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this

Dear Blogfather @ 8:45, peculiarly, discrimination against homosexuals is still permitted by Federal law (although some state laws protect them.) Of course most creditors realize that homosexuals are big spenders (and often big earners, too) and are among the most profitable customers a credit card company can procure. Unrelated matter, yesterday you suggested your television was dead. I may have a couple of good and unused televisions in my basement – I need to check to see if Mrs. jbmlaw has already sent them to Goodwill – but would you wish one of those?

By The BlogFather of Scroll

December 22, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

Actually, jbm, I like my television broken, the signal is so screwy that it cancels out scrambled porn and I can see the T and the A clearly now.

Lovin’ life again.

blogfather of scroll train

By Ragnar Danneskjöld

December 22, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

Dear findog @ 8:55, depends on how you measure. The first seven are personal identities - race, color, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, age – and the final two are more behavioral, (1) whether the customer receives public assistance, and (2) whether the customer has exercised legal rights in good faith. Note that on the public assistance, the customer is not required to disclose that he/she receives such welfare, but if he/she conceals such receipt and income otherwise is insufficient for credit, the credit will be denied. And the creditor is permitted to consider whether the welfare is enduring (e.g., unemployment income is temporary and would not justify credit. Social Security is comparatively more permanent.)

Dear ron @ 8:59, if you pay off your credit card every month, you do not have to worry about being cancelled or curtailed. The creditor makes serious money on your transactions anyway, and you are nearly risk-free. Customer retention is much cheaper than customer acquisition.

By Ragnar Danneskjöld

December 22, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

I have a funny story on credit cards. Late last month my 90-year-old father-in-law applied for a Kroger credit card, issued through RBS. He was turned down early this month as “sufficiently involved in credit cards.” I sent a polite note urging them to reconsider, as he has no debts and has a stable government income many times his expenses, and that approximately half of his monthly expenses are food and gas purchases at Kroger. The issuer sent him a card 10 days later. Moral: the card issuers do listen. (Do not intend to slander Kroger with this note – my guess is that nobody at Kroger had any idea my father-in-law had ever applied.)

By Ga Values

December 22, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

I read this story yesterday & it did not make sense then and it still does not. Being old, I must admitt that I carried American Express when there was no alternative, but I switched to a Master Card that gives a CASH rebate every month of 5% on gas/travel expenses and 1% on everything else. As a rule American Express has the highest fees and is the slowest payer to the stores. Yes, they have converted theirselves into a bank to get the free money that our goverment is giving away. All credit card companies are really 2, the 1 we see that is a convience for us to pay once a month rather than carry money in our pocket and a loan shark business that prays on the uninformed. I am sure that in the next few months, I will get a form letter with an new credit catd eliminating my rebates because credit card companies should make money and there is no way they are making a profit off me.

By Road Scholar

December 22, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

Call them, tell them that you are pizzed and threaten to cancel your card. If you have a good credit history, they will either remove the restriction, and/or renegotiate a rate downward. If not, cancel them. There are enough other cards out there that listen and respect your history. Recently I negotiated a lower rate (both temporary and regular)with one of my cards. AE isn’t as widely used as in the past. Screw them if they screw with you, esp if they don’t like paying customers!

By jabster

December 22, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

I have one of those Costco Amex cards, and I only use it for Costco because I have another reward card that’s more generous. Amex is forever sending me notices saying that if I spend $XXX elsewhere, they’ll give me a $50 or $100 credit. I do the math and honor those offers when they suit me.

Incidentally, the issuer of the other reward card changed my credit card to a “Visa Signature” card, with NO preset limit (like an original green Amex card). Methinks that if you have good credit you can still borrow yourself silly from any number of lenders (which I don’t, ergo, I have good credit).

As an aside, when we bought our house we borrowed HALF of what Fannie Mae said we could borrow, and put 20% down on a 30 year fixed mortgage. Now, we’re the ones who have to pay for all of these freakin’ deadbeats. Gosh I feel like such a CHUMP…

Maybe I need to sign up with Ragnar’s crew and avail myself of some of that gold…

By Jim Jr.

December 22, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Presenting, 8 years in the making, a true masterpiece of design and craftsmanship. From the innovative, creative, and unparalleled thinker who brought you The Iraq War, Katrina response, (drum roll), record budget deficits, unheard of trade balance deficits, (DRUM ROLL) Ladies and gentlemen Welcome to the Bush Recession / Depression.

By Lee

December 22, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Don’t get mad- just leave them. Simply because you have used the credit card in the past, doesn’t mean you have to keep on using them. They owe you no loyalty, and you owe them none. Let them compete for your business, not take you for granted.

Go to: http://moneycentral.msn.com/banking/services/creditcarddet.asp?SearchId=1&CardOfferId=1479 or some other place and see credit cards rated by their anual percentage rate, and go with the lowest one you find. Don’t complain about higher fees- drop the service and go with a new one instead.

Don’t be screwed- be smart!

By ed

December 22, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

In similiar fashion, auto insurance premiums and health insurance premiums vary by region and by age even though it has nothing directly to do with an individual’s behavior or history. With regard to computer models, when the financial industry repackaged mortgages into investment pools called tranches, they used computer models to evaluate risk. As we now know, those models failed miserably and contributed to the financial crisis.

By Salpha

December 22, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Wooten, are you an idiot?

The credit card industry “screws” us over virtually every 6 months/yearly by changing terms, increasing over-the-limit and late fees, and flat-out lying about other certain charges and marketing strategies.

Amex is “full” of it - making an anal assumption where this person shops and lumping him/others with good payment histories with merchants/other customers who have bad histories/etc is downright stupid. Are these guys fools - and do they think we’re fools to believe this stuff?

I put my foot down dealing with my credit card issuers. Dictate your terms to them - let them know to work with you to pay down debt. Financial Models?!!?! - What a bunch of bu@$@! Why should we have to pay for the financial industries toxic debts with all higher fees and the other crap?

The credit card industry does need to be reigned in. My advice- work like hell to pay of your debt (but don’t go hungry/broke/stressed doing it). Pay them off - shred up the damn cards - and close the account about 3 months after paying them off. Give them grief if you ever receive any future offers from the schmucks.

By CJKatl

December 22, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Umm, Mr. Wooten…wasn’t it the attitude of letting companies do whatever they wanted to do without government regulation that got us into this mess in the first place? Your idea would work in a society that didn’t allow the most greedy amongst us to run wild skimming money. In the real world, where most of us live, the government needs to keep the stealing from happening ahead of time rather than having to later bail out the companies and try to recoup the money from the theives later.

We’re still out the Enron and Worldcom money, and will never see back the ill-gotten gains made by executives at AIG, Wachovia, New Century, Countrywide, Lehman, Goldman, and the ilk. Stopping the thievery before it happens is a correct government function. Not having the government step in at this point is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result. In other words, it’s insanity!

By Salpha

December 22, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Wooten, are you an idiot?

The credit card industry “screws” us over virtually every 6 months/yearly by changing terms, increasing over-the-limit and late fees, and flat-out lying about other certain charges and marketing strategies.

Amex is “full” of it - making an anal assumption where this person shops and lumping him/others with good payment histories with merchants/other customers who have bad histories/etc is downright stupid. Are these guys fools - and do they think we’re fools to believe this stuff?

I put my foot down dealing with my credit card issuers. Dictate your terms to them - let them know to work with you to pay down debt. Financial Models?!!?! - What a bunch of bu@$@! Why should we have to pay for the financial industries toxic debts with all higher fees and the other crap?

The credit card industry does need to be reigned in. My advice- work like hell to pay of your debt (but don’t go hungry/broke/stressed doing it). Pay them off - shred up the damn cards - and close the account about 3 months after paying them off. Give them grief if you ever receive any future offers from the schmucks.

By Salpha

December 22, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

Wooten, are you an idiot?

The credit card industry “screws” us over virtually every 6 months/yearly by changing terms, increasing over-the-limit and late fees, and flat-out lying about other certain charges and marketing strategies.

Amex is “full” of it - making an anal assumption where this person shops and lumping him/others with good payment histories with merchants/other customers who have bad histories/etc is downright stupid. Are these guys fools - and do they think we’re fools to believe this stuff?

I put my foot down dealing with my credit card issuers. Dictate your terms to them - let them know to work with you to pay down debt. Financial Models?!!?! - What a bunch of bu@$@! Why should we have to pay for the financial industries toxic debts with all higher fees and the other crap?

The credit card industry does need to be reigned in. My advice- work like hell to pay of your debt (but don’t go hungry/broke/stressed doing it). Pay them off - shred up the damn cards - and close the account about 3 months after paying them off. Give them grief if you ever receive any future offers from the schmucks.

By The BlogFather of Scroll

December 22, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Fumble, Fumble, Foiled by Fumbles, Timeouts burned, and Vikings humbled.

Are there deep mystical forces working for the Falcons? Surely it would take a spell to make the football take flight from the scrimmage line and scramble backwards purposefully toward the Falcon’s end zone twice in a few minutes.

Or do the Falcons have an angel? A mischievous angel with a sense of humor that harkens back to the keystone cop silent movie era. An angel who turned the vikings into bumbling fumblers. The image of the vikings chasing the pigskin dozens of yards behind thier line of scrimmage is one of the lighter moments of the past 300 years.

This is no ordinary season. The Falcons have won improbably again.

Inconceivable.

There can be only one reason that supernatural beings would favor our Falcons: The ghosts of Vicks Dogs will be avenged even if it takes an unholy aliance of witches, angels, and willful pigskins. OMG I just invented the cheerleader eligible play.

By GaLiberal

December 22, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

Moron Jim said: The subprime mortgage debacle that has visited this recession on America, got its start in an effort by politicians and advocacy groups to push mortgage lenders to waive credit-worthiness as the primary consideration in making loans.

There goes MJ repeating Rethuglicon lies as if they were the truth like a good little bootlicking Rethuglicon. What MJ doesn’t tell you is the mortgage mess was caused by the Rethuglicons who tore down the firewall of laws between banking and investing. Banks wanted to cash in on the economic boom, but couldn’t directly invest account holders money in the stock market so they did the next best thing. They generated a lot of mortgages which they then packaged and sold as investments. The way they generated all those mortgages was to make account holder money available to mortgage brokers at super cheap interest rates. The mortgage brokers then took that money and made a bunch of mortgages using low “teaser” rates and allowed people that were marginal to qualify. The mortgage companies didn’t care because they got paid for each mortgage they generated. The banks were very happy because that meant more mortgages for them to package and sell to investors. The investors were happy because they had all this paper they could leverage to buy even more investments. So when the housing bubble blew up, so did the banks and the investment firms. It was all about greed and the Rethuglicons were the enablers by repealing the banking laws.

MJ continues to represent the Rethuglicon party very well. His out right lies and transparent spin expose the Rethuglicons as liars and hypocrites. They only care about making the rich richer, keeping the poor poor, and brainwashing the middle class into thinking they’ll get rich if the Rethuglicons are in charge. Well, here’s the result of eight years of Rethuglicon rule: a debt of over $10 TRILLION, a deficit of over $400 BILLION, the government has either spent or committed over $5 TRILLION bailing out the economy, the reckless and unnecessary Iraq war which will cost over $2 TRILLION, and tax cuts that substantially benefited the uberrich. And yet, MJ continues to preach this is the way to go. Yea, if you want to destroy the country.

When you vote Rethuglicon, you vote against your own best interests. And MJ’s repeating lies about the mortgage mess is living proof.

By Salpha

December 22, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

Wooten, are you an idiot?

The credit card industry “screws” us over virtually every 6 months/yearly by changing terms, increasing over-the-limit and late fees, and flat-out lying about other certain charges and marketing strategies.

Amex is “full” of it - making an anal assumption where this person shops and lumping him/others with good payment histories with merchants/other customers who have bad histories/etc is downright stupid. Are these guys fools - and do they think we’re fools to believe this stuff?

I put my foot down dealing with my credit card issuers. Dictate your terms to them - let them know to work with you to pay down debt. Financial Models?!!?! - What a bunch of bu@$@! Why should we have to pay for the financial industries toxic debts with all higher fees and the other crap?

The credit card industry does need to be reigned in. My advice- work like hell to pay of your debt (but don’t go hungry/broke/stressed doing it). Pay them off - shred up the damn cards - and close the account about 3 months after paying them off. Give them grief if you ever receive any future offers from the schmucks.

By james

December 22, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

Wooten, are you an idiot?

The credit card industry “screws” us over virtually every 6 months/yearly by changing terms, increasing over-the-limit and late fees, and flat-out lying about other certain charges and marketing strategies.

Amex is “full” of it - making an anal assumption where this person shops and lumping him/others with good payment histories with merchants/other customers who have bad histories/etc is downright stupid. Are these guys fools - and do they think we’re fools to believe this stuff?

I put my foot down dealing with my credit card issuers. Dictate your terms to them - let them know to work with you to pay down debt. Financial Models?!!?! - What a bunch of bu@$@! Why should we have to pay for the financial industries toxic debts with all higher fees and the other crap?

The credit card industry does need to be reigned in. My advice- work like hell to pay of your debt (but don’t go hungry/broke/stressed doing it). Pay them off - shred up the damn cards - and close the account about 3 months after paying them off. Give them grief if you ever receive any future offers from the schmucks.

By The BlogFather of Scroll

December 22, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Fumble, Fumble, Foiled by Fumbles, Timeouts burned, and Vikings humbled.

Are there deep mystical forces working for the Falcons? Surely it would take a spell to make the football take flight from the scrimmage line and scramble backwards purposefully toward the Falcon’s end zone twice in a few minutes.

Or do the Falcons have an angel? A mischievous angel with a sense of humor that harkens back to the keystone cop silent movie era. An angel who turned the vikings into bumbling fumblers. The image of the vikings chasing the pigskin dozens of yards behind their line of scrimmage is one of the lighter moments of the past 300 years.

This is no ordinary season. The Falcons have won improbably again.

Inconceivable.

There can be only one reason that supernatural beings would favor our Falcons: The ghosts of Vicks Dogs will be avenged even if it takes an unholy aliance of witches, angels, and willful pigskins. OMG I just invented the cheerleader eligible play.

By Corey

December 22, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Save and spend is the way to go. If you must have a credit card for renting cars, airline tickets etc. get a secured card whereby your spending limit is based on your savings account with the bank. Also, your money will earn interest, and you will not become careless with your spending.

By Duane

December 22, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

Here is a better one. I had a BP Chase Visa credit card. I got it to get the 5% discount on BP gasoline. I pay my bill at the end of each billing cycle and have never been late. On Monday before Thanksgiving, I received a letter from Chase that a computer analysis had been completed on accounts and it appeared that I was using my card for other than personal use and that the account would be closed out immediately. I called customer service and they told me that they had no notation that the account would be closed and that since there was a backup for a supervisor that they would call me back if the account would be closed. I didn’t hear from them and tried to used the card to purchase gas on Wednesday night and the card was rejected. I called customer service again and they told me that indeed the account had been closed because it appeared that the card was used for other than personal used. I told them that that was not the case and that there were no limitations and I had used the card for several years with no problems. I asked about my rewards that totaled over $173 and was told that they were frozen when the card was cancelled and that I could not redeem the rewards for cash as I had always done. I asked to speak to supervisors to no avail. I continued to e-mail and finally prevailed and got a $200 reward for my dissatisfaction with their customer service. My account has been closed. I looked up blogs on the internet and found that many BP Chase Visa customers had their accounts closed with little warning. Some customers were on vacation overseas or cruises and were stranded because they had taken only one credit card for the trip (for safety reasons) and Chase would not reopen their accounts until they got home. I say all of this because the credit cards can certainly set their rules. It seems to me to be more prudent for them to change the rules and limit the 5% rebate to a certain amount each month rather than close the account on a suspicion that a customer is using the card for other than personal reasons (which I did not do). Instead they have lost me as a customer and BP has lost as well.

As a side note, I was looking for a Play Station 3 primarily for a Blu-Ray player and found a deal on the internet to get a $150 discount on a player if approved for a Sony PlayStation Chase Visa card. This is the same company that just closed me out as a BP customer. I applied and was approved and got the discount. This is a crazy world.

While abuses do occur and credit card companies do take risks, they have given credit where credit is not warranted and limited credit where it is not warranted. Rules and limitations should also be set for the credit card companies. Have you noticed also that there is a lot less junk mail from credit card companies wanting you to apply for their services?

By Mike

December 22, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

I have an Amex platinum, and after some financial difficulties in July 07 they put a credit limit on it. (I’ve been told this is rare, but there it is.)

They’ve lowered the limit twice in the last three months - the first time was while I was on a trip and all of a sudden I had no available credit.

I also have a second Amex card that’s the type where you can carry a balance, and it’s nearly maxed out due to an exceptional balance transfer promotion. One month I had an extra $700, so I paid on that account, thinking if I had an emergency I’d still have the available credit. Wrong! They lowered the credit limit by $700 immediately after the payment posted.

I’ve got to wonder what sort of places Mr. Johnson shops - my usage is a mix of high-end retail (Tiffany, Neiman-Marcus) and everyday things (Chick-Fil-A, Target). Where I shop wasn’t a listed factor in either of the two limit decreases I’ve had recently.

By The BlogFather of Scroll

December 22, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

Fumble, Fumble, Foiled by Fumbles, Timeouts burned, and Vikings humbled.

Are there deep mystical forces working for the Falcons? Surely it would take a spell to make the football take flight from the scrimmage line and scramble backwards purposefully toward the Falcon’s end zone twice in a few minutes.

Or do the Falcons have an angel? A mischievous angel with a sense of humor that harkens back to the keystone cop silent movie era. An angel who turned the vikings into bumbling fumblers. The image of the vikings chasing the pigskin dozens of yards behind thier line of scrimmage is one of the lighter moments of the past 300 years.

This is no ordinary season. The Falcons have won improbably again.

Inconceivable.

There can be only one reason that supernatural beings would favor our Falcons: The ghosts of Vicks Dogs will be avenged even if it takes an unholy aliance of witches, angels, and willful pigskins. OMG I just invented the cheerleader eligible play.

By Jason

December 22, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

“…surely we can believe that computer models can predict consumer financial trouble even before individual borrowers recognize it.”

Those computer models sure did work wonders for the risk management at investment banks, didn’t they?

By Bob

December 22, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

I have one credit card that I use for convenience when I buy gas at the pump or when I am on vacation. I pay-off the card at the end of the month. Credit Cards are a convenience that I would rather do without most of the time. Too many people spend money they don’t have because it is so much easier to put on plastic than to actually see the money leave your hands.

By Biggdawg 96

December 22, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

As much as it stinks, you should look at it this way. Using a credit card is technically borrowing money from a bank.

It is their money being sent to the stores when you use the card. (Until you pay them, they bought the items that you got by presenting their card.) They have a right to say how much of their money that they are willing to lend out to you. As long as it is complies with Fair lending laws, it is within their rights.

Although, I do admit that they have to do a better job of communicating their decisions to the cardholder

By Mike Smith

December 22, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

I have a magic credit card. You can’t buy stuff with it, but if you follow a logical process, the seemingly impossible will happen. Me and the rest of my Flowery Branch friends are going to try and max it out over the next few weeks.

By Cindy

December 22, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

I hope the US is hoarding oil. At under $40 a barrel we could find all kinds of storage space. We shouldn’t have to drill ANWAR for another 50 years or so. By then, hopefully, we will have improved modes of transportation and ANWAR will never have to be drilled.

Isn’t it funny that just a few short months ago ANWAR was our only hope? Just goes to show the mistruths spit out by crooked corporations.

By Ragnar Danneskjöld

December 22, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

Dear CJKatl @ 10:45, “wasn’t it the attitude of letting companies do whatever they wanted to do without government regulation that got us into this mess in the first place?” No, the FNMA/FHLMC mess was caused by unlimited taxpayer guarantees for private mortgage risk, mostly to increase the financial benefits for those democrats in charge of the entities (Raines, Gorelick, Johnson). On the other hand, that mess pretty much cleared up around the first of October. The current mess is more closely related to democrat hostility to free enterprise. The democrats promise to:

(1) make it easier to compel union membership as a requirement of retaining a job;

(2) raise corporate taxes;

(3) raise taxes on higher income individuals;

(4) renegotiate international trade agreements, to make them less free and more “fair”;

(5) implement a “cap and trade” system for energy, primarily to enrich those who control the system;

(6) restrict production of traditional energy sources, such as coal, oil, and nuclear;

(7) raid the taxpayers for corporate welfare, to be paid to preferred “alternative” energy producers, mostly leftists;

(8) nationalize health care, and to finance all costs through business taxes.

All of those policies increase costs, and will thus reduce quality of life for all living under the yoke of nanny government. And don’t even ask about the effect “regulations” have on employers. The flight of capital, seen in the decline of the Dow Jones Industrial average, is fully rational, and, as we regularly note here, voters deserve the governments they elect. In contrast, freedom works well for all of us.

Dear GA Liberal @ 10:52, can you cite a single proposal by the democrats, in charge since 2006, that cause an employer to need or want to increase his number of employees? The economy was humming along quite well, until the democrats mauled it. You are the one responsible for the current financial distress, as you are not smart enough to recognize the benefits of business-friendly policies.

By DTR

December 22, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

Credit card companies are robbers without a gun for those that don’t pay in full monthly.

By Ragnar Danneskjöld

December 22, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Dear Cindy @ 11:50, your hostility to freedom blinds you. The price of oil was high so long as the democrats blocked future drilling. As those blocks have (mostly) now expired, the free market is allowed to work. But I suspect your favored congressmen, all similar leftists hostile to business, will restrict future drilling, and the price will soar again. Leftists are slow learners.

By Bob

December 22, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Drilling in Alaska and off shore is still a good idea that shouldn’t be forgotten. When the economy picks back up so will gasoline prices.

By The BlogFather of Scroll

December 22, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

Oil is 30 cents a gallon in 1970 money, about. Now watch Jay Bookman google the CPI and go, “That’s wrong! It’s 28.885 cents a gallen in 1970 money!”

Jay bookman is a very dilligent little cub.

The low price of gasoline is the beginning of the new bull market. Buy.

By Reality

December 22, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

Ragnar Danneskjold, nice try; the democrats slim majority in Congress was not enough to overide dumb dumb’s veto nor push through sweeping changes. Stop with the lies already, please.

By Ryan Cagey

December 22, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

You have some good points. You must dig deeper though. Also, acting lawfully doesn’t mean acting fairly. (It was once lawful that women be bared from voting. We are in Atlanta for crying out loud where many laws have bared certain populations, especially during the 60s.)

There is no evidence because the companies are not required to report their algorithms or “evidence”.

For example, mortgage companies —as mentioned in the NY Times— are not required to report FICO scores when submitting info about mortgages to the federal government. They do, however, report race, HHI, gender, etc. By not having to report FICO scores, they perry any legal liability. That is unfortunate because we know time and again that applicants with the same “numbers” get different products. Blacks, Latinos, and women are sold disproportionately bad products.

Again, I agree with you on a lot, but we both need more information. Then we can be sure of what is really going on. However, you don’t need legal prowess to understand that something is wrong.

By Ga Values

December 22, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Ragnar Danneskjöld 12:00 PM

Starting on the holiday drinking a little early today..

By Ryan Cagey

December 22, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

You have some good points. You must dig deeper though. Also, acting lawfully doesn’t mean acting fairly. (It was once lawful that women be prohibited from voting. We are in Atlanta for crying out loud where many laws have prohibited certain populations, especially during the 60s.)

There is no evidence because the companies are not required to report their algorithms or “evidence”.

For example, mortgage companies —as mentioned in the NY Times— are not required to report FICO scores when submitting info about mortgages to the federal government. They do, however, report race, HHI, gender, etc. By not having to report FICO scores, they perry any legal liability. That is unfortunate because we know time and again that applicants with the same “numbers” get different products. Blacks, Latinos, and women are sold disproportionately bad products.

Again, I agree with you on a lot, but we both need more information. Then we can be sure of what is really going on. However, you don’t need legal prowess to understand that something is wrong.

By Leon

December 22, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Ragnar = Blowhard

By yankee

December 22, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

I was turned down for a card a couple weeks ago. I have an 810 Beacon score, who knows what their thinking. I re-checked my credit file and it’s fine, I don’t need them bad enough to call them.

By Ryan Cagey

December 22, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

You have some good points. You must dig deeper though. Also, acting lawfully doesn’t mean acting fairly. (It was once lawful that women be prohibited from voting. We are in Atlanta for crying out loud where many laws have prohibited certain populations, especially during the 60s.)

There is no evidence because the companies are not required to report their algorithms or “evidence”.

For example, mortgage companies —as mentioned in the NY Times— are not required to report FICO scores when submitting info about mortgages to the federal government. They do, however, report race, HHI, gender, etc. By not having to report FICO scores, they perry any legal liability. That is unfortunate because we know time and again that applicants with the same “numbers” get different products. Blacks, Latinos, and women are sold disproportionately bad products.

Again, I agree with you on a lot, but we both need more information. Then we can be sure of what is really going on. However, you don’t need legal prowess to understand that something is wrong.

By Churchill's MOM

December 22, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

Jim, who cres about credit cards?? It’s a husband’s job to keep his wife up in the manner she wants, if he can’t afford her then she needs to find a new husband & he needs to lower his standsrds. Here’s todays Palin, eat your heart out Dusty..Palin for PRESIDENT 2012..

If Sarah Palin wants to run for the Senate, a race against Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) in 2010 might give her a golden opportunity to win.

A newly released poll shows that Palin would trounce Murkowski if she challenged her in a primary. The poll, commissioned by the Daily Kos, shows Palin leading Murkowski by 24 points, 55 to 31 percent, in a hypothetical primary matchup.

Palin still has sky-high approval ratings in Alaska: 60 percent of respondents said they view Palin favorably, while 38 percent view her unfavorably. A 51 percent majority of Alaskans said they viewed Murkowski favorably, while 43 percent viewed her unfavorably.

Palin has given little hint of her future intentions, but she has experience taking on the Murkowski family. She was elected governor of Alaska by handily defeating Lisa Murkowski’s father, then-Gov. Frank Murkowski, in the Republican primary. The governor took criticism in the campaign for (among other things) appointing his daughter to his Senate seat when he was elected.

For her part, Lisa Murkowski is preparing for the fight. She told Politico’s Manu Raju earlier this month that Palin would face a “tough election” if she jumped in the race. And Murkowski cited her seniority and service as the ranking Republican on the Energy and Natural Resources Committee to dissuade Palin from running.

“If she were to kind of move me over, if you will, to run for national office again at the expense at this seniority that’s been built, I don’t know if Alaskans would look too favorably on that,” Murkowski said.

The poll also tested several general election matchups, including a Senate rematch of the 2006 gubernatorial race between Palin and Democrat Tony Knowles. Palin would defeat Knowles by 14 points, 53 to 39 percent.

The poll, conducted by Research 2000, surveyed 600 likely voters between December 15-17. It has a four percent margin of error.

By Ragnar Danneskjöld

December 22, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Dear Reality @ 12:10, you argue falsely. If Speaker Pelosi decides that the Bush tax cuts shall expire, those tax cuts shall expire, without regard to common sense or the depth of depression that will cause. And, in contrast, what capacity did the Bush administration have, to push though free market changes over the objections of the lunacrats?

Dear Ryan @ 12:16, I think you err - “…we know time and again that applicants with the same “numbers” get different products…” Not even the loopiest leftist think tanks have ever so-argued. They usually note that “protected” classes have lower FICO scores, and cite that as evidence of the inherent discrimination of FICO. However, I would respectfully receive contrary information. I do monitor the FICO theoretical field pretty closely.

Dear GA Values @ 12:17, “Starting on the holiday drinking a little early today..” Please, allow me to join your celebration.

Dear Leon @ 12:19, well argued, although at the threshold of your competence.

By Houckster

December 22, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

I think we all suffer when credit card companies make decisions about our credit on the basis of aggregate data. If I go to a Wall-Mart (which I never do), just what creditable information do they derive that gives them the justification for reducing my credit limit or increasing the interest rate?

No matter how sophisticated the data-mining algorithm, it can never substitute for years of properly handled credit as an indicator that the credit card company will be paid. I disagree with Mr. Wooten on this, if everything he said is true, then AE was wrong to do what they did.

By Cindy

December 22, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Ragnar, You are wrong! Nobody ever opened ANWAR to drilling. And by the grace of God, the republicans never will.

By Michael Covington

December 22, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

A data mining algorithm can easily pick up indirect indications of race, ethnicity, or religion, without anyone realizing it’s doing so.

Credit decisions should be made on the basis of clearly defined criteria, not “resemblance” detected by a computer. By nature, most kinds of data mining programs cannot tell you what criteria they are using, and that’s the problem.

By Curious Observer

December 22, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

It’s strictly debit card for my purchases. The money spent comes directly out of my checking account, which provides a record of it.

However, I got a chuckle from a letter received from a credit card issuer Saturday. The letter notified me that because I hadn’t and never used the card, it was being cancelled. No doubt the cancellation will result in a reduction of my FICO score. Wooten would probably find this deduction very fair. To Wooten, anything a business entity does is automatically fair. After all, it’s a business, isn’t it? Would a fine, upstanding member of the free enterprise establishment ever be unfair?

As a final line, the letter invited me to call a number if I needed help “managing your credit properly.” Well, the best way to manage one’s credit is not to borrow money, and that’s precisely what I’m doing. So they can all stick my FICO score into any of their body cavities they choose.

Ditto for the practice of using credit profiles to price insurance. No doubt there’s a pretty good correlation of credit risk and insurance risk. But that correlation doesn’t mean that everybody who’s a poor credit risk is also a poor insurance risk. I hope John Oxendine enjoyed the campaign contributions from the insurance companies when he approved that little gambit.

By SW

December 22, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

Cutting the guy’s credit limit stinks if they did it according to where he shops. Aside from that, credit card companies reserve the right to almost do as they please which I don’t find surprising. There are very few rules protecting consumers relative to those protecting creditors. He has the option to pay the card off and cancel it…I’m sure another company would love to do business with him.

As for me, I only make purchases on my credit card every couple of months (usually a bill I have to pay anyway…mobile phone, utility, etc.) and then pay it off immediately….I don’t even use 1% of my limit. They can reduce it if they want to and that would be fine. I’ve no real NEED for them anyway.

By Ragnar Danneskjöld

December 22, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Dear Cindy @ 12:39, I agree that ANWR remains closed to development, even though Alaskans overwhelming wish to open it, and I recognize the success of the leftist overlords in imposing their will over the wishes of the people. Nevertheless, you err – almost all legal constraints against development of oil fields, other than those in ANWR, expired 2008/9/30. But I generally agree with you, that the leftists will reimpose those constraints and the price of oil will thereafter soar.

Dear Curious @ 12:44, fear not, the closing of an inactive account will not adversely affect your FICO, or at least not meaningfully so – not more than five points. (Almost any change in circumstances will cause some small effect on FICO. And, on the other hand, if you review your credit report and your credit has been really damaged by a misreporting of “mishandling,” I know an attorney experienced in the field who can make you a rich man.) As to FICOs and insurance losses, your sense is correct – the correlation is staggeringly close to a perfect inverse, although there is no clear empirical reason that should be so.

By Robert

December 22, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

We all just need to take responsibility for ourselves and find a way to make it. That’s why when times were tough over the summer I bought and drove less and now that times are better and gas is cheap I am stocking up at tomorrowsgas.com

So next time when gas prices go through the roof, I’ll have already locked in my price at Tomorrow’s Gas, and I won’t need the government to bail me out like everyone else seems to need

By ron

December 22, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

Dear Ragnar,I don’t think oil has had anything to do with a free market since the start of OPEC.Right now OPEC is banding together and cutting production,trying to raise prices to another artificial high.In a free market each country would have to cut or produce according to it’s own needs.

By Ragnar Danneskjöld

December 22, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Dear Curious @ 12:44, I should have added a small explanatory note. I think I remember that using 50% of a credit line maximizes the FICO score, and that using significantly more or significantly less lowers the score. Sounds a little perverse, doesn’t it?

By deegee

December 22, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Jim for your De-leveraging for Dummies lesson. What you have addressed is the trickle down effect on the consumer. Over-leveraged banks are now scrambling to shrink their balance sheets by pulling back on credit. They simply do not have the balance sheet capacity to expand credit even though that’s what the brilliant government economists thought they would get after giving the banks a cash infusion. Who knew that $350 billion to start was just like taking a whiz in the ocean? I suppose that on the bright side the resultant deflation in prices has given us some really good holiday shopping. Too bad you have to save up for whatever it is you want to buy.

By Leon

December 22, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Ragnar you have no idea as to my level of competence. Concise beats palaverous, ergo my comment you officious gasbag.

By Ga Values

December 22, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Churchill’s MOM 12:32 PM

My wife cooked your cake and it was great..She is going to make another for Chrismas morning.

By Susan

December 22, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

This is definitely discrimination. If anyone has a perfect payment record, it shouldn’t matter where they shop or live. I’d close out that account IMMEDIATELY, and let them know why! Show them what you think of them dictating where you shop/live. This should be grounds for lawsuit.

By Santa

December 22, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

Ga. Values, I’ll be “cooking your wife’s cake,” on Christmas Eve, if you get my drift. And I think you do.

By Ragnar Danneskjöld

December 22, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Dear Leon @ 1:30, we shall know ye by your works. Your writing - mere epithets, nothing more, admittedly concise - speaks volumes about your intellectual capacity.

By Redneck Convert

December 22, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

Well, I sure hope this ron don’t try to cook the missus’s cake during the Christmas season. It’s hard enough to be out in the cold hauling beer without having to worry about what some scoundrel is doing with your wife while you’re gone.

Have a good day everybody.

By Dawg4 life

December 22, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Riddle me this…..Mr. Johnson is going through life using his AmEx card where and when he pleases and paying as agreed (term used on credit reports) then why did his account come to the attention of AmEx. If I (an AmEx customer since 1980) got that letter and I knew that I was in good standing, I would close the account and go elsewhere. I wonder if there isn’t something else going on here. Why did Mr. Johnson go to the media rather than just apply for a different card….maybe his credit isn’t as good as he says…..

By Ragnar Danneskjöld

December 22, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Dear ron @ 1:24, regrettably your statement is true of practically all markets, not just oil. Nevertheless, freer markets are better than less-free markets. If Econ 101 holds true, the OPEC effort to raise prices by restraining output can only work if there are no other producers to fill the void. The world’s second and third largest oil producers are not members of OPEC. OPEC was manifestly successful only once in its history – when the US imposed price controls on oil. The OPEC purposes were facilitated by the US’s unilateral development constraints over the past 20 years, but those prices collapsed precipitously when the US suddenly freed (theoretical) development of oil fields.

By Mort Merkel

December 22, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

I’d say Ragnar rendered Leon a new anal orafice.

By Biggdawg 96

December 22, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

While it is unfair, it isn’t unlawful.

One of the fundamentals of contract law (this is a contract case), it the freedom to make a bad deal. No one put a gun to his head and said “take this card and use it”.

It is an account that he can close at any time as long as he has paid it all off. He isn’t bound to keep the card. Therefore, their money dictates their rules.

It stinks, but in the words of ultra-conservative Bernie Marcus “Isn’t it wonderful what I can do with my money?” (He said this when criticized for donating so much money to the Aquarium when some charities were asking for money from him.)

It is money that American Express is shelling out until ol’ dude pays them back. Therefore, it is their money going to the merchants and restaurants. They can dictate the terms or you can decline their help.

By The BlogFather of Scroll

December 22, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Jbm has no idea why the price of oil fell, nor did he know why it rose, nor will he know when, if or why it should ever rise again.

Jbm is Dusty with smaller boobs.

As the blogfather of scroll, truth is my sword, and if the pen is mightier than the sword, then the lipstick on the pig in the pen is the most powerful of all, and that’s why I rule any blog I attend.

oink

By Jake

December 22, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

I believe Dante had the userers in the 4th circle of hell where they spent eternity standing on their heads in a river of molten lead. Sounds about right to me.

By Bob

December 22, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

wow…bottom line it’s their money to lend. They don’t owe anyone anything. If you want to do business with them, do it on their terms…you are NOT entitled to credit.

By Ga Values

December 22, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

Santa 2:08 PM

Be careful to not wake the childeren, grand childeren or me..you’ll have fun..

By Bob

December 22, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

wow…bottom line it’s their money to lend. They don’t owe anyone anything. If you want to do business with them, do it on their terms…you are NOT entitled to credit.

By Mort Merkel

December 22, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

When will people learn to steer clear of armed, imbibing seniors when they are watching the Falcons?

By The BlogFather of Scroll

December 22, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Fumble, Fumble, Foiled by Fumbles, Timeouts burned, and Vikings humbled.

Are there deep mystical forces working for the Falcons? Surely it would take a spell to make the football take flight from the scrimmage line and scramble backwards purposefully toward the Falcon’s end zone twice in just a few minutes.

Or do the Falcons have an angel? A mischievous angel with a sense of humor that harkens back to the keystone cop silent movie era. An angel who turned the vikings into bumbling fumblers. The multiple images of the vikings chasing the pigskin dozens of yards behind their line of scrimmage provides some of the lighter moments of the past 300 years of stooge history.

There can be only one reason that supernatural beings would favor our Falcons: The ghosts of Vicks Dogs will be avenged even if it takes an unholy aliance of witches, angels, and willful pigskins. OMG I just invented the cheerleader eligible play!

By Mort Merkel

December 22, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

If cheerleaders played center, the shotgun would’ve never been invented.

By draby

December 22, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

I generally agree with Wooten except for one point, Credit card companies should not be able to lower credit for any reason unless these reasons are explicitly communicated to the customer. The problem is that the customer doesn’t know the types of establishments that cause credit problems until AFTER they’ve shopped there. That should be illegal.

By The BlogFather of Scroll

December 22, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

Well played and a fiendish rejoinder, Mort. If fish is good brain food, then you should eat a whale, sir. (Moe, 1947)

By Mort Merkel

December 22, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

But there would be many more delay of game penalties.

By mike

December 22, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Follow Dave Ramsey. Cancel the cards.

By Cindy

December 22, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Ragnar, First: “Native Alaskans do not overwhelmingly want ANWAR drilled.
Conservation over Greed: Conservation being “leftist” and Greed being “Republican”.

Second: many offshore leases expired without any action ever being taken. Don’t blame the leftists for the companies’ decisions.

Of course, it is the conservative way to blame others when company managers make poor decisions. I believe the union is the cause of auto industry’s collapse even though the “company” had to agree to the union proposals.

By Walmart

December 22, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

Nobody screws with Walmart. Period. Here’s the tip of the day, sell your AMEX stock, it’s about to be worthless

By The BlogFather of Scroll

December 22, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

as well as “illegal use of the hands” penalties, and “bandaging the cheerleaders” penalties, and “too many condoms in the neutral zone”, and “312 men on the field”…

oh, fill in the blank, this stuff writes itself.

By Mort Merkel

December 22, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

That’s why even a simpleton like myself can do it. It’s sad to be doomed to the kiddie pool, Blogfather. But, at least I can read your material and dream. Sighhhh.

By The BlogFather of Scroll

December 22, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

I’m not sure why ragnar is posting like he is. It’s just possible that the most respectable of the conservative front line are now reduced to trolls who can only blither and blather and puke pablum through the next eight years when Justice Arrives in America. (JAA)

I want to address our black american citizens: I’m talking to the same people that Lincoln refered to in the Gettysburg Address, and I think I speak for Lincoln himself here……. For the first time in my life, I can see that the light at the end of the American Tunnel is Justice Shining. It’s still a ways off, and we haven’t quite grasped it’s brass ring of freedom, but it’s coming toward us, as we ride these bucking horses on America’s Merry-Go-Round. Bush turned the power off, and there’s no money to keep the merry-go-round moving, but the momentum of the past seven score and four years may just bring that brass ring within our grasps.

My life will be worthwhile if I see you all pull that ring down and it becomes yours: Justice in America.

Take it. It’s yours, and fairly won.

Let us now all deal with W and Cheney, and bring those two to justice, no matter the cost, no matter the legal precedence, no matter the turmoil we hear from the Right. They belong to the same ages that Lincoln belongs to, and those ages cry out for justice: The Justice of the Ages.

But know this: If we see that W and Cheney will start a civil war rather than give themselves up, then we’ll let them go, anything, but to prevent the justice that is yours from ringing true.

Grab that ring, my fellow americans.

Rejoice: Justice is at hand!

By ron

December 22, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

Dear Redneck,——-I promise I won’t hurt her.

By Ragnar Danneskjöld

December 22, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

Dear Cindy @ 3:30, 75% of Alaskans want ANWR opened up for drilling. That’s even more than Obama’s mandate, by about 24 points. How do you think the matter would come out, if the Congress allowed Alaskans to vote on the matter? And more to the point, why don’t they allow Alaskans to vote on the matter?

But to your real point, why do you magnify the genius of the Congress over that of the market, where normal people get to vote with their dollars? One suspects you know that the leftists would always lose such votes - after all, that is why they have to impose their judgments via law - because most people disagree with them.

By The BlogFather of Scroll

December 22, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

I apologize in advance for this ragnar, you deserve better, but anyone who talks about anwar during 40 dollar oil, is a moron, and a fool, and a prairie doggin’ bowel refugee that peeks out and says, BOO!

Ragnar. Dont post for six months. You’re own karma demands it. your own mother’s honor insists upon it, your god encyclicizes it, and all who have half a brain nod in approval of what I just say to you this day: STFU!

you’ll feel better.

This is the dawning of the age of the BlogFather of Scroll!!!

There’s just no room for conservative look backs, GOP stallwarts, or anything that smacks of Nixon, Reagan, or Bush, part duh.

I say this with a sense of regret, for you have been a class act from day one, a heart that beat for humanity’s progress, and a mind that embraced practical compromise.

But your day has passed, and now you must retreat behind your gated community of fellow haves, and let the have-nots have not what they dont deserve, but what not they have not to want for…..uh, i mean, look, the world is divided between the haves and the half wits…and I’m not a have…no, that’s wrong, uh…..

Nuke Iran!

By T. Boone Pickens

December 22, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

Now is exactly the time to be talking about ANWAR and all of our country’s energy resources, especially natural gas for transportation and wind for electricity. We need to not forget that we are transferring our wealth to other nations, many that don’t really like us that much. Ragnar, carry on.

By The BlogFather of Scroll

December 22, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

What R the odds of there being two dimwits of equivalent calibre on the same blog.

Anwar is viable only with 200 dollar oil, sir.

Cheap oil means we invest elsewhere like healthcare, or bridges, or education.

Cheap oil saves us. Anwar is just a forgettable icon of fear that flashes in the American Psyche when the GOP needs to distract americans from the War in Iraq.

We aint never gonna git outta iraq, sir. Can you address that issue?

Of course not, Rush hasn’t talked about it lately.

When you can think for yourself, sir, then I will blog with you. Till then, recede, rescind, and recidivize.

I know all. I see all. I am the BlogFather of Scroll!

By The BlogFather of Scroll

December 22, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

Fumble, Fumble, Foiled by Fumbles, Timeouts burned, and Vikings humbled.

Are there deep mystical forces working for the Falcons? Surely it would take a spell to make the football take flight from the scrimmage line and scramble backwards purposefully toward the Falcon’s end zone twice in just a few minutes.

Or do the Falcons have an angel? A mischievous angel with a sense of humor that harkens back to the keystone cop silent movie era. An angel who turned the vikings into bumbling fumblers. The multiple images of the vikings chasing the pigskin dozens of yards behind their line of scrimmage provides some of the lighter moments of the past 300 years of stooge history.

There can be only one reason that supernatural beings would favor our Falcons: The ghosts of Vicks Dogs will be avenged even if it takes an unholy aliance of witches, angels, and willful pigskins. OMG I just invented the cheerleader eligible play!

By CoBy The EviL

December 23, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

ur a communist

By CoBy The EviL

December 23, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

ur a communist

By CoBy The EviL

December 23, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

ur a communist

By david wayne osedach, san diego/ U.S.A.

December 23, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

The credit card companies need an innovative reinvention. Part of that will come when the new laws take effect in mid-2010. And the other part what’s going to happen if they don’t get bailed out.

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