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DEL.ICIO.USDavis trial recanting proves nothing solid
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
An anguished gentleman writes from the British Isles to inquire as to why Georgia intends to execute a convicted cop killer whose guilt is now suspect because various witnesses have “recanted” their testimony.
The gentleman can be forgiven for his certainty that a miscarriage of justice is about to occur. It’s the odd nature of high-profile cases that crucial misconceptions are repeated so often that spin becomes fact.
The Troy Anthony Davis case is a prime example.
The Georgia Supreme Court dealt thoroughly and authoritatively with the alleged recantations in March.
The facts of the case, as recounted by Justice Harold Melton in the majority opinion, are these:
In the early morning hours of Aug. 19, 1989, Davis was at a Savannah pool hall with two friends, Sylvester Coles and Darrell Collins. When a homeless man leaving a nearby convenience store declined to share his beers with Coles, Coles followed him up the street, cursing. Davis, Collins and Coles surrounded him. Davis, from behind, struck the homeless man in the head with a pistol, badly injuring him. Collins fled. When it became obvious that police were being called, Davis and Coles fled, too.
Officer Mark MacPhail, working off-duty nearby, gave chase, shouting for Davis and Coles to stop. Coles did. MacPhail continued to pursue Davis. “Davis kept running and fired a handgun at MacPhail, who was shot and fell,” Justice Melton wrote. “Davis then stood over MacPhail smiling and fired again. Altogether, MacPhail was shot three times, once in the face, once in the right thigh and once in the chest.”
The father of two, a former Army Ranger, was dead.
Earlier in the evening, another shooting had occurred. A bullet retrieved by the hospital “was similar to bullets from the murder scene. Shell casings retrieved from the two scenes were matched with greater certainty.” Davis was identified at trial as the man who shot the earlier victim.
The defense contended at trial that Coles was the shooter. But trial evidence enabled the jury to conclude that Davis had clubbed the homeless man and had murdered Officer MacPhail.
As to the recanting witnesses, the justices noted that sworn trial testimony reflects fresher memories and includes public oaths, cross-examination, a presiding judge.
A recantation certainly raises questions about the witnesses’ trial testimony and has to be weighed as to whether the original testimony was pure fabrication.
An acquaintance of Davis, Jeffrey Sapp, testified at trial that he had admitted striking the homeless man and killing the officer. He lied, he said, because officers pressured him.
Another witness, Kevin McQueen, had testified that Davis had confessed to him in jail he had murdered MacPhail because the officer had seen his face. He said in a 1996 affidavit, after the trial, he’d lied because he was angry at Davis.
“We note,” wrote Justice Melton, “that, even if the recantations … were credited as true, they would show merely that Davis did not admit his guilt to these witnesses, not that Davis was not guilty.”
The homeless man, Larry Young, gave testimony “that tended to identify Davis as the one who struck him.” That was based on what the men were wearing and where they were standing. A dozen years later, Young said in an affidavit that he was “unable to remember what anyone looked like or what different people were wearing” and he “just couldn’t tell who did what.”
Wrote Justice Melton: “This new expression of uncertainty fails to show that Davis was not in fact the perpetrator …”
Collins said at trial in 1991 that he saw Davis strike Young — important because others testified that the same person who struck the homeless man murdered MacPhail.
A dozen years after the fact, Collins said he did not witness Davis striking Young. “This testimony does not in any way show that Davis was not guilty of striking Young and shooting MacPhail …” Melton wrote.
It boils down to this: Do you believe the witness testifying closest to the murder — or the revised testimony and memories of a decade or more later? Some of those who changed their testimony blamed police pressure. But it’s just as easy to believe that they felt pressure from opponents of the death penalty to spare Davis from the justice his crime warrants. The cop-out position now is: You can’t be certain; besides, he’ll never get out of prison.
MacPhail is an abstraction, a long-dead husband and father who’s not here to plead for his life. He’s not here with a public relations campaign and legal team trying to revise history. He is dead. Davis killed him.
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By Churchill
September 30, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this
Today’s Palin
Palin’s (Conservative) Problem? Even as Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin prepares for Thursday night’s vice presidential debate against Delaware Sen. Joe Biden, an increasing number of Republicans and conservatives are expressing reservations about both her candidacy and the way in which she is being used (or not used) by John McCain’s campaign.
The trouble began late last week with what was widely seen as a disastrous Palin interview with CBS News anchor Katie Couric in which the vice presidential nominee was barely intelligible on relatively basic questions of foreign policy. (Is it just us or has Couric been kicking a* in the last few weeks? It isn’t just us; the Post’s Howie Kurtz seems to agree.)
That “performance” was — luckily for the McCain campaign — largely drowned out by coverage of the ongoing fight on Capitol Hill over the bailout of the country’s financial institutions.
But, it did not go entirely unnoticed particularly by several prominent conservative opinion makers.
Kathleen Parker penned a column on Friday in which she asserted: “As we’ve seen and heard more from John McCain’s running mate, it is increasingly clear that Palin is a problem.”
And, Parker added — more cuttingly:
“If Palin were a man, we’d all be guffawing, just as we do every time Joe Biden tickles the back of his throat with his toes. But because she’s a woman — and the first ever on a Republican presidential ticket — we are reluctant to say what is painfully true.”
And then yesterday morning two more conservatives seemed to express doubts about the way in which Palin was being used on the campaign trail.
Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, who many within the establishment of the GOP saw as the smartest choice as vice president, told MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” that: “Holding Sarah Palin to just three interviews and microscopically focusing on each interview I think has been a mistake, I think they’d be a lot wiser to let Sarah Palin be Sarah Palin. Let her talk to the media, let her talk to people.”
Bill Kristol, in his column for the New York Times echoed that sentiment. “McCain needs to liberate his running mate from the former Bush aides brought in to handle her — aides who seem to have succeeded in importing to the Palin campaign the trademark defensive crouch of the Bush White House,” wrote Kristol.
It’s hard to know — looking at the polls — whether these rising voices of discontent on the right will change how Republicans and conservatives view Palin.
Polling conducted by the Washington Post and ABC News last week suggests that Palin’s numbers remain consistently strong with both groups. (Thanks as always goes to Post polling analyst Jennifer “J-Bug” Agiesta for her help in culling the numbers.)
Among Republicans, Palin had an 87 percent favorable score and just a seven percent unfavorable score, roughly the same ratings she received in a Post/ABC poll conducted in early September.
Palin’s favorable rating among self identified conservatives stood at 84 percent in the latest Post poll while her unfavorables were at a paltry nine percent. Those numbers compare favorably to the early September Post poll when Palin’s fav/unfav score among conservatives stood at 77/12.
What’s clear from those numbers is that Palin has some margin for error before the McCain campaign needs to begin worrying about a revolt on its right flank.
But, the polling data does not mean that the recent unhappiness among conservative opinion-makers will have no effect on the race.
Among independents, Palin saw her favorable ratings drop from 60 percent in early September to just 48 percent last week while her unfavorable ratings rose from 26 percent to 36 percent.
These independent voters are likely to be influenced by the conventional wisdom of the chattering class. As those in the so-called “Gang of 500” become more pessimistic about Palin, independent and undecided voters are more likely see her in a more negative light.
Talk to Palin advisers, however, and they insist that she is working to reclaim her public identity. “She wants people to see and hear more of the original Sarah Palin,” said one adviser to Palin who was granted anonymity to speak freely. “A renewed approach started [Monday] with a commanding performance wrapping up her commitment to Katie Couric and CBS.” (Palin was more forceful in her co-interview with McCain yesterday with Couric.)
Palin’s best chance to change this narrative in the campaign is to outperform expectations during Thursday night’s debate. She must appear competent in her knowledge of issues and willing to occasionally go off her script in order to change the cementing conventional wisdom. The Palin adviser, seeking to lower expectations for Thursday night predicted: “Palin is being Palin but she knows she’s got her work cut out for her with the 35-year debate society champ from Delaware.”
Regardless of the expectations game, if Palin can’t change the story line Thursday night, it is a MAJOR problem for McCain.
By Senator Saxby Chambliss
September 30, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this
I know many of you in the Banking community that gave me money to buy my vote are upset but let me set the record straight, my policy is cash only NO REFUNDS. It is not my fault that there are actually some Republicans in the House who think they work for the taxpayer not lobbyist. Just remember thet with Saxby Special Interest Chambliss is always on the LOBBYIST side not the taxpayer.
By Get Real
September 30, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this
“Quick let’s change the subject and talk about something else! Forget the market lost more points yesterday than any day in history and McCain looks like a fool because House Republicans got their feelings hurt. CHANGE THE SUBJECT”
-Jim Wooten
By Mid-South Philosopher
September 30, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this
Good morning, Jim,
I am sorry to totally ignor the topic of your blog today, but I have just listened to the President’s Tuesday morning statement concerning the Congressional rejection of the bail out plan.
What I just heard was the living personification of corporatism (i.e, capitalistic communism). I have been talking about this for sometime on this blog to much skepticism from friends and adversaries alike.
Well, folks, for those of you who thought ole Mid-South was just a crotchity old man who just dreamed up stuff to criticize Georgie Bush about, enjoy the ride. Because, thanks to the corporatists we are going to experience one the like of which we have never experienced before.
Don’t re-elect anybody!
By Ragnar Danneskjöld
September 30, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this
Good morning all. Circumstantial evidence is better than eye-witness in every case. The circumstantial evidence alone is sufficient to convict beyond reasonable doubt. So long as there is no doubt that Davis shot the first man – evidently uncontradicted – the matching casings from the murder of the policeman, same evening, convict Davis. No anguish here, I’ll throw the switch.
However, I am troubled by the Sapp and Collins recantations, which I assume were offered under oath. Each should be tried for perjury. Sapp should be permitted to attempt to prove his defense, that the police pressured him into lying. Collins should be tried for his false statement at trial, to which crime he has now confessed. (Raises the funny conundrum, if Collins admits he lies under oath, does he lie about lying?) Yes, I know both cases are long outside the current criminal statute of limitations – it’s easy to say you lied under oath when there is no consequence for the prior “lie.” Perhaps the statute of limitations ought to be extended for witnesses in a capital murder case, since those cases last 20 years.
By Peter
September 30, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this
Jim,
We are amazed at your choice of topic……….Jim, more folks are saying Sarah Palin is a selfish pick on the McLost part.
She is in NO way qualified to run America in the event of McLosts death.
One more reason to realize John McLost is making PERSONAL CHOICES, and NOT choices GOOD FOR AMERICA !
How would you trust the guy after this first most IMPORTANT CHOICE……..?
Soccer Mom for President ?
By Ragnar Danneskjöld
September 30, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this
Dear Churchill @ every day, PDS runs deep within you, does it not? Obsession?
Dear Get Real @ 8:52, conservatives can multi-task. That is how you are so easily bamboozled, as you cannot shift gears. Nevertheless, I can understand your affection for Ms. Pelosi’s stellar performance yesterday, exemplary of her work in the Congress since becoming Speaker. And I understand you disagree with the conservative efforts to constrain the size of the bailout, as you are wedded to corporate welfare as your preferred form of industrial policy.
Our leftist friends will appreciate Pat Buchanan’s affectionate remembrance of this date in history, 70 years ago, when Neville Chamberlain preserved peace in his time through negotiations with a certain dictatorship. He brought back the piece of paper bearing the signature of Adolf Hitler. Note to my conservative friends, it really is an affectionate remembrance – this is one of those issues where Buchanan stands firmly with Obama.
By Ga Values
September 30, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this
Why I oppose the bailout 1. The bailout bill had NO enforcement provisions for the so-called oversight group that was going to monitor Wall Street’s spending of the $700 billion;
It had NO penalties, fines or imprisonment for any executive who might steal any of the people’s money;
It did NOTHING to force banks and lenders to rewrite people’s mortgages to avoid foreclosures — this bill would not have stopped ONE foreclosure!;
It had NO teeth anywhere in the entire piece of legislation, using words like “suggested” when referring to the government being paid back for the bailout;
Over 200 economists wrote to Congress and said this bill might actually WORSEN the “financial crisis” and cause even MORE of a meltdown.
By Amazey McAmazeyson
September 30, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
Peter. Shut up. Go haunt Bookman, you leftist vermin. My vote is for a soccer ball in your cyber pie hole so you will stfu. Do you ever do anything besides spread ALL CAPS HYSTERIA against honorable people running for office? gfy.
By Peter
September 30, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
Hey……..By Amazey McAmazeyson …….
Lemmings without intelligence !
Thank you for showing yourself !
Soccer Mom for President !
Song Bird of Hanoi for President !
HA HA HA………..
By Churchill's mom
September 30, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this
my Palin is better than my son’s
A month after Gov. Sarah Palin joined Senator John McCain’s ticket to a burst of excitement and anticipation among Republicans, she heads into a critical debate facing challenges from conservatives about her credentials, signs that her popularity is slipping and evidence that Republicans are worried about how much help she will be for Mr. McCain in November. Ms. Palin, the Republican vice-presidential nominee, flew to Mr. McCain’s ranch in Sedona, Ariz., on Monday for three days of preparation with a team of his aides — a sharp contrast to the less structured preparation that led up to the senator’s first debate.
The amount of time and staff power being devoted to this was evidence of concern among Mr. McCain’s associates that Ms. Palin’s early triumphs — a well-received convention speech, her drawing of big crowds — has been overtaken by a series of setbacks, creating higher stakes for her in the debate Thursday with the Democratic nominee for vice president, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware.
“I think she has pretty thoroughly — and probably irretrievably — proven that she is not up to the job of being president of the United States,” David Frum, a former speechwriter for President Bush who is now a conservative columnist, said in an interview. “If she doesn’t perform well, then people see it.
“And this is a moment of real high anxiety, a little bit like 9/11, when people look to Washington for comfort and leadership and want to know that people in charge know what they are doing.”
Ms. Palin, of Alaska, continues to draw large crowds, is helping Mr. McCain with fund-raising and drawing volunteers, and is drumming up support among base Republican voters who were once skeptical of his candidacy, party leaders said in interviews. Yet these rough two weeks have led some Republicans to reconsider their initial assessment that she would sharply increase Mr. McCain’s appeal among women and independent voters.
Her halting interview with Katie Couric on CBS News alarmed many Republicans and gave fodder for a devastating parody on Saturday Night Live.
“I think the Katie Couric interview shows that she needs to be briefed more on certain aspects,” said Jim Greer, the Republican chairman in Florida. “She continues to be viewed very positively by the base of the party, but she needs to demonstrate that she’s got the knowledge and ability to be president should the need arise.”
Polling suggests that the number of Americans who think she is not fit to be president has increased since her introduction to the country last month. A number of conservative columnists and thinkers have publicly turned against her, or criticized Mr. McCain for choosing her, including George Will, David Brooks and Kathleen Parker, who wrote a column entitled “She’s Out of Her League” for the National Review Online.
Mr. Frum noted the difficulty that Dan Quayle, who was elected vice president in 1988, had in recovering from an early set of mistakes that led him to be ridiculed as an intellectual lightweight. “The story of Dan Quayle is he did probably 1,000 smart things as vice president, but his image was locked in and it was very difficult to turn around,” he said. “And Dan Quayle never in his life has performed as badly as Sarah Palin in the last month.”
Several Republicans said that all of this could ultimately play to Ms. Palin’s benefit, lowering expectations for her so much that a mediocre performance in the debate could be hailed as a success.
“Thanks to the mainstream media, quite a low expectation has been created for her performance,” said Ron Carey, chairman of Minnesota’s Republican Party. “The style of Sarah Palin is going to amaze people. She is going to be able to amaze people with the substance she is going to deliver.”
And Mr. McCain’s aides disputed the expressions of concern and said that if anything, the barrage of criticism and the performance in the few television interviews she has done gave her a low bar to clear in the debate. “I seriously hope that people continue to underestimate the most popular governor in America and a woman who speaks to the heart of America’s economic angst,” said Nicolle Wallace, a senior adviser to Mr. McCain.
And Mr. McCain, appearing with Ms. Palin in another interview with Ms. Couric on Monday night, offered a hearty endorsement. “I’ve seen underestimation before,” he said. “I’m very proud of the excitement that Governor Palin has ignited with our party and around this country. It is a level of excitement and enthusiasm, frankly, that I haven’t seen before.”
Ms. Palin is getting ready for the debate at a time of enormous uncertainty about a highly complicated issue, the unfolding crisis on Wall Street, which makes preparing for the face off especially hard.
And the McCain campaign appears to be leaving nothing to chance. Ms. Palin will spend her preparation time at Mr. McCain’s vacation compound in Sedona, with her husband and children. She is practicing for the debate with Steve Beigun, a former staff member of Mr. Bush’s National Security Council; Randy Scheunemann, Mr. McCain’s chief foreign policy aide; Mark Wallace, a deputy campaign manager for Mr. Bush’s 2004 re-election campaign; and Ms. Wallace, who was a communications director in the Bush White House.
“This debate will probably determine her political persona for the rest of the campaign,” said Saul Anuzis, the Republican chairman of Michigan. “I expect Palin to show the country she is capable, articulate and has the leadership skills necessary to serve.”
Katon Dawson, the Republican chairman of South Carolina, said the debate was important to clear up what he described as misapprehensions about her created by “a pile-on by the media elite.”
“You don’t have this kind of negative, media attack without a question mark being put up,” he said. “She’s going to have a chance to erase that question mark.”
But Mike Murphy, who used to work as a senior adviser to Mr. McCain, said Ms. Palin’s performance in the campaign had underlined his argument that she was a bad choice for Mr. McCain. Mr. Murphy said he was skeptical that she could turn it around in one debate.
“She has the opportunity to undo some of the damage with a very strong debate performance,” he said. “That’s plausible. We’ll just have to wait and see.”
The rapid change in fortunes has led some Republicans to question the decision by Mr. McCain’s advisers to restrict her exposure to unscripted settings — town-hall-style meetings, news conferences or interviews — saying such events would have helped her prepare her for such high-profile interviews as the one with Ms. Couric, and the debate.
“I disagree with the campaign’s approach,” said Rick Wilson, a Republican consultant. “I think they ought to toss her into the deep end from the outset; let her get it over quickly. Everything else after that is, you’ve seen the elephant.”
Ms. Palin has traveled with a briefing team since Sept. 10. Two people close to the campaign, addressing her difficulties, said she had been stuffed with facts as if preparing for an oral exam and had become nervous and unnatural in the few interviews.
Advisers said she was a diligent worker and was frequently up until the small hours of the morning in her hotel room trying to cram as much information as possible before the debate.
“I think she has to be careful not to be overprogrammed for the debate,” said Robert T. Bennett, the Ohio Republican chairman. “I think she’s a lot brighter than people are giving her credit for.”
By SayNo2McCain
September 30, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
Wooten,
You were also sure that the Grandma who had the shootout with the Atlanta police was in the wrong.
I guess you are GOD today, because you are so sure that Davis killed the Savannah policeman.
You were also sure that Bush was the best man for the job as President.
You were also sure of the Republicans from yesterday’s disaster.
I wouldn’t bet the FARM, if I were you on this one.
7 out of 9 recanted their story. You wouldn’t believe them, if all 9 recanted. They would have to CHANGE everything about them, for that to happen.
By AmVet
September 30, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this
Wall Street said — vote for the bailout.
Obama said — vote for the bailout.
McCain said — vote for the bailout.
Bush said — vote for the bailout.
The House Democratic leadership said — vote for the bailout.
The Republican Democratic leadership said — vote the bailout.
But in overwhelming numbers and with outrage, the American people said — if you vote for this bailout, we will vote against you in November.
And so, today the House voted 228 to 205 against the bailout.
Do we have a pulse yet?
Maybe yes.
Yesterday, the American people rose up and slapped down the two Wall Street controlled political parties.
There is ONLY one national candidate for President untouched by Wall Street and not owned by K Street.
His name is Ralph Nader.
By Devastator
September 30, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this
Friday’s debate made it clear that Barack Obama will bring the change we need on issues facing service members, veterans, and military families.
Barack demonstrated his judgment on 21st century national security and foreign policy challenges, and an understanding of what it will take to show real global leadership.
A huge number of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans are supporting this campaign. In a recent study, donations from deployed troops went 6 to 1 for Barack.
These Next Generation Veterans for Obama put together a video about their support for Barack. Check it out and then share it with your friends and family and bring more voices into this movement for change.
Barack has the vision and judgment to be an excellent Commander in Chief — and the debate made this extremely clear.
He also demonstrated that he’ll be a fierce advocate for the middle class, with plans for the economy, health care, and energy independence that will keep us strong at home and abroad.
Veterans, military families, and those concerned about our national security and foreign policy need to spread the word that Barack Obama is the candidate with the judgment to lead us in this defining moment.
Please share this video today:
http://my.barackobama.com/nextgenvets
Thanks for everything you do,
Veterans and Military Families for Obama
By The Anti-Wooten
September 30, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this
This is precisely why many of us opposed to the death penalty. I will not kill anyone and I don’t want the government doing so on my behalf because there is that possibility of getting it wrong. Ragnar alludes to the fact that circumstantial evidence is enough to convict and I’ll agree with that. However, circumstantial evidence should NEVER be enough to warrant a death warrant. There are concerns that another committed this crime and his generally heinous behavior in the neighborhood was enough to prevent people from coming forward to say it was him. This is a person that on his own merits has spent a large portion in prison since that time. No doubts? I don’t think so.
If there’s any dooubt at all in a situation like this give life without parole because you can undo that. Once the switch is flipped, metaphorically, it can’t be undone.
By Ragnar Danneskjöld
September 30, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this
Dear GA Values @ 9:12, I share your perspective but for different reasons, all theoretical, and our leftist friends will be amused that my basis is Keynesian.
The housing bubble was purely a creation of government, a conglomeration of well-intentioned but ultimately stupid programs that goosed-up prices by interfering with the free market. Water always finds its level. While the government is the biggest individual player in the economy, the economy is always tremendously larger than the government (one of those rules of mathematics – the subset can never be larger than the set itself) and stupid government programs will always fail. Government can hold off disaster for a long time, but it cannot hold it off forever, i.e., FSLIC.
Usually, in the wake of a government screw-up, the best thing is to allow the market to restore the equilibrium itself. Do we risk a recession? Yes, although the fundamentals presently are pretty good. While our corporate tax base remains too high, and government domestic spending is unreasonably and corrosively too high, we have a moderate unemployment rate and a tolerable inflation rate. Will Chrysler and GM fail, and American airlines, and NBC and GE? Probably not GE, but all of the others will likely wind up in bankruptcy court. Not because of the mortgage bubble, but because they were already wounded entities, unable to tolerate a downturn in the economy, and banking (haha, a pun) on a belief that such a recession would never happen. We acknowledge that the “bailout” would have forestalled the inevitable.
By Jen
September 30, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
It doesn’t matter if he was involved in the shooting, well it does, but when we talk about applying The Death Penalty then we can’t just apply it without undoubtable proof…and we don’t have that. We can all agree that Mr Davis was hanging out with some bad people and probably was involved in some bad behavior.
But, we can’t prove he killed the cop when there were 2 other people involved, one who points the finger at Davis, potentially to avoid being accused himself.
He should not DIE. Our society should not end his life.
Commute to life in prison and MOVE ON.
By Ga Values
September 30, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this
Ragnar Danneskjöld
The market can & will take care of it. They were just trying the old make a bigger sucker pay ploy. I bailed from the stock market 4 years ago & have my money in different banks with no balance greater thak $100k. All my assets are paid for except & my childeren got 1st class educations. If things steady in the next few weeks I’ll buy some stock, there are lots of deals out there but I’d rather buy on the up tick than the bottom.
By getalife
September 30, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this
You pro life folks ♥ killing innocent people.
By GJ
September 30, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this
Jim, since you were not present at the scene AND you are not God (although you try to be)YOU DON’T KNOW what happened in the Davis case. I guess you forgot to mention that there was NO PHYSICAL evidence to show that Davis shot the officer.I guess the Pope and other world figures are wrong and you are right. You wish! Your ignorant comments are one -sided as usual. You are pathetic, trying to play God, judge and jury.
By Redneck Convert
September 30, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this
Well, it’s just like a bunch of libruls to want to let somebody out of the Death Penalty on account of some lying by witnesses against him. He got convicted fair and square. It don’t matter what the people that testified against him say later. People need to stick their finger in their ear and drown out the people that claim they lied at his trial.
If they need somebody to throw the switch I’m ready and able. Besides, the guy is one of Those People. Somebody got to pay for killing the cop, and it might as well be him. This is GA, not some yankee state. We kill 1st and let people ask questions later. It’s the American way.
Have a good day everybody.
By Dusty
September 30, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
Oh my goodness,
We are struck today with SPAM DNC SPAM aka the local yokel wandering minds. (Churchill, please change your ID to Puppet.)
The subject de jour is Davis and the Justice System. If the public is to decide on verdicts and the punishment that does or does not follow, WHO NEEDS A JUSTICE SYSTEM? Just gather a crowd and decide who wins. (And who needs lawyers, huh Ragnar??)
Anyway…. AmVet, although wandering, may have presented a few obvious political facts that he probably got together himself. His conclusions of correction are faulty (Vote for Ralph Nader and other fossils) but it wasn’t “canned” at least.
Buttt…You are correct, Jim Wooten.! No sympathy for drunken cop killers who shoot the very people who put their lives on the line to protect us. Puts a very sharp edge on my humane instincts.
Davis asked for his fate. Give it to him.
By findog
September 30, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this
Dear Jim,
I am glad that I work in an environment where a preponderance of evidence and scientific fact are the standard I must meet. I truly appreciate anyone who can meet the beyond any reasonable doubt threshold.
However to your point: “It’s the odd nature of high-profile cases that crucial misconceptions are repeated so often that spin becomes fact.” No, it is the odd nature of blogs that crucial misconceptions are repeated so often that spin becomes fact. Which came first I dare not speculate.
Finally, the problem with the actual case in point is that he was not tried before a jury of his peers. The jury certainly did not consist of twelve thugs who would deprive a homeless man of his sustenance.
By Prince's Hot Chicken Shack
September 30, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
Make him eat a whole chicken, extra hot. If it don’t kill him, it will sure fix his a- -.
By Dusty
September 30, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
RedNeck Convert,10:21
You are about as funny as a kick in the teeth. You disgrace the lowest trailer park with your outright prejudiced lies. You probably grew up in the suburbs of the Bronx and came here to spread your lying, licentiousness, lousiness, legumiousness, laziness, lapdog liberal language. I am using only the polite names for you but others less printable are more accurate.
Drive your beer truck back to the Bronx or better still to Canada. They take all our rejects so they will take you.
By Political Foreskin
September 30, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
Davis could have killed that officer. he was there. The recants are about peripheral evidence.
I’d fry him.
Clay Aiken wrote a new book, “If I was Gay”….OJ is the most influential writer in modern times.
Congress just issued a statement, “If we bail…” OJ, we hardly knew ye.
Cheney/Bush cowrote a book, “If we committed treason…” Hey! OJ!
I’m writing a book, “If I blogged with morons….” Oj, again!
By Times are A'Changin
September 30, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
By Dusty September 30, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this RedNeck Convert,10:21 You are about as funny as a kick in the teeth. You disgrace the lowest trailer park with your outright prejudiced lies
Careful Dusty. You and other kind and gentle folk might find yourselves living in a trailer park if this economy doesn’t turn around fast.
Remember ‘He who laughs does not always’..
By Southern Democrat
September 30, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
Admittedly, my reaction to today’s topic is heavily colored by my religious convictions. The death penalty, in my opinion, is not only a mortal sin, but is so perversely applied in American society as to make it a stain on all of us. The mere fact that there is ANY doubt should give us pause. As I can attest from visiting pro bono clients, life in prison without the possibility of parole is a miserable existence and truly (again, in my opinion) provides maximum opportunity for recognition of the wrongs done by the perpetrator and (hopefully) forgiveness from the victims or his/her families.
By candide
September 30, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this
It looks to me that conservatives have decided that Troy Davis must die; only putting fear into the blacks will make them behave and obey the law. This is how the KKK got started and it worked. Davis’ guilt or innocence is beside the point for conservatives. If you have a better way of making blacks behave let me know.
By robert hawkins
September 30, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
if mr. wooten is so sure of mr. davis’ guilt, i think it would me most appropriat for him to administer the lethal injection. testimony CAN be recanted, DEATH CANNOT.
By War and Peace
September 30, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
All you’d have to do to have a 24-volume collection is compile all the posts you’ve made to this blog.
I’m pretty sure Charmin would publish it and sell it in Sam’s Club.
By ron
September 30, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this
Good morning,As in all death penalty cases that I don’t know about personally,I have no opnion.I know what I read,but I have no idea how accurate the reports actually are,so to form an opinion as to Davis’s guilt would be impossible for me.
I support the death penalty for cases that are proven,but I also know that there are miscarriages of justice.People are wrongfully convicted.DNA evidence has cleared a number of convicted rapists where eye witnesses were wrong,for whatever reason.I’ll say this about the death penalty:If after the trial and the automatic appeal,if there still is no doubt,execute immediately.None of this 12 year or 34 year waiting period.If there is a doubt,then life without parole.That’s what judges and juries are for,to make these decisions.
By findog
September 30, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
Ragnar @9:12
I was asked by my daughter to explain the insurance option in the bill and how that might affect/effect the cost to the government. Ponderable’s a favorite past time I was shocked at what I had thought. The insurance option opens the lender to keep certain mortgages that will undoubtedly liquefy and produce profits in the near term while the, “cow patty with a marshmallow on top,” loans will be dropped onto the government’s balance sheet.
First would you concur with my thesis based on yesterday’s failed bill, and second if said thesis were plausible how would you modify the bill to prevent the escalating malfeasance?
@10:04 Problem with Keynesian mathematical models is that they cannot take into account greed, stupidity, or political interference to prevent the public feeling ANY pain. Increased government spending will actually pay for itself because it will spurn more spending that will be taxed thereby replacing the spending the fifth to eighth run. That canard is as ridiculous as the perpetual energy machine. I think it was during Reagan’s era that the great cleansing of the tax code was attempted. Consumers would forswear all interest payment deductions, except for mortgages, and business would do the same. Lasted what until the next session of congress and then all manner of tinkering with the tax code to promote economic development shifted the burden further onto the middle class?
Real problem is that the American people will not elect leaders who will do what is best for America’s long-term future because they believe the no pain – all gain cow patties modern day politicians sell them every two, four, or six years…
By GApeach
September 30, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
Thanks … for some of the details of the case which some “special” groups tend to overlook. If they can get a few to recant their story … wha-la!! Davis isn’t executed. This has become the norm. If there is no doubt and a verdict rendered then create some doubt by getting some of those who testified to recant their stories.
By GApeach
September 30, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
Thanks … for some of the details of the case which some “special” groups tend to overlook. If they can get a few to recant their story … wha-la!! Davis isn’t executed. This has become the norm. If there is no doubt and a verdict rendered then create some doubt by getting some of those who testified to recant their stories.
By GApeach
September 30, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
Thanks … for some of the details of the case which some “special” groups tend to overlook. If they can get a few to recant their story … wha-la!! Davis isn’t executed. This has become the norm. If there is no doubt and a verdict rendered then create some doubt by getting some of those who testified to recant their stories.
By Andrea
September 30, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
HA! I love it!
Mr. Wooten we know that you are avoiding the McCain/Palin topic today seeing as though you’ve been wrong every step of the way. More importantly, you do know the McCain campaign is a joke but you will NEVER admit to it because you don’t want to see a Black man in the White House. Thank fully, most do want change in which race, religion and gender are not a factors but unfortunately there will always be those few (You being one of them) who will always resist.
Since you obviously are a man all about the “status quo”, it must be a bummer to realize that change is on the forefront when you thought change would never materialize. Kind of like when George C. Wallace said, “segregation now, segregation tomorrow and segregation forever!” You know Mr. Wallace was sick to his stomach when he realized that his ignorant way of thinking was no longer acceptable. Wow, talk about a rude awakening for Mr. Wallace.
You, Mr. Wooten, are still sleepwalking but your rude awaking is imminent; you poor, poor little man.
By Dusty
September 30, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
Time Are Achanging @10:50
I’d live in a tent before I would live near a poseur like the surreptitious liberal RedNeck Convert.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with living in a trailer. Like any other home, it can be good or bad. But RedNeck infuses his personal politics into the persona of a fictional deadhead as representing the worker portion of America.
He is neither a truck driver nor trailer dweller nor some kind of KKK. He is simply a liberal undercover agent using hsi endorphen inducing “comics” to convince you that ignorance reigns outside of the liberal knighthood.
He’s a phony. So is Captain Freedom. The Captain does it as the elite. But they come from the same propaganda of satire from the subterranean society of impersonators.
By State retiree II
September 30, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
DAVID IS A COP KILLER — TO BAD OLD SPARKY ISN’T STILL IN OPERATION because this guy needs to burn baby burn! God Bless all of our public sector employees, especially our police and fire fighters. Who do you call when you need help?
By hotlanta
September 30, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
Wooten why are you changing the story. Let’s stick to the issues. Palin is an idiot and Mcshame is a crook. Maverick please ask him to spell it.
By Ragnar Danneskjöld
September 30, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
Dear findog @ 11:12, you are correct about the “insurance” option, but only to the extent that life insurance companies daily make a bad bet also. As I understand the insurance program – note my weasel-worded caveat – the real plan is to create an FDIC-equivalent for the mortgage securities, front-funded by the government, with long-term premiums to be paid by those who take the insurance. Do not know if there is a requirement for stock warrants equal to the purchased-securities – as in the original conservative proposal - but there ought to be, to lock them into the insurance program.
Please allow me to clarify my earlier writing: my argument is based on the underpinnings of Keynesian thought, not any models – I have little respect for Keynesian models generally, and I hope the entirety of my post reflects my suspicion of econometrics as a science. Here is a Harvard economics lecturer who offers the jbmlaw solution to the housing panic.
By Sean Cavity
September 30, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
Let me get this straight, some of the Republican leaders in the House are saying that their fellow members were talked out of their convictions by a liberal woman? That they were pursuaded to change their minds by a chick wearing a designer skirt? So who had their panties in a wad yesterday? Oh yeah, House Republicans.
By w just passed jimmy
September 30, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
Craig Crawford blogs for CQ: “George W. Bush’s White House has gone belly up, not unlike those big banks that failed. The president’s political credit was revoked today as his financial bailout failed to pass in the House of Representatives.
“This is what happens to a president who lied to Congress to start a war, among other things — even if this time he is proposing the best thing for the country.”
Justin Webb blogs for the BBC: “With the Republican revolt in the House of Representatives, President Bush is now confirmed as the weakest Commander-in-Chief in modern history.
“He puts Jimmy Carter in the shade. Just as well America faces no serious problems.”
By Demi
September 30, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
Dems….be careful of Palin. I have a feeling her actions last week was just for show. If Biden isn’t careful…He will end up looking like a fool.
The mightiest have falling plenty of times in our history.
Demi is p!ss, ‘cause his follow Repubs are looking like a bunch of fools on Capital Hill.
By 2muchdoubt
September 30, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
did anyone forget that one of the “eye” witnesses pointed at davis but was later pointed out by others that recanted as the one who actually pulled the trigger. in fact he is one of the 2 who hasn’t recanted kind of makes you wonder why he can’t be reached for comment and is sticking to his story could it be because he is the cop killer in question. He had a lot to lose and everything to gain by pointing a false finger at davis. 2 much doubt
By can w pass thruman??
September 30, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
“The all-time low rating for any president is 22%, for Harry Truman in February 1952. Bush now joins Truman and Richard Nixon as the only presidents who have had approval ratings of 27% or lower in Gallup Polls.”
By Ragnar Danneskjöld
September 30, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
Dear Sean @ 11:56, the WSJ has an amusing alternative explanation of the conservative abandonment of the Paulson program. It says the whip count yesterday morning was 70 votes for the plan, until Paulson came by personally to explain it, and thereafter the vote for the plan was 20. The lunatic speech by Madame Speaker only solidified the inclinations of the rational.
By Ragnar Danneskjöld
September 30, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
Dear Sean @ 11:56, I heard that the Dale Carnegie people were demanding that Nancy return her certificate.
By Ragnar Danneskjöld
September 30, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
Dear Pofo, I heard the Norman Vincent Peale people issued a fatwa against the democrat party.
By Ashton Kutcher
September 30, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
And, of course, I agree with Demi … which I always will until she cuts me off … or starts looking like Phyllis Diller.
By Saxby Has Got To Go
September 30, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
I see where our senior Senator has chosen this blog to announce his no return policy. A few weeks ago when Jim did a hatchet job on Allen Buckley, I thought Jim was smoking dope about Saxby being defeated but at our local GOP meeting thursday everyone was talking about voting for Buckley rather than Saxby. Guess Chambliss has stuck his finger in the eye of the Georgia voter once too often. Jim good call, Saxby might just be defeated.
By Times are A'Changin
September 30, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
Dusty @ 11:26
Dusty, I know Redneck is neither KKK, a beer truck driver or trailer dweller, and that he employs satire to get his point across.
My prior comment was simply to make a point that many of us may be downsizing if this economy doesn’t improve. I too have no problem with where a person lives. I’ve known pigs who live in apartments, trailers and HUGE houses. I’ve also known the nicest of people who live in all of the above. It doesn’t matter where we live or the income bracket where we fall, the cream will rise to the top.
By ron
September 30, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
Dusty— I have this vision that I can’t seem to get out of my head.It’s of Redneck’s 325 pound wife standing before me wearing nothing but a grin.Awful,ain’t it?
Ragnar—The money stealers,hereafter to be referred to as the moy stealers,haven’t screwed up the insurance companies yet so it is still possible for you and I to get auto insurance at a somewhat reasonable rate. They haven’t totaled out the money market funds,as far as we know.The FDIC is still insuring deposits of $100,00 per bank.Let’s leave it that way.If there is some sort of FDIC type insurance scheme to protect these cretins it will simply be a revolving money fund where they can dip and double dip etc.You know how governments work.
Did I read correctly that governments routinely collect only 18 cents on the dollar after these financial meltdowns?Like the ones in the recent past.
Today the market rises and tomorrow it goes back down.
$630 billion infused yesterday before the vote and not a lot written about it.From the Fed.Bernanke.I hope it’s all his money.I’ve lost track.How deep are we in now?
By Demi
September 30, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
The lunatic speech by Madame Speaker only solidified the inclinations of the rational.
You mean to tell me my follow Repubs were punk by some ugly Bish and wanted to show the nation whose still in charge by voting no?
Wouldn’t it have been better if my follow Repubs had said, ”No!! We do not agree with these terms, the American people must come first!!!”, in the first place?
Demi is now hiring one of D.C.’s top Escort service in hope of finding the Republican’s Balls…and then some.
Regardless, has the house speakers, she needs to learn how to control her tongue better. This was the failure on her part as a leader.
By Sean Cavity
September 30, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
Ragnar, no doubt that Pelosi’s speech was moronic (at best). But for Boehner and others to suggest that she somehow influenced the most important vote these guys have made since the war referendum is nothing short of embarrassing. Were they voting for the merits (or lack thereof) of the bill or were they voting on the quality of Pelosi’s speech? It’s okay to say that they didn’t like the bill, but that’s NOT what Boehner led with, instead, he said they got punked by “Nancy Nordstrom”. And what self-respecting man would ever offer such a horrific confession?
By Maniac is accurate
September 30, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
ron, it’s better than having her stand over you in those circumstances. Yuck.
By Political Forescam
September 30, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this
Ragnar, I heard from the Edgar Cayce center that because of sewer eels, you should not sit on your throne at home tonight.
By WillieBkind
September 30, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
On fox: “Today I turn over my space to Andrew Jackson, the seventh president of the United States, who said these fiery words to a delegation of bankers in 1832:”
“Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”
I am there!! Impeach Pelosi too!!!
By willie
September 30, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
I am ambivalent about the bailout. I think not loaning money to desperate people, rich wall street members, and people living above their means is simply good business. It is not good for businesses that are using it as payroll. However, I have been screaming to put “do nothing Pelosi” on the blogs. Yes, I know the DNC gives the AJC their marching orders every morning. A letter most likely with all the misinformation and misdirection they could possibly use to shape local and national events. And there are the storm troopers who are professional DNC bloggers changing the topics with drive by anti Palin liberal media posts. “Do nothing Pelosi” finally came forward and what did she do but spew hate and partisan rants in the middle of a vote. Now that is REAL leadership by wacko liberals! I congratulate you. I believe you think that is far better than the speculation of what Sarah Palin would be like? Why are the independents waiting for Sara Palin to make her mark? They should give their total attention to Pelosi’s *inactions. Not paying attention to Pelosi is simply out of reason and out of touch. Pelosi is already there destroying any positive movements by bipartisanship members of the house. Pelosi is *more responsible for the shape of the financial world in the months she has been speaker than the eight years of Bush. She, just like the liberals, is responsible for no energy plan and that is the root of all this evil. Just think what a partnership she will have with liberal Obama. The damage to this country could be greater than the Great Depression. Yes it will have detrimental effects on mainstreet. Good rhetoric will not fix it. WAKE UP AMERCIA!! The liberals are destroying our country. Look at the speaker’s abilities and not VP’s.
By Ragnar Danneskjöld
September 30, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
Dear Willie @ 12:59, I yield to your genius – great quote.
By Ragnar Danneskjöld
September 30, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
Devastator sings the praises of Dear Leader.
By BS Aplenty
September 30, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
It does seem odd that with so many recanting Davis doesn’t indicate he’s just innocent of the crime altogether. But I haven’t heard that claim - maybe I missed it. I would certainly wonder whether he had an alibi for the crime or whether this late defense strategy is solely related to his punishment as you imply, Jim. None of the naysayers seems to take issue with his guilt just his punishment. That seems to say a lot.
I also don’t know what happened to Coles and Collins but it doesn’t appear they’re on death row. Given their circumstances as accomplices maybe they should be thankful they’re not on death row, too.
By alan
September 30, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
Davis trial recanting proves nothing solid….And neither does your baseless rant! I bet you and your ilk are bleeding at heart and longing for the good ole days when all you had to do was to hang him on a tree with the automatic permission of the one-man sheriff in town.
You are a typical southern relic, and hopefully when you and your ilk are gone, America can continue to move on to build a better union for ALL of its citizens!
By the way, have you ever even travelled outside of Georgia before? Maybe the Brit is asking you to not only mentally think outside the “box,” but to also physically step outside the “box”—-the South, that is, at least for once.
alan
By Devastator
September 30, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
Har de har, righty. Sticks and stones may make me cry, but I’ll get over it … some day.
By Saxby Has Got To Go
September 30, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
This was just posted on the Politial Insider.. Hats off to Jim for knowing how unhappy Georgia voters are with Saxby.. PS Saxby those Iowa Corn Farmers & New York Land Speculators you have been working for CAN’T vote in Georgia.
WMAZ poll: Chambliss and Martin separated by 2 points Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 12:22 PM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
WMAZ-TV in Macon has just put out a new SurveyUSA poll that indicates the presidential and U.S. Senate races in Georgia have tightened significantly during the economic free-fall.
Bottom line: They’ve got Republican John McCain, who had held a 16-point lead, is now polling 52 percent, with Democrat Barack Obama at 44 percent.
But the eye-opener may be the race between Republican incumbent Saxby Chambliss and Democrat Jim Martin. SurveyUSA says it’s now a two-point race, 46 percent to 44 percent.
Margin of error is plus or minus 3.8 percent, with 677 likely voters polled.
Libertarian Allen Buckley isn’t mentioned in this WMAZ posting.
The Macon-based survey is not dissimilar to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee poll noted in this space yesterday, which put Chambliss at 37 percent, Martin at 34 percent, and Buckley at 3 percent.
By Copyleft
September 30, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
Huh. The report on the illegal U.S. attorney firings came out… and Mr. Wooten remains silent on the subject.
I wonder why?
Oh, and I’m STILL waiting for his inspirational column about what a great president McLame will make, and how all conservatives should be delighted to vote for him… about seven months and counting now…
When’s it coming, Jim? I know you’ve got a HUGE backlog of prewritten Obama smear-pieces piling up in your inbox, but surely you can come up with something good to say about your own candidate, right? RIGHT?
“Thinking Right”—the greatest oxymoron of the year.
By Peter
September 30, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
Hey Copyleft……… Great thought………“Thinking Right”—the greatest oxymoron of the year.
Personally I asked Jim to rename the Column as well…….
The US DEFICIT is how large……… how many Trillions TODAY ?
There is ZERO Common Sense, Accountability or Conservatism in REPUBLICAN ECONOMICS !
Good thing the USA is Flush with Cash after all the stuff we have gone through !
“Thinking Right Not Wrong. Not Left. Right. Common sense conservativism”
WHAT a LINE OF BALONEY…….. JUST A FLAY OUT LIE !
Soccer Mom for President…..
SHE has seen Russia from Afar……….so with the next statement……..since she stayed at a “Best Western” last night……….. she is so knowledgeable in the realm of foreign policy, and qualified to be the President the USA !
Soccer MOM for President…….!!!!!!!
By Political Foreskin
September 30, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
Jbmlaw, I yield to you and your ilk-moustache trolls, @@, Dusty, and RW. (If that is actually ilk……ew)
Easily amused and over-impressed with hackery is no way to blog, sir.
Oh, is the economy cyclical? Who knew?
Foreign banks, and the foreign country’s that own them are threatening Bush et al. Bush is so scared he’s pulling out every last vestige of his credibility and authority, (which aint much) to convince congress to pass this bill.
Did you love congress’s hearings with the treasury secretary, where only the boldest of the bold dared to try to catagorize the crisis? Nobody, and I mean nobody is in charge here.
Anyone that could possibly explain it to us are taking the fifth.
You’d take the fifth too.
By Ragnar Danneskjöld
September 30, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this
Dear PoFo @ 2:00, and drink it in one sitting.
By Political Foreskin
September 30, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
D’oh! You and your ilk-moustache trolls (like that?) may have won this exchange, jbmlaw, and yes, it hurts, maybe I’m down, but I’m not out.
I’ll be back, sir. I’ll be back. You’ll see.
By Saxby Has Got To Go
September 30, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
Jim, you the man.. revisions to the US Senate poll have Buckley @5%.. let’s hope he hits 10 or better..
WXIA/WMAZ poll: McCain-Obama race tightens in Georgia, Chambliss and Martin separated by 2 points Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 12:22 PM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
WXIA in Atlanta and WMAZ in Macon have just put out a new SurveyUSA poll that indicates the presidential and U.S. Senate races in Georgia have tightened significantly during the economic free-fall.
Bottom line: The two TV stations say Republican John McCain, who had held a 16-point lead two weeks ago, is now polling 52 percent, with Democrat Barack Obama at 44 percent. Only 2 percent are undecided.
Margin of error is plus or minus 3.8 percent, with 677 likely voters polled.
The biggest swings in the presidential race are among young voters and those with household incomes of less than $50,000.
Click here to get to some of the cross tabs.
One interesting statistic, simply because it reflects intensity:
Among the 9% of Georgia voters who say they have already voted, Obama leads by 29 points; among those who have not yet voted, McCain leads by 12.
But the real eye-opener may be the race between Republican incumbent Saxby Chambliss and Democrat Jim Martin. SurveyUSA says it’s now a two-point race, 46 percent to 44 percent. Libertarian Allen Buckley is at 5 percent.
That’s not dissimilar to the DSCC poll noted in this space yesterday, which put Chambliss at 37 percent, Martin at 34 percent, and Buckley at 3 percent.
By Ragnar Danneskjöld
September 30, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
Dear PoFo @ 2:00. just in case you were serious, here is the best explanation of the housing bubble yet.
By Political Foreskin
September 30, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
Curses!
By Political Foreskin
September 30, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
Well, folks. it looks like I’ve been deposed by jbmlaw with one line @2:03 and then one link (@2:16) to a clinical psychological test that Clay Aiken submitted to in order to belay his homo-erotic latency, (complete with instructions on where to place the electric cables.)
I am humbled and really feel embarrassed that I thought I was such a big shot, when I’m clearly out of my league.
blog on and prosper, my fine friend across the bar…..
By Manny
September 30, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
I was waiting for the “Thinking Right” response to the bailout bill that failed… especially when the previous post was touting McCain’s judgment.
Alas, even Jim can’t save face.
By AmVet
September 30, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
Saxby Has Got To Go,
Yowzers!!!
Do I dare get my hopes up??!!
Is this possibly another miracle on ice??!!
That despicable man, as much or more than any of the other craven, chicken hawk neo-cons, deserves to be run out of Washington DC on a rail.
And IMHO, anyone who voted for him after those repulsive ads about an American hero deserves to be conscripted.
And then fragged.
Now ask me what I really think!
By Ragnar Danneskjöld
September 30, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
Dear PoFo @ 2:25, you don’t fool me – you will never give up. Just as Superman would never yield the world to Lex Luthor, you will be back.
By Filster
September 30, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
Of course Sarah is qualified to run the country of McCain kicks the bucket. Haven’t you guys seen that little action doll figure of hers in that little schoolgril outfit? She’d have Putin eating out of the palm of her hand within five minutes.
By AmVet
September 30, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
Ford pardoned Nixon and look what that got him.
Gore had to carry Clinton’s cigar-laden baggage into the 2000 election and look what that got him.
And now poor John McCain, rightfully or not, has to carry the many Bush debacles with him into this one.
Let’s see what that gets him.
By Beth O.
September 30, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA -
A Ghetto Used Car Salesman
“Community Organizer” and “Communist” Both Share the Same Root Word
Snorting Coke and Being Amorous with Other Men Since 1999
By AmVet
September 30, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
OK, you strict Constitutionalist posers, how would Judge Scalia, Roberts et al rule on this one?
Pastors’ Political Endorsements Draw Complaints
A church-state separation group filed complaints Monday with the Internal Revenue Service against six churches whose pastors either endorsed or made pointed comments about political candidates from their pulpits Sunday in defiance of federal tax law.
Five of the six supported Republican presidential candidate John McCain. The sixth, Wiley Drake of First Southern Baptist Church in Buena Park, Calif., said: “According to my Bible and in my opinion, there is no way in the world a Christian can vote for Barack Hussein Obama.” Drake was not among the pastors Alliance Defense Fund selected for the protest and was acting independently.
The five others reported to the IRS were Jody Hice of Bethlehem First Baptist Church in Bethlehem, Ga.; Paul Blair of Fairview Baptist Church in Edmond, Okla.; Gus Booth of Warroad Community Church in Warroad, Minn.; Francis Pultro of Calvary Chapel Kings Highway in Philadelphia; and Luke Emrich of New Life Church in West Bend, Wis.
By AmVet
September 30, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
OK, you strict Constitutionalist posers, how would Judge Scalia, Roberts et al rule on this one?
Pastors’ Political Endorsements Draw Complaints
A church-state separation group filed complaints Monday with the Internal Revenue Service against six churches whose pastors either endorsed or made pointed comments about political candidates from their pulpits Sunday in defiance of federal tax law.
Five of the six supported Republican presidential candidate John McCain. The sixth, Wiley Drake of First Southern Baptist Church in Buena Park, Calif., said: “According to my Bible and in my opinion, there is no way in the world a Christian can vote for Barack Hussein Obama.” Drake was not among the pastors Alliance Defense Fund selected for the protest and was acting independently.
The five others reported to the IRS were Jody Hice of Bethlehem First Baptist Church in Bethlehem, Ga.; Paul Blair of Fairview Baptist Church in Edmond, Okla.; Gus Booth of Warroad Community Church in Warroad, Minn.; Francis Pultro of Calvary Chapel Kings Highway in Philadelphia; and Luke Emrich of New Life Church in West Bend, Wis.
By ron
September 30, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
AmVet—We had best hope he rules the churches out of order or we will have a nation more split than we have now.Any church would become a campaign headquarters for someone.
On the other hand,they campaign,they stump,they scream,they holler,they pay taxes.Might not be a bad deal.They’ll fight amoungst themselves for decades.Every sect is the true religion.In the end they all vote for Huckabee.The Democrats would hold the Presidency for so long they’d get sick of it.
Scalia will vote to uphold the churches.
By Captain Freedom
September 30, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
THE Captain returns after several days of enriching himself off the suffering of lesser individuals who have brought upon themselves the financial catastrophe of the day. Yes indeed, THE Captain’s chain of Pawn Service Retail Outlets is going gangbusters!!! Nothing like hard times to line THE Captain’s silken pockets. Sure, THE Captain feels a moment’s sadness when someone pawns her grandmother’s silver set for mere pennies on the dollar. But that is because THE Captain knows that He will only be able to treble or quadruple his investment, rather than accrue his accustomed septuplet ROI. But THE Captain says not to worry about Him, as He makes up the difference in VOLUME. The window monkeys at THE Captain’s outlets are working overtime (off the books, of course) to meet demand.
But what does THE Captain find upon arrival? Two most disturbing problems. First off, the entire rabble here is disregarding Jim’s urgings to avoid discussion of the economic disaster and presidential campaign, and instead focus on the happy news that another ne’er do well underclass Negro will get the hot seat in a few short days. Come on people!! Happy days are here again!!!
Second, for some reason Sister Dusty has gone all loopy again and is waving her rolling pin menacingly in THE Captain’s direction. This is inexplicable. THE Captain agrees fully with Dusty that this dark hued person should die at the merciful hands of our justice system, and without the interference of outside agitators and do-gooders looking for “facts” or “truth”. While THE Captain suspects that Dusty would forego the niceties and just mutter something about “kill the ni&&er and all the rest of them” as she gets dressed up for church service, He joins Dusty in cheering along this happy spectacle.
THE Captain applauds Jim for his deft sleight of hand today, cleverly distracting us from what some are calling the failed leadership of Bush/McCain in the economic arena. If anyone can be counted upon to ignore the obvious in deference to his betters, it is Our Jim.
By Vote for me, I'm pretty
September 30, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
“That’s why I say I, like every American I’m speaking with, we’re ill about this position that we have been put in where it is the taxpayers looking to bail out,” she explained. “But ultimately what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy. Helping the — it’s got to be all about job creation too, shoring up our economy and putting it back on the right track. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americans and trade — we’ve got to see trade as opportunity, not as competitive, scary thing, but one in five jobs being created in the trade sector today — we’ve got to look at that as more opportunity.”
By Peter
September 30, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
Hey Beth O
McLost….Cheating on his first wife with a rich coke head, then dumping her and marrying THE coke head……..cheating on second wife with a sexy lobbyist.
Called the “Song Bird Of Hanoi” by the Vietcong for giving so many American secrets during the time he was a POW.
Responsible for KILLING More Americans during the Vietnam WAR than probably any individual Vietcong soldier.
The Vietcong fortified the area’s American Jets were were bombing, and on the Supply routes, after your BOY SANG a Tune, and made 32 Video’s PUTTING DOWN AMERICA………..American Jets were then shoot down in greater numbers, both on the bombing runs, and the supply missions…..
McLost has voted to REJECT helping American Family find still Missing MIA’s from 2 wars.
Voted against almost all of the legislation that would help returning soldiers of WAR !
Vote for Benedict Arnold and Soccer Mom for Office !
By AmVet
September 30, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
ron, I agree let these churches do openly what they have been doing covertly for years - campaigning for their favorite quasi-theocrat in sheep’s clothing.
And then send them the IRS bill.
Imagine the benefit to our nation and our deficit.
At the risk of sounding like Mr. Biden, it would be patriotic!
But realistically, when it cam to “sharing” some of their filthy lucre, I’m reasonably sure even the hyper-fanatical would finally shut the h&ll up.
Their god is mammon…
By @@
September 30, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
What we have here Jim is a case where a homeless man (victim of society) was assaulted by an individual identified by one who would later recant, claiming he was a victim of police pressure, and all the time…….the individual who took responsibility to right the wrong is the forgotten victim, leaving behind a family of victims that mourn the loss of a loved one.
Maybe we’ve all forgotten the true meaning of the word “victim” because it’s applied too loosely for political gain?
Three more victims.
By Commander Guy
September 30, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Sure, Palin is kinda sorta hot in a weird and pervese nail the librarian in the stacks kind of fantasy way, though nowhere near as hot as the woman who has destroyed her political hopes, the lovely Tina Fey.
First off, brains really help. Sure, I’ve had plenty of fun with gals and guys who aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer, but the best hotstickysweaty comes when you’re down and dirty with someone who has the smarts. Palin is as dumb as a bag of wet mice.
Second, while I could see stuffing a gag in Sarah’s mouth before going to town, the idea of hearing that cheese grater voice in the middle of hotstickysweaty is just too horrible to contemplate. “ooh, yeah, y’know, put it in my natural gas pipeline. yeah, all the way, Mr Moose. drill baby drill. thanks, but thanks, ingla boogie shoogie hamana hamana” Jesus, I would wilt like Bob Dole.
Sorry to bring this whole image to mind, but why should I suffer alone?
By DebbieDoRight
September 30, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
To lighten things up a bit — here are some of my favorite “Bushisms”.
“The economy is growing, productivity is high, trade is up, people are working. It’s not as good as we’d like, but — and to the extent that we find weakness, we’ll move.” —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., July 15, 2008
“I want to tell you how proud I am to be the President of a nation that — in which there’s a lot of Philippine-Americans. They love America and they love their heritage. And I reminded the President that I am reminded of the great talent of the — of our Philippine-Americans when I eat dinner at the White House.” —George W. Bush, referring to White House chef Cristeta Comerford while meeting with Filipino President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo, Washington, D.C., June 24, 2008
I’m going to try to see if I can remember as much to make it sound like I’m smart on the subject.” —George W. Bush, answering a question about a possible flu pandemic, Cleveland, July 10, 2007
And one more, (my favorite of all)……
“There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.” —Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
Well, I thought it was funny!
By Shrugging Atlas
September 30, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Gary Tuchman | BIO AC360 Correspondent
When talking about what she says is her foreign policy experience, Sarah Palin told ABC news “…you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.” That quote made us want to go to that island.
So we did.
The island is called Little Diomede. It looks like a rock plopped into the Bering Strait. Only about 150 Alaskans live on the whole island. And just about two miles away; in full view of every single house on the island is the nation of Russia. Specifically, it is the Russian Island of Big Diomede which sits about 25 miles from the Russian Siberian mainland (which you can also see from the American island.) Most everybody on Little Diomede had relatives who lived on Big Diomede.
But decades ago, the Russian government sent them all to the mainland, and today, Big Diomede is limited to a Russian military presence. It’s also a full day in front of Little Diomede because it’s on the other side of the International Date Line. Little Diomede is fascinating. It looks like the moon would if you built a lunar settlement. It’s full of rocks, dirt, and craters. We were curious if Sarah Palin has ever visited this island. According to the natives, the answer is no.
As a matter of fact, no Alaska governor in the state’s nearly 50 year history has ever visited the remote outpost that still has little running water. We were curious what the Little Diomeders thought about Palin’s claim of foreign policy experience because of the proximity of Siberia. Interestingly, many of these Alaskans had no idea who Sarah Palin was! It turns out they have no TV on the island, and therefore, many don’t follow the news.
The island’s mayor has heard of her though. No American mayor resides in a city closer to Russia than Andrew Milligrock, and he says being two miles from Russia doesn’t give him any foreign policy expertise.
He does say she seems like an okay governor, but exclaims she should probably pay a visit to Little Diomede sometime. It may not help her foreign policy experience says the mayor, but would definitely help her domestic policy experience.
By Dusty
September 30, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
Well, the Captain is back so lock your doors everyone. Our Captain, the joker broker of PAWN, runs shops for honorable thievery. YES!! Why should I not believe him, huh huh?? This “pawn” for liberals has finally slipped and spoken the unvarnished, yellow painted, piscatorial (fishy) truth.
Then he gets to impartial truth, a bit of this mixed with a bit of that. How true that I would dispose of any copkiller regrdless of skin color, even one as jaundiced (read STD) as our Captain.
The Captain, under the influence of his confederates, is convinced that “there are no criminals”, a ditty that makes Captain feel ..well…justified. He weeps tears over buddies (former employees) who did not make it!!
But fear not about church, dear Captain, as AmVet is administering avid care of such institutions with his constitutional kerosene can. So now you can concentrate on the misfits of politics, Obama, Biden, Pelosi and that poor whispering Reid and fiddy duddy Frank. Do that while Presidential McCain and Sarah Captivator continue their merry way to the White House. As you said: Happy days are here again. AND MORE TO COME!! My stockbroker said so!!
By Not buying it
September 30, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
@ Vote for Me I’m Pretty: Raw quotes of anyone (Barack Obama included and Joe Biden especially) are an ugly thing. That’s why most of the “pretty quotes,” come from speeches. What else you got, genius?
By Not buying it
September 30, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
@ Vote for Me I’m Pretty: Raw quotes of anyone (Barack Obama included and Joe Biden especially) speaking off the cuff are an ugly thing. That’s why most of the “pretty quotes,” come from speeches. What else you got, genius?
By Bullzeye
September 30, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
In a presidential debate with Vice President Al Gore, George W. Bush says, “The Vice President believes in nation building. I would be very careful about using our troops as nation builders.” He added that the US military was already “overextended in too many places,” and ought to be used to “prevent war from happening in the first place.” In the same campaign, VP candidate Cheney says the US stopped short of toppling Saddam Hussein, in 1991, so as to avoid being “an imperialist power, willy-nilly moving into capitals in that part of the world, taking down governments.”
That one is funny too!!
By Sean Cavity
September 30, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
Beth O, I’m sure you thought you were right when you voted (twice) for Bush. In fact, you should write in his name for a 3rd term. That’s a fine leader that you supported… a real reflection of your judgement.
By Vote for me, I'm pretty
September 30, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
I’ve got executive experience. Of course my experience comes from being mayor of a little backwater hamlet that’s the Meth capital of Alaska and where I wanted to ban books. Not to mention governor of the bass-ackwards state of Alaska where we not only don’t need to tax our citizens, we cut ‘em fat checks every year because we awash in oil-related booty. And of course I was preggers for a good part of my incomplete term and I spent more time at home than in the state capital.
I’ve got foreign policy experience Since my remote state, where we don’t have to deal with issues like illegal immigration, borders Canada (those scruffy little foreigners). And I can see Russia on a clear day. Now don’t let the fact that I never had a passport until I became governor sway your opinion. Of the fact that as mayor of Wasila I didn’t really have any need for foreign policy acumen. I’ve got it, by golly.
I’m the education candidate How many others can boast having attended 5 schools in 6 years while earning a BA in Communications (or whatever it was). You know getting a BA from U of Idaho is kind of like being President of Law Review at Harvard…..except that its nothing like it. Also being runner up Miss Alaska is kind of like being a law professor at the University of Chicago except being a law professor requires brains while being Miss Alaska requires a nice rack and the ability to twirl a baton.
What you selling, genius?
By Dusty
September 30, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this
By golly, Shrugging Atlas@4:14 told us about the copycat correspondent who went to the last island chain in Alaska belonging to the USA.
He actually interviewed the mayor of said isalnd. Well, that’s NOTHING!! I interviewed a WHALE who lives between those touchy feely islands. (By cellphone, naturally.)
That whale, who is a Right whale of course, told me that Sarah knew her stuff and her husband was the best. He claimed those Ruskies come out with rusty harpoons and jab everything from babies to mommies. Sarah and her clan never interfere with the independence of whales and protect them. He said his absentee ballot is already in for Presidential McCain and Sarah Captivator. And he does not give a whip of the tail about Obama. Just a minnow trying to be a big fish. Ha!
I like indepth news from the scene. I had videos but some liberal snatched them. I think it was Bookman. He doesn’t like any whale of things going RIGHT.
By Captain Freedom
September 30, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
THE Captain thanks Dusty for her kind words of generous support. He is also tickled to hear that Dusty’s stock broker has such a rosy view of market prospects, and thus does He (THE Captain, that is) implore Sister Dusty to bet it all on the market, even going so far as to bring all of her easy-to-convert-to-cash items to THE Captain’s Pawn Service and Retail Emporium so as to have more cash to plunge into the coming bull market. Sister Dusty can always redeem her pawn at a future date when her ship comes in. THE Captain guarantees it!!!
THE Captain’s Pawn Service and Retail Emporium…trading yesterday’s memories for tomorrow’s pipedreams. Coming soon to a vacant retail space near you.
By getalife
September 30, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this
So, they have no trust, no accountability, no credibility, injected 630 billion into the market, the market rebounds 485 points and they are still trying to get 700 billion more.
Talk about lipstick on a pig.
Good luck selling that pig leaders.
By Ga Values
September 30, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
Captain Freedom
me thinks Dusty has the hots for you..please take her out & put a smile on her face. A little good Sxx might put her in a better mood.
By Commander Guy
September 30, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
It is high time that we allow the Godbotherers to preach whatever political views they like, no restrictions and no strings attached. At the same time, it is time for the US Government to get out of the business of subsidizing the Imaginary Sky Fairy worshippers, no matter what lunatic creed they subscribe to.
Everyone is free to believe whatever bafflegab they want. Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Spaghetti Monster, Marylin Manson, Dungeons and Dragons+…whatever your little fantasy, be my guest. But why should my tax dollars go to subsidize superstition and make believe? Let the market decide. If these purveyors of snake oil and afterlife woo can support themselves on the open market - free to include whatever political speech they desire - then more power to them. And let them pay taxes on their income and property holdings. It’s a cost of doing business.
If they cannot stand on their merits without taxpayer support, to hell with ‘em. (Metaphorically speaking of course, since the idea of hell is one of the more laughable pieces of fantasy in the whole shooting match).
By Devastator
September 30, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
(CNN) – Nearly 60 million Americans tuned in to the first presidential debate between Barack Obama and John McCain last Friday, but national polls released this week suggest the square-off did little to change the dynamics of the race.
The new polls are bad news for McCain, who with only five weeks until Election Day is quickly running out of opportunities to shake up the race for the White House.
In a new CNN poll of polls consisting of surveys conducted entirely after the first presidential debate, Obama holds a 5-point lead over McCain, 48-43 percent. That’s exactly where the race stood immediately before the two candidates kicked off the presidential debate season in Oxford, Mississippi, four days ago.
“The ruling on last Friday’s presidential debate is in, and it’s a split decision,” said CNN Senior Political Researcher Alan Silverleib. “The debate changed nothing. Obama’s supporters aren’t shifting to McCain, McCain’s supporters aren’t shifting to Obama, and undecided voters are still undecided.
But the poll numbers come even as surveys conducted by several media organizations immediately after the debate showed most viewers thought Obama had won. However the polls also showed the debate viewers appeared to be more Democratic than the overall population. (Related: CNN analysts grade McCain, Obama debate performances)
“Unfortunately for McCain, a continuation of the status quo favors Obama,” Silverleib also said. “The pressure is increasing on McCain to find some way to change the fundamental dynamics of this race. He can’t afford to walk away with a tie in the remaining debates.”
McCain and Obama next square off October 7 in a debate that features a town-hall format — a set up that McCain favors. VP candidates Sarah Palin and Joe Biden have their only debate on Thursday.
By Captain Freedom
September 30, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this
It is high time that we allow the Godbotherers to preach whatever political views they like, no restrictions and no strings attached. At the same time, it is time for the US Government to get out of the business of subsidizing the Imaginary Sky Fairy worshippers, no matter what lunatic creed they subscribe to.
Everyone is free to believe whatever bafflegab they want. Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Spaghetti Monster, Marylin Manson, Dungeons and Dragons…whatever your little fantasy, be my guest. But why should my tax dollars go to subsidize superstition and make believe? Let the market decide. If these purveyors of snake oil and afterlife woo can support themselves on the open market - free to include whatever political speech they desire - then more power to them. And let them pay taxes on their income and property holdings. It’s a cost of doing business.
If they cannot stand on their merits without taxpayer support, to hell with ‘em. (Metaphorically speaking of course, since the idea of hell is one of the more laughable pieces of fantasy in the whole shooting match).
By Captain Freedom
October 1, 2008 8:11 AM | Link to this
THE Captain objects in the strongest possible terms the namejacking that places the vitriolic apostasy of Commander Guy @ 5:21 under THE Captain’s good name. Given Dusty’s unhinged stalking of THE Captain of late, one can only draw the obvious conclusions.
Appalling. Who knew the Internest could be such a rough and tumble place? THE Captain is aghast.
By Churchill
October 1, 2008 8:15 AM | Link to this
Shooting From the Hip, With a Smile to Boot BY LIBBY COPELAND - WASHINGTON POST STAFF WRITER | WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 1, 2008 (Susan Walsh/AP)The heart of Sarah Palin’s appeal is —
Wait, did you see that? There! She did it again: wrinkled up her nose in a way that either looks like a sneer or is adorably reminiscent of Samantha from “Bewitched.” Depending on whom you talk to.
Next time you see a clip of the Republican vice presidential nominee, try this exercise. Mute your TV and just watch that face. How often do you see someone in political life so extravagantly expressive? The eyebrows go up, the shoulder leans in, the thumb jauntily gestures backward, the tongue actually fixes in the cheek. To mock Barack Obama, she licks her finger and holds it to the imaginary wind! And that smile, that nearly ever-present smile, which either indicates — oh, dear, here we go again — that she’s sarcastic and dismissive or that she’s letting you in on a very clever joke.
People love her so. People hate her so. At the heart of it is the delivery, a style of speaking we’ll see again in tomorrow night’s debate, a style that reaches past folksy and veers into the territory of — to hell with it, cue the charges of sexism — cute.
“She’s perky, she’s spunky,” says Republican speechwriter Landon Parvin, who has written for both Presidents Bush. “She has this quality — in a 1950s comedy, her father would call her ‘Button.’ ”
And?
“This allows her to get away with murder,” he says.
By Churchill
October 1, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this
Past Debates Show a Confident Palin, at Times Fluent but Often Vague By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE Published: September 30, 2008 Not since Dan Quayle took the stage in 1988 have debate expectations for a major party candidate been as low as they will be on Thursday for Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska.
A newcomer to the national scene, Ms. Palin has given little indication that she has been engaged in a serious way in the pressing national and international issues of the day.
But a review of a handful of her debate performances in the race for governor in 2006 shows a somewhat different persona from the one that has emerged since Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, named Ms. Palin as the vice-presidential nominee a month ago.
Ms. Palin, a former mayor who had become a whistle-blower about ethical misconduct in state government, held her own in those debates. (There were almost two dozen in the general election alone; she skipped some, and not all were recorded.)
She staked out a populist stance against oil companies and projected a fresh, down-to-earth face at a time when voters wanted change. That helped her soundly defeat Frank H. Murkowski, the unpopular Republican governor, in the primary and former Gov. Tony Knowles in the general election.
Her debating style was rarely confrontational, and she appeared confident. In contrast to today, when she seems unversed on several important issues, she demonstrated fluency on certain subjects, particularly oil and gas development.
But just as she does now, Ms. Palin often spoke in generalities and showed scant aptitude for developing arguments beyond a talking point or two. Her sentences were distinguished by their repetition of words, by the use of the phrase “here in Alaska” and for gaps. On paper, her sentences would have been difficult to diagram.
John Bitney, the policy director for her campaign for governor and the main person who helped prepare her for debates, said her repetition of words was “her way of running down the clock as her mind searches for where she wants to go.”
These tendencies could fuzz her meaning and lead her into linguistic cul-de-sacs. She often used less than her allotted time and ended her answers abruptly.
When questioned about the nuts and bolts of governing, Ms. Palin tended to avoid specifics and instead fell back on her core values: a broadly conservative philosophy and a can-do spirit.
“My attitude and my approaches towards dealing with the complexities of health care issues,” she said in an AARP debate in October 2006, “is a respectful and responsible approach, and it’s a positive approach. I don’t believe that the sky is falling here in Alaska.”
These patterns could help explain why the McCain campaign negotiated for less time for discussion in her debate Thursday with Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware than the presidential candidates had in their debate last week.
Ms. Palin was not always at her best when questioned by her opponents in the governor’s race.
In the AARP debate, Mr. Knowles and Andrew Halcro, an independent, double-teamed her to press her about how she would pay for health care.
In response to Mr. Knowles, she mentioned “certificates of need” and said they had been inflexible, “creating an environment where a lot of folks are lacking the receiving of their health care that is needed in some of the areas, especially in some of our larger markets.” She added, “The State of Alaska needs to be looking specifically at that inflexibility that exists today in order to fill some of the market needs that are out there in Alaska in our larger markets.”
She then added, “I can’t tell you how much that will reduce monetarily our health care costs, but competition makes everyone better, it makes us work harder, it does allow reduction in costs, so addressing that is going to be a priority.”
Mr. Knowles was nonplussed, saying that he did not understand her answer and that Ms. Palin had missed the point.
Mr. Halcro asked how she would pay for critical health care programs.
“Well, the point there, Andrew,” she said, “is that these are critical, and again it’s a matter of prioritizing and it’s a matter of government understanding its proper role in public safety, is health care, so it’s a matter of priorities.”
Mr. Halcro called her answer “political gibberish.”
But other times, she gave direct answers that appealed directly to her audience. The candidates were asked in a debate on Aug. 17, 2006, by a rural resident via video whether they would restore a longevity bonus for senior citizens, a payment intended to keep them from leaving the state.
“No,” Mr. Murkowski said gruffly. John Binkley, a third candidate, said yes. Ms. Palin’s response was filled with emotion.
“Yes, our precious, precious elders,” she said, looking into the camera. “For those who were prematurely lopped off, I am so sorry that that has happened to you.”
But generally, her voice carried surprisingly little affect.
“In tone, manner and sometimes even language, she treated every issue exactly the same,” Michael Carey, the former editorial page editor of The Anchorage Daily News, wrote in an essay about Ms. Palin. “She gave no suggestion that some issues are of higher priority than others. Her voice was cheerful, up-tempo, optimistic, never off key but always in the same key.”
Perhaps her strength in debating was coming across like an average person who understood the average person’s needs and would not be expected to have detailed policy prescriptions.
She also neutralized some of her conservative social views. She said intelligent design should be taught in schools — along with evolution. She said she favored the teaching of abstinence — along with the teaching of sex education. “Let the kids debate both sides,” she said.
She was not a particularly aggressive debater, and she rarely took an opportunity to challenge her opponents. But when pressed, she could be tough. In a roundtable discussion in October on the “Bob and Mark Show,” Mr. Halcro suggested that Ms. Palin had not attended enough debates.
“It’s been a year today that I’ve been on the campaign trail,” Ms. Palin responded, “attending many, many more forums, more debates, than either one of you, Tony and Andrew, because I had a primary opponent. You know, you got to have the balls to take it on in the early part of a campaign, and not just go right to the big show.”
By hrw
October 1, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this
If there is any facts that Mr. Davis killed this officer…he should be put to death. If there are doubts; and he can be retryed, then let the courts carry out the next hearing. Killing people should be the last thing we do and then find that person is not guilty. The officer know’s who shot him but cannot speak, that’s sad because if the person who shot him confess; yet, point the finger at another person and that person is not guilty yet, 19 years went by without some revisiting this case…this is not the justice that America should want.
By Billy
October 1, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
7 of the 9 witnesses recanted. 1 of the 2 that did not is the man Davis’ camp claims was the actual killer. Jim says Davis smiled as he shot MacPhail. How does he know? Which witness claimed to have seen this? “Similar” bullets? Not an exact match to be found? No DNA evidence?
Why are so many “pro-life” people so eager for blood in this case and others like it? It’s not as if he’ll be immediately released or anything. If the rule for conviction is “beyond a reasonable doubt”, then the rule for capital punishment should be “beyond a shadow of a doubt.”
Personally, if it had been my family member that was killed and 7 of 9 witnesses against him — witnesses without whom there would have been no case — recanted their testimony, I would want clemency just in case it was the wrong man. That’s what’s so disturbing here — Jim Wooten and others, by being so eager for Davis to die, are turning a blind eye to the not implausible possibility that he is innocent, and should he be innocent then his death means the guilty party is never brought to justice.
Of course, what should I expect from those who wanted Iraqi blood in retribution for 9/11?
By Trying to reason with the unreasonable
October 2, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
Jim Wooten - if it were you sitting on death row and you KNEW you were innocent of the crime that you were convicted for and the ONLY “credible” evidence against you that links you to ANY crime was witness testimony AND 7 of 9 witnesses recanted and the only two witnesses that did not recant had testimony that was shaky at best by thier own description because they were so far away….what was I saying again…oh yeah…let Jim Wooten die in Troy Davis’s stead…serves the same justice that Jim Wooten is calling for…sorry Jim but I couldn’t push theplungers on you knowing what I know just from reading the EXTENSIVE amount of NON-Agenda’ed material on the web about this case…I would hope that if there was any doubt that Jim Wooten commited the crime that he was sentenced to die for that someone would step in and say, keep him in jail until we can determine WITHOUT a doubt that he did it. Save the $18k for the guy/girl that admits that he killed someone and was caught with incriminating physical evidence that proves that he/she did it. Don’t get me wrong…I’m pro-death penalty but also Pro-true justice…not emotional, impatient, lynch mob justice…”quick, kill the guy, so these folks can move on in thier lives”…please, we’ve waited this long…we can wait another week or two…and if Troy Davis’s luck runs out and he is put to death and they find somehow that it was coles (which makes more sense given the facts and the character descriptions as well as recent testimony from witnesses “never heard from in court”), I would hope that you could find it in yourself to feel just a little sick that you would advocate killing someone because the paperwork and policies say your supposed to. Let me guess, you’re voting for Obama too, typical hypocrit…if it was your kid…who knows, maybe you’d eat your young too. God, Allah, Budda, the all mighty dollar (whomever you pray to) give you the guidance that you obviously lack…how old are you again? You’d think you would gain a teeny bit of wisdom over the years.
By I. Johnson
October 3, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
Jim, how do you know what the truth is? Where you there at the time? What facts did you uncover that will confirm that he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?