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Officials, learn from Atlanta’s pension-fund debacle
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Every elected official in Georgia should be convened at the Georgia World Congress Center, their cellphones confiscated and the doors locked. Ship food in. Bring in porta-potties.
When they are assembled, bring in the actuarial experts to explain what just happened in the city of Atlanta. AJC reporter Cameron McWhirter captured the essence of it in noting that Mayor Shirley Franklin and City Council “made key decisions to sweeten pensions for city workers that have put Atlanta in a budgetary bind that will take years to escape.”
Either they were asleep at the wheel, practicing political expediency or just plain ignorant of the consequences of their actions. Whatever the explanation, the administration that raised police pension benefits by 50 percent in 2002, and did the same for firefighters three years later while increasing pensions for general employees by 25 percent, has wrought disaster on the taxpayers of Atlanta.
The city’s budget is $570 million. By tinkering with the pension fund formulas in a way that would strike the uninformed as inconsequential, taxpayers’ debt increased by a full year’s budget. Look at your property tax bill for the year. Double it —- and that’s the cost to you of the formula changes adopted without notice in 2002 and 2005.
The mayor and council increased the portion of your pension-fund debt that is unfunded from $620.5 million to $1.2 billion without gaining anything of real value in return. Oh, for a brief spell the recipients will be grateful. Beyond that, however, there’s nothing taxpayers gained in terms of efficiencies or upgrades. It’s the same system, only with a more expensive work force.
When pay is inadequate, the best solution is to give workers cash in ways that don’t increase long-term debt. The absolute worst way is the way Atlanta did it. And, in fairness, it is not just Atlanta.
Politicians are notoriously short-sighted. If it’s possible to placate complaining employees by giving them something of value to quiet them that doesn’t have to be paid for by raising taxes during this four-year cycle, politicians will jump at it every time. In that sense, elected officials are the absolute worst decision-makers on compensation issues, especially those related to pensions.
Employees own them. They elect their bosses. They elect the folks who determine how much of somebody else’s money —- somebody unknown and unseen —- should be given over to somebody they know, often somebody organized to turn out the vote.
It’s a horrible system. When money’s flush, they go for money. When it’s not, they go for benefit increases that will come due on some other politician’s watch. Horrible, irresponsible, unfixable system as it’s now structured.
There is a solution, though.
Change the system. It cannot be fixed. Atlanta tried, passing an ordinance in 1978 to require its pension funds to be fully funded by 2018. City Council has now pushed that back to 2024 and will most likely do it again.
The Georgia General Assembly, with a similar problem, closed one system and started a new one fresh. For about a decade, it stayed relatively pure. Then, as new employees started thinking about retirement, the corruptions started. It can’t be fixed. Short-sighted politicians and those who have no clue —- always the majority among elected officials —- perform exactly as the mayor and council of Atlanta did. The solution is to close every public defined-benefit pension plan to new employees. Pay all promises to existing workers, of course. But then give all new workers defined-contribution plans of the 401(k) variety. Workers own the plans. When they leave, they take the money. At the end of every day, employer and employee are settled, fair and square. All games are in the open. All incentive to favor small groups of employees is largely eliminated. Politicians know, and pay, the full cost when making decisions.
Every city and county in Georgia, as well as the state, is a potential Atlanta. Change the system.
Open the doors.
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DEL.ICIO.US

Comments
By Just Nasty and Mean
July 29, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this
G’Mornin Jim, et al,
The City of Atlanta is the same cesspool of cronyism, nepotism, and inefficiency that corrupts all local government entities from Lithonia, Clayton County, DeKalb, Grady, MARTA—you name it—it is a screwed-up mess. Just try naming anything that works in these case studies in mediocrity and incompetence?
We all know what the problem is. There is a common denominator. Political Correctness prevents us from even saying it, much less fixing it.
Mrs Godzilla
Please don’t waste everybody’s time, today, with your cut/paste, regurgitated tripe from the Obama daily talking points. The subject Jim presents has nothing to do with him or the presidential election, so we don’t need your incessant daily off-subject diatribes on the messiah.
By TrueDat
July 29, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this
You must simply NOT wright about John Mccain. You must simply NOT!!
Good topic today jim, and way to tie it in with the forecasted 482 billion dollar federal deficit the current admin is leaving the next admin with (non-military). CEO president indeed, and a success at that!! This article would have been a great tie-in to that, but leave it to you to ignore the elephant in the room! Lets talk about Obama’s windsor knot and what that says to the nation.
On to the topic…here is where supply and demand come into effect..the pension for police was to retain officers to perform an essential function. After 911 law enforcement grew expedentially (esp state and federal level) after 3 years on, young atlanta officers have a lot of options,feds and new cities like sandy springs, johns creek, etc. These places offer better training, morale, pay, etc.etc. over the politicaly driven atlanta dept, in a city that’s going bankrupt. Atlanta needs to offer what it can to retain officers, because people still leave in droves.
that being said, to raise general city employees pension, just to be “fair” is the problem. People are looking for work, if someone leaves the city accounting dept, i’m sure a qualified person can be hired without causing too much stress on the system.
Maybe its not “fair” but life isn’t meant to be fair, and when govt tries to make it fair it does more damage than good.
By Copyleft
July 29, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this
Someone please contact Jim Wooten and make sure he’s okay. Today’s column does NOT consist of whining about Obama! What happened? Did he call in sick and get an office-flunky to compose this column in his place?
Or worse yet, is Wooten’s e-mail down? Did he not receive today’s Obama-bashing talking points? Horrors! I just hope he’s okay without der Fuhrer… I mean, Der Bushies to guide his hand today.
That’s gotta be disconcerting, to be suddenly cut loose and forced to think for himself… so different from his usual cozy environment of bleating whatever the Heritage Foundation wants distributed.
Get well soon, Jim!
By Maniac is accurate
July 29, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this
Meat and potatos topic today. Yaaaawn. For real excitement check out the photo gallery from the Big Mac 40th anniversary bash. Kim Kardashian makes quite an impression. Woof.
By Ron
July 29, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this
I believe if one were to research the State's pension plan he will find that several changes have been made since the early 70s with all of them reducing the states responsibility to a retiree and increasing the responsibility of the employee in saving. While not perfect it is done with an professional actuaries and not simply political.By getalife "whiners"
July 29, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this
Yeah Kim is fine but high maintenance. Baby got back.
I like the drunk sister.
By AJC/DNC Management
July 29, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this
Look at the depraved pinko media working in tandem with the POS al Qaeda terrorists:
The attacks also underscored that despite an overall drop in violence, the raw passions and anger fed by Iraq’s deep ethnic, regional and sectarian divides can still instantly ignite, blah, blah, blah.-Urinal/POS
Funny how I don’t remember all the editorializing in the news accounts of the India bombings last week that killed just as many people.
Why isn’t India, Pakistan, Britain or the United States, all sufferers of Islamic terror, countries that are riven with deep ethnic, regional and sectarian divides?
There is only one reason for these attacks, it is 7th century religious extremism, and the candy as-ses at the Urinal are too much a bunch of mealy little pus-sies to call the killers on it.
It’s too easy for these yellow bellied scum to blame the good people of Iraq.
~~~~~
You should read this whole article to get the sense that these pinkos get angry when one of theirs gets whacked by the good guys:
Bush hails partnership with Pakistan’s new leaders- Among those believed to have been killed in the attack, evidently carried out by a pilotless aircraft operated by the CIA, was an Egyptian identified as a senior Qaida trainer and weapons expert, according to residents and officials in the area, as well as U.S. officials. The operative, identified as Midhat Mursi al-Sayid Umar, also known as Abu Khabab al-Masri, appears on the State Department’s list of 37 most-wanted terrorists, with a reward of $5 million for his capture. He is said to be the man who designed the explosives that Richard C. Reid, the so-called shoe bomber, hid in his sneakers during a failed attempt to blow up an airliner on a flight from Paris to Miami in 2001.
Bushie is going to defeat the terrorists before the libs have a chance to surrender to them.
Hahahahahahahahahaha, POS.
~~~~~
Look at these sicko liberals taking an attack on religion in general and making themselves the victims:
Police: Man targeted liberal church-Urinal/PMS
Really?
“He had his own sense of belief about religion, that’s the impression I got of him,” said neighbor Karen Massey. “We were talking one day when my daughter graduated from Bible college, and I told him I was a Christian, then he almost turned angry.
“He seemed to get angry at that.”
According to Massey, Adkisson talked frequently about his parents who “made him go to church all his life … he was forced to do that.”
Sick, AJC, sick.
~~~~~
This should be pretty easy to understand:
“President Bush this morning accepted the recommendation of the Secretary of the Army to approve a sentence of death for Army Private Ronald A. Gray, affirming the sentence that resulted from a general court martial for multiple charges of murder and rape committed while serving as a member of the Armed Services. While approving a sentence of death for a member of our Armed Services is a serious and difficult decision for a Commander-in-Chief, the President believes the facts of this case leave no doubt that the sentence is just and warranted. Private Gray was convicted of committing brutal crimes, including two murders, an attempted murder, and three rapes. The victims included a civilian and two members of the Army. Because additional legal challenges are expected in this case, we will decline to comment further. The President’s thoughts and prayers are with the victims of these heinous crimes and their families and all others affected.”
Now go look at the picture of Bush that Politico.com chose to print along with the story.
There is an inbred sickness in the American media these days, they have their ideas to what is right and what is wrong and we have ours.
Two totally different ideas.
When a man has the courage to do the right thing, and in this case death is the right thing, he does not need to be portrayed as a monster by an unaccountable pack of scumbags, the lowest form of life, filthy mofos who would stand on the side of murderers and rapists.
Does this not sum up the last 5 years of our history, Bush doing the right thing in defeating the Neanderthal terrorists of the Middle East, while the pinko media whined and moaned the whole time?
Who in their right mind can argue with the fact that we took the fight TO the same POS that killed 3000 of our innocent countrymen?
The same degenerates that go on crying jags because a murderer and rapist is getting what he full well deserves?
~~~~~
Peter Hart, a Democratic pollster, said the statistics should serve as a reminder of the particular obstacles that Obama faces.
“Here’s a 46-year-old African-American with a narrative that is very unusual and that few other Americans can relate to,” he said. “Add to the fact that he has had four years in the United States Senate and very little international experience. That’s a large leap for the American public to make.”
Notice how a dimwitocrat cannot even be honest with themselves?
Has four years passed since Lord high Dimwit was elected to the Senate?
Uh, no.
Now let’s factor in that he has spent the last two years running for the presidency.
A lib’s life is nothing but a lie, they lie to themselves about the environment, about the economy, about the war.
And about their candidate.
Will you be living the lie with them?
P.S. There is a reason why Lord High Dimwit cannot get pass 50% in the polls: most Americans are not stupid enough to live the lie.
Enjoy your orgy.
~~~~~
The fact that people turned out in Berlin to hear Obama sing a couple of choruses of “We Are the World” only demonstrates that Europeans, who have long since lost the taste both for liberty and for hard work, have a lot of time on their hands and are not very discriminating in the entertainment they choose. For a long time it has been no secret that Obama and his brand of socialist, pacifist politics have been very popular in Old Europe. Perhaps it’s time we traded Obama to the EU for two croissants and a used Volvo. (It would be one of those trades that benefit both teams. Europe would get a guy they adore, and we would get something of value.)
~~~~~
President Bush’s recent decision to lift the longstanding executive ban on offshore drilling implies that we, as a nation, are more concerned with prices at the pump than with the health of our coastal economy and environment. Apparently we’ve forgotten how critical these areas are to our state, national and global economies.-Urinal/PMS
You know what is funny, where are all the pictures and evidence that off shore drilling “harms the environment?”
It should be easy to show us, shouldn’t it?
~~~~~
Pelosi: ‘I’m trying to save the planet’
Aren’t we all so lucky?
~~~~~
The only way a pinko liberal can increase their numbers in Congress is by electing wingnuts, and it is killing them to do it:
At the moment, the Blue Dog contingent is dominant in the Democratic caucus and drives much of what the caucus does. The more Blue Dogs there are in the Democratic caucus, the more dominant they will be. Changing the face of Congress requires, first and foremost, that the face of the Democratic caucus change, that its strategic incentive scheme be altered. Until progressives make Democratic leaders pay a price for their allegiance to the right’s agenda — the only price that politicians recognize: having their power diminished and jeopardized — then none of this will change. It will only continue to worsen.
What other choice do you sickos have?
“Hope” that America becomes a bunch of perverts like you are?
Your ideology and agenda are cultural rot and depravity, that is exactly why you cannot get elected running on it, look at Lord High Dimwit running from your sickness just as fast as he can.
You should be embarrassed.
By Unseat Shirley Franklin Now
July 29, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this
Why can’t we have a vote to unseat Shirley Franklin before she can do any more damage to the city?
By getalife "whiners"
July 29, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this
Stay out of churches today Andy.
Geez.
By Mrs. Godzilla
July 29, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this
Great day to be an American ain’t it!
Blackwater received millions in small business contracts — but it’s not a small business.
Bush forced Maliki to back down on withdrawal in 2006.
In January 2007, the Washington Post reported that Bush also rejected a Maliki proposal for U.S. troops to “withdraw to the outskirts of Baghdad and let Iraqis take over security in the strife-torn capital.”
Gates: War With Iran ‘Would Be Disasterous,’ It’s ‘The Last Thing We Need
Forgetting His Vote To Allow Waterboarding, McCain Says ‘We Could Never Torture Anyone
Earlier this month, conservative pundit Larry Kudlow caused a stir when he reported that a “senior McCain official” told him that McCain was off cap-and-trade, his signature greenhouse gas reduction plan. The McCain campaign quickly responded that the notion the Senator may be backing off cap-and-trade is “totally false.” But Kudlow may have been right after all. Last Friday, McCain adviser Steve Forbes told Glenn Beck that McCain’s environmental plan is not going to “get very far” under McCain and will be abandoned as “people start to examine the details.”
EPA Gags Staff: ‘Do Not Respond To Questions’
Senate Conservatives Vote Against Low-Income Energy Assistance, Push Oil Drilling Myth
John McCain flip flops on taxes, feels heat from the right
Obama will meet with Pakistani Prime Minister Gilani tomorrow in DC, the campaign confirms. It will be a closed meeting.
Club For Growth: McCain’s Social Security Position Is “Shocking”
McCain Aide Called US Attorney Scandal “Nonsense And Politics”
McCain Adviser: McCain’s Cap-And-Trade Plan Won’t Get Far
Congressional negotiators agreed Monday to a ban on a family of toxins found in children’s products, handing a major victory to parents and health experts who have been clamoring for the government to remove harmful chemicals from toys…..White House spokesman Tony Fratto said that President Bush opposes the ban
more later
By Dusty
July 29, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this
Well, it certainly seems we have come a long way. In the old stories, a guy leaves the company after 40 years of hard work with a nice gold watch in his hand. That was all. Now he leaves the company (government) with a mortgage on the company’s headquarters (or something).
What in the world happened? Nasty & Mean says it is political correctness. I’m not sure about that unless you mean we hire incompetents at expert pay for PC reasons.
I think it is MORE political than that. As Jim clearly points out, every generation of politicians has sweeetened the pot for workers because they are voters. That also allowed politicians to sweeten their OWN pot which is a pretty big one.
I guess we need to start over. Every non elected worker has to reapply for his job at ordinary wages. Boards will be changed every two months. If the deficient has increased, wages will decrease from the boss to the floorsweeper. Any shortage of workers will have temporary elder volunteers filling in.
As to the ELECTED workers, their salary will be posted BEFORE the election with a no change clause. So we get incompetents??We have them anyway in a debt filled complex.
Well, I can dream, can’t I??? But huge debt is a nightmare.
By Taxpayer
July 29, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
Bush slept through all his economics classes and McCain was his teacher. But, his daddy was picking up the bills so no one cared. Now, his daddy is not picking up the bill — we are.
By Copyleft
July 29, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
Hey, I think we’ve found McCain’s ideal running mate!
http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2008/07/28/tenn.church.shooting-MUG.jpg
We know he’s “militant,” and his violent hatred of gays gives him conservative cred! A perfect choice!
By getalife "whiners"
July 29, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
“Adkisson told Still that since “he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement that he would then target those that had voted them in to office.”
Adkisson told officers he left the house unlocked for them because “he expected to be killed during the assault.”
Inside the house, officers found “Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder” by radio talk show host Michael Savage, “Let Freedom Ring” by talk show host Sean Hannity, and “The O’Reilly Factor,” by television talk show host Bill O’Reilly.
The shotgun-wielding suspect in Sunday’s mass shooting at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church was motivated by a hatred of “the liberal movement,” and he planned to shoot until police shot him, Knoxville Police Chief Sterling P. Owen IV said this morning.”
You are pathetic Andy.
By MrLiberty
July 29, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
Don’t worry, the idiots that run this town are doing the same thing as every other moron-filled city council in america. The national collapse of the pension funds will be the next big story. Pandering to a small, vocal bunch of do-nothings in local government is what our elected officials do best. All over this country they have allowed union bosses and other employee representatives to convince them that these “small” increases in salary and benefits will easily be covered by the extra money they will get from the “growing economy.” What, you thought the president and congress were the only ones stupid enough to fall for that crap?
What really gets me is the these employees already get paid courtesy of the money stolen from my income and property. All of the services they perfom could be done privately for less, but here is the way it is. When a business offers a pension plan (and most do not anymore), there are strick rules of funding, etc.. State and local governments don’t have to follow these rules. When a business considers a pension, it realizes that its performance is the only thing that will pay for that pension plan. For a government plan there is no profit or loss so it is impossible to ever tell how things will be in the future. There is just the promise that taxes and fees will be going up to make it all come out ok.
Millions in this country have only a 410(K) and IRA option available to them for retirement planning. Yes, there might be safer approaches, but forcing people to do certain things through tax policy is the American way. It is called social engineering - it is despicable. When the value of the dollar and the value of the stocks in our retirement accounts goes way down, and it is poised to do that, you can count on the govt. pensions keeping their value. Why wouldn’t they? The poor slobs doing all the work, paying all the taxes, etc. will be there to pick up the slack as we always are.
Personally I hope the employeee pension funds all go bankrupt. It would serve them all right for the decades of stealing that has funded their lives and their careeers.
By Bosch
July 29, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this
Dusty,
A while ago, people didn’t retire with a simple gold watch. They also received retirement benefits that they have been saving for all their lives to supplement Social Security and Medicare (or at least their life in the job).
Now, people save all their lives and it doesn’t meet the cost of living, or the company squanders it and they get nothing.
You’ve said that one (or more) of your children work for AT&T (or BellSouth) - God help them when they retire - if they get anything they’ll be doing good.
By Copyleft
July 29, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
Dusty’s more deluded than usual. Even Wooten isn’t pretending the word “pension” never existed, even though corporations are doing their best to claim otherwise.
By Bosch
July 29, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this
Mr. Liberty,
Those pension plans are very good for a couple of people in the corporation - the CEO and CFO usually. They make the millions and leave the minions out in the cold.
But hey, shouldn’t the minions be GRATEFUL the CEO allows them to work? /sarc
By 6foot6
July 29, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
As a former COA (City of Atlanta) employee I will admit that the pension situation the city is currently facing is very serious, and it is very sad that the mistakes of the current and past administrations will be paid for by futures ones. But at the same time when I left the COA after being employed with them for 4 years I must say that when I cashed in my pension it was more than some people make in a year, and that enabled me to start my own business as well as a non-profit that will mirror almost exactly what I did at the city. So you guys hate it, but I thank god for the greedy SOB’s that came long before my time that made that possible, its not like I had that in mind when I applied for the COA fresh out of college, I didn’t realize how much money was going into my 401K and pension until about 2 years of employment with them. When I got “let go” I was actually excited because I knew that with my pension money I could leverage it to make my dreams come true, which was to work for myself, well before my goal of doing so before my 30th birthday. With that said yes the city of Atlanta is in quite a quandary, but the real gorilla in the room is the position that George W has put the country in for the future, he has sold the country out from under us and all you can point out Jim is the shortcomings of a few idiots past and present that work downtown at City Hall. Jim thinks he is quite the slickster by trying to subliminally tie in what is going on down at City Hall with what he thinks will happen if Barak Obama gets elected, good job Jim, it looks like we both had the same psych professor in college!!!! But I digress, the stupid lambs of the right will believe what is most comfortable to them, and I could care less what they think because I’m too self engrossed in trying to be rich. Plus after 8 years of Bush I find it laughable that you people are that stupid to not see the writing on the wall. Iraq was merely a distraction created by Bush and his cronies to hide what has really being going on— the death of the American Empire. We are well on our way to being a third world country, its just sad you all cant see it. 2012 will be the year when you wake up, See you then, hope you rednecks are stocking up on ammo cuz were all going to need it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Dusty
July 29, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
Copyleft,
I am beginning to believe that your rabies shots are not working. What’s with the attack on Jim Wooten? If you disagree with him, tell us why.
This is an opinion blog. Not a back fence for you to write slurs. Give it up!! And take Mrs. Godzie with you. She thinks orginal thought is a reprint line from headquarters.
Todays topic is OFFICIALS,LEARN FROM ATLANTA’S PENSION-FUND DEBACLE.There! Got it?? (Are you a Cyclon?? Attention, PAUL!)
By MrLiberty
July 29, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
Bosch,
If you are trying to imply that a government job is in some way superior to a job in private enterprise you will have to come up with a better argument than you have. Every government job is based on providing a service possibly nobody wants and funding it by stealing money from the citizens under your jurisdiction. Whether a govt. pension is more secure than a private one, at least the private company earned its money. Yes, and where the govt. is hwlping them or giving them a contract, that is just as wtong.
In a truly FREE labor and employment market, it is unlikely that there would be the pension fraud and other shenanigans you speak of, as jobs would likely be more plentiful and retirement would likely be the responsibility of the employee.
By Dusty
July 29, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
Bosch,@10:15
Don’t worry about my children. They know how to work and they know how to save. (except the youngest who just bought ANOTHER motorcycle! But the huge shiny red monster is already paid for from his resources!)
by the way, there is a large plant on the other side of Atlanta with a big BOSCH sign on it. Wonder how the wages and pensions are there?
By Mrs. Godzilla
July 29, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
Dusty
Good Morning dear!
Let me help you out….
{{if we are required to be “on topic”… did you miss this:
By AJC/DNC Management
July 29, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this
Look at the depraved pinko media working in tandem with the POS al Qaeda terrorists:}}
Wouldn’t it be nice if you could spread your concern over the entire political spectrum?
It’s called fair and balanced. (have we heard that somewhere before?)
You can do it!
You have potential!
By MrLiberty
July 29, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
Bosch,
If you are trying to imply that a government job is in some way superior to a job in private enterprise you will have to come up with a better argument than you have. Every government job is based on providing a service possibly nobody wants and funding it by stealing money from the citizens under your jurisdiction. Whether a govt. pension is more secure than a private one, at least the private company earned its money. Yes, and where the govt. is hwlping them or giving them a contract, that is just as wtong.
In a truly FREE labor and employment market, it is unlikely that there would be the pension fraud and other shenanigans you speak of, as jobs would likely be more plentiful and retirement would likely be the responsibility of the employee.
By Copyleft
July 29, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
Every government job is based on providing a service possibly nobody wants and funding it by stealing money from the citizens under your jurisdiction.
And I’m sure our soldiers, police, and judges appreciate how much resent their work. I assume you categorically reject those services?
By Atlanta1
July 29, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
i dont feel sorry for the people in Atlanta one bit! If you are going to elect someone just because they are a certain race and not because they are qualified then you get what you deserve! I’m most certain that if the most qualified candidate for mayor were white that person would lose.
By Get Real
July 29, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
Just Nasty and Mean, please tell us what the obvious reason is. What is the common denominator? Since this same thing is happening at the Capital, LA, New York, Chicago all have issues with the how their pensions are performing.
Or it could be that back in the 90s the Clinton Administration (Democrat) provided more Federal dollars for municipalities to hire more police officers and firefighters. This allowed local cities to hire more cops and pay them better as well. Then when Bush (Republican) came into office, he cut funding for all these programs now that money is needed more than ever to provide Homeland Security tasks here.
Cities AND States had to do something to retain more of the officers they spent money training. This is something that Wooten likes to ignore. If you say coworkers pensions sweetened, I’m sure you would be saying ‘what about me’ too. Should the situation have been handled better? yes. Can you just blame ‘political correctness’, since the Georgia Highway Patrol is encountering the same problem in retaining its officers?
Bush Republicans Cut Law Enforcement Funding, Crime Rate Increases at the Fastest Rate in Fifteen Years
July 10, 2006
In 1994, faced with a national crime crisis, Congress passed the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act (Crime Bill), which provided federal funds to allow state and local law enforcement to hire additional police officers. The results were dramatic: between 1994 and 2001, violent crime dropped by 29 percent, the most sustained decline in 40 years.
Since 2001, however, the President and the Republican-controlled Congress have cut more than $2 billion in funding for state and local law enforcement. And the results have been equally dramatic: violent crime is on the rise again. In 2005, violent crime increased at the fastest rate in fifteen years. These statistics foreshadow what could be a troubling trend, a backsliding into the “bad old days” of the 1980s and early 1990s when we were losing the war on crime.
COPS program leads to a reduction in violent crime. Fifteen years ago, the United States was in the midst of a violent crime wave. Over the previous 25 years, violent crime had already increased by 139 percent, and experts were making dire predictions about the future. But then something changed: from 1994 through 2000, federal and local government responded with tough, smart programs that made a difference.
In 1994, Congress passed the Crime Bill, which created the Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) program. This program, administered through the Department of Justice (DOJ), revolutionized state and local law enforcement, enabling police officials to deploy new crime-fighting technologies, develop innovative policing methods, and hire new officers. COPS placed nearly 100,000 officers on the street in more than 13,000 communities across the country.
In October 2005, Congress’s independent watchdog, the Government Accountability Office (GAO), credited COPS with reducing crime. GAO found that for every dollar spent in COPS hiring per resident, crime fell by almost 30 incidents per 100,000 residents.
Republicans have slashed funding for necessary state and local law enforcement programs. Despite the success of COPS, President Bush attempted to gut funding for its hiring program beginning with his first budget proposal. In 1997 and 1998, approximately $1.2 billion dollars were spent each year by the federal government to hire new police officers under COPS. After steady decreases over the last five years, that number has fallen to $0.
The Bush Administration and the Republican-controlled Congress did not stop there, reducing funding for other DOJ programs, including the Byrne Memorial State and Local Law Enforcement Assistance grant program (Byrne) and the Local Law Enforcement Block Grant Program (LLEBG). As soon as these programs were consolidated into the new Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Grant program (JAG), the President proposed more cuts to the program of $123 million, and by 2006, the Congress had cut the program by over $300 million. For 2007, the second year in a row, the Administration has proposed eliminating JAG altogether.
Following President Bush’s lead, and despite resistance from Democrats, Congress has retreated from the war on crime, cutting overall funding for DOJ programs by 50 percent since 2001.
The Bush Administration turns its back on state and local law enforcement. The President’s 2007 budget proposal recommends a staggering $1.1 billion in cuts to state and local law enforcement programs, with no monies allocated for hiring new officers. If passed, the budget would:
cut $370 million (or seventy eight percent) from the COPS program and eliminate funding for officer hiring;
eliminate funding for JAG, which last year received over $400 million;
eliminate funding for the Law Enforcement Terrorism Protection Program, administered by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), which last year received $400 million to make grants to local law enforcement agencies to assist in homeland security-related planning, organization, training, exercises, and equipment;
eliminate funding for the Juvenile Accountability Block Grant program, which last year received $50 million to promote greater accountability in the juvenile justice system;
eliminate funding for the State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP), which last year received $399 million to assist state and local governments with the costs of jailing illegal immigrants who have committed crimes not related to their immigration status;
cut $15 million from the Emergency Management and Performance grants, the federal government’s main grant program for state and local emergency management activities;
cut $20 million from the High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area (HIDTA) program, which enhances and coordinates drug control efforts among local, State, and Federal law enforcement agencies; and
cut $34 million (nine percent) from the Office of Violence Against Women budget, which provides national leadership on issues related to domestic violence, sexual assault, and stalking by providing grants to help victims with the protection and services they need.
The 2007 budget is further evidence that state and local law enforcement is not a priority for the Bush Administration.
By Corey
July 29, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
Just Nasty And Mean, will political correctness keep you from saying what is wrong with the DOT, and the deficit that the state will soon present us with? What about the federal deficit? The Iraqi debacle? Brownie, you’re doing a heck of a job? I’m waiting. I thought so. You are a garden variety racist looking for any excuse to unleash.
By Paul
July 29, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
Mr. Liberty 10:34
[[In a truly FREE labor and employment market]]
As that’s impossible, anything based on that is speculation. While one may wish for that, it would just plain never happen.
Dusty
No, I’m not a Cylon. Leastwise, I don’t think so -
The other issue that ties into this is - to be consistent in criticism, one should view the Fed’s accounting (or lack thereof) for the future liabilities of Social Security and Medicare.
That’ll scare your socks off.
Saw a news clip last night about a Rep Congressman, a medical doctor, from OK whose nickname is “Dr. No.” He’s voted against all sorts of bills - including funding for the war (a Rep from OK - he’s doing better than most Democrats on that) because Congress refuses to identify how to pay for it. Says “my constituents have a budget. When they want to do something new or when costs rise, they give up something. They don’t leave it to their grandkids to pay for.”
As far as which candidate will hose you - here’s the latest column by Scott Burns, financial advisor:
(there are a couple of great lines - “Do you really believe either candidate will be able to cut taxes for 97 percent of all households by increasing taxes on the other 3 percent?” and “The political definition of wealth is notoriously flexible. And surprisingly low. After the election, Congress may determine that you are “wealthy” if you are in, say, the top 25 percent of income earners—- $64,700 or a similar level. Remember, these are the folks who decided that you should pay taxes on your Social Security benefits if your income exceeded $32,000 for a couple.”
Which is why Election Day is also BOHICA day.
Link: Which Candidate Will Hose Your Finances?
Later -
By Dusty
July 29, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
Did Mrs. Godzie say something?
I think she did.
Err what was it?
She’s quoting someone else? Oh…OK..
By state retiree II
July 29, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
Thank you Governor Perdue for changing the leadership at Georgia Employees Retirement System. M. Nefh was the worst thing that has happened to ERS in decades. Under his watch ERS members have SUFFERED greatly! I guess he will just move on and make another group of retirees miserable for a few years. Now…how about telling the new lady you put in charge to DO HER JOB and bring the ERS back to being 100% funded from the drop off we have had while Nefh was asleep at the wheel. TRS and you other state retirees had better pay attention also.
By BFKaJ
July 29, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
Good morning all. I posted my initial argument on a different page, copied here. Private employers have effectively abolished defined benefit retirement plans – “pensions” – substituting defined contribution plans in some cases, and 401Ks in many more. We understand that elected “managers” don’t normally have the economic skills necessary to survive in a competitive market, so the public failure to seize the same methods as the private economy is unsurprising. Dr. Sowell today offers a couple of arguments, in a slightly differing context, that exactly describe the learning deficit that infects Atlanta leadership:
“What is amazing this year is how many people have bought the fundamentally childish notion that, if you don’t like the way things are going, the answer is to write a blank check for generic “change,” empowering someone chosen not on the basis of any track record but on the basis of his skill with words.”
“Although most of the mainstream media are still swooning over Barack Obama, a few critics are calling the things he advocates “naive.” But that assumes that he is trying to solve the country’s problems. If he is trying to solve his own problem of getting elected, then he is telling the voters just what they want to hear. That is not naive but shrewd and cynical.”
Dear Get Real @ 10:44, thanks, good news. I had begun to believe the Republicans did not do anything right when they ran Congress. Looks like they effectively abolished some wasteful Federal spending on local issues. (Really, why should people in Valdosta be paying for Atlanta’s crime problems?) I suspect you would agree with me, that democrats are likely to restore the wasteful spending – it’s in their genes.
By Fix-It
July 29, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
It is funny that some people just can’t stay on target. This is a blog about the misuse of funds in Atlanta, so can the people who insist on idol worship, and Bush bashing please blog someplace else. To fix the Atlanta issues it is really easy; force the politicians to BALANCE THE CHECK BOOK. We all have to do it, why do politicians feel they do not have to?
By Ga Values
July 29, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
Jim, thank you so much for writing some thing different & meaningful. Shirley is a joke but even I could look good against the past mayors of Atlanta. NPR just announced that the price of houses dropped by 15% last month. When Atlanta cuts the valuation of houses they are going to have a REAL problem meeting payroll. Time to lay off all those retarted Uncles & cousins. Again thanks for a real colume, guess we’ll be back to Democrat bashing tomorrow. When are you going to get on the case of the big spending, big government LIBERALS like our 2 Senators??
By MrLiberty
July 29, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
Our founding fathers rejected the concept of a standing army as being the greatest threat to the republic there could be. Their immediate availability to the “king” whenever he wishes to wage war has been shown time and time again to be a bad thing. Iraq is just another example.
The Supremem Court has already made it clear that the police do not have a responsibility to protect any individual in society. They spend their time enforcing vice laws where there are no victims rather than goind after real criminals. They falcify evidence and then kill innocent black women due to the failed war on drugs. Even though a police force is needed in society, there are plenty of other private proposals that have been put forth that would if nothing else significantly increase their accountability to the citizens. Now they just work as a tool of the government (despite who pays them).
And yes, even judges positions could be privatized. Now they work for the government, not the citizens (yes, there is a difference). They do everything possible to assure that the outcome of a case benefits the “system”, not justice. For instance, are you aware that every juror has the right under common law and other precidents to judge the law, and not just the evidence in a case? The judge will now tell you that you must swear that you will only judge the evidence, but less than 40 years ago all juries were counciled in their true and complete rights. Of course the legislators don’t want the citizens to have power over them, but that is what should happen. This nullification right helped end prohibition, slavery, and other mistakes our legislators have made. It could be doing the same thing today if folks only knew.
Bottom line. Whatever services “need” to happen can be performed by the free market (yes, charity groups too). User fees and the like would pay for the costs, and there would be no need to steal from everyone just to create a big pile of cash to be freely distributed for political and other reasons. That is just not the american way.
By cb
July 29, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
6foot6, you just completely validated Wooten’s column/argument.
By george hussein washington
July 29, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
ha ha ha, woodenhead is a typical spoiled, lazy repuke out to rob the working man while reaping all the rewards for themselves. They loot our savings institutions, then run to the guv for a bailout…look at the thieves at fannie and freddie….they lost billions last year, need a guv bailout with our tax dollars, yet just announced a dividend, plus bonuses for each ceo of 14 million. Here is another good example: the Hamptons on Long Island has long been the summer play ground of the wall street thieves…ten millin dollar beach houses are everywhere…you would think the county would be swimming in money for schools….but no, the stinking repukes control the local guv, keeping their property taxes as close to zero as possible…of course, their brats go to private schools….I say tax each and every ajc newpaper printed in the state of georgia at 20 cents per paper….TAX THE REPUKES TILL THEY ALL DIE….
By @@
July 29, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
So government, once again, functions as a predator leaving their prey to devour one another. Services will have to be cut to fund the system. Service providers (employees) will be sacrificed with little to no concern from those who caused their demise.
Human cannibalism……it’s brutal Jim.
By Dusty
July 29, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
Mr. Liberty,11:07
I am afraid you are somewhat of a racist liberal. The clues are there. They include standing army for king..black woman killed by police…Iraq..a bad thing…enforcing vice laws when there are no victims…Nullification ‘right’ helped end prohibition, slavery, and other mistakes our legislators have made.???..[police] just work as tools of the government.
I am sorry you are tilted so far left. It throws a very dim light on your comment. I assume that you are now ready to vote for one who will CORRECT all maladies by CHANGE!!
By Audie
July 29, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
John McCain hates our Veterans! I’m a Veteran and the other day I hurt myself and had to go to the doctor and did you know that John McCain didn’t come visit me in his Swift Boat? I tell you folks, John McCain hates Veterans! he probably doesn’t even like himself for it. why any candidate that doesn’t visit every injured military person or Veteran between now and November hates our Proud Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines, and should never be elected to any office! I want you to know I’m healing just fine, but no thanks to John McCain who so rudely failed to come visit me!
By Dusty
July 29, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
George Husein Blabington,11:21
You must be low on the totem pole for wages. You give us the usual nonsense.
Remove your wooden teeth and try to use your bone head. TAX THE REPUKES UNTIL THEY DIE! Cute! Cogent?? Not to mention IDIOCY? Yep… That’s Georgie Porgie.
Now eat your baloney sandwich before lunch time is over.
See ya’ll later…maybe..
By Vidal Suisun
July 29, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
Two of your words jump out at me, Mr. Wooten: you say that this doubling of pension allowances occurred “without notice”. Constitutionally, that means that the People’s wealth, or property, was taken without due process of law. Generally, due process, almost by definition, requires at a minimum (a) fair notice, (b) a public hearing and (c) prescribed provisions for appeal of the decision.
What you describe is literally “taxation without representation”. The U.S. Constitution is preeminently concerned with the prevention of unjust takings.
I would urge a class action against the Mayor and Council on the constitutional ground of abridgement of Due Process rights.
By NewsFlash
July 29, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
Things have a way of fixing themselves over time and I’m sure these issues with funds to keep our government functioning will get worked out in the end. I think we just need to keep on raising taxes and throwing good money after bad and moving more people into government jobs and raising taxes, etc., and before you know, everything will be just fine. By the way, did anyone catch the hidden message behind Perdue’s comment about local governments not needing to re-appraise properties as often as they have been? Did anyone notice the timing with this announcement? You know, with property values dropping instead of rising. That Perdue is a clever one and sneaky too. He fits right in to that Bush compassionate conservative former Democrat Republican mold, don’t he now. Of course, he’s not alone. We’ve got a majority of these smooth talkers in government these days. We used to call them carpetbaggers but I guess that’s not a politically correct term any more. Unfortunately, the economy is even taking its toll on the politically astute like Perdue. I’m sure there once was a time when he could point to the ground in front of you and say “Look, is that a penny?” and have plenty of takers. Now, it takes at least a quarter to get folks to bend over. As far as Mayor Franklin goes, she probably just doesn’t know what she’s doing. As for the tax payers, neither a “Perdue” or a “Franklin” is good and yet Georgia’s “educated” puts these people in office. These so-called educated voters also sign documents agreeing to loans terms that my grade school child knows not to agree to and run up tabs on credit cards that charge 25% annual percentage rates and spend their paychecks on lottery tickets instead of food…Then again, if I were a politician, I’d probably look down on these “Georgia educated” and say “Let us prey” as well. After all, there’s nothing like easy pickins.
By Mrs. Godzilla
July 29, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
In March 2003, weeks after the invasion of Iraq, war architect Richard Perle resigned from his position on the Defense Policy Board in an attempt to “defuse a controversy over charges he stood to profit from the war in Iraq.”But that hasn’t stopped Perle from continuing to seek profit from the war. Citing documents and people close to the negotiations, the Wall Street Journal reports today that Perle “has been exploring going into the oil business in Iraq and Kazakhstan
John McCain again pushed for offshore drilling Monday, and suggested it could provide relief to American consumers “within a matter of months.”…. No serious person could possibly believe this. John McCain couldn’t possibly believe this. It’s pure fantasy. The oil industry doesn’t even have the necessary equipment to start drilling the coasts for new oil, so there’s nothing to “exploit.”
McCain’s Landstuhl attack ‘literally is not true’
Krauthammer Links Obama’s Berlin Speech To Hitler’s Nazi Rallies
Rampant politicization of the Justice Department gets total silence from Fox News.
Senator McCain said this to George Stephanopoulos in his interview on Sunday:MCCAIN: I believe that, when he said that we had to leave Iraq, and we had to be out by last March, and we had to have a date certain, that was in contravention to — and still is — the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General David Petraeus.
S&P: Home Prices Drop By Record 15.8% In May
A clear and urgent duty of the next president will be to investigate the Bush administration’s torture policy and give Americans a full accounting of what was done in our name. It’s astounding that we need some kind of truth commission in the United States of America, but we do. Only when we learn the full story of what happened will we be able to confidently promise, to ourselves and to a world that looks to this country for moral leadership: Never again. That is the final paragraph of Eugene Robinson’s column in today’s Washington Post, entitled A Torture Paper Trail, inspired by the documents obtained under a FOIA request and then released by the ACLU. The column is, as is usually the case with Robinson, well worth reading.
By CJ
July 29, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
FYI—As of today, The Official John McCain Flip-Flop List is up to 71 items.
Enjoy.
By dusty's husband
July 29, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
My friends…You must excuse Dusty’s terse comments today…She is feeling a little bit under the weather.
Last night, once again I had to sleep on the couch!
Her overindulgence on pastrami and rye yesterday caused her unbearable stomach cramps which led to you know what?
lord knows what she’s having for lunch today!
By Mrs. Godzilla
July 29, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
TED STEVENS JUST INDICTED!
By Mike the Mick
July 29, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
As a first time visitor to this site, I was entrigued by the topic of the pension troubles in Atlanta, and wanted to comment upon it.
I worked for a private company for 27 years, built up a nice pension, then shortly after my retirement, the company declared bankruptcy, voided my pension, and dumped my insurance plan totally in my lap. I suffered about an 80% drop in monthly pension payments, now being handled by Uncle Sam through the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation. I can no longer work because of medical conditions (cancer, among others), and my wife works.
I see government workers, particularly politicians, enjoying vastly superior insurance plans and pension payoffs, all awarded to themselves, by themselves, for supposedly working for far shorter time than I did in my career. Then this stuff with Shirley Franklin, and the Atlanta political/government structure hits the airwaves, and my lid is about to burst!
Coming here, hoping to engage in meaningful dialog with taxpayers like myself being continually ripped off by the government, instead I find a site that degenerates immediately into the sewer of politics, period. Extremists on both sides, cutting and pasting talking points from their puppet masters, hurling vile (and worse) insults at each other, sinking into a mass of total stupidity, swirled about with hatred for the world and themselves, and served with no class whatsoever.
People want change at the top for sure, and it is coming for sure, no matter who gets elected. the only thing that apparently will not change is the foul attitudes and grim outlooks, as no matter who wins, we will all end up paying more for it.
And you petty people do not care. That is truly the sad truth of it all, you do not care. Just have your little site to hide behind the curtain of anonymity, hurl your insults, and think you are all grown up and are going to change the world. You most likely don’t even have the sense to change your own underwear on a daily basis, much less the world you live in..
I pity you all.
Goodbye.
By Bosch
July 29, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
Looks like Ted Stevens is in some deep $&!+.
By Dusty
July 29, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this
Dear 12:51 silly make believe “husband”..
I doubt that YOU are ANYONE’S husband(wife, dog, whatever). Gotta be slim pickin’s if YOU got off the single list. But keep up the dream.
With sympathy for your PROBLEM,
Dusty
By Peter
July 29, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Ok …….where are all the Jokers today that claim Democrat’s raise taxes ?
Well look at what we have here….
WASHINGTON - Republican presidential candidate John McCain’s signal that he may be open to a higher payroll tax for Social Security, despite previous vows not to raise taxes of any kind, is drawing sharp rebukes from conservatives.
“I will not raise taxes….read my lips”……… HA HA HA.
The Republican’s have spent soooooooo much of our money…….. looks like someone has to be “Conservative” when it comes to finances , and is sure isn’t Republican’s !
By Dummycrats for Obama
July 29, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Here’s a taste of “wisdom” of carbon credits and Dummycrat liberal agendas of that farce of global warming caused by mankind. It appears the Dummycrat Convention in Denver and associated carbon credits is funding a dead wind turbine. Amazingly, the Dummycrat “leaders” failed to own up to it. To top things off, the mental midget lib running things is a superintendent of a school district. Do you want these dimwits teaching your kids, let alone making decisions that will impact your daily life and bankbook? If so, vote Dummycrat in ‘08! You’ll get what you deserve. For the rest of you, start looking overseas to send your money for investment opportunities while you still have some; money and opportunties, that is.
WRAY - The eastern Colorado wind turbine tapped for the Democratic National Convention’s carbon-offset program has one problem: It doesn’t generate any electricity. Convention organizers are now being questioned for their eagerness to market those credits to delegates. The DNC has contracted with Vermont-based NativeEnergy to offer delegates “Green challenge” carbon offsets to soften the environmental impact of convention travel. That money is then invested in carbon-free “green” energy sources around the country, including a wind turbine installed this year by the Wray School District RD-2. But a Face The State investigation reveals the district’s turbine has never produced marketable energy due to massive equipment malfunctions.
What a bunch of incompetent left wingnut moonbat boobs.
WASHINGTON (AP) - Barack Obama’s bid to place a new Social Security tax on very high incomes is either a bold or foolhardy plan, depending on who critiques it. But its potential impact is almost impossible to gauge because he is providing few details on basic questions such as what the tax rate might be, what types of income would be taxed and how the taxpayers’ benefits would be affected.
Gee, I wonder why that is?
By Rigamarow
July 29, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
By CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 46 minutes ago WASHINGTON - Republican presidential candidate John McCain’s signal that he may be open to a higher payroll tax for Social Security, despite previous vows not to raise taxes of any kind, is drawing sharp rebukes from conservatives McCain’s shift has come in stages, catching some Republicans by surprise. Speaking with reporters on his campaign bus on July 9, he cited a need to shore up Social Security. “I cannot tell you what I would do, except to put everything on the table,” he said. He went a step farther Sunday on ABC’s “This Week,” in response to a question about payroll tax increases. “There is nothing that’s off the table. I have my positions, and I’ll articulate them. But nothing’s off the table,” McCain said. “I don’t want tax increases. But that doesn’t mean that anything is off the table.”
I wonder why ol’ Jim doesn’t have a campaign article out here today?
By Ga Values
July 29, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
McCain flip flop of the day,, “READ MY LIPS NO NEW TAXES” material WASHINGTON (AP) - Republican presidential candidate John McCain drew a sharp rebuke Monday from conservatives after he signaled an openness to a higher payroll tax for Social Security, contrary to previous vows not to raise taxes of any kind.
Speaking with reporters on his campaign bus on July 9, he cited a need to shore up Social Security, saying: “I cannot tell you what I would do, except to put everything on the table.”
He went a step farther Sunday with his reponse on a nationally televised talk show to a question about payroll tax increases.
“There is nothing that’s off the table. I have my positions, and I’ll articulate them. But nothing’s off the table,” McCain said. “I don’t want tax increases. But that doesn’t mean that anything is off the table.”
That comment drew a strong response Monday from the Club for Growth, a Washington anti-tax group. McCain’s comments, the group said in a letter to the Arizona senator, are “shocking because you have been adamant in your opposition to raising taxes under any circumstances.”
Indeed, McCain frequently has promised not to raise taxes.
At a July 7 town-hall meeting in Denver, he said voters faced a stark choice between him and Democrat Barack Obama.
“Sen. Obama will raise your taxes,” McCain said. “I won’t.”
By Bosch
July 29, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
Mike,
Um, you weren’t ripped off by the government, you were ripped off by your employers of 27 years. Seems like the government is helping yout out there, dude.
Blame the right people.
And um, bye.
By dblaney17
July 29, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
“This report shows that the reality is worse than the public’s fears. Instead of encouraging open debate, I’m disappointed that Majority Leader Reid often chooses secrecy or demagoguery,” he added. Coburn was referring to a non-partisan study released on June 10 by the government’s Congressional Research Service (CRS), which indicates that 855 of the 911 bills passed by the Senate of the 110th Congress have been streamlined by Democratic Party leadership with a procedural tactic known as Unanimous Consent (UC), which requires no debate or even a vote.
Excuse me, but did we not hear the Dems complain about Republicans doing just that which is why the Dems felt the need to return to ethics in Congress? I say let’s give them full and complete power. Let them sink their own ship and America get fed up with them too. A wise admiral of the Reagan Cold War era once said that the best way to destroy the USSR was to give them complete control of one of our aircraft carriers and let them try and run it. Well, the Dems are halfway there already, and the ship is Congress. Keep up the good work dummies!
By george hussein washington
July 29, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
ANOTHER LYING THIEVING REPUKE SENATOR HAS BEEN INDITED: WHEN WILL LYING THIEVING NEWSPAPER EDITORS BE ARRESTED? The highest ranking republican Senator has been indited by a Federal Grand Jury for Lying on official documents….1 down, 99 to go….
By RW
July 29, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
Get your facts straight about Mayor Franklin. The City Council passed each of the pension ordinances 15-0. The mayor’s only act was not to veto the legislation, a veto that would very obviously have been overriden. Without Shirley Franklin, and all the terrific things she’s done for Atlanta,this city would have been Detroit minus 10 a long time ago.
By ben nielson
July 29, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
“[O]ver the past few years, large financial institutions, hedge funds, pension funds, and other investment funds have been pouring billions of dollars into the energy commodities markets - perhaps as much as $60 billion in the regulated U.S. oil futures market alone - to try to take advantage of price changes or to hedge against them,”
This past week, (late June) U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein ( D-Calif.), and U.S. Sen. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska) introduced legislation to curb speculation.
Ted Stevens has been indicted by a Justice Department that liberals deem corrupt under GWB.
Mike the Mick is right. Government supporters can’t see the forest for the political tree hackers.
Idiot voters blogging their lives - our future away.
By Bosch
July 29, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
Ted Stevens is 84 years old?!!!?
He should have quit while he was ahead.
By Just Nasty and Mean
July 29, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
Mrs Godzilla
Are you schizophrenic or just an idiot?
You are contributing NOTHING to the discourse other than classic partisan crap.
It is clear your don’t bother to read Jim’s column, or remarks from other bloggers since every single post you make is either:
1) blowing smoke up Obama’s bu!t or,
2) slamming McCain.
If I were a betting man, I’d say you were a paid partisan from Chicago chartered with infiltrating local blogs with your slanted commercial slop.
If this is how the Obama campaign is run, there is NO WAY I would ever vote for Obama as president.
By Big Dandy
July 29, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
Mike the Mick, take a few deep breaths and try to get hold of yourself, your hysterical outburst will do nothing to help the situation. Whining can sometimes be a release valve, but it rarely accomplishes anything. I know all you wanted was a little pity but this is the wrong place for that.
I do feel sorry for you though, hope that helps!
By Copyleft
July 29, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
You are contributing NOTHING to the discourse other than classic partisan crap.
JNM: And, since you’ve just described Andy/AJC Management to a T, I assume you’re equally disgusted with the notion of voting for McLame?
By ChowD
July 29, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
senator obama is a political pawn intended to make blacks look incompetent. i’ve never trusted the limousine and bleeding heart liberals to do what is in the best interest of african americans. never! there is no way barack can solve all the problems he will inherit. the higher the expectations the further he falls. we’ve been had again.
By Mike Hussein Smith
July 29, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
MENTAL HEALTH BREAK
Sen Ted Stevens of Alaska, Reoublican dean of the U.S Senate, was indicted on multiple corruption charges today in Washington. This puts him on a bridge to nowhere and possibly opens up a Senate seat for Democrats.
Gov. Sarsh Palin of Alaska, mentioned as a running mate fof john mccain, will be investigated by state legislators for firing her public safety commissioner, allegedly because she was angry that the commish had not fired a state trooper who went through a messy divorce and ongoing child custody battle with Palin’s sister. There goes those family values.
By Dusty
July 29, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
Well, what do ya know? Democrats are celebrating wildly. After diggng and whining for years about the President and every Republican in Washington, they FINALLY got hold of something..wheeee..an indictment!!
Liddy’s trial was such a fiasco with someone already confessed to the “crime ” for which he was tried, seemed to be a weak hit for something he said he forgot. BUTTTTT..Dems keep trying for another GREAT success.
Looks like it is going to be the renovation of Steven’s home in Alaska. Well, now, that is a big subversive issue if I ever heard one. The details are not out yet but Democrats are already celebrating.
Maybe we should blame it on Harvard Law School. Stevens got his law degree there. Obama got his law degree there. And it seems we can’t trust either one any farther than we can throw them. But let us not rush to judgment. Nawwww…nobody would do that.. No sir!!
By Miss Congeniality
July 29, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
Mike the Mick,
I am sorry you feel this bolg site a waste of your time. I am confident that if you learned to read between the bickering, (and gain a sense of humor) you would find that there is good discussion on here.
Having said that, I am sorry to hear about your troubles, but your anger is misguided.
It appears to me that your fellow taxpayers have nothing to do with what your company has done to you. I am sorry you ended up working for such a place. But you stated that you are receiving some pension from the government. So, as a matter of fact, the taxpayers are helping you out, when in fact you should’ve been taken care of. You should be more grateful to the government for bailing your butt out since they did not have to lift a finger.
I am sorry that you feel government workers are less deserving to their pensions. But since they make significantly less wages for most jobs than in the private sector, I think they should be entitled to somehting when they can no longer work. No offense, but working for a company for as long as you did, you must have made a decent wage. Why then did you not set aside somehting for yourself? And why now whine about the corrupt government when now they are bailing you out??
Just curious.
By Mike Hussein Smith
July 29, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
READ IT AND WEEP — From Time.com You already know the old argument: Republicans cut taxes, Democrats raise them. Except it’s not true, at least not in the way that it seems. But don’t take my word for it. 88Here is Douglas Holtz-Eakin, McCain’s chief economic policy adviser.88 “I used to say that Barack Obama raises taxes and John McCain cuts them, and I was convinced,” he told me in a phone interview this week. But “I stand corrected [about Obama’s plans].”
That’s because unlike sound bites, the policies proposed by Obama are actually complicated. He would raise taxes on those who make more than about $200,000, in some cases by significant amounts, through increases in taxes on capital gains, dividends and regular income. But Obama has also proposed a whole range of tax cuts, for poor seniors, working people, homeowners and parents, as well as for health-care expenses and even renewable energy. The net effect, according to experts in both campaigns and independent analysts, would be a reduction in government revenue over 10 years. In other words, a tax cut.
By Rigamarow
July 29, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
I will be tuning in to Fox this evening to see how they try to spin this now that McCain has had his very own “read my lips” moment.
I guess Republicans are not necessarily against raising taxes now are they???
IT’S OKAY REPUKES, MCCAIN SAID IT’S OKAY TO BE FOR HIGHER TAXES, YOU CAN ALL SING IN UNISON NOW ABOUT HOW IT MIGHT BE BENEFICIAL IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES!!!
Hilarious!!
Repubs, any comments?? Let’s turn this into an election campaign blog..
By Dusty
July 29, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this
Bosch, 1:36
You have called your elderly relatives “evil” and now you want to get rid of someone in Congress because YOU DECIDED HE IS TOO OLD. What is your problem? Do you think you will not grow old and evil (as you put it one time)?
Dr. DeBakey died recently at 99. He had been retired only a few years. He had perfected heart surgery and was respected around the world. He contributed greatly in his later years, just as he had done in his early years. There are many histories like Dr. DeBakey’s.
What is YOUR contribution NOW?? Well, maybe you are already retired and useless as you seem to think others are. I would not be surprised. USELESS is not necessarily an elderly adjective. It may come with the likes of you.
By Mrs. Godzilla
July 29, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
Just mean and nasty
ditto right back at ya’ dude!
in fact double dog ditto!
Dusty
don’t you mean Libby?
(Liddy would be G. Gordon or Mrs. Bob/Senator)
By Mike Hussein Smith
July 29, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
Dusty, you Hummer dumber, your kneejack reactions are not worth posting. Ted Stevens is a Senate Republican. So are Isakson and Chambliss? So all three must be crooks, huh? Birds of a feather flock together, huh? I mean, that seems to be the extent of your thinking.
By Midori
July 29, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
here’s a novel idea: put Crusty’s stupid a@@ in jail too!!
Drinks all around!!
I’m buying!!!
By Soothsayer
July 29, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
As Americans we want it both ways:
We want to drive monster trucks and SUVs but we don’t want to pay very much for gas
We want a secure retirement but we want the cheapee deal at Wal-Mart on Chinese goods
We want a secure housing market but we ship all of the decent paying jobs to China and India
We want every service and benefit that government can provide but we want tax cuts that leave us with giant budget deficits
By getalife
July 29, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
Yup, wingnuts should be labeled enemy combatants and given the same rights.
They kill at churches with shotguns.
By buster brown
July 29, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
By Mrs. Godzilla
July 29, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
Mrs. Godzilla..I think DUSTY was referring to “SCOOTER”, Although you couldn’t tell it be her inane paragraph!
By Dusty
July 29, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
Thank you, Mrs. Godzy. What would I do without you? Indeed, I meant Libby.
With all your practice at monitoring reprints, I’m sure you are an expert. Thanks again.
Mike Husein Smithee.
I know Stevens is a Republican. But I know that Republicans don’t go around like a Conga line in Congress as you seem to think they do. Each one stands on his/her merits.
You Democrats are the ones celebrating charges against Stevens. I am not. I don’t really like indictments against anyone in Congress. It has taken too long to clean up Washington’s reputation after Clinton without adding anything else.
Midori-
A nothing contributing nothing.
By dirty harry
July 29, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
By Dusty
July 29, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
DUSTY…Don’t you get it? You can’t be so stupid, or blinded by your politics.
The amount of this small renovation is in excess of $250,000.00. Of Which he didn’t bother to report..
I don’t care if he/she is a democrat or republican this amounts to what I guess you haven’t heard of is called quid pro quo!
It also points out that he is corrupt!
By Bosch
July 29, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
Dusty@ 2:03,
Damn, woman! Calm down. I hope you realize outbursts like that only make you seem crazier than usual.
By Dusty
July 29, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
dirty harry,2:30
I have not read any details on the indictment against Stevens. Who paid for the renovation on his home? To whom was he supposed to report it? What did he give in return?
I don’t know all the facts or the answers. Obviously you are judge and jury and we don’t need any more. Just throw the guy in jail and continue the Dem celebration.
Who knows? If Democratic leadership continues, they will have the approval of Congress at 0%. One indictment over a home renovation is not going to change that.
Keep trying. lil’ buddy. You don’t have much to celebrate.
By Dusty
July 29, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
bosch, 2:38
To what exactly are you referring?
Look in the archives if you don’t remember your own posts. Maybe you are just getting old and “evil” and forgetful???
I am just as calm as always. But then I don’t drink. Obviously you do. What ale is it today?
By Fix-It
July 29, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
MrsGodzilla, are you lost? What has anything you have had to say done with the topic at hand. Let me refresh your short term memory. This is about the problem with the Atlanta city government. People like you will make me vote republican.
By Blind Homer
July 29, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
Wooten is right, currently funded individual accounts like 401(k)s are the long-term solution not only for government pensions, but socil security as well. However, social security can only be made solvent by reducing benefits or increasing the tax. We will probably see some combination of both, higher rates, no cutoff for higher eanrers, needs testing, delayed or decreased payments, etc. Wouldn’t it be nice to start fixing some of that now instead of rebuilding Iraq or adding universal health care?
By Paul
July 29, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
Mrs. Godzilla 12:26
[[Krauthammer Links Obama’s Berlin Speech To Hitler’s Nazi Rallies]]
Let me guess – ThinkProgress? They’re not familiar with his penchant for dry humor, delivered almost every night? Just wondering, did your source also rail against Joh Stewart last Thursday when he said “There’s something about a charismatic leader rallying huge crowds of Germans in a public square… it just gives you goosesteps… bumps.”? Unfortunately, to quote ThinkProgress, “Some other members of the panel (audience) chuckled at Krauthammer’s (Stewart’s) distasteful analogy.
Or is there some new bigotry out there that says conservatives can’t do irony?
One would imagine ThinkProgress would have left the part in where Krauthammer said “The idea of the trip was to establish a predicate, a premise that one day he could be president, and credibly so abroad. And there he succeeded. It is going to help him in November.” Oh, wait, that would presuppose ThinkProgress isn’t an ideological organization who takes any opportunity to selectively edit to attack conservatives.
[[“McCain’s Landstuhl attack ‘literally is not true’]] – I’ve said before, there are people who will make their voting decisions based partly upon how the candidates conduct their campaigns, particularly since both have declared a new, respectful style. As this ad you referenced was produced by McCain’s own organization and not a 527, this ad (not the first of its ilk) should cost him.
[[S&P: Home Prices Drop By Record 15.8% In May]] Great! Now all those families who couldn’t qualify for mortgages under traditional guidelines may be able to afford a house.
Your Eugene Robinson reference on a truth commission – a central thesis of his column was that the current or next President should grant a full pardon to anyone involved. I’ll bet that’ll go over great with the ultraleft sites – or, they’ll just ignore that part and continue to hammer “Bush-torture.”
Your 1:09 [[TED STEVENS JUST INDICTED!]]
It’s about time. But ‘time’ is something he probably won’t do.
By Fix-It
July 29, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
MrsGodzilla, are you lost? What has anything you have had to say done with the topic at hand. Let me refresh your short term memory. This is about the problem with the Atlanta city government. People like you will make me vote republican.
By dirty harry
July 29, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
DUSTY you ought to read more…The company that did the renovation was VECO, Inc. And, guess what business they are a an Alaska-based oil field services and engineering company that has reaped tens of millions of dollars in federal contracts. GEE I wonder how they accomplished that?
The project was overseen by Bill Allen, a contractor who has pleaded guilty to bribing Alaska state legislators.
And, guess who the founder of Veco is BILL ALLEN!
As to your other question he has to as a U.S. Senator report any gifts in excess of $350.00.
He also received from Veco a$ 44,000 Land Rover.
NEXT UP, DON YOUNG!
By Bosch
July 29, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
Good afternoon Paul,
Did you catch any of the interviews with Pakistan’s new PM/Pres?
By dirty harry
July 29, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
DUSTY…By the way if you haven’t read any of details of the indictment why are you bothering to post your opinion?
By ?quid pro quo?
July 29, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
Apparently his expanded back yard deal wasn’t the only Obama Rezko real estate dealing. The Boston Globe is reporting that as a state Senator, Obama pushed through a housing development deal in his district. Tony Rezko and Six of his real estate partners were involved, they all provided tons of cash to Obama’s campaign fund. Today, eight year later, the buildings can best be described as deteriorating tenements. BOYS AND GIRLS, CAN YOU SAY “QUID PRO QUO?”
By NewsFlash
July 29, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
Sorry to hear that you are getting screwed by your former employer, Mike. I also understand where you are coming from as far as our government is concerned. The one thing you can be certain of is that they’ll take care of themselves and the one’s that they owe the favors. Vote out all incumbents. Keep ‘em churning and keep on talking. The best shot we have is to not let them get comfortable. Good luck.
By Peter
July 29, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
More Republican “Family Values”…………..
Prosecutors said Stevens received more than $250,000 in gifts and services from VECO Corp., a powerful oil services contractor, and its executives. From May 1999 to August 2007, prosecutors said, the 84-year-old senator concealed “his continuing receipt of hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of things of value from a private corporation.”
Gee look at the typical Republican Crook lawmaker……..
And all you folks wonder why America has expensive Oil, and is running a huge deficit…….
Gee another OLD GUY…….. like McLost who should be out to pasture.
By clarence SLAPPY thomas
July 29, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Oh me…Why have you awaken me?
Antonin was supposed to have written my opinion, and here I am transported to this blog.
Antonin assures me of one thing. Mr. Wooten will not write about The Honorable Senator from Alaska’s indictment tomorrow.
By @@
July 29, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
Miss Congeniality:
Maybe Mike the Mick is frustrated that the first six months (depending on his tax bracket) of his income went to pay for the generous guaranteed pensions for government incompetents. Don’t know for sure. Maybe he can elaborate if he returns.
By RW-(the original)
July 29, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
ON TOPIC
OFF TOPIC
Feel free to cut and paste whichever is appropiate at the beginning of your comment and we should all be able to get along.
For instance:
ON TOPIC
When government workers start collecting pensions do they quit collecting disability?
and:
OFF TOPIC
Mrs. IN THE NEWSZILLA,
Andy adds biting commentary of his own that contrast his beliefs with those of the authors. In many cases you’re posting the same articles. You because of being a mindless spammer and him to show you just how mindless you are to buy those things lock, stock, and barrel.
You claim to be doing the same thing he is, but if you were you would be linking to conservative stories and pointing out what you think is their fallacy.
By Peter
July 29, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
Looks like the Republican Lunnies who think Global Warming is NOT REAL…….. better read for a change !
OTTAWA (Reuters) - Giant sheets of ice totaling almost eight square miles broke off an ice shelf in the Canadian Arctic last week and more could follow later this year, scientists said on Tuesday. ADVERTISEMENT
Temperatures in large parts of the Arctic have risen far faster than the global average in recent decades, a development that experts say is linked to global warming.
Yes Global Warming is NOT REAL…..Ok Wrongs….go back…….. yes put your Heads back in the sand !
Kind of like the Deficit doesn’t make a difference.
By BFKaJ
July 29, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
Totally off-topic, not that anyone really cares, did everyone see Jon Voight’s article? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jul/28/voight/
As to the Ted Stevens indictment, he is charged with the wrong crime. He is accused of mistating things - the democrats’s favorite charge when they are criminalizing political differences. Of course he should be prosecuted for spending like a democrat, the crook.
By Keeler
July 29, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
Dusty don’t ever refer to Midori as a “nothing - contributing nothing”.
She does great work. One of my favorite actresses. Think I’m kidding, Google her if you will. You’d be impressed I tell you.
By AmVet
July 29, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Welcome to the “new” GOP.
So this white southern scumbag “conservative” hated liberals and thought he’d just shoot up a Unitarian church. During a children’s play!!!
It probably makes a couple of the regulars here smile.
The Unitarians are about the most peaceful and harmless folks anyone’s ever met.
And malevolence like his doesn’t grow in a vacuum; it is nurtured, shaped and focused by hate-mongers like Ann Coulter and Bill O’Reilly and the other talking head cretins, who probably silently cheer at the notion of killing a few liberals to keep them in line, or who have made careers out of vilifying the political opposition as terrorists and traitors.
No, neither Coulter nor O’Reilly nor any of their sickening pals actually pulled the trigger, but they surely knew that their words would encourage their fellow far right wing nut jobs who could and would.
These are the mullahs of the extremist American right, and the liberal-hating homicidal Adkisson is a suicide bomber of their own creation.
Say what you want about the aggressive rhetoric of non neo-con bloggers and activists like me, but we don’t advocate violence.
Though at times I must admit I would sure like to…
By Copyleft
July 29, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
Everything gets filtered through the “leftist lenses,” eh BFK? Stevens commits a crime by lying about money (something every Republican understands), and you immediately declare it the “politicizing political differences.”
Despite the Bush regime’s attempt to rewrite reality, a lie is STILL a lie. Dressing it up as “political differences” is the sort of excuse-making I’d expect from a tireless right-wing apologist like yourself.
Do you remember WHEN you switched off your brain to serve your right-wing masters? Do you even remember when you used to HAVE a brain??? Geez, how openly corrupt do these losers have to get before you stop kissing their butts?
By Paul
July 29, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
Good Afternoon, Bosch
Just briefly. Right off, I was struck, again, by the gulf that exists in that country. Look at and listen to the likes of a PM Gilani, then look at and listen to those living in the rugged tribal areas. Does a greater gulf exist in any other country?
I think the new PM’s trying to do a lot - establish himself as a credible leader in opposition to Pres M; capitalize on negative sentiments from the air strikes while not alienating himself from Washington; portray himself as diplomatic in dealing with extremists; but what I’m interested in is what he does with the intel service. It’s gonna be interesting to watch. Hopefully @@ will give us some Stratfor updates -
By Peter
July 29, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
Please Copyleft…..the right wings have ALL had their frontal lobotomy !
It would be TOO difficult to SEE the Reality before their eyes, with out it !
It happens at an early age in the house holds of ALL Republican babies !
By Fix-It
July 29, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
Oh shut up Copyleft, don’t you remember Jefferson, the democrat with $100,000 in him freezer? They are all crooks, and this is a blog on Atlanta city problems, not your issues with the republicans. You an MrsGodzilla need to give it a rest, or go to the correct forum.
By Paul
July 29, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
AmVet 3:46
[[And malevolence like his doesn’t grow in a vacuum; it is nurtured, shaped and focused by hate-mongers like Ann Coulter and Bill O’Reilly]]
Are you sure you’re AmVet? ‘Cause if you were, you’d know BOR is in favor of rights for homosexual couples, favors gays being able to adopt, opposes the death penalty… I could go on with just the kind of examples that sicko used as excuses to kill others.
I’m not convinced you’re AmVet. That post doesn’t even fit in the “stretching a point to make a point’ category.
By Hillbilly Deluxe
July 29, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
They could just do what corporations do. Promise pension benefits and then years down the road say…well we’re sorry can’t afford that….so you’re pension is being cut….oh the money we agreed to set aside for your pension?…well we spent that years ago on other things.
By Fix-It
July 29, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
Oh shut up Copyleft, don’t you remember Jefferson, the democrat with $100,000 in his freezer? They are all crooks, and this is a blog on Atlanta city problems, not your issues with the republicans. You an MrsGodzilla need to give it a rest, or go to the correct forum.
By Fix-It
July 29, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
Oh shut up Copyleft, don’t you remember Jefferson, the democrat with $100,000 in his freezer? They are all crooks, and this is a blog on Atlanta city problems, not your issues with the republicans. You an MrsGodzilla need to give it a rest, or go to the correct forum.
By Bosch
July 29, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
Paul,
Yeah. Good points. Makes you realize even more how difficult military operations moving from Iraq to Afghanistan would be.
By AJC/DNC Management
July 29, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
“It is critical our community be an integral and active part of the debate because African-Americans are disproportionately impacted by the effects of climate change economically, socially and through our health and well-being,” House Majority Whip James Clyburn, D-S.C., said July 29.
“Though far less responsible for climate change, African-Americans are significantly more vulnerable to its effects than non-Hispanic whites,” the report says. “Health, housing, economic well-being, culture, and social stability are harmed from such manifestations of climate change as storms, floods, and climate variability.
Say what?
First of all, “storms, floods, and climate variability” have been with us for like, uh, forever, who were you dimwits blaming back in the beginning of last century?
And if anyone would like to produce some evidence that backs up the dimwitocrat’s statement, be sure to pass it along so we can dog it out.
By Mrs. Godzilla
July 29, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
Funny thing
I can post what I deem appropriate
and what’s more
so can everyone else
so
y’all playing topic police
best find something better to do with your time
what I find most amazing
is how much info - unapproved by the RNC - disturbs some of you
because
a couple of you may not like what i post, or how I post….but you are just going to have to learn to live with it
see, I don’t think highly of your posts either - that’s why I do what I do.
free speech is pretty damn terrific
By fearless fosdik
July 29, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
By Fix-It
July 29, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
Mr FIX IT
You only need to point your arrow once at the post button, and it will post your comment!
No need to keep posting the same comment over and over…you become VERY redundant.
By Mrs. Godzilla
July 29, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
ABC: Without ‘creative White House accounting,’ Bush’s deficit is actually $600 billion.
McCain Spokesman: John McCain Doesn’t Know What He’s Talking About On Social Security
White House press corps hasn’t asked Perino about DOJ politicization.
McCain to follow bin Laden to the gates of hell — unless the gates are in Pakistan
John McCain told Newsweek, “The majority of women in America, in my view, respect the rights of the unborn.” In our reality, most American women are pro-choice.
Obama is raising more money than McCain in Idaho? That’s a pleasant surprise.
Free speech, use while ya’ got it!
By AmVet
July 29, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
I am dismayed (but not at all surprised) to see that someone can so easily dismiss corruption as an “accounting” issue.
Notwithstanding that the Dems have their share of sleaze balls, the undeniable truth is that this “new” scandal infested non-conservative conservative GOP has a VERY long, disgusting and unapologetic track record of putting themselves and their already fat pocketbooks or pedaphilic johnsons before EVERYTHING else including, of course, the good of the nation. And who YET AGAIN have p!ssed away the trust of the American people.
Hi Paul, long time no see. You know I value your input, but I think you missing the forest from the trees, my friend.
So, Billy Boy gives the gays a break. And he actually does come down on the side of humanity on a couple of other issues.
Whoop de doo. What a class guy. But it is also indisputable that he has an almost irrational hyper-partisan hatred for virtually all other things liberal.
We both know there are dozens if not hundreds of his hate-filled quotes to confirm that.
Just read the following part about libs ruining the country - it could come right from that stupid program. (Police found right-wing political books, brass knuckles, empty shotgun shell boxes and a handgun in the Powell home of a man who said he attacked a church in order to kill liberals “who are ruining the country,” court records show.)
And no matter what you and I think, the following is the ultimate damning evidence that the dirtball dug those talking heads and almost certainly used them as motivation.
Inside the house, officers found “Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder” by radio talk show host Michael Savage, “Let Freedom Ring” by talk show host Sean Hannity, and “The O’Reilly Factor,” by television talk show host Bill O’Reilly.
I stick by my assertion that they are the “conservatives” American mullahs and this POS was their suicide bomber…
By Miss Congeniality
July 29, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
Go, go Godzilla!!!
By @@
July 29, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
Paul:
Odd you would mention the ISI situation. I read an analysis at Stratfor earlier today. Just came in to follow up.
They reversed their move to put the ISI under civilian control. It appears that all the newcomers are trying to figure out the ropes. It’s back under the military. Some of the excuses they’re offering appear to be an attempt to cover up some incoherence among major players. I think it’s a hot potato they’d just soon not handle right now.
Both Gilani and Pakistan’s army is telling Bush that the current setup in Islamabad is under the threat of destabilization in the wake of U.S. pressure, and the alternative could very likely be chaos that works to the jihadists’ advantage.
A couple of recent strikes have taken out some major Al Qaeda operatives. Pakistan’s response has been pretty tempered in my opinion.
Then you’ve got Afghanistan blaming Pakistan’s ISI for attacks in Afghanistan. Another thing, Afghanistan wants NATO and U.S. Forces to fall under their command in pursuing terrorists in their country.
Obama ain’t gotta clue.
By RW-(the original)
July 29, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
Mrs. IN THE NEWSZILLA,
You have no freedom of speech on these blogs. It’s pretty obvious that Mr. Wooten doesn’t care what or how one posts here, but any of the blog hosts could dictate what you can post anytime they wanted to.
By The Love Hack
July 29, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
Funny thing, Fearless, those exact instructions (point arrow once at the post button), came with my blow up doll.
Until now I had no idea what they meant. But now……excuse me, I have to go, uh, use the restroom……
Camera to me blowing up my blow up doll in a huff, not being able to wait until I gets to point my arrow at the post button on the doll……if’n you be gettin what I be intimatin’ to you this day…..
By Paul
July 29, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
Mrs. Godzilla
I rather enjoy many of your links. Rather take them as a challenge to take an ideological posting and see that side, then the same point applied right back at the ideologues.
Like the McCain-OBL-Pakistan item. From your carpetbagger link we see that in another way Sen Obama is more like Pres Bush than Sen McCain is:
“Existing U.S. policy, under the Bush administration, is to go after terrorists in Pakistan. Obama wants to keep this policy in place.”
So the Left criticizes McCain for being less like Pres Bush while complimenting Obama for being more like Pres Bush!
You see why I like your posts?
By The Love Hack
July 29, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
Slow news day. McCain’s campaign is on idle. Obama’s campaign is on idol.
Match that, trolls. Then folks’ll think that YOU’RE the genius here, instead of the strap on dribble glasses your faces truly R.
bwa
By Inspector Clouseau
July 29, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
Remeber the Keating Five?
It appears the apple doesn’t fall far from the McSame.
Silver State Bancorp (NASDAQ:SSBX), the holding company for Silver State Bank, announced today that Andrew K. McCain submitted his resignation today as a director on the Boards of Directors of Silver State Bancorp and Silver State Bank, citing personal reasons.
Hmmmmmm…. what was Andrew (McCains son up to) that caused him to resign.
Do I smell another Neil Bush in the woodwork?
By Mrs. Godzilla
July 29, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
GREAT VIDEO
The Commander in Chief Test
By Vidal Suisun
July 29, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Truth is, McCain’s campaign is on wash & dry, while Obama’s campaign is on *fluff & fold”.
By george hussein washington
July 29, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
Another News Service has closed…only four newspaper’s now have foreign offices…quick everyone, cancel any and all subscriptions to the aj urinal…we and git rid of woodenhead and all the other uga graduates….WASHINGTON (AP) - Newhouse News Service, a supplemental wire service founded in 1961, will close on Nov. 7, after the election. The news service is also the Washington bureau of Advance Publications Inc. of New York, which owns 26 daily newspapers, including The Star-Ledger in Newark, N.J; The Oregonian in Portland, Ore.; The Plain Dealer in Cleveland, and The Times-Picayune in New Orleans.
“The decision to close followed the direction of our clients, the editors of our papers,” said Linda Fibich, editor and Washington bureau chief. “They felt they could not afford to pay for a central Washington bureau at a time when they were steering all available resources to local coverage back at home.”
The news service has 24 employees. Of those, 11 are reporters who write for specific newspapers and “are being offered opportunities to join the staffs of those newspapers,” Fibich said. “Whether the individual papers maintain a presence in Washington is up to each individual paper.”
The news service “will make efforts to place the remaining employees,” Fibich said.
The news service is also the parent company of Religion News Service, which will continue as an independent company, she said
By Paul
July 29, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
AmVet
Well, I’m glad it is you. Two of you would be too much…
:-)
I suppose I see more nuance with BOR than with many other broadcasters. I just don’t see him in the same genre as “conservative” radio or tv, any more than I saw Tim Russert in the same category as Keith Olbermann. Sure, I find him a bit much at times - which is why I watch it on DVR, not live. Fast forward is a marvelous feature.
But many of his positions are downright liberal. The ones I mentioned. Some would classify his global warming views, too. Plus a bunch of others. He donates all his profits from merchandise sales to charity. His hour-long interview with Jesse Jackson was great. He just had a radio show devoted to answering critics who thought he’s too much of an Obama fan. I listened to him in a face-to-face harshly criticize Ann Coulter for her over the top remarks. Her response was “I’m not going to cool it. Each time I say something like that I sell more books and get more speaking bookings.” So he called her on it - and she didn’t deny it. That’s the difference between the two.
As far as having that book in his house - that’s causative, not associative?
I wonder how the guy handled comments like “”The rich want us to believe that anyone can make the quantum leap from bowling league to country club by just working a little harder. That’s supposed to keep us motivated and quiet.” That’s a conservative?
Anyhow, good to have you back -
@@
When you’re in tune, you’re in tune!
Learning the ropes? More like learning who in the ISI’s carrying the ropes to hang them with. Ever kick over a rock looking for a roach and find a rattlesnake instead? Stakes just went way up -
“Both Gilani and Pakistan’s army is telling Bush that the current setup in Islamabad is under the threat of destabilization in the wake of U.S. pressure, and the alternative could very likely be chaos that works to the jihadists’ advantage.”
Ahem - I believe that’s the cautionary point I’ve made to people who say “Yea, Obama, go get’em in Pakistan!”
Unintended consequences have a tendency to be nasty consequences.
By RW-(the original)
July 29, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
Just thumbed through a copy of The O’Reilly Factor, and paid special attention to the Politics Factor chapter. It confirmed my suspicions that Blowhard is still just that and nothing more.
By Vidal Suisun
July 29, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this
@@ (for free) and Paul,
In the “Obama ain’t gotta clue” department, shortly after the candidate met with the Commanding General in Afghanistan, supposedly to discuss Afghan strategy, he couldn’t remember Maj. Gen. Cone’s name.
Fluff in Afghanistan, fold in Iraq.
By JR
July 29, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
As a true Independent I don’t have a horse in this race (Also a mule would be better than those two, both parties should be ashamed of themselves) but I would like to ask the person that said Obama would reduce the Federal revenue for the next 10 years a question. What would that do to the national debt?
By AmVet
July 29, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
Paul, lets just agree to disagree. I still contend he’s crazy like a fox. Out of one side of his mouth he adores that twisted tw@t Coulter and then later pretends she is TOO much.
If you look evil in the face and smile, you are not one of the good guys. You’re probably a Republican!!! :>)
So I don’t buy it, but if others do, fine.
Speak aboriginal! Speak!! Now roll over and play dead.
The most derided, laughed at blogger on two posts loves his “right wing” swinging strike outs and missing the salient point of any given conversation by the same margin he misses fairways. (Oh, and nuts who shoot up liberal places). And rightfully takes to heart my observations about the very worst on the far right’s lunatic fringe. If the foo sh!ts…
Found those holes in the fossil record yet, Ricky Retardo?
The more things change…
By @@
July 29, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
Both Bush and McCain have already met with PM Gilani of Pakistan assuring him that Pakistan’s sovereignty would be protected. Obama is scheduled to meet with Gilani today.
Cool site. Who knows, we may see another flip to flop Obama.
I love to check out the other mindset which reminds me…..
I’ve been visiting a lot of black websites. Somebody up ^^^ there mentioned that Obama may have been set up by the dems to take a fall. At these black websites I’ve been visiting, many of THEM believe that Obama is an elitist who has no interest in theirs. In other words….
he’s a sellout.
Another thing, I watched a Q&A session on CNBC with some guy - a true progressive (other than AmVet, the rest of you here are just wannabes) who’s warning that Obama is an empty suit beholdin’ to corporate interests. Said something about today’s left wanting to use the poor, but not live among them - “the stench”, his words not mine.
Interesting fella. Didn’t agree with much of what he said, but he’s voting for Nader.
Off to VBS where I promise not to lead the kids astray AmVet.
Vidal:
free=easy keeper. Me and my dog Buddy.
By Vidal Suisun
July 29, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this
AmVet,
You regard Ann Coulter as “the face of evil”? And yet you’ve served in the military? Was it during a time of conflict? If so, did you ever look one of the enemy in the eye — even on film — and see evil?
Or is it just conservatives, get you riled?
By Paul
July 29, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
AmVet
I’m fine with that. I do not agree with many of his positions but find many have merit. Plus, I like the range of people he interviews. I enjoy how he gets them to say things (after repeating the question multiple times when they won’t answer) they don’t say elsewhere. That’s why I watch. On a DVR. All the other stuff I just let go. It’s no big deal.
@@
[[Said something about today’s left wanting to use the poor, but not live among them ]]
Kinda like Rev Wright in his multimillion dollar home in his almost all white gated community?
Okay, okay, it’s been beat to death….
By Midori
July 29, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
If what I contribute is deemed “nothing” according to Crusty, what is that garbage she posts ad nauseum?
what’s a polite word for “feces”?
Go back to contributing something worthwhile, Crusty.
go stir your bleeping cauldron.
how’s your supply of eye of newt?
By Vidal Suisun
July 29, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this
Talkin’ bout a one-girl dog, y’all. Nobody’s friend but mine…
By AmVet
July 29, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this
VS, haven’t read much of your stuff here, but what a moronic question…
By Vidal Suisun
July 29, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this
Midori: please post away, and if you should choose to have Dusty as your foil, I’m sure she’d welcome the combat.
If not, so much the better.
By AJC/DNC Management
July 29, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
Oil prices tumbled more than $2 a barrel Tuesday, finishing at their lowest level in seven weeks as a stronger dollar and beliefs that record prices are eroding the world’s thirst for energy sparked another dramatic sell-off, blah, blah, blah.
What lower demand, did al-Gore turn his A/C off?
For last several months demand has been tapering off, and the seller’s of oil, knowing that we have Thee Most Stupid Congress In Thee History Of Thee Earth, kept raising prices anyway.
Only after Bushie said “let’s drill” did thee sell off begin.
Hail Bushie!
By RW-(the original)
July 29, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this
Blowhard,
Why would I look for holes in the fossil record? You still haven’t come up with a single example of a species ever becoming a different one and you’ve only been promising to for three years running.
I’ll return you to your silly name calling and posting the identical diatribes at 15 blogs a day. You’re dismissed.
By Paul
July 29, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this
@@
I read you were leaving, but in case you return and scan through this.
There’s a question, an idea I’ve been thinking about. I raise it with you only because I like to ask opposing questions to those who have an opposing viewpoint who reason through an idea. Helps to point out strengths or weaknesses in the argument.
Much has been made of Obama’s experience, or lack thereof, particularly as he’s vying for the most powerful position in the world.
Many here cite Pres Reagan as a great President, if not in policies then in the ability to communicate, to share his vision and positive outlook and inspire others to follow suit - a quality some define as “leadership.”
When he ran for governor of California (a state larger, more complex and of greater economic power than many countries) his only qualification, if I recall correctly, was President of the Screen Actor’s Guild.
But lack of such ‘experience’ didn’t hold him back from winning the governorship.
And when he ran for President? His experience at the Federal level was only to the extent he interacted with the Feds while serving as governor.
But both as governor, then as President, people put aside the question of ‘experience’ and elected a man with qualities they deemed those with experience lacked.
Is Sen Obama that much different?
By Vidal Suisun
July 29, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this
Godspeed in VBS, @@. Wish I were going, if only to observe. Sorry you’ve been name-jacked already.
By AmVet
July 29, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
For those of you who cannot figure out what the h&ll the ballerina is blathering on about, I have shocking news.
He has a theory that actually trumps Darwin’s! (Similar to the Church’s “understandings” that superseded Galileo and our very own Duhng’s Theory on climate change.)
Notwithstanding that the English naturalist’s theories have stood as the penultimate basis of scientific understanding for over 150 years and that it is the very basis of modern biology and genetics.
See, Ricky’s theory is that Darwin is all wrong.
Typical “conservative”…
By RW-(the original)
July 29, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
It only took them about a week to catch up to the news cycle, but the New York Times has finally made it. Do we still call them the paper of record?
If the story behind the story of the canceled troop visit has run its course, one question remains: Why didn’t Mr. Obama leave his aides behind, even the retired general, and make the visit by himself?
Could be his vanity, but more likely it’s because he’s a dunce.
By NewsFlash
July 29, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
Bush is an idiot. His loyal klan is even worse. He said let’s thrill and his followers thought he said let’s drill. What a bunch of maroons.
By RW-(the original)
July 29, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this
He has a theory that actually trumps Darwin’s
Wrong again Blowhard. I’ve never once argued the point from the perspective of any alternate theory. Only from the point that the more Paleontologists look the less they find and that your whacked out evolutionary biologists can only come with explanations like punctuated equilibrium.
Until one of you moonbats plants another Piltdown Man anyway.
Did you know that most periods of global warming are followed by the appearance of lots of new species? Maybe we need global warming for your evolution to take place, yet you want to prevent it. How non progressive of you.
By Frederick Douglass
July 29, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this
If it’s an irrefutable fact that only black elected officials screw up everything they’re in charge of, then who knew Dubya was a black guy?
By Frederick Douglass
July 29, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
If it’s an irrefutable fact that only black elected officials screw up everything they’re in charge of, then who knew Dubya was a black guy?
By AJC/DNC Management
July 29, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this
Aahh, yes, I see that the blog toadies are croaking at me, again.
RW: You would think in the face of the overwhelming evidence, plummeting global temperatures, growing masses of ice, diminished solar activity, that thee environmental terrorists would at least review the obvious facts, but no, these goons just drive on undeterred.
By Frederick Douglass
July 29, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this
If it’s an irrefutable fact that only black elected officials screw up everything they’re in charge of, then who knew Dubya was a black guy?
By AJC/DNC Management
July 29, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this
Oops, slip of thee mouse:
Aahh, yes, I see that the blog toadies are croaking at me, again.
RW: You would think in the face of the overwhelming evidence, plummeting global temperatures, growing masses of ice, diminished solar activity, that thee environmental terrorists would at least review the obvious facts, but no, these goons just drive on undeterred.
Just like any prehistoric fanatical caveman worth his salt would.
And if anyone can look and see that the oceans are not bursting from forth from their beaches or have they even risen 1 tenth of an inch nor have we had more hurricanes, we are all still waiting for the thermometer to rise, if all these things are so apparent but yet so ignored, why would you believe anything that a left wing dimwitocrat has to say?
Like, uh, evolution for instance.
By RW-(the original)
July 29, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this
AJC/DNC-M,
What I marvel at most is their undevoted faith in things like man made global warming and Darwinian evolution explaining our existence, without a shred of hard evidence, yet they simultaneously scoff at people of faith.
By AJC/DNC Management
July 30, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this
“Change” that you can count on:
Mass. closer to letting out-of-state gays wed- “Sometimes what you hope and pray for actually happens, which is kind of overwhelming,” Michael Thorne, 55, of Cape Elizabeth, Maine, said after telling his 6-year-old son his parents could soon get married. Thorne and his partner of 25 years, James Theberge, have an Aug. 18 wedding planned in Provincetown.-Urinal/ SickoTimes
So the kid was a butt baby?
Freaks.
~~~~~
Aahhh, yes, “Paul Revere” rides again:
Iraqis begin Diyala offensive- Military officers, both Iraqi and American, said that insurgents had probably fled the area after news media reports that the sweep was due to begin soon.-Urinal/PMS
“Thee surge is coming, thee surge is coming!”
Another chapter in the pinko folk lore, complete with a happy cut and run ending.
~~~~~
Aahhh, yes, thee Doom and Gloom understands biology, go figure:
U.S. official: Iraqis needing clean water –Urinal/DNC
You reckon?
What, are we taking summer school courses?
~~~~~
Wanna know why I don’t pay much mind to polls?:
Consider that mid-June poll by Newsweek that thrilled Democrats by showing Obama with a whopping 15-point lead. Newsweek’s sample of registered voters showed only 23 percent identified themselves as Republican compared to 38 percent who said they were Democrat, a skew unmatched by other polls.
What happens if the polls should shift the other way? What fate befalls the frontrunner who falls behind? Just ask that formerly “inevitable” nominee, Bruno Clinton.
How many “inevitable” candidates can the dimwitocrats have in one election?
~~~~~
Thee misconceptions:
Now that the conservatives have “smashed the welfare state,” why is it that spending on Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid is at record levels for each program, the highest in history, with the three programs now slated to lead over the next 35 years to the Federal government doubling in size relative to the economy (GDP)? Having rolled back the War on Poverty, why are we still spending close to $700 billion each year on means-tested welfare programs, more than we spend on national defense? Add up Federal, state and local spending on education, and you will find that total is higher than spending on national defense as well, at record levels, higher than ever.
~~~~~
We are gleefully told of a poll, for instance, in which Obama was the presidential choice of 52% of a whopping 6,256 Europeans and Russians; as if that should somehow matter to a people whose ancestors fled the intrigue and “foreign entanglements” of Europe to build a nation where success was to be the reward for hard work and not simply bestowed by entitlement.
Remember the Declaration of Independence?
Or were you even taught about it in public school hovel?
By BFKaJ
July 30, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this
Dear AJC/DNC, I did some research in your style this morning, will present my results when Jim publishes his new essay. I think you will be amused by my argument.
By AJC/DNC Management
July 30, 2008 8:32 AM | Link to this
BFKaJ:
GFY (good for you.)
By SFTruman
August 1, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
So it is the employee’s pension that is killing Atlanta. It’s not the political corruption, the housing projects and overall welfare state. It’s not the citizens dialing 911 every time the wind blows driving up cost of services. It’s the employee’s fault? Do you really think there are enough employees working for Atlanta to control the elections process? Let me give you some advice on maintaining employees since you don’t have a clue. You will either pay the money all in salary or some salary with benefits. If you are paid all salary it is yours to keep. If you take salary and benefits you have to live long enough to collect the benefits. If you die the City keeps it. One is guaranteed one is not. The responsibility for the problems in Atlanta falls directly on the Citizens in Atlanta. They elected the politicians and they are the ones who demand every increasing City services. If you have a problem with the way Atlanta is run then get off your butt, move to Atlanta try to get elected and change the game. If not shut up and sit down because I am sick and tired of hearing employees take the blame for the problems created by the increased demands of the Citizens.
By SFTruman
August 1, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
So it is the employee’s pension that is killing Atlanta. It’s not the political corruption, the housing projects and overall welfare state. It’s not the citizens dialing 911 every time the wind blows driving up cost of services. It’s the employee’s fault? Do you really think there are enough employees working for Atlanta to control the elections process? Let me give you some advice on maintaining employees since you don’t have a clue. You will either pay the money all in salary or some salary with benefits. If you are paid all salary it is yours to keep. If you take salary and benefits you have to live long enough to collect the benefits. If you die the City keeps it. One is guaranteed one is not. The responsibility for the problems in Atlanta falls directly on the Citizens in Atlanta. They elected the politicians and they are the ones who demand every increasing City services. If you have a problem with the way Atlanta is run then get off your butt, move to Atlanta try to get elected and change the game. If not shut up and sit down because I am sick and tired of hearing employees take the blame for the problems created by the increased demands of the Citizens.
By GOPs got to go
August 4, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this
I have heard enough about the experience needed for the Presidency. There has been a President with as little, or possibly less, political experience as Senator Obama, a President who led this Country in the time of greatest difficulty, Abraham Lincoln. You see it can be done, and done well.
I want to hear what the man has to say, not what is said or insinuated about him in some juvenile ad.
By GOPs got to go
August 4, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
RW and Management,
Thanks for making me LOL. I think you 2 are the living proof of Darwin’s theory. Don’t scuff those knuckles up too bad while moving about.