Home > Thinking Right > Archives > 2008 > July > 09 > Entry
Obama a flip-flopper? Shut your mouth.
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
AJC cartoonist Mike Luckovich, reflecting the angst of Democrats — or at least those who dominate the primary election process — has Barack Obama standing out of a hole in the ground against the outline of the earth. The Demo donkey expresses alarm: “So where do you think you’re going?” the donkey asks. The cartoon is entitled “Journey to the Center of the Electorate.”
As usual, Mike captures the mood of the Democratic base which is, indeed, quite alarmed that Obama may be veering from la-la land, from the Planet of the Extreme, closer to the mainstream of public opinion, to, gasp, electability.
Obama took pains Tuesday in Cobb County to calm the fears of those on the fringe — rejecting claims, for example, that his views on an arbitrary withdrawal date from Iraq, and on other litmus test issues for the Left, are softening. Last week he’d said he might “refine” his views based on conversations with commanders and with facts on the ground.
When asked about that at McEachern High School, Obama said he has consistently argued that “once we were in, we had to be as careful getting out as we were careless getting in.” Is that the same as a 16-month deadline for surrender/withdrawal? Presumably, but one should not expect to pin the messiah. Obama said his position has been for a “phased withdrawal, a phased redeployment.”
Anybody who thinks he has moderated positions, he said, has not been paying attention. He rejected “this whole notion that I am shifting to the center or that I’m flip-flopping on this or that.”
“You know,” said Obama, “the people who say this apparently haven’t been listening to me.”
Ah, but they have. That’s one of the problems Obama has as he seeks to find the mainstream. The constituencies and interest groups that dominate the primary selection process, have been listening. They know the code. When Obama suggests that he might refine his position based on reality and on the country’s actual national security interests, the anti-war base freaks, pulling in others from the fringe.
The plain fact is that most of those on the left never wanted war for any reason, primarily because they saw it as a distraction, and a money diversion, from efforts to create new domestic entitlements like HillaryCare. They’ve been seething for seven years, growing more and more embittered with every troop deployment, that they are being delayed from their true mission in life by George W. Bush and the war in Iraq.
So, yes, Obama must “flip-flop” when he has taken positions, like those on Iraq and on taxes, that enabled him to sail through the nominating process, but are sure defeat in November.
And, by the way, pause today to salute Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. They’ve taken Congress to 9 percent approval ratings, lowest in history. Surely the kinder and gentler George Bush will act in the national interest and allow the two of them to be photographed with him in a effort to raise their approval rating and to restore confidence in national government. It would be the post-partisan thing to do.





DEL.ICIO.US
Comments
By Get Real
July 9, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this
The plain fact is that most of those on the left never wanted war for any reason, primarily because they saw it as a distraction, and a money diversion, from efforts to create new domestic entitlements like HillaryCare.
There you go again Wooten, spewing garbage and lies. Do you honestly believe any democrats had a notion that Bush would implement an entitlement program like HillaryCare?? You have no integrity at all, but I guess this is a good way to make a living. The distraction and money diversion of Iraq has kept us from capturing Osama bin Laden. Remember him? The person who orchestrated the acts of 9/11, whom we still haven’t caught. And the looks of it have stopped looking for. Its been proven that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11 so why are we there? There are plenty other evil dictators in the world, do you expect us to circle the globe playing cop forever? You and other Republicans would be screaming from the mountaintops if Gore had not gotten OBL in 7 years of being President.
I hope you’re able to look at yourself in the mirror in your waning years. A true journalist wouldn’t write this crap to insight ideological debate, and then just sit back and watch. You’re an embarassment.
By Saxby Screws Ga
July 9, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this
Jim you left our bunch of RHINO out of the 9% club. Saxby Special Interest Chambliss has certainly done his part to earn that rating.. He has been voting with the Reid/Pelosi block on important items like over ridding President Bush’s veto of the $60,000,000,000 of waste in the farm bill…
By Road Scholar
July 9, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this
First, Andy must be asleep!
It’s not that the monies spent in Iraq could have gone to HillaryCare, as you put it, but how about to our crumbling infrastructure? How does both candidates expect to deal with that? This would also promote jobs and the economy.
Alternate energy? Tax breaks for those who invent, buy, install etc solar and wind products. Check out Germany’s plan and results!
The government should not provide healthcare, but it can negotiate prices based on different plan contents for the masses.
By Tom Ga Hunter
July 9, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this
Can’t wait for this election is over,, only bad & worse choices…Why don’t we have a good choice to vote for.
By Whatever
July 9, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this
Wooten’s a chump!
By TW
July 9, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this
McCain defended “privatizing” Social Security. Now he says he’s against privatization (though he actually still supports it.) Wait, I’m not done with the last two weeks yet….
McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn’t.
By Mrs. Godzilla
July 9, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this
Wooten, as always, writes from his own rather limited perspective. I suspect he keeps his left eye closed so he can only see right.
Steve Benen of The Carpetbagger report writes:
“In fact, one of the great ironies of the last couple of weeks is that there’s been hysterical cries about Obama “moving to the middle” without him really moving much at all. In some ways, this is actually the best of all possible worlds — voters (most of whom consider themselves moderates) are being told that Obama is angering liberals by campaigning as a centrist, while at the same time, Obama is just about as progressive as he was before. In this sense, Obama is getting credit for moderation without really having to moderate. It’s disappointing to read a sloppy attack like Herbert’s, but in the big picture, maybe that’s a good thing for voters who think Obama’s “too liberal” to hear.”
Conservative Andrew Sullivan writes:
“I’m relieved that he has shifted exactly as I hoped he would: to a pragmatic commitment to a withdrawal strategy that does not jeopardize the fragile and reversible gains of the last year or so. I don’t see this as a U-turn, any more than I regard my own attempt to understand the situation in Iraq as best I can and to remain open to good, as well as bad, developments as some kind of flaw. Very few people foresaw the extent of the gains we have made this past year, in part because a new counter-insurgency had the luck to coincide with some real shifts among Sunni tribes and the Sadrite opposition. But facts change. Shouldn’t tactical policy respond? I would never have felt that Obama would be a good president if I felt he’d stick to a position on an issue irrespective of empirical data. As long as the goal is total withdrawal from Iraq as soon as possible, and the man doing it has the vital characteristic of having opposed the war in the first place, I’m fine with pragmatism. Any conservative should be.”
Perhaps Wooten should more carefully review the Rasmussen poll and that 9% congressional approval number….it isn’t true
DANIEL LIBIT at Politico in his piece titled “Single digit approval? Not exactly” writes;
““A new national survey out today puts congressional approval in the single digits, at 9 percent,” Putnam told reporters gathered for a pen-and-paper session. “At the rate we are going now, gas prices and congressional approval should cross paths any day now.”
The only catch: The news wasn’t exactly the news….
Congressional approval ratings are low and getting lower, but the Rasmussen Reports poll numbers that had Drudge breaking, Freedom’s Watch blasting and Putnam bludgeoning Tuesday weren’t really congressional approval ratings, even if Rasmussen’s own headline described them as such.
Rasmussen didn’t ask respondents whether they approved or disapproved of Congress; it asked respondents to rank Congress’ job performance as excellent, good, fair or poor.”
Link to the entire article here
By Mrs. Godzilla
July 9, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this
* BRAVO TW*
By Get Real
July 9, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this
Nice work TW. I’d like to see how Republicans on here defend that. They probably won’t, just will say how bad Obama is.
By BFKaJ
July 9, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this
Good morning all. There are good flip-floppers and there are bad flip-floppers. The bad ones are those who move from an intelligent conservative position to a “populist” stand, extolling the virtues of big government for example. The good flip-floppers are those who come to realize the foolishness of a leftist perspective, and embrace a conservative view. That is the way I look at neo-conservatives. Perhaps it is time to question -seriously – whether Obama is now repudiating his prior positions.
I had no trouble hearing and understanding his view on Iraq just a couple of months ago, when a time table for withdrawal was independent of success or failure, of military agreement, or of political “progress” in Iraq. There is no question that he now totally rejects his prior “unconditional surrender” perspective. I do not criticize those who learn from past mistakes. If he is half as smart as his handlers claim he is, he will be fully embracing the Bush Iraq policy generally, and the McCain surge specifically, within mere weeks.
I had no trouble hearing and understanding his view that NAFTA was a singular mistake of the Clinton administration, and that he would wish to reopen negotiations – a position reasonably opposed by our allies. I know that Obama’s intellectual limitations on matters economic are indistinguishable from those of my reluctantly-embraced candidate, Mr. McCain. Obama’s more recent elucidations on the virtues of free trade are obviously inconsistent with his primary season pandering to the flat-earth mugwumps in his party. I do not criticize those who learn from past mistakes. If he is half as smart as his handlers claim he is, he will be fully embracing the republican perspective on trade generally. Funny, it used to be that free trade was bi-partisan; perhaps we can credit Obama with learning the Reaganesque worldview, that a rising tide lifts all boats. Certainly any dispassionate observer understands that the only Clintonian economic initiative calculated to have a beneficial effect in the 1990s was NAFTA, and perhaps Obama is smart enough to learn from history.
I had no trouble interpreting Obama’s declared hostility in principle to indemnification for telecommunication companies that cooperated with government employees engaged in the antiterrorist work. When he voted a couple of weeks ago to support President Bush’s request for legislation to so-indemnify those who cooperate with anti-terrorist work, he proved his capacity to overcome the democrats 9/10 mentality. I do not criticize those who learn from past mistakes. If he is half as smart as his handlers claim he is, he will be fully embracing the Bush anti-terrorist policy generally, and rejecting the Clintonian “prosecute them only after they commit crimes” mentality.
I had no trouble interpreting Obama’s vote against Chief Justice Roberts, in the senate roll call. All rational people appreciate the genius of the Chief Justice. Unpopular cases such as the Kelo “condemnation for private use”, Bomedianne “habeas corpus for illegal combatants”, and the child rapist case prove the virtues of conservative justices over their less rational leftist counterparts in the majority. Obama – no fool – joined the condemnation of the lunatic “child rapist” ruling, and perhaps he is now ready to acknowledge his error in opposing Chief Justice Roberts. He is only a small step away from joining John McCain’s pledge to appoint only conservative justices.
The only problem facing America is cynicism. I now see hope in Obama, where there was none before.
By BFKaJ
July 9, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this
Dear Mrs. Godzilla @ 9:05, where did you ever get the idea that Andrew Sullivan is/was a conservative? You must be kidding. Joe Biden is more conservative than Andrew Sullivan.
By Cotton Gin Rummy
July 9, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this
I knew I could get Wooten to cry flip flop, last election’s mantra, and now an obsolete and impotent campaign slogan.
Flip Flop was the sound of fraudulently programmed Diebold machine’s miscounts and bush’s second term. Flip Flop was the sound of swiftboats, and american highways crumbling.
Flip Flop was the sound of Katrina Victims treading water (swiftboatless?), and conservative mercenaries firing into Katrina refugees on that damnable bridge to protect the upscale shopping districts. (where’s the journalistic scrupulosity on that incident? You really think people are that stupid, dont you?)
Flip Flop was the sound of Cheney’s ingenious geo-political strategy.
So, all I had to do was bait Wootie and the blowfish. With one post, people. One. Post.
What a fall guy. What a maroon.
Wootie and the blowfish. I love it.
By BFKaJ
July 9, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
Dear GetReal @ 9:11, guess my first paragraph destroyed your surmise, didn’t it?
By James Winslo
July 9, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
Obama is a Trojan Donkey !
By Copyleft
July 9, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this
Well, it’s certainly useful to compare Obama’s stand on the issues to that bastion of consistency and steadfast determination, the Republican’s man of the year, John…
John…
Hey, WHAT was your guy’s name again? You know, the guy you never talk about? Yeah, the support for him is HUGE. Simply HUGE.
By Peter
July 9, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this
Hey Whooten where is Bin Ladden ?
Talk about the Ultimate Flip Flop……..
How about BUSH attacking another country after 911, and letting Bin Ladden go FREE…..
Where did he learn to be a flip flopper………. from his dad………. another flip flopper….
“RAED MY LIPS I WON’T RAISE TAXES”
HA HA HA………… and McCain………
WOW here is a guy who changes with the seasons!
By Peter
July 9, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this
McCain dumped his wife for his Mistress…….
Is there a BIGGER Flip Flop than that Jim ?
By lava
July 9, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
TW u go boy!!!Wooten’s historian JBMLAW is still asleep at the club so we wont hear a reply any time soon. But good job of digging an cleaning up the senile veterans’ long pile of trash………and contrasting that with the imaginary flip-flops of President Obama.
By Walking Tall
July 9, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
After yesterday’s hate fest by the pathetic left here, I hope there will be more to come this week. It’s great showing everyone what the pathetic modern left is made up of. Keep it up folks!
Here’s a bet: if/when Israel attacks Iran’s nuclear program towards the end of this year, and Iran retaliates setting off a massive war in which the US will be forced into, the Democrats will blame Bush. Yep, those same Democrats who say we should sit back and do nothing like we are doing right now. If, on the other hand, Iran strikes first instead, and that’s a possibility too, these same Democrats will still say it’s Bush’s fault for antagonizing them and supporting the “Zionist” regime, because as we all know, many Democrats hate Israel, just like their moron constituents that infest this blog. Never mind that everyone ignored Iran’s promise of Israel’s time being limited on this planet and will be wiped off the map.
Who cares about Obamania. He’s nothing but a Neocomm. Any group of mindless sheep that faint at the very sight of this man that they follow has absolutely zero for me to listen to or pay attention to.
McCain 2008
Obama’s lack of understanding exposed again
Gee, ya THINK??? That’s what you get when the media picks one of the candidates to run for President and the idiot non-thinkers (Democrats and Liberals) follow.
By jasper
July 9, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
Obama can flip flop like a fish out of water, because that’s just what he is when it comes to courting the independent vote. We are indepedents because we don’t want to be affiliated with the quagmire that is our two-party system. And we also want to be independent from our Federal goverment, i.e. self reliant.
Any candidate running on the platform of more taxation and more government programs has precluded himself from the independent vote. McCain is no prize either, but he has at least some record of being against pork spending. That’s worth 4 years to see if he can shrink the monster. If he doesn’t, then Obama will have 4 more years of demagoguery under his belt and we can all develop a taste for government cheese.
By Mrs. Godzilla
July 9, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this
By BFKaJ July 9, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this Dear Mrs. Godzilla @ 9:05, where did you ever get the idea that Andrew Sullivan is/was a conservative? You must be kidding. Joe Biden is more conservative than Andrew Sullivan.
Dear BFKaJ
Why in heavens name would I waste my time kidding YOU?
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with his work?
The Conservative Soul: How We Lost It, How to Get It Back (HarperCollins, 2006)
I assume the fact that he is openly gay would not be the reason you question his conservative bona fides.
There are some conservatives - hold on to something, you may consider this blasphemy - that are not extreme radical righties.
You are familiar with the Log Cabin Republicans and the Green Elephants are you not?
There is a rather broad spectrum to conservatism, just as there is to liberalism.
By Redneck Convert
July 9, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this
Well, daggummit! No sooner do we beat up on the pointy-headed libruls for wanting a deadline for getting out of Iraq than them Iraqis want a deadline too. I guess we’ll have to fight the Iraqis as well as the libruls just to get to stay there 100 years or so. Its hard enough to fight the terrists. Now we got to fight the people we are suppose to be pertecking. You can’t even have a good war these days without somebody wanting to mess it up.
Anyhow, looks like we need another army in Iraq to perteck us from the Sunnys and the Sh*ts in the guvment while we are fighting the terrists.
I see old man McCain and this Obama will be making their convention speeches on NFL football nites when every good redneck will be watching football. Nobody will be watching those two, so McCain will win on account of nobody will see him stumbling over reading his speech against that lime green background. Even God is a NFL fan.
Have a good day everybody and pray them Iraqis don’t go to war to try to kick us out. And after all we done for them.
By Get Real
July 9, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this
BFKaJ, not really. Obama has ALWAYS contended that we must be as careful getting into Iraq as we were careless getting in. He’s said that ad nauseum, and even said so in his speech announcing he would run for President. Thats not a flip flop. As I plan to vote for Obama, I do believe that he has flip flopped on FISA. Saying he would filibuster it, and now will let the bill pass. So I believe in my case voting for him is not necessarily drinking the kool-aid. Theres only so much a President can do, the problem with that is Bush has done ‘so much’ for corporations and big business to the detriment of the American citizenry. At this point, anyone that believes Republicans have earned the right to remain in power are fooling themselves. Obama ain’t perfect, but he’s far better than McCain would be in office.
By Cotton Gin Rummy
July 9, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
Seriously, the Left’s poll pleasing withdrawal slogan served them well. BUT, I have copiously blogged about how we can never leave Iraq, and I knew that a Democratic candidate would have to modify any withdrawal terms.
We cant leave Iraq ever. It’s obvious. Why would we? We’ll need 100K troops there for 100 years, and not even 100 surrender monkeys campaigning in 100 states for 100 years can change that.
So, McCain has finally decided he’s against his own immigration bill that he introduced, and Obama knows that he has to phase a withdrawal on a timetable that is like baseball’s unending extra innings.
Obama 08: He listens. He acts. We benefit.
McCain 08: He listens. He misunderstands. He asks U to repeat the question.
One thing is certain. Obama/Hillary 08. The way this is shaping up, Obama cant win without Hillary, but the dream ticket will trounce McCain.
thats4sure, that’s4dangsure.
By Janine
July 9, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
Ok, Mr. Wooten…*It’s time to admit and address exactly why so many Americans are attracted to this man….Obama…who has risen to the top and attained STAR STATUS, seemingly without credentials, without experience, without significant contributions,without many of the attributes that are associated with successful candidates..[although I realize there are others in history who have attained the presidency without much more and actually done a pretty good job on many fronts.]
Got any ideas???
By Peter
July 9, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
WOW Jim and all the Rights wingers are SCARED !
GOP worries spilled into the open in June when McCain’s prime-time speech was criticized for its poor visuals and negative message, compared with Sen. Barack Obama’s address before a raucous crowd in St. Paul, Minnesota, when he proclaimed that he had secured the Democratic nomination for president.
A green backdrop for McCain was especially targeted for derision.
“Almost every Republican I’ve talked to is alarmed that the McCain campaign doesn’t seem up to the task of electing John McCain,” conservative New York Times columnist William Kristol later wrote.
Here you have it JIM………..you better get the spam machine going !
By zeke
July 9, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this
Obama is just following his heroes, Lenin, Mao, Fidel, Adolf, Benito and Hulio!! Lie to the masses and let them believe you are all for them, then destroy them all after they put you in power! Wake up voters! These socialist only want to control your lives to their benefit!!
By zeke
July 9, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this
Obama is just following his heroes, Lenin, Mao, Fidel, Adolf, Benito and Hugo!! Lie to the masses and let them believe you are all for them, then destroy them all after they put you in power! Wake up voters! These socialist only want to control your lives to their benefit!!
By The good side
July 9, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this
Good Morning All,
I am voting for TW.
I want MR. Wooten fired so writing weak columns every day.
Also if any conservative/pretending to be a christain/masqrading as an American writes on this blog about Mr. Obama flip flopping after reading the information TW just drop on us we will deport you to ANWAR!
By Peter
July 9, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this
Here is the REAL FLIP FLOPPER JIM………
“He’s started to compromise his own brand … in this year when the Republican brand is so damaged, having a nominee like McCain with a maverick reputation is absolutely crucial. And to the extent that he loses that reputation, is seen as a cookie-cutter Republican, just a George Bush Republican, then his campaign is in trouble and his party’s in trouble,” said Stu Rothenberg of The Rothenberg Report.
McCain was the anti-Republican, the guy who broke with party orthodoxy — opposing President Bush’s tax cuts, opposing offshore drilling and bucking the party line on immigration reform.
Now he’s mouthing standard Republican talking points on all of these issues — agreeing on the president’s tax cuts, supporting offshore drilling and touting his border-focused immigration plan.
Gee Jim they are writing today about McCain being a Flip Flopper…….go read the news JIM !
By Fred Flintstone
July 9, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
At the same time, Bush has often said he would go along with the Iraqi government’s wishes. “It’s their government’s choice,” Bush said in May 2007. “If they were to say, ‘Leave,’ we would leave.”
By South GA Man
July 9, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
Where is jbmlaw? I miss his blogging. Will he be back?
By ron
July 9, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
Good morning all,Candidates filp flop to gain votes.They don’t have positions,they have wind socks.
Janine,perhaps this will explain Obama’s popularity.In the great septic tank of life,the big chunks have a tendency to rise to the top.
McCain can have more filip flops than Obama.He’s been around a lot longer.
Iraq’s number one wants us to flip flop along out of Iraq.We now move to Afghanistan while the bad guys filter back into Iraq.
To clarify Obama’s position on the military,we need a picture of him riding in a tank,wearing a helmet with the chin strap undone.
Iran’s playing war games.It used to be saber rattling,now it’s missle munching.
Redneck,How’s the bride?
By Dusty
July 9, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
Oh Jim Wooten,
Great commentary this morning. You have kept your powder dry and now are blasting away at the fawning and the foolish. It is a sight worth beholding!
And jbmlaw is the best flipflop explainer that I have read in a long time. But watch it, jbm. You are making Obama look too good.
Zeke could be right. Obama may be a Trojan horse who will erupt after he is elected and slay us with his mighty socialistic sword. Bad thought there!!
Anyway I am sticking with the honest, the honorable, the straight forward and the experienced. McCain 2008
I won’t be around much today. Keep the enlightenment fires BURNING!!!
By The good side
July 9, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this
I wonder what Mr.McClain is going to say now that Iraq wants to give us a timetable to exit the country.
We are dummies! We have liberate the Iraqis and now they want to kick the US out quickly. I bet they will not pay back the debt they owe us. Mr. Wooten can you write about that!
By the way we cannot talk about Mr. McClain many flip-flops because he is a decorated war veteran!
By BFKaJ
July 9, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this
Dear Lava @ 9:28, my first paragraph destroyed TW’s issue. There are good “flip-floppers” and there are bad “flip-floppers.” Both McCain and Obama are repudiating their prior leftist views, so that makes both “good.” I celebrate the prodigals, who realize the superiority of the conservative ideology. And I can do that in my sleep.
By Kilroy
July 9, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
Since the Hilliary-ites are voting McCain to spite Obama, I’m voting Nader to spite them both. If the Nader-ites need to spite someone they can always vote for Obama. The…circle…of political life!
By jasper
July 9, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
Janine - I got your ideas hanging.
The mainstream media is 95% liberal and we live in a pop culture. If the voting age were 10, we’d be talking about the pink states for Hannah Montana. Wouldn’t you love to see the Obama/Montana debate. They could wear costumes and it would be so cute. You college kids would really be torn.
By BFKaJ
July 9, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this
Dear Mrs. Godzilla @ 9:38, I agree that homosexuality is not a bar to effective conservative advocacy – indeed, our homosexual brethren have greater need for protection from government overreach than do those with traditional sexual appetites. No, my dispute with Mr. Sullivan is purely ideological, that his form of “conservatism” has little to do with reining in government excess or promoting freedom from government. He endorsed destruction of the Islamists only until around the first of October, 2001 – not exactly a stalwart. The mere fact that one proclaims himself a “conservative” does not mean he is one, and of course I am the only one competent to judge.
By El Kabong
July 9, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this
It was 2 generations ago that Chairman Mao held up one finger, then two, when he asked Nixon how many generations of peace there’d be between China and the West.
Mao was being dramatic because only a generation before, he had to face down a nuclear attack proposal from MacArthur, for which Mac was fired.
Mao at least knew we weren’t mad men, yet he didn’t believe in lasting peace.
Thus Iraq’s Malaki must posit how many generations of Iraqis will live in peace if US troops leave, as he insists we must.
Malaki is being dramatic because it’s politically expedient for him to posture withdrawal. After all, there are sunnis, shias, and kurds listening to every word he sez. Political Power in Iraq would be squandered by kissing uncle sam’s boots (on the ground, even).
However, everybody in the whole wide world, except the shia, sunnis, and kurds know that the US can never leave. Only a fool would let the fumes vent naturally in that gas tank. One spark and………
So expect real hostility from the Iraq President as we near the election and the whole world watches. We can withdraw 30K troops in a photo-op appeasement to malaki, and redeploy them in Afghanistan and buy some time.
But eventually, if they want to stay in power, the sunni and shia tribal leaders will become more forceful in demanding US troop withdrawals.
Thus I’m saying that Iraq will be a war zone for 100 years. Lets invade another country that didn’t do 911, this one being so much fun and all. I think we have to know just how many surrender monkeys there are in this country, and the only way to flush them out is to invade Iran, Syria, Lebanon, and Pakistan.
Support the troops. Tie a yellow ribbon round the old oak tree. Sport a bumper sticker. Go shopping. rename your fries.
Obama 08: It’s about change, and isn’t it about time?
By Mrs. Godzilla
July 9, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
The Good Side
According to the Washington Post
“On Tuesday, McCain’s campaign declined to respond directly to the question of whether he now supports the idea of setting a date for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from the country.
Speaking on MSNBC Tuesday morning, McCain said that “The fact is that we and the Iraqis will deal in what is in the national security interests of both countries. And there is no reason to assume that the Iraqis aren’t going to act in what they perceive as their national interest. I believe we will enact ours and I believe we will all come home.”
By aggressively witty
July 9, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
Jim Wooten lost all credibilty when he stated Obama “sailed through the nomination process” Not sure what democratic nomination contest Jim was watching but “sail” is not the word that would describe such a hotly contested race.
By itsme
July 9, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
What do you expect? He’s a POLITICIAN, trying to get ELECTED.
By BFKaJ
July 9, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
Dear South GA Man @ 9:59, I am flattered, thanks. I changed my blog handle. I found too many of our leftist friends were focused on the credentials of the arguer rather than the substance of the argument. I desire intelligent exchange such as we derive from friends Southern Democrat and Shar and jm and Midsouth Philosopher, not a debate on whose credentials are bigger than whose. I briefly changed my name to something like “Neocon Chimpy Halliburton Warmonger” but I found that by thus eliminating all of the leftist epithets nobody was willing to engage my arguments. Our friend Shar then suggested the Blogger Formerly Known as Jbmlaw, thus the new contraction. I am still an attorney licensed in three states - nothing has changed in my life except my online name.
By LP
July 9, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this
TW, you forgot the honored war hero’s flip flop when it comes to efforts to expand the GI Bill. He claims that “we” passed the bill, but not only did McCain (and Bush) openly criticize the bill and fear it might “hurt the military,” but he also failed to show up to vote for it — something that all Democrats (including his equally busy competition for the WH) and most Republicans managed to do.
By Abomi Nation
July 9, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
How can Obama be a flip flopper?
For the past six months the folks on the right have been claiming that the only thing Obama has talked about is change. Change , change change. No substance, no stance on the issues, just change.
Now all of the sudden Obama has flip-flopped on numerous issues? How is that possible?
By Spellcheck
July 9, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
Conservatism is dead. Stalwart GOP stall wart Sen. Craig sounded taps, with his flag at halfmast.
Obama 08: He doesn’t tap dance around issues. He the real straight talker.
McCain 08: Flippity Floppity Floo!
By Pat
July 9, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
I am a conservative, and I will be holding my nose while voting for McCain. I shudder to think of the economy if Obama is elected. Higher taxes on the upper incomes mean fewer jobs and a slower economy. Bureaucratic red tape is never a good thing, so why do we need socialized health care. I personally don’t want to wait 3-6 months if I need an operation. I’ll end my rant here, but you Obamaniacs need to wake up and realize your candidate is a nightmare waiting to happen.
NO Experience.
NO Substance.
NOBama ‘08.
http://www.cafepress.com/NObamaforPres
By BFKaJ
July 9, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
For all who are confused by the Iraqi call for a “timetable,” the real story is less sexy, http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121555940908737365.html?mod=djemEditorialPage
Short answer - mostly for domestic consumption in Iraq.
By lava
July 9, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
my first paragraph destroyed,destroyed in ur sleep,i know, BFKaJ enjoy ur dreams.
By rene
July 9, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
Dear Whatever who posted at 9:02,
You dare call Mr. Wooten a “chump”. “Chump”? What’re you, boxing trainer in his ’80s or something? Shop steward of Local # 17 (Georgia Chapter), AFTRA, Council of Retired Actors who Played Pimps on ’70s Cop Shows (CRPPP7TC, Local 17, AFTRA, AFL-CIO)?
Chump?
What a Maroon!
By Lily Toad
July 9, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
Do you think maybe the reason Congress is getting such a low approval rating is because they are rolling over for the Bush administration, such as their approval of the FISA bill with retroactive immunity? And their continual funding of the war? When Congress got a Democratic majority, it was hoped that things would change, but nothing has. Start acting like Democrats and your ratings will rise!
By BFKaJ
July 9, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
Dear Dusty @ 10:09, I confess my hidden agenda. I think my argument validates Jim’s morning thesis, and yet makes the leftists queasy with the obvious validity of its analysis. They realize that they are now faced with voting for one who proclaims the virtue of conservative positions while generally voting leftist vs one who votes conservative most of the time while proclaiming the virtue of leftism. Since leftism is a “show” ideology, with no real intellectual foundation, the leftists are truly torn.
By lava
July 9, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
I am still a failed attorney licensed in three states wow
By Skeptic Tank
July 9, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
“(O)ne should not expect to pin the messiah.”
Oh, please, Mr. Wooten. After 5 years of questioning Bush as to his post-“mission accomplished” strategy, the most we’ve gotten out of the man was “stay the course”. If pinning a candidate or even a President is so overwhelmingly important to you, why oh why didn’t you apply the same criteria to a Republican?
You say Obama is the newly-anointed messiah. I say George W. is the old-guard pariah.
By Janine
July 9, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
OK Jasper …don’t know exactly what ” I got your ideas hanging.” means, but the media thing makes sense. Another thought…. Seems like people are just plain sick and tired of being sick and tired of Bush,his buddies , and their handling [or mishandling], and are ready to grasp anything or anybody who offers something different…with or without credentials and/or substance! Pitiful, isn’t it????
By lava
July 9, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
So the Iraqis want a timetable to withdraw US troops.Sounds like a political gift to Obama to me.They have more sense than Mccain who wants 100 years.Interesting!Mcacain’s anwer will be to ask for the 1st draw down in 2050 then the next in 2055 and so on…what a demented dummy……….
By Truthifier
July 9, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Jim, you’re really getting tiresome. Another day, another rant against Democrats. You couldn’t even resist making a dig at Hillary Clinton who has been out of the race for weeks now. Try spicing up your routine a bit.
By Roc
July 9, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
WHY IS IT THAT OUR POLITICIANS CAN’T EVER CHANGE THEIR MIND WITHOUT BEING A “FLIP-FLOPPER”? I WISH OUR MENTALLY-CHALLENGED PRESIDENT HAD THE SENSE TO ADMIT THAT HE WAS OFF THE MARK AND DIDN’T GO INTO IRAQ. THE SIGN OF A TRUE LEADER IS ONE THAT’S WILLING TO STAND UP AND SAY THINGS CHANGED, SO I RESPONDED BY SHIFTING MY POSITION. HECK - WE CAN CHANGE OUR MIND 6 TIMES ABOUT WHETHER WE WANT CHICKEN OR STEAK FOR DINNER, BUT WE DON’T EXPECT OUR LEADERS TO CHANGE THEIR STRATEGY ON ISSUES AS COMPLEX AS IRAQ AND AN ENERGY POLICY WHEN CONDITIONS CHANGE. LET’S NOT BE RETARDS HERE!!!
LET’S FOCUS ON WHETHER WE ARE HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. LET’S FOCUS ON WHO HAS THE JUDGEMENT TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE HEADED DOWN THE WRONG PATH AND THE WILLINGNESS TO HIT US WITH THE PAINFUL TRUTH AND SEND US IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. WE CAN’T SUPPORT A CHUMP THAT BELIEVES IN A GAS TAX HOLIDAY THAT WILL DECIMATE ROADWAY CONSTRUCTION, INCREASE CONSUMPTION OF GAS AND, THUS, INCREASE GAS PRICES (SIMPLE SUPPLY AND DEMAND).
DON’T LET THE MEDIA PULL THE WOOL OVER YOUR EYES PEOPLE AND MAKE A MOUNTAIN OUT OF A MOLE-HILL. IS IT THE BEST PLAN OF ACTION TO TALK TO THE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND IN IRAQ AND “REFINE” YOUR WITHDRAWAL PLAN? YES!!! CAN YOU SET A GOAL OF GETTING US OUT WITHIN 2 YEARS AND STILL “REFINE” YOUR PLAN? YES!!! THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH WORKING TOWARDS YOUR GOAL OF WITHDRAWAL, BUT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND. ITS WHAT A REASONABLE PERSON WOULD DO.
THE MORE IMPORTANT QUESTION IS ARE THE REPUBLICANS EVEN WORKING TOWARDS GETTING OUR TROOPS HOME? NO.
GO OBAMA IN ‘08!!!
BY THE WAY, IS OBAMA DIFFERENT FROM BUSH? YES. THERE’S YOUR CHANGE SILLY REPUBLICANS. PEOPLE KEEP TALKING ABOUT EXPERIENCE, BUT MCCAIN HAS HAD SEVERAL YEARS OF EXPERIENCE AND NOT DONE ONE THING TO KEEP US OUT OF THIS RUT THAT THE COUNTRY IS IN NOW. SHOW ME WHERE HE ACTUALLY WENT ON RECORD AGAINST THE IRAQ WAR. HE SUPPORTS THE BUSH TAX CUTS NOW. HE’S AGAINST GOVERNMENT OVERSIGHT OF FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS AND SUPPORTED A BANKRUPTCY REFORM BILL THAT’S PUNISHING THE EVERYDAY CITIZEN. NOT TO MENTION THE GAS TAX GIMMICK AND OFFSHORE DRILLING (THAT WILL PRODUCE MORE OIL FOR CHINA AND INDIA, NOT THE U.S.). IF THIS IS WHAT EXPERIENCE GETS US, YOU CAN HAVE IT!!!
By Lefty
July 9, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
“Get Real” is a typical left leaning liberal. He has his opinions and don’t want to hear yours. Typical.
By BFKaJ
July 9, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
Dear James @ 9:10, “Obama is a Trojan Donkey !” Better a Trojan Donkey than a Donkey Trojan.
By BFKaJ
July 9, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
Dear lava @ 10:45, “my first paragraph destroyed,destroyed in ur sleep,i know, BFKaJ enjoy ur dreams.” My affirmation applies only to the sentient beings in our audience. As to your mindless 10:47, it just eats you up that the intelligent people stand in opposition to your views, doesn’t it? That’s the compassionate reason I changed my blog handle, to not rub it in with every post.
By ###
July 9, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
Lily Toad at 10:47 you hit the nail on the head. I spend a lot of time in Washington talking with political types from both parties and can tell you that most of the posters on this site have absolutely no idea what they are talking about when they pontificate about the state of the nation’s government.
By Lung Dong
July 9, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
OOoooo Abomi Nation
Yu A cagey muddafu—a!
I love it!
By DebbieDoRight
July 9, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
Any group of mindless sheep that faint at the very sight of this man that they follow has absolutely zero for me to listen to or pay attention to.
Wow!! I never thought I’d see the day that you Repuglicans FINALLY admitted that to yourselves about Dumbya!!! I’m so proud of you!!! Remember, admitting the problem is the first step! Keep up the good work!!
By lava
July 9, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
you up that the intelligent people stand in opposition to your views, doesn’t it? do u count urself,seeing u are in the same company as myself,as being intelligent? What do u do for a living now????
By Whatever
July 9, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
rene @ 10:45, I called Wooten a chump because thats what he is. A chump! Would you rather me call him a republican hack who doesn’t have the scrupples to call out his own party when they’ve run the government so poorly? You’re probably older than me, w less education. But since I don’t know you, I won’t assume. You should do the same. And it’s ‘moron’ not maroon. Thats a color.
By Just Nasty and Mean
July 9, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
G’Mornin Jim, et al.
As yourself…Why is Obama modifying his positions?
Why has he dissed (“I could no more disown Rev. Wright…”)his former pastor?
Why is he modifying his 16 month Iraqi withdrawal commitment?
Why is he Changing his positions on a dozen or more issues since the end of the primary (after he limped across the finish line with a long string of defeats)?
It is because he is too liberal to get elected. His record is—- pure and simple—-TAX AND SPEND but he JUST CAN”T SAY IT.
Obama stands next in a long line of democratic candidates—-Humphrey, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton (who would have never been elected without Ross Perot), Gore, and Kerry that think putting Americans on the dole and ultimately obligated to the government is the way to perennial power for the democrats.
Obama’s flopping because history proves he is unelectable as a liberal.
He HAS to change his positions or he’ll be the next on the ash heap of oblivion the rest of the democrat candidates end up.
By DebbieDoRight
July 9, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
Dear SpellCheck: Don’t know if anyone else caught on to the Craig/Half Mast dig; but I’m gonna use it on this conservative right wing blog (other than this one), that I like to go on every now and then to harass the repugs!! (they probably won’t get it). Thanks for the great line I’m about to steal!!!
By Miss Congeniality
July 9, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
Oh BFKaJ,
you have made me laugh again. “Freedom from government” a conservative ideal?
Are you mad? Certainly you don’t mean the current conservative agenda? I would consider the infringement on our civil liberties, granted to us by the Bill of Rights as counter to this ideal.
The Bill of Rights, as I am sure you know as a lawyer, was granted to us to protect citizend from government intervention. However, the current administration has done all they can to take these away. Consider the 4th Amendement right to privacy. Warrentless Wire-taps are government intervention, are they not?
Can you show me one example of the current “conservative” administration endorsing the “freedom from government” ideal? I’ll warrant you cannot.
By Mrs. Godzilla
July 9, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
Hey Just Nasty and mean….
Please back up the following:
Why is he modifying his 16 month Iraqi withdrawal commitment? SHOW US THE MONEY QUOTE ON THIS ONE - LET’S SEE THE COMPARISON BETWEEN THEN AND NOW SHALL WE
Why is he Changing his positions on a dozen or more issues since the end of the primary LIST THE OVER TWELVE
If you cannot do this perhaps you should add an adjective to your moniker….
By Get Real
July 9, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
To Lefty @ 11:02, I’m an independent who vote for Kerry AND Isaakson in 2004. Neither one of those worked out. Whose opinions don’t I want to hear? I’ll listen and apply any reasonable, well- thought argument. In your case, if that means voting for McCain I’ll pass. His time passed in 2000, and he actually would’ve made a better President than Bush in hindsight, although thats not saying too much. If you look at my post @ 9:39 you’ll see i’m voting for Obama, but not with great fanfare.
You Republicans care so much about the 2nd Amendment, but are willing to let the 4th amendment go by the wayside. I thought you all preferred small government, and no one imposing on your private lives. Doesn’t that include the government wiretapping your phones, and looking at all your emails? Get your facts straight “Lefty”
By AJC/DNC Management
July 9, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
News that the Gloom and Doom will never tell you:
KABUL, Afghanistan — A U.S. Marines commander said Wednesday his troops have killed 400 insurgents in southern Afghanistan since late April. Col. Peter Petronzio, the commander of the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit, said the figure came from the governor of the southern Helmand province where his troops have been deployed since late April. Some 2,200 U.S. Marines moved into the town of Garmser in Helmand province to clean the area of insurgents.
News that the Doom and Gloom will tell you:
Worried about increasing insurgent attacks in Afghanistan, the U.S. military says it is sending extra air power there by shifting an aircraft carrier away from the Iraq war.-Urinal/DNC
So now we start the same cycle of BS liberal propaganda that we have just finished enduring in Iraq for the last 5 years, a fresh new enemy for the pinkos to support.
“Enjoy” it while you can, for soon enough, despite the screams of terror from the candy as-ses, the U.S. Armed Forces will wrap this up before you know it.
~~~~~
News that thee Gloom and Doom will tell you:
Iraq’s national security adviser said Tuesday that his government would not sign an agreement governing the future role of U.S. troops in Iraq unless it includes a timetable for their withdrawal. The statement was the strongest demand yet by a senior Iraqi official for the two governments to set specific dates for the departure of U.S. forces. Speaking to reporters in the holy Shiite city of Najaf, National Security Adviser Mowaffak al-Rubaie said his government was “impatiently waiting” for the complete withdrawal of U.S. troops. President Bush has said he opposes a timeline.
And then what the guy really said:
After that, the country’s security situation would be reviewed every six months, for three to five years, to decide when U.S.-led troops would pull out entirely, al-Adeeb said.
And what it really all means:
Mr. Maliki’s comments were also designed for domestic Iraqi political consumption – another sign of that country’s robust democratic debate. With elections scheduled for the autumn, Mr. Maliki wants to show he’s nobody’s pawn, especially not America’s. The Sadrists continue to play the nationalist card, even as they are themselves pawns of Iran. The rise of Iraqi nationalism is inevitable and largely welcome as a unifying national force. Remember all of those who said an Iraqi Shiite government would merely be a tool of Iran?
So why does the Urinal only report the negative stuff?
~~~~~
The next time the president goes to war, Congress should be consulted and vote on whether it agrees, according to a bipartisan study group chaired by former Secretaries of State James Baker III and Warren Christopher.-Urinal/PMS
Uh-huh:
“Iraq Resolution” and “Iraq War Resolution” are popular names for the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002,[1] a joint resolution (i.e. a law) passed by the United States Congress in October 2002 as Public Law No: 107-243, authorizing the Iraq War.
Since all the libs have abandoned their votes and the troops since then, I guess they think this^^ doesn’t exist anymore.
~~~~~
The pot calls the kettle a race baiter:
That tally of public foibles, by the way, doesn’t even touch on Jones’ divisive racial politics, which run counter to everything Obama stands for, blah, blah, blah. Jones plays the race card at every sign of opposition, insisting that criticism of him derives from an unfair double standard that denigrates powerful black men, blah, blah.-Queen Pinko, Urinal/DNC
Aahhh, yes, thee “evil” race card.
So I guess we won’t be seeing any Obambi campaign brochures with Queen Pinko on the cover.
~~~~~~
“Well, I not only have pledged not to raise their taxes, I’ve been the first candidate in this race to specifically say I would cut their taxes.” On The View Obambi likewise announced, “First of all, I don’t want higher taxes, I have to pay taxes, and it’s no fun. You know I think sometimes there’s this presumption that Democrats, we just love taxing people. No, I would prefer to keep taxes as low as possible.”
That sounds fairly promising. But the reality is different and McCain will need to bolster his communications effort to make sure voters understand that Obama voted to raise taxes 94 times and specifically to raise income taxes on those making as little as $31,850.
“Change” of positions you can count on! Er, or not count on, uh, I think.
~~~~~
Aahhh, yes, “Unity:”
Clinton donors and campaign officials say they remain surprised — and, among some, offended — that Obama has refused to ask his entire list of donors, more than 1.5 million people, to send $5, $10 or more to chip away at Clinton’s debt. (Obama officials said they did not want to distract their donors for the main task at hand, raising money to defeat McCain.)
“The Obama effort hasn’t yielded much, but we hope it will increase,” said Alan Patricof, a top Clinton fund-raiser and family friend.
By BFKaJ
July 9, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
Dear lava @ 11:20, I see I have been punked. Well done.
By Nick in Virginia
July 9, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Hey TW, you forgot one thing.
In 2000, at a fund-raising picnic, McCain put mustard and relish on his hotdog.
In 2004, at a similar picnic, McCain put ketchup on his hotdog.
Horrifying.
By Whatever
July 9, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
Nasty and Mean, isn’t cutting taxes and increased spending about the same thing as you Obama is? It creates inflation, job loss, and forces the government to cut other programs. Reducing taxes don’t solve all the problems, look at the one we’re in now.
Basic kitchen table economics: You can’t spend more money than you make.
Someone tell this to Bush and his REPUBLICAN friends that ran up record deficits. Obama is just rescinding the dumb tax cuts Bush implemented. Thats not raising taxes, and most people on this blog won’t be affected. The Right is pulling the wool over your eyes.
By jasper
July 9, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
Janinie - good point!
Bush bashing has become its own art form. Have to admit he’s an easy target. The problem is that partisan politics is out of control, and its a 3-ring circus with Republicans, Dems, and the media. They all need eachother to stay in power and deflect blame, and they are playing us like an old fiddle. We were sick of Nixon, then Carter, then Clinton and now Bush. There is something tragically silly about the whole process, and the leader of the free world is at stake.
We’re all ready for change, anxious for and about it, and inasmuch as I can appreciate the excitement for Obama and what he would symbolize for a lot of Americans, his liberalism scares the hell out of me. A more expensive and expansive goverment only exacerbates the current problems, bigger circus.
By hillbilly ragger
July 9, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
oh, jim….
And, by the way, pause today to salute Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. They’ve taken Congress to 9 percent approval ratings, lowest in history.
Do you actually bother to research the talking points you copy/paste from the likes of Drudge?
I called you out on Chambliss’ lie that you gleefully passed along, about “600,000” imaginary Georgians yesterday. Didn’t that embarrass you just a little tiny bit? I see you’ve still not seen fit to post a correction.
TW @ 9.02 already called you out on the “9 percent” figure, but maybe at this point we shouldn’t bother. If I see a number in one of your columns, I’ll just assume it’s made up and be pleasantly surprised when it isn’t.
By AJC/DNC Management
July 9, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
PSYCHIATRISTS have detected the first case of “climate change delusion” - and they haven’t even yet got to Kevin Rudd and his global warming guru. Writing in the Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry, Joshua Wolf and Robert Salo of our Royal Children’s Hospital say this delusion was a “previously unreported phenomenon”
Heck, I know where there are all kinds of delusional people, waiting for a climate “catastrophe.”
They even hope for one, hahaha, voluntary insanity.
By BFKaJ
July 9, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
Dear Miss Congeniality @ 11:29, you trip on your leftist mental block. “I would consider the infringement on our civil liberties, granted to us by the Bill of Rights as counter to this ideal.” You deceive to the extent you allege that the Bush administration infringes civil liberties of any other than alien Islamists. You leftists never cite a single such infringement of rights of an American citizen. The Constitution does not protect the world.
“The Bill of Rights, as I am sure you know as a lawyer, was granted to us to protect citizend from government intervention.” You err, but your error is endemic to your ideology. The Constitution does not grant any rights; it prohibits the government from infringing those rights that exist in nature, with a specificity from numbers two through eight. Until the left