Thinking Right

By BFKaJ

June 16, 2008 8:32 AM | Link to this

Good morning all. The question is whether we should judge a person by skin or by the content of character. Government compels us to consider skin – an attitude unchanged and indistinguishable from the Jim Crow days, except reversed. Most evil in our world is so-traceable to government compulsion, whatever is the proscription du jour. The ideal world is one without government-run behavior mod.

By TW

June 16, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

Like a child, today’s rightwinger passes on promoting their cause and instead spends the effort pointing a judgemental finger.

How about something on McCain’s amnesty, Jim? Or maybe a bit on his wife handling her drug addiction with such poise (minus the theft, etc.)? Or his leadership with the Keating Five?

Be proud of your boy, Jim. If he wins, we’ll get to keep the bouncy house in the White House!

By Eric

June 16, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

Jim,

I see you are Thinking Wrong as usual, stirring the pot to get all of your bigot friends to start their bigoted slurs. You are a bitter old man.

By Ray

June 16, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this

Govt giveaways have destroyed the desire to excel in much of the “affirmative action” community. Blacks make up nearly 13% of the UGA population but graduate less than 50% and then only after 6+ years in school. Affirmative action and race based preference are holdovers from the time when this type of program was needed to level the playing field. Whatever happened to hard work and determination to achieve your goal? When a person from the black community is the front runner in the Democratic party for election to the White House, I believe that white America has done enough to level that field. It’s time to get off your a** and go to work!

By Joe

June 16, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this

Obama is about as black as I am, and I’m Asian.

Hey redneck southerner, where can I get those “Curious George” Obama 08 T-shirts?

By Eric

June 16, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

Govt giveaways have destroyed the desire to excel in America period. The Federal goverment has given away the country in the name of foreign policy. It seems that if you are the preffered minority, then there is no problem with Affirmative Action.

By Dusty

June 16, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

RedNeck Convert is a liberal trying to make Southern conservatives look like dirt. He’s only about one hundred years behind in society and about 50 years behind in brain development.

If you want prejudice, go where the summers are slow to come. The modern South is a mecca for peoples of all shades including whites. They come here for the great opportunities and good relationships developed in the capitol of Georgia and throughout the South.

The worst sort of citizen is one who uses racial discrination as a political tool. That’s RedNeck Convert for you, right there behind that phony facade of his, stirring up a little discrimination of his own making for a few liberal votes.

By sane jane

June 16, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

How Wooten can write on this topic and NOT reference BHO’s speech on race (where he recognizes both black anger and white resentment, observing that “affirmative action” may be better suited to address discrepancies between high-income & low-income households, rather than race alone) is disingenuous at best.

Personally, I find it downright dishonest.

But I guess since such a portrayal wouldn’t help you defame the man, it has no use here.

Whoever posts under the name “Jim’s A Cherry Picker” is 100% right.

By black seminole

June 16, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

Where do they get the idiots who post on these boards the greatest beneficiaries of Affirmative action are white women grow up and get your facts right.

By Eric

June 16, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

I am a victim of Affirmative Action. I was passed over for a position on my company basketball team because they needed someone to ride the bench.

By sane jane

June 16, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

I tend to agree with Dusty (gasp!) that southerners catch a lot of flak & are presumed to be racist.

I saw more prejudice & bigoted behavior in Boston and Indiana than I EVER have in the south.

By drego

June 16, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

and the results are in! redneck convert said it all! as long as their are backwater spitjug people like that still around WE will never get a fair chanced at jobs, health care or anything! we have endured for far too long while they live happy on money and land left to them that was suppose to have been giving to us.we don’t even ask for that anymore just a fair chance so YES WE DO NEED IT because it’s hard for everyone but even harder for us!

By Dennis

June 16, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

“Does America still need affirmative action, given that an African-American has made it to the top of American politics.”

Leave it up to right wing Republicans to muddy the waters with a question intentionally designed to cause controversy.

Leave it up to Jim Wooten to repeat it.

You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.

By drego

June 16, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

and the results are in! redneck convert said it all! as long as their are backwater spitjug people like that still around WE will never get a fair chanced at jobs, health care or anything! we have endured for far too long while they live happy on money and land left to them that was suppose to have been giving to us.we don’t even ask for that anymore just a fair chance so YES WE DO NEED IT because it’s hard for everyone but even harder for us!

By drego

June 16, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

and the results are in! redneck convert said it all! as long as their are backwater spitjug people like that still around WE will never get a fair chanced at jobs, health care or anything! we have endured for far too long while they live happy on money and land left to them that was suppose to have been giving to us.we don’t even ask for that anymore just a fair chance so YES WE DO NEED IT because it’s hard for everyone but even harder for us!

By MorningStar

June 16, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

By Dusty June 16, 2008 9:08 AM They come here for the great opportunities and good relationships developed in the capitol of Georgia and throughout the South.

I agree Dusty. IMHO one of the major reasons so many companies have relocated to Georgia in recent years, is due to race relations. Hopefully this trend will continue.

By black seminole June 16, 2008 9:17 AM the greatest beneficiaries of Affirmative action are white women grow up and get your facts right.

Black Seminole, we’re not all idiots who would disagree with you. White women have greatly benefited from Affirmative Action. Anyone who would disagree needs to look at history, and talk to women who were young women and in the work force prior to the Civil Righs bill.

By Pat

June 16, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

Predictable; Jim posts his usual “there’s no racism, so blacks, stop whining” diatribe…which invariably, brings “less discreet” racists out of their closets, where they proceed to display the enlightened views which made affirmative action necessary in the first place. Thanks yahoos, for continuing to make our point for us. Viscious backlash always follows big, visible gains by blacks - it happened during Reconstruction, the Civil Rights movement, and it’s on full-display again (witness the slurs in the blogosphere, the monkey/Obama t-shirts proudly displayed and sold in Marietta, etc). Nothing’s more pathetic than a white loser locked into his delusion that some black guy’s winning is why he is losing. Wake up.

By RCH

June 16, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

The other day, I witnessed this event. A car driven by an Hispanic apparently took a parking space of an car driven by a African American. A shouting match ensued where the African American yelled at the Hispanic,”why don’t you go back to your own country.” I thought to myself;gee haven’t we come full circle.

It has now become a full time endeavor for many groups to be the most “victimized and oppressed”. It was African Americans, it is now becoming Hispanics,it will soon be Muslims.

I know also feel oppressed and I am a white conservative hard working man.Where is my relief?

By Edward

June 16, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

One problem with this essay: McCain doesn’t support the Arizona Civil Rights Initiative which would end race-based affirmative action in his own state. Furthermore, he was against a similar effort in Michigan in 2006. He was one of a handful of GOP senators to vote against an amendment a few years ago that would have eliminated racial and gender preferences in federal contracting.

Come on. McCain uses a worn-out trick—“I’m against quotas”— to disguise his position. Guess what? Nearly everyone, including Obama, is against quotas.

There is no difference between Obama and McCain on this issue.

By sane jane

June 16, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

I usually just snicker at Redneck Convert’s utterly transparent mockery of conservatives.

But I gasp to witness all the racist trolls who come out in agreement & don’t realize he’s parodying you.

Wow.

Pat’s right, though. When these racists come out from under their bedsheets, it’s a reminder that we’re not nearly as civilized & “christian” as we like to brag we are…

By Dave

June 16, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

It is so hilarious watching the liberals begin to spin like a top whenever someone asks a true, bonafide question requiring thought. They always go back to the class warfare, income warfare, etc., even when it’s obvious that hard work and good decision makeing DOES pay off. There are just as many caucasians below the poverty level as there are blacks. But when government hand outs, affirmative action, or quotas are brought up, it becomes black vs. white again. There are thousands of examples of minorities who started out in the slums and ghetos that paid no attention to the liberal koolade and just MEANT to be successful! Problem is, as soon as they BECOME successful, the minorities turn on them for being Uncle Tom’s or accuse them of being “fortunate”. I saw a bumper sticker that says it all, “ANNOY A LIBERAL: Work Hard, Take Responsibility, Make Money, Become Succesfull.” Liberals of today are just the same old Liberals of yesterday. Victims, victims, victims…..

By WFC

June 16, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

There was a article today about how CEO’s of major corporations were getting HUGE pay increases in spite of the fact that their corporations’ stock values and dividends were way down. I’m much more worried about THAT than affirmative action.

By Ray

June 16, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

These posts reflect the inevitable result of posting ourselves on either side of the racial divide and hurling insults at each other. Does a lot of good, huh? Anger, hate, resentment and name calling are always the result. Look at affirmative action within the context of why it was born. Education was a myth in the black community except to a very few and equal opportunity was sorely needed to give those that were disadvantaged an opportunity to join the mainstream. Fast forward to today. Most of the black high school students that apply for college go to the mall, go out to dinner with their parents, have probably dated someone from another race, talk on their cell phone, surf the net,etc. These people already have a level playing field that should not be race oriented. Times have changed, or haven’t you noticed? Taking away incentive by giving away the farm is not the answer. Responsibility and good hard work will still prevail in the long haul and is the backbone of how this country was founded. Join up and quit whining.

By John

June 16, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

It is a know fact that based on government statistics it is white women who have financially benefites from the affirmative action mandates. Black people may be the face of the program, but it didn’t work out that way. I say let it go. Senator Obama should not even fall into the trap. I put it right up there with abotion, gay marriage, etc. Just another non-issue to divide people.

By CJ

June 16, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

I hate to say it, but if Obama wins, a lot of black people (not all) will rally behind him and celebrate a black man making it to the highest office in the land.

If he loses, a lot of black people (not all) will shrug it off as Obama wasn’t really black, so therefore they really haven’t had a black person so close to the highest office in the land.

He has a lot of fair-weather friends on his coat tails right now. Where was Oprah during the Rev. Wright incident? Isn’t she based in Chicago, just like Rev. Wright? Seems like she would have had something to say!

Affirmative action is no longer needed. If you are qualified for a job, then you will be hired. We have numerous companies with women and minority leaders (Pepsi, Aflac, etc.). This issue should be over.

By BeBe KID

June 16, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

When the majority of CEOs and Government leaders are white males how can affirmative action not be needed? Affirmative action primarily helped white females when the laws changed to consider them an under-represented minority. The law changed and many white males in power hired and promoted their wives, mistresses and daughters. Affirmative action did not force the hiring and inclusion of unqualified African Americans it forced many companies and institutions to include qualified African Americans who must still validate their existence beyond a perceived unfair preference.

The hypocrisy of those college football loving white Southerners who complain about affirmative action but have no problem with their football teams being 100% black with players who were given athletic scholarships with no regard to their low SAT, ACT scores or High School GPA. JAWJAH DAWGS! White hypocrites!

By Joe

June 16, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

Hey, as a proud Asian. where is my stinkin’ affirmative action. Whitey subjugated my forefathers building their rail lines, right? Maybe, we don’t need it b/c instead of making excuses and complaining, we just went to work and now are slowly but surely taking over the world.

For Curious George, er Obama, telling black fathers this past Fathers Day to step up in their childrens’ lives is akin to swimming up Hoover Dam

By sane jane

June 16, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

That’s true. Conservatives want “colorblind” admissions… unless you’re a fleet-footed black tailback with a low SAT score. In that case, welcome to the SEC…

By ron

June 16, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

By Dave

June 16, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

Great post, Joe. Maybe one day….ONE day, the liberals will realize that 99% of the successful people got there because of hard work. They are too busy wailing about the “unfortunate”. There are people that have been dealt a bad hand, but in most cases “unfortunate” should be replaced by “poor decisions”, “poor work ethic” and “believed the Liberal garbage”.

By Tim

June 16, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

Dave @9:46

Grow up and get real! Yes, we have come a long way in this country, but if you think that real discrimination does not still exist, them you are fooling yourself. There are still a lot of folks in this country who would pass on me and my Masters because of the color of my skin. The notion that all is well and that all you have to do is work hard is foolish. The old saying ” its not what you know but who you know” still holds true. I implore you, don’t be blind, understand that while the need is not nearly what was, there is still a need. Tighten the requirements, but keep it in place.

By History Speaks

June 16, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

The first thing we have to do is admit that, if we were raised in America on American TV, then we are unjustly racists. We may not like ourselves for it, but even the most harmlessly-intentioned broadcasts, like the Jack Benny show, was racist. Jack did his darndest to make Rochester an equal on the show, but watch the old episodes. You’ll cringe.

We are racists because we are from racism. We cannot not be racists. We actually think that black people have generic and genetic traits that debilitate their moral choices, and diminish their capacity to succeed. We think that way because media has forced us to deduce that way.

Blacks themselves have been exposed to the same media and thus there’s a self-fullfiling, constraining momentum of acting out the subliminally-absorbed assumptions of priveledge and caste.

It takes two sides. You can have slavery without slaves. You can have slavery withou slave owners. The slavery institution was perpetuated by itself as a tradition. Thus both black and white acted out the naturally occuring scenario for hundreds of years, each side thinking that there was no other way to act, because all media told them so. There’s a fine line between reform and insanity. A slave owner would have thought to be insane who would accept his slaves as equals and worked along side them, dined with them, and lived with them as family, or set them free to interact in the towns with white folk. Imagine. We were that far gone.

So today, we have to fight ancient impulses to perpetuate racism according to tradition and the extreme racial difficulty arises because it’s all been so ingrained at so many different levels thanx to media.

Affirmative action is a barbaric remedy forced upon us by our shared history. When we justifiably dissolve that institution, we will know progress.

By Ray

June 16, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

Went to my grandson’s HS graduation last week in San Antonio. The valedictorian’s last name was Liu and the salutorian’s last name was Nyen. Both had grade point averages over 104 for the whole four years and had full ride scholarships to four or more colleges or universities. Absent fathers have a lot to do with not being able to excel but both of the above people were from single parent households. Hard work, hard work and more hard work will do wonders for your future!

By findog

June 16, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

As a heterosexual, male, Caucasian, Christian, of European origin; I found in the corporate diversity world I am exactly what is wrong with America. However, when a Female African-American manager hires 12 people and ten look just like her it is not discriminatory. And what is even better is that you will not find a single successful person of color: Justice Thomas, Senator Obama, Colin Powell, ECT… state that they made it by anything other that their own hard work. Time to end all discrimination!

By Putting History Behind Us

June 16, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

January 20, 2009: Barack Obama is inaugurated President of the United States, and the race card in this country is dead. If you are going to play it, play it now. When a black-skinned man is PotUS, expect to get laughed at for whining that Whitey keepin’ you down. You can’t have it both ways, so don’t even try it, buster.

By @@

June 16, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

Hi’Ya Jim:

Racial preferences should, as McCain asserts, should be granted “to remedy a specific, proven act of discrimination.”

That’s an affirmative Jim, but there’s one too many shoulds in the declaration.

If we’re gonna move beyond race, as Obama has proclaimed, then there should be no preference given to either.

I read where Armstrong Williams and J.C. Watts have both said that, although they do not agree with Obama’s policies, or those of the Democrats, they’re considering voting for Barack. My response?

Hmmmmmmmmmm….

By Eric

June 16, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

Think about it! Look at some of the posts on this blog. Maybe some of these people may be a person in human resources at Company X. Do you really want them having full authority over employment policies? I think not.

By Chris

June 16, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

I don’t see affirmative action denying coporate heads their jobs. Neither do you see it in the highest reaches for top level gov’t jobs. UGA’s negro enrollement is not 13% so quit spouting off numbers off the top of your head to disprove a point.

By Chris

June 16, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

I don’t see affirmative action denying coporate heads their jobs. Neither do you see it in the highest reaches for top level gov’t jobs. UGA’s negro enrollement is not 13% so quit spouting numbers off the top of your head to disprove a point.

By Ray

June 16, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Chris,

13% was the number that Cynthia Tucker stated in her editorial regarding UGA enrollment. It’s in the archives. When did you see Condolessa Rice, Colin Powell, William Sowell, John McWhorter, WEB Debois and others whine about affirmative action. If you are waiting for the time where discrimination does not exist in this country, you are in for a long wait. It will always be there, like it or not. Je$$ie and $harpton would have you believe that victims always win. The winners in this country are workers, not whiners. We are way past affirmative action and the sooner you admit it, the whole country will benefit, not to mention the people for which it was born.

By Lee

June 16, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

I think Obama is the national symbol of Affirmative Action in practice: he is much less qualified, less experienced candidate who was promoted over a longer-serving, far more qualified public servant (all who ran on the Democratic side for the primary).

NO record, no resume, no experience, and only on the job for 2 years before moving on up based on race, or gender— this is the classic definition of Affirmative Action.

I hope we can finally be absolved of our white liberal guilt here in America and get on with the equality we’ve all been promised?

By Southern Democrat

June 16, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

It’s days like today that make me realize that the racism those of us who lived in Atlanta during the Civil Rights Era saw has not gone away, it’s just gone underground.

Simply pathetic.

It always made me laugh when my white students who never did their homework but were guaranteed good jobs and college spots by Daddy talked about how affirmative action disincentivized “hard work.” Too much being born on third base and thinking you hit a triple going round in the comments section today.

I also enjoy pointing out to my most conservative friends that one of the most staunch advocates for affirmative action is none other than the United States Armed Forces.

By sane jane

June 16, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

“Born on third base but thinks he hit a triple.”

Amen, SD ~ well said.

By hillbilly ragger

June 16, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Lee @ 11:14’s “NO record, no resume, no experience”?

That’s crap, and you know it.

He’s worked his butt off, serving his community, crafting legislation both in the State house and in the Senate.

He fought and earned his party’s nomination, and he’ll fight and earn our nation’s vote in the general election.

You want an example of Affirmative Action at work? I think this lamebrain Jim Wooten, who occupies the Willfully Ignorant, Vaguely Racist White Guy slot at the AJC is an excellent example.

By songbird

June 16, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Some of your comments really make me laugh. How do you know Condi Rice didn’t benefit from affirmative action? I’m a white female with a Masters Degree in Applied Statistics. I have a great job with a very good pay package, but I’ve watched many lesser qualified white males get promoted above me during my 25 year career in corporate America. I’ve also seen unqualified people promoted because of their gender or ethnicity in an attempt to remedy the inequities of the past.

Working hard will only get you so far, connections are also very important if you want to move up the corporate ladder.

By songbird

June 16, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Some of your comments really make me laugh. How do you know Condi Rice didn’t benefit from affirmative action? I’m a white female with a Masters Degree in Applied Statistics. I have a great job with a very good pay package, but I’ve watched many lesser qualified white males get promoted above me during my 25 year career in corporate America. I’ve also seen unqualified people promoted because of their gender or ethnicity in an attempt to remedy the inequities of the past.

Working hard will only get you so far, connections are also very important if you want to move up the corporate ladder.

By Blogfather

June 16, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Try applying for any advertised low paying job and see the mob of blacks standing in line, mostly female.

Female and black? They better network and help themselves. It’s survival out there. Talk of revolution is rampant. Fear is driving the price of oil.

Our country is primed for protest and revolution. We are in a very dangerous spot. Obama reminds america too much of Abraham, Martin, and John.

Anybody here, see my old friend martin, can you tell me where he’s gone, he freed lot of people but it seems the good they die young I just looked around and he’s gone.

If America is asked to accept another injustice, it may decline. The entrenched conservatives may be forced to kent-state the protesters. The GOP convention could get real ugly. Ditto the Dem’s.

The whole world is laughing. The whole world is mocking. The whole world is gonna fiddy cent our bushy tails if we dont get real wise real fast.

When we taxed imported sugar we destroyed south american economies. When we grabbed the oil fields in the middle east we did it by proxy of installing dictators and tolerating their human rights violations.

The world thinks it’s payback time. SO do many americans disenfranchised by americans. The situtation is screwed up on many levels and across a vast cross section of the world’s population.

Cheney. I’m telling you it’s Cheney. Cheney and Rummy have been around since Nixon in the highest corridors of power.

It’s Cheney.

By Common Sense

June 16, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

Lee you are so weak! Who ran the best campaign? That is why affirmative action is needed!

We have dummies talking about a race that was won by the smarter candidate!

White managers for years have hires 20 out 20 white employees as if any minority did not have good creditials.

It is amazing when you think you can’t win you job on your own you want to destroy a law hat gives everyone a chance.

The caucasian sister and causasian brother has benefited as much as any minority with AA.

Now that she is divorcing you and leaving you for the minorities you are mad about everything! LOL

By Joe

June 16, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

Why is it when talking about race, it’s only about black/white? Why do blacks think they are the only ones with an ax to grind? Perhaps it’s b/c it shames them when people of other races (Asian, like me) can succeed and overcome similar abstacles that they apparently can’t or won’t. As for Curious George, er Obama, how would his resume stack up against Bobby Jindal. Not very well I’m afraid

By steve-o

June 16, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

There is no doubt that affirmative action should be based moreso on socioeconomic background rather than solely on race. However I have to take issue with those on here that believe that blacks and other minorities are have it so easy because of affirmative action. It’s completely erroneous. I’m black and was laid off early in the year. It took me four months to find another job. Four months is a long time and I was passed over for a number of jobs that I applied to.

Affirmative action doesn’t take exams, affirmative action doesn’t help you study, and affirmative action doesn’t guarantee you a job. You still have to work your tail off. And yes, Condi Rice, Colin Powell, and Clarence Thomas greatly benefited from affirmative action. Less than 40 years ago, blacks were actually encouraged to not go to college by guidance counselors because it was felt that blacks should only “work with their hands”. We’ve come a long way, but we still have a long way to go. The next phase should be focused more towards socioeconomic background—especially in making financial assistance for college more available to people from poorer backgrounds regardless of race.

By Lily Toad

June 16, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

So what if white women benefit from affirmative action? Women of all races and men of color are still in the minority in board rooms of all corporations. Sure, you can name exceptions, but look at over-all compositions of corporate boards of directors, people in elected office, and you will see a vast majority of white men. Many of the white men have benefited from their own affirmative hiring from, guess who — other white men of the same economic class.

I’m glad Wooten is bringing in class although he doesn’t dare breathe the word — that would be class warfare, but I agree that class should be looked at, too, in admissions, if we really want to level the playing field. People of working class, regardless of race, have been stymied by inferior schools and lesser opportunities due to family restrictions, for example, they may not have access to clubs and activities after school due to having to work afternoons and evenings.

By mr Lucky7

June 16, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

Some of the comments here make me believe I just stepped through a time warp and am on a Plantation !

There is a serious need for some critical thinking from not only the racially biased Columnist but some of his “constituents” also!

Is there a historic racial bias still evident in this country ? One only needs to read these responses to see how deeply it still ferments in this year of 2008.

By Blogfather

June 16, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

Try applying for any advertised low paying job and see the mob of blacks standing in line, mostly female.

Female and black? They better network and help themselves. It’s survival out there. Talk of revolution is rampant. Fear is driving the price of oil.

Our country is primed for protest and revolution. We are in a very dangerous spot. Obama reminds america too much of Abraham, Martin, and John.

Anybody here, see my old friend martin, can you tell me where he’s gone, he freed lot of people but it seems the good they die young I just looked around and he’s gone.

If America is asked to accept another injustice, it may decline. The entrenched conservatives may be forced to kent-state the protesters. The GOP convention could get real ugly. Ditto the Dem’s.

The whole world is laughing. The whole world is mocking. The whole world is gonna fiddy cent our bushy tails if we dont get real wise real fast.

When we taxed imported sugar we destroyed south american economies. When we grabbed the oil fields in the middle east we did it by proxy of installing dictators and tolerating their human rights violations.

The world thinks it’s payback time. SO do many americans disenfranchised by americans. The situtation is screwed up on many levels and across a vast cross section of the world’s population.

Look no further than Cheney for the how and why.

By Southern Democrat

June 16, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

Joe @ 11:46,

You’re exactly right. The Harvard Law grad, University of Chicago Law professor, Illinois House representative and U.S. Senator’s resume pales in comparison to the one term representative, newly elected governor of the most corrupt state in the U.S.

Thank you for tossing your credibility out the window.

Cover up, your racism is showing.

By ron

June 16, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

The handicapped black woman is the most qualified for any job.

By Tom N. Jeri

June 16, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

As a 17-year-old senior in the outback of Ware County, a large university in the Northeast offered me a partial scholaship that was part of a diversity effort. I’m a white male, but being a Southern farm kid from 1,000 miles away would have added to their diversity, I guess. The private school was still too expensive for me to consider going to.

By R_U_KIDDING

June 16, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

Affirmative action needs to go away, along with the NAACP. These are all ways the people propagate racism in the name of equality. Wake up people! You know the ACLU needs to go away also.

By Hasell Brown

June 16, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Affirmative Acton has always been a lightning rod of an issue, due to the fact that it addresses the basis of American life. People fail to remember that the Constitution was written to protect rich, white slave owners. People of color AND women were considered PROPERTY. Legislation has corrected most of that…but further corrections are still necessary. The preponderance of people - no matter what race/creed/color - believe in hard work and self determination; however, those efforts will only get one so far. I know of numerous black men, well-educated….many with Masters degrees….and can not find a job in their desired endeavor. If having a record and an education are the major key, what aren’t these talents being acquired?

People place Condi Rice and Colin Powell as evidence of the unnecessity of Affirmataive Action; Gen. Powell was BOOED off the stage at the 2000 Republican National Convention when he stated that the Republican Party NEEDED to embrace Affirmative Action so that the PARTY would become MORE DIVERSE! There were only 105 delegates of color to that Convention….and African-Americans are always being accused of monolithic thought???

In Corporate America, the preponderance of recent successes have been by Caucasian females…as has been duly noted. There are only 15 CEO’s of color in the Fortune 500, vs. over 50 female CEO’s - a 3:1 ratio.

Re: Dave @ 9:45: Sir - those that forget history are doomed to repeat it! It appears that you never studied your history and noted the advantage you were given by your skin color. That advantage is STILL prevalent in this society. Please do NOT lose sight of that fact!!

Southern Democrat said it best: “It always made me laugh when my white students who never did their homework but were guaranteed good jobs and college spots by Daddy talked about how affirmative action disincentivized “hard work.” Too much being born on third base and thinking you hit a triple……” . If you want to end Affirmative Action, begin by eliminating the LEGACY system at all colleges/university and make those generational candidates compete for the same admissions slots as everyone else. If you want to eliminate Affirmative Action, strictly enforce the 14th Amendment guaranteeing “Equal Protection under the law”; if you want to eliminate Affirmative Action, eliminate racism in society. Until that day arrives, Affirmative Action MUST be kept in place to ensure equal opportunity for ALL!!!

By Pat

June 16, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

To the Repub invoking his fave house negroes against affirmative action - Clarence T, Colin P. and Condi …. News Flash: Clarence Thomas has spent his career doing his best to yank away the ladder he himself climbed now that he’s a happy Oreo comfortably ensconced with the white power class. Affirmative action? Worked for him, but denies it to others. What a hypocrite. As for Colin Powell, he’s stated clearly that affirmative action still serves a purpose in helping blacks get ahead. As for Condi, I don’t recall her position on the subject. I still think white losers scapegoat blacks and affirmative action as excuses for their own failures. As to the Asian haters on this blog - Many Asians aren’t shy about their dislike of blacks. They have a right to be proud of their achievements and work ethic … but much of that goes back to an extraordinary system of family pressure and support going back thousands of years. Most Asian families are intact, with several generations living together - with the pride of the whole family riding on each individual. It’s tough to hold those same exact standards to blacks, who for generations, had their families destroyed, first by slavery and Jim Crow, then later by drugs. That doesn’t relieve them of individual responsibility. It does help explain how an entire race is still struggling to overcome dysfunctional dynamics.

By catlady

June 16, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

My son and BF take the PSAT. My son scores a few points above the BF. The BF is black, with 2 professional parents and family income over $200,000. Me: white, single parent, 3 children, income less than $15,000 (at that time in grad school) Guess who was invited to Duke?

Same son initially refused consideration for admission to a middle school club that required high test scores, high grades, and interest. He had those 3, but was not offered admission because he was not black/Asian. I had to protest to the school system lawyer (who defended the school’s practice) until I threatened to go public.

I was one of 2 semifinalists for a job. I had the exact credentials listed, plus additional publications and presentations. I knew I would not get the job when I saw the other candidate. Although he did not have the required credentials, he did have black skin. The institution wanted to add a black male very badly. The only other one employed was a janitor.

I don’t think the playing field is level, but in some areas its un-levelness is NOT in favor of white candidates. Too bad things cannot REALLY be race-blind. We miss out on a lot of good folks because of that (both ways).

God bless the Asian folks. They always leave us standing in the mud.

By tom ga hunter

June 16, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

I have just 2 words to add to this: Clayton County..

By KnowItAll

June 16, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

Mr Lucky7 @ 11:52

Man, you just can’t let go of your victimization-can you? You have been born and bred on carrying that racist chip on your shoulder, and don’t hesitate and can’t wait to whip it out every time something doesn’t go your way-can you?

Unfortunately, Reverend Wright has brought out what we all knew existed and for all to see—Hate of the white community is alive and well in the black community, and being preached from the race w******* (Je$$ee and $harpton—can you say Duke lacrosse team?) and self-righteous pulpits of even the largest black churches.

You just CANNOT let it go! Who will you be—-how can you continue to be bitter—- if you can’t use this crutch to get your way? You will have to become just another member of America instead of AFRICAN_AMERICAN!
Oh, we just Can’t have that!!!!

YOU are the racist, MrLucky77. Get over this ingrained chip on your shoulder and become an American and chuck your victimhood. Else, prepare to be bitter, feel put down and weak the rest of your life.

By Peter

June 16, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Discrimination starts with the VP Cheney, remember the West Virginia comment Jim?

When the VP of this country acts in a Racial way, perhaps there is a place for affirmative action.

Or is the Cheney Joke something that doesn’t cross your Right wing mind?

Wasn’t Bush the guy who wanted to give Illegals all kinds of rights?

By Crafty

June 16, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Better watch out Jim. Your co-worker, Jay Bookman, will call you a racist. He paints ANYONE who disagrees with affirmative action as a racist.

By You're Friendly Neighborhood Bigot

June 16, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

Jim,

Alwyas with the RACE card. I think people like you are dying off. Thank GOD!! If you ask a young person today about racial matters, they know nothing of it. NOTHING!! So where does this hate continue to permeate from…why Jim Wooten and his other hateful friends. Affirmative Action worked to get Blacks in an otherwise pure white business model. It still excludes Blacks from getting business loans, giving full recognition to HBCUs, recognizing Blacks as viable members of society. You know, “EQUALITY?” No law or policy changes what is in the hearts of those hate mongers. Barack is my age, and we are the last of the Baby Boomers, Jim. Racial hate is just about over. Sure, you can teach your children to hate but I’m sure they are only entertaining you. As all things, certain eras come to an end. There is a special place waiting for those like you Jim.

By deegee

June 16, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

The very fact that Obama’s racial background is a topic of conversation goes to show how far this nation has to go in order to overcome our history of oppressive white supremacy. Obama has emphasized the importance of his mother and grandparents in his intellectual and spiritual development. As hard as it is for Americans to believe, there exist countries with diverse populations where politicians are elected to office with no importance placed on their racial classification. Here’s the short history of the U.S. The Europeans screwed the Indians, then they screwed the Blacks, now they are screwing the Hispanics. History marches on and so should affirmative action.

By BFKaJ

June 16, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Dear Southern @ 11:54, I respectfully suggest your leftist snobbery is showing. Jindal’s capacity greatly outweighs Obama’s. You magnify Obama’s strength, his resume – all things given to him by others – and disparage Jindal’s strength, his ideas, the product of his intellectual capacity. While I acknowledge that Americans have often elected a president on the basis of a resume alone – George H. W. Bush and Herbert Hoover are the two most striking examples that come to mind – Americans generally regret the action and correct it at the first opportunity. Obama is an empty suit. When one thinks of revolutionary ideas, I remember a fellow whose sole resume claim was as a two term governor of a western state. I’ll take the idea guy anytime.

By :D)

June 16, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

Hasell, that’s wrong. USA founders were white property owners, but to blame them for constitutional vulgarities is to blame mozart for the sonata form. Mozart had to employ the musical protocol of the day. A rock band today MUST use the guitar. That’s the medium.

You mistake historical ambience for destiny.

The signing founders tried to ban slavery but the south wouldn’t have it, thus our civil war started as soon as the ink was dry. or sooner.

By Common Sense

June 16, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

Man Joe if we listen to you I would think Asian don’t have proverty issues,over bearing populations issues, class issues, discriminate against the poor and uneducated issues, steal technolgies from other countries issures, gang issues, treat women like second class citzen issues.

We all have problems in every race So please stop with the Hate we have enough of that already!

By MorningStar

June 16, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

By Ray June 16, 2008 10:59 AM We are way past affirmative action and the sooner you admit it, the whole country will benefit, not to mention the people for which it was born.

I seem to remember someone quite a few years ago, I believe about 1970 (no age cracks please), who stated we as a country had become so civilized we no longer needed labor unions. I’ll be the first to state, labor unions overstepped their bounds and created some of their own problems. However, without them we’ll have a class of rich and poor, just as we had prior to the FDR administration and later the civil rights bill and affirmative action. What should happen? Everyone should be hired based on qualifications. Unfortunately that will not happen. As late as 1989 I sat in the pulpit of a church and listened to the ‘roles of women.’ Fortunately, after a few sessions of iodicy I had enough sense to leave and go elsewhere. If we would be FAIR, there would be no need for labor unions, affirmative action and many other rules and regulations. But, as my Mother frequently told me, this is not Heaven. I guess we’ll wait. Off to take care of business.

By catlady

June 16, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

My son and BF take the PSAT. My son scores a few points above the BF. The BF is black, with 2 professional parents and family income over $200,000. Me: white, single parent, 3 children, income less than $15,000 (at that time in grad school) Guess who was invited to Duke?

Same son initially refused consideration for admission to a middle school club that required high test scores, high grades, and interest. He had those 3, but was not offered admission because he was not black/Asian. I had to protest to the school system lawyer (who defended the school’s practice) until I threatened to go public.

I was one of 2 semifinalists for a job. I had the exact credentials listed, plus additional publications and presentations. I knew I would not get the job when I saw the other candidate. Although he did not have the required credentials, he did have black skin. The institution wanted to add a black male very badly. The only other one employed was a janitor.

I don’t think the playing field is level, but in some areas its un-levelness is NOT in favor of white candidates. Too bad things cannot REALLY be race-blind. We miss out on a lot of good folks because of that (both ways).

God bless the Asian folks. They always leave us standing in the mud.

By Willie

June 16, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

By Hasell Brown June 16, 2008 12:12 PM

Well, my dad was a farmer and a fruit picker and I got passed over for females and blacks in the service and in my present employment. My education was more than theirs in the military and met/surpassed all qualifications in my present employment. You are so full of it. Just how many daddy’s do you that do not look our for their kids…maybe black dads?….well I do know some sorry white dads who do not look after their kids. If you have the money to go to college you will get in…duh! College is not about education as much as it is about money. I would rather work with a high school grad or AA grad than anyother. Why? Well, the others want a position and really do not want to work. I am off today but how many of you are at work and blogging. Must be that degree working for you. Affirmative action cost me and my family. I have to live at a lower end of the crowd. I will make it but a vacation is a backyard BarBque. And I DO NOT OWE YOU BLACKS/FEMALES ANYTHING…GOT IT.

By Dutchman

June 16, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Folks,

Why is it that the lefties always wants to bring up race?

The conservatives seems okay with race, skin color and other physical attributes, even when applied to someone of mixed racial makeup.

But, it always seems that the socialist are always trying to make a big deal about a persons physical attributes. It is as if they want to drive a wedge between the races to advance their cause, I do not understand.

History has the records of both philosophies but the left keep slapping itself on the back for all of its “advances”.

By :D)

June 16, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

Common, that’s plain wrong. Think of what Confusius said about going to bed with an itchy butt, and then maybe you’ll see where you went wrong, okay?

‘muff said.

By Common Sense

June 16, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

Someone gave Mr. Obama his creditials! Amazing!

Many of us has been hired with no experience and we did a great job.

Now Mr. Obama who is obviousely very intelligent to come-up with his team and plan to become president has knowledge about the political world.

The world does not revolve around you! So wake-up and smell the coffee!

You some of you just ought to admit you just do not like Mr. Obama. Instead of trying to speak about being an empty suit.

Can anyone name what exactly is Mr.McClain foreign experience!

Being a prisoner of war give you experience in what how to get capture!

What has he passed in the senate that has benefited the country he voted for the war. Mr. McClain has so much experience he voted to send our troops to a place with major secular now we have to pay the Sunni and SHia’s from fighting us!

WOW a great foriegn policy strategy!

By RenaP

June 16, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Affirmative action is needed not for only blacks - but for women, Asians, and all other people that don’t fit in the white man mold. This country is not fair or equal.

In most cases WHITE MEN are the ones that believe that things are fair and equal for everyone and affirmative action is not needed.

By Satan

June 16, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

As the entity responsible for giving Mr. Obama all that is his, rest assured I’ll look out for you, too, through him. He is my representative topside. Vote for him and reap unbelievable rewards. Just do it.

By Dutchman

June 16, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Common Sense,

I would estimate that McCain’s foreign experience is at least as much if not a little more than BHO’s. McCain was an adult while serving in a foreign land. Being a kid going to school in a foreign land does not add a lot to ones resume. Now attending that ritzy school in Hawaii, that is a resume booster.

By jct

June 16, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

@catlady

You are normally so rationale that I don’t get your arguments today. You state your son test score was a few points higher on PSAT but not the SAT. How was his BF academic record? What extras at school did the both young men participate in? Duke is a private school who can choose not to follow any affirmative action guidelines. Did his parents attend a school similar to Duke? Obviously there is more to this story then race.

In the job situation you first state that you both have the same credentials except you had additional publications and presentations. Then you state that his qualifications were less. Which is it? How did you know so much about his resume? It is not very common place for recruiters to share resumes of the competition with other candidates? Did you see his resume? Do you think that intangibles such as fitting in with the rest of the team, presentation skills or attitude at the interview could have made a difference?

I wish that we were a race blind society as well. However, we are not and never will be because humans are tribal. We like to be surrounded with people who look, act and think like ourselves. To me, class is way more important indicator than race.

By Southern Democrat

June 16, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Dear The Artist Formerly Known as Jbmlaw @ 12:35,

Two points: I was, in fact, directly addressing the outlandishly ignorant claim that, specifically, Gov. Jindal’s resume was better than Sen. Obama’s.

By Common Sense

June 16, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Willie I would imagine a better attitude would help you get hire also.

Let’s face it folks everyone can’t get promoted or hired.

Your personality matters, your attitude matters, Your ability to communicate matters you need more then just education.

Catlady I hope and pray you keep and your son keep fighting for what you want in life. It will come to pass!

Wisdom!

Being a REAL PERSON OF CHRIST has benefited me and my family thru adversity and discrimination. I believe in treating people right!

We should all try to be like CHRIST I guarantee everyone life would be a whole lot better!

By Quit Whining

June 16, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

Here’s a quiz for you - guess what race I am. I’ll give you a hint, I’m either white or black. Here is some info to help you decide. My dad was born into a large and very poor family in depression era KY. They were sharecroppers and everyone had to spend time in the fields. The local schools were integrated bet the farm work had to be done first. He went into the army right after high school because nobody could afford college. He did well in the army and served with both black and white soldiers. The army gave him an opportunity to attend college while on active duty. He received degrees, served in both Korea and Vietnam, and retired after 25 years. He went back to school, got another degree and changed career fields. My mom came from roughly the same background but stayed home to raise the kids. I was fortunate that they could pay for my college so I had things much easier. Now I’m 40-something with a family of my own and the only person who is responsible for my success looks back at me from the mirror. I have never received an affirmative action boost nor have I ever received anything because of who I might know. So, am I black or white?

By R_U_KIDDING

June 16, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Hasell Brown, you really need to wake up, why does any race need affirmative action, and better yet why do blacks think it only means them? If you really believe what you wrote, then you must believe that certain, do nothing, jobs are created for affirmative action candidates and that is what is keeping them from being a CEO. So tell me what do nothing job do you have? Professor? LOL

By =:>(

June 16, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Oh, do tell us, Common sense, how can we be more like Christ? Be careful, it’s a trick question and I’m a Pharisee.

By Hasell Brown

June 16, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

To offer my rebuttal: By :D) June 16, 2008::

“Hasell, that’s wrong. USA founders were white property owners, but to blame them for constitutional vulgarities is to blame Mozart for the sonata form. You mistake historical ambience for destiny.

The signing founders tried to ban slavery but the south wouldn’t have it, thus our civil war started as soon as the ink was dry. or sooner.”

If my history serves me, the Constitution was signed in 1776 and ratified in 1781….and the Civil War was fought from 1860-1863. That is a 69-year difference. Thomas Jefferson, a signatory to the Constitution, was an actual slave owner…AND has descendents born from his dalliances with women of color (do you forget Sally Hemmings and her descendents. How long did it take the Jefferson Society to acknowledge that fact?) From your perspective, it was historical ambiance; can you also see that it could have been historical DESIGN??

That design has mutated into what we have today…overt AND covert discrimination….supported by law. Since the virus has mutated, so should the vaccine. Thank you for the perspective……

By Willie - 12:50PM

“Well, my dad was a farmer and a fruit picker and I got passed over for females and blacks in the service and in my present employment. My education was more than theirs in the military and met/surpassed all qualifications in my present employment.”

Let me address that first: Sir, we are parallel in so many accounts: 1) I was raised by a single paarent from the time I was 9…but my father WAS in my life until his death. I am a veteran…and well-educated…with 2 Masters degrees….but because of my education/experience/age AND race, I have yet to find a job in my field here in Atlanta…having been looking for almost THREE YEARS! I am working….and I’m in my son’s life as well. My family believed in education and hard work….and I have accompished that point.

Your venom speaks volumes; you blame people of color; I blame your lack of vision and opportunity. You’ve become disillusioned; I’ve become MORE DETERMINED!! THAT’S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US!!

“Just how many daddy’s do you that do not look our for their kids…maybe black dads?….well I do know some sorry white dads who do not look after their kids.”

At least you admit to the fact that race has no limit on stupidity.

“If you have the money to go to college you will get in…duh! College is not about education as much as it is about money. I would rather work with a high school grad or AA grad than anyother. Why? Well, the others want a position and really do not want to work.”

Another falsity: many people WANT to work…but the opportuinities aren’t there. For SURVIVAL, they work in areas they had not designed their lives for…..but are working to reach their dreamed goals. Maybe your dreams have been dashed…but mine have not!! Dare to dream…and you will achieve!!

“I am off today but how many of you are at work and blogging. Must be that degree working for you.”

Today IS my off day….I read this and other media to determine what people think and reason, and use that knowledge to develop MY ideas as to my politics, job search….et.al. Don’t limit your perspective.

“Affirmative action cost me and my family. I have to live at a lower end of the crowd. I will make it but a vacation is a backyard BarBque. And I DO NOT OWE YOU BLACKS/FEMALES ANYTHING…GOT IT.”

Affirmative Action did NOT cost you; your attitude and beliefs were the culprit. I’m not where I want to be…but I will be closer because of my belief in my abilities, education and DESIRE to better myself. I owe my parents ALL that I am….I owe society to be a decent person…and to be an example to all who know me. ALL SOCIETY OWES ME IS THE OPPORTUNITY TO SUCCEED!! I must put forth the effort to attain success!!

By Taxpayer

June 16, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

People make conscious decisions every time they open their mouths and speak or lay their fingers to the keyboard. There is a thought process involved in that decision. Beyond that, anything goes.

By JTH

June 16, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

The short answer to the question, “Is affirmative action still needed is a resounding YES”.

White males (and their families) have benefitted directly and indirectly from roughly 300 years of unhindered opportunity to benefit from the fruits of their own labor (and the labor stolen from slaves and disenfranchised blacks post-slavery), while African-Americans had to fight institutionalized barriers like slavery then segregation for generations. Blacks have only gotten a publicly-enforced fair shake since the mid-to-late 1960s.

Now, after barely 40 years of trying to level the playing field, there’s a clamor to call it even.

If you want to replace affirmative action with a better system to try to make up for the economic effects of slavery and segregation, fine, but to say “OK, let one group have a 300 year advantage before allowing other groups to compete equally on merit is plain immoral.”

I can and have competed equally with people of all backgrounds (ie. my standardized test scores, grades in school, etc. were as good as anyone else’s), BUT that was because my parents were finally given a chance to attend the best state-run universities and make the most of their opportunity.

40 years is not a long enough period to create enough opportunities (ie. more economic diversity where certain races can’t be assumed to be at a given level) before turning a blind eye.

By =:>(

June 16, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

How could anyone not know that the civil war was set in motion by the signing of our constitution?

By Oh Please

June 16, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

JTH, PLEASE tell me how I have benefitted from unhindered opportunity. PLEASE!!!!

By aah

June 16, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

There’s a basic component left out of theses comments. Life is inherantly unfair. With - or without - affirmative action, black women will be passed over for jobs, white kids will be passed over by the university of their choice, white males who don’t deserve it will get a break, black men who deserve to do well will do poorly, and vice versa.

Most people agree that our country’s past includes racism and that it still exists. To what degree is more individual. I personally think it’s time to phase out affirmative action in it’s form today. But whether we have it or not, there will always be inequity in our society. And we each need to find something else blame when falling short of a goal.

By Crafty

June 16, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Affirmative Action is about as relevant as Al Sharpton. All it does is put people in positions because of their skin color. What happens if this AA person is an “D” med school student? Does that make that person better? Nope, just means that some innocent person is going to wind up injured or worse. Blacks have it much easier than ever before. Just work hard. And, no I’m not a racist.

By Blind Homer

June 16, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

There is something fundamentally wrong about denying the more qualified job or school applicant simply to accomodate a less qualified person because of their race or gender. Affirmative action is discrimination.

By Jane

June 16, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

I hope Obama wins… otherwise, we’ll get to hear more whining and victimization from many Black people, and I don’t know if I can tolerate any more of that after reading this blog.

The playing field is as level as it’s going to get RIGHT NOW. The reason people get passed over for college admissions etc. is because they were lazy in high school. I had jobs, and I was the leader of many clubs. (None of the colleges I applied to turned me down.) No one can tell me that someone is so unfortunate that they can’t join a free club or two in high school to make themselves competitive. But, I’ll give the benefit of the doubt here. Can’t join a club? Got no car? Have to babysit little brother in the afternoons? That’s fine - Go home and study, and get straight A’s. Practice (for FREE) for the SAT and get high scores. That will take you far as well, and it doesn’t cost anything to study! I am tired of hearing about disadvantaged children growing up to be disadvantaged. It’s because they have bad parenting that they think their future is hopeless. Get off the drugs and the string of bad relationships, and help your kid with his diarama of the solar system. Read him a book before bed instead of planting your @$$ in front of the TV for hours. We wouldn’t still need AA if some parents sent their children the right messages. Example: someone was talking about how Asian families put a lot of pressure on their children to succeed. Better to have too much pressure and high expectations than no pressure and low expectations….Think on that.

By R_U_KIDDING

June 16, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Since when is discrimination legal? Affirmative action is legalized discrimination…

By JTH

June 16, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

Oh Please…

Simple. Prior to 1967, if you were black and a Georgia resident, you were not allowed to attend the Medical College of Georgia. Didn’t matter if you were smart enough and made good enough grades, if you were black, you COULDN’T go.

Prior to 1961, you couldn’t be black and go to UGA (even with good enough grades). Didn’t matter that it was one of the best universities in the state and your taxes paid for supporting it. If you were black, you couldn’t go.

Now, assume for a minute that all blacks smart enough to go to UGA and MCG were barred from higher education and all similarly talented whites weren’t.

You don’t see how the compounding effect of their earning potential generation to generation doesn’t at least partly explain the economic disparity we see today?

By Hasell Brown

June 16, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

Another rebuttal:

By RUKIDDING June 16, 2008 1:34 PM::

“Hasell Brown, you really need to wake up, why does any race need affirmative action, and better yet why do blacks think it only means them?”

You’re missing the point and historical perspective; who suffered the greatest indignities and the behest of the majority: people of COLOR! It did not matter if your were of African, Asian…or Native American descent. I never thought that Affirmative Action should be limited for African-Americans; have you forgotten the indignities the Chinese suffered in the building of the American West? Have you forgotten the absurdities of the Japanese-Americans, being held in confinement during WW2…with no due process? Have you seen what Native Americans have suffered throughout history by those of the majority?? Have you forgotten that women had NO rights under law until the suffragettes fought in the ‘20’s?

Please review your nation’s history…and you’ll understand the necessity of Affirmative Action.

“If you really believe what you wrote, then you must believe that certain, do nothing, jobs are created for affirmative action candidates and that is what is keeping them from being a CEO. So tell me what do nothing job do you have? Professor? LOL”

I do NOT have a “nothing job”; if you have desire, you want to work. If you need to survive, you HAVE to work!! I load airplanes for Delta….and I have 2 Masters degrees. I WANT to work; I WANT to be a positive model of society….but I have yet to find the job I desire. I gave up my job out West to come home to care for my family member with Alzheimer’s; I don’t regret that decision…..

How did many CEO’s become CEO’s?

1) Family inheritance 2) Some worked their way to the top 3) Others were hired due their experiences in similar/dissimilar corporations 4) CONNECTIONS!!

Out of those 4 — a limited few managed fall under #2; the preponderance: 4, then 3, then 1. Think about it!!!

By JTH

June 16, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

Oh Please…

Look, my parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. all paid taxes to the state of Georgia, some of which went to support UGA and the Medical College of Georgia.

Prior to 1961, no blacks were allowed/admitted to UGA.

Prior to 1967, no blacks were allowed/admitted to MCG.

Now, assume for a minute that in a group of similarly qualified applicants that all white people were accepted and all black people were denied (which was the case in 1961 and 1967, respectively).

You cannot tell me that the applicants that got a university education or a medical degree didn’t have an advantage in economic power (and opportunity to educate future generations).

Now compound that over a few dozen generations and you can EASILY explain the disparity between blacks and whites.

That’s all I’m saying.

By Get_Over_IT

June 16, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

JTH, I am a white male, and like most white males we came here AFTER slavery. I did not own any slaves, so what did I benefit? If you feel like somebody owes you something then go find the relatives of slave owners, I DO NOT OWE YOU ANYTHING. My father was from Russia, they left in 1917 because of the Bolshevik Revolution. My mother is American Indian, so I guess that I could say everybody here owes me something. Stop looking for a hand out and go get an education and a job, I had too.

By JTH

June 16, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

Uh, GetOverIt,

Look, I’ve got a bachelors degree, am in graduate school (for my MBA) and make double what the average US household makes.

I don’t need your handout. Thank you very much.

By Anthony

June 16, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Want to end affirmative action great put real money in inner city schools. So those kids will have a real education so they can play on the same field. A white kid going to north Marietta HS is getting a superior education to some kid in a inferior inner city school. Now it time for both of them to go to college, who has a better chance of succeeding?

By DumbAmericans

June 16, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

You dumb silly americans are at it again.

When are you fools going to realize that the enemy is the Federal Reserve and the thieves you vote for every year.

These devils have suspended the constitution and God help you when FEMA and Homeland security finally impose martial law.

Your country was hijacked in 1913.

You now live in a communist country and do not own anything.

The United nations owns everything you think you own.

Get off your arses and expand your knowledge.

By Get_Over_IT

June 16, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Then why are you justifying it.

By Joe

June 16, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Southern Democrat @ 11:54

Jindal’s resume: Graduate of Brown and Oxford Univ, age 25—single handedly turned a bankrupt LA medicaid into surplus, Rhodes Scholar, age 29—asst secy HHS, youngest ever pres of Univ of LA system, age 27—director of bipart cmmte for Mcare reform, US House of Rep, Gov. of LA—in 6 months has passed the most comprehensive and stringent ethics reform bill—this is a minority in LOUISIANA of all places!!!

As for Curious George (Obama): his main accomplishment is plagiarizing his now estranged preacher for his feel good happy book.

No Southern Democrat, I think you need to take your Afrocentric blinders off and learn the facts.

As for Asians having social problems too——no question we do. The difference is that we don’t blame all our problems on whitey and whine about it til the end of time. We just work hard and beat them at their own game

By Oh Please

June 16, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

JTH, that takes 1 generation to correct. My grandparents were poor and uneducated. My dad was educated and very successful. One generation.

By JackLeg

June 16, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Hey, Hassel Brown and JTH

I am so tired of entitlement, by anybody or any race. You can spout whatever history that you want, the problem is 90% of us came here after slavery, we had nothing to do with slavery; we did not benefit from slavery. God gave you a life; you can do with it what you please. If you feel like somebody owes you something all your life you will just be an angry person. The choice is yours.

By JTH

June 16, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Then Oh Please we have something in common…

My father has a MD and as a result of his success, my sister and I were able to take SAT prep courses go to good schools and get advanced degrees as well (she has a MD).

I am simply arguing that not every family is going to be able to make the jump in one generation/person.

By Crafty

June 16, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

Has anyone noticed that it’s not affirmative action that’s needed now days but rather better parenting? I go in to restaurants and fast food joints to find rude employees and sloppy work ethics. That’s the problem. It’s this whole notion that “I’m entitled to this and that” and everyone else owes me something. It’s not just a white/black issue.

By Robby

June 16, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

There’s a guy at the Big Texas Steak Ranch trying to eat the 72-ounce steak. He’s got about 40 minutes left if you want to check it out of the Web cam. I’m no good at links. Just google the restaurant.

By Oh Please

June 16, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

JTH, you are right. Every family will not be able to make the jump in one generation. But, regardless of the circumstances, the one’s who can will and the one’s who can’t won’t. Black, white, brown, yellow, red, or green… it doesn’t matter.

Do you and your sister owe your success to your dad’s success? I don’t think so. A skipped latte every day can pay for SAT prep courses. An SAT prep book is less than the cost of a fancy hairdo.

A parent’s priorities will determine how much advantage their kids have. Their kids’ work ethic and determination will determine their success.

Interest compounds, opportunity (or lack thereof) doesn’t.

By Robby

June 16, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

That’s Big Texan.

By Southern Democrat

June 16, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Joe @ 2:42,

Your continued use of the moniker “Curious George” for a United States Senator is demeaning and reflects a deeper bigotry than I care to address in the commentary section of a blog. Suffice it to say that, as an attorney, I highly recommend that you refrain from using such language in your place of work if you wish to keep your “hard-earned” job.

By JTH

June 16, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Oh Please,

I disagree somewhat with that. If your parents can buy you a PC to use at home versus having to run you to a library (and schedule time) every time you need one, that makes a difference.

If your parents have the extra money to pay for prep courses instead of having to watch/save every last penny for food, utilities or transportation (be it a car or MARTA), that makes a difference (since scholarships can be partly awarded based on PSAT and SAT scores).

So, yes, I think part of my and my sister’s success is directly a result of my father having the opportunity to succeed, him succeeding which led to my folks having more money (and therefore the resources to provide me a better education, etc.).

Obviously, we (my sister and I) still had to put in our own work hitting the books, etc. but we got the extra tools (like a home computer for papers) that gave us a leg up on some folks.

By Southern Democrat

June 16, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

Oh, and Joe, that will be $300.

By Southern Democrat

June 16, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

To whomever posted at 3:40 in my name, $300? What do you think I am, a first year associate?

By William J. Pennington, esquire

June 16, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Three hundred is the going rate for free legal advice given unsolicited over the Internet on a forum that does not allow you to verify your bona fides. Cash the check and be grateful for it.

By deegee

June 16, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

Interesting that we are hearing from white folks that claim that they are successful because they work hard, make sacrifices and nobody gave them anything. Then we hear from white folks that say they work hard, make sacrifices but are losing out because of affirmative action. I wonder what the difference is?

By @@

June 16, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

SELF-DETERMINATION!!! There’s just no substitute for it.

As at Southside, White graduated with honors from Alabama’s Talladega College, a private historically black institution she attended on full scholarship. She graduated from the Morehouse School of Medicine in 2004. “I’m not one to hold grudges,” she said. “When I look back on it now, it was more a motivation for me. I’m the type of person who will try to prove people wrong.”

The married mother of three and self-described “survivor” insists she struck the words “quit” and “failure” from her vocabulary early in life. Stubbornness and family support and encouragement helped her keep her resolve during tough times, such as her high school years, her mother’s death and failure to get into medical school on her first try.

She finally married the right guy….a White guy. J/K people. IT’S A JOKE!!!

We’ll just call the other two self-absorbed adolescent BOYS, little green with envy horney toads.

YOU GO GIRL! I sure hope she talks to young girls before they expose themselves to the warts.

By William J. Pennington, esquire

June 16, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Even free is expensive in this economy. But you knew what I meant, so in the words of great Americans tftt and Glenn, stfu and gfy.

By Oh Please

June 16, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

JTH, I think you’re just trying to stir the pot by comparing the poorest of the poor with an MD. You started this discussion as one based on a compounded lack of opportunity and now you are on household income.

But to respond to what you said, a PC can easily be had for less than $500. Easier access to a PC than the library or school is nice but far from making the difference. Prep courses are nice too but equally as far from making the difference.

I know way too many people who are successful because they worked hard and smart. Assuming one can only make it if they are presented with nothing but the very best opportunities is a slap in the face.

As a matter of fact, I grew up exactly opposite of you. I had no PC until I bought one. I had books but not prep classes. And almost everyone I knew had things just like me - parents that provided the right environment in the home without the best of everything. We lived well below our means (and I still do) just in case something terrible happened.

I hope I turned out OK.

By getalife

June 16, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

“But everything changed July 11 in the bright sunshine of Adhamiyah, Iraq. That day, while out on a simple meet-and-greet patrol, McKinney stepped out of his Humvee and yelled.

“F—- this!”

He raised the barrel of his M4 to his chin and squeezed off one shot.”

Damn

By Ms Tucker If Ur Nasty

June 16, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Joe @ 2:42, you left out the fact that you’d marry Whitey at the drop of a fedora to boost your status, and enhance your station in life, culture be damned.

By =:>()

June 16, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

The greatest moments in the history of sports are happening right now. If you’re not watching, the terrorists win, (and it proves you’re gay).

notthatthere’sanythingwrongwiththat

By Maniac is accurate

June 16, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

What are Anna Kournikova and Gabrielle Reese thong wrestling Danica Patrick and Maria Sharapova? What channel is that on?

By Common Sense

June 16, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Joe:

When you can treat your women with class and respect talk to me! It TOOK THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA TO INTRODUCE ASIANS TO RIGHTS for all people! You still have a pronounced class system, do not speak to me about anything until you learn how to treat people right!

Try fighting to do away with the caste system.Also, show some respect for Mr. Obama. Mr. Obama would run circles around you! Are you a Havard grad?

Nuff said!

We have all types of people on this blog who are stereotyping one group of people! I did not know affirmative action only applied to one group of people.

I only hope none of you who have such a mind set is caling themselves CHRISTIANS because if you hare you have a LONG,LONG,LONG,LONG WAY TO GO!

By me

June 16, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

if we get rid of affirmative action, then college apps. should also get rid of legacy.

By =:>()

June 16, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

Man oh man RU gay!

By Dan

June 16, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

Actually “Affirmative Action” (a misnomer if there ever was one) only excludes one type of person. And I suppose legacy could be compared to that except that it is hardly material in numbers and there is a far greater liklihood that a succesful intelligent person will have successful intelligent offspring. So there is lower risk of admitting ill suited students that way

By Terrell in the ATL

June 16, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

Is Affirmative Action still needed?

No, we already have too much racism in the world as it is.

Thanks.

By Redneck Convert

June 16, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

Well, I know I been descrimanated against. I went after this superviser job and it was down to me and one of Those People. Well, they give the job to him. Just because he was wearing a fancy suit and read and wrote good and used all kind of fancy words. It just gos to show this Affirmative Action is evil!

By Political Foreskin

June 16, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

U know, the only thing I can remember about conservatism is that it represents the homosexual desire for the penis. Every news item for that past 8 years has been about very christian rightists giving lip to other very christian rightists.

Now, I’m liberal on some issues, and very conservative on others, but can we keep the mouth for speeches, please?

thank you, conservative blowhards.

bwa

By Political Foreskin

June 16, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

I know what @@ and RW, who are both very christian gay conservatives, (in fact, they’re the best of that hue of our humanity), are going to say, “What about Clinton and that New York Guv? Wasnt’ that about oral sex 2?”

Yes, it was, my fine conservative christian friends, yes it was. But I think it was about heterosexual foreplay, which is condoned as legal and moral, in fact, necessary parts of the reproductive cycle upon which our species depends.

I’m kidding, of course. I dont believe that @@ or RW are gay. You know scientists still cant discount the possibility that some neanderthals survived to this day, undiluted by interbreeding. Now, the DNA record suggests that no interbreeding occured, instead, the neanderthal were made extinct by their lack of adaptation to climate change and modern man’s warlike ways. We kill. Period.

But RW’s and @@’s comments over the years have defied the geneticist’s best proof.

bravo RW. you go girl, @@.

bwa

By Political Foreskin

June 16, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

I know what @@ and RW, who are both very christian gay conservatives, (in fact, they’re the best of that hue of our humanity), are going to say, “What about Clinton and that New York Guv? Wasnt’ that about oral sex 2?”

Yes, it was, my fine conservative christian friends, yes it was. But I think it was about heterosexual foreplay, which is condoned as legal and moral, in fact, necessary parts of the reproductive cycle upon which our species depends.

I’m kidding, of course. I dont believe that @@ or RW are gay. You know scientists still cant discount the possibility that some neanderthals survived to this day, undiluted by interbreeding. Now, the DNA record suggests that no interbreeding occured, instead, the neanderthal were made extinct by their lack of adaptation to climate change and modern man’s warlike ways. We kill. Period.

But RW’s and @@’s comments over the years have defied the geneticist’s best proof.

bravo RW. you go girl, @@.

bwa

By WFC

June 17, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

HASSELL: your history does not serve you well.

• The Declaration of Independence was ratified in 1776, not the Consitution.

• The American people lived under the Articles of Confederation until the late 1780’s. The Articles gave almost all power to the states.

• The Constitutional Convention of 1787 was originally called to revise weaknesses in the Articles. They exceeded their brief and created a new form of government. After a long political battle, the new Constitution was ratified.

• It would be nice if Americans knew a little American history.

By catlady

June 18, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

jcs, sorry about the lack of clarity.

I was talking about the kids’ PSAT scores. The PSAT can be taken by younger than normal gifted kids and was used by the Duke Talent Search when the kids are 7th graders to determine who gets invited to go to special summer programs for gifted middle schoolers. That is the program my son lost points on because of his skin color. If he had been black he would have been invited. In fact, he could have scored significantly less and been invited. Race as a proxy for disadvantage does not always work.

On the story about the job: I worked at the institution; I had been filling the position as interim for over a year with rave reviews. I saw the man’s resume. Several of my colleagues were part of the search committee. He did not at the time have a PhD, nor had he experience in the state system, nor did he have a lot of research experience, all things specifically stated as required. I did. My name was the one forwarded to the President as the committee’s choice. He was chosen by the President. (Parenthetically, I served on a search committee earlier for another position. We forwarded the top candidates to the President. He came back and told us we HAD to include a black candidate in the finalists. One of my colleagues, a respected leader, quit soon after as a result of his disgust with the interference of the President in the established search process. Neither of the two minority applicants for the position had the required experience or academic success for the position; they could not be included.) Race should not be considered.

One other story: As a poor grad student I frequently came in a few days late to pay my gas bill. It happened more than once that I observed black folks in line to pay being treated much more rudely than I. Rudeness should be equal-opportunity.

Sorry I was so murky yesterday.

By catlady

June 18, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

jcs, sorry about the lack of clarity.

I was talking about the kids’ PSAT scores. The PSAT can be taken by younger than normal gifted kids and was used by the Duke Talent Search when the kids are 7th graders to determine who gets invited to go to special summer programs for gifted middle schoolers. That is the program my son lost points on because of his skin color. If he had been black he would have been invited. In fact, he could have scored significantly less and been invited. Race as a proxy for disadvantage does not always work.

On the story about the job: I worked at the institution; I had been filling the position as interim for over a year with rave reviews. I saw the man’s resume. Several of my colleagues were part of the search committee. He did not at the time have a PhD, nor had he experience in the state system, nor did he have a lot of research experience, all things specifically stated as required. I did. My name was the one forwarded to the President as the committee’s choice. He was chosen by the President. (Parenthetically, I served on a search committee earlier for another position. We forwarded the top candidates to the President. He came back and told us we HAD to include a black candidate in the finalists. One of my colleagues, a respected leader, quit soon after as a result of his disgust with the interference of the President in the established search process. Neither of the two minority applicants for the position had the required experience or academic success for the position; they could not be included.) Race should not be considered.

One other story: As a poor grad student I frequently came in a few days late to pay my gas bill. It happened more than once that I observed black folks in line to pay being treated much more rudely than I. Rudeness should be equal-opportunity.

Sorry I was so murky yesterday.

By catlady

June 18, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

One other race-related story. This one dates to 1990, so I do not know how much it is still operative. I worked in admissions in a large (non GA ) public institution. This college got wwaaaayyy more applications than it had slots. It sorted kids by SAT. White kids were assessed primarily by the SAT scores. You don’t know how many denial letters I sent out to kids with 1200 SAts (before re-centering). All the minority kids were looked at carefully to see if there was ANY way they could be offered admission. There was a special committee that met and individually looked at the applications. It was routine for black kids with 900 SATs to be admitted. I am not talking about athletes; there were athletes who were illiterate (a friend was in charge of their tutors/notetakers).

Now IF you don’t think the SAT is a valid predictor of college success, DON’T USE IT FOR ANYONE. (See article in today’s AJC).

Whether this school does this now or not I do not know. I doubt it. But it was wrong at the time to use differential methods to decide access, IMHO. I could not continue to work there.

By catlady

June 18, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

One other race-related story. This one dates to 1990, so I do not know how much it is still operative. I worked in admissions in a large (non GA ) public institution. This college got wwaaaayyy more applications than it had slots. It sorted kids by SAT. White kids were assessed primarily by the SAT scores. You don’t know how many denial letters I sent out to kids with 1200 SAts (before re-centering). All the minority kids were looked at carefully to see if there was ANY way they could be offered admission. There was a special committee that met and individually looked at the applications. It was routine for black kids with 900 SATs to be admitted. I am not talking about athletes; there were athletes who were illiterate (a friend was in charge of their tutors/notetakers).

Now IF you don’t think the SAT is a valid predictor of college success, DON’T USE IT FOR ANYONE. (See article in today’s AJC).

Whether this school does this now or not I do not know. I doubt it. But it was wrong at the time to use differential methods to decide access, IMHO. I could not continue to work there.