Home > Thinking Right > Archives > 2008 > June > 05 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USMcCain, Obama: It’ll be brutal
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Hillary Clinton’s supporters, especially women, are — to use the old fashioned word — sore with the media because they think we suck up to Barack Obama and that we’re so caught up in the “first black” narrative that she could never catch a break.
Pioneering feminist Gloria Steinem, a Hillary supporter, is convinced a woman won’t occupy the Oval Office in her lifetime. That’s a fully believable assertion. Steinem’s 74 years old. But her point is that it’s easier for a black male to win the office than a white female.
“For 35 years people have been asking me if there will be a female president, and I have always said, ‘not in my lifetime,’” she is quoted by the Associated Press. “I still feel that way. The patterns of history are that, at the upper levels, we see different varieties of men first. The female comes later.”
She blames Hillary’s narrow defeat on the media’s preference for Obama. “The media was in love with Obama,” she said, “and in hate with Hillary, hands down.”
The fall race against John McCain will be a real test of the media’s ability to avoid picking up that narrative to the point of bias. Bias would be easy in a race that pits Obama against McCain.
Obama is easily the more media-savvy. Too, he’s an inspiring public speaker, while McCain is awkward, low-key and sometimes boring. It’ll be awfully easy for the media, and for the rest of us, to get swept up in style over substance. McCain’s obviously aware of that. On Tuesday night, he challenged Obama to join him in 10 town hall meetings between now and the Democratic convention in August, starting a week from today in New York.
“I don’t think we need any big media-run production, no process question from reporters, no spin rooms,” he said. “Just two Americans running for office in the greatest nation on earth, responding to the questions of the people whose trust we must earn.”
It’s a setting that could work to McCain’s advantage, which is obviously why he suggested it. McCain’s at his best in the town hall settings, while Obama is at his worst without the prepared script and the teleprompter.
The fear that the media will give Obama an easy ride, starting with the story of his pal Tony Rezko’s conviction in Chicago Tuesday on charges of fraud, money laundering and bribery, will give rise to a host of independent political action groups, the so-called 527s, this fall. Hillary could never hammer him on his Chicago connections and on his views because she risked alienating the constituency she needed. McCain may not have the stomach, either. But independent political action groups need no permission to raise money and buy air time to get a story out that they think has been insufficiently addressed in campaign coverage.
McCain can certainly propose, as he did, that he and Obama can just sit down and air their policy differences, with no “big media-run production, no process question from reporters, no spin rooms.”
That may be the way the campaigns starts. And it may be the way the campaigns finish.
But in between it’ll be brutal.
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Comments
By Eric
June 5, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this
Why is it that most whites like Wooten feel like they have to give black people something. To all of these whites who say blacks are being given something I have a question. Where are these “give me” lines located? I am black and missing out.
By Pat
June 5, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this
I once had - and still have - admiration for Gloria Steinam. But she needs to stop whining. Victimhood and empowerment aren’t compatible messages. I’m a 50 year old feminist, and I believe a woman can and probably will win her party’s nomination in my lifetime. But the most politically polarizing woman in US history? Uh, no. I hate to say it, but I’m betting it’ll be an iron-pants Republican (not crazy uber-be-yatch Ann Coulter - think Thatcher-esque)or a moderate Dem. Sorry Hill, that ain’t you.
So you think it’ll be a brutal election Jim? Damn straight. But the difference this time, is the blood won’t be flowing from just one side. The rage Democrats feel after at least one stolen election, and another hijacked by Swiftboat b-s artists is that this time, the creeps fronting the 527’s will find no place to hide. Bring it on, scumbags - this time we’re going to put our boots so far up your rear you’ll need a proctologist and a lifetime supply of adult diapers.
By HIDT
June 5, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this
Well, there will certainly be a different dynamic this year. For the first time in a loooong time, there will be no incumbency issues. GHB carried Reagan’s incumbancy by proxy in his first race. Al Gore had the same through Bill Clinton, as did Hillary Clinton. We certainly have a cleaner slate, which is probably a good thing. For that reason, I’d stay away from Hillary if I were Obama.
By zeke
June 5, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this
Kemmet Aziz
You are an un American, biased idiot! One day, soon, all you idiots will be begging to have another President as honest, truthful, down to earth and stedfast in his committment to protect and defend the USA from enemies both foreign and domestic(democrats and liberals), as W.!!!
By Neo-cons McChimpyHalliburtonCheneyHitler warmonger
June 5, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this
Good morning all. I think the forecast of a brutal election is accurate, and I anticipate that neither Captain Queeg nor Hussein will directly participate. For all of their personal limitations, neither is an unethical soul, and I think neither has the stomach for mudslinging. For me this is a conventional election, where I will likely vote against the greater of two evils, here Obama. I previously suggested that this election was a rerun of 1952, the consciously-intellectual democrat vs the low-key political/military strategist republican. I think my earlier argument was overly generous to both candidates. I think now this is a replay of 1976, the slickly-packaged shallow democrat who evasively avoids talking “policies” vs. a plodding colorless hedgehog. McCain has an advantage in that he is justifiably identified as the more conservative candidate; no democrat has been initially elected since 1964 except by running to the right of his republican opponent. I think McCain’s wedge issue will be earmarks. Obama’s history of diverting public funds to his wacky leftist friends will ripple badly, as do seemingly all of Obama’s associations; McCain, if not exactly Mr. Clean on earmarks, is significantly better than 95% of his colleagues, to the point that he is despised by most who know him. So we’ll see whether this is a high school popularity contest – advantage Obama – or a serious policy election – advantage McCain.
By WFC
June 5, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this
Let’s whistle in the graveyard! Poor, honorable John McCain will pay the price for “W’s” doltish administration (Iraq, Katrina, housing crisis, $4.00 a gallon gas.)
“Mene, mene, tekel, upsharsin.” “W” and Belshazzar. You have been weighed in the balance and found wanting.
By Just Nasty and Mean
June 5, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this
G’morning Jim, et al,
It is clear Obama is going to have a shroud of protection from the mainstream media—just as he had during the primaries with Hillary.
Obama’s clear and unequivocal scam with Tony Rezko to acquire his home for much less than market value will not get the scrutiny it deserves. Likewise, Rev. Wright, John Ayers and Obama’s association with these far-left hate America radicals will receive far less attention. Don’t expect Obama’s earmark providing tens of thou$ands of taxpayer funds to
McCain, on the other hand, is going to undergo a “cavity search”—the likes of which will be unmatched. Expect new surprising non-facts to emerge from McCains scrape with Keating, and accusations out the wazoo on his connections with lobbyists (a common element of a national politician), and of course—every time McCain even slightly mis-speaks (Sunni/Shiite) it will be seen hundreds of times to infer McCain is “loosing it”. But mostly—charges of racism will permeate and keep McCain’s campaign on the defensive.
I expect a weekly charge of racism coming from the 527s and Obama’s staff and VP choice.
Obama’s hallowed acceptance speech the other night laid out the blueprint of what is to come: An absolute barrage of—-“That isn’t change”. Of course, there is do definition of what we are changing to…
Stand back! This campaign is going to be dy—no—mite!
By MADMOMMY
June 5, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this
Pat, you need to first grow up. Regardless of who wins, we are in this together and what ever choice is made affects us all. Give it a rest.
I think McCain is right to invite Obama to a town hall meeting, because I have no idea of what he stands for, other than Change. Change to what? Can he now start to focus on policy?
McCain is the BEST man for the job, but he is really going to have to stretch to get his points across because the media machine does love Obama and will use that against him. Maybe if he turned it around from being a populatrity contest, to a real election we might get some where rather then just chasing our tails.
GO McCAIN!!
By Just Nasty and Mean
June 5, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this
G’morning Jim, et al,
It is clear Obama is going to have a shroud of protection from the mainstream media—just as he had during the primaries with Hillary.
Obama’s clear and unequivocal scam with Tony Rezko to acquire his home for much less than market value will not get the scrutiny it deserves. Likewise, Rev. Wright, John Ayers and Obama’s association with these far-left hate America radicals will receive far less attention. Don’t expect Obama’s earmark providing tens of thou$ands of taxpayer funds to
McCain, on the other hand, is going to undergo a “cavity search”—the likes of which will be unmatched. Expect new surprising non-facts to emerge from McCains scrape with Keating, and accusations out the wazoo on his connections with lobbyists (a common element of a national politician), and of course—every time McCain even slightly mis-speaks (Sunni/Shiite) it will be seen hundreds of times to infer McCain is “loosing it”. But mostly—charges of racism will permeate and keep McCain’s campaign on the defensive.
I expect a weekly charge of racism coming from the 527s and Obama’s staff and VP choice.
Obama’s hallowed acceptance speech the other night laid out the blueprint of what is to come: An absolute barrage of—-“That isn’t change”. Of course, there is do definition of what we are changing to…
Stand back! This campaign is going to be dy—no—mite!
By Ryno
June 5, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this
At every public debate that both senators participate in I want Senator McCain to ask Senator Obama a very simple question.
“Mr. Senator, every single economist from the most junior to the most tenured agrees that the absolute worst thing to do to for an economy that is going through a down turn is to raise taxes. It cripples business and personal investment and extends the period of recession. With that said, since so many Americans are feeling the burden right now, why on earth would people vote for you to raise taxes on capital gains, payroll and social security.”
It’s your move Mr. Obama.
By Get Real Wootie
June 5, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this
Yeah, with outFOXed News running Rev. Wright morning, noon, and night for two month. CNN, MSNBC, and the other networks did the same thing. Think the same thing was done with Hagee?? So who REALLY is the media giving a pass to? I have come to realize that you Republicans have no clue what you are talking about, especially Wooten. I mean where do you get your information from? Show facts where Obama has gotten a pass? Rezko’s trial was the last few months, and if Obama was such a ‘pal’ as you claim then why was he not called to testify in the case? I thought journalism was abotu producing unbiased FACTS, instead of commentary and innuendo; even on the lame, right leaning “article.” I know the AJC has better writers than you that can present even the Republicans talking points in an honest manner. You really do suck Wooten.
By George Washington
June 5, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this
Much of the animosity, hatered, name calling, and uglyness comes from republicans blogging as Democrates, voting for Hillary in Primaries, and now writting devisive newspaper editorials that repeat all of the above….I know, because I am one…but this Republican WILL be voting for Obama in November, while the other infiltrators like old woodenhead fully intend to vote for McInsane (my friends, bomb Iran, bomb Iran, bomb Iran, thank you my friends, nap time). Why Obama: He is the best hope for rebalancing the income distribution (in the statistical sense, not the government hand out sense), stoping all the senseless foreign military entanglements, reducing the obscene amount of tax money going to fund the military-industrial complex, and putting an energy policy in place that has a chance of success….McInsane will only bomb Iran…..
By Mid-South Philosopher
June 5, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this
Good morning, Jim,
I am not sure that there has ever been a civil campaign for the Presidency of the United States. Certainly, there has been none since the Election of 1800.
That being true, I don’t want a cozy rosy campaign between the Democrat, Republican, and Libertarian candidates. I want them to slug it out man to man, hand to hand (figuratively speaking of course). I want each to challenge the other’s perspective, position, and postulations. The one that convinces me of the validity of his (at least this year) approach will get my vote. Right now, that looks like McCain, but, remember, I was one of the idiots that voted for Georgie W. Bush, so what do I know!
By Get Real Wootie
June 5, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
Wooten you’re horrible. Just can’t bring yourself to admit that your guy Bush has had the worst Presidency in the last 50 years, maybe the worst this country has ever seen. No discussion on the $4 gas, failed War in Iraq, forgetting the REAL war in Afgahnistan, how the economy is in the tank for the majority of Americans, the nonexistence of domestic policies, how this administration would rather bailout banks than the people who really suffer in this housing crisis, and how McCain and Bush disapprove of the new GI Bill because its TOO generous to the troops that have given so much to this failure of an administration, I could go on and on. No debate at all on how terrible the Republicans have been the last eight years. Surely your response will be the Democrats have been the majority in Congress the last 2 years. My response is 1) Thank God and 2) funny how Bush finally broke out that veto pen, and how the Republicans have tried to stall every piece of meaningful legislation since they’ve been the minority. PEOPLE START CALLING OUT WOOTEN FOR WHAT HE IS, AN OLD SHILL FOR THIS TIRED, OLD, FANATICAL, HAVE NO IDEAS SO THEY RESORT TO FEAR, REPUBLICAN PARTY. Is this all you can talk about? How the GE will be brutal. The AJC actually pays you for spewing this garbage. You haven’t written anything of substance in weeks and I wonder why. You have nothing to speak of because deep down in whatever you may have for a soul YOU KNOW how much of a travesty BushCo has been, and McSame will take the fall for it.
By Kemmet from Philly
June 5, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this
@ Zeke Un-American? Not hardly, if anything I’m a bleeding heart American, it tears me up on the inside knowing that everyday men and women from this country are put in harms way for an illegal war that was waged on a foundation of lies. You say I’m biased? Wrong again my friend; I always take in both sides of the story with a clear conscience and open ears in order to formulate my own opinion. You and 99% of the American populace just make your viewpoint from what the “conservative media” force feed down your throat. Somewhat like Mr. Wooten here, he doesn’t see fit (nor to comfortable) to let both sides of the story be told.
By Copyleft
June 5, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
Of course it’ll be “brutal.” Whether you prefer the landslide or the steamroller metaphor, McLame is going to be demolished in an overwhelmingly huge and obvious way.
And, true to form, the GOP will take away the wrong lesson from this loss. They’ll insist, “We just weren’t conservative ENOUGH! Next time, we’ll nominated Fred Phelps—or Hitler!”
(snicker)
By Copyleft
June 5, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
Of course it’ll be “brutal.” Whether you prefer the landslide or the steamroller metaphor, McLame is going to be demolished in an overwhelmingly huge and obvious way.
And, true to form, the GOP will take away the wrong lesson from this loss. They’ll insist, “We just weren’t conservative ENOUGH! Next time, we’ll nominate Fred Phelps—or Hitler!”
(snicker)
By findog
June 5, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
Sure would be nice to have debates or town hall meetings on topics and solutions. But then I thought the West Wing drama’s suggestion of the same was an utopian dream. Right now though I am hopeful in the knowledge that the two principal candidates appear to be interested in knowledge and applying it to our current and future problems.
By HappyVoter
June 5, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
It took 8 years of an administration like GW’s to motivate the vast middle majority in the Republican party to mobilize for the mission too long in coming. That would be the eradication of the far right wing. It is such a hopeful feeling to see that assortment of racist, bigots, nativists, xenophobes,talibaptists, and other varieties of miscellaneous trash on the outside looking in. They are froever gone. Marginalized to the point of having no relevance. So to me, no matter who wins the coming election…..mission accomplished.
By Mike K.
June 5, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
I hope those same “independent” political action groups bring up McCain’s past as one of the Keating 5. I guess Jim forgot to mention that in his entry.
By KnowItAll
June 5, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
Kemmet from Philly @ 10:01
What in hell are you talking about? You state “…Wooten here, he doesn’t see fit (nor to comfortable) to let both sides of the story be told.”
What the hell do you think this blog does,you ignorant bozo?
You don’t have the competence to even be on this blog.
By DaveD
June 5, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this
no Jim and Co…it will NOT be “brutal” for all of us…it will ONLY be “brutal” for those of you that plan on voting for Mclame (more of the same). This time around, nobody cares about abortion and gay marriage… as anyone with a brain realizes that abortions will always stay legal and gays will keep on being gay.
People will not be threatened with the feeling of being “un-patriotic” if they don’t support the war. 70% does not any longer. If you think Obama is going to be “swift-boated” like Kerry…think again. It’s not going to happen. He’s far more intelligent, drivin, and has accomplished much in his rather young life. Being a leader does NOT mean having to have spent your life in politics. Allah (why is YOUR god the right one?…maybe THEIR god is the right one…haha) knows that Bubble Boy Bush failed at every single business he ever had, until he was handed a few as “payback” from his Daddies Saudi “criminal” friends.
Obama will take McLame, and chew him up and spit him back out in any type of debate…town hall or not. it does not matter…McLame’s just not as smart. It does not matter that he’s older…in fact he is TOO old (that’s another issue)… but age never had anything to do with how smart one is anyway.
Once again…the only thing “brutal” is your having to face…that the “machine” Rove tried to build…to have GOP rule for 40 or so years…. is on the beginning of doing a complete 180. YOu just handed the dems 40 year control…
Though after what Bubble Boy and co. have done…it just might NOT be enough time to fix it. If I had children (thank Allah I do not)… I’d be making them learn Chinese… Our empire is dead. We need a leader who can get along… as we are no longer the worlds super power…that’s OK… ALL empires die. Bubble Boy and Dr. “dick” Evil just handed over the keys to the world a bit earlier than expected…
(and no…I am NOT going to proof read this for spelling and grammer errors… hell this is GA…land of the worst schools in the nation, so why would it matter)?>!
By Abomi Nation
June 5, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
Jim, why the problem with Obama? He seems to have ripped out the first chapter of your great Ronald Reagan’s campaign book, “How to charm the media.” Oh yea and the second chapter too, “Public speaking 101.”
Hey Jim, tear down that wall!
By Patman
June 5, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
Well I see Wooten & Company are at it again. Everything that any black person gets that’s worth anything is given to them just because of color. I’m a black man and, as Eric stated, I’d like to know where all this free stuff is. Given the constant scrutiny that Obama has gotten over his pastor and a priest who wasn’t even part of his church, I certainly beg to differ with the notion that he’s gotten a free pass from the media but, then again, no black person has ever achieved anything without it being given to him/her just because of color, heh Jim?
To Gloria Steinem and others who state that the media have been so bad and horrible to Senator Clinton because she’s a woman, do you think that maybe her loss wasn’t due to media bias but concerns about her character? It’s difficult to lie about sniper fire, fake a southern accent in Selma, vote for a costly war out of political expediency, and not admit you made a mistake, race bait and try to change the rules in the middle of the game and not be disliked. Don’t even get me started on the misdeeds of the Clintons before Hillary even decided to run. The Jim Wootens, Rush Limbaughs, Sean Hannitys, Bill O’Reillys and others think that they’re entitled to the highest positions of power available in America just because of their color and Obama’s success signals the impending end to that privelege and that’s what scares these Stone Age wingnuts to death. Well they’d better get used to it because a new day is here.
By Roc
June 5, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
This election will put on display the double standards that many minorities face in this country.
It amazes me how Curious George (a.k.a the incompetent boob in the White House) without any federal government experience could beat the substance of Al Gore with 25 years of public service experience including a stint in the Senate and the Vice-Presidency, yet experience matters soooo much. How convenient?
It amazes me how we have two basically C students in Curious George and Our American Hero McSame, yet people consistently attack the first African-American to lead the Harvard Law Review and a Constitutional Law Scholar as having no substance. What? Are you kidding me? Those two boobs don’t have any substance. They have a staff that comes up with this stuff.
Its amazing how Jimbo Wooten brings up Rezko, but Bush and Chaney’s connections to Halliburton were okay, so were Bush’s connections to Enron, so is the fact that Bush was elected by Big Oil and now the price of oil has nearly tripled since he’s been in office and his buddies at Big Oil are seeing record profits. And Obama’s the one people need to be worried about because a former acquintance was up to no-good. What???
I hope the American people show that they are smart enough to not go for the head fake. Obama is truly a representative of the people, not the powerful. He doesn’t owe any big corporations favors because they aren’t the ones electing him to office. As with all presidents, he’ll put together a cabinet to strengthen any of his perceived weaknesses and turn the page in this country.
To give the Republicans four more years is simply not in the best interest of the country. The macho white male syndrome is no longer good foreign policy. The mudslinging and fear mongering of the past is no longer the way to elect the leader of the free world.
Don’t be stupid and go for the headfake. Don’t assume that Obama (who has a white grandmother still alive) is against white people. Don’t give Rev. Wright any more credence. You cannot assume that every sermon that he’s preached for 20 years was hate-filled rhetoric. That’s a HUGE leap to take. Obama wasn’t even present for the three sermons at issue, which has been proven.
On the sexism point, I don’t think you can say Hillary lost because she’s a woman and much as you can say that she lost because she’s a Clinton and ran a terrible campaign early on. I was a huge Hillary supporter last year and didn’t think twice about her being a woman. She lost me when she started being petty and insulting Obama’s intelligence and ability. She may be older, but I’d put my money on him being smarter. It had nothing to do with her being a woman. Hell, I’d vote for a woman without thinking twice. However, if I have a choice, I won’t vote for Hillary.
Cheers!
By Kemmet from Philly
June 5, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
Since Mr. Wooten sees fit to delete my previous post with the link I added, I will post it again.
Mr. Wooten you can try and censor the truth but you cant censor the American People!!!!
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraqwarpix.html#IRAQWARPIX
^^^^Please see what Mr. Wooten and others dont want you to see of the horrors we have caused because of lies and greed
By Quit Blaming Whites
June 5, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
To Patman @ 10:24
You’ve got a GREAT BIG racial chip on your shoulder. You think everything in your life boils down to the fact you are black, and now Obama is going to provide you with the vindication you yearn for to slam everyone who ever “put you down”.
Good lord man. If you only knew how far whites have come from your thinking. Obama’s success is proof.
Why not give up your victimization mindset and get on with your life. We’ll both be happier for it.
By Dutchman
June 5, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
Okay folks, here is your choice.
Are you paying too much in taxes?
Do you want to pay more?
More questions.
Who is it the determines how and when the primaries are to be held? The DNC, or the state legislature?
And why is it that not every vote counts (Florida and Michigan).
Curious minds what to know.
By JK
June 5, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
I can’t remember the last time I saw, heard, or read any objective, substantive reporting in the ego-inflated wh0re media. American “journalists” have ditched their integrity in favor of the dizzying headrush of punditry. Influencing someone’s vote means more to them than fulfilling the purpose of the fourth estate. We’ve watched them sneer at Hillary’s every word, gesture, and pantsuit for months, and read her mind for us (“she meant…, she thinks…”) while displaying wide-eyed, giggly grins when speaking of the fresh hope of Obama. Then we’ve watched them turn on him too, a trend that will now accelerate. Will this election be brutal? You betcha! Prepare the swiftboats. The circus action will be staged, orchestrated, and moderated by these wh0res. Hope you weren’t expecting integrity in any part of this process.
That being said, sexism permeates every race, religion, culture, and socioeconomic faction. It’s been less than 100 years since women achieved the constitutional right to vote in the first place, and even then only by the skin of the teeth of the women that went to PRISON demanding it. The only real equality we have is the right to kiss the chosen man’s butt. I’d love to believe otherwise, but after watching and listening to my fellow Americans this year, I get the message loud and clear: “Sit down and shut up, b—-h.” Got it.
By Professor Plum in the Billiards Room
June 5, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
I’m a woman and not a particular fan of Gloria Steinem’s, but in this instance she is correct. Look at the right to vote—black men received the right to vote decades before women.
And I don’t know that Obama will beat McCain (I won’t vote for either one of them), but I’ll bet that a black man will become President before any woman does.
The politically correct liberal media squashed Clinton’s campaign, and then the DNC handed Obama Michigan and Florida. Clinton was swiftboated by her own party. It’s disgusting.
By Alan Hurtz
June 5, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
This idea that Obama has been given a “pass” is utterly STUPID! The media has been running with that Rev Wright crap nonstop….He was nominated in spite of those smears….Blacks make up 10% of the population….That means that a whole lot of Whites are liking what Obama has to say also, ….I think Americans have become fed up with the current state of affairs…How can anyone, with a clear concience get on here and defend GWB and what he has done to this country!!
By Manny
June 5, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
LOL @ Know-it-All @ 10:11AM
You don’t have the competence to even be on this blog.
If competence was a prerequisite for writing on this blog, it would have very few comments.
By Shar
June 5, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this
I agree with MidSouth Philosopher above that campaigns for the presidency of this country have never been characterized by civility. Even George Washington had his detractors who did not hesitate to surreptitiously publish scurrilous pamphlets in an attempt to put their preferred candidate in the position to set the rules for the new presidential idea. That George W, the only compromise choice that could be found, didn’t want the job and only reluctantly agreed to become president to cut short the vicious infighting that was already threatening to undermine the nascent government and which has permeated every election since. There is no reason to think this one will break the mold.
That said, I feel very sorry for John McCain. To the extent that the election becomes a referendum on the presidency of the much more regretted George W, Senator McCain will be saddled with defending a record he has never truly supported and a man who ruthlessly and relentlessly attacked him personally and professionally, lied to him frequently and about him even more frequently and who used the party machinery and McCain’s own ambitions to silence him. With the overwhelming unpopularity of this president coupled with the angry insistence of the most discredited wing of the party that they be heavily represented in policy and personnel regardless of their rejection by the general electorate, McCain is already starting this race with several cement blocks tied to his ankles.
If McCain can resist the pressure to select a right wing running mate, can appear to renounce the Bush presidency without alienating the Bush fundraising machine and can keep the focus on specific governance policies that are realistic within the economic and military confines left by Bush, he should do well. Barack Obama will be strongest when he assails the Republican legacy and can steer clear of particulars, using his remarkable oratorial skills and personal charisma to promise better days without actually filling in the hourly schedule of those days. Exterior events can be deciding as well - if we suffer another major attack, McCain wins. If the economy continues to spiral downwards, Obama wins.
These things have little to do with racism, ageism, past scandals or present company. With the country in conditions that are rapidly approaching dire, I believe that the electorate will be more influenced by substantive differences than personal assaults or wedge issues.
By Enlightned One
June 5, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Pat Pat Pat….geez lady loosen your bra…oh thats right you burned yours. So the election was stolen and the swift boad veterans sunk Kerry by what? telling the truth? Your man Obama comes with a lot of baggage. Since he has not held a productive job during his adult lifetime how does he afford a $1.4 million dollar house? Why did it take 20 years to discover he did not like his preacher. Why does he still associate with a terrorist that admits he bombed buildings in the nations capital. Geeeeee maybe you better put your bra back on.
By ron
June 5, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
Good Morning all,It will certainly be an interesting campaign.Let’s ponder one scenario.Let’s say,just for the sake of supposing,that George Bush bombs the dog snot out of Iran on September 30th.Now where we going?What’s Obama do then?Bring The troops out?Hardly.Say he’ll keep them there and tee off his left wing buddies?Just keep this in mind ,folks.This is only one scenario that can play out if you want to win bad enough.
By Dutchman
June 5, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
JK,
“It’s been less than 100 years since women achieved the constitutional right to vote in the first place”
Careful about you statistics. Some folks might make the case that we have been in fiscal trouble about the same amount of time.
They had begun voting in the late 19th century in Idaho, Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming. But it was 7 years after the Income Tax(1913 for those in mid-town) was passed that the right to vote was recognized with the 19th amendment in 1920.
It seems a recent study suggests that government spending always increases dramatically after women are allowed access to the ballot box. The Swiss being the last hold out.
Not necessarily my opinion, but it is out there.
By Chicago
June 5, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
JK @ 10:45
Don’t you know that it’s been ONLY 44 years since blacks had any RIGHTS at all, and the Voting Rights Act wasn’t passed until 1965. Forget about the right to vote, there are living blacks that weren’t allowed to eat at restaurants, get jobs, and would even have to step off the curb when whites past. Black men being called BOY! You entire statement of sexism permeating every demographic may be true, but 43 years ago white women could go and do as they please. Sexism is a part of our culture, but don’t ignore the masses of black men being imprisoned and still being treated as 2nd class citizens in this country.
By Recap
June 5, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
Roc - You’re saying that Republican’s shouldn’t bring up Obama’s lack of experience because Democrats didn’t bring up Bush’s lack of experience in 2000? They did bring it up. And you think Republicans shouldn’t bring up the Rezko issue because Democrats didn’t bring up Enron or Halliburton? Well, they did - and do - bring up Enron and Halliburton. You just included W, Hillary, Gore, Halliburton, Enron, Harvard Law Review, Big Oil, and Obama’s grandmother to 1) sling mud and 2) make your point. I’m not sure why you’re so angry - both sides have ammunition and both are quite willing to use it. Grow up. It’s annoying to hear Democrats whine about mudslinging while they’re engaging in it.
By DaveD
June 5, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
wait until we talk about how mcLame divorced he wife…while she laid ther dying of cancer…to marry a billionaire’s daughter… good moral values right? Obama and his wife came from nothing…just like Bill Clinton… he was driven to make himself better…
Bright up pastors all you want…what they had to say…
Play the card… but it’s well documented that McLame cheated on his dying wife with some rich b*** while she was on her death bed…
Wanna play that game?!
You lose…
Cindy Mclame should only have “half” the brain Obama’s wife does… a smart woman… who too… is the kind of woman we need in the white house.
We do NOT need another Nancy Reagan (puppet girl) buying new china…
Bring on hte debates…town hall…however Mclame wants them… he’ll look like an idiot… He’s NOT an IDIOT… but he is “nothing” compared to Obama when it simply comes down to pure wisdom and smarts…
Jim? After november…and next January when Obama is sworn in…i can not WAIT to read your posts…
Let’s talk about the education system in GA for a change…
As I can bring one (or several) up from the past…where you said…that SONNY was going to “fix it”…. hmmm…loved the article about 58% of GA students graduating on time yesterday…
Go after Obama…
GA does not even come into play in the national race…
watch how many times McLame visits…
in fact…how many times has he even BEEN here over the past year?
By Patman
June 5, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
By Quit Blaming Whites
(((You’ve got a GREAT BIG racial chip on your shoulder.)))
I notice how any black man who dares call out a wingnut on his/her ignorance goes there with that accusation. I don’t have any chip on my shoulder.
I just don’t have any use for whiny angry little white boys who can’t stand the thought of things not going their way anymore.
(((You think everything in your life boils down to the fact you are black, and now Obama is going to provide you with the vindication you yearn for to slam everyone who ever “put you down”.)))
Absolutely not. Obama’s success alone, before and during this campaign, are undeniable proof that America has come a long way and that the American dream is there for everyone. Unfortunately we still have a long way to go in terms of eracicating racism and ignorance and Wooten, Limbaugh and his dittoheads and YOU are living proof of that.
(((Good lord man. If you only knew how far whites have come from your thinking.)))
Many, I dare say most, whites have come a long way from that way of thinking. Lord knows you aren’t one of them.
(((Why not give up your victimization mindset and get on with your life. We’ll both be happier for it.)))
Not only do I not have a victimization mindset, I am living a good happy life. You obviously didn’t read what I wrote with an open mind, oops….., I forgot I’m dealing with an ignorant wingnut and reading and thinking for yourself isn’t one of your characteristics. In another hour it will be time for rush Limbaugh’s show I guess you’ll be getting off this blog soon so that you can be told what to think, how to think and how to express it. Hopefully you’ll grow up soon and learn to do that for yourself.
By DaveD
June 5, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
boy i need to start proof reading as my typing skills suck…i’m waiting for my china keyboard…. ;-)
By Roc Returns
June 5, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
RECAP at 11:07 a.m.
Bring it up? I know the Dems brought it up and the Republicans carried the day because the Republicans didn’t think any of this stuff was a fatal flaw. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, the sky is falling because the Republican pundits and silly citizenry think a politician with 11 years of experience between the State of Illinois (one rough political venue) and the United States Senate does not have enough experience to govern. You’re kidding me right?
Curious George had a total of 6 years experience in STATE government, but the Republicans didn’t say a peep.
By the way, Hillary only had 6 years of experience as an elected official. She’s soooooooooo experienced, right?
Lest we not forget that McLame wasn’t strong enough to beat the Governing Retard in 2000. How’s that for the value of experience?
Obama in ‘08!
By getalife
June 5, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
Blindly supporting two Senators who are part of the broken government and expecting them to fix a broken government is insane.
The Senate is corporate corrupt.
Take telcom immunity for example. The Senators voted to give them immunity without knowing what law they broke.
Americans are very gullible and this election is much ado about nothing.
By JK
June 5, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Chicago, I respectfully acknowledge your historical reference to civil rights issues in this country. I’m a life-long southern white Democrat who, (though only an infant in the 60s), has always abhorred the supression of my black neighbors through the corruption of government or any other societal factor. Not every Southern family was on board with racial inequality. Many worked along side MLK, John Lewis, and the other heroes of the day.
Your assumption, however, that 43 years ago white women could do as they please is simply not true. (Job opportunities, reproductive choices, etc.) Ask any woman who was 20, 30, or 40 years old in the 50s or 60’s. Even in the 80’s, sexual harrassment and inequity in the workplace was something I encountered regularly, though we didn’t call it harrassment then, we called it “WEEKDAYS.”
By Political Foreskin
June 5, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
More forgettable nonsense from the right. The Repunditcans have spun themselves into a death spiral over the primaries. Look at them. Their exhausted and they dont know why. I think it’s a fatal case of ad pablum nauseum. (there’s an epidemic of that, you know, it mutated from formerly harmless avian chicken hawk jaundiced journalism)
Obama 08: A Man. An American. A President.
Hillary 08: 16 years! 16 years!
McCain 08: a museum piece of ad pablum nauseum.
By Peaches
June 5, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
Obama is going to run on a platform of undefined change. He is going to be a stealth candidate, hoping that the people will not find out his policies and plans for America. His real agenda has been nicely concealed by the MSM as most American’s don’t realize that he is going to jack up your taxes, massively increase social spending and pursue a more naive foreign policy. In short, his plan is to recycle the Carter presidency. The MSM will strive mightily to conceal the truth from America and in the end will be mostly successful. However, Obama’s failed policies of the past will still fail. He will have a two year run, a disaster at midterm and a long lame duck job to infamous obscurity. Unfortunately you and I will pay the price for the coming train wreck.
By Roc Returns
June 5, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
PEOPLE, PEOPLE, PEOPLE…
LET’S NOT GET INTO A DEBATE ABOUT WHO HAD IT ROUGHER, WOMEN OR AFRICAN AMERICANS? WOMEN AND AFRICAN AMERICANS WERE MISTREATED AND ABUSED AND CONTINUE TO BE TO THIS DAY.
DON’T FALL FOR THE DIVIDE AND CONQUER MENTALITY!!!
I’M WAITING FOR THE DAY THAT ALL MINORITIES UNDERSTAND THAT IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS, WE ARE ALL SIMILARLY SITUATED AND WANT THE SAME THINGS OUT OF LIFE. WHEN WILL WE DECIDE TO BAN TOGETHER TO KNOCK THE CURRENT POWER STRUCTURE ON ITS SIDE AND FOREVER CHANGE THE STATUS QUO.
I’M NOT RACIST AND HAVE NOTHING AGAINST MOST WHITE MALES. ITS THOSE IGNORANT ONES THAT FEEL ENTITLED TO RULE THE WORLD THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH.
AFRICAN AMERICANS, WOMEN, HISPANICS, ASIANS, INDIANS AND ALL OTHER MINORITIES SHOULD COME TOGETHER TO CHANGE THIS SOCIETY.
CARPE DIEM!!!
By recap
June 5, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
Roc - It’s reasonable to bring up experience - for any candidate. Voters decide who they’ll vote for after they process the info - for validity, common sense, whatever floats their boat. I don’t have a problem with Obama and his candidacy. But ranting about an election 8 years ago to deflect what you think might be happening to your candidate this year… And then slinging in some mud to top it off. My point is not that you can’t or shouldn’t do that, if you choose. I just think it’s funny to hear you whine about mudslinging when you’re engaging in it.
By Leigh
June 5, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
I cannot overstate my disdain for the dismissive and diminishing tone that many in the “majority” community espouse with comments such as,
“Obama is easily the more media-savvy. Too, he’s an inspiring public speaker…It’ll be awfully easy for the media, and for the rest of us, to get swept up in style over substance.”
You choice of language suggests to those who may still be undecided, especially Clinton supporters that may switch to McCain, that Obama lacks substance and that McCain may be boring but clearly must be the more substantive candidate. This type of “messaging” is not only cliche and uninspired, it is also divisive, and if this is the best you can come up with, perhaps you should put your pencil/pen down as you are only adding to the useless rhetoric many of your colleagues resort to as a way to undermine Barack Obama who is offering a bold new vision and is equipped with the intellectual and diplomatic wherewithal to lead our country out of this economic morass of the last eight years.
By Chicago
June 5, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
JK
43 years ago white women could go into any restaurant they wanted, didn’t have fire hoses sprayed on them, and weren’t being treated as animals. That was the premise of my argument. I believe during those times it was customary for women to be housewives (my grandmother was called a domestic because she cleaned a white womans house, who by the way was a housewife).
I’m not a woman so I haven’t experienced sexual harassment in the workplace, but being a black man I have experience the inequity of being paid less than a white man for the same job and I have been harassed by the police on more than a few occassions. I respectfully say that there is no way you can compare the two. Being called sweetie at work and slammed to the ground by the police cannot be equated.
By Lauren
June 5, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
You guys on the right better be careful how much you call folks on the other side of the political aisle “domestic enemies.” This tactic has backfired before and will backfire again. You should not be so high and mighty after such a mighty failure of the Bush administration. Get ready for more rejection!
By Dutchman
June 5, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
Well for this conservative, since Jimmy Carter endorses BHO, I will absolutely vote for McCain.
BHO will tax the working man to death, at least McCain won’t raise taxes as much as BHO.
BTW, since Global warming stopped 10 years ago, I guess it doesn’t matter how big this carbon based lifeform’s footprint is.
By Sue S.
June 5, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
I’m younger than Gloria Steinem but after this primary I don’t believe they’ll be a female president in my lifetime either. Very sad! Maybe in my daughter’s lifetime… I absolutely agree that Senator Obama got a free pass from the media who seemed more interested in manipulating the process than reporting on it. I find it interesting that the media (even Mr. Wooten) calls Senator Clinton Hillary instead of using her last name as is done with the male candidates. It is a lack of respect. Voters need to be reading a variety of news sources to try to dig out the facts. I sure feel foolish for just counting on the AJC for my news as I did in the past.
By Lauren
June 5, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Chicago, I sympathize with the troubles of black people in this country and I agree with you on many of your points. I am an Obama supporter, as well, not because he is black, but because he is the best person for the job. However, his success is a great triumph for all black people in this country and I am very happy for that. I will say though, as a woman, I can tell you that women have faced far worse things than being called “sweetie” at work. I am not saying we have suffered more than black people, I am not trying to make it a contest about that on any level, but you trivialize our struggle by saying something like that and I don’t think that is very respectful. We, too, get paid less for the same work, we had to struggle to gain the right to vote and have control over our own bodies, we have been beaten by our husbands and boyfriends who were, in turn, not punished by the police for abusing us, and we face the risk of rape and abuse when we go out alone at night. Like I said, I am not saying we can compare our pain to yours, but it goes far deeper than just being called “sweetie” at work. Please.
By saywhat?
June 5, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
by zeke You are an un American, biased idiot! One day, soon, all you idiots will be begging to have another President as honest, truthful, down to earth and stedfast in his committment to protect and defend the USA from enemies both foreign and domestic(democrats and liberals), as W.!!! Yeah, right after monkeys flight out of my butt. I think you meant to say that one day all us honest, truthful down to earth and steadfast defenders of the USA will be thankful not to have idiots (republicans and conservatives) destroying our beloved country, like W.
By HIDT
June 5, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
Three reasons to quit this blog:
1.) It wastes my time and gives little back, other than some slight amusement at some of the humorous things written and learning something from the more thoughtful posts by jbmlaw and Southern Democrat.
2.) Too much chest thumping tripe from left and right and not enough substance – which is the exact thing we get from the Madison Avenue run campaigns. Boy advertising is a powerful thing.
3.) See No. 1.
I’ll not be missed, I am stfu and gfy, er, m. Best to all.
By Me
June 5, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
Obama is just warmed over 1960’s nostalgia. I guess he would say I’m being devisive though, huh?
By Redneck Convert
June 5, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
Well, I feel like such a Manly Man today after they put the needle to that guy last night, I eat two cans of chicken weenies for lunch.
I see Those People and the women on this blog have turned the argument into a fuss about which one was most put upon in the past. Well, I got a solution for you. Those People can grab a lawn mower and take care of my yard and the women can wash my clothes.
Anyhow, if I was the old man McCain I would do everything I could to keep from ever giving a speech again. That way he won’t get blasted again by godly conservatives and the libruls. So a town hall meeting sounds like a winner. He can just mumble along and not have to read from one of them screens that shows his speech. And since he don’t have no money and Obama has millions he can get free ads by being showed on TV without paying nothing.
I can’t figure out why the conservatives ain’t giving nothing to McCain. Maybe they think he’s rich or something and don’t need nothing.
Have a good day everybody.
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
June 5, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
Hi Jim,
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush and his top policymakers exaggerated Saddam Hussein’s links to terrorism and ignored doubts among intelligence agencies about Iraq’s arms programs as they made their case for war, a Senate committee reported on Thursday.
The Senate intelligence committee said in a study that major Bush administration statements that Iraq had a partnership with al Qaeda and provided it with weapons training were unsupported by intelligence, and sometimes contradicted it.
It also said statements on Iraq’s weapons before the March 2003 U.S.-led invasion were substantiated in most cases by available U.S. intelligence, but that they failed to reflect internal debate over those findings.
The long-delayed Senate study supported previous reports and findings that the administration’s main case for war — that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction — was inaccurate and deeply flawed.
“The president and his advisors undertook a relentless public campaign in the aftermath of the (September 11, 2001) attacks to use the war against al Qaeda as a justification for overthrowing Saddam Hussein,” intelligence committee Chairman John Rockefeller said in written commentary on the report.
By DaveD
June 5, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this
Dutchman…explain THIS: (NASA under Bubble Boy)…
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NasaNews/2008/2008051426748.html
Stop reading and listening to those that give “no facts”…as the facts are right before you..
Do you think it’s OK to just spew pollution into the air? That it has no result?
Hmmm…
You’re probably one that believes the earth is 6000-10,000 years old…
Show me YOUR “proof”…your science..
I’m waiting…
(yet I might be busy reading in today’s news about how in 30% of the school systems around the US…the very ones that teach “abinence”…how young teen girls are STILL confused as to HOW they get pregnant…)…
By DaveD
June 5, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
once again…sorry for “not” proof reading and checking my spelling…
yet I await your “results” …i DO!!!
where’s Dish Rag today?>!
By Grammarian
June 5, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
Don’t worry about your spelling DaveD, nobody reads your sh!t anyway…
By getalife
June 5, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
While gullible Americans have been mindlessly hating the Clintons, the corporate media have stopped covering Iraq.
w will declare victory again to make McCain a war hero again.
The permanant campaign will continue for the gop to hold power in the WH.
Obama will lose.
By DaveD
June 5, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
gee…’grmmarian”…you DID! I bet you voted for Bubble Boy…TWICE!!! Good choice…as we “liberals” rasie taxes….
explain the surplus handed over to Bubble BOY and how we now have the “largest deficit” in US history…
Yeah…you “conservative” are SOOOO very good with our tax dollars….
Only when you hand them over with a bulldozer right into the hands of your friends like Halliburton, KBR, and co…
Make us “much much safer!
Sorry…I need to go read “my pet goat”..as I feel a “threat” is coming our way….
PS: Please explain the 8 BILLION dollars that are missing…just from last month…had written invoices…and funny…they are ALL written by Bush/Cheney supporters…
not ONE invoice from a dem. company…
Largest DEBT in the world…OWED BY THE “flag waving US of A”…AWESOME!!!
PRAISE ALLAH>!!! as SAUDI ARABIA..has NO debt!!!
YAY!!!
gays are STILL gay! abortions are STILL legal…
I need to find me a girl to have an abortion….see ya later!!!!
By AmVet
June 5, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
That post at 10:10 should be printed on every national newspaper int his country.
Kudos, HappyVoter!
And Abomi, I luvs your stuff, especially that 10:23!
Lauren, at 12:43, be careful.
Senator Obama is not black. Nor African-American, nor whatever the nom de plume is these days…
Let me repeat myself.
OBAMA IS NOT BLACK.
Unless you consider his mother nothing more than a petri dish.
He is a mulatto.
You may feel I am splitting hairs here, but this is very important to me. His Kansas (Rock, Chalk, Jayhawk!) mother was as white as this Jayhawker. To completely dismiss her and her role in his life is just plain wrong.
Moving on. (dot org?)
All of this inane Republican posturing is senseless. And futile.
These are the facts and they are irrefutable.
The GOP got absolutely humiliated in the last election. To the tune of history making humiliation.
The GOP got absolutely humiliated in this past primary season. Every single neo-con candidate was a thorough embarrassment.
The GOP is now attracting less money and losing more voters than they have in the past 25 years.
The GOP has over two dozen existing members of Congress (and growing) who are not seeking reelection.
I have one question for these misguided and misnamed conservatives?
Why?
Hint: The answer cannot be found on a banner, in a slogan or consist of childishly simple explanations.
Good luck, neo-cons. November is quickly approaching…
By Question
June 5, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this
Amvet - You constantly proclaim the expected demise of the GOP. You illustrate with facts and figures - both past and present - and even give us a hint as to what the future holds for the GOP. I’m an independent voter and would like to know how you think democracy should look, since you seem certain of its inevitable change. Should we have only 1 political party? Two parties with the same basic ideas, platforms, etc? Only policital parties that don’t offend you?
By deegee
June 5, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
The reason that McCain comes across as boring is because he is programmed by his campaign staff, and is careful about staying in the middle of the road. Barack Obama speaks extemporaneously and is quick on his feet. Town Hall meetings should be a breeze for Obama. Didn’t MCCain compose “Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran” during a town hall meeting?
By JoAnne
June 5, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
Isn’t it a commentary on the intelligence of the American public that concerns like race and sex override the issues that really affect them, like positions on welfare, taxes, capital gains rollbacks and other things. Until the voter gets his/her head out of her .. and reads rather than reacts we are stuck with personality politics so we are getting what we deserve.
By Neo-cons McChimpyHalliburtonCheneyHitler warmonger
June 5, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
Dear HIDT @ 12:18, I truly hate to see you leave. Now that Glenn is gone, you and PoFo were the best things left on the blog (well, ok, in addition to friends Southern Dem and Shar and @@ and Dusty and a few others.) There is routinely a gentle and intelligent thread on the blog on a daily basis – illigitimi non caborondum. I will cede to you my former blog name, if that will keep you. (Are you sure you are not Grammarian? That surely sounded like you.)
Dear JaCP @ 12:37, say it isn’t so, a Democrat says Bush lied? I’m shocked. Breaking news, thanks for sharing. What a stupid argument by the senate partisan – there was internal debate and Bush finally chose between the perspectives by siding with the Clintonistas that preceded him – thus he lied. I suppose there is some logic there, Clinton was known to be a serial liar, thus Bush should have known everything the democrats had said before his administration was untrue.
By AmVet
June 5, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
Question Mark & The Mysterians,
Nope, no political monopolies for me.
Nor, political duopolies.
Wake up. The game is rigged.
You, nor most of the American people, may not want to look at it, much less admit it, but it is.
That is very painfulk for most Americans but this is not anything new.
The loss of trust in and basic effective governance, as defined by the Dems and the GOP, is not really debatable anymore.
These two corrupt machines ensure no one, and I mean no one, gets a chance to get into their game.
They will never willingly cede any of their ill-begotten very well paid for power.
And no seems willing, much less adamant, about forcing them to clean up their putrid acts, so you and I are the losers.
And frankly my “views” are irrelevant, Q.
I’ve considered this for a very long time and have drawn my own conclusions.
Every and any one else will have to find their own way and I ask no one to follow me.
But for a hint I voted against both the Democratic and Republican candidates in the past two elections. And I have never voted for a Republican-lite, I mean Libertarian, in my life.
Good luck in YOUR search…
By TruthHurts
June 5, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush and his top policymakers exaggerated Saddam Hussein’s links to terrorism and ignored doubts among intelligence agencies about Iraq’s arms programs as they made their case for war, a Senate committee reported on Thursday.
The Senate intelligence committee said in a study that major Bush administration statements that Iraq had a partnership with al Qaeda and provided it with weapons training were unsupported by intelligence, and sometimes contradicted it.
It also said statements on Iraq’s weapons before the March 2003 U.S.-led invasion were substantiated in most cases by available U.S. intelligence, but that they failed to reflect internal debate over those findings.
The report also cited at least one statement — by then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, that the Iraqi government operated underground weapons of mass destruction facilities — that was not backed up by intelligence information.
LIARS
By AmVet
June 5, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
Q, one last clarification on the topic before I have to run.
I do not seek nor advocate the END of either political party.
Just their self-serving and inept stranglehold on the American people.
And your inference is correct; the Republican Party is going nowhere. As is the case with the Democrats.
My goal is to advocate that unless and until they have one enormous epiphany that they are more and more irrelevant.
By SBOAT
June 5, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
WOW! I thought this blog would have at least a few open minded people on it.
What a collection of hateful,elitest, narrow minded liberals.
Oh wait… hateful, elitest and narrow minded are the definition of liberals.
By DaveD
June 5, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
gee…’grmmarian”…you DID! I bet you voted for Bubble Boy…TWICE!!! Good choice…as we “liberals” rasie taxes….
explain the surplus handed over to Bubble BOY and how we now have the “largest deficit” in US history…
Yeah…you “conservative” are SOOOO very good with our tax dollars….
Only when you hand them over with a bulldozer right into the hands of your friends like Halliburton, KBR, and co…
Make us “much much safer!
Sorry…I need to go read “my pet goat”..as I feel a “threat” is coming our way….
PS: Please explain the 8 BILLION dollars that are missing…just from last month…had written invoices…and funny…they are ALL written by Bush/Cheney supporters…
not ONE invoice from a dem. company…
Largest DEBT in the world…OWED BY THE “flag waving US of A”…AWESOME!!!
PRAISE ALLAH>!!! as SAUDI ARABIA..has NO debt!!!
YAY!!!
gays are STILL gay! abortions are STILL legal…
I need to find me a girl to have an abortion….see ya later!!!!
By Question
June 5, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
Amvet - thank you for your answer. That was the most concise, reasoned, and understandable thing I’ve seen you write. When you leave out some of the vitriol, it’s much easier to follow. And I agree with a lot of what you believe, but am not as disillusioned as you. I’m okay with that. And I hope you learn to see past the failings of humans and politics and find the good that may come from trying to work with both - humans and politics. It’s difficult, but surely better than constant cynicism?
By DaveD
June 5, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
gee…’grmmarian”…you DID! I bet you voted for Bubble Boy…TWICE!!! Good choice…as we “liberals” rasie taxes….
explain the surplus handed over to Bubble BOY and how we now have the “largest deficit” in US history…
Yeah…you “conservative” are SOOOO very good with our tax dollars….
Only when you hand them over with a bulldozer right into the hands of your friends like Halliburton, KBR, and co…
Make us “much much safer!
Sorry…I need to go read “my pet goat”..as I feel a “threat” is coming our way….
PS: Please explain the 8 BILLION dollars that are missing…just from last month…had written invoices…and funny…they are ALL written by Bush/Cheney supporters…
not ONE invoice from a dem. company…
Largest DEBT in the world…OWED BY THE “flag waving US of A”…AWESOME!!!
PRAISE ALLAH>!!! as SAUDI ARABIA..has NO debt!!!
YAY!!!
gays are STILL gay! abortions are STILL legal…
I need to find me a girl to have an abortion….see ya later!!!!
By ron
June 5, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
Moving right along,I see that Clayton County had a teacher that threatened to "rip your eyeballs out".This was apparently addressed to one of the more dearer of students.Some progress is being made down there.Rip the head off too and hang it up in the classroom.The rest will get the message.Farmers have to do that with crows.Hang up the whole crow,you know.By Copyleft
June 5, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
Oh wait… hateful, elitest and narrow minded are the definition of conservatives.
Fixed that for you, SBoat.
By grammarian
June 5, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
DaveD
{{explain the surplus handed over to Bubble BOY and how we now have the “largest deficit” in US history…)))
As ALL federal spending bills must originate in the House of Representatives, I would attribute the federal surplus during the Clinton years to Newt Gingrich and the House Republicans. Clinton signed the spending bills like the astute lapdog he is.
HOWEVER, for a more local example of fiscal IRRESPONSIBILITY in DEMO-RAT administrations I give you this recent gem from the City of Atlanta.
When the going gets tough, the Demo-rats abandon ship.
Now, with Bill Campbell’s and Shirley Franklin’s fiscal fiascos in Atlanta (as all-too-common examples), you can understand why many Americans find the prospect of a LEFTIST Obama administration REPUGNANT.
By Peter
June 5, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
Well You have to love our King George, not only is he the biggest spender in the history of America…..so much for being “conservative”, but he did it all while lying to AMERICA!
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush and his top policymakers misstated Saddam Hussein’s links to terrorism and ignored doubts among intelligence agencies about Iraq’s arms programs as they made a case for war, the Senate intelligence committee reported on Thursday.
So today we find Bush and Cheney and the Gang, just flay out lied to us about the WAR in Iraq.
Gee what a finding?
They have now spent $600 Billion, and it looks like in the end it will cost America over 1 trillion dollars.
Please explain where the “Conservative” is in those numbers?
Also where is the Iraq Oil money?
The country and most of the citizens are having financial difficulties, along with inflation going through the roof….go buy gas, or groceries for example.
Now how in the world is ANYONE expected to believe that NEXT group of Republicans, are “Actually going to tell us the HONEST TRUTH?”
And the funniest part of all of this, they are trying to “SPIN”, they are concerned about the safety of Americans!
They do say that, but I then they will give you a FEMA trailer, so you can get a good dose of cancer from living there.
Oh by the way thank GOD they “WRONGS” didn’t get their wish, to have our PORTS run by foreign entities!
HA HA HA Jim Whooten, lemmings ready to jump!
Dusty have you got your parachute yet?
If it doesn’t open, I am sure someone will tell you it was a “Intelligence Error”!
HA HA HA
By Roc Returns
June 5, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
Democrat…Republican…Liberal…Conservative…DAMN INCOMPETENCE COMES IN MANY SHAPES AND SIZES. ITS SO EASY TO TACK ON AND GENERALIZE ABOUT THE PARTIES, BUT LET’S LOOK AT EACH CANDIDATE FOR WHAT HE REPRESENTS.
MCCAIN REPRESENTS EXPERIENCES OF THE PAST AND HE’S A CAREER POLITICIAN. HE COULDN’T BEAT BUSH IN 2000, BUT ALL OF A SUDDEN, HE’S THE SAVIOR OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. THE SAME GUY THAT COULDN’T BEAT “W”. WOW!!! IF YOU LOST TO “W”, THAT SAYS A TON ABOUT YOU, INCLUDING AL GORE.
OBAMA HAS NOT TAKEN MONEY FROM LOBBYIST. HE’S A WELL-TRAVELED AND VERY WELL-VERSED INTELLECTUAL THAT ACTUALLY HAS STUDIED THE CONSTITUTION AND UNDERSTANDS IT. HE WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL IN ILLINOIS POLITICS, WHICH IS NO SMALL MEASURE. HE HAS A MIXED ETHNICITY AND WAS RAISED BY WHITE GRANDPARENTS, SO HE SEES BOTH SIDES OF THE RACE DEBATE. HE’S FOCUSED ON THE FUTURE AND NOT THE PAST.
THE CHOICE IS YOURS! DON’T BE SILLY!
By Blind Homer
June 5, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
Wooten is right on this one. The 527 SBoat specialists will do the dirty work. Obama has several flaws to attack, Rev. Wright, Michelle the racist wife, Rezko, etc. Worst of all he appears to be little more than an empty suit with lovely speeches reminiscent of JFK, but with little real substance.
By DaveD
June 5, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
keep telling yourself “newt” was the one…
but than tell me that “dems” are to blame for the record deficit as well…
Praise ALLAH…the ONLY one to “save” you..
do you think that YOUR logic is “correct my friend? Hmmm…
ALL gods are faulty at best…
even the “idols” our teens worship to…
the only cause for this “effect” (as to our record deficit) was the things put in place before dems took control…
and NO…Clinton/Gore…WROTE our economic policy that pushed our country ahead…
either way….no matter what you say…
we handed over a “surplus” of cash to Bubble Boy…
and who was in “total control”??? all 3 houses?
hmmm….yup!
republicans…. the “worst” that our tax dollars have…spend spend spend…
let me ask…..who “pays it back”..?
tax breaks for the wealthy?
tax breaks for the oil companies?
our cash given with “no bids” to Halliburtion and their friends?
This country was ruined by YOUR VOTE!!!
By grammarian
June 5, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
DaveD
I erred - I actually, though only partially, read some of your illiterate sh!t.
My bad.
Nobody OUGHT to have to read that sh!t.
By AmVet
June 5, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
Q, thanks for the sage reminder.
Funny, but in “real” life I am most decidedly non-cynical!
I guess for me, it’s just the frustration with politics.
And a lot of Robert Kennedy via George Bernard Shaw - Some men see things as they are and ask why, I dream things that never were and ask why not.
Liberal or conservative, Democratic, Republican, Libertarian or anarchist, I have no doubt that most Americans are outstanding people.
We are ALL blessed and I try to never forget that.
[Fade out to strains of America the Beautiful]
By Ian
June 5, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
Obama on the issues:
1.Supports affirmative action in colleges and government. (Jul 1998)
2.Have a civil rights division enforce laws fairly and justly. (Jan 2008)
3.Battles legislatively against the death penalty. (Jul 2004)
4.No extra penalty for gang association. (Oct 2007)
5.Meet with enemy leaders; it’s a disgrace that we have not. (Jul 2007)
6.FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
7.Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
8.Address minority health needs by more coverage & targeting. (Mar 2007)
9.Immigration raids are ineffective. (Feb 2008)
10.Voted YES on continuing federal funds for declared “sanctuary cities”. (Mar 2008)
11.Support granting driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants. (Nov 2007)
12.Don’t deputize Americans to turn in illegal immigrants. (Dec 2007)
13.OK to provide government services in Spanish. (Dec 2007)
14.Health plan: not enough resources for illegal immigrants. (Jan 2008)
15.Support the DREAM Act for the children of illegal immigrants. (Jan 2008)
16.Voted NO on declaring English as the official language of the US government. (Jun 2007)
17.Provide funding for social services for noncitizens. (May 2006)
18.Voted YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security. (May 2006)
19.Extend welfare and Medicaid to immigrants. (Jul 1998)
20.Voted NO on establishing reserve funds & pre-funding for Social Security. (Mar 2007)
IS THIS THE KIND OF “CHANGE” THAT YOU WANT IN THIS COUNTRY???!!!!!!
By "Charles", The Original
June 5, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
“In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”
Thomas Jefferson
In many political circles, the Constitution of the United States is view as a worthless piece of paper.
By OhmyF'g God
June 5, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
grammarian
You CANNOT be serious right?
I take it you have totally forgotten about the Republican administration that has given us a $10 trillion debt, a massive trade deficit, $4gallon gasoline, a collapsed mortgage industry, and an airline industry that is on life support.
But we all know what you truly want to say.
By Dave
June 5, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
If Obama wins and the democrates win both houses. After four years, the won’t be a democratic party although there may not be a country left either.
By OhmyF'g God
June 5, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
grammarian
You CANNOT be serious right?
I take it you have totally forgotten about the Republican administration that has given us a $10 trillion debt, a massive trade deficit, $4gallon gasoline, a collapsed mortgage industry, and an airline industry that is on life support.
But we all know what you truly want to say.
By SayNo2McCain
June 5, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
DAVE,
I hate to be the one to tell you, but there’s not much of a country left already. We have more problems today, than we had 8 years ago.
I’m spending more in GAS, FOOD, etc… I’m not any safer than I was in 2000 and NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND is a national disater.
Go OBAMA!!!!!!
By deegee
June 5, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
Hello Ian, to answer your question, YES. The American people had a chance to vote for the “round ‘em up and deport ‘em” candidates. They all lost.
By SayNo2McCain
June 5, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
DAVE,
I hate to be the one to tell you, but there’s not much of a country left already. We have more problems today, than we had 8 years ago.
I’m spending more in GAS, FOOD, etc… I’m not any safer than I was in 2000 and NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND is a national disater.
Go OBAMA!!!!!!
By Dusty
June 5, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Oh, the libs here have it all sharpened to a fine point. Here’s their “direction”.
Bush, Congress, Cheney, Generals, UK, France, CIA, British INtel, UN were ALL LIARS. Yes, sir, it was all “cooked up”. Top drawer loony libs decided that Bush set up 9/11 and NO PLANE hit the Pentagon either. They ‘reason’ that Bush OWNS all oil wells in Saudi Arabia and he wanted top dollar. AND…Saddam was a “nice” man with a few faults that should have had a good “talking to”. No need to get huffy about it.
And now comes McCain. The Cook up Something School has started stirring mud already. What a shame. What a waste. Would a resonable Democrat please speak up??
By Peter
June 5, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Gosh Dusty do you have a clue?
Yes the Bush family IS in OIL.
YES the Bush family is friends with the Bin Ladens.
Yes Bush and Cheney Lied about the WMDs.
Yes they lied about the connection of Bin Laden and Saddam.
Yes they have spent more money than any other President, and created the largest Government ever.
Yes they gave away huge contracts to their Haliburton buddies.
Yes they have created the largest debt in American History.
Yes they allowed FEMA trailers to be used that are now causing cancer in the families, especially the children that live in them.
AND Finally Yes…… who know if McCain will continue to do the same thing!
By THE CATHOLIC HAMMER
June 5, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
The Democrats have shot themselves in the head, this is the end.
They have decided “winning” is nominating the Black Guy, and not actually gaining the presidency. If the Democrats cared to field a candidate that can win an election for President, they would have nominated John Edwards. The problem with Edwards was two: he was White, and he was a male. Identity politics run the modern Democrat Party, and the liberal elites sided with the Blacks against both the White man and the White woman. Now we must endure 4 more years of a Republican President. Thanks for nothing, Dumbocrats.
By grammanian
June 5, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
Oh!My!Panties!Are!In!A!Wad
I gave some cogent examples of all-too-common DEMO-RAT mismanagement in local Atlanta government - criminal mismanagement in Campbell’s case. You did not respond to those facts but rather went into the rather predicKtable LEFTIST epithet-spewing, chip-on-my-girl-like-shoulders tirade which precedes and reveals the non sequitur in all LEFTIST illogic.
To the LEFTIST brain dead among you, federal governments always have outstanding debt. The more relevant measure of U.S. debt (or any other country’s) outstanding is how much debt the country carries RELATIVE to its GDP. When viewed in this light, the U.S. federal deficit is smaller than most Western economies including Germany, the UK, France, Ireland, Belgium, Italy, et al. It is only slightly larger than Canada’s.
Now, change your Depends and quit your whining.
By grammarian
June 5, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Correction in paragraph 2
..the U.S. federal debt is smaller than most Western economies…
By Blind Homer
June 5, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
OnMyF’g - Sorry to disappoint you, but the sky isn’t exactly falling. The debt and trade deficit mean very little as all those U.S. dollars will eventually have to be spent right back here on U.S. goods and services. Yeah, food and particulary gas are up, and the gas is hurting the airline industry. So what? You can still get a flight to Vegas tomorrow if you need to go. It might cost a little more but two years ago it cost the same as it did 20 years ago! The industry needed some rate hikes. I don’t see any masses of people in the parks and under the bridges that have been displaced by the collapsed mortgage industry. Unemployment is a little over 5%, which is nothing. In 1975 it was over 10%. I don’t see masses of homeless, starving citizens. Virtually everyone that wants to work still has a roof over their head, food in their belly, more often too much rather than too little, and gas in their tanks. Every day thousands of Americans from all walks of lives are lining up all around the country to enjoy themselves at ballgames, amusement parks, and casinos. So spare me the ruined, disastrous economy nonsense. We’re having some needed corrections in a few markets, like oil going up and housing coming down, but it’s not the endd of life as we know it.
By Peter
June 5, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
That is what you gotta love about the Right wingers………all is OK with the world we live in.
I guess we should all give King George the Big Pardon for lying about all.
Gee let’s look at the “Conservative numbers” when we compare Clinton and Bush.
Clinton gets his Cheney sucked, and we have a $20 Million spent by the Republican’s trying to get him out.
Yes Clinton lied, cost to US $20 Million.
Bush Lied, no WMD, Democrat’s not wasting money trying to get Bush out, just out of Iraq.
Yes Bush Lied, cost to the US $600 Billion and rising.
Very interesting “Conservative Numbers”.
Please tell me where the “Right Wing” gets the thought, that they are actually Fiscally Conservative?
Yes let’s believe the SAME folks that got us here in the fist place, will Magically get us out of all.
By joe
June 5, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
Do you guys here not realize that we have to bow down to the jews in this country and that anyone who is a threat to israel we are going to be forced into war with? forget democrat or republican, you have been brainwashed. obama has already started his bowing down to try and get elected.
By The Wire
June 5, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
Washington - Satan turned down an offer to run with McCain Thursday. “McCain’s a liberal loser,” he said, “is there really no way to get Bush a third term?”
By OhmyF'g God
June 5, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
As for me? I’m cool. I have a 6 figure annual household and am doing just fine and have nothing to whine about.
Doesn’t mean I don’t recognize the reality of the f’d up situation the current administration has put us in.
I’m not the one wearing my fingers out with the brainwashed right wing dissertations.
Now shut up and be the b!t—-s you are and suck up the fact that a CHANGE is comin’! LOL!!!!
By DaveD
June 5, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
hey joe…. keep blaming the jews… no, this has “nothing” to do with having the “worst and most corrupt” administration in US history… that has no regard for the constitution and the laws for which our country is both based off of and was founded…
nope…you’re right…it’s the “jews” fault…
you friggin’ kkk nazi pr!ck! (I’ll guess your daddy wore a sheet over his head, did he not)? sissy!!!
By HCRobb
June 6, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
Mr. Wooten, The Republican Party’s strength from 1968 on has been Racisim. Oh sure occasionally you added sexism and gay bashing, but Race was your trump card. It was a rich seam while it lasted but I believe it finally ran out.
2008 will be the year that the Conservative (read White supremacy) tide will finally turn. You and your kind are finished, and America will finally live up to its promise.
God Bless America, the Civil War is finally over!!!