Thinking Right

By jbmlaw

May 28, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this

Good morning all. I think Jim Wooten hit the issue about right. The Boy Scouts have an inviolate right to set their membership and affiliate standards any way they wish. The overlords of the City of Philadelphia have the absolute right to steal taxpayer funds and misuse those any way the predators wish. The Boy Scouts deal with such entities of low morality at their peril. Intelligent leadership of the Scouts would impel severance of all relations with the immoral overlords. However, as many not-for-profits suffer with the mediocre management that often arises from the lack of profit incentive, one should not make any forecasts on the likely reaction of the charity. The worst alternative of all would see either side compromising its standards.

By James

May 28, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

If God doesn’t judge this nation He will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah !

By TW

May 28, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

So what.

How about that McClellan guy saying his boss was an idiot who lied us into a war? Those inconvenient truths are a B*, eh Wooten?

Barr ‘08 The cleansing of the right has begun.

By Shar

May 28, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

Well, jbmlaw and Mr. Wooten have started their day off with a heapin’ helpin’ of hyperbole.

No kudos for the City of Philadelphia contributing 80 years of free rent to the Boy Scouts? No rebuke for the Boy Scouts who take the public’s money but won’t sully their hands with the public itself, at least not the portions of which are gay, communist, atheist, agnostic or even girls? No acknowlegement that the Scout space in question is administrative in nature and no more important to the Philadelphian Scouts that the remarkably ugly Girl Scouts headquarters on the access road at I-85 and North Druid Hills is to Atlantan Girl Scouts? No reprimand to the Cradle of Liberty Scout leaders for knowing they violated the municipal ordinance outlawing discrimination in public venues since its passage in 1982, and whose response to the City’s demand that they agree to nondiscriminatory employment practices was to “Ignore the deadline. It’s the easiest option”? They have known about this specific action since 2003 and their only substantive response was to put language into their local charter saying they would not tolerate ‘unlawful discrimination’ only to be forced to rescind it by the national organization.

Mr. Wooten, there is no “War On The Boy Scouts” What an irresponsible, biased and inflammatory thing to write. Scouting goes on in church basements, people’s living rooms, community centers and the like, funded by the troop itself through popcorn sales and fees, which they have to remit at least 50% of to the regional chapter. Taking that much money from the kids who earn it is more rightly a “war on scouting” than a refusal to provide free choice office space.

My daughters were in Girl Scouting for over ten years, and the only time we ever went to the headquarter building was to buy badges from the store, pick up camp forms and give them money. The only Scout activity was one Mother-Daughter tea. In addition to the store space, the building serves as office space and for leader training. No Scout would be affected if they moved, which indeed they did several years ago.

This isn’t about denying young boys a chance to live the Scouting life; it’s the insistence of regional bureaucrats on having their nice offices paid for by the public while continuing to keep out those public elements it deems ‘undesirable’, through both membership and employment practices. The bureaucrats are merely using the image of those boys to manipulate public opinion. It seems to have worked with Mr. Wooten this morning.

By Martin

May 28, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

Jim, as usual, confuses the issues and makes a mockery of the basic laws of logic.

Jim would like you to think that the fact that the Boy Scouts are being told to follow rules that everyone else has to follow constitutes a “War On Scouting”…

Jim would like you to think that the Boy Scouts SCOTUS confirmed right of free association trumps everyone elses free association rights.

Jim would like you to think that making individuals and groups accept the consequences of their decisions is a bad thing.

Jim, as many right-wingers do, is trying to say that getting special treatment and money from the government while at the same time breaking the rules is wrong UNLESS it’s for a cause Jim supports.

Full Disclosure: I’m a Cubmaster and think that Scouting should keep it’s free association rules intact. If that means no local, state, or federal governmental support then so be it. We’re better off without it - they can use that money to pay down their deficits.

By MADMOMMY

May 28, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

As a mother, you always worry about the safety of your children and with scouts it isn’t any different. We as American’s should be able to state who is allowed and who is not allowed in a private group. If I start a book club it is my right to allow or not allow people into the group and set the rules. The scouts have been battling this for years and I am sure over time things will change and they will allow gays in, just not anytime soon.
One thing I do remember from scouts is that they are teaching morals and ethics in a standard setting. If memory serves me right both the girl scouts and boy scout meetings were held at church, led by church leaders and opened with prayer along with the scouts pledge. Is this possible today? Maybe not, but that is where todays scouts have changed.
Hopefully when my daughter is old enough I can be her leader and hold the meetings are church and have them be faith based along with imparting the morals and codes of scouts.

By Chris

May 28, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

The Boy Scouts have accepted entitlements from the city of Philadelphia for 80 years it seems in the form of subsidized rent on the building in question. The Boy Scouts have every right to have a policy set forth banning anyone they see fit since they are a private organization. However, when the city, which owns the property, states that they (Boy Scouts) either let gays in and comply with city rules concerning city entitlements or pay full market rental rates, they (Philadelphia)are within their rights to do so.

jbmlaw and Mr. Wooten: You both are against entitlements such as these except when they promote your values as liberals are against the same entitlements unless they promote their core values. Both parties Republicans & Democrats are the same.

Why not treat everyone with respect and dignity? Isn’t all life precious? Love thy neighbors as you love God the Father.

By Eagle Jeff

May 28, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

Personally, why can’t we leave at least one group of people in tact with thier beleifs without the government interventions? - Boy Scouts have had a long standing of morals and values. Not to say that homo sexuals dont have morals and values, but we are dealing with boys in a time in thier lives that are impressionable. Isn’t it hard enough to keep kids off of drugs, tatto’s and what not? How do the girl scouts deal with the lesbian culture?

By Tim

May 28, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

If the Boy Scouts want to exclude those members of society that are ” not like them”, then have at it… Just don’t try to do it on the publics dime. By the way, TW@ 9:08; I read that article too, Those on the right are afraid to even admit That kind of truth is even out there.

By Troglodyke

May 28, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

First of all, let me say that it gets very tiring to keep hearing about how Xtians are being persecuted in this country. This issue is one of the ones that comes up to bolster this fallacious argument. Xtians have ALL the power in the USA. “Secularists” (whoever they are) have virtually none. So lets put that to rest. You can’t have a majority—a vast majority, with representatives in the highest offices in the land—and claim that you are persecuted.

As to the BSA issue, I agree in principle that private organizations are allowed to discriminate against whoever they wish. However, the BSA does get government funding in the way of cheap rent, and that means they lose the right to discriminate.

I don’t give a crap how much money they spent to renovate a city-owned building. Buy the building, or rent it at fair-market value, and then you can do as you like.

No organization that gets government funding in this country should be allowed to discriminate against people (or proselytize to them). Pay your own way, BSA. What’s so hard about that?

In fact, I don’t care if the BSA ever allows gays. (I don’t know why gays want to be a part of it, anyway, but that’s just me.) I want them to pay their own way, period.

I don’t see why this is such a problem.

Can a “real” conservative tell me?

By Bill

May 28, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

I would be worried of the possibility of isolated cases of sexual abuse if you let homosexual men into the Boy Scouts. It’s not that homosexual men are more likely to be predatory, but the fact that the position exists means that mentally ill men of a predatory nature can target the available position as a source of work. It happened in the Catholic Church, it could happen to the Boy Scouts.

Then again, any such person could still get hired by the Boy Scouts if they just don’t reveal their sexual orientation.

Regardless, the Boy Scouts should have the right to set the criteria for admission into their organization. Whether or not people agree or disagree with them is irrelevant. And it is inappropriate for the state to be acting as a special interest group’s beat stick.

By bill

May 28, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

I would be worried of the possibility of isolated cases of sexual abuse if you let homosexual men into the Boy Scouts. It’s not that homosexual men are more likely to be predatory, but the fact that the position exists means that mentally ill men of a predatory nature can target the available position as a source of work. It happened in the Catholic Church, it could happen to the Boy Scouts.

Then again, any such person could still get hired by the Boy Scouts if they just don’t reveal their sexual orientation.

Regardless, the Boy Scouts should have the right to set the criteria for admission into their organization. Whether or not people agree or disagree with them is irrelevant. And it is inappropriate for the state to be acting as a special interest group’s beat stick.

By Redneck Convert

May 28, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this

Well, it looks like the Boy Scouts in Philadelphia will just have to move. The gays have just took over that city the way they have in the rest of the country.

Its just a shame people can’t be made to do You Know What in the reglar way. Now a bunch of gays want to get in the Boy Scouts to diddle with the boys. We are a reglar Sodom and Gonorrhea now.

And it will get worse if a librul Democrat is elected president. The gays will be lining up everyplace to marry and ruining our marriages. One day I halfway expect to come out of my trailer and see married gays living on each side of me. They will be the ones that the guvmint gives all the tax breaks to and I’ll be living in Sin. The guvmint probly won’t even recognize me as married just because I’m married to a woman. Then they will clog up the divorce courts and reglar people that want to split won’t be able to get near a judge.

Its come to the point the guvmint needs to put cameras in every bedroom just to be sure men and women ain’t doing You Know What together. If the guvmint can read peoples mail and look at their bank accounts without them knowing about it and to keep us safe from terrists, I don’t see why it can’t put in a few cameras.

Anyhow, I’m disgusted but I got beer to deliver. Have a good day everybody.

By A Boy Scout in Philly

May 28, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

The Boy Scouts of Cradle of Liberty Council, encompassing Montgomery and Philadelphia counties have been thrust onto the national stage and are representing an organization which has seen over 100 million boys pass through its ranks over 98 years. They have a dilemma which conflicts the core values of the Scouts with the open-lifestyle ideals of the East Coast. There is a reason this is not an issue in more conservative areas: it is wrong, both in scouts AND the community to be gay. Therefor no self-respecting politician would bring infringment suits on the local scouts.

No doubt, the city has a right to put standards on groups who get low rent. It just has to be across the board (one aspect of the suit). However, as the article notes, the building was built in 1929, by the hands and out of the coffers of the scouts.

In that time there has been no policy change within the Boy Scouts. Only the city has changed expectations. The BSA was established with a certain set of rules, for its own reasons. Boy Scouts quite simply is routed in 1910 religious beliefs. It stresses duty to God, and finds it contradictory to have gay leadership. It is not that they find them as lesser people, as some groups might, the national policy just finds that gay leaders are not role models to represent the 12th point of the scout law, which reads: A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obidient Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent.

Similarly, created to protect the civilians of our fledgling country from Brits wanting to pillage and burn and to provide hunting opportunities, the Second Amendment. In the 200 something years, the circumstances of the law have changed. But still the law continues.

The National Council is going to offer no help to the council of the Philadelphia area. They will not get involved over a building.

People need to understand that the people of this council have no hatred for gays wanting to help improve the lives of local scouts. There are many in the system who realize they can do more good (sadly) by not expressing their homosexuality, and still being the fantastic volunteers they are.

Is it right? No. Should it be changed? Yes Does the Philadelphia Council have anything to do about it? No.

By Troglodyke

May 28, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

First of all, let me say that it gets very tiring to keep hearing about how Xtians are being persecuted in this country. This issue is one of the ones that comes up to bolster this fallacious argument. Xtians have ALL the power in the USA. “Secularists” (whoever they are) have virtually none. So lets put that to rest. You can’t have a majority—a vast majority, with representatives in the highest offices in the land—and claim that you are persecuted.

As to the BSA issue, I agree in principle that private organizations are allowed to discriminate against whoever they wish. However, the BSA does get government funding in the way of cheap rent, and that means they lose the right to discriminate.

I don’t give a crap how much money they spent to renovate a city-owned building. Buy the building, or rent it at fair-market value, and then you can do as you like.

No organization that gets government funding in this country should be allowed to discriminate against people (or proselytize to them). Pay your own way, BSA. What’s so hard about that?

In fact, I don’t care if the BSA ever allows gays. (I don’t know why gays want to be a part of it, anyway, but that’s just me.) I want them to pay their own way, period.

I don’t see why this is such a problem.

Can a “real” conservative tell me?

By Disinterested

May 28, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

I would guestimate that .001% of the population gives a hoot about this story. However, liberals and conservatives alike will seize this issue today to promote their own agenda. Then tomorrow it is on to the next headline.

By saywhat?

May 28, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

The scouts prohibition on gay scouts and leaders is a disappointment to me . Its time the National leaders of Scouting recognize that homosexuality has nothing to do with morals, and every thing to do with biology.I have been a Scout leader for 6 years, and have 4 boys now involved in Scouting. I would have no problem with a leader or member of any of my boys’ units being gay. Philadelphia is right to issue the ultimatum.

As for the title of this column, I suppose everytime Jim gets a moving violation, he gets all self-righteous and declares it a war on motorists.

By Grob Hahn

May 28, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

Get a copy of the American Boy’s Handy Book. It’s a major part of the basis for the Boy Scouts being formed. And Scouting is one American tradition that was readily adapted by the rest of the world and for a while was almost as common as Coca Cola. What most parents want to know is “Why are gay men fighting for the ‘right” to take young boys into the woods overnight?” If the BSA caves in on this, we will see a major part of the American story taking a back seat to compromised morals. Just because homosexuality is common does NOT mean it is in any way normal. The BSA should have pulled away from the government 15 years ago. They stay in government-owned facilities and think they are some kind of exception to government rules. They are not. If they don’t want homosexuals walking into the woods with our young boys, they MUST abandon their dependence on the government entirely. Sure there will be a dip and lots of BSA people will lose their jobs. But they will recover and will be proud to know they didn’t compromise on their morals. Even though the government compromised on them long ago. The BSA existed long before these government acceptance ideals were made into law (by American voters?). The BSA should be allowed to exist in their founded form, so they MUST get off the government titt NOW!!

Grobbbbb

By Dave

May 28, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

I think a lot of folks missed the part where the Boy Scouts built the building. It was not built with taxpayer money….not renovated with taxpayer money or maintained with taxpayer money.

It seems the city wants to charge rent on property that was given to them by the current renter.

By Adam

May 28, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

The Scouts should move to further protect their obligations regarding the Scout Oath and Scout Law to be morally straight and clean in thought, word, and deed. The most obvious way would be to exclude known Leftists and anyone suspected of voting Democrat.

By A Boy Scout In Philly

May 28, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

Troglodyke (9:30am), gays would want to be a part of the BSA because of the good it does for boys from every walk of life. Perhaps you should try being a leader to understand the sense of accomplishment one gets when you watch a dozen twelve year-olds become Eagle Scouts, form strong bonds of brotherhood, and get college resume boosts because of it. Any person with a sense of community would want to help these boys.

Oh, and if we’ll be tossing around the fair market value crap, if the boy scouts decide to leave, should they have any right to sell the building back? At fair market value?

After all, the people of the council in the 1920s paid fair market value to build the building. Built it themselves. With their own money.

Obviously, the value of the building (BSA built and cared for) has increased. Lets see what the ruling of the land itself is.

By Dave

May 28, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

i wonder if Ted Haggard was a boy scout… How about larry Craig and Mark Foley…were they boy scouts? Was Dick Cheney’s daughter a girl scout? Nah… I’m sure they all practiced the “don’t ask, don’t policy” of the US Military…. SWEEEEEEET! ;-)

By DaveD

May 28, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

i wonder if Ted Haggard was a boy scout… How about larry Craig and Mark Foley…were they boy scouts? Was Dick Cheney’s daughter a girl scout? Nah… I’m sure they all practiced the “don’t ask, don’t policy” of the US Military…. SWEEEEEEET! ;-)

By ln

May 28, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

I hardly think Philadelphia is “punishing” the Scouts, and in fact, I think it’s inaccurate to say this is a “war” on them.

The fact of the matter is this. The Scouts are a private organization, so they think they are entitled to their own policies. Normally that’s fine. BUT (big but!)… They receive government subsidies renting land that is normally $200,000/year for only $1/year. Thus, the government — being the primary contributor of money — has every right to say, “Hey, Scouts! You’re violating our rules! Either stop, or we’ll stop giving you money.” That will happen with any government subsidy…

The way that I see it, the Scouts have a choice to make. Sever ties and make itself a TRUE private organization, or simply fade away into obsolescence, which is exactly where it was headed in the first place.

As a conservative blog, I’m surprised this author is not simply pushing for the Scouts to sever its ties with the government… Isn’t that what conservatism is all about, anyway?

By A Boy Scout in Philly

May 28, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

The stigma that homosexuals are automatically phedolphiles is clogging intelligent debate on this subject.

Why should parents be afraid of letting gay men “take young boys into the woods overnight” (Grob Hahn 9:40)

Is it that they will exit the woods as gay children? Or abused children?

Listen, there is no reason to bar gays from scouting on the grounds that they will touch little boys. Such ideas are utterly ignorant.

The decision that the national board made, and the Philadelphia region is being held for, is that homosexuality is not in line with the religious aspect of the BSA. Felons are barred from scouts based on the Trustworthy and Obidient aspects of the Law. Do not misunderstand that as equating felons to gays. (again, ignorance and idiocy)

The BSA has certain values and national policy finds dissonance between homosexuality and religious respect. It is a shame the national group will not lend its voice and take the spotlight off the hardworking Philadelphia scouts being held in contempt.

By Shar

May 28, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Eagle Jeff @ 9:17 - I can’t say what the national Girl Scouts of American policy is toward lesbians, but I can tell you how it worked in one of my daughters’ troops. When they were Daisy Scouts and Brownies (in other words, very young) one of their troop members had two mommies, one had a daddy but no mommy, a few had a mommy but no daddy, and several had both. These girls were lucky enough to have parents who wanted to be involved with their activities, to give them the chance to experience all that Scouting has to offer. At no time, for no reason, was ANY parent’s sexuality relevant. No parent there would have tolerated any activity or discussion that presented another parent in a sexual light, regardless of orientation.

As the girls grew older, they gradually figured out that the two mommies were, in fact, lesbians. Around the same time, they figured out the same thing about a couple of their teachers, a principal, and the lifeguard at the swimming pool. However, these women had already established themselves as individuals, figures of authority who cared individually - but not sexually - about the girls in the troop. They knew, too, that any adverse remarks about those mommies would badly hurt the girl who was their daughter, so other than a few questions at home (and, I regret to say, a few snickers over the phone) the issue was ignored and generally deemed irrelevant.

Those same girls had a couple of Dad and daughter events every year, the Father/Daughter campout in the fall and the Father/Daughter dance in the spring. There were always dads who took along the girls who didn’t have their own dads, to both of these events, and no one any more suspected these dads of having illicit intentions towards the girls than they suspected the lesbian moms of perverse motives when they volunteered to go on camping trips. It was equally unthinkable and equally impossible. In fact, the only time it was ever brought up was by a drunk outside of the old American Legion building on Piedmont, where the Father/Daughter Dance used to be held (NOT, you will note, at the headquarters building!) He watched a parade of dressed-up dads with their girls walking into the hall and finally tried to get in himself, saying loudly that ‘if they were getting that much, he could have some, too.’ It’s a wonder he wasn’t killed.

When these girls had their last reunion recently before leaving for college, the mommies of every marital and sexual stripe were treated the same way - with affection and respect and appreciation for all we had done together for each other. No girl had been sexually approached by any parent in the group, regardless of gender or orientation, and all the girls had the benefit of support from all kinds of parents who didn’t happen to be in their own families.

By DaveD

May 28, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

Redneck…i guess ONLY liberals are gay right? Ast those that I mentioned above…tell me about ted Haggards “private prayer meetings” with Bush in the White House before he admited to hiring a male escort with “talibangelical” funds (since he was their leader and used his “expense account” to pay for gay sex…with a prostitute…and bought meth with those funds as well…

I guess Dick Cheney’s daughter is a “liberal” as well…and Mark Foley is “liberal” too…right? How many times did he vote against gay rights issues while hitting on underage male pages? Calling them up…asking what they were wearing…how “big” they were…

The only difference…is that gay liberals don’t hide their “biological” make-up… (except Dick’s daughter…he tried to hide that from the public himself)…

tell me what ALL you gay bashers think of Dick Cheney’s gay daughter having a baby…raising her…do you think that they should “take the baby away”…? curious as to your responses…..

and NO…I’m straight…but there is NOTHING wrong with people being gay…only things wrong with the “HATE” the talibangelicals have for “gays and mexicans”…

as your new “black”…in your KKK groups (ie:churches) is/are gays and mexicans….

By Tom in California

May 28, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

The Boy Scouts are not being “punished.” They are free to be as backwards and discriminatory as they choose to be. They just can’t do it on the public dime.

I was a Boy Scout when I was a kid. I bitterly regret that I ever belonged to the organization. It implicitly teaches boys intolerance. Its membership rules prevent boys from learning an important fact about the world: that you can still find good character in people who are different from yourself. If you want to teach boys that atheists or gay people don’t deserve respect, go ahead. But don’t come looking for public funds to do it!

The Girl Scouts long ago corrected this problem! What’s wrong with the Boy Scouts?

By Chuck Anziulewicz

May 28, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

DEAR JIM WOOTEN:

As you note, “The Scouts built the headquarters in 1928 and renovated it at a cost of $1.5 million in 1994. In addition, it pays about $60,000 per year to maintain it.”

Sounds to me like the organization has deep enough pockets to pay a fair-market rent. If the city of Philadelphia continued to give the Scouts a pass, it would be providing virtually free public space to a group that discriminates. And I, as a Gay American taxpayer, don’t want my tax dollars being used to support a group that discriminates against Gay people.

If you’re going to feed at the public trough, you’ve got to play by the rules.

By "when it's time to quit" Liz

May 28, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

You claim to be patriotic Americans who support the BSA, but if you really were patriotic you would remember that our declaration says that we are “All Created Equal” and leave it at that.

I’m not gay, and I do support the scouts, but I’m very offended at your presumptions that because someone falls in love with a member of the same sex that they are considered less human. If the scouts want to maintain their right to ban gays they need to separate completely from the government, and go back in time where that type if prejudice is still tolerated.

By Truthifier

May 28, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

As usual, Jimmy Wooten is trying to deflect his reader’s attention away from serious news, like the fact that the former White House press secretary has said that the President and his Administration are a sham, with a cultural wedge issue. Jimmy, your attempt to turn back the clock to the “culture wars” of the 1990s is really dating you. Get with the times man!

I am curious though, what exactly is it that the BSA and Jimmy Wooten think will happen if the scouts allow a gay teenager to join their ranks? Was Jimmy hit on by a gay scout when he was a kid or something?

www.scoutingforall.org

By Tom in California

May 28, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

The Boy Scouts are not being “punished.” They are free to be as backwards and discriminatory as they choose to be. They just can’t do it on the public dime.

I was a Boy Scout when I was a kid. I bitterly regret that I ever belonged to the organization. It implicitly teaches boys intolerance. Its membership rules prevent boys from learning an important fact about the world: that you can still find good character in people who are different from yourself. If you want to teach boys that atheists or gay people don’t deserve respect, go ahead. But don’t come looking for public funds to do it!

The Girl Scouts long ago corrected this problem! What’s wrong with the Boy Scouts?

By deegee

May 28, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

I wonder how many of the boy scouts that are caught up in this controversy have developed to a point where they know that they are not attracted to girl scouts? I suppose that they are casualties in the unholy war against the Christian theocrats.

By ron

May 28, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

Good morning all,I certainly would have no problem taking my children out of scouting if a troop were to allow gays.I’ve seen too much over my lifetime not to know that gays in the Scouts are going to create a problem.As a boy,I couldn’t join the Girl Scouts and I pretty much understood why.It had to do with sexual orientation.I was biologically programmed to chase little girls.

By Dusty

May 28, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Well, I could do without this one. But….

For what ever reason, “gays” have abnormal sex. Anatomy confirms that abnormality. Gays consider their “abnormality” as normal. Others do not.

Boy Scout leaders do not want boys exposed to men who practice abnormal sex. Although gay men are not usually child molestors, those who sexually invade children are often gay. Adults can make adult decisions about sex. Children can be misled or forced.

I am with the Boy Scouts in advocating all things “good and normal” for boys. If the city of Philadelphia uses its laws of non discrimination as an OK to stop the practice of “good and normal” for an organization, I cannot agree with them.

Children are cherished in their innocence and not to be used to portray any governmental contrivance.

By Bill

May 28, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

BSA should stay with thier morals.This country has fallen flat on its face.God help us all.

By Bill

May 28, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

BSA should stay with thier morals.This country has fallen flat on its face.God help us all.

By Angry Liberaltarian

May 28, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

Good for Philadelphia. As a former Scout, the BSA is doinga disservice to their mission. A scout is KIND. Kindness requires acceptance and tolerance, both of which are severely lacking when you discriminate against other children because of sexual orientation. Camping, merit badges, nature studies should be open to all children, not restricted to blond haired Aryan christians. The Scouts have left the path and should be left to wander in the wilderness.

By gay former scout

May 28, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

I’m gay and I was a boy scout (made it to Life).

Let’s stop with all this sanctimonious crap about how moral and upstanding scouts are. The BSA is one of the most bigoted, hypocritical organizations in existence. It’s just a big frat house.

Most of those “morals” disintegrate after the oath. In the four years I was a scout I never saw more dishonesty, back biting, jealousy, prejudice, or outright thievery. I attended two national jamborees and there were two or three fights between troops or within troops every day for the two weeks I attended. Since I was in the scouts in the south, I learned all kinds of racial slurs and jokes from all these “moral” young men. And the scoutmasters are usually losers that wished they had been in the army but instead get their willys pushing pre-teens around. That doesn’t include the pedophiles (yes, I saw it…and these were married men).

It doesn’t matter how much money the scouts have spent on this bulding…if they get any break at the public’s expense (including from gays that pay taxes) then they should lose that privledges or change their discrinatory policies.

By @@@@

May 28, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Dusty, get your facts straight. Pun intended. The VAST majority of those who “sexually invade” children are heterosexual. And please don’t respond with some statistics from anyone with Reverend in front of their name.

By DEATH TO LIBERALISM

May 28, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

These kind of yanKKKee queers in Philly are nasty pinKKKo leftist scum who wanna queer the pitch so every queer can be openly queer and be mighty proud of bein’ queer whilst making sure that queers don’t get queer looks whilst being queer.

This far left screeching about opening up the boy scouts for mincing poofs and f agg ots is all about maximising opportunities for homosexual predators. Its sick and despicable!! If the queers wanna have child molesting group like NAMBLA then let them deal with the not harsh enough laws protecting children. Funny how several ACLU lawyer criminals have been found guilty on child porn … yet these depraved ACLU scum anally protect NAMBLA and defend their “free speech” rights. See how sick the far left perverts are. Bet Bwarnet Fwank types are salivating in Philly today.

KEEP ALL QUEERS OUT OF THE BOY SCOUTS!!

By peter

May 28, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

Well Jim, again we talk about something, and you call it a “WAR”….. seems the Rights can’t get enough of WAR.

Gosh we have to have our WARS, I would think at this point in time all the Good Church going Rights would realize, that is not part of God’s plans for the human race.

I guess the part “Though shall not kill” has been omitted form the thought process?

Funny one can go to church on the weekend, and be a WAR monger during the week, and all is cool.

Well the Boy Scouts should not have to deal with Homosexuality if they do not want too. But hey since they get any type of Local, Federal or state funding then they will have to change their tune.

It seems that simple, why are you making this an issue anyway?

WAR is that FUN word the Right likes to throw around, even JBMLAW states we need WAR for Democracy?

Jim, what do you make of the comments out of McClellan’s new book?

• “History appears poised to confirm what most Americans today have decided: that the decision to invade Iraq was a serious strategic blunder. No one, including me, can know with absolute certainty how the war will be viewed decades from now when we can more fully understand its impact. What I do know is that war should only be waged when necessary, and the Iraq war was not necessary.”

Seems like we are were totally lied too, about this made up WAR!

Is this another example of the Rights Rhetoric, along with “Family Values”.

The rhetoric goes on, nothing changes, and Americans have become the losers in Bush’s BIG GAME!

By staythecourse

May 28, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

Just about anything “straight” is getting beat up these days. We would not allow a 16yr old boy to camp with 16yr old girl on a Scouting trip, why should we allow two 16yr old homosexual boys camp together? BSA is not the place.

I am all for gays experiencing the Scouts, I am just worried about phyiscal situations that could arise from certain Scouting activities.

I certainly do not hate gay people. Life is precious thing and we all have a course to chart and follow. If one of my boys grow up and choose the gay lifestyle, I will not disown him. But his life may take a different path than that of a straight man.

In the end, I hope the Scouts can get away from this Philadelphia building or get the funding to stay their course.

By deegee

May 28, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

Learning who to hit on and not to hit on is a part of growing up regardless of your sexual orientation. Rejection is emotionally painful. For gay teenagers it can be physically and emotionally painful. Straight parents need not fear that their straight teenager is going to turn gay by association with a gay counterpart any more than sharing a cubicle with a gay coworker will turn the parent gay.

By former scout

May 28, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Last line in the Scout Oath, “and morally straight”. Homosexuals CANNOT abide by or live with this. Despite whatever the homosexual community thinks, their lifestyle(s) cannot produce a morally straight individual. They simply cannot except the fact that those that practice such a lifestyle are reprobates, Gods words, not mine. Trying to get the populous to accept them as they are is not a conscience cleaner. If the homosexuals have to be in a scout program, quit the lifestyle or get a charter from the government and start their own, and exclude non-homosexuals. The scout program has been around for years and is a great asset to communities that support them. Communities that threaten to discontinue their support unless the Boy Scouts sign up homosexuals wishing to join is pathetic and the officials supporting this are spineless, and morally un-straight. The majority of homosexuals that are asked what most they would change about their lives would be, to not be a homosexual. To be accepted publicly would only numb the conscience of a lifestyle that is best avoided. God bless the youth that want to accept the Scout Lifestyle as a personal commitment to follow its oaths and rules, not to change them to fit their personal lifestyles.

By former scout

May 28, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

Last line in the Scout Oath, “and morally straight”. Homosexuals CANNOT abide by or live with this. Despite whatever the homosexual community thinks, their lifestyle(s) cannot produce a morally straight individual. They simply cannot except the fact that those that practice such a lifestyle are reprobates, Gods words, not mine. Trying to get the populous to accept them as they are is not a conscience cleaner. If the homosexuals have to be in a scout program, quit the lifestyle or get a charter from the government and start their own, and exclude non-homosexuals. The scout program has been around for years and is a great asset to communities that support them. Communities that threaten to discontinue their support unless the Boy Scouts sign up homosexuals wishing to join is pathetic and the officials supporting this are spineless, and morally un-straight. The majority of homosexuals that are asked what most they would change about their lives would be, to not be a homosexual. To be accepted publicly would only numb the conscience of a lifestyle that is best avoided. God bless the youth that want to accept the Scout Lifestyle as a personal commitment to follow its oaths and rules, not to change them to fit their personal lifestyles.

By Shar

May 28, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

No changes in the way that Scouting operates are being imposed in this case. BSA is a private organization and the Court has established the right of private groups to conduct themselves as they choose, within the limits of the law.

This is about whether a group can or should continue to receive public subsidies while ignoring public law.

By Just Nasty and Mean

May 28, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

Wow! This brings a WHOLE NEW MEANING to the phrase “City of Brotherly Love”.

By Abandoned

May 28, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

If the Scouts offered a few of their tender young ones to the “gays” would that appease their opposition?

By daughter of a scout master

May 28, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

My dad is a BSA scout master and has been for 30 years. I don’t know about other troops but he stands for God, good morals and teaches his boys to be good Christian men. He makes them work for their Eagle badge unlike some troops who go the easy way out and women are not allowed on camping trips. Women do not belong in BSA they have the Girl Scouts for them. As for paying for their headquarters why don’t they just buy it from the city. They paid to build it and renovate it, why would they pay rent on it?

By gay former scout

May 28, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

to Former scout:

I’m sure I know more homosexuals than you do and I can definitely tell you that none of them wish they were heterosexual…you don’t know what you are talking about..get your head out of your a$$ because your talking crap…and by the way, you only have post once…be patient.

Most gay men wouldn’t touch the boy scouts with 100 foot pole…in fact..news flash…most of us can’t stand being around heterosexual men because you are all fat, ugly and god-awful boring…but I make a lot of money and pay a lot of taxes and I don’t want it to benefit bigoted jerks like you.

to Death to Liberalism…(aka that dumba$$ limey). The only thing wrong with this country is that people like you aren’t taken out in front of a wall and shot. I’d pull the trigger on your F-word spouting hide..no problem.

By bill

May 28, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

Normally, when Scouting is discussed in this type forum, the impression is that BSA is a monolithic organization managed from the home office in Texas. This is not a totally accurate picture. It is true that there are a set of national polices and procedures that must be followed for legal and liability reasons, but the view of BSA as a corporate entity doesn’t capture the essence of the organization. The BSA is granted a charter from the United States Congress to operate the program in this country. BSA in turn charters it’s program to sponsoring organizations which are churchs, civic organizations, and service organizations. The BSA program is reflective of the values of these organizations. It is the option of the charter organization whether it continues to host/sponsor the Scout unit. As an example, if a court requires BSA to admit homosexual men as Scout leaders, the sponsor (church) simply drops the sponsorship of the unit. The unit ceases to exist; end of subject. So, BSA has spent countless dollars in legal altercations against those who would seek to dictate national policies and procedures. At the end of the day, BSA has only served as a lightening rod for the charter organization. Those who seek to re-form the BSA into a more palatable organization should really just file suit against the Catholic, Methodist, and LDS church to require them to admit homosexuals to the leadership and ministry. We all know that those organizations and many others are based on their individual beliefs, not what is required by a court order. All that being said, I don’t condone discrimination under any circumstances, I find it in total disagreement to my judeo-christian heritage, as well as a poor example to our youth of how we relate to others. In my opinion, the BSA is entitled to the same considerations as any other organization that is sanctioned by the United States Congress, no more, no less.

By D

May 28, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

this is cut and dry :Scouts have right to say what they want but since it is a public space, public anti-discramantions laws kick in. it is very simple. if the scouts refuse to accept the rules of goverment bulidings, then they can leave

By DaveD

May 28, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

Ron..why don’t you say the “same thing” about taking your kids out of church…1 to get away from “gay pastors” (as like priests they too are human and sometimes pedos)….and 2 to keep them from the “hate” spewed from the pulpit?

Boyscouts are NOT the problem…BIGGOTS are…there are gays in every single facit of life… they are in your church…in your schools, in your office…and in your neighborhood…

maybe you should just lock them up (your kids that is), and homeschool them…protect them from the “true outsdie world”…

hey…this might be an IDEA!..why not teach them to LOVE AND ACCEPT ALL PEOPLE?! As that is what your so called “jesus” did….

and to set the “facts” straight…there are FAR more “staight” pedophiles in prison…something along the lines of 20 to 1 (vs. gay pedophiles)…

If I was you…i’d be WAY more worried about “pedophiles” in general…don’t brand “gays” as such…your true bigotry is showing…(as the same goes for many here)….

By Dusty

May 28, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

@@@@@ 10:47

We are talking about BOYS here as in BOY SCOUTS. Suppose you give me statistics that show boys are NOT molested by gays but by heterosexuals. You might also give me the statistics that show how many GAY MEN are sexually interested in FEMALES of any age.

By Tom

May 28, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

former scout (10:57)…..even including the satirical posts in this blog, yours has to be the most ignorant one yet.

“God’s words” were written two millenia ago by very human, very fallible men who had their own bigotries, prejudices and insecurities and injescted the same into their writings of “God’s words”.

Nobody needs to “except”(sic) anything about homosexuals being “reprobates”, because they quite simply are not.

Get your nose out of the Old Testament and try reading something that speaks to sexual orientation based on facts and research, and not blind faith.

Sheesh.

By DaveD

May 28, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Dust Rag….why don’t you tell ME (and US) thte statistics of gay pedos VS. Straight pedos…most of all males raping little girls…it’s not even CLOSE!!!!

If you need me to..I WILL post the statistics of gay pedos vs. straight ones…

Yet I’m sure you don’t want to see those numbers…it’s “straight males” who are the BIGGEST group of predators and child molestors…again…it’s not even close!

Hate filled people… nice of you to feel so much hate…

By The Truth

May 28, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

gay former scout, Who’s intolerant? You’ve just threatened someones life with a gun. I would rather not have gays, such as you, in the scouts preaching hate. If the world were full of gays then the population would die out. Maybe that would be a good thing. I don’t know, but I do know that being a heterosexual is great. And no, I’m athletic and have an amazing hot wife. Go form your own gay scouts because none of us real scouts care. Leave us alone.

By DEATH TO LIBERALISM

May 28, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

@ the yellowbellied screeching DEATH THREAT PUKING f aggo t:

to Death to Liberalism…(aka that dumba$$ limey). The only thing wrong with this country is that people like you aren’t taken out in front of a wall and shot. I’d pull the trigger on your F-word spouting hide..no problem.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA … damn that was freaking hilarious … LMFAO … best limp wristed SISSY fit in months on here … LMFAO!!

U even puked up a “racist” anti-Brit epithet … snigger snigger snigger.

winding up shirt lifting f aggot s like U is fabulous cyber sport.

Dusty as usual is absolutely right, homosexual buttock bouncing (and even more perverted filth in AIDS infested bathhouses) is NOT natural.

For a split second at least it will be amusing to see whether aborted foreskin ANALLY condemns your gutless unprovoked f aggo ty sick death threat, though as I naturally assume the self absorbed aborted foreskin ONLY cares about far left anally unfunny narcissistic leftist pukes being “targeted”.

most of us can’t stand being around heterosexual men because you are all fat, ugly and god-awful boring…

Seriously though mister homosexual mincer … please keep your psychotic anti-normal folks hate coming … it was fabulously amusing.

U obviously have serious mental problems, hating normal non-queer folks to such a manic degree is NOT healthy… seek help immediately. There are numerous caring Christian groups that will work with U to help you get over your f aggotry!!

Just remember this bollock chops, come July 1st Sonny and the GOP GA House with the excellent HB 89 have made it possible for law abiding folks to defend themselves in even more public places in GA.

A law abiding concealed carry permit holding GOP voting US citizen.

I LUV MY GLOCK … smirk!

By Amy

May 28, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

Before you all get on your high horses about the Boy Scouts wanting free rent, go back & READ the article, yes the city owns the land, but the Boy Scouts built (with Boy Scout funds) the building & have maintained it for 80 years. They gave it to the city with the agreement from the city that they could rent it back for a dollar a year in perpetuam. The city has renigged on the deal because they have no morals! As far as no scout ever sees the inside of the building, ask any Eagle Scout if they’ve seen the inside of the building, I’m sure they’d all say yes. What goes on in that building? Money is raised to fund programs, unit leaders are often trained to protect our children & lead good programs, programs are planned, Philly has loads of inner city kids that have no money & very scary lifes & scouts may be there only safe haven, the one program that offers them a chance to get out of the city & go camping! All I can say is go Boy Scouts-sue the City of “Brotherly Love”!!

By Troglodyke

May 28, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

Last line in the Scout Oath, “and morally straight”. Homosexuals CANNOT abide by or live with this. Despite whatever the homosexual community thinks, their lifestyle(s) cannot produce a morally straight individual. They simply cannot except the fact that those that practice such a lifestyle are reprobates, Gods words, not mine.

Oh, what a fragrant crock of crap.

I love it when the religious nutjobs say stuff like this then quickly tack on “God’s words, not mine.” Riiiiiight.

Religion makes you too stupid to interpret your own holy book, and too stupid to care.

Religion is for idiots. The proof is all around us.

By DaveD

May 28, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

hers ya go Dust RAG….I’m sure this will go over your head… instead of watching fox news…learn to READ!!!!

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/HTML/facts_molestation.html

Straight men are the “largest group” of child molesters…and even though they are “straight”…a pedo…by definition…is “attracted to CHILDREN” both boys and girls…so…

let me explain this to you so your simple brain can comprehend: pedophiles like CHILDREN…boys and girls…but MOST pedophiles are MEN THAT ABUSE GIRLS….

got it? (doubtful)

By Dusty

May 28, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Shar@10:59

You are such a bright star liberal even when you talk out both sides of your mouth.

When your daughter was subjected to unseemly behavior at school, you did not say let her stay and learn to live with this behavior. Why not? The school said this individual had rights and inferred that he was not interfering with hers.

Why did you not stand up for her rights? You pay taxes for public schools. Instead, you took her to a safer private school. You did not say this school should get NO government funds because they discriminated against your daughter.

Maybe liberals also have a “motto”: It may be good for others but let us decide about our own.

By The Truth

May 28, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

Troglodyke, Please form your own gay scout club and leave the boy scouts alone. I am an educated “religious” person and don’t consider myself an idiot.

DaveD, Lay off the cocaine, dude.

By DaveD

May 28, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

yes AMY….the city owns the “land”…they are NOT charging rent for the building…but the very “land” it sits on…what part do you not understand about that? Same goes in Atlanta, NYC, Chicago, etc. Even if one owns the building…yet the land is “leased”…it MUST pay rent…at the “current rate”….once again…another one that need to “educate” themself beside listening to Rush or Hannity…you know…the 2 collge “drop outs”….me? I prefer those with ADVANCED DEGREES for my information…

Ever hear of a “library”…? Stop thinking the bible is “true”…as it belongs in the library…filed under “fiction”….

sad you do not know how the “world….WORKS”….too bad the boyscouts dod not buy the LAND back then….

guess what? The EMPIRE STATE BUILDING pays RENT to the city of NY! Should they (the owners of it) too get a reduced rate? Or just straight pedophile boyscout troop leaders? ;-0

By Hah

May 28, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

I think DEATH TO LIBERALISM doth protest too much.

By bill

May 28, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

Gee, I see, “Don’t ask, don’t tell;” as good for the military but bad for scouting. I would prefer there be no closets. While pedophilia is a greater problem with heterosexuals that is the fear that drives these exclusionary practices. Shouldn’t children get real experience dealing with homosexuals in person instead of from sitcom reruns?

By An Eagle Scout

May 28, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

I am an Eagle Scout and who, as a child in Scouting, was molested by an adult volunteer. I fully support the preference made by the Boy Scouts of America to form a group of people who share common interests and are aligned by the same standards. We believe morally straight is more than just part of a phrase, but a standard for life. The great experiment of labeling every lifestyle as perfectly acceptable has created a cancer in America.

Many of you are laughing out loud at my thoughts; perhaps some of you are even scared that a person in this time thinks that honoring God, family and country are valued. The thought that some of us believe premarital sex is wrong, that marriage is to be between a man and a woman, that sex outside of marriage is wrong is unthinkable to many of you, I am sure. The Bible says that what is right will seem foolish to those who are not righteous. I am not righteous, but I strive to be. The Boy Scouts added to a foundation began by my parents and bolstered by a relationship with Jesus Christ.

Please do not spin the fact that I was molested by an adult Scout volunteer as affecting my opinion on this. I realize the difference in a person being a homosexual and a person being a pedophile. Any person abusing their leadership role, as this leader did, should be removed and possibly prosecuted. This would include priests, pastors, politicians and anyone else in a leadership role.

To believe that there is a war against the individual, against standards of living, against the church and groups such as the Boy Scouts is either naïve or an indication that the person holding the belief is part of the problem.

By Abomi Nation

May 28, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

Yes Troglodyke, the infamous “morally straight” line. God’s word.

At the same time ignoring God’s word when it convieniently covers up their own indiscretions.

There are what, thousands of divorced scout leaders out there? Can you believe these morally corrupt people are allowed to guide our youth? Jesus himself called divorce an abomination and yet these people are allowed to camp with our children!!!

Attention Boy Scouts! This will lead our children into a life of divorce! This child may latter try to marry animals!!

The Bible says to round up all the immoral divorced people and keep them away from our children. Hate the sin love the sinner. Divorce is a choice.

Its in the Bible. God’s word.

By DEATH TO LIBERALISM

May 28, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

@ DickweedDave

your pathetic puke up the bleeding obvious post adds NOTHING to the debate.

Obviously sick male paedophiles who prey on young girls heavily outnumber queer homosexual paedophiles. SO WHAT??? This merely reflects the normal, natural so called heterosexual sex drive in almost everyone except f aggots and d ykes. Did you also know it can ONLY rain when its at least a little bit cloudy.

BUT - the never ending cycle of abuse of other boys in later life by young boys/teens abused by older paedophiles is staggering. Keeping queers out of a PRIVATE org, as allowed by SCOTUS is perfectly reasonable. Leftist filth ONLY approve of social engineering when THEIR ‘adherents’ are being excluded.

Leftist fascists need to STOP forcing normal folks to accept queers - tolerance is one thing, homosexuals following the laws should be left to QUIETLY live how they choose. Forced acceptance of queers is utterly despicable and will ALWAYS be resisted by the normal reasonable majority.

By The Truth

May 28, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

DaveD, You have no right to tell ANYONE what to believe. Are you now a theologian? I have an MBA from Duke and I know that I am FAR more advanced than you. A degree in journalism does not make a person smarter than you or I. I can make up my own mind, based on common sense and education, about who to listen to. You have a vendetta against Rush and Hannity and that’s your problem. Not mine.

By the way, the Bible has been around longer than ANY other written book. I’ll choose to believe that over a sniveling little snot such as yourself. If you ever wonder why people despise liberalism then you should take a look at yourself.

By bill

May 28, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Gee, I see, “Don’t ask, don’t tell;” as good for military but bad for scouting. I would prefer there be no closets. While pedophilia is a greater problem with heterosexuals that is the fear that drives these exclusionary practices. Shouldn’t children get real experience dealing with homosexuals in person instead of from sitcom reruns?

By DaveD

May 28, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

The “truth” (meaning the propagandist that supported this war in Iraq..haha)…

Cocaine? Nah…what YOU need to do..is lay off that bible…learn to READ the “truth”…

Sad you think that a dude named Noah once had an ARK…

but if he did…that makes him you relative…and what happened to those that were already colored, or asian, or indian? Did Noah round them up as well? What happens if they were infertile? Maybe there were MORE races…and some WERE infertile!!!!

PEDOS are STRAIGHT WHITE GUYS THAY LIKE LITTLE KIDS…most of all: little girls….

YOU might need to take a DEEP look into your mirror…

stop telling lies…sad you do not KNOW they are lies…sad you fail to EDUCATE yourself….

once agian….READ!!!! (not those that had c- averages and did not finish college)…read those that have made their LIVES about learning…teaching…sharing..

too much for you..i know..i know..

enjoy that SUV and $4 gas!

By anonymous

May 28, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Once again Mr. Wooten has opened the flood gates of bias and hostility. I’m sure he will pray for everyone to love one another at church this Sunday.

By Dusty

May 28, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

David D. @11:36

Once again, today’s subject is about BOY SCOUTS, not little girls.

As to hate, I find plenty of hate in your post. I am interested in the welfare of children. Today, we are discussing Boy Scouts, a most worthwhile institution.

I think gays have the civil rights of all citizens. They have established and celebrated their own reputation of “alternative” sexual behavior. I do not think their fields of endeavor and example should be in the classes and clubs of impressionable children.

The Boy Scouts feel the same way. They probably learned from unfortunate past experiences they wish to avoid. The Catholic Church also learned. They started “rehab” by removing known gays from seminaries. Why do you think they did that?

By DaveD