Thinking Right

By The AllahFuerher

March 26, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

78 million times 1000/month = 78 billion a month = one trillion per year.

A trillion dollars just so Fat Aging Baby Boomers With Glasses (FABB4EYES) can go fishing with their grand/month. Stock advice? Buy worms and beatles.

By jbmlaw

March 26, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

Good morning all. Curious and different approach to the SocSec debate today; we are to discuss, not what is best for the country nor the appropriate resolution to ensure financial solvency of the system, but (1) whether we regard social security a necessary element of retirement, and (2) whether we would opt out of the system. Answers: (1) No, and (2) Yes.

By Glenn

March 26, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

How much? Hardly at all. Opt out? I’d want a (stepped) means test that would disqualify me from receiving benefits while pooling everyone’s contributions to provide a meaningful safety net for those who need it.

By @@

March 26, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

It was not in the planning for retirement, largely because Congress can change benefits or raise the retirement age at any time it chooses.

In other words, government can control the lives of those who need it. No thanks!

My husband and I haven’t relied on SS since IRAs became available, but I’m not certain I would opt out if given the chance today. I’d probably opt out when it comes time to draw thus leaving it there for others who have been duped by “OUR” government.

Always…always…PAY YOURSELF FIRST. It’s amazing what a little self-discipline can do in securing your future.

By Peter

March 26, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

Gee Jim,

Bush did do his part He spent all our money on a made up WAR, so there will not be any left for Social Security……

Yes now we have the Wrongs lined up to help Roger Clemens……

I guess the Republicans, can’t find ways to balance the budget, get us out of WAR, but have the time to help this idiot who has lied to us all.

He must not be a Democrat, or he would be getting fried by the Wrongs!

I guess coming from Texas helps !

By deegee

March 26, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

What would Suze Orman do?

By @@

March 26, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

Allow me to clarify. I’ve always had a bit of a problem with the PAY YOURSELF FIRST. At the risk of enraging the anti-Christian left, I pay HIM the first 10%+ to do the work that HIS were created to do.

Then I PAY MYSELF SECOND.

The government DICTATES what I pay them.

Done.

By The AllahFuerher

March 26, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

I hate the expression, “pay yourself first”.

The idea that you can secure a future is equally foolish. Chaos rules the universe and will scramble your plans.

Then you get a skin rash and croak. That’s your social security, 401K plan, and retirement egg. The only way you can secure a future is to steal it. Some folks gots mausoleums in the bone yard worth more than some folk’s homes.

Not so much a stairway to heaven as a worm farm. Go fishing, Baby Boomers. Go fishing.

By GaEducated

March 26, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

Retirement, planning. I don’t think they taught us about that stuff in Georgia schools. Nope. I had to learn about that all on my own. I think the first time that I was introduced to the concept of retirement planning was after I went to work for a major corporation and they asked me if I wanted to sign up for the 401k program. Of course, my first thoughts were along the lines of “Wow, they sure have a lot of programs. They’re up to 401, version k already”. Then they had to go and mention a 529 plan and that just left me speechless.

I wonder what all those government workers — elected, appointed, hired, contracted, etc. — do about retirement. Do any of them get as good a deal for the money the government takes from their pay. Maybe I’ll have to ask that of a few knowledgeable people such as Casey and Saxby. They’ll tell me straight and not tease me or brush me off or make an inside joke out of it, won’t they?

Anyway, Jim. Considering how much “things” can change in the course of even a few years, how could I possibly think about Social Security when I won’t even qualify for it — under current requirements — for another ten years. By then, I fully expect to see the Social Security Administration merged with a major corporation. It will probably be re-named as well. Something like Retire-Mart or Wal-Aged. At least that’s what I envision for us tax payers. I’m sure our elected officials will have created something entirely different for themselves. After all, they have the Power. It’s just Common Sense.

By jbmlaw

March 26, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

Dear Jim Wooten, I wish to urge a topic for tomorrow. Yesterday the Supreme Court issued its most significant ruling since Baker v Carr, in the Medellin v Texas case. One of our bloggers jumped the gun yesterday afternoon, but this one has enough sexy issues to stir a pretty good left v intelligent debate (interpretation of treaties, state’s rights, capital punishment, power of the executive. Our leftists may add “judicial activism” although the real “activism” is the effort of the International Court to insert itself into a local criminal trial.) A real oddity too, JP Stevens concurred with the conservatives. Could be fun.

By Tom Pain

March 26, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

Those left with any intelligence abandoned those who falsely claimed to be right about their conservatism.

By Dennis

March 26, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

It is amazing how Mr. Wooten can continue to put the spins on social security that he does, especially invest in the stock market.

He either will not admit that only those who are not informed plan for social security to be their only retirement, nor that social security being their only retirement is the hand that life dealt them.

His statement, “As one of those 78 million baby boomers, I don’t expect Social Security to be a major factor in my retirement years. It was not in the planning for retirement, largely because Congress can change benefits or raise the retirement age at any time it chooses”, presupposes that everyone has had the same opportunites and information that he has had and that if they didn’t it is because they were all “bad decision makers” - nevermind their situation into life into which they were born.

Those who do the grunt work in this country and do it well, which benefits both me and Mr. Wooten, deserve a comfortable piece of this nations bounty rather than being disparaged by those who are making better saleries, or will be better off in retirement.

To say they are not deserving is Christian hypocracy and ethically corrupt.

Had these people made the same decisions and had the same breaks that Mr. Wooten and I have had, we both would have a lot less than we now have (or he will have when he retires).

You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.

By getalife

March 26, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

You should retire Jim.

Told ya it was unraveling in Iraq.

First he blamed Whitey and now the Jews:

“Obama advisor blames ‘New York, Miami Jews’ for failed peace process

General Merrill “Tony” McPeak, Senator Barack Obama’s military advisor and co-chair of his presidential campaign is a longtime anti-Israeli critic who has slammed Israel harshly during his career. McPeak also charged that Jews and Christian Zionists manipulated American foreign policy in Iraq.”

His radical kook preacher is in hiding, he went on vacation to “just be left alone” and is not ready for prime time.

He should drop out if he wants to be left alone.

By Peter

March 26, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

Jim,

Doesn’t make that much money and I bet doesn’t MAX out the payments each year…..

So he doesn’t really care that we are getting ripped off by OUR Government !

That said, no I would not totally count on that money, but it should come back to me as I paid in.

Bush has tried to help us there ?????

HA HA HA Jim what a funny comment….

When has BUSH actually tried to help the common American ?

By The AllahFuerher

March 26, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

Will social security be found for baby boomers like the wmds were found? Lets look at the satellite map of souls leaving the insurance tables for heaven/hell.

78 million baby boomers. the insurance industry bets on an average life expectancy of 70 years. So the bulk of baby boomers will be dead by 2025. The insurance companies are never wrong because they’ve been right by virtue of their existence. If they bet wrong, they’re outta biz.

So there’s a ten year gap between solvency and…..OMG! We’re going to die soon, baby boomers, dont you get it? That’s what wooten doesn’t know himself what the point of his piece today is. Wooten is afraid. I’m afraid. What’s going to happen to the world when we’re gone? How will the ten billion people who will be alive in the year 2025 get along without our bloggings?

But what about us? Where are we going? Up or down. Most of us didn’t really believe we’d ever get old. If you are over fifty, then you know how short life is, and how gossamer time is, you cant really gauge it, years are expressed in terms of fleeting impressions in your brain. Most baby boomers have ten or fifteen years left.

If we are soon 2B of the spirit, and if we can possibly affect the material world we live in after we pass on, then I swear that though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will kick Philo Beddo’s azz!

By GayGreyGeek

March 26, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

getalife - Hillary Huckabee needs to back off of the Tonya Harding option, lest she make John McCain into Oksana Baiul: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/dnc-official-cl.html

By SAM

March 26, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

I worked for a school system for 32 years that opted out of Social Security in the early 80’s.

At that time, the system established 403B {IRA} accounts for each employee and paid into each individual acccount the money it would have put into Social Security. In addition, the employee was able to contribute pre tax dollars up to the maximum allowed by the IRS>. The employees were given a number of options for where the money would go…including mutual funds at Fidelity and others [with different risk levels], as well as Fixed annuity accounts. In all there were always 4 or 5 options which changed occasionally.

Fortunately, I was able to contribute the maximum each year until my retirement in 2005. I divided contributions as most financial advisors recommend… mostly stocks until the 3 years before retirement and then in less risky investments. As the market often does, the stock market took the tumble in the 90’s my balance was reduced significantly and it took some time to get back to where I was before the loss.

Even with my conscientious attention to this private retirement plan, and accumulating more $$ than most people are able to, THERE IS NO WAY THESE FUNDS WOULD LAST THROUGHOUT MY RETIREMENT.

Fortunately, school systems are one of the few remaining jobs that provide pensions for employees. [So I was also contributing money from each paycheck to the Teacher Retirement fund.]

By Rick

March 26, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

The school system I work for opted out of Social Security years before. Hundreds of other smart school systems, local governments and government agencies saw the black hole SS would become and got out before Congress closed the door

I’m not counting on getting one cent from SS. With my own accounts, the Teachers Retirement System and other investments… when I retire I’ll probably earn more than I did when I was working.

By GaEducated

March 26, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

All this time, I though leeches sucked the life out of a person. Not so. Just look at Demi. She definitely has not had any life sucked out. In fact, she claims that leeches have given her that look. So, why isn’t government having the same effect on all of us. Now that would be a real Social Security benefit. Or, is it a Medicaid benefit. What the heck. I’m sure it’s not covered.

By Rick

March 26, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

The school system I work for opted out of Social Security years before. Hundreds of other smart school systems, local governments and government agencies saw the black hole SS would become and got out before Congress closed the door

I’m not counting on getting one cent from SS. With my own accounts, the Teachers Retirement System and other investments… when I retire I’ll probably earn more than I did when I was working.

By Rick

March 26, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

The school system I work for opted out of Social Security years before. Hundreds of other smart school systems, local governments and government agencies saw the black hole SS would become and got out before Congress closed the door

I’m not counting on getting one cent from SS. With my own accounts, the Teachers Retirement System and other investments… when I retire I’ll probably earn more than I did when I was working.

By Glenn

March 26, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

GGG @ 9:57,

The Tonya option, eh? Alternatively she could do a Zola Budd: run with Obama (Mary Decker) and then on the home stretch find a sudden need to plant a giant sidestep that just happens to trip him and lose him the race.

Nah, that’s not as good an analogy as the Tonya one; were Hillary to pull a Zola, Bill would be crouching in the way of Obama-Decker for the body block. Which raises the interesting question, where would Bill be in the Tonya scenario? Ah yes, the fat, self-styled bodyguard with the hammer.

It might be darkly funny were Billary not already doing The Tonya.

By SAM

March 26, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

IMO, speaking as one who has taken all the recommended steps toward saving for retirement: a person with an average….or even above average income, raising an average family, who does not have pension income, will not be able to save/invest enough in IRA’s and other investments to sustain a even a healthy 20 year retirement. The growth rate of invested funds is by no means stable and neither is when the market will take a dip…..could be just as you are retiring!

By ron

March 26, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Good morning Jim,In America today Social Security looms large in the retirement financing of the average worker.IRA’S,401K’S,union pensions,company pensions,and savings are only supplements,because of the small amounts available.It may be a surprise to you to find out that the people that actually do the work in America aren’t paid all that well.Why don’t you take a drive around someday,Jim,and vist places where people actually get their hands dirty making a living and ask them what they get paid?Take this figure and transpose it to your own retirement planning and see what changes you would have had to make.

By GaEducated

March 26, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

I wonder if age has any bearing on this topic. Let’s see:

At age 25, opt out of S.S. or stay in? Opt out.

At age 55, opt out or stay in? Hmm. If I opt out, do I get a “rollover” of at least my principal? May even 3 or 4% compounded annually? Anything?

What do you think, Jim? Does the government owe us any of what we paid in?

By GayGreyGeek

March 26, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Glenn @ 10:18 - I believe that would mean Bill was playing the part of Jeff Gillooly. Not the hammer-wielder, since, similar to Harding and Gilooly, the Clintons are using minions like Carville and Ferraro to do their dirty work.

Which, of course, means the next step for Billary is an infamous adult-only “tape”. Ewwwwww, BrainBleachNow, please…

But, yeah, Hillary Huckabee is so bound and determined to grab the nomination that she’s willing to do so at the cost of the election. It’s really pitiful that her sheeple like getaclue can’t see that, won’t see that, adamantly refuse to see that…

By The AllahFuerher

March 26, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

My retirement plan is that I’m going to make my own beef jerky. Thank you, Ronco.

Set it, and forget it.

By SAM

March 26, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

Last comment for the day: I have been retired for 2 1/2 years and at the end of this year, I will have received EVERY PENNEY that I put into the pension fund….plus all of the 32 year earnings of that money. Those of you without pensions, who are funding your own retirement from your own earnings, without help from inherited money, etc. may think you will not need Social Security for reitrement. You are in for a big shock!!!!!

By getalife

March 26, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

Tonya Harding?

How stupid.

Clinton will just let Obama and his advisers run their ignorant racist mouths and she will get the superdelegates.

He is devisive and his unity message is bs and you know it.

By Glenn

March 26, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

If I get to opt out, I want my money back so I can spend it on guns and beer. Somebody’s got to pay the cost of this war…

By Real Conservatism

March 26, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

Jim needs to replace the “thinking” part out of the title of this blog, and replace it with “parroting.”

All he does is bring up the same tired issues that have been “priorities” for the last eight years but nothing has ever been done about.

Oh wait, it’s election year, lets try and rally the normal conservatives and conservative christians to the neocon base with divisive issues we have no intent of ever addressing.

Six years of control of all three branches of the federal government… and no bills or solutions to the following campaign issues…

Gay Marriage (anyone talk about this anymore..really used it to secure the christian vote in 04..duped them good)

Social security (Bush certainly did his part…just vomitted in my mouth)

Immigration (hows that fence? or deportation? oh no its called defacto amnesty when NOTHING is done.)

Fiscal responsibility (Oh wait, I don’t think they ever ran on this..they’ll just spend, not TAX and spend.)

So heading up to election 08, jim will drag out each one of these over-played always shelved campaign wedge issues, of which nothing will be accomplished, reshelve them and dust them off for election 2012.

next weeks column…Gay Married illegal Immigrants recieving Amnesty, retiring on Social Security,getting Universal Healthcare while your money is Redistributed to them by turban wearing Iranians in joint conjunction with American socialist party.

By The AllahFuerher

March 26, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Hillary’s voice has been neutralized by her own left foot in her own fat mouth.

I dont matter hooey what she says anymore, Obama will win the nomination and then the election.

I personally know this and gaurantee it. How? Because I know the America that has formed since 911. It’s not your father’s America.

Obama 08 : he’s not your father, he’s your brother, and he’s got an older sistah for you, (lady liberty)

By KR

March 26, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

I’m in my mid 40’s. My retirement plans don’t include anything from Social Security. If there is something there, it will be a bonus (sort of..).

My bigger concern is Medicare. With the current cost of private health insurance premiums, there is no way I will be able to afford to buy my own policy after I reach age 65. That is unless I’m willing to forego a roof over my head and regular meals.

Looks like I’m back to either winning the lottery or using the DAMD retirement plan. (Die At My Desk)

By SAM

March 26, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

GaEducated @10:29 My system opted out of Social Sec. and began IRA’s in the 80’s… Maximum allowed Contributions to IRA’s began at that time…plus the extra that the system put in…..NOT ENOUGH to fund retirement,

By ron

March 26, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

jbmlaw,Your suggested subject for tomorrow has faces on it only a lawyer could love.George must be wondering what happened.

By Jim's a Cherry Picker

March 26, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

Hi Jim,

Yep…GW’s doing his part ok. Things are Great!

Hey, btw, did you notice this lil’ nugget from free-marketeer Paulson yesterday:

“WASHINGTON - The crash of Wall Street’s once mighty Bear Stearns underscores the need to bring investment houses under the kind of federal oversight that has long been given to commercial banks, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said Wednesday.”

That’s right…straight from the mouth of a capitalist’s capitalist: More Regulation.

What’s this world coming to? You should talk to him Jim.

By GayGreyGeek

March 26, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

getlife - the only “racist mouths” that are running right now are Billary and their minions. As you’ve repeatedly pointed out, Obama is being a Good Parent and is spending time off the campaign trail with his children.

Of course, Hillary Huckabee keeps Swiftboating herself with bon mots like “under sniper fire”, where the only thing “under fire” is her own foot from her own gun. I can’t wait until Sheriff Andy Obama finally takes away Deputy Barney Clinton’s bullet.

By JK

March 26, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

Do I count on Social Security? Only to the extent that I’ve been paying into it all these years. Yes, it had better be there for me, as spending the SS money on something ELSE would be an egregious violation of trust between government and the people it serves. Who would DO a thing like that?

What’s next, dumping our entire treasury into the pockets of war profiteers, borrowing trillions from China and the Saudis, and sticking future generations with the debt? Stop saying such things, Mr. Wooten, that’s downright UN-American!!

By George Washington

March 26, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

The fat cats think of social security as icing on the cake, the working man thinks of it as a main source of income in old age. Since I am a fat cat myself, I am reluctant to suggest a means test. On the other hand, I can and will urge a lifting of all limits on contributions. Those of us who make over 100,000 green thins per year do not pay social security taxes on the excess. We should apply social security taxes to all earned income, including stock options, stock grants, and capital gains on employment related investments, with no upper income limit. If anything, the percent of contribution should be increased. Just look at Steve Shaftman at the blackishstone group, he pulled 625 million dollars out of the ipo, and paid only a 15 percent capital gains tax. Under my plan, he would have paid both the employer and the employee’s share of social security and medicare taxes.

By The AllahFuerher

March 26, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

Look to Lady Liberty!

By Lily Toad

March 26, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

All it takes to fund Social Security for all the boomers is to (a) eliminate the 90K cap and tax all income for SS, (b) stop raiding the SS fund for war and other things.

I contribute a lot to my company 401K because I am FORTUNATE to work for such a company. But it is mostly invested in the stock market (my choice) and is therefore vulnerable to market changes. I’m relying on SS as a supplement to my savings and company contributions. If the stock market tanks right after I retire, that’ll impact my witdrawals and the SS will help.

Since many people don’t have monthly pensions, the idea of a payment that continues until death (or beyond for the privileged married survivor) is valuable, so in that way SS will always supplant a Retirement Savings Account that could run out if one lives long enough.

By Jackie

March 26, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

Social Security has been funded by all of us who have worked.

The Congress has “borrowed” from the fund and still uses it to mask the MASSIVE deficits accumulated in our names.

The Social Security dilemma could be resolved with raising the maximum earnings amount from $90,000 to $180,000 yearly.

In other words, you would continue to pay Social Security taxes on all earned income up to $180,000.

An example of “socialized” medicine (Medicare/MedicAid) that could be used in this country to solve our problem would be the Canadian or Australian models.

We are the ONLY country in the western world that does not provide medical coverage to all citizens.

In Australia, they pay 2.5% tax for medical coverage, including mental, dental, drugs, elective.

The National Institute of Health provides roughly 70% of the money to drug companies, in the way of grants, for Research and Development. Drugs companies spend more on advertisement than they do on research. Drug companies sell their drugs to foreign markets cheaper than they sell them to US citizens because they get a higher Return-On-Investment.

Corporate welfare is still alive and well.

By Mr. Common Man

March 26, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

My health insurance coverage cost more than three times what my family’s medical expenses last year (all out of pocket, since I’m not in a PPO and my wife always insisted on seeing out-of-network docs when we were). If I ever get a serious illness, I will let it kill me, because I’m not going to let the cost of treatment endanger my family’s future.

By George Washington

March 26, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

I would just like to point out that all of the ten billion dollars plus that we have given to Israel each and every year for the last 50 years has come from the social security surplus…Because we have been running a deficit all that time and using social security revenues to make that deficit look smaller than it really is….

By Peter

March 26, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

Jim is quite the Joker today with this comment….

“Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson predicts a train wreck. “Without change, rising costs will drive government spending to unprecedented levels,” he said, “consume nearly all projected federal reserves and threaten America’s future prosperity.”

I guess he failed to mention all the horrible policy’s that BUSH has created that has contributed to the TRAIN WRECK we have of an economy, and the TRAIN WRECK we have for a deficit.

And the Biggest TRAIN WRECK of them all is the made up WAR, that is bankrupting America, so we will NOT get what we all paid in for Social Security.

HA HA HA JIM…..you are a funny GUY !

By W

March 26, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

My loyal believers, uh, I mean, followers,

It has been brought to my attention that a few of you are concerned about your social security. Well, just let me assure you that I have been and will continue to look after your social security. Your social security is of the utmost importance to me. That’s why I have asked congress to approve my Patriot Act. After all, do you want to be able to go to bed at night with the knowledge that your house is secure against those that would attack you or even fly a plane straight at you — in your house. Banks — OK. Your house — NO WAY. That is assuming of course that the bank is closed. I mean what is left in a bank of any value after working hours? U.S. currency? I don’t think so. Home mortgages? What planet are you from.

Now, don’t you feel more secure already. Have you seen my latest tap dance.

Thank You, Your Leader, W.

By GayGreyGeek

March 26, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Peter @ 11:32 - Jim, like his parrots jbmlaw and the DustBuster, don’t enjoy being bothered with things like “demonstrable facts” or “documented truth”. They’d rather run around claiming that the sky is a bright purple Madras plaid, that Brownie did a heckuva job, that there are WMDs in Iraq, and that although we reached “Mission Accomplished” several years ago that we have to stay in Iraq for the next 100 years until “victory” is reached.

Of course, can any of ‘em defined “victory”? Nooooo, because then we might meet the definition and after that, what would they have to rail against?

By The AllahFuerher

March 26, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

The Iraq war is only costing about 3 trillion dollars when you calculate all of the opportunity costs of not spending that money in america (and invoking the multiplier effect).

I speet on 3 trillion dollars. It’s nothing. We’re fine. Good for the Iraqis that they get the money and not us. Business is booming in Iraq….literally.

By Curious Observer

March 26, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

How appropriate that Wooten would raise the Social Security topic on the day that my monthly check showed up in my bank account!

I’ve done some calculations on my “return on investment” related to Social Security. It will take me more than nine years to receive the $220,000 my employers and I have contributed to the system over the past 57 years—and since I’m still employed, I’m still contributing. And that figure doesn’t even impute any assumed interest. So much for the notion that Social Security is an “entitlement”—at least in my case.

Others I know will draw all out all their contributions within two years of beginning to receive benefits.

The fact is that Social Security is an insurance program, one that skews the benefit formula heavily toward lower-income people. If you’ve seen the benefit formula, as I have, you’ll know what I mean.

But here’s my gripe about the system. Congress has borrowed every penny of Social Security contributions over the past twenty years, primarily to mask a deficit. And the last time an alarm was sounded about the system, contribution percentages and the minimum retirement age were both raised. Meanwhile, Congress was busy in buying votes—making more and more categories of people eligible for benefits.

Now, the bills are coming due, thanks to the Baby Boomers, and the alarms are sounding again. As soon as the 2008 elections are over, we’ll see the formation of another commission and recommendations for more fixes—probably for increasing the retirement age further and raising the base on which contributions are deducted, if not the percentage of the contributions.

We are never going to see a sound system so long as Congress is allowed to manipulate it to keep raising benefits and expanding eligibility. And yet, we need that system to be sound. You are dreaming if you think that maxing out IRA contributions will fund a long-term retirement. Meanwhile, we are destined to see Republicans keep pursuing their dreams of eliminating Social Security and Democrats keep ignoring the very real problems with the existing system.

Fix it, and then leave it alone.

By MissionImp

March 26, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

Jim,

Your mission today, should you have the courage to accept it, is just a question for you to answer. Here is the background information you will need. You were self-employed for 30 years and you paid Social Security Tax once per year on your earnings. Your yearly taxable earnings averaged to $60,000 and your average yearly Social Security Tax was 12.4% of these earnings. Your tax payments earn no return for the thirty years that you made payments. Now for the hard part, Jim. How much of your tax payments, based on these average values, are now locked away in a vault — a special vault, a vault that is even stronger than a Gore vault — for your future use?

As usual Jim, the content of this message has self-destructed years ago so there no use in trying to destroy it again.

By Peter

March 26, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Yes “By GayGreyGeek”..Mission has been accomplished….Bush and ALL his OIL, and Military buddies are rich.

American is in a downwards slide, China is getting tons of our money, AND Iraq is about to spin into a Civil War.

Yes Mission has been accomplished, now the last thing for BUSH to do is get out of office, and leave his mess for someone else to clean up.

That is what THEY call….. “Family Values” !

By Redneck Convert

March 26, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

Well, I still think jbmlaw had the best idea. Just round up all the old folk and put them in the Old Folks Army. Problem solved. No more people to get checks and leastwise we get something out of these old bums. We can use the Social Security money to fund the war, and we’ll need every penny if it’s going to last 100 years. Soon as a codger reaches 67 or so, he gets a draft notice and his whole fambly goes. Like I said before, we may need to spend a little at first on rifles that don’t weigh much and maybe some bingo places and shuffleboard courts and movie places when they ain’t on the front line.

Me, I ain’t counting on Social Security. That’s why I made me a cement vault to throw any extra money into. I hid it good so it will be there when that Pelousy woman decides to raise our taxes on wages and savings and My President ain’t in office no more to veto it.

Anyhow, if people get too old to work they can join the Old Folks Army. And them that ain’t able to serve can show up at churches and the Salvation Army for handouts. Or maybe they can be part of a Mine Detail that goes along roads and fields to blow up any bombs they step on like the Russians done in WW2. If God wanted you to have Social Security you would of been borned with a Social Security number on your body. This Social Security is just the Devil’s work. It ain’t Christian and it ain’t right.

Have a good day everybody.

By ghost rider

March 26, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

Jackie you sent me this which has nothing to do with this rant..but I wanted to greet you and answer…

Viet Nam (1968 - 1969, HHC 13th Sig, 1st Cav Div)

Me:

Viet Name (1965-1966, 229 AB..1st cav (AM)

By Jackie

March 26, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Many have been saying that “we have the greatest health care system in the world.”

If that is true, why are we having a major discussion about funding Grady and kicking 60,000 poor children off the health care rolls?

Why do we have more than 40 Million Americans without health care?

The numbers discredit the propoganda.

We need to get real with out government. Either they do what is in the best interest of all citizens, or, vote their hips out of office, even recall/impeach them.

We all have a goal of providing the the best we can for ourselves and our families. With that simple thought in mind, why do we have someone between us and our desire to provide for our families? My answer to this question is greed, pure and simple.

If we all had an opportunity to work and earn a wage that could accomplish our caretaker role, many, many problems would be solved.

By ghost rider

March 26, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

another typo should have been nam not name

By Jackie

March 26, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

@ghostrider,

When you said that you were a young aviator in the ‘Nam, most of those folks in your position were connect to the 1st Cav because of the new concept being developed with air mobility.

SALUTE!!!!

By ron

March 26, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Redneck,You been sampling off the truck again?

By Carbon Footprint

March 26, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Social Security. the new deal. FDR’s folly. Is it socialism? Should we be ashamed of the greatest generation for agreeing to enact social security? Is Obama related to FDR?

Entitlements stunt productivity. Taxes stunt growth. We tax to give entitlements, so our economy receives a double wallop and we all turn into Mao-lovin’ scum.

Send more troops to Iraq and end social security forever.

By Copyleft

March 26, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Social Security was never supposed to be an investment package. Comparing to one is dishonest and misleading—in other words, a classic conservative tactic.

By Carbon Footprint

March 26, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

End social security. It’s pie in the sky. It’s a little birdie flying up your nose. It’s hooey!

ISAIDHOOEY!

By getalife

March 26, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

They need to payback the money they borrowed and wasted on corporate welfare from these accounts before spewing about it Jim.

“Republicans believe in the free market for profit, but they’re Socialists when it comes to losses.”

Then there is the Iraqi welfare.

Retire hack.

By George Washington

March 26, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

YOU’RE DOING A HECK OF A JOB, GEORGIE!

California freefall: Home prices fell 26% in February Signs of distress are piling up in the California housing market, where prices are falling at three times the national rate of decline.

—Statewide, median sales prices fell by a stunning 26% in February, with home prices dropping at a rate of nearly $3,000 a week, the California Association of Realtors reports. Further, the CAR says the Fed’s interest rate-cutting campaign “will have little near-term direct effect on the housing market.”

—In the San Fernando Valley, losing a home to foreclosure is now almost as common for families as buying a home. The LA Daily News: “During January and February, there were 1,084 foreclosures and 1,335 sales of houses and condos in Valley communities from Glendale to Calabasas, according to the San Fernando Valley Economic Research Center at California State University, Northridge.”

“It’s bad. It’s really bad,” market analyst Nima Nattagh told the Daily News.

The CAR reports median prices fell 27.2% from year-ago levels in the hard-hit Inland Empire east of Los Angeles, 30.9% in Sacramento, and 39.1% in Santa Barbara County.

On a percentage basis, the California price meltdown is more than three times as severe as the national decline of 8.2% in median prices reported this week by the National Association of Realtors. On an absolute basis, the California meltdown is even more severe: Nationally, prices fell over the past year at a rate of $338 per week; in California, prices fell at a rate of $2,788 per week.

According to the CAR, “the median sales price of median price of an existing, single-family detached home in California during February 2008 was $409,240, a 26.2 percent decrease from the revised $554,280 median for February 2007, C.A.R. reported. The February 2008 median price fell 4.8 percent compared with January’s revised $429,790 median price.

“The Federal Reserve Bank’s recent action to reduce the federal funds rate will have little near-term direct effect on the housing market,” said C.A.R. Vice President and Chief Economist Leslie Appleton-Young. “However, Fed rate cuts should result in more favorable real estate finance rates as we move through the year.”

By Carbon Footprint

March 26, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

The baby in the well in India survived and is doing fine, rescuers said today. India is only twenty years behind the united states in paparazzi news with this latest event. Remember Baby Jessica? What will India do next to one-up the USA? Is Obama related to this rescued Indian baby?

By GayGreyGeek

March 26, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

CarbonToes @ 1:55 - Who cares if Obama is related to the baby? I want to know if BRAD or ANGELINA is related to the baby. Or if the baby is BRITNEY’S.

After all, we gotta keep the minds of the Great Unwashed Masses (what minds there are, of course) on Bread And Circuses…

By GaEducated

March 26, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

End Social Security — right after you give me what I paid in along with penalties and interest comparable to what the IRS would charge me if I owed them the money. Put that in your pipe, kimosabe.

By Carbon Footprint

March 26, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

It seems the only person Obama’s not related or connected to is his pastor.

By deegee

March 26, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

Perhaps the reason that W’s plan ran afoul, “allowing the young to sock away a portion of their payroll taxes into a fund they could own and pass along to their heirs”, is because democrats actually understand the system and know that the social security taxes we pay today are spent on the people that are retired today. They aren’t kept in a lockbox waiting for us when we retire. Diverting a portion of social security taxes into individual retirement accounts would accelerate the train wreck that the government bean counters predict is headed our way. Instead, the government made it more attractive for companies to match the contributions that their employees make into their individual retirement accounts. At some point in the near future the number of workers paying social security taxes will be insufficient to cover the checks going to the old farts. Hopefully the annuities that we are counting on to carry us through our golden years will hold up. If not, then we can just eat our young.

By George Washington

March 26, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Gee, they rescued the baby…big deal..they already have 1.1 billion people, so now what, the count is up to 1,100,000,001? There goes to planet….

By Carbon Footprint

March 26, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

Cheney, Bush, Brad Pit…..It seems the only person Obama’s not connected to in any way is his pastor.

By GaEducated

March 26, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

Let’s see. Our Republican leaders like to model social programs after the tried-and-true programs implemented in corporate America. Pension plans have been replaced with 401k plans (at least those that were not robbed or turned over to the government to fund). Healthcare benefits have been whittled down to eliminate much of what was once covered and the remainder costs at least ten times more. I guess that should tell us what to expect with Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid.

By Carbon Footprint

March 26, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Cheney, Brad Pitt…it seems the only person Obama’s not connected to some way now is his Pastor.

You may rate this joke here and in this fashion: One <=3 means you laughed. Two <=3’s means you cried. Three <=3’s means you developed a rash reading this drivel. Four <=3’s means you now have joined alqueda just to get even with a country who could produce a joke writer this bad.

By Lily Toad

March 26, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

What baby??? Oh, right, I just get my news from NPR and the newspaper. This must be some TV sob story diverting the public from real stories like what the Bambi Bandits wore to court.

By Lily Toad

March 26, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

What baby??? Oh, right, I just get my news from NPR and the newspaper. This must be some TV sob story diverting the public from real stories like what the Bambi Bandits wore to court.

By Jackie

March 26, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

The surge in Iraqi is beginning to unravel; the price of homes in CA are falling more than $3,000 per week; the number of jobs are not keeping pace with the need to maintain the American citizens; the loss of wealth is estimated at more than $1.5 Trillion dollars, Antarctic ice shelf the size of Connecticut is about to break off, the CEO of Shell Oil speaking about getting our energy policy resolved because petroleum is not the future.

Given some of these breathtaking scenarios, you would think the Repubs would be concerned with getting our economic ship back on course?

Instead, we are listening to the same old tired wedge political elements.

The vandals are at the gate of the castle and they want us to talk about something other than solving our economic survival problem(s).

By GayGreyGeek

March 26, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

Jackie @ 3:16 - That’s because it’s just SOOOOOO much more important for my decade-and-a-half relationship to be denied any type of legal status than for any attention to be paid to, say, the meltdown in the financial markets or the meltdown in Antarctica. You see, if we keep The Masses distracted with wedge stuff, then The Masses won’t notice what’s really happening to and around ‘em.

By jm

March 26, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

I wonder what the outcry would have been if individuals had their social security funds invested in Bear Stearns. Much has been made that people could earn “more” if allowed to invest their own social security funds but very little has been said about earning “less” or “nothing”.

By Peter

March 26, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

Jackie hit it on the head……but “Vandals” is really too kind a word to use for this administration, and the junk that the Republicans spew.

Yes folks let’s see what happens in Iraq over the next few weeks…….

I believe a Civil War about to break that country apart, that is my guess.

Why would anyone believe after 1000 plus years of battle between the 3 factions there, freeing them from Saddam, would actually stop that battle?

By George Washington

March 26, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Jackie, remember one thing above all else: It Can Always Get Worse.

By GayGreyGeek

March 26, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

jm @ 3:47 - We’re not supposed to think along those lines and jump and be scared at the thought. We’re only supposed to jump and be scared when the Paleocons jump out at you and go “Boogah! Boogah! Gay Marriage! Boogah! Boogah!”.

By Lily Toad

March 26, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

GGG, well, you know we’re more of a threat to the nation than the terrorists.

By Carbon Footprint

March 26, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Richard Widmark, who is related to Obama, died at 93 today.

Obama is related to so many people. Brad Pitt. Cheney. About the only person Obama’s not connected to in some way now is his pastor, eh?

Chelsea Clinton fielded Q’s at a college she visited. When asked about Lewinski, she bristled “none of your business”. When asked about the sniper fire her mother lied about, she bristled another bromide about supporting her mother’s comments. I got a question 4 Chelsea: are U related to Obama 2?

By Lily Toad

March 26, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

GGG, well, you know we’re more of a threat to the nation than the terrorists.

By Jackie

March 26, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

According to information published by the financial experts, things WILL GET MUCH WORSE! Some are even calling for a DEPRESSION.

The only answer the Repubs have is McCain standing in front of us a spewing out this nonsense about the terrorist are after us and he is the only one with foreign policy experience to protect us from them.

My question to the Repubs, who in the devil will protect US FROM YOU????

If there is anything else that is presented as a remedy to our problems, I hope the Repubs will not present us with the need for another tax cut.

By Carbon Footprint

March 26, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Richard Widmark, who is a distant cousin of Obama, died today at 93. Doctors say he’ll be fine.

Obama is related to so many people. Brad Pitt, Cheney, you know about the only person Obama is not connected to in some way anymore is his pastor, eh?

By AmVet

March 26, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

GOP Bloodbath Part Deux coming to an election near you this November!

And this time you wont have Don Rumsfeld to kick around any more.

{{{{Among all Americans, 24% approve of the way Bush is handling his job as president and 75% disapprove. When it comes to Bush’s handling of the economy, 18% approve and 80% disapprove.

Among Americans registered to vote, 26% approve of the way Bush is handling his job as president and 73% disapprove. When it comes to the way Bush is handling the economy, 19% of registered voters approve of the way Bush is handling the economy and 78% disapprove.}}}}

By Jackie

March 26, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

Breaking news indicates a piece of the Antarctica ice shelf the size of Connecticut broke off.

Wonder if the Repubs are going to say global warming is not a part of the problem?

By GayGreyGeek

March 26, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

Lily - Of course we’re more dangerous than any member of Al Qaeda. If every gay and lesbian person went on strike, think of how ugly the hair, nails, and makeup (da guys on strike) of all the Paleocons’ wimmin, and how overrun with weeds the lawns (da gals on strike) of the Paleocons, would be…

By Devastator

March 26, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

Could Clinton Drop Out on May 7? Andrew Romano

First came Super Tuesday, with 24 contests and nearly 1,700 delegates up for grabs. Then it was the Texas two-step and primaries in Ohio, Vermont and Rhode Island on March 4. Now, according to Chris Bowers of Open Left, the latest, greatest Decision Day 2008 ® is May 6, when the good voters of North Carolina and Indiana cast their ballots for either the Hopemonger from Illinois or the Iron Lady from New York.

“If Obama sweeps Indiana and North Carolina,” writes Bowers. “The campaign is over.”

It’s an interesting prediction. For starters, there’s absolutely no chance that the curtain will fall earlier. Clinton currently boasts an average lead of 16 points in Pennsylvania, so despite the fervent finger-crossing of Obamaniacs nationwide, she ain’t goin’ nowhere before May. That said, the Indiana/North Carolina pairing not only represents a bigger delegate prize (187) than Pennsylvania (158), but it’s also expected to be closer contest—meaning that the conflict-obsessed media will put more stock in the results. (“Something unusual appears to be developing in the Democratic presidential race in [Indiana],” wrote the Washington Post earlier this week. “A fair fight.” Case in point.) Which is why an Obama twofer would signal Clinton’s demise, according to Bowers. “May 6th is the first date when Obama can reach 1,627 pledged delegates, or 50% + 1 of pledged delegates,” he says. “Right now, he needs 173.5 pledged delegates to reach 1,627, or 49.7% of the 349 to be determined between April 22 and May 6.” In Bowers’ view, if Obama can win half of the delegates at stake in Pennsylvania, Indiana and North Carolina, he will simultaneously capture the majority of pledged delegates—an important symbolic victory—and erase Clinton’s Pennsylvania gains, forcing the New York senator to contemplate a “final option” that involves “winning the support of more than 70% of the remaining superdelegates.” That, he says, “would be game, set, match.”

By Devastator

March 26, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

Hillary Clinton is Tonya Harding!!!

The Tonya Harding Option by ILPundit Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:09:16 PM PDT Not always a big fan of Jake Tapper, but he scores an interview with an unnamed DNC member who brands the Clinton campaign strategy as well as any I’ve seen

The delegate math is difficult for Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, the official said. But it’s not a question of CAN she achieve it. Of course she can, the official said.

The question is — what will Clinton have to do in order to achieve it?

What will she have to do to Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, in order to eke out her improbable victory?

She will have to “break his back,” the official said. She will have to destroy Obama, make Obama completely unacceptable.

“Her securing the nomination is certainly possible - but it will require exercising the ’Tonya Harding option.’” the official said. “Is that really what we Democrats want?” The Tonya Harding Option — the first time I’ve heard it put that way.

It implies that Clinton is so set on ensuring that Obama doesn’t get the nomination, not only is she willing to take extra-ruthless steps, but in the end neither she nor Obama win the gold.

The Tonya Harding Option indeed…we all should start using that phrase now.

By GayGreyGeek

March 26, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

Um, Apocalypse/Unity/Devastator, check out my post of 9:57 AM this morning. And the chat I had with Glenn on “The Tonya Harding Option”. And getaclue’s desperate attempt to distract from the real issue over to whatever Hillary Huckabee talking point was to be parrotted today.

By George Washington

March 26, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

The banks have undisclosed losses of 600 billion dollars…The fed had only 750 billion in gov bonds, of which they have used at least 300 billion on Bear…FDIC has only 50 billion….Either the banks are toast, or the dollar is toast….

By Devastator

March 26, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

GayGreek,

Good points.

It is futile for getastupid to continue to hold on to hope.

Obama in ‘08!

By George Washington

March 26, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

Obama will inherit a mess from the chimp: we will most likely have nuked several sites in Iran, the dollar will be toast, unemployment will be 15% and growing daily, oil will cost over 300 bucks per barrel, imports will have virtually disappeared, there will be rioting in the streets of major cities, the entire current and former Bush administration will have arrest warrants outstanding in every country on eart, inflation will be running at 25% and growing daily, and half the banks will have closed. Oh yeah, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will have merged with the war against Iran, and the DRAFT will be back…..

By Craig

March 26, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this

Thanks gaygeek for yours @ 4:44 - cracked me up.

By Jackie

March 26, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

The current accountable cost of the Iraqi war could fix the Social Security problem for the next 75 years.

By ulrknzwh

November 11, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

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