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DEL.ICIO.USHillary or Obama: WWJD?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
With the GOP race all but over, temporarily idle right-wingers can amuse ourselves with the conundrum facing the Democrats.The Rev. Bill Clinton, preaching Sunday at black churches in the District of Columbia and Maryland, said the Lord has given us a mighty burden this primary season.
“All my life I have wanted to vote for a woman for president,” said the Rev. Mr. Clinton, ordained in the Gospel of Liberalism, to the 800 members of the Temple of Praise church in Washington. And, he emoted, “All my life I have wanted to vote for an African-American for president. … I wonder why God gave us this dilemma.”
One thinks that Minister Clinton might not seen it as a dilemma “God gave us” had the African-American been Michael S. Steele, the former lieutenant governor of Maryland, or the woman been Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice. But far be it from me to inject myself between the spiritual man in the pulpit and his wife’s troubles in appealing to a very large constituency in the Democratic Party.
Minister Clinton said he understood the desire of blacks to elect one of their own — within the confines of the Democratic Party, of course — as president. But his wife is “the best qualified person to be president I’ve had the opportunity to vote for,” and he urged them to consider her experience, her support for full voting representation in Congress and policy initiatives on health care, housing and education. Pray about it, he urged them.
The Man in the Pulpit fervently hopes that God leads them out of their terrible dilemma by Tuesday, when Hillary faces off against Barack Obama in primaries in Virginia, Maryland and the District of Columbia. Right now, Clinton and Obama are tied. Obama has 1,143 delegates to 1,137 for Clinton. Obama won primaries over the weekend in Louisiana, Washington, Nebraska and the Virgin Islands and in the Maine caucuses. Obama is expected to win Tuesday’s primaries as well.
Suddenly, Hillary badly needs the 366 convention delegates the national party withdrew from Michigan and Florida, states Hillary can legitimately claim she won.
Sit back. Be entertained. Watch the ministers of political gospel at work. No admission charged. There’s more suspense here than on high school football recruiting day in Georgia.
Comments
By Aquagirl
February 11, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this
Somehow I doubt the Republicans are amused at watching the Democrats turn out, far outnumbering self-proclaimed Republicans in the primaries. They could use some distractions from the current stab at the heart of McCain, as those “values voters” stick with Huckabee.
I suppose Bill Clinton could have told the truth, and pointed out the African-American block voting Obama is racist, but that would have been way too much truth for his audience. And the media as well, any aspersion on the crowning of Obama would be unacceptable.
Any speculation as to what Bill would do if Condi Rice was running is just that…pure speculation. It’s not coincidence that the Democrats are the ones to field genuine candidates who aren’t white guys.
By Abomi Nation
February 11, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this
Georgia right-wingers can stay right here for amusement!
Glenn Richardson is providing plenty of entertainment!
Pass the popcorn.
By RealRep
February 11, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this
All anyone needs to know about John McCain can be seen in George W. Bush’s endorsement of the Senator.
The GOP can not afford another four years of inflated spending and Amnesty for illegal aliens – four more years of failure.
America knows it.
A vote for McCain is a vote for Hillary.
WWJD?
Huckabee ‘08
By Joe Bland
February 11, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this
He is pastor of the Hypocritical Church of the Soiled Loin.
She should pull a Romney, but neither she, nor the good reverend have any class.
By Mid-South Philosopher
February 11, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this
Good morning, Jim,
Whether it is the Rev. Mr. Clinton or the Right Rev. Mr. Huckabee, I just am not comfortable with politicians in the pulpit. I am even less comfortable with Churches that invite these folks…be their congregations, black, white, latino, or multi-racial/multi-ethnic.
I was raised in one of the most Conservative religious environments in the South…the Separate Baptist. Preachers in that sect preached a lot about social and political issues, but they would have never endorsed a candidate from the pulpit. They would have stressed individual deportment and exhibition of values on the part of those seeking office, but to name someone as “their” candidate would have been about as likely as allowing the neighborhood distiller to address the congregation on the dangers of drinking and driving!
The world has changed. Politics and religion have aped-up together in the past two decades, and now we have a jack-legged politician from Iowa…Senator Grassley…who is out to see if mega-church leaders are using their monies as their donars intended for it to be used.
The religious world may get more than they bargained for by bedding down with politicians!
By OneForTheRoad
February 11, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
Now that’s more like it, Jim. Do I sense a little strut in your stuff this morning. I don’t know why but I started getting flashbacks of the parodies of “Thanks for the Memories”. As for your question, “What would Jeb do?”, that may be a very important question for Floridians to consider. An equally important question may alse be “What would Ann Coulter do?” if it really does come down to McCain versus Clinton.
By jbmlaw
February 11, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this
What’s with the AJC pushing Andre Woodson? If the Falcons take a QB in the first round they are crazy. Jake Long or bust. If Woodson, or better yet, Erik Ainge are available in the second round, fine.
By Scholar
February 11, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this
“Minister Clinton said he understood the desire of blacks to elect one of their own — within the confines of the Democratic Party, of course… “
As opposed to electing a black from the Republican Party? Oh, wait a minute…
By Redneck Convert
February 11, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
Well, I guess the Lord decided who was going to be the godly nominee. I’ll never figure out why he didn’t pick the Rev. Huckabee, but His Will be done. Leastwise, that’s what the Rev. Throckmorton said down at the Church of Holiness yesterday. Course, I don’t know weather the Rev. Throckmorton sees the Light the way the Rev. Jim Bob Buice done before he got caught nekkid with that boy and put on the state list.
Anyway, it don’t matter weather the Clinton woman or this Osama is the choice of the librul Democrats. By the time we get done swiftboating them, they will look like Sodom and Gonorrhea in the flesh. I already seen one email making the rounds talking about how this Osama is a towel-head that won’t salute the flag or say the pledge and belongs to this secret bunch that wants to give all the power to Africa. Another one says this Hillary woman likes women and not men and wants to take all our choices away from us and would make Sister Dusty see a doctor that would snicker at her for how fat she is.
By the time November comes around the godly Republicans will make even this librul McCain look like John the Baptist fighting against the Devil. It won’t matter weather its the truth. Right now, we are in a fight to keep the White House, and to heck with the truth. We got to keep the power to name all the judges and fight the stem cells and the towel-heads and such.
I guess jbmlaw is on vacation now and Wootens blog will be mighty short and will probly make sense too. Between him and Sister Dusty and this Glenn they kept the thing boiling. Have a good day everybody.
By Glenn
February 11, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
Good morning. Kinda know what you mean, Mid-South. I grew up in a church where the national ensign was displayed in the narthex. Then we moved, and I was aghast to see it displayed at the altar with the ecclesiastical flag. I insisted that I be baptised again in my new church, and they of course were happy to oblige. My mistake.
The following year the pastor interrupted his regularly scheduled appointment with the salvific Gospel to call for a congregational vote on whether to send church moneys in legal defense of Dr. Angela Davis, the Communist who’d been denied tenure for her beliefs.
I walked out, and never returned. “My Parents Saw the Promised Land and All I Got Was this Cheap B-Cert!”
By Amy
February 11, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this
WWJD? Obviously not what the “conservative base” would do regarding these poor immigrants. Anyone advocating the draconian and inhumane measures targeted at these people cannot in any way form or fashion call themselves “christian”. Jesus would probably want to deport anyone of that ilk to where they belong. Hell.
By Sistah Hil
February 11, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
It was African Americans who designated my husband America’s first black president. So, therefore, I ,too am African American. And I’m in this race to stay, because I ain’t in no ways tired.
By Aquagirl
February 11, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this
Obviously not what the “conservative base” would do regarding these poor immigrants.
Conservatives would have shot Jesus off his donkey when he entered Jerusalem. And rounded up all those palm-wavers too, they were a bunch of non-residents clearly making trouble.
By George Wallace
February 11, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
“non-residents clearly making trouble.”
Aquagirl, in my day we called those folks outside agitators.
By getalife
February 11, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
God voted for Clinton when a tornado hit Clinton, Arkansas.
I watch gomer preach at a wingnut gathering and he spewed we do not need laws if we followed the 10 Commandnents. I guess he is anti war and anti death penalty with thou shall not kill.
We have laws but do not enforce them. Hell, w admitted torture and spying on Americans without a warrant but our new AG will not prosecute.
Fine, open up the prisons, stop the war on drugs and open up the borders and give amnesty to all immigrants then.
By Tireseus
February 11, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
Upon the announcement of your bi-racial marriage, Sistah Hil, blessings.
Aquagirl, conservatives would have framed and railroaded him, and have had other conservatives torture him to death publicly. Progressives would have taught him to fight and made him commander of a doomed insurgency. Those closest to him would have betrayed him, again and again.
It’s certainly true, Amy, that the story goes that he had a soft spot for outsiders, and they for him. Never met anyone who called herself a “christian”, though. Is that some sort of knee-jerk teen slang spelling? amy? amy?
By JohnTheBaptist
February 11, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this
I am praying for the souls of all these faux christians that are advocating such unchristian and inhumane measures against these poor immigrants. Sitting in church for a few hours a week and then spending the next 6 1/2 days lieing, cheating, stealing, and abusing other members of the human race is not christian. Christian is as christian does. The immigration issue is a human rights issue. These people have God given rights that transcends all other considerations. True christians know this. “Faux christians” see it as “just business”. Kicking our fellow human beings around like some political football has given the evil among us a forum by which to practice their hateful and unchristian motivations. WWJD? That is obvious. Jesus would deport those doing satan’s work to the place that they belong. Hell. Too many of you “christians” are actually doing satan’s work with your anti-human attitudes toward other human beings. Jesus gave his life, spilled his blood, for all of God’s children. Not just you nativist xenophobic bigots that call yourselves christian. Jesus knows you are not christians.
By Craig
February 11, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this
Good column Jim, but I think the much more entertaining spectacle is the total rejection of your candidate, the good Senator McAncient, by the base of your party.
Good times….
By Political Foreskin
February 11, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
Wooten considers himself a religious man. He cleaved onto the evangelical right before it was cool to talk to God like W does. Now he mocks any references to God made during any religious service inside any church? Even a casual glance at the short list of Eternal Consequences for Hypocracy tells us that Wooten will burn in hell forever for that last blog.
The entire right wing of our country is becoming unhinged before our very eyes. They’re turning inside out, regurgitating the non-denominational bile Rushannity mouth-fed them in their soaring eagle-feathered neocon nests. (file footage of Ashcroft singing “let the eagle soar” to videos of shock and awe in baghdad march 03 here)
Change long overdue is revolution. Revolution creates martyrs. Martyrs nourish religions, (and lions)…
Two German theologists are talking. One says that he’s going to invent a new name for God. The other says, “no way”. The one replies, “Yahweh”.
the reason we can trust Obama is because he danced on tv with Ellen. Obama cant mambo. But Osama can samba. Here comes the tricky part….icantfinishthissketch
Just vote for Obama.
By Robert
February 11, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this
Jim is just jumping on the bandwagon now. The “base” as you say, has changed. The republican “base” is now moderate. The right wing has been refuted and irraticated as a force in the party. McCain will owe them nothing. Good bye to bad rubbish I say. THe Republican party is now the party of McCain and Swartsanegger.
By Tireseus
February 11, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
Brother John,
Have you lost your head? There isn’t a Christian alive. Hasn’t been for two millennia. You shoulda seen it though, Jack. They had a great thing going there for a few years!
Seems like the Nazarene Orange (take that, Romists!) would have taught criminal interlopers and their smugglers to submit to lawful civil authority as he did. Especially to civil authority established to defend rather than deny “God-given rights”.
But then, one suspects that Caspar the Ethiopian had no legal business being in Bethlehem, either.
By Ron
February 11, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
Good Morning Jim,Having a good time watching the Democrats elect the President?Great process,isn’t it?Two candidates with not a nickel’s worth of difference in their platforms.One question;When do we get to tax these campaign places called churches?
By right wing nutjob
February 11, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
Aquagirl, amy and every other marxist liberal on this blog have it wrong. You guys have probably never set foot in church or read the Bible for that matter. The poor? Jesus said that the poor would be with us always. Illegal immigration isn’t in the same category as homelessness. People like you like to find things wrong with christians and then bash them. I would bet that NONE of you have done a damn thing to help poor people. Liberals want other people to give their money to poor people so that liberals can feel good about themselves. Christians give their own money away. Yes, Jesus knows real christians from non christians by the fact that they are saved or not. The Clintons are a bunch of lying power hungry monsters. Bill is a rapist, a liar and was impeached. I love it when people say that republicans are racists yet it was RACIST DEMOCRATS who ran the south during the civil rights movement.
By Glenn
February 11, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
Good bookending again, though, as you couldn’t start it either.
By @@
February 11, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
Too funny Jim!
So now it’s okey dokey for a dem to seek divine intervention when things appear desperate. Gives a whole new meaning to Super Delegate don’t it?
Backroom negotiations are at hand in the dem’s race.
They’re on the inside…
They’re not the people…
Open the doors and
speak to your sheeple.
Embrace your nominee?????
You’re right…this is entertaining.
By Dusty
February 11, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Well, Jim Wooten. glad you mentioned the shenanigans of Bill Clinton. He always could talk out both sides of his mouth when necessary. I see he is still doing it, this time as “minister”.
Now, isn’t there an IRS ruling that churches do not pay taxes because religion should not be taxed? I guess that’s the reason Sen. Grassley is checking on wealthy Atlanta pastors. Mid South mentioned this. It does seem a bit strange that a member of Congress would be investigating churches that provide mansions and limousines. IRS should be checking. Where is jbmlaw when you have a legal question? Preaching politics IS religion? I guess it depends on the meaning of IS. (Thank you, Bill Clinton.)
RedNeck Convert(aka as Fatso), quit blubbering about blubber. We know you’ve got a “beer belly” overhang that no belt can conquer. Formaldehyde still making you bald?
By right wing nutjob
February 11, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
Amy, I must have missed that part of the new testament where Jesus wanted people to go to hell. Please, in all of your knowledge of the Bible, tell me where Jesus wanted people to go to hell. As for Ron, tax churches? You idiot dems want to tax everything to death. Why don’t you go to North Korea where you belong.
By JohnTheBaptist
February 11, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
Saying that you are saved does not excuse your sins.
By Glenn
February 11, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
Ron, Ron. Sometimes I wonder about you. Not a nickel’s worth of difference in their platforms? Come on!
This election Democrats are fortunate to have clear choices to make between their two leading candidates, choices that will affect this nation for a generation.
Clintons is for more _, and greater , and increased _.
Obama, on the other hand, is for more hope and greater increases in change.
Their platforms really couldn’t be more specific in this regard.
By William
February 11, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
There will be a woman president!!! Even if the poor young black man wins by votes. The superdelegates will never elect a black man. You better recognize this!! I am white and I voted for Obama. However I would vote for a baby raper than a clinton.
By JK
February 11, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
Does anyone remember Mr. Wooten’s column on his GOOD FRIEND RALPH REED when he was discovered to be a crook, aiding and abetting the subversion of democracy? Nah. Only Christian Democrats should be mocked. Thieving Republicans are still good Christians, right Mr. Wooten?
By JohnTheBaptist
February 11, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
rightwing nutjob, Amy and I will go to North Korea when you go to hell, where you belong. Another heathen doing satan’s work, huh nutjob?
By NICK
February 11, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
Both Clinton and Obama SUCK.
Neither has ANY experience running ANYTHING.
Anyone who votes for either is a lazy, stupid, free-loading piece of sh!t.
By Time for an Overhaul
February 11, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
The county is crying out for a change in the political landscape. We are so bent on “change” that we are not seeing the fact that most of the candidates have not told us anything about WHO they really are and WHAT they stand for, WHAT IS THEIR PLAN!
All we hear is Bush-bashing, Republican bashing, Democrat bashing or bashing each other - just what is the plan to improve our current situation?
Obama asks us to believe, but believe in what…..just what does he stand for besides “change.” Where does he stand on the issues, what’s his plan, does he have one? What will he do to stimulate the economy, protect us from terrorists, stop the billions of dollars in entitlement spending on illegals?
Clinton is frightening to say the list and her position on socialized healthcare should be enough to give everyone pause. Just ask our neighbors in Canada how well that works. Why do you think those that can afford to come to the US for operations, do? You think PMO’s and PPO’s are bad, just wait till the government regulates your healthcare….
McCain is a liberal in a conversative sheep’s clothing. Like many folks, I don’t trust him. He’s more of the same old thing. Not to mention he has a short fuse, not the one I want in charge of the red phone.
Huckabee doesn’t stand a chance and he’s just hedging his bet for the vice-presidential bid from McCain. Until he gets it, he’s staying in the race.
Not much of a choice really…..but at least we have one.
By Sam
February 11, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
These right wingers sure do get nasty when someone hits them where it hurts don’t they. It is going to be so much fun watching them suffer for the next 8 years. They’ve earned every minute of it.
By Walter Hill
February 11, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
And the only experience GW had was running things into the ground NICK. And he stayed true to form when he ran this country into the ground too.
By Will
February 11, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
Mr.Wooten:
President Bush, with congress controlled by republicans for most of his terms, has asked for and received more money for military spending than the rest of the world combined, more for military spending than a country such as Australia spends for everything. With all this military funding, our brave patriots in harm’s way were left with inadequate equipment and many of those same brave patriots were left to rot in the squalor of military hospitals, all under the watch of the republican majority that wears its patriotism on its collar.
I am positive that President McCain will properly outfit our patriots and treat them with the respect and health care they have earned. He understands, like President Eisenhower, that the Defense Department can be just another bloated government function and, if given, the chance, will spend money until the cows come home.
If John McCain had been president in 2001, I am positive that a adequate number of troops would have been deployed to have truly accomplished the mission and that our only presence in Irag today would have been to advise and train rather than continue to do the job for Iraq.
Finally, in the one area where it might remotely make a difference as to which party controls the White House, I am positive that President McCain will send better judicial nominees to the Hill than either Senator Obama or Senator Clinton.
He may not pass the “purity” test required of the republican media entertainers but, so what? President Bush and President Reagan appeared to have passed that test. How’s that Roe v. Wade thingy worked out under these “pure” conservatives? How about ilegal immigration? Did thsoe “pure” republican presidents add to this problem or did they clean up the problem?
By Dusty
February 11, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
Glenn, you are correct. There are differences in Demo possibilities.
Obama is an anti-war advocate during wartime.
Hillary voted for the war and now flip slops.
I would never vote for anyone with character like either of these two.
By Political Foreskin
February 11, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
2 German Theologists were talking. One says, “I’m going to invent a new name for God”. The other says, “No way!” The one replies, “Yahweh”.
Osama/Obama link proved here: Osama can samba. Obama can mambo.
By Political Foreskin
February 11, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
2 German Theologists were talking. One says, “I’m going to invent a new name for God”. The other says, “No way!” The one replies, “Yahweh”.
Osama/Obama link proved here: Osama can samba. Obama can mambo.
By right wing nutjob
February 11, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
John the baptist, you want me to go to hell, huh? can’t because i’ve been saved and born again. I love it when people preach tolerance and love and then tell someone to go to hell. love it. As far as your comment about being saved doesn’t excuse your sins. When you are born again your past sins are washed away. yes, we still sin but we are forgiven and pray for forgiveness.
By Dusty
February 11, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
and PoFo, 10:59
That joke was a “bomba”.
By Tireseus
February 11, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
You really are whack, Jack. Been too long since you stepped up to the Plate, eh?
Of course being “saved” excuses your sins, and in the (North Korean) End that’s the important thing. Doesn’t mean that it excuses your crimes, or make you sanctified (though it does make a helluva lot of people sanctimonious).
As for Hell v. The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, well, ignoring for a moment that it is neither Korea, nor a republic, nor democratic, nor the People’s, still I’d pray that you would rather not live long there as a Communist swine whilst the rest of us are unwritten from the Book of Life.
Better dead than Red.
By right wing nutjob
February 11, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
Jesus never voted. This article is ridiculous. Bill Clinton will go down as one of the worst presidents in American history. Lied to the grand jury and raped women. If Osama Obama wins I can say, with confidence, that he will be a massive failure. He and Hillary want a socialist society. Punish hard work and praise laziness. People like the democrats have destroyed black america. Blacks have trusted liberals for so long and it has gotten them nowhere.
By Aquagirl
February 11, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
Aptly-named right wing nutjob @ 10:34, I love how right wing nutjobs grab Jesus’ mantle by assumption, and make hysterical pronunciations on other’s backgrounds. I have obviously read the Bible if I can refer to the origins of Palm Sunday.
I can also read the part of the Bible where Jesus said people would go to hell for their actions, and he’s gonna be the one who sends them there. So he must want some people there, by default. You may split hairs as you may, but Jesus can pretty much do as he pleases, according to Christianity. Y’know, according to all that omnipotence stuff.
I do like to find things wrong with “Christians” who want to impose a bizarre set of standards through the power of the State. They spend time pushing their legislation based on selective issues supposedly because it’s what God wants. I’d rather spend my time helping the poor and so forth in my personal life, not by public fiat. This would make me much more of a libertarian, not a marxist. Not that you’d make such distinctions.
I do support Democrats over Republicans in this election, because if you’re going to push Jesus-legislation, I’d rather see it of the “care for the sick and the poor” over “let’s see how we can hate and restrict others.”
Now please, resume your right-wing rant. I doubt I’ll respond to any of it again, I learned my lesson the other day. I tried to reason with a Creationist, that’s an hour or so of my life that I’ll never get back.
I may disagree with the Glenns or jbmlaws of the world, but they don’t come off as complete spewing, unresponsive, ill-disciplined trolls. You do.
Next!
By time for the great reality check
February 11, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
AguaGirl
The followers of Jesus didn’t come to Jerusalem lookin’ to make a bumb’s rush on the border & garner handouts, direct & indirect. Unlike our current day illegals, the followers of the Naz were spiritual immigrants seeking spirtual enlightenment not material gain. So much for your first argument.
AND, thank your stars for the white man, sistah. Your right to speak freely & your standard of living is most decidedly better here in Anglo-land than in any Afrikan nations. Your ignorance, while amusingly retarded, is legally tolerated here but would be crushed with great prejudice in Afrikka-land.
BTW, Liberia’s having a meltdown and are looking for a few good black women to take control of that sh!thole of a country. For all those disaffected African-Americans who wish to show the white man how it should be done, here’s your chance.
What, no takers - how normal.
By Amy in the ATL
February 11, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
JK, you’re right on. The hypocrisy of the Republicans is always astounding. The brandish religion like a weapon, and then are offended when the Democrats reach out to black churches. Hello?? What about the God’s Army y’all have been building? (If anyone wants to be scared out of their minds, watch Jesus Camp)
In other news, the GOP’s difficulty with (their own) marriages continues….in this case in the form of Glenn Richardson. Are there any elected GOP officials still married to their first wives?
By Lily Toad
February 11, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
Obama is an anti-war advocate during wartime.
What better time to be anti-war? Does it make sense to be anti-war in a time of peace?
By Political Foreskin
February 11, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
Well!
By Glenn
February 11, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
Ooh, Dusty. Good job! La Bomba!
I still want a President who can dance, though. The best ones all could dance. Washington was stiff, but then stiff was called for in those days. Jefferson was a bloomin’ Nureyev in silk breeches.
Jackson got down and funky, and so did Lincoln, who loved to dance.
TR had our aboriginal friends teach him new steps, and showed off his Funky Injun while traveling abroad. Ambassador Franklin did the same. They loved all things American, those men did.
Woodrow wouldn’t be caught dead dancing—-and probably was. (Yet another president who, like Carter, missed his calling.)
By Lily Toad
February 11, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
Obama is an anti-war advocate during wartime.
What better time to be anti-war? Does it make sense to be anti-war in a time of peace?
By Aquagirl
February 11, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
Does it make sense to be anti-war in a time of peace?
Sure, if your aim is to avoid wars, not get out of bad ones. Being pro-war in times of peace, as Bush was, makes pretty short peacetimes.
I must grudgingly admit laughing at Dusty’s 11:07 “bomba” comment. Pretty darn funny.
By BlackGirl
February 11, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
How disgusting that Prez. Clinton is feeling so much pressure that he must go to one of “our” churches and use God to persuade us to vote for his wife. First of all, I wouldn’t vote for Hilary if she were the only choice on the ballot! Secondly, don’t assume that because I’m black, that’s the only reason I’m voting for Obama. Personally, regardless of how he looks, I don’t consider him black. He has a pure white mama! He’s bi-racial.
Hilary can’t run her household, so certainly she can’t run this country. And Bill was a disgrace as a president. He did very little for “my people” yet he assumes we love him! Typically I vote republican, however I like Obama’s plan for getting us out of this war. I like his education agena. And McCain, while he appears to be the sure shot, I don’t think much of him. Hucabee is a much better option. His stance on fair tax alone gets my vote.
And by the way right wing nutjob, there are many of “us” that don’t trust liberals, however the media doesn’t want to talk to us. So when a group of “us” gets together, they represent the entire race.
By Yabba the Nut
February 11, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
God is American. In war He is on our side. We (so long as we are conservative and Republican) are His chosen people.
By right wing nutjob
February 11, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Aquagirl, call me names all day long. I could care less. I’m glad you read up on Palm Sunday. Good for you. I have no idea what that has to do with my comments. Anyway, yes, I’m all for helping the poor but I will not coddle the poor. Helping the poor is one thing. Keeping them poor is another. That’s what democrats have done. You ramble on and on about other things that I don’t want to get in to with you. Yes, people will go to hell but to say that Jesus WANTS people to go to hell is false. Jesus came to SAVE US FROM SIN AND HELL and not to send people there because he wants to. Liberals like you hear what you want and then bash others. Talk about tolerance. The reason democrats hate christians is because Christians see right through them. Christians should not have one party to vote for. Republicans happen to be the party that appeals to us. Democrats want gay marriage, which the bible speaks out against MANY times in old and new testament. Look at Sodom and Gomorrah.
By the way, what “bazaar” set of standards are you talking about?
Oh, and learn how to spell please.
By Glenn
February 11, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this
Hi Aquagirl,
Here’s the thing from my end. I happen to agree with every line posted at 11:10 by Goldfinger’s manservant Nutjob. At the same time, while I respect your slogging through the whole Jewish and Christian canons, it seems that quite a lot got lost in translation from the five ancient tongues.
Seriously, may I ask from which translation you draw your Christology and your Levitical understandings? Was it (or were they) an actual translation, or was it a paraphrase? I ask this because had it been, for example, Jefferson’s translation from the Greek, then I could understand some of your conclusions.
I’m not trying to be facetious or high-hat. Am just wondering where these increasingly prevalent understandings come from.
By William Carney
February 11, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
In my book, How Would Jesus Vote, I outline the positions that the Bible takes on the issues being debated in this campaign. Its pretty clear based on the Bible that Jesus would vote for neither due to their disagreement with him on Abortion and Homosexuality alone. hwjv.net
By william
February 11, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
By Aquagirl February 11, 2008 11:14 AM You do a good job of bashing Christians! WE are a Christian/Judea society. However, I encourage you to continue listening to the radicals of all religions but do not accept them as the norm. Like, in America, God gives us the choice. I believe man did not free me but that is was endowed by my creator. You may be an evolutionist but you can not prove that either. Evolution is a general concensus among those scientist who do not believe in God. Concensus is not fact nor proven. I do not profess to be Demotcratic nor Republican but I am conservative. I think liberals or communists. After all—where else could they go if not to the libera democratice party.
By Dusty
February 11, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
Lily Toad 11:21
Have you ever heard of Neville Chamberlain? He tried and thought he had negotiated peace with Hitler’s Germany? What he got was further invasion of Europe.
Obama was taking a chance with our country. I don’t want a president who will only “talk” when it comes to protecting the USA. You do recognize the threat of terrorism, don’t you?
Glenn,
Thank you. I like a president who can do the “two step”, at least. The Dems have two who couldn’t even “shuffle the shag”. They don’t “pace” with grace in the political parlor.
By TW
February 11, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
WWJD? Are you kidding me, Mr. Wooten? Your party tries (unscuccesfully - there’s a shocker) to turn The Bible into a bludgeoning instrument.
Who would Jesus invade?
Who would Jesus deport?
Where would Jesus shove the flagpole?
Oh that’s right – you guys point your fingers at women who have abortions. Funny how rightwing morality doesn’t cost anything.
Here’s a thought – maybe the rightwing has crashed and burned as a result of being unable to differentiate between doing God’s will – and playing God.
By right wing nutjob
February 11, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
William, very good. That pretty much sums it up. I happen to like Obama simply because he doesn’t hide who he is. I would never vote for him because he stands for things that I think are wrong. He is very intelligent and doesn’t play the race card.
As for Glenn, Manservant? Funny, when people don’t agree with your views they get called manservant. Should I call you child molester? Makes about as much sense as what you have written.
By time for a change
February 11, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
Glenn,
Yeah, you’re trying to be “high-hat” but then you’re pretty good at it so I’ll let you be.
By right wing nutjob
February 11, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
To all liberal marxist on this blog, IF the war is wrong and all we are doing in the world is wrong then what should we do if we are nuked? You guys protest the military and call them evil killers yet you sit in your coffee shops and do nothing for the poor. Tell me one good thing that liberalism has done? One.
By the way, Obamas hope is not going to win wars or keep the country safe. Nor is it going to do any good when he raise taxes through the roof. Good luck dems. Don’t come crying when your candidates turn in to another Jimmy Carter.
By Tireseus
February 11, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
Yabba the Nut,
First, you should know that you’re fooling no one. We know who you are, Mr. Laughton. I personally just hope that you insisted on contracting with Mr. Lucas for points.
Second, when the first Republican President was asked how he could be sure that God was on his side, he replied that he wasn’t at all sure, but could only “Pray that I am on His side.”
Excepting Jews and Nonconformists, American colonists prayed this portion of their Litany:
We beseech thee to hear us, good Lord. That it may please thee to keep and strengthen in the true worship of thee, in righteousness and holiness of life, thy Servant, our most gracious King and Governor;
We beseech thee to hear us, good Lord. That it may please thee to rule his heart in thy faith, fear, and love, and that he may evermore have affiance in thee, end ever seek thy honor and glory;
We beseech thee to hear us, good Lord. That it may please thee to be his defender and keeper, giving him the victory over all his enemies.
As it happened, it pleased the Lord to disestablish the Church of England on these shores. Still, numerous versions of this litany have continued to be recited to this day in most houses of worship, in most of the faith traditions represented in the USA (and also in Canada). Note the subordination of the Executive, the bended knee to the leader on bended knee.
By uvon
February 11, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this
Hilary and Obama should run on the same ticket and give the Republicians something to worry about and stop this mud slinging between the two of them. The Country was in a surplus when Bill left office,and now we we are in the biggest financial messes in history our dollar is not worth the paper it is printed on.
By uvon
February 11, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this
Hilary and Obama should run on the same ticket and give the Republicians something to worry about and stop this mud slinging between the two of them. The Country was in a surplus when Bill left office,and now we we are in the biggest financial messes in history our dollar is not worth the paper it is printed on.
By Yabba the Nut
February 11, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
First, I didn’t read all that boring crap you wrote.
Second, I don’t know who Mr. Laughton is, but I ripped the concept of the words off from the Eagles.
Third, bite moi.
By Political Foreskin
February 11, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
I wrote a book: “Who would Jesus condemn to hell on judgement day?”
Let me quote from the list on page 37: “Jim Wooten, RW (the oravaginal), Dusty, @@, duhng, and every other total fascist jackass (without a country) blogging here for the past two years.
Superdelegates? SuperApostles! There were 12 apostles, but only three superapostles. No, this bit is too good, I’ll try it tonight at the starbar in little five points. See you all there.
Anyone notice Karl Rove on television last week holding that chart and explaining how Huckabee is mathematically eliminated from winning the nomination? With punditry like that who needs superdelegates?
Democrats are superdelegates are Democrats.
Republicans have delegates not bound by primary results, but only democrats are referred to as superdelegates, okay?
The excessively-influential, free-floating GOP delegates are called Saudis.
By Nutjob is a LIAR
February 11, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
You guys protest the military and call them evil killers yet you sit in your coffee shops and do nothing for the poor.
YOU ARE A G-DD-MNED LIAR. Isn’t that a sin? “Nutjob” is a good handle for you, because it’s clear that you only have one, and that’s one more than you’ll have if you say that to my face. Liar.
By Glenn
February 11, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this
Jim I think I’ve got to take issue with your introductory phrase. The real campaign action today is in North Carolina, where John Edwards is playing both ends against the middle to drive up the price for his Escort services; and in the GOP race, where Mr. Huckabee is overachieving the DNC objective, of emplacing McCain as dream foil, and proceeding directly to the Democratic business of hobbling him going into the General.
And then there’s the delicious fact that “values voters” continue to mistake that fool for a Fool for Christ.
So, far from parking these elements of the race to focus on Bill’s sideshow of yesterday, it would be great to stick with the campaign proper.
Alternatively, you could always do some poking around regarding the provenance of Hillary’s $5 million check of last week. That’s one that Luckovich and Tucker and their friends at Newsweek and Time and CNN would not dare touch unless a damage control package came down from the oppo shop, in which case the last four would be only too delighted to spin it.
By Aquagirl
February 11, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
Glenn, my current flavor is the NRSV, most of my churchgoing life early on was studying the King James Bible. If you were a bit more specific on your disagreement, I could probably be more specific too. In general, I hold that Christianity should adhere very closely to what Jesus said and did on this earth. There are some differences in wording and specific passages included or excluded, but the Gospels aren’t in as much disagreement as the rest of the Bible. Jesus, unlike Obama, was pretty clear on his platform.
I understand the problems with translations, I used to work as a translator myself. It’s inevitable that meanings are changed. But I still think the overall message in the Gospels is pretty coherent and unified, even through current translations. The rest of the Bible, including nutjob’s misinterpreted Sodom and Gomorrah story, is all over the map. Not only by translations, but by just being in disagreement with itself.
Ironically, I agree with parts of nutjob’s 11:10 post, most specifically that Jesus didn’t vote—or at least he showed no political leanings. However, at 11:36 he just can’t resist his anger, and starts pronouncing Christians as Republicans, liberals as hating them, and so forth. This attitude, more than any other, is what has driven me away from Republicans. It’s the idea that one’s political opponents aren’t just bad, or wrong, it’s that they’re evil. And that since only Republicans are Christians, by default your opponents are spiritually deficit and heathen.
I may look upon some GOP and Democratic moves as stupid, counterproductive, etc, but not as outright attempts to enthrone Satan. There is no arguing with a fanatic, and the GOP has embraced Christian Fanaticism to its fullest degree.
By Political Foreskin
February 11, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
Is there one person in America who can enunciate the mission of US troops in Iraq?
By songbird
February 11, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
to right wing nutjob - all those racist democrats that used to run the south switched to the republican party years ago.
By catlady
February 11, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
The mission in Iraq is to make more money for Halliburton, et al.
By GaVoter
February 11, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
Ron Paul
Now there’s a class act. The conservative chant needs to be WWRPD?
By catlady
February 11, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
Being pro-war in times of peace, as Bush was, makes pretty short peacetimes.
Big splash-out for you, aqua girl!
Bizzare, not bazzar.
Any Republicans still married to their first wives? Yeah, the gay ones.
By Bob
February 11, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
How can Hillary legitimately claim Michigan as a victory when Obama wasn’t even on the ballot?
By Political Foreskin
February 11, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
Superdelegates are always democrats.
They are not bound by primary results.
GOP has similar uber-delegates but only democrats are referred to as superdelegates.
The GOP version of over-influential delegates are called Saudis.
That’s right, I’m saying that Bush/Cheney sold us to the Saudis. We’re trapped in Iraq, you know. We couldn’t leave if we elected Steve Colbert as president.
Our country is in deep deep trouble. The worst case scenario for war has happened: We’ve been voted the country most likely to trip World War Three. You cant just hold a match in a room filled with gas fumes and not expect the whole house to explode. it’s simply a matter of time. Bush did this on purpose, because he is a prophesy christian, that is, he wants to fulfill prophesy in the bible by overt acts of war, just like it sez in revelation, friend. That’s how fook’d up he is.
Believe it. Know it. Live it, and vote it out. (like that’s gonna save us)
Just enjoy these last few days of civilization as we know it.
By right wing nutjob
February 11, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
Songbird, What racist dems became repubs? George Wallace? Bull Conor? Last time I checked they had civil rights marches hosed down in Montgomery. Get a life.
To all the libs complaining about christians. Conservatism wins over liberalism. Liberal ideas have caused welfare, crime and race baiting. You guys and gals are angry because we’ve voted with the GOP. Christians are sick and tired of the dems and media forcing liberal garbage down our throats. It’s sort of sick that you think that sharia law is the answer. Or communism for that matter.
By Political Foreskin
February 11, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Only Democratic Delegates not bound by primary results are called Superdelegates. The GOP also has over-influential delegates not bound by primary results or voter’s wishes, but they’re called Saudis.
By Aquagirl
February 11, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Bizzare, not bazzar
So much for my idea of cutting back on the caffeine. I’m going out for coffee.
By Jauy
February 11, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
What would Jesus do?
I don’t know.
But when I read the words in red, I’m pretty sure Jesus would have been for a peaceful resolution to the problem in Iraq. But he might have been okay with putting troops on the ground for the Darfur crisis.
And when I read the words in red, I think Jesus cares - a lot - about social justice. Immigrants are people loved by the Christian God just as much as the tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens are loved by the Christian God. Meanwhile, our (yet-again) failed attempt at trickle down economics provided (unsurprisingly) an increase in the number of Americans living in poverty, an out-of-control goverment debt (whereby we can all expect much higher taxes in the future just to pay for interest, let alone the wars and subsidies to energy industry that the Republicans - but not necessarily conservatives - want us to pay for), and a shaky economy that has only been held together for the past several years because of high levels of consumer spending (which really means ‘credit card debt’). (Hint for Republicans: investment tax credits work much better for economic growth than cutting personal taxes. Its not that trickle-down is a 100% economic failure, just the messed-up version of trickle-down pushed by Reagan and the Bushies. Unless of course your objective isn’t really economic growth but rather increasing the wealth of the wealthy.)
For that matter, I can’t find much about capitalism in the words in red. In fact, it seems the “Acts, Chapter 2 Church” was more like a commune/ utopian community. Mixing the teachings of Jesus with the conservative agenda has always been a terrifying mis-match that has not served the interests of either group.
Jesus would also care about his Father’s creation, and the subsidies that are being pumped into the energy and oil industries to enhance their profits while ignoring pollution and the full cost of providing those products to customers (which should include the cost of cleaning up after themselves).
What would Jesus do?
I don’t know. But I’m pretty sure that Jesus has January 21, 2009 circled on his calendar as the of an embarassing chapter of “politics in the name of Jesus.”
By JesusHChrist
February 11, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
As I foresaw, Hillarity the Clown plans to cheat Obama out of the nomination via the Michigan and Florida non votes. All Obama supporters should then immediately leave the Democratic party and form a third party for Obama, which has been projected as the winner come November. Ye, I say onto thee, leave the Democratic party for the Obama Party. Amen
By Nutjob is a LIAR
February 11, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Hey… Pssst… C’mere. Hold still. This won’t hurt a bit.
By JesusHChrist
February 11, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
Bill Clinton almost won a Grammy last night, for the spoken word. Clinton lost out to Barak Obama who won the Grammy on his reading from his book “The Audacity of Hope.” Bill Clinton read from his book “My Pet Zipper.”
By sparta_bubba
February 11, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
Folks, neither Michael Steele or Condoleeza Rice would receive the votes or adulation that Barack and Hillary have received. Most blacks know they are wild eyed lackeys of George W. Bush and know their interests would not be served with them in decision making roles. They remember Clarence Thomas and Ward Connerly.
Also contrary to what right wingers think, black folks think for themselves and vote based on their well being. Most right wingers think that when blacks don’t vote as the GOP wants them to, it becomes a “block vote.” It’s not, its a “black vote” voting for their best interests.
By JesusHChrist
February 11, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
That was one thing that really p** the Germans off in WWI - Americans were so sure God was on their side….
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
February 11, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Nice article Jim,
Good to see you holding the dems to such a high standard after securing the GOP’s status as infallable.
I’ve always been interested in how the “wwjd” crowd feels about their boy gw invading a soverign country with no motivation other than fear, then proceeding to kill tens of thousands of people and ruin the lives of hundreds of thousands of others….and never feel one ounce of regret about it.
Seems to me that the “turn the other cheek” argument is reserved for arguments with folks who disagree with you.
Oops…I’m sorry. I forgot that y’all would just rather kill all the people who you fear.
By HUCABEE '08
February 11, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
I do not remeber who said that were going to hell for not liking immagrants, but this is for you: First off, people are not trying to get rid of mexicans and so forth. We are trying to make things legal and fair. Immigrrants are more than welcomed in our society, if they do it legal!!!!! THE WAY you make it soundd lady, is that if the are here than we should love them and honor them. So your telling me that if I rob you at gunpoint, than as a “CHRISTIAN” you would just say hey, you are welcome to come back!!! I do not think so! You have the wrong idea of a chrstian lady.
LIKE THE BIBLE SAYS: ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED!!!!!!! THE END
REMEMBER TO VOE MIKE HUCABEE FOR PRESIDENT, HE IS THE REAL CONSERVETAIVE CHRISTIAN!!!!
By the truth
February 11, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
Sparta_bubba, So it’s the GOP that makes race issues out of nothing? How about when your darling Robert Byrd, Grand Wizard, said the N word on national tv? Oh no, dems can’t be racist. Blacks best interest would be to get out of the democrat party. It’s been 40-50 years and have nothing to show for it. Jesse and AL have not been kind to the black folk. Tell me why CNN and NBC has a category for every person? Why then, do Barak and Hillary make race issues and go to “black” churches? Why did the LA Times call Condi an Aunt Jemima? I guess I can call you Bull Connor Sparta, huh?
By GaVoter
February 11, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
WWRPD
Well, I think Ron Paul would welcome all to the way of the conservative. Yes, Indeed! All races, all denominations, all genders would likely be welcomed by Ron Paul. He would likely say that he prefers you to leave the Republican, Democrat, liberal, Right Wing Nuts, Racist, Bigot, Liar, and other inappropriate labels on someone elses sleeve — not that he likely has anything against any of you out there that wears any of these labels, that is.
By hdd3
February 11, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
By right wing nutjob
February 11, 2008 11:10 AM |
…People like the democrats have destroyed black america. Blacks have trusted liberals for so long and it has gotten them nowhere.As a black person who has seen the damage of keeping blacks dependent on the governments , I agree with this comment. However, coservatives, for many reasons, have a bad reputation in the black community. Recently, my father, who has voted for Dems since the 70’s, made a negative comment about Hillary. I said to him “finally you see what I have been saying for years about liberals”. He responded that he has always seen liberal policies as socialist and working against blacks but he could never vote for a republican because of his personal experiences with conservatives. He stated all have come across as racist.
Huckabee 08!
By Curious Observer
February 11, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
Blacks best interest would be to get out of the democrat party. It’s been 40-50 years and have nothing to show for it.
Yas suh, master Truth, we all know how hard the Republicans fought for the Women’s Suffrage Amendment under Woodrow Wilson; the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 under Johnson; and the National Voting Registration Act under Clinton. Not to mention that evil Medicaid and the CHIPS legislation.
Yas suh, we know you had our interests at heart when you worked to eliminate welfare and Medicaid and to make photo ID a requirement for people who had little access to driver licenses and such.
Yas suh, ahm gonna vote for you Republicans.
By GaVoter
February 11, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Jim,
Just out of curiosity, who were your First, Second, Third, Fourth, …..choices for president? I don’t recall ever seeing that in print. Also, where do you rank McCain and Huckabee? Is it somewhere around N^n, where N > 4 and n > N? Am I being too conservative with my guesses?
By the truth
February 11, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
Curious Observer, Yeah, mock me, whatever.
During the civil rights movement it was GEORGE WALLACE AND BULL CONNOR who were leading the south as well as other democrat! Republicans voted 84% to 60% over democrats in favor of the civil rights act.
Photo ID? How is that racist to show proof that you are a living human being?
You are no more black than I am muslim. How about Ronald Reagan implementing THE ONLY BLACK NATIONAL HOLIDAY?
Oh, yeah, republicans are running around with burning crosses all over the south aren’t they?
Racism is the hatred of another race. I’m sick of people saying that other people are racist just because they happen to disagree with you. Liberals are the masters of name calling. NO ORIGINAL IDEAS!!!
So, Curious Observer, you can take that yas suh statement and shove it up your arse!!!!!
By AmVet
February 11, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
The assorted nuts and crackers continue their faux debate with much righteous indignation, all to the bemusement of us other bloggers.
You bigoted Democrats! You racist Republicans! You race baiting liberals! You class-warring conservatives!
Wake up mopes! And think REAL hard.
What is the (lowest?) common denominator in the history of America’s racial oppression?
Come on you can do it. Just think about it for a bit.
Yep, that’s right.
The bastion of bigotry and the unifying locale is…drum roll please……….the Deep South! Democratic AND Republican. Conservative and liberal. Old and young. NASCAR and the NBA. Racial hatred is still very alive and well in Georgia. Either you condone it or you don’t. It’s really pretty simple.
Heal yourselves, get beyond it and join the rest of us in the 21st century.
By the truth
February 11, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
I just read a poll on yahoo news where it said Obama would narrowly beat McCain. They polled 520 dems to 357 repubs. Now, does anyone with a brain realize why conservatives hate and distrust the media? Polls are a huge waste of time.
AmVet, the deep south has a history of racism from both sides? WHO on the republican side is racist? Maybe you should check out George Wallace and Bull Connor. Nascar? SO, now nascar is racist? It’s people like you who see the world through racism. I guess you’ll be saying “KILL WHITEY.”
By UGA fan
February 11, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
I think Jesus would choose Obama! Obama is in it to transform society while Hillary is simply trying to achieve personal goals.
By Mike Taylor
February 11, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
Would you please explain WHY the IRS makes such a big deal about making sure churches “walk the line” in separating church and politics… unless it is a black church or democratic candidate??? Is the church where Clinton preached giving equal time to the Republican opponents?????
By Jim Wooten
February 11, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
GaVoter @ 2:08: My order of preference in the Republican primary : First, Romney. Second, Fred Thompson. Third, Rudy Giuliani.
By GaVoter
February 11, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
Join the Ron Paul movement now. You don’t have to be subjected to the hatred being spewed by those campaigning for the other candidates. With Ron Paul you can live the life of a true conservative. So, come on. Cast off those labels of hatred and join the Ron Paul movement. Support a real class act, Ron Paul in 2008. And remember, in times of trouble just ask WWRPD?
By time for a reality check again
February 11, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
AmVet, Curious Observer & Political Forskin
Birds of a feather…
By AmVet
February 11, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
Anybody delusional enough to use the moniker “the truth” cannot be taken seriously. And that moronic 2:10 merely confirms my supposition.
Yes, I understand that to overpowering sagacity of “the truth”, neither David Duke nor Strom Thurmond were Republicans. NOR WERE THERE EVER OR ARE THERE NOW ANY BIGOTS IN THE REPUBLICAN RANKS. They are ALL in the Democratic fold and always have been.
And we all know anecdotally that there simply could NEVER be ANY bigots who go to NASCAR races. (Tellingly “the truth” took no exception with the NBA though).
Go attend some NAACP meetings and try again “truth”. I’ll waste no more time with your obvious sophomoric and paranoid ideas, thank you.
By Dusty
February 11, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
Amvet,@2:10
I have BIG news for you. The Civil War is over. I think you haven’t noticed.
Citizens from all over the USA are coming south ..the SOUTH, buddy. And black citizens are coming too. Not because it is so BAD, but because it is one of the nicest places in the USA to live. So back off, brother. You are trying to drum up a bit of bad stuff but it doesn’t belong to the South. IT IS YOUR PREJUDICE.
By GaVoter
February 11, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
Jim,
Thanks for providing the question and answer. Have you ever run for a political office? I get a kick out of listening to politicians. So, who do you think will be our next president? Care to “crystal ball” it?
By Aquagirl
February 11, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
Is the church where Clinton preached giving equal time to the Republican opponents?????
The deal with the IRS investigations isn’t so much as what’s being said, but what’s being done with the money. I’m not a tax expert, but it seems like there are only so many personal assets you can accumulate while claiming they belong to the church, and thus not paying taxes.
Besides, I think Creflo Dollar’s ministry could be safely described as both mainly black and Democratic. So could Eddie Long’s.
Wow, with such a body count among his preferred candidates, no wonder Jim can’t bring himself to write about the Republican race. Well, that, and it’s also kinda boring.
By William
February 11, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Liberals are so loud and so wordy…what it really narrows down to is that we (conservatives) should compromise…the liberals keep their values and the conservatives relinquish their values…sounds like a good liberal compromise doesnt it….I would vote for howling dog before I vote for a liberal.
By the truth
February 11, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
AmVet, Care to take your head out of your arse? NAACP meetings? Would that be the same NAACP that hates whites? I left out NBA because the NAACP has already had it’s way in turning the NBA into a racist thugish game. Again, I believe you have a lot of racial tension backed up in to your head. I can actually think for myself and don’t need people like Julian Bond, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson standing in for me. I challenge you to do the same.
By GaVoter
February 11, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
I was at my peak in salary back during the First Clinton Era (just getting ready for the necessary distinction). I used to tease someone close to me that I paid more in taxes than they made before taxes. Now it looks like the joke’s going to be on me again. Yes Sir! With these presidential candidates (except Ron Paul), I’ll be teasing that I’m paying more in taxes than I make. I was kind of hoping to stay retired. Oh Well! There’s a Wal-Mart coming this way pretty soon.
By JesusHChrist
February 11, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
Just call me Savior….
By RealRep2
February 11, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
As a response to RealRep, I am a life-long real Republican too, but my party’s paranoia over illegal immigration, the connection between illegal immigrants and terrorism, and their amnesty phobia is quickly driving me towards voting for a Democrat as our next president. Female or “African American” (AKA “black”)is not an issue. The candidate who will effectively promote a way out of the quagmire of our “current immigration laws”, so often touted as a Republican mantra, is of little or no concern to me. Right now, I am leaning towards Hillary (Gasp) because she is the only one of the two remaining candidates that voted to strike an amendment to the failed “immigration reform” legislation that would have called for the creation of a Z visa. The Z visa would have provided a mechanism for undocumented immigrants present in the U.S. before 2007 to qualify for temporary legal residency (the Z visa), and ultimately get in line for citizenship after passing a background check, demonstrating efforts to learn English and U.S. civics, and pay substantial fines. Note that it would not have allowed them to go to the “head of the line”, thus jumping ahead of legal and documented immigrants who are waiting their turn for citizenship. Obama comes in a close 2nd to Clinton on immigration, but, unfortunately his position is too vague and too undefined as to how he would achieve his stated goals to “allow undocumented immigrants who are in good standing to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for the opportunity to become citizens.” As for McCain, I don’t understand his position that would, “Recognize the importance of assimilation of our immigrant population, which includes learning English, American history and civics, and respecting the values of a democratic society.” He never says how he plans to do that.* Mike Huckabee’s answer to the immigration problem is **no answer at all. It merely echoes the paranoia of the ultra-conservative wing of the Republican Party to secure our borders, arrest business owners who hire undocumented immigrants, deport those immigrants with no concern about their families many of which are legitimate American citizens and deny undocumented immigrants from having drivers’ licenses. I sincerely hope that Huckabee is the next dropout from the race.
Unless you are a Native American, your forefathers were also illegal immigrants who came here and stole Indian lands, killed Indian men, women, and children; and were worse terrorists than Bin Laden could ever hope to be.
By zap
February 11, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
republicans are hurting this country because they are republicans first and americans second, when a republican does something bad other republicans defend that person or just totally ignore their horrible actions even if it is very harmful to our country. their unwillingness to ever admit fault and their divisive tactics of invalidating anyone and anything that doesn’t automatically and blindly agree with them. george bush has done a horrible job and the first thing republicans will do is give him a pass and then start talking about how horrible carter was, all the while idolizing reagan as something better than jesus. reagan the same guy that cause our immigration problems the same guy that made deals with the iranians and drug cartels the same guy that raised taxes the same guy that cut and ran from lebanon. but that’s different. they’ll slame people like carter and kerry that served their country with honor and glorify terrible people like cheney and bush. and supporting politicians that want to make our country into a religious state is very un-american! there is no freedom in a religious state. and how women and minorities can be republican is beyond me. it’s just like shooting yourself in the foot. think about it ladies would you really want to live in a religious state? my wife grew up in the church of god religion. they couldn’t wear pants the men told them when and how to cut their hair males and females couldn’t swim in the same water at the same time. women do a woman’s work only, i.e. dishes and laundry. how many times a day would we be forced to face jerusalem and pray? you would be punished for being absent at church on sunday when they did roll call. we have freedom of religion why would anybody need anything else? and churches should pay taxes just like everybody else. you can have freedom of religion but there is no religion of freedom. and please remember that just because someone says they are a christian doesn’t make it true just look at that horrible person george bush who has put his buddies in the oil companies before ordinary americans. can’t wait for judgement day for ol’ george god is going to rip him a new one for using his name for his own selfish personal gain. the war the greed,katrina wwjd? he would have done all of those things differently. i’m not going to be afraid of what i am told to be afraid of like liberals and drugs and terrorists and gays and lions and tigers and bears oh my. but i am afraid that the christian conservatives/republicans will take my freedom away and ruin this once great country.
By zap
February 11, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
republicans are hurting this country because they are republicans first and americans second, when a republican does something bad other republicans defend that person or just totally ignore their horrible actions even if it is very harmful to our country. their unwillingness to ever admit fault and their divisive tactics of invalidating anyone and anything that doesn’t automatically and blindly agree with them. george bush has done a horrible job and the first thing republicans will do is give him a pass and then start talking about how horrible carter was, all the while idolizing reagan as something better than jesus. reagan the same guy that cause our immigration problems the same guy that made deals with the iranians and drug cartels the same guy that raised taxes the same guy that cut and ran from lebanon. but that’s different. they’ll slame people like carter and kerry that served their country with honor and glorify terrible people like cheney and bush. and supporting politicians that want to make our country into a religious state is very un-american! there is no freedom in a religious state. and how women and minorities can be republican is beyond me. it’s just like shooting yourself in the foot. think about it ladies would you really want to live in a religious state? my wife grew up in the church of god religion. they couldn’t wear pants the men told them when and how to cut their hair males and females couldn’t swim in the same water at the same time. women do a woman’s work only, i.e. dishes and laundry. how many times a day would we be forced to face jerusalem and pray? you would be punished for being absent at church on sunday when they did roll call. we have freedom of religion why would anybody need anything else? and churches should pay taxes just like everybody else. you can have freedom of religion but there is no religion of freedom. and please remember that just because someone says they are a christian doesn’t make it true just look at that horrible person george bush who has put his buddies in the oil companies before ordinary americans. can’t wait for judgement day for ol’ george god is going to rip him a new one for using his name for his own selfish personal gain. the war the greed,katrina wwjd? he would have done all of those things differently. i’m not going to be afraid of what i am told to be afraid of like liberals and drugs and terrorists and gays and lions and tigers and bears oh my. but i am afraid that the christian conservatives/republicans will take my freedom away and ruin this once great country.
By Jonny
February 11, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
As a strong believer in The Christ, I do not believe He would vote. Voting seems below Him.
By The Native Indians
February 11, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
Speak for yourself, RealRep2. We like our casinos just fine, thank you very much. Sure beats jerking buffalo in the teepee every night - I mean that’s really disgusting! And then we have to find something to eat.
Ew
By Curious Observer
February 11, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
zap @3:17,
For a hint of what a religious state would be like, review the literature on the Massachusetts Bay Colony—people hanged or pressed to death as witches, others driven out of the colony for not conforming to orthodox religious doctrine (e.g., Roger Williams), forced church attendance, etc.
By Jackie
February 11, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
The professional military has announced a “pause” in the surge in Iraq. The real war in Afghanistan is heating up noticed by Sec. Gates chastising NATO allies about sending more of their troops to compliment the 3,200 Marine contingent being SENT BACK AGAIN. With the number of suicides in the military at record levels, recruitment standards lowered with fewer enlistments; stop-loss orders being issued for soldiers trying to get out of the military; the failure of the government to adequately care for the more than 29,000 severely wounded troops does not present a pretty picture. Oh yes, there is no mention of the record deficits and the nearly $1 Trillion dollars spent in Iraq and the meltdown of the domestic credit markets where “our friends” are threating to price their goods and services in the Euro instead of the greenback. If that happens, hang onto your seats.
By Re-Zapped
February 11, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
zapusimplyhave2quitwritinglikeatextmessagingaddict.nobodywants2hearfroma16yearoldtextmessagingaddictuntiltheycanwriteintheking’senglishwithappropriatesentencestructureandsyntax.
thanku,
therestofus
By AmVet
February 11, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Dusty, read a history book for goodness sakes.
I notice that “the truth” made no response whatsoever to the obviously correct observation concerning Thurmond and Duke as bigoted Republicans, among many others. NONE. NADA. ZIP. ZERO.
Just the usual ploy of glossing over it and/or pretending it didn’t happen.
Why no wry retort? Why no witty justification? Why avoid the names?
Go ahead “truth” and just admit that your assertion that all bigots are Democrats was a really, really, really stupid thing to say. People will respect you more for having the courage to be a man and for saying so.
But I sense you are already WAY in over your head.
By zap
February 11, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
I would have been one of the so-called heretics burned at the stake had i lived back then. because i don’t believe like i’m supposed to believe. god is great but religion stinks! why would god give us all different brains and different personalities if he wanted us to all hide in one uniform group? why would he want us to give up free will? why would he want us to stop thinking and have a book that man wrote tell us how to live? why would he want us to strive so hard to be generic? and why would he want his followers to be the most rigid, insensitive, intolerant and sometimes down right hateful? religion is about control and manipulation not freedom. our country should be about freedom. and if someone doesn’t agree with you that should be ok. it should not be a signal to pounce and invalidate that person. the most important thing should be if someone has a good heart. our founding fathers and jesus were some of the biggest liberals this world has ever known. but now that’s wrong. and the worst part is they use jesus and patriotism to put down the same beliefs that have brought so much goodness into this world. amazing! america first! politicians last!
By Jesus
February 11, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
Greetings. Yes it’s Me. To your question what would I do, I’ll soon announce an Obama/Colin Powell ticket to unite My conflicted children in the US. Stay tuned for My signs, then obey My wishes.
By zap
February 11, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
re-zapped, the exact kind of person that is hurting this country.
By the truth
February 11, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
AmVet, I can already tell that I have gotten under your skin. First, my point was that Democrats always call republicans racist yet they overlook that racism in their own party. See George Wallace, Robert Byrd and Bull Connor. George Wallace and Bull Connor were the face of the democrat controlled south. Thurmond came to terms with his black daughter and apologized. David Duke is a nutcase. But you don’t want to hear that. Way over my head? With you? I usually debate people with an IQ higher than a carrot. So go back to your NAACP meetings and Louis Farrakhan rallies.
By Curious Observer
February 11, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
the truth @3:50
You forgot to include the neat little rhetorical flourish of telling AmVet to stick it up his arse. It’s the crowning glory of your retorts, and you must be more mindful if you are to retain credibility.
By the truth
February 11, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
Curious Observer, I asked AmVet to take his head out of his arse. Not stick it up there. Is my credibility okay with you now?
By Jackie
February 11, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
@truth
George Wallace, Bull Connor and Strom Thurmond were Democrats before blacks began supporting the Dems. Those folks with the same political agenda are now Repubs. Lyndon Johnson said in his signing of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, “I just gave the South to the Dixiecrats - now Repubs.”
By AmVet
February 11, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
You: First, my point was that Democrats always call republicans racist yet they overlook that racism in their own party.
AFTER I said: The bastion of bigotry and the unifying locale is…drum roll please………the Deep South! Democratic AND Republican. Conservative and liberal.
OBVIOUSLY Democrats have their bigots! Only a delusional and blinded partisan would believe that only one political party has a complete monopoly on racists. Or nincompoops. Or frauds. Or…
So yes, “truth” you made your point. Too bad it was only to show that you can’t help but speak in childish and stereotypical simplifications and insults.
ALL Democrats bad.
ALL Republicans good.
And that the detestable Louis Farrakhan bothers (scares?) you, I find humorous.
By the truth
February 11, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
Curious Observer, My mistake. I did tell him to take his rhetoric and shove it up his arse. I then told him to take his HEAD out of his arse.
By Lightbulb
February 11, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
Jackie, So, let me get this straight. Republicans are now racist because of Lyndon Johnson. Okay. Well, I guess I’m a racist because some chick on ajc blogs says that repubicans are now racist leftover dems. So, I guess you are a Nazi? IS that how this game is played?
By Dusty
February 11, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
Amvet, I think you want to be racist. That way you can claim that people who will not vote for Obama’s politicsl inexperience or his anti-war philosophy are RACISTS.
You are trying to get support for Obama by being a RACIST yourself and projecting it on others. Obama doesn’t seem to be using that tactic. Why do you?
By the truth
February 11, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
AmVet, Yes, we all have our racist but just because someone disagrees with you does not make them a racist. I don’t remember any republicans ordering the police department to spray down black marchers in Alabama. If you say W. is a racist then you are a complete moron. By the way, it’s funny how you democrats think that Bill was the first black president. Shows how ignorant and blind people can really be.
By Jackie
February 11, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
@Lightbulb,
Not all Repubs are racist, only those that were mentioned. The point of that pronouncement was, LBJ made a political decision that shifted the tide of elections from Dem to Repub. Many prominent Southern Dems in power exhibited racist tendencies. Those same people mentioned all moved to the Repubs. I am sure you remeber that? As for playing the game, innuendo is not applicable because the premise of your statement is not valid. Next point!
By Lightbulb
February 11, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
jackie, Thanks for setting me straight. I guess being a conservative makes me bigoted and racist. I guess I’m also supposed to hate America because the indians were killed off by the racist pilgrims. LBJ. Hmm, the same democrat that helped lose Vietnam. I guess I should join the democrat party to be a loser, a baby killer and coward. No, I guess I’ll remain a conservative and love my country and fight liberal trash as yourself.
By AmVet
February 11, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
Amvet, I think…
Dusty, did you ever see the movie “Bull Durham”? There is a line in it where Kevin Costner’s character, Crash, tells Nuke (played by Tim Robbins - beloved by all of you on the very far right!), “Don’t think meat!” And like his, your problems all begin when you start thinking. Don’t do it!
Curious Observer, I get the feeling the “truth” is somehow “related” to that completely demented and oh so delightful Brit Twit, “time for the truth”, who seems to have faded into the “conservative” sunset as of late.
Perhaps like the lovable Luckoduh he had his peepee slapped and this is just the latest “compassionate conservative” incarnation! But one that still talks in nonsensical circles.
Watching these guys getting completely shellacked this year, on both the national stage and in the blogging world, is proving to be enormous entertainment!
Gawd knows they have worked hard to earn it and I’m relishing every moment of the neo-conmen’s impending implosion!
KABOOM!
By the truth
February 11, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
AmVet, Kaboom is what’s going to happen when Osama Obama caves in to islam and allows islamic fascist to bomb us again. I love it how liberals, as yourself, gloat about winning the presidency yet you guys have won only with one candidate in the past 29 years. Also, yeah, lets compare people to movies. I guess I would compare you to mayor in JAWS who was such a moron that he didn’t see the danger looming in the water.
By Ron
February 11, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
Glenn,my Frenn,I read somewhere that out of 267 issues in 2007,Hillary and Obama differed on only 10 items.Their mouths can say words like change,but their actions say sameoh.Not a nickel's worth of difference betweenn them or their platforms.A politician will promise you the moon to get elected.By deegee
February 11, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
“Also, yeah, lets compare people to movies. I guess I would compare you to mayor in JAWS who was such a moron that he didn’t see the danger looming in the water.”
truth is stranger than fiction.
By AmVet
February 11, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
Ooooooh, truth is indeed a scaredy cat! But worse than Farrakhan, his nightmares revolve around the Mooslims who are going to get him.
Fool, you’ve already lost to the terrorists. You’ve practically become one of them. Intolerant, paranoid and for the most part, impotent. And sadly you embolden them by emulating them.
Wake up mope! There are WAY too many great Americans who refuse to be dupes like you. They are IN the game, they are working their a*******es off, in many cases behind the scenes, making this greatest of all nations even better, stronger and more secure, while you sit around soiling yourself bemoaning what you know precious little of.
And the rest of us are no longer amused at you and your fellow bumbling and irrational fear-mongers.
By the truth
February 11, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
Deegee, If you had actually read the previous line from AmVet then you’d understand the statement. So with that said, bug off.
By the truth
February 11, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this
AmVet, Did the government buy you a computer to play on? Is it paid for with tax payer money as is your food stamps? I don’t know too many people that want to get bombed again. Maybe in your fuzzy make believe world of unicorns you can get away with that kind of mindset, but here in the real world we normal humans want to live in a safe country. The thought of muslims flying planes in to buildings does scare me. I don’t know what you are smoking but I hope it wasn’t paid for by your food stamps.
By Jackie
February 11, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
One GA republican operative wrote an op-ed stating the Repubs have to get over “Reaganitis.” Has anyone noticed that none of the Repubs would utter Dubya’s name on the stump? I found that strange to disregard the political leader of their party. If the Repubs nominate someone other than McCain, the political tsunami will be LARGER than is projected.
By getalife
February 11, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
Sit back. Be entertained. Watch the ministers of political gospel at work. No admission charged
Yep, hilarious.
By the truth
February 11, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
Republicans have talked about W as far as fighting muslim terrorist. Unfortunately, his big spending and open borders have p** off the base.
By deegee
February 11, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this
When we agree that we want to live in a safe country then we will enforce traffic laws. Every day, every hour of the day.
By getalife
February 11, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this
Take a break from the hate and enjoy this lovely video
By AmVet
February 11, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this
Sorry, to blow another of your countless stereotypes, son. I own my own business and am a good capitalist. I pay numerous untold taxes and have worked practically every day of my life since I was a 14 year old kid plowing fields and working at the local grain elevator in Kansas. I was accepted for admission to the US Air Force Academy at the age of 17. Some years later I began my civilian career. I have raised a son who is, as we speak, in Air Force basic training. (Off we go into the wild blue yonder again!)
But I’m sure your life’s resume is even more compelling.
But your fears are delusional. This country may well be attacked again some day. She will withstand it and come back stronger than ever, as she always has and always will. And only the likes of you will cower in the meantime.
The rest of us will soldier on in the good fight. Many years ago I raised my right hand and swore to defend this nation against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic. I still honor that sacred pledge today and I pray to someone’s god it is not you or one of your brethren, I have to defend her against.
By Dusty
February 11, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this
amvet 4:39
Haven’t seen “Bill Durham”. Don’t have the faintest notion of what you are talking about “Don’t think meat.” If there is a problem with thinking as you suggested, you should look in a mirror. There you will see a deliberate racist.
By the truth
February 11, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this
Amvet, So now I am delusional for thinking America can be nuked. I think it is you who have faith in government. I’m glad you served. I think that everyone should serve in the military. Builds character and the necessary training for life. I do not agree that democrats can handle this challenge. They have proven time and again that they have nothing but contempt for the military. Bill Clinton did nothing to defend us from multiple terrorist attacks. ANYONE who says that terrorism is a law enforcement problem is insane. AKA John Kerry.
By Aquagirl
February 11, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this
Hey, AmVet, I didn’t know they had fuzzy unicorns at the Academy. With such a name, truth wouldn’t lie to us about that sorta thing, would it?
geta, that clip is freakin’ hilarious. The dude breathing into a paper bag as McCain talks about 100 years…BWA!
By Glenn
February 11, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
Aquagirl,
I’m really glad I asked you, instead of trying to tell you something, as what you said makes much sense now, and I guess I see why you cranked it up a bit but stopped short of fighting fire likewise.
Me, too: KJV -> RSV -> NRSV. I don’t really have any problem with any of the several wonderful vernacular translations out there; I just thought you might have been working from one of the proliferating paraphrases, almost all of which, of the ones I’ve seen, are horrid.
NRSV is so cool to have been derived from the postwar effort to get a translation upon which Jews, Catholics and Protestants could agree, and to run the Greek and Aramaic texts through the lenses of the Judaists, rather than e.g. German or British Hellenists. Besides which, the full-blown Oxford editions are miniature exegetical reference libraries in themselves. Pretty amazing uses of book technology.
Of course I agree with you about hatemongering in the Name o’ da Naz, and your internal reasoning is of course sound, systematic exegesis. I’m rather surprised, as are the scholars of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem U’s of late, by how little variance there is in the most ancient texts as received over time, though I agree with you that slippage is inevitable. (I believe quite a lot more, but that’s not for here.)
I can’t think of Rabbi Yehudi as a damner to Hell, however, rather than as one who braved Hell in our stead, to save us from obliteration and from erasure from divine memory. Also, while what he did on Earth surely is of great importance, why he was here—-and why that Triune Person is no longer here—-strike a lot of us as the essential questions.
Presumably the man was killed for being an ecclesiastical and political radical, but I don’t think his setting an example of care for the poor was especially radical in those days. At least, not compared with, for example, his treatment of outcasts, criminals and other untouchables, most especially females and children. Also, there doesn’t seem to be much question but that someone answering to that description did attack the inner Temple precinct at that time and claim sovereignty—-a couple of surefire ways to get whacked.
The trouble with reducing it all to Social Gospeling is that that’s just not worth the trouble of, you know, martyrdom and religious movements and crusades and all that jazz. I mean, the Prince of Peace as Peace Corps volunteer?
I sure do admire your courageous vulnerability, though, laying it out like that. Reminds me of K.T. Tunstall and the acting of Richard B., for some reason. This is my heart. Don’t tread on it, or else.
To clear away points of disagreement:
personally I haven’t seen “Christian fanaticism” except in the late ’70s in Central America, where such zealotry from both Right and Left got quite deadly;
don’t see a “bizarre set of standards” in the Mosaic Law upon which American Law, by way of British Common Law, is based. To the extent that any politically charged Christians want to re-ground our laws in their originary foundations, I say good, so long as Orthodox Jews are cool with it, as the Framers showed considerable deference to the rabbinate on such matters. If, on the other hand, the professed Christians in question are being truly zealous, then we should shun them as the Naz shunned the zealots of his time.
By AmVet
February 11, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
truth you are entitled to your views. That you see the Republicans as some sore of national security saviors is laughable but what they hey. And that virtually and shockingly none of the Republican leadership has ever served (sorry hiding out in Alabama during Viet Nam doesn’t count) may well explain the complete incompetence and mismanagement of this invasion/occupation. (Powell knew he was dealing with idiots and got out quick enough, didn’t he?)
The GOP I’m afraid has it’s now, well-documented, contempt for the military as well.
Dusty and you are a deliberate idiot.
By Glenn
February 11, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
Oh Ron, yeah, absolutely. I was kidding about there being any difference between the vacuity of Hillary and the vacuity of Barack. A vacuum’s a vacuum. On foreign policy they do differ: declare victory and come home vs. just come home!
Savioresque1: What does the “H” stand for? (I always wondered.)
Jauy, Justice of a kind, but not of the social kind particularly.
By Aquagirl
February 11, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this
Well, Glenn, I’m glad cooler heads have apparently prevailed in our discussion…it’s what Jesus would do, yes?
I think I picked up one of those new-agey Bibles, “The Book” or something, it was wayyyyy out. Maybe my Episcopal upbringing will not permit me to enjoy a loose translation of a translation. Really, the darn book has been popular for a while, there’s no need to mangle English versions to be trendy.
I stick with the poster, name long forgotten, of earlier…go with those red letters. Really, the words of Jesus are so profound, one could study them for a lifetime and not even scratch the surface. I think you’re correct, Jesus hanging out with prostitutes and others of ill-repute was more shocking than his care for the poor. However, his insistence that the poor might be spiritual equals, or even betters to the rich, was contrary to the current thinking of the day.
This is why I’m annoyed with the Huckabee sorts, who think God has prioritized abortion and gay marriage as sins deserving Amendments. There are plenty of other sins about, and what law of man ever changed a human heart? Our whole Constitution was based on the principle that the State had no higher connection to a deity than the individual. Defying the King, Emperor , or your local legislature was not defying God. And I resist all attempts of those who think they know God’s wishes to pass laws to enforce them. God can presumably get along without the help of the US Congress.
Haven’t seen Christian fanaticism? May I introduce…Eric Robert Rudolph?
By tlmjlw
February 12, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this
aren’t we supposed to vote for the man, or in this case man or woman, best suited for the job? Does it matter what color their skin? I don’t think that it’s demomcrats that keep black people in poverty, it’s the person, black or white, they stay in poverty more or less because they are lazy…it has nothing to do with who is sitting in the white house….I am a christian and I embrace the idea of immigrants being here, so long as they do it legally….I pay taxes and can barely make enough for my family,,,,I don’t think it’s fair for me to pay for illegal’s being here. Yes I would gladly give my own money to help someone out, but I would prefer them to try to care for themselves first. God helps those who first help themselves. I am sick and tired of hearing all this bs about race, democrats being non-christian and republicans being true christians. Who are we as the american public to say anything bad about any of the people running? I mean do any of us know them personally??? I think not…I’ll even go so far as to say that not one of you posting today even has a clue about what is going on,,,,and who is best for the job,,,,from what I’ve read most of you have just jumped on the band wagon, Just do yourselves a favor, we have a choice to vote for who we feel will best suit our individual needs as well as the needs for the country…vote for the person, not the party….we shouldn’t vote for someone based on whether they are deomcrat or republican, but by their values,,,,you might have a democrat whose values mirror your own, or vise versa a republican.. we should do away with parties altogehter….it seems so archaic.. I’ve rambled enough…..