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DEL.ICIO.US‘David’ wins one for the taxpayers
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Pro se is a legal term that means “for self.”
Sometimes, though, the lone David beats Goliath. It happened Monday.
A little-known Buckhead real estate lawyer, representing himself in pursuing a challenge to a tax district concept that invites abuse as it spreads across Georgia, won a big one for taxpayers.
The Georgia Supreme Court ruled unanimously — without a single doubt or dissent, mind you — that John F. Woodham, the pro se plaintiff who filed suit against the city of Atlanta over the funding for the proposed Beltline redevelopment plan, was right. His objections had been brushed aside as those of a meddlesome crank raising technical and procedural objections to something wondrous and good, the conversion of 22 miles of old rail line into a string of parks and neighborhoods, a project expected to cost $2.8 billion.
The merits of the Beltline redevelopment are not at issue here. If it’s a project the locals want and support with their own money, it’s of no particular concern elsewhere.
The core of his objection — and the reason it matters from Rabun Gap to Tybee Light — is that tax allocation districts have become the rage of local government officials. It’s a form of corporate welfare that should be used sparingly. Essentially, it freezes the assessments of property within a created district and attributes all enhancements for a period of, say, 25 years to a project or development that’s being proposed — the Beltline, or a major office-commercial-residential project like the one being proposed by the Sembler Co. in the vicinity of Briarcliff and North Druid Hills roads in DeKalb County.
If a home is worth $100,000 and property taxes are $1,000, an assumption is made that the development will cause the home to be worth $300,000, producing $3,000 in local property taxes. That $2,000 is then borrowed and handed over to the developer for infrastructure improvements. The premise is that, but for the proposed development, the property would not have appreciated and might even have lost value — hence a local government’s interest in creating the tax allocation district. In the case of the Beltline, estimates were that $1.7 billion in new taxes would be generated over 25 years.
Woodham’s legal objections came when a city of Atlanta development authority proposed to borrow the first portion, $28 million, to be turned over for Beltline development.
He asserted that local school boards have no authority to collect taxes intended for the education of schoolchildren and use it for unrelated purposes. The court’s decision, written by Justice Hugh Thompson, affirms Woodham’s contention that using school funds for noneducation purposes violates the state Constitution’s educational purpose clause. While the Atlanta Board of Education had waived most of its anticipated taxes in the district for the 25 years specified, the court noted that it is well settled in law that school taxes can be expended only for the support of schools and “such funds cannot be utilized for any other purpose.”
Tax allocation districts have a place — but what happens is that they become a form of corporate welfare inappropriately employed to fund development that would have occurred anyway within a reasonable period of time. More than two dozen of them have been created around Georgia.
The second concern — now addressed by the state Supreme Court — is that somebody is responsible for educating all those children whose families are attracted by large-scale developments. Before Monday, the education tax dollars of those parents were diverted to other purposes. The consequence is that property owners elsewhere are forced to pay not only for their own children, but also for the children who live in tax allocation districts as well.
Others cowered; David, in the form of John F. Woodham, came forth.
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By @@
February 12, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this
Huh?
While the Atlanta Board of Education had waived most of its anticipated taxes in the district for the 25 years specified
Voluntarily? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm…
By Ron
February 12, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this
Good morning Jim,On the surface this appears so simple it’s simple,to quote a friend of mine.One developer,though,say’s it’s only a bump in the road.He probably is employing the lady with the magic $315,000 credit card.I didn’t see a development,per se, on her list ,but there were some framing nailers and other tools.She could smooth road bumps.
By @@
February 12, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this
(((All Code Pinko Children Left Behind.)))
I told the MoveOn crowd ^^^ THAT two years ago, but they refused to listen.
McCain’s listening to conservatives though.
Leftist “loose gnits”—watch and learn.
By Aquagirl
February 12, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this
It would seem like a simple legal idea that school taxes should be spent on schools.
I never thought I’d see a Buckhead Real Estate lawyer as anti-establishment. Kudos to him for throwing sand into this unholy alliance Georgia has with developers. But don’t kid yourself, the developers will be back for round two. And more.
By @@
February 12, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this
Whoops! Sorry Jim, made a wrong turn this morning. My 8:27 belongs over at Luckovich’s.
By Curious Observer
February 12, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this
Good for Mr. Woodham, and good for us. If local governments want an improvement, let them show the courage to tax the citizenry to get it. We should not allow them to squeeze by through such artificial entities as TADs.
Local governments, in particular, have grown too cowardly to raise taxes, so they resort to legerdemain to acquire funds. Another prime example is Roswell’s plan to create a “stormwater utility fee” as an add-on to water and sewer bills. Lacking the courage to raise rates or taxes to pay for desired infrastructure improvements, the city council is about to hide behind what is effectively a tax that is being disguised as some kind of environmental protection.
I hope hundreds of Woodhams start rising up to challenge government’s cowardly modus operandi. The rallying cry should be, “If you want it, then raise the taxes to pay for it and then take your chances at the polls next election.”
By Peter
February 12, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this
OK Jim……. now let’s talk about the House Speaker a Republican, evading the law to get his quick divorce.
Why was that Jim…… perhaps he was having SEX with a lobbyist on special interest projects?
All the news that is fit to print, as long as we leave out anything that is the truth dealing with how wretched the Republicans are with ETHICS!
By Scholar
February 12, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this
Oh the complications that the human mind creates. It is a labyrinth of confusion that build upon itself. Wipe the slate clean and start over again.
By Aquagirl
February 12, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this
I suspect today’s topic will be abandoned fairly quickly—I just don’t see many of our regulars—or anyone period—-would argue that the City of Atlanta should have won this case.
Before we veer off into Wonderland, I beg a moment of indulgence; there are still more government-developer hookups in this State. The one at Jekyll Island is troubling. Check out this link to see what help they need today. A legislator has introduced some bills to protect Jekyll, but they could be bottled up in committee. You can call and keep this legislation going.
By zeke
February 12, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this
Thank God the Ga. Supreme Court had the intelligence and gonads to tell Atlanta and all the other tax and spend communists that they cannot do that without consequences! Now, let Atlantic Station, the PT Trolley group and others PAY BACK THE CITIZEN TAXPAYERS AND SCHOOL DISTRICTS ALL THE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS EMBEZZELED FOR THESES AND ALL OTHE TAD PROJECTS! CAN WE THEN TAKE ALL THESE OFFICIALS WHO SIGNED OFF ON THESE ILLEGAL CONFISCATIONS TO COURT AND PUT THEM IN JAIL?? INCLUDE MS. MAYOR, BILL CAMPBELL and OTHERS!!!
By getalife
February 12, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
John took on the good ole boys and won.
Good for him.
They will vote for the kook McInsane for the SC judges and he will probably win. More wars, 100 years in Iraq, a draft and the economy will continue to crash.
Watched Dodd speak on FISA amnesty for 2 and half hrs last night. Our Senate is using unity and will vote today to allow w to break the law again and give everyone involved amnesty.
So far, he has admitted torture, spying on Americans without a warrant and punked on WMD’s in Iraq.
The Dems have decided to not hold them accountable to win elections instead. Hope for the Dems to do the right thing, will be ended today.
If this is not broken government, what is?
By ponyboy96
February 12, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this
Hats off to Jim. Thank you for standing up for us little guys on this injustice.
By ponyboy96
February 12, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this
Hats off to Jim. Thank you for standing up for us little guys on this injustice.
By ponyboy96
February 12, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this
Opps…I meant John.
By Fed Up Taxpayer
February 12, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this
This is just one example of special interests stealing public money for private purposes. Does anyone remember the crooked (IMHO) ex guv of Georgia who stole millions from the Ga 400 tolls and used it to benefit his pals developing Atlantic Station? By the time the courts ruled against Roy the Crook (imho), the money had been spent, and the crook was out of office. The same crook signed an agreement with an out of state law firm to advise Ga Medicaid on how to recycle Medicaid funds as Ga’s match against Federal money: His out of state law firm buddies worked on the contingency basis, collecting over 100 million medicaid dollars from georgia for perhaps 1,000 hours of work, again imho. Roy the crook was a dummycrat, and yet lives and practices the evil black art of “political lawyer” here in Ga. Will no one hold the lying, thieving scum bag (imho) responsible for his crimes? Why oh why do we not have lynch mobs anymore? Why oh why do we not tar and feather crooked politicians anymore?
By Redneck Convert
February 12, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
Well, I’m happy for this Glenn Richardson about getting his divorce thru without nobody knowing nothing about the details. Sometimes you do things in a marriage you don’t want people to know about.
Take my friend Joe Bill, for example. When Joe Bill was on the county commission he worked hard to get a guy appointed as a judge. So when it come time to get a divorce, Joe Bill knowed just who to go to with it. The judge sealed up the matter tighter than a Pabst Blue Ribbon, and nobody ever learned nothing about the sheep or that 10-year-old boy. The judge slapped an order on the wife to keep her from saying anything either.
I guess the Richardson thing just goes to show how far the librul Democrats will go to try and slam godly Republicans. Its got to the point you can’t even have a few affairs without them wanting to slap it all over the front pages. Just look at what they done to the godly Sen. Vitter. All the guy wanted was some hired woman to beat him up whilst he was in a diaper and the librul Democrats acted like he kilt somebody. Or this Foley guy. Here’s a godly Republican that liked to write little love notes to some boys and they acted like he robbed the U.S. mint. And poor Sen. Craig. All I got to say is nobody should use a public toilet after that. Specially if a cop is in the next stall.
Anyhow, I ain’t intrusted in what Wooten writes about Those People down in Atlanta and their shenanigans, so I thought I would put my two cents worth on this Richardson divorce before the libruls got started moaning about it. We got to defend our godly Republicans. A election is coming up. Have a good day everybody.
By steve-o
February 12, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this
That ruling has the potential to really ruin the momentum of urban revitalization that has been taking place inside of the city over the past 10 years. TADs should be embraced by a lot of taxpayers in that they keep taxes down over the long term as the additional tax increment is reinvested back into the district for infrastructure improvements, property value write-downs.
Funding infrastructure improvements and being able to write-down speculative over-inflated values have mitigated the risks that some developers have had to take in the city of Atlanta. Talk about developers being greedy all you want, but they’re the ones that take the risk and they’re the ones that make projects happen. But now, it will be harder to entice needed services and businesses in underserved communities, it will be harder to make affordable housing work while achieving sustainable rates of return, and it will be harder to fund infrastructure improvements without property taxes increasing overall.
Using school taxes for TADs is an investment in the future in order to increase the tax digest at a faster rate than what would occur without any incentive. The schools still receive taxes based on existing values, but have to wait 30 years to receive taxes on additional value. It’s really a small price to pay for the long term goal of urban revitalization.
By Dennis
February 12, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this
Aquagirl February 12, 2008 8:59 AM “…there are still more government-developer hookups in this State. The one at Jekyll Island is troubling. Check out this link to see what help they need today. A legislator has introduced some bills to protect Jekyll, but they could be bottled up in committee. You can call and keep this legislation going.”
The reference by Aquagirl is to the proposed plans by a corporation, “Linger Longer” to develope a part of the beach which will include condos and…well, in short, more development than necessary, if any at all is needed, which it isn’t. Some upgrading of the present facilities is already taking place, I’m told, and that should be enough.
However, this proposal has become a political hot potato between those who enjoy nature the way it is and a corporation that wants to take nature’s naturalness and Georgia’s heritage, and make big bucks off of it.
I have not heard a single person nor seen a single post in favor of this development except for the big public relations push by Linger Longer, the corporation that stands to make the big bucks when the politicians at the state capital sell their souls once again at the expense of the people of Georgia and nature.
“Senate Bills 426, 427, and 428 are our last hope for preserving responsible revitalization of Jekyll Island.
“In a nutshell, SB 426 prohibits new permanent residences from being built on Jekyll Island.
“SB 427 Restricts new construction between Beachview Drive and the Atlantic Ocean to existing building footprints.
“SB 428 defines 11 words and phrases that appear in the existing Jekyll Island law that have been the subject of dispute.
“These bills have been assigned to the Senate Economic Development Committee, chaired by Senator Chip Pearson of Dawsonville, who represents all or parts of these counties: Dawson, Fannin, Forsyth, Gilmer, Lumpkin, Pickens, Union and White. His website is at http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2007_08/senate/pearsonbio.php”
For those of you who are concerned, the following will be of interest. Please make your calls today.
PLEASE CALL SENATOR PEARSON at (404) 656-9221. If you can’t talk to him, leave a message.
Lt. Gov., Casey Cagel, who wants to be Georgia’s governor someday, has come out in support of this needless development.
“PLEASE CALL LT. GOVERNOR CASEY CAGLE at 404-656-5030. If the Lt. Gov. is unavailable, ask to speak with his chief of staff (Brad Alexander - 404-651-5257) or his deputy chief of staff (Russel Carlson - 404-656-6731) and request that they urge the Lt. Gov. to support Senator Chapman’s Jekyll bills.”
You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.
By Political Foreskin
February 12, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this
David AND Goliath? Wooten sure knows how to sling it.
That’s 4sure. That’s 4dangsure.
By Dusty
February 12, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this
Well, Jim’s editorial continues to give us some deep thoughts this morning. That is, everybody but RedNeck but that’s no surprise. He’s a shallow but humorous undercover agent.
But here’s some things that come to mind: Why is a tax called a school tax if it is not used for schools?(As Aqua said—Simple!) Who organized this beltline project and why don’t THEY pay for it? Why is a STATE PARK a development place for private contractors? Aren’t State & National Parks places to save for their natural environment? I should have done more research on all this. Are there not covenants on these parks and is that what some legislators are trying to break?
Some of you here are doing a good job on protecting our few remaining natural beauty places. Keep it up. Wish you had been around to save Stone Mountain from “Silver Dollar”, where a dollar won’t get you anywhere in that park. Will beltline and Jekyll be the same?
By Dusty
February 12, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this
Well, Jim’s editorial continues to give us some deep thoughts this morning. That is, everybody but RedNeck but that’s no surprise. He’s a shallow but humorous undercover agent.
But here’s some things that come to mind: Why is a tax called a school tax if it is not used for schools?(As Aqua said—Simple!) Who organized this beltline project and why don’t THEY pay for it? Why is a STATE PARK a development place for private contractors? Aren’t State & National Parks places to save for their natural environment? I should have done more research on all this. Are there not covenants on these parks and is that what some legislators are trying to break?
Some of you here are doing a good job on protecting our few remaining natural beauty places. Keep it up. Wish you had been around to save Stone Mountain from “Silver Dollar”, where a dollar won’t get you anywhere in that park. Will beltline and Jekyll be the same?
By jbmlaw
February 12, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
OK, so I’m not jbm. (More dolphin than shark, really.) But he can always check my homework when he returns.
Jim, with considerable respect, you’re bridging factual gaps by linking unrelated ones. Some of the missing stuff:
Existing school funds per se never were to be used on the development; rather, projected school revenues were used as surety for the issuance of the development bonds.
The AJC, whose lawyers show considerably less prowess than jbm’s, has been unable to cover this story clearly because the Plaintiff, Citizen Woodham, Esq., does not sufficiently trust the Paper, with its long history of pro-development boosterism, to disclose to the AJC his full reasoning and purposes. Despite many attempts to goad and even taunt him into revealing his thinking so that it might be picked apart piecemeal by every heavyweight development attorney the AJC would tap for “the other side of the story”, Mr. Woodham very shrewdly (and Davidically) kept mum instead.
The other TADs are indeed numerous, but are limited to four counties. It’s legally appropriate, though Quixotic, to use this ruling to appeal the bond rulings that authorized the financing of some of those projects, but other TAD redevelopments are too far along.
Greetings again from California, as it was that tragically overdeveloped state which begat tax increment financing and first created the kind of redevelopment districts that morphed into Georgia’s TADs. In defense of California I would point out that we also gave the world the Boysenberry.
Lawyers are trained, in filing complaints, to throw the Plaintiff’s one best punch. Woodham picked the “Educational Purposes Clause” of the Georgia Constitution. Respondents countered by pointing out that Georgia redevelopment law gives developers sufficient leeway to cobble financing in such a curious manner. In so doing, they tried to get the Georgia Supreme Court to shift from constitutional to statutory law. Bad move. The Supremes were formed to sing constitutional tunes.
The Beltline coalition would have failed anyway, because they’d have run smack into tax nexus law, which requires what @@ and Aquagirl made explicit: an actual connection between the source of the revenue and its use. (In this case, using an educational revenue stream to guarantee bonding for other than educational purposes.)
That’s the somewhat boring part, which I’m sure jbm would have livened with the battle cries of God’s Patriotic People over against the Heathen Marxist Kleptos in relatively high places.
The more fun part is your Phase II, Jim, because that’s where Atlanta finally has to consider an amicable, trial separation from its domineering groom, Big Daddy Developer. It’s time to make developers pay school impact fees for development projects that generate school attendance or otherwise impact the school systems expensively.
And the very fun part—-as fun as “lighting a stray dog on fire and watching him run himself to death”—-is that Metro Atlanta’s school systems already fail demonstrably to use their discretionary revenues “for educational purposes”. They expend those resources solely on schools, and mostly on the salaries of union members.
They do not perform diligence due to ensure that “educational purposes” are being performed. Therefore they are once again in violation of the Constitution.
glenn
By David
February 12, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
Hey Jim! When do we get the blockbuster blog about Glenn Richardson trading his influence for sex? Or how about one about a female lobbyist tradi pus….well you know for political favor. Or one on the lobbying firm that pimps out its employee for political favor? Come on Jimbo. I know these are Republicans and all, but dayuuummmm. We can’t be havin this stuff going on in Georgia. Tell us all about ole Glenn’s bubba eruption.
By Jonathan
February 12, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this
This is great news. Does anyone know how this will affect the development proposed by Sembler at the corner of N. Druid Hills and Briarcliff?
By Jonathan
February 12, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this
This is great news. Does anyone know how this will affect the development proposed by Sembler at the corner of N. Druid Hills and Briarcliff?
By Dusty
February 12, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
Sorry about the double post. I seem to have a problem with the server today and have started over AGAIN.
As to divorces, I don’t think they are anybody’s business but the couple involved. That is, if it is all personal and not involving public concerns. AJC could stand some improvement but it doesn’t need to be another “Inquirer”.
By Glenn
February 12, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
Jonathan, see whether the development is within a Tax Allocation District (TAD). Then, if it is within a TAD, request of the developer a copy of the judgment (or else a citation for it, so that you can look up the text of the judgment online) from the bond hearing that authorized financing for the TAD.
See whether school moneys were used to guarantee the bond. If so, then bingo: you’d have a credible case to discuss with an attorney, citing the Court’s ruling in Woodham.
In all likelihood the Beltline project will not have been the first time in which school revenues underwrote a TAD.
By Peter
February 12, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this
Gotta love the Republican Party……they RUN FLORIDA.
Now we hear today how they have been running the prison system there….
TALLAHASSEE, Florida (CNN) — Softball, drunken orgies and a prison system run like the mafia. That’s what Florida’s former prison secretary says he inherited when he took over one of the nation’s largest prison systems two years ago.
This house, on prison grounds in Florida, is described as a party house where prison officials held orgies.
In fact, on his first day on the job, James McDonough says he walked into his office — the same one his predecessor used — and there was crime scene tape preventing anyone from entering. “That was an indication we had a problem in the department,” McDonough told CNN in an exclusive interview before he stepped down last Thursday.
McDonough revealed a startling list of alleged abuses and crimes going on inside Florida’s prisons:
• Top prison officials admitting to kickbacks;
• Guards importing and selling steroids in an effort to give them an edge on the softball field;
• Taxpayer funds to pay for booze and women;
• Guards who punished other guards who threatened to report them.
“Corruption had gone to an extreme,” McDonough said, saying it all began at the top. “They seemed to be drunk half the time and had orgies the other half, when they weren’t taking money and beating each other up.”
Don’t you WRONGS love the “Family Values” that are all wrapped up in being a Republican?
Makes Glenn Richardson, Georgia’s House Speaker look like choir BOY!
Heck all he did was have SEX with ONE Lobbyist for HIS special interest.
GO Family Values !!!!!!!
By steve-o
February 12, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
Atlanta’s schools aren’t failing because they’re underfunded. To the contrary, APS has the highest expenditures per pupil than any other school district in the state. Also, APS receives revenue from their 1% sales tax. Clearly the school board understood the value of investing in TADs when they approved to sign off on the Beltline, Atlantic Station, Eastside, Westside, and Princeton Lakes TADs.
A study commissioned by the Liveable Cities Coalition has shown that TADs cause a local government’s tax digest to increase at a faster rate than without any incentive at all. This ruling will definitely do more harm than good.
By Peter
February 12, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
Hey Dusty….. why don’t you check the LAWS all should have to abide by…..ALL divorces are public record.
Of course if you are Republican, you can get AWAY with stuff you know!
By Disgusted
February 12, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
As to divorces, I don’t think they are anybody’s business but the couple involved. That is, if it is all personal and not involving public concerns. AJC could stand some improvement but it doesn’t need to be another “Inquirer”.
How will we ever know, if divorces are sealed, whether the matters involved in the divorce are of public concern? Would you feel the same way if a public official’s divorce involved spousal allegations of incest? Sexual abuse of a child?
Daylight is the best antiseptic in such matters. If we common people are subject to open disclosure of our court records, why should it be different for public officials?
Wasn’t it you who recently shouted to the heavens about Bill Clinton’s affair in the White House? To be consistent, shouldn’t you be appalled at the public disclosure of such matters? After all, you are advocating for exclusion of the public from private matters. In your response, please indicate why Glenn Richardson’s legal matters should be treated differently—quite aside from the fact that he’s a Republican.
By Dusty
February 12, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
Peter@10:55
Today’s liberal propaganda machine does not include the Florida Prison System. Family values? Do YOU have any? Is your family in prison or what is the connection between Florida prisons and family values?
If you want something interesting, why not mention Berkley California prohibiting a Marine Recruiting office in their town. Now there’s a good liberal American place “supporting the troops”!
By GaVoter
February 12, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
Tell me more, Senator, about your plans to help people cope with their taxes.
Well, for one thing, government spending is out of control. So, I have introduced legislation to attack this problem on several fronts. First, I have proposed that Senator’s terms be increased to 15 to life. This ingenious legislation, which by the way is 100 percent bi-partisan, will virtually eliminate the costs associated with campaigning and getting out the vote and what not.
I can truly see the bi-partisan appeal in such legislation. Please, tell me more.
Well, my research has shown that taxpayers simply need more time — time to pay their taxes. So, I have worked very closely with our business community to develop a long-term tax payment plan for all our citizens.
Really! That is something our taxpayers should be most interested in, Senator. What is this plan of yours called?
Well, it’s a rather long name and we have not come up with the appropriate acronym for it yet.
That’s all right, Senator. Just tell us the name.
I call it the Local Option Sales Enhancement Reward.
Very interesting indeed, Senator. And, you say that you and your distinguished colleagues cannot think of an appropriate acronym? Perhaps you should hire a marketing firm to help you with that most taxing issue.
By GayGreyGeek
February 12, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
Disgusted @ 11:07 - Wasn’t it you who recently shouted to the heavens about Bill Clinton’s affair in the White House? To be consistent, shouldn’t you be appalled at the public disclosure of such matters? After all, you are advocating for exclusion of the public from private matters. In your response, please indicate why Glenn Richardson’s legal matters should be treated differently—quite aside from the fact that he’s a Republican.
She can’t. In DustBusterWorld, Clinton is EEEEEEEEEEEE-VULLLLLLL, while anyone with a “-R” at the end of their name is one of God’s Chosen.
By Glenn (the unoriginal)
February 12, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
steve-o,
I submit that TADs are too new and too few to constitute a statistically significant unit of analysis for a study by anyone. Redevelopment zones, in general, are a neutral tool, one which, I would agree, can be used for the public good. In most cases, however, they are a tool bought by the highest bidder. Moreover, they can as easily drive sprawl as underwrite infill. It seems that to ensure that the tool remains in service of the commonweal, public process, and lots more of it and somewhat more informed, is needed. This case helps to bring that about.
I could not agree with you more that “Atlanta’s schools aren’t failing because they’re underfunded.” They’re failing because they are ad hoc accretions of designs meant to serve other than student outcomes—-which is to say that they fail because they were not and are not meant to succeed. They can succeed only as magnets for more funding for school operatives who cannot succeed.
Why is a local government’s tax growth a good thing for other than city managers and planners?
By Dusty
February 12, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
Disgusted,11:07
Clinton conducted one of his most well known affairs in the White House which is government property. If Richardson did something similar he should get the same treatment as Clinton.
If a divorce involves incest, the judge in the case should refer to those who indict in such cases. I am not a lawyer but most law has some common sense to it. Otherwise we don’t need it.
I don’t think personal family problems should instigate a political witchhunt. I don’t like personal insults to family members either, such as Chelsea and the Bush twins have endured. Those without honor do such things.
By Jonathan
February 12, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
Thanks Glenn. Why are all these people posting off-topic, by the way? Is there any way to delete these comments when they are off-topic, Mr. Wooten?
By Jonathan
February 12, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
Thanks Glenn. Why are all these people posting off-topic, by the way? Is there any way to delte these comments when they are off-topic, Mr. Wooten?
By Disgusted
February 12, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this
Clinton conducted one of his most well known affairs in the White House which is government property. If Richardson did something similar he should get the same treatment as Clinton.
He can’t get the same treatment. His divorce records are now sealed. And we will never know whether anything his wife might have accused him of doing was alleged to have occurred on government property. Unfortunately, we don’t have a Kenneth Starr to post every detail on the Internet.
By Political Foreskin
February 12, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
Dusty, you need to learn a new word: irony. The evangelical right, earnestly and righteously prosecuting Clinton, broadcast sodomy to elementary school children so loud that to this day, second and third graders trade blow job insults like it was army boots on their moms. You and your kind have infected the gene pool of past present and future americans with sodomy and hate and you’ve ruined everything that our forefathers fought and died to preserve. You’re a polite terrorist. You’re tolerated, not welcomed.
By Peter
February 12, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
I guess Dusty feels only the Democrats, and Liberals have to follow the LAWS of this country!
Special Republicans do not have too….. “Family Values”
By Political Foreskin
February 12, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
Jonathan, you get a gold star for that. I’m going to give you the biggest break of your life: You have the floor. In 25 words or less, tell us what Wooten was trying to communicate this morning with his article about david and goliath. If you succeed, you will rule this blog. If you fail, then everyone will know what a total idiot you truly are.
For extra credit, tell us the mission of us troops in iraq. if you succeed there, I promise to blog right for six solid weeks and vote GOP in november. that’s a guarantee, pal. However, if you fail, then you’ll be ridiculed mercilessly for years and probably driven to level of a duhng, who replies to his own posts with aliases and blogs all day to himself from his grandma’s basement where she keeps her gerbils. Last time she checked, two gerbils were missing…..
By steve-o
February 12, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
Glenn,
You definitely make some good arguments. My opinion is based on both empirical and statistical facts. Empirical in that infill and revitalization projects like Atlantic Station and the new condo/office projects around Centennial Olympic Park would have not been possible without TAD support—especially in projects that set aside a small, but significant portion of affordable housing units. Statistical in that if you compare the tax digests of Atlanta, which has several TADs, and DeKalb, which has two small and insignificant TADs with school millage not included, you will see that Atlanta’s tax digest has increased at an exponentially faster rate than that of DeKalb. Also, Atlanta schools will definitely benefit in the long run as the incremental value becomes taxable within the next 20-30 years.
Also, a final point, sprawl is not caused by mere development incentives—rather it’s caused by low-density zoning and NIMBYism.
By DebbieDoRight
February 12, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
I, gasp!, agree with the Duster.
I don’t think personal family problems should instigate a political witchhunt.
Some things should be private. If all the legal requirements have been met, than the divorce’s reason should not be made public.
I hope Anne “The Man” Coulter can abide by such high standards.
By getalife
February 12, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
Congrats to w.
Not only has he won corporate amnesty, he has found a way to win illegal immigrant amnesty. No accountability for anything thanks to a united corporate corrupt Senate.
Our democracy has failed and the next President will be king like w.
Congrats gop supporters, your corporate government has won and finished off our country. It is not about we the people, the rule of law or the Constitution.
It is about corporate government. Nice work Jim and his ilk.
By Dusty
February 12, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
Disgusted,
Clinton was indicted for lying about his affair. He was not filing for divorce. If Richardson was “rumored” to have an office affair and it was PROVEN, he would get the same treatment as Clinton. Most people know you can’t indict someone on RUMORS. That is what you are chasing. If you can prove it was ILLEGAL, go for it! You, too, Peter. Find that lobbyist and make her confess.
PoFo,
You are falling for your own propaganda. I bet you couldn’t find one school in a thousand/million that is teaching little children about sodomy. Family values is the simple name for a philosophy that thinks a family together is good for the life of the adults and children. The last goal in the world is to teach outside the norm sex practices to children. Just the opposite in fact. There is no irony here. It is freaky liberals trying to reinvent good ideals that are true and good for most any and every family.
By Peter
February 12, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this
BY DUSTY….. “I don’t think personal family problems should instigate a political witch hunt.”
Well unless you are hunting a Democrat I guess…. seems like the Republican Speaker of the House in Georgia should be put under the same inquiry as Clinton had.
Both may have done the same thing, and I would bet that the local guy did much more…..and not only that it was about his political gains, not JUST SEX…….as was the case with Clinton.
Selling out the state of Georgia for sex, and political gain!
AND the law states there has to be 30 days before the divorce…..
AND why was the file sealed???????
By OneForTheRoad
February 12, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Jim,
The truly sad part of your story today is that the taxpayer v. government has become David v. Goliath. We, the taxpayers, put this collective Goliath (directly or indirectly) in power only to have to constantly do battle with it. Where are the words of Thomas Paine, Jim? Where is the common sense in it all?
I’ll do some little part come election day, Jim. I’ll throw the baby out with the water. Beware all you who wear the label, “Incumbent”. I’m ready for some change, too.
By Glenn (the unoriginal)
February 12, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
steve-o,
I’m totally with you on redevelopment. It’s just that I’m equally enthusiastic for stepped-up public process at the fiscal end and user-oriented design in the phases dealing with infrastructure, community services, cultural features and structural and landscape design. Otherwise that particular goose can be made to lay golden eggs for the Ol’ Boys, instead of for Us the Peeps.
Also, what do you think of recent Statehouse proposals to give local governments their own streams sourced in local sales taxes? Looks to me like big-box retail meets the “fiscalization of land use” all over again. Sprawl-O-Rama.
I’m an education planner, and as such have been complicit in the development of sprawl magnets.
By Dusty
February 12, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
Peter,12:10
Give it up. I have already stated my thoughts on that subject.
By Peter
February 12, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
Give what up Dusty?
The fact that we are being lied too, and manipulated by the Republican party and the leaders of our state, and the American Government?
Heck even Bush lied on public TV about what he was doing for Energy, the war, and about the ecology!
Who really cares what you have to say…..you behave like all is cool, and it is certainly NOT!
Bending and breaking the Laws of America is something the Republicans do really WELL !
By Dusty
February 12, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this
Peter@12:27
I understand that airlines have some great deals going today. Why don’t you try Venezuela? That might be a nice change from what you call a lying and manipulated American Government. Hasta la vista!!
Now I am going to eat an all-American lunch. See ya’ later, maybe….
By getalife
February 12, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
US Senate commits suicide on national television
Yep.
By Glenn
February 12, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
PoFo,
It’s two-fold, I gather: a tar baby ploy to draw the al-Q die-aspora there, and concentrate the indigenous unfriendlies, where the exchange rates and collateral are far more favorable to us than they would be here; and, frankly, nation building, in the fond hope of giving us a stronghold ally and more dependable base in the region. Strategically, both prongs shift the politics in the entire region rather like the pieces in a Fifteen puzzle.
What did you mean about consolidating our salient against al-Q&Co.? Afghanistan?
By Political Foreskin's Gerbils
February 12, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
…sure is dark in here & it stinks like…, well, we’re gerbils what do we know of bad smell. If this blog clown would get off his arse and do some honest work, then grandma would find her lost gerbils.
But I doubt it.
By getalife
February 12, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this
Clinton, Okennedy, Mcbushie, gomer, nothing will change with a corporate Senate:
You are getting punked America.
Hilarious.
By Peter
February 12, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
Dusty…… the last vacation I took out of the US was 12 days in Costa Rica June 2007, then came home and enjoyed the northeast later in the summer, we visited…. NYC, Connecticut, sailed on the sound, and visited Block Island, RI.
Thursday I get to go have Fun at the Cortez Fishing Festival in Bradenton Florida, which is always a fun time with 80 degree days, and fantastic beaches.
See Dusty, I love this country…..and travel as much as I can to see it.
Heck we are planning our summer get aways now, not to mention the Tampa Bay Blues Festival coming up in April, right downtown St. Pete on the water.
That is why at times I get so POed about the government, along with the government officials, and how they treat OUR American citizens!
Now I have a buddy who spent 3 weeks in Venezuela over the New Years holiday, he really enjoyed that, so maybe you do have a great idea!
I hope you actually can get away, and enjoy our GREAT country as well….typically at least once a month works for me…..how about you?
By steve-o
February 12, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
Glenn,
You’re absolutely right about giving local governments their own streams of revenue based on sales tax collections. I believe that Colorado has something similar and it basically makes local governments go out of their way to attract the big boxes, thus creating more sprawl.
By GaVoter
February 12, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
Travel. That is such a pleasant thing to do — for a while. When I was working in the Corporate World, the boss was always sending me off to Sacramento or Los Angeles or Dallas or Houston or St. Louis or…….Then, we started expanding. Going global. Then, the boss started asking me to go to India and China and Australia….I said, Enough! I don’t want to go. I took the first good retirement package tossed my way. Now my wife had to drag me off to the Bahamas last year and this year she wants me to go to Mexico. I said, Enough! What do you think I retired for? To travel all the time.
By Redneck Convert
February 12, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
Well, I sure feel bad for them two gerbils in that basement with that bum that won’t wash. Lunch didn’t go down too good today.
By Glenn
February 12, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
steve-o,
Especially since you obviously know whereof you speak, I’m very glad that you see the danger. Wooten and his readers don’t, and neither do Luckovich’s people, some of whom do understand the finance, but not the programmatic implications.
I’d appreciate your sounding off about this, as it could lead to much of what lies outside the Perimeter soon taking on the grid of Phoenix or Vegas, with quality of life to match. Witless self-destruction by (tax) incrementalism.
OneFer,
Dang if you aren’t right that the larger point of Jim’s David v. Goliath yarn is that it had to take place at all. To expand on that slightly, I doubt that any of the Respondents or their City friends have both the good sense and the decency to be ashamed of this Supreme Court decision.
What they did is what any decent Georgia layperson would call lawbreaking. They crossed the line, and broke faith with the People who chartered the State government and granted the municipal and educational authorities their now corrupted powers. In so doing they disgraced themselves.
Once again:
What is “the state”?
Where does it live?
Why does it insist on eating other people’s children for breakfast?
steve-o makes a really pungent point too: since the school boards aren’t doing anything useful with all their money, why not use it to help build cultural amenities, such as parks and libraries, that would serve educative ends?
If at some point the bond debt can’t be serviced, such that the school moneys would have to be taken, then who knows? Maybe the pupils would be better off. There’s no evidence to the contrary; but there’s some pretty compelling evidence in support of that prospective student outcome.
By Fed Up with UGA
February 12, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
Yo Dusty: Have a Heart Attack and Die, slowly (any chance you have a webcam and can broadcast your last half hour or so? I can always use a laugh or two). Luv, Hubby
By Barnes is a Crookie tooie
February 12, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
Does anyone remember the crooked (IMHO) ex guv of Georgia who stole millions from the Ga 400 tolls and used it to benefit his pals developing Atlantic Station? By the time the courts ruled against Roy the Crook (imho), the money had been spent, and the crook was out of office. The same crook signed an agreement with an out of state law firm to advise Ga Medicaid on how to recycle Medicaid funds as Ga’s match against Federal money: His out of state law firm buddies worked on the contingency basis, collecting over 100 million medicaid dollars from georgia for perhaps 1,000 hours of work, again imho. Roy the crook was a dummycrat, and yet lives and practices the evil black art of “political lawyer” here in Ga. Will no one hold the lying, thieving scum bag (imho) responsible for his crimes? Why oh why do we not have lynch mobs anymore? Why oh why do we not tar and feather crooked politicians anymore?
By Filster
February 12, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
Yet another prime example of the City of Atlanta’s fiscal responsibility. Other prime examples you query? Oh, Grady Hospital srongs to mind. Atlanta’s new motto should be “It’s your money and we’ll spend it however stupidly we want.”
By Realist
February 12, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Yes, its THE realist.
Steve-O. Boy oh boy. You have it exactly right, but wrong. The risk developers take is being reduced by these TAD payments. If an area is undeserving of development, as you said, why develop it? If the developers see that there is something viable and marketable in an area, then take that risk and roll the dice, but do it without using school tax money and a nice big safety net in place.
Im glad this man came forward and shot this little sweetheart deal down.
By Bowzer
February 12, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
Glenn or JBM or whoever you are. The comment about setting a dog on fire was disgusting and inappropriate, even if said in jest. That sir is repugnant and evil and there is no place for that sort of talk among civil humans.
By OneForTheRoad
February 12, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
What is it about government jobs? They’re like some odd sort of scum magnet. No. Worse.
By shane
February 12, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
good for John. Not that I really understand what’s happening with all this talk of bonds and TADs (and I’m pretty well informed, but I’m also smart enough to know when I don’t understand and therefore should just listen until I do). I’m not sure about the impact of what he’s done, but it’s good to see citizens standing up against our idiot city managers and their developer friends - these folks should have to follow all the same laws we, as common folk, do, and unfortunately, that only rarely seems to be the case… kinda like what’s going on with the speaker and his divorce (which everyone here seems reallys stoked to talk about).
As to that, I must say, if you were stupid enough to ever get married, then you should have to do what everyone else does when they get a divorce; have all of your dirty laundry aired out for all to see. Marriage is a farce created by our government to control us (and fervently supported by mothers-in-law across the country). It never made any sense to me that if I love someone I have to have the government’s mandate or approval, and getting married for the tax-breaks (which really aren’t that great and sometimes are non-existent based on your income or whether or not you have children) seems callous and only cheapens the experience of love.
Considering that the overwhelming majority of marriages end in divorce anyway, I’d suggest you guys out there save yourself from the financial burdens (the irrationally high cost of putting on a wedding - the inevitable cost of divorce) and emotional pains of eventually having all of your relationship put on display.
No man in their right mind would get married in this day and age. Save your money for a nice house for you and your family and maybe save a little scratch for college for the kids. If a ceremony and some sense of tradition is really needed, then go for something moderate and don’t give in to monster-in-law or your wife’s irrational desire to outshine all her other friends’ weddings. If anything, don’t ever let the government know you’re “married” - in the end of things, the less your government knows about you, the better off you are almost 100% of the time. that includes marriage - just look at the attention the ol’ speaker’s getting and think about the implications of your nearly unavoidable divorce.
And before everyone here gets all uppity and says I’m a miserable person for believing this way, I’d like you all to know that I am a hopeless romantic - I take care of the person I’m with and I’m one of the most attentive partners anyone could ever hope for (all except for ending sentences with a preposition here and there) - I just don’t need the government’s approval, or anyone’s else’s really, when it comes to love. I just need my partners. oh, and I’m not gay either - I just like the term partner - it reflects the equity that I think should be part of every relationship. I’m not your ‘friend’ (boy/girl-friend) - I’m your partner.
oh, and I hate christmas too - have a field day with that one guys.
you don’t have to participate in all this bullsh*t that tradition and your government have created. You can ignore them, or start your own. have a little creativity folks. Quit being force-fed all this dribble.
By steve-o
February 12, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
Realist,
Using the school millage is an investment, on behalf of the schools, to increase the growth rate of the tax digest over the next 20-30 years by attracting development. TADs have limitations in that a tax district cannot contain more than 10% of the county’s or city’s tax digest. Also, there are several tests for the viability of establishing a tax district.
TADs are definitely used to mitigate risk. They are also used to fund evironmental clean-up for future development (Atlantic Station), build infrastructure and roads, and supplement returns for projects that include affordable housing. In many underserved areas, speculators have jacked up land values to the point that developers won’t take the risk because of a lower-rate of return, even if the market conditions are favorable.
One more thing that people should note is that schools still collect tax revenue from the existing values at the time a TAD is established, however they don’t collect the incremental additional values as a result of property appreciation from new development over a 20-30 year period. It’s very useful incentive to spur urban revitalization and sustainable development patterns.
By DJ
February 12, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
So the obvious question is, did Wooten support or object to the proposed TAD being discussed for the Sembler development at North Druid Hills and Briarcliff? He uses big words like “corporate welfare” (big for your typical knee-jerk republikker voter anyway), and he’s right about that, but at the end of the day Wooten is just another right-wing apologist who shills for republicans 98% of the time. How could he ever vote against giving a big fat wad of taxpayer dollars to some profitable mega developer or corporation? He’d get kicked out of his little club!
By Bayard Moon
February 13, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this
Why is that the question, when Mr. Wooten states that it’s beside the point? (His point and Mr. Woodham’s)