Home > Thinking Right > Archives > 2008 > January > 10 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USVoter ID. The end is near.
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
One of the silliest partisan political disputes of recent times — whether states can insist that potential voters produce proper identification — finally hit the U.S. Supreme Court Wednesday.
The case came from Indiana but the dispute tracks the one here in Georgia. Indiana’s law is stricter, requiring applicants for voter identification cards to present documents such as birth certificates, which can be harder to produce. They can vote, however, by filling out an affidavit at the nearest county clerk’s office. Voter ID cards are free in Georgia to those without other approved forms of identification, such as a driver’s license.
“You want us to invalidate a statute on the ground that it’s a minor inconvenience to a small percentage of voters?” asked Justice Anthomy M. Kennedy, who often casts the deciding vote in 5-4 splits.
As we heard repeatedly in Georgia, especially from Democrats and liberal commentators, photo IDs aren’t needed because “there’s not a single recorded example of voter impersonation fraud,” to quote the lawyer for the Indiana Democratic Party, Paul M. Smith.
Impersonation fraud, however, is hard to detect. Unless by happenstance a poll-worker knows the would-be voter and knows him not to be who he says, the fraud is not detected. “What if we determine that it does serve a purpose in preventing fraud?” asked Chief Justice John Roberts.
The dispute, at its core, has never been about anything but politics. The Dems use the perfectly reasonable Voter ID requirement to convince their voters that Republicans are trying to prevent them from voting. It’s silly, yes. You had to be there.
Georgia’s Secretary of State, Karen Handel, who has nevertheless done a first-rate job of attempting to make certain there’s nobody on any backwood trail anywhere in the state who hasn’t gotten the word to bring proper ID to the polls, was in DC for oral arguments.
“If it is upheld for Indiana, I think it will dramatically boost our case in the State of Georgia,” she said.
These challenges are time, effort and money wasted. The challengers say: If we were in power, we’d have chosen another approach (usually absentee voting) to restoring the integrity of the voting process. Fine. But just because one party doesn’t like the choice made by another to achieve the same end doesn’t make it unconstitutional.
The betting here is that Indiana gets upheld. We’ll know by summer.
Comments
By Southern Democrat
January 10, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
As I’ve said before, I have no problem with Voter ID laws. I would, however, feel more comfortable if electronic voting machines dispensed receipts. The argument that it will lead to votes being bought is silly and ex post facto, Diebold and others already bought the votes of the right state officials in California and Florida to win the contracts for their sub-standard, easily manipulated machines.
Mr. Wooten complains of the wasted tax dollars expended on this issue. I agree to some extent, but I would also like a refund for the Gonzales & Ashcroft initiatives to have US Attys spend thousands of dollars to investigate “voter fraud” in closely-contested districts that were won by Democrats. I’m curious why there has still never been an FEC investigation or report on Ohio in ‘04?
In sad news, a personal hero of mine, Chris Christie (US Atty for NJ), who has done magnificent work in trying to clean up corruption in that state, now stands accused of pushing no-bid contracts to Ashcroft’s consulting firm. Mukasey’s lieutenants don’t like it and are investigating… if proved true, this would really devastate me.
By @@
January 10, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this
Voter IDs have always seemed reasonable to me Jim. I just wanna say…
congratulations to the Democrats!
When the chickens squawk, in swoops the hawk.
By Anonymous
January 10, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this
Voter fraud has not been a problem; lack of a verifiable paper-trail for electronic voting HAS been a problem.
And Wooten applauds the attention being paid to… well, guess which one?
By Mr. Turkeyneck
January 10, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
I’ve got no problem with voter’s having to show ID. I do have a problem with lawmakers focusing on that, yet ignoring the real vote fraud that goes on in Georgia with absentee ballots.
By Glenn
January 10, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this
This one’s broken the prows of several Murphy-Class juggernauts, as it’s a state issue fraught with devilish details inseparable from the proliferating political agendas. Are the DMVs the proper and trustworthy administering agencies? (Vide their record on licenses and IDs for 9/11 hijackers with expired student visas.) Which agency [ies] would be most appropriate? Would they be adequate? (Vide TSA.) A stand-alone ID? A piggyback one? Biometric? Homeland Security issues? A national ID? Really? Necessarily so? The Patriot Act? What qualifications for the ID? Principal Whatshername’s compulsory voter training courses, promoted in this very space?
By TW
January 10, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this
And congratulations to the Repulican candidates for not wearing bags on their heads. Just another advantage of having an ignorant base - the ten states with the lowest SAT scores in 2004 ALL voted for Bush…got brains???????????
By Redneck Convert
January 10, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this
Well, I see this activist judge in Missouri decided it was against the Constatution for a school to give away free Bibles to all the kids. Its another example of judges making the law up. Here these poor kids are, some probly infidels like Jews and Muslims and Hindus and even Catholics. They are facing the fires of Hell if they don’t get converted to the True Religion, and a judge decides they can’t get a Bible to help them become good Baptists or Holiness people or even Methodists to save theirselfs. Its another reason we need to elect the Rev. Huckabee as president if we can’t figure out a way to allow My President to serve another term. We need a president that will appoint judges that will allow our preachers to get into schools and the kids to open every day with a prayer to Jesus and maybe dunk a few of the kids in water to Baptize them. We got to put a stop to these activist judges.
I’m all for the voter I.D. laws. Just look at how the number of Those People has increased at the polls in the past 40 years or so. They vote for librul Democrats and try to change our good Southren way of life. Its good if we can turn a few of them away if they don’t have I.D.
But I say leave absentee voting alone. Its used by godly Southren White Republicans alot. We don’t need to be checking them to see if anybody is taking the place of somebody else. Whatever we do, we shouldn’t make it harder for White people to get their votes in. As for me, I don’t care weather Grandma is dead but her son has been voting in her place by absentee ballot for the past 20 years or so. Anything we can do to keep good White people on the voting roll to help offset the crooked increase in Those People is OK by me.
Anyhow, I was real sorry to see everybody ganging up on Sister Dusty yesterday. These libruls think you have to have a big brain to argue on this blog. Well, Sister Dusty is proof it ain’t so.
You don’t have to be a godly Southren redneck to understand it, just a sinful heathen to deny it.
By asked and answered
January 10, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this
a national Homeland Security issued biometric ID. It’s a twofer.
By GaVoter
January 10, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this
Mr. Wooten,
I was really tempted to ridicule you, as others have done on past topics, on your choice of topic. I just think there are too many other more important issues to discuss — especially as we delve deeper into the qualifications of our presidential candidates, etc. How many times do we need to say “One person, one vote”? How many different ways can we say “Any qualified person who wants to vote can vote”? Do we really need to continue to beat the dead horse: “It won’t cost you anything extra to get an ID except maybe a few minutes of your time”? Then I stopped and asked myself “If the Supreme Court is having problems reaching consensus on this topic, who is Jim Wooten to question it?”. Of course, this question logically leads to a series of other equally relevant questions. Don’t you think?
By Politics Aside
January 10, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
Justice Scalia continues to impress! I like what Justice Scalia said about lethal injection. Scalia insisted that the rare pain experienced during lethal injection does not constitute cruel or unusual punishment because after all, “we used to execute prisoners by firing squad, and that had to hurt a little…”
About Voter ID, Scalia was even more eloquent: “We used to choose witches by throwing naked women in wells to see if they’d float, so a voter ID requirement for choosing presidents is hardly a crucible. “
Justice Scalia refused to comment on reports he’s hosting a new reality tv series: “Wife or Witch”, where married men send photos of their wives and a brief description of the evidence that they married witches and then the most likely witches are chosen for a series of crucibles, like sink or float, make a cat howl, walk on hot coals, survive 500 lashes with a cat-o-nine tails, and look, ma, no hands broom gripping.
By sandy
January 10, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
If the Democrats are confident that all of the votes they receive are from legitimate registered voters, then they should have no problem with a voter ID. My question would be how many registered voters are there in Georgia that do not have a picture ID. That should be easy to calculate from state record. Sounds to me like there is some voter fraud going on and somebody’s trying to keep it under wraps.
By Abomi Nation
January 10, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this
This voter id controversy is so Georgia.
How much time has our state spent on this non-issue? Same thing every year. This year its the stupid gun laws and of course the great Tax.
Education? Traffic? Water?
What? They are talking about transportation? Tunnels, you say? Oh yeah, I forgot. The 20 billion dollar plan to tunnel freeways under Atlanta. Oh, and GDOT does have almost 10,000 projects they are in the middle of. These projects could very well be done by 2133. Which will surely help.
Great tax and tunnels. Voter ID laws. Loony gun laws. Predatory lending. Go Fish. Unconstitutional child predatory residency laws. Sunday alcohol. Evolution. Good job.
Congratulations Jim on what you consider a GREAT victory! The state of Georgia is going to get its useless Voter ID law back. Happy days are here again.
That of course opens up some free time. Maybe they should go after gay adoption this year. We haven’t had a good gay issue in a couple years. Flag fight anyone?
Go Fish
By jbmlaw
January 10, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this
Good morning all. I favor requiring live voters to produce state-issued photo id. The risk is not so great for absentee voters, as their ballots have to be notarized – then a notary can verify identity in any manner reasonable to the notary. By any measure, requiring the photo id can theoretically reduce voter fraud. Of course, were that our real objective, we would abolish the motor-voter registration procedure, which is the single element creating the greatest risk of fraud.
Several funny lines from the oral argument yesterday. Justice Roberts, a native of Indiana, noting that one of the arguments was that Indiana has a huge volume of ineligible (due to death and movement out of state) voters on its rolls, asked the Indiana counsel whether the court should affirm the law requiring instant id and minor inconvenience to the voter, since the state does such a poor job monitoring eligibility. Justice Scalia asked the opposing counsel, if requiring photo id for voting is discriminatory, perhaps it is also discriminatory to require it for passports?
The thrust of argument seemingly favored some state latitude in determining what level of protection is necessary to avoid fraud. That makes sense to me, as the risk of voting fraud is probably different in Chicago than it is in Utah.
By Profit
January 10, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
A poem for Hillary: Fatty fatty, 2 by 4, couldn’t get thru the bathroom door, so she did it on the floor, licked it up, and did some more.
By GaVoter
January 10, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
We could have stuck with the education issues instead of this one. After all, perhaps part of the problem is in educating people on the definition of Voter ID. Where to start?
When a teacher makes a statement such as “Our public education system has failed us miserably” one might interpret that as an admission of at least contributing to the problem. When a politician says “Our public education system has failed us miserably”, how smart is that?
By Profit
January 10, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
If you oppose ABORTION, then you must also oppose BABY BURNING. McClown is a BABY BURNER from way back, dropping napalm on third world villages in which hundreds of babies slept
By jbmlaw
January 10, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
Dear Southern @ 9:22, good morning, long time no chat. I’ll support your campaign for receipts, although I would not require retro-fitting if the cost is high. The useful life of the voting machines cannot be too long, so I would favor a “going-forward” course correction. Another thought on the photo-id issue: since digital cameras are cheap, why not just photograph and/or fingerprint the people who present themselves at the poll with no identification, and use a provisional ballot. In fact, why do we not photograph people when they register to vote? Seems like a logical long-term solution.
Dear TW @ 9:41, you persist in your silly argument that inner-city low SAT scorers vote republican, and suburban high SAT scorers vote democrat. Are you not embarrassed to make such a patently foolish observation? The first rule of argument, do not proffer as principle that which is so easily disproven by logic.
Dear GaVoter @ 9:53, rather than one-person one-vote, I would switch to Dr. Williams’s one-vote per $10,000 taxes paid, so that those who pay the piper call the tune. Why not, unless your goal is to enshrine theft as a valid political end?
Dear PA @ 10:11, I agree, Scalia is easily the brightest light on the court, and I think he is the brightest since Cardozo. Great vision, great humor, both of which seem so lacking in so many of our overlords.
Dear Abomi @ 10:13, you correctly blame the leftists for the voting id kerfuffle – had they simply accepted the obvious years ago, the issue would be long dead now.
By jbmlaw
January 10, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
Dear Profit @ 10:26, time for your meds. The subject is “voting id.”
By The Prophet
January 10, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Blogging is tapping into someone else’s thoughts.
Voting is rejecting the pack for the individual.
Judging others is pardoning yourself.
I am the prophet. I know all. I see all. I’m also Retro-rocket Man.
By TruthoftheMatter
January 10, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Folks, the wingnuts have killed the Republican party. All of their plots and schemes will be for naught for decades to come. Between the anti civil liberties Bush/Cheneyites and the alienation of the Latino populace, that is registering to vote in record numbers, and all of those that will go to the polls for several generations to come the Cons are dead meat. They shot themselves in the foot. Don’t even worry about the ignorant, bigoted, xenophobic, nativist right wing maggots. They are dead and their smelly carcass is about to be buried.
By Dennis
January 10, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
By GaVoter January 10, 2008 10:25 AM “When a teacher makes a statement such as “Our public education system has failed us miserably” one might interpret that as an admission of at least contributing to the problem. When a politician says “Our public education system has failed us miserably”, how smart is that?”
Thank you.
You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.
By Dusty
January 10, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
Ah, Jim Wooten
Democrats have to have something to do other than investigating every move that Bush makes. Voter ID seems to fit the bill right now.
As you correctly wrote, this isone of the silliest partisan political disputes of recent times.
If this one doesn’t work, you can see that the next move for Democrats will be the demand for paper printouts from voting machines.
Let me suggest to Democrats another move. “No one wearing perfume should vote because other voters may be allergic.” Nawwww…sweet but not partisan enough.
By GaVoter
January 10, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
jbmlaw @10:34,
I thought your “monetization” of the election process was already built in as a result of the people with money providing us their choices to choose from.
By RealityBites
January 10, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
Enjoy political oblivian Dusty. You and those of your ilk richly deserve the retribution that is about to be metted out to all the right wing trash. Enjoy decades of the outside looking in.
By Abomi Nation
January 10, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
jmblaw, of course the “lefties” were going to fight it. The only purpose of the Voter ID law was to antagonize.
It is a political issue. It has no real value. The fact that they made no attempt to “safeguard” the absentee ballot at the same time is part of the proof.
By Duh is for Dusty
January 10, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
And what would be wrong with paper printouts to verify accuracy Dusty. Seems just as reasonable as voter ID. What’s your problem with it?
By getalife
January 10, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
w spews there should be an end to the occupation.
No, not the Iraq or Afghanistan occupation.
Embarrassing watching this loser trying to achieve something.
By GaVoter
January 10, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
You are welcome, Dennis. I wish I had more to offer. Alas, I am but one person — one vote.
By Dusty
January 10, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
Reality Bites the Libs @10:59
Nice word “oblivian”. Oblivious is better. Democrats have suffered from oblivious decline so long now. And headed into at least another four years of it. Keep trying, and use your real ID. Don’t be ashamed now.
By JK
January 10, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
The voting reform advocated by the fake laywer man at 10:34 is closely akin to Plutocacy: (from wikipedia)Rule or power through wealth or by the wealthy. …. the degree of economic inequality is high while the level of social mobility is low. This can apply to a multitude of government systems, as the key elements of plutocracy transcend and often occur concurrently with the features of those systems. The word plutocracy (Modern Greek: πλουτοκρατία - ploutokratia) itself is derived from the ancient Greek root ploutos, meaning wealth and kratein, meaning to rule or to govern.
If fake lawyer man does not like the Represenstative Republic established by our founding fathers and set forth in the Consitution, perhaps he could find another country where he’d feel more comfortable pledging his loyalty, allegiance, and taxes.
By Profit
January 10, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
If you can call that living - Novak should just drink the kool aide - for esthetic purposes
By Dennis
January 10, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
By jbmlaw January 10, 2008 10:19 AM Good morning all. I favor requiring live voters to produce state-issued photo id.”
Your being an attorney, I would like to think you could see beyond this to what the issue(s) is/are.
But since you favor I.D.s for voters, why stop there? Why not require a voter I.D. as soon as the baby (future voter) is born? Get a thumb print that can be entered into a scanner at voting time. The technology is already here….
The time is coming when every new born child will be required to donate a little blood for future DNA tracking - allegedly to identify them in case of accident, etc., but actually in case s/he committs a crime - especially againist the corporate controlled government.
Kids are being trained to accept thumbprints as a part of everyday life in some schools - stick your thumb in the scanner, then pick up your school lunch.
In the meantime, you and others are playing games of how “free” you are.
This isn’t so much paranoia on my part as watching the technology being used to squeeze, squeeze, (squeeze a little more), Americans out of the ideals of (should I say, “reality”) really being free.
Even one Supreme Court justice (Scalia?), says that the freedoms Americans think are guaranteed to them by the Constitution are not there.
You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.
By TW
January 10, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
jbmlaw – not only is it true that the ten states with the lowest test scores in 2004 ALL voted for Bush, but the more educated one becomes, the more likely they are to vote Democrat. I really don’t know why this bothers you, being that your party has been so successful because of the prevalence of the snake oil consumer. Be thankful for stupid people, jbmlaw – capitalizing off their ignorance is such a lucrative venture!
By jbmlaw
January 10, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
Dear JK @ 11:11, and of course the modern system, as your advocate it, is a “kleptocracy.”
Dear TW @ 11:42, answer: because your statement, while technically true, is not the whole truth and is calculated to deceive. The “stupid” are those who buy into socialism - a pipe dream.
By Jackie
January 10, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
How many voters were found guilty of voter fraud in the past 20 years? How many military personnel ballots were thrown out in the past election because they were absentee and could not be verified by a n election offical? Our military goes to Iraq to “fight for their freedom” and they are denied their fundamental rights at home. Is that concept upside down?
By jbmlaw
January 10, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
Dear Jackie @ 11:59, thank you for boldly criticizing AlGore’s 2000 attempt to disenfranchise our noble military. Most leftists have turned a blind eye to that effort.
By Abomi Nation
January 10, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
Since our state government is too busy with the important issues of the day like Voter ID, gun laws, a possible challenge to Roe v Wade, Go Fish, predatory lending, Great taxes and Great tunnels, and for the fact that our elected officials here aren’t bright enough to deal with the complex issues anyway, I think its time we seriously consider outsourcing education and transportation to other governments.
We should hire the North Carolina Governor and legislature to govern our schools.
Guatemala also has a third world budget for their highways and would probably trade us some of their management skills for us taking in a few of their citizens.
If we outsource the difficult issues we might have time to sneak in another tax break for Sonny. They could have more pray for rain time too! Go Fish.
By ron
January 10, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this
I have removed my name from the voter rolls in my hometown.I refuse to play that game.It’s either my right to vote,or it isn’t.
By Profit
January 10, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
The media supports the clintons because they like easy stories that write themselves about president zipper, soiled jewish girls, and stained blue dresses. Do you remember how mad Hillary was when she returned to the white house to find Barbara Striesand had spent the night in the Lincoln bedroom? What did she think, that perhaps zipper boy had been there too? What is the attraction of jewish girls and women for zipper boy? Are they just easy targets? or do they offer services over and above the average woman?
By Glenn
January 10, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
Dennis, just returned from a mtg. to find your 10:42. Nearly fell out of my chair. I’m still cracking up.
By sandy
January 10, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
I really wish this were a non-issue, but it really is something that needs to be handled. With illegal immigration running rampant and no resolution for that in sight, something has to be done to ensure these people are kept away from the voting booths. There is nothing in the Constitution nor the Amendments that give illegals that right. Any steps implemented to repel illegals from the polls should be welcomed by all who pay taxes; unless of course you’re looking for those votes to get you elected. Do the Dems want to do anything about the core issue? I think they’re pandering to the illegals for future votes that I am sure the Dems will give them if they have the chance.
By JK
January 10, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
Jackie, according to the fake lawyer man’s formula for a New American Plutocracy, the soldiers’ votes wouldn’t count anyway, since their pay is so low they hardly pay any taxes. Noble in deed and in name, as long as we don’t “rob” fake laywer man of a single dollar for appropriate combat pay or to assuage the mounting bills of wounded, often incapacitated American soldiers.
By Glenn
January 10, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
Hi jbm. Posted a belated response this morning, on the “High-water for McCain” string, to your extravagant praise of Romney’s Jeffersonian intellect. Thought you might get a kick out of treating it as a parlor game.
Abomi,
North Carolina would be an improvement, though they spend a great deal of time assessing learning that doesn’t take place because they spend a great deal of time assessing learning that doesn’t take place…
But what the hell, assessment’s a right useful administrative convenience and it do make for great political fodder. Accountability and all that. Who could be against something called “accountability”? Let us not ask, Who, Whom, and for What and Why? That would spoil the fun.
Pennsylvania would be better; theirs is the only state that understands, as a state government, the implications of new communications technologies. Mexico would be better still, as they have muchisimas ways of doing more with less than we do.
Failing that, I’d say it would make a nice Jeffersonian experiment to hand over the Georgia schools to the Navy Department, which operates one of the world’s largest education systems and almost certainly the most effective one. The US Army would do nicely too, and of course it has the virtue of ubiquity in this state, but I understand they’re a little tied up at the moment.
By B.P.O.E.
January 10, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
Goodness gracious Profit. I guess there is no way for you to have known. You are new here.
Your 12:37 is going to make Jim very mad. First off he’s going to be upset you spelled Barbra’s name wrong.
Then there is the case of the secret crush. Jim has had a crush on Barbra for years. He used to write about her all the time. Then she said all those mean things about Bush at a concert of hers he attended. (Front row!) We really aren’t allowed to mention her name on the blog anymore.
Be easy on him Jim. He didn’t know.
By BS Aplenty
January 10, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
jbmlaw you’ve overlooked the fundamental problem with TW. He’s a graduate of the Atlanta Public School system and doesn’t understand logic. Your attempts to convince a retard like that are certain to fail - but I’m envious of your patience.
By The Prophet
January 10, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
Primaries have secondary motives.
Polls are fetal votes.
Laws are Freedom’s vetos.
By getalife
January 10, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
Rep. John Doolittle to Retire.
Kerry disses Edwards spewing Obama will unite the country.
Well, his party is united with the gop. That is the problem.
By GaVoter
January 10, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
I wonder what the word freedom does mean to different people. It is certainly a matter of perspective. How much freedom is any one willing to give up? Maybe that depends on how much one gives up at any one time? I could use legislator’s and governmental administrator’s salaries and benefits, for example, as an analogue.
There once was a time when these government jobs were not considered so desirable. County commissioners and managers, state senators and legislators, etc., were not really thought of as positions to aspire to during the “bring your parent/job to school day” when I was in the classroom. Granted, there was always some appeal to the Presidency (said with an awe). Whoever heard of anyone describing these jobs as high paying and prestigious. Not so any longer. Even I must admit that the prospect of taking a seminar on finances, in conjunction with proving my skills with a calculator, and applying for a 6-figure county-CEO-manager position has its appeal — especially after you throw in those other taxpayer benefits. Not that I have anything against anyone earning an honest living mind you. It just seems, I guess, odd that so many government positions have taken on the aura of big business executive positions over the past 8+ years. Yet it has happened so gradually and incrementally that most people think nothing of it. What brings it to light for me is when I hear that the national average household income is ~$45k and our LITTLE county’s manager gets over $85k salary and that doesn’t even include the benefits. This is not right in my mind and yet I feel as though I have no real freedom to do anything substantive about it. So, I’ll blog and complain. I’ll vote. Life goes on.
By Dennis
January 10, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this
By Glenn January 10, 2008 12:41 PM Dennis, just returned from a mtg. to find your 10:42. Nearly fell out of my chair. I’m still cracking up.”
During college, and after my time in the USAF (62/66), I was the first student in my department to grow a beard - Lincoln type, neatly trimmed. I am a grown man with family, and I’m asked if I would be “loyal to the department and cut off your beard? We haven’t had any trouble here so far.”
I won first place in the vocal auditions for the annual concerto program, but lost it because of that beard. The head of the department said to me, “You might have won that if you did not have your beard.”
We must all remain a loyal member of the crew, even when the ship is sinking - “There is no hole in the bottom of the ship.”
And, Godd_amed, I see on here, the examples of that as the country slowly disintegrates.
You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.
By getalife
January 10, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
As Lt. Gen. Russel Honore prepares to retire from the Army and hand over his command Friday, he says he wants to spend the rest of his life creating a “culture of preparedness” to prevent another post-disaster disaster.
“There’s an attitude everywhere else that people are smarter than they are in New Orleans and in Mississippi. They’re not,” Honore, 60, said at his office at Fort Gillem outside Atlanta. “What happened in New Orleans could have happened anywhere on the eastern seaboard.”
Lost another great General.
By DebbieDoRight
January 10, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
Best Quote of the day (so far):
Anyhow, I was real sorry to see everybody ganging up on Sister Dusty yesterday. These libruls think you have to have a big brain to argue on this blog. Well, Sister Dusty is proof it ain’t so.
That RedNeck must be a very wise man!!
By deegee
January 10, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
sandy@ 12:52, just because Duncan Hunter and Bob Dornan say that hordes of illegal aliens are rounded up and bused to voting polls doesn’t make it true. There is no substance to the claim that elections are won or lost because of votes cast by illegal aliens. Illegal aliens are typically disengaged from politics and cynical of politicians. The events of July, 2007 with respect to the failure of immigration reform in the senate certainly haven’t done anything to raise politics in the esteem of illegal immigrants. I will admit that among legal permanent residents there is a surge underway in US citizenship applications. This is in anticipation of the elections in 2008. As US citizens their votes are entirely legal, and they ain’t voting republican.
By jbmlaw
January 10, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
Dear JK @ 12:55, I don’t think you read my posts too closely. I don’t mind seeing my tax dollars funding military efforts, as that government-sanctioned killing benefits all of us. I simply object to Robin Hood receiving legal sanction. And I would have no objection letting our noble military choose all of our leaders, without input from the rest of us – they know, better than any of us, what needs to be done to make this a safe world.
Dear Glenn @ 12:56, great survey, and in all fairness I suppose we ought to include four ultimately unsuccessful presidents (noble failures, if you will) with high IQs – Wilson, Nixon, Carter, and Clinton. And the all-too-brief Garfield, Odie’s pal.
IQ is not everything, and perhaps you have noted my prior writings admiring the fox-hedgehog argument. Give me a hedgehog, like Reagan, anytime. No Reagans out there this year. Everyone is too clever by half.
By Profit
January 10, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
Unrequited love, how dare she. Under my system of Feudalism, Babbs will not have that option. The wench is yours Jim, do with her as you please (everyone else has).
By jbmlaw
January 10, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
Dear Dennis @ 11:22, apologies, I missed your argument, and you offer a good one. And I will sign on with the validity of your slippery-slope essay. Every time I hop onto a plane, I hear our friend Southern Democrat railing, correctly, about Leviathan. I will now add your voice to those I hear, and I agree that you are not paranoid. (I’ll acknowledge that “voting” is not one place where I hear that, as the mere act gives succor to “the system.” Why do I envy Burt Lancaster’s character in “Atlantic City?”)
By Dusty
January 10, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
getalife@ 1:27
I agree that Gen Honore is an honorable man. Hate to see him retire. He took the shambles in New Orleans and made something work. I realize he will do well at teaching others to prepare for disasters.
Maybe you could get him to run for Mayor of NO or Governor in Louisiana?
Bush made a fine choice getting Honore to straighten out things at home.
By chuck
January 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Only one problem with this statement:
By TruthoftheMatter
January 10, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Folks, the wingnuts have killed the Republican party. All of their plots and schemes will be for naught for decades to come.
The one factor that you failed to take into account in your calculations is that ALL WILL BE FORGOTTEN AFTER ONE TERM OF A DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT.
By chuck
January 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Only one problem with this statement:
By TruthoftheMatter
January 10, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Folks, the wingnuts have killed the Republican party. All of their plots and schemes will be for naught for decades to come.
The one factor that you failed to take into account in your calculations is that ALL WILL BE FORGOTTEN AFTER ONE TERM OF A DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT.
By chuck
January 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Only one problem with this statement:
By TruthoftheMatter
January 10, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Folks, the wingnuts have killed the Republican party. All of their plots and schemes will be for naught for decades to come.
The one factor that you failed to take into account in your calculations is that ALL WILL BE FORGOTTEN AFTER ONE TERM OF A DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT.
By chuck
January 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Only one problem with this statement:
By TruthoftheMatter
January 10, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Folks, the wingnuts have killed the Republican party. All of their plots and schemes will be for naught for decades to come.
The one factor that you failed to take into account in your calculations is that ALL WILL BE FORGOTTEN AFTER ONE TERM OF A DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT.
By chuck
January 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Only one problem with this statement:
By TruthoftheMatter
January 10, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Folks, the wingnuts have killed the Republican party. All of their plots and schemes will be for naught for decades to come.
The one factor that you failed to take into account in your calculations is that ALL WILL BE FORGOTTEN AFTER ONE TERM OF A DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT.
By chuck
January 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Only one problem with this statement:
By TruthoftheMatter
January 10, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Folks, the wingnuts have killed the Republican party. All of their plots and schemes will be for naught for decades to come.
The one factor that you failed to take into account in your calculations is that ALL WILL BE FORGOTTEN AFTER ONE TERM OF A DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT.
By chuck
January 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Only one problem with this statement:
By TruthoftheMatter
January 10, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Folks, the wingnuts have killed the Republican party. All of their plots and schemes will be for naught for decades to come.
The one factor that you failed to take into account in your calculations is that ALL WILL BE FORGOTTEN AFTER ONE TERM OF A DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT.
By chuck
January 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Only one problem with this statement:
By TruthoftheMatter
January 10, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Folks, the wingnuts have killed the Republican party. All of their plots and schemes will be for naught for decades to come.
The one factor that you failed to take into account in your calculations is that ALL WILL BE FORGOTTEN AFTER ONE TERM OF A DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT.
By chuck
January 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Only one problem with this statement:
By TruthoftheMatter
January 10, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Folks, the wingnuts have killed the Republican party. All of their plots and schemes will be for naught for decades to come.
The one factor that you failed to take into account in your calculations is that ALL WILL BE FORGOTTEN AFTER ONE TERM OF A DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT.
By chuck
January 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Only one problem with this statement:
By TruthoftheMatter
January 10, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Folks, the wingnuts have killed the Republican party. All of their plots and schemes will be for naught for decades to come.
The one factor that you failed to take into account in your calculations is that ALL WILL BE FORGOTTEN AFTER ONE TERM OF A DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT.
By Pop Quiz!
January 10, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
Which form of government is advocated by the following statement:
“I would have no objection letting our noble military choose all of our leaders, without input from the rest of us – they know, better than any of us, what needs to be done to make this a safe world.”
By upchuck
January 10, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
thanks for the spew.
By Redneck Convert
January 10, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
Somebody get that boy chucks hand off of the Send key before the computer runs out of room.
By Dusty
January 10, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
Another pop quiz…
Which blogger here has a son currently serving in the US Navy in the PRESENT war??
What blogger has to read all the anti-war, anti-military, anti-American posts by liberals right here on this blog while his son is serving in the military?
Cut-n-runners, go play with your white flags. That is all you are capable of doing.
By Senator Craig (REPUBLICAN)
January 10, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Dear Dusty’s son, tap tap tappity taptap tap?
By Profit
January 10, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Oh Dusty, did your long tall son join the navy recently? Some of us have records on you going back years.
By Dusty
January 10, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
RedNeck @2:38
If you would remove both hands from the keyboard, you could eat your chicken weiners better.
Thanks for your previous support. I get a kick out of all the liberal complaints, the ignorant namecalling and your counterfeit country piece.
Keep up the fun. It makes libs happy and they don’t have much to be happy about these days. Ooowhee! Wait until 2008. They’ll go crazier than a blind mule.
By jbmlaw
January 10, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
Dear Dusty @ 2:48, thanks, but I don’t pay any attention to the leftists. The Ensign and I talk regularly about the leftists and their moronic screeds, and he says the guys mostly just mock their ignorance. If he is not offended or distressed, there is no intelligent reason I should be offended.
By Pop Quiz!
January 10, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
Dusty, sorry but your answer is incorrect. Also, it need not be phrased in the form of a question.
Anyone else?
By chuck
January 10, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
My gosh. I must have had a button stick or something. I have accidentally double posted before but I think this is the first time I have ever had a nonuple post. I apologize.
By jbmlaw
January 10, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
One more note, Dusty @ 2:48, I suppose I should acknowledge that Mrs. jbmlaw sees the matter differently, and takes personally every slight delivered against the military by the loons. That’s her baby they’re talking about!
By Dusty
January 10, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
To one who wants to meet Senator Craig , Profit and other “dull tools”
I have four sons and not one in the Navy. Dingbats! You don’t comprehend too well. Wake up!
I was not referring to my family’s military service. You yourself don’t have any military records, do you? That figures.
By Dennis
January 10, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
By jbmlaw January 10, 2008 2:19 PM “Why do I envy Burt Lancaster’s character in “Atlantic City?”)”
“She made him become what he always wanted to be - a lover, a hero, a rich man…and a killer!”
jbmlaw, You can have three out of the four. :) And since it’s a “free country” you can choose.
You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.
By jbmlaw
January 10, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
And one more note, dear Dusty @ 2:48, for the sake of full honesty, I need to disclose that the Ensign is not drawing combat pay. He does not expect to be deployed into the field sooner than the middle of this year, at which time he will be a Lt JG. So technically I don’t yet have a personal stake in our war.
By chuck
January 10, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
jbmlaw, from all right thinking Americans, please thank your son for his service to our country. His is our hero.
By chuck
January 10, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
jbmlaw, from all right thinking Americans, please thank your son for his service to our country. He is our hero.
By Senator Craig (REPUBLICAN)
January 10, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
Relax Dusty, no need to hyper-ventilate, a firm but simple tap tap would have sufficed.
By Profit
January 10, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
DUSTY: DOES WAFFEN SS COUNT?
By Pop Quiz!
January 10, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
Would the person who made the statement like to tell the other students what form of government is advocated by the following statement:
“I would have no objection letting our noble military choose all of our leaders, without input from the rest of us – they know, better than any of us, what needs to be done to make this a safe world.”
Or is this person backing away from his own words?
By Curious Observer
January 10, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
Some of you great patriotic conservatives might note that a few of us low-life liberals have hauled military rifles around in highly dangerous places—while some of you were still filling up diapers, in fact. Regardless, this is the United States of America, and every citizen has the right to express an opinion without being accused of treason.
By Jack
January 10, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
jbmlaw. I disagree. If you even think he will be deployed, you have a stake. Sending good thoughts to him and all of our soldiers here and abroad.
By Dusty
January 10, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
jbmlaw@3:04
Thanks for your clear view. I do not have the patience. My feelings are more in line with Mrs.jbmlaw.
Best wishes for you and your family.
By Jack
January 10, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
You have the patience of a Saint.
By Dusty
January 10, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
Curious Observer@3:20
You are the only one who has mentioned “treason” and diapers.
I bet you really enjoyed having civilians “throw off” on you while you were serving in the military. Right? Or were you drafted?
I gather you are not Profit or phony Sen Craig. They would not like to mention THEIR military service. Military service???What????
By Senator Craig (REPUBLICAN)
January 10, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
Military service? How dare you talk back to me Dusty. Don’t you realize?
My son is driving home from work today. There are 45,000 traffic deaths a year.
HOW DARE YOU
By Curious Observer
January 10, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
Dusty @3:39
No, I didn’t like being called a baby-killer when I returned from Asia, nor did I enjoy or appreciate the criticism at the time.
Mature reflection later led me to believe that my critics had the right to reject the war. It did not make them traitors, even if the target of their anger was poorly identified.
I will not hesitate to be critical of the military when I believe such criticism is warranted. For instance, I recently observed a video shot from a military vehicle as it traveled through the streets of Baghdad. Instead of going around traffic, the vehicle repeatedly struck and wrecked cars ahead of it, pushing them out of the way. I counted 28 cars before I stopped watching, many with obvious damage. I submit that such behavior is inimical to our interests. It is not the kind of behavior that engenders fondness of us among Iraqis, and it is likely to prolong our involvement in that country.
And if you are really interested, I can tell you that I joined the military right out of high school at age 17, and I did so voluntarily.
And I will also tell you that if any fellow Marine, including SSgt Wuterich, is found guilty of recklessly killing innocent civilians, I will be the first to support a life sentence. Such things are a disgrace to any honorable veteran or active-duty serviceman.
You may feel free to sneer some more now.
By Dusty
January 10, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
Phony Sen Craig@3:45
You’ve lost it. We are talking about military service and obviously, you don’t have any.
If you are trying to change the subject, try Voter ID.
Now I have to get busy.
PS, joker: That Sen. Craig line is getting very stale. U need 2 try sumthing frzer 2moro.
By Dusty
January 10, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this
Curious Observer,3:53
I have never “sneered” at the military. You are doing it now.
We all support justice and the military does too. Otherwise you would not have known about Sgt. Wuterich.
You have let your liberal politics take over your loyalties. What is that thing about Marines supporting Marines? Not in your case. You are looking for ways to find them guilty of crimes, even on newscasts.
You are still the only one who has mentioned treason here and no one is muffling your opinions.
Bye now.
By Tom
January 10, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
Ya gotta love jbmlaw, advocating the Burma-style military dictatorship that our beloved Founding Fathers envisioned and sacrificed so much for.
By Sen Vitter (REPUBLICAN)
January 10, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
Bye Dusty.
Have a SAFE drive home.
By getalife
January 10, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
He has been approached to run for Mayor crusty.
A wingnut is governor.
Try reading something, he is going in the private sector to make money and is talking to your governor.
By getalife
January 10, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
BTW, here is one of his lines just for you crusty.
“Don’t get stuck on stupid.”
By getalife
January 10, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
“Don’t get stuck on stupid” like I got stuck on my boyfriend’s c@ck last night.
It was gratifying to say the least.
By GaVoter
January 10, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
We don’t need more discussion on Voter ID. We do need pay for performance. Take all pay from politicians, give it to the teachers and kill two birds with one stone.
By The Prophet
January 10, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
Starving yourself to death is exactly like stuffing yourself till you explode.
A low carb diet is like starting a food fight and there’s only cut up lettuce.
I am the prophet. I know all. I see all.
By jbmlaw
January 10, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
Dear JK @ 3:20, where did you get the strange idea I was backing away from my words? I would love to see the country run by the guys voted on by our noble military.
Dear Chuck, Jack, and Dusty @ various times, the Ensign is my hero also. We appreciate your good thoughts for him and for his comrades.
By Glenn
January 10, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this
@@,
You’d like to see gubmint get outta the edbiz. That would be one very good prospect. Another might be for the gubmint to get into the edbiz, as it’s been in some biz other than ed for a long, long time. What biz dat iz, iz another thing, another blog, another day. But it ain’t education, and it ain’t pretty.
By Glenn
January 10, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
@@,
You’d like to see the government (us) get out of the education business. That’s a fine prospect.
Another fine prospect would be for government (us) to go into the education business, as they haven’t been in that business for a very long time. What business they have been in, is a story for another time, of course. But that business is not education, and it is not pretty.
I don’t mean this as pedantry, but as diatribe: calling that crap “education” doesn’t make it education any more than calling the Stalinist empire the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics makes it any of those things.
By Vent-til-ator
January 11, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
Anyone who claims Islam is a peaceful religion is either: 1-Illiterate 2-Brain dead or 3-Working for al-Qaeda’s PR organization.