Home > Thinking Right > Archives > 2007 > December > 31 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USTax, spend? Sky shouldn’t be the limit
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
The year of the GREAT tax debate dawns. For me and for the rest of Georgia, it’s a hard sell.
Republicans who consider themselves fiscal conservatives should be exceedingly wary of creating a tax structure that enables the Big Spenders to grow government easily and painlessly. Expanding Georgia’s sales tax to services without planning to eliminate some other revenue source — the corporate and/or individual income tax, for example — is to make Republicans the design team for financing the welfare state.
Georgia should, instead, be applying the cap to state government spending that House Speaker Glenn Richardson, the GREAT plan’s author, proposed initially for city and county governments. Versions of the cap have been floating around the Capitol. One, in fact, has already passed the state Senate. Generally such caps have flexibility built in to account for hard times, but otherwise they attempt to hold state spending to inflation, plus population growth.
A cap is a better idea for state government than for local since the state is more mature. North of Atlanta, for example, a cap would have been a lousy idea because, for a brief spell, locals need to spend out the wazoo to build the roads, parks, fire houses, schools and other infrastructure needed to accommodate rapid growth. But when cities and counties mature, as is the case with Cobb, DeKalb or Fulton, a spending cap is desirable. It alerts residents to the growth of government.
Swapping a portion of the property tax for higher taxes on consumption may be good politics, but it’s not good policy. Except for medical services and services provided to businesses, virtually everything else Georgians buy would be taxed at 4 percent: real estate transactions, banking, memberships, personal services, travel, moving and storage, real property and others. In return, homeowners would get a dollar-for-dollar tax credit for the school portion of their property, and motor vehicle owners would get a tax credit for both schools and local government. The tax exemption on groceries would be eliminated.
It’s not clear that the reduction in property taxes would be of net benefit to many homeowners, since they’d lose a deduction on federal income taxes while paying a greater sum in sales taxes. Now one or the other can be deducted, but not both.
Under the proposed GREAT plan, with some limited exceptions, all property owners could be freed of the obligation to support schools, depending on revenues.
Another tax of at least $10 per vehicle — this to finance a statewide trauma network with a starting cost of $100 million — would be levied back on vehicles under another bill being proposed.
Looking at it from a Big Government financing perspective, Georgia would eliminate neither the property tax on real estate — which I’m not advocating — nor on motor vehicles. And for the first time, Republicans propose to levy a tax on services, an idea that has been floated by Democrats for years with no takers.
If you’re the least bit skeptical that elected officials have the discipline to exercise spending restraint, this particular swap should raise red flags. The old property-tax structure for real estate and vehicles is still in place, but now sales taxes will be extended to new territory. A barrier is down. A wall is coming down, the wall between goods and services for tax purposes.
That’s a major leap. Reality is, as we’ve seen in Congress, spending restraint is not a characteristic of either party. On that, Republicans can’t be trusted any more than Democrats. They need walls. They need ceilings. They need barriers that at least cause the public to notice when government is expanding.
Tax reforms should favor simplicity. This one would make tax collectors of all service providers. And, to have a notion of how much they’re paying in taxes, consumers would have to keep track of every purchase they make. Property taxes may be reprehensible to some, but at least they’re simple.
Fiscal conservatives should cut taxes. This one shifts.
Tax policies should stimulate economic activity. This one’s stimulative potential eludes me.
Richardson’s GREAT plan will attract support from those who believe they’ll save more on property taxes than they spend on consumption. But in this instance good politics and good tax policy are not the same.
Permalink | Comments (51) | Post your comment | Categories: Column
Comments
By Craig also
January 1, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this
Brilliant column, Jim. (Since I agree with your analysis, of course…)
By RealRep
January 1, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this
Happy New Year!
Mike salutes Mr. Wooten for his conservative stance.
Mike invites all to tune in to Leno tomorrow for a great night of fun. It’s going to be a heck of a year for real Republicans!
A vote for Giuliani is a vote for Hillary.
Huckabee ‘08
By Evelyn Baker
January 1, 2008 8:28 AM | Link to this
You cant just say it’s brilliant. you have to say why. You have to include some indication that you understood the piece. Or everyone, craig, will assume that you’re a dittohead, and they’d be right, unless you come up with a 25 words or less analysis that both sums up Jim’s column and offers insights of your own.
Otherwise stfu. My comment will appear soon, and it will rock your world. Vogue. (I love that word).
By Evelyn Baker
January 1, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this
Huckabee said that he wishes he was “that smart” when he was confronted with the bookshelf/cross that appear behind him as he spoke in a campaign ad/sermon. What the interviewer failed to ask Huckabee was about the miniature statues of roman soldiers with whips in various poses of scouraging which were inside the shelves of the bookcase, clearly visible, some of them in clay-mation motion, also, I’d like to know how the image of a man hanging from a tree with 30 pieces of silver falling out of his pockets could have possibly been unwittingly added to that ad. Was that a rooster crowing three times during the ad? Listen carefully, you can just hear it.
Huckabee is unelectable because his elixir is snake oil.
By Another taxpayer
January 1, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this
OK. So I posted this on a political insider blog last week. It still seems appropriate.
Perhaps there is a way to make this fair tax thing work. But first I need to have a few questions answered.
1) Will the Fair tax eliminate property tax?
2) If property tax were eliminated, would we then have the Fairly Great Tax?
3) If we had the Fairly Great Tax, would it be fairly great enough to make US into the fairly greatest socialist republic of all time?
4) Would we need a Healthcare Tax to cover some of the things that the Fairly Great Tax won’t cover?
5) What about an Alternative Minimum Fairly Great Tax? I’ll bet there would be debate from Mr. Saxby Chambliss on that issue.
By Evelyn Baker
January 1, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this
Richardson’s tax proposal? It’s a good plan, not a great plan. Besides, the assembly wont discuss it seriously. The assembly will torpedo this thing before it gets off the dock(et). Shelve it, and let Huckabee talk in front of it in case anyone forgot he’s our new national mohel pledged to cut taxes. Political Foreskin cringes at the very thought.
By ron
January 1, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this
Jim,Should a tax on services be initiated,keep a sharp eye on exemptions.They’ll tell a story unto themselves.
How can anyone believe Huckabee's cross story?Those ads are pored over by professionals to make certain that anything in the background is'nt detrimental to the candidate.Only if one wants to believe Huckabee's story would it be true.By Dusty
January 1, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this
Happy New Year to all of you!! The sun is shining. Now that’s a good omen for the year, don’t you think?
As to the subject…add new taxes??? No way, anyway or anyhow. Jim is correct. NO NEW TAXES. How does that sound, EviePoFoNokie? (That’s a new ID for you know who.)
By Evelyn Baker
January 1, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this
Another Taxpayer: Yes, no, no, yes, and the tax plan that would most suit you is the Minimum Official Revenue Option Needs tax.
By Another taxpayer
January 1, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this
Mr. Wooten is trying to describe some of these stumpers as fiscal conservatives or republicans. I don’t believe there is such a thing anymore. You see, years ago all the fiscal conservatives were killed off in a bad made for TV western. But, the public still needed a two party system in order to make them believe that “choice” was actually a practiced word. So, a plot developed around a new character and a conservative monkey that was always on his back. Ever since then, Democrats have tried to shake this monkey but it just won’t let go. Well, once these new tax plans are put into practice, I think we can finally say it’s bedtime for the monkey on the back.
By LMAO
January 1, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this
No new taxes sounds fine to me. I live in Atlanta. It doesn’t take me 2 hours to get home. We are about to see some classic Georgia politics. Everyone knows something is going to have to be done about traffic in the suburbs. Remember though, NO NEW TAXES! LOL.
No new taxes! LMAO
By Another taxpayer
January 1, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
Ah yes. And Evelyn Baker claims to be a smartas*. Who could argue.
By Jim Wooten
January 1, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
Happy New Year, Dusty, ron, Evelyn, Craig, RealRep, @@ and others to come. Thanks for starting the new year here.
It’s a great day to see the mountains so my greens, peas and jowl are likely to be prepared today by the Dillard House — though I’m still determined to cook collards as suggested by JK yesterday (I’m not sure about nine hours). I repeat JK’s post here:
“For healthy collard greens whose taste can�t be beat, skip the hog fat and use olive oil instead. (And tear out the stemmy parts when you wash �em.) Toss in a little minced garlic, a couple tablespoons of vinegar, and plenty of salt. Cook the ever lovin dog poo out of them, stirring often. About nine hours should do it � they get sweeter as they cook � so start early. It�s the PERFECT food!
“P.S. Chop some scallions and throw them in a bowl of red wine vinegar and put em in the fridge. Spoon cold, crunchy onions over steaming hot collards & peas! No one will try to kiss you while you�re watching football! Haha!”
By Curious Observer
January 1, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
The GREAT plan is yet another scam designed to increase the tax burden borne by common people and to relieve the comfortable. It is merely another version of the national flat tax and other dreams of the Boortzes of the world.
It would tax almost all expenditures. Guess which income class has to spend almost everything for survival. Now guess which income class has to spend only a small portion of income, with the rest going to investments. Finally, guess which of the two classes would have the higher proportion of income free of tax.
I’m sick of the special pleading of the supporters of such a plan, including libertarians, inveterate tax agency haters, and the well-heeled. They are even willing to support the centralization of state tax collection and distribution—a big no-no for them in ordinary circumstances—in order to see the plan implemented. If they want it that badly, you can bet it will be good for them and very, very bad for you.
By Another taxpayer
January 1, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
Dillard House is a good place to gorge. Wear a minimum of one size larger clothes and walk a lot afterward. Don’t bother riding the horses. The ride only packs it down — it doesn’t burn it off. It’s a short drive on up to North Carolina where you can take in some great walks and views of waterfalls with water flowing over them. Don’t waste your time over at Cloudland Canyon (on the NW corner of GA) if you just want to see the falls. Someone turned off the spigots.
By Dusty
January 1, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this
Now, Jim, JK’s recipe is just fine. But…who wants to miss kisses when all snuggled up in front of the fire watching a football game?
Now serious (dull) football watchers remind me that it’s not Valentine’s Day. OK..
By Jim Wooten
January 1, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
Good point, Dusty. And thanks, Another taxpayer, on the suggestion. I will drive on up to North Carolina and find a place to walk some of it off.
By Thinkin' Out Loud
January 1, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
Mr. Wooten wrote, “…to have a notion of how much they’re paying in taxes, consumers would have to keep track of every purchase they make.”
This statement is entirely correct and should be emphasized. With income taxes, we can pull out any tax return to see how much we paid in taxes in any given year to the penny.
In contrast, sales taxes are not transparent. Part of the reason that sales taxes are popular are that they feel less painful since their spread out over multiple transactions (death by a thousand cuts). If most people knew the percentage of income that their household paid in sales taxes each year, especially compared to those around them (the working poor pay a larger proportion than the middle and the middle pay a larger portion than the wealthy), then they’d fight them like the plague.
Sales taxes lack transparency and are inherently unfair and counterproductive. The fair, transparent and productive way for us to tax ourselves (via our state representatives) is to avoid sales taxes altoghether (essentially tax hikes for the poor and middle class) and focus primarily on the income tax to generate revenue.
Happy New Year!
By Luckoduh
January 1, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
How about a little kiss, Dusty? (camera to Bluto pawing Olive Oil on the couch at Popeye’s house).
Scene: Popeye is boiling his New Years Day greens but taking his time to get JK’s recipe perfect. He searches frantically through his herb rack for the umlauts.
Come on, just one leetle keese…. “POPEYE. HELP POPEYE!”
Not now, Dusty, I’m making my greens. Where did you hide the umlauts? Cant you put anything back where it goes? You’re the worst homemaker….
New Years Day was grim and ended in a restraining order over at Dusty’s that year….good thing her life really is a cartoon, her being a clown and all…..
By Another Taxpayer
January 1, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
Trust me (I said those two words. Help.) Thinkin, the first time you forked over 23% on a new house purchase of say $200,000 or on a typical major surgery of $300,000, you will remember it. Remember the Alamo. Remember Pearl Harbor. Remember 911….Remember the Fairly Great Tax..
By Dennis
January 1, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
Mr. Wooten writes, “Reality is, as we’ve seen in Congress, spending restraint is not a characteristic of either party. On that, Republicans can’t be trusted any more than Democrats. They need walls. They need ceilings. They need barriers that at least cause the public to notice when government is expanding.”
Pardon me, Mr. Wooten, but, D..M!, I can’t believe you said that!
You sound just like those of us, who have complained about the Bush administration borrowing money from foreign countries to finance the Iraq war and to “expand” the large tax breaks for the already rich and for corporations.
You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.
p.s. Only 385 days left until George W. Bush is history!
By Redneck Convert
January 1, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
Happy New Year everybody.
There was a couple humdingers of a fight down at Billy Bob’s last night. Just a few good old boys feeling their oats. It was a great way to bring in the New Year. Billy Bob hisself was running people home so they wouldn’t get pulled over by the cops that set up the roadblock close by. I got to figure out how to get my pickup home. Maybe Joe Bill or Jim Earl will give me a ride. A redneck without his pickup is just a sad sight.
I’m with jbmlaw about taxes and everything else about guvmint. Just get rid of all guvmint except for the army. All we get from changing taxes is more taxes. They could raise the tax any time by saying its just a penny. If they change it now we really notice it.
At the same time it would be fun to watch the county folks go to the capital begging for money. The state people would really have the county folks tender parts in a vice. They wouldn’t be able to raise money by taxing folks trailers and pickups no more.
Anyway, I got a bad headache for some reason and my mouth tastes awful. Maybe some turnip greens and blackeye peas and ham hocks and grits will take care of it. And cornbread. I’m really looking forward to seeing the Rev. Huckabee win in Iowa and NH this coming week. Us Southreners will have a leg up on getting our way.
Leastwise, I hope that librul McCain or Giuliani don’t win. Its bad enough a whole bunch of the Northren gays waited till midnight last night to get kind of married through a Civil Union. Which is just another way of saying marriage. When the Rev. Huckabee gets elected we’ll put a stop to that bunk.
Well, the blackeye peas is about boiling over so I got to go. Have a good year everybody. Except the libruls.
By Craig also
January 1, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
the “fairly great tax” - I like it - err, I like the name anyway.
You’re not the only one counting the days, Dennis, I think even another strange one like the Huckster would be an improvement.
Happy new year Jim - and thanks for the recipe.
By Luckoduh
January 1, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
If you say, “..dont have 2B blind not to C it, just a moron 2 deny it”, one more time…….
What the hell does it mean? You’re using a triple negative, I dont know if you’re saying that blind people are morons, or that moronic people are blind, or if Brittany Spears is fat….whatever.
S…TF….UP!
By TW
January 1, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
Happy New Year, Mr. Wooten. While I disagree for your basis for disagreeing with Richardson, I nonetheless admire you taking a stand. A much welcome break from the Republican kneeling that has all but killed the party over the last seven years. Your line of logic this morning, however, has confused me in this sense. You object to the tax maneuver because you are skeptical about the growth potential of the alternative proposal. Along these lines, why did you never show any skeptisism for the unwanted terroristic fruits the Iraq war will undoubtably bear? Terrorism is a manifestation of hate, and if for no other reasoning than that expressed by you in your article today, you should have shared concerns over the consequences of our debacle in Iraq. Much like the GREAT tax will undoubtably excite the ignorant in the near term and burn their backside when it comes to fruition, the same will surely be true of our enthusiastic mistep with regards to Iraq.
By Dennis
January 1, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
By Craig January 1, 2008 11:10 AM “You’re not the only one counting the days, Dennis, I think even another strange one like the Huckster would be an improvement.”
Got’cha.
An honest election/government would have a spot to mark “none of the above.”
But both political parties and government are afraid of that.
The results would require them to become more honest.
You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.
By Luke-o-D'oh
January 1, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
Oh, yeah, dennis, you reall got him that time. Udont have 2b a 23-point clinical criteria match for catatonic-mongoloid to blow yourself, just a circle-jerk du soleil stunt-double to actually do it.
moron.
By jm
January 1, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
Happy New Year Mr. Wooten. I am not a big fan of collards, I inherited my Ohio born mother’s palette, but JK’s recipes screams out to be cooked in a crock pot or other slow cooker.
As for fiscal conservatives, before any tinkering is done with the tax code, I want to see if they have the stones to cut spending first. Cutting taxes is easy to propose but cutting spending …
By Glenn
January 1, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
Yay, jm! My sentiments exactly. They haven’t earned their chops as fiscal reformers UNTIL they show how thoughtfully and thoroughly they can make the top spin faster with less fiscal effort. Otherwise they’re just throwing less good money after bad, and accepting a liberal Rube Goldberg device as though it were revealed truth. You’re abso-effing-lutely right: they are going to look like the boobs they are for their brainless timid cart-pushing.
Oh, and Happy New Year.
By Jax
January 1, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
Our republic is 220 years old. Spending has never been cut. Ever.
The money always goes to weapons that dont work. That’s how we’ve never suffered a coup: the army has tried to take over, but when the time came, their guns jammed. I am having a great success selling my weapons systems to our government. I’ve got a contract for 14 million assault rifles that fire backwards. If you cant beat the Bush Administration, then join ‘em.
By Glenn
January 1, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
Happy Bloomin’ New Year, everyone!
May it bloom and thrive for you, and enchant you month after month.
(All of you, eccept for that spiteful schoolmarm, Mizz Evelyn.)
[Rudy 08!]
By Evelyn Baker
January 1, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
Well!
By Glenn
January 1, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
By my count, 9 sentences, 8 lies. You may have outdone yourself.
L. Ron would be proud.
By Another taxpayer
January 1, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
Cutting expenses is definitely a good thing. It complements cutting taxes so well. I especially like voluntary government tax cuts - or are they expense cuts — because they make such interesting reality TV shows:
You QUIT
NO, YOU QUIT.
I just resign myself to listen to the quibbling.
By Another taxpayer
January 1, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
Cutting expenses is definitely a good thing. It complements cutting taxes so well. I especially like voluntary government tax cuts - or are they expense cuts — because they make such interesting reality TV shows:
You QUIT
NO, YOU QUIT.
I just resign myself to listen to the quibbling.
By Evelyn Baker
January 1, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
By my count, seven trolls, seven morons.
By Evelyn Baker
January 1, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
Florida/Michigan game a hoot!
By getalife
January 1, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
And now for some really great news to start the new year
By B.P.O.E.
January 1, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
(((((Hola amigos, I’m starting a new, New Years food tradition. Something that will surely pizz off the local rednecks. Lola.
New Year Tacos. Thats right tacos. Lola. We’ll tell the Gringos that eating tacos on New Years day is a Mexican tradition. Not just any taco either, each taco should have pinto beans to insure good luck! Lola. I like my pinto beans cooked with lard and ham. Lola, for extra-super-luck. Lola.
Paublo from Guajuannetto County)))))
This is from my neighborhood newsletter, there’s alot at stake here. Our civilization is at risk. (AND ITS L-O-L.)
By Evelyn Baker
January 1, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
Nobody’s going to click on your virus link, you horrid troll.
By ron
January 1, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
I can’t help but notice that everyone is getting along better in 2008.What gives?Elect Huckabee.Pasta ‘n Chief.Who needs a President?
By ron
January 1, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
I can’t help but notice that everyone is getting along better in 2008.What gives?Elect Huckabee.Pasta ‘n Chief.Who needs a President?
By ron
January 1, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
I can’t help but notice that everyone is getting along better in 2008.What gives?Elect Huckabee.Pasta ‘n Chief.Who needs a President?
By zeke
January 1, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
NO TAX IS A GOOD TAX!!! The most obvious way to fairly change the tax system is to eliminate all property, ad valorem, income, accomodations, prepared foods, car rental and etc. Find the current revenue levels of fed, state, county and city government and levy a consumption tax to match and then by law force the governments to operate within those revenue levels, NO DEFICIT SPENDING EVER! ONLY EXCEPTION OF WAR!
By Evelyn Baker
January 1, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
If you’re missing this florida michigan game, you’re gay.
What a game!
By jbmlaw
January 1, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
Good afternoon and Happy New Year all. I’ll cast my vote with jm @ 12:04 and Glenn shortly thereafter. Taxes are never the problem, spending is. But Ron @ 3:42, I’ll see what I can do to restore the normal tone here tomorrow.
By @@
January 1, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
Jim:
It’s probably too late to tell you to sweat those greens before you cook ‘em. It enhances the flavor like reducing a stock. You don’t have to cook ‘em as long either.
On second thought it may be wise to sterilize JK’s greens since they’ve got poo in ‘em.
Just kidding JK! I’ve got a friend who cooks hers exactly like you suggested. If there’s poo in hers, I sure can’t taste it.
zeke’s tax plan sounds great to me. I want to be able to control what I spend and what they spend. I’m already doing my part. I’m waiting on them to do theirs…
and waiting…
and waiting…and
By gafarmer
January 1, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
Happy New Year to all!! The greens issue can be solved. If they don’t have salt and pork cooked in them and pepper sauce sprinkled on them they are are Yankee substitutes. Mr. Wooten, you were raised far enough south to know this is true and that the appropriate bread to serve with them is corn pone.
By Grand Poobah
January 1, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
you rang, @@?
By Grand Poobah
January 1, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
I have ultimate authority, being the Grand Poobah, and all.
It’s good to be the Grand Poobah.
USC is just always so tuff. You know? What a program they’ve had there for decades. It’s the land of football, truly. I decree that USC is football heaven. So it is blogged, so it is logged.
By catlady
January 2, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this
Someone needs to point out: You can’t get sumpthin for notthin. If it looks too good to be true, it is. You can’t trust government and the people who run it to do anything more than feather their own nests, and those of their friends and family.