Thinking Right

By jbmlaw

December 26, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this

Happy Boxer Day, all. I can support abolition of all pensions, even for those useful parts of government such as the military. The virtue of a 401k is that it allows each individual to live better while young, or to live better when old. Anything that increases freedom is good, and if it has a side effect in diminishing political corruption, so much the better.

By Glenn

December 26, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

I agree with Jim’s crisp column, but would like to point out two things: there are many full-time legislators in this country, some of whom surrender their professional careers to serve; when legislators and governors participate in public employee benefits, they come to understand the systems first-hand—-a good thing, since it is they who ultimately regulate the systems of benefit.

I for one freely admit that I go in for Papal splendour, and see nothing wrong with paying tribute. Within democratic bounds, this would mean that I support honorifics and perquisites and respectful compensation for our public officials, so long as the benefits are transparent to the public and understood not to be corrupting. In this way, we democrats exercise our republican muscles, by honoring not so much the incumbent as the office.

Every time a legislature convenes session the newspaper editors send their most under-employed hacks to pis and moan about some perk or other—-favored parking spaces at the airport, say, or free pick-up and delivery of dry cleaning at the Capitol, etc., etc. We’re not talking Hawaiian junkets with the NEA here. When they are in session, these are busy people sworn to perform duties of high purpose, and I think that any reasonable thing we can do with our collective werewithal to help them serve us, we should do.

[Rudy 08]

By Craig

December 26, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

Counselor, your comment that people can choose when they want to live better sounds appealing. But in a world without pensions, knowing human nature, a sizable percentage of people will simply not do the smart thing and save like they should.

Do we as a society just let Grandma starve because she foolishly didn’t save enough? I honestly don’t know the answer.

And, by the way, I wanted to note your reference a few days ago to Senator Hickenlooper - a name from my past. You’re correct, he would be appalled at much of what passes for government today.

By Redneck Convert

December 26, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this

Well, its bad enough these state workers expect to get paid regular wages when they ought to be willing to work for us for free. That don’t sound very Patriotic. Its downright awful they want to be able to retire on the dime of us hardworking taxpayers too. I think its enough I have to pay high taxes to pay them for the time they work. I shouldn’t have to pay them after they get too old to do nothing. It ain’t my fault they got old.

Me and my buddy Jim Earl was talking about this last week. Jim Earl come up with a good plan. Just start one of them 401k plans when a worker starts with the state and make maybe real little payments to it now and then. If the worker stays on the job for maybe 50 years he gets to leave with the state payments. If he gets fired or takes another job or starts drawing Social Security or dies the state should keep the payments us taxpayers made. I’m his boss, not his sugar daddy. We ain’t never going to get a decent GA fishing program or a NASCAR track in N. GA if all the money goes to pay state workers when they stop working.

Anyhow, the topic come up on account of us going to see a free play called Scrooge down at the Church of Holiness. It was put on by some kids. Seems to me this Scrooge guy had a godly conservative take on life. Leastwise till he got converted. And when he says are there no workhouses are there no prisons, well it seems to me this is how we should think about state workers. Including politicans. I bet when the Rev. Huckabee gets elected and we keep old Sonny in office, we can fix them workers up where our taxes can get cut and the state workers can go off and get jobs as WalMart greeters when they get old. I say cut out the state pensions and Social Security and tell people to save some of their pay or they will die.

That’s me and Jim Earls opinion and its very true. Well, I got beer to haul and no time to stick around on this blog. I hope everybody had a good Christmas and are still in a giving mood. Just remember to vote Republican next year.

By jbmlaw

December 26, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Dear Craig @ 9:41, you may be horrified that you and I analyze the issue identically, except that I am more willing than you to assign responsibility for decision-making at the lowest level. To follow the opposite view, we would have bureaucrats deciding which people could buy a house or car, and how much they can spend on such matters – when we magnify the bureaucrat’s judgment over those preferences of the individuals, we significantly erode freedom. I note that my hypothetical, on “house buying,” is about to become the law of the land: “Creditors would be prohibited from … extending credit without considering borrowers’ ability to repay the loan.” http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/press/bcreg/20071218a.htm

By deegee

December 26, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Make the old farts work til they drop dead like they do in Colorado, Massachusetts, South Carolina, et.al.

Seniors Work Off Property Taxes:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/25/AR2007122501138_pf.html

By jbmlaw

December 26, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

Comic apologies to all, I was so preoccupied with a certain California senator’s actions that I erred in my opening – Happy Boxing Day.

By Dennis

December 26, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

Mr. Wooten writes of “public employee” retirement plans, “One proposal would be a pure defined contribution plan, a 401(k) or something like it. That’s the direction state and local governments should go.”

Me, I can’t see why an individual who has been a corporate big-wig (high saleries, bonuses, medical benefits, deferred payment plans, big payout separation packages, corporate stocks) should need so much money after his/her retirement.

Why haven’t these big-wigs saved enough for their retirement or their health insurance like Mr. Wooten encourages those less blessed to do?

Truth is, “public employees” are better off with what they have.

Fact is, Mr. Wooten just can’t stand it that his banking and investment buddies aren’t making money from “public employee” retirement plans via 401(k)s.

You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.

By Bush is a Pervert

December 26, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

The Wall Street Journal today has a front page story on the rapidly declining paid newspaper circulation. I sure hope Jimmy Woodenhead does not have all his 401K retirement money in newspaper’s stock. I suspect the rapid run up in stock prices over the last decade has more to do with the forced savings in 401K’s and the easy money policy of the fed than any super duper sure thing place to grow rich. Imagine if we had say half our pensions dependent on 401K plans in 1929. The stock market crash would have wiped out retirement for millions. The best idea is a diversified retirement system, some company sponsored plans, some government plans, some 401Ks and 403Bs. Otherwise, a depression will be just that much more effective in destroying spending power. As for the gaming of the system by state government, the same thing happens in the corporate world. Mr. CEO and his pals walk away with tens of millions or more each. Do you remember the now dead ceo at cokeacola, Mr. G? He walked away with more than a billion dollars of share holders money, and coke has yet to recover. A person I played basketball with in school started his own REIT that did ok for a while, then took a bid downturn. His story to the board was that “we have to allign managements interests with those of the shareholders.” That was ceo speak for I want a bunch of stock as a gift before I make any effort to raise the share price. So he got a couple million shares free. He then sold off half the properties, and issued many more shares to pay for renovations at the remaining properties. A private equity firm did a buy out, mr ceo walked away with 20 million from his free shares, and the investors lost half their money based on their original investment. It didn’t cost me anything, because I knew he was a crook all along.

By Snap Judgement

December 26, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

Jim Wooten wrote some pretty good horse sense today! Mayor Street tried his best to be conservative, but his veto and his attempt to end the DROP program was overridden and put away wet.

That means the majority whip of a freely elected assembly coralled enough unbridled greed to saddle the taxpaying naysayers with more bucks. It’s understandable that this would stir up anger and spur on the horsesense necessary to get a hands-high hold on wasteful spending (which behoofs everyone).

Let them try to trot out more….aw, you get the bit!

By jbmlaw

December 26, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

Dear Pervert @ 11:04, I don’t think you answered the question: should defined benefit plans, now seemingly maintained only by government entities, be terminated and replaced by defined contribution plans and 401ks, or not? Imagine if in 1981 you had half of your social security funds in a 401k instead!

By AmVet

December 26, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

Good morning all,

Glenn, are you suggesting we treat our elected representatives with some dignity and respect, rather than simply irrationally and without forethought, vilify them, one and all?

I know I am a bit naive, (though I prefer to consider it traditional) and think that our legislators truly are public servants (you know that old “of the people, by the people and for the people, shall not perish from the earth” thing), who often make sacrifices and are more than worthy of certain, well defined, non-excessive benefits.

Yes, some, even many, are self-serving schmucks, but I still contend that MOST are not. And for the former, the answer seems childishly simple - don’t re-elect them!

So don’t confuse what I’m saying with blithely ignoring incompetence and/or corruption.

In fact I’ll go one step further, and state that IMHO, the incessant and sometimes mindless enmity displayed toward practically all of these politicos is misguided and in many cases, a cover up for personal irresponsibility.

By that I mean, why should I fault myself or my children when I can “blame” the government(s), the school(s), the “system” and/or ANYBODY else for my lot in life.

And yes, I know, I’ve heard every b!tch there ever was about income redistribution and the “government taking away MY money”.

Which is all good and well, if the end game is to enjoy all of the countless benefits in America with the stated goal of paying for none of them.

So in this way, I am never really personally responsible for changing the world for the better, but leave it up to those “in power”.

It’s called having one’s cake and eating it too…

By Snap Judgement

December 26, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

If you’re leaving it up to those in power, amvet, then it’s more like lying about yellow cake and invading Iraq too.

By AmVet

December 26, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Snap, I actually wrote a line about looking no further than the past seven years in Washington for proof (regarding what I consider incompetence and/or corruption) but redacted it thinking discretion is the better part of valor.

But your sage response leaves me no choice but to now include it.

Thank you.

By TW

December 26, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

AmVet - great post, well stated. Part of the beauty of the Bush Crime Family’s get rich scheme of the past seven years is that they were able to destroy the very government they detested in the first place, thus motivating their anti-American government base.

By Craig

December 26, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

Counselor, let’s say bemused, not horrified…

Pervert and you of course have hit on exactly the two sides of the coin. For most of us, money invested in our 401K’s has yielded a much better return than money invested in Social Security.

But what happens if us baby boomers retire in the next few years and all take our money out of the stock market in a short period of time, causing the whole thing to crash? Then, that social security or defined benefit pension plan will look a lot better.

I think perv is right, a wise and prudent society would encourage several different venues for retirement savings, recognizing that the stock market can crash.

By Bush is a Pervert

December 26, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

jmb - I did answer the question: It is better to have some retirement from the guv, as in social security and or state and federal pensions, and some retirement from private investments such as 401, 403, IRAs. No, I did not need the small social security payment to be invested in the stock market, I had more than enough of my own money to make those investments. I prefer the security of a Triad of retirement funds, SS, Company, and Private investments. Remember, State employee’s are free to open Roth IRA retirement accounts in addition to their State plan.

By Glenn

December 26, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

Amvet,

Yes, I am so suggesting, and am glad to see that you are too, more directly than I did. Some people are so callow that they seek to feign cynicism to cover their inexperience of the world. The only thing worse than a dirty politician—-and they’re all get dirty if they stay in long enough—-is a self-righteous pundit who excoriates the sins of politicians as though she had none of her own.

By Curious Observer

December 26, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

Yes, those variable returns on a 401k are far superior to the piddling guaranteed return on Social Security and defined benefit plans. I’m reminded of that every day. I check in early in the morning to see that “futures point to higher opening on Wall Street.” Three hours later, I check in to find that the three major indexes are down more than 1 percent. What a wonderful way to keep life exciting for future retirees!

Let me be the first to acknowledge that substituting 401ks for defined benefit plans, including Social Security, will create great wealth—for stock brokers and scam artists.

You’ve lost all credibility, Republicans. Just shut up until we can elect a president who gives a damn about working people. Then we’ll find a way to chip away at your security for a few years. I assure you that you won’t like it any more than we like what you’ve done to us.

By AmVet

December 26, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

Glenn, ah yes, but apparently countless Americans just love that dirty laundry. Provided, as you so accurately inveighed, they can pretend they have none of their own.

Call me a child of the 60’s and 70’s, but I just laughed when people started riding W’s a$$ about his younger “wilder” days involving booze, women and presumably weed and snow.

Hell, that’s not a DISqualifier for me! But rather a testament to a normal guy growing up during the craziest times in this country’s history!

And even Bill lying about getting a hummer from a “plain”, “stocky” girl had it’s lighter moments too.

But IF that becomes the overarching issue and IF people refuse to weigh and balance the pros and cons of any individual, we end up where we are today - polarized and paralyzed.

So who, but the otherwise saintly or those not in their right mind, want to volunteer for that?!!

No wonder once they run that electoral gauntlet and have passed the microscopic inspections and get in, so many, after a while, can justify and therefore seek out those oh so numerous and delectable goodies…

By Glenn

December 26, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

C.O.,

You indulge an odd and paranoid literary conceit, that of implying that whatever a GOP bureaucracy does that you find objectionable, it does to strike at rank-and-file Democrats.

By Bush is a Pervert

December 26, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

The debate on the best type of pension for state workers has one fatal flaw: All pension plans are based on the dollar remaining sound. What happens when the rest of the world decides that they already have too many dollars, and demand the US government redeem those tens of trillions of dollars for something of value? Let us say that there are some ten trillion dollars in foreign hands. We know that the feds have 200 million ounces of gold. Divide 10 to the 12th power by 200 to the 6th power. That gives a value to each ounce of gold of 5 to the 4th power, or 50 thousand dollars per ounce of gold. Gold is currently 830 bucks per ounce or so, meaning we do not have enough gold to redeem our currency in foreign hands. What else of value do we have? Our wheat crop, our corn crop, soy beans, then what? We cannot move the houses, factories, and office buildings offshore. All those dollars may one day come flooding back into america, creating a hyperinflation. Stock prices will go thru the roof, but prices for food and goods will be even higher. You can forget about oil - The worthless dollar will not be accepted by the world’s oil producers. The dollar will die a worthless currency. Better make other plans for your retirement.

By jbmlaw

December 26, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

Dear Craig @ 12:35, a follow up question and I promise to leave you alone: “I think perv is right, a wise and prudent society would encourage several different venues for retirement savings, recognizing that the stock market can crash.” Does a wise and prudent society compel use of one specific government controlled program, i.e., shall we criminalize the freedom to err?

By AmVet

December 26, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this

Man, am I glad Christmas is over!

And not for all of the many obvious reasons.

I mean how many times can a normal person take Mariah Carey’s sickening version of Santa Claus is Coming to Town?!

For my money give me Chuck Berry’s Run Run Rudolph (or even Keith Richard’s killer cover).

I remember a Saturday Night Live segment, where it was announced by Steve Martin that the first message from extraterrestrials was being received. This in response to finding and hearing the Golden Record aboard the Voyager spacecraft. Once decoded, the message stated, “Send more Chuck Berry.”

By Bush is a Pervert

December 26, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

Let me answer for Craig: Since it is the government that would be asked to rescue people who do not save prudently for retirement, it is proper for the government to compel saving of a minimum amount by all people. Once the minimum has been achieved, people are free to save or not save as they please. The idea is that the minimum will provide sufficient income to old people to prevent them from starving to death, thus not embarassing the guv and compeling a bail out.

By Snap Judgement

December 26, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this

Will Smith had to invoke Hitler’s name. It’s innappropriate to use Hitler. It’s also obsolete. We get it. Hitler was a bad man.

There is enough examples of evil in the modern world that we can stop making Hitler references. See how easy it is for the mighty to fall once the name Hitler is invoked? Will Smith had some really rough sledding over christmas.

New rule: Let Mel Brooks make all the Hitler references from now on, and everything will be just fine.

By Craig

December 26, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

As usual, someone else says it better than I can! I would just add, Counselor, that the government compels us to pay for lots of things that we collectively have decided are good for us - food safety, the military, speed limit signs, and on and on. The tension I guess is at what level are those requirements intrusive?

I would agree with perv - that since we will be asked to bail out those who don’t make intelligent choices about their retirement savings, that it’s not unreasonable to require everyone to pay for a minimum level of support.

By JMBLAW

December 26, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

Hitler wasn’t such a bad guy, he just made some bad choices, and ran with a bad crowd. His art work was good, and he was a better writer than Jim W. Why, with a little encouragement, he could have painted a masterpiece to go with his master race.

By jbmlaw

December 26, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

Dear JMBLAW@ 2:11, and I’ll bet Hitler also required citizens to invest in government programs. That’s how national socialists are.

By Another taxpayer

December 26, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

Dear Mr. Wooten,

A simple change in format of retirement benefits for elected officials will neither cure cynicism or eliminate temptation. For, as we all know, the cynic knows no bounds and temptation is the fruit of all evil.

By Snap Judgement

December 26, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

Chuck Berry riffs are a vital part of learning to play the guitar. You have to master that intro to Johnny B Goode to graduate to Nirvanna.

jbmlaw, craig, and perv miss the larger picture. Anytime Wooten brings up entitlements or cushy pension plans of incumbents, he’s trying to get his readers to see the larger picture of the human condition. Notice how Wooten cleverly opens with a specific human and then draws up a premise questioning the wisdom of giving any elected child access to a cookie jar.

Notice also that he’s drawing on Marx with his panacea for national morale: Cure cynicism. Eliminate Temptation.

Those four amazing words open up a discussion that could take us years to finish. Cure cynicism. Wow. Eliminate Temptation? If Adam and Eve couldn’t resist eating that apple in the Garden of Eden when they had plenty to eat from every other nutritional source in the garden, then I dont think we can ever eliminate temptation. In prison, you can get shivved over a cigarette.

But Jim’s frustration is my frustration: that I must endure reading the overbloat from a bunch of prose-challenge pimpernels each one trying to out-uberpudwit the other in a blog-soup of unearned elitism……

I’m the only one who understands Mr. Wooten. I’m his number one fan. You’re all nuthin’ but a…….(“tiny tim, are you badgering people on the internet again? What happened the last time you did that?”

I dont know.

“Yes you do know, tiny, one of the trolls you crossed up sent you a virus infected link that crashed your harddrive, remember? Cant you be nice to people?”

n-n-no

“Tiny, go to your room. No more computer for you today.”

f-ff—ff-f-f-f-f-f-f-

By Dusty

December 26, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

Ah gentlemen, this place is overburdened with the male pulchritude of all you great financial wizards. Jim knows how to stir your hearts to empty the secrets of securing great late wealth.

I don’t have the faintest urge to give advice, just trying to keep my own p’s and q’s in order. But..get a little mix of income, some savings and a bit of stock and property ..all of which is one sentence advice from any financial advisor in the country. And some advisors will even give you a fancy meal just to tell you that.

As to Jim’s suggestions, I don’t know. Better think for youself and offset one investment for the other, considering retirement. No overall program is going to suit everybody.

So enjoy yourselves. I had a great Christmas and am enjoying my new CD player and Dave Brubeck is going to town…. When you need some good advice….just ask your wife.

By HIDT

December 26, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

Checking in for the first time today. The all caps JBMLAW was not me. Though tongue-in-cheek, I’m personally not into defending Hitler.

By getalife

December 26, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

My goodmess,

Will you people ever get a life?

Blog ya next year.

Happy Holidays!

By Glenn

December 26, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

Happy New Year then, get.

By Barbara Crawford

December 26, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

Did you know that it was in 1912 when football made it legal to throw a pass further than 20 yards to make the game more exciting? They also shortened the field from 110 to 100 yards. They also made it legal to pass over the goal line for a touchdown. Imagine that. It was illegal to pass over the goal line. What they did was to allow a pass to go ten yards over the goal line and unwittingly invented the end zone. From the end zone came all those imaginary lines, and planes that extend to infinity, and the one that is least understood is the quantum polygon construct that occurs where the pylons are. There occured a play about four years ago, no wait, it was last sunday, when a guy ran into the pylons and the ref called it a touchdown. I didn’t know about the pylon geometric worm hole or whatever it is. It’s so mysterious that I’m having trouble explaining it. But it extends into the out-of-bounds region, apparently. Anyone remember that play? I remember being totally shocked that there was football I didn’t know about. WTF?

By Veronica Maybreck

December 26, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

Barbara, how do you know so much about football? Are you nutz? Look, I’ll make some sandwiches for my husbands gang during the superbowl, but that’s it. Why are you encouraging men to focus on football? Get to the mall, girlfriend. Did you see the deals at Macy’s today? Kohl’s? Better hurry.

By Barbara Crawford

December 26, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

I absorbed football over the years. How can you not? It’s there. It’s always there. The mall is good, dont get me wrong, but I’ve had enough. Take a break. I’m all in.

By Veronica Maybreck

December 26, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

Well, then, let me ask you this, Barb, may I call you Barb? When I make sandwiches, I cut the crust off the bread and always put dry lettuce or meat next to the bread itself so that the mayo doesn’t make the bread soggy. The tomato is a problem too, and that has to go between the lettuce and the ham. But my question is, do you use mayo or miracle whip for tuna salad? What about egg salad. Or say, turkey vs ham. My husband says that mayo goes with certain flavors and miracle whip with others, but I get them all mixed up, so what I’ve been doing is to mix the two together, you know, half mayo, and half miracle whip, and my husband never gets wise. He takes a bite, looks at me and asks, what did you put on this sandwich, I always hesitate and he tells me the right answer, “Mayo?”, “of Course, dear”.

He’s so cute. He also loves this garlic potato chip dip I make with cream cheese. But anyway, what are your thoughts about the mayo vs miracle whip controversy?

By Barbara Crawford

December 26, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this

My computer just went to the sorry page, so I’m repeating this reply, Veronica.

I use mayo for spreads and miracle whip for meats like turkey and ham. I agree that the mayonaise/miracle whip controversy is one of the great unsolved issues facing homemakers today. I wonder if we can get to Oprah with this? It’s worth at least an hour of discussion and maybe we can get a solution.

What do you put in potato salad?

By jbmlaw

December 27, 2007 8:32 AM | Link to this

Dear PoFo, I assume you wrote the funny stuff at the end of the blog yesterday, my compliments. Totally inane, great style.

While we are waiting for Jim, The Chairman on Huckabee: funniest column of the year – many great lines that I wish I had written. Most could be used on any leftist. http://www.anncoulter.com/

By RealRep

December 27, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this

Let the polls reflect real Republicans’ disdain for where the efforts of Ann Coulter and Bob Perry have taken the party.

Join us is restoring morality first to the GOP and then in the White House.

A vote for Giuliani is a vote for Hillary.

Huckabee ‘08

By deegee

December 27, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this

Benazir Bhutto is dead. Why did the US lose sight of Afghanistan and focus on Iraq?