Home > Thinking Right > Archives > 2007 > November > 26 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USJohns Creek on right track with housing allowance
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Just as it is risky to heap praise on living evangelists, it can be risky to heap praise upon start-up cities. One never quite knows how these things are going to turn out.
But the infant city of Johns Creek in north Fulton County offers an impressive example to cities old and young alike of the proper way to entice police officers to live intown.
The traditional Big Government way is to sell bonds and create a new “affordable” housing program, ostensibly to make it possible for policemen, firemen, teachers and assorted public employees to live near their work. For police, especially, neighborhood visibility reassures the homefolks that their homes and businesses are secure.
The Big Government approach is really more about empowering politicians and enriching their connected friends than it is about providing housing for the sought-after public employees. Teachers and police are simply a marketing opportunity to sell a new taxpayer-subsidized program.
Johns Creek is doing it right. The new city is in the process of hiring a police force that will consist of 56 sworn officers and 13 civilians. Officers will earn an average of $42,000. The typical house in Johns Creek sells for $400,000, unaffordable on a policeman’s salary.
The solution? Johns Creek is offering officers a housing allowance that averages about $600 per month to live in the city.
Bingo! That is precisely the way to go. It’s targeted. It’s adjustable. It has the potential to achieve a desired public policy of having officers present and visible in the community. And it can be discontinued if warranted — not for those who made housing decisions based on the subsidy, but for those not yet committed.
As with Johns Creek, “affordable” housing efforts really should be cleareyed and narrowly focused. Public officials should be able to articulate precisely why some lucky souls are entitled to a gift that may come at the expense of others struggling to make ends meet. In the Old Fourth Ward in the city of Atlanta, a gentrifying neighborhood causes angst among some nostalgics. Between 2000 and 2006, the city’s population increased 17 percent, from 416,474 to 486,411. Neighborhoods close to the downtown business district, like the Old Fourth Ward, are moving upscale.
This is commonly where politicians intervene with proposals to make housing “affordable” to some preferred group — often insisting that their neighbors provide the subsidy. In the case of the Old Fourth Ward, a master plan is being developed, but City Councilman Kwanza Hall wants to make certain that it includes housing for teachers, recent college graduates and artists. One solution he proposes is higher density in some parts, with a substantial number of units set aside as affordable. That means, of course, that a portion of their rents or their mortgages are paid by their neighbors.
Unlike the Johns Creek proposal, it’s not clear why taxpayers or neighbors are expected to be patrons of artists, for example, or why their presence in a given neighborhood is a compelling public purpose. And who decides which artist is entitled to a housing subsidy and why? And once selected for a public bounty, does the artist have no obligation to reciprocate — to donate a small abstract to a public building, for example, or to sketch a park scene for the enjoyment of the subsidy-payers ensconced in their high-rises?
And once the artist chooses to abandon the property, to whom does the windfall profit belong? Certainly not to the artist, for he surely has no expectation that the public treasury is an entitlement bestowed on him individually. Since the allotment is to guarantee that an artist will occupy neighborhood space, the property should be kept perpetually “affordable.” The now-affluent artist should make it available at something near the purchase price to an artist of the city’s choosing to preserve the quality of the neighborhood mix.
Silly? But of course. A city has no business designating some neighborhoods, or parts of them, as an entitlement for a preferred group. If they want police in the city, or teachers, they should follow the Johns Creek example: Give them cash and be done with it.
Permalink | Comments (63) | Post your comment | Categories: Column
Comments
By jbmlaw
November 27, 2007 8:18 AM | Link to this
Good morning all. I suppose I generally dislike subsidies of any sort, but if you have to have them, direct subsidies are better than indirect subsidies. The Johns Creek program is a great example of a direct subsidy, narrowly targeted.
I foresee some problems with implementation, e.g., temporarily disciplining a police officer could cost his family their home. By so-elevating the individual price of a mistake, the bias in the system will be toward inaction, not necessarily a good idea if lives are at risk (as in the mall food court shooting yesterday.) Maybe worse, now the fire department guys will get their noses out of joint, and demand the subsidy (although I doubt that a fire truck sitting outside a home would discourage arson in the neighborhood in the way that a police car may discourage a burglar.) My sniping does not intend to suggest the Johns Creek plan is without merit, just that, as is always the case, market interference almost always has unforeseen ripple effects.
By Glenn
November 27, 2007 8:26 AM | Link to this
Mornin, jbm. There’s something ridiculous about both these plans; like half-baked satire, something stultifying to put one’s finger on. Oh well.
Wanna cook up some ed. restructuring?
By jbmlaw
November 27, 2007 8:35 AM | Link to this
One other idea that crosses my mind, the subsidy may be ineffective. Without the subsidy the hypothetical policeman probably could afford only around $125-150k home, at most; the subsidy would push that up to around $200k. If the mean price is $400k, they still may be priced out of the market (although I suspect that the median is substantially lower – St. Ives probably corrupts the mean.)
Apologies for the sloppy draftsmanship in the final sentence of my first post.
By jbmlaw
November 27, 2007 8:39 AM | Link to this
Greetings, Glenn. Regrets, I am preparing a dog-and-pony this morning, cannot play until after lunch.
By Glenn
November 27, 2007 8:39 AM | Link to this
Actually, that was my favorite sentence, the more so for its not having occurred to Jim.
By Mid-South Philosopher
November 27, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this
Good morning, Jim, jbmlaw, Glenn, and those yet to come.
While the Johns Creek program is an appropriate way to deal with the issue of in town residency, I have a better idea. Why, to begin with, don’t we pay our people what they are worth?
Oh, wait,I forgot, hoopsters, gridiron greats, drunk celebrities, druggie entertainers, and others of their cut-of-the-cloth provide much more beneficial services to us than firemen, peace officers, teachers, and nurses.
How silly of me.
By Glenn
November 27, 2007 8:54 AM | Link to this
Catch you this afternoon, then. I too am out of commission mid-morning.
BTW, I have no pet agenda to promote, just a sense of the pieces lying scattered & waiting for someone to pick them up.
[Rudy&Fred]
P.S. Dog + PonyShow > Dog + DonkeyShow.
By ron
November 27, 2007 8:54 AM | Link to this
Jim,Subsidized police housing?Firemen next?Trash collection people?Any city employee?Want to try to run a community without a plumber or an electrician?Elected officials need housing.Cab Drivers need housing,they are important too.Not all ideas are good ones ,Jim.This one falls in the bad category.
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
November 27, 2007 8:55 AM | Link to this
Ah-hahahahahahahahaha
Big Government. Entitlement. Nanny State….
All right there in the GOP strong hold of Johns Creek.
Ahahahahahahahahahah.
What’s next? Food stamps?
Ahahahahahahahahahah.
But wait…this is an exception….Johns Creek is doing it “right”.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahah
By DICK -IF ONLY I HAD A HEART - CHENEY
November 27, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this
Uh Oh, another failed president is throwing a hail mary touch down pass at the end of his term. When the jews and the pals negotiate peace with such a failed president presiding, American Taxpayers had better hold on to their wallets very tightly. The last such peace treaty between Egypt and Israel has cost us one hundred and thirty five billion dollars, and growing at five billion dollars per year, forever into the future. What will the pals and the jews want this time? Ten billion per year? Oh yeah, they also want the payments increased each year to reflect inflation. Hold on to your wallets….. So much for a housing allowance
By Mrs. RepubLady
November 27, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this
Jim Wooten, I’m surprised at you! What are you smoking, and I hope you are selling it at a profit. NO taxes! Police officers should be glad to drive from the homes they can afford in Snellville every day for the honor of protecting the homes in Johns Creek. My interest income from Daddy’s and my husband’s investments is MINE! Not one extra dime for those common folk who are lucky enough to service my community. Hands off MY money!
By Redneck Convert
November 27, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this
Well, it all sounds like a big waste of money to me. I been in Johns Creek and its all high-falutin and high-price. They wouldn’t even allow a Billy Bob’s to open there, and its for sure they don’t want no trailers there. Godly rednecks like me wouldn’t be allowed right now. I say if they want cops to live there get rid of the zoning laws and make it so they can buy or rent trailers and move right in. You know good and well a cop can’t afford the rent on a $400,000 place. Even if the city give him an extra $2,000 a month.
Seems to me it would cost less if the people took up a collection and just hired their own private cops to live in one or two of the big houses. The way the Mexicans live 16 to a house in other cities. The people could just call up these folks and tell them to be at such and such a place at such and such a time. The same way rich businesses and churches and all just pay a cop extra to hold up all traffic while people that go to those places drive out. So a guy that lives in one of the $400,000 houses could just call and say be at my place at 7 in the morning and hold up traffic while I back out of my driveway.
I’m kind of disappointed in Wooten today. And jbmlaw too. This ain’t a Libraritarian way of doing things, using tax money to pay for a cops rent. Seems to me the rich folk in Johns Creek could just decide on their own to use some of their own money to hire cops and pay them extra. That way the people with the most money get the most Justice. That’s the Libraritarian way, and its the Republican way too.
Anyway, we’ll never get rid of taxes if we keep throwing money at paying cops rent.
By Peter
November 27, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this
Gee what will happen when the cops have kids, I guess they will get “Free” food, Or food stamps.
Then of course free Gas, then they will get free utilities.
Wow that sounds allot like being a Liberal Democrat.
Funny the WRONGS claim those taxes to pay for the POOR are not god, unless of course they get to protect themselves from the poor!
Can’t have it both ways, but at usual, the Right wing want’s it that way !
By jbmlaw
November 27, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this
Three more items related to the issue of government interference in the housing market:
Today’s WSJ has an idea closely-related to Jim’s essay: why “Hotlanta” does not work, long-term. http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010911 The Johns Creek idea is consistent with the WSJ essay on “what will work.”
No link available: the WSJ today has a funny-sarcastic lead editorial on the magnificent work of our fantastic democrat-Congress, which has found the single most-certain way to exacerbate the sub-prime mortgage “crisis,” by ensuring that legitimate institutions are not in the field. Yes, that will properly punish those sub-prime borrowers; when you leftists are unable to borrow anywhere, remember that you owe the thanks to the democrats in Congress.
Also, Citicorp borrowed mega-bucks yesterday (long-term subordinated debt, I think – cannot really tell from the article) paying 11%. Sub-prime mortgage borrowers do not pay so much. I infer Citi is in worse shape than most sub-prime mortgagors, perhaps because it was a worse-than-average mortgagee. Too big to fail?
By Dusty
November 27, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this
Oh, gee, or something,
I find a grain of truth in RedNeck’s morning mucky manifesto. “using tax money to pay for a cops rent” is not a good idea.
I don’t know much about John’s Creek except they have a new hospital. Seems like everybody there is supposed to be rich. No affordable housing at all? As others have mentioned, will they draw all county employees, except police, from other townships where they can afford a home?
That does not sound like democracy, to have a specialized subsidized few. As redneck suggested, maybe some of these rich people should hire their own security folks. That doesn’t sound exactly right either.
Maybe we should leave this to those hungry contractors who can always find a foot or two of ground to build a home. Surely they know how to squeeze out a nice little mod priced home that mod salaried people can buy. Let THEM try.
By Watta Load
November 27, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this
John’s Creek!? Online shopping!? Why doesn’t Jim blog about Iraq anymore? Is that little squirmish still going on over there?
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
November 27, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this
Oh…and I almost forgot the best part…all the whining about the Christain School’s desire to provide a lighted sports complex for it’s kids.
With all the hand-wringing and tempers over this…You’d think that the Fulton County Commission was debating putting a landfill in Ansley Park.
Hahahahahahahahahahahah.
Trouble in Paradise.
By jm
November 27, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this
I wonder if that $600 subsidy will be counted as taxable income, in which case, it will probably need to be something like $800 - $900 to have the same effect.
By Major
November 27, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this
I really hope all you “bashers” of the subsidy plans are not from Johns Creek. Because when crime goes up or when you are in need of police presence they will stuck in traffic on their way to your precious city. It is absurd not to give hard working police officers the opportunity to live in the city they protect!!
By BS Aplenty
November 27, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this
Disclaimer: I am not a resident of Johns Creek and have no investments there.
I believe the good people of Johns Creek wanted their own “city” for this very purpose. They wanted to control their local tax dollars to pay for the services they desire. The more local the government = the more responsive the government. And guess what, they’re getting what they want.
So raise a fist with me and proclaim, “Power to the People of Johns Creek.” Amen.
By jcr
November 27, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this
Contrary to popular belief, the housing market price in Johns Creek does not start at $400K. Although there are far more high-priced homes in the area, which brings the average price up, there are still affordable houses available. Do your research, it’s as easy as searching the ajc.com.
I think encouraging police officers to live in the community in which they serve is a great idea, and if it takes a subsidy to do it, then so be it. The same goes for firefighters. Like Sandy Springs and Milton, there are no other city employees in Johns Creek, so the city won’t be subsidizing others. The rest of the employees who work for the cities are employed by the private company that oversees the cities’ operations.
There are three police officers who live in our n’hood. They all work for different police depts., none of which serve our community. When a n’hood situation arises, they are the first to ask questions and to offer suggestions. It gives us all a better sense of security, especially if they drive police cars into the n’hood. I truly believe it is a preventative measure, and a smart one. However, I seriously doubt that cops would want to live where they work.
By Nyuenduh
November 27, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this
Jimma iza Chelly Pickah,
You in deep, Geeyaeey! You go fo Session 8, you knowhah goo fo you. Da New joeheknowizm, dat went out witha M14, Yankeedoodurl dandee boi. Twry summating ewlse, you shifobwrains.
By GaLiberal
November 27, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this
Moron Jm says: The Big Government approach is really more about empowering politicians and enriching their connected friends than it is about providing housing for the sought-after public employees. Teachers and police are simply a marketing opportunity to sell a new taxpayer-subsidized program.
Johns Creek is doing it right. The new city is in the process of hiring a police force that will consist of 56 sworn officers and 13 civilians. Officers will earn an average of $42,000. The typical house in Johns Creek sells for $400,000, unaffordable on a policeman’s salary.
The solution? Johns Creek is offering officers a housing allowance that averages about $600 per month to live in the city.What Moron Jim doesn’t tell you is this just another Big Government (BG)program that gives politicians more and more power and will expand over time. The same BG program that Moron Jim professes to hate. I’m just guessing here, but since Johns Creek is a bastion for neocon, bible-thumping, homophobic, xenophobic, racist Rethuglicons, their BG program is good while a liberal Democrat BG program is bad. Kind of a double standard, Moron Jim.
Another thing Moron Jim doesn’t tell you is that this will become an effectively an entitlement just to retain the police officers. There will be no end to the subsidy and will have to adjusted when housing prices rise. The tax-adverse John Creek won’t stand for increased taxes to pay for this entitlement so other programs will get cut like parks and recreation. So much for baseball and soccer. But you have lots of police with plenty of time to hand out speeding tickets.
When you vote Rethuglicon, you vote against your own best interests. And Johns Creek housing subsidy is living proof.
By time for the harsh but honest truth about black racebaiting wankers
November 27, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA …. stop - stop … too freaking funny … kwanza hall!!! LMFAO!!! This sad blacKKK prick is obviously yet another pandering black far leftist happy to steal like a thieving socialist other folks’ money to hand it over to other grasping leftist scum!!!
anyone know if this prick actually called itself kwanza as (nominally) an adult it or was it a hapless victim of brainless moronic afrocentric/racist parents who puked up this mindless black bollocks to instantly make most white folks laugh their arses off at their bigoted seeds’ pathetic micky mouse name????????
By Curious Observer
November 27, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this
One government subsidy is pretty much like another. Wooten tortures logic to try to differentiate this one from others. Dragging in artists to the argument does nothing to hide the fact that Johns Creek wants to subsidize the rent of police personnel. It does, however, raise the hackles of his neoconservative supporters: Art=bad hippy types, Cops=Keep my property safe from bad hippy and hippety-hop types.
I don’t care what these knuckle-draggers in Johns Creek do to themselves. If they want to put themselves on the hook for continuing and increasing subsidies, more power to them. Sooner or later, however, they will have to tax themselves more—the very thing they claimed they broke off from Fulton County to avoid. Who says there’s no poetic justice?
By deegee
November 27, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this
What difference does it make to anyone if the city of Johns Creek wants to pay a policeman $42,000 a year on average and then give them $600.00 a month for housing. Isn’t that the same as paying them on average $49,2000 a year? They might be able to afford an apartment in Johns Creek on that salary. If they don’t want to live in Johns Creek then they don’t have to take the $600.00 a month. Whose business is it? It has nothing to do with big government, it’s a compensation package.
By PEEPING TOM finally gets something right about black thugs
November 27, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
LMFAO!!! TOO FREEEEAAAAKKKKINNG FUNNY!!!
peeping tom is NOW using my wittily descriptive factual term for knuckle dragging black thugs hippety-hop types.
peeping tom must be a far left facist/racist to do this - as other far leftist pukes invariably cretinously and dishonestly assert … or is it now - albeit rather belatedly - simply recognising the UNDENIABLE inevitable truth about the countless numbers of thuggish black criminal scum and their cultural model/inspiration????!!
By steven
November 27, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this
this is the worst idea Johns Creek as thought of. I dont go asking my company for a subsidy just because i comute to Buckhead and live in Johns Creek, where the average price for a home is 1 million +. If this is the profession that these police officers have chosen, knowing what the salary is, then they need to live within there means. Maybe next we can give the trash collector at 1k subsidy so he can live next door to me. I sure he feels underpaid and wants to live in a better home.
By getalife
November 27, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this
Smells like a turd needs flushing up in here.
“Bush: Time is right for Mideast peace”
What writer strike?
That is comedy gold.
Bwa.
By time for the harsh but honest truth about black racebaiting wankers
November 27, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this
getaturd is absolutely right - a far leftist greasy illegal lying treasonous turd does need flushing!!
BYE BYE GETATURD
By Kingfish
November 27, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this
get-a-lifer,
DPFD13. “Drought-Plan-Free Day 13”; it’s been 13 days since Sonny’s prayer vigil, and still no plan.
Prior to his sop-plication, plan-free for months, but let’s give the no-account a break and reset the drought clock at November 13.
Let’s continue to keep count, shall we?
By time for the harsh but honest truth about black racebaiting wankers
November 27, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this
what happens to any cops who say buy a house with a taxpayer subsidy for several years and then they sell that house to move elsewhere?
are they obliged to pay back the portion of the subsidy to the local council?
and how is the calculation done for any improvements to the property etc that the cop may make?
or will they be allowed to keep the suggested $600 monthly subsidy money as part of their service? which would in effect mean they would be getting an extra $7000 or so in annual salary. obviously this figure depends on whether they are taxed on the subsidy or not - or if they are given extra funds to ensure they actually recieve - after tax - the full $600 - or whatever figure is agreed. or will the council simply insist on a clause ensuring payback when they sell their subsidised property?
over in the socialist run UK this kind of policy is being advocated by local socialist run counciles and national govt socialists in the corrupt to the core Nu Labour govt!!
By ron
November 27, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this
Now it seems as if the good folks in John’s Creek are going to get a sports complex.A christian one at that.How lucky for them.Seems they’re getting everything they want handed to them.Are the families of the christian sports kids getting subsidized housing too Jim?
By jbmlaw
November 27, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this
Dear Watta @ 9:54, you must have been out of the country. Even the NYT now says that the surge worked and the mission is accomplished: Iraq and US won, US democrats, Iran, and al Qaeda lost. http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110010910 (Kinda funny – last Saturday, to rebut President Bush’s Saturday radio address, the dems “trotted out” the fellow who was US military commander in Iraq during the period we made no progress, to whine about the unwinnable war. Everyone had a good laugh at the irony.) If you doubt the war is over, just listen to Hillary talk about the issue – she never says a word about “stability” or “military,” but only “political failures,” as if Iraq’s government is more dysfunctional than the US Congress. I think we need to give Schuerholz a Halliburton-style contract, to trade all of our US Congress (except Jon Kyl of Arizona, he’s pretty good) for the entire Iraqi legislature.
Dear BS @ 10:30, you had a funny riff @ 5:14 yesterday afternoon; my compliments.
Dear Curious @ 11:18 and Deegee @ 11:24, I agree with your core arguments, well done. I don’t mean to frighten you – I’ll disagree with you again tomorrow.
By time to carpet bomb the backward racist bacon munchers
November 27, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this
This is arguably the BEST song to play at the kangaroo/camel trial of the English teacher arrested for allowing young mohammedan kiddies in the long overdue for nuking Sudan to vote in class to name a teddy bear mohammed.
a classic by 10cc from their album Sheet Music
Oh Effendi
In the middle of a caravan
On a four wheel drive oasis
There’s a man with a thought in mind
To cash in on the desert faces
He’s got a truckload of Yorkshire girls
For your harem going places
And the border bums never saw
The guns in the whiskey cases
There’s a real, big demand
And it’s written in the palm of his hand
He’s gonna change the face of the desert
He’s gonna sweep away the sand
Hang on sheik, I’ve got a yellow streak
I ain’t here, I’m a mirage
Get back Des, keep it under your fez
And don’t give us away in the massage
Look what I did for the pyramid
I put a pool in and made it pay
I built an elevator and a film theatre
And I shipped it to the U.S.A.
‘Cos there’s a real big demand
And it’s written in the palm of my hand
I’m gonna change the face of the desert
I’m gonna sweep away the sand
Hang on friends!
There’s a lot more goodies in the pipeline
So this ain’t the time to close the deal
Here’s the deal
Ooh, now you’ve got a Howitzer all of your own
Ooh, and a Panzer division to chauffeur you home
Gun running is fun
But hang on, friends, hang on friends
Allah be praised, there’s a whole new craze
We’re gonna shoot up the foreign legion
And it’s up with the sheik
And down with the frog
We’re gonna liberate the region!
Oh Effendi, we’re gonna bury your head in the sand
Oh Effendi, you better get off my doggone land
Hey, Prince of the moonbeams
Son of the Sun,
Light of a thousand stars
Your gorillas are urban
And there’s bourbon on your turban
And the sun shines out of your arse
Oh Effendi, I’m gonna grovel in your wake
Oh Effendi, it’s all been a big mistake
You’re gonna cut out my liver
If I don’t deliver
Things are getting out of hand
I’m going to ride off into the sunset and
Make a deal with the promised land
Goodbye friends
There’s no more goodies in the pipeline
on second thoughts this might be even better
Roy Harper’s brilliant
The Black Cloud Of islam - off his superb album If
I’m sick to the teeth of the news on the screen
of hizbullah scum and jihad the obscene
whose men plant the bombs and then live feeling free
to watch women and children be killed on T.V.
which satan delivers a child a death curse
in the name of a worn out collection of verse
I’ve not read the book so I cannot recite
but I’d bet Salman Rushdie is just about right
underneath the black cloud of islam
What kind of publicity needs so much blood
that’s not for some sad diablical god
selling himself as a two-bit Macbeth
as the expect in sentencing cousins to death
and what kind of god can this be anyway
that you have to prostrate to him five times a day
with hate in your heart and a gun in your hand
is force the only thing to understand
underneath the black cloud of islam?
and the butchers who’ve got all this blood on their hands
are the ones who need god to be stood where he stands
blessing this kidnapping, murder and war
with books written hundreds of ages before
and woman in veils walking paces behind
doesn’t sit easy in my mind
it speaks of oppression and no other choice
that rigid compliance with the loudest voice
underneath the black cloud of islam
You can put a lead bullet clean through this guitar
‘cos I’m not overjoyed with the story so far
sharing a world with the nutters of god
is as good as being six feet under the sod
words that are written are all here to say
and these are the latest there are anyway
and I am the prophet so don’t believe me
I’m the same as the old ones expect that I’m free
to give you a piece of my mind which is this
you’re the worst of jehovas blind witlessnesses
with your feet in the door of the deepest abyss
which is underneath the black cloud of islam
By Jackie
November 27, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this
Are taxes from the public coffers being used for this subsidy? If so, isn’t that WELFARE? Rich and poor alike putting in their tax money to pay welfare to the police officers of an exclusive community. We are being asked to disregard our lying eyes and ears and understand this effort is for the public good because Mr. Wooten says so!
By Mr. Perrywinkle
November 27, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this
I’m too old to appreciate new programs to make housing affordable for targeted professionals. In my day we didn’t have no fancy subsidized housing allowances to lure policemen or other safety officials into our cities and townships. When we wanted a policeman to live nearby we simply opened up a donut shop, 24/7, and then you couldn’t get rid of the cops. But, if that didn’t work, we’d find a judicial activist to change the laws and release all the criminals the cops had just locked up, and set them loose on a rampage through the police barracks, and then the police would relocate like homing pigeons right where we wanted ‘em in the first place. That’s the way it was and we LIKED it!
By Anonymous
November 27, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this
The fact that Wooten, a nominal “conservative,” is endorsing specially targeted government handouts, is funny.
The pathetic aspects of the situation, however, are
That Johns Creek has no affordable housing, and
That Johns Creek is unwilling to pay police officers a sufficient salary to live in the community they’re supposed to protect.
By @@
November 27, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this
John’s Creek sounds like a community which would provoke outrage at the gate.
Sounds good to me although at $400,000 a unit I won’t be moving in any time soon.
I take exception to your slight against artists Jim. Artists often have much to contribute to a neighborhood why just look at Dennis Kucinich he’s always working on his yard art or is it transporation? I forget.
By Dusty
November 27, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this
Awww I’m worrying about something besides Johns Creek today. John can paddle his own canoe up the creek.
It seems Somalia has fallen to pieces and taken about 200,000 people with it. At least, last night’s news said something like that and showed refugee children dying in their skin stretched bones and swollen bellies in refugee camps. Will it never end?
I know. I’m sorry. I’m off topic. But, sometimes, the suffering of others is so overwhelming that it is almost unbelievable.
Darfur in agony. Now Somalia with its death camps of last resort as people leave the terror of Mogodishu. Even Relief agencies cannot reach them and the UN says it can do nothing.
We are so fortunate here in America. May we always be thankful for our good fortune. There are so many that die without it. Let us open our hearts and minds to help in any way that we can, even as we know the frustration of helplessness.
By deegee
November 27, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this
How many Atlanta Police officers can afford to live in Buckhead? How many Dekalb police officers can afford to live in Dunwoody? Apparently the city managers of Johns Creek want a close knit, community feeling. They decided that giving public employees a housing allowance as an incentive to locate in the community helps them achieve their goal. That’s their business, and I doubt that it is going to strain their budget.
By Kingfish
November 27, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this
The first plan wouln’t be such a freaking brain-dead chickens-hitting abuse of fiduciary responsibility were the Council to set their diseased minds on finding the money necessary to attract top cops in the first place.
But this would require mettle and thrift elsewhere, so that’s definitely Varsity ball to the Councilmembers’ barefoot tag league.
Alternatively, they could possibly still get an effing clue and stick the DEVELOPERS with the tab for fattening the cops’ compensation packages with housing subsidies.
But then I’m just a newly arrived surfer boy, unaware that Atlanta got ta where it is by advertising itself as a free-for-all for unbridled cronies calling themselves developers. I just didn’t realize, when suggesting that developers actually pay for impacts they cause, that had Atlanta been into regulated development there’d be no efficient transportation system, no signature architecture, no intelligent downtown redevelopment, no creative approaches to low-income housing, no effective regional planning.
And that’s OK, really, because developer fees could work for only a time, by which the members would have to be suited up and ready to serve as Varsity starters they were sworn in to be.
So, it is I who am doomed by my own incompetence, ignorance, cowardice and profligacy. As usual.
The second plan, to turn artists into geishas and court eunochs, is Kwanzitatively more Kwanzecrable than the first proposal by a factor of fish, as a Surrealist might put it.
The other strong democracies, e.g. Canada, Ireland, France, may prefer on balance to expend the democratic capital necessary to “house” artists, but we never should do such a thing.
We need—“need” being operative here—need artists who are independent enough to feel utterly at liberty to depict, for example, how Kwanza Hall represents the soul of Shakespeare’s immortal intelligent idiots.
Except for the “great” part.
And the “intelligent” part.
By GaLiberal
November 27, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this
Moron Jm says: The Big Government approach is really more about empowering politicians and enriching their connected friends than it is about providing housing for the sought-after public employees. Teachers and police are simply a marketing opportunity to sell a new taxpayer-subsidized program.
Johns Creek is doing it right. The new city is in the process of hiring a police force that will consist of 56 sworn officers and 13 civilians. Officers will earn an average of $42,000. The typical house in Johns Creek sells for $400,000, unaffordable on a policeman’s salary.
The solution? Johns Creek is offering officers a housing allowance that averages about $600 per month to live in the city.What Moron Jim doesn’t tell you is this just another Big Government (BG)program that gives politicians more and more power and will expand over time. The same BG program that Moron Jim professes to hate. I’m just guessing here, but since Johns Creek is a bastion for neocon, bible-thumping, homophobic, xenophobic, racist Rethuglicons, their BG program is good while a liberal Democrat BG program is bad. Kind of a double standard, Moron Jim.
Another thing Moron Jim doesn’t tell you is that this will become an effectively an entitlement just to retain the police officers. There will be no end to the subsidy and will have to adjusted when housing prices rise. The tax-adverse John Creek won’t stand for increased taxes to pay for this entitlement so other programs will get cut like parks and recreation. So much for baseball and soccer. But you have lots of police with plenty of time to hand out speeding tickets.
When you vote Rethuglicon, you vote against your own best interests. And Johns Creek housing subsidy is living proof.
By Steve
November 27, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this
It’s so much fun to come here. Wooten sets himself up for so much ridicule.
I mean, come on! If someone gave me $600 more a month, and I make TWICE what the police make, I still wouldn’t be able to afford housing in Johns Creek.
Nevermind the fact that Wooten is applauding socialism.
For shame, Mr I look like Orville Redenbacher!
By Glenn
November 27, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this
Jackie,
Thanks hugely for the keen data and analysis on the plight of the vets. That kind of Problem Statement is exactly what I should use in the proposal. Uncharacteristically, you didn’t say what you think about the PTSD numbers, but my gut sez: if anything, too small.
And not that there’s anyone to blame, exactly, for the PTSD. The blame should and will come only if the feds don’t get smart and earnest and earnest about getting out the People’s checkbook and buying the best services available anywhere in the world. As the weapons systems are the world’s best, and developed and used at unsparing expense, so should the vets’ care be also. (Besides, I’ll make more money that way.)
Incidentally, there’s nothing legally hinky about a municipality using housing subsidies as part of a compensation package for peace officers. It’s just that it’s a damned stupid idea.
By getalife
November 27, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this
Yes Jim,
It is welfare but not the corporate welfare cons ♥ .
Geez.
By Anonymous
November 27, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this
Wooten has always endorsed a welfare state… he just wants to make sure corporations and the wealthy get all the welfare.
By Fred McElroy
November 27, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this
Johns Creek is a company town, i.e. a mixed-use development being turned into a municipality. Why can’t the company just build Johns Creek-style base housing for its army?
By Shame on you
November 27, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this
Steve, I don’t think it’s nice to insult Orville Redenbacher that way.
By deegee
November 27, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
I think that Fred McElroy is on to something. Why can’t Johns Creek buy up some of the 15,000 sq. ft. Mcmansion foreclosures and turn them into multifamily housing for public employees? For the price of a little sheetrock you can have say 5, 3,000 sq. ft. dwellings under one roof. They already have enough toilets, showers and kitchens. Wouldn’t that be just a little Mayberry in North Fulton?
By @@
November 27, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this
Just think, we can give a gift, assist a vet and save on gas. It’s a winner all around.
Sears Holdings raised $1.3 million for the Heroes at Home program earlier this year through a nationwide in-store campaign. The second in-store fundraising effort kicked off Friday in celebration of Veterans Day and will continue through the holiday season. Sears customers can participate in this initiative by making a donation at registers or at the Web site sears.com, or by using their Sears card or purchasing a Sears gift card. Additionally, Sears will make a donation to “Heroes at Home” for every credit card purchase from now through Dec. 28, up to $1 million and for every gift card purchased during that time up to $100,000.
Be generous!
By Jackie
November 27, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this
@Glenn,
The peak number for military personnel in any one year was 500,000. The conflict lasted from 1964 to 1974. So, I would assume that more than 3 million veterans went through Viet-Nam.
By Jackie
November 27, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
@Glenn,
A little further research revealed this web site:
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/factsforfeaturesspecialeditions/002827.html
By USG - Leading the Building Materials Industry
November 27, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
deegee, we must ask that you cease and desist using our trademark Sheetrock brand name. Gypsum wallboard is acceptable in all references, without infringing on our marketing licenses. Thank you for your attention to this matter.
By personnel lady @ USG
November 27, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this
Would whomever it is that is blogging on company time please get back to work before I send Josh over to your cubicle to lockdown your computer.
By William C. Foote, CEO USG Corp.
November 27, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this
How’s that again, ex-personnel lady?
By Google
November 27, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this
Google _ making clever, snarky exchanges on blogs easier since 1998.
By Glenn
November 27, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this
Thanks again, Jackie. It’s all good stuff. About something that’s all bad.
By Glenn
November 27, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this
Google go edit democracy somewhere else, you bitter spent hack. I hear Putin’s hiring. Go.
By JohnD
November 28, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this
Jealousy is so prevalent here.
“I make twice… and I could not live in John’s Creek”.
“Stick the DEVELOPERS with the tab”
“15,000 square foot McMansions…”
Ga liberal is the classic example of the thinking that proves the Left is shallow and bereft of any value to society.
deegee has this right. The plan is nothing more than a compensation package designed to attract employees the city desires, not a welfare program or an entitlement.
There are apartment complexes in JC that $600 would be more than a third of the monthly rent on a 2 or 3 bedroom.
All you JC bashers on this blog have apparently never been in the area or have any awareness of the manner in which the taxes were used by the Fulton Commission as re-election, welfare programs for their voters in Atlanta and South Fulton.
The new cities in North Fulton are nothing more than a modern day Boston Tea Party - a revolt against taxation without representation and the pilfering of the local population for the benefit of a King in a distant land (The Fulton County Commission).
Really irritates you Lefties when Democracy actually works.
As an earlier post said - “I am not a resident of, nor have a business in John’s Creek”.
P.S. Curious Observer - you appear to be more of a knuckle dragger than the good people of JC, what with your name-calling diatribe.
By Tiny Tim
November 28, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this
f-f-find ‘em
“Oh, great! Somebody taught Tiny Tim his 4 F’s.
f-f-fool ‘em.
“I know you’re not gonna say your 4 F’s in here, Tiny Tim. Stop it now!
f-ff-f-feel ‘em.
“Tiny Tim, I’m warning you not to recite your 4 F’s ever again…”
f-f-ff-ff-ff-forget ‘em.
By KZ-Guy
November 28, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this
Hey Wooten, you forgot to include the pledge to vote GOP in order to collect the $600 monthly housing allowance didn’t you? Also when will you propose for the city to pay the taxes on the $600 monthly allowance? At least you took your hood off when you posed for the AJC picture.
By o4watl
November 30, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this
Can’t be sure if this has been pointed out… The Old Fourth Ward and Johns Creek have different needs. Kwanza see’s the big picture. Who cares about a couple thousand subsidized homes in a neighborhood most of you would be scared to visit.. much less, reside? As a taxpaying homeowner in the Old Fourth Ward I’m more interested in forward movement and development than complaining about putting a single mother, artist or police officer in a few subsidized homes that will eventually be recycled by the market. Then we’ll all have what we want, high property values, fat taxs rolls and a safer community.