Thinking Right

By jbmlaw

November 21, 2007 8:45 AM | Link to this

Good morning all. I saw the news item also, and I am also grateful to see one less politically-divisive issue among us. As I oppose any Federal wagering on technology – why screw up the free market unnecessarily? - I could never envision any reason to make an exception on stem cell research. As to the critical moral issue, so long as only leftist embryos are destroyed I don’t have any real reservations about nazi-like experimentation.

By TW

November 21, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this

Without having to destroy human life We had to destroy innocent, civilian human life in Iraq? I’m thankful for what consciences eventually do to people like Scott McClellan.

By Phil

November 21, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this

I, for one, am in favor of morally and ethically sound research. I’ll leave it to the pundits, of which there usually appears to be an abundance, to pilfer or plunder - as the case may be - the definitions for the keywords given above that should be the basis of all our daily efforts. Alas, we are but mere mortals in search of the ever-lasting.

By Redneck Convert

November 21, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this

Well, a person might as well live with a wounded bear as with the missus these days. What with my boy and my dotter and little Sonny Zell George and Joe Bill and Jim Earl coming over for supper tomorrow, she is stomping around and yelling and getting all nervous about having everything ready. You don’t want to be saying anything back when she has one of them big pans in her hands. So I been spending my nights at Billy Bob’s and coming home after she has went to bed. Leastwise, she ain’t mean when she’s sleeping. I don’t understand all the fuss about some cells but it looks like they found a way to get around using little babys for research. That’s a good thing and maybe some of the scientists will escape going to hell for using a little bunch of cells that look like a blob but is really a baby in disguise. Anyway, better them fertilized eggs in a dish be throwed away when they get kind of old than used for research. Long as I don’t see it they can throw them away. I guess they ain’t babys when they are throwed away, but they are babys as long as they are in a dish. Course, the scientists that found out the way to make them skin cells turn into embryo cells will probly charge big-time for others to use the discovery. That’s the American way. By the time the cells are ready to be used to heal people, it will cost a patient about 2 million bucks to get healed, so that everybody can make a profit. That’s the American way too. Then the insurance cos. will take over and by the time they are finished it will cost around 4 million bucks and half the people that need it won’t be covered. That’s the American way too. Course, the rich people will just go to India or Mexico or Canada to get around the problem, and the poor people will die the way God planned it. And that’s the American way. Anyway, I want everybody, even TFTT and jbmlaw and Sister Dusty, to have a good Thanksgiving.

By Jeff

November 21, 2007 9:05 AM | Link to this

Well, what most are forgetting is that we’ve had stem cells for quite a while that didn’t cause controversy - other than from the left. Umbilical cord blood provides ‘adult’ stem cells which are just as useful as the embryonic ones, but without the controversy. That said, I do think the news of this new technique is GREAT news to those of us who think that stem cell research is a great thing - so long as one human life is not traded for another. As far as federal funding, I’m with jbm on this one. Get the governement back to the bare bones essentials, which means force it to STOP interfering with the free market.

By TW

November 21, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this

Jeff 9:05 - Umbilical cord blood provides ‘adult’ stem cells which are just as useful as the embryonic ones Nope.

By Anonymous

November 21, 2007 9:22 AM | Link to this

There was never any need for controversy, but a lot of religious nuts can’t let go of the notion that they should be running the country. If it’ll shut them up, I’m all for this new approach—PLUS embryonic cell research too, of course. No need to cut off one promising avenue of research just because another has appeared. And as for nazi-like experimentation: it would have to be done on leftists. Because the conservatives are the ones with all the expertise in that area.

By SoS

November 21, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this

!! “The divisive moral and ethical wars”. Oh Gawd, here we go again with the secularist Hatfields vs. the non-secularist McCoys. And the War between the Sexes and the Battle of the Private Parts. Of crude oil and annointing oil; of the uterus and the Mother Church; of fetuside at home and infanticide abroad; of Big Mother and Big Brother; of hypocrisy and the attenuation of crisis. Jesus Christ! Not again, Jim.

By AmVet

November 21, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this

Good morning all. Long time, no write. Firstly I completely concur with Mr. Wooten - especially as free Americans, we ALL have much for which to be thankful. Every single day. I am always a tad suspicious when lay people such as ourselves and our columnist delve into these scientific/medical matters with such little direct knowledge or any expertise. Much of what we “know” is through the lens of various corporate media conglomerates, or worse, agenda driven web sites, etc. And no one can deny that we live in an age where the more strident extremists are utterly polarized on ANY matter than touches the sacred faces of science and simultaneously religion, or much more accurately, ethics (as the two terms are not necessarily interchangeable). As to the Jim’s last paragraph (Many who would support research would, I suspect, oppose funding it with taxpayer dollars on the grounds that they shouldn’t be forced to fund something that offends their moral and religious beliefs.), I merely ask of the conservatives some sometimes sorely lacking consistency. I.E., there are many of us who oppose being forced to fund other various government expenses that offend our moral and decidedly non-religious beliefs. And that two-edged sword is the rub, isn’t it?

By Tut Terwilliger

November 21, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

If the embryos are “leftovers,” that/who(?) will never be implanted, then I think their highest, best use is in such research, whether federally financed of not.

By Einstein

November 21, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

The report about stem cell research reminds me of the report about cold fusion. There are technical problems, and a dearth of cold facts. A practical application is years and years away, if the results can be repeated in a controlled lab. I dont recall any stem cell moral quandry increasing the American attention span - now at an all time low - about equal to the amount of time needed to flush a low-flow toilet. I think most Americans are sick of Iraq, abortion, deficit spending, Valerie Plame, (even Nixon doesn’t care if The McRoves resign), Osmond Family reunions (on ice skates), hanging chads, rocket tubes… and instead want to concentrate on the moral implications of switching quarterbacks in midgame or midseason, (which is worse than switching midwives in mid-birth). But then, I’m Einstein, I dont know nuthin’ ‘bout birthin’ no babies….. ps. most americans think the stem cell report now proves that “Jurassic Park” was a documentary. Good science is wasted on us. If you want research go to India, where the whole country’s a Mayo Clinic.

By Dennis

November 21, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this

If I recall correctly, Jeff, it’s the neocon right that has objected to stem cell research. As to the federal funds, I’d rather have my share go for research rather than to the Bush war of his personal choice. (Bush is a war criminal. Why is it so hard for the media to say that - including Jim Wooten. Saddly, even the Democratic party is afraid to say that - for “politcal reasons”). (Speaking of the war, Georgia could use two new senators. Saxby Chambliss is such a sham/disgrace/Bush rubber stamper that he’s even been booed by his own Republican party). You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.

By Frankenstein

November 21, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this

You mean Jurassic Park wasn’t a documentary? Dang.

By Einstein

November 21, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

No sir, Jurassic Park was a story about what might have been had the native american renegade named Geronimo ever gotten his hands on repeater rifles and firewater in the same night, and then gotten loose in the Smithsonian Institute. The reason americans think that it’s a documentary is because there’s a pony in it.

By SoS

November 21, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this

…of Republican Nazis and left-wing Democrats ordained by the smoke of the burning children of Auschwitz…

By AmVet

November 21, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

Frankie! Tighten those bolts in your neck! Jurassic Park was a failed pilot for a reality TV show! Oh, what compelling TV drama it could have been… And on this day before the more pious sit side by side with us heathens at the plate of gluttony, please don’t forget the old Argent song, “God Gave Rock & Roll To You”. Sing it brothers and sisters.

By getalife

November 21, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

“One of the researchers involved in yesterday’s reports said the Bush restrictions may have slowed discovery of the new method, since scientists first had to study embryonic cells to find out how to accomplish the same thing without embryos. “My feeling is that the political controversy set the field back four or five years,” said James Thomson, who led a team at the University of Wisconsin and who discovered human embryonic stem cells in 1998. Yet, the pro death wingnuts ♥ to blow up babies. “The U.S. Military is demanding that thousands of wounded service personnel give back signing bonuses because they are unable to serve out their commitments. To get people to sign up, the military gives enlistment bonuses up to $30,000 in some cases. Now men and women who have lost arms, legs, eyesight, hearing and can no longer serve are being ordered to pay some of that money back.” Mr. Murtha is right as always. Despicable. I am thankful for the troops sacrificing again and again in the fraud of the Iraq disaster.

By Gen. Patton

November 21, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

Einstein, you magnificent sonofabuzzard, I’m reading your BOOK!

By Einstein

November 21, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

All Americans love the sting of flaming. I would be proud to lead you boys into prattle on a blog, in the fog, with pollywogs. God Bless you all. Happy Thankgiving. (Blubbersnort, snifflegurgle, hoithoyt)

By Glenn

November 21, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

Why wouldn’t God save Rock and Roll, Amvet? He invented it! Happy Thanksgiving, you backsliding heathen.

By Dusty

November 21, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

Seems the congregation has been nipping at the bottle this morning. Oh well, happy Thanksgiving to all.

By HIDT

November 21, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this

I agree with Dusty on both counts. It’s almost as if we had the same thoughts at the same time. Scary.

By James

November 21, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

Thankful for Scott McClellan

By AmVet

November 21, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

Glenn, I’m listening to some Yes right now and must confess (get it?!) that some of their stuff was always religious for me! Dusty, you old Manischewitz lover, are you speaking from experience?!

By Genie Forever

November 21, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

I saw Yes in concert in Pensacola in 1995. It was fun.

By Glenn

November 21, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

Amvet, I realize that Wakeman pops out at a poysun, and Steve Howe is for my money the most elegant of Rock guitarists, but Jon Anderson was way ahead of his time: a strange blend of Christian and New Ager, before the latter term had really taken hold. Oh well, at least he didn’t shy from spiritual topics, which puts him in good company with some of the best, e.g. V. Morrison, Gabriel, Aretha, Winwood, Elvis the King, Jas. Taylor, Bono, Harrison, Santana, Orbison, Emmylou, Dylan, the Nevilles, Armatrading, etc.

By Phil

November 21, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

I’m thankful for the few brain cells I still have not donated to a worthy cause. I remember Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon concert at the one-and-only Atlanta Stadium. Those were the days.

By JohnD

November 21, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

Was this blog the basis for Short Attention Span Theater?

By Puffin' Stuff

November 21, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this

I saw Springsteen in the Omni in 1987. My only disappointment was a dirge-like rendition of Born to Run.

By Glenn

November 21, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

In view of my friend Dennis’ struggles with the abbreviation “Neocon”, which applies to Podhoretz and Kristol et fils, to Kirkpatrick and Moynihan and approximately 12,367 others on the planet, I wanted to offer a glossary of more accurate distinctions: Bush: Pseudocon Reagan: Goldycon Giuliani: Metrocon Romney: Moronicon Huckabee: Jimmicon Thompson: Awshucksicon Paul: Anticon Thomas: Chakacon Billary: Longcon Wooten: Libicon Dusty & Me: Sancticon [Metrocon 08]

By AmVet

November 21, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Glenn and various other rock & roll lovers, If you like the “spiritual” aspects of rock (and who doesn’t?) try listening to some Todd Rindgren. If all you know are his pop hits, do yourself a favor and check out his insanely great and deep catalogue. His Liars album from 2004 is one of the all-time greats IMHO, and for a guy who is in his late 50’s he is still completely relevant and empowering and has more talent in his little finger than most have in their entire band!

By Dr. Smartino

November 21, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

The content of today’s blog proves the five-day Thanksgiving weekend is not a myth.

By ron

November 21, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

Federal funds for stem cell research?Are you kidding?I firmly believe we should bury our religious heads in the sand on all matters scientific.Have Sonny jump out there and pray for cures for diseases like he prayed for rain.It rained,it just happened to land in Bangladesh by mistake.

By JK

November 21, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

Glenn, you rock! I stood right in front of Chris Squire for two hours at a concert in Europe without being pushed or shoved. It was heaven (as in “We have heaven” from Fragile). Have you checked out Muse? I think you’ll like the sound.

By Curious Observer

November 21, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

Would the children on this blog please stop discussing rock concerts and return to today’s topic?

By Phil

November 21, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

There’s only one basic rule in life (and when dealing with politicians) - DON’T eat no yellow snow.

By time for the rock and roll lovin' truth

November 21, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

i see the leftist pondscum queeralicious dogturn peeping tom is not a music lover. in answer to its hiTlary-like question NO Huge Yes loving SMIRK

By Van

November 21, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

I would have to say, that all lefties would be all for embryonic stem cell research. It only impacts innocent lives and not any protected class of victims. They would be all for spending any amount of tax dollars, since the federal government is their hero. Here is a question. How many advances are credited to adult stem cells and embryonic stem cells? Why are the scientist concerned about ethical problems concerning embryonic stem cells? Embryonic stem cell research is allowed in this country, without restrictions, it is only yhe public funding that is the issue - where are all the liberal millions going? I can only believe that the so-called progressives believe in recycling all the aborted fetuses.

By Curious Observer

November 21, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

Thank you Van for returning some sanity to this blog.

By AmVet

November 21, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

Curious Observer, How dare you trampled on my first amendment rights! THE WHOLE WORLD’S WATCHING! THE WHOLE WORLD’S WATCHING!

By Van

November 21, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

You are most welcome, kind sir. Afterall, the highest conservative principle is stick-in-the-mudiness.

By Phil

November 21, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

I’m curious. If one were to look at any given blog, at random, would one find - or even expect to find - a proclivity of meditative misgivings. I doubt it but that’s just my observation.

By Van

November 21, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

I see the pseudo-Van is back - Hey butt leak, how is it going

By Eugene $ Krabbs

November 21, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

I’m just curious. Would the genetic material I expel twice a day through manual manipulation have any research value? Or even better any monetary value?

By Phil

November 21, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

When only machines are left (or needed) to do the tasks of (or for) human-kind, who will be left to ask the most basic of questions? Were we wise enough to have instilled a few lines of code meant to protect us from an Outer Limits (or better yet, Isaac Asimov) future? I fear that Murphy will still be around to remind those of us who are left?

By Jackie

November 21, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

Research has shown that stem cells may be the cure to diabetes, Parkinson and some types of cancer. Nancy Reagan has pleaded for years to allow this research to go forward. Ronald Reagan acknowledged in 1988, embryonic stem cells had shown the potential for curing many diseases. He chose to make a political issue out of the research, severely thwarting significant progress toward using this method to cure illness. This same curative process could be the foundation of elimination of many diseases and ailments. Those on the right continue to use the financial cost and abortion as political talking points to stymie this aid to mankind, yet, they complain about the cost of medical care and the distribution of that same care. Are they trying to have it both ways?

By Glenn

November 21, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

Amvet @ 11:55, Todd is God! Thanks for the tip about “Liars”, as I am one who has only the early stuff. I believe he was the first to embrace the Net with both arms (he and Stewart Brand are lifelong friends), and has since worked continuously online, so if that’s true I’ll check him out in a keystroke. getalife @ 9:49, your infallible hero Pope Murtha has pontificated repeatedly about deeds not done by him in Vietnam, and more recently of the war long since lost in Iraq. To you, he is “right as always”? STFU, Smartino, you simpering scold. Who made you ombudscolon, you transparent fraud with a morbid case of the church giggles? Your bony knobs are sticking out of your intellectual kneepants, and we’re sick of your daily dose of psychopathy. Maroon. Over at Luckovich’s we’re alternatingly laughing at your tedious imbecility and speculating as to when was the last time you oiled your mental hinges. Are you the next mad bomber, Smartino, or just drunk on your own wine? The next time you contemplate opening your veins, which we suspect will be this evening, do us all a favor. You’re taking an unconscionably long time in topping yourself. How many Januses can you fit into one anus? Twisted loser. Guffaw, guffaw! Just kidding. You rock! JK, no, I’m unfamiliar with Muse. Thanks for the tip. [Rudy&Out]

By HIDT

November 21, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

Butt leak. That’s funny. I’m the pseudo-Van to your psycho-Van. Sincerely, happy Thanksgiving.

By Jim Wooten

November 21, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

When the Wright airplane is cells in a Petrie dish, cells in a Petrie dish should be made to fly.

By Van

November 21, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Jackie, Adult stem cells have produced results. From “Stem Cell Research,” Massachusetts Family Institute, E-Alert, 2004-OCT-14. With these adult stem cells, physicians have successfully treated autoimmune diseases such as lupus, multiple sclerosis, Crohn’s disease, and rheumatoid arthritis. They have also restored proper cardiac function to heart attack victims, and improved movement in spinal cord injury patients. Embryonic stem cells, we are still waiting. Two studies do show promise. Researchers at the University of California healed mouse spinal columns if treated early enough and UK Researchers at University College London have shown progress against Age-related macular degeneration.

By deegee

November 21, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

I am thankful that the godly Earl Paulk did the christian thing after impregnating his sister-in-law so many years ago. This thanksgiving the godly Earl Paulk can break bread with his newly proclaimed progeny and give thanks to God and DNA testing. Amen.

By Glenn

November 21, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

Jackie @ 11:51, I don’t mean to get personal, Jackie, but you’re almost always militant. Are you still wearing the uniform? If so, then please get as militant as you possibly can. If not, then would you “put your pistols into the ground”, as Dylan phrases it? Even we conservatives are, like everyone else, generally trying to do the best we can, in our lives and on this and other difficult and fragile public issues. The expression “sanctity of life” isn’t necessarily a sanctimonious one, though it often is exploited toward that end. It’s just as much a secular expression as a pan-religious one. As applied to ethical matters of public concern, it names a respectable position, usually one of several. I just reread the Hippocratic Oath. The medical profession long ago took an axe to it, but it’s still beautiful in whole. And strikingly relevant to Jim’s column of today. [Rudy&Out]

By time for the anal id stealer

November 21, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

By time for the rock and roll lovin’ truth i see the leftist pondscum queeralicious dogturn peeping tom is not a music lover. in answer to its hiTlary-like question NO. Huge Yes loving SMIRK nice to see the resident feckwipe has NOTHING better to do with its worthless utterly inadequate American oxygen wasting life than attempt to parody the inimitable merciless leftist baiting shtick of yours truly. peeping tom is a queeralicious dogturd … at least get the factual decriptions right U sad little koont!! Now for TODAY’S TOPIC … rock/pop/folk etc music Recent purchases of Mothership - the double cd and dvd version, and The Song Remains The Same - just the double cd version and The Joshua Tree remastered - double cd only have proven worthwhile additions to one’s i-pod. U2 being smug fenian religious types with an anti-American streak are hard to take musically and politically but the Joshua Tree era is a stark exception. The wailing anthems from back then easily being their best attempt at pop tunes. The cd of rarities/B sides etc is very surprisingly mostly quite good. A few little known ‘albums’ worth buying immediately - in no particular order are Quiet Fire - Roberta Flack Stormcock - Roy Harper, with his best mate Jimmy Page on stunning acoustic guitar on The Same Old Rock HQ - Roy Harper Sheet Music - 10cc The Original Soundtrack - 10cc The Voice of Scott McKenzie - get the jap import version cheap on Amazon marketplace. Past Present and Future - Al Stewart Though this album is available with thr almost as good ‘Orange’ as a double remastered cd. Two Weeks Last Summer - Dave Cousins - solo album by the ‘leader’ of The Strawbs. From The Witchwood - The Strawbs. Grave New World - The Strawbs. Love It To Death - Alice Cooper Mocking Bird - The Best Of Barclay James Harvest Donovan - Cosmic Wheels The Best Of Era - ‘electronic Gregorian Chant’ Liege and Lief - Fairport Convention - stunning early English folk/rock Fire and Water - Free (extended version) Book Of Invasions - Horslips. Fenian rock. Very Best Of The Housemartins Jonathan Kelly - Twice Around The Houses - stunning early 70’s debut album. The Kevin Ayers Collection Songs Of Love and Hate - Leonard Cohen - his masterpiece. Mary Chapin Carpet-muncher - Stones In The Road Ozrk Mountain Daredevils - Men From Earth Patty Loveless - Mountain Soul Renaissance - Turn Of The Card Robert PLant - Mighty REarranger Roxy Music - For Your PLeasure Roy Harper - Flat Baroque and Beserk Slade - Greatest Hits Small Faces - The Darlings Of Wapping… double greatest hits cd Stealers Wheel - Stealers Wheel Stever Earle - a true far left commie b astard but Transcendental Blues is excellent Super Tramp - Crime Of The Century - actually not Klinton’s reelection. I have a smallish collection of around 1500 cds so its not possible to post the whole lot on here. Clearly the ‘classic’ likes of the Beach Boys, Beatles, Eagles, Led Zep, Floyd, Bad Co, ELP, Deep Purple, CCR, Oasis etc every one “normal” has heard of. Here U can hear the stunning The Same Old Rock for free off Stormock… Roy and Jimmy at Abbey Rd - just two acoustic guitars and Roy singing. Its my very favourite song of all time. Its almost 11 mins long. The ‘same old rock’ is “religion” - this makes the song more accessible. Lyrically its for me better than any interleckkktual Dylan dirge!! Also listen to Hallucinating Light which is much shorter - off the HQ album. A brilliant gentle folk rock number. http://www.myspace.com/harperroy Happy Thanksgiving to virtually all of the folks on here … just a handful of exceptions of course - U know who U are!! smirk

By Van

November 21, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

deegee, We are still waiting for Teddy boy to do the right thing.

By Jackie

November 21, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

Glenn @12:17 PM I would disagree with your characterization of my being “militant” in most cases. I fail to see where I am being militant in my post, merely pointing out the promise of stem cells and the roadblocks that have been placed in their use. I think your characterization of me should be vigilant. If I fail to point out and protect my citizenship, who will?

By Glenn

November 21, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

tftt, thanks for the good list and link. I concur on “Songs of Love and Hate”. SOLAH, Selah. Layla, too. A word to the wise: it’s toadally a bummer trying to find just one b*** Beach Boys album, man, ‘cause there are like more than a hundred of those things and they’re like a Yanqui take on Mexican food, man. Same righteous ingredients just mixed in different toadally tasty ways. So just hit the record store and pick one or surf some awesome curl on the Net. There’s no such thing as a bad wave, man. Happy Thanksgiving.

By Glenn

November 21, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

Jackie, you are vigilant. And it drapes well on you. Moreover, when you protect your citizenship even as a civilian, you are continuing to protect mine. In strictly transactional terms I owe you. That last post repeatedly imputed base political motives to conservatives wary of embryonic stem cell research. Isn’t it obvious that their motives are sincerely moral in whole or in large part? Even G.W. Bush, in the first encounter with a domestic controversy of his presidency, gave an utterly candid, kind and reasoned address to the nation on the various sides of this issue. (In my opinion it was the best thing he has done during his incumbency.) Then, 9/11, and the morbidity set in to that man, mortifyingly.

By Curious Observer

November 21, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

It’s so delightful to see a list of the music the demented listen to. Thanks, TFTT, and I hope you get stuffed up some turkey’s anal cavity tomorrow.

By ron

November 21, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this

Have a good Thanksgiving,Jim.You too children.

By time for the truth

November 21, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

Glenn I saw what’s left of the Beach Boys up in Rome a few years during a monsoon like severe thunderstorm - they were superb. It was the Mike Love “wing”, with only Bruce Johnstone and session musicians. I have virtually all the Beach Boys ‘albums’ - except all the endless compilations on cd. My first ever rock concert when I was rather young was seeing The Beach Boys in London Xmas 1970 at what used to be the Finsbury Park Astoria but became the world famous Rainbow Theatre. I also saw the BB at the Royal Festival Hall in London a few years later. I ended up sitting with my mate behind the stage next to Carl Wilson’s wife with freebie tickets as our tickets had a badly restricted view. Their later stuff has been very patchy - like the queeralicious Elton John who’s early stuff was also very very good. Happy Thanksgiving mate.

By Glenn

November 21, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

Thanks tftt. I so envy your concert experiences. I agree, excessive copulation produced a surfeit of compilation.

By time for the sickening truth about the sickster peeping tom

November 21, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

doubtless the sicko child molestor peeping tom’s list of musical heroes doesn’t extend much beyond Liberace, The Osmonds, Barry Manilow, The Spice Girls and The Partridge Family!! Whilst its continuously playing with itself, surrounded by its huge obsessive collection of explicit Girl George and photoshop contrived nude early Shirley Temple posters. GFY peeping tom and don’t “gobble” too many turkeys - bestiality is still illegal - even in your secure mental hospital ward!!

By time for the sickening truth about the sickster peeping tom

November 21, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

U can’t keep peeping tom* from following its true depraved nature!! lets hope the court finally orders chemical castration at peeping tom’s next hearing: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071121175026.5x7ast84&show_article=1

By deegee

November 21, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

Van, every time you inject “Teddy boy” into a discussion it has the same effect as saying “I know you are but what am I”. There is no excuse for what he did but the people of Massachusetts have re-elected him over and over again. You are as predictable as goofey toofey. BTW, aren’t we celebrating thanksgiving because we risked our lives by running 3,000 miles away from his sort and survived against all odds?

By Van

November 21, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

deegee, I do that to make a point when someone like you drift of on a wild tangent. What a member of the cloth steps all over his own “…”. I could not make th connection to stem cell research -so I threw a teddy boy reference in as a proper retort.

By Glenn

November 21, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

deegee, we were running away from the hot and cold wars of religion, and toward The New Jerusalem. For I will go out, and carve a tunnel of hope through the mountain of despair! Yes, I will go out and speed up that New Day when all God’s children, black men and white, Jews and gentiles, Catholics and Protestants will be able to join hands and sing with the negroes in the spiritual of old, “Free at last, free at last, thank God almighty!I am free at last!* See, even in 1963, the ushering in of the Kingdom of God, the New Creation, the Lion with the Lamb, the Square Deal, the New Deal, the Fair Deal, the New Frontier, and since then the Great Society, the New Millennium, and on and on ad infinitum, ‘til Kingdom come.

By deegee

November 21, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

Sure, Van. That clears things up for me.

By Craig

November 21, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

Thanks for your 10:55, Glenn. I may have to elevate you in level of my esteem to the the same place as Redneck Convert and THE Captain.

By time to expose the moronic dishonesty of bigoted lefties

November 21, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

U sad pathetic brainless LYING cow heebeedeegee The early religious intolerant nutters who came here were escaping from equally intolerant religious nutters in England and the rest of Europe. If U think that any kind of a puritan, anabaptist, papist or the various strand of proddies back then was not some kind extremist of religious nutter in the unbelievably superstitious intolerant dogmatic 17th century then U are even more sick and twisted and dishonest than I gave U credit for being!! Puritan: A member of a group of English Protestants who in the 16th and 17th centuries advocated strict religious discipline along with simplification of the ceremonies and creeds of the Church of England. puritan One who lives in accordance with Protestant precepts, especially one who regards pleasure or luxury as sinful.

By jbmlaw

November 21, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

Good afternoon all, I’ll mention two items that ought to be on your mp3 players if you are looking to fill space: Chris Squire’s solo “Fish Out of Water” and Jon Anderson’s Christmas album “Three Kings.” And all of the Jon and Vangelis cds were great, but there is a “greatest hits” that has both “State of Independence” and “I’ll Find My Way Home” plus some of the lighter material. I recently bought myself an Ion turntable with a USB connection, and am ripping my 600 albums in the basement.

By Dusty

November 21, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

Well, I seem to have a great “admirer” who thinks he/she/it needs to post for me. So at 10:14 when I was far far away from this wonderful computer, the brainless one has given us his precious words with my ID attached. What a giver!! Ding ding!! What a turkey!! Bigger than the twenty pounder that I have awaiting Thanksgiving! But, to this child and all other children (and the few adults who can still think here) have a good one. When my turkey arises in golden glory I shall remember all of you. And so, as Tiny Tim observed,”God bless Us, Every One!”

By Curious Observer

November 21, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

Anyone who believes that the Puritans were merely escaping persecution in Europe is delusional. The truth is that they were the most intolerant band of religious nut-cases on earth. Read a little about what happened in 1682 to some unfortunate people who were pointed out as witches and warlocks by a pair of girls. Google Roger Williams. After that bit of research, compare the Puritans to the Christian fundamentalists of today. You may be surprised by the similarities.

By time for the truth

November 21, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

jbm I saw Yes in 1971 at the Crystal Palace concert bowl. + Elton John, Rory Gallagher, and Fairport Convention. This was a little before Rick Wakeman joined them and after he left The Strawbs. I was at the live recording (there were two concerts the same day - I was at the 6pm “shift”) of Wakeman’s album Journey The Centre Of The Earth in London - RFH I seem to recall. If memory serves it was Peter Ustinov who did the narration sitting in a huge chair in the middle of the orchestra. The Yes Album is my fave album of theirs. Yours Is No Disgrace and Starship Trooper amongst the best rock not so well known album tracks recorded in the 70’s. Along with Phoenix by Wishbone Ash who I saw at the Ally Pally xmas 1973?? Happy Thanksgiving mate.

By Jackie

November 21, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

Glenn @12:52pm That last post repeatedly imputed base political motives to conservatives wary of embryonic stem cell research. Isn’t it obvious that their motives are sincerely moral in whole or in large part? I believe that most conservatives, especially those with a position of political leadership, believe that abortion is something that is amoral. However, their moral outrage has continued to be a political stick that is used to beat those of us who do not believe abortion is amoral. For all of us that do not believe that a child is formed at conception, there is a disconnect in what is portrayed by the conservative leaders and what science and common sense tell us. A simple question puts the argument of conception and abortion in a different light. I ask anyone to explain to me when does conception begin and how is this proven?

By Jackie

November 21, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

@Glenn An example of my vigilance: Q: Do you think the nation’s economy is getting better, getting worse, or staying the same? Better Worse Staying the same No opinion Current 7 68 25 1 Jan. 14, 2007: Best of 2007 18 34 45 2 Nov. 1, 1990: All-time low 4 77 19 0 Long-term avg. 20 39 40 1 More information on the Washington Post-ABC News Consumer Comfort Index can be found here.

By Van

November 21, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

Curious Observer, Actually, they were very tolerant. Not everyone on the Mayflower was a Puritan. Miles Standish was a former military officer and not afraid of a fight. Christopher Jones, the ships Captain wasn’t nor was John Alden the cooper for the expedition. If they were so intolerant, why were outsiders part of the colonist. Befriending the local Wampanoag Indians was not a show of intolerance either. In looking at the whole settling of the eastern seaboard, we find a vast array of different religions seeking the freedoms they did not have in England or Europe.

By Phil

November 21, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

Mr. Wooten, You ask about stem cell research and federal funding for such. Do you pose this question in order to gain some insight into how this issue might be received and/or abused under the guise of a question and answer session with potential candidates? Surely you know as well as most should that there are ample scientists and monies available world-wide to support this effort for as long as necessary. I simply cannot imagine, for example, that one could not approach an organization such as the Gates Foundation with a well posited plea and ultimately receive funding sufficient for a lifetime of research. Therefore, what true purpose is served in bringing forth such a question unless you fear that the results of such research in any format other than government-backed would ultimately lead to products available to the wealthy few. So, you tell me. Where am I left (or right as the case may be)?

By deegee

November 21, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

Van @3:21 Actually, they were very tolerant. Not everyone on the Mayflower was a Puritan. Miles Standish was a former military officer and not afraid of a fight. HAHAHAHA! I am so tolerant that I will beat the crap out of you!!

By Glenn

November 21, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

Jackie, that is the question, and my answer is that I don’t know. The Superdupes have wanted to put it at the “point of viability”, but as Madame Justice O’Connor pointed out, that target moves with improvements in medical science. Judges don’t like moving targets any more than you and I do. I agree with many others, including a couple of bloggers from the other day’s string, who think that that is the question we have to be vigilant about. In the meantime, given my faith and sex, and the fact that the danger to human life may be mortal, it seems that I have no moral “choice” but to err on the side of (apolitical) conservative caution. I don’t doubt your view that conservatives continue to play Holier than Thou on the question of when life begins. (For that matter feminist separatists and their immitators like to play More Radical than Thou on this issue.) But I’d like to report to you that I and a couple of my friends with whom I’ve discussed the matter note a definite increase in civility and even empathy on the part of those of us who are hung up on the sanctity of life. This may be an historically significant development, if it furthers the kind of “vigilance” and respectful discussion that you exemplify. As for your other question, I think the economy’s worse than it was six months ago, a very fine and high bar indeed. Let’s see how the holidays go for the retail and travel sectors. Speaking of which, did you happen to know that virtually all manufactured and mass-marketed Christmas ornaments are made in China? Guess who makes them: Christian covicts doing labor for exercising their religion. No kidding. Bet their loaded with toxic materials, too. Am I the Grinch Who Politicized Christmas, or are they? [Rudy&Out]

By Van

November 21, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

deegee, I always knew you were a leftie. Why would a people escaping from a rigid society form one just as rigid? Yes, he fought in many battle in the low countries before being hired as the military captain for the new colony. In February, 1621, he was appointed the first commander of the Plymouth colony.

By Glenn

November 21, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this

Rory Gallagher! I’d forgotten. Reminds me pungently of my best friend in high school, a pot dealing gonzo writer who went to UGA and became a newspaper hack like me. We were so stoned at the Gallagher concert that I don’t remember anything other than going. We actually went there straight, but we had some press passes to the backstage and…well you know the rest, I hope, because I don’t. Rory Gallagher. The thinking doper’s Peter Frampton. I’ll be damned.

By Jackie

November 21, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this

@Glenn, I have no problem with conservatives having any attitude they choose. I have a problem when they try to make us believe in their way of thinking. We all tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to human life. We do have an obligation to determine the consequences of future events in the case that the child in question is born. In that respect, the moral question is, what course of action is to be taken to best deal with the dilemma? Does the mother have an abortion, or, does the child come into the world that brings associated financial, social and ethical problems with the event and birth?

By Einstein

November 21, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

Happy Thanksgiving.

By Glenn

November 21, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Jackie, I agree with you, and with the way you put it. One gripe: the bipolar options you list are artificially constraining. That isn’t to say that millions of American women have faced that very dilemma—and I wholeheartedly embrace those caught between such forceps—but that We the Peeps, united or in any groups at all, have to come to their aid, and offer it in the form of more and better options. Many people already do this, but not enough. For my own part, I’ve supported such efforts in the past but am doing too little. Let me come at this through another window. After Katrina, a many-flavored gumbo of relief workers and volunteers, some effective, some incompetent; some altruistic, some mercenary; some secular, some religious; some governmental, some civilian; some for gain, some for pain. Point is, nobody was checking on whether the person with her hand outstretched fell into any particular combination of these categories. It was simply that some Americans needed help and others came to help them, whether from down the highway or across the country. That’s what I want. And that’s what I want very much to be a part of for women caught in the forceps of the dilemma you describe. P.S. I happen just now to be working on a plan for one small aspect of post-Katrina work. The first couple of relevant post-Katrina reports showed that, once again, it was the Salvation Army Emergency Disaster Services units which came through with colors flying. A couple years ago a business school dean accepted a grant to take a year’s sabbaticcal and write a book. He wanted to identify the best-run corporation in America. To his dismay, it turned out to be the Salvation Army, a 501(c)(3) ministry derived, like Alcoholics Anonymous, from the Methodist churches. That’s the same Salvation Army that Nancy Pelosi has decided unconstitutionally to hassle. And yes, she is that big of an a-ss.

By Peter

November 21, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

Speaking of shows, since the topic is silly….. YES in the Round …..Madison Square Garden Jethro Tull….. April fools day New Haven Coliseum Any of the (4) New Orleans Jazz festivals I attended, but in particular one time I saw Boz Scaggs there, and he was wow ! Check out the Dirty Dozen Brass band sometime, they rock as well ! Happy Thanksgiving to all…….even the Far Wrongs !

By From the Desk of Rep. Charles Rangel

November 21, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

You too, toikey.

By TW

November 21, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this

Good afternoon, Glenn - any luck in finding out why Giuliani didn’t resign his post with the firm when it became common knowlege that they work for Hugo Chavez? At first I was just concerned with the relationship, but now I’m wondering if it doesn’t go to bad decision making as well. How about that Huckabee fella? Got to admire the run, huh?

By Jackie

November 21, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

Is the Scott McClellan story too small to discuss? He essentially points the finger at the White House in the leaking of the identify of Valerie Plame. Legal scholars say this conduct is a criminal conspiracy on the part of the White House, worse than the crimes of Richard Nixon. Where is the spineless Congress?

By TW

November 21, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this

Jackie - Dodd called for an investigation. The interesting thing will be how the GOP candidates respond to questions about how the issue should be handled, now that McClellan has opened that door. Though they have pretty much not gotten out of Bush’s bed, this’ll really be make or break, I would think.

By jbmlaw

November 21, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

Dear TFTT @ 2:58, I am impressed. I have four Wakeman albums, including Journey, of course. Wonder what ever happened to Wakeman?

By Jackie

November 21, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

John Bolton, one of the neo-cons is speaking out advocating a strike on Iran. The professional US military is against this move as they say we do not have the manpower to bring about such a move. What is to happen if these folks, Bush and Cheyney, go forward with this insane policy?

By jbmlaw

November 21, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

One last totally irrelevant note, everyone is discussing particular concerts. A funny coincidence for Mrs. jbmlaw and me, we attended a concert in 1973 opened by Jim Croce, followed by the Doobie Brothers, followed by Loggins and Messina. Coincidence because we did not know each other, sat one row apart. Most people today know only the Doobies, but all three were big acts in the early 1970s. Off to celebrate our 30th tonight, have a great holiday all.

By Glenn

November 21, 2007 6:40 PM | Link to this

Hi TW, Yes. Let me give you what I have so far and answer any questions you might have. I’m going to keep looking into it, not because it’s intriguing but because it’s simply difficult with the resources I’ve currently got. I went through all the TX state records for lobbying activity in the relevant months (2/05-10/07) involving either the firm, Citgo, or any of the individuals mentioned or quoted in press reports as being on the ground in Austin. I also searched for, and did not find, any reports on Citgo’s possible interest in legislative activity in TX. I’d still like to fill some gaps until I feel the story’s airtight, but so far it looks like this: RG leaves ofc. and joins Bracewell’s firm as Partner. The Bracewell firm is huge, with hundreds of attorneys in cities throughout the U.S. Hereafter I’ll call it BG, for Bracewell Giuliani. RG’s work evidently has been limited to the firm’s NYC HQ, where he specializes in “negotiation” (?) and real estate law. I don’t (yet) know how much he has earned or is paid, but it appears that even before his campaign efforts he did not spend a great deal of time doing the work of BG. He is evidently, at least in name, in charge of some large projects. BG has an office in Austin, and it seems that about half its work involves the Texas Legislature. (Damn I wish Ivins were still alive; whatever she’d write on this would be the last word, and funny too.) Citgo was not founded by the Venezuelan government, but rather the Texas-based American corporation was bought by El Scumbag & Co. three years ago. Prior to Venezuela’s ownership the company did retain a small-time, one-man lobbying office (not a law firm), to keep tabs on TX legislation. The guy earned $55,000/yr. to assure them montly like clockwork that those criminaloid yahoos were not going to steal any of Citgo’s cheese. He never lobbied for them, though he did take some legislative staffers to lunch from time to time. When Caracas took over the company they eventually got around to doing things in Hugoid and Texan fashion: big. They fired the Maytag Repairman and retained one of Austin’s prestigious firms, the local office of BG, to do the scoping work. Last year they paid BG a retainer of $50K and a base annual fee of $100K, to be supplemented according to any special assignments. By the end of next month, BG will have earned $250, including the retainer, from Citgo. Whether these sums and terms indicate Citgo’s intention to launch some kind of legislative initiate, or whether instead they merely reflect the Caracans’ profligacy I don’t know. Citgo has been paying for the same monthly reports, which continue to be made on schedule. The records show that no lobbying has been performed, only the yahoo-watch and one lunch with a staff person, whose meal cost the firm $24. A fee of $100K/yr. is not unusual for legislative intel work by a law firm in a large state with a full-time legislature. It would be a remarkable bargain were it to pay for any actual lobbying. The BG firm’s spokesperson has addressed the matter only once, on the day the story hit the Wall St. Journal as a result of initial reporting the day before by CNN.com, whose essentially misleading claims were quoted by the WSJ. The response from BG was that Rudy had nothing to do with any of the activities of the Austin ofc., and was quite unfamiliar with any of the work done by that particular ofc. of BG. RG has since denounced El A*******wipe in no uncertain terms. All of the press reporting and blogging, etc. on this topic that I could find has derived entirely from one or both of the initial reports by CNN and WSJ. The story has of course been both degraded and embellished as it makes the rounds; so, for example, it is reported that—and to save time this sentence will be a composite of separately misreported details—“The Houston office of Rudy Giuliani’s law firm has been receiving $250K/yr. to lobby for Hugo Chavez.” It’s not the Houston office, but the Austin one. It’s legit but misleading to say that it’s Giuliani’s firm, since Bracewell built the massive thing and Giuliani only recently joined as partner. The firm has not yet received $250K, much less that sum annually. The firm was not hired to lobby and has not done any legislative advocacy for Citgo, though I’m sure that, notwithstanding the appearance of wrong doing, they would be happy to get the lobbying business should the need arise. There is no evidence that Hugo Chavez has anything to do with Citgo TX’s legislative watch.