Thinking Right

By Rick in Lawrenceville

November 6, 2007 8:42 AM | Link to this

Our elections are open to significant voter fraud. Boards of Elections across the country have not been checking the citizenship of voters. This is one of the essential requirements of voting in any local, state, or federal elections. Most Boards of Elections will readily admit that citizenship checks are not being done.

This opens up the possibility that voter fraud by non-citizens/illegal aliens could affect the outcomes of many political races across the country, especially with the number of close elections.

The following states currently grant or in the recent past have granted drivers licenses to illegal aliens:

(1) New Mexico (2) Maine (3) Hawaii (4) Michigan (5) Oregon (6) Utah, has issued a different type of license to illegal aliens after 2005 (7) Washington (8) Maryland (9) North Carolina until August, 2006 (10) Tennessee until May, 2007

Elections in these states are certainly open to fraud by illegal aliens since they possess government issued photo identification needed to cast a ballot at a polling center.

Elections in other states are at risk due to the reciprocity agreements between states to exchange drivers licenses between these states and those that do not “originally” grant these licenses to illegal aliens. These new drivers licenses are granted without citizenship checks.

Voters are signing affidavits affirming their US citizenship under penalty of perjury. However, significant numbers of illegal aliens have procured and presented false documents for employment purposes and to obtain other benefits given only to US citizens. This evidence suggests that the mere penalty of perjury will not deter non-citizens from falsely affirming their US citizenship for voting purposes. They have a large stake in the outcomes of local, state, and federal elections.

I ask what will be done to prevent voter fraud from non-citizens affecting the outcomes of our election processes?

By Glenn

November 6, 2007 8:42 AM | Link to this

Ah, education. “The great mumbo-jumbo and cure-all of our times!”

By Lyn

November 6, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this

I sense that many don’t understand the source of consternation coming from minority groups—especially African-Americans.

It’s true that more whites are poor than blacks. But, most blacks are poor while most whites are not. (It’s important to understand this mathematical distinction). As a result, policies that create additional hardships for the poor disproportionately affect the black community and disproportionately do not affect whites.

So, for me, it’s clear why blacks feel discriminated against and are more vocal when unnecessary obstacles to climbing out of poverty are created.

By Camus

November 6, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

Wooten notes that 49% of African-American Atlantans have credit ratings pegged as sub-prime, while only 16% if whites rate this poorly. But our resident dissembler never takes the time to question why that might be. Surely Wooten is not suggesting that blacks are inherently less responsible than whites, that this statistical disparity results solely from black shiftlessness and disregard for social norms.

Far be it for a blinkered conservative to ask if, perhaps, there is some cause underlying this disparity that is systemic and entrenched.

The subprime crisis goes well beyond black and white, and exemplifies many aspects of class disparity not seen since the massive foreclosures of the late 20s - early 30s. And because the question of race in this country has always been inextricably tied to issues of economics and class, it is impossible to address honestly without a clear discussion of how institutional racism has served to create our current class structure.

The easy anecdotes about people who bought mcmansions when it was financially foolish provide stories akin to Reagan’s Cadillac driving welfare queens buying vodka with food stamps; that is, a convenient fairy tale that allows the Wootens among us to pretend that this problem is about personal irresponsibility, particularly the myth-confirming shiftlessness of black people.

Wooten may wish there were no racial component to this issue. But you can wish in one hand and $hit in the other…tell me which one fills up first.

By TW

November 6, 2007 8:55 AM | Link to this

Kudos to Mr. Wooten for reaching across the aisle with his admission that education is the key.

We all know too well what lack of education will do - and not just in how it translates to the lending woes.

In 2004, the ten states with the lowest SAT scores ALL voted for the re-elction of Republican George W. Bush.

Yes, Mr. Wooten, I’d say this country is long over due for some education.

By No Laughing Matter

November 6, 2007 8:59 AM | Link to this

Of course there is no discrimination in the world. Who better to tell us that plain truth than a older, white, upper class Southerner who is just slightly to the left of David Duke? Thanks, Jim, for your candidness and forthrightness. We can rest easy knowing the principle of “all men are created equal” lives on.

By jbmlaw

November 6, 2007 9:05 AM | Link to this

Good morning all. I have been in banking more than 30 years, in various capacities. Jim suggests “discrimination may sometimes be real…” I will confirm the truth of that allegation, but just barely. In my regulator days I worked in more than 300 banks, and I remember an arguable allegation of racial discrimination in one, and a sustainable charge of age discrimination in another. Bankers are a greedy lot, and truly the only color they care about is “green.”

So why do black folks leave bills unpaid, or file bankruptcies, in numbers disproportionate to the income level? And why is a delinquency on an eastern asian’s credit report remarkable? Jim affirms the problem is the secret handshake, that Japanese- and European-Americans know something about financial management not taught in African-American homes. I don’t have a better explanation, but realistically I don’t care.

The careful selection of risks among the high risk community is a glorious profit opportunity; by finding diamonds among the coals, I can make a pile of money, by ensuring access to credit markets for people who are shut out otherwise. I am a “predator” in the leftist lingo, and my clientele is grateful for me. Of course, the national socialists are trying to close my loophole, and shut out entirely the subprime customer.

By One

November 6, 2007 9:06 AM | Link to this

Jim, you’re an ignorant racist, if I ever saw one! Education? Remember the days when blacks were not allowed to get an education, no matter how badly they wanted one. Remember how they were beaten and hosed and hung, because they were not even considered to be a whole person (less than 100%)!! Fast forward to today, and the discriminating ways blacks are continually denied something they are entitled to just because they’re not thought to be “good enough”! And you have the nerve to spout this ignorance!!!! Jim, this is truly your lowest moment……….as well as the AJCs!!!!

By jbmlaw

November 6, 2007 9:09 AM | Link to this

Closely related to the topic, philosophically:

My favorite curmudgeon, Tom Sowell, has a great essay this morning, “Stop ‘Making a Difference.’” Even our leftist friends might by amused by his not-entirely-political rant. http://www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/archive.shtml

By Subterranean

November 6, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this

These sub-prime loans should have never been allowed. They were tailored to appeal to 1) those who could not realistically afford a home loan, 2) those who, driven by greed, would bite off more than they should, or 3) those who were gambling that they could buy low and sell high. The first group probably deserves some sympathy and assistance in the form of loan restructuring and credit counseling. The other two groups, as well as the fast-buck companies that offered the loans deserve every hard knock that a market-driven economy can throw at them.

Regarding the racial component of the story, it is unfortunate that many use the battle-cry of prejudice to obviate personal responsibility. Alas, the so-called civil rights leaders have a vested interest in perpetuating a victim-mentality. The day we have a color-blind society is the day they are unemployed.

By Carrie

November 6, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this

The problems arising out of improperly underwritten subprime loans and predatory lending aren’t limited to the borrower. The small investor is impacted as well, and all the education in the world couldn’t have helped us determine if our mutual fund was riskier than the rating agencies claimed.

Wooten’s education proposal is sound, but the solution shouldn’t stop there. Like so many right-wing ideologues, Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan chose not to do his job as regulator by enforcing the Home Ownership and Equity Protection Act (HOEPA) which obligated him to stop unfair and deceptive lending practices. In fact, this highly educated man was verbally encouraging subprime lending and taking credit for a housing boom (but accepts no blame as it begins to burst).

By Ben

November 6, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this

In a slightly different world, this column might be defending brokers from commenters who think bankers are coldhearted because they won’t give home loans to high risk borrowers. Oh wait, that happened like 10 years ago, which is why we got sub-prime loans, to help poor people at the behest of politicians and activists. Then when they high-risk loans went belly-up (big surprise), the only people not blamed are the ones who signed on the dotted line.

By Glenn

November 6, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this

Camus, your argument is pristine, in my opinion, and Lyn’s preceding explanation makes a nice lead-in.

By Curious Observer

November 6, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this

It stands to reason that a social group consisting mostly of poor and poorly educated individuals—in this case African-Americans—is likely to have more credit problems than a social group that has a lower proportion of poor and poorly educated people—in this case Caucasians. The disparity is indeed racial, but not inherently so. We have only succeeded in moving from blatant red-lining and job discrimination to more subtle forms of racial and economic discrimination—in job opportunities, in educational quality, and in family support functions undertaken by governmental entities. All this decline has occurred within a context of the imposition of Republican values—e.g., pile billions in tax cuts upon the most economically stable class, while withdrawing government support for the poorest among us—taking away welfare, educational grants, government-supported health care, and just about any other government program that might give a black person a helping hand to climb the social ladder.

What Wooten neglects to mention in his contrast of Asian-Americans and African-Americans is the quite obvious difference in the educational experiences and attitudes toward education of those two groups.

In short, Wooten’s implicit condemnation of blacks is the equivalent of the child molester’s castigation of the police for not protecting children better. Wooten wants to pretend that there is no reason, other than poor decision-making, that African-Americans form such a large proportion of those caught in the sub-prime mortgage meat-grinder. In fact, it is the political policies that Wooten advocates that account for the continued miring of African-Americans in poverty and inability to afford homes. Got a problem with the low quality of education in predominately black schools? Well, the solution is to give wealthier white people vouchers to get their children out of those schools. See large numbers of unwed black mothers giving birth to children? Well, the solution is to take away as much government support for those children as possible. Fewer blacks going to college? Well, take away Pell grants and other forms of government scholarship assistance. And whatever you do, don’t try to address the problem of the low proportion of home ownership among African-Americans by using government support programs, as the Democrats did with the $2,000 tax credit for home-buying.

And so, the racists among us—that includes Dusty, jbmlaw, tftt, and of course Wooten—want to pretend that every racial group has an equal opportunity to buy homes. Perhaps we also should take a look at the greed existing among the brokers who arranged those sub-prime loans, knowing that those “adjustable” mortgages would soon render the new homeowner unable to repay them. Above all, go look in your mirror, Republicans, to view the principal source of the problem.

By Despise Lies

November 6, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

While I agree that education does in fact need to happen, it extends far beyond money, but to everything in else in life that requires you to be responsible. When purchasing a dvd player, automobile, or basically any kitchen appliance, one receives a owners manual or instruction booklet to “teach” you how to operate it to the best of it’s ability, however for life, babies, money, etc. we are just set free to “figure it out”. Based on past generations, the emphasis in black homes is placed upon surving one day to the next, and not so much on “the secret handshake” mentioned earlier. When the aspects of how money “works” are taught things can begin to turn around eventually. The same will ring true for rearing children and so forth. Unfortunately in contrast to Jim W’s analogy, it may include taking a step backwards and providing governmental input in order for this segment of society to take two steps forward. Being a Black American, but being an American first, I can attest that this is a generational curse and not solely based upon “bad” choices.

By BUD

November 6, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

IN MY HOEMTOWN PEOPLE BOROWW MONEYS TO BUY A BIG HOUSE AND THEN THEY KEEP BOROWWING MORE MONEYS TO BUY NEW CARS ADN BIG SCREEN TVS AND OTHER STUFF BECUASE THATS HOW YOUR SUPPOSED TO LIVE. THEY CANT PAY THIER BILLS BUT THATS OK THEY JUST FILE BANKRUPCY AND GET TO KEEP ALL THAT STUFF FOR FREE. THEY JUST LAUGH AND SAY PLYING BY THE RULES IS FOR CHUMPS BECUASE THE GOVERMNENT WILL BALE THEM OUT.

By Adam

November 6, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

The underlying story here is an example of agenda driven news reporting. While the particular subject changes daily, the agenda is constant. Everything is reported in terms of “blacks, women and children hardest hit”. Rather that simply reporting facts, all stories are written with the oppressor vs victim slant. It may be just the “making a difference” attitude of reporters that compels them to view themselves as world saviors constantly fighting the good fight on behalf of their democratic idealism. Or it may be inept lazy reporting, simply taking press releases straight from advocacy groups without question or independent analysis or thought.

Whatever it is, the pattern in newspapers and TV news has become predictable and mindnumbingly boring. Agenda driven reporting is what is driving down readership and network ratings.

By itismeagain

November 6, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

The reason subprime loans were attracted to anyone is that it resulted in a low monthly mortgage payment to start with and folks so it as an opportunity to have more money in their pocket each month. Instead of using the “extra” money in the pocket toward the mortgage or “saving” it for a rainy day. The money was spent more than likely for other non-essential things. All of this was done with no forethought to the day that their mortgage would jump sky high!! While more blacks fell prey to this than whites … lets face it in there is always going to be one group “less” than another group. There is always going to be better atheletes from one race than another race. There is always going to be more crime in one race than another race. When comparing groups … there is always going to be a group that will be on the bottom. Does this equate to racial disparity! If you took a group of white children and divided them into groups and put them through an obstacle course, there would be a group who would be last. What does that mean? Does it mean that the group has been discriminated against? Does it mean they weren’t provided the same opportunities as the others. When comparing groups there will always be a group that is less than others whether regardless of the comparisons.

blacks are in the subprime loan situation is that they know what they are doing … . they just wanted to take advantage of low monthly payments in order to have more money in the pocket to spend.

By Glenn

November 6, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

jbm, good morning. Thanks for the link that’s got Sowell. (As they said on “The Mod Squad”, “Linc’s got soul!”) The background of TS’s overdue rebuke is amusing. At the university where he works, something called the Public Service Center (PSC) annually holds its “You Can Make a Difference!” conference. The title’s pure-form callowness alone is enough to make one such as Tom Sowell report to the campus clinic. The PSC asked yours truly to organize the second annual conference, and I accepted with honor and with the proviso that they name the thing “You Can’t Make a Difference (but do it anyway)”. Amazingly, the PSC took this jest under advisement, conferred upon it, and reported that it had decided to maintain its year-old tradition. So I didn’t get to be the bigshot of do-gooding that year. They took the whole affair so seriously that my girlfriend Vera and I used the material as a darkly funny inside joke long afterward. She now holds a position not unlike Dr. Sowell’s, and I imagine her picking up the paper in Palo Alto in an hour or two and laughing adorably at his good column.

By ron

November 6, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

By One,what are blacks entilted to?I was entilted to get off my lazy a$$ and go to work,raise my family and pay my bills.That’s the only entitlement I ever had.And the only one I ever needed.If blacks are entitled to anything other than that,I want it too.

By Truthifier

November 6, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

Wow, for the first time ever, I have found nothing to disagree with in Jim’s blog! And in fact, I don’t understand the posts charging him with racism and for some implication that blacks are “shiftless.” I didn’t read that anywhere in his posting today. I read that education is key. While I’m financially sound now, I know that in my younger years I certainly could have used some financial education and guidance. I think we all could. What’s racist about that?

By les

November 6, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

Camus,

If Wooten isn’t implying that the black population in this country isn’t responsible for their own woes, I will state it directly. They are. I am sick of all this whining. Oh, poor pitiful me. My ancestors were enslaved, therefore, for centuries and millenia to come I have an excuse to reject education and self-improvement. I have a permanent excuse to behave hideously and reject all efforts to improve my lot.

Someone should say the truth—the education system in this country has been dumbed down and destroyed by the ‘feel good’ patrol. Instead of improving the lot of blacks, we have gutted our entire society to make them ‘feel good’.

Therefore, don’t cry crocodile tears over idiots who have lost their shirts over subprime mortgages. If acquiring knowledge is considered by ‘black leaders’ as acting ‘white’, is the opposite argument, acting stupidly the same as acting black?

You can’t have it both ways. Grow up, get smart or live with the consequences of your exalatation of ignorace.

By Camus

November 6, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

Another thought related to today’s topic, with a sincere request for reasoned reply (and perhaps removing race from the equation for the moment).

Sure, we can lament the lack of education that makes individuals bads actors in the game. But my proposition is this:

Our system is designed to create avid consumers and to cultivate consumption, regardless of whether that is an intelligent choice given an individual’s situation. In fact, the cultural education works all too well. The current credit crisis is, in the minds of those behind the policies that led to it, a predictable and acceptable outcome of this policy.

Because the US economy is built upon a vast network of credit, its continued viability is predicated upon steady growth of production and consumption. This constant and increasing consumption by the overall population is the fundamental underpinning of our economy. Without this constant consumption, both dometically and in foreign markets, this house of cards will collapse. Despite the public lamentations over the low rate of savings in our nation, the fact is that if everyone began to save diligently in lieu of buying the latest hdtv/xbox/groovy car, our economy would collapse.

This particularly includes the housing market, one of the main drivers of the economy. People “own” a home; the pool of potential “homeowners” expands due to choices made by the credit market (with the explicit encouragement of Greenspan); property values rise steadily, albeit artificially based upon a variety of factors; people find themselves property rich, which allows them to borrow cash against value, which they can spend on hdtv sets, etc. Meanwhile, non-owners see the owners getting “rich”, and want to join in, thereby driving demand, which increases value on paper, and so on. A lovely pyramid, with about as much solid value rationale as the Dutch tulip market.

This crisis was as predictable as the sun rising in the morning. The policies that led to it (much like the S&L debacle of the 80s) were intentional and deliberate. And the education of the American consumer necessary to support this was efficient and effective.

By Despise Lies

November 6, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this

Are we also negating the fact that this is a segment of society that began this race far, far, far behind the starting point? At no point in history, anyone’s history, has a people endured so much and then been asked to ‘toe” the line just like everbody else. After 400+ years, yes plus, because it still continues even today been required to just work through it in this manner. We are group that become outraged that Barry Bonds may have cheated, the New England Patriots didn’t play fair, Pete Rose didn’t play fair, but at the same time expect Blacks to play the game successfully when we know full well that discrimination still happens!! Yes, it makes us all uncomfortable but don’t allow that to make us discredit it. It happens!! Business is all about money. Predatory lending is a business…, IE all about the money. Does it not beg that they just may be doing something unethical? Hello…Enron, etc. Money is not the root of all evil, however Evil is at the root of money. The holocaust was despicable by any stretch of the thought process, and this group was given reparations to begin anew. (Governmental assit, Jim!) What has been done in the effort to bring this community back up to an acceptable level? More discrimination? Guilt for needing a hand up? You people sicken me!! There is a BIG difference in asking for a hand out, and a hand up. Think about it. Where would the majority be if they had the same exact start? A comfortable situation allows one to look at things differently. I am not starving, so I view hunger very differently from the person who hasn’t eaten today. Go ahead…, think about that one too.

By Glenn

November 6, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

Curiosity,

If Dusty, jbm, tftt (and yesterday @@) are racists, then I’m Spartacus!

By Glenn

November 6, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

Truthifier,

How would you, believing nothing, have anything about which to disagree?

By spaceman109

November 6, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

one notes that in the beginning, subprime mortgage loans were made primarily to the urban poor. then they spread to the ritzy suburbs where the supposedly way more financially responsible people live. well, they were that way at one time. then, as a general rule, those people thought it was cool to keep on cashing in their home equity to finance a wildly extravagant lifestyle. then bad things happened (take your pick: job loss, reduced income, medical bills from illness, death of a spouse) which put them in a situation where they felt compelled to do a subprime mortgage to have even a ghost of a chance to keep their home. therefore, the subprime mortage products spread far beyond their start in urban neighborhoods.

yes, one notices that some ceo’s have been forced out. boo hoo. i am still trying to figure out how i can become a ceo somewhere, be a monumental screwup, and still get paid many millions to just go away

By BS Aplenty

November 6, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

Jim, jbmlaw your comments are spot-on again. I hearby cede all further financial commentary to you both since you have the empowering economic blood of Adam Smith coarsing through your veins.

Camus, Lyn, Glenn, etc. good luck chasing that dream of permanent-victim status.

By ga_tech_92

November 6, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

The topic reeks of the entitlement mentality. I am a single parent, who went into debt to fight for custody of my son. I receive no child support. I had to share a cheapo one bedroom apartment with him with no cable (rabbit ears), no cell phone, no bling, no blang, no long distance, no lunches out with friends for about three years. I also made similar sacrifices to put myself through college before having a child, with no government help, parental help, or otherwise. I kept working hard and showed up to work every day, eventually earning respect and a little more money. Still, I did without a lot of things that I look around and see as “normal” and “expected” things in most people’s lives, because when I added up my income and subtracted my bills, I found that there wasn’t enough left. I could have run up extra debt on credit cards, or filed bankruptcy, etc etc…but I didn’t…what I did was cut out ever expense possible and live as cheaply as I could (older car, etc). Most all of my furniture is stuff I found on the side of the road or was donated by friends as hand-me-down stuff. Not spending every dime you make is called “living under your means”. You must “live under your means” to survive, because there is always some surprise that will bite you and you need to have a little extra money to get it done.

Because I always paid my bills, by living very cheaply and doing without fancy bling or cable or cell phones or pagers or this or that or a base ball bat………..I have good credit. It’s not complicated people. You have good credit because you pay your bills. You pay your bill because you are responsible and live without things you would “like” to have, but instead only live with “what you can afford”.

Yes I’m a white guy. No I have never inherited money nor my forty acres, no I have no dad in my life, yes I worked a job since before I was in high school and no one or nothing helped me get anything I’ve ever gotten in my life (school, etc). After years of working hard and living without what I see most people feel entitled to, I was able to buy a house in a decent neighborhood. I still have the same crappy old car. I still don’t have cable. I still pay my bills. And I bought a lot less house than I was “approved” to buy, because you have to LIVE UNDER YOUR MEANS TO SURVIVE.

It’s not about race people. When you stop your thinking at the word “race”, you stop trying to do for yourself. Get up, work hard, show up every day, be polite, give people more than they expect and do it with a smile on your face, pay your bills, don’t buy anything ever unless it’s a critical need, have fun with your kids, instead of by spending money, educate yourself, even if you have to work night jobs (like I did) to pay your way. Don’t expect the world to hand something to you…don’t expect sympathy for NOT paying your bills…don’t expect me to believe that it is a lot more complicated than this, because there are not programs in place to help middle aged white folks get over some perceived disadvantage…so I had to get better grades to get into the same schools….had to work for every dime, because I wasn’t given college money…but…still…in the end…it’s very simple…add up your income after taxes, etc….and cut out every expense you have that causes you to spend all your money. If your you have a car payment, sell it and pay cash for a cheaper car so you have no car payment. If you are renting a two bedroom apartment with a nice view, get out of it and get a crappy one bedroom with no view and pay your bills with the extra few hundred dollars you just saved. Put that extra money onto paying off debts. DO NOT CARRY DEBT, you are paying someone interest for the luxury of you spending money you didn’t have to spend in the first place…it’s a vicious cycle. Get out of debt….then save up enough to buy a CHEAP house…don’t’ buy a big house just to impress your friends or just because someone will lend you the money……………..LIVE UNDER YOUR MEANS…SACRIFICE what society tells you is your entitlement…DO FOR YOURSELF…like I try to do every day. Now, let me go eat the sandwich I brought from home for lunch, while the rest of my co-workers go out for lunch. You have to do what you can do…but spend less than you make…like some commercial said…”it’s not how much you earn that matters, but how much you save”…saving money is about not spending it in the first place. Lower your bills each month by cutting out everything you can…and downsize…and for God’s sake…don’t have kids if you can’t afford them…they are one of THE most expensive luxuries in the world to have in your life.

By Redneck Convert

November 6, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

Well, all I know is if I want to own a trailer to live in I need to get a job and work for it. Not set around and wait for a guvmint handout. The problem with Those People loosing their home is they wanted to go above their station and buy something they wasn’t suppose to have. If God wanted them to have a house of their own they would of been borned white or leastwise with a deed in their hand.

They need to get out of downtown and get to know the right people. That’s how I got my beer truck job. Meeting a warehouse guy up at Billy Bob’s. Course, I wouldn’t want one of Those People showing up at Billy Bob’s. Maybe they could go to Roswell where all the illegals are and meet the right people and get a job. You see lots of good white Christians loading illegals in their pickup trucks there. And I wouldn’t want one of them to buy a trailer near where I live. We already got one fambly of them here at the trailer park and I have to be on the lookout all the time to keep them away from the missus.

Well, I voted this a.m. The big issue was redevelopment. That’s a fancy word for buying out all the apartments where Those People and the Mexicans live and putting in real expensive houses and shops they can’t afford. It sort of nudges them further north and keeps the area mostly white. Without getting us in trouble with the guvmint.

Well, I’m going to get off of this blog before tftt gets on here and starts blasting Those People and the Mexicans for doing crimes. And probly Dusty will be waking up in a bad mood right about now and lighting into me and this Captain guy and anybody else that don’t suit her. She’s just like a old blind rattlesnake when she’s had too much to drink the night before and wakes up wanting to punch somebody. Have a good day everybody.

By Camus

November 6, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

BS,

I have no sense of being a victim. I use my reason and intelligence, seek out multiple sources of information, and constantly strive to question my assumptions. I pay my bills on time and live within my means. I do without many of the “necessary” luxuries of our day, as do my children. But we have the things we need for a full and rich life.

But the fact that “I’ve got mine” does not excuse me from having compassion for those who do not. Compassion demands that we put ourselves in other peoples’ shoes; compassion demands that we strive to understand what brings people to their condition; compassion demands that we look beyond small-minded distinctions that atomize our society and perpetuate inequity. Compassion demands that we do what we can to alleviate suffering in others, even to the point of assuming some of that suffering to ourselves. The self-professed Christians on this board might vaguely recognize this idea, as would anyone with a grounding in the great religious traditions of the past 2500 years.

People are victimized in our society every day. There are victims around you, constantly. Why would you want to pretend otherwise? Is the strain on your ability to hold compassion too much to bear?

Our survival as a society demands that we practice compassion. Not this empty slogan compassion so favored by the right wing crowd, but true love-thy-neighbor compassion.

But that might be an inconvenience, it might interfere with your rights to live as you please. Never mind.

Or we can keep going the way we’ve been going lately. How’s that working out, anyway?

By les

November 6, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this

Camus,

Your second post was more on target. It is a culture of spend, spend and spend some more. Mostly on credit. I just recently saw a startling fact—that consumer spending represents 70% of the GNP. We used to MAKE things, but then greed sent factories overseas. How do these other countries make such cheap products? Essentially by slave labor (at the pitiful wages paid). So, millions are enslaved today. And they are not black. They are Asians and South Americans.

But the mentality that drives this bizarre buying behavior again, I think, goes back to a lack of real education for the past 30-40 years.

It is a house of cards, and it must collapse. Then we will finally see how things sort out.

By DebbieDoRight

November 6, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

In 2004, the ten states with the lowest SAT scores ALL voted for the re-elction of Republican George W. Bush.Yes, Mr. Wooten, I’d say this country is long over due for some education.

OMG Too funny!!! Best post yet!!

OK here’s another one: jbmlaw now says he is in banking. Hmmmm I thought he was a small claims lawyer. Tomorrow I guess he can be a doctor followed by an indian chief the day after, then in sequential order, he can become a butcher, a baker and a candlestick maker all before the beginning of next week!!!

By jbmlaw

November 6, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

Dear Glenn @ 9:56, funny story, thanks for filling in the gap.

Dear Curious @ 9:46, do you find it odd that everyone is, to you, a racist, except you yourself? You often seem to be the most negatively race-conscious person on the blog.

Dear BS @ 10:14, thanks, but as I admire the substance in your posts, I hope you will not cede on financial argument. Also, I assume it was a mere typo, but there is a clever Randian pun in the final four words of your note to me.

Dear Ga-Tech 92 @ 10:19, an impressive story, my compliments. Clark Howard and Dave Ramsey have nothing on you. I still drive a 1992 Mazda myself, and will do so until the vehicle dies.

By ga_tech_92

November 6, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

I’m reading a lot of emotional whiny responses and some long winded responses with a lot of big words. What I’m not seeing a lot of is practical answers, like the post I put. Billy Bob never gave me a job because I was in good with Jethro. What I DID do was put myself through college by: I had no car, couldn’t afford a car payment, so I rode my bike to school and walked to the grocery store. I worked nights at a local bar after going around to about fifty places looking for work. I showed up to class and work every day and went without a lot of sleep. I used to be jealous of the ‘rich white guys’ partying at the bar I worked nights at, but hey, it’s not in my control and it’s a waste of time to spend energy on jealousy. So, I turned that frustration into harder work…so I stayed up later and worked harder than the other guy to get great grades…I KNOW I wasn’t the smartest guy in school (nor any job I’ve had), because no one has control over the brain God gave you. I did have control over how hard I worked though. I worked harder than most people, and it shows and people appreciated it. If you are a boss, do you promote the hardest working guy, or do you promote the white guy? Give me a break, bosses, schools, life is about working harder than the other guy and keeping a smile on your face, while ignoring the perceived injustices you could frustrate your self by focusing on. Spend your energy on the things in your control, your job, your education, your budget. Get a degree, get a job, work hard, be noticeably better than everyone else at your job by working longer hours and saying “YES” every chance you get. I suspect some of you will say I sound like an Uncle Tom or a “yes” man. That would be very negative way of looking at it and probably the reason you are such a whiner. My mom has no money and will probably never retire. My dad has never been part of my life. The government has never ‘assisted’ me. I’ve busted my ars and worked harder than the people who were given their 40 acres and a mule, years ago. I have never inherited nor will I. I don’t know if I’ll be able to retire, but I’ve got a good job, a good degree and a reasonable house in a good SCHOOL DISTRICT, because THAT was my priority after sacrificing for years to EARN it for MY ONE SON. Please note, I know a lot of people who are in their twenties with houses that their parents mostly paid for. That isn’t “fair” really is it?…well who cares!!! Does it help me to complain, hell no, white guys complaining is laughable, who cares about us right!?!?!? If you want something, sacrifice and work hard for it. You might fail over and over again, but you get up, dust yourself off, and go back at it. If you get upset, then turn that energy into working harder. It took me till I was forty years old to afford a house of my own, renting a room out or a one bedroom apartment was all I could AFFORD to SAVE a little money to put down on a house.

Go to school. Don’t have kids till you can afford them. Graduate. Get a job and out work everyone there every day. Save, instead of spend. You are much better off having 500 in savings for an emergency than you would be having a new VISO High Def Bling Panel TV in your house. It’s about priorities and about turning your focus onto “how can I help myself” instead of “why won’t you help me”….

By Dusty

November 6, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

Aw Jim, I wish you hadn’t done this one. Well, first, I don’t think anybody knows exactly who did what and why. In America, we’ve got all kinds of folks doing all kinds of things in different ways. And being human (all colors), we can think of many excuses on which to blame our mistakes or forget our excellence.

But one thing I do hate. This old line that some are just out of bondage. Yes and ladies are still wearing hoop skirts and riding in carriages. Let’s forget that one because it is dead of old age and antipathy.

Black subprime losers all? Well, the black CEO of Merrill Lynch just left with several million $ goodbye gift. He’s a loser? Thomas Sowell is a loser? Colin Powell? Condi Rice? My black dermatologist? Andruw Jones? Ophra? Some “losers” I must say!!

I just hate these “boxes”. Every group or race has smart ones and those a little less so. Their talents vary. But, in America, we try to encourage all fields of endeavor and hold out our hands to those who are reaching.

As to subprime lending, this too shall pass. It is no ephiphany, just a little bump in our historical road as we move along. Don’t make it something else.

By time for the harsh but unassailable truth

November 6, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

LMFAO!!!

The pitiful despicable rabid desperate racebaiting by the usual hordes of black/leftist afterbirth on here is HYSTERICALLY FUNNY!!

The simple cold harsh truth is this!!

Ordinary blacks that this topic applies too generally speaking - though clearly this is blindingly obviously hardly always the case - are very often much dimmer and stupid than ordinary whites/asians!! Many blacks have a shameful pathetic attitude to education which nauseatingly perpetuates this ignorance which Bill Cosby et al are finally trying - albeit too often in vain - to reverse!!! Combined with the entrenched sullen vile racial spoils attitudes of gimme gimme blacks and the instant screeches of racism when the reality of life hits hard its hardly surprising that blacks end up where they do socio-economically.

Obviously the happily ever growing huge black middle class is JUST as capable as any other folks in society in taking care of themselves. But its the dimmer more stupid blacks that invariably wind up in economic difficulties because they have little or NO concept of how the real world works!! Then smug racebaiting leftist/black scum slither along and tell them its all whitey’s fault and they need to keep voting demoNcrat to stand a chance of getting more freebies and hand outs etc!! A Vicious Cycle - not the excellent Lynyrd Skynyrd album!!

Banks and financial institutions can ONLY lend to those folks who present themselves as customers. And if they REFUSE to lend to dim and stupid blacks they risk getting sued for racism. If they refuse to lend to dim and stupid whites then its NOT racism, just sensible practice!!

Way too many folks - of all colours -live beyond their means, making bad or even criminally stupid financial choices. Ending in eviction, foreclosure, repossession, bankruptcy or whatever. Many blacks -they are obviously hardly the only ones but seem to do this more than most in the areas I am familiar with - move in somewhere renting/buying and when the repayments/rent gets too much or too far behind - if not evicted they do a runner, leaving the landlord/lender picking up the pieces. I’ve been told several by GA Power folks who come to my house to read the meter that this is very common in certain areas and so higher bills are levied at the rest of us to cover deadbeats.

This is an absolutely true story folks. Several years ago I was selling my modest tiny hovel and one of the couples that came to see it, stopping when they saw the Buy Owner sign were middle aged black folks. He was actually called Roosevelt (which I nearly quietly p!ssed myself laughing at - I’d not been here that long and had NOT ever met anyone called that) and his wife was called Mary. They came to the house twice, we showed them around. He had an annual salary sufficient enough to buy the house - he had a job in Marietta as some kind of a skilled mechanic. After the second showing we stood there, pleased they were going to buy the house. They were very nice but extremely simple folks. He then asked me where he needed to sign as he wanted the house. He had NO idea whatever about mortgages and closings and contracts etc. I was stunned, and gently explained that he needed to go get a mortgage, find a lawyer, a bank or mortage company etc. Obviously I didn’t laugh or sneer at him. I was just amazed that at the very end of the 20th century this kind of child like ignorance was still possible amongst middle aged decent hard working people.

By jbmlaw

November 6, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Dear les and Camus @ various times, the Paul Ehrlichs of the world have been forecasting a return to a serf-based agrarian economy for as long as I can remember. Suggest you put everything you have in commodity futures. Let me know how that works out for you.

I intend to continue to invest in the service-based world economy, which relies entirely on those who use credit. In fact, Chinese and Indian banking look to me to be the most promising growth areas over the next two decades.

By DebbieDoRight

November 6, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

Jim, How very “Repuglican” of you to bring up race yet again in one of your forums!!! Kudos to you Jim!! Bloggership down? Bring up race? Wanna stir the pot? Bring up race!! No water in North Georgia? Kids failing in Georgia schools? SonnyDoo making illicit land deals to benefit his coffers? Handel secretly removing registered voters from the rolls? No “Child Porn” conviction for the Douglas County DA? No accountability in the state Capitals? Dumbya trying to start yet another war? Heck who cares about all that?!! Let’s not talk about that — Let’s bring up race!!! That’ll keep the bloggership numbers up!!

For a person who claims that blacks bring up the race card all the time, you must be an honorary member of “The Black Folks Of America Club” ‘cause you bring up racial divisions more than anyone in the south. I guess that repuglican “Southern Strategy” is still working even today!!

Kudos to you Jim!! Don’t forget to take your race card back — you may need it again if your blogging numbers keep going down.

Pssst: Bring up the “non-European”, (read that as non-white), immigration problem tomorrow!! THAT’ll get ‘em riled up!

By jbmlaw

November 6, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

Dear Debbie @ 10:46, I know it is incomprehensible to you that a person can do more than one thing marginally competently, so I won’t waste your time. If you understood that banking is a highly-regulated field, it might make sense to you.

By DebbieDoRight

November 6, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

Yes I’m a white guy. No I have never inherited money nor my forty acres, no I have no dad in my life, yes I worked a job since before I was in high school and no one or nothing helped me get anything I’ve ever gotten in my life (school, etc)

I almost believed your story until you said you were a man. I have YET to see a man sacrifice anything, (other than a condom), when it comes to their pleasure. Nice try though.

By DebbieDoRight

November 6, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

dear jbmlaw @ 10:59 — I understand that you speak with forked tongue. According to you your son was/is an Ensign—however he’s still in College and the college is NOT the Naval Academy; (which technically he couldn’t become an Ensign until he graduated anyway).

I understand you said you were a small claims lawyer, YET you are a banker too. Now, I know plenty of people who’ve changed careers from one profession to another, however I have NEVER heard of someone who used to be a banker, take a step down in life to become a small claims lawyer.

That’s like Miss America becoming the Happy Hooker.

Pssst: You noticed how I married the profession of small claims law with prostitution?!! Pretty cool huh?

By time for the harsh but unassailable truth

November 6, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

SNIGGER SNIGGER SNIGGER … TOO FREAKING FUNNY!!

So now crackpipe debbieturd admits with yet more of its OUT ON BAIL witless puke that its LITERALLY a black racist MAN HATING whoralicious racebaiting dogturd!!!

I guess tomorrow we can bring up the non-human problem - so at least the mexican day labourer BIG GULP expert crackpipe debbie turd won’t feel completely left out!!

huge I hate black racist scum SNIGGER

By BS Aplenty

November 6, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

Camus

The TSowell essay (link referenced in jbmlaw’s post) addresses the universality of slavery. No further comment on my part would illuminate the issue or improve his essay.

If you want to talk about ending poverty then I’d refer you to gatech92’s post at 10:19. This is the kind of ‘Horatio Algier’, rags-to-middle class-riches story that the white community readily embraces but the black community only reluctantly so. The Asian/East Indians in this country have adopted the Horatio Algier story.

If you want my advice on eliminating “poverty” in this country I would encourage the following behaviors:

a) prize education, hard-work and personal sacrifice, b) marry your sweetheart and stay with her when the children come, c) adopt a sense of optimism & pride that rejects assistance from the government (maybe a last, temporary resort).

Best wishes.

By Glenn

November 6, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

Debbie, your reverse misogyny’s misanthropically funny! I didn’t know that you have humor.

By ga_tech_92

November 6, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

DebbieDoRight, towards me you have provided a very non-factual and sexist remark. Nicely done and classic blogger motif.

By time for the harsh but unassailable truth

November 6, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

SNIGGER SNIGGER SNIGGER

HA HA HA HA HA … HEEE HEEEE HEEEEE

now crackpipe’s talking about hookers and prostitution …. LMFAO!!!

TALK ABOUT DELICIOUS IRONY!!!

By Shark Sammich

November 6, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

camus wrote:

Surely Wooten is not suggesting that blacks are inherently less responsible than whites,

Why wouldn’t he? That’s what his idiot conservo-fascist fan base believe.

By Courtney

November 6, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

BS Aplenty should consider actually reading Adam Smith before claiming him. BS’s 10:14 indicates that he doesn’t know the first thing about what’s in the “Wealth of Nations” or anything else that Smith has penned.

BS Aplenty indeed.

By Follow the money

November 6, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

Through well-placed (directly up the behind)lobbyists and generous campaign donations, the credit industry authors and sponsors legislation that affects them. That’s why there is virtually no mandate for the industry to police itself. When their own bad business practices land them in trouble, however, they count on legislators to give them tax loopholes and pass laws and restrictions that punish consumers.

“Personal responsibility” is for you, not them. Your representatives do not represent YOU; they represent big business and big money.

By BS Aplenty

November 6, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

Shark Sammich

Your language is so PC-based that I bet you were born in the Silicon Valley.

P.S. jbmlaw I only wish I knew what a “Randian pun” was !!

By time for the harsh but unassailable truth

November 6, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

Black subprime losers all? Well, the black CEO of Merrill Lynch just left with several million $ goodbye gift. He’s a loser? Thomas Sowell is a loser? Colin Powell? Condi Rice? My black dermatologist? Andruw Jones? Ophra? Some “losers” I must say!! I just hate these “boxes”. Every group or race has smart ones and those a little less so. Their talents vary. But, in America, we try to encourage all fields of endeavor and hold out our hands to those who are reaching.

JOLLY WELL DONE PEEPING TOM … U’re empty sick and twisted poisonous assertion that Dusty et al are “racist” appears - like 99% of your puke on here - ever more empty and desperately rabid!!

Far left pathologically dishonest human scum like yourself have NO business in polite civilised society!! NOW BUGGER OFF BACK UP NORTH!!!

All these race baiting black/lefty abortion bucket escapees on here seem to miss the BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS … that *everyone - regardless of race or colour (other than the mentally handicapped) is WHOLLY responsible for their adult choices and decisions in life!!*

Mr Banker

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Mister please, how much does money mean Won’t you reconsider mister Won’t you do this thing for me Ain’t got no house Ain’t got no car All I got, Lord, is my guitar But you can have that mister banker Won’t you bury my papa for me Oh mister banker please Listen to the way I sound

I would not be here on my knees But hey mister banker It means so much to me Oh won’t you reconsider mister Won’t you do this thing for me

I told you mister I ain’t got no house Ain’t got no car I got me a 1950 Les Paul guitar Won’t you take it mister banker Won’t you bury my papa for me Oh mister banker please

By Matlock

November 6, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

DebbieDoRight does seem to know a lot about men, condoms, and prostitution.

And she’s a Democrat. Imagine that.

By Shark Sammich

November 6, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this

BS aplenty gave us:

I only wish I knew what a “Randian pun” was !!

Ayn Volk, Ayn Land, Ayn Führer.

there ya go.

By jbmlaw

November 6, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

Dear Follow @ 11:35, I think you are 95% on-track. The “credit industry” money, of course, is from the big players – Chase, BoA, SunTrust, arguably-insolvent Citi. The technique of their control is, perversely, regulation, which has huge economies of scale. By inflicting unnecessary costs on the smaller players, the big guys can enforce their market dominance. If you really wanted the industry to police itself, all you would have to do is deregulate all but the 20 largest banks; the market would do it.

Dear TFTT @ 11:19, funny line.

By Truthifier

November 6, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

“How would you, believing nothing, have anything about which to disagree?”

What does that even mean Glenn??

By Jay

November 6, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

“There is a BIG difference in asking for a hand out, and a hand up. Think about it. Where would the majority be if they had the same exact start?”

With all due respect, you can ask all you want, but whites will never give you the answer you want: “You’re right, we’re wrong. Here’s our money and power.” I’m ashamed that slavery existed in this country, but I had nothing to do with it. I have my own set of problems to deal with and responsibilities to uphold; those are my top priorities.

If blacks want to get ahead, they’ll have to do it individually or from within their own community. No doubt it’s unfair, but such is life. As badly as you think you have it here in the U.S., there are people of all races much worse off than the poorest of you around the world.

My point is, we all eventually have to accept the situation we’re born into and make the best of it. To be brutally honest, you can’t rely on anyone but yourself for a hand up.

By Shark Sammich

November 6, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

upthread I sawed:

Pssst: You noticed how I married the profession of small claims law with prostitution?!! Pretty cool huh?

That’s really, really unfair to the prostitutes.

By time for the harsh but unassailable truth

November 6, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

shark sammich… please do us ALL a great favour and go and have immediate Klinton like oral sex with a shark … preferrably a rather hungry great white …

funny how there’s NOT a great black shark - although arguably the hugely self absorbed likes of Oprah (before yet another crash diet), Calpyso Louis Farracrap with dem razor sharp pearly whites or the average ebonics spoutin’ obese loser black female - happily now almost forgotten - McKinney voter comes close!!

By Commander Guy

November 6, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

Our noble pal ga tech 92 complains about the long-winded emotionalism of some of todays post. This coming from a guy whose whiny b!tch posts go on and on forever, hysterically declaiming how grand and wonderful he is and to hell with the rest of us.

Typical whiny, perpetual victim white guy cr@p. Can’t these woe-is-me pale patriarchal penus people ever get over their permanent victim pity party?

Pathetic.

By Glenn

November 6, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

Camus @ 10:37,

As one of “the self-professed Christians on this board”, I recognize your endorsement of compassion. While I do profess the Lord Jesus Christ, I don’t know that I’m a Christian. With Kierkegaard, I pray that I am. (We’ll see.)

My only quibble with your fine summation of the Christian view of compassion is that you confine your remarks mainly to pleasantries, whereas so much of the content of ancient Christian belief is most disquieting. For example, the scriptural reasons given for the Christian imperative of compassion; namely, that God was murdered by people like you and me, such that He cannot substantially live on Satan’s red Earth at this time.

That’s one of the chestnuts they don’t offer in Bible as Literature courses. I just wanted to make sure that you’re not one of the sophomoric bigots who cracks sideways here about the world’s great religious traditions as though he or she were getting away with murder.

By BS Aplenty

November 6, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

Courtney - you deranged, cross-dressing cadaver-maggot

Your assignment for today is to pen a 100 word essay distilling the groundbreaking elements of Smith’s two-volume work without using the phrase “…invisible hand, hand-job or handy-man.” Contrast this work with Marx’s Communist Manifesto oder Das Kapital and identify where their assumptions in political economy diverge.

No peeking at Wikipedia. You may begin, I’ll be back after lunch.

By Just Nasty and Mean

November 6, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

For God’s sake, will somebody please take care of these ignorant people who keep screwing up their own lives? I mean, it can’t be their own fault?! It’s just GOT to be the oppressive white man trying to put them down.

Right?????

By Camus

November 6, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

I have my own set of problems to deal with and responsibilities to uphold; those are my top priorities.

If blacks want to get ahead, they’ll have to do it individually or from within their own community.

And here we find a fine example of the heart of the problem. Blacks are a “they”. “They” are separate from “us”, and “we” should not be bothered.

Well folks, “we” live in the United States of America. First word in that name…UNITED. Not this group and that group; not separate rules for haves and have-nots; not the Distinctly Separate States of Hyphenated Americans.

We the People. United, god@mmit, not set off one against the other. Or at least that is the ideal embodied in the documents set down by the Founding Fathers.

But too many, like Jay and the tragic-but-triumphant victim from Ga Tech, are happy to see the nation divided. They’ve got theirs, all because they worked hard and are superior specimens of humanity. And to hell with anyone who might stumble and fall. Just make them fall down somewhere else.

Nice attitude, guys. Good thing your attitudes towards black people and the poor allow you to pat yourselves on the back and buck up your withered self-esteem. While les @10:03 displays a contemptible and deeply ingrained racism, at least he is honest about it. Too many of the posters here like to pretend that they are not racist, all the while cluck-clucking about the inferiorities of black people.

By Camus

November 6, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

Glenn,

I suspect we would quibble over theology. The teachings of Jesus were a priori the Crucifixion. The Sermon on the Mount; the admonition to turn the other cheek; how one should treat beggars (but give your cloak as well) — these and much else are all firm foundations of a compassionate personal practice.

The notion of Satan did not arise until several hundred years after Jesus taught and dies. This artificial construct (which was given its greatest exposition in the writings of Milton and Dante) was a creation of the men of the church, and was part and parcel of the intitutional anti-Semitism in Europe and the near East.

So, I suppose I would reject your contention that we are asked to be compassionate because of Satan. I believe we need to be compassionate because Jesus taught that it was the right thing to do.

One thelogical commenter once wrote that there are no Christians in the world, that it is simply too hard to live that way. Maybe so. But perhaps we could try a little harder.

As a start, I suggest that any view of our society that creates an “us” and a “them” is inherently a non-Christian approach. There is only “we”, in all the flaws of our shared humanity.

And hey, I’m a little old to be a sophomore, but my old man made sure I would always be a Junior. ;-)

By Craig

November 6, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

On a totally unrelated note, congrats to Ron Paul for his achievement yesterday.

Maybe there’s hope for the Republican party yet, if they would embrace this guy who believes in freedom, limited government, and staying out of the affairs of other countries.

By Poodle

November 6, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

One man can make a diff. Look at the Iraqi engineer who chumped the CIA on Saddam Hussein’s bio-weapon threat. They didn’t have to waterboard this guy. He sang like a canary and they believed every word of it. Why? Because it fit into Bush’s case for war. This is proof that Bush lied, plain and simple. Bush senior was the head of the CIA, so there’s no disconnect with W. Bush Senior must have been astonished when he realized what W was going to do. If Bush Senior is a true patriot, he’ll tell the truth about Iraq, before he goes to that west wing in the sky, and we’ll be a better country for it.

Bush Senior can give back that way.

Blacks are in the situation they are in because of the socio-economic contraints put upon their self-actualization processes by the vestiges of slavery, the consequences of the separate but equal laws, the stench of collective jim crow, and the ubiquitous stealth-racism still alive in the USA.

By Jay

November 6, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

“Well folks, ‘we’ live in the United States of America. First word in that name…UNITED. Not this group and that group; not separate rules for haves and have-nots; not the Distinctly Separate States of Hyphenated Americans.”

Camus, you offer a lot of empty rhetoric and make some tenuous accusations, but nothing you say advances this discourse toward any type of action or solution.

I’m not going to apologize for caring, first and foremost, about myself and my family than strangers. It’s human nature. You’re a fool to think otherwise.

As for labeling blacks as “they,” what other pronoun would you suggest? If a group of people that excludes myself are doing something (asking for a hand up, in this case), I call them “they.” If a group of people that includes myself are doing something, I call them “we.”

I never suggested blacks are inferior; you did. I merely agree with them—or should I say “us” so as not to offend—that slavery put them at a disadvantage.

By haha

November 6, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

Most people who are commenting on this issue hasnt had to live through it.econ half of the people have some type of grudge against black people and miss the point entirely. It must be a burden to harbor such hate for your neighbor like that. I just want you all to know a little understanding goes a long way a little compassion is what u need and just listen and learn all the rest of the stuff is just showing off your ignorance

By Courtney

November 6, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

BS Aplenty at 2:19,

You’re obviously among the ignoramuses who would point and shout the word “Marxist” at anybody who would support our progressive income tax structure (FYI — Adam Smith wrote about and advocated for progressive income taxes long before Karl Marx came along).

I suggest you do your own homework for a change. While you’re contrasting the writings of Smith and Marx (don’t limit your readings of Adam Smith to the Wealth of Nations), you might consider comparing them as well. If you’re honest with yourself, you’ll find that the father of free enterprise wasn’t quite the free market fundamentalist freak that the right-wing propaganda machine would have you believe.

By Shark Sammich

November 6, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

Craig opined:

Maybe there’s hope for the Republican party yet, if they would embrace this guy who believes in freedom, limited government, and staying out of the affairs of other countries.

You left out “…and keepin’ womenfolk down and in a world of crap.”

By BS Aplenty

November 6, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

I like you, too, Courtney (as long as you really aren’t a cross-dresser!!).

By Hunger

November 6, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

Courtney are you hot? You sound hot to me.

By les

November 6, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

Most people are display a total lack of philosophical honesty. Most never examine their presuppositions.

Example. diversity is a good thing. Says whom? Please give some historical precedents for such a claim. What about the Balkans, the Russian republics, Beirut, or other mideast countries where diversity has led to centuries of infighting. People can learn not to hate. Says whom? To what are you appealing? A higher power that deemed humans to be different from other animals? Most people appeal only to personal opinion or the collective opinions of like-minded people. They ignore reality and biology.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with hating other people or being racist. What I think should be at least my one freedom. The thought police cower and cover their ears. Strangely they usually endorse Darwinism and natural selection but seem to have no clue what it means. It truly is every man for himself.

I despise many people; I prefer my own race to others. And until I go out and harm others because of my beliefs, please leave me alone and quit spouting of this perverse, pc bs.

To all the mush-brained weenies in the world who say, ” Can’t we just live together in peace?”, I say read your history and biology and get a life.

By Adolph

November 6, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this

I’m with Les. While we’re at it, let’s enslave those with the hottest women.

By Camus

November 6, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

Jay, let’s unpack your last post:

I’m not going to apologize for caring, first and foremost, about myself and my family than strangers. It’s human nature. You’re a fool to think otherwise.

That you are unapologetic about your attitudes is clear. But you emply a fundamental lie to justify yourself. To declare this human nature, however, is to impart some sort of inevitability and natural order to your chosen attitude. Note that you place “myself” before “my family”. Such selfishness is a learned behavior, and is something that you could rise above, if you were so inclined. For proof, I would point you to fire fighters, as just one example of what humans are capable of when they put others before themselves. Perhaps you think fire fighters are fools, too?

As for labeling blacks as “they,” what other pronoun would you suggest?

As I wrote before, the word “we” works just fine if one’s attitude is towards a shared humanity. Any time one uses “they” to describe other people, it serves to obscure our common humanity and create a class of “other”, something that is not the same as “my group”, and hence not worthy of the same respect and concern due the in crowd.

If a group of people that excludes myself are doing something (asking for a hand up, in this case), I call them “they.” If a group of people that includes myself are doing something, I call them “we.”

The exclusion and inclusion in this case is all your own doing. You can deny it, but it doesn’t change a thing.

I never suggested blacks are inferior; you did.

You implicity position blacks as somehow other than yourself. So, while you might not have the honesty of les @10:03, you certainly share his sense of priority and privilege.

I merely agree with them—or should I say “us” so as not to offend—that slavery put them at a disadvantage.

Again. Puts “them” at a disadvantage. Lucky it had nothing to do with you. Lucky that none of your current status or attainment has anything to do with the fact that you were born into a condition of relative privilege, with a social network already in place that places your human value slightly higher than another, easily distinguishable, group of people.

The best for last, though: my hope for a United society, one that recognizes its shared humanity and is based on compassion rather than an “I gimme me gimmme mine” predation is “empty rhetoric”. Hmm. Perhaps you are at last just as honest as les @10:03. Just not with yourself.

By Malcolm

November 6, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

We could live in peace if not for phartbrains like les and w.

By BS Aplenty

November 6, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

Shark Sammich @ 11;48

Clever.

By getalife

November 6, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this

Dennis Kucinich talking about impeaching cheney on C-Span.

By catch22

November 6, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

This situation is a classic ‘Catch 22’. I’m one of those subprime mortgage holders and I assure after having bought my 4th home I thought I was educated.

In 2005 when I refinanced my home, the real estate market was booming. I knew I only want to stay in my home for another year or two, so I took out the equity and felt comfortable to rely on the appraised value when ready to sell.

Well, now the market is horrible and I couldn’t sell this home for what I owe, let alone the 30k more that it appraised for then.

So, you tell me why you don’t think that we were lambs led to slauder. Its institutional racism. And I’ve been a victim for years. I have a car that’s worth 10k less than the remaining balance on the loan.

We (Blacks) are systematically singled out and setup for years of poverty and indebtedness. I personally think there needs to be legislation that limits interest rates and home mortgages and other loans based on income and not smoke and mirrors.

By Captain Freedom

November 6, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

THE Captain had stopped in to stand as an exemplar of Right Thinking True Believers, to offer a window into the soul of Our Movement and Our Beliefs.

However, the admirable les at 10:03 and again at 1:36 paints a picture of Our Movement that is so pure and stark in its clarity that THE Captain can add nothing more that might help the world understand that which lies beneath the world view of THE Captain, Dusty, Mr Wooten, and the rest of our Wooten Klan.

Hoods off to you, les. And Our Good Friend Jay, too.

By Jay

November 6, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

You’re batshit crazy, Camus. I think that’s something WE ALL can agree on.

By Jack

November 6, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

Catch 22. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

By Courtney

November 6, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

Batshit Jay,

Speak for yourself, prick.

By jbmlaw

November 6, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

This may be a bit more wonkish than most of you care to read, but our old antagonists at FTC issued a paper this year on credit scores (as a predictor of automobile insurance losses – I know, not exactly on topic, but it is in the neighborhood.) The findings were a great surprise to me; FTC found that, although protected minorities are disparately adversely reflected in all credit scoring systems, the correlation with insurance losses was inexplicably strong. http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2007/07/facta.shtm

By getalife

November 6, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

At least, kos is talking about your water problem

Too bad Jim does not use his State contacts and address this issue.

By les

November 6, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

Common humanity? Pure nonsense. I understand it is the rutting season for deer. Deer, being smarted than pc people, do not seemed to concerned for the Common Deerness. The males fight each other like hell to keep their genes in the pool.

Crybaby liberals need to go to deer school and learn the basic fundamentals of life that a few people have learned along the way—that life is short, brutish and nasty. But of course, humans are soooooo different from other ‘animals’. Civilization is a fairy tale. Under the thinnest veneer of ‘civilization’ lies our massive ‘animalness’. I don’t think it is a bad thing. It is neither good or bad, it is just a simple fact.

Phartbrains like w and I are the good for the world. We are fulfilling our deepest need —to keep existing and if that require throwing others overboard, so be it.

By cranky old man

November 6, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

Education and financial counseling are the keys? Perhaps. But that doesn’t necessarily mean there is no place for additional government regulation. Maybe the solution would be to require lenders to brief their potential customers on different types of mortgages prior to granting a loan. Although Jim has common sense on his side here, up to a point, I don’t think we can absolve lenders of all blame. They may not have waylaid their borrowers in bars with belaying pins and dragged them into their offices, but they certainly could have acted in a more ethical manner.

As I understand the current SNAFU, most of these problem loans involve variable rate mortgages with automatic ballooning of interest rates after a 1-2 year grace period. I suspect these types of loans were designed to be attractive to real estate speculators, who would normally plan to resell the houses prior to the end of the grace period. Lenders, desperate to maintain market share and not be left out of that last dime of profit during a bull market in real estate, sold these mortgages to clients who would otherwise have to be charged much higher initial payments to compensate for the additional risk associated with their lower credit scores. Rather than risk losing these customers to a competitor, they dangled these variable rate mortgages with low initial monthly payments in front of them, and never bothered to fully explain the potential long term consequences.

By Jack

November 6, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

jbmlaw@2:22. “wonkish” Someone is rubbing off on you.

By Dusty

November 6, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

Captain Freedom @1:59

Speak for yourself, you old coot. You’re a rabid ribald raconteur of instantaneous undercover embellishment of lies. You sound amazingly like Valerie Plame. Could it be…???

Well, so much for compiments. I shall close with an uplifting line:You shall know the TRUTH and the TRUTH shall set you free.. (See, I’m being very nice, you ancient albatross on the ship of fools.)

By jbmlaw

November 6, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

Dear Debbie @ 11:09, I do not understand your fascination with my personal life, but I would respectfully correct your confusions on the subject. The Ensign was graduated from UNC Chapel Hill 18 months ago (our friend Shar and I have exchanged bemused “hostile” notes on the virtues of Dook vs UNC-CH) and he was commissioned a naval officer the day before the graduation ceremony. The commissioning ceremony was far more impressive than the graduation ceremony. He is starting his second year of flight training, on a platform with an extraordinarily-high personal risk. The Ensign is a hero-in-training; you should appreciate his service. Perhaps you confuse the Ensign with his older brother, for whom I funded a second unsuccessful effort at college earlier this year.

I have consistently averred my long history in banking, and that I started a second career by seizing a law degree late in life. I have since worked in a banking regulatory-boutique firm, run my own private practice for five years, and since embraced a string of corporate positions. As bank counsel I often launched collections efforts in small claims. I suspect you confused my discussion of my favorite years, as a small town general practice attorney, with other language about the virtues of small claims courts.

But you seemingly disparage the genuine psychic benefits of helping people in times of distress; there is no greater personal satisfaction than helping someone through a criminal charge. I still do a little of that, but only on a personal referral basis, and normally pro bono. If you ever want to change a small part of the world for the better, I urge the practice of law; you can do a lot of good for individual lives. Don’t think about the money, that will corrupt your vision.

Debbie, when you blog, you never post anything of substance, just epithets and hostility. You seemingly have a quick mind, just perverted; I would respectfully urge you to dedicate your efforts to formulating real arguments, instead of merely slinging the mud. You could change the world that way, too. As is, you are simply an object of ridicule, one who cannot string together two lucid ideas.

By Your Worst Nightmare

November 6, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

The bravado of some whites amazes me…tell Jewish people to “get over the holocaust” Tell Indians to “get over” the genocide that whites inflicted on them. I dare you. For some reason you feel justified to continue to downgrade blacks. These creditors practiced predatory lending on a people that had been so long denied the opportunity to own a house. Like BIG BUSINESS does, they preyed on the weaknesses of peoples dreams.

By Indy Girl

November 6, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

When my husband died, I was left to raise 4 children on my own. I had to find a job that paid the most money, so I worked in a factory for 33 years. The first house that I bought for us,I got misused, because I didn’t know anything about buying a house, but I was tired of renting, and I didn’t want to have to move again. I lost the house 8 years later. This time when I got ready to buy another house, I did my homework. I read everything I could about buying houses, figured how much I could afford, got on the internet at the library searching for information, and sent to HUD for different information. That information helped me to figure how much house I could afford. It took me 5 years, and it all paid off. In 2000 I bought another house at 5.87 percentage rate. It is not an adjustable rate, or subprime rate. My house payments are 587.00 a month for a 100,000 dollar house, less than the rent I was paying. The Housing Authority in our state has free classes on how to buy a house, and if you complete the course, you get a discount on the downpayment. I only had to pay $6000. down. They also retrieve credit reports for you so you can see where it stands, and if it is not good, they help you clean it up with a budget, and payment plans, which may make your move in date a little later, but it is best for you. When I moved into my home, I didn’t owe anyone anything. Yes, it does take education.

By Indy Girt

November 6, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

I forgot to mention that I am a Black female

By Jack

November 6, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

Good for you Indy Girl. Your Worst Nightmare should read and re-read your post. He should also take heart in what Bill Cosby is trying to get across to the black community.

By Disgusted

November 6, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

Allow me to weigh in and support les and the others who view the principal obligation of Right-thinking conservatives as taking care of #1 and our own kind. Forget this brother’s keeper bunk.

Still, I believe it is possible to perform random acts of kindness while we are carrying out our mission of preserving ourselves and our own kind. For instance, the other night, while I was taking a stroll along the river bank, I came across a gentleman swimmer who had neglected to remove his clothes before entering the water. Obviously confused, he was attempting to approach the shore. I gently tapped him on the forehead with my shoe to guide him back to the water so that he could continue his swim.

The same kind of thing happened downtown yesterday. An old black lady in a wheelchair was apparently having trouble in getting a start to cross the street. I gave her a good shove so that she was halfway into the intersection before she knew it.

I can report that I felt much better for performing these small acts of kindness. Such acts are the duty of a good conservative in the course of pursuing self-aggrandizement and self-preservation. I can assure you that such charity is not incompatible with our principal duty.

By Jackie

November 6, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

Isn’t it remarkeable that the so-called conservatives would attack a subject like this when there is volumes of evidence to show that blacks and other minorities are discriminated against in all aspects of finances. For instance, when one goes to purchase an automobile, the fun and games begin. Blacks are very rarely given a discount on the purchse of the car. Unknowingly, when blacks are “offered” an interest rate, it is usually higher than what whites are given because interest rates are negotiable and the lender very rarely negotiates with blacks. Let us not discuss the horrific stories in the real estate markets. There was documented evidence that shows where many of the major home builders WOULD NOT build in South Atlanta, specifically in the area where many blacks had higher than average incomes and had professional and executive management positions. How long did it take for any major restaurants to locate south of I-20? How long did it take to complete the Mall in Conyers when it was well know that blacks were some of the more proflific shoppers in Atlanta? Health Care has always been a problem and if one does not have health insurance, many of the hospitals will charge double and/or triple the cost of the procedure if one pays cash or makes arrangements to pay. What about the gentrification of inner-city neighborhoods. Elderly and poor blacks are often forced from their homes because of lack of funds to pay taxes associated with elevated values of property and are forced to sell are what appears to be a “fair” price when it is discovered the money received for their only posession probably would not cover the down payment on something similar in the ‘burbs. Do these neo-cons and so-called convservatives think we are to not believe our lying eyes? It is astounding how they try to get us to believe that they are such upstanding and wonderful people when their actions show they moral and ethical compasess are poorly adjusted.

By ray

November 6, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

great comedy today. always funny how the rightwing can be such believers in the dynamic of family, but at the same time shrug thier shoulders at the impact slavery/discrimination has had on the black community…ha…gop - the home of hypocricy humor…ha

By catch22

November 6, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

This is a ‘Catch 22’ issue not an education issue.

I am a subprime mortgage holder of my 4th home and not because I wasn’t educated or poor. My income was in excess of 90k. I refinanced my house in 2006 when the market was booming because I wasn’t planning on being in it longer than another year or two and now I cannot sell my house for the loan balance let alone the inflated appraisal amount.

I’m also driving a car that is worth 10k less than the balance on the loan.

We (Blacks) are victims of this system, which set’s us up for years of indebtedness. Our mistake is looking at the short term and not the long run. Most often, we aren’t prepared for the layoffs or the illness or heaven forbid death of a spouse. So when either of these events occur our financial situation is immediately affected. We can no longer pay the high interest loans that we settled for because that’s all we were offered. We are like lambs being led to the slaughter house.

I feel victimized, but what can I do about it. Its the system. We are always paying more for the same thing, any excuse will do to give us a higher interest rate.

I think there should be legislation passed to limit the interest rates on loans and bracket the home prices based on incomes, not some slick mortgage broker or car salesman’s idea cooked up to line his/her pockets with commission $$$$.

By les

November 6, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

Kudos to Indy Girl. She got over it Worst Nightmare. Your own worst nightmare stares back at you from the mirror daily. Get Over It!!! Perhaps there is some decent time interval to apply before saying it, but say it nonetheless. I would tell American Indians to get over it. One day we will be in same situation when we become the United States of Mexico. Then the majority population (Mexicans) will tell all of us to get over it. Then, later, in the United States of China will tell the Mexicans to get over it.

Furthermore, the slavery imposed on your ancestors a very long time ago hardly rises to the mass murder inflicted upons Jews, Poles, gypies, etc. a mere 60 some years ago.

You are a born loser Worst Nightmare, but sadly it appears you have been cloned several million times.

By jbmlaw

November 6, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

Dear Indy Girl @ 3:07, if your kids have half the diligence your life demonstrates, they’ll do well.

By catch22

November 6, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

This is a ‘Catch 22’ issue not an education issue.

I am a subprime mortgage holder of my 4th home and not because I wasn’t educated or poor. My income was in excess of 90k. I refinanced my house in 2005 when the market was booming and now I cannot sell my house for the loan balance let alone the inflated appraisal amount.

I’m also driving a car that is worth 10k less than the balance on the loan.

We (Blacks) are victims of this system, which set’s us up for years of indebtedness. Our mistake is looking at the short term and not the long run. We aren’t prepared for the layoffs or the illness or heaven forbid death of a spouse. So when either of these events occur our financial situation is immediately affected. We can no longer pay the high interest loans that we settled for because that’s all we were offered. We are like lambs being led to the slaughter house.

I feel victimized, but what can I do about it. Its the system. We are always paying more for the same thing, any excuse will do to give us a higher interest rate.

I think there should be legislation passed to limit the interest rates on loans and bracket the home prices based on incomes, not some slick mortgage broker or car salesman’s idea cooked up to line his/her pockets with commission $$$$.

By Bill Watrous

November 6, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

Jim…..great article. Airtight premise and supporting logic. You’ll take a lot of heat, but ignore it. To many “advocates” making a living enabling a nation of victims. Time for adults to be accountable, the answers in the mirror, not race.

By Bill Watrous

November 6, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

Jim…..great article. Airtight premise and supporting logic. You’ll take a lot of heat, but ignore it. To many “advocates” making a living enabling a nation of victims. Time for adults to be accountable, the answers in the mirror, not race.

By RJ

November 6, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

les @2:32 — There’s nothing more pc than trying to bully your debate opponents with the Limbaugh acronym “pc” and the O’Reilly catch-phrase “crybaby liberals”.

Get back to us if and when you learn how to think for yourself, Dittohead.

By Your Worst Nightmare

November 6, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

what IES?? Go die.

Black women, children and men were raped. Sexual organs were cut off. Families were separated. The issues that you see that blacks have today stem from years and years, of not only slavery but Jim Crow..somw whites are so ignorant, you act like it all stopped with slavery. idiots.

By jbmlaw

November 6, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

Dear Jackie the Jew Baiter @ 3:24, you are surely the only person on earth who would allege that big-government pro-democracy internationalists are keeping elderly and poor blacks in chains. “Elderly and poor blacks are often forced from their homes because of lack of funds to pay taxes associated with elevated values of property and are forced to sell are what appears to be a “fair” price when it is discovered the money received for their only possession probably would not cover the down payment on something similar in the ‘burbs. Do these neo-cons and so-called conservatives think we are to not believe our lying eyes?” What sort of intellect would charge Podhoretz with setting the tax rates in DeKalb or Fulton County? Certainly a unique one.

By Truthifier

November 6, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

Does anyone know if there is any empirical evidence that subprime mortgages are specifically marketed toward minorities? Obviously, there are plenty of people who feel that they have anecdotal evidence based on their own personal experience, etc. but in the larger scheme of things is this true?

By DebbieDoRight

November 6, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

Les (B. Ann): I despise you too!! We’re in agreement!

By Dusty

November 6, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

Nightmare@3:06

You sound like you have been through a bit of brainwashing. “Genocide” for Native Americans? That is pure politically correct agenda. Indians are not wailing about past history, but working to improve the future of America just like the rest of us. Why don’t you try it?

By Your Worst Nightmare

November 6, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Actually Jack, that is a good name for you because you don’t know Jack. I bought a house when I was 24 and went through the course, bought a house with equity and I still own it (I am also a female) I agree with Bill Cosby also…I don’t blame white people for our ills, I do however recognize the snowball effect that this has had on my people/

By Dusty

November 6, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

Dusty, you are just that, dusty. Native Americans didn’t wail? Of course not because the government paid them to shut up.

By ga_tech_92

November 6, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

Commander Guy – you contributed nothing of substance to this blog topic. You only succeeded in trying to put down someone who’s goal was to illustrate you can come from perceived disadvantage and either sit in it or do something about it. I provided many pointers to overcome said perceived advantages. You didn’t provide anything but negativity. Let me illustrate: Our noble pal ga tech 92 – I never in my wildest dreams imagined that I am noble. Thanks for exaggeration and sarcasm, it really helps to give people a leg up in society. Oh wait, no it doesn’t, just like my sarcasm isn’t helping you now. complains about the long-winded emotionalism of some of todays post – I think you missed the point I was making. My point was, and still is, there are a lot of emotions and words being tossed around, but no a lot of solutions. My stories were meant to provide real life solutions (to the blog topic) of how one can help them selves. Some people are apparently more interested in putting people down, than helping them up with ideas. . This coming from a guy whose whiny b!tch posts go on and on forever, hysterically declaiming how grand and wonderful he is and to hell with the rest of us. – You spend a lot of time, I’m speculating, complaing instead of doing. That is escentially a mentality a lot of people have, who probably blame the world for their problems….instead of focusing all that energy on giving themselves a hand up.
Typical whiny, perpetual victim white guy cr@p. Can’t these woe-is-me pale patriarchal penus people ever get over their permanent victim pity party? – I don’t think you actually read my posts. I made it very clear that I (nor are most anyone) a victim, but instead am a survivor of whatever we were born into. We each have the choice of name calling and being negative, as you are….or of helping ourselves by working hard and getting somewhere….or further…by trying to help others by giving real life examples, as I did. You name called…I tried to help…who’s the b***h again? Enjoy your hell.

By les

November 6, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

Hey Worst Nightmare and DebbieDoRight, sounds like the two of you would make a cute couple.

Worst, what is your highest reading level? 1st grade? When will it end? When you decide your sorry, lazy a*s has gotten what everyone else works for?

Debbie, glad you hate me. It is entirely your privilege. I salute you and encourage you to hate me more.

Oh yeah, and Worst, if you could write a little better, maybe you could earn some mortgage money by penning a futuristic tale set 5 billion years hence where some bottom feeder is still complaining he hasn’t gotten over what slavery did to his ancestors billions of years ago.

Ditto Head, I can’t think of an appropriate insult for you. Language hasn’t gone that low yet.

By Dusty and Facts = Oil and Water

November 6, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

Dusty wrote, “‘Genocide’ for Native Americans? That is pure politically correct agenda.”

And another dittohead (easily identified by her use of the term “politically correct”) manifests to wallow in her own ignorance. Indeed, Limbaugh listeners believe that in addition to being entitled to their own opinions (or those of their favorite right-wing talk show hosts), they’re also entitled to their own facts.

Disappointing? Yes…but not surprising.

By Dusty

November 6, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

Phony Dusty @3:45

.The government paid them to shut up. Really?? And did the government pay you to speak up?

I have worked with Native Americans ten summers and I did not see the sulleness, anti-Americanism, and such that you present here.

I did see evidence of the many veterans who had fought for this country-even heard one old “Code Talker” give a patriotic speech.

Native Americans are proud to be the Indians of America but I would say they put their country first.

I wonder what you put first.

By Glenn

November 6, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

Camus @ 12:44,

You’re right, we would quibble about theology, and no I didn’t really take you for a peddler in this Sophomorium.

The commentator to whom you refer was more or less undoubtedly the aforementioned Kierkegaard, circa 1855, by which time he already was anticipating Nietzsche by a full generation (not to mention Camus, by a century). As to your contention that the very “notion of Satan” did not arise until the patristic period, I think you must be referring to the fledged doctrine concerning that person, which doctrine was and is an evolving theodical construct. For my part, I was referring to the one described by the author of Matthew’s Gospel, in which Satan unmistakably offers control of all the world’s power and politics to the Nazarene, who, as we can see, declined the offer. Later, after Jesus refuses Satan’s invitation to take the fall, He sees Satan — the very notion of whom you say was not invented “until hundreds of years after Jesus” — “fall like lightning”.

Your suggestion that the content of the Naz’s teachings was not contingent upon, nor colored by nor even anticipatory of, the torturous death of Jesus, is unfortunately profane historicism that run’s counter to His teachings, which include several references to His own death, his explicit rejection of our “construct” of time (“Before you were, I am”), and his insistence that the spirit of compassion to which you refer is so indispensably obligatory that its betrayal is singularly unforgivable.

You referred to the history of Christian anti-Semitism. That was, I readily grant you, a long and not long-gone history of hatred and envy that was increasingly organized, rationalized, systematized — as well as just plain brutal. I suppose it’s one of many good reasons to join your call for an end to the us-and-them animus, the antithesis of the empathy you rightly peg as the principal prerequisite for the compassion that’s counseled by all the great world religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam.

By Commander Guy

November 6, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

wow, slap a b!tch and she just howls louder. ga tech 92 comes back with yet another windy whine lamenting how nobody understands him, toting up all his superior attributes, and then crying again.

what a little girl. alright, enough picking on the weak…

ga tech 92, wussums is the smartest most best wuzzy wuzz there ever was. yes he is. yes he is.

There. Feel better yet? Or do we get another emotionalist, fact-free pi$$ and moan from the queen of bootstraps?

whadda tool.

By DebbieDoRight

November 6, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

But you seemingly disparage the genuine psychic benefits of helping people in times of distress;

Oh I’m so sorry jbmlaw I’ve NEVER read anywhere where you’ve said you’ve “helped” anyone. You must’ve posted that info when I wasn’t on that day.

I still do a little of that, but only on a personal referral basis, and normally pro bono.

Pro BONO!!?? You do small claims PRO BONO!!?? hahahah LOL GTFOH!! Too funny!!!

Debbie, when you blog, you never post anything of substance, just epithets and hostility.

Sigh. I know. When I talk about pertinent facts like the environment, Genarlow Wilson, the current law, the Bush Administration, the so called “Voting Abuse” etc.; it is never anything of substance. Especially to someone like you who has willingly swallowed the Bush Kool-Aide and THEN went back for a second cup.

You seemingly have a quick mind, just perverted; I would respectfully urge you to dedicate your efforts to formulating real arguments, instead of merely slinging the mud.

You, jbmlaw, who has admitted on this blog that although you support this “war”; you have not and WILL NOT sacrifice anything for it, (unless of course the “Ensign” is called to duty — I bet you’d change your mind then). You have admitted on this blog that you have done NOTHING in the way of supporting the troops, (besides putting that yellow sticker on your car), with care packages, letters, emails, USO, etc.; yet you have the nerve to speak of “compassion”. You like your war to be just like you, vacuous, misleading, simple, and for other people to suffer and die for; but not you. It just has to benefit you.

You could change the world that way, too.

Don’t you have an ambulance to chase?

By Captain Freedom

November 6, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

THE Captain is not a man to cry easily. Granted, I do weep at the end of Gladiator when the Christian warrior played by Russel Crowe goes to heaven. But generally, THE Captain is a dry-eyed and hardened observer of the human condition, which is, like les, brutish, nasty and short.

However, even THE Captain was moved to tears of joy at the selfless actions of Disgusted @ 3:19. If only more of us would take the time to commit these random acts of societal improvement, the world would indeed be a better place.

By HIDT

November 6, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

He said he does criminal defense work on a personal referral basis,usually for free.

By Shantal in Smyrna

November 6, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this

As someone who has taught at the high school level for over four years, I can tell you that the students who need financial literacy the most are the ones short-changed the most. If they don’t acquire this knowledge at home then you are correct, they must acquire it at school.

Under the State curriculum frameworks adopted recently, most of our students enter high school with already having acquired Computer Literacy, Critical Literacy, Civic Literacy, Multicultural Literacy, Quantitative Literacy, Environmental Literacy, Reproductive Literacy and Visual and Artistic Literacy. However, they have not been exposed to financial literacy, which is not even taught until the Junior Year.

Before they can even take Financial Literacy, our students have to complete coursework in Scientific/Technological Literacy, Media and Information Literacy, Geographical Literacy, Political Literacy and Health. Do you see what the problem is? There still is no Financial Literacy!

Even when our students reach their Junior Year and they are required to take Financial Literacy, that course competes with all the other 11th Grade requirements, which are Statistical Literacy, Life Skills Literacy, Parental Literacy and Intermediate Environmental Literacy. If you factor in extracurriculars and the fact that every student is held accountable for grade-level appropriate Content Area Literacy, there is not much time for a 16 or 17 year-old teenager to learn about financials.

The biggest problem of all is too many students leave school before completing Grade 11, and these students have no—repeat, no—Financial Literacy. Whatsoever. As an African American I can tell you that in most districts most of these school leavers are black and Hispanic.

By Jackie

November 6, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

@jbmlaw,

Once a clown , always a clown. Typical obfuscation on your part trying to twist my words to bolster your pathetic argument. By the way, what point are you making? I see that you do not dispute my thesis , therefore, there must be credibility to the facts presented. Go to Wally Mart and get your batteries.

By Poodle

November 6, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

Typhoid Debbie……Typhoid Debbie…….she laid them out like it was the plague!

I dont think any of the victims of Debbie DoRight of the Mounties (i hope) 4:19 comment will be the same. There cant be anything left of any of ‘em.

You go ‘head, girl.

By Glenn

November 6, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

getalife, can you believe that even kos is now mocking GA while Sonny still doesn’t have a plan to announce?

By Glenn

November 6, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Sharky, was that you who made yesterday’s reference to the State Dept. scandal? I’d made a note to look into it last night. What do you think the Chinese will do?

By Jack

November 6, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

Your Worst Nightmare Good for you. I do know Jack. I just don’t think the crutch needs to be used anymore by “your” people.

By Captain Freedom

November 6, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

crackpipe debbieturd is the most hateful nasty whoralicious black biiitch U’ll see in cyber space. I reckon its been possessed by that same f******o loving Ancient Tibetan demon that flits back and forth between the ultra MoRoNiC maxine thickaspigshit waters and winnie I HATE WHITES and killed Stompie mandela!!

les

I am mighty proud to say that this mexican day labourer BIG GULP slurper crackpipe debbieturd for some weird, inexplicable reason hates me way more than it hates U. The reason why the greasy mexican illegals luv debbieturd so much is it takes its false teeth out EVERY single TIME!!

snigger snigger

By Poodle

November 6, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this

Point of order. The red goes on positive. The black goes on negative.

By Glenn

November 6, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

Poodle, well done!

By getalife

November 6, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

Glenn,

Actually, it was kos diary writer but you are on your own.

Start building a water pipeline from Mexico.

They have plenty of water in Tabasco.

Geez, sonny can’t and cons do not believe in conservation. They are the “me” generation.

By Dusty

November 6, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

@4:19

Dear jbmlaw,

Probably you have surmised as I have that anyone writing such a post as 4:19 has some real problems in personal life. Whatever. I would not hazard a guess but find it sad. She is unloading on others as we can all see.

Hey..sticks and stones and all that stuff. I wish you well in all your endeavors. May you have the best of evenings.

By getalife

November 6, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Damn, time for the toilet is Captain Freedom?

By Jackie

November 6, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

The Taliban are regrouping and growing stronger in Pakistan, a country WITH A NUCLEAR WEAPON, and Dubya is saying they should work on their democratic principles. The oil prices have gone through the roof and are at an all -time high, gasoline prices are become prohibitive, the economy is problematic, unemployment rates are farcical, the surge is not working as 2007 is the deadliest year we have encountered in Iraq, yet, we are not talking about what we can do to help save our republic. It is apparent the neo-cons have spilled their Kool Aid and want everyone else to clean it up.

By Poodle

November 6, 2007 5:14 PM | Link to this

Hey, liberals: We’ve got all our trolls in a row. Look at how they’re one by one commenting, and revealing who they are, and where they are, in the wake of DebbieDoRight of the Mounties (i hope), devasting tongue lashing from which none of them emerged unscathed.

It’s like troll radar. Cool, deb. you are far far more dangerous than even I thought.

You go ‘head, girl.

By Dusty

November 6, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

Glenn@4:44

Didn’t Gov.Perdue come up with a water allocation plan that Alabama and Tennessee approved? I thought that was one big squabble that he had settled. Made Georgia look like it was doing something in the water business.

By deegee

November 6, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

My grandfather had an expression, “youth is wasted on the young”. How many young people, particularly of high school age believe the warnings that come from counselors. With the exception of Dusty’s five perfect offspring, most kids and young adults believe that bad things happen to other people and that they are immune from the consequences of half baked ideas. Indy girl made a bad choice and lost a home once. She admitted that she was “misused” but she learned from her experience and eventually made it right. Good decisions come from experience. Experience comes from bad decisions. Human nature makes us understand the importance of education only after we screw up the first time. For that reason predatory lending is a crime and the subprime fiasco could have been avoided. Most of the foreclosures are on first time home buyers. It’s sad because they are the folks that, like Indy girl just wanted to get out of an apartment and make a better life for themselves and their kids. They will be smarter the next time but as the song goes, the man in the suit has just bought a new car from the profit he made on their dreams.

By Poodle

November 6, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this

I haven’t thought about that song in decades. Cool spark of high heeled boys. What was the name of that group?

By Glenn

November 6, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this

Disgusted, you’re Demented. That Dr. Bierce & Mr. Magoo story was tasty mon.

tftt, memorable anecdote about selling the house. Felt life.

Sharky, the Randian pun is a keeper. Google U.S. Copyright Ofc.

Dusty, here I thought we wuzza winnin at the Ko-ral and you uppin git us inna Injun fight agin. Sho-wur wish peepulda look up that word geno-cide. N while theyre at it they kin look up what happend tall them Crow Injuns too.

Jackie, let’s clear up the record on the surge so’s we can talk Pakistan. Surge working so far. Civilian and allied military deaths and casualties for October are the lowest in a long, long time. Everyone who laments the bloody occupation and wants our people safe and successful and home should welcome this news with fingers crossed. You’re missing the forest for the Bush.

Pakistan. Whether Musharraf succeeds or fails, the democrats are likely to win. Musharraf is out to cripple the Salafis, and I think we just might have put him up to it. Our finger-wagging at him is so stagey and wimpy that it seems off. Even Rice is not that limp a milquetoast. If, as the media excitedly report, the Salafis have magical surge powers of their own and exercise those powers at this time, either Mush will stomp them or he’ll get pushed aside by anti-Salafi general staff (which now has the upper hand over the quislings) and they will stomp the Salafis. Military government may continue for awhile, unfortunately, but democracy’s on the upswing again there and the democrats have history on their side. Sooner rather than later.

I don’t know where that puts Bush in all of this and right now I don’t care. Let posterity winnow it.

By Glenn

November 6, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

Traffic, with Stevie Winwood doing vocals.

By Boxer

November 6, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this

Traffic! I had that album, man. I played it over and over, and I even figured out the piano riff. (sort of) I loved that song, and that time.

Freeze warning tonite, folks. Dont go tentin’ tonite.

By Glenn

November 6, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this

deegee & Poodle, also reminds me of Tears for Fears (are we still down to Tear for Fear?) and “we are paid by those who learn by our mistakes”.

Jackie, please don’t think I’m being cavalier about the Pakistani dangers. It’s just that the place has been powderkeggy for so long in so many ways; it even started off powderkeggy. I have a gut feeling that they’re growing out of that, fast. But yes Mush is dangerous, and it’ll be hell to get him out of power. He’s proved that he’ll sell out anything to feed his power lust. He’s so Faustian he’s Feistian. Mushaboom!