Thinking Right

By Redneck Convert

October 30, 2007 8:36 AM | Link to this

Well, if God wanted state workers to retire they would of been borned with a big bank account. It’s un-American to expect a employer to promise a retirement check of a certain amount. Employers deal with risk so why shouldn’t the workers?

Me and other godly Republicans like jbmlaw think the cos. should not be made to pay for the retirement of anybody. I like jbmlaw’s idea of making social security drawing bums into cannon fodder. Just let the old codgers all work till they keel over and maybe the employer can give a little toward the funeral expenses. This is America, not some commie country where workers set around and wait for a retirement check that’s been promised. People got to take Personal Responsibility in a Free Innerprize country.

So I say the state should join all the cos. and get rid of promises and maybe chip in a buck or two and then tell the workers it’s a dog-eat-dog world out there and lots of luck with your retirement if you can afford it and don’t come crying to us when you are starving. That’s the Republican and the Libraritarian way and its good for everybody.

That way the taxpayers and all the cos. can just pocket what they have to pay for peoples retirement and the taxpayers and bosses can keep more of what they make and when they do that they will want to drink a beer to sellabrate and that’s where I come in. I get Job Security. It’s a jungle out there and the people that can’t save enough just got to settle for being eat when they can’t work no more.

Anyway, if us godly Republicans can get reelected next year we can keep working towards getting rid of social security and pensions and stuff and return things to the way they was a 100 years ago. Those were the good old days where you didn’t have silly stuff like wage laws and child labor laws and pensions and social security and other nonsense. I think Wooten’s idea of cutting the pension by 300 bucks is a good start but it won’t be all right till its all cut out. So vote for the Republican next year if you want to get rid of pensions and social security and health benefits and such. Be a Great American.

By jbmlaw

October 30, 2007 8:46 AM | Link to this

Good morning all. Since I don’t have any real dispute with any of Jim’s arguments, I’ll offer two sarcastic alternatives:

(1) term limits for state employees, so that nobody can serve the state more than two five year employment terms in his/her lifetime – would eliminate the regal bureaucrats

(2) require all Georgia citizens to perform two years of public service for the state, commencing at age 65.

One more serious idea, how much is the “cap” on retirement payments? Is it possible for someone to receive Georgia pensions in excess of, say, $50,000/year? If so, why?

By jbmlaw

October 30, 2007 8:50 AM | Link to this

Dear Redneck @ 8:36, “Me … think the cos. should not be made to pay for the retirement of anybody. I like jbmlaw’s idea of making social security drawing bums into cannon fodder.” Has dual virtues, eliminates the “unfunded contingent liability” problem and ensures full staffing of the military with a settled, responsible population, doesn’t it?

By Kieran

October 30, 2007 9:09 AM | Link to this

Redneck, your pan-wielding battleax is the funniest thing since Mencken’s “fat harridan in gingham” riff from the Monkey Trial.

By HellNo, We Won't Go

October 30, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

Gawd, I hate to think Dusty is going to get a fat state pension paid for with my tax dollars. Grow, baby, grow

By Shar

October 30, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this

Redneck: You have a gift, and I look forward to your wit on this blog in the morning. I sincerely hope that your beer run allows time for you to write for more general publication.

One question - from what have you converted?

By Mike

October 30, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

State Employees’ wages are equal to those of Federal Employees? (I’ll finish writing when I’m over my belly-laugh) I hope this isn’t an accurate example of the usual research Wooten puts into his writing. A State Probation Officer with thirty years experience earns an annual salary of $50,000. There is no overtime. A State Probation Officer is required to hold a minimum four-year college degree from an accrediated college or university. A Federal Probation Officer with thirty years experience and the same employment qualifications as his/her state-counterpart, and usually trained by his/her state-counterparts, earns in excess of $100,000, and has the same responsibilites (with a much smaller, tamer, caseload … mostly white collar rather than sex offenders, robbers and druggies) Wake up, Wooten. You’re lost in the fog.

By Glenn

October 30, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

Good morning. Jbm, I like both the sarcastic alternatives. In fact I like the idea of sarcastic alternatives. We should generate a blogful. It will be good for democracy. Like a braistorming session in one of the “play rooms” at a high-tech company’s RD shop.

Back many moons, when the buffalo were fat in the Valley of Sand, one of my jobs was to concoct lists of names for high-tech start-ups. The’d explain the new tech process around which the company was to be built, and give us a few impressionistic words, and off we’d go. When we got blocked we’d always resort to our Dystopian Method, whereby we’d think up the worst possible names for the given corp. As a means of clearing the cobwebs, etc. so we could look at the thing afresh, it worked every time. One company, whose partner we jokingly told of one of our world’s-worst names, still refers to itself internally by the joke name. It’s become something like the official nickname. So in that spirit, I’d like to add to your list:

(3) Require state employees to be armed during work hours, and one hour prior to and following the work day.

(4) Replace the mandatory retirement age with a more modern system in which the term of service is determined and periodically reevaluated on an individual basis.

[Rudy 08]

By Dedicated State Worker

October 30, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this

I am a state employee. I have worked for the state for 20 years in a law enforcement capacity. I am a dedicated state employee and contrary to popular assinine belief, I work hard for “US” taxpayers everyday. Everyone that works with my agency works just as hard as I do. I find it quite insulting that people assume that we do not deserve our pay.

There are clerks that work for state agency’s that make only $13,000 a year, which is ridiculous. Every year our medical and flexible benefits increase, this year they increased by 10%, but all employees if they receive a “met” on their performance plan will only receive a 2% raise. I have received a 2% percent pay raise every year,been furloughed-told that I don’t have to work that day, but it would be in my best interest if I came to work.

Yes, of course their have been people that abuse the system, but most of the those people have been high ranking in state government….just like with large corporations, the CEO gets a package of 10 million dollars when he leaves to go to another company or he recieves a 10 million dollar bonus a year. So, do not blame those of us that actually do the work.

Also, unlike most, I am required to work 30 years before I receive my pension. Most law enforcement officers can retire at 20 or 25 years and their benefits are substantial.

By Dusty

October 30, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

Shar@9:42

You asked of RedNeck, “From what have you converted?” I think I can give you the correct answer.

He converted from stupid to stupefying.

Yep, he’s a wolf in magnolia blossoms, a “beer drinker” of mint juleps, an Episcopalian singing Baptist, a stock broker “driving beer trucks”, a spiffy liberal hiding in “overalls”, a trailer parker in a gated community, and a tobacco-chewing buddy-boy at the “Country Club”.

But, he’s right about being a good American. Go vote. Vote Democratic if you want your taxes raised, socialized medicine, NO homeland security, yellow stripe retreat from Iraq, and HILLARY IN THE WHITE HOUSE. Now that’s no joke, except on the ones who “don’t get it”.

By Thomas Paine

October 30, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

It’s interesting that Tommy Hills (the state’s “CFO”) says that state employees are paid the same as employees for the federal government and large corporations—especially since the Governor’s recent study shows that employees receive only about 84% of the compensation and only 73% of the health care benefits as compared to “the market”. The same study also says that the difference is made up by increased benefits for state retirees—medical care at 170% and pension at 192% of the market. See http://www.spa.ga.gov/ppt/compensation/cb.mercercompbenefits_study.07.ppt

A few points: —the government will never pay market, regardless of what kind of Enronesque retirement plan they come up with —do some math on this—current situation: pay below market salaries for 30+ years to save money and use the time-value of money to pay out above market retirement for 5 or 10 years until the oldsters croak —proposed future: pay market rate salaries and increase today’s budget permanently to continue that —somebody needs to actually figure out the time-value of the money involved —public servants probably shouldn’t make market wages … something about “service” makes up for it. Besides, you can’t buy the right kind of person to be a cop, etc. There has to be an intangible of serving the public. Pay them enough to take care of their families and save some, but also reward them for thier service with a half-way decent pension —the state has had an unwritten contract with its employees: we won’t pay you much, but we continue to not pay you much when you retire—at least you’ll be used to it and can get by —as a former military officer, Mr. Wooten gets a pension. Does he feel that he and those who are serving now are entitled to it?

By Glenn

October 30, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

Then Dusty, why haven’t we ever seen him at the Club?

By Jack

October 30, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

Yes. The politicians will do the right thing. The sky is green and the Earth is flat. If I had a beard I would be Abe Lincoln.

By b6542

October 30, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

State should drop defined benefit plan and go to defined contribution plan. State teachers currently have option. Put everyone in 403B type plan and problem will solve itself over time. Politicians do not like because it puts retirees in control and not government.

By Glenn

October 30, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Citizen Paine,

Thanks for the succinct analysis. Should the unwritten contract — less now, but the certainty of less ever after — continue? If so, what does that say about the [un]necessity of moving the retirement age? Would retaining the tacit deal moot any privatization efforts?

And what about the “intangible” you referred to, the sincere commitment to e.g. public safety? We’ve all had friends or family or acquaintances who quite rationally have sought state employment because of the security and long-term certainty offered by the compensation packages. But for many young people considering work as e.g. public safety officers, the pkg. is, as you alluded to, only the concommitant. Do we then pay them less, or more?

[Tom Paine endorses Hillary 08!]

By jbmlaw

October 30, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

Dear Glenn @ 9:54, I think nobody will top your postal proposal #3. #5 - Perhaps we could offer distribution of state-confiscated illegal drugs as an “active” employee perk? Not sure whether that would help or hurt performance, however, but may reduce the number of retirees.

By Jack

October 30, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

If that is what Tommy Hills said he is a liar. State employees don’t get paid squat. Their pay isn’t close to big corporations. That is why they don’t get in a hurry to do anything. (other than police & fire & rescue who deserve much more $)

By Dusty

October 30, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

Glenn @10:33

We haven’t seen RedNeck because he’s over at the House of Hillary Club. I don’t go there.

By Dusty

October 30, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

Hell NO, we won’t go

Now be sweet today and try to behave. It’s worth a try. They might remove your handcuffs and shackles.

By Anita

October 30, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

All I have to say is that you get what you pay for. If you don’t provide a decent compensation for the State employees then you won’t receive decent state services. The State would have to hire individuals with very little skills. That would not be very good. We have enough of that with these politicians that are put in office.

By getalife

October 30, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

Where is Sonny’s water plan?

Good luck with that.

Geez.

By Curious Observer

October 30, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

A big drop in consumer confidence is reported this morning, making for a likely gloomy holiday season for retailers.

Keep voting those wingnuts into office, Wooten KKKlanners. Pretty soon your 401ks will be as empty as the stockings in Whoville after the Grinch finished his work. It’s all part of this Great Economy the GOP likes to boast about. And by all means, keep coming up with ways to screw state employees who, after all, should be willing to serve you for the mere privilege of doing so.

By Glenn

October 30, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

Field Marshal Viscountess Dusty of Wootenham,

In that case we should practice hard for the cross-town annual. Between your long drives and my barely legal chipping, we’ll beat Hill in Spring 08.

jubm, we’d do well for formulate your question as a testable hypothesis and then conduct a controlled experiment, like the Agency did in the ’60s. Who knows, we might get another Tim Leary or Ram Dass out of the equation, and just think of the revolution in state services that might in turn result! When next you’re over at the courthouse, would you be willing to make some inquiries as to who’s in control of the evidence locker?

By getalife

October 30, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

Check out Rudy’s latest ad

By Peter

October 30, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

You folks are all up in arms about ONE state’s issues, yet fail to look at the big picture…….

The USA is going bankrupt, we are using China for credit, and there is nothing about that here…….

Never will be the WRONGS are in control and wasting America’s resources…….of course there will be no mention of that here……

Again the question has been asked, but NEVER answered…….

How do we pay for the Iraq WAR without making the next generations pay for it ????

By Glenn

October 30, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

Field Marshal, there’s a place on a barge in Chalmette called The House of Hillary Club. They sell adult paraphernalia most of the year, together with nightly entertainment in their Lincoln Room, and then they reopen every Nov. - Jan. as a Christmas store. Agent Aldrich turned me on to the joint. Happening place.

By Frustrated

October 30, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

Wooten Writes: but they make it up in retirement. On the whole, though, as Perdue’s chief financial officer, Tommy Hills noted to legislators, state employees are compensated as well as those who work for the federal government and for other large employers in Georgia.

How am I going to make it up in retirement? I have been with the state for 15 years, BS degree, and make only $36,586 a year. I doubt I’ll will make it to 40k by the time I retire.

By Kathy

October 30, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this

Until around 1997 state employees had great benefits at a reasonable price. In the 1980’s employees received a cost of living increase as well as a performance increase.

We have gone through no raise for nearly 24 months, then only 2%. The cost of living has far outrun the increases we get. There are those directors and their equivalent that are hired in making $100,000 or more. Those of us rank and file who have been a state employee for 10 or more years are only thrown the proverbial’bread crumbs’.

We don’t have a choice of not contributing to the ERS. That and group term life membership is mandatory. You can’t opt out of either of these. They say they are protecting the employees. Didn’t they hire a responsible adult?

The insurance rates and plans are outrageous. If I weren’t a state employee (as we are excluded from the program), I would qualify for my child to have Peach Care. That is just sad.

I don’t know all the answers. I am not a financial advisor and know nothing of stocks and bonds, etc. Major corporations have better healthcare and retirement plans that we do. The State of Georgia’s insurance plans are self insured which means the state pays for all of the employees ailments with our premiums then money from you and me. I think there must be a different, better way of doing things.

Employees who retire after 20+ years of service are entitled to enjoy life and shouldn’t have to worry about whether their retirement benefits will be gone. Someone, please do something!

By Peter

October 30, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

Hey Kathy,

What is the BIG issue…… YOU write…….

“Employees who retire after 20+ years of service are entitled to enjoy life and shouldn’t have to worry about whether their retirement benefits will be gone. Someone, please do something!”

Hey Social security has been taken out of my pay for years…… over $200 K I have sent in……. Will I be getting that back when I retire ?

If I don’t get social security, why should you get the State retirement money ?

By Dusty

October 30, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

Glenn@11:12

Full speed ahead, dear Glenn. We rescued them at Dunkirk and we’ll rescue them again. Gather the vote boats and the brave ones for the fight!!

But would you excuse me for a moment? Peter is over at the the Waffle House screaming “The sky is falling! Help! Help!” He does this frequently after consuming copious syrup and Demo waffles. I try to help.

But I shall return to battle fully invigorated for blood, sweat and tears. Just call me Churchill.

From your comrade in arms, Field Marshal Viscountess Dusty of Wootenham..

By HellNo, We Won't Go

October 30, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

Frustrated - I know Dusty, but a BS degree from Devry in Criminology is just not worth very much on the open market, by my calculations, you are being over compensated by some 10,000 dollars per year, not counting the time you steal from the State to Blog all day long.

By Glenn

October 30, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

getalife, hi. I don’t go in for quick-cut shock editing, but I was trying to read the little “subliminable” word. Replayed several times, but could only make out the name Bush. Are you able to slow it down enough to read the words on your system? What are they?

Peter, I’ll give you a candid answer to your big question, “How do we pay for the Iraw WAR without making the next generations pay for it????” The answer is that we don’t. The war — if by that you are referring to the cost of the conflict, the invasion — already has been paid down and is in any event minor relative to the enormous expense of the bloody occupation, which expense will have to be spread over many years to come. The next generation (not generations) will indeed pay for it, just as most of the American killed and wounded in Iraq are young people. That’s the way it works, and it’s a way backyonderism, almost one of the definitive characteristics of warfare, and certainly of all modern warfare. It’s all hell, isn’t it?

By Peter

October 30, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

Dusty,

I guess you got out of bed today………

You are really non realistic….. nothing to add but babble as usual……

Go get them DUSTY….. hopefully your kids are saving as much as possible….. as they and their kids will be paying for this mess.

Bush as we all know is bankrupting the USA….. and you have zero solution as usual !!!!!!!

Babble on…… do what you do best !!!!

By HellNo, We Won't Go

October 30, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

Churchhill was a fat little freak who could not fight his way out of a paper bag. Boys beat the crap out of him all through school, and used his assss as a joy hole for years.

By PrincipalMargie

October 30, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

As I approach the end of my own career as an educator, I frequently ask myself, “Am I ready for retirement?” Frankly I feel a bit underprepared.

Maybe it’s just that I’m getting older, and turning into a cranky, change-averse Type A who’s experiencing a loss of control! But seriously, the world is changing so fast. And I really think I need to learn how to think like a retiree.

It’s not easy to face retirement. No one gives you a certificate saying, “You’re ready to go!” There are no classes to teach you how to enjoy a productive retirement. No one expects a retiree to make a difference in this world. I’ve been to my share of retirement parties, and all they give you is a pat on the back and something from Brookstone. After that, it’s sink or swim!

I think that a portion of the huge sums spent on state retirement should be earmarked by the state for retirement preparation. It would be very easy to ask AARP, for example, to provide a list of retirement skills and other ins-and-outs that would help people to make the most of their retirement years. This would be especially useful at this time, when so many are experiencing longer and longer retirement challenges. Also, it wouldn’t cost much money, from a federal perspective, for HHS or the Labor Department to contribute with a simple assessment protocol that could be used by all the states to evaluate employees nearing retirement and see where their strenghts and weakness lie. That would help ensure that the funds spent on retirement preparation are well targeted and efficiently spent.

This is just one suggestion for a way in which we all could get a better shot at “the pursuit of happiness”. Everyone retires sooner or later and, after all, we’ve earned it. I know I have!

By Glenn

October 30, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

Well, to paraphrase the impotent Hemingway, object of a deathless homoerotic phallic cult, the scum also rises.

By BS Aplenty

October 30, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

Jim, I agree with your thesis: transition from defined-benefit plans to defined-contribution - quickly.

Here’s an example of what can be accomplished with a 401(k) or similar defined contribution plan.

If the average state (or any other)employee makes $35,000 annually over his/her career (let’s say, age 25 - 60) and saves just 5% annually matched by a 5% contribution from the state (total = 10%), then the employee can expect to have savings of $603,000 at age 60. Your money, in your account, not subject to anybody but you.

This same employee could then deduct $42,800 annually from these funds until age 85 when the funds would be gone - not a bad start for retirement. Now, there needs to be some awareness of inflation over those 35 working years, but all-in-all, you get a good idea of the power of defined-contribution savings or the 401(k).

If any of you fine folks are not taking full advantage of your employers 401(k) plan, then I would strongly encourage your to ask your boss about it. There’s a solid retirement available and we owe it to ourselves to take advantage of our employers matching contributions.

P.S. Certified Financial Planners can help you come up with a sound financial plan for yourself and your family for a reasonable fee.

P.S.S. I’m not a CFP.

By The Oddball

October 30, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

Speaking as someone who serves in state government after two decades in the private sector, let me offer a couple of points: 1. State salaries lag so far behind the private sector that it is becoming almost impossible to attract or retain talented people, espcially in fields that require expertise. You get what you pay for, folks. Even the most public spirited person eventually has to repay their student loans or write a check for the kids’ college tuition. 2. Contrary to popular belief, the retirement benefits of a state employee aren’t that great. Cut ‘em down further, and even more folks will opt for the private sector. See # 1 above. I know it’s fashionable, especially among some of my Republican friends, to have contempt for government, but somebody has to doublecheck the insurance and utility rate hike requests, verify that the meat you eat in the restaurant didn’t spoil, and make sure the crime labs have enough people to examing the cocaine and ballistics. You want your tax cuts? Cut away. But Georgia government is well past the point of being understaffed and underfunded. Right now … we’re unsafe at any speed.

By Glenn

October 30, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

jbm, looks like somebody just topped our hypotheticals, @ 12:37.

By paulie_b

October 30, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

BS Aplenty so what happens to my employee pension under your scenario? Just curious.

By Dusty

October 30, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

Glenn @12:43

Good one! “The scum also rises.” Hemingway would be proud..

Peter @ 12:15

Try black coffee. That helps sometimes.

Hell no I won’t go @ all times

You couldn’t score points in a potato sack race. Give it up and move to the back of the line. Now go… go..!

By Peter

October 30, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

Dusty,

I only drink Black coffee, what is your excuse for offering zero ?

By Thomas Paine

October 30, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

Glenn, for what it’s worth, I despise Hillary Clinton, her husband, and their “fellow travelers”. Truth be told, I’m a Reagan Republican looking for a worthy successor to his legacy. Can you recommend one to me?

On the retirement issue: Nobody goes into public service and public safety to get rich. There are many who do believe the sorts of things that Pres. Reagan spoke about—selfless service, etc. The only thing they hope for is fair, not exceptional pay, and the opportunity for a decent life after service. The retirement system they participate in should be fair to them and to the tax payers. It should be on a sound financial footing. But the fact that the state has not adequately funded (through appropriated contributions or employee contributions) demonstrates poor business practices on the part of the state retirement system, not greedy, undeserving employees.

If I were 21 years old and starting out, I’m sure I’d be for the matching 401 plan. (I particpate in both of the state’s deferred compensation programs, although there is no matching.) But I’m well into the system now and don’t want it jeopardized. Another unspoken rule of the system: the state knows that most people who start with the system will not retire from it; therefore, the funds that the state sets aside for all employees ends up paying the retirements for a relative few. When new employees are no longer included in the pension program, the state’s percentage contribution for each of the existing employees will have to go up to keep the program solvent. The actual cost would likely not go up, but the per person cost for those still in the program will.

Now, if you want to get into the discussion of privatization … . I think privatization is one of the best things that has happened to state government—when used appropriately. When Zell got rid of state-owned water slides, etc., there was not one person in the state—government or private citizen—who could have or would have urged against it.

However here is an example of privatization that makes no sense. The Dept. of Corrections is paying close to $50/day/inmate (total over $80 million a year) for over 4,500 medium security, healthy inmates to be housed by private prisons. This exact same classification of prisoners cost the state a total of $30 per day (this includes security, food, medical, and a 20 year amortization of the construction costs of the prison). And on top of that, under the current commissioner, the state is not holding the private prisons to any performance standards and has no monitoring system to ensure adequate operations. That was not always the case, and in every state that has gone that route, there is a scandal with a subsequent report that states that the contracts should have had a clear set of standards and a monitoring process.

Why privatize when it costs the tax payers an extra $20/day/inmate? Check the political contributions of Corrections Corporation of America. And keep an eye on the current commissioner when he leaves state government to see where he goes to work.

Live free or die!

By BS Aplenty

October 30, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

paulie b -

Nothing should happen to your pension but that depends on your employer. Private businesses are swiftly moving away from pensions (defined-benefit) plans. I wouldn’t expect to see them offered in the next 10-15 years. Those private pension plans that still do exist are still subject to “termination” at the employers discretion. That means current benefits stand still until retirement.

I’m not familiar with state/federal pensions but I don’t think you’ll see them offered in coming years. Social Security and Medicare are about to start “eating a new one” in the federal budget and there won’t be enough money to pay for it all. Add in Hillary’s proposed Universal Healthcare and you’ve got a recipe for financial disaster (like the former Soviet Onion).

COLA’s in the state/federal pension systems are a big reason why I don’t think those pension plans will be offered. Private pesnions typically don’t have COLA provisions - but they won’t be around long.

By Peter

October 30, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this

Here you go kids…… not only are we in trouble in the housing market, we are in trouble in the credit card market………

(Fortune Magazine) — This past summer’s subprime meltdown involved about $900 billion in now-suspect securitized debt, reckless lending, and consumers who buckled under the weight of loans they couldn’t afford. Now another link in the consumer debt chain - credit cards - is starting to show signs of strain. And the fear that the $915 billion in U.S. credit card debt (an uncannily similar figure) may blow up has major financial institutions like Citigroup, American Express, and Bank of America strapping on their Kevlar vests.

Dennis Moroney, an analyst at TowerGroup, expects credit card delinquencies will rise as consumers, who have until now used home-equity lines of credit to pay off their cards, start ratcheting up higher card debt. When housing prices were rising, it was easy for consumers to tap the escalating values of their homes to keep borrowing. With the home-equity spigot turned off, over-leveraged consumers may have trouble keeping up with payments. The doomsday scenario would play out something like this: Just like CDOs and other asset-backed securities, credit card debt is sliced, diced, and sold off again as packages of securities. Rising delinquencies would hurt not only the banks involved but the securities backed by the credit card receivables. Those securities would decline in value as consumers defaulted, leading to bank losses as well as portfolio losses in the hedge funds, institutions, and pensions that own the securities. If the damage is widespread enough, it could wreak havoc on the economy much as the subprime crisis has done.

Funny how America thinks….. but let’s not forget we are learning this from our President !!!!!

He can borrow Billions from the Chinese to stage a WAR……. So why can’t American’s run up their credit cards, in the same fashion ?

Bush can pray to his GOD before attacking an other country…… SO why can’t we go and kill American’s on the street ?

All seems the same…… follow the LEADER……..

Lemming’s get in line !

By time to carpet bomb Iran NOW!!

October 30, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

From today’s Daily Mail

This, aside from the British cultural/political references could be San Fran Sicko or any other lliberal infested queer lovin’. illegal leech pandering, hippety hop gang banging liberal run socilaist paradise!!

Environment Secretary Ruth Kelly has announced plans to offer free travel advice to encourage us to walk, cycle or take the bus and cut down on “greenhouse emissions”. At a cost of “only” £10 million, 92,000 people are being counselled on how to reduce their car use by “up to” 14 per cent. This column rode shotgun on one pilot scheme.

Good morning, madam. I’m from the council.

Ruth Kelly has sent me along to advise you on your personal travel plans.

May I suggest leaving your gas-guzzling Suzuki jeep at home and taking the bus on the school run instead.

What’s that you say? You’ve got three children under 15 and they all go to different schools?

No problem, we’re here to help.

Have you considered one of those bicycles that the Goodies used to ride on television?

You can get three up and Halford’s will sell you a trailer to go on the back, made out of recycled toenails from Afghanistan, which comes with the Greenpeace seal of approval, yours for only £999.99 plus VAT.

Don’t worry if you can’t ride a bike, we can offer full training, in 23 different languages, including scribble.

In certain circumstances we are able to provide a grant to encourage you to shift from carbon-hungry modes of transport to a more ecologically friendly lifestyle.

You don’t happen to be an asylum seeker, do you? Pity.

Member of an ethnic minority?

Sorry, madam, white English doesn’t count, I’m afraid, ha, ha, not many of us left, if you know what I mean, but don’t quote me, more than my job’s worth.

No room on the form for it, anyway.

You’re not a lesbian, are you? No, please don’t be offended, not that there’s any reason why you should be offended, nothing wrong with it in this day and age, I might even give it a go myself if I was a woman.

I should have realised, you having three kids and all that, but these days you never know what with UVF or whatever they call it.

Anyway, best not to go there, you can’t be sure who’s listening.

Apparently they’ve got these satellites what can see from outer space whether you’ve got a gazebo — no, that’s not the word — you know, conservative thingy on the back of your house, so you have to pay more council tax and this bloke at the Town Hall said they can hear every word you say, even through the loft insulation they insist on now.

All I’m saying, like, is that if you was a sexually diverse person then we could get you 50 per cent off the price of your next tandem.

Same goes for community, we have to call them now.

You’re not one of them, are you?

‘Course not, otherwise you’d have a Toyota Land Cruiser, running on red diesel, not a Suzuki hairdresser’s job, plus a horse and cart, which also qualifies under the ozone-reduction scheme.

Transgendered? Me, neither. Not a clue.

There’s a box for it, though.

Sorry, this isn’t getting us anywhere, well not you anyway, nor your kids to school.

I suggest you take the number 69 from the bottom of Nelson Mandela Way, that’s about 20 minutes’ walk from here with a fair wind.

It goes straight past the nursery, you can drop off your youngest.

That runs every two hours on the quarter hour, unless there’s a strike, which there usually is, though not as often as on the Tube.

Then take the W9 Shoppa Hoppa, pikeys, sorry, members of the travelling don’t mind standing, do you?

‘Cos they’ve taken out all the seats to get more people in and meet the Department’s targets on optimum occupancy in line with the European standard agreed at Limoges last Tuesday and to help them get wheelchairs on, not that you ever get anyone in a wheelchair on a bus, they all get minicabs paid for by the council.

Change at the Steve Biko shopping precinct on to the number 27, which will get to the front gate of your daughter’s school by about lunchtime, it’s cottage pie Tuesdays, or vegetarian alternative, which I wouldn’t advise frankly, tastes like carpet underlay my Kylie says.

Then your eldest can catch the bendy bus to the Desmond Tutu Comprehensive and should be there in time for the going home bell. How much is all this going to cost, I can hear you saying.

Well, a single journey is £4, unless you buy one of Mayor Livingstone’s Lobster Cards, if you don’t mind handing over your e-mail address, your blood group and your mother’s maiden name, why they want to know all that for a bus pass is beyond me.

And there’s Brown talking about cutting down on snooping.

He’s having a laugh.

But the good news is that your eldest won’t have to pay anything because no one does on those bendy buses, ever since they did away with conductors, though I’d get him a stab vest just in case, to be on the safe side.

Take no notice of the scraping sound, that’ll be a pedestrian being dragged along underneath, or else a cyclist, bloody nuisance if you ask me, with any luck it will be Boris Wossname or that Call Me Dave bloke with the windmill.

Now, I know what you’re going to say: how are you supposed to do your grocery shopping, since all the local shops have been turned into Carphone Warehouses or Starbucks, or places what only sell fireworks, and the nearest Tesco is five miles away, off the ring road at the back of the Keir Hardie industrial estate?

You could always walk.

That would be a great way of offsetting your carbon footprint and getting fit, not that I’m implying, madam, and think of how much you’d be saving in petrol.

I don’t know how that Gordon Brown gets away with it, daylight robbery if you ask me.

Just think of all the polar bears what’s being saved from dying of ozones, though.

How did I get into this line of work?

Since you ask, I used to be a black cab driver until Red Ken ripped up the Knowledge and started fast-tracking immigrants into the trade and flooding the streets with bloody rickshaws.

Soho looks like downtown Kowloon these days, there’s no money in it, not even to the airport, that’s always assuming you can get a fare back to Ilford.

And then there’s the bus lanes and the bloody traffic lights which only change on to green for about five seconds.

The congestion charge was supposed to help but from where I’m sitting it’s only made things ten times worse and now he wants to charge 25 quid a day for SUVs, which is another reason, madam, for leaving the Suzuki at home.

So I sees this “green personal transport co-ordinator” being advertised in the Walthamstow Guardian and I think with my 30 years of experience I’ll give it a go.

Be a fool not to, actually, at 40 grand a year, plus index-linked pension and London weighting, it’s more than I used to clear at the cab game and the hours are better, no more late nights or drunks throwing up all over the upholstery.

I had that Al Gore in the back of my cab once…

Felling depressed? Suicidal? Don’t read on…

A snapshot of Britain from the weekend papers.

Muslim prisoners are suing for £2million under the “yuman rites” act because ham sandwiches are on the menu.

Schoolchildren are being banned from wearing football boots in case they trip on the studs and hurt themselves.

Circuses are disappearing because of new council licensing regulations and the burden of elf’n’safety rules.

The Government’s recycling agency wants us to return to wartime rationing to cut food waste and force us to live on bubble and squeak and leftovers which have passed their sell-by date.

Tens of thousands of people are opting for medical treatment abroad, including India and Hungary, to avoid the National MRSA Service.

And it has been revealed that the average zebra crossing costs £114,000.

Makes you proud to be British

By BS Aplenty

October 30, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

peter if I didn’t know better I’d think redneck convert’s family tree didn’t branch and you’re the result.

You’ve been rhetorical like a good liberal lap-dog, with no sound ideas, just more of the same mindless rambling - but it’s a liberal hallmark. Brain-dead morons like you are the reason TFTT makes sense. Keep up the good work, goober.

By Dusty

October 30, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

Peter @ 1:35

You didn’t drink enough black coffee this morning. I see your house of cards is falling just like the sky.

Dearest Peter, my contribution at the moment is to stick pins into pompous politicos who purposely propose pitiful proclamations of pointless pentameters. Such as “why can’t we go KILL Americans on the street?”!! and “The DOOMSDAY scenario could come out something like this!”

Of course, Peter means “We are hapless and hopeless and the only cure is to vote for Democrats!! Ah so!!

Bring poor Peter some more good java. Hurry!!

By State Retiree II

October 30, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

First, I find it difficult to believe that anyone wants to see the crap that some of the people put into this very important topic here. Only makes me understand better why there are so many fools walking around out there. Second, I didn’t think that there was anyone in state government that could top the idiocy of Nehf and the do-nothings that work for him at the ERS. In steps…Tommy Hills. I can tell he is a Sonny-Do man, just like Nehf. Lastly, I only hope that the voting block of state retirees and their families will come to understand how the current crop of folks under the gold dome care so little for not only current state employees, but have absolutely no respect for the men and women who served this state faithfully for an adult lifetime. Maybe the AJC should re-run the article they printed earlier this year on how state troopers and GBI agents are leaving state employment by the dozens every month to go with federal law enforcement agencies. Son…they ain’t doing it for the better class of criminals at the federal level! Many state employees have had the opportunity to leave and go with the feds, but who wants to take a risk in being assigned to Butte? I recently had a friend in state government email me stating how he was hoping that he would make his 34 years of service and be able to enjoy the good life before the current administration brings state government crashing down around all of us.
By the way, in 2039 Nehf, most of us state retirees reading this will be long gone but we can only pray that you leave state government more quickly.

By Peter

October 30, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

GO DUSTY…

MORE meaningless babble………show ALL some intelligence !

Dusty tell us something useful !

By Glenn

October 30, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

Citizen Paine,

Muchisimas gracias for the clear explication. I see that BS Aplenty, Kathy, Odball and others here also are hitting this topic in earnest.

I’m familiar with the government practice of tinkering with starting salaries vs. tiered salary increases vs. high pay ceilings vs. fattened retirement packages to see which combo gets the best recruitment and retention results. But until your post it’d simply not occurred to me that of course the state also is cunning with respect to attrition and its impact on actual retirement expenditures. Very interesting. Shouldn’t all of the transactional t1t-for-tat be made more frank and transparent? Wouldn’t that help?

Such transparency is of course used to break logjams in labor negotiations. A similar transparency is even considered a prerequisite for successful arms control negotiations. Perhaps some prospective employees would want more up front in exchange for less down the road, while others might want it the other way around. If the state’s already approaching macro-level compensation-planning with something approaching the maturity of actuarial science, then wouldn’t it be productive to put those same cards on the table at the micro level, where the deal goes down, employee-by-employee? It seems a natural complement of e.g. health care portability and the defined-contribution approach advocated here: give the agencies less agency, the employees more agency.

Alas no, I don’t know of a worth heir to Dutch’s legacy. I’m newly for Rudy myself, but I doubt that he fills your prescription, though his mayoralty was similar to Reagan’s governorship, and in some ways more conservative. At some point, though, it’s apples & oranges, as Reagan and his predecessor presided over the necessarily huge governmental (and pension) expansion of a burgeoning and booming state, whereas Rudy was largely a pathologist. Perhaps Huck’s your man. He continues to be a source of pleasant surprises.

Thanks for the tip on the Corrections scamminess. I’ll keep an eye on it. That’s actually just the sort of thing I’m good at. (Evidently Jack & Analchord & jbm here are cursed with the dark gift, too.) Speaking of talent, let’s help keep Ken Blackwell on the GOP bench and in game shape.

By Peter

October 30, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

Well BS has spoken…… MORE babble…….

By BS Aplenty

October 30, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

peter if I didn’t know better I’d think redneck convert’s family tree didn’t branch and you’re the result.

You’ve been rhetorical like a good liberal lap-dog, with no sound ideas, just more of the same mindless rambling - but it’s a liberal hallmark. Brain-dead morons like you are the reason TFTT makes sense. Keep up the good work, goober.

OK no real info again…….just name calling in the good Old WRONG way…..

Go get them BS…… I guess we all know what that stands for……!

BY the way who do we pay for the war BS ?

By Glenn

October 30, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this

Marshal Dusty, your alliteration’s punktillyuthly pertinent & perthpikayshuth. Not to mention your athonanth.

By Dusty

October 30, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

From Peter @ 2:17

“Dusty tell us something useful!”

You try first, Peter, and then I’ll “go for it”.

By Time to Nuke Israel NOW

October 30, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Wipe those blood sucking thieves from the face of the earth.

By PrincipalMargie

October 30, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

Dear State Retiree II:

There is no call for mocking people as “fools”. It looks to me as though the people here take this topic as seriously as you and I do. Some of us have put some of our very best ideas into this effort. We respect your views. Why can’t you respect the views of others?

By newkid

October 30, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

I offer this idea rather tongue-in-cheek. Perhaps the proposed pieces of ‘corrective’ legislation should all be amended to mandate that all current and future state government employees be required to begin or continue smoking. This approach will cut an average of 10 years off the expected benefit stream for each employee, and render the meager 3% COLA of absolutely no fiscal concern in the decades ahead.

By Peter

October 30, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

Typical Dusty……… Ok tell us who pays for the war?…… I say the kids and grand kids…….

By BS Aplenty

October 30, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

peter

You pay solidiers, dillweed. But I’ll make you a deal - we bring the troops home (but we still have to pay the soldiers, see how that works?) and the next attack by al-Quaida hits your hovel first.

By Peter

October 30, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

Good job…….. makes allot of sense…… 3rd grade education ???

By BS Aplenty October 30, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

peter

You pay solidiers, dillweed. But I’ll make you a deal - we bring the troops home (but we still have to pay the soldiers, see how that works?) and the next attack by al-Quaida hits your hovel first

Wow….. talk about the fork not branching to far from the tree !

By Frank

October 30, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

I bought a car yesterday and when I signed the papers, all the salesmen in the whole place ran into the showroom and began celebration dances, including the cabbage patch, five guys doing the high five, the funky chicken, the boogaloo, the monster mash, and the dead bug. I called the Better Business Bureau which prompted an apology from the sales manager, who said he only wanted the original salesman to do the you’re momma. I got a free oil change out of it, so I’m fine. It didn’t affect me at all….(nibby nobby who who)

By paulie_b

October 30, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

BS Aplenty @ 1:30

gracias.

By jbmlaw

October 30, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

Dear TFTT @ 1:44, funny post. Is the Daily Mail a straight-shooter, or is it like the NYT?

Dear newkid @ 2:39, a worthy contribution, my compliments. Did you see that peculiar article in the WSJ last Friday, http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110010784?

Dear Peter @ 2:39, “Ok tell us who pays for the war?…… I say the kids and grand kids…….” No, silly, the same people who pay for everything spent by the government – the rich.

By HowardK

October 30, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

The price of oil is up 53 percent over a year ago, creeping up now toward the mid-$90-range. The news media is still AWOL on the subject. (The New York Times has nothing about it on today’s front page.) The dollar is losing a penny a week against the Euro. In essence, the American standard of living is dropping like a sash weight. So far, a stunned public is stumbling into impoverishment drunk on Britney Spears video clips. If they ever do sober up, and get to a “…hey, wait a minute…” moment when they recognize the gulf between reality and the story told by leaders in government, business, education, and the media, it is liable to be a very ugly moment in US history. One of the stupidest assumptions made by the educated salient of adults these days is that we are guaranteed a smooth transition between the cancerous hypertrophy of our current economic environment and the harsher conditions that we are barreling toward. The university profs and the tech sector worker bees are still absolutely confident that some hypothetical “they” will “come up with” magical rescue remedies for running the Happy Motoring system without gasoline. My main message to lecture audiences these days is “…quit putting all your mental energy into propping up car dependency and turn your attention to other tasks such as walkable communities and reviving passenger rail….” Inevitably, someone will then get up and propose that the transition to all-electric cars is nearly upon us, and we should stop worrying. As I said, these are the educated denizens of the colleges. Imagine what the nascar morons believe – that the ghost of Davey Crockett will leave a jug of liquefied “dark matter” under everyone’s Christmas tree this year or next, guaranteed to keep the engines ringing until Elvis ushers in the Rapture. The educated folks – that is, the ones subject to the grandiose story-lines of techno-triumphalism taught in the universities – are sure that we’ll either invent or organize our way out of the current predicament. A society that put men on the moon in 1969, the story goes, will ramp up another “Apollo Project” to keep things going here. One wonders, of course, what they mean by keeping things going. Even if it were hypothetically possible to keep all the cars running forever, would it be good thing to make suburban-sprawl-building the basis of our economy – because that’s the direct consequence of perpetually cheap energy. Has anyone noticed that the housing bubble and subsequent implosion is following the peak oil line exactly? It’s a bit harder to discern what the assumptions really are among leaders in the finance sector, since so much of their activity the past ten years has veered into sheer fraud. The story line that everyone is putting out – from the Fed chairman Bernanke to the CEOs of the Big Fundz – is that American finance is a python that has swallowed a few too many pigs, but if we jigger around interest rates a little bit more, and allow some more money to be lent out cheaply, the python will eventually digest the pigs and go slithering happily on its way along the jungle trail with a burp and a fart. From this vantage, one sees a rather different story: more like a gang of human grifters sweating through their Prada suits as it becomes increasingly impossible to conceal massive losses incurred through overt reckless misbehavior. My own guess is that a lot of these boyz will be in line for criminal prosecution before too long.

By Kieran

October 30, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

newkid, while we’re at it let’s get the feds to spike the tobacco tax so the U.S. Treasury can cash in on GA’s incentivized-smoking program. Then Spkr. Pelosi can use tobacco tax revenues as a sound funding stream for children’s health services. Light Up! It’s for the Children!

By Peter

October 30, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

JBMLAW…… wow another really brilliant statement below……

Dear Peter @ 2:39, “Ok tell us who pays for the war?…… I say the kids and grand kids…….” No, silly, the same people who pay for everything spent by the government – the rich.

Oh yes the Rich pays for it all……

No the middle class pays more in taxes…… the rich get to manipulate system………

But you know that as a lawyer…..

And our kids, and grand kids, weather they are Rich or Poor will pay….

By ron

October 30, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

. HowardK . huh? only thing missing from that heaving diatribe was something about sweaty capitalist pigs becoming honest communists one day!

By jbmlaw

October 30, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

Funny item for the afternoon, which happens to be true: a website got the uncensored version (http://www.desmogblog.com/full-version-of-white-house-edited-cdc-climate-report-with-hightlights) of the harangue CDC Director Julie Gerberding wished to inflict upon the Senate. Taranto’s quote and comment:

(Taranto) But a global-warmist blog has obtained the redacted report, and it contains one claim that is hysterical in the sense of “laugh-out-loud funny” instead of the usual “sky is falling!” sense:

“Mental Health Problems “Some Americans may suffer anxiety, depression, and similar symptoms in anticipating climate change and/or in coping with its effects.”

(Taranto) That’s right, global warmism is a mental disease, and the Bush administration is covering it up so that people like Al Gore do not get the help they need!

By time to CARPET BOMB Iran for at least a month or so!!

October 30, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

cheers for the kind words BS Aplenty.

I reckon this penis puller peter pecker should be joint first for a deadly flying magic carpet anthrax towel head attack - but wot abaht the anal sad wanKKKer aborted fourskins I hear most of the folks cry?? … a superb opportunity this to lob in 1 of me witty but mostly ‘armless taylor maid vainglorious death to anal wankers death threats!! Then there’s peeping tom, the psychotic VT child rapist, crack pipe debbie turd, the Klintons, the Pelosibitch and …. feck it!! life’s too damn short

DEATH TO ALL TREASONOUS SCUMBAG LIBERALS!!

If U’re not a treasonous scum bag cut and run liberal sewerRAT then this don’t likely completely apply to U, but if U are then please please pretty please GFY!!

The USAF should commandeer ALL the output of the Honey Baked Ham Company for the next month or so and then in a brazen Friday lunchtime sneak attack on Tehran saturate the sh iitehole (geddit??) with some real frozen food for the folks!! See American hospitality just needs carefully planning!! Then the nazi like Iranian scum can really pig out for the day!!

By Glenn

October 30, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

Peter, ‘sbest ahc’n tell, you & your dear friend jbm are both right. The middle class will take it in the neck, the rich will pay more than their share, the working poor probably will suffer disproportionately, in both their tax payments and diminution of services on which they may depend. All in all, a cluster job, and quite sad. Like Cump sed, it’s all hell.

Disagree with you guys, though, about the “grandkids” flourish. The present generation of youth will pay it off, through the nose. We fogeys too, until that nasty baton is fully passed.

[Rudy 08]

By BS Aplenty

October 30, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

tftt - no thanks needed. Keep up the good work.

By .

October 30, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

jbm

the Daily Mail - link on Drudge to all UK papers - is a solidly Tory, truly conservative paper. Arguably the ONLY one left with the guts to systematically openly sneer at Tony B.Liar and his sullen inbred haggis gobbling successor the dour G Brown.

Peter Hitchens - the usually very sound, politically right of centre conservative (and pretty religious too) brother of C. Hitchens writes a regular column for them. As does the inimitable towel head terrorist despising Melanie Philips

http://www.melaniephillips.com/

By Glenn

October 30, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

jbm, that makes my day. Saved the full text yesterday, why I don’t know. No you’ve given me reason to go ahead and read the thing. Will do so when next I’m in need of the good doctor’s comic relief. Still say it’s necessary for her to sever from Emory, or else stay there and leave CDC. Inherent conflict and all that.

By Frank

October 30, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

Hello, sir. Are you feeling run down? Has global warming put a chill on your outlook. Has drought dampened your spirits? Has wildfires and drought thrown cold water on your life, and reduced you to tears? Has CO2 emissions and other greenhouse gasses cast gloom on your outlook? Then you may be suffering from Planet Formation Syndrome. Yes, planets go through a series of evolutionary phases which alter the geo-magnetic fields which in turn affect the neuro-biological sensory apparatus which make up most of our emotions. Simply have the planet you’re on take two comets a day and call me in the ensuing ice age. Caution: dont take any compensatory orbital remedies without first consulting your astro-physicist.

Special asteroids available on Jupiter, Uranus and Mars. Void where prohibited by greenpeace vigilantes.

By Peter

October 30, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

Wow Carpet BOMB…….

Here is some real logic……

“reckon this penis puller peter pecker should be joint first for a deadly flying magic carpet anthrax towel head attack - but wot abaht the anal sad wanKKKer aborted fourskins I hear most of the folks cry??”

Good thing he piped up, now all the problems have been solved !!!!

“DEATH TO ALL TREASONOUS SCUMBAG LIBERALS!!

If U’re not a treasonous scum bag cut and run liberal sewerRAT then this don’t likely completely apply to U, but if U are then please please pretty please GFY!!”

Funny America was founded by folks from all over the world with all types of ideas……

I guess the WRONGS all come from one nationality, and come from one type of mind set……pity the name calling never stops…..

Democracy abounds with the WRONGS !

By Thomas Paine

October 30, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

Glenn:

Just to clarify—the high costs of private prisons have been a burden on the state since 1998. The only difference between then and now is that previously the vendors were at least held to a standard and monitored. I can’t imagine how “better business practices” are furthered when there is no meaningful oversight of contracts.

Regarding the benefits of increased transparency in the retirement system (and the rest of government)—I agree with you 100%. At the risk of being called a liberal because I’m quoting one … “Sunlight is the best disinfectant.” Hey, a good quote is a good quote.

By Frank

October 30, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

Is a female terrorist a veiled threat?

By Glenn

October 30, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

Frank, what assurances can you give us that if we come to grips with our denial and accept your diagnosis of Planet Formation Syndrome, we won’t be found on bunk beds, grinning eternally in our new tracksuits and tennies? We’re quite serious about this transaction but hesitate to close, pending your answer.

By DEATH TO ALL TREASONOUS SCUMBAG LIBERALS

October 30, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this

DUH!!!

peter pecker the penis puller CANNOT recognise an apposite, witty, trenchant yet suitably restrained sneer or two when it sees one!!

indeed peter pecker is DUMB enuff to actually cretinously dismiss my astute, crowd pleasing banter as “name calling”. It is in fact purely factually descriptive comment.

finally vaingloriously puking up this witless bollocks

Democracy abounds with the WRONGS !

well that fooking well told me folks!! - I have been verbally smashed to pulp and triumphantly forever eviscerated by such bold stunning magical repartee that NOT EVEN an AIDS ridden surrender monkey like peeping tom could manage to suck from the ether and puke up my way in one of its more poisonous Bush Derangement Syndrome sissy/hissy fits!!

good on yer peter pecker turd … yer finally stumped me n got me to STFU … NOT … (see Borat usage)

By Frank

October 30, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry, glenn, but that ship has sailed. Maybe if you had worn a little more tin foil on your wire- hat, you would have been aware of the embarkation deadline.

Silly rabbit, atmospherics aren’t for Keds.

By Glenn

October 30, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

Ha!

By State Retiree II

October 30, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

PrincipalMargie — Have you tried reading these responses? You don’t think some of those offering comments here that have nothing to do with the topic at hand are idiocy? If not, you need to stop and smell the roses again or whatever you have been smoking as well as these others that don’t have a clue. Does Principal equal TRS? If so, I guess that you and your fellow teachers and administrators of the public school system along with the folks in the judicial and legislative state retiree groups don’t have a problem with what the governor and the ERS Board have done to the loyal state retirees who are now being screwed. I mean, would I have written a response to you and scolded you if it had been the other way around and ERS had funded our 1.5% COLA in January (as they have done for the past 25+ years) but the TRS Board only gave you .5%(How much has inflation gone up? How much will our health insurance premiums go up in January…10%? How much money will we retirees and our families lose —forever?). I will show some respect when I see that the current administration gives a hoot about state employees and state retirees. I will show some respect when ERS does what they are supposed to do and look out for state retirees’ best interests. As it is, I for one know personally that ERS is a waste of tax payer’s money. For what ERS does the governor could put that entity under the Gerogia Secretary of State’s office and saver the tax payer’s some real money for a rainy day.
ERS retirees don’t have the unions and lawyers to look after us like the teachers do. ERS retirees don’t have the politicians looking after the other part-time politicians in their retirement system. Wonder what the judges and attorneys in the judicial retirement system would say if their retirement fund was not funded properly? I’d love to read some comments by members of those other state retiree group. If they don’t think it’s coming they better get their heads out of the sand. But, since the teachers and others got their COLAs approved by their boards I guess everything is all right…huh? Listen lady…if you think some of the comments here are not way off course of what you rightly say that I believe is an important topic you are certainly reading between the lines. newKid — just to show good ole Margie that I am not without a soul, I would like to say that your tongue-in-cheek comment was very good…but, please don’t email it to one of the current reps or senators or we’ll acually have one of those guys put pen to paper on it. If I was still working I’d give you an atta’boy for your comment. Here’s a thought….let’s ask an FBI Agent, ICE Agent, DEA Agent or other federal employee how much of a raise they are getting this year. And, for all you brothers out there that may be listening in…WHAT ABOUT SOME OF THESE SIGNAL 16 COMMENTS!

By Frank

October 30, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

There’s nothing like a 500 manifesto, (most of which was copied word for word from the rambling preamble to “Mein Pet Goat”, which W was reading on 911), to straighten a blog out.

By Call 911

October 30, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this

STFU, frank, you idiot.

By Peter

October 30, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

By DEATH TO ALL TREASONOUS SCUMBAG LIBERALS

October 30, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this

DUH!!!

Yes you said it all…..

Wow the intelligence abounds……

By Glenn

October 30, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

jbm, thanks for the link to the Daily Mail. Any particular phillips entry I should read first?

By les

October 30, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

I recently took a service retirement at age 60 from the State of Georgia with 18 years of service. I have a small, but helpful pension, and I now work in a private company.

I voted for Sonny Perdue in 2002 (or more appropriately, against Roy Barnes). After seeing what a vile, evil bully Perdue is and how he is intent on raiding the state coffers (maybe Wooten should write a long article about how Perdue’s personal wealth has ballooned while ‘serving’ Georgia), I voted against Perdue in 2006.

Not only will he destroy the state retirement system which has functioned wonderfully well before his tenure, he will not rest until he squeezes every penny from this state and leave it literally high and dry. The lying SOB is trying to frame the current drought problem as man against mussel. He merely wants developers to fatten his bank accounts so that when north Georgia lies broken and desolate, he can live the life of luxury on some private estate with plenty of water.

Hopefully, the heat and dryness of hell will follow him .

By Frank

October 30, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this

How dare you talk to me that way, call911, HOW DARE YOU?

I have been trying to supply a comodicum of dignity to this blog amidst all the white noise and you dare to tell me to stfu?

By HowardK

October 30, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

Alan Greenspan on the Gold Standard

An almost hysterical antagonism toward the gold standard is one issue which unites statists of all persuasions. They seem to sense - perhaps more clearly and subtly than many consistent defenders of laissez-faire - that gold and economic freedom are inseparable, that the gold standard is an instrument of laissez-faire and that each implies and requires the other.

In order to understand the source of their antagonism, it is necessary first to understand the specific role of gold in a free society.

Money is the common denominator of all economic transactions. It is that commodity which serves as a medium of exchange, is universally acceptable to all participants in an exchange economy as payment for their goods or services, and can, therefore, be used as a standard of market value and as a store of value, i.e., as a means of saving.

The existence of such a commodity is a precondition of a division of labor economy. If men did not have some commodity of objective value which was generally acceptable as money, they would have to resort to primitive barter or be forced to live on self-sufficient farms and forgo the inestimable advantages of specialization. If men had no means to store value, i.e., to save, neither long-range planning nor exchange would be possible.

What medium of exchange will be acceptable to all participants in an economy is not determined arbitrarily. First, the medium of exchange should be durable. In a primitive society of meager wealth, wheat might be sufficiently durable to serve as a medium, since all exchanges would occur only during and immediately after the harvest, leaving no value-surplus to store. But where store-of-value considerations are important, as they are in richer, more civilized societies, the medium of exchange must be a durable commodity, usually a metal. A metal is generally chosen because it is homogeneous and divisible: every unit is the same as every other and it can be blended or formed in any quantity. Precious jewels, for example, are neither homogeneous nor divisible. More important, the commodity chosen as a medium must be a luxury. Human desires for luxuries are unlimited and, therefore, luxury goods are always in demand and will always be acceptable. Wheat is a luxury in underfed civilizations, but not in a prosperous society. Cigarettes ordinarily would not serve as money, but they did in post-World War II Europe where they were considered a luxury. The term “luxury good” implies scarcity and high unit value. Having a high unit value, such a good is easily portable; for instance, an ounce of gold is worth a half-ton of pig iron.

In the early stages of a developing money economy, several media of exchange might be used, since a wide variety of commodities would fulfill the foregoing conditions. However, one of the commodities will gradually displace all others, by being more widely acceptable. Preferences on what to hold as a store of value, will shift to the most widely acceptable commodity, which, in turn, will make it still more acceptable. The shift is progressive until that commodity becomes the sole medium of exchange. The use of a single medium is highly advantageous for the same reasons that a money economy is superior to a barter economy: it makes exchanges possible on an incalculably wider scale.

Whether the single medium is gold, silver, seashells, cattle, or tobacco is optional, depending on the context and development of a given economy. In fact, all have been employed, at various times, as media of exchange. Even in the present century, two major commodities, gold and silver, have been used as international media of exchange, with gold becoming the predominant one. Gold, having both artistic and functional uses and being relatively scarce, has significant advantages over all other media of exchange. Since the beginning of World War I, it has been virtually the sole international standard of exchange. If all goods and services were to be paid for in gold, large payments would be difficult to execute and this would tend to limit the extent of a society’s divisions of labor and specialization. Thus a logical extension of the creation of a medium of exchange is the development of a banking system and credit instruments (bank notes and deposits) which act as a substitute for, but are convertible into, gold.

A free banking system based on gold is able to extend credit and thus to create bank notes (currency) and deposits, according to the production requirements of the economy. Individual owners of gold are induced, by payments of interest, to deposit their gold in a bank (against which they can draw checks). But since it is rarely the case that all depositors want to withdraw all their gold at the same time, the banker need keep only a fraction of his total deposits in gold as reserves. This enables the banker to loan out more than the amount of his gold deposits (which means that he holds claims to gold rather than gold as security of his deposits). But the amount of loans which he can afford to make is not arbitrary: he has to gauge it in relation to his reserves and to the status of his investments.

When banks loan money to finance productive and profitable endeavors, the loans are paid off rapidly and bank credit continues to be generally available. But when the business ventures financed by bank credit are less profitable and slow to pay off, bankers soon find that their loans outstanding are excessive relative to their gold reserves, and they begin to curtail new lending, usually by charging higher interest rates. This tends to restrict the financing of new ventures and requires the existing borrowers to improve their profitability before they can obtain credit for further expansion. Thus, under the gold standard, a free banking system stands as the protector of an economy’s stability and balanced growth. When gold is accepted as the medium of exchange by most or all nations, an unhampered free international gold standard serves to foster a world-wide division of labor and the broadest international trade. Even though the units of exchange (the dollar, the pound, the franc, etc.) differ from country to country, when all are defined in terms of gold the economies of the different countries act as one-so long as there are no restraints on trade or on the movement of capital. Credit, interest rates, and prices tend to follow similar patterns in all countries. For example, if banks in one country extend credit too liberally, interest rates in that country will tend to fall, inducing depositors to shift their gold to higher-interest paying banks in other countries. This will immediately cause a shortage of bank reserves in the “easy money” country, inducing tighter credit standards and a return to competitively higher interest rates again.

A fully free banking system and fully consistent gold standard have not as yet been achieved. But prior to World War I, the banking system in the United States (and in most of the world) was based on gold and even though governments intervened occasionally, banking was more free than controlled. Periodically, as a result of overly rapid credit expansion, banks became loaned up to the limit of their gold reserves, interest rates rose sharply, new credit was cut off, and the economy went into a sharp, but short-lived recession. (Compared with the depressions of 1920 and 1932, the pre-World War I business declines were mild indeed.) It was limited gold reserves that stopped the unbalanced expansions of business activity, before they could develop into the post-World Was I type of disaster. The readjustment periods were short and the economies quickly reestablished a sound basis to resume expansion.

But the process of cure was misdiagnosed as the disease: if shortage of bank reserves was causing a business decline-argued economic interventionists-why not find a way of supplying increased reserves to the banks so they never need be short! If banks can continue to loan money indefinitely-it was claimed-there need never be any slumps in business. And so the Federal Reserve System was organized in 1913. It consisted of twelve regional Federal Reserve banks nominally owned by private bankers, but in fact government sponsored, controlled, and supported. Credit extended by these banks is in practice (though not legally) backed by the taxing power of the federal government. Technically, we remained on the gold standard; individuals were still free to own gold, and gold continued to be used as bank reserves. But now, in addition to gold, credit extended by the Federal Reserve banks (“paper reserves”) could serve as legal tender to pay depositors.

When business in the United States underwent a mild contraction in 1927, the Federal Reserve created more paper reserves in the hope of forestalling any possible bank reserve shortage. More disastrous, however, was the Federal Reserve’s attempt to assist Great Britain who had been losing gold to us because the Bank of England refused to allow interest rates to rise when market forces dictated (it was politically unpalatable). The reasoning of the authorities involved was as follows: if the Federal Reserve pumped excessive paper reserves into American banks, interest rates in the United States would fall to a level comparable with those in Great Britain; this would act to stop Britain’s gold loss and avoid the political embarrassment of having to raise interest rates. The “Fed” succeeded; it stopped the gold loss, but it nearly destroyed the economies of the world, in the process. The excess credit which the Fed pumped into the economy spilled over into the stock market-triggering a fantastic speculative boom. Belatedly, Federal Reserve officials attempted to sop up the excess reserves and finally succeeded in braking the boom. But it was too late: by 1929 the speculative imbalances had become so overwhelming that the attempt precipitated a sharp retrenching and a consequent demoralizing of business confidence. As a result, the American economy collapsed. Great Britain fared even worse, and rather than absorb the full consequences of her previous folly, she abandoned the gold standard completely in 1931, tearing asunder what remained of the fabric of confidence and inducing a world-wide series of bank failures. The world economies plunged into the Great Depression of the 1930’s.

With a logic reminiscent of a generation earlier, statists argued that the gold standard was largely to blame for the credit debacle which led to the Great Depression. If the gold standard had not existed, they argued, Britain’s abandonment of gold payments in 1931 would not have caused the failure of banks all over the world. (The irony was that since 1913, we had been, not on a gold standard, but on what may be termed “a mixed gold standard”; yet it is gold that took the blame.) But the opposition to the gold standard in any form-from a growing number of welfare-state advocates-was prompted by a much subtler insight: the realization that the gold standard is incompatible with chronic deficit spending (the hallmark of the welfare state). Stripped of its academic jargon, the welfare state is nothing more than a mechanism by which governments confiscate the wealth of the productive members of a society to support a wide variety of welfare schemes. A substantial part of the confiscation is effected by taxation. But the welfare statists were quick to recognize that if they wished to retain political power, the amount of taxation had to be limited and they had to resort to programs of massive deficit spending, i.e., they had to borrow money, by issuing government bonds, to finance welfare expenditures on a large scale.

Under a gold standard, the amount of credit that an economy can support is determined by the economy’s tangible assets, since every credit instrument is ultimately a claim on some tangible asset. But government bonds are not backed by tangible wealth, only by the government’s promise to pay out of future tax revenues, and cannot easily be absorbed by the financial markets. A large volume of new government bonds can be sold to the public only at progressively higher interest rates. Thus, government deficit spending under a gold standard is severely limited. The abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists to use the banking system as a means to an unlimited expansion of credit. They have created paper reserves in the form of government bonds which-through a complex series of steps-the banks accept in place of tangible assets and treat as if they were an actual deposit, i.e., as the equivalent of what was formerly a deposit of gold. The holder of a government bond or of a bank deposit created by paper reserves believes that he has a valid claim on a real asset. But the fact is that there are now more claims outstanding than real assets. The law of supply and demand is not to be conned. As the supply of money (of claims) increases relative to the supply of tangible assets in the economy, prices must eventually rise. Thus the earnings saved by the productive members of the society lose value in terms of goods. When the economy’s books are finally balanced, one finds that this loss in value represents the goods purchased by the government for welfare or other purposes with the money proceeds of the government bonds financed by bank credit expansion.

In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. If there were, the government would have to make its holding illegal, as was done in the case of gold. If everyone decided, for example, to convert all his bank deposits to silver or copper or any other good, and thereafter declined to accept checks as payment for goods, bank deposits would lose their purchasing power and government-created bank credit would be worthless as a claim on goods. The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.

This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists’ tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists’ antagonism toward the gold standard.

Alan Greenspan The Objectivist - 1966

Alan Greenspan 1966

41 Years Later –> ……
Alan Greenspan on FOX News October 2007

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By PrincipalMargie

October 30, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

Dear State Retiree II:

Fortunately I caught your reply. Yes, I’m in the public school system and lucky enough (sort of) to be vested in TRS. But that doesn’t mean I don’t care about the problems you all have been having with ERS. The whole mess is so complex that I really think a lot of us who are facing retirement could use some help.

That is why I mentioned some kind of organized preparation. I mean goodness, we here in our profession take very seriously the business of teaching children how to learn and think. I believe that young Britney Spears was mentioned earlier. Didn’t a judge recently order her and her young husband to attend parenting classes? I’m just saying that maybe this is the time to offer such help to new retirees. It might even be that such a thing should be required, of state employees at least. Good luck with your battles.

By Call 911

October 30, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

And just what, pray tell, is a comodicum, moron?

By jbmlaw

October 30, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this

Dear Frank (or PoFo) @ 3:56, funniest post of the week, my compliments. 5:00 is a close second.

Dear Glenn @ 5:17, actually that was courtesy of our friend TFTT, but I am always willing to take credit for the work of others.

By Frank

October 30, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this

A comodicum is a small bidet.

By the way, Call911, Your wife called, she wants her PMS back.

Thank you, jbm, I’m speechless.

By Dennis

October 30, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

Interesting, isn’t it; those who call for reforms and less payouts to retirees are the ones who don’t have to worry.

But payback time comes when their kids get caught in the same fix.

You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.

By jbmlaw

October 30, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this

Dear Howardk of the Wanniski camp @ 5:32, some of us anti-statists prefer floating rates - punishes the profligate immediately. That is why so much of the world uses dollars. Or used to.

By Frank

October 30, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

Brett Favre is fun to watch. Next week Pats/Colts shootout will be fun too. I love Manning, but I dont believe in him yet, I think it’s the Pats.

By Glenn

October 30, 2007 6:09 PM | Link to this

jbm, well in that case, I take it back. TFTT, thanks for the link. Any particular Phillips pc.?

HowardK,

You have Alan “Punxsutawney Phil” Greenspan write: “Gold, having…significant advantages over all other media of exchange [has]…since the beginning of World War I…been virtually the sole international standard of exchange.” Leaving aside the point that he might have substituted an alternative monosyllable, oil, for the word “gold”, why did the Great Groundhog also later say that “prior to World War I, the banking system in the United States (and most of the world) was based on gold”?

Moreover, why does your fillibuster remind me of a textbook from the macroecon course I dropped out of, under a cloud of course, 30 years ago?

By State Retiree II

October 30, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

PrincipalMargie — I deeply appreciate everything that every public school teacher ever did for me in the Atlanta Public School System. I also appreciate what the teachers and administrators have done and do for my children in the Gwinnett County School System. That being said, I gave 34+ years of my life to the citizens of the State of Georgia. I have only asked for what is rightfully mine after being told for decades what I could expect having worked for the state all those years. No more than what I feel a teacher in the public school system would want for theirself and their family members who were raised on a state salary. 3% COLA is not too much to ask in this day and age…we are not getting any younger…or at least, I’m not. When I worked for the state I investigated everything from coke box burglary to multiple homicides from Rabun Gap to Tybee Light. I used to think (when I was young) that if I lived through my career that I would have a nice retirement one day because of everything I was told along the way by my supervisors and the politicians. I think others bought into this also because I worked for 3+ decades with some very dedicated law enforcement officers, both black and white, male and female. Now, in this day and age when gas is $3 a gallon, taking a family out to eat is $100 minimum in most restaurants (for a family of five), teenagers wanting used cars that cost ten times what new cars cost when I was their age, it is difficult to make ends meet. Was I expecting more…no. I was only expecting what I had seen retirees get for the last 25+ years and that is a 3% COLA. What — is the price not going up for everyone or is it just me and my family that is paying more. I’d be willing to bet that there are lots of teachers whom if you told them they were not getting the 3% COLA they were trying to fit into their fixed income budget that they were not getting it, they would be as dumbfounded as I am on how the great, great ERS Retirement Fund could be underfunded. All I have every been told before this year is that things are great! The fund couldn’t be better! How discouraging it is that the ERS Board (six of seven people on the board are appointed by the governor) think so little of state retirees. What in the world have the people running ERS been doing?
Don’t look for any help from the TRS folks if they are anything like the ERS folks for your upcoming retirement. You folks are the lucky ones due to having the foresight to have unions and attorneys to represent you. Good luck when you feel you can retire and thanks for helping even one child learn how to read and write and make things better for his or her generation.

By State Retiree II

October 31, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

Well — everyone has moved on.” I just wanted to drop a note to Mr. Wooten this a.m. and let you know that I appreciate your op piece on this topic. At some point, somebody important is going to see the ERS for what they are…do nothings. My warning to future retirees that fall under the ERS is to be very careful when talking with them because they are not working for you and your benefit. ERS Member Services —- what a joke! In fact, I know for certain that they could care less about state employees that have given a lifetime of service to the citizens of this state. Mr. Wooten…I would have loved to have had the opportunity to make my own decisions about my retirement fund as you have pointed out in your article. Current state employees had better take matters into their own hands instead of letting the do nothings that run their retirement board underfund it to the point they start losing COLAs…forever. If you have years to go you better start looking out for youself and your family because ERS is not going to do anything positive for you. Mr. Wooten…I’m not sure if it is corruption as you have stated regarding the state retirement system, or just plain old stupidity along with you scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours. I know this, I never questioned the state when I was working there for 3+ decades, but now that I am retired I see nothing positive being done for the taxpayers or state retirees. Maybe you will write another piece when the next legislative session comes in this January and there are senators and representatives that want to “play” with the retirement fund (can you say SB80?). Invest retirement funds but not allow those in the fund to see where the funds are placed….complete idiocy. I’d bet that would be where the corruption would enter the picture. I hope the feds are watching.

By Joe

November 1, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

As a retired state employee, I wanted to note that if you smoke, there is an additional surcharge on the health insurance the state offers. Will the ERS pay for that?

A watchdog group has reveiwed the data and the presentation by Neyh and found that the real reason for the shortage is because, since 2000, the state has reduced their monetary contributions below what would keep it soluble. Another Sonny do.

He may be VP material since he has perfected the Bush capability of half truths (I may have over stated the %), the dumb look on his face, and the look of indignation when confronted with the truth or at least another view.