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DEL.ICIO.USHouse speaker takes tax case to professionals
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Dillard, Ga. — What better audience to test a revolutionary proposal on taxation than a gathering of the Georgia Chapter of the National Association of Tax Professionals?
Turns out, however, that the tax preparers, lawyers, accountants and agents who are fattening themselves up for the long tax season to come at the Dillard House, one of Georgia’s finest dining establishments, are almost as much in the dark as the rest of Georgia about the proposal being put forth by House Speaker Glenn Richardson.
That proposal, which not surprisingly has drawn shoot-the-babies and plow-the-fields-in-salt opposition from local governments and school boards, would eliminate the property tax and, instead, expand the 4 percent statewide sales tax to services. It would end, too, most all of the 127 existing sales tax exemptions, including the one for groceries. Taxpayers earning up to $30,000 would get a refund for the tax on groceries and prescriptions.
After listening to Richardson’s explanation, the president of the Georgia chapter, David Fussell of Rome, thought the speaker had done “a great job of presenting it” but was not completely sold and had real reservations that Georgians will embrace it. “From a tax professional’s standpoint, I haven’t seen enough of the [proposal] to fully grasp it. If we become tax collectors for the Revenue Department, that becomes an issue.”
Fussell notes, as did the House speaker earlier, that local governments are manning the barricades. “I live in a small town, and I know a lot of city officials. Small towns being what they are, I don’t think they are going to be willing to give up control to the state.” Richardson has heard their mounting opposition and, in a conversation beforehand, unloads. “The reason why counties and cities and school districts are so vehemently opposed is because they have been able to grow their spending at a greater rate than peoples’ earnings,” Richardson said. “I can’t believe the gall of them using taxpayers’ money to oppose the right of citizens to change their method of taxation.”
Between 1996 and 2006, inflation in Georgia rose 28 percent, he said, while per capita state spending rose 26, spending by counties rose 40 percent, by cities rose 79 percent and by school boards, a whopping 98 percent. Local officials say that’s because of infrastructure spending for growth.
Richardson’s proposal, which he acknowledges is not yet perfected — it’s 85 to 90 percent there, he said — would eliminate all property taxes, including on homes, businesses and vehicles. Eliminating them would deprive local governments and school boards of between $8.2 billion and $8.5 billion per year, an offset that would come from the expanded sales tax. Existing “exemptions” amount to $10 billion per year, with groceries accounting for $1 billion, Richardson said.
All Georgians “ought to have some tax burden,” he said. “We’re rapidly becoming a nation that has more people who are not paying taxes than are paying taxes. That is a dangerous place for this nation to be. If we don’t stop it now we are soon going to kill the U.S. economy.”
The locals would not be deprived of revenues in the sums they’re now collecting. Richardson proposes a formula that would give each local government and school board the same share of the $8-plus billion they now collect. Another formula, now being drafted, would measure growth in the tax digest and give them the higher of inflation or actual property values. In addition, local governments could continue to seek voter approval for a 1 percent local sales tax, a portion of which could be spent on operations.
State spending has to be capped and, as Richardson proposes it, so too would local. He thinks if it’s capped just at the state level, politicians would shift taxes.
His problem with the property tax — by the way, check your mail, they’re coming due — is that 1.5 million homeowners bear half the burden of providing local services for 9.4 million Georgians.
As with the tax professionals, I’m not yet sold on Richardson’s GREAT plan, which stands for “Georgia’s repeal of every ad-valorem tax” and, frankly, may never be — though I share the concern that the nation is building a “gimmee”-class of citizens, now approaching half, who no longer care what government costs because somebody else is paying.
Permalink | Comments (206) | Post your comment | Categories: Column
Comments
By TW
September 29, 2007 8:07 AM | Link to this
Crying about taxes during a time of war is tantamount to treason…haven’t those seeking this change made enough off the middle class over the past seven years??? Are you really going to go after our schools now??? What is an ‘American’ anyway? Bin Laden did far less damage to this country than has the Republican party…
By Bobby
September 29, 2007 8:23 AM | Link to this
So what you are saying TW is that as long as we are at war, no other topics involving citizens of the U.S. should be discussed. If any proposals are considered before the end of the war, we are committing treason? I hope you are not considering running for any elected position soon.
By Mid-South Philosopher
September 29, 2007 8:37 AM | Link to this
Good morning, Jim,
As I understand it,under Richardson’s scheme, local property taxes on private homes, businesses, and vehicles would be eliminated. In place of this, the state would levy increases in sales tax and remove the exemptions that are now on food and a few other items. Likely, sales tax would also be added to such businesses as barber and beauty shops that currently do not collect sales taxes for their services.
Across the state, county commission members, city council members, and school board members are having a fit. While they would almost certainly have more tax monies at their disposal under this scheme, they are suffering convulsions from the loss of power and control that they would have over levying local taxes. It is a typical malady suffered by politicians, too many of which are life-long office holders.
The tax preparation bureaucracy has a more legitimate concern. These folks make their living advising property owners and businesses as to how to navigate the myriad collection of state and federal tax laws (most of which seem to have been written in cuneiform by drunken scribes) and how to avoid paying as much tax as legally possible. Anything that will simplify the tax codes (state or federal) will lessen the tax preparation bureaucracy’s esoteric hold over the citizenry in general.
Now, I am not saying that I endorse Richardson’s Great Plan at this point. He has not really impressed me all that much as Speaker. However, I am willing to view it with an open mind. I am particularly interested in the fact that under this scheme more users of government services pay. The preacher, the retired teacher, the factory worker (do we really have many of those left in the United States?), the shop-keeper…all pay. The prostitute, the methamphetamine manufacturer, and the dregs on the dole…all contribute. I like that.
Richardson’s plan may not be the way to go, but the current trend of tax and spend government, embraced by only one kind of politician (the one in office) regardless of political party, needs to be changed
By TW
September 29, 2007 8:43 AM | Link to this
Bobby - I’m saying that the people in power in this country couldn’t care less about ‘citizens of the U.S.’ I’m saying that the last seven years has been nothing but the sickest get rich scheme in the history of this country. I’m saying that anybody who makes less than $200k a year and calls themselves a Republican is a fool. Pull your head out, Bobby…
By DemDems4Ever
September 29, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this
TW@8:07,
Blaming the Republicans alone is your mistake. The R’s and D’s are totally together in Washington, with very little difference in their actions in Congress.
The majority receives all the ink and a bigger share but the minority party participates in all of the scams and money making.
Nothing will change as long as we have career politicians who only look out for themselves and their accomplices in Congress.
The banks, credit card companies and the lawyers are running all over the American public. Go sit in Federal bankruptcy court for one day (actually only half a day - they only work in the morning) and watch the vultures carve up the citizenry. Totally disgusting.
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this
“So what you are saying TW is that as long as we are at war, no other topics involving citizens of the U.S. should be discussed.”
That is correct, Bobby. You are a n00b to this blog, but very observant. In any event, there is nothing going on on this planet other than “Bush’s War.” Then of course, you have your ubiquitous liberal socialist asshats like TW at 8:43 who bi-tch about how much money someone else makes and wants some of it like a lazyassed thief.
Moving forward…
$5,000 for every kid! Yay Hillary! Just what we incompetent stupid Americans need - five big ones for each kid, legitimate or not, for future college and/or a home. Isn’t that special?
We need more liberal socialized brilliance like that from The Hill! Hey Shrill: what exactly is your CUT OFF point on family income for that “free” money? You said EVERY kid, Shrillary. Or Shrill, are you saying that millionaire’s kids will get a part of MY PAYCHECK too? Yeah Shrill, MY MONEY will be paying for that sheer brilliance of liberalism. Speak up, Shrill, we can’t hear you. Oh my bad, you said, Shrill, that it takes a village to raise a child. Well, maybe for you incompetent village idiot liberals.
Shrill, a lot of parents in this nation can afford to take care of their own kids WITHOUT your neo-communism. (Gee, you think anyone like me would get to ask The Shrill questions like that in a Town Hall meeting? Yeah, like Al Gore would stop flying jets around the globe for his punk junkass science).
By TW
September 29, 2007 9:10 AM | Link to this
DemDems4Ever - I can disagree with nothing you’ve said. Turning a blind eye to the war, I am disgusted with the Washington as a whole. John Edwards appreciates your support.
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this
Now we’re talking. The anti-war liberal candyassed can go wet their panties. A defense missile test was very successful yesterday. We’ll need it in a decade or two - against China. By that time, our kids will be too ignorant and stupid to compete with the Chinese, thanks to liberals running our gubment schools and teaching them more important second grade topics such as “The Prince Who Falls In Love With Another Prince” and that a correct answer in math are not as important as learning to get in a group consensus to discuss the answer, whether it is right or wrong. After all, it takes a village. Right Shrill?
By Danviskov
September 29, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this
Comrades This is an immoral attempt to stifle the return of stolen money to their rightful owners. Tax cuts pose a danger to the people’s cause. Bourgeois cliques quench the people’s wrath by confiscating small portions of money (50%) from the rich and returning it to the People who are the money’s rightful owners.
By TW
September 29, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this
Rotten Tomato - Why so angry this morning? Cleaning crew not do a good enough job on your yacht? Here’s an idea - how about we just skip all this ‘flat tax’ nonsense and give free gas fill-ups for yachts? There, problem solved. Now, about this $15 billion dollar a month war…won’t mention the life lost (as we all know you couldn’t care less about that part)…
By CC
September 29, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this
Good column, Jim. A couple of questions. First, when the state’s 4% sales tax is expanded to services, won’t the local sales taxes be expanded to services as well? If so, the total sales tax rate applied to currently untaxed services will be 6-8% depending on where you live, not just 4%. Second, won’t not having a property tax mean that people won’t get to deduct it from federal income taxes, resulting in a federal tax increase?
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 9:32 AM | Link to this
Awe. I upset the blog lib. What are you bi-thin’ about now, TW? Who the hell said anything about a “flat tax?” You neo-communist socialist liberals don’t even think the CURRENT tax plan where the top 50% (~$30k-$330k) pay 96.7% of all federal income tax revenue take in, the top 25% (~$60k) pay 85%, the top 10% (~$100k) pay 68%, the top 5% (~$125k) pay 57%, and the top 1% (~$330k) pay 37%.
Now you, as a socialist asshat liberal, tell ME how that^^ is not a fair enough distribution. Go ahead, killer.
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this
“By confiscating small portions of money (50%) from the rich and returning it to the People who are the money’s rightful owners.”
That’s right, folks. For you small business owners and successful 70-hour workweek assbusting corporates out there, Komrade Klintons like this asshat will punish you for actually getting off your a-ss and following the American dream.
Remember, it’s not your money, it’s the PEOPLE’S money. Pathetic un-American POS.
By @@
September 29, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this
Well Jim, I say…TAX THE GROCERIES and put everybody on a strict diet or I’ll be forced to buy more chairs to go around my dining table.
At Dillards the dining is done around a big table with people you don’t know. I should have the option to eat there or not.
By catlady
September 29, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this
the myriad collection of state and federal tax laws (most of which seem to have been written in cuneiform by drunken scribes)
On target observation, mid-south.
The prostitute, the methamphetamine manufacturer, and the dregs on the dole…all contribute. I like that.
However, that will drive more services and activities under the table and off the books(thereby, more money off income tax). Do we really want that? More people being under the table like some illegal aliens are paid? Thus heaping more burden on the rest of us?
Further, since everyone living on solid ground in Georgia pays property tax (other than tax exempt entities such as churches, I guess), all those you listed, Mid-south, already are paying taxes.
Others have noted that these increased service taxes grossly effect the poor and middle class, who spend most of their money each month, as opposed to those who have some left over each month to go into savings. IMHO, that is an ethical problem. I don’t want welfare payments to go up so I can have property tax relief, thus raising the other taxes to pay for the increased welfare benefits.
Finally, as CC noted, NO ONE wants to give up their federal income tax help by way of the property tax credit. Everyone wants the benefit of no property tax without the other sacrifices it would entail.
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this
Republicans don’t have to do anything. All we need to do is watch the Democrats, overwhelmingly controlled by the kook left like Hypocrite Gazillionaire Edwards and the Daily Koolaid Klan, run their stupid mouths. Shrill wants five grand for every rug rat, and now The Breck Boy says “We cannot build enough prisons to solve this problem. And the idea that we can keep incarcerating and keep incarcerating — pretty soon we’re not going to have a young African-American male population in America. They’re all going to be in prison or dead. One of the two.” Gee, he doesn’t have much faith in his fellow Americans, does he? Maybe he and Al and Jesse need to get together and discuss the matter. Like, I’m so sure if a Republican had said those same words, the media wouldn’t have called said Republican a racist bigot. Yeah, that’s it.
By TW
September 29, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this
Rotten Tomato - again, why so angry this morning? Being that you are so smart and know all this stuff, why so angry? Seems like your massive intellectual capacity would deliver you to a place where at least the name calling would fall from your repertoire.
Anyhow - flat tax - fair tax - flat tas - fair tax…you guys have worked so hard at presenting it this way I suppose I must apologize for my slip. But as far as why it was mentioned - I suggest you read the column before you post…your therapist did mention that part??? Have a nice day!
By catlady
September 29, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this
Remember, the federal government does not really care what Georgians are paying in sales tax. There will be no relief from them—no charge-off on your income tax. Property owners, who now benefit from federal tax laws on property, will no longer have that benefit. Instead of paying $5,000 per year in property tax and getting some credit for it, you will pay $5,000 in sales tax and get no credit. Seems like a no brainer to me…..
I am presuming they would take the propery tax exemption off of EVERYBODY who gets favorable treatment now? elderly, farms, timber, churches, schools/government offices, cemataries, etc? It be a heavy barge we be pulling, suh.
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this
Oh goodie. Hollywood kooks are going to make a movie about Jimmuh Cartuh. One of Jimmuh’s more brilliant, non-senile comments as of late:
“I worship Christ who was the prince of peace, not pre-emptive war.”
Hmmm. I wonder what Christ would do if we just all sit back and die like 3,000 did on 9/11? That wasn’t even the starter plate for what evil wants to run this world with.
Anyway, you think that movie will show two mile long, six hour gas lines? Or how a failed hostage rescue killed 5 US Air Force men and three Marines? You think that movie will show how he abandoned 52 Americans for 444 days like a coward until Reagan was elected in the biggest smackdown in US history? You think that movie will show the long 11% unemployment lines? Or the 19% interest rates?
Ah yes, the good old days of one of America’s “bestest” presidents: Jimmuh Cartuh.
Laughably pathetic.
By AmVet
September 29, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this
Good morning all.
As the owner of a small business I am already saddled with collecting and paying these sales taxes on goods to the Ga. Dept. of Revenue. Now I would get to calculate it and send them the money on services too? YIPPEE!
If the state really wants more money, I have an alternative idea.
To make up for these supposed “tax shortfalls”, (and I realize “living within their means” is not an option for our state politicians) abolish the tax exempt status and end the gigantic church welfare in this state.
To the extent that they contribute to charities, etc… fine, that portion could remain tax exempt. But as for the pastor’s Benz and the elder’s Gulfstream jets, etc (see below), make ‘em pay, just like anyone and everyone else.
There are literally billions of dollars in the balance that the rest of us have to make up for on these, what I consider, special interest group subsidies.
When it was first decided that churches and other religious centers would be tax exempt, they had modest buildings and conservative budgets/expenditures.
Today we see churches with elaborate facilities and other assets. It is not uncommon for churches to provide ministers with lavish homes in elite areas of a community and luxury automobiles. There are parsonages with values over one million dollars and church provided automobiles such as Rolls Royce, Jaguar, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Lexus, and others; even a Gulfstream Jet with an estimated value of $5.375 million and a Gates Learjet with an estimated value of $985,000.
The divorce between Church and State ought to be absolute. It ought to be so absolute that no Church property anywhere, in any state or in the nation, should be exempt for equal taxation; for if you exempt the property of any church organization to that extent you impose a tax upon the whole community.
— James A Garfield, 20th U.S. President (1881)
Just as infamous as it is with us – where no church property is taxed and so the infidel and the atheist and the man without religion are taxed to make up the deficit in the public income thus caused.
— Mark Twain
I would call your attention to the importance of correcting an evil that, if permitted to continue, will probably lead to great trouble in our land before the close of the Nineteenth century. It is the acquisition of vast amounts of untaxed church property…. In a growing country, where real estate enhances so rapidly with time as in the United States, there is scarcely a limit to the wealth that may be acquired by corporations, religious or otherwise, if allowed to retain real estate without taxation. The contemplation of so vast a property as here alluded to, without taxation, may lead to sequestration, and through blood. I would suggest the taxation of all property equally, whether church or corporation.
— Ulysses S. Grant, 18th U.S. President (1875)
The government has leverage on religious groups because of the tax-exemption privilege. Church leaders, eager for the church to be free to be the church, should ask for the removal of this privilege. If there were no tax privilege for religious groups, hucksters and people who are using religion as a cover for political movements would be discouraged.
—William Stringfellow, lawyer and lay theologian (1978)
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this
TW, I’ll keep it simple for a simpleton lib: in my 9:32, take each percentile of income tax payers and you tell me how much each group SHOULD pay in income taxes. It’s not that complicated, lib, but like a good little lib who’s ideology is based upon emotion and not true thought, factual reason, or integrity, you probably can’t. It’s just all those “evil rich” that we need to punish for simpleton libs like you.
For the record, TW, I’m actually very happy. I just despise Americans who want to destroy the American Dream. Nothing personal.
By jbmlaw
September 29, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this
Good morning all. Instead of posting something, I think I’ll simply send a donation to MidSouth’s campaign. Great argument, better than I could have written.
By @@
September 29, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this
AmVet @ 9:58:
Mine is a very small church. There are two small churches (one of them being mine) and another moderately sized church in my county who offer their facilities for the State’s Child-Tech program (daycare for children of teenage mothers still in school).
My church and the two others in my county are saving all residents in Georgia the money it would take to house, maintain and operate facilities for this purpose. What money the program is allowed goes directly to the needs of the children and their mothers. Do you wanna pay the difference in cost if churches didn’t offer their facilities.
The moderately sized church also offers their facilities for the HeadStart program.
All free of charge to YOU AmVet but at a substantial financial expense to our church members.
You and your disdain for all things within the faith-based community reveal you to be even more selfish than you claim conservatives are.
Obviously you would celebrate those kids becoming wards of the State in every aspect of their young lives.
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
Speaking of Democrat[ic] liberal socialists and taxes, let’s give it up for US Rep. John Dingell (short for Dingellberry I presume). That dinosaur wants to raise our gas taxes by $.50 a gallon. That’ll teach those SUV ‘burban soccermoms!
Oh, but it gets even better. A tax on carbon at $50 a ton, released from burning coal, petroleum or natural gas. Wow! I can’t wait for my power and gas bill to go up! Brilliant!
Another one: the phaseout of the interest tax deduction on home mortgages for homes over 3,000 square feet. Oh my! Someone wants to live the American dream and build their dream home and they need to be punished! (Pssst: don’t tell the Breck Boy).
This, people, is the insanity of what the modern left represents. They truly are against America and the American dream.
By Ray
September 29, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
@@: only a Republican like YOU would refer to the act of giving as a ‘substantial financial expense’. pat yourself on the back.
By Anthony
September 29, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this
I love people that want to benefit from the american dream but want to do everything in their power to not contribute to the government that provides a atmosphere for that dream to rise.Now thats unamerican. The right wing sheep follow rich pundits who deep down think they are fools. They arent talking about you paying less taxes with your 50 to 100k a year they are talking about themselves but to get their party and their agenda thru they had to make the simpletons feel like they are part of it. As far as the crap about the rich pay all the taxes,it was Warren Buffet who said my secretary pays much more taxes proportionately than I do.
By AmVet
September 29, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this
The red herring at 10:21 does NOTHING to address the claim I made.
It in fact supports my assertion that the charitable portion should remain tax exempt.
So yes, if that is evidence, call me selfish. But I don’t counter arguments with personal attacks and and rhetoric in order to dodge the main point.
Christian love and compassionate conservatism as shared on our very own blog.
Thanks, but if this is representative, I’ll pass.
By getalife
September 29, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this
Dem Rep To Introduce House Resolution Condemning Rush Limbaugh On Monday
Bwa.
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this
Oh look, “Ray” is back. Hey Ray, you wanna finish what you started last weekend and explain to us all how Bush made Osama a rock star, or movie star? Please, as requested last weekend, include how your heroes in Washington led by the likes The Nanny Pelosi told us all ‘bout this time last year how they’d go after Osama and show Bush how it’s done?
Again “Ray,” please, do tell.
By getalife
September 29, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this
The needless genocide in Iraq should have been avoid and American should demand justice
The world is waiting for us to do the right thing.
By Dusty
September 29, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this
Amvet 9:58
So, you want to blame any tax problem on churches. I’ll bet you don’t even go to one.
Maybe I go to the wrong church because our pastor has an older model car and owns his home. The people who run the church office, the parish nurse, the financial secretary all work for nothing. That is the way they want it. Our denomination runs one of the largest immigration and adoption services in the South. Every local church has large budgeted funds for relief services. Women members make tons of quilts, school kits, sewing kits, and new baby packages..much of it for overseas emergencies and some for local needs.
Now tell me what you have done lately that makes you think churches are so overbearing? Don’t mention politics because my denomination does not tell members how to vote or discriminate. Christ’s love is preached and your own conscience is your guide. I invite you to attend and find out the TRUTH about churches of which you seem ignorant.
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this
Dem Rep To Introduce House Resolution Condemning Rush Limbaugh On Monday
HAHAHAHA!!! I guess since they can’t get a damn thing accomplished in Washington, the little liberal skirts have to go after a radio talk show host.
I read where Rush was referring to “phony soldiers” as those who fake being a soldier to speak out against a war. Leave it to the libs to sling the slop and lie about what someone said.
By getalife
September 29, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this
US Army Stops Arrest of Blackwater Killers By Iraqi Police
More war crimes.
The world is watching and waiting for us to do the right thing.
By Just an observation
September 29, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this
Ray and Amvet sure seem to show up at the same convenient times together.
By Dusty
September 29, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this
getalife 10:45
I am watching and waiting for you to say the right thing for America. It hasn’t happened yet.
By AmVet
September 29, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this
The red herring at 10:40 does NOTHING to address the claim I made.
It in fact supports my assertion that the charitable portion should remain tax exempt.
So yes, if that is evidence, call me a blamer. But I don’t counter arguments with personal attacks and and rhetoric in order to dodge the main point.
Christian love and compassionate conservatism as shared on our very own blog.
Thanks, but if this is representative, I’ll pass. And I’ll also decline that warm, non-judgmental invitation.
By getalife
September 29, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this
And now for some good news:
“Karzai offered Saturday to meet personally with the leader of the Taliban for peace talks and give the militants a position in government. Karzai said he was willing to meet with Taliban leader Mullah Omar and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, a former prime minister and factional warlord leader.”
I hope there is peace.
By LaQuinta maid
September 29, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this
Here are the closing comment on a History Channel episode looking into what would happen if a mega tsunami hit the US: “you could survive it, you would just have to know what to do and not wait around for someone to tell you what to do.”
Surely they didn’t mean those government-owned Katrina people who depended on the government for generations and couldn’t make a decision on their own if their lives depended on it.
By AmVet
September 29, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this
It is strange that the likes of that post at 10:53 happens a lot here and at Luckovich’s.
I guess I should feel honored or at least humbled that the power of my words are such that the more “observant” feel that they couldn’t possibly be from one person.
But usually I am just slightly embarrassed for them. But the comedic factor is, I suppose, worth something.
But hey, keep on playing, Mr. Anonymous; maybe you’ll win the booby prize!
By getalife
September 29, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this
Dusty,
I am waiting on you to attack Rush for hating the troops.
Come on fraud.
By getalife
September 29, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this
BTW, dusty,
w attacked him so it okay. He spewed about Move on so he had to bash him.
Your turn, be a real Patriotic American not a fake one.
By DemDems4Ever
September 29, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this
@@ and Dusty,
People such as Amvet, Ray, Anthony and getalife are users not contributors. If they followed the Constitution there would be no “tax discussion”.
The Constitution seeks a limited federal government not the huge bureaucracy of today, involved in far more of our lives than is necessary. But to limit government, and thus the need for a federal income tax, would destroy their communal philosophy.
Those individuals want the successful to support them and their socialist friends who blog all day and search the Internet for any negative article they can cite about conservatives.
How many of those who attack @@ and Dusty have ever gone on a mission trip to aid those in need, traveled to Thailand after the tsunami, or even contributed a little of their money to help those in need?
Not likely any of the secular humanists do anything but complain about the individuals and churches that step up and actually work for those in need.
By Just Nasty and Mean
September 29, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this
GetaLife, The world is sitting back watching America lead on the war on terror. If you want to talk about war crimes, let’s hear about the daily beheadings, car bombs, suicide bombers, women and children oppressors, and for goodness sakes—let’s hear your position on 3,000 deaths on 9/11. Because you—obviously—think all these are America’s fault. Get your head out of your butt and recognize these fanatics WANT TO KILL YOU AND YOUR FAMILY if you don’t comply to their religious beliefs and laws. Don’t believe me, read their kuran. GOT IT?
By getalife
September 29, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this
Conservative magazine slams Petraeus, calling him a political toady
Still waiting dusty.
nasty,
You are coward, change your diaper and back under your bed.
Scared to death.
Geez.
By Dusty
September 29, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this
getalife,11:17
Rush attacked PHONEY posters who falsely claimed time in the service. Do YOU know the difference? Do you like imposters? You seem to.
If I am not a patriotic American I hate to think what you are.
By What Rush Said
September 29, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this
As if you expected the trash that represents the left to be honest or something? They are all pathological possessed LIARS.
“The morning update on Wednesday dealt with a soldier, a fake, phony soldier by the name of Jesse MacBeth who never served in Iraq; he was never an Army Ranger. He was drummed out of the military in 44 days. He had his day in court; he never got the Purple Heart as he claimed, and he described all these war atrocities. He became a hero to the anti-war left. They love phony soldiers, and they prop ‘em up. When it is demonstrated that they have been lying about things, then they just forget about it. There’s no retraction; there’s no apology; there’s no, “Uh-oh, sorry.” After doing that morning update on Wednesday, I got a phone call yesterday from somebody, we were talking about the troops, and this gentleman said something which you’ll hear here in just a second, prompting me to reply “yeah, the phony soldiers.”
“That comment, “phony soldiers” was posted yesterday afternoon on the famous Media Matters website, which is where all leftists go to find out what I say. I have a website, and I have a radio program that reaches far more people than Media Matters could ever hope to, but the critics of this program never listen to this program. They never go to my website. All they do is read Media Matters and they get the lies and the out-of-context reports. They assume it’s all true because they want it to be true, and then they start their campaigns. This has led to me being denounced on the floor of the House.”
By getalife
September 29, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
Stop spewing patriotic crap dusty.
You just proved my point, you are a fake, a fraud, the only thing you support is your failed party.
Loser.
By macpuffdaddy
September 29, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this
getalife,11:17 If I am not a patriotic American I hate to think what you are.
Dusty, try a marxist from hell who would be willing to let fascist Sharia law run this nation, so long as the Jews and Christians don’t. That wasted thing is the ultimate in cowardice.
By getalife
September 29, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this
BREAKING NEWS: Giuliani fundraiser was mystery initiative backer
Hahaha, Rudy is a cheating loser and should withdraw from the race.
Losers.
By getalife
September 29, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this
Boehner: Using Children For Political Messaging Is ‘Beyond The Pale,’ Unless I Do It
I bet he cries on the floor again.
Whining losers.
Bwa.
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this
BREAKING NEWS: Giuliani fundraiser was mystery initiative backer
That^^, from an asshat who supports a Chinese criminal fugitive Klinton backer. Haha.
Anywho, from PMSNBC and some bedwetting “tree hugger” BS canyassed liberal website:
A Chevrolet Suburban is no more protective of its occupants than a much lighter 1999 Accord.
Tell ya what, PMS liberal asshats. I’ll drive my Tahoe in a quartering head on into your Accord like a drunk Mexican going north in a southbound lane and we’ll compare the occupant injuries. Any of you scared girlie boys up for that challenge?
By RW (the oravaginal)
September 29, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this
I have an uncle what lives in taxes, dollars taxes, that’s where he lives!(tm)
Anybody get a load of Elizabeth Taylor yesterday howling and doing her best Jerry Lewis? What a gal! Her work with AIDS makes her a mother theresa, her eyebrow pencil makes her a sex symbol. If mother theresa had doubts about why she volunteered, Elizabeth has none, and she deserves our worship and praise.
The camera loved liz taylor. Some think she projected the most ideal icon of feminine beauty. Marilyn Monroe projected pure sex, where you’d want to grab her by the hair, talk dirty, and really let her have it, and then when you’re done, spring up suddenly from the bed and run to your car, and speed away laughing.
Liz taylor’s elegance made you want to go slow, real slow… fingertips, and soft breath, you’d want to buy a piece of her soul…
Mickey Rooney did both of those gals, can you believe it? Mickey Rooney did more actresses than Frank Sinatra or Jerry Lewis. Few people know what a philanderer Mickey was.
Anyway, all weekend long, entertaiment tonite will feature Liz Taylor howling about marriage. You’ve got to see this. it’s the end of an era of what we once considered to be feminine beauty and sex appeal. Now it’s brittany getting out of a limo….is that road kill or are you just happy to see me?
By @@
September 29, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this
Atheists want government to tax church members once as an individual, and then tax us again as a collective body. We’ve gotta pay the church’s bills ‘ya know.
Sure does limit the amount of money available to fund worthwhile programs that benefit lower-income families directly, while easing their tax burden as well.
If you diminish the ability of church members, through double taxation, then you diminish the amount that church members can pay to provide funding for worthwhile causes. It’s the churches way of contributing to the collective society but obviously we should be punished for our efforts and in turn so should those who benefit through our efforts.
If AmVet thinks that the government can better provide then I know which deity he worships. It’s government….sorry, don’t have much faith in them. I have more faith in the compassion and ambition of the individual.
Churches help government and government helps churches through tax exemptions. TOGETHER we help those in need.
Works for me.
Ray @ 10:31:
In order the assist the young mothers we have to pay the additional cost of utilities, insurance and maintainance. That’s the substantial expense. The program and it’s beneficiaries aren’t. They (the recipients) assist us in every way possible to conserve.
It’s a joint effort that eventually benefits the kids — everybody’s goal.
I wouldn’t expect you to understand because you obviously know nothing about a joint effort in sacrifices.
By getalife
September 29, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this
“NetBank Inc., an online bank with $2.5 billion in assets, was shut down by the government on Friday because of an excessive level of mortgage defaults.”
Damn shame, that was a great investment that peaked at $240 then split.
By RW (the oravaginal)
September 29, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this
I got an uncle what lives in taxes, dollars taxes, that’s where my uncle lives!(tm)
There’s a new poll out about happiness. It seems women are falling apart, and from what I can tell, there is a crisis of panic disorder, manic depression, and pms.
Women feel cheated. They even suspect their own families of conspiring against them. They jealously guard whatever it is that they think makes them unique, and it’s like their identity is tied up in appearances and lifestyle.
American women are a mess. The only common denominator is flouridation and the flood of hormones in the food we eat.
Even bad teeth would be better than the female sociopaths that I run into in social circles.
Women. Stay far far away from me.
By getalife
September 29, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this
“With the U.S. government fast approaching its current $8.965 trillion credit limit, the Senate on Thursday gave final congressional approval of an $850 billion increase in U.S. borrowing authority.”
This is the fifth time w has raised the ceiling.
Our government is on track for a NetBank outcome.
Your kids will owe a million by the time w is gone.
Sure go ahead, vote gop. Make it a couple of million debt for your kids and their kids.
Geez.
By AmVet
September 29, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this
Wake up Republicans!
Is it ANY wonder the GOP got slaughtered last November?
And guess what? The blood letting is almost assuredly going to happen again in the next election.
The number of Americans who think the GOP is better qualified to run the nation continue to irrefutably dwindle and the far right wing extremists that over the past few decades have come to practically define your “base” are doing you NO favors.
Those neo-cons that do remain are now more than ever so utterly filled with impotent rage as evidenced by these desperate and constant barrages of screaming, irrational, juvenile and/or vitriol-laced hatred for anything and anybody they don’t understand or agree with that they lack any significant credibility.
So unless and until you marginalize the worst in your ranks, and allow the moderates and true conservatives to represent you, you’re staring straight into the face of another forty years on the outside looking in.
OK, partisans, have fun with your little hate-fest here ALL day long!
I’m off to go see the Tech-Clemson game and enjoy a beautiful autumn day!
By @@
September 29, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this
Ovaginal @ 11:44:
I’m sure there are blogsites where liberals’ sex fantasies are open for sharing.
I think you’re lost in cyberspace.
About the big SUVs…Yesterday I was driving into the city and found myself behind a brand new Mountaineer with a license plate that said “DISINGU”. The driver was African American. I couldn’t understand why and who he was “DISING”.
Certainly not me because I support his freedom to drive whatever he wants. I drive a compact. Was he “DISING” me because I do? Was he “DISING” me because I’m white? Was he “DISING” African Americans who couldn’t afford to drive what he was driving?…or was he just “DISING” society in general?
Did he vote Republican or Democrat?
By RW (the oravaginal)
September 29, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this
I got an uncle what lives in taxes, dollars taxes, that’s where my uncle lives!(tm)
Translation of UN speech given by Amadinijad last week:
“I live only 8 minutes from the Iranian Republican Guard HQ! I live only 12 minutes from the Secret Torture Police HQ! I am strongly for internal security in my country….. whoops, my cellphone just went off…..let me answer real quick…..death to america, this is amadinijad, death to israel too, my time your dime….oh, hi dear, I’m speaking to all the infidels at the UN…would you like to berate any of them yourself….ha ha, good one….what? quart of milk and a loaf of bread, I’ll try…okay…love you too…death to america too…..death to israel, yes…..behead all infidels, bye bye…..”
By Law and Order for All
September 29, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this
Close all the public schools and send the lazy brats out to work in the fields. I know I dont want any field hands who can read and write, who knows what kind of strange ideas they might come up with! If you teach them to read and write, they might grow up to be stinking lawyers and journalists, the scum of the earth, then we will have to open up them camps again for orderly disposal.
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
Regarding the drool from the 12:03, what you are not hearing: more in domestic spending next year than the $933 billion proposed by the president.
“As a result, lawmakers have failed to pass any of the 12 spending bills needed to keep the government running when the new fiscal year begins on Oct. 1.”
Of course, for the stupid and ignorant that vote Dem, it’s all the GOP and Bush’s fault. Democrats talk about how they are the true fiscal conservatives and then tack on another $22 billion. Laughably pathetic for the ignorant that vote Dem, not that the GOP has acted like the GOP lately.
By jm
September 29, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this
rotten tomato@9:17 - I used to work on those type of systems. I would not get too enthusiasic over a “succesful test” without knowing the control variables of the test. While a “success” is good and means progress, it is still just a test.
By @@
September 29, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this
the more “observant” feel that they couldn’t possibly be from one person.
Well conservatives do recognize the one brain from which liberals operate sooooo…….
I’m off to go see the Tech-Clemson game and enjoy a beautiful autumn day!
Have a great time at the game AmVet. Hope your not going with a bunch that’ll make for uncomfortable seating.
But I don’t counter arguments with personal attacks and and rhetoric in order to dodge the main point.
By Law and Order for All
September 29, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this
Yeah jm, that radio transmitter on the target missile sure helped in hitting it with the interceptor missle. Ahm just sure the ABM treaty required Ivan to put such a transmitter in all his ICBMs and independently targeted re entry vehicles. Oh yeah, Re Entry, ok honey, Im ready again, here I come!
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this
Was he “DISING” African Americans who couldn’t afford to drive what he was driving?…or was he just “DISING” society in general?
@@, a lot of people can drive nice cars in Atlanta. A bartender can easily afford a $599 monthly lease payment on a Mercedes. However, not many of those flash-in-the-pan traffic light impressing wannabes like the one in your experience can afford $500k-$1M homes or $150k boats. Not that a Mercury Mountaineer is a luxury ride or anything. But I’m sure that dude is proud of it.
There is a Bentley owner that resides at an apartment complex near my office complex, and the driver is no country club white dude. Priorities, I suppose.
By Wootenduh
September 29, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this
Today we have not one but two new prime examples of the idiocy of government:
{{{{Carol Couch, the director of the Georgia Environmental Protection Division, ordered an immediate ban on most outdoor watering in the northern third of the state. It’s the most severe step laid out in the state’s drought response plans. But Couch said, “My calculation is it may be inadequate.”}}}}
And:
{{{{I’ve just learned that Rep. Mark Udall (D-CO) will be introducing a resolution in the House of Representatives on Monday condemning Rush Limbaugh for his “phony soldiers” remark.}}}}
Consider this- anyone with any pride in themselves, anyone with any honest work ethic, anyone who actually wanted to earn their paycheck would never become a common government flunky.
This is why our local, state and federal governments are so ate up with liberals.
Example one, imagine a private industry that would drain their reservoirs, full of the product they sell, “in anticipation of spring rains” that they had no proof were coming.
Then, to top it off, they gave away the product that they sell to breed sturgeon downstream, sturgeon that are supposed to be able to “evolve” (evolution, duh?) according to their environment or fall to the nature of “survival of the fittest.”
Well, guess what, the rains never came.
And now the idiot E.P.A. is floundering around like a sturgeon out of water.
To avert a couple of minor crisis, that being some minor flooding around Lanier or Allatoona and a few relocated sturgeon, the moron government has 1) destroyed the water recreation industry putting thousands out of business 2) destroyed the landscaping industry putting thousands out of business 3) is in the process of destroying all of the vegetation in the ATL Metro, vegetation that consumes much of the excess CO2 in the atmosphere and turning the beautiful landscape into a horrible eyesore 4) Could potentially run slam as-s out of water all together.
I cannot imagine a private, for profit, capitalistic venture making such monumentally stupid decisions, lest they not be in business for very long.
But no, we are stuck with the as-sholes that have done so much serious damage and devastation, leaving them free to make even more idiotic decisions at some later date.
Example #2, propagating a lie is the business of the Congress of the United States of America?
Really?
WE ARE SCREWED.
We have no representative government anymore.
By jm
September 29, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this
Unless spending is going to decrease, the revenue collected by the government will need to be about the same under any tax system. Before I get too enthusiastic about any tax reform, I want to know who is going to pay more and who is going to pay less. Eliminating property tax sounds good but how will the loss of that deduction affect my federal taxes. While there are ways to deduct sales taxes from federal taxes, they generally require more tracking of records on my part. So in the end, will my overall tax burden be more or less under Richardson’s proposal.
By RW (the oravaginal)
September 29, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this
There there, @@.(tm)
By Law and Order for All
September 29, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this
Yeah Wootenduh, most of the trees in metro atlanta are going to die, but is that such a bad thing? Lookie at the bright side, ahm gonna get a lot of free fire wood, enough to last for years, oak, cherry, hickory, oh my!
By jm
September 29, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this
woodenduh@12:35 - just like I would not let another company (Georgia) get complete control of a key resource that I (Alabama or Florida) depended on.
By getalife
September 29, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this
duh,
Yes, that Move on lie was an outrage by the gop:
“David Petraeus is a political general. Yet in presenting his recent assessment of the Iraq War and in describing the “way forward,” Petraeus demonstrated that he is a political general of the worst kind—one who indulges in the politics of accommodation that is Washington’s bread and butter but has thereby deferred a far more urgent political imperative, namely, bringing our military policies into harmony with our political purposes. ”
That is from The American Conservative magazine.
No water eh?
Pray for rain loser.
Bwa.
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this
As an afterthought to WD’s usual top notch post, let us all not forget that The Shrillary said that no good can ever come from privatization. In other words, America is only good because of government, and any bad things in America are the fault of privatization. Someone needs to send that message up to the CEO of UPS, because UPS took over a segment of what the USPS could not do competently or efficiently: overnight and second day package delivery. The USPS is a monumental fuster cluck from the government union sorters to the contracted carriers who deliver your mail to your neighbor. And liberal asshats want to turn our freaking HEALTH CARE over to these incompetent boobs? Incredible.
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this
Muslim jihadist leaders interviewed for a new book were ecstatic about statements from television talk host Rosie O’Donnell about the war in Iraq and the global war on terror, agreeing with her outspoken views.
Some even invited her on a “fact finding mission” to the Middle East.
“I agree with what this O’Donnell says. …We welcome Rosie O’Donnell to stay among us and to get to know the truth from being here, like many American peace activists are doing,” said Ala Senakreh, West Bank chief of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades terrorist organization.
Yeah, you go on over there. Pig liberal. See how they treat infidels like you, women like you, and most definitely, homosexual lesbians like you. Get to know the truth that we already know, Rosie.
Coming soon: Youtube broadcast of a group of Americans who are going to pile up all their DVD movies with Hollywood w******* like George Clooney and the latest nutroots addition, Sally Field, drop them in a huge hole, torch them, and then bury the smoldering remains forever. I’ve got 23 DVDs that will be going to that cause. Yes, I’m involved with the event, and yes, the video will be linked here.
By getalife
September 29, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this
Rudy, Rudy, Rudy
Geez.
By getalife
September 29, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this
Clarence Thomas Makes Case for Recusal
See ya.
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this
More from the Liberal Looney bin: San Fransicko film commissioner, Stephanie Coyote (married to third rate actor and narrating voiceover Peter Coyote), dissed the Marine Corps. by refusing to allow them to film an ad on a street. Her reason? “Traffic control issues.” This is the same disgusting city that allows naked liberal freakshows to organize naked nati-war bicycle races, gay and transgendered fests in the streets, and other freak show events. Disgusting. Absolutely liberally disgusting.
By getalife
September 29, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this
BREAKING: Newt says “Never Mind”
Go hang out with Zell.
Just Go away.
Loser.
By RW (the oravaginal)
September 29, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this
duh(tm)
geez(tm)
nobacksnoviceversasnochangies
Talk Soup’s clip of the week is the funniest thing I’ve seen in years. A swedish hostess to a call-in talk show is sitting on a stool, to camera front, and she’s answering a caller, and suddenly she linda blairs a river of pea soup and tumbles forward and off camera, but in seconds comes back and finishes her sentence, and I mean a river of pea soup erupted from that ladie’s mouth. yet she didn’t miss a beat, acting like nothing had happened.
McD’s definitely is going to have to start pasteurizing their breakfast burritos.
talk soup(tm)
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this
Not only are disgusting liberals in San Fransicko military haters, they are apparently Christian haters too. Well excuse me while I pick my jaw up off the floor from shock. Y
You want douche bag libs like these running the nation? You already have their constituent, The Nanny Pelosi, in charge of Congress. It’s where this nation is headed folks if we don’t get a grip soon.
By getalife
September 29, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this
I saw that PF.
Sick but funny, plus she was fine.
“WASHINGTON - President Bush on Saturday signed a bill to prevent a government shutdown.”
Damn, they should shut it down and solve all these problems he created.
The coward will hand them to the dems like the gop always do.
By RW (the oravaginal)
September 29, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this
The water shortage has been a red herring in atlanta for thirty years. Everytime the el nino come around, or the sante anna winds blow or the sun comes up, the authorities start abusing their power as public servants and begin forcing innocent people to turn off their spigots. The problem is not water sprinklers or leaky faucets or washing your car in your driveway, no sir, the problem is that every new house now comes with a bidet, and once a woman straddles athwart(tm) a bidet, you cant get her off of it, and all that water, at full blast, is wasted. It’s a total waste. I alerted our gubernatorial goober about this problem years ago and he told me that a fresh woman is worth the dehydration of the masses. I said that people may die of thirst or start wars over water in the future, like mad max, and he said that once his girlfriend in highschool’s plumbing broke and she couldn’t shower or nothing and he nearly died. Well, I told him that water is our most precious resource and he asked me if I was gay.
Anyway, every problem facing this country starts with the french, (who invented the bidet).
‘muff said(tm)
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this
Building on WD’s earlier post about government incompetence, let’s give it up for government and government workers once again! This time, a roadkilled raccoon gets striped in yellow by the Illinois DOT. Lazyassed brain dead government worker drones.
By rotten tomato
September 29, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this
Anyway, every problem facing this country starts with the french, (who invented the bidet).
Well P4, I’d have to say that some of the most serious issues facing American started with the French, from Vietnam to ugly women that make Greeks look like goddesses. But hell, the French can cook. So can the Greeks tho. Even money then.
By @@
September 29, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this
Just back from the ME:
Radical Syrian cleric Sheikh Mahmoud Abu al-Qaqa was shot dead as he was leaving Friday prayers Sept. 28 in Syria’s northern city of Aleppo, according to one of his aides. The man who shot Abu al-Qaqa reportedly was chased down and caught by a crowd before being taken into police custody.
The strategic analysis site offered three other possibilities. Through logical assessment they eliminated Israel as the assassin.
The other two possibilities came within Syria itself. One…to deliver on a behind-the-scenes commitment with the U.S. to scale back jihadist activity in Iraq which was being supported by Abu al-Qaqa. Two…a jihadist rival which would indicate fractures within the jihadist movement itself.
The fourth — and more likely — possibility is that the Syrians took out Abu al-Qaqa because he became a threat. Syria has been playing with fire by supporting jihadists such as Abu al-Qaqa, and it could very well be that Damascus felt it was losing its grip on his activities. This is something that we forecast when it became apparent that jihadist activity in Lebanon was directly tied to Syrian military intelligence. If the Syrian regime now feels that its cooperation with the jihadists is coming back to bite it, this will be the first of many mysterious assassinations.
Let’s watch to see how many more animals are put down because they’re biting Syria in the a$$.
More good news…
U.S. troops raided a meeting of al Qaeda in Iraq southwest of As Samarra on Sept. 28, the U.S. military said Sept. 29. One of the suspects captured in the raid is the key communications link between senior leaders of al Qaeda and al Qaeda in Iraq, the military’s statement said.
Good job guys…keep the pressure on the bad guys.
By RW-(the original)
September 29, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this
Geez Polly Prepuce™ get it right.
By @@
Se