Home > Thinking Right > Archives > 2007 > September > 13 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USShould Georgia end property tax?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Republicans, I’ve long argued, don’t handle the media very well — in large part because they assume a liberal bias. Believing their message will be distorted or misunderstood, they choose to try to work around it. That’s not particularly smart, but most get by with it until they come up with a really novel idea that requires a great deal of explanation and selling.
A good example is House Speaker Glenn Richardson’s proposal to eliminate property taxes while expanding the sales tax to services such as haircuts and laundry. The property tax is the most hated government levy and everybody would be glad to be rid of it. The question is how to make up the lost revenues. That’s where the sales job comes in. In addition to the tax on services, which will be a hard sell, the other problem for Richardson to deal with is that the state would collect all taxes and remit local governments’ shares back to them. The exception would be a local option sales tax, collected and kept locally.
It’s a big idea with some merit. Richardson argues that capping state collections, as has been proposed, is pointless if locals are able to raise taxes. That would invite tax-shifting rather than spending discipline, he said. Locals hate the idea and are quietly but aggressively working the state to get Richardson’s proposal killed.
Gov. Sonny Perdue, one of those Republicans who has a more formal relationship with the media, warmed up Wednesday, inviting a number of State Capitol reporters to breakfast at a midtown diner, to talk about issues of the day and about the upcoming session.
He’s cool — as in not particularly receptive — to Richardson’s proposal. He thinks it would encroach on local authority, as it would. That’s intentional. “The first thing you’ve got to keep in mind when you want to do good is not to do harm,” said the governor.
This tax shift, if it happens at all, is a long time off. It won’t happen in the coming session. People don’t understand it well enough. Details are still in flux. And it requires a lot more communication — and selling — than one state official can do alone or with a few allies addressing civic clubs.
The question here, though, is whether people do hate the property tax enough to consider a shift and, if so, how? A higher sales tax? A lower, but expanded, sales tax that would include services? A higher state income tax? The maximum rate now is 6 percent. Or leave the system untouched?
Comments
By Jeff
September 13, 2007 8:36 AM | Link to this
Put a state “transaction” tax on every single business-consumer transaction.
My bet is that it could be around 2% and STILL generate more money that the property and sales taxes that exist right now…
By HA
September 13, 2007 8:40 AM | Link to this
I say do away with property and income taxes!!!!!! Our greedy government gets too much of our money as it is!!!
By jbmlaw
September 13, 2007 8:47 AM | Link to this
Good morning all. Real Property is a form of capital; any tax assessed against capital increases the costs of production. Those costs are paid by someone:
(a) consumers in the form of higher prices
(b) employees in the form of lower wages
(c) suppliers, due to harder negotiation
(d) owners, in the form of lower return on capital, and
(e) all of society due to lower productivity/higher inefficiency.
I favor value-added and/or sales taxes, as less disruptive to the economic fabric, but that is merely an issue of personal preference. A better solution, than selection between two general poisons, is diminishment of the role of Leviathan generally.
By the stopper
September 13, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this
Oh, goodie! Those civic-spirited right-wing Republicans are going to “cut taxes” and do what is surely in everyone’s best interests with this latest regressiv—er, I mean, “fair” kinda sales tax!
I’m sure that this isn’t just another bald-faced attempt to provide huge sums of available capital to the already-fat-and-happy and screw working people who, after all, probably don’t even have the right skin color or speak that good English we dun learnt!
Yee-haw! And did I mention, that Ayn Rand, she is HAWT!
Lastly, jbmlaw—that eeekonomix of yours is real sound! keep up the good work and we’ll get that Gubmint drowned in a bathtub just like Grover promised.
By DebbieDoRight
September 13, 2007 9:08 AM | Link to this
Tax haircuts? Tax laundry? Tax goods and services that are already carrying high taxes as well as added taxes on food and gas, (container tax on things such as milk and juice, etc.)?
Let’s just make it a wee bit simpler so that the state of georgia can survive, why don’t they, the repuglicans, stand at the georgia state line with a shot gun, a bandanna over their faces, and a hat in their hands. We already know that we’re being robbed blind, no need in prettying things up with even more “goods and services” taxes then what we already have.
What’s the matter Wooten? Tired of paying the taxes on that $5 mil mansion of yours? Ohh booo hoo; we poor land owners are so put upon by the state, (even though we get tax cuts for being land owners); that we’d rather dump everything on the little guy so that we can have more money to go on trips to Brazil.
I hope the repuglicans do try to initiate this new tax — that’ll be the quickest way to run them outta office in no time.
==================================
Moved since last election? CALL YOUR LOCAL County Registrars Office; especially if you’re a registered Independent or Democrat. Remember Katherine Harris 2000, Florida!!!
Here’s the link:
http://sos.georgia.gov/elections/elections/voterinformation/2000voter_info.asp
By @@
September 13, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this
Wait a minute Jim…the value of my home is dependent on my local governing officials. The decisions they make impact my ability to sell.
If their decisions, i.e. zoning…infrastructure…schools, etc. have a negative impact on my county, then I can’t recoup my capital investment for the value assessed on my property. They’ve been winnin’ and I’ve been losin’.
Don’t worry, you future is in the hands of government?
I don’t think so. I want out. Do away with the property tax.
See ‘ya.
By the stopper
September 13, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this
Thanks, Debbie, for keeping a straight face on this—I find it hard when discussing economics with thieving wingnuts.
BTW, Jim? When you wrote: “The property tax is the most hated government levy and everybody would be glad to be rid of it.”
uh, no. For the record, I do NOT want to get rid of it. And yes, I am a property owner; furthermore, I have lived in the Northeast and have some idea of what truly high property taxes are like.
Having said that, I have always been somewhat queasy about relying too heavily on property taxes to fund public schools, and feel that things as currently configured—with SPLOST funds being in the mix—is the rational way to go.
Of course, we also need impact fees on new construction for a variety of good reasons (not the least of which is the positive effect it would have on existing-home prices), but your developer buddies have done all they can to keep that from happening, haven’t they?
By MELO
September 13, 2007 9:28 AM | Link to this
Republicans can always go to Fox noise!!
What is the point of repalcing the property tax with a different tax system if the revenues are going to be the same…to create a buraucracy within the state and more inefficiency?
By stuffedshirt
September 13, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this
YES, and lets end this free public babysitting that is mis labeled as education. Fire all the public school teachers, close the schools, and let parents pay for private schools for their brats, or educate them at home. When public education began, most parents were illiterate, so schools were needed to teach the three Rs. Now schools are just babysitting services provided at the homeowners expense. Education is over rated except in the sciences and engineering. We do not need english, history, journalism, business, and phys ed college graduates, they are useless at best, and blood sucking productivity thieves at worst.
By JohnD
September 13, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this
The reason to replace the property tax with a sales tax is to spread the cost to ALL who benefit.
Property owners now subsidize those who do not own property. By removing the property tax homes and other real estate becomes more affordable for those who would like to own rather than rent.
Additionally, as in Florida, Texas and Nevada (to name three) visitors to the state also participate in paying for government services they use when the revenue source is a sales tax. Those three states, by the way, do have property taxes but no income taxes.
By DebbieDoRight
September 13, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this
Florida, Nevada and Texas don’t need state income taxes. They have tourists that make up the difference. How many tourists does Georgia get a year when there’s no SuperBowl or Final Four in Atlanta? 60?
By Curious Observer
September 13, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this
I’m sure the counties will simply love having the state legislature determine how much revenue they will receive, for a substitute for the property tax would surely be collected at the state level. The counties that now value low taxes more than good services will be able to stop squawking about how them bad old big counties can afford PCs in schools and such.
Why, we can be down to spending $400 per child on education in no time. And we might as well put county commissions out of business, while we’re at it. They’ll have only what the state legislature decides to give them. They’ll be powerless to raise their own funds. I can see the long line of county officials at the state capital, all waiting their turn to kiss some fat Republican legislator’s butt and receive instructions.
There are some things even worse than property taxes, and one of them is totally centralized control of political activities. Whatever happened to the Republicans’ crying for smaller government? Oh, I get it! That only applies if there isn’t the prospect of a big pot of tax money to be doled out in exchange for political control.
I too am sick of property taxes. I have a $1,500 Fulton County tax bill sitting on my desk, a chunk of it for Grady and a major portion of it for schools. And my house is far from grand or even at the valuation average for the county. I am aware that if I lived in Cherokee or Cobb county, that bill would be cut almost in half. And I know that shortly I will be receiving a property tax bill for another $400 from the City of Roswell.
But I would rather deal with this kind of inequity and have at least some control of county activities than cede all control to the state and shift the tax burden even further to low-income people.
Richardson’s proposal has many of the characteristics of the fat opera singer. Sounds good, but looks bad and stinks to high heaven.
By JohnD
September 13, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this
Tax haircuts? Tax laundry? Tax goods and services that are already carrying high taxes as well as added taxes on food and gas, (container tax on things such as milk and juice, etc.)?
Are you saying haircuts and laundry are already carrying high taxes? High sales taxes or some other hidden tax only you know?
Did you read the entire comment by JW or just start typing frantically? If services were to be included, according to JW, the overall sales tax rate would decrease.
Try understanding the concept before you go off on your liberal rant born in bias.
By JohnD
September 13, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this
DDR,
So, do you include Tennessee in those states who have higher tourist traffic than Georgia? Also no state income tax.
You are too shallow for words.
By Political Foreskin
September 13, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this
Jim Wooten accomplished a minor masterpiece this morning. His title purposefully induces ennui in order to ensure that the reader only casually glances at the open. Then he blindsides you with a parallel-construct introduction, so that you nearly tumble and slide into the real topic of the blog: The Sovereignty Wars between the State and Local cash-register-lobby fatcats (and their tempting soccor moms). Soccor moms are underrated, BTW. Go for it, I guarantee success and happiness. They’re all amazing, and they all ridicule their husbands. Their husbands are chasing beauty queens and trophies. Some are rejected and miserable and will treat you like a king. Life could be a dream. Only three soccor moms in all the years I’ve been admiring them have pressed charges. Not bad for a wolf. Sometimes I howl at the moon.
Anyway, back to Jim’s Article. Jim is suggesting we look at the state charter as it was formed and the history of that formation, because that is where the rabble will find the legal approach to dissemble the whitefolk obstructions in front of a democratic tax system.
One has to look at the life of a certain mr cobb. 1850’s cobb county. Newt Gingrich Machine today. Follow the horse’s azz, Jim, use the horse. Use the horse.(starwars reference).
Georgia didn’t want no part of the Confederacy if the South had won the civil war. Georgians looked at Virginians as Kurds. If there’s one thing plantation owners didn’t cotton to, it’s virginians….
So Cobb dies at Fredrickburg behind the stone wall on Mary’s Heights. (That means that the Union line got well within range and withstood the pointblank barrage and delivered effective counter fire. The union soldiers dropped like rainwater drops from the eaves of a roof during a rainstorm…. constantly and everywhere along the line, and randomly, yet at once.)
So Cobb’s estate must have had everything to do with how we are entangled in the current Georgia State Fatcat Tax Grab. I dont see any possible chance for inter-generational corruption there, do you? Where was the supervision?
Use the horse, jim.
By the stopper
September 13, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this
“Why, we can be down to spending $400 per child on education in no time.”
Careful, you’ll get the Glibertarians all excited!
By Anonymous
September 13, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this
You can always spot a true conservative: they never tire of their efforts to shift the tax burden from the wealthy to the poor, where it “belongs.”
And the latest fad is switching from property taxes (which affect people wealthy enough to own property, duh) to sales taxes (which disproportionately affect those barely able to survive on a meager income).
After all… there’s so many MORE of the poor, surely we can collect just as much from them as we do by targeting a few rich folks, right? At least, until we think up new ways to prove that the poor have it too darn good and the rich are suffering. “Lucky duckies!”
By JohnD
September 13, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this
Curios Observer,
There was no detail on the logistics of the proposal but assumption being the mother of all mistakes you jumped right in to the pool.
The current sales tax reporting form includes sections for the cafeteria plan of sales taxes as collected on behalf of the counties by the state. The system does not “give the counties what the legislature decides” but distributes to the counties that which was collected on their behalf. No subjective decisions by the legislature are involved.
As for the charge of passing on the tax to the poor, how many poor people do you suppose use a dry cleaners on a regular basis? How many use a CPA or lawyer? What tax on services do you suppose wil be a burden on the poor?
Does the lowering of the sales tax in general not sound like a good thing for the poor?
DDR was whining about the high taxes on food, do liberals know the sales tax on food is already lower than the general sales tax? Half or less I think.
By Liberal Drive-by
September 13, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this
I don’t know about this one. What would be the effect on property assessments? Like it or not those assessments are used as the basis for home pricing, unless you live in Fulton where the tax assessors office is a mess.
Everybody pays property taxes whether they own or rent. Renters pay it to the owners who pay the government. Renters are just middlemen.
Stuffedshirt- education is overated…
I wouldn’t say that but there are some classes we can do without. Teach english, math, science, and how to read. The rest of that stuff should be taught in college for those who want to attend.
By Goldie
September 13, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this
Why don’t we start the “tax revolution” by closing the subsidies and loopholes for big business ventures, such as — oh I dunno— new Wal-Marts, and new football and basketball arenas that only seem to last as long as the tax subsidy lasts! Maybe we could save a BILLION or two in tax loss every few years…
By DebbieDoRight
September 13, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this
JohnD: When you’re “talking” to me, please remember that just because I have an independent mind and not a brain dead conservative one, does not mean that I am automatically opposed to any good and reasonable options or thoughts just because they come out of the republican party’s camp, (unlike some of your repuglican brethern).
To answer your question, YES for their cost differential, haircuts and laundry are already carrying high taxes.
At the laundromat the cost of the electricity, (taxed by the state and county and/or municipality), water, (taxed by the county or city), building lease OR building taxes, (taxed by the county), are all passed down to the consumer. Even the Liability /Property Insurance that the Owner pays is passed along to the consumer. These costs are “trickled down” so that the $6.00 jumbo washer that washes for 10 minutes that the consumer uses makes the owner a $4.00 profit.
This is called Civics 101, Risk Management 101 and Economics 101. Please grab any of those books and read them. There’s some great stuff in it.
By Redneck Convert
September 13, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this
Well, I pay almost $50 per year for taxes on the trailer and its hiway robbry. Forsyth County takes my money and wastes it on schools and such. We don’t need that much schooling in GA. Just take care of the kids for us while we work and when they get to be 16 they can go out and start making money to buy their own trailer and pickup.
I don’t want more sales taxes neither. The tax on Skoal and Red Man is already out of sight, what with the state and the federal guvmints taking a chunk. Anyway, I like the idea of taxing services. Why should I have to pay sales tax on the missus perscription when the rich people don’t pay no tax on dry cleaning their fancy clothes or their 100-buck hairdos? I bet that librul John Edwards don’t pay a penny in tax on his 400-buck haircuts.
Anyway, I’ll leave it to smart people like jbmlaw and that crazy TFTT to hash out the ins and outs of this tax idea today. I know it will all end the same anyway. This Debbie and TFTT will start calling each other names and pretty soon the topic will be all forgot about and this blog will look like the fambly reunion where people don’t like each other none and the police has to be called.
Have a good day everybody.
By time for the harsh truth
September 13, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this
They actually did this in Greenville SC recently - cut the property taxes and put up the sales tax by a penny in the county/city to a whopping 6%. Thus the property taxes will be about halved next year so I was told by some folks in my trip there last month. This is responsible GOP govt. Making the illegal leeches, all the always unwanted yanKKKee visitors and the rest pay a bit more.
I deeply resent paying property taxes for liberal dominated schools with worthless far left teeeeechers puking up far left bollocks and self absorbed brats who all too often are too dim/stupid/lazy to even graduate (and obsessed with NOT riding on the skoooool bus after a certain age, as if that’s of any real consequence)even with the most dumbed down ‘exit exam’ ever faced by these often moronic kiddies.
This is what happens to a southern state after an infestation of mouthy nasal whining I know best yanKKKees, illegal mexican type leeches and sullen racist utterly unwanted black northerners!!
By DebbieDoRight
September 13, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
Goldie: Good point!!!
JohnD: I hate to say it; but you are a closed minded idiot. How very apt that you are a member of the repuglican party. You call me names; but those same names you call me more aptly reflect you.
You also don’t know the extent of this proposed “tax cut”; but you automatically jump on the bandwagon because it was developed by a repuglican. Your very actions speak more loudly than anything you’ve posted on this blog.
By RCH
September 13, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this
Curious Observer
By implementing a type of ” fair tax” for Georgia, the burden of taxes would be spread more evenly among all Ga. taxpayers or non-payers. It is easier to raise your home assessment every year than to raise sales tax by a penny or two. (My assessment was raised by 80K. There is no way I could sell my home for the value they have assigned it.My current tax bill is over 8K, and you thought you had it bad.)
Anouymous Maybe you don’t realize, even though you may nor own a home, part of you rent has embedded property tax that you pay.
By the stopper
September 13, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this
BTW, if you want a better description of this ridiculous scheme:
http://www.georgiatrend.com/neely-young/0807neely.shtml
(the article’s author doesn’t appear to have a particular ax to grind.)
By JohnD
September 13, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
Vehicle manufacturing plants, large retailers, sports arenas and others who receive tax subsidy bring jobs, customers, fans and other benefits to the jurisdictions granting the subsidy. The published info always presents the decision as a net benefit to the state, county or city involved.
Is there turly a net benefit? I do not know or wish to take the time to study the plans but surely there is some watch-dog group somewhere that can answer the question.
By DebbieDoRight
September 13, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this
Redneck: Not So!!! I don’t even deign to talk to that thing!! All it does is shrill and whine about blacks and mexicans and pray for the good old days of the south to return!
I’d much rather run the thing down with your beer truck — I’d back up and hit it again and again until it looked like road kill; but I’d never speak to it!! Take that back!
By Political Foreskin
September 13, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this
Reading is Fundamental. (and the other is half mental)
Comprehension is Divine.
Converting to Islam is optional here, mandatory there. So we refuse to convert to Islam over there so we dont have to refuse to convert to Islam over here. We have 4 million Islamics in the USA. Not one has demanded that we convert, only Osama did.
Is Osama typical of every Islamic American? If yes, then we’re finished. So to ensure peace, we have to convince the American Islamics that we respect and revere Islam, and their right to practice Islam.
Unless we show a staunch respect and reverence for Islam, we’re finished. Their hotheads will attack. That’s a certainty.
Dont convert if you dont want to, but respect those that do. Otherwise we’re finished. It will be war. War 4 nothing except 4 johnWayne and the McRove Bar Ranch.
We all have our own personal opinion about the diverse religious practices of the American People. In prison, they invent ceremonial religions to take peyote. I would take peyote if I was in prison. Let them. Respect Peyote. Revere Peyote.
Get the picture and the way to peace? We should build gargantuan mosques to both sunni and shia in Iraq, and see what the sunni and shia do if Al Queda attacks those mosques. Make the mosques historical in stature. Let them build it, we should simply pay for it. Let’s help Islam win in Iraq. (the good islam, the sunnis and shia, for the win).
Too bad the kurds are considered infidels. That ruins my plan for peace. I had you going, though, didn’t I? Fire Patraeus. Incompetent spin. He basically said we are stuck there for generations and generations and any withdrawal will be a photo-op only minimal bunch of three day passes for the already wounded guys. (and gals).
Fire Patraeus. I dont trust soldiers who cant lie very well when the country’s at war.
By AnotherHUH?
September 13, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this
Who says renters pay no property taxes?
Every economist I have ever heard mention this says renters pay for the property taxes in their rent. And SUPPOSEDLY, if property taxes were reduced, rents would decline.
By Curious Observer
September 13, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this
Some interesting stuff today on the political nature of Petraeus. He was assigned to Republican minority leader Mitch McConnell’s senate office for a while. Turns out that the new nominee for Chairman, JCS, hates him, calling Petraeus a sycophant to his face.
By JohnD
September 13, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this
DDR,
Please read my earlier comment on ASSUMPTION.
At no point in any of my posts have I indicated I supported the plan. I simply pointed out to you, and others, the fallacy of their opposition.
I have never indicated I was a member of the Republican Party, or even a devoted supporter. You seem to be an Assumption junkie.
The fact is (I know you seldom actually consider facts) that I very seldom even mention the Democrat Party. If you read my posts you will see references to conservative and liberal thought not political party thought. There are conservatives and liberals in both parties. In fact, were it not for the conservative Democrats elected in the Senate and House, control would still lie in the hands of the Republicans.
Now for your Laundromat example. Exactly what do you mean by “their cost differential”? Are you trying to say that relative to the price of the service their costs are higher than other businesses? Where do you arrive at the $4 profit claim? Do you own a Laundromat? Do you not see that the 67% profit belies your “cost differential” assertion? The costs you mentioned are borne by every business and the 67% profit means the costs are less significant not more.
If a laundromat makes a 67% profit then everyone would like to own one. You should read those books you mentioned.
As for the haircut, I happen to have a client in the business. Small increases, $1 to $2, have little or no impact on sales. So a sales tax of 5% would be unlikely to limit sales or deter the customers from having a haircut or the customer’s ability to feed a family.
Also, I did not call you names - I said you were shallow. Read the post I made and then your response. I noted the tax would spread the cost to all those who benefit plus the tourists would participate. You ignored the most germane portion of the post and commented the states mentioned do not need income tax because they have more tourists.
Attacking an insignificant portion of the post is indeed - shallow.
Claiming an independent mind is not supported by your posts. You follow the dailykos.com and liberal dogma right down the line.
By RCH
September 13, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this
As to General Petraeus, I called it months ago. Good news in Iraq is bad news for the “Cut and run gang.” The military surge is working. Like it or not. Even liberal leaning news organizations like CBS and CNN have stated this. Let the military do their job.
Now let the politicians deal with the government of Iraq. Let them use their so called experience and insight on teaching the fledgling Iraq politicians on how to govern. Good luck and LOL)
As to Hillary Clinton who wants to be Commander and Chief. How dare she makes statements towards this man that has more ethics and morals in his little finger than She and her Husband have in their hole body.Despicable
By time to effortlessly goad crackpipe debbieturd
September 13, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this
I see the whoralicious crackpipe debbieturd is taking a 5 min breather (gedditt??) from servicing illegal leech day labourers at its local Home Depot to puke up its usual imbecilic hate. How many 50 cent Big Gulps so far today girrrrrrrrrrrrrrl????
In all deadly seriousness sullen racist black b itch debbieturd I would NEVER EVER even joke about returning to the bad old racist/oppressive days of the old south. That was abominable and utterly indefensible by anyone except hateful deranged nazi scum. But feel free AS EVER to puke up your rabid witless lies about your genetic/intellectual betters!!!
Cheers for saying you’d like to kill me repeatedly U nasty sullen black racist b itch!!! That was freaking hilarious!!! still LMFAO!!!
Your miserable, abject fate crackpipe debbieturd is to be U… that is actually a much nastier fate that’s even worse than being a morose leper colony w hore forced to spend 18 hours a day blowing the likes of soddom/uday/chemical ali, yapper arabfart and col ghadaffy duck of Libyan infamy.
maybe in your next life crackpipe you can dream of aspiring to being just an anonymous brain damaged mollusc with maybe curable shellfish genital herpes!! But then again … you DO have this fetid worthless racist turd life to atone for!!
By Tom
September 13, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this
Sure, Curious Observer, but don’t you understand that Admiral Fallon hates America, just like General Clark, General Shinseki, General Batiste, etc.?
By JohnD
September 13, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this
I heard a mainstream report that 70% of Democrats and a like number of Republicans would never vote for Hillary for President but that she would still win the nomination due to the money she has raised.
Could this be true or just another poll anomaly?
By JohnD
September 13, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this
RCH,
Was that “hole body” thing a typo or a freudian slip?
By the stopper
September 13, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this
“I heard a mainstream report that 70% of Democrats and a like number of Republicans would never vote for Hillary for President”
Um, no, you didn’t. Nice try, though.
By RCH
September 13, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this
JohnD
Maybe both; LOL. If it was between her and abstaining from sex, I would become a monk! UGH
By DebbieDoRight
September 13, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this
JohnD: No I don’t own a laundromat. Since most of your posts bespeak of a person of limited intellect and a high degree of inherent A.D.D.-like symptons; that “demo” of the laundromat that I posted was dumbed down for you.
The fact is (I know you seldom actually consider facts) that I very seldom even mention the Democrat Party
FACT: Ask a 5th grader what is considered or perceived to be a “Liberal” or a “Conservative” and see what answer they come up with. For instance: You are describing a cow; but you’re not “mentioning” it by name but describing it’s features, saying “the animal that gives milk and moos” while pointing at said animal, may technically mean that you’ve never mentioned the word cow; but even that same 5th grader will know which animal you’re referring too.
I simply pointed out to you, and others, the fallacy of their opposition
This is your comment at 9:44 Property owners now subsidize those who do not own property. By removing the property tax homes and other real estate becomes more affordable for those who would like to own rather than rent
It sounds like an endorsement to me. Unless of course it’s more of your you never “mentioned” the subject directly rhetoric again.
I noted the tax would spread the cost to all those who benefit plus the tourists would participate. You ignored the most germane portion of the post and commented the states mentioned do not need income tax because they have more tourists.
My mentioning tourism WAS the germane portion of your post. The rest of what you said is just obscuring the obvious.
Attacking an insignificant portion of the post is indeed - shallow
Yes, yes of course. I don’t agree with you so of course my opinion is shallow compared to yours. Ok. I get it. Hail Big Brother, He sees all and knows all.
You follow the dailykos.com and liberal dogma right down the line.
And you get all of your various talking points from Hannity & Homeboy, Rush and Ann the Man. Well, at least I can say my opinions are all original thoughts; whereas yours come right out of the “How To Talk Liberals” guidebook.
By J
September 13, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this
“The property tax is the most hated government levy…”
Perhaps if you are wealthy enough to live off of invested funds. However, for the vast majority of us that WORK for a living, I would venture to guess that income taxes are indeed the most hated.
Personally, my most hated is the payroll tax - i.e. the “double taxation” that conservatives almost always fail to mention. (I’m sure it’s just an oversight.)
But thems the breaks.
By BozoTheClown
September 13, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this
Q: What’s the difference in developers and rats?
A: The rats are more lovable.
By YourNemisis
September 13, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this
By RCH
September 13, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this
As to General Petraeus, I called it months ago.
By RCH
September 13, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this
As to General Petraeus, I called it months ago.
RCH the only thing you’ve called lately is your mother to pick you up when that beat up old Miata you drive breaks down. What a fraud.
By YourNemisis
September 13, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this
By RCH
September 13, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this
JohnD
Maybe both; LOL. If it was between her and abstaining from sex, I would become a monk! UGH
You might as well be a monk RCH, based on the multitude of rejections you suffered in your former workplace. But I bet you’ve had lots of imaginary sex with your best girl Rosy Palm. You’re a real piece of work punk.
By Robert Wingard
September 13, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this
By RCH
September 13, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this
Curious Observer
By implementing a type of ” fair tax” for Georgia, the burden of taxes would be spread more evenly among all Ga. taxpayers or non-payers. It is easier to raise your home assessment every year than to raise sales tax by a penny or two. (My assessment was raised by 80K. There is no way I could sell my home for the value they have assigned it.My current tax bill is over 8K, and you thought you had it bad.)
Since when is there property taxes on your 1 bedroom apartment RCH?
By jm
September 13, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this
Property tax is the most hated government levy? Sorry Mr. Wooten, but I hate my income tax a lot more than my property tax.
Why don’t we look at this proposal for its real purpose, which is to use Atlanta metropolitan region (where most of the sales tax revenue will be generated) to fund projects in the rest of the state. Also, who will be the primary beneficiary of this proposal, individuals or companies with large land holdings (methinks the latter).
By see ya tonite crackpipe under the fiery cross at midnite
September 13, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this
Its freaking hilarious that crackpipe debbieturd is actually systematically sneering at folks for being “dumb’ … talk about the pot calling the kettle black … huge smirk
funny too how crackpipe incessantly whines and b itches (clever pun intended) about hate from the ‘right’ when its own virulent hate and intolerance of ANY DIFFERING OPINIONS is at least as poisonous as anything puked up by KKKlansman R Byrd WV or DUI Killer Kennedy MA or the evil extra-chromosomed wankpig traitor Feingold WI.
nice to see crackpipe yet again talking about cows … clearly even crackpipe has fleeting moments of extreme lucidity that show it recognises its own familial herding instincts (gedditt??)!!
STFU crackpipe … and meet me under the big ol fiery cross at midnite tonite … together we can whistle Dixie and look up at the almost smog free stars … you bring the moonpies - I’ll bring the RC Cola!!
see crackpipe how much fun one can have generously gently humouring your twisted mendacious doltish lies about one’s falsely percieved attitude to the bad old days!!!
By RCH
September 13, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this
By see ya tonite crackpipe under the fiery cross at midnite
September 13, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this meet me under the big ol fiery cross at midnite tonite … together we can whistle Dixie and look up at the almost smog free stars … you bring the moonpies - I’ll bring the RC Cola!!
I’LL BE THERE!! I’ll bring the rope and a Mexican?
By BS Aplenty
September 13, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this
Ah, never been a tax that the liberals didn’t like and the more the merrier. After all, how else are the libs going to rob the industrious types in society. How else to make those bad capitalists just quit making the poor look bad.
NOW, that rant being leveled, is it better to tax capital or consumption - I’m indifferent. The government wants reliability in collections and a tax system that doesn’t adversely affect economic growth. A good businessman also wants diverse revenue streams.
All that being said - the less tax & government the better.
By RCH
September 13, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this
As you can probably surmise the RCH post at 12:34 is a fraud, much like Robert Wingaurd and my nemisis.Have no orginal thoughts do you?
By DebbieDoRight
September 13, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this
Twisted, your eyes only:
http://www.killsometime.com/animations/animation.asp?ID=52
Enjoy!
By stuffedshirt
September 13, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this
What kind of fair income tax allows a financial manipulator using other peoples money to pocket 900 million dollars at a 15 percent tax rate? that is what our tax system allowed the thieves at blackstone group to do, imho.
By Robert Wingard
September 13, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this
By RCH
September 13, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this
As you can probably surmise the RCH post at 12:34 is a fraud, much like Robert Wingaurd and my nemisis.Have no orginal thoughts do you?
When you have one that is not a lie RCH, we’ll have one that is original. Kinda hard to be original when one has to listen to your regurgitated lies practically everyday.
By RCH
September 13, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this
Obviously Robert Wingard and my nemisis are Mexicans out to get me.
By jm
September 13, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this
rch - here is one for you. If an area has already been ethnically cleansed, wouldn’t you expect sectarian violence to decrease?
Sorry folks, Iraq is broken and it is not worth putting back together. The Kurds want nothing to do with the Shia and the Sunni in the south and the Shia and the Sunni want nothing (except maybe to kill) each other. The end result is already there, a shia dominated south that is allied with Iran, an independent Kurdish state to the north (that may or may not learn to live with the turks to their north) and a sunni dominated west allied with Saudia Arabia, Jordan and Egypt (and ironically, since that is where most of the US fighting has been, the US).
By RCH
September 13, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this
Again RCH at 12:57 is a false post. Must have learned your tactics from the far left.
By jct
September 13, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this
Afternoon everyone,
One item that I can not wrap my mind around is the impact on small business owners. This may have already been discussed but I don’t have time to ready every post today.
Does this not add another burden to the small business owner on top of the other taxes (federal and state) that the owner has to file. Will these taxes be filed quarterly as well?
I don’t see how putting a sales tax requirement on services will help small business person. That is just one more administrative headache that they have to deal with at the start up of a business.
Besides sales tax is the most regression form of taxation. From the posts that I had time to read, I saw the only property owners pay taxes. This is just not true. If you rent, you indirectly pay taxes through your rental payment. It is an easy tax to pass only to the renter. You may not be able to immediately change the rent when the tax bill is received, however, you do have the right to raise the rent at the end of the lease.
By Jackie
September 13, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this
With the Congressional testimony of Gen. Petraeus and Amb. Crocker, Dubya has successfully transferred responsibility of the Iraqi invasion to Gen. Petraeus in the short-term and the next President in the long-term. Testimony was given that US troops would have to remain in Iraqi for the next ten year at a cost of 60 troops dead and more than $7 Billion each month. Our property taxes will be enormous because we will have to pay off the accumulated debt for this criminality.
By RCH
September 13, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this
Jackie I believe the General was referring to a contingency force much as we have had after previous wars. Do we still not have troops in Germany, Japan, and South Korea years after those wars ended. Have we not dumped billions of dollars in those counties that far exceeded any money we have spent on Iraq. And lastly, were not all these conflicts initiated by Democrates? ( Not to say that these actions were in error.)
By DebbieDoRight
September 13, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this
Dubya has successfully transferred responsibility of the Iraqi invasion to Gen. Petraeus in the short-term and the next President in the long-term
You caught that too huh? I think it was Harold who had said here on this blog, (even though he was joking), that the “plan” in Iraq is to deny, deny, deny, defame, then wait for the dems to take the white house then give them all the blame.
This tactic was evident I noticed on yesterday’s blog. Even though Rumsfeld was the Defense Secretary, Dumbya the President, they held both houses until 2006; somehow it became the “democrats” fault that the War in Iraq is in a shambles. Amazing!
By DebbieDoRight
September 13, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this
Do we still not have troops in Germany, Japan, and South Korea years after those wars ended.
We have troops in Germany because they violated the treaty of WWI.
In Korea because, theorectically the War there never ended; we are just at a cease fire.
Japan — I don’t know about why we have troops still in Japan; I’ll look that one up.
By JohnD
September 13, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this
DDR,
OK, in spite of your limited reading comprehension skills I will try again.
The post you refer to at 9:44 was answering a post at 9:28. This was not an endorsement but an answer to a question.
Your Laundromat example was inaccurate and simply DUMB, not dumbed down. Again you did not address the issues with your example you just cut and run. I could not resist your inability to actually address issues and not simply blather on.
By your 5th grade comment you are assuming all Democrats are liberal and all conservatives are Republican. You really should come out from behind your keyboard and enter the real world sometime.
Addressing you is such a waste of time but here goes again. The germane portion of the post was spreading the cost to those who benefit and tourists were an example.
As for Rush, Hannity and the others I never listen to Limbaugh, very seldom hear Hannity unless I happen to be in my car and I think entirely for myself - unlike you who give the impression of being nothing more than an entitlement junkie.
You have not addressed the totally inept examples you gave of the “unfair tax on services” simply because I can only assume you have no answer and you have no facts. Your examples were lame, inaccurate, and in fact supported just the opposite of that which you tried to state.
A 67% profit? You should really stop self-medicating.
By RCH
September 13, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this
Debbiedoright
Like the Germans, did not Iraq violate the terms of the first Gulf War agreement?
If you like shifting the blame game lets look at Vietnam. It was started by a Democrat( Kennedy), escalated under Johnson (Democrat), and landed in the lap of Nixon who carried most of the blame but managed to get us out of there. ( Even though I didn’t agree with his methods or end result)
You are right, the war with North Korea has never ended. Technically we are still at war. In Japan we are present at the innovation of the Japanese govt. If we need to leave anywhere it is Japan and Germany just keeping bases that we need as a stepping stone to other parts of the world.
By BozoHater
September 13, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this
conflicts initiated by Democrates
only on this blog could the stopping of Nazi Germany taking over Europe, or our reaction to the bombing of Pearl Harbor be called that.
BOZO!
By RCH
September 13, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this
BozoHater
(Not to say that these actions where in error) You must of missed this.
Korea, Vietnam. There were no bombings or invasions by an enemy upon us. Again both initiated by a Democratic president.
By Jackie
September 13, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this
@RCH
Yes, we still have troops all over the world, but, the problem is we do not have troops that are trained for the type of mission that we have in Iraq. You indicate conflicts in Japan, Korea and Germany were initiated by Democrats. Was World War II a Democratic initiative? Did the Democrats attack Korea? My view of this matter is Dubya and his neo-con cadre wanted to go to war for Oil, Israel and Land and they did not have/do not have any plans to leave Iraq. Take the example of the current “surge.” More than 30,000 troops were added to the fray to do what? Now, the military professionals have publicly stated that the ground forces would be broken if we do not take some of those troops out of the combat zone by spring. Isn’t it a coincidence that Gen. Petraeus (Dubya) says these troops will begin to be drawn down by the spring, leaving the same number we started with the past spring. I am sure you remember the bombings and attacks on US troops during that period. Secondly, why is there ethnic cleansing in the city of Baghdad, a city of almost 6 Million people. More than 2 Million folks have moved out of Baghdad with the Madr Army in control. What have we accomplished with the surge? When the Sunni’s finish with al-Qaeda in Anbar province, what will we do with the Sunni militia and the tribal chiefs? The Shiite control the south of the country and the British and leaving as quickly as they can. What is next?
By BozoHater
September 13, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this
No, RCH, I did not miss a thing.
By RCH
September 13, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this
Jackie It was under Democratic leadership that we attacked North Korea and Vietnam. (Truman and Kennedy)
The war was not over oil. We recieve no more oil now from Iraq than we did before The first Gulf War. What land did wed gain. When this is over with we may have a few bases like we have in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, but this was not a land grab. Did Israel gain from this second hand. Yes, but I don’t think that was the main objective of this war.The removal of Saddam and his sons was.
The main target of the surge is to buy time for the political unification of the country. If the population must live in three separate areas with shared governing power so be it. It has happened elsewhere; India, and China.Give them that chance.
By Rita
September 13, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
Education is practically near the bottom of the list - and it is mostly because it is so cheap to live here when compared to other states (mostly Northern). Georgia is extremely lucky that property taxes are so low, but look at the quality of education you get.
Better yet - do away with all taxes. No more goverment schools, implement the Fair Tax and let the chips fall where they may!
By stuffedshirt
September 13, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
as the dollar dies on world markets, you ameriKan pigs will not be able to have an army outside your own country. More likely, foreign troops will be stationed on our shores, extracting what wealth they can to pay your international debts.
By Roger Bourg
September 13, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this
The way property tax has increased( 100% increase in one year), I am for doing away with it all together. The county governments are getting greedy. People are being forced to sell their land because the will not be able to afford the tax bill in retirement.
By Dallas
September 13, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this
Right on Bozo!
RCH, why do you not serve your country?
By WAR EAGLE
September 13, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this
Eliminate the Property tax AND the AD Valorem tax-raise the sales tax. Consumption tax is better than these nickle and dime taxes. Plus-you r mortgage goes down when property tax is eliminated. Debbie-are you a blonde cause it seems that everything that comes out of your mouth is just so liberal, democratic, taxocratic and anti capitalistic? Read-What the heck are you talking about!!!Property tax, like the ad valorem, is like taxing you on things that you already bought and paid for. What is next a TV tax? Clothes tax. Bathroom tax? We have too many taxes-we need Government reform-as in on a budget with smaller representatives.
By jm
September 13, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this
RCH - no, the war was over oil. Not just the oil in Iraq, but the oil in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the rest of the arab peninsula. If there was no oil there, the US could care less about the region (except to sell guns so that the sunnis and shia could blast themselves to kingdom come). Every decision the US makes in that region has been about making sure the oil in that region continues to flow.
By DebbieDoRight
September 13, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this
JohnD: I’m gonna dumb it down even further for you. See if you can keep up.
Tax Goods and Services - BAD. BAD. BAD. Tax property owners — Need new idea sure; BUT not tax on goods and services. If tax on goods and services it would be VERY BAD for economy. Florida, Texas, et al. NOT good example because they still have PROPERTY TAXES; just not State Texas — NOT TOPIC. Topic is get rid of PROPERTY TAXES NOT STATE TAXES. OK? OK. DUH.
By RCH
September 13, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
Dallas Be more specific.
By Jackie
September 13, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
@RCH
Your description of our attacking North Korea is not a factual statement. North Korea attacked South Korea and we responded. If the current invasion was not about oil, why do our troops guard the oil pipelines and oil fields? We get less oil from Iraq now because the insurgents continue to blow up pipelines. We do not have bases in Saudia Arabia and to think that we will only have a “few” bases in Iraq is an understatement. We have the world’s largest embassy in the Green Zone in Baghdad today. Who will protect those folks and guard the borders? I remember the initial purpose of the war was to find weapons of mass destruction, don’t you? Lastly, your contention is the surge is intended to buy more time for political reconciliation and if different factions must live in separate areas of the country, so be it! That statement in itself is a contradiction, so there is nothing this war has done for us but drain the country of treasure. I don’t believe our foreign policy is contingent upon the political machinations of China or India. I fail to see the validity of your statements.
By jbmlaw
September 13, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
How on earth did a discussion of a dry safe topic like property taxes morph into another moonbat assault on the war to kill terrorists? Chairman Ann, in her article today, catalogs the lies about the Iraq war, beginning with the run up and through this week. Only my conservative friends should read the article – our leftist friends will be insulted. http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=22374 I am comfortable that our Moveon friends need to compress the “ve” so it looks like a stylized “r.”
By RCH
September 13, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this
Another war started by a democrat and one we obviously didn’t finish properly was the Mexican-American War. Had Polk prosecuted that war to the fullest and occupied Mexico City we wouldn’t have all these taco benders overrunning us today. So add that blunder to your list of democratic accomplishments Jackie.
By lovelyliz
September 13, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
I have a lot of doubt whenever I hear of proposals to drastically change the tax code. They tend to grossly underestimate the actual cost of change or what it would take go guarantee the same level of tax $$$ flowing into the government. The don’t talk about what services will be cut by shortfalls.
The one thing that these proposals all seem to have is that once you look beyond the surface and the hype, you realize that the burden is again going to be heaped on the middle class.
By DebbieDoRight
September 13, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this
You have not addressed the totally inept examples you gave of the “unfair tax on services” simply because I can only assume you have no answer and you have no facts
Allright smart guy. Why don’t YOU give the blog some proven examples of how this no property taxes but sales taxes only would work in Georgia? I’ll wait around for your brilliant post.
By RCH
September 13, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this
Can you believe that Rudy Guliani is saying that illegal immigration isn’t a crime? He can go to hell as far as I’m concerned.
By Mrs. RepubLady
September 13, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this
Yes. Get rid of property taxes and the schools they pay for. Public education is a waste. My properties are mine and the government has no business taking from me to educate your children. Eight year olds can WORK, darn it! I want to KEEP what [interest] I earn! Children don’t matter unless their parents are good Republicans who pay for private school and use vouchers to deduct the tuition in full from their taxes.
By lovelyliz
September 13, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this
If you are talking about burdens to business, are you going to propose universal health care? Health care costs born by employers in this country put them at a global disadvantage when most of the companies in the industrialize world don’t have to directly support this due to their single payer systems.
I’m just saying.
By heehaw
September 13, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this
Chairman Ann?
Chairman Mao’s demon seed?
By jct
September 13, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this
Okay, if the state collects that tax how does it make government smaller and efficient? What is does is make the state bureaucracy bigger. It takes a way local control and accountability.
I can not remember who said it earlier but I will use his/her quote - it is easier to see your local county officials then to get an appointment with Glenn Richardson.
It’s too much big brother. What will the state do if enough taxes aren’t collected? Give to the rural areas and let the metro areas fend for itself like it does with transportation issues? We see how well that it working.
By DebbieDoRight
September 13, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this
Like the Germans, did not Iraq violate the terms of the first Gulf War agreement?
Since WWII; UN was established to be the go-between for countries who have treaty problems. When the US went to the UN requesting permission to strike at Iraq, the UN said NO. They, the UN, did not feel that Iraq was in serious violation of the terms of the first treaty.
If you like shifting the blame game lets look at Vietnam.
Shifting blame!!! Try telling FACTS!! How is telling the FACTS of what happened “shifting blame”?? FACT: Repuglican controlled Congress, Senate, President, Sec. Of Defense — if the war is unwinnable and a farce, Dumbya has only to look into his mirror to wonder why.
If we need to leave anywhere it is Japan and Germany just keeping bases that we need as a stepping stone to other parts of the world.
We can NEVER leave Germany alltogether because it’s part of the conditions set forth in the treaty. France and England also have bases in Germany — not just America.
By DebbieDoRight
September 13, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this
It was under Democratic leadership that we attacked North Korea and Vietnam. (Truman and Kennedy)
And we’re still in N. Kora, and VietNam was a ghastly mistake!! You think with all this history of past mistakes made by other administrations; your president, Dumbya, could’ve learned something from it!!
I guess it’s true, history really does repeat itself.
By jm
September 13, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this
jbmlaw@3:31 - Chairman Ann overlooked WMDs (or rather the lack of), mushroom clouds, greeted as liberators …
Plus, since as for taking Baghdad in 17 days, the US still does not have complete control of that city.
Gen. Petraeus strategy is 4 years late and still short about 150,000 troops. The country known as Iraq is broken and is not worth putting back together.
By Jackie
September 13, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this
@RCH,
You are reaching for some brownie points. The Mexican-American War was managed by Polk, you are correct. Do you realize the “Democrats” of that era are modern-day Republicans? Oops!!!!
By DebbieDoRight
September 13, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this
The main target of the surge is to buy time for the political unification of the country. If the population must live in three separate areas with shared governing power so be it. It has happened elsewhere; India, and China.Give them that chance
RCH they don’t even WANT us there!! Their PM said so on air to the world!! So basically, we are pumping money and lives into a big black worm hole in spaace.
By RMcConnell
September 13, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this
The state should end the property tax. After voting itself as a separate city many in John’s Creek received new high tax assessments from Fulton County. Often we hear of lawmakers in prominent people not paying their bills. This has become political and unfair according to who you know. It should be abolis