Home > Thinking Right > Archives > 2007 > September > 03 > Entry

Money, color in college admissions

At select colleges and universities, two chief considerations can be “color and money,” writes Peter Schmidt, a deputy editor at the Chronicle of Higher Education, in a new book on college admissions.

In an interview with the AJC’s Maureen Downey, Schmidt said the system is so flawed that children of Vietnamese boat people and West Virginia coal miners are considered advantaged for admissions purposes, while preferences are granted to African-American children of privilege, including the sons and daughters of physicians. That’s the color preference.

The money preference favors the children of legacies and of potential donors. Only about 3 percent of admissions at top-tier universities come from the most disadvantaged 25 percent of the population.

Schmidt estimates that 15 percent of the kids in the nation’s most prestigious schools aren’t there on academic merit. Some are athletes, others have political connections or are the children of donors, or are admitted as the result of other preferences. Others are the sons and daughters of school employees attending as a job benefit accorded the parents.

Are preferences unwarranted? Not inherently. Colleges do have a vested interest in building loyalty, and in attracting certain kinds of students, based on a particular skill. State universities have an interest, too, in creating a student body that reflects the state’s population and its regions.

My view of it is the same as my view of campaign finance: Put everything in the open so parents and the rest of us know the truth. Tell us, for example, how many students at the University of Georgia were admitted on the basis of academic merit alone and what the cut SAT scores were. Then tell us by race how many students were in the secondary pool, the range of SAT scores, and how many students were admitted. Add too, the reasons for preferences.

Preferences, too, should not be fixed. If a college is getting too many girls, some temporary preference may be given to boys. But point it out.

Keep records and keep them open.

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Comments

By Analchord.

September 3, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this

College candidates, who are US americans, should be able to read a map for admission to any university, sir.

Lets send maps to all the Repudlickan Senators who dont believe in science, but then, I repeat myself.

When the world was flooded, and Noah was floating around in an ark, the map was simply a blue piece of paper. The Repudlickan Senators dont think maps are necessary cause they think the world is still flooded by the great flood.

Imagine Noah getting lost and telling his wife, “Gimme the map”, and grabbing the clean blue piece of paper out of her hands, and going, “Okay, we were here, but now I’m not sure….I knew I shouldn’t have turned left at the wave….”

“Why dont you get out and ask directions?” cautions his wife?

“And just who am I supposed to ask? One of the sharks with frickin’ lazer beams attached to their heads? You go ask them if you know so much….”

We should all graffitti some maps on the back of the doors of mensroom stalls to reach the most Repudlickan Senators.

I wonder how many Repudlican Senators have made the Tidy Bowl Man/NOAH connection? Clear blue waters. Man in a boat. No maps needed in either the ocean, or the toilet.

Repudlickan Family Values and Evangelical Rebirthing are what makes the post 911 USA so great. Think of the trees we’ve saved by not printing maps!!! Why, the Repudlickans are the real heroes in global warming!

By WFC

September 3, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

ANALCHORD… lay off the drugs… that was incoherent.

By Analchord.

September 3, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

Well!

By jbmlaw

September 3, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this

Good morning all. The flaw with Jim’s proposal is that it would reveal the “preferred” candidates for what they are - “second class” candidates. Either Dr. Sowell or Dr. Williams - cannot remember which - has recently written several essays on the adverse effect of such preference programs on the “preferred” candidates. When sub-standard students are matched with more highly qualified students at the top colleges, the risk of failure rises greatly; those same “sub-standard” students would top performers at lower tier schools. That performance also has a direct effect on future prospects, and thus the non-academic admission preferences have the effect of harming the long-term prospects for their beneficiaries.

By Redneck Convert

September 3, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Well, it’s suppose to be a holiday for some reason or other, but not for me. The Baptists done cleaned out all the bars I take beer to. Must of been some powerful dull sermons Sunday.

I see My President is in Iraq. I can’t figure out why he has to sneak in like a burglar. Why he just don’t tell everybody he’s going and then show up to a military parade and such I don’t know. He says everything is going fine over there, so I guess there’s no way anybody could shoot at his plane and such. But he just keeps showing up as a big suprize. Sometimes I don’t know what to think. It’s for sure My President wouldn’t lie about how things is going. Maybe it was somebody’s birthday over there and he wanted to hold a suprize party.

Colledge is mostly worthless. I never made it out of the 5th grade and it never hurt me none. And I see all kind of UGA grads that couldn’t pour pi— out of a boot with the directions printed on the heel.

But if you are going to have it and make us hard working taxpayers pay for it, then let in people that are real smart. Not because they are part of Those People or maybe their dumbbell parents went there. Course, it’s diffrent for football players. You got to have the best players no matter how dumb they are. Loosing games just hurts too much. When UGA lost to Tenn. last year I was bound up for a month. Couldn’t go to the bathroom or do nothing, including You Know What. So if they are big and can run like the wind let them in even if they can’t finish a 1st-grade coloring book.

Anyway, pretty soon Sister Dusty will be sobering up and getting on here, so I better finish my beer run. Same with that lunatic TFTT. He will probly be telling us how smart English colledges is and how they don’t let nobody but smart people in. My guess is he never even got close to a colledge. Can’t spell or use squiggly marks or nothing. I guess he got started on the drugs pretty early. He needs to show up on one of them Just Say No commercials as a example of what can happen when you use drugs. Just watch how he turns today’s blog into a rant about Those People and Mexicans.

Have a good day everybody.

By Dusty

September 3, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

Jim Wooten,

I wish that we could go back to the time when academic preference was the only one considered in “higher education”. Since colleges and universities are supposedly the academy of higher learning, why not start with the ones who are capable of higher learning?

I don’t believe colleges and universities were ever meant to be donor offspring centers, athletic prowess fields, racially and gender selective centers and the equalization of all citizens beyond their capability to learn.

I think all citizens have the right to the POSSIBILITY of earning a higher education. Do well in high school. Go to college. Is that any different from government hiring practices? You don’t hire someone who puts up sheetrock to run CDC. Obviously, they are not qualified.

Admissions to institutions of higher learning should also admit those who have proven their ability to learn.

By Curious Observer

September 3, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

I fear my friend jbmlaw is wrong about the effect of preferences for admission to college. The risk is not failure, but a continuing decline in academic standards. College administrators are not so stupid as to permit only marginally qualified or unqualified to flunk out en masse. That would cost a college money in the form of lost tuition fees. Rather, faculty members will feel pressure to lower academic standards so as to pass that precious 70% of their students, or else endure the wrath of administrators.

The argument of administrators is always the same: if a faculty member has a relatively low pass rate (usually below 70%), he/she must be a poor teacher.

The effect of admitting unqualified or only marginally qualified students because of race or prior enrollment of parents is still pernicious. But it hits the reputation of the state’s colleges even harder than a mass failure of these students would.

By Lee

September 3, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

The day colleges began their affirmative action admissions was the day that their academic credibility took a nosedive.

That minority doctor who has your child’s life in his hands - did he get admitted to medical school on merit or did he get in to fill a quota? Might ought to get a second opinion…

Anytime you admit a student on any criteria other than academic merit, you open up a can of worms.

You would think all those Phd’s would be smart enough to figure that out…

By ATICO

September 3, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

Redneck convert:

You need to lighten up man, you sort of lost it when you bashed President Bush. Other than that you did well. There are so mnay undeserving students attending UGA that if there was admission transparency the state would emplode.

Running monkeys on the football field keep the idiots buying tickets and the cofers full.

By Analchord.

September 3, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

You’re both wrong. It’s teaching standards that have to be revamped.

I could teach quantum physics to preschoolers.

I could teach history to anyone.

I could teach a “D” student, with an IQ of 4 the electro-chemical implications of sin.

It’s in the teaching. Most teachers do understand the subject matter, they simply are poor teachers.

Teaching is an art you are born with. It’s actually quite rare, more rare than say a doctor who must only learn the latin names of the 391 bones we have in our bodies.

I think we should triple the wages we are paying teachers now. I nominate myself to develop the criteria to determine who should teach and who should not.

I have invented a test. If my education proposal is adopted, we will be number one in education.

Here is the exam for teachers who want to teach theology:

Question: How many gods do you see in your life.

A) One

B) Two

C) None

D) Infinity

E) Allah the above

This would weed out 99.9899 percent of the slackers who teach theology because they love god, not because they understand how to make theology interesting enough to want to study it.

I have developed similar tests for all of the known subject matter in education. Take History. History is man’s observation of man. Here’s the test for teachers:

Question: What is the truth about mankind?

1) The history of man is actually the history of bathrooms.

2) Nothing ever really happens. People just invent events so they can sell news. War really is a bumper sticker, in every sense of that process and application.

3) History implies time, which doesn’t exist except as a mental construct, which means that history is the same five minute monologue on a repetitive loop. “They came over that rise, and we tried to talk sense into them, but they needed killin’ so bad we had to oblige ‘em.”

4) A human body requires space which motivates justification for conspiracy of movement. (go west young man…but there are indians there…..just get them to sign this)

5) the orbital nature of all observable structures in the universe implies that we must necessarily repeat the same narrative when we describe man, no matter what, when, where, or who. (The general couldn’t attack until the field of battle had time to dry, his soon to be dead army would’ve ruined their shoes, and thus for want of global warming, a war was lost.)

5) Man has only waited for paint to dry in his entire evolution of existence. Everything else is hooey.

By jim

September 3, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this

Are you people nuts? College has always been for people with the money to afford it. The founders of the University of Georgia and all the other colleges didn’t intend for everyone to be admitted on “qualifications” but to be admitted on qualifications and the ability to pay. Lot’s of smart kids haven’t gone to college because they couldn’t afford to and lots of dumb kids have gone to college because their parents could afford to pay. As for the complaints of kids getting in because of a large donation, if the parents can afford it, more power to them, it’s their money let them spend it any way they want. No big donations, no good faculty members. Chemists aren’t going to teach for $35,000 per year when they can make five times that salary in private business. Politically correct admissions are just as stupid as all other politically correct garbage. College isn’t for everyone and unfortunately it isn’t for some because they can’t afford it. Life isn’t fair, there aren’t any rules or time outs. Play it as it lies.

By crawfordonian

September 3, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

Academics should be the only determining factor in determining College entrance. Let’s face it, most people coming out of high school are not college material. We should be steering these people toward technical college. There is a real need for blue collar workers, that is not being filled. I feel that all students should be tested in sixth grade and the children proven to be academically able can enroll in the more rigorous schools and then go down the pyramid. If your ability lies in pipe fitting, at least you will be able to have a good job. This is how other countries approach their school systems. It is how the USA ran schools in the old days. You can not force a square peg into a round hole. Why leave the smart children in a class where they are bored, so that the teachers have to dumb down the material for the children who are not capable of difficult courses.

By Analchord.

September 3, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

Bush in Iraq! The War is probably winnable.

What does win mean?

What does winning the war in Iraq mean?

It means that we will be there for at least 50-75 years in ever-increasing troop strength to secure the commercial future of that coveted region.

There will always be al queda, sunni hotheads, and renegade shia militia, but we’ll take the tragedies in stride, do our best to minimize them, but overall, simply babysit that country with no exit strategy. That’s a win, it really is, and the cost will be in the trillions, and our grandchildren will pay the taxes needed to finance the occupation.

Bush’s idea that a stable Iraq will stabilize the neighboring countries is also correct. Syria, Jordan, Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia will evolve toward some hybrid democratic/theocratic/pizza-delivered-in-30-minutes-or-it’s-free coalition of states, a new opec monster, but at least it wont be armeggedon.

Israel? As the new opec monster grows……..wouldn’t want to be an Israeli citizen in ten or so years.

Bush may have some intel that is classified about the inevitability of the destruction of the state of Israel, and babysitting Iraq may have been the desperate attempt to delay the destruction of Israel.

By Analchord.

September 3, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

crawford and jim both must not have read wooten’s blog. he addressed both your objections and the question before bloggers now had advanced to this:

Can our country exist peacefully as two societies divided between the have-nots and the half-wits?

Please advance the discussion. I dont write the rules, Wooten does, so dont bash me, sirs!

By Analchord.

September 3, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this

What if they gave a war and nobody came?

What if Sen Craig gave a hand signal in the mensroom and nobody came?

I think the spectre of a senator railing about lifestyle choices and winning elections by assuaging his constituents prurient interests is so abhorrent to americans that a mass exodus from the senate is due.

We finally are going to vote the bums out.

Hooray for america! Hooray for americans!!!

When you think about our leaders enriching themselves because they persecute and disenfranchise (via bribed legislation) large blocks of demography in the form of millions of human beings, it should motivate you to vote..

By Analchord.

September 3, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

Look at our leaders. Ted Kennedy. How did he forgive himself for a drunk driving fatality? I could never get over it. I just couldn’t. He shrugged it off, and moved on with his career.

He is an embarrassment. The white O.J. Looking for Mary Jo’s killer at yacht clubs.

I demand the resignation of Ted Kennedy effective noon tomorrow.

By Ed

September 3, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

One thing I did learn in college is that you can always argue inequities on both sides of an issue. Yes the repulicans are screwing it up. However, it wasn’t that long ago that while Bill Clinton was getting a blow job in the White House companies were cooking their books and we had a fake economy. The end result was thousands of people loosing their pensions and life savings. It wasn’t that long ago that Democrats couldn’t get far enough away from Big Bad Bill. If one person get’s into college because he can play football but can’t put two sentences together that is an inequity. Because someone gave a lot of money to a university and thier child gets in ahead of mine I have the right to be dissapponted. If we have a teacher hand out tests to athletes with the answers attached that is a problem. The question really is are you going to let it bring you down or are you going to find a way to be successful anyway. By the way if Hillary becomes president what do we call Bill. How about the first pimp.

By Analchord.

September 3, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

Have you ever tried to find a good man? Did you succeed? Are there any good men left?

I thought JFK was a good man. Turns out he was promiscuous, and doped up.

He had debilitating back pain from his WW2 service.

Also, if you look at his performance at the bay of pigs and the cuban missile crisis, we were lucky to escape camelot, he nearly triggered a holocaust. There was no need to set up the rube goldberg machine countdown to doomsday with Kruschev over degrees of proximity. (an issue that we were more guilty of than they were. we had missiles everywhere pointed at mother russia)

He’s not the good man I worshipped as a kid.

Ike? good man? I thought so, until I heard a report about the opening hours of the Bulge. He was no where to be found, in a bunker with Kay. (PBS history of the bulge, 1988) We were leaderless for a few hours into the battle. Patton was at a shad bake, (no wait, that was Picket at five forks in front of petersburg.)

there are no good men? Are we all unworthy? have we all compromised to secure security itself? would we bribe our way out of death itself?

Custer didn’t know that the Indians had repeaters. Kennedy didn’t know that the soviet-in-charge in cuba thought he had permission to launch tactical nukes at the US armada off his beaches.

How close did good men come to destroying the world for good reasons? For god. For duty. WW1 was caused by god, duty, and alliances.

Just wade right in. We are at the mercy of ourselves, and there’s not a good man in the bunch.

I think custer’s last stand is the history of mankind repeated over and over. It’s got everything you need to know about man. There’s not one good man in the whole story, with the exception-proving-the-rule of Sitting Bull, who just happens to be the greatest american who ever lived.

TOP TEN AMERICANS in order from one to ten: Sitting Bull…. Lincoln……….benjamin franklin………… Curly……….. Jack Benny……….

how many is that

By Analchord.

September 3, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

Bill Clinton was a bigger disappointment than the Kennedy assassination. He totally ruined the institution of the prez. I thought he was the greatest man I ever saw until monica and then i realized he was all gloss. a shallow man indeed.

Is there a good man left?

By Redneck Convert

September 3, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

Well, I might of knowed Sister Dusty would get on here and slam me. She knows good & well I use to be a sheetrock hanger and so she used it to talk about hiring a CDC boss. It just goes to show how vicuous that woman can be.

I see people are still going on about Sen. Craig. Trying to make out like Republicans are a bunch of preverts. Well, we may have a few more gays and adulterers than the Dems, but leastwise we ain’t taking our pants off in the White House. We do it outside of that place, like a godly person should.

Anyway, no matter what you libruls say about us, Clinton done it first. And don’t forget about this Kennedy that drove that woman into the water and then went and took a nap.

You keep bringing it up and we’ll keep digging it up. We’ll go back as far as we have to to get back at you.

By Analchord.

September 3, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this

That’s right, Redneckconvert, there are no good men. You would think there’d be one we could point to and be sure that he was a good man, but there isn’t

We could vote the bums out of office, but who would we vote in? More bums?

What’s the use? See, if Monica had stayed quiet, then Bill woulda gotten out of that mess. Yet, on the other hand, if monica had a bigger mouth, bill wouldn’t have stained her dress….see life is a paradox.

A good man left?

By Analchord.

September 3, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

Seeing Jerry Lewis is ripping me apart. Ed McMahon and Norm Crosby too.

We just get old and croak. that’s all that happens. That’s the real history of man. we age too quick and we fall apart in front of our eyes, and the young people take over, pushing at us all the way.

get out of the way , old man!!! Jerry’s standup act is still funny. Ed’s announcing still terrific. Norm Crosby still endearing.

But this year is different. It’s sadder. It’s like seeing the end of an era on all fronts.

We are witnessing quantum change in America.

By peaches

September 3, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

This blog is just analchord having a discussion with himself. Not very entertaining and certainly not enlightening. I could get this listening in on the drunk tank in Austell on Saturday night. No thanks.

By Major Richard Head

September 3, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

If we can keep the present security situation stable in Iraq we can have our significant drawers down.

However, if the situation deteriorates, we may have to leave our drawers up.

And if the situation gets very bad, we will have no choice but to change our drawers.

By getalife

September 3, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

This is hilarious

Geez.

By Analchord.

September 3, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

Well!

By Cheese & Whine

September 3, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

Look at all the hyenas on the left scamper around and btch about Bush visiting Iraq. They’d have btched had he not stopped during his Aussie trip, so what’s the point other than being a bunch of b_tchers like they always are. Animals.

Don’t forget to catch Democrackunderground’s comments on veiled death wishes on Bush for that trip. Disgusting demoncrap pigs from hell is all they are. GOD how disgusting.

By Analchord.

September 3, 2007 5:19 PM | Link to this

Bush was very brave to go to Iraq. His daylight landing proves things are better there. Imagine a free, peaceful Iraq. Just what oil production and supply needs!!!

Then we can drive ourselves silly in the biggest baddest hummers you ever saw. Aw, it’s gonna be great.

Cant Bush run for prez again, cant we like vote to change the law on that? Maybe like a pre election mandate vote or something?

Four more years! Four more years!!

By Analchord.

September 3, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

Bush’s Biography comes out tomorrow. I’ve got 10 copies reserved at my Barnes and Noble. I’m going to give them as Xmas presents and of course, I’m putting one in my favorite bathroom stall at the atlanta airport, just in case some certain neo-wipes run out of TP.

bwa

By Michael

September 3, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

I am a lawyer and am pretty good at it. I also hate it. If I had not gone to college I would likely have continued working in the construction trades and been happy. College, the media, and peer pressure have a way of making you go for the glamour degrees but, at least for me, they require way too much work than I was ever prepared to put in. Yes I am good at lawyering, but I hate it. Give me a 9 to 5, weekends off, and $60k per year (and yes, I could have made that in construction trades).

By Analchord.

September 3, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

I need a good lawyer. I want to sue a newspaper. Does anyone know a lawyer? Is there a lawyer in the blog?

By jm

September 3, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this

Dusty@10:28, hate to burst another one of your bubbles but the world you describe never existed. About the only constant throughout the entire history of higher education has been if you had the money, you could get in to the college of your choice.

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