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DEL.ICIO.USHealth insurance for the little guys
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Gov. Sonny Perdue Tuesday unveiled a proposal to spend $50 million in state and federal money to help small businesses provide health insurance coverage for their employees. The plan has to be approved next year by the General Assembly.
It has already drawn criticism from the chairman of the House Rules Committee, Rep. Earl Ehrhart (R-Powder Springs), that it’s a new entitlement, so passage is not a slam-dunk. There’s plenty of time to examine the ramifications and the wisdom of taking on a new spending program that does have a powerful impetus to grow.
A Perdue proposes it, small businesses with 50 or fewer employees that don’t now offer health insurance could get taxpayer-subsidized coverage. Taxpayers would pay a third, the employers a third, and the employees a third. Provision would be made to keep employers and employees from dropping coverage. Employees would have to have been uninsured for six months before becoming eligible for the subsidized coverage. And they couldn’t participate if a spouse had an insurance option at his or her place of work or if they earned more than 300 percent of the federal poverty level. That’s about $30,600 for an individual and $62,000 for a family of four.
A number of questions and concerns arise. Tomorrow I’ll have a chance to sit down with some of the experts to get answers. Feel free to raise your concerns or offer your questions. This is a major new direction for the state — not nearly as sweeping as health care coverage proposals in states like Massachusetts and Wisconsin. Wisconsin is considering “free” health care for everybody. But the idea of giving public grants to some private companies and not others to help pay their operating costs, even if done indirectly, is a giant step for Georgia.
Comments
By Analchord
August 8, 2007 8:26 AM | Link to this
It was so hot today that Islamic Americans went to the aiport just for the strip search.
I would hate to see the Perdue Plan. What’s the deductible? That’s the big problem. I pay 1400 a month to Blue Cross, but there’s a 1000. deductible. That’s such a ripoff it makes me want to hire a witch doctor… oou EE oou ah ah ting tang wally wally bing bang
It was so hot today that a witch confessed just to get thrown in the well.
By Jeff
August 8, 2007 8:41 AM | Link to this
Government should be SHRINKING. (PERIOD!).
Governemnt should NOT be growing. (PERIOD!).
I will oppose this measure at all costs - and I work in a small business!
Paul/Tancredo ‘08!!!! (BTW Mr. Wooten, for any true fiscal conservative, this is the ONLY viable ticket out there! Look at what both said Sunday, and you’ll realize why I want Paul as POTUS and Tancredo as VP.)
By Redneck Convert
August 8, 2007 8:44 AM | Link to this
Well, I’m just flabbergasted that ol’ Sonny would go commie on us. Putting up a new welfare program and such. If I wanted a Democrat in the office I might of voted for the Big Guy in ‘06. A fambly that makes $60,000 is rich. They don’t need a guvmint handout to get doctored. I know a fambly that makes that much and has 12 kids. The man of the house keeps complaining about his back. Well, no wonder. He ought to find something else to do with his spare time. It ain’t natural and that stuff is suppose to stop oncet you been married 3 or 4 yrs. The guy is a prevert. Maybe the health plan would pay for him to get snipped.
I just hope the plan has plenty of handouts for the insurance cos. We can’t go getting around Private Innerprize. The insurance cos. would go broke and besides Those People would just flock to the doctor office. People in the insurance cos. would loose their job and show up on the welfare line or on Peach Care or some other dole that wastes my tax money on people that ought to have the goodness to just die if they get too sick. And they would all be lined up to get my beer truck job. It goes against Nature and it will put alot of good preachers out of work.
Anyway, I know that what with jbmlaw and tftt and Sister Dusty and Van and RCH and other godly conservatives arguing against it, the plan won’t get nowhere. We need to stay where we are and go backwards even. My buddy Jim Earl says Sonny is being smart. What with the libruls pushing for free health care, Sonny wants to jump in first and get a good Private Innerprize plan in place before the libruls take over the gumint and make us hardworking taxpayers pay for everybody’s doctoring. Leastwise that’s what Jim Earl says.
Course, Sonny’s plan might help some people. It might pay for TFTT to go to a head doctor to get hisself fixed. We wouldn’t have to see so many of his rants about black crime and illegals and such. It would be funny to see TFTT make sense for a change. Instead of acting like a maniac full of hate.
Well, I hope Wooten done banned this GHT guy. He got no right to go slamming us godly Christian Southreners.
I got some good news for all of you. They don’t have enough school bus drivers and I might apply to be one. It pays $16 per hour and the hours is good. This beer truck driving is hard work and I’m about ready to take it a little easy. Anyway, I know you would all feel better if I was driving your kids to school. Wish me luck.
By jbmlaw
August 8, 2007 8:46 AM | Link to this
Good morning all. I find little decent to say about corporate welfare in any form. Nevertheless, if we determine that there MUST be some government incentive for people to get health insurance, why not go the most direct route – an unlimited deduction, or even a credit, from state income taxes?
I am persuaded that most of our uninsured obtain the status through volition – mostly young people who know they are invulnerable, and decide to forego a wasteful expense. If our goal is to increase participation in the pool, and we are willing to rob taxpayers to ensure we achieve the goal, let’s give a nonrefundable state income tax credit for, say, 50% of any non-company (unsubsidized) post-tax expenditure for health insurance. Would require an adjustment for any 1040 Schedule A deductions used for state tax, but you could require one to elect between straight deduction or filling out the complicated form for credit.
By jbmlaw
August 8, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this
Dear Analchord @ 8:26, was that Dave Seville in his pre-chipmunk days?
By jbmlaw
August 8, 2007 8:58 AM | Link to this
Clarification in my 8:46 commentary, I propose credit or deduction for personal state income taxes, not corporate.
By JK
August 8, 2007 8:58 AM | Link to this
It’s nice that Gov. Sonny wants to offer a band-aid for the wound. Hey, when you need one, you need one! But until we address the great big razor blade that bleeds the pockets of Americans into the off-shore, tax-sheltered coffers of the insurance and pharmaceutical industry manipulators, then we’re gonna need more band-aids. Until we can restructure a system that’s designed to exclude millions of people, got any Sponge Bob strips?
By JK
August 8, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this
It’s nice that Gov. Sonny wants to offer a band-aid for the wound. Hey, when you need one, you need one! But until we address the great big razor blade that bleeds the pockets of Americans into the off-shore, tax-sheltered coffers of the insurance and pharmaceutical industry manipulators, then we’re gonna need more band-aids. Until we can restructure a system that’s designed to exclude millions of people, got any Sponge Bob strips?
By Analchord
August 8, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this
There was a pop ditty song in the 1950’s that was #1 with a bullet on the radio. It was called the Witchdoctor. The chorus was a doo-wah-ditty type variation of onomatopoeia, that is, spelled phonetically, “oo ee oo ah ah ting tang wally wally bing bang”.
If you dont know this, then you must be a foreigner because that song was big time. Sprechen ze deutch, Adolph?
Sprechen ze Farci, Ahkmed?
I knew you were a jihadist in sheeps clothing……ew. (goat porn reference)
By Curious Observer
August 8, 2007 9:10 AM | Link to this
So jbmlaw wants a state income tax credit or a deduction to compensate people who don’t make enough to pay state income tax in the first place. And whoop-de-doo! With a maximum 6% tax rate on personal income, a filer would get back at most $6 for every $100 paid for insurance premiums. That ought to set covered people up just fine! Now all they have to do is come up with the money to pay the premium. Once they get that refund check, they will be in hog heaven.
I encourage jbmlaw to keep writing. We will have people like him to thank when the Democrats sweep the national elections next year.
By Analchord
August 8, 2007 9:14 AM | Link to this
It was so hot today that Barry Bonds fanned.
By Jeff
August 8, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this
Curious:
I would put forth that if Ron Paul gets the Republican nod for President, the Democrats don’t stand a CHANCE next year.
The Dem’s biggest sticking point (actually, their ONLY one) is Iraq. Paul NEVER voted for it - something neither Hillary nor Obama can say.
And he’s a Jeffersonian, which will win over the TRUE conservatives.
Matter of fact, maybe he can create a Jeffersonian Party and run (and win) with it….
By Reality Check
August 8, 2007 9:22 AM | Link to this
Ron Paul???????????
LMAO! There is a .0000001 percent chance that Ron Paul will win the Republican nomination.
There is a .00000000001 percent chance that he would be elected.
Conservatives have a warped sense of reality.
Ron Paul…..President…..LOL
By Curious Observer
August 8, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this
Jeff—even Redneck Convert has a better chance of winning the presidency than Ron Paul, who is nationally regarded as a nutcase and who appeals only to a few idealists. If that’s all you have to pin your hopes on, you had better hand your wallet over now and spare Congress the trouble of enacting revised tax laws in 2009.
By Jeff
August 8, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this
RC:
Paul is the ONLY one that doesn’t force most Americans into a “lesser of two evils” situation when voting for Prez.
We had the “lesser of two evils” situation when it was Bush v Gore in 2000 - and you see where that got us.
By Jeff
August 8, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this
Curious:
So straw man and bandwagon attacks are all you have against him?
Interesting….
By Thomas Jefferson
August 8, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this
Jeff, please don’t make me get up and come after you.
By Analchord
August 8, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this
Reality Check: that’s what they said about Pat Paulson, and look what happened. Nixon…Carter….Reagan….Bush 1….clinton….bush 2…..
all comedians!!
By jbmlaw
August 8, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this
DearAnalchord @ 9:07, on our more important issue today, it was Dave Seville. http://www.tsimon.com/chipmunk.htm
By Analchord
August 8, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this
D’oh! I did not know that. I thought the chipmunks covered it later. I’m not a German spy, the chipmunks wore leiderhosen, right? Didn’t David Seville have a short skinny moustache? Wasn’t the big chipmunk holiday hit called, Oh Tannenbaum?
Ich been Ein Berliner!!!!
By AmVet
August 8, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this
Paul is the ONLY one that doesn’t force most Americans into a “lesser of two evils” situation when voting for Prez.
Very true, Jeff. Most Americans have been so thoroughly manipulated by the two parties that they just live for the lesser of two evils.
CO’s dubious claim that he is regarded as a nut case aside, my take on Ron Paul is that whenever I’ve seen him interviewed, he makes a lot of sense.
True, he is vilified by most of the partisans in the GOP because he dares utter words as a Republican that scare them. For instance:
We cannot continue to allow private banks, wasteful agencies, lobbyists, corporations on welfare, and governments collecting foreign aid to dictate the size of our ballooning budget. We need a new method to prioritize our spending. It’s called the Constitution of the United States.
The war in Iraq was sold to us with false information. The area is more dangerous now than when we entered it. We destroyed a regime hated by our direct enemies, the jihadists, and created thousands of new recruits for them. This war has cost more than 3,000 American lives, thousands of seriously wounded, and hundreds of billions of dollars. We must have new leadership in the White House to ensure this never happens again.
The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/border-security-and-immigration-reform/
The biggest threat to your privacy is the government. We must drastically limit the ability of government to collect and store data regarding citizens’ personal matters.
Call him a nut case, if you will, but when I watched the GOP debate recently, he was the ONLY man on that stage, to me, worthy of considering supporting.
The others are ALL GOP neo-cons, to one degree or another, and a vote for any of them is a vote for more of the same and NO real change in this country.
And that is the very last thing we need.
By @@
August 8, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this
Wow AmVet, does your 9:56 mean that you’re finally ready to “give up” on Ralph Nader and push Paul?
Push…Pull, you’re torn aren’t you?
By Dusty
August 8, 2007 10:15 AM | Link to this
Well, I’m trying to think deep thoughts here this morning. But between lederhosen, chitty chitty bang bang and 100 degree heat (almost) my mind keeps wandering. (No, it is not chronic.) I’ve got enough fans going to blow Atlanta to south Georgia.
On the other hand, paying even part of small business health insurance sounds like raising taxes any way you put it. I do not want taxes raised. My family does not want taxes raised. My neighbors do not want taxes raised. My friends do not want taxes raised. Did I miss anyone?
By Analchord
August 8, 2007 10:15 AM | Link to this
That’s so wrong, Amvet. Ron Paul keeps repeating, “We have to leave Iraq now. Just leave Iraq with all our troops tomorrow. Go. Kaput. That’s all she wrote And no excuses!”
He’s playing to the lowest form of demabloggery. Leaving Iraq would be like leaving three year old prodigies alone with a roomful of battery powered sex toys and matches. Any adult responsible for those three year olds would be prosecuted and jailed and throw away the key.
No, the reality about Iraq is that we can never leave.
The Saudis think they’re running of oil, and now cant be trusted.
By AmVet
August 8, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
I’m a bit surprised @@ deigns to talk to the lowest life form on earth, and though I’ve been called numerous things on these blogs, conflicted is certainly not one of them!
Just in case you haven’t read the news lately, Mr. Nader is not running for office. Yet. If and when he does, it will be relevant to me.
As he is not, I am consistent in my approach that NONE of the Democratic or Republican front runners, so far, has shown ME nearly enough of the right stuff, as I see it, to earn my support.
Cong. Paul is irrefutably the only candidate, on either ticket save Gravel, that represents fundamental change in Washington - something I favor a great deal. And am somewhat perplexed why more Americans do not.
I have some mild interest in Richardson and Hagel, but, the latter, is of course, not in the mix.
By Mrs. RepubLady
August 8, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
I do not want taxes raised. My family does not want taxes raised. My neighbors do not want taxes raised. My friends do not want taxes raised. Did I miss anyone?
No one that matters, Dusty. SO WHAT if other people go bankrupt from medical bills or die of curable diseases, or if the lack of affordable preventive care leads to poor people losing their little hourly jobs while waiting in the tax-subsidized emergency room for 14 hours? That’s THEIR problem. We don’t want our taxes raised, and ONLY WE MATTER!
By Analchord
August 8, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this
It’s so hot that Cheney put a man-sized refrigerator in his office.
By @@
August 8, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this
AmVet:
Your principles will relieve your conscience, but they won’t get either of your guys in the Whitehouse.
I appreciate your principles AND your vote for Ron Paul or Ralph Nader, should he decide to run.
By jm
August 8, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this
well, for those of you talking about Ron Paul, I would suggest you also check out Senator Mike Gravel (if for nothing else, some of his bizarre commercials). FYI, he supports the fair tax.
By AmVet
August 8, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this
Thank you, @@.
My political franchise is one of he greatest joys I have as an American.
I know this won’t endear me to my GOP friends, but when I was 17 I voted for George McGovern!
(I eschewed the witty GOP slogan to “Don’t change Dicks in the middle of a screw, Vote for Nixon in ‘72!”)
As I was already on active duty in November of that year, the 18 year old limit was waived!
The point is that I don’t jump on bandwagons. I cast my vote for who I admire the most and think is the best man/woman for the job. Sometimes that is a very difficult choice for me,and I’m sure, many others.
I thought long and hard about it, but in 1984 I did what I absolutely did not want to do - I voted for Reagan/Bush against Mondale/Ferraro. I swore it would be the last time I voted for the “lesser of two evils”.
So today, whether he/she is “electable” or not, for me, selecting a candidate based on this, is way down my list. It is something I just won’t compromise on.
BTW, if you care to share it, who are you now supporting/endorsing?
By Analchord
August 8, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this
It’s so hot that earth is now the third coal from the sun.
By Jeff
August 8, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this
I checked out Gravel’s site.
Of the 6 issues on his home page, I agree with him on 3, ambivalent on the fourth (at least he isn’r proposing all out war, though he is proposing intervening), and completely disagree with him on the remaining two.
And those two are killers for me. (“Global warming” and Hillarycare)
By Jackie
August 8, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this
Ironically, the Repubs are talking about Universal health insurance today. Hillary Clinton’s attempt to put together a federal/state system of Universal health care was met with derision. It appears, the neo-cons have recognized the fact that EVERYONE needs access to affordable health care, not the Emergency Room at the nearest hospital the poor use for their health maintenance.
By jm
August 8, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this
Personally, I think every person in the state should have access to at least the same health insurance as state employees.
By Laugh_of_the_Week
August 8, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this
No one that matters, Dusty.
By Jackie
August 8, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this
Another Dubya knife in our back was reported today. The Homeland Security Department met in secret, without bothering to speaking with any of the state Emergency Management Agencies and drew up plans for disaster recovery. It is reported that ALL states are livid because it shows the level of incompetence displayed in the Katrina disaster with the proposed plans. We pay these people for this!!!!!!!
By Dusty
August 8, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
I’m sorry but I do not think that people are dying in the USA because they can’t get any health care. One cause might be the total ignorance on how to secure healthcare.
We all know the rules about ER care, anyone can get it. Almost every county has a public health system with almost free shots, prenatal care, etc. and directions on how to get more. Hospitals make allowances for patients who cannot pay. Hospitals like Grady have outpatient clinics where you pay on an income scale. Social Security has a disability designation after investigation. And almost everybody in the country except the homeless have credit cards which they buy things they cannot afford.
I am sure there are people with huge medical bills due to chronic and malignant illnesses. Maybe there should be an insurance stipend for them but they are not a large percentage of the country’s population.
To sack what is good independent med care for guaranteed mediocre care for everyone is not a good idea. Socialized medicine is not the answer.
By Phil Bredesen
August 8, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this
Tennessee has already done this. Keep an eye to the north to see how it works out for them.
By DebbieDoRight
August 8, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this
Wooten: But the idea of giving public grants to some private companies and not others to help pay their operating costs, even if done indirectly, is a giant step for Georgia.
A giant step for Georgia? Or a giant bulge in SonnyDoo’s pockets?
Jackie: Ironically, the Repubs are talking about Universal health insurance today. Hillary Clinton’s attempt to put together a federal/state system of Universal health care was met with derision. It appears, the neo-cons have recognized the fact that EVERYONE needs access to affordable health care, not the Emergency Room at the nearest hospital the poor use for their health maintenance
True. But you gotta give them credit, they know that they’re days are numbered and they’re running scared — they had to think of something that might appeal to the masses, hence they may be able to keep their seats next year. They only pretend to be stupid, deaf, dumb and blind; and only when talking about Iraq or Bush.
By Dustbuster
August 8, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this
“I’m sorry but I do not think that people are dying in the USA because they can’t get any health care. One cause might be the total ignorance on how to secure healthcare.”
So what are you going to put on their death certificate? They died of terminal ignorance?
By BS Aplenty
August 8, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this
I’d like to believe that you can get a reasonably priced health insurance policy for catastrophic diseases/accidents but with high enough deductibles ($50,000?) to make all routine, and even some non-routine medical expenditures, the responsibility of the family.
However, there is no free lunch and I am resolutely against paying for the ofttimes poor health practices of others. If my neighbor wishes to live without regard to his health, I’m OK with that - so long as we each get to pay for our own health expenses.
In lieu of univeral coverage, I freely pass on the longevity advice of my doctor: keep your BMI below 24, eat plenty of fruits and veggies (for those stunning bowel movements) and get routine aerobic & strength exercise - other than that realize you are mortal.
By jbmlaw
August 8, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this
Dear AmVet @ various times, I haven’t voted against Mike Gravel since around 1972. I cannot believe our resident friends-in-opposition have not embraced the only true candidate for change, vegan Dennis Kucinich; why did you leave him off your honor roll? It will not endear me to you, but we must be the same age, as I voted for Nixon at age 17. As you have surely noted, I do not join bandwagons, I start them. As Jackie, the other Jew-baiter who also has no idea why there is a “neo” in her “neo-con” epithet, correctly notes, all decent conservatives are talking about Hillary-care. Of course, we only talk about it to find a way to stop the irreparable damage it will leave in its wake; maybe like trying to stop Katrina, but I’ll let the leftists stay to drive the school buses.
Dear jm @ 11:40, brilliant and concise; at risk of frightening you, I totally agree.
By Dusty
August 8, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this
No, Dustbuster, 12:29
You would not put terminal ignorance on a death certificate any more than you would put drug abuse, alcoholism or obesity. You put down the effect of these things known as a diagnosis of the failure in a human body.
Terminal ignorance may be the cause of death but it is not a medical term of condition.
I could make a political comment about this but I won’t.
By kco
August 8, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this
Governor Perdue’s plan is an entitlement for the Health Insurance Partnership for Georgia. The Gov would channel a captive market and a steady income stream to the Health Insurance Partnership, but the insurers will assume no responsibility for patient care and will do everything possible to keep the money.
Employer-sponsored benefits are provided with pre-tax dollars, while individuals must pay with after-tax dollars. This works for no one except the insurance companies, because employers are finding the cost of benefits exceeds the tax savings. Levelling the tax playing field would help both employers and employees bargain for affordable insurance.
Insurance, pharmaceutical companies, and the government have created a gargantuan patient-churning industry that is addicted to overkill and does more harm than good.
You don’t get good value for your money with insurance. I choose not to have it, and I sincerely hope Medicare (insurance, not health care) implodes before I’m 65.
In fact, I believe Americans should be allowed to opt out of government-mandated benefits like Social Security and Medicare. Those of us who opt out should be exempt from payroll taxes.
Until that happens, the governor should spend on services rather than insurance. Taxpayers would get better value.
Katharine Otto, MD
By The BlogFather
August 8, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this
Sonny only proposed this insurance help because he knows the General Assembly wouldn’t pass it if Hillary Promised to coverup for the next 25 years.
We aint nevah gonna git no insurance no how from nowhere for nuthin’.
Sonny is a clever political manipulator and this is another move in his reelection campaign. He can blame the assembly!
Notice how the proposal is just modest enough to almost be affordable and almost seems reasonable.
Wooten points out the entitlement nature of this proposal in his second paragraph.
But none of you officer-fraggin’ uber-pundits ever read Wooten, instead you glance at his article and then you just cant wait to click your little mouses and make cheese.
That’s why the discussion NEVAH gits advanced.
That and your generally overall inferior debating skills.
and low intellect. There should be an IQ test to earn the right to blog here.
Jim? I could draw something up by next week and we’ll git rid of the einsteins…up 2 U, pal.
By Jackie
August 8, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this
@jbmlaw
You seem to forget that your pronouncements of my being anti-Jewish DOES NOT WORK; you are trying to use those words as a pejorative. It does not work and it does not change the fact that you are the only clown in a one ring circus. I do believe that your approach to any discussion that you have “is lower than whale gravy” Is that anti-Jewish?
By Curious Observer
August 8, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this
Sonny is wasting his time and our money.
Any idiot can foretell that a national health care plan will be enacted in 2009, superseding anything the General Assembly does.
The only issue is the parameters of the national plan. The Republicans will hold out for including their buddies/campaign contributors, the insurance companies and HMOs, as carriers of the plan, just the way they held out for Big Pharma in Medicare Part D—with a guaranteed profit. The Democrats will want universal coverage under a government-run plan, a la Medicare.
The public pressure for a national plan is simply too great for politicians of either major party to ignore. A compromise will be the outcome. The Republicans will use their Senate filibuster power to avoid a purely government-run plan, and they will see to it that any government-run plan option will be priced in such a way that their buddies/campaign contributors the insurance companies and HMOs can be competitive. In the end, a confused public will be left with up to 30 plans to choose from, replicating the mass confusion accompanying Medicare Part D enrollments. And because of this insistence upon inclusion of the insurance companies and the HMOs, the nation will be robbed of the opportunity to effect real cost savings.
By Jackie
August 8, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this
@Dusty,
There is documentation that shows hospitals are “dumping” ER patients instead of providing treatment. Do you remember the woman who died on the ER floor in LA?; do you remember where the police was called and found where patients were given preliminary cursory exams in LA, then put into ambulances and driven “across the tracks” and put out on the streets?; you do remember the conversation on this blog about Grady and it’s lack of funds to treat the ER patients? Wonder why those things don’t qualify as non-treatment?
By deegee
August 8, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this
Apparently BS Aplenty works for my HMO.
If you’re fat, press 1 If you’re constipated, press 2 If you’re fat and constipated hang up and call your clergyman.
By Mrs. RepubLady
August 8, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this
Jackie, please stop picking on Dusty! Why don’t those things qualify? Because THOSE people don’t matter! Don’t you get it? People like Dusty and I matter because we are good, Bush-loving white Americans who had the good sense to hold our stuff for ransome until we could marry someone with a job and a future. WE don’t want to pay more taxes, and if THOSE people die, WE don’t care! What we need are just more good godly Republicans like Dusty who’ll tell the truth!
By Lily Toad
August 8, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this
jbmlaw, here I come to the rescue — Kucinich in ‘08!! Urge your Congressional Representative to support House Bill 676 Universal Health Care, proposed by John Conyers and Dennis Kucinich.
By jbmlaw
August 8, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
Dear Jackie @ 2:00, I deem you anti-Jewish only because you knowingly use an anti-Jewish epithet to attempt to slander your opponents. Not that there is anything unusual about a national socialist also holding anti-Jewish sentiments. One betrays his heart by his language.
By Curious Observer
August 8, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
Our starting point is not the individual, and we do not subscribe to the view that one should feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, or clothe the naked. Our objectives are entirely different: We must have a healthy people [of the eugenically fit] to prevail in the world.
It could have been said by jbmlaw and Dusty, but in fact it was stated in 1938 by Joseph Goebbels.
By AmVet
August 8, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
Jackie, I asked for a clarification yesterday but have received no reply. And I realize I am asking the wrong person here, but as best you can figure out, what in the dickens is this about the term neo-conservative being anti-Semitic? Yesterday he posted some extremely cryptic comment about Pat Buchanan that I could not begin to decipher.
And I think I”m pretty good at breaking down a lot of the political code words. But for the life of me I cannot make this connection.
Kucinich is the only true candidate for change?
I’ve noticed a heavier reliance on hyperbole than usual, but again this is not accurate.
And as for starting bandwagons, I assume they were at least temporarily derailed with Tricky Dick’s demise in August of 1974.
To the extent that neo-con is offensive to jbmlaw it is only because he gives some special power to that word.
I do not understand the umbrage.
And Jackie, you may be glad to know that apparently he used to think better of me than you, but now who is actually less thought-of is apparently up for grabs!
By jbmlaw
August 8, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
Dear AmVet, try Wikipedia. Not “neoconservative” which is wholly respectable, but “neo-con,” the anti-Jewish epithet.
Dear Analchord, I have to escape early today, so I’ll leave you with another vital question: what is the connection among Robin Hood, Huckleberry Finn, and The Purple People Eater?
By Jackie
August 8, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
@AmVet
My humble opinion of jbmlaw leads me to believe that he thinks by using the term “anti-Jewish”, he will prevent me from speaking to him frankly. He made the inference that the term neo-con was coined by Pat Buchannan as an affront to the Jewish community. Pat Buchannann does not agree with the policies of Israel and the pro-Israeli lobby. jbmlaw believes that speaking against those policies and practices are anti-Jewish; he tries to use that term as a pejorative. I have found that reading what he says carefully, reveals the depth of his thesis. In my opinion, he uses his rhetorical skills and obfuscation to muddle issues; his circular logic are full of ellipses - start and stop without making a complete sentence. He is trying to intimidate so that he can frame the discussion. I tell him over and over, his strategy and tactics DO NOT WORK!
By BS Aplenty (Responds)
August 8, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this
deegee
Sorry, I didn’t mean to impinge on your inalienable right (emphasis on the illegal alien) to be fat & irresponsible.
I don’t work in the insurance industry.
Curious O
“…if anyone shall not work, neither shall he eat.” II Thessalonians 3:10
Tough group, those Christians, promoting starvation of the shiftless.
By AmVet
August 8, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this
ONE guy concocts this idea that the term neo-con is anti-semitic, so the rest of the world has to play along?!!!!
This is a remarkable, no preposterous, stretch, even for you, jbmlaw!
Common American usage dictates that this assertion is ridiculous.
Some of those identified as neoconservatives refuse to embrace the term. Barry Rubin, director of the Global Research in International Affairs (GLORIA) Institute, argues that the neoconservative label is used as a pejorative by anti-Semites: “neo-conservative” is a codeword for Jewish; however, there are neoconservatives who are not Jewish, so while some may use the term, or “neocon”, to refer to Jews, a neoconservative is not necessarily Jewish, and the term is not always used negatively. Some claim that just as anti-semites did with big business moguls in the nineteenth century and Communist leaders in the twentieth, the trick here is to take all those involved in some aspect of public life and single out those who are Jewish. The implication made is that this is a Jewish-led movement conducted not in the interests of all the, in this case, American people, but to the benefit of Jews, and in this case Israel.[20]
Critics of Rubin might argue that because neoconservatives aren’t necessarily Jewish, this would be an instance of invoking “New Anti-Semitism” and that it would be anti-Semitic to identify support for Israel with the Jewish people; according to Norman Finkelstein, it would be anti-Semitic “both to identify and not to identify Israel with Jews.”[21]
By Lily Toad
August 8, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this
If someone objects to a term, why continue to use it? I was baffled as to why neocon was considered anti-Semitic, so I looked at Wikipedia. I don’t think Jackie was using it as an anti-Semitic term, willingly or not, as accused, but if the term can be interpreted that way, I think another word should be used. For an innocuous example, people who are big fans of science fiction hate for it to be called sci fi. They prefer SF. Don’t ask me why, I don’t know, but if that’s the term they prefer, why not use it?
By catlady
August 8, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this
How is it that our governor claims to be a Republican? Looks like he is taking a lesson in pandering from our president and Congress. Perhaps he will propose that taxpayers help fund people like me getting a new car at subsidized cost?
By Words Have Meanings
August 8, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this
I agree with Lily Toad. If “neocon” is offensive, why not try some other terms? Here are a few of my favorites: fascist, freedom-hater, pig, big fat oxycontin radio wh0re, self-serving hypocrite, liar-lawyer-mirror-for-ya, Bushlover, Cheney-type, bigot, blowhard, wingnut, pervert, chimpy, monkeypants, trash.
By catlady
August 8, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this
How is it that our governor claims to be a Republican? Looks like he is taking a lesson in pandering from our president and Congress. Perhaps he will propose that taxpayers help fund people like me getting a new car at subsidized cost?
By The BlogFather
August 8, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this
There is an issue that needs to be addressed, and that is the bloggers who have several windows open on this blog at closing so they can comment past the posted hours.
This is totally illegal. You cant post past 6 pm. I dont make the rules.
So if you cant say it in the ten hours that this blog stays open, then you cant say it.
I hope You all heed the need to recede at 6:00 pm.
By Alternative
August 8, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this
can we add Gestapo-boys to that list of neocon-name replacements?
By Jackie
August 8, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this
@Lily Toad
When in discussion with someone and you allow that person to frame the discussion by using terms that have no validity and is deflective of the truth, it allows the other person to move the conversation away from the stated discussion to my defending the other partys’ terminology. As you may know, no one can ever prove a negative.
By Dusty
August 8, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this
Well Jackie,@2:15
I guess if you search all over the USA you can find a few ERs that dumped patients. That is why it was in the news. It was unusual, not to mention illegal. Perhaps you do not know that by law ERs cannot turn patients away.
Grady may not have sufficient funds to keep their services ongoing but I have not heard of them “refusing patients”. There is no doubt that they are very busy.
Sometimes emergency ambulances are sent to another hospital which can better handle certain emergencies. That is not “refusing” but making best use of available health care. Example: Grady has the best burn unit in the state and severely burned patients come to them from all over the state, passing other hospitals.
I realize that you are making the case for socialized medicine or national healthcare. But don’t start by demonizing emergency rooms. Millions of lives have been saved in ERs by dedicated personnel. Perhaps you should talk to those patients instead of trying to make Democratic ideas more palatable by condemning those who work diligently to save lives.
By The BlogFather
August 8, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this
The only negative construct that cant be proved is the negative square root of pi.
Other than that, negatives are easy to prove, you simply need a camera, a drunken stewardess, and the three of the five knights who say, “Neh!”
By BS Aplenty
August 8, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this
kco, md
Welcome, fellow conservative.
By The BlogFather
August 8, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this
There are less than 40 minutes till closing. Dont even think about posting your amazing insights past that deadline.
By Jackie
August 8, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this
@Dusty,
I am well aware of the Hill-Burton Act that is designed to allow everyone to receive medical treatment in an emergency. You, are trying to pretend that all emergency rooms don’t have implied “quotas.” Talk to any nurse or health professional in the city and they will explain to you how it is done. No health insurance, poor service, if any. For you to think that ambulances go to “other” emergency rooms because of the expertise of the hospital is not true. Think of the word “emergency.” I love the way you try to use those epitaphs to paint me as being a socialist or liberal. I could /could not be either, but, it does not belie the fact that your statements are not factual. For you to say that I am trying to infer that I am trying to demonize health professionals is laughable. Many of my friends are nurses, doctors, hospital administrators, member of boards of hospitals, police offical, fire offical, emergency medical person. I truly enjoy blogging with you neo-cons; it gives insight into your thought processes. As for socialized medicine, it would be benefical to all of us if we had social medicine available.
The Repubs in the Iowa debate are talking about having Universal Health Care.
Hmmmm! Puts a crimp in your argument.
By JD
August 8, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this
An answer to the question earlier on why Americans are not allowed to opt out of Social Security and Medicare - Americans can opt out of Social Security and Medicare. Mormons are the best example.
Mormons do not believe in state sponsored welfare and I believe are charged by the LDS church to prepare for their future by their own hand.
This belief allows them to opt out of the SS and Medicare systems.
By JD
August 8, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this
Words Have Meanings @4:25,
Other than the Bush and Cheney references you have listed synonyms for Democrats.
By The BlogFather
August 8, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this
There are now less than fifteen minutes of legal posting left. Anyone caught posting after legal hours will be reported to Mr. Wooten, and of course, the time of your crime will be seen along with the moronium you post.
Point of order.
By The BlogFather
August 8, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this
Robin Hood , purple people eater, huckelberry finn
all three made Marion?
theme songs were sung by the same person?
TV shows?