Thinking Right

By Analchord

August 1, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

Jim’s column today is a well written gripe about a problem we all hate: Lobbyists and the Assemblymen Who Love Them.

or

Why good things happen to Bad Lobbyists.

Bravo, Jim!

By RCH

August 1, 2007 9:05 AM | Link to this

“ATLANTA (AP) - Georgia voters will be required to show a photo ID at the polls for a special election in September, following several years of court and legislative battles, the secretary of state said Tuesday. Opponents claim the photo ID law will disenfranchise minorities, the poor and the elderly who don’t have driver’s licenses or other valid government-issued photo IDs. Supporters say it is needed to prevent voter fraud”

You cannot drive without photo I.D.,you cannot cash a check without I.D., nor buy alcohol. The State of Ga. even agreed to send representatives to the homes of the aged and poor to accommodate those individuals with I.D’s. Our most cherished right as citizens is the right to vote. That should be protected. We spend millions on making sure that all votes are counted and machines work properly, yet we don’t care about who casts those votes. What is the problem?

By catlady

August 1, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this

My concern about these voter IDs is this: that eventually folks can use them to estabish their right to be in this country. Unless these voter ids are infallible biometrics that have been obtained by showing incontrovertible proof of residency, they are worthless, and may do more harm than good. And we all know that the technology is not cheap, and won’t be hauled around to places for the elderly and poor to magically produce their government paperwork to have the biometric ID verfied and made. It is like the places that ask for my driver’s license as ID. I want to ask, “Do you know how easy it is to get one of those? I may actually be Atilla the Hun.” If the desired effect is REALLY to keep ineligible folks from voting, we need to buy the whole cow, not just the “moo”.

By jbmlaw

August 1, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this

Good morning all, an insightful essay today.

My only experience with lobbyists all has been with public companies, all of whom have an obvious (and generally straight-forward) interest, whether offensive or defensive, in whatever legislation is under consideration. In an earlier life I had a really sharp friend in the state legislature, and enjoyed a few visits and “free” meals. Certainly seeing the manufacture of Bismarck’s sausage was an intellectual joy, especially when my well-grounded friend would tell me the inside story, beyond what was apparent.

There is some purported restriction at the Federal level, to prevent agencies from lobbying congressmen, recent suggestions of pretty obvious violations by FNMA and FHLMC, and long-standing similar political activities by PBS notwithstanding. One’s knee-jerk reaction would be to pass another law, to prohibit or restrict public entity lobbying, as if nobody ever circumvents such touchy-feely laws. (Great example: you notice how every five years Democrats push some new and meaningless ethics legislation, like that passed yesterday in the house at the Federal level. While distracting us with the do-nothing new laws, they added new layers of concealment on earmarks, breaking their promise to the voters.)

I suspect there is a natural tendency by legislators to accept academics at face value – I know I probably would. I suppose the truism for today is, “Everyone has an agenda.” Our obligation, as voters, is to ensure we elect people smart enough to know that.

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this

Our most cherished right as citizens is the right to vote. That should be protected. We spend millions on making sure that all votes are counted and machines work properly, yet we don’t care about who casts those votes. What is the problem?

Stop kidding yourself. In the past 5 years how many people in the Nation have been confirmed of committing voting fraud? 120. That’s it. This is just another republican enhance witch hunt to produce mass hysteria.

Frankly, I hope this backfires BIG TIME on the repuglicans. Grass root efforts now are underway to make sure that the very people repuglicans are trying to disenfranchise by this “voter fraud” lie; will be the most dominant force at the polls.

I guess they’ll have to go back to padding the ballot box with “absentee ballots”; like they’ve always done.

By Dennis

August 1, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this

Mr. Wooten writes, “My years around the General Assembly convince me that public employees exert enormous influence over legislators. They do it a couple of ways. One is to control information and to frame it for legislators in a way that leads them to the conclusion the staff wants.

“The other way public employees control policy is by filling the hall of the Capitol with lobbyists who represent their associations.”

In effect, these public employees use the same tactics that are used by big corporations.

Mr. Wooten goes on to say, “Often it’s the big spenders from the private sector who draw the attention. But on most days, the really influential lobbyists are there, directly or indirectly, on taxpayer money asking for more.”

Perhaps the accuracy of that is in the eye of the beholder, as Mr. Wooten then contradicts himself when he states, “The money spent for tickets to sporting events, meals and lodging doesn’t come from taxpayers, not directly at least, but from donations to the system, schools and their foundations.”

There seems to be a little contradiction here as the second statement says the fees for lobbying by the University System, comes from private donations.

But, once again, “…these public employees use the same tactics that are used by big corporations”,

If my “public money” is going to be spent, let it be spent on lobbying for the “public” and for the public, not on giving tax breaks for big corporations that could stand on their own…IF they would.

You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.

By jbmlaw

August 1, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this

One parenthetical note, whenever I see the term “sleazy” describing an industry, that usually means there is a huge profit potential – seize the day. Maybe it is time for me to look into subprime lending? Would our leftist friends agree that field is “sleazy?” (In a previous life I represented a “legitimate” lender facing a regulatory complaint because we refused to lend more money to a woman who could not even make the monthly payments on what she already owed. We should have referred her to a sub-prime lender, but that was before those guys were visible.)

By apr

August 1, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

http://www.atlantapetrescue.org/wwwver2/petpages/medium/medium.htm

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this

Catlady: “Biometrics testing”? The time of Big brother is closer than we think.

By Redneck Convert

August 1, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

Well, I might of knowed my tax money was being used to get more of my tax money. And the colledge people are the most worst about it. They do things that ain’t worth a tinkers damn for most people but they want more money to do more worthless things. It takes a good old GA boy that don’t have no colledge degree but got elected to the GA House to see thru all this stuff and decide how much money to give the colledges.

I never got out of the 5th grade and it never hurt me none. From what I can see it don’t look like Wooten or TFTT or jbmlaw or Sister Dusty or @@ drunk too deep from the edumacation well neither. We need to cut back on paying out good money so a bunch of kids can set in a colledge classroom and turn into libruls. We already got enough of libruls coming in from the Northren states. We don’t need to turn out more. Just put the kids to work to make money to buy their own trailer and pickup.

I’m awful happy to see that Those People will have to come up with a picture ID card to vote. That ought to keep Those People like old grandma or grandpa that don’t have a drivers liscense or nothing and can’t get nowhere to get a picture ID away from the polls. Maybe we will finally get our two House seats back. If the Supreme Court gets the guvmint off of our back like they did with school busing a few weeks ago we can get back to the way things use to be here in the South. Back to godly ways and letting good Christian white people decide how everything ought to be.

Anyway, I’m all for what Wooten says. We need to use the colledges to teach the students to stay away from You Know What. Its the best birth control there is. And we need to hand out the money to make sure the colledges teach good Christian conservative things. Like no abortion and no race-mixing and no welfare and the 10 Commandments posted everywhere.

We don’t need no colledges lobbying for money so they can teach godless ways. Lets go back to how it was when Talmadge was governor. Fire colledge professers that are librul and cut back on the money if they do things we don’t like. We need to return to Southren ways. That’s my opinion and its very true.

By RCH

August 1, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

Debbiedoright

“Grass root efforts now are underway to make sure that the very people repuglicans are trying to disenfranchise by this “voter fraud” lie; will be the most dominant force at the polls”

The State of Ga. has gone to the extreme to allow all “eligible individuals to vote. “Disenfranchised”, the new code word for non-eligible voter.

By @@

August 1, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

Well Jim, like I said yesterday “I’m a turnip when it comes to pork.”

I am an honest turnip though. Nine months ago I was cutting my grass at the road. I picked up an envelope. On the envelope was the name of the local high school, a coach’s name and the amount $1,400.00. I open the envelope and there inside is $1,400.00.

I call the local high school and ask to speak to the coach. The coach returns my call. “Come and get your envelope and $1,400.00” I say. “I’ll be here all day and evening, my address is……”

Her reply? “Could you bring it to me at the school?”

I respond, “NO, I have no reason to come to the school, but I’ll be waiting for YOU to pick up the cash.”

Like I said Jim, that was nine months ago, I’m still sitting on the cash and envelope. Waiting, just waiting for the opportunity to be an honest turnip. I’m assuming that the money came from booster club members. They’ll probably end up rutabagas.

I could deposit it back on the roadside.

Anybody want my address?

By GodHatesTrash

August 1, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

Why are you rednecks always whining about taxes?

It’s taxes that pay for your and your little b-astards’ foodstamps and your Medicare when you need to get treated for all those STDs you animals catch.

The little bit you pay in Federal liquor and beer tax (face it, the only taxes you filthy rednecks pay) comes back to you about a thousand-fold. Hell, most of you are gawdamn thieves - go steal your beer off Redneck Convert’s truck - whaddya say, Redneck, help your buddies out?

Trash.

By Joe

August 1, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this

EVERY THING UNDER THAT GOLD DOME IS FOR SALE. JOBS, APPOINTMENT TO BOARDS EVERYTHING. WE HAVE A CITIZEN FROM INDIA WHO HAS DONATED $80,000 TO DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES AND GUESS WHAT, HE GOT APPOINTED TO THE DOT BOARD, WITH ADVANCE INFO ON ALL ROAD PROJECTS.

By jm

August 1, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this

rch@9:38 - think some of the state of Georgia’s efforts might be related to the fact that under the Civil Rights Voting Act they (and a few other southern states) are required to by law (which was recently renewed again). If you are that paranoid at voter fraud, try going after absentee ballots.

By RCH

August 1, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

jm

Absentee ballot fraud, thats a problem that needs to be addressed also.

Paranoid no, just amazed that such a simple requirement could be so difficult. I hope the “disenfranchised” don’t drink, drive, cash checks, rent, etc…..

By Analchord

August 1, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

New Topic.

What is the mission of US troops in Iraq?

By harold

August 1, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

harold missed the part where donations equal taxpayer money

maybe the donors do also pay taxes, but donated money is not tax money

along with that abstinence only education to prevent teenage pregnancies, we should implement “honesty only” education to prevent crime. get to the thugs when they are young and convince them they should be honest and never steal. that’ll work!

By Analchord

August 1, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

harold, What is the mission of US troops in Iraq?

By Analchord

August 1, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

RCH, what is the mission of US troops in Iraq?

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

RCH: Don’t hate. Don’t get angry because the repuglican con game is going down the drain. “You can fool some of the people some of the time”…..etc. etc. etc.

By jm

August 1, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

rch - there is no law that I am aware of that requires id to drink, cash a check or pay rent. Those are requirements put in place by vendors.

By Analchord

August 1, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

jm, what is the mission of US troops in Iraq?

By Analchord

August 1, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

I ASKED WHAT IS THE MISSION OF US TROOPS IN IRAQ!!!

By RCH

August 1, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

DebbieDoRight

I guess law full now equates with hate. If you want eligible voters to vote you hate, if you want illegal aliens deported you hate, if yow want criminals to serve their time you hate, and on and on……..

By harold

August 1, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

the mission of the US toops in iraq is to tread water and keep getting killed until Dubya presidency is over and the next president can withdraw them and take dubya’s blame for the loss/failure. repbulicans will spend 2 years blaming failure on democrats in hopes they can take back congress and then 2 years later the presidency. that is the exit stragety and the plan to shirk responsiblity and get back in control

By jm

August 1, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

analchord - ask Dusty, she has ALL the answers about Iraq.

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

Why isn’t Wooten and RCH angry about the welfare for dead farmers scams?

You’d think that at least RCH would be up in arms about his “tax dollars” being wasted in such a blatant way!! Why the way that he and Wooten carries on and on about PeachCare, Grady and the lottery proceeds for education programs; I just KNEW they’d be hot under the collar about the farm welfare scams. Amazingly however, I’ve heard very little about it from them! Go figure!!

By deegee

August 1, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

Thanks, JW for confirming my suspicions. Our Georgia elected officials are too stupid to read and comprehend a proposal, and too weak/corrupt to ignore special interests. If we didn’t have the lobbyists leading us then who else would do it?

By JK

August 1, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

“Abstinence-only education” is an oxymoron. D’OH!

By RCH

August 1, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

Jm The purchase and consumption of alcohol requires proper, legal photo I.D. So does employment. The opening of a checking account requires it. The others mentioned are vendor imposed. My point is that it it is almost impossible to function in this society without it. Then why is it to much to ask at the voteing pole?

By Analchord

August 1, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

Harold, you have defined the conspired design of the political rehabilitation of the Republican Party, not the mission of US troops in Iraq. The administration has never put such a gloss on the strategic spin of the geo-political mission in Iraq as they have with this new thread about 2009 and the success of the surge. See how complicated and minute the details for a withdrawal are becoming? We are like a high wire act, the Wallendas, with fourteen brothers all balanced on one guy holding a long pole. I think someone is going to throw a banana peel on the wire and run away laughing. (oh the humanity)

What is the mission of US troops in Iraq?

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

DebbieDoRight I guess law full now equates with hate. If you want eligible voters to vote you hate

RCH — If 120 people in the past 5 years have been confirmed of committing voting fraud nationwide then the law and the stance by the repuglicans is nothing more than political grandstanding, posturing, and a way to stop “likely” democrats from going to the polls. PERIOD. Where is the rampant voting fraud that repuglicans were supposed to dig up? Where is the deliberate abuse and circumventing of the voting system taking place? It’s just bushsh#t, why keep pretending anything else? To save face?

PS: If you’re so concerned about “lawfullness” then why haven’t you said one word about the totally unlawful acts of your president, vp, sec. of state, and atty. general? Ooops that’s right — unlawful only pertains to the poor and the democrats; not to the repuglicans.

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

What is the mission of US troops in Iraq?

To die for oil.

By time for the truth

August 1, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

Glorious news about the brilliant GA Voter ID law. Despite all the vile shrill black racebaiting and the endless liberal lies and screeching we finally have a law that protects the integrity of the ballot box. Its overwhelmingly corrupt demoNcrats who abuse electoral law. Blacks and illegal leeches being the worst offenders. Along with long dead (sadly never enough dead that is - not voter fraud perpertrating) demoNcrats voting, and convicted felons who should be barred from voting in corrupt demoNcrat run counties all over the fruited plain. At least this will act as a deterrent to demoNcrat dishonesty and voter fraud.

Its a damn shame we can’t use the superb, long overdue voter id law to stop nasal whining self absorbed yanKKKees from voting in GA too. This unwanted interloping maggot ridden unwashed northern filth is only down here because they can usually hire cheaper strippers like the lying black wh ore who falsely tried to lynch the innocent white Duke lads after it serviced several men for money and then out of pure black racist spite falsely cried rape a second time.

Watching the psychotic aggressive hysteria of the treasonous cut and run child molestor Mrs Oedipus-NAMBLA on here is just too funny. Obviously its badly missing its queeralicious lover Mrs JM Karr. YanKKKees are by far the worst child rapists and abusers. as NAMBLA damn well knows - which is why after it was kicked out of Georgia at gun point by the GBI it went straight back to the far left paedophile paradise of VT where child rapists are usually just let off in the despicable vile restorative justice courts.

inbred rednekkk needs to demand payment from the Aryan Nation for letting them use it as their sexual plaything!! Hell its ‘bout the ONLY way inbred can afford to feed its crystal meth moonpie habit and pay for its fiery cross workshops secretly held in Little Five Points.

inbred is no more a beer truck drivin’ man than sick willie kkklinton is innocent of rape or ted kkkennedy is innocent of DUI murder!!

I hope to christ that curious peeping tom - a.k.a. canus not camus the turgid book writing dead froggie towel head lover very swiftly gets a smart dog like this - (with an even better aim)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291687,00.html

By Analchord

August 1, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

DebbieDoesDallas, what is the mission of US troops in Iraq?

By jm

August 1, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

rch - no, the only requirement to purchase and consume alcohol is that you be at least 21 years old.

By Curious Observer

August 1, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

Wooten is fond of suggesting that public agencies and institutions are just so many hogs at the public trough. Having started my career as a teacher in the University System of Georgia, I think I’m qualified to discuss the funding mechanism as a prime reason that the system needs to lobby aggressively.

The problem is partly that the legislature requires proof that the system is already overburdened before agreeing to provide additional funds. I recall being assigned to teach a class in an overhang between two buildings because all the existing classrooms were fully occupied. Restricting enrollment was not an option for a new unit of the University System, and the projections of likely enrollments were stingy at best. The college was not funded for acquiring temporary classroom buildings—trailers. The solution was a new classroom building, but that solution and its funding were at least two years away.

And the overcrowding meant that classrooms were bulging with students—way beyond a teacher/student ratio that would promote learning and individualized attention. Just try teaching 70 students the basics of English composition in an environment that might be suitable for cocktail parties but not for learning. The funding mechanism did not change in future years; it was still based on the previous year’s enrollment.

I suggest that if legislators want to be relieved of lobbyists for public institutions, perhaps they might want to consider funding according to projected rather than current utilization. Looking backwards is seldom a sound underwriting procedure, except perhaps for insurance companies. And, after all, it is rather shameful that institutions of education are forced to hire lobbyists to help ensure even rudimentarily basic funding from a legislature that ought to see a university system as a way out of the quagmire of ignorance for which Georgia is so renowned.

By RCH

August 1, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

* DebbieDoRight *

How many cases of “disenfranchised” voters has ever been proven? ZERO!!

By jm

August 1, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

rch - one other thing. With the exception of voting, every example you listed is a “privilege”. Voting is a right.

By Lily Toad

August 1, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

The purpose of US troops in Iraq is to establish a permanent US base in the Middle East to wield influence, secure oil, and extend Anglo-american colonization to the region.

By RCH

August 1, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

jm

Correction; Voting is a right if you are eligible. For example convicted felons, non citizens are not eligible.

By Lily Toad

August 1, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

The purpose of US troops in Iraq is to establish a permanent US base in the Middle East to wield influence, secure oil, and extend Anglo-american colonization to the region.

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

RCH: How many dead farmers on welfare, (subsidies) have been proven? 45% dang near half!! If I were you, I’d get into the farming business!!

Don’t get mad at me because your repuglican schemes didn’t work!!

By JK

August 1, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this

Correction; Voting is a right if you are eligible. For example convicted felons, non citizens are not eligible.

Gee, what a wealth of information you provide to all those people who slept through the third grade. Thanks, Sparky! Now explain to us silly southerners again how the “Jim Crowe” era of disenfranchising voters was never actually proven, willya?

By RCH

August 1, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

* DebbieDoRight*

Missed your point. By the way I am not a Republican. Sorry.

By Analchord

August 1, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

Lily Toad! Not bad. Wow. I’ve got no comeback. If you are correct, then are we no better than any warring nation out for conquests?

I keep saying that we aint nevah gonna git out of Iraq, even though we want to. We’re stuck there because the costs of leaving are greater than staying.

You’re saying that we are there forever because we want to be.

wow.

By RCH

August 1, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

JK I am speaking of Modern elections. In the last two presidential elections are that I heard was the disenfranchised voter. But after exhaustive investigation’s, not one case was proven. Once again, why is it so difficult to ask for picture I.D. to vote?

By Lily Toad

August 1, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Not only have millions been denied the right to vote since the beginning of this country’s formation (women, people of color, anyone who is not upper class, felons), but as recently as this century when people with names remotely similar to convicted felons (Florida in 2000), and residents of precincts without enough voting machines who were shut out when the polls closed, even though they had arrived well before closing time.

By jbmlaw

August 1, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

Dear Mr. Analchord @ 10:28, your mission, should you desire to accept it, it to make the cost of being an Islamist so expensive, that it will be preferable for them to find another job. On the day that the last Islamist is either killed or converted to a peaceful demeanor, your job is complete.

Dear Curious @ 10:53, you suggest, “it is … shameful that institutions of education are forced to hire lobbyists to help ensure even rudimentarily basic funding from a legislature that ought to see a university system as a way out of the quagmire of ignorance for which Georgia is so renowned.” I disagree. It is shameful that the university is so poorly regarded that the market will not support it. More subsidy does not cure such a problem; it just makes UGA the MARTA of colleges.

By JK

August 1, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this

RCH, define “proven.” Are you saying that if something isn’t “proven,” then it didn’t happen? It wasn’t “proven” that OJ killed Nicole. Do you think it’s therefore not even possible that he did? After Katharine Harris (R-Conflict of Interest) ordered the voter roles purged of felons in 2000, thousands of people reported being denied their legal RIGHT to vote on election day. Ooops! According to the news reports I googled (try it sometime), “intent” to disenfranchise was not proven. The actual incidences of denial at the polls were not in question.

By CJ

August 1, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

I agree with Jim that government or quasi-government institutions should not have to hire lobbyists to have access to State legislators. But unfortunately, with some of the weakest ethics laws in the country, it’s still pay-to-play in Georgia’s General Assembly.

Recent Republican attempts to rollback predatory lending laws, expand eminent domain powers for the benefit of foreign-owned Colonial Pipeline, and the multi-million dollar tax break customized for GulfStream are just a few examples of how many (not all) of our elected officials are more interested in serving those who wine and dine them then those who elect them.

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/030407/opinion_20070304004.shtml

By Lily Toad

August 1, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

RCH, are you denying that Florida purged the voting lists of people with names similar to felons? If so, you need to do a little more extensive research. Check out the following videos: “American Blackout” and “Unprecedented.” And not all states deny felons the right to vote.

By Analchord

August 1, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

jbmlaw. Thank you. Now I have a mission! Hi Mom!

I want to thank the little people who….BOOM! (another casualty of blog)

By Curious Observer

August 1, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

Much as I agree with JK, Debbie, and others about the Republican intent to minimize voting for progressive candidates, I also recognize the effort as futile. Write Georgia off as a factor in forthcoming presidential races. Moreover, aside from a couple of House districts, Georgia will continue to exercise its long-held prejudices and ignorance at the polls.

I look forward to the national 2008 presidential and Congressional races eagerly. Even the most fervent Republican efforts to disqualify voters won’t help the party. Progressives and moderates, fed up with eight years of getting shafted, will be ready to install a government that looks out for the people, rather than for corporations. Perhaps the neocons on this blog should start doing some stretching exercises, so that they will be ready to bend over and grab their ankles once a decent government takes charge of this country.

By RCH

August 1, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

JK

The justice department launched an exhaustive search into this matter and found no breach. Now doesn’t it make sense that mistakes and omissions may occur, like in Florida, but that was an error not “disenfranchisement”. Even more reason to have adequate checks and balances at the poles, including proving who you say you are to vote. Lily Toad You are correct, in some states convicted felons after appeals and expungement may vote.

By Van

August 1, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

Lily Toad,

Explain to me why felons, who have served their time behind bars, should be allowed to vote?

A convicted felon loses many rights that a law abiding citizen has.

In some states they can petition to have some rights restored, but others are harder to have restored. For example, the right to own a firearm is very hard to have restored.

Each state has their own set of criteria and regulations regarding the restoration of rights to released felons.

By RCH

August 1, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this

Debbiedoright,J.K.,

But again, not one of you has been able to define why proper identification should not have to be submitted in order to vote. Is there some hidden agenda that you have.

By time for the truth

August 1, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

The brainless PIG IGNORANCE of self absorbed left coast Americans never fails to enormously amuse me!! This shower of imbecilic colonial peasant sh!te is sublimely revealing just how moronic the average supposed football fan is out there in the freak show of Kalifornia!!

A NICE BIG EARTHQUAKE MIGHT JUST SHAKE THEM OUT OF THEIR CRETINOUS STUPOUR!!!

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/showbiz/article-23406626-details/Frustrated+Galaxy+fans+hold+up+’wanted’+posters+of+Beckham/article.do

If a player is out injured - he’s out because he’s not physically fit to play … DUH!!!

jeeeeeeeeeeeeeezus

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

Joke of the day:

Rumsfeld, in his first public appearance on Capitol Hill since President Bush replaced him with Robert Gates late last year, reiterated previous testimony to investigators that he didn’t have early knowledge that Tillman was cut down by fellow Rangers, not by enemy militia, as was initially claimed.

He told a House committee hearing that he’d always impressed upon Pentagon underlings the “IMPORTANCE OF TELLING THE TRUTH”.

LMAO!!!!

By Lily Toad

August 1, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

A felon who has served time has paid for the crime. After that time, why not be able to vote? Many state permit felons to vote once their probation is completed. If we want to rehabilitate ex-cons, why not integrate them into society? Why deny the right to vote forever to someone who is put in jail in his twenties for possessing drugs? Why deny the vote to someone who is imprisoned for writing bad checks?

By Iraqnaphobia

August 1, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

Is the surge working?

A political party gets itself in a bad position when military success for the nation is a ‘real big problem for us.’ The “us” in question is of course the House Democratic leadership. Voters generally want their politicians to root for the nation, not against it.

You can say that again about rooting for the enemy and wishing for failure to get support for your party. That’s pathetic. First the New York Times wonders, and now US News & World Report wonders about success in Iraq. Where did this sudden sway from print media Dem party negative talking points come from? Do they know something we don’t? No wonder Hillary can’t make up her mind which side to support.

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

Van: If I’m a convicted felon who has served her time, like…..maybe… that Enron guy who raped the company and stole all those millions; (what WAS his name?); after I get out, why can’t I vote?

I mean I didn’t lie about a WAR or anything; nor did I illegally wiretap anybody. Nor was I seen with a stained dress on, (which I put into a safe deposit box instead of taking it to the cleaners because it was just… YUCK)— so why couldn’t I vote? After you pay for the crime, (with the time), when do you stop owing?

By JK

August 1, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

Curious Observer (11:51), I share your hopes for a brighter future! However, my optimism does not equal yours, as I now believe there are literally no depths of corruption, deception, manipulation, and subversion of the Constitution to which the neo-fascists currently in charge are unwilling to sink. They have demonstrated this time and again. Soon their partner in crime, Satan’s financier from down under himself, will control all the media (not just Mr. Wooten’s mind) and there’s no telling how far the next feeding frenzy of fear will take us from the principles we once held dear. Color me cautiously optimistic, but vigilantly distrustful.

By Van

August 1, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

Curious Observer,

I agree, I can not wait for the next election cycle to get here.

I would like to see how the socialists, the lefties and the moderated react to this do nothing congress.

If the Congressional poll numbers get any lower, they will make Bush’s numbers seem victorious.

For myself, I plan to vote for the most conservative of the front runners. The more conservative, the better. Please, no offense to the libertarians, but they are a bit too far right.

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

But again, not one of you has been able to define why proper identification should not have to be submitted in order to vote. Is there some hidden agenda that you have

Why bother saying the same things over and over? We’ve visited this issue before on the this blog. It’s the law for now, so be it. However, look for the repuglican con game to get thrown back into their faces; with interest.

By Derrick

August 1, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this

With the declines in violent crime, the jails are being filled with nonviolent offenders, most of whom would be better served by education, rehabilitation, and maintaining connections with families than being isolated and being taught how to become more dangerous.

The number of drug offenders in jails and prisons has grown eleven-fold since 1980. The imbalance has reached unconscionable levels. In federal prisons, only 13 percent of inmates are there for violent crimes compared with 55 percent who are there for drug offenses. In 1980, only 25 percent of federal inmates were drug offenders.

In a system in which the prison-building boom demands fresh inmates, the percentage of low-level street sellers and couriers shot up dramatically. Even though Americans use illegal drugs at roughly the same percentage as their racial group, African-Americans and Latinos — because they have been easier to sweep off the streets than a suburban white coke snorter behind a fenced-in lawn — remain vastly overrepresented in the system.

Even though crime has gone down, the prison population has risen since in 1972.

Even though felons have served their time, the Supreme Court says states can still ban them from voting.

If you are to judge a nation by how it treats the lowest among us, the United States still refuses to take the highest road to democracy.

By Analchord

August 1, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

The Sunnis are reorganizing. They are BACK! They dont trust the Shia who they ruled for generations with an Iron Boot.

We are arming these Sunnis, who once ran Iraq.

They want to destroy the green zone, people.

Do you know this? Do you care?

What R words 4, when no 1 listens anymore, when no 1 listens that’s 4 sure!

When no 1 listens, when no 1 listens

what r words 4

By deegee

August 1, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

You don’t have to be a fútbol fan to understand that Beckham is useless waste of time and money, but it helps. Meanwhile, Cuauhtemoc Blanco just keeps getting better.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/soccer/fire/489348,CST-SPT-fire30.article

By jm

August 1, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

DebbieDoRight - if you mean Ken Lay, his conviction was vacated because he died (one way to get out if). Jeffrey Skilling on the other hand ….

By RCH

August 1, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

Iraqnaphobia

If like my “progressive** friends on this blog statement is true, and Iraq is the number one issue effecting the election, this observation is correct. The Democratic party will do anything to insure defeat of the perception of it to retain the majority in Congress and or win the White House. Victory in Iraq spell defeat for the Democrates.

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

I would like to see how the socialists, the lefties and the moderated react to this do nothing congress.

Wasn’t the previous Repuglican congress the one that worked the least in the 8+ years than any other congress in history? How much could they have accomplished if they weren’t at work?

(As said by a woman currently goofing off on-line while in another boring meeting).

By Anonymous

August 1, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

Then it’s a good thing “victory” in an illegitimate war is impossible by definition, isn’t it?

The war’s already lost; the only question is how many more lives we’re willing to waste on Bush’s arrogance and pride before we can get back to fighting terrorism.

By Van

August 1, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

DebbieDoRight,

If Ted Bundy was released from prison, instead of taking the big dirt nap, would you have allowed him to vote? How about Charles Manson, if he is ever allowed to be released, would you like him voting for a tough on crime candidate?

As a previous poster said, the Supreme Court allows states to set their own requirements. Why is that so hard to accept?

By jm

August 1, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

Van - if Ted Bundy and Charlie Manson were released from prison, having completed their sentences (no probation, etc.), I would not have a problem with them having the right to vote. To be honest, I don’t really have a problem with current felons having the right to vote.

By Lily Toad

August 1, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

Ted Bundy was a smart guy who had been to law school. I can’t imagine that he would have ever been released from prison, but let’s say he got paroled and was on medication to control his schizophrenia, by all means, let him vote.

Charles Manson, however, is a raving lunatic who worships Hitler. I don’t know that there is any medication that can help him.

By jbmlaw

August 1, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

Dear Analchord @ 11:50, thanks. The difference between someone like you, who has a clever sense of humor, and me with my stilted efforts, is that I think of all sorts of junk afterward that I should have included in my riff (e.g., “If your patriotic efforts are discovered, the chairman of the DNC will disavow knowledge of your activities…”) I think of the great routine from “My Favorite Year” where the comedy writer advises his love interest that everyone can either (1) tell a joke, or (2) play the accordion. After her failed efforts to tell a simple joke, he offers her a dollar, “for accordion lessons.”

Dear RCH @ 11:57, quote:

“Last week also brought fresh evidence that voter fraud is a real problem and could even branch out into cyberspace: • California’s Secretary of State Debra Bowen, a Democrat, reported that state-approved hackers had been “able to bypass physical and software security in every [voting] machine they tested,” although she admitted that the hackers had access to internal security information and source codes that vote thieves wouldn’t normally have.

• The Florida secretary of state’s office reported it had found “legally sufficient” evidence that some 60 people in Palm Beach County had committed voter fraud by voting both there and in New York state. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement has launched a formal probe. In 2004, New York’s Daily News found that 46,000 people were illegally registered to vote in both New York and Florida.

• Prosecutors in Hoboken, N.J., last week announced they are investigating a vagrant who was part of a group of voters observed to be acting suspiciously outside a polling place in an election last month. After he signed a voting register in the name of another man, he was confronted by a campaign worker and fled the scene. He later admitted to cops that he had been paid $10 to vote.

• Last week the U.S. Department of Justice recommended that an outside party be appointed to oversee Democratic primary elections in Noxubee County, Miss. In June, federal district judge Tom Lee found that Ike Brown, the Democratic political boss of Noxubee, had paid notaries public to visit voters and illegally mark their absentee ballots, imported illegal candidates to run for county office and manipulated the registration rolls.

“But the most interesting news came out of Seattle, where on Thursday local prosecutors indicted seven workers for Acorn, a union-backed activist group that last year registered more than 540,000 low-income and minority voters nationwide and deployed more than 4,000 get-out-the-vote workers. The Acorn defendants stand accused of submitting phony forms in what Secretary of State Sam Reed says is the “worst case of voter-registration fraud in the history” of the state.

“The list of “voters” registered in Washington state included former House Speaker Dennis Hastert, New York Times columnists Frank Rich and Tom Friedman, actress Katie Holmes and nonexistent people with nonsensical names such as Stormi Bays and Fruto Boy. The addresses used for the fake names were local homeless shelters. Given that the state doesn’t require the showing of any identification before voting, it is entirely possible people could have illegally voted using those names.

“Local officials refused to accept the registrations because they had been delivered after last year’s Oct. 7 registration deadline. Initially, Acorn officials demanded the registrations be accepted and threatened to sue King County (Seattle) officials if they were tossed out. But just after four Acorn registration workers were indicted in Kansas City, Mo., on similar charges of fraud, the group reversed its position and said the registrations should be rejected. But by then, local election workers had had a reason to carefully scrutinize the forms and uncovered the fraud. Of the 1,805 names submitted by Acorn, only nine have been confirmed as valid, and another 34 are still being investigated. The rest—over 97%—were fake.

“In Kansas City, where two Acorn workers have pleaded guilty to committing registration fraud last year while two others await trial, only 40% of the 35,000 registrations submitted by the group turned out to be bogus. But Melody Powell, chairman of the Kansas City Board of Elections, says Acorn’s claim that it brought the fraud in her city to light is “seriously misleading.” She says her staff first took the evidence to the FBI, and only then Acorn helped identify the perpetrators. “It’s a potential recipe for fraud,” she says, noting that “anyone can find a voter card mailed to a false apartment building address lying around a lobby and use it to vote.” Ms. Powell also worries that legitimate voters who were registered a second time by someone else under a false address might find it difficult to vote.

“In Washington state, [Democrat] King County Prosecutor Dan Satterberg said that in lieu of charging Acorn itself as part of the registration fraud case, he had worked out an agreement by which the group will pay $25,000 to reimburse the costs of the investigation and formally agree to tighten supervision of its activities, which Mr. Satterberg said were rife with “lax oversight.” ” http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110010400

Dear Van @ 12:18, no offense taken – I am disenchanted with the national libertarians myself. I expect to vote conservative also and, like you, I am optimistic about the next round of elections. Even though the numbers are stacked against us in the Senate, I think we will take both chambers again. The Iraq news is broadly positive (witness the op-ed in yesterday’s NY Times), the economy continues to run strong, unemployment remains low due to tax cuts.

The leftists took absolute control of the Congress, and will have an even worse record this time next year than did the late unlamented previously-Republican Congress. They will attempt, via nonrenewal, to allow the largest tax increase in the history of the world; wouldn’t that be great for the economy? Nobody other than a committed leftist will fail to discern the problem with their economic theory there. The leftists will nominate their most widely-detested candidate, as the other two are not ready for prime-time (man, what do you think about a guy who says he will not bomb a self-proclaimed enemy of the US, like Iran, but will bomb a putative ally, like Pakistan? Forgot to reinsert his brain.)

By RCH

August 1, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Once a felon has payed his debt to society, a felon should have his rights restored. Especially the right to vote. At that time that individual probably is employed and paying taxes. Taxation without representation is a key building block on which this country was founded.

By deegee

August 1, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

The US is taking sides in the civil war in Iraq and it ain’t with al-Maliki. Maybe $20 billion in arms to Saudi Arabia will get his attention.

“The role of the Sunni Arab neighbours is to send a positive, affirmative message to moderates in Iraq in government that the neighbours are with you”

US State Department official

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6920458.stm

By jbmlaw

August 1, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

Dear jm @ 12:45, you speak words many support, maybe even me. I can argue the other side too, however. “When one, by his criminal acts, proves that he subjugates the rights of others, he forfeits his right to shape our standards.”

By time for the truth

August 1, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

LMFAO … the sad mexican type racist heebeedeegee is still hilariously puking up its I hate Anglos hate!!

Doubtless the putrid racist heebeedeegee is unaware that numerous football players get badly injured every season. including doing their ACL’s and wiuth such a bad injury are usually out for a full season - which is a gruelling 9 months in England.

What some jammy taco muncher manages to do at the pathetically low level of footy in the MLS is of no consequence!! Except to sad desperate racists like heebeedeegee … the mexican league standard of footy is as p!ss poor as mexican driving and the mexican ability to NOT be freeloading leeches in other much more sophistcated, advanced countries !!!

By RCH

August 1, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

jbmlaw Thanks,what say youDebbiedoright?

By time for the truth

August 1, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

GOOD BLOODY RIDDANCE!!!

Lets hope even more of these worthless hate America maggots go … and very soon!!!

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3433005&page=1

By Lauren

August 1, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

How to keep the poor man down:

Step One: Legislate tougher sentences for use and distribution of the poor man’s drugs (e.g. crack) than the rich man’s drugs (e.g. cocaine).

Step Two: Pass laws preventing those convicted under such sentencing rules from voting.

Step Three: Party like it’s 1999, but don’t get busted (not a problem).

Step Four: Put a lackey in the White House (not to be confused with electing a lackey to the White House)

Step Five: Appoint more judges who will continue to ignore the 14th Amendment (equal protection) and continue to allow discriminatory sentencing and elimination of voting rights from groups that are disproportionately black or hispanic.

Well done, GOP.

By Impeach 'Em

August 1, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

“When one, by his criminal acts, proves that he subjugates the rights of others, he forfeits his right to shape our standards.”

Hmm… Good argument for impeaching Bush & Cheney.

By Van

August 1, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

Lauren,

Stalin must be your golden boy. Class envy and demanding a race ratio for those in prison???

If blonds, only an example, did 75% of check cashing fraud, would you demand fairness for all blonds?

Not to mention the ignorant stance that Bush was never elected - how pathetic.

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

DebbieDoRight, If Ted Bundy was released from prison, instead of taking the big dirt nap, would you have allowed him to vote? How about Charles Manson, if he is ever allowed to be released, would you like him voting for a tough on crime candidate?

Van, Grow up!!

By Van

August 1, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

RCH,

All rights? Some rights? Which rights?

By RCH

August 1, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

Van

I could see all voteing rights. Gun rights I may have a problem with.

Lets use you example. A convicted felon who has sense reformed and is now in a high tax bracket. He would be unable to vote against a tax and spend politician. It goes both ways.

By AmVet

August 1, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this

Good afternoon fellow blogosphere companions!

Yesterday evening, there was a post with some great information outlining the Honest Leadership, Open Government Act of 2007, recently passed by Congress. Great stuff. We’ll see if in spite of my cynicism, these “professional crooks” can be reined in somewhat.

To me, this has been one of biggest of the disappointments of the Republican Party’s rise to power - the unwillingness and inability to avoid bribes, corruption and a litany of other scandals.

I can’t know, but it is as if the GOP, especially in Congress who was on the outside looking in for so many decades, decided that in spite of their claims to be part of this “new” group who was going to clean up Washington, wanted to do little but exact revenge and show the Dems they too knew a thing or two about dirty politics and dirty money. And lots of it.

As always, they just hoped they wouldn’t get caught. Some did, some didn’t.

And before somewhat even brings it up, obviously I realize that for every Ted Stevens there is a William Jefferson. And I am not excluding the many guilty Democrats from this damning indictment. But is anyone besides me sick of this “moral equivalency” that is so often used by the partisan enablers of these members of the GOP?

It is hard to believe, but how could these guys be so myopic and arrogant they could think that the American people would yet again just turn a blind eye to their shameful shenanigans? And even though their party leadership might not have the guts to say it, I truly believe the American people are just fed up with this stuff.

And sadly as evidence by his numerous unkept campaign promises, GWB has demonstrated precious little actual leadership in earning the trust and goodwill of the American people in this area by keeping his troops in line and out of disrepute.

“After years of false statements and empty promises, it’s time for big changes in Washington,” Bush said. “We need a president who will finally stand up and fight against the lies and corruption.”

Maybe I’ve been asleep for the past six years, but can someone please tell me where this standing up and fighting against corruption occurred? I must have missed it.

So while it is true that he has apparently not cheated on his wife, one of his closest yes men should mention to President Bush that integrity involves a helluva lot more than extra-marital oral sex.

The only good news? The more the two major political parties have high profile members keep getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar (or other body parts in other places!), the more it helps independents get a chance to do more than just talk about changing business as usual in DC.

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

I’d say that jbmlaw needs to show the links where he got his info from. If it wasn’t from the Dept of Justice’s website, I’d be wary.

The Criminal Division’s Public Integrity Section oversees the national effort to ensure that election fraud investigations and charges have sufficient factual and legal predication, that they will not interfere with an ongoing election, and that a national standard is maintained in this critical area of criminal law enforcement. As a result of the initiative, nationwide enforcement of election fraud matters has increased dramatically.

More than 120 election fraud investigations are currently pending throughout the country, all but four of which were opened after the initiative began in October 2002. In addition, over 60 election fraud matters have been closed after investigation since the initiative began. Finally, since the start of the initiative, 89 individuals have been charged with election fraud offenses.

To date, 52 of these individuals have been convicted.

I’d also say that you, RCH, should learn by now that Fox News isn’t a reliable source.

By Lily Toad

August 1, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

RCH said: Taxation without representation is a key building block on which this country was founded. HA! And it continues.

By RCH

August 1, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

DebbieDoRight That was not the only source;but on a whole I find it a very reliable one. Are we now to debate the accuracy of the info. or that the mainstream media does not carry the story?

By Take it easy

August 1, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

on DDR. She’s most likely a convicted felon trying her deadlevel best to influence the elections on this here blog. She don’t get out much cause of the bars on her windows.

By harold

August 1, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

the mission of the tropes in iraq came before “until”

the mission of the US toops in iraq is to tread water and keep getting killed until ….

to tread water and keep getting killed

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Speaking of voter fraud and Diebold…..

TALLAHASSEE — Computer hackers can change election results on certain voting machines used in 25 Florida counties and not leave a trace, according to Florida’s secretary of state, who has given Diebold Election Systems until Aug. 17 to fix the problem or lose the right to operate in the state.

By jbmlaw

August 1, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

Dear Debbie @ 1:40, I did. There is more there, if you can stand it. Perhaps RCH asks the better question, which I rephrase: if, hypothetically, everything I posted is true, does that make a difference for you, or are we simply wasting our time with you?

By jbmlaw

August 1, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

Dear harold @ 1:54, you faithfully reflect the thinking of the average “patriotic” leftist, that the only purpose of the military is to die. Suggest you watch George C. Scott as Patton sometime.

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

RCH: Don’t know what you’re talking about. Do you doubt the validity of the DOJ’s findings because it is different from what you’ve been told and is not what you want to hear?

I gave you the DOJ’s website to verify my claim, (notice how I always do that. I don’t just give out random info that I pulled out of the air, I give the you actual link where you can go and read it for yourself — somehow I figured you’d be smart enough to understand the significance of that part — my bad); to verify that I was telling the truth, all you have to do is “click” on that link and it’ll take you directly to the DOJ website page.

Now I know I’m not jbmlaw and I don’t even try to post things without backup, so you’ll have to tell me what the heck you’re talking about. You either believe that the DOJ website is the final word on the subject OR you believe that some nebulous info from Never Never Land is.

Your choice.

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

jbmlaw: You cited a link from the WSJ’s Opinion section. I cited the link from the Department Of Justice which is doing the investigation; notice the difference?

By jbmlaw

August 1, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

Dear harold @ 1:54, better yet, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyUX6wV1lBQ.

By jbmlaw

August 1, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

Dear Debbie @ 2:14, yes, WSJ is not a bureaucrat covering his own backside. Bureaucrats never make mistakes, and never miss anything; just ask them.

By "Patriotic Leftist"

August 1, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

Suggest you watch George C. Scott as Patton sometime.

HAHAHAHAHA! Stop it! HAHAHAHA! ROFLMCLAO! HAHAHA! (To quote the video-game playing friends in “40 Year Old Virgin”: Know how I know YOU’RE gay?) HAHAHA!

By jbmlaw

August 1, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

Dear Lauren @ 1:05, “How to keep a poor man down:” (1) enact collectivist policies. That’s all. Not only will it keep the poor man down, it will drag the rest of the economy down to his level, so all can enjoy the fruits of poverty.

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

jbmlaw: Bureaucrats never make mistakes, and never miss anything; just ask them.

Neither do newspapers. I guess all those “retractions” that they publish on page X299, are just for show.

By jbmlaw

August 1, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

Dear Conservative friends, the youtube link I posted @ 2:16 is for you. “Patton” commenting on the current Iraq war, and more pointedly, on our patriotic leftist friends.

By jbmlaw

August 1, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

Dear Debbie @ 2:28, as you aptly note, newspapers issue corrections, but not bureaucrats. It is an article of faith for our leftist friends that bureaucrats are trustworthy and the greatest citizens of our society - after all, the overlord must be such.

By jbmlaw

August 1, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

An amusing essay by Taranto yesterday:

United We Fall? It seems to us that there is something to be said for the idea that when America is at war, citizens, and especially political leaders, have a patriotic duty to put differences aside in the cause of victory. We oppose government censorship but wish for more self-restraint on the part of war opponents.

We realize, of course, that this idea died for at least a generation with Vietnam, and it may not return, at least until the baby boomers have passed from the scene. But one baby-boomer in Congress wants to bring it back—in reverse. The Associated Press reports:

“Kansas Rep. Nancy Boyda is defending her decision to step out of a hearing room last week while a retired Army general testified about U.S. progress in Iraq… .

“Boyda, a freshman Democrat from Topeka, said she left the House Armed Services Committee hearing on Friday for about 10 minutes during the testimony of retired Gen. Jack Keane… .

“Keane had testified that since the troop surge began, U.S. forces “are on the offensive and we have the momentum.” He also said that security has improved in every neighborhood and district in and around Baghdad, and that “cafés, pool halls, coffee houses that I visited are full of people.”

When Boyda returned to the hearing, she ridiculed Keane’s description of Iraq “as in some way or another that it’s a place that I might take the family for a vacation—things are going so well—those kinds of comments will in fact show up in the media and further divide this country instead of saying, ‘Here’s the reality of the problem.’ ”

Boyda, it seems, wants to suppress information about success in Iraq, because such information would “divide the country.” Better that the country be united in defeatism. Along similar lines is this report from yesterday’s Washington Post: House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) said Monday that a strongly positive report on progress on Iraq by Army Gen. David Petraeus likely would split Democrats in the House and impede his party’s efforts to press for a timetable to end the war… .

Many Democrats have anticipated that, at best, Petraeus and U.S. ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker would present a mixed analysis of the success of the current troop surge strategy, given continued violence in Baghdad. But of late there have been signs that the commander of U.S. forces might be preparing something more generally positive. Clyburn said that would be “a real big problem for us.” What does it say about Clyburn’s party that if things go well for America, it would be “a real big problem for us”?

By harold

August 1, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

jbmlaw, harold aint fallin for no rick roll

By RCH

August 1, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

To All

One more time: Victory in Iraq spells defeat for Democratesin the next election!

By harold

August 1, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

but anyway, the purpose of the military is not just to die. that indeed is their current mission, however. Watch Cheney as he practially admits such: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

jbmlaw: as you aptly note, newspapers issue corrections, but not bureaucrats.

FINALLY!! Something we both agree on!Yes I have noticed how Dumbya, Chimpy, Gonzo, Rumsfeld, Scooter, et al.; has never apologized for their actions NOR holds any empathy for the death and destruction of the American people that they have wrought by their arrogance.

By GodHatesTrash

August 1, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

RCH, short of nuclear winter, there will never be victory in Iraq. If we “won” the war today, who do we take surrender papers to, numbnuts?

Trash.

By jbmlaw

August 1, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

Dear Debbie @ 3:23, so does this mean you will join our efforts to shrink the government, to reduce it reach in society?

By jbmlaw

August 1, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

Dear Debbie @ 3:23, so does this mean you will join our efforts to shrink the government, to reduce it reach in society?

By jbmlaw

August 1, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

Dear GHT @ 3:32, the people in the Carter administration also affirmed that they had lost their irrational fear of Communism, since they knew it could not be defeated.

By RCH

August 1, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

GodHatesTrash

Please, you have lived up to you name. Response to such vulgarity is not deserved. Come back when you have learned your manners.

By Dusty

August 1, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

Oh Debbie,3:23

That last line from 3:23 is sooo sympatico with liberal love notes. The poor American people all trampled on by Republican leaders…sob!!

I had put a little stock in your originality but WHAT HAPPENED?? Poor American people—yeah, the luckiest people in the world. My heart breaks over that…more sobs!

Come on…must I send a sympathy card to Dudley and tell him you have lost an inch or two in grief for us poor ol’ Americans?? Sniff sniff….

By Katharine

August 1, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

Way to go, Jimbo. The schools and universities are among the biggest government gimmee grubbers around, yet I don’t see much intelligence happening. Forget the abstinence programs. I would be happy if kids were taught to read, write and do basic arithmetic before they graduate from high school. Over 47 percent of Georgians are functionally illiterate.

By GodHatesTrash

August 1, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

Being a terrorist is a lot like being a redneck, jbm. Edumacation is what stops people from being terrorists and stumpbroke Georgia rednecks such as yourself.

And, tell me again when the war was where we defeated the Soviet Union? Ironically, their trying to convert Afghanistan dug them a pretty a big grave…

By GodHatesTrash

August 1, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

RCH, when dealing with stumpbroke orangutang inbred rednecks such as yourself, no manners are necessary.

Face it, RCH, as a southron you come from criminally stupid superstitious filthy stock, and the apple doesn’t fall too far from the stunted, crippled tree.

Trash.

By @@

August 1, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Well thank goodness. I drop in over here on a fast break and jbmlaw’s sarcasm has me laughing again.

I just stopped in at Luckovich’s and there’s a bunch of GUYS debating which sport is more worthy of recognition, English FOOKBALL or American FOOKBALL.

Snoooooooze!!!

On the Keane testimony. I watched that hearing, and the Democrats seemed rather put out that Keane asked them to push their DEMONS aside in the interest of this country. He had to leave early. The only one left to address their concerns was the NorbKnob.

Some Republican rep (can’t recall his name) pointed out that all the information submitted by NorbKnob had been gleaned for liberal newspapers and he expected better. Ol’ NorbKnob said that he COULD have brought the same information from their ORIGINAL sources, footnotes blah blah blah.

Boy, the Democrats couldn’t wait to stroke Ol’ Knob while singing praises. The Republican representative left shortly thereafter. I wouldn’t have, I would have pointed to NorbKnob’s lazy attempts to filter the information he brought through the liberal media.

And yes I know NorbKnob served under Reagan but he’s still lazy.

Then some female Democrat wanted to cry and complain about partisan politics. Something about an interview she had on a radio show where she didn’t like what the host had to say off the air. She just couldn’t emphasize strongly enough that it was a RIGHT-WING radio host. So much for her disdain of PARTISAN politics.

By jbmlaw obfuscates

August 1, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

Thank you DittoHead @3:04, but Rush Limbaugh already covered the “Clyburn proves that Democrats want us to lose” obfuscation tactic yesterday. Of course, the right-wing echo chamber is parroting it all over their blogs. Now, you’ve done your part.

Fortunately, most Americans have figured out that Bush/Cheney are users, and as a result, Petraeus will report exactly what Bush wants him to report. Unfortunately those of you on the right have your heads so far up your a*******es you can’t see or don’t care how horribly we’ve screwed things up for the Iraqi people (sadly, just last week, car bombs killed several dozen after the Iraqi team’s poignant victory in the Asian Cup semifinals).

By Fun Facts

August 1, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

Approximately 2,000,000 have fled Iraq already and approximately 50,000 are fleeing every month, according the U.N.

At this rate, we should be able to end sectarian violence fairly soon since there will be no Iraqis left to kill.

By GA Calling

August 1, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this

I ain’t never seen no “orange tang” like that fella GHT been talkin’ ‘bout. That must be what the sistas bring to the party, ooh-wee. I hear they will definitely “break the stump” if you know what I mean - no doubt - ‘lessun you just carryin’ a little branch there GHT. But no matter, you just keep talkin’ trash, trash cuz you almost as funny as that truth talkin’ guy ‘cept less so.

don’t worry brutha we won’t tell on you.

By Ware

August 1, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

There is progress in Iraq, and that’s indisputable. Sectarian violence is down in certain pockets. There were areas of great instability in this country that are, at last, finding some stability.

The point, though, is, at what price? What we’re seeing is, to a degree, some sleight of hand. What America needs to come clean about is that it’s achieving these successes by cutting deals primarily with its enemies. We have all heard the administration praise the work of the tribal sheiks in turning against al Qaeda. Well, this is just a euphemism for the Sunni insurgency. That’s who has turned against al Qaeda.

And why? Because they offered America terms in 2003 to do this. And it’s taken America four years of war to come round to the Sunnis’ terms. And, principally, that means cutting the Iraqi government out of the loop.

By achieving these successes, America is building Sunni militias (just as we once built up Saddam) — anti-government forces opposed to the very government that America created. The question is, is America prepared to pay this price?

By Jim H to Bart

August 1, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Why did they murder Tillman? That’s pretty easy to answer. Apparently just because Tillman was a patriot didn’t mean that he was a neo-Nazi like the Bushies believed.

He was actually way more liberal than you are. Hard to believe, isn’t it, that one of us lefties would strap on a gun and go fight for America. Only patriots like Cheney and Bush would do something like that.

From his friends and family we’re hearing that he regularly spoke out against Bush, encouraged other soldiers to vote for Kerry in 2004, said that the Iraq war was illegal and the the Bush admin was an illegal presidency. He was very intellectual, and a very good writer, and articulate as hell. He was a natual leader. He also had an appointment to visit with Noam Chomsky when he returned home. The big problem for the neo-cons is that he was due to come home soon.

Now consider that the Bushies sent him to war touting him as an American patriot and a model for all citizens. What would he have written, said, done when he got home and Bush’s supporters are equal in number with the “Free Charlie Manson” crowd. Red Staters loved Tillman like he was their own son, because he had earned their respect, and Pat Tillman was about to come home with the ability to speak for himself.

By Analchord

August 1, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Dog day afternoon, eh?

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

Come on…must I send a sympathy card to Dudley and tell him you have lost an inch or two in grief for us poor ol’ Americans?? Sniff sniff…

LMAO!!! If Dudley comes home with a card from some woman I don’t know; he won’t have to worry about being redeployed to Afghanistan; he’ll be dead LONG before that!

By RCH

August 1, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

Debbiedoright and the rest of my liberal friends

Spin this one!!!!”“a real big problem for us”?

The truth is out. In chess this would be checkmate. The majority whip of the Democratic party making this statement. And yes Mr. Reid agreed that they would follow and respect the findings of Gen Patrious.

Hillary has better put her finger in the air to determine which way to dance because the wind has shifted!

By DebbieDoRight

August 1, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this

Dear Debbie @ 3:23, so does this mean you will join our efforts to shrink the government, to reduce it reach in society?

Sure. Let’s start with the Dumbya administration and work from there.

By Dusty

August 1, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this

Ah Debbie,5:10

I thought you would come through..it’s been a slow day on the airway..but for a minute there earlier I thought you were going to say “What God hath wroughtto us under the Bushies or something…”

Oh well, if I send Dudley a card I will include a picture of the five “little ones” including the 175 pound weakling. You will know that it is all OK. Yes!!.

But, would you speak to your fellow liberal, the one Jim h to Bart? He is getting ready to accuse Bush of killing Tillman and that’s a bit much. Actually it is spelled S I C K . Should I say that most liberals I know are not totally crazy? Well, most of them are not. Some sing in the choir.

By For the Record ...

August 1, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this

With apologies to Oscar Wilde, in this case the truth happens to be both pure and simple. Voter IDs have nothing to do with purported voter fraud — virtually none has been proven anywhere. They are just one more trick in the sleaze bag of Karl Rove to limit poor and handicapped Americans from voting Democratic, especially in districts where the vote might be close.

Ironic, isn’t it, that “conservatives” who deride governmental competence in all forms argue that the state of Georgia will “reach out” to the poor and handicapped and provide them the IDs. Either you are alarmingly stupid, or you are just lying.

Why are real conservatives not concerned about the destruction of the Department of Justice? Should our judicial system depend on which party holds the White House?

Allow me a personal note. My mother is 87, a Republican, with no driver’s license, no picture ID. I am looking forward to one of you “conservatives” trying to prevent her from voting next election.

By RCH Fan

August 1, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this

Mission accomplished, right RCH? We got the Dems right where we want them.

Millions have fled, millions more are living in ethnically cleansed neighborhoods, limited electricity, Sunni militias being armed by American taxpayers, Iraqi Parliament on vacation, Sunnis split from the Iraqi cabinet, and 70 were killed in a single explosion today. But a Democrat made a stupid comment, and the winds have shifted.

We got ‘em, brother.

By GodHatesTrash

August 1, 2007 7:14 PM | Link to this

And God hates Georgia.

Trash all.

By WTF

August 2, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

While Jim has raised an interesting question, I think that he hasn’t exactly painted a full picture. On the surface, it of course seems unusual to spend taxpayer money to get taxpayer money. However, UGA’s lobbyist doesn’t only lobby the Georgia General Assembly, he also has to lobby the U.S. Congress which is also hearing from the thousands of universities and colleges across the nation. Should UGA sit back and rely on the good will of Congress to ensure that it is adequately and fairly funded with Members from across the country wanting to favor the educational institutions in their state or district? Of course not! It is not just universities that are asking for funding. Every federal agency has an office of “Congressional relations” which is responsible for ensuring that they receive funding, as does the Army Corps of Engineers, and branches of the military. It’s surely not a perfect system, but this is a big nation with lots of competing interests. UGA is right to make sure that it has a place at the table.