Thinking Right

By RCH

July 26, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this

To All A little off the subject, but the “John Doe” clause has been put back into the Security bill. I guess all those phone calls, e-mails, and blogs put the pressure on our Congressional leaders. Thanks.

By Ray

July 26, 2007 8:28 AM | Link to this

Thanks to the tax cuts, I now have my own driver. Those on the train should have done their homework.

By @@

July 26, 2007 8:33 AM | Link to this

Trains, planes & no automobiles Jim? My answers:

By @@

July 26, 2007 8:36 AM | Link to this

Cute cartoon on the John Doe clause.

By Jim Wooten

July 26, 2007 8:37 AM | Link to this

@@ at 8:33: No fair providing the correct answers before others have taken the test.

By Aquagirl

July 26, 2007 8:43 AM | Link to this

Okay, Jim.

Our entire air travel system can be disrupted by one thoughtless, self-centered, idiot Georgia fan. Overreliance on air travel is insane in today’s world.

Can I get my iPod back from Mid-South now?

By Jeff

July 26, 2007 8:51 AM | Link to this

Mr. Wooten:

Back when I was heavily involved as a regional manager for a national non-profit (I was in charge of the entire south east), I seriously looked into travel by train to a couple of the places that I had to go. (DC and Austin, TX if I remember correctly. DC I distinctly remember. The other was either Austin or San Antonio.)

What I found is that train was generally DOUBLE OR MORE the price of a plane ticket, and with comparable arrangements. Plus, train generally took at LEAST twice as long as plane, generally FAR longer.

So there really is no comparison in my book. While I may in fact take my soon-to-be-wife on the SAM Shortline at some point within the next few years, Amtrak is out of the question. (And the SAM Shortline is only IN the question because there are aspects to it and the locations it goes to that make it a unique and romantic weekend getaway - even though ALL of its destinations are within about 30 miles of our house!)

So to answer the questions:

1) No

2)train would have been a good option: ZERO.

3) equal fare: Plane, in a nanosecond

4) cross country: NO. Regional, depends on the region. The only one I’m thinking has a future is the BoshWash corridor.

5)Premium: Amtrak, NO. SAM Shortline: As I mentioned earlier, only because of its side benefits, NOT because of the rail itself.

6) Most defintely.

By PTB

July 26, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

As Aquagirl pointed out, we subsidize the car, roads and air travel in this country. The car is perhaps the most dangerous and the most damaging of all of those forms.

I’m afraid that this is yet another example of so-called conservatives removing funding from a viable resource in order to break it and then crying as if it broke on its own. Right now is the time to put resources into regional and local, clean mass-transit. The technology is there for efficient, inexpensive and viable train service; we’d just rather put billions and billions of dollars into raods, the pockets of no-bid contractors, and bridges to nowhere.

By Redneck Convert

July 26, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

Well, I never done too good in school, so I won’t take Wooten’s test. The multiplying tables done me in. Anyway, I never made it out of the 5th grade and it never hurt me none. But I can think like any big shot conservative like jbmlaw or Van. Like them, I don’t know much but I know what I like.

Anyway, trains is for pinhead libruls like Harold and getalife. Its just like MARTA, which stands for Moving Afros Returning to Atlanta. They want to ride and let hard-working taxpayers pay for most of it.

If they want trains they ought to be willing to pay the full fare for them. Don’t use my tax money so a bunch of Those People and libruls can step on a train and ride like big shots while the rest of us are stuck in traffic in our pickups. No one offers to pay part of my gas bill when I fill up. Why should I pay part of the bill when they park their butt on a train or bus seat?

I see Sister Dusty keeps making cracks about my trailer park. She needs to learn to be a good Christian. At least TFTT hasn’t chimed in for the past few days. He’s too busy whacking on that Peeping Tom guy and Crackpipe Debbie.

Well, I got alot of beer to get to my bars. I hope you all figure out what to do with the trains while I’m away. I’ll check back in at lunch time right after I finish my little weenies and the pork rinds and my Coke.

By harold

July 26, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this

Why does nobody ever talk about public roads this way? “On its most inefficient money-losing routes, taxpayers provide subsidies of more than $400 per passenger”

All public roads that are not toll roads are inefficient money-losing routes, are they not? They are all subsidized by taxpayers, are they not? Why not “derail” roads occasionally?

Have you ridden a train in the last five years?

YES

If plane and train fare are equal, which would you take?

PLANE

Do cross-country or regional trains have a future?

ABSOLUTELY. Europe is full of high speed trains. If we had them here, Harold would be happy to take those instead of planes, priced appropriately. If Harold could take a train (even 2 or 3) to the UGA game, Harold would be delighted not to have to drive home after (not) drinking all day (while everybody else got to).

Would you pay a premium to ride the train?

Possibly, if it gets Harold where he is going faster than a plane due to a better located (northside) terminal and short security/baggage waits. A high speed train anywhere within 600 to 800 miles could be faster than flying. To LA, Seattle, San Fran etc, flying is probably the way to go.

Do you object to the taxpayer subsidy?

Only for roads with private vehicles!

By Anonymous

July 26, 2007 9:09 AM | Link to this

Air travel is no longer worthwhile, no matter how cheap the tickets are. The ineffectual “security” checks, the endless delays, the uncomfortable seating and poor service—the heck with it.

If I need to travel, I’ll look into trains. Or Greyhound. Or a freakin’ Segway, rather than deal with another airport-and-plane ordeal.

By Jeff

July 26, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this

OK, here’s a real life case-study, based on current results from amtrak.com and airtran.com:

Case: ATL - LAX 1-way:

Amtrak: No direct route. Route provided is: ATL - DC, DC - Chi, Chi - LAX. Time: 13h49m, 18h20m, 43h0m, respectively. Total time of 75h9m. Price: $1456.00

Airtran: Direct route. Leave ATL 6:50p local, arrive LAX 8:31p local. Total flight time (I think) under 5 hours, counting time zone changes. Price: $356

So Airtan saves me 70 hours and $1100. Gee…. wonder which one I’m choosing???

Rail made sense when the world ran at a slower pace. In a day where I might have to be in ATL today, LAX tomorrow, and Moscow the day after that, rail simply does not make sense.

By RCH

July 26, 2007 9:14 AM | Link to this

I would have to agree with Jeff. Train travel in the U.S is more of an adventure than a true means of transportation. For all those who wish this form of transportation let them pay full price.

By harold

July 26, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

so anyway jim in the name of national security the next time AL QAEDA TERRORISTS blow up some planes or whatever, if there is no rail what happens to america?

are you even slightly aware of how trains take over when planes fail in the NE?

watch train fares.. then check when there is a blizzard or big power outage or noreaster and the airports shut down

to eliminate rail is to put america at risk

you dont hate america, do you?

By Mid-South Philosopher

July 26, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

We have had a little more time than 20 minutes on this test, but that is appropriate even under the provisions of the No Child Left Behind Act.

Amazingly all of you made Adequate Yearly Progress by answering the questions, by and large, correctly.

Even Redneck Convert, who didn’t take the test, came up with some correct observations.

As for the Philosopher, the romantic side of me would like to have the option of train travel; however, it will never work in the United States because of the distance and the level of service.

Currently, it takes a good 12 hours to go from Atlanta to New York, via Amtrak, if everything, as on the rare occasion, works as it should. In less than three hours one can be there by plane. Americans are too much in a hurry.

I suspect local train travel might be more successful. For example, people from Cartersville, Calhoun, Dalton, Cumming, Gainesville, and points to the north might flock to a fast train transport into Atlanta; however the cost of providing and maintaining that service would likely be too much.

Alas, the day of rail travel in the States, I suspect will remain a long ago memory.

Now all you test takers have a cookie and some orange juice.

By Jeff

July 26, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this

MSP:

I actually found something I MIGHT do one day (assuming I can convince the wife to do it with me):

I’ve always wanted to go on a cross country road trip for a couple of vacations. (Literally drive as close to all borders as possible, the entire length of said borders. Then take a couple more trips cutting diagonally through the country.) I actually found a ATL-LAX route that could accomplish the same goal, WITHOUT me having to drive it: ATL - DC, DC-Chi, Chi - Portland, OR, Portland - LAX. No details on time or pricing, but the route itself (on the Chi-Portland leg) goes through what could very well be some remote wilderness, based on what I know about the states involved (ND and MT in particular). This could accomplish the goal of the trip, WITHOUT me having to drive it, so I get to actually SEE more of the scenery.

But my point remains: as a viable form of transit for the majority of people, train is dead.

By harold

July 26, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this

let us not forget we are talking about the SLOW train

thing is, there are FAST trains which we do not have because people dont like SLOW trains

Metro Atlanta may just be too isolated for trains, even 200mph trains, to be all that useful, but in the NE these fast trains could rule the day

By Jeff

July 26, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

harold:

Note that in my first post today I noted that BoshWash was the ONE area that I thought trains could be viable. Indeed, I’ve known SEVERAL people from that area that use trains virtually every day in the same fashion that some (few) in Atlanta use MARTA.

By Dennis

July 26, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

Mr. Wooten writes, “Amtrak has survived the same way that manufacturers, contractors and others relying on Congress for taxpayer dollars…[it]continues at the public trough despite the operating inefficiencies….”

Whether it’s a government supplement or a government tax break, the end result has the same intention.

Let’s cut the subsidies and tax breaks for big oil (and I will not bother the intelligent reader with a long litany of the obvious others). Compared to those, Amtrack is a tiny fish in a BIG green pond.

You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.

By jbmlaw

July 26, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

Good morning all. I have never ridden a train within the US. My general rule is that for trips alone of 500 miles or less I drive, and I fly if longer (rationale: any flight to anywhere takes a five-hour time commitment – trip to airport, dead time prior to departure, flight time, ground time on arrival – and the higher cash outlay of flying is thus not justified.) A train has all of the speed defects of personal auto, and all of the cash defects of flying. Much like sea travel, the only reason to take a train is whatever non-travel benefit exists in traveling by train, and those benefits do not compare to excursion sea liners. While I think there may be a market for train travel, for people who seek a leisurely way to see the landscape, I think such a luxury ought not benefit from taxpayer-funded welfare.

By harold

July 26, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this

EVERBODY REPEAT AFTER HAROLD:

ALL ROADS EXCEPT TOLL ROADS ARE PUBLICLY FUNDED MONEY LOSERS

ALL ROADS EXCEPT TOLL ROADS ARE PUBLICLY FUNDED MONEY LOSERS

ALL ROADS EXCEPT TOLL ROADS ARE PUBLICLY FUNDED MONEY LOSERS

ALL ROADS EXCEPT TOLL ROADS ARE PUBLICLY FUNDED MONEY LOSERS

ALL ROADS EXCEPT TOLL ROADS ARE PUBLICLY FUNDED MONEY LOSERS

By WTF

July 26, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

1) In the past five years I’ve probably ridden the train 10 times. BUT, that was always from Washington, DC to New York. Not sure if the time to ride the train from Atlanta to another major city is worth it.

2) If plane and train fare were equal I would take the plane if it were a long trip, the train if it were a short trip. By the time you arrive at the airport two hours early, go through security, wait for your delayed flight, etc. you can be on your train and on your way. Plus, if there’s a problem you’re not going to hurtle out of the sky.

3) Cross country trains have no future, while regional service is actually very popular, particularly in the Washington to Boston corridor.

4) If by paying a premium you mean would I pay more to ride Acela? No way. It costs twice as much for a minimal difference in time.

Do I get bonus points for other answers given? If so then here it is: Why does the Amtrak debate have to be about a nation-wide rail service? Obviously, there are some serious issues with the systems economic feasibility. Has no one ever proposed scaling Amtrak back to a smaller service that would serve heavily traveled routes between major metropolitan areas such as the Washington-Boston route and cutting the routes that are not used? Amtrak doesn’t make much sense for Atlanta, but for those traveling between Washington, New York and Boston it is very popular and much easier and more economical (i.e. generally cheaper than air travel).

By RCH

July 26, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this

harold

Without roads you cannot drive to work. Without work their is no paycheck. Without paychecks their is no tax withholding. Without taxes the government makes no money. Without money, the Government cannot exists. Therefor roads create wealth for the public.

Simple enough.

By WTF

July 26, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

RCH, doesn’t your rational for roads vs. rail work in favor of rail also? At least in areas where people DO use rail to get to work. Perhaps it’s on a different scale, but the premise is the same.

By Analchord

July 26, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

Without Amtrak, there would be no railroad tracks for Vick to tie his dogs to.

Is there anything more powerful than a locomotive?

I think Wooten just solved the Northern Arc challenge with Amtrak trains!!!

It…could….work!

By harold

July 26, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

RCH, roads do not make money. Roads lose money.

People go to work and earn money but the roads still cost everybody money along the way.

Roads should pay for themselves. If they all had tollbooths, they could.

Instead, the taxpayers are fleeced to pay for these asphalt and concrete boondoggles. And then, THEN, anybody wanting to use a 100% taxpayer-paid road has to buy a vehicle too after paying all those taxes!!!

By jbmlaw

July 26, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this

I’m curious, who are the wasteful spenders who want to fund the money loser? Shouldn’t we vote those guys out of office? Or is this sui generis wasteful spending by those people (not Redneck’s “Those People”). I thought the democrats were going to be different; I am so disillusioned.

By harold

July 26, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

Without roads you cannot drive to work?

Wrong!

Without a CAR you cannot drive to work!

Taxpayer funded roads are totally useless until you shell out thousands of dollars for your own car at which point you then start to pay for fuel to haul your fat butt plus 2 tons of steel around! talk about GROSSLY INEFFICIENT!

2 tons of steel per person is the most inefficient mode of transportation on earth!

By @@

July 26, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

Wow Jim!!! I passed?

Isn’t it amazing that there were no liberals here to complain about “the gas”?

See ‘ya….

By Jeff

July 26, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

harold:

The vast majority of cars weigh FAR less than 2 tons. Indeed, with the advent of carbon fiber and fiberglass paneling, cars - other than the frame and engine - weigh next to nothing. Even with the frame and engine added in, you begin to approach a HALF of a SINGLE ton, not 2 full tons.

By Curious Observer

July 26, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

Many decades ago, while I was in the service, I took a train from Orlando to Los Angeles. At that time, air travel was very limited and regarded as expensive. It took three long days and several train switches to reach my destination.

Not much has improved about train travel since that time. It is still the slowest mode of commercial transportation (later, when I returned from an overseas station, I took a bus from San Diego to North Carolina, and the bus was still faster than a train.)

Forget about trains as transportation for long-distance trips. They may be practical for metropolitan use, provided the funding is adequate. However, trains should not be beneficiaries of federal subsidies. And the attempt to make roads the target of ridicule is simple sophistry. After all, everybody uses roads, but only a tiny minority of the country’s population ever uses a train. If we are to subsidize transportation, we should put the money into roads, which benefit everybody.

After watching the MARTA debacle for the past 35 years or so, I am through with schemes that are designed for and benefit primarily inner-city dwellers. Every time I am held up in my commute by a bus driver who chooses to use the right lane as a temporary parking space so that he can maintain his schedule, I am reminded that my tax money is being used for such foolishness.

Harold might as well get off his hobby-horse. The time for trains has come and gone. And if the passenger revenue can’t fund the operating budget for train travel, then the trains ought to go out of business.

By Lily Toad

July 26, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

Have you ridden a train in the past five years? Yes. 1. When visiting my brother we took the train (not the subway) from the Bronx to Manhattan. 2. When traveling in Great Britain. 3. Light rail in Baltimore. But not between US cities.

How many times have you gone to a city — New Orleans or Washington, for example — where trains would have been an attractive option. Never

If plane and train fare are equal, which would you take? Probably the plane because of time. For example, to take Amtrak to Washington, DC, I’d have to travel overnight. Sleeping on a train doesn’t appeal to me. If I could board in the morning I might consider it.

Do cross-country or regional-service trains have a future? Only for leisurely riders.

Would you pay a premium to ride the train? If I was interested in just sight-seeing, but generally, no.

And finally, do you object — as I do — to the taxpayer subsidy? No, I think rail should be promoted in order to get cars off the road. Also, I think we should return to more freight trains to take so many trucks off the highways.

By RCH

July 26, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this

Harold

With your thought, everything the govt. spends our tax revenue is a loss. With this in mind we should have no military, police, fire persons, etc. Roads and the before mentioned provide a service to the citizen. They are not designed to be a profit center even tough they contribute towards it.

By Jeff

July 26, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

Lily:

Freight travels by road so much for the same reasons that people do: point to point access. Whether the starting point is a factory or a wearhouse, the point is that using the roads the goods can go directly from there to the store shelf. This is simply not true with train-based freight service.

By Lily Toad

July 26, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

After watching the MARTA debacle for the past 35 years or so, I am through with schemes that are designed for and benefit primarily inner-city dwellers. Curious Observer, what is wrong with benefiting inner-city dwellers? If someone doesn’t have a car, the inner city is the best place to live. It is nearly impossible to get anywhere in the ‘burbs without public transportation. And don’t forget, Cobb and Gwinnett voters repeatedly refused to let MARTA into their counties. The outlaying areas of Fulton and Dekalb have access to MARTA, although I admit not very good access, due to the limitations of the MARTA rail layout.

By Lily Toad

July 26, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

After watching the MARTA debacle for the past 35 years or so, I am through with schemes that are designed for and benefit primarily inner-city dwellers. Curious Observer, what is wrong with benefiting inner-city dwellers? If someone doesn’t have a car, the inner city is the best place to live. It is nearly impossible to get anywhere in the ‘burbs without public transportation. And don’t forget, Cobb and Gwinnett voters repeatedly refused to let MARTA into their counties. The outlaying areas of Fulton and Dekalb have access to MARTA, although I admit not very good access, due to the limitations of the MARTA rail layout.

By Chris

July 26, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

Before I launch into my rant, I’ll answer Jim’s questions.

Travelled by Train in the United States: Yes, it took 3.5 days to go from Atlanta to Denver. Why did I take the train? I had the time.

Train Travel as An Attractive Option: I haven’t travelled anywhere (in the US) that train travel is an attractive option.

Plane vs. Train at Equal Cost: that would depend on how far it is away. if it would be equal time between the train and the plane, i’d probably take the train to avoid the inevitable delays and hassles at the airports. I’ll risk derailment (as Amtrak is famous for) so I dont have to take my shoes off for “security”. for longer hauls, i’m flying. 3 days on a train doesnt compare to 8 hours of airport hassles, delays, and flight time.

Do Trains have a future: Sure, but for regional routes. Long haul, cross country service is pretty much the purview of the airlines here and in Europe. Most people will pick the fastest method of travel for the price.

Amtrak should give up on the long haul routes and focus on more profitable regional routes. Create regional rail hubs like in the old days, link them to the airports (see Frankfurt-au-Main’s rail hub at the airport), and integrate rail tickets with airline codesharing. High-speed train service from Atlanta to Chattanooga, Augusta, Charlotte, Savannah, Birmingham, etc. Chicago to Minneapolis, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Indianpolis, etc. Dallas to Houston to San Antonio to Austin to Dallas again. That sort of thing.

Remember everyone, all forms of transport as subsidized by the government, even walking (sidewalks anyone?) —- some just get more money than others.

By Analchord

July 26, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

The railroad is a great idea…..if this were 1840. You cant expect people to all get on one long train that only goes to one place. Then what? Walk? No, no, you need thousands of little trains all on their own little tracks going everywhere.

Otherwise, our infrastructure is finished.

‘muff said.

By BS Aplenty

July 26, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

My take on why Congress has again voted to approve the subsidy to Amtrak is to ensure diverse modes of transportation in the country in case one mode, like the airlines, are crippled by oil prices, terrorism, etc. I think an analysis of this issue based on free market principals dooms Amtrak - this vote is for national transportation security.

Example: if you have the ability to invest at a high rate of return in one asset (without regard for risk) you might well put all your eggs in one basket - the asset with the highest return. Modern portfolio theory suggests that you create a portfolio of investments (transportation alternatives) with different risk profiles to maximize your returns (ability to provide transportation to the country).

This subsidy appears to me to be a national “defense/security” issue like the subsidies paid to the agriculture industry.

Personally, I’ve never taken Amtrak (although the wife likes the idea) and will only fly on large commercial jets - no commuter flights for me.

Please grade on the curve.

By Jeff

July 26, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

BS:

I’m pretty sure that I can get from ATL - LAX in my car in less than 75 hours.

Therefore your “national transportation security” argument is, in fact, BS. The SINGLE BEST transportation method we have is our road systems. When you combine Interstates, Federal Highways, State Highways, County Routes, Rural Routes, and all the rest (both paved and unpaved), there LITERALLY is probably not any spot in the CONUS that a road can’t put you within 5-10 miles of.

By Analchord

July 26, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

The problem with trains is that they need tracks. Simply invent a train that hovers above the ground, say, about four or five miles up in the sky, and you’d have something.

It would be quite popular.

By time for the truth

July 26, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

YES … been on the Blue Ridge GA to Copperhead TN railway line. Also ridden the Incline railway in Chattanooga TN. Not actually used the Moving AfriKans Rapidly Through Atlanta muggers paradise tube trains.

I have been to a few stops on the Amtrak line in the south east but preferred to use my Jap car or Jap truck.

If equal pricing is on offer then the practicalities involved would dictate the choice. How swiftly I needed to get there and how far away the destination was - NO point in sitting on a train for a couple of days one way if only going for a few days holiday. Also the public transport options at the other end would also influence the decision. If I couldn’t get where I needed to go on arrival or commuter safety/crime was an issue I’d either drive or fly and hire a car. But train travel can be a fun, stress free alternative - so long as the line has a Mussolini like level of punctuality.

In some areas trains have a future - I’d say more on the state/regional level than cross country. The densely populated yanKKKee NE is one obvious area where trains regionally can still work.

I wouldn’t pay a premium to ride on a train - except perhaps as a one off trip. But not every day or constantly.

Tax payer subsidies is an awkward one. In principle I am against tax subsidies for anything. ESPECIALLY THE NAMBY PAMBY usually pretty POOFY ARTS and of course any kind of evil racial spoils. In the real world roads here are massively subsidised - petrol taxes are extorted with the advertised intent at least of spending them on roads. Amtrak is currently massively subsidised and is still a joke of a service.

The nightmare for UK railway travellers is about to get worse. After the railways were privatised under Baroness Thatcher the sleazy cash for peerages lefties in the Labour govt have just announced that subsidies are about to be dramatically reduced. Thus commuting by train will massively increase over and above the current horrendously expensive fares over the next few years as the operating increases kick in.

Back in the 1980’s Red Ken Livingstone, happily back then not an MP - the far left jew hater/baiter, IRA lover and apologist and lately towel head terror apologist - actual provable facts - engineered a day after the election far left putsch where he replaced Harrington the moderate Labour leader of the GLC. So the folks in LOndon were cynically deluded into thinking a moderate Labour GLC would run London - and got a far left lying clique. Livingstone instituted a massive subsidy on what was then London Transport - 10p to go anywhere on the bus or tube in the central zone, and little more to go a lot further. So London rate payers were literally subisidising travel for foreigners, tourists, British folks from outside London. Prime Minister Baroness Thatcher naturally opposed this and the courts eventually stopped this far left abuse of power. The fares to travel in and around London today are amongst the very highest in Europe and the service is p!ss poor!!

An express train service from say Atl to Chat would be very convenient and useful - with also a semi-fast stopping service at the main towns on the way (up I-75). But MARTA inevitably spread crime massively to relatively crime free areas when it was expanded. Which I understand is why most non-MARTA counties have refused to take MARTA. A Chatt train service would also spread crime just as MARTA inevitably did.

Organised gangs - usually non-white thugs - still rob entire carriages on London area trains. At gun and knife point, often with brutalk beatings just for the hell of it or if “disrespected”!! Thuggish attacks on rail staff and ticket inspectors stopping ticket fraud are still a national problem and mindless drunken attacks by commuters on other commuters - largely as a result of NU Labour’s moronic 24 hour legal drinking laws have made train travel on commuter lines dangerous and very unpleasant.

By jbmlaw

July 26, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Dear RCH @ 10:22, you have stumbled onto a great economic truth – everything the government does is something the market rejects. In a rational world we thus severely limit functions of government. I have noted often that government is an efficient provider of only three services – (1) killing people, (2) incarcerating people, and (3) expropriating wealth. Amtrak, of course, performs all three functions admirably.

By BS Aplenty

July 26, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

Jeff

Don’t throw a hissy fit, my boy. And the susidies to the farmers, why are we spending those monies?

I’ve also noted that the federal government is subsidizing local Xpress buses, also.

By Chris

July 26, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

Analchord That sounds like a few Airbus 380’s lined up. :)

Everyone Else The national security argument, while sounding nice, is just a small piece of the overall picture. As a nation, we need to invest heavily in our transportation infrastructure. If you look at a road & rail map of the world, you’ll notice the regions with the most roads & rails are the ones with the largest economies. Having a modern, diverse, and efficient transport network is vital to our continued economic status in the world. Not every method of transport will work for everyone/everything — so, lets get on the ball. BTW, I’m disappointed that we’ve had to borrow so much money for the Iraq War. I wish we could have borrowed that money for infrastructure!

By deegee

July 26, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

I have ridden trains in the USA and in Europe. They aren’t cheap but they are in the long run cheaper than the price of a car, financing, gasoline, insurance, ad valorem tax, parking, tires and maintenance. They pollute the air, they kill thousands of people every year, and your taxes go up every time a road needs to be built or repaired. Road maintenance has been grossly overlooked over the decades. Bridges, tunnels and overpasses are crumbling and your tax dollars are going to pay for repairs. Look at what the big dig in Boston cost to build and one person has already died because of its shoddy construction.

Trains absolutely have a place in freight transportation as well as people transportation. Look at how many people are stranded in airports for hours and days because their flights have been canceled or overbooked. Look at what bad weather in one city like New York or Atlanta can do to disrupt air travel.

Cross country train travel in the USA is viable as a tourist concept similar to the Blue Train in South Africa. The US is too big to consider it as a means of business or personal travel. In order to wean ourselves off of the gas pump the country needs a plan similar to the interstate plan developed in the 1950’s. We have to form a regional train transportation system with interconnecting national and metropolitan routes. Does this country have the leadership and the intelligence to pull it off?

By harold

July 26, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

“everything the govt. spends our tax revenue is a loss.”

exactly harold’s point

so why use this against train service but not all other government services?

because people have their noses up their car’s asses, that’s why!

why not rail against that airline subsidy, the TSA, being paid for by taxpayers? hmmm?

city of atlanta owns hartsfield. why doesnt complain about that?

By time for the truth

July 26, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

BLACK HIPPETY HOP MURDEROUS MAFIA BUSTED!!! This is NOT a joke!! Its currently a front page story on the cyber Urinal’s front page.

http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/shared-blogs/ajc/thinkingright/entries/2007/07/26/railtoruin.html

Hardly a surprise to anyone this story - but a handy, timely reminder about the evils of hippety hop/gangsta black crime which happily is NOT a big problem in many states …

By time for the truth

July 26, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

VICK IN THE LEGAL DOGHOUSE LATER TODAY!!

Treat this gangsta lovin’ human scum the way he treated his dogs!!!

NUFF SAID!!

The lying demoNcrat scumbag NiFong has finally admitted that there was “no credible evidence” against the innocent white lads he and this black whoralcious stripper tried to, and nearly got away with lynching.

Typical demoNcrat - using racist anti-white lies to get reelected!!

By KR

July 26, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

The last train ride I took was on the Nancy Hanks from Macon to Atlanta and back. For those of you who don’t know about it, ask Wooten. I think I was 10 or so…

My choice is either personal automobile or plane, depending on the distance and the amount of time alotted for the trip.

I don’t think the current rail design has a future. European style high speed rail and commuter rail service might.

I’m generally willing to pay a premium if I think there is benefit associated with that premium. Thus far, I have not seen that with trains.

I’m not a big fan of government subsidies. I’m realistic enough to know that they are sometimes necessary, but I don’t think AMTRAK is one of them.

By .

July 26, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

Feds indict 16 members of Black Mafia Family

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2007/07/25/BMF0726.html?cxntlid=homepagetab_newstab

By Jim's a Cherry Picker

July 26, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

Fantastic Cherry Picking today Jim. Simply fantastic.

My wife and I took a train back to Atlanta from NYNY after our honeymoon. It was a great way to end a great trip. No airline bs. No lines. And for the price of an airline ticket, we had our own room and access to the vip lounge at the station.

Too bad Atlantans can only take a train between NY and NOLA. We should be able to get to TN, FL, AL, etc…Atlanta should be a regional rail hub.

I’ll be looking for your column explaing the tax breaks and subsidies that the airports and airlines receive in the coming days.

By KR

July 26, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

The last train ride I took was on the Nancy Hanks from Macon to Atlanta and back. For those of you who don’t know about it, ask Wooten. I think I was 10 or so…

My choice is either personal automobile or plane, depending on the distance and the amount of time alotted for the trip.

I don’t think the current rail design has a future. European style high speed rail and commuter rail service might.

I’m generally willing to pay a premium if I think there is benefit associated with that premium. Thus far, I have not seen that with trains.

I’m not a big fan of government subsidies. I’m realistic enough to know that they are sometimes necessary, but I don’t think AMTRAK is one of them.

By Analchord

July 26, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

Iraq beat S. Korea in soccor, and Iraqi fans poured into the streets dancing and firing assault weapons into the air. Casualties mounted as the bullets fell back to earth amid the cheering throngs. The NRA issued a statement that only gravity should be blamed and no new regulations concerning firearms are needed.

Suicide bombers serendipidously took fifty lives giving wise observers some parameters about the depth and breadth of the Iraqi Insurgency.

A penalty kick? Soccor is so boring. Give me a Vick scramble any day…..D’OH!

By RCH

July 26, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

Harold

“city of atlanta owns hartsfield. why doesnt complain about that?”

I have. The Airport would be much more efficient and profitable under a lease to a private entity. But how would the politicians pay of there political cronies and family members?

By Analchord

July 26, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

Think of it: two suicide bombers were so prepared to attack at a moment’s notice that they donned their explosive trucks and went out into the throngs of cheering fans in the streets of Baghdad as soon as they saw the massed humanity.

No hesitation whatsoever. Done deal. At the ready. Sighted people. Sank same.

This is a clue. How determined is the enemy? How deep do his ranks reach?

We aint nevah gonna git outta Iraq.

By Curious Observer

July 26, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

I see that a cat in Providence, RI seems to know which nursing home resident is going to die shortly. The doomed person is identified by the cat’s snuggling up to that person.

Here’s hoping the cat falls in love with TFTT. Anyway, the feline is already predisposed to TFTT, having grown up in the dementia ward of a nursing home.

By Deb A

July 26, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

Have you ridden a train in the past five years? Yes. From Atl to Wilmington Del.

How many times have you gone to a city — New Orleans or Washington, for example — where trains would have been an attractive option. If we would invest in rail then it would be a much more attactive option. But with only once a day service from ATL to NO, it is not.

If plane and train fare are equal, which would you take? If I have them time, a train. A train is far more civilized and relaxing. Plus when is the last time you heard of train accident where everyone on board was killed.

Do cross-country or regional-service trains have a future? Yes they do. The country needs a comprehensive travel network. This means roads, planes, AND Rail. Did you try and drive the thanksgiving after 9/11?? It was crazy because people were so afraid to fly. People should be given options.

Would you pay a premium to ride the train. Yes to a point. And have done so in the past.

And finally, do you object — as I do — to the taxpayer subsidy?

No. The fact is that ALL methods of transportation are subsidized. The subsidies should just be equal.

By Watta Load

July 26, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

It was more than five years ago, but my wife and I thought it would be an nice romantic trip to take Amtrak to D.C. Noisy roof, rude personnel, and at least two mice in our berth…although I preferred the company of the mice to the noisy couple near us. Hopefully the service and critter eradication has improved.

By time for the truth

July 26, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

1 - 800 - ILLEGAL

Heroic Phoenix Sheriff Joe Arpaio is fast becoming a shoe in for the next Homeland Security chief. His report an illegal leech today telephone hotline to the police is a brilliant way to swiftly get rid of illegal leeches. An added bonus is the hysterical ranting screeching of mexican types … OH HAPPY DAY!!!

Black wanker gets extra 60 days in jail

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0725071lee1.html

see Drudge for story if link doesn’t work.

By BPJ

July 26, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

Yes, I’ve ridden trains all over Europe for years; it is the best way to travel medium distances. That’s the key point: it’s silly to talk about Atlanta - LA as a train trip (for most people). High-speed trains are a great option for MIDDLE distance trips, such as Atlanta to Charlotte, Birmingham, Chattanooga, Jacksonville, Savannah, and perhaps DC.

There are several regions of the country where high-speed rail makes sense. The Northeast is one, with successful service already. The others are: the Pacific coast, between Seattle and San Diego (if you are going from Seattle to san Diego, you would presumably fly; but Seattle to Portland, Portland to SF, etc. is better by rail than air); the Midwest, with Chicago as the hub; the Southwest, centered around Dallas; and the Southeast, with Atlanta as the hub.

I’m amazed at some of the thoughtless comments here: a train from Atlanta spreading crime to Chattanooga? Most crooks travel by car.

How to get around when your train reaches its destination? Either you do what you do when you arrive at an airport, which is (a) rent a car, or (b) ride transit to where you are going (thousands of us go to & from the airport by MARTA…..it’s much safer than driving, by the way), or, with train stations being in the center of town (unlike airports), you might actually walk to your destination.

Do I object to the “subsidy”? No, I object to the loaded language of the questions. Our taxes go to pay for many things - some of which I support, and some of which I don’t. That’s called living in a democracy with other human beings. No one person gets to choose their ideal federal budget; we have to compromise with each other. I believe infrastructure (including what is needed for a world class high-speed rail network) is a good use of my tax dollars.

By Anonymous

July 26, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this

JBM: You’re half-right… everything government does is something that the market either can’t do, or is too important to be left to the spin of a roulette wheel.

The market’s a useful tool, but you can’t apply it to everything. And of course, it would be pure foolishness to turn over too much of our democracy to its dollar-based control.

By Jackie

July 26, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

Trains, especially high-speed trains are the best means of transporting people and goods medium distances. Is it ironic that the maglev trains were pefected at Georgia Tech, yet we have the neo-cons fighting against the means of cleaning up the incomplete integrated transportation problem in the metro area. The neo-cons prove that they care only for themselves and not the collective us!

By catlady

July 26, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

You know, Mr. Wooten has the uncanny ability to provide a stem and get a tremendous amount of response. I am willing to bet if he posted on—say—dog do, there would be over 100 posts that day, including some from (unnamed, but you know who they are) posters blaming dog do on “mexicans” or “welfare mothers”, calling those who mention dog do “unpatriotic”, advocating that Bush or Clinton caused dog do in the first place, alleging liberal bias on the coverage of the dog do, claiming dog do provides tax incentives for one income group over another, linking dog do to abortion, women’s rights, or Paris Hilton, or just ranting on and on unintelligibly with inappropriate language.

By jbmlaw

July 26, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

Dear Anonymous @ 12:02, I note, in “some” circumstances, you prefer the anarchy of the mob to the anarchy of the market. I disagree. I can think of no case (other than killing, incarceration, or expropriation) where government outperforms private enterprise. But I am willing to learn.

By jbmlaw

July 26, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

Dear Jackie @ 12:06, your note proves that you “progressives” care not one whit for the individual, but only hypothetically for the masses you enslave.

By time for the truth

July 26, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

watch out peeping tom - its a towel head terrorist - who avoided detection because the demoNcrat traitors stopped NSA surveillance and expanded sanctuary cities - coming after ya:

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!

this is one of the better WHOLLY FACTUAL blogs on illegal immigrants - the facts are irrefutable.

Folks should read exactly what the legally enforced official attitudes of the Mexican govt is to indigent/illegal foreigners in Mexico. Its staggering!!!

http://illegalaliensmustgo.blogspot.com/20070201_archive.html

In the exact spirit of your post peeping tom hopefully you will be the very next fatal victim of an illegal immigrant DUI … chances of that happening are getting better and better every day!!!

failing that spend a few fun filled minutes “shooting” at peeping tom and his chums in this hilarious freebie cyber game - as featured on CNN and Fox News a while back:

if nothing else this game gives one a superb sense of what its like to be a Border Guard being literally overwhelmed by the numbers of illegals.

http://nerdnirvana.org/g4m3s/borderpatrol.htm

Please send that pu$$y cat over here peeping tom - my German Shepherds need a new chew toy!! … smirk

By AV8R

July 26, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

My wife and I took the train to New Orleans and back just before Katrina, It was my first train trip,not hers. Her father worked for the RR and they had taken the train many times.I’ll have to admit I loved every minute of it,and plan to take another trip on the train,strange as it seems, as I work for one of the major airlines. We have plans to fly to DC and take the train to NY in august for my birthday, Can’t wait.

By jbmlaw

July 26, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

Dear Catlady @ 12:10, while you are undoubtedly correct in your observation, you leave it without making a point. Do you oppose exchange of ideas and opinions, or do you celebrate it?

By Jackie

July 26, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

@jbmlaw

You read too many comic books and take everything you hear on Fox to be gospel. If we do not have a comprehensive and complete metro system, with Atlanta have more registered automobiles than they have people; with the GADOT indicating that they can not build roads fast enough to have the volume of traffic, what is it that you think we should do to allow everyone to move around the city in an efficient manner? Give everyone some complete and comprehensive ideas instead of the effects of the neo-con Kool-Aid you drink!

By Dave

July 26, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

My wife and I take the Amtrak from New Orleans to Atlanta each year in the fall. Of course, we fly to N.O. for starters. It is a day trip and we get the private room with meals included. Very romantic, the service is excellent and the food above par - Butterflyed Filet Mignon for dinner with a split of wine - and very affordable. Each time we take this trip we wonder if it will be the last…

By harold

July 26, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

if the city should be out of the airport business and the train business, why should govt be in the roads business? ansewr: they shouldnt!

By Katharine

July 26, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

Government services are supposed to lose money. That’s why government extorts taxes, to pay for inherently unprofitable services.

“Public-private partnerships” translate into the public paying for it and the private profiting from it. Compare “taxpayer subsidies” for Amtrak with taxpayer subsidies for the highway system, the automotive industry, the trucking, distribution, and shipping industries, the petroleum industry (including plastics), and the incompetent, overblown US government, and you will see Amtrak has fierce competition for taxpayer money, yet it has the potential to make the biggest contribution to US energy independence.

By Time for the Toilet

July 26, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

Me mum told me I was born in a tube station loo. She said I was lucky I was a floater not a sinker or I’d a been bollocks for sure!

That’s why I talk different from all a yas, me I’m an English POS.

By Redneck Convert's Left Nut

July 26, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

Well it’s painfully obvious I do the thinking for The Redneck Convert. Both Peter and my twin brother know that our host is a flaming liberal dumocrat, but it sure is fun to watch him make an idiot out of hisself on this blog. But hey, where would we be in our panties without Brother Redneck Convert who likes to trash the rural, mostly white, lifestyle? His city punk self is just all uppity and mad because the latest report on rural vs. urban edumacation throws a monkey at his wench. We won’t get fooled again. HAHAHAHAHA!

By Analchord

July 26, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

On the other hand, the suicide bombers imposing their jihad on a celebration, and the subsequent withholding of the news by Iraqi authorities so that the fans could continue to enjoy the victory comprises the first national collective moment conceived by the iraqis, of the iraqis and for the iraqis.

It was an all-Iraqi crisis. All Iraqi.

Today, the Iraqis are learning about the attacks and experiencing outrage as a citizen-nation, not as opposing worshippers.

This could have been a bigtime mistake by the terrorists and the beginning of the end of the Iraqi war.

They may finally have had enough. Fed up forever as a nation gets fed up, not as jihadists or islamists or ethno-lunatics, but as Iraqi People.

Hoping 4 the best possible outcome!

By GaLiberal

July 26, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

Moron Jim says: Amtrak operates trains in almost every state, but continues [feeding] at the public trough despite the operating inefficiencies of cross-country trains and high labor costs.

What Moron Jim doesn’t tell you is that planes and cars are also feeding at the public trough and taking in a lot more than $500 million. Airlines enjoy a huge subsidy from airport runways and the air traffic control system. We pay for these costs through federal construction grants and fees on our tickets. Not to mention the high prices for lousy bar food at the airports. If the airlines had to pay for these services, they would have to charge soooo much only the very wealth could afford to fly. Since the very wealth have their own planes, the airlines would go out of business overnight. But Moron Jim wants to fly anywhere cheaply. Hell with them stupid taxpayers.

Cars probably get an even bigger break with no tolls or a $10 billion road system. You think the gas tax is enough to build roads and maintain existing ones? Not even close. Since the government is only giving Amtrak $500M, it would be more cost effective to close much of the interstate highway system and save the beleaguered taxpayers a lot of money. But Moron Jim wants to be able to drive anywhere he wants. Hell with them stupid taxpayers.

What Moron Jim also doesn’t tell you is that trains, like airplanes and cars, demand a lot of maintenance. Amtrak has to pay for expertise in engine and track maintenance so they compete with other industries that want the same thing. Industries like airlines. Do you want a $5/hr mechanic working on your plane engine? I don’t and neither does Amtrak. But, that’s OK to Moron Jim since he has no use for trains anyway. Hell with them stupid train passengers if the brakes fail.

By RCH

July 26, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

Can we get the govt.to subsidize my cruise ship tickets also?

By jbmlaw

July 26, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this

Dear Jackie @ 12:24, I perceive you are not a regular on the blog, welcome nevertheless. I think I posted my answer to your question just yesterday or the day before. The solution to Atlanta gridlock is neither more regulation nor more taxes, but merely to move state government to Macon, and to push as much of Federal government into Clayton County near the airport. I also note your repeated use of the anti-Jewish epithet “neo-con;” I expect nothing less from a national socialist, I applaud your consistency.

By Billy

July 26, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

BPJ @11:52,

Best post of the day!!!

Thanks.

By Jim Wooten

July 26, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

GaLiberal @12:55: Quite the contrary, Moron Jim loves trains and plans upon retirement, when time and resources permit, to travel them around the country. They’re like bike paths and sidewalks — not much of a transportation solution — but they have their place, which for Amtrak is probably the Northeast.

Highways are funded by a form of user fees — the gas tax. A similar user fees for trains would eliminate much of the opposition to a general taxpayer subsidy.

By Redneck Convert is a damn fool

July 26, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this

I heard Redneck Convert’s left nut was bitten off by a rabid possum after Redneck fed it some very stale moonpies.

By harold

July 26, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

Sorry Jim but SPLOST aint a gas tax and it’s just one of the sources of taxpayer money that pays for roads

gas taxes do funds highways, but only partially. very partially.

and you think it’s free to ride the amtrak? no, there is a ticket you have to buy. it’s rather pricey harold hears.

By Analchord

July 26, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

The Iraqi National Soccor Team won by a penalty kick against S. Korea.

That means something. Who was the ref? What foul was committed? I’d like to see the replay. Was the ref in any position to make the call?

Soccor is so dull. A penalty kick? Of course basketball games are won by foul shots. The team that makes the most foul shots always wins, ever notice that?

Simarly, in Hockey, the team with the most power plays always wins, it’s uncanny how much the referees and umpires have ruined sports.

Now, we’ve got suicide party poopers in Iraq. The Iraqi Nation was celebrating an Iraqi National Team Victory. The suicide bombers may have awakened a National Outrage heretofore missing in Iraq.

This time, the victims may not have died in vain.

There are reports that one of the soccor players uttered, “I regret that I have only one penalty kick to give for my country”.

By George I think they’ve GOT IT!!

By getalife

July 26, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

Jim,

That time is near and the first class ticket with the bed is pretty cool.

By harold

July 26, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

the amtrak is actually the most efficent and effective tranportation mode the govt is involved in!

the airports just sit there. the roads just sit there. they dont go nowhere. to get anywhere there has to be a massively expensive PRIVATE vehicle involved. they are 0 for 2 in getting people anywhere.

amtrak though is a copmlete system. amtrak can get you somewhere. that is far more efficient than a tranportaion system that cant get you anywheres

By @@

July 26, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

Oh my…I’ve always known children to get cranky as the day wears on, but…

I stopped reading at catlady’s 12:10.

You do realize you forgot to mention “DebbieDoo”…right?

By Jackie

July 26, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

@jbmlaw

I do come to this blog on a daily basis. I have seen the posting that you have made. You make the statement that the government should move to Macon to relieve the gridlock. What a ridiculous concept. Even if the entire government did move, how does that resolve the traffic problem? Moving the Federal government facilities to Clayton County buys what? You are making statements that have no basis in resolving the problem. Secondly, your using the epitaph of the word neo-con being anti-Jewish DOES NOT WORK. The use of the terms national socialist, if you understand, is a description of the Nazi Party in Hitler-era Germany; THOSE WORDS YOU USE TO TRY TO DEFLECT AND OBFUSCATE is nothing more than NOISE POLLUTION, therefore, your thesis is fully rejected. You have nothing to say and your logical contribution to the discussion is invalid.
Further, you do not have the capacity, nor the intelect to attempt to lecture anyone. Now, I will not further add to your invalid diatribe, Put simply, YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!

By @@

July 26, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this

If I may, I’d like to jump on Jackie’s soapbox from where she preaches to jbmlaw.

BE MORE SPECIFIC JBMLAW…

Shipping the federal facilities down my way (Clayton County)? are you talking about prisons? ;-)

By Jackie

July 26, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this

@jbmlaw

If I may offer you a suggestion; the neo-con Kool-Aid that you drink needs less sugar as it has affected your though processes. It seems to have made you hyper! Get some help.

By RCH

July 26, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

Harold

How is Amtrak over water?

By JT

July 26, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

I have taken the train in the past five years. I would definitely take the train again. And again. and again. If ticket prices were equal - the train.

You see, the train is part of the trip. It’s also a lot less hassle than the airport. You aren’t jammed up next to your fellow passengers. You can upgrade for a nominal amount to a compartment (quite luxurious actually) and shut out all the screaming children, the noxious and odious perfumes and B.O. You can dine on food you’d actually enjoy and you can get up, walk around and actually enjoy the scenery.

It’s slower, yes. But by golly, my life is too hectic to begin with. This is a great way to get to a destination, rested, ready to go (whether it be work or play) and most of all, I arrive happy, and with less stress than when I got on the train.

I’m planning a ten day train trip across the pacific northwest for this winter and a west coast train trip for the spring.

All train systems across the globe are subsidized. I believe it should continue to be so in this country too.

By Lanerlaw

July 26, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

Have you ridden a train in the past five years? Yes, in Europe, where they are nice and are fast and go somewhere people want to go.

How many times have you gone to a city — New Orleans or Washington, for example — where trains would have been an attractive option. If plane and train fare are equal, which would you take? If the fares and travel time are equal, the train, no doubt, it’s much more comfortable, and the train station should be closer to the city center than the airport. There’s no good reason we can’t take the train on short hops to Charlotte or Savannah faster than an airplane with all the hassle that now entails.

Do cross-country or regional-service trains have a future? Longer trains are of more dubious value. Let’s improve some specific short segments to high speed (ie to Charlotte, Chattanooga, Birmingham, Jacksonville and Savannah from Atlanta, DC to NY and Philly, NY to Boston, between major California cities) and see what happens.

Would you pay a premium to ride the train. Maybe, a small one, as the seating is better and the station is closer to town—if you take the taxi ride into account, the train warrants a slightly higher amount in many cases.

And finally, do you object — as I do — to the taxpayer subsidy? No more than I object to a subsidy for roads (which I do also, they should be paid for solely by the gas tax, but the feds subsidize roads with income tax so the poor can have cars and be able to live with their illusions.

By DebbieDoRight

July 26, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

You do realize you forgot to mention “DebbieDoo”…right?

Sigh….even when I try and take a day off from you double @hole, you continue to stalk me!!! Do i get you hot girlfriend? Or maybe it’s my literary phrasing or the way i type DEBBI*E? Does that do it for ya?

Well, whatever gets you through the night, I have no problems with lesbians, I’m all for gay rights! You take care now; and don’t forget to write when those nice young men in those clean white coats come to pay you a visit. Peace.

Signed

DEBBI*E DoRight…..

By JT

July 26, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

to GaLiberal - As I firm fiscal conservative, I should find some sort of holes in your logic and your statements about airports and roads. But there are no holes.

You are correct.

I think that someone somewhere brainwashed all of us into believing that in order to travel somewhere we had to be packed like sardines, breathing recycled air, deluged with smells and sounds we find unwelcoming and pay for the priviledge to do so. Furthermore, we should be forced to be strip searched and forced to queue up for hours only to sit and wait.

Not unless I have to. When I have the opportunity to decompress, I take the train. If it’s on the company dime, I check the time allottment, and the cost for both. I pay the difference if the train is more.

It’s worth my sanity and heaven knows it’s a lot more enjoyable.

By RCH

July 26, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

Debbiedo right

Is the female Viagra kicking in our what?

By deegee

July 26, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

RCH, Switzerland has one of the best trains systems in the world. Switzerland is full of mountains and lakes. They go around them. Read and weep.

Getting to Montreux:

Montreux is located in southwestern Switzerland on Lake Geneva, 90 km (56 miles) from Geneva, the nearest airport. Travel time from Geneva is 1 hour by car and 1 hour and 10 minutes by train.

By Jackie

July 26, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

It seems the neo-con criminal conspiracy is starting to unravel. Dems have called for a special prosecutor for Alberto Gonzalez and have issued a subpoena for Karl Rove. Dubya issued a presidential directive that said he had the power to confiscate anyone’s property if he thought they provided material support to the enemy and he could proclaim martial law at anytime he chooses.
Bruce Fein, the lawyer for Ronald Reagan admin has come out publicly calling for Dubya and Cheney’s impeachment; he contention is they have used politics to diminish our constitutional rights. When does this criminal enterprise get a chance to do the perp-walk????

By Richard

July 26, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

Jim, you really do need to get out of Georgia more and see other cities and other countries where they live quite nicely without having to solely rely on a car.

Having said that, here goes:

OK, that took 4 minutes…

Now get on a plane and go somewhere!!

By harold

July 26, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

RCH Amtrak is just as good over water as your car. It requires a bridge over water, troubled or not.

What sort of question was that? Harold must have misunderstood if there was supposed to be a point to that.

By JT

July 26, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

I frequently take the train to New Orleans to gamble and hit Royal Street and, yes, even Bourbon Street.

The taxi ride to my hotel (on Canal Street) is embarrassingly short.

And, boy howdy, you don’t have to get to the train station hours in advance when you’re traveling by train.

By Richard

July 26, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

Jim, you really do need to get out of Georgia more and see other cities and other countries where they live quite nicely without having to solely rely on a car.

Having said that, here goes:

OK, that took 4 minutes…

Now get on a plane and go somewhere!!

By Richard

July 26, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

Jim, you really do need to get out of Georgia more and see other cities and other countries where they live quite nicely without having to solely rely on a car.

Having said that, here goes:

OK, that took 4 minutes…

Now get on a plane and go somewhere!!

By Analchord

July 26, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

Fox just reported another baby was born in a waffle house restaurant. Strangely, the baby came out mothered, diapered and burped.

By RCH

July 26, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

Deegee I was alluding to the oceans. Before there was trains most people traveled by foot, wagon(horse), and boat.

Rather than millions of us flying to Europe or other destinations located overseas lets eliminate jet service and take cruises. It saves fuel, reduces noise pollution, some crowding at airports, and carbon footprint.

But just as time has almost eliminated travel by train as an effective people mover, so is the fate of travel by ship. Yes it is a pleasant way to travel, and effective in some small areas, but as a whole it has gone the way of the horse and carriage.

By Hume

July 26, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

Jim Wooten -

Think about the ignorance of your basic issue. I’m a conservative too, but you are really pushing the limits of conservatism and looking a bit like a conservative lackey in the process. Think for yourself and don’t let the issues get the best of you.

Why would anyone complain about Amtrak if there were other, bigger issues to face? What about our dependence on Arab/Muslim Oil? Train service can actually help break us of that bad habit. And I’m for anything that helps free us from that dependence. Can you imagine how the whole Muslim world would cease to have any relevance to the West, if we freed ourselves from that monkey on our back?

This administration and that of our House and Senate seem destined to force issues of little consequence in the grand scheme of things and put on the back burner the real pressing issues. And they’ve apparently got you along for the ride.

By deegee

July 26, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

I have seen the desperation on the face of the average Georgian when faced with the daunting task of crossing the street at an intersection. How do we expect our barely educated population to read a train schedule? Let’s just give it up. We can carry on as the laughing stock of the civilized world while pretending we have it all figured out.

By Analchord

July 26, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

Am I angry at Vick? Yes.

I’m furious at Mr. Blank, the Falcon’s owner, because he couldn’t even win with the greatest player in NFL history.

Sell the Falcons, Mr. Blank, or leave the coaches alone to rebuild this team.

Start with the offensive line. If we get a number one draft pick, choose a guard or a tackle or a center. Get the best offensive line your money can buy.

Football, like war, is won in the trenches, sir!

ISAIDINTHETRENCHES!!!!

By jbmlaw

July 26, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Dear Jackie @ 1:28, I assume you are a government employee, otherwise you would know about traffic on President’s Day and on the King holiday and on Columbus Day.

You also suggested: “Secondly, your using the epitaph of the word neo-con being anti-Jewish DOES NOT WORK. The use of the terms national socialist, if you understand, is a description of the Nazi Party in Hitler-era Germany; THOSE WORDS YOU USE TO TRY TO DEFLECT AND OBFUSCATE is nothing more than NOISE POLLUTION, therefore, your thesis is fully rejected.” I assume your use of the word “epitaph” (in association with anti-Jewish epithets and your national socialist orientation) was a Freudian slip. I’m uncertain whether you don’t understand that “neo-con” is socialist slang for “Jewish conservative” (amusingly, the epithet was originated by Pat Buchanan, I always get a laugh seeing the leftists embrace his ideas) or IF YOU SIMPLY LIKE TO YELL YOUR MINDLESS DRIBBLE, IN THE HOPE THAT CAPITAL LETTERS SUBSTITUTE FOR SUBSTANTIAL THOUGHT.

By Bfrank

July 26, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

JT, what GALiberal said at 12:55 PM would have made sense if trains ran as many people as our nation’s highways and airways:

Airlines carried 660 million people in 2006 and 22,600,000,000 pounds of freight including mail.

Even back in 2000, 92% of all domestic inter-city travel outside of the automobile went to the airlines. Second up were buses at 7%. In a solid last place is rail, where as a viable passenger utility it should be, at 1%. Nobody in his or her Right mind should be complaining at where public funds go regarding our air transport infrastructure vs. rail.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc.cfm?index=4571&type=0&sequence=3

By JMcQ

July 26, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

Is Amtrak’s present national rail system ideal? No. But it is a framework on which to build commuter and high-speed rail in the future.

Two examples of this in our region: Tri-Rail from West Palm Beach to Miami (upgraded an Amtrak route for commuter rail in that corridor) and NCDOT’s Piedmont and Carolinian services between Raleigh and Charlotte.

If you dismantle Amtrak, tracks and signals are downgraded and stations are razed, meaning that any new passenger rail service will cost the government billions to rebuild. Let Amtrak keep running— it’s a bargain for this reason alone.

And those long distance trains you’re bashing? They’re still vital to many small and mid-sized cities and towns (not everyone lives in the same city as the world’s busiest airport).

By deegee

July 26, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

RCH, with all due respect, you do understand that when we talk about cross country train travel that we are talking about the continental US and not Hawaii?

By RCH

July 26, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

Deegee

When Harold included airports he automatically involved overseas travel.

If we entertain rails a viable people mover over the continent, should we not do the same for overseas travel by ship?

By catlady

July 26, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

jbmlaw: I was just overwhelmed by what seems to be a fact to me: whatever Jim throws out as a topic, the positions are already staked out. In fact, we could just copy this blog over and over and insert whatever the topic is. I guess it would save time…..

After further reflection, however, I am glad for the dependability of folks on this blog to stick to their guns. There’s too much wishy-washy in this world! I would really enjoy folks taking the COUNTER position and going with it—we might see a more intelligent multilogue (is that a dialogue for many people?) if folks would s-t-r-e-t-c-h a bit.

By DebbieDoRight

July 26, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

RCH: Debbiedo right Is the female Viagra kicking in our what?

Female Viagra? You mean Jim Beam? Unfortuantely double @hole drinks her lunch.

By Craig also

July 26, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

Well said Richard @ 2:13. Yes I take Amtrak when I can - obviously it’s not going to work when you’re in a hurry to get across country. But it’s comfortable, and clean, and you’re not packed in like cattle, or treated like a suspected terrorist, or packed in next to someone with tuberculosis. Can anyone say that they enjoy the whole Hartsfield air travel experience?

Of course we should spend some money on it - just like we spend money on roads and airports and the air traffic control system.

Silly question.

By jbmlaw

July 26, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

Clearly our patriotic brethren are in control of Congress. The new defense spending bill includes 1776 earmarks. http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0707/EarmarksintheHousedefense_bill.html

By harold

July 26, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

RCH wants to put ships on rails? That would be pretty hard to maintain. The saltwater rusts metal.

By Hume

July 26, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

Bfrank - Yours is an argument that can be used to defend any position in a far right wing society - and I’m a conservative fiscally, not socially. Your argument also defends raping the land because we need the lumber to build more houses. It defends drilling for oil regardless of what it does to the wildlife because we need the oil.

However, your argument is that of….well, there’s just no other way to say it…an imbecile. Your argument (and those of all who agree with you) assumes that life operates in a vacuum. And it doesn’t. We know that now don’t we?

The U.S. government placated the farmers in the west and allowed the eradication of the wolves because they said they were killing their livestock. So what happend? No wolves and then the farmers were dealing with a booming population of wildlife eating all the grasslands that used to feed their livestock. So now, the Gov’t had to kill off a bunch of those deer, and moose, etc. because the predators that had been keeping them in check was no longer around.

Life doesn’t operate in a vacuum, Bfrank. There’s a cycle to everything. Please think about consequences. George W didn’t when he invaded Iraq when the real war to be won was in Afghanistan….

By Pope rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda I

July 26, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

Greetings from London from Your Holiness the Pope. We are still here enjoying one of the greatest cities in Our Earthly Realm.

Brits are much concerned about climate change, Our trip last July saw Britain’s highest temperature in 300 years of recording temperature, this July is some 25 degrees cooler but with the most rain in July since 1911 - and there are 4 days left. Brits use on the average about 30% of the fossil fuels of Americans, We would say it is mostly to do with the fact that their automobiles are not the centre of their life and society.

Trains make sense here - you have cities that were built when there were only pedestrians and horse-drawn wagons (unlike most US cities, Atlanta especially, that were built around highways), much higher density than the states, less workaholism, and even the English (tft-tranny’s family notwithstanding) have much higher personal hygiene standards than your typical southerner.

Can you imagine sharing a bus or a train with your typical North Georgian? It would be like riding in the bottom of a honeywagon, or (we’re thinking of Dusty and @@ here) or a fishmonger’s truck.

So - you rednecks keep sh-itting where you eat, it’s what you do best.

By jbmlaw

July 26, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

Dear @@ @ 1:34, you give me pause – I would surely not wish to saddle the good people of Clayton County with our Federal cons, and it seems more appropriate to have that prison so close to the zoo. Perhaps we will transfer only those commuting daily to serve their time.

Dear Catlady @ 2:51, your argument is sufficiently well-founded that I cannot dispute your thesis, but you have a few real thinkers who pop in on the blog. Southern Democrat’s arguments even make me stop to think occasionally, and surely I bloviate more than anyone else.

By @@

July 26, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

DebbieDoRight @ 1:54:

Sigh….even when I try and take a day off from you double @hole, you continue to stalk me!!!

I did NOT know that addressing you twice (once here today and once at luckovich’s) in as many years constituted “stalking”. Unless, of course, and it seems to be the case—that you are someone who posts under more than one ID.

DING DING DING!!!!

I knew that “she” (the other) was a horny toad. I just didn’t know “she” (the other) was bi-sexual. Thanks for the info…

Sorry, but NoCanDoo. I’m straight…I’m married…I’m shocked by your invitation.:-P

By Analchord

July 26, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

My dog likes cat poop. He eats it with more enthusiam than that fake bacon treat where the cartoon dog clicks his heels and shouts, “It’s bacon!”.

Coffee gourmets prize a bean that has passed through some unsuspecting rodent’s digestive tract more than any other coffee bean. (They bait the bean with cherries which the rodent cant resist). True. It’s prohibitively expensive.

Maybe that’s what Bush is doing with Iraq: Passing that entire country through the bowels of the apocalypse so that posterity might ingest a more palatable Islamic brew……..this analogy works on so many levels……google the kurds….find out why.

By jbmlaw

July 26, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

Dear Hume @ 3:02, yours is surely the most disjointed argument of the day. So many sophistries, so little time?

By RCH

July 26, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

Debbiedoright

I recommend that all of us get together one fine day. I think after that day we would tend to be a little more civil towards each other. I will buy the first round. Hell, I’ll even invite getalife and Deegee. And yes you to Harold. Will we need security?

By Jackie

July 26, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

@jbmlaw

You are making assumptions that have no validity. I put those words in CAPS so that you could understand the foolishness you are trying to put forth has no substance, as far as I am concerned. You stated in your reply that the term neo-con was coined by Pat Buchannan. Let’s assume that it was, please articulate how this term ends up being anti-Jewish? You also stated the use of National Socialist was a Freudian slip. Typical tactic of the neo-cons, speak about an item publicly then issue your apologies. Nice try, but it does not cut it with me. You said what you said because you have your thought process along those lines. There is very little I agree with Pat Buchannan on, except that we need to have the USA represented by our elected representatives and not be bought by special interest groups who have an agenda that is not in our(my) best interest. And, I say to you directly, you can not convince me that your thesis is valid at any time. I would ask you to pick a subject that you have more factual information.

By BPJ

July 26, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

Thanks to Billy (@1:03) for his kind words about my earlier post. (No, I have no idea who Billy is.)

A few observations about the idea (which has come up before, when advocates of Dumb Growth have nothing else to say) that the solution to Atlanta’s traffic woes is to move state government to Macon:

By RCH

July 26, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

Debbiedoright

By the way you owe me one. I didn’t get any sleep last night. There wasn’t enough drugs or booze in the house to wipe out the thought of Janet. You are a bad girl!!!

By Lily Toad

July 26, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

I knew that “she” (the other) was a horny toad. I just didn’t know “she” (the other) was bi-sexual.

Are you referring to me?

By deegee

July 26, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

RCH wants to put turbines in the ocean to generate energy. No maintenance worries there either.

By Lily Toad

July 26, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

I knew that “she” (the other) was a horny toad. I just didn’t know “she” (the other) was bi-sexual.

Are you referring to me?

By Lily Toad

July 26, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

Sorry for the double posts. My server keeps getting hung up.

By RCH

July 26, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

Deegee

You must be a graduate of Georgia. Sorry other graduates. Goggle” Blue Energy Ocean Turbine” and learn something.

By BPJ

July 26, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

here’s my previous post, spaced as I meant it to be (I hope):

A few observations about the idea (which has come up before, when advocates of Dumb Growth have nothing else to say) that the solution to Atlanta’s traffic woes is to move state government to Macon:

(a) most of these offices are Downtown, meaning that many state workers can and do take transit to work; workers in much of the rest of the metro area have no choices;

(b) one minute you guys are telling us that “no one wants to go Downtown,” and that the traffic problems are a matter of commuting between suburbs, the $ should be spent on the Northern Arc; then the next minute you are telling us that the solution is too many people trying to get to work Downtown…..just pick one of those lines of argument and stick with it, OK?

(c) State workers are PEOPLE (yes, really), with lives, families, roots, etc. Many of them would not want to move. So you’re proposing a lot of long commutes from all over metro Atlanta to Macon? commuter trains to Macon (woops, you’re against that)?

(d) everyone understands that moving state government out of Atlanta is extremely unlikely; so what does it say about the anti-rail crowd that their solution to traffic congestion is such a long shot?

(e) has anyone asked the citizens of Macon what they think about this?

By Bfrank

July 26, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

Hume @ 3:02 -

Yours is an argument that can be used to defend any position in a far right wing society - and I’m a conservative fiscally, not socially. Your argument also defends raping the land because we need the lumber to build more houses.

Huh? My argument was just stated facts. Over 90% of Americans who travel between states outside of the automobile do so by air. Therefore, funding accordingly is transferred there. If you don’t like those stats by the CBO and where funding is allocated, that’s your problem. It has nothing to do with a Conservative argument. It’s reality. Grow up, moron.

Finally Hume, I would also like to congratulate you for being all over the map without addressing the premise of what transportation method rules in America. If you don’t like the results of the data, then that’s just tough nip for you. Only a mindless liberal democrat could float from talking about farmers and a moose to Afghanistan when the subject is about air travel vs. rail travel. Take more drugs..you’ll feel better, genius.

By @@

July 26, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

RCH:

[Cool!] Runs on current alone? No fuel source?

Doesn’t appear to be unsightly or obtrusive.

Who benefits from the power generated?

By @@

July 26, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

Lily Toad:

Are you referring to me?

Who the heck knows anymore?

Does your “Lily” relate to white or are you always perched on “a pad”?

In the first instance you couldn’t be “she” (the other). If it’s the latter, you could be.

Highly emotional…

By @@

July 26, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this

Oops RCH! Let me dive in and get that link again.

By RCH

July 26, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

@@ The turbines use either ocean currents or tidal currents, so your fuel source is unlimited and clean.

You see, even a conservative can recognize a good thing. There are other models which are completely submerged there is no telltale site of them.

There are several communities overseas that have used this power source to fuel the entire community.

@@. We have vast amounts of ocean, lets use it.

By catlady

July 26, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

Southern Democrat’s arguments even make me stop to think occasionally, and surely I bloviate more than anyone else.

jbmlaw, I agree. There are a few folks on this blog who do put some thought into their positions. You and S Dem are among them. Although I don’t agree with you all the time, I appreciate someone who does more than the old knee-jerk.

(I am not sure I would admit to bloviating on this blog—people will start talking about you! :)

By deegee

July 26, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

RCH, it’s not a bad concept and it has a niche. My only point is that they haven’t quite figured out how to maintain them considering the corrosive nature of salt water.

By Jackie

July 26, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this

It was just reported that Robert Mueller, FBI Director, testified that Alberto Gonzalez lied about his visit to the hospital bed of John Ashcroft. Mr. Gonzalez, visa vie Mr. Bush/Mr Cheney, wanted the signature of Mr. Ashcroft for validation of the illegal acts being perpetrated upon us. Frog-march Dubya, Cheyney, Rove and Alberto!

By Analchord

July 26, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

Fox just reported that another baby has been born at a Waffle House Restaurant. (In dallas).

Strangely, the baby came out mothered, diapered and burped.

By RCH

July 26, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

Catlady

Isn’t that what it is all about. To stop and think about points other than our own. We might not always agree, however a well made argument, even though different than our own commands respect.

Read 3:14. I agreed to buy the first round.

By Lily Toad

July 26, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

@@: I’m a real toad, not a pseudonym for DebbieDoRight. Lily doesn’t refer to white. I named myself after the toadlily plant which grows in my garden. Horny, yes, bi-sexual, no, Debbie’s alter-ego, no. Interested in straight women, no.

By RCH

July 26, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this

Deegee

The composite materials used are unlike steel completely imperviable to salt water.

By Lily Toad

July 26, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this

@@: I’m a real toad, not a pseudonym for DebbieDoRight. Lily doesn’t refer to white. I named myself after the toadlily plant which grows in my garden. Horny, yes, bi-sexual, no, Debbie’s alter-ego, no. Interested in straight women, no.

By Captain Freedom

July 26, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

The Captain is loathe to interrupt today’s little love fest in the Wooten sandbox, but breaking news makes it imperative that I share this for all Freedom Loving True Believers.

It appears the campaign to undermine Our Leader’s Noble Consigliore, Abu Gonzales, has expanded to include a vicious attack from the well-known lying leftist Robert Mueller, head of the Hate Organization known as the FBI. This Islamoloving fascist had the temerity to testify the Abu G lied before Congress yesterday.

As this testimony comes from the man who heads the Jackbooted Thugs responsible for the murders at Waco and Ruby Ridge, the Captain knows just how reliable he is. But look for the Kos-inspired Hate Freaks to use this as yet another bludgeon to hammer the Godly Gonzales.

Now, back to your mutual-admiration party. The Captain never thought he’d see a day when a Godly American like RCH would agree with anything Debbie Does Dallas has to say. It is truly a cold day in hell.

By deegee

July 26, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

RCH, and the challenge is to keep the composite blades competitive with steel in terms of price. There are also environmental challenges but I think it’s an interesting concept and it will have a niche.

By DebbieDoRight

July 26, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

• knew that “she” (the other) was a horny toad. I just didn’t know “she” (the other) was bi-sexual. Thanks for the info…*

Huh? WTF RU talking about?

Sorry, but NoCanDoo. I’m straight…I’m married…I’m shocked by your invitation.:-P

Oh, so now you’re pretending you’re straight!! I’ve heard about people like you, but it’s all good, if your “husband” doesn’t mind then why should I?

You go girl with your straight self!!(WINK, WINK)

By Time for the Toilet Bowl - Pope's Rednecks Guide to Uranus

July 26, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

Well if it isn’t the idiot of the Occident stopping by for a chat and A_nus Horde’s personal love slave.

Poop while you got your head up your @ss would you mind telling Time for the Toilet Bowl to just let go. Nothing worse than a tapeworm thinks he’s made a love connection - trash.

By DebbieDoRight

July 26, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

Debbiedoright — By the way you owe me one. I didn’t get any sleep last night. There wasn’t enough drugs or booze in the house to wipe out the thought of Janet.

LMAO!! That was the point of the post!!

You are a bad girl!!!

Oh I can be much, much worse!!!

By RCH

July 26, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Debbiedoright

I think that is about as bad as it can get. Please, oh please tell me you don’t resemble her.

By the way what is that between you and Lily Toad. I am confused!

By DebbieDoRight

July 26, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Shame on you Captain!! Debbie Doesn’t Do Dallas!!! (Anymore)

Debbie is now a reformed ex-Dallas cowboy Deion Sanders groupie!!! I have seen the light and changed my ways!!

Debbie is now a happily married woman.

But When DebbieDidDoDallasSheDidItDilligently.

By DebbieDoRight

July 26, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

By the way what is that between you and Lily Toad. I am confused!

Me Too. Lily is an long time member of these blogs, I’m relatively new compared to her. She’s a nice lady and doesn’t deserve double @hole’s derisive comments.

Double @hole’s been drinking heavily lately, ever since her steroid abuse scandal. Pretend you don’t see her.

By Captain Freedom

July 26, 2007 5:14 PM | Link to this

The Captain quivered involuntarily at the thought of Debbie Doing So Much So Diligently. Then he remembered that s-e-x is a liberal invention to undermine Our Nation’s moral fiber, and is thus an abomination in the eyes of the Lord.

Swell.

So now, the Captain will be forced to pay someone in leather chaps to discipline him as a well-deserved punishment for his impure thoughts. Well, the Captain will face his punishment like a man. Well, in fact, I will be facing away, so perhaps I should say that I will receive my punishment like a man. Well, a man on his knees, but still a man.

The wages of sin, and all that. I hope I don’t run into that Tranny Brit guy there, though. He has a really skeevy vibe.

By @@

July 26, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this

DebbieDoRight:

I was in no way suggesting that Lily was the toad I spoke about.

My post to catlady’s “dog-do” post was in humor. You are the only other “do” in name who posts here.

Catlady was quick to accuse all conservatives of agreeing with all things Wooten.

You clearly overreacted to my post by calling me an @hole and suggesting that I may be stalking you for sexual reasons. Now you’ve got me pegged as a drunk?????

I have addressed YOU (Debbie) on all of two occasions in the two years I’ve been visiting. Once today, indirectly and with intended HUMOR. The other instance was at luckovich’s and if I recall it was a pleasant exchange regarding your husband Dudley.

I owe you no apology for YOUR outrage.

Have a good day Debs, and never feel the need to avoid me. I’m not really a mean person although “she” (the other) thinks I’m vicious and sneaky.

By time for the truth

July 26, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this

After a very busy afternoon energetically slashing the badly worn illegal tyres on several illegal leeches’ uninsured, likely stolen vehicles who were rather lazily working out of Barak the brainless magic negroes’ GA campaign office as a dusky semi-literate minimum wage rent a crowd (for CNN) of yobbos I venture back on here to find the usual crew of petulant sick child rapists puking up their envious venomous bile about their English conservative superiors. Chemical castration of these sick perverts - Syphilis, Oedipus-NAMBLA and getaturd -is the ONLY way to exact non-restorative justice for their young damaged victims.

Better still lay these three verminous far left gutless linguine spined jackals out on an Amtrak track somewhere in the velvety Dixie dark and have a train of Bush supporting GOP types on their way to laugh about the ludicrous Johnny I always exploit my wife’s cancer Edwards poverty tour race over their puss filled torsos.

By @@

July 26, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

and BTW Debs…

But When DebbieDidDoDallasSheDidItDilligently.

You’ve been gored….

I’ll omit the “toad” reference though out of respect for Lily.

My apologies to everyone else here, but not Debs.

By Analchord

July 26, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this

Vick is the world’s first true triple threat Quarterback: He can pass, run, and fetch!

By @@

July 26, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this

Captain Freedom,

It just so happens that I own a pair of leather chaps. May I please carry out the punishment? No charge.

By Hysterical Liberal Gorebot

July 26, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

Temperatures in Reno are up, according to this propoganda - The average minimum temperature last summer was 59 degrees, almost 10 degrees above the normal minimum temperature recorded from 1971 to 2000, again the biggest difference noted nationally. It’s a trend the group attributes to human-caused climate change and one that will likely produce hotter and hotter temperatures across the Silver State unless things change, members said.

Is that so? Then why is Las Vegas’ maximum average temperature down since 1940?

Never, EVER trust an overemotional liberal.

By Analchord

July 26, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this

Fox just reported that another baby has been born in a waffle house restaurant. The baby came out mothered, diapered and burped.

By Curious Observer

July 26, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this

I can envision the headlines after the installation of RCH’s beloved sea turbines:

Panama City Beach (AP)—Fifty N. Georgians Ground to Death in Sea Turbines; Authorities Say They Couldn’t Read the Warning Signs

By time for the truth

July 26, 2007 6:04 PM | Link to this

peeping tom has been caught at it again!!!

I knew there was something really sick about this leftist maggot!!

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/homepage/x1578449844

By RCH

July 27, 2007 8:15 AM | Link to this

Curious Observer The blades only revolve 8 or 9 times a minute. Studies have shown fish and other sea life are not put in peril.

By Bfrank

July 27, 2007 8:41 AM | Link to this

RCH, don’t confuse libs by presenting them with facts. It makes their head hurt. What they believe is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and that’s all they know. See yesterday’s comment from ‘Hume’ at 3:02pm to my merely presenting the simple fact that 92% of US people travel across state lines via air when cars are excluded. The nut flipped out and started having deranged convulsions and screaming about neocon policies.

By MC

August 12, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

I think it is in our national interest to have a viable rail road system. If you have not traveled by Amtrak, you need to once or twice and then you realize how convenient it really is. Amtrak is dying a slow death because of the shifting federal funds to modernize airports, bridges, etc. Amtrak would be a lot more viable if investments were made to make it so.

Atlanta needs to have high speed services to connect it with Charlotte, Athens, Savannah, Columbus, Birmingham and Chattanooga. Shorter trains and rapid transit and car rental counters….and amatrak is up and away.