Thinking Right

By Harold

July 24, 2007 8:05 AM | Link to this

Harold can’t help wondering if the Woot never lived outside of the South. His writing sure makes it sound that way. He writes in support of cars as if that’s the only thing he’s ever known and just can’t envision anything else. It seems almost as if Woot is writing in support of Oxygen instead of cars. Wondering how/why, Harold looked up Jim Wooten biography. Being the Internets, and with Harold Feeling Lucky, one tube was indeed clogged with it. Boy was Harold surprised by what he found!

Jim Wooten has “filed stories from 60 countries and five continents.” “Wooten’s reports from Rwanda and Zaire… won the Overseas Press Club Award, the Robert F. Kennedy Award and the Joe Alex Morris Award from Harvard University for distinguished foreign reporting.” “Wooten has spent considerable time in Bosnia…El Salvador and Beirut… Nicaragua, Israel… Lebanon… South Africa.” “The 1992 presidential campaign was the seventh Wooten has covered.” During his tenure in London….” Philadelphia… New York… (So many places!! Wow!!) “Wooten and his wife, Patience O’Connor, live in London. They have five daughters and four grandchildren.”

Now hang on, why does Jim live in London and write about utter silliness in Georgia? Maybe Harold is not Feeling so Lucky.

Ohhh, there are TWO Jim Wootens in journalism! Ours is a “native of McRae, Ga.” and worked “at newspapers in Athens, Macon and Atlanta, he [covered] seven Southeastern states… served in the Georgia Army National Guard… Georgia Press Association ..University of Georgia… Georgia Trend… ” AHHH now that makes more sense. A boy from the South who has never experienced anything but driving here in the South writes in support for more driving here in the South.

Jim how about you add a stint in New York or Chicago to your resume and then come back and write about how wonderful it is to waste 90 minutes to 2 hours of each work day in a car. Until then shut up about transportation!

Now what is the price for the Northern Arc? Did you include cars? No. Did you include gasoline? No. Did you include maintenance? No. Include those and your price tag at least double initially and with maintenance and gasoline becomes infinite. As we can see with I-75/575 and the current price tag, the initial costs of land acquisition road construction are just the beginning. They are the toe in the water of the true costs of roads. How about the cost in lives? Build the Northern Arc and start a Northern Arc body count! Lives are worthless once they exit the womb so who cares right?

The idea of an outer perimeter is not a bad one. Building it for cars is where it goes bad. What’s needed is an outer perimeter for freight trains! Atlanta has a huge rail infrastructure. To continue to leave it for freight use that is neither sourced from nor destined for Atlanta is somewhere between absurd and criminally negliglent. Altanta was built at Terminus but those days are long gone. Send freight around Atlanta unless we built it or need it. Take over the existing rail into the city and use it for commuters, meet it up with the Marta Train, shut down Peachtree to cars. Hell shut down the downtown connector too; it’d make a fantasic park! This city could be world class for PEOPLE. Instead it’s a hell hole for cars and OUR Jim Wooten writes almost daily in support of that.

Think of all the time you could save, Jim, on commuter rail. These columns require very little thought. You could write them on the train and have about 10 extra hours EVERY WEEK for the grandchildren. You don’t hate your grandchildren, do you, Jim? It seems like you’d want more time with them. Think of the grandchild that you could save from statistical death in a car crash if you used your influence to change the transportation landscape in Atlanta instead of peddling more of the same based on knowing nothing else. Face facts: Cars kill more Americans than anything else we’ve come up with. Cars kill more Americans every year than terrorism has over the entire lifetime of the United States of America. Take up arms, or rather, legs, against the real enemy of the United States of America: The personal motor vehicle.

Cars are for a drive to the country, or a drive to the big screen TV shoppe, or the lumber yard or hardware store or IKEA. cars are not for going to work every day. You’re headed from the same place to the same place and then going back where you started. Every day. Day in, day out. A car does not add “freedom” to that. A car adds only a vastly increased chance of your death or serious injury. If you see freedom in death, as a suicide bombing terrorist does, then yeah, keep writing in support of cars. If you see freedom in life, you should support commuter rail.

Over in Iraq they use IDEs to kill us. Over here we use MDVs, Manufactured Death Vehicles, commonly referred to as cars. We are our own suicide bombers. They don’t have to kill us over here because we are killing ourselves as fast as we can. We can’t fathom why suicide bombers blow themselves up for their religion but we don’t bat an eyelash at our own suicide ritual (45,000 every year) for nothing more than transportation that is not even convenient anymore! Ever notice that cars aren’t sold on their convenience anymore? Harold noticed. That’s because their convenience is long gone. Now they are sold on luxury features because a comfortable leather seat is the only thing a car can offer that beats commuter rail. Get yourself a stadium seat and ride the dang train. You’ll live longer. Support commuter rail. At least one of your grandchildren’s lives depends on it. If they are all in the SUV when it rolls over, all their lives depend on it.

So, about that Northern Arc. There is already a diamond of Interstates having the endpoints of Atlanta, Chattanooga, Knoxville and Spartanburg NC. There is no “thru-traffic” forced to drive way down to Altanta, around 285, and then back out to the Carolinas. That is pure fiction presented for the geographically ignorant.

The Northern Arc was not built because the right people did not own the land. Now that the right people own the land, the people who make money off building ever more roads are ready to go. Let’s do it, but for freight trains, not cars. We need to get ourselves out of our cars for routine predictable travel, our commutes, and save the cars for the weekend. Get the trains out of Atlanta and take the existing rail. Building thru-traffic rail around the city should be cheap and easy. It’s not too late for that.

And just think.. Think Right.. If we were not having people maimed almost to death on a daily basis, the Grady could go away now couldn’t it?

If we just can’t stomach all our grandchildren surviving to adulthood, let’s at least go further with this toll road concept. ALL roads should be toll roads. There should zero taxes for roads. Make roads pay for themselves. Nobody recognizes the true costs of driving because half of it gets paid at the grocery store, the Best Buy, and the income taxes. Any true conservative would dump his car immediately if all the car costs were in the car column of his Microsoft Money. Toll roads everywhere! Except Peachtree. No cars on Peachtree by July 4, 2012!!!

By Analchord

July 24, 2007 8:12 AM | Link to this

Build the Northern Arc? They could accomplish the same alleviation of traffic congestion simply by putting up a yeild sign at Holcomb Bridge and 400.

word.

By Mid-South Philosopher

July 24, 2007 8:13 AM | Link to this

Good morning, Jim,

With respect to your comments about the Northern Arc….AMEN!

By deegee

July 24, 2007 8:23 AM | Link to this

I will always remember back a few years ago when a guy gave me his opinion on why we really needed the Northern Arc. He lived in Lawrenceville and his grandmama lived in Cartersville. He would go visit her every Thanksgiving and Christmas and he liked the idea of saving himself 40 minutes on each trip. I didn’t bother asking him whether he thought that the $10.00 toll was worth more than 80 minutes of his time because I figured I already knew the answer to that question.

By Harold

July 24, 2007 8:26 AM | Link to this

HAROLD YOU NUMBNUT.. PEOPLE DRIVE CARS SO THEY DONT HAVE TO BE AROUND BLACK FOLK, NO MATTER THE COST. YOU HAVE TO GET RID OF ALL THE BLACK FOLK FIRST BEFORE ANYBODY WILL RIDE A COMMUTER TRAIN.

THE NORTHERN ARC IS TRICKILY CALLED THE ARK BECAUSE IT IS THE LAST HOPE FOR THE WHITES TO ESCAPE THE SEA OF BLACKS!

BUILD THE ARK! WHITE POWER!

By JH

July 24, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this

Jim Wooten wrote, “We don’t have the money to build an east-west connector,” said board Chairman Mike Evans of Cumming, who regards the project as a “perfect” candidate for private-sector involvement.

Of course you don’t have the money, Mr. Evans. It takes tax revenues to maintain a first class public system. But forget first-class — our roads, bridges, airports, and other systems have been allowed to deteriorate even as traffic has steadily increased. Our local and national “leaders” have squandered trillions of dollars from our public treasury on special tax breaks for corporations, as well as on senseless wars and boondoggles, while letting the basics of government service slide. Now we’re at a crisis point.

The federal highway system (established by that wild-eyed, tax-and-spend liberal, Dwight Eisenhower, in 1956), is the chief national source of money for building and repairing roads, bridges, and mass transit systems. It is financed by an excise tax that has stood at 18.4 cents on a gallon of gasoline since 1993. Today, that’s only about 6% of what it costs for a gallon of regular gasoline — down from the 10% rate of taxation that Ike and Congress established when the fund was created.

In 2005, when Congress was about to replenish the dwindling trust fund with an increase of 4 cents per gallon, President Bush killed the hike with a veto threat. As a result, a fund with a $23 billion surplus when Bush came into office will be broke when he leaves, running a deficit of nearly $2 billion in 2009 and $8 billion the next year.

If you’re an anti-government, privatization zealot (like Mr. Wooten and friends), those are joyous numbers, for they mean that state and local officials are more vulnerable than ever to your pitch that public assets are better placed in corporate hands. For years, such corporate- funded think tanks as the Reason Foundation have dreamed of the moment when they could impose their ideology on the public — and here it is.

“Trust us,” they’re cooing into the ears of governors, mayors, and other officials who are looking at massive transportation needs. These sirens of corporatization sing softly, “We have the perfect, painless solution. All you have to do is to turn over that toll road (either by sale or long-term lease) to GlobalGigantica, Inc., which will pay a pretty penny for it. You’ll get money for your public treasury, you’ll lose your migraine headache, the magic of free enterprise will deliver greater efficiency and lower costs, and an adoring public will shower you with rose petals, hosannas, and votes.”

There are, however, problems —

First, the corporate owners get monopolistic control of prime routes of travel. This provides a steady (and steadily increasing) flow of tens of thousands of captive customers every day. Such scarcity power is the antithesis of free markets.

Second — and this is the biggest factor of all — private owners get to raise toll rates on a captive audience with impunity. Elected officials are wary of hiking tolls because of the political backlash they can suffer, and the better pols actually care about keeping costs affordable. But corporations are not subject to the electorate and thus have no qualms about stiffing the public.

When the hucksters tout the advantages of privatization, it’s this political immunity that they actually highlight. Corporations, they exult, are able to amass private investment funds to build or repair roads because they are free to raise tolls. They invariably claim that it will be in the public interest because “everyone knows” that corporations are more efficient than government. The reality is that the corporate operator not only has to cover the fixed costs of operating a road system, but it also must satisfy its shareholders with ever-expanding profits.

Third, if a free-wheeling ability to jack up tolls is not enough to fatten the investors’ bottom line, corporations receive two other advantages that the privatizers don’t like to mention. The new operators receive hundreds of millions of dollars in tax breaks, and instead of staffing the system with full-time public employees getting decent wages and benefits, these private operators shift to low-wage, part-time workers with no benefits. So taxpayers subsidize the conversion to “free enterprise,” and the reward to the community is lower paying jobs.

Fourth, the profits are astronomical. Business Week magazine notes that Cintra-MIG’s investment in the Indiana Toll Road “could break even in year 15 of the 75-year lease, on the way to reaping as much as $21 billion in profits.” In sum, the state of Indiana got $3.8 billion in exchange for inflicting much higher tolls on its citizens, thus producing $21 billion in profits that will benefit a handful of foreign investors rather than the Indiana people.

Of course, laissez-faire ideologues are not bothered either by any concerns about the public interest. They view our roads, airports, and such strictly as commodities that should be put on the market for the enrichment of wealthy investors. Meanwhile, instead of providing universal public benefits, our prime transportation routes will be priced at what the market will bear. Working stiffs (i.e. you and me), small businesses (from truckers to maid services), and others — the majority — will be economically burdened or forced onto clogged side roads.

We’ll also be giving up any semblance of democratic control, ceding decision making over fundamentally public matters to self-interested private executives cloistered inside board rooms. With long-term leases, decisions about major repairs or expansion 10, 20, or 30 years from now will rest not on public need, but on what will make the most profit for the shareholders. The corporation can refuse to add lanes, can raise tolls to do so, or can even sell its lease to another party that might choose to cover its cost of purchase by lowering the quality of service.

These are the people’s assets — belonging not just to all of us here today, but to those who went before and to all those yet to come. Politicians need to know that these are not “theirs” to sell, that no one can “own” our public assets as their private property. Where are the Rooseveltian Democrats who’ll stand up to the profiteers and rally the people to reclaim and reinvest in our public infrastructure? We can’t wait on the pols to come to us.

By Rod

July 24, 2007 8:28 AM | Link to this

Wow, Jim finally admits that the Republicans have screwed us over! There may be hope for him yet!

BTW, Harold, your posts are usually fairly interesting - but please don’t make them that long. No one bothers to read a post that long and it just makes it harder to read other posts.

By Redneck Convert

July 24, 2007 8:32 AM | Link to this

I see crazy Harold is back on his rant for us to give up cars and ride the train. Well, I wouldn’t ride a train with all Those People if they come to pick me up at the trailer in a limo every day.

A real conservative drives a pickup to work every day. He don’t stand around waiting for a train to stop for him. We don’t need to be wasting tax money on pleasing city folk that want to travel on our dime. We already got MARTA and all it is, is free cab service for Those People and libruls like Harold.

So what if a few people get kilt while they drive. They wouldn’t be so dead if they drove big pickups. That way they could be the ones doing the killing.

Anyway, this is the most worst column Wooten has wrote in a long time. I hope the loony TFTT or the blockhead RCH or maybe Van or Dusty come along and bring up something intrusting for people to fuss about today. Its for sure road building got no intrust.

The missus watched the libruls debate last night. Me, I just turned my back to the TV and stuffed cotton in my ears. I don’t need to see or hear a bunch of godless commies that don’t support the war and run down My President and want to turn us into a Northren state of Mexico. I done learnt everything I need to know about the election. Ain’t nobody can make me vote for a librul. You could put Satan with horns on the ballot and call him a Republican and I’d vote for him. I’m for the good Southren way of life—pickup trucks, grits, keeping Those People in their place, and plenty of beer and pork rinds.

By Harold's an idiot

July 24, 2007 8:33 AM | Link to this

Harold, you’re might stupid there. You’re spouting off about the evils of cars and all – and then you criticize the Northern Arc. Listen, dimwit, the arc will keep people off the road! The point of the arc is so someone doesn’t drive down 85, across 285 and then back up 75. They can just cut across the arc. This would save 30 – 60 minutes each way. That’s less time driving – isn’t that your supposed goal? If you really wanted cars off the road, you would realize the arc is what’s needed for that. But then again, you’re just an ignorant red-neck without a clue in the world.

By Rod

July 24, 2007 8:39 AM | Link to this

Hey Redneck Convert - you already got your wish (You could put Satan with horns on the ballot and call him a Republican and I’d vote for him.)back in 2000 - and he even won!

By Bill in Cumming, GA

July 24, 2007 8:42 AM | Link to this

The Northern Arc should focus on freight rail traffic, which will result in the ability to abandon the downtown connector and landscape it?? Sheesh!

* << Bill thinks Harold penned his manifesto in the midst of an acid flashback. >> *

I often wonder if the “no new lanes” folks would openly acknowledge the incredible improvement in traffic congestion provided by the new lanes added to GA 400. Gee… more lanes worked. Imagine that.

By Analchord

July 24, 2007 8:43 AM | Link to this

What we need is another spaghetti junction.

‘nuff said.

By AmVet

July 24, 2007 8:43 AM | Link to this

…rescued the U.S. Senate from the embarrassment of its Iraqi slumber party stunt…

Uh, Mr. Wooten, the spineless rubber-stamp US Senate’s embarrassment goes infinitely deeper and far predates the “slumber party”.

Only a GOP hack would spin the fact that they have been completely ineffective and god-awful bad for a decade or more.

IMHO almost without exception any member of that august body, Democrat or Republican, that voted to authorize you-know-who to do you-know-what deserves to be unemployed as soon as possible.

By catlady

July 24, 2007 8:46 AM | Link to this

*A link between I-75 and I-85 across North Georgia is the state’s most important congestion-relief, economic development and quality-of-life opportunity. *

*Except for those of us who live there! * Please, don’t be so parochial and think that “Georgia” means “Atlanta”. There are a lot of us out there who do not want to be part of the hell-hole. (We have our own, different types of “hell” where we live, thank you very much.

By harold

July 24, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this

More lanes mean more cars.

Build more accessibility to any area and then that area becomes more expensive and people move just beyond it where they can afford a house.

Affordability is always only a traffic jam away. “More lanes” just relocates it for a while.

If Alpharetta becomes accessible, people move just thru the traffic to Forsyth. If Cumming becomes more accessible, people move just thru the traffic to Dawnsonville.

Atlanta can’t expand forever, except that it actually can physically. The idiots wanting more and more raods to expand it forever and just making Atlanta useless.

Yes, get commuters out of cars. Shut down Peachtree downtown! Shut down the connector! Make them all into parks!

By Analchord

July 24, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this

All they need for the Northern arc would be a bike path like the Silver Comet Trail. The chinese proved this many times over, man. Look to the East!

By Billy

July 24, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

Contrary to much ideological misinformation from the right, in many cases, government actually lowers the cost of doing business in the private sector. One way that they do this is by building and maintaining infrastructure — roads, bridges, locks and dams — that makes private commerce less costly.

E-commerce may be a modern wonder, but let’s not lose sight of the fact that after you order a book from Amazon, it will be dispatched from a distribution center in a truck barreling along Interstate 20. In the 1950s and 1960s, new roads, including the interstate highway system, accounted for a significant fraction of new capital created in the United States. And that investment in infrastructure is associated with large increases in our economy’s productivity — increases from which we all benefit.

Government roads provide benefits long after they’re paid for while private roads continue collecting tolls in order to maximize their profits. Even if we’ve never driven on a particular highway, we still benefit from it being there. By placing highways into the hands of profit-driven companies, we increase the price of commerce and hurt productivity in the long-run.

By zeke

July 24, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this

Good opinion from Jim. The worst mistake made in the Atlanta area transportation plan was the scuttling of the outer perimeter, then the northern arc. The outer perimeter, or, a form of it with direct from interstate to interstate roads needs to be built immediately! Hov lanes need to be eliminated! Ridiculous interchanges need to be re-engineered by someone with common sense! Access to the outer perimeter, or, the northern arc must be strictly limited to only major roads like 400, 985, 75, etc. Commuter rail is wastefull, inefficient and will never work! There was a full page article, opinion in the AJC and the Wall Street Journal 4 or 5 years ago by an engineer who was, was, one of the biggest proponents of commuter rail! In that article he completely debunked the idea of rail for public transportation, and, his opposition to wasting billions of taxpayer money to build it!

By DebbieDoRight

July 24, 2007 8:55 AM | Link to this

Jim “Holier Than Thou” Wooten: Since everyone on this blog knows how you support justice and the “personal responsibility” theme, (except in the case of republicans), why haven’t we heard one word about David McDade, (Douglas County DA), and the child porn controversy?

You, as the bright beacon of Republican responsibility, should know better than anyone that ignorance of the law does not negate the crime. G. Wilson was ignorant of the law, but was lambasted by you countless times for his conduct. You stated such grandiose themes as, “personal responsiblity”, “paying for the crime”, “doing the right thing”, you said these so much that you’ve made me into a true believer too. (Not to mention how many times in the past few days you’ve lambasted Vick)

So now I’m downright confused that you haven’t said one word about David McDade!! Why a District Attorney of the State of Georgia should know the law better than any lay person!! But he, McDade shows no remorse for his actions, (remember like Scooter, Vick and Wilson), denies knowledge, (like Scooter, Vick and Wilson), and is generally giving the middle finger to the law his swore to upheld, (Like Scooter).

You Wooten, with your holy sanctiminous rantings over the Vick and Wilson cases should be the main one who would want to speak out for injustice done to the young ladies in the Wilson case, whose images McDade didn’t even deign to blur before he sent out the tapes, but who he said he was fighting for justice for!!!

If I didn’t know any better, Wooten, I would think you’re nothing more than a backwater, overpaid, hack — who has no sense of justice, only a sense of entitlement. But of course I know better and I know that you’re just a guy who is suffering from dementia and the dreaded dual diseases of Republicanism and cronyism.

So this one’s for you Wooten, I’m gonna help you with your next column:

SAVE David McDade from child porn!!. Please don’t thank me, I do this out of a sincere desire to think “Right”.

By Richard

July 24, 2007 8:57 AM | Link to this

Mr. Wooten, Harold has an excellent point.

As a native Atlantan myself who has lived many years in New York City, London, San Francisco as well as having traveled to over 25 countries for business and pleasure, I agree it gives you a MUCH wider perspective.

Please do yourself and the readers a favor - get on a plane and GET OUT more and see that total auto dependence is not NORMAL nor is it desirable. Once you’ve done so, then we might respect your point of view a bit more.

By harold

July 24, 2007 8:58 AM | Link to this

FOR THE GEOGRAPHICALLY CHALLENGED THERE IS ALREADY FREEWAY ACCESS FROM KNOXVILLE TO SPARTANBURG! THERE IS NO THRU TRAFFIC THAT HEADS DOWN TO I-285 AND AROUND AND THEN OUT I-85 UNLESS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT MARIETTANS! BUT THE FUNNY THING IS I-75 RUNS STRAIGHT WEST FROM JUST NORTH OF MARIETTA! NOBODY IS GOIGN TO DRIVE 10 MILES WEST SO THEY COULD THEN GO NORTH TO TRAVEL EAST! NORTHERN ARC IS A LAND SALES BOONDOGGLE PURE AND SIMPLE

By Richard

July 24, 2007 8:58 AM | Link to this

Mr. Wooten, Harold has an excellent point.

As a native Atlantan myself who has lived many years in New York City, London, San Francisco as well as having traveled to over 25 countries for business and pleasure, I agree it gives you a MUCH wider perspective.

Please do yourself and the readers a favor - get on a plane and GET OUT more and see that total auto dependence is not NORMAL nor is it desirable. Once you’ve done so, then we might respect your point of view a bit more.

By Concerned

July 24, 2007 8:58 AM | Link to this

Northern Arc——great idea—-I feer w e have waited to long. Some of you need to speak less and listen more.

By Chuck A

July 24, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this

Spartanburg moved to NC?

Harold must not live in Gwinnett. Anyone that lives in Gwinnett and needs to head up I-75 knows that the first two hours of your trip will get you to Kennesaw.

By Analchord

July 24, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this

The ancient Romans built roads, but they made the mistake of building a northern arc across the alps, and look what happened: Hannibal and those confounded elephants invaded on that very road.

Our system of roads simply doesn’t work. What, we’re supposed to drive where the road goes? What’s THAT about?

By Van

July 24, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this

catlady,

That might be true, but I drove Georgia 120 from my home in Snellville, picked it up near I-85, to Alpharetta for over 7 years. A truly disturbing drive. It was only 25 miles, but it took between 60 and 90 minutes each way. The new and improved States Bridge road is better, but is still plagued with lawn care trucks, construction vehicles, school buses and mommies in their mini vans driving their little darlings to school(except summer of course).

I am sure the folks that live around and along Georgia 120, 20 and States Bridge just love the traffic. The Northern Arc, if not built too far out, would alleviate a lot of their headaches.

By Richard

July 24, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this

Mr. Wooten, Harold has an excellent point.

As a native Atlantan myself who has lived many years in New York City, London, San Francisco as well as having traveled to over 25 countries for business and pleasure, I agree it gives you a MUCH wider perspective.

Please do yourself and the readers a favor - get on a plane and GET OUT more and see that total auto dependence is not NORMAL nor is it desirable. Once you’ve done so, then we might respect your point of view a bit more.

By Elizabeth

July 24, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this

JH and Billy are absolutely correct. There’s a bigger issue here than just the Northern Arc. The Georgia D.O.T. has committed that all new highways and interstate lanes will be toll roads or toll lanes. They’re leasing the land to private companies who will proft from their monolopy power over specific routes.

The idea of privatizing the highways and interstates that serve as the foundation to our economic infrastructure will be terrible for both individuals who use those roads and the rest of us who benefit from them — whether we drive on them or not.

If you’re not outraged by this, you should be.

By Chris

July 24, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this

The Northern Arc should be built so the people of the Metro Area have options. In addition, additional crosstown transit options should be constructed, perhaps rail along 285 and buses in the less dense areas up north.

The region needs a multi-faceted approach to transportation: more roads, more trains, more buses, more options. Not everyone will ride a bus or a train, but it would sure as heck be nice to have the choice.

Gas taxes, the ultimate user fee, should be raised. If you dont like it, dont buy gas. How will you get around? Use transit. How do we get more transit? Change state law to allow us to use money to build transit in addition to roads!

It takes time and there’s no simple solution, but if we wait another 20 years the situation will be even nastier.

By catlady

July 24, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this

We have our own, different types of “hell” where we live, thank you very much.

To ennumerate: the hell of incredible quiet (you should try it, with no auto noise in the background), the hell of hearing the neighbor’s car turn off the paved road a mile away and be able to tell it is his, the hell of seeing stars at night, the hell of only 6 stoplights in the county (4 of those put in in the last 10 years) and being in a “long line” of cars (6), the hell of being able to hear—all over town— the church bells playing hymns every day at 9 and 12. Give me those kinds of hell, rathr than the “economic development” (code name for someone else making money off of me) and “quality of life” (meaning someone living here and commuting to Atlanta every day, befouling things both here and there).

Keep Atlanta’s mess in Atlanta. Don’t export it like some hellacious smallpox on the rest of us.

By Richard

July 24, 2007 9:06 AM | Link to this

Mr. Wooten, Harold has an excellent point.

As a native Atlantan myself who has lived many years in New York City, London, San Francisco as well as having traveled to over 25 countries for business and pleasure, I agree it gives you a MUCH wider perspective.

Please do yourself and the readers a favor - get on a plane and GET OUT more and see that total auto dependence is not NORMAL nor is it desirable. Once you’ve done so, then we might respect your point of view a bit more.

By harold

July 24, 2007 9:08 AM | Link to this

If they really are making all roads into toll roads that’s the best thing that will ever have come out of the GDOT!

HOWEVER, that’s only with effective public transit being available.

Gub’ment needs to get out of incomplete transportation systems. PRIVATE cars belong on PRIVATE roads. Public money if spent on transportation belongs ONLY in public transportation.. public routes… public vehicles. Not transportation money spent as subsidies for automobile makers and sellers!!

By Curious Observer

July 24, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

You can gain an idea of the glories of toll roads by traveling the Florida Turnpike from its beginning below Ocala. By the time you reach West Palm Beach, you’re out almost 20 bucks. It’s a legal shakedown.

But the neocons hate taxes. Consequently, they’re willing to shift any cost burden to the little people who must travel the toll roads to make a living.

What could be better for a neocon than a toll-funded Northern Arc? The fat cats like TFTT and jbmlaw avoid taxes for needed infrastructure. Oh, yes, they love to talk about economic expansion—it’s just that they don’t want to pay for it. Well-heeled investors in the project add to their wealth. The only losers are the poor suckers who don’t have a few hundred thousand dollars invested in stocks and bonds.

If it’s really needed as a public good, the Northern Arc ought to be funded by taxes. But that’s not how things work in Georgia. Just look at the toll portion of Georgia 400 as an example. It was all right for people in north Fulton and Forsyth to pay taxes for years to underwrite downtown roads and super-highways through abandoned cotton fields in the southern portion of the state. But let those people be in need of a more direct route to Atlanta and they get a toll road.

Don’t tax you, don’t tax me; tax that fellow behind the tree. And that fellow behind the tree just happens to be the working stiff, who will never win in the neocon world.

By CJ

July 24, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this

Here are my suggestions to the DOT: - Build the northern arc to connect I-75 and I-85 north of Atlanta.

• Build the ‘western arc’ to connect I-75 near Kennesaw with I-185 and I-85 at LaGrange. Lets re-route people passing through around Atlanta.

• Build the ‘eastern arc’ to connect I-85 with I-75 near Morrow. Same reasons.

• Build passenger trains to connect Atlanta to Chattanooga, Atlanta to Athens, Atlanta to Columbus, and Atlanta to Birmingham.

By Jeff

July 24, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this

I lived in Cartersville for most of my 24+ years (now in Central and South GA), and had relatives that I visited often - at least once a month - in both Canton and Cumming.

BUILD THE NORTHERN ARC ALREADY!!!!

While the drive on Ga20 CAN be decent at times, if you get stuck behind someone going 15mph, you are indeed STUCK for generally 5 - 10 miles miles. And the sad fact is that the Northern Arc has always been designed to roughly parallel that road!

It is - and always has been - a small group (in my experience, less than 50 people) of vocal NIMBYs that have derailed what the VAST majority of the populations of Bartow, Cherokee, and Forsyth counties want.

And please, rail people, you’ve got to learn to let go. Rail only makes sense if you have a concentrated work area or a concentrated area where people live. Metro Atlanta has NEITHER, so just drop it already.

By Analchord

July 24, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this

Road Rage.

I sell cars. I was on a test drive with this woman who had her infant in a car seat in the back. The child seat didn’t fit right, so the sale was toast, but I took the last shot I had and convinced her to at least drive the car.

She was a pleasant enough woman until we turned right out of the dealership. Then her entire countenance changed and she started making loud hysterical comments about other drivers. She complained bitterly about traffic, made threats, ridiculed taxi drivers, and swore oaths of vengence the entire five minutes of the test drive.

We returned and she put her infant back in the buggie. She was pleasant again, with no acknowledgement that she crossed the line with a total stranger sitting next to her during the test drive.

What is it with some Type-A control freaks? I know at least three of my family members do this same thing. They have to make enraged comments about traffic when they drive.

Looking back, it’s a good thing I never mentioned the Northern Arc during THAT test drive, eh?

By Chris

July 24, 2007 9:22 AM | Link to this

The Northern Arc should be built so the people of the Metro Area have options. In addition, additional crosstown transit options should be constructed, perhaps rail along 285 and buses in the less dense areas up north.

The region needs a multi-faceted approach to transportation: more roads, more trains, more buses, more options. Not everyone will ride a bus or a train, but it would sure as heck be nice to have the choice.

Gas taxes, the ultimate user fee, should be raised. If you dont like it, dont buy gas. How will you get around? Use transit. How do we get more transit? Change state law to allow us to use money to build transit in addition to roads!

It takes time and there’s no simple solution, but if we wait another 20 years the situation will be even nastier.

By Mad as Hell

July 24, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this

Excellent post, Curious Observer. But if all goes well in neocon world, it won’t just be the working stiffs who suffer. We’ll all be paying for those roads in the form of higher prices, an economy with stunted growth and a spot on our souls for making our children and grandchildren pay to use roads built during our tenure while we’ve been getting to use roads, built by our parents and grandparents, for free.

By harold

July 24, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this

spartanburg is in one of the carolinas. if its in SC then its even closer and the northern ark is even stupider!

nobody lives in gwinnett except mexicans. and they only want a southern arc to mexico. if you build a highway from gwinnett towards dalton congrats on making it easier for the vans full of illegals to work at the carpet mills.

you dont want to make it easier for vans full of illegals do you? NO! so no northern arc.

By Renee

July 24, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

Analchord - you mean to say that you took a woman and her child on a test drive even though the child seat didn’t fit right? That’s criminal!

By NARC Mania

July 24, 2007 9:28 AM | Link to this

That’s it Jim- we just need more roads, more lanes. Heck why not just make I75 a double decker highway and make it 48 lanes on each side- we should do it now right? Before land gets too expensive. While we are at it lets create a north northern arc so we can connect Blue Ridge with Augusta.

More lanes are temporary fixes people- at some point you run out of land, can’t fit any more lanes, and can’t pay to support the infrastructure. Sure some roads need more lanes- but big fixes will require big changes. People need to live closer to their jobs or be willing to take rail. At the very least put some pressure on your county commission to limit the new subdivisions popping up everywhere.

I live 2 miles from my job- it costs me a lot more to do that, but when I’m at home with my family, instead of a car looking at angry drivers, I know I made the right choice.

By harold

July 24, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

“Florida Turnpike from its beginning below Ocala. By the time you reach West Palm Beach… legal shakedown”

This is what Harold is talking about! Once drivers see the TRUE costs of their road use, they don’t want to use roads anymore. It’s not just the $3 a gallon for gasoline!!!!

All roads should be toll roads. NO TAXES FOR ROADS WITH PRIVATE CARS ON THEM!

END ROADS WELFARE NOW!!!

By R.J.

July 24, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this

Curious Observer nailed it. For a peek into the future, take a drive down the Florida Turnpike — don’t forget to bring cash.

Or — come to think of it — save your money and use the clogged alternatives (tip: you won’t like them much either).

By harold

July 24, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this

state law should BAN the use of money for roads. roads are not a transportation SYSTEM. alone, roads are useless!! they don’t go nowhere! they just sit there.

why allow the government to provide a nonsystem and put the largest share of the burden on the indivual? they are sticking you with the costs of a car and calling it transportation! harold calls that bullsheet!

By harold

July 24, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this

the florida turnpike simply reveals the true cost of roads!! that’s all! you pay as much for a drive down I-75, but you pay it via form 1040 so you dont realize it

By Jeff

July 24, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this

Also, Mr. Wooten, one objection:

Truly public commodities such as roads and water should NEVER be privatized under ANY circumstances. You want to fund it with a toll, that’s fine. But make the agency in charge of said toll a GOVERNMENT agency, preferably one already in existence.

The potential for abuse is simply too high. While this is true no matter who controls it, at least with government we can subject them to Open Records laws and potentially boot them out at the ballot box.

BTW: A message to DebbieDoRight regarding the Wilson/ McDade saga: McDade was doing is JOB as a government employee of the STATE OF GEORGIA. The STATE OF GEORGIA has Open Records laws that REQUIRED him to give the tape to any who asked to see it. Got a problem with his actions? Your beef is not with him, it is with the General Assembly.

By Analchord

July 24, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this

I know. The childseat didn’t quite fit, and the child’s head was sort of dangling out the window, but it seemed safe, so we went anyway.

I dont know, sometimes I just wanna say F it, you know?

By Grob Hahn

July 24, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

Yes, a commuter rail system would save us all kinds of traffic grief. But so far, MARTA is all we have and it sucks. The stopping points are selected by cronies pandering for votes, not by actual research. However, look at the subway system for ANY major city in America, they ALL suck and for many of the same reasons; lack of security, lack of cleanliness oh and LACK OF SECURITY!!!

GH

By smilesterr

July 24, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this

Why build a northern Arc?? The rampant and incontrolled growth of Atlanta has finally been slowed by natural “barriers” of both traffic volume and distance.

You talk about quality of life? Why not move to another city that provides you with the lifestyle you are looking for. I for one, have reached a compromise where I have moved to the furthest distance “out” from the city that I can afford to live in order to protect both my children and to offer them the quality of life they should have in my opinion.

As a native Atlantan, I have seen the destruction of overcrowding for the sake if maximizing potential opportunities for work, social activities, etc. Look at Los Angeles for a good example of how added travel capacity has to the detriment of the area. One of the saving graces of this town is that you can still maintain a non urban lifestyle for you family, if you are willing to drive far enough. Moving traffic to the suburbs will only drive many of those like me even further out or possibly away from this metroplex.

I for one am greatly against the Northern Arc.

By harold

July 24, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

Harolds NC after Spartanburg was an internets abbreviation for NO CRAP, as in there is a traffic diamond … NO CRAP, not North Carolina. geez.

By Jeff

July 24, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

NARC:

Personally, I LIKE living so far away from work. It gives me plenty of time to decompress before I get home and deal with the family. This way, while I am TIRED when I get home, I’m not tense/angry/upset when I get home. In other words, the miles act as a good, solid barrier between work and home, and that, IMHO, is best for ALL concerned. (In the mornings I don’t bring family stress to work, and in the evenings - as mentioned - work stress does not come home.) Throughout my professional career, I have maintained a MINIMUM distance of 30 miles between work and home, and usually 60+ miles. (85 miles Cartersville - Covington, 65 miles Albany - Cuthbert, 30 miles Warner Robins - Macon, and soon it will be 105 miles Leesburg - Macon.) All in all, the miles serve their purpose. Though the 85 miles Cartersville- Covington often took me at LEAST double the amount of time Leesburg - Macon takes!

By DebbieDoRight

July 24, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

Jeff — Federal law beats state law every time. McDade knew that. IF he weas so concerned about the justice for the “victims” of the Wilson case, then why didn’t he at least blur their faces before he sent the tapes out?

BTW: Georgia National Guard is paid for by the State of Georgia, but the DOD can call it up and snatch it up at any time without the consent of the state’s governor.

By Dusty

July 24, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

Well, as to my “esteemed” opinion on the Northern Arc and whether it should be built:

I DON’T KNOW. (Honesty is the best policy!)

CatLady’s home sounds wonderful BUT does she have to drive miles and miles for concerts, museums, universities, hospitals, doctors, gas stations and grocery stores?

While the tremors and noise of I285 infect my humble abode, I am not quite ready to move to the “hills”. Living close to this jaded metropolis of ours (ATL) is not perfect. But…the thought of adding more roads does not sound like a step towards perfection. Traffic is crazy. Roads get jammed. Citizens arrive daily in the hundreds. If all roads led out of town, one way, a solution might be found, (perhaps a dead end drop off in Forsyth county by a certain trailer park with beer truck).

So….should the Northern Arc be built to lead traffic away from Atlanta or cross country or something?? I DON’T KNOW. (Honesty is the best policy.)

By RCH

July 24, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

Jeff Truly public commodities such as roads and water should NEVER be privatized under ANY circumstances. You want to fund it with a toll, that’s fine. But make the agency in charge of said toll a GOVERNMENT agency, preferably one already in existence.The potential for abuse is simply too high. While this is true no matter who controls it, at least with government we can subject them to Open Records laws and potentially boot them out at the ballot box. Ga.400 toll receipts where supposed to used only for that said project. Once paid for the toll would be removed. And what did we find? Politicians trying to use that money to pay for pet road projects. I think it would be easier to monitor private enterprises.

Lets look at the facts; Atlanta is growing, more cars will travel the streets, more streets will be needed or we will have the same gridlock we have today on a much bigger scale. That’s all there is to it.

By JNH

July 24, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

By DebbieDoRight July 24, 2007 8:55 AM You, as the bright beacon of Republican responsibility, should know better than anyone that ignorance of the law does not negate

Thanks for bringing this up Debbie. I attempted to initiate some discussion regarding this issue 7/16/05 (12:25PM) on the Luckovich blog. I checked the blog later in the day; evidentally other issues were more prevalent. I assumed it would surface again. At any rate, where is the outrage?

By Analchord

July 24, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

God told Moses to build an arc once.

By Jeff

July 24, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

DebbieDoRight:

Federal law beats state law every time.

Actually, that is the subject of much legal debate. Yes, you have Article VI which states “This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

HOWEVER, you also have Ammendments IX and X which state “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. and The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people., respectively.

I would argue that the right to an Open Government is one right of the people which is not enumerated in the Constitution, and therefore the National government has no right to “deny or disparage” said right of the people. I would further argue that since the right of Open Government is not “delegated to the United States by the Constitution”, it is a right that is reserved to the State and the people and therefore the National government cannot abridge it.

The way I see it, the issue is mentioned 3 times in the Constitution, and in a 2-1 split, the State wins the fight.

By Dennis

July 24, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this

Today, using the guise of traffic congestion around Atlanta, Mr. Wooten writes about the need for a “Northern Arc”, an “Outer Perimeter across North Georgia.

But, given his history, what Mr. Wooten really is interested in is this; “The Northern Arc idea being discussed now is a toll road, a public-private initiative that would rely on the private sector to finance construction.”

In short, let’s destroy more of our scenic mountain area, and whatever the quality of life for nature and the residents that is left in our mountains (which ain’t what it used to be), and let some private individuals make money via a “toll road”.

WHY, OH WHY, can’t some individuals, just get it that sometimes more development in sensitive areas, for example Jekyll Island, is not the thing to do?

In fact, just to leave some things alone, THAT would be PROGRESS.

You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.

By harold

July 24, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

your move out of the city to “protect” your children only increases their chances of death!

children get killed by cars, pure and simple. that’s how they die.

when you move out to car-land, you are killing your children

By Dusty

July 24, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

Aw come on Debbie Do Right,

You love a fight and you are trying to start one. If ever there was a case that the public was tired of hearing about as a publicity loving lawyer turns down every effort to free Genarlo Wilson from jail, this one is it.

Wilson was guilty. The distractions you mention don’t change that. Neither do protests. Pictures did not make the case. Wilson’s actions did. Justice continues to evolve.

But, let’s talk about roads and byways today,hmmm?? This isn’t your piece of cake but try it..

By deegee

July 24, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

At the time that the Outer Perimeter was conceived during the 1970s, its purpose was primarily a developmental highway. At that time Holcomb Bridge Road was in the sticks and there was nothing in Alpharetta except horse farms and the Dixie Diner. Thirty years later, the area is developed and it’s too late for an outer perimeter in the proposed area. Get the freight off of Hwy 20 by investing in rail transportation and make the necessary improvements to HWY 20. More roads mean more development. That might be good for the money men that run the state, but it isn’t doing much to solve a problem for the people that have to live and work in it.

By Bury Bush hating liberals and harold the nutter in the Northern Arc concrete

July 24, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

THE NORTHERN ARC IS VITAL … the morons of both parties who vetoed it and opposed it were completely wrong. It will provide a much needed corridor to avoid metro ATL and the 285 hell hole for those on their way to the I-85 corridor and the illegal leeches/third world delights of uppity yanKKKee infested Gwinnett and the Carolinas from NW GA/TN/AL etc. It will also happily reduce the number of potential car jacking victims in ATL/Fulton Co who might have had to have stopped in that gangbanging hippety hop sh!tehole for petrol or some vile fast food prepared by sullen ebonics spouting morons. Also inbred rednekkk will have an easier journey from Adairsville to its fiery cross burning workshops in Virginia Highlands as there will be less traffic on I-75. And I will be able to drive my Jap car and Jap truck with less traffic too when I need to - a win win situation for everyone.

Nice to see snivelling MoRoN rod puked up the exact same witless drivel 8 or 9 times - I stopped counting its crap after swiftly skimming over about 5 of its imbecilic posts … way to go MoRoN rod … a good for nothing at all mentally constipated liberal parrot.

peeping tom is NOT quite as hateful today as it was yesterday - it must have purged all its bile yesterday - but wait a few hours and it will be back to its visceral hatepig far left lynch mob ‘best’.

AM I STILL YOUR MOST HATED and feared blog CONSERVATIVE peeping tom? I trust nothing I’ve quite reasonably said about your should have been instantly aborted ultra dumbarse has changed that magical inconsequential bollocks?

harold’s psychotic hypocritical anal hatred of cars is really just a demented obsessive pose folks. harold actually is a part owner of a proud and very noisy happy clappy evangelical christian second hand car dealership which preys on impoverished blacks with lousy credit in Powder Springs. harold now sullenly drives a rainbow coloured two seater electric golf cart to work on the Silver Comet Trail ever since his driving licence was wisely confiscated by Cobb Police after that unfortunate recent attempt at blocking Dick Cheney’s motorcade dragging a stolen Chick-Fila cow (see crackpipe does have a modeling job) behind his rusty old fa ggot pink Yugo.

By RCH

July 24, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

Deegee and others When driving on 285 or the downtown connector, look at the license plates of the cars around you. Much of that traffic is through traffic, That is what the Northern Arc is supposed to eliminate.

By Dustbuster

July 24, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

Oh good, Dusty. Let’s keep the conversation going on something you already admitted you don’t know anything about. Well, that wouldn’t be out of the ordinary for you.

By JNH

July 24, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

By Jeff July 24, 2007 9:35 AM McDade was doing is JOB as a government employee of the STATE OF GEORGIA. The STATE OF GEORGIA has Open Records

I can understand why this tape (or whatever) should be submitted for viewing by specific individuals (the jury for instance). However, providing this tape to anyone who asks? I don’t know. I’m not an attorney. I do know some information is not to be made available to the public unless certain circumstances are met. Those records that invade personal privacy, such as applications and medical records for example. Should I, Jane Doe, who was not a jury member be able to obtain the Wilson tape? I certainly hope not, but as I said I’m not an attorney.

By deegee

July 24, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this

RCH, try for a minute to imagine Atlanta at a time before 285 and the downtown connector. Now think big and try to imagine an alternative to cars and roads. Have you ever been to Houston? They have an inner perimeter and an outer perimeter and it still takes you an hour to go 15 miles during rush hour.

By Dusty

July 24, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

Dustbuster who is afraid to use his real ID,

I know just as much about roads and the Northern Arc as most bloggers here. They usually are frustrated folks who get stuck in traffic. I doubt that any are traffic engineers. I am

By RCH

July 24, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Deggee Better than an hour and a half to go the same 15 miles.

By Build It Now

July 24, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Start construction on this TODAY.

Shut down the MARTA waste-of-money boondoggle and spend the funds on pavement so that we can free up the congestion. Pave over the MARTA tracks and open new lanes to cars.

By catlady

July 24, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

The Northern Arc should be built so the people of the Metro Area have options.

WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF US! WE DON’T NEED TO BE THE SOLUTION TO YOUR PROBLEMS! The people of Metro Atlanta do have options, but they don’t need to make our area the solution to their perceived problems.

Dusty, I live where I do and work 12 miles from my home (much,much further out than the town I described). I choose to live here. With a PhD, I could live near Atlanta and make a great deal more money, but there is that old quality of life issue again. For many of the things you listed, I can go “out” if I need to. Luckily, I don’t “need” to go to concerts, hospitals, museums very often. I have natural beauty, the birds singing, fairly clean air and water, home-grown, organic food. My occasional forays into the city are enough.

Like many of our good conservative friends who blog here, I don’t see that other’s problems should cause me extra trouble (see Peachcare, etc.) If you don’t like the traffic, move where there is less, BUT DEDICATE YOURSELF TO LIVING A SIMPLER LIFESTYLE THAT DOES NOT BRING THE PROBLEM WITH YOU. Don’t expect to balance your transportation needs on my (quiet, peaceful, country) back.

By Bury Bush hating liberals and harold the nutter in the Northern Arc concrete

July 24, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

This depraved child molesting hippety hop rapist Wilson - with that pathetically stuuuuuuuuuuupid ebonics sounding first name FULLY DESERVES AND NEEDS TO STAY IN JAIL FOR THE FULL 10 YEARS!!!

We do NOT need any more vicious black hippety hop gangbanging sexual predators out on the streets!!

STFU crackpipe - your obsessive, increasingly deranged drivel on this worthless, utterly unimportant case is swiftly getting as crazed as the insane car hating evangelical christian harold’s bollocks about cars and roads and 100 mile bicycle rides to work.

By deegee

July 24, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

Asking RCH if he sees the glass half full or half empty, he responds, “what glass?”

By FYI

July 24, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

In Georgia, the heaviest tax burden falls on families in the lowest 20 percent income group. They pay about twelve percent of family income on state and local taxes (state income tax plus state sales tax plus local sales tax). On the other hand, Georgia families in the top 1 percent income group pay less than 8 percent in state and local taxes.

regressive tax - a tax that takes a larger percentage of income of low income people than of high income people.

The Georgia income/sales tax structure is both regressive and immoral. Tolls will only exacerbate the problem.

By Dusty

July 24, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

Sorry but my post was cut off. I am not a traffic engineer and don’t try to act like one.

But…, I prefer discussing roads ( the subject de jour) more than over publicized politicized legal cases.

By DebbieDoRight

July 24, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

By JNH Thanks for bringing this up Debbie. I attempted to initiate some discussion regarding this issue 7/16/05 (12:25PM) on the Luckovich blog. I checked the blog later in the day; evidentally other issues were more prevalent. I assumed it would surface again. At any rate, where is the outrage?

I’ll bet you $50 that the honorable State Attorney and a few of those The LAW is the LAW folks will turn a blind eye to this. It’s OKAY if you’re some broke kid who doesn’t know the law and broke it; you get the MAXIMUM penalty for that. But if you’re a DA who knowingly broke the law, well, he’ll probably get a banquet and a road named in his honor. That’s the southern way.

From Jeff I would argue that the right to an Open Government is one right of the people which is not enumerated in the Constitution, and therefore the National government has no right to “deny or disparage” said right of the people.

You’re making this comment too easy, it’s off the subject but…….

Since you believe in “open government” I know you will support the congress’ efforts to get Cheney, et al. to testify before them concerning the Gonzalez AG firings……….

OK Back on subject: Since this incident came up, I have been researching Supreme court cases, (SC remember is a FEDERAL entity), where state law has prevailed over Federal law — so far I haven’t found any. Good luck though on your hypothesis.

Dusty: You of all people know i just LOVE a spicy argument!!!

By WTF

July 24, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

Why are so many people here down on the idea of commuter rail? It seems to work great all over the nation. Why would Georgia be any different? If you’re not familiar with commuter rail, visit a city with it..say Washington, DC where people take the MARC train and the VRE into the city from the Maryland and Virginia suburbs every day. It is a tremendous success. Why must Georgian’s always be so pessimistic and say that nothing will work here when it’s proven to work elsewhere?

By jbmlaw

July 24, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

Good morning all. Northern Arc would benefit me personally; it would be nice of the taxpayers to buy that just for me. I don’t believe a Norther Arc would have any real effect on I-285 gridlock, however. I don’t think there is that much traffic going from north I-85 to north I-75, nor from north I-75 to north I-85. I’ll stay with the jbmlaw solution, since it is so much cheaper: move all state government offices to Macon, and push as much Federal down to Clayton County, near the airport. Gridlock cured.

By DebbieDoRight

July 24, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

Wilson was guilty. The distractions you mention don’t change that. Neither do protests.

McDade is guilty. The distractions don’t change that. Neither do his protests.

By CJ

July 24, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

Whoever designed the interstate system to converge I-75, I-85, and I-20 in the middle of downtown Atlanta was a freakin idiot!!! I lay blame on that person or team of people for all of the traffic problems we have today. I live in Downtown and work at the Perimeter. Every license plate I see says Clayton or Coweta. Those people are not using I-285 to go around town, as it was originally intended. They are coming through town and clogging up my commute.

Close the downtown connector and reroute everything around Atlanta rather than through it :-)

By Jeff

July 24, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

jbm:

Hey, that could work! We’ve already got the infrastructure down here to handle it! (And MANY of our roads are ALREADY 4 lane. Specifically there is at LEAST one 4 lane - OTHER than I-75 - which stretches from Macon to Warner Robins and beyond and even connects Mid GA Airport to Robins AFB.

Speaking of the airports: You could move all the Fed offices here as well. We already have a two-airport setup, and since one was built to handle intercontinental super-heavy cargo and medium-bombers (C-5 Galaxys and B-1B Lancer bombers), it could well handle anything thrown at it.

Debbie:

Those prosecutors served at the will of the President. The President, as the CEO of their employer, has the right to fire them at will for whatever reason. The only controversy is that which the Democrats are trying to stir up for political gain. Should Cheney and Gonzales show up? Yes. But the only words out of their mouths should be that which I just typed, and then they should stand up and go back to their offices. That is all I have to say about that issue.

By Bury Bush hating liberals and harold the nutter in the Northern Arc concrete

July 24, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

jbm - if you moved all those smug officious jobsworth barrack room lawyer officers and their offices down to crime ridden dumps Macon and Clayton the yoof perpetrated crime rate on govt workers would MASSIVELY increase - the muggings, theft from cars, robberies, sex crimes etc would be a major crime problem … but as its only boorish, incompetent uncivil imperial fed govt lackeys it might not be such a bad idea after all. I’ll cheerily volunteer to move the fascistic goose stepping INS officers down there myself … snigger

By DebbieDoRight

July 24, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

Those records that invade personal privacy, such as applications and medical records for example. Should I, Jane Doe, who was not a jury member be able to obtain the Wilson tape?

JNH: BINGO!! If I was one of the two “victims” that McDade said he was “protecting from sexual predators”, I’d sue his a$$ for distributing my picture all over the country. Then I’d sue Douglas County for allowing the vindictive harridan to do it in the first place. Then I sue the STATE for allowing an underaged “rape” victims images to be seen by anyone outside of the courtroom.

A little financial pain will teach them all a BIG lesson.

By DD

July 24, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

Hey Wooten, maybe you can your buddies at ER Snell and their illegal workforce to pave more of the Georgia countryside for you.

By arcisridiculous

July 24, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

If we pave the whole state we could get from anywhere to anywhere else without actually having to find an interstate. Yours is a brilliant idea, Jim. I would hate for a town in north georgia to have to be further than 1 mile from an interstate. Why not build a route from Gwinnett right over to Knoxville?

Building an interstate will just encourage more traffic in north georgia. people might want to try living closer to where they work for a change.

Speaking for everyone in Jasper, I don’t think we would like an interstate running through our yards just so people from Dalton can cut through to Myrtle Beach faster. Or people from Duluth can get to Calhoun without having to go out of their way. Some places just aren’t a straight line away. I don’t have a problem with gwinnett to Ringold not being the nicest commute. We have plenty of roads.

By Dusty

July 24, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

Now Debbie,11:04

Are you sure that DA knowingly broke the law? You wouldn’t make a judgement before it was proven, would you? And…since when did NOT knowing the law make someone innocent? I will try that line on the next traffic ticket I should be so unfortunate to receive.

Ah well, now I better start talking “roads”. How was your ride to work this morning? (I know. You are working at home on your laptop or something. Or loafing at home.) C’est la vie as you worry about the poor “unfortunates”.

By harold

July 24, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

fact is hardly nobody makes this “northern arc” commute now. its one of the commutes that is too insane, so people dont do it.

pave a fat road through there and you’ve just allowed a bunch of people to live in crackworth or Rome to work in Suwanee. Oh joy. Yay.

Nobody does that now, but then people would and that northern arc would be just another clogged up road that helps nothing at all

By DebbieDoRight

July 24, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

Debbie: Those prosecutors served at the will of the President. The President, as the CEO of their employer, has the right to fire them at will for whatever reason.

However, the PRESIDENT didn’t, the AG did.

Should Cheney and Gonzales show up? Yes. But the only words out of their mouths should be that which I just typed, and then they should stand up and go back to their offices

How very Nixonian of you. HOwever, that approach didn’t work for Nixon, didn’t work for Clinton and WON’T work for Dumbya, Cheney, et al. When they leave office and become private citizens, what “protection” will they have then?

By Adam

July 24, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

What brilliant thinking: Don’t build more roads because it will only attract more cars.

How come this line of thinking doesn’t apply to homeless shelters??

By arcisridiculous

July 24, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

harold hit the nail on the head.

By Jeff

July 24, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

Debbie:

The AG is also in their chain of command, and also has the right to fire, since he is the head of the agency in question.

Again, the only controversy is that which the Democrats are trying to create for their own political gain, and RATIONAL people see it as exactly that and dismiss it.

By harold

July 24, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

“What brilliant thinking: Don’t build more roads because it will only attract more cars.”

Yes, of course. What do you think will happen if you build a road? It will attract magic fairies that will teleport people around town?

“How come this line of thinking doesn’t apply to homeless shelters??”

It does! That’s why people are all NIMBY about homeless shelters

By deejay

July 24, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

*By Rod July 24, 2007 8:28 AM

BTW, Harold, your posts are usually fairly interesting - but please don’t make them that long. No one bothers to read a post that long…*

Please, only speak for yourself.

By deegee

July 24, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

Adam, have you considered the fact that every time you build a bridge on a highway that you have effectively created a homeless shelter?

By DebbieDoRight

July 24, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

Jeff, I’m not so sure about that. I’ll have to research that one. From my understanding of the office of the AG it is the PEOPLE of the US he’s supposed to protect — not the president. The president can be reprsentated by a private lawyer. I’ll have to look up the rest however.

By Bob

July 24, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

The first Arch should have been built a long time ago. This one is needed yesterday, but NOT as a toll road.

As a resident of northwest Georgia with relativees in South Carolina and a wife who travels all the way to downtown Atlanta and back up I-85 (I-285 is so crowded it is quicker to avoid it)while working on her doctorate in Athens, I see a definate need.

Also trucks from the carpet and other industries would use the outer roads to go east… saving time and lives.

Even if mass transit was used, it wouldn’t help people not headed to downtown Atlanta.

By Neal Johnson

July 24, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

There is already a Northern Arc under construction http://www.dot.state.ga.us/dot/plan-prog/planning/studies/completedstudies/appalachia/index.shtml

Now shut up about this and make SR20 an expressway!

By Chuck

July 24, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

Jim Wooten skated over the important issue in today’s column. Whether to construct a Northern Arc is insignificant relative to the bigger issue — “private-sector involvement”.

By accepting as inevitable that roads and highways will be owned or operated by private companies with zero interest in the public good, we’re literally laying the groundwork for our own demise.

By harold

July 24, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

well BOB how often do you visit your relatives during the week when there’s traffic? try visiting them on the weekend. you wife is working on her doctorate in Athens? then she should be smart enough to get an apartment there! you are not providing any sort of evidence that proves a need for the northern arc. what you are providing evidence for is stupidity, sorry.

rod, harold admits his post was lengthy. that is why he offered up some capital letters

By Filster

July 24, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

I’m sure I’ll be accused of NIMBY (not NAMBLA), but I don’t think the Northern Arc is still a good idea. The last one appeared to be routed to ensure that the most land owned by the tehn-Democratic leadership was included in the route, and passed by, near, and in some cases through extremely high end neighborhoods in Forsyth County.If we are serious about alleviating traffic congestion, I would suggest start closer to the SC border on 85 and then come across laterally. Make it connect north of, say, Acworth, on 75. If the Arc is truly intended to alleviate having to go all the way south to 285 to get to 75N so drivers can head up to TN, then build it so they don’t have to come down here at all. Give drivers a direct route AND alleviate some significant congestion. But nah, that makes too much snese for our elected representatives. Besides, I’m sure everyone in the houses has a relative who owns land up there and we all know that around these parts it’s not what you know but who. I’ll be looking to see where it’s projected to come through. Last time it would have been 2 miles from my house and eaten part of the Polo Fields in Cumming. Take it through uninhabited areas gents. Please.

By Time 4 Sidewalks

July 24, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this

We need sidewalks in more subdivisions located in S. DeKalb County.

**Why are builders selling homes for $200K plus with no sidewalks? It’s not right to pay tha much to live in a community with no sidewlks.

If Henry Co. can get sidewalks in communities $200K plus, then why can’t DeKalb Co.?

By ts

July 24, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

Jim…..RIGHT ON!!!! Just think if we bit the bullet and built the outer perimeter in the late 80’s when it was first proposed. All of that land was rural and very few homes would have had to be disturbed. Now we have waited so long that the land is much more expensive. I think we need to quickly get real and start planning all road projects 20 yrs in advance. Bottom line is that Atlanta is going to continue to grow and we need to constantly improve our transportation infrastructure to support this growth. Otherwise we are just putting our heads in the sand and ignoring the problem.

By Time 4 Sidewalks

July 24, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

We need sidewalks in more subdivisions located in S. DeKalb County.

**Why are builders selling homes for $200K plus with no sidewalks? It’s not right to pay tha much to live in a community with no sidewlks.

If Henry Co. can get sidewalks in communities $200K plus, then why can’t DeKalb Co.?

By Time 4 Sidewalks

July 24, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

We need sidewalks in more subdivisions located in S. DeKalb County.

Why are builders selling homes for $200K plus with no sidewalks? It’s not right to pay tha much to live in a community with no sidewalks.

If Henry Co. can get sidewalks in communities $200K plus, then why can’t DeKalb Co.?

By harold

July 24, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this

WE NEED THE NORTHERN ARC SO LINDSEY LOHAN WILL COME!

BUILD IT AND SHE WILL COME!

COME LINDSEY LOHAN COME!

By time for the truth

July 24, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

By Pope rednecks - Amerikkka’s Al Qaeda I

July 23, 2007 5:47 PM

Vermont is an interesting place, very tolerant . But ugly monsters like Dusty and tft-tranny better wear their burkas when they go up there - there are no gun laws in Vermont, and someone might shoot their ugly fatt arses thinking they’re a moose.

now we know where Mrs Oedipus-NAMBLA nee rednekkks the VT based deranged hater of all things in Dixie has been of late:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290550,00.html

By Ed

July 24, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

YES, we vote YES!!!! It takes our friends who live in East Dawson County 45 to 50 minutes to get to our home in West Dawson County. One good road, it is not much to ask for(on bended knees, here).

By RCH

July 24, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

Deegee I live in the real world. Do you believe no new roads are the best solution? Try driving 2 hours to make that 15 mile trip.

By HAROLD

July 24, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

ED YOU LIAR.. DAWSON COUNTY CAN BE BICYCLED ACROSS IN LESS THAN 45 MINUTES

By time for the truth

July 24, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

murderous thuggish hippety hop gun violence is a modern day plague:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23405562-details/Boxing+champion+shot+in+the+head+for+saying+’don’t+smoke’/article.do

By Dan

July 24, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

Amen! Build the damn Arc already!

On average, one person DIES on dangerously overcrowded Highway 20 in Cherokee & Forsyth counties every month. Look it up.

These DEATHS could have been avoided with a limited-access highway like the Arc. Georgia used to have proactive leaders. Now all we have are do-nothing, fair weather, no guts losers.

By time for the truth

July 24, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

DAWSON COUNTY CAN BE BICYCLED ACROSS IN LESS THAN 45 MINUTES

but only if your bicycle is safely “ridden” in the back of a full size pick up truck - like my Jap Tundra.

By harold

July 24, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

“no new roads” is the best solution

it is the perpetual promise of traffic congestion relief that leads idiots to move to the “other” side of some traffic

they figure they can buy low, wait for traffic relief, then sell high and then repeat out even further

this MUST be ended

traffic relief should come individually when people live near work or decide to take the train or bicycle to work

if you build it they will come, so why bother building it. i-75 was expanded to meet the needs of atlanta forever back in the 1980s and look where that got us.. it got bartow and cherokee and rome added to the suburbs. idiotic!

we can keep expanding further and further and further and then we are gonna have a bunch of empty a* roads once the gasoline keeps getting more and more expensiver and people decide maybe the blacks arent that scary after all

By harold

July 24, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

Dan you fool, traffic deaths are not eliminated by adding complexity to traffic! traffic deaths are eliminated when people decide to take the train instead. you think people don’t die on I-75 and I-575 every month? try people die every few days!! and yes there are walls and barriers!!!! the “safer” you make the road seem, the worse the crashes get.

By harold

July 24, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

DAWSON COUNTY LOOKS LIKE A SCOTTY DOG.. SO WHO CARES WHAT THEY THINK!!

By kc

July 24, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

Build the *&^%$# thing already. My house has been in the proposed right of way for over 20 years and I am tired of hearing it is being built, it is on hold, it has been revived again. It is needed to help with the congestion on Hwy. 20. It will be years before Hwy. 20 is four laned all the way to Canton or beyond. Besides who wants to ride a rail and lose their independence to come and go if they get ill or a family member is in need of you during your work hours.

By Curious Observer

July 24, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

So TFTT, freshly expelled this time from his hero Bush’s colon, is back to ranting about his favorite subject, black crime. It’s unfortunate his mind lacks the flexibility to handle more than one subject.

And Dusty, having recovered from her long weekend bender,has taken her usual station as sentry for all things Bush.

It’s great to know there’s so much constancy in this world.

By Craig also

July 24, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

This stuff is worth reading just for Harold’s comments - thanks pal, your first post was brilliant.

By Analchord

July 24, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

Fox just released Vick’s latest comment: “I fought with the dogs I had, not the dogs I wanted.”

By Dusty

July 24, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this

Curious Observer,1:02

You are correct. There’s so much constancy in the world. You show it perfectly by exposing the usual prejudice against anything supportive of this country. What is your problem? Just your usual case of the “uglies”?

I do love this country. I do support the president. I do support the troops in a manner that they can tell it is support. I guess all of that is what disagrees with you so consistently.

As far as I am concerned, you are a sad case, just like your twin, Pope Rednecks. But enjoy your free speech. Grovel in it and make your country look bad. It is your decision to belittle everything American, not mine.

By time for the truth - still very slightly proud to be peeping tom's most feared and hated conservativ

July 24, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

So the execrable peeping tom like the pandering bigoted leftist hatepig it always will be still SHAMELESSLY (seemingly) DENIES the ever increasing plague of mindless murderous black hippety hop gangsta inspired crime!!

harold its the infestation of poorly educated illegal mexican type leeches who mostly cannot drive and the interloping uninvited unwanted nasal whining aggressive self absorbed yanKKKees that have made the traffic unbearable and more dangerous.

if hateful snivelling yanKKKees and plebian illegals were simply banned from roads in Dixie things would be MUCH SAFER and far more pleasant for everyone!! there’d also be far fewer pathetic fading kerry edwards loser bumper stickers to laugh at!!

By harold

July 24, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

who wants to ride a rail and lose their independence to come and go if they get ill or a family member is in need of you during your work hours?

new yorkers chicagoans tokyoers parisians germans londoners

the list goes on.. somehow the world did not collapse in places where people dont use their cars for going to work

if your kid gets stick, you take the train home, pick up the car and go get the kid. so what. your kid is not gonna die if mommie take 20 or 30 minutes longer getting there because she rode home on the non-peak schedule

By Analchord

July 24, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this

Fox just reported Vick has been charged another indictment: Count One: “Feeding his dogs Scooby Snacks made in China”.

Vick declined comment.

By Analchord

July 24, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

Vick: “I fought with the dogs I had, not the ones I wanted!”

By Ben

July 24, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Thankfully people like you don’t get to make the decision about a Northern Arc. Because it was simply a developmental project to benefit several well known Gwinnett developers and would in no way relieve traffic in the metro area and would only serve to open up more North Georgia counties to housing development and additional congestion. To relieve any traffic we need a true Atlanta by-pass for truckers and pass through traffic like the Florida turnpike. But, Atlanta and metro area businesses have fought this idea for many years since it diverts drivers away from the city.

By harold

July 24, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

IN FACT, CARS KILLED MORE AMERICANS IN SEPTEMBER 2001 THAN WERE KILLED BY TERRORISTS

HOW BOUT THEM APPLES

TOO MANY AMERICANS! SOCIAL SECURITY GOING BROKE!

MORE CARS PLEASE!!!!!!

By RCH

July 24, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

Article in the AJC

“Yet, Fluker said, an equal part of the conversation will include the conflation of race and celebrity. That Vick is in such a flagship role with the Falcons warrants the greater scrutiny directed at him, she said. But she wonders if his problems make big headlines because he’s paid $130 million or because he is black.

“It’s probably both,” Fluker said.”

Tiger Woods is black and wealthy, Oprah is black and wealthy, and so are many other black and wealthy athletes and entertainers are loved and respected. Maybe individuals are finally being judged by their content of character (MLK). In that regards, if the allegations against M.V. hold up he is nothing but a “thug”

By Jackie

July 24, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

Build the ARC to accomplish what? Would it cost less to make MARTA more comprehensive and serve all the metro counties, relieving the worst traffic congestion in the entire USA? Regardless of your politics, we all should recognize that the city of Atlanta is the economic engine of the region, therefore, the health of the engine determines if the train continues to pull the other cars!

By Analchord

July 24, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

Can you bring dogs on the Marta train?

By harold

July 24, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

HAROLD FOR GOVERNOR!

CAMPAIGN MOTTO:

EVEN HAROLD WOULD BE AN IMPROVEMENT

By Jeff

July 24, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

Jackie:

The City of Atlanta is becoming (like the county resides mostly in) increasingly irrelevant.

Companies are NOT moving INTO Atlanta. They are moving OUT of Atlanta and into the Atlanta SUBURBS.

By GodHatesTrash

July 24, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

It’s kinda funny reading all this Vick-bashing crap when all he did was kill a few dogs while your kkkracker grandpappies thought killing human beings was Saturday night sport.

Abu Ghraib - your President at work, too, you filthy stupid redneck PsOS.

Trash.

By jm

July 24, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

I am curious as to where Mr. Wooten stood on the northern arc during the election between Roy Barnes and Sonny Perdue. I am just hazarding a guess here but I bet he was against it then.

By Jackie

July 24, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

@Jeff

You make my point. Companies move to the metro area because of Atlanta not Marietta, Cumming, Decatur, Douglasville, etc. So, if the engine itself is well maintained, then the rest of the system being moved by that engine prospers. I would argue that it is part of the multiplier effect.

By lynch the trash

July 24, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

It’s kinda funny reading all this Vick-bashing crap when all he did was kill a few dogs

while your kkkracker grandpappies thought killing human beings was Saturday night sport.

obvious question - how come they missed YOU rednekkks? … silly me - you did say human beings!!

Abu Ghraib - your President at work, too, you filthy stupid redneck PsOS.

Looks like Mrs Oedipus-NAMBLA is having yet more wh oremonal problems, thus the unhinged, anti-Southern bilious hate is back with a vengeance. Thank Christ VT has to deal with this toxic nutter now!!

POOR WITTLE DIDDUMS - did the frightened choirboys finally say just say NO this weekend?

By Tancred

July 24, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

Many American cities will eventually have to do what they do in Sao Paulo, Brasil. There, by enforced law, you can only drive your car on certain days; it’s like a watering ban, except for cars. Large companies have shuttle busses that take you to work on the days you can’t drive. That is not to say that Sao Paulo, a city of around 30 MILLION, doesn’t also have a good transit system, but “Paulistas” love their cars like we do too. All one has to do is count all the infill projects ITP and consider how many more cars are gonna spill out onto our streets to realize that regulating their use will be the ONLY sollution. There will never be enough roads to accomodate all the cars. That’s just the way it is.

By getalife

July 24, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

Specter vs pos ganzo:

S: How can you get approval from sedated Ashcroft?

G: Can I continue?

S: No, answer my question.

G: Obviously there was concern about Ashcroft’s condition. There are no rules governing when Ashcroft decides he is well enough.

S: He had given us AG duties.

G: We knew he was ill…

S: Not making progress. Moving on. Do you think constitution govt can survive if Pres has unilateral authority to reject congress inquiries for Exec Privilege and prevent prosecution of claim?

G: Ongoing matter, I am recused, I cannot answer.

S: I am asking about constitutional law.

G: You are talking about an on-going issue.

S: No. Answer.

G: I won’t answer - it is ongoing controversy and I am recused.

Leahy: Calls for decorum (room is protesting).

S: Won’t pursue. This is hopeless. You are not just AG, you are a lawyer. This is a fundamental issues separate from USA resignations. Other subject. Do you have a conflict regarding the firing of US AGs?

G: Yes.

S: Do you have a conflict of interest about Miers?

G: Yes. I won’t answer.

S: Let’s find one you will answer. How about death penalty case? Charlton contacted your office and said case was not appropriate for dp. Testimony that AG spent 5-10 minutes on the issue…is this accurate?

G: I have no specific recollection of this case. But we have a detailed process for capital case review.

S: I am not interested in that. I want an answer to my question. You don’t remember a case regarding a man’s execution?

G: I have no recollection of the conversation.

S: Do you disagree with the testimony?

G: I can’t agree or disagree.

Geez, this is the gop party working after the 06 election.

Why in the world would you vote gop to get this type of government?

By Jeff

July 24, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

Jackie:

If they wanted to move to ATLANTA, they would move to ATLANTA.

Point blank: They are not. ATLANTA is not the engine, only the caboose. The SUBURBS (particularly the northern ones) are the true engine.

By DJ

July 24, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

Yes, Yes! Pave, Pave, Pave!!!! absolutely!!! the ONLY solution to our traffic/gridlock problems are MORE ROADS, preferrably built by construction companies with TIES TO REPUBLICANS!!! Yes, yes, yes!! Pave more!!! Pave More!!! PAVE MORE!!! We’re Republicans - We only know one way of doing things and we will keep beating it to death until we can shove it down everyone’s throats because we know better then everyone else!! Yes, yes, Pave, Pave!!! Yeay!!!

By DJ

July 24, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

and where is JBMLAW? shouldn’t he be here sucking on Jim’s “northern arc”??

By catlady

July 24, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

I live within 10 miles of the northern arc Neal Johnson referenced. It is a disaster for the people living in the counties that have been co-opted into it. We have occasional 3 lane sectors, for passing, and now we have horrific traffic from the chicken processing and logging industries competing with the carpet mill trucks. In addition, the mountains have been discovered by slow moving (slow thinking) tourist types from Atlanta and Florida. We have several people a year KILLED on this road in our county alone. Only the people of Lumpkin County (Dahlonega) spoke up when this was being stuck down our throats as a reward to the carpet industry. Between it and 515 bringing in more crime, Atlanta refugees, and drugs, please don’t do us any more favors! It is a kind of “economic development” we don’t need!

By RCH

July 24, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

Catlady Alpharettaiets will be glad to send you all the Section 8 housing we can. Can we send MARTA up your way too?

By jbmlaw

July 24, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

Dear DJ @ 3:06, sorry you slept so late, you missed my post, exactly four hours before yours (mine was lucid compared to yours, too!)

By ga farmer

July 24, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

Export the economic development and government agencies south. We have available infrastructure including roads and we have WATER for drinking that did not go down someones toilet last week. The ability to move freely and quickly ( as in a car or truck ) people or freight is as much a transmission as any metro area is an engine of commerce. The only thing trains can move economically is long distance freight. Do a little research on Amtrac. People moving in any form takes government subsidy.

Don’t call Harold a redneck. You desecrate the reputation of the hard working folks who do have red necks from toiling in the hot Georgia sun. Some of us consider the name a badge of honor.

By BS Aplenty (Just Takin' Out the "Trash")

July 24, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Re: We can only hope GodHatesTrash like you..

What type of AIDS-infected, herpes-ridden, steamin’ POS squirted your sick arse into bein’? Hell, even my relgious relatives would have aborted you.

If I had a redneck granpappy, I’d kick him square & proper for missin’ your mammy. But then sometimes when you see a steamin’ POS on the ground you just mistake it for a steamin’ POS.

Just can’t get good klan help anymore…

By Ed Reikowsky

July 24, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

I agree the “Northern Arc” should have been built 10 years ago. I disagree with building it as a public/private partnership TOLL ROAD. Once a road is built as a toll road the tolls never go away. Georgia DOT step up and do for your citizens what you should have done a long time ago, build the road not line the pockets of your contractor buddies.

By Jackie

July 24, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

@Jeff

If the ‘burbs are the engine, why is there a traffic problem inbound mornings and outbound evenings?

By Jackie

July 24, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

If Alberto Gonzalez were to leave office, Dubya and Cheney would both go to jail. The new AG would have no choice but to bring criminal charges or resign to keep from being the person that brought this criminal enterprise to justice.

By Alan

July 24, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

Republican presidential candidates promised to appoint judges who applied existing law, not activists who imposed their own views of what the law should be. There are now seven justices (out of nine) appointed by Republican presidents, and the current Supreme Court is among the most activist in history. The most activist decision, not only in the history of the Supreme Court but probably in the history of any court was, of course, Bush v. Gore in which five Republican justices imposed their own views of who should be president on the entire world. In the process, they distorted the law so badly that they had to announce that their decision would not have precedent value. What their decision did assure, however, was an activist Republican Supreme Court for generations.

In the past term alone, the activist majority overruled key provisions of congressionally mandated campaign-finance reform, dictated to cities how to assign students to public schools, reversed the decisions of federal agencies, overturned jury verdicts against large corporations and overruled its own precedents. So much for judicial restraint!

Adam Cohen, after reviewing the current Court’s record of activism, concluded that:

“The other disturbing aspect of the new conservative judicial activism is its dishonesty. The conservative justices claim to support ‘judicial modesty,’ but reviews of the court’s ruling over the last few years show that they have actually voted more often to overturn laws passed by Congress — the ultimate act of judicial activism — than has the liberal bloc.”

So let’s not here any more nonsense about judicial activism from the Right. The real culprit is reactionary judicial activism from the current Republican Court.

By catlady

July 24, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

RCH, no thanks. We have enough native and imported problem people of our own. Alpharettites can “enjoy” what they have achieved. What happens down there, STAYS down there, IMHO.

Seriously, let’s put the northern arc through Tennessee, North Carolina, and South Carolina. That way our legislators and DOT officials won’t be accused of financially benefitting, unless they own land out there.

By Ben

July 24, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

@Jackie

You are absolutely right. The burb folks believe that the city and 285 area is still in decay and are scared to even travel into the midtown / downtown areas. I even work with a guy who believes Atlanta is a “donut where all the wealth is outside the city.” Really? Is that why a 3BR 2BA house in Virginia Highlands still today sells for 600k and has buyers or why Brookhaven or Buckhead homes are 1-5 million? It is a confusion of square footage vs. value. A monster house on a tiny in a vast subdivision 40 miles from your place of work is not value - that is lifestyle. And, news flash, you are not “wealthier” because you have 4500 sq ft and a new BMW but spend 60+ minutes in the car ever day to work.

They don’t understand that there is a large percentage of folks doing reverse commutes because living inside the perimeter is desirable. The reason why? The majority of jobs are still inside 285 irregardless of what people in the burbs try to tell themselves as they spend 60+ min in their vehicles driving into the 285 area.

By Libertarian

July 24, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Hello,

Those on the right (at least the traditional fiscal conservatives) don’t have any issues with the government building roads.

I see that as one of the things government SHOULD do. Let’s get the government to stop doing things it shouldn’t do, and build the Arc already. For that matter, (as someone from the northeast) they did not stop building and expanding roads when they build commuter rail. It is obvious that we will need to do both.

But the two extremes in modern politics are too busy hating one another to get anything useful done.

By BS Aplenty

July 24, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

Re: Alan

When you post that “canned” garbage from the liberal dunktank do you have to hold your nose, too?

By deegee

July 24, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

The political and financial leaders of the US determined years ago that roads and cars would be our future based on the assumption that gasoline, concrete and real estate would always be cheap and plentiful. They were short-sighted. We need visionary leaders that can see beyond the next election cycle. We need mass transit and a viable freight transportation plan in order for us to stop financing Islamic terrorism at the same time we are fighting it.

By GodHatesTrash

July 24, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

BS Aplenty is a great name for a stumpbroke redneck POS.

Sorry, you goatraper, I don’t have any donkey or monkey or pig blood, so there’s no way I’d be related to the filthy animals in your family tree.

The only sex your grandpappy ever had with a woman was when he buttraped your grandma thinking she was your uncle. Nine months later she took a dump - and there was your daddy! You and tft-tranny are twin brothers by different monkeys.

Trash.

By Democrats Got It Done

July 24, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this

The minimum wage rises 70 cents to $5.85 an hour today, the first increase in a decade. It ends the longest period without an increase since the federal minimum wage was enacted in 1938.

Legislation signed in May increases the wage 70 cents each summer until 2009, when it will reach $7.25 an hour.

Government figures show about 1.7 million people earned $5.15 or less per hour in 2006.

A person working 40 hours a week at the current minimum wage of $5.15 makes about $10,700 a year. A raise to $5.85 an hour would increase that to $12,168 a year before taxes. An increase to $7.25 would raise that to just over $15,000 a year.

Halleluhia!!!

By Typical Georgia Redneck

July 24, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this

GHT - that’s hilarious!

By Time for the Toilet

July 24, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this

I was born in the loo, too, BS.

Are you my brother?

By GodHatesTrash

July 24, 2007 6:08 PM | Link to this

If BS had a d*ck, she’d be your brother, tft-tranny.

She’s as dckless as you are, you silly Pom btch.

By death to VT based yanKKKee child molestors

July 24, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this

“goat raper” … Wow … Mrs Oedipus-NAMBLA sure is washing the knuckle dragging kins’ dirty laundry in public this afternoon. One assumes the poor transexual billy goat after rednekkks used up its triple hit of zoological Cialis was given a rape kit at Grady and a morning after Leper Prince pill.

this kind ofsick twisted yanKKKee leftist trash does need to be put down - like an infestation of Arkansas vermin that the White House endured for 8 long corrupt rapist pardon selling years.

Lets just bury rednekkks alive - as if one could actually tell that - somewhere on the Northern Arc - preferrably in a giant sepctic tank from an eminent domain house - so the smell wont be quite so noticeable!!

By Harold

July 25, 2007 8:11 AM | Link to this

2nd worst commute in the USA.

Oh let’s build more roads then.

Nobody would ever ride public transit. We are too good for that.

By Katharine

July 25, 2007 8:40 AM | Link to this

I’ll tell you where the DOT wants the “Northern Arc.” Along the hotly contested I-3 route, the Feds’ grand scheme to run an interstate from the port at Savannah to Knoxville and Oak Ridge Tennessee. Anyone who knows Oak Ridge’s history may have an idea what they’re up to. This has absolutely nothing to do with highway congestion in Atlanta.

By Katharine

July 25, 2007 8:55 AM | Link to this

By jbmlaw

July 24, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

I’ll stay with the jbmlaw solution, since it is so much cheaper: move all state government offices to Macon, and push as much Federal down to Clayton County, near the airport. Gridlock cured.

jmblaw: I have a better idea. Let’s move state government to Hutchinson Island, in Savannah, which was built from the dredged Savannah River and probably tritium leaked from nuclear Plant Vogtle in Augusta. Then we can dig the underpinnings out from the island and float it to the Caribbean, where the taxpayer money is going.

By gtfan

July 25, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

I’d only support the ARC, IF it had no exits besides the ones at each major interstate.

Otherwise, it just creates more sprawl.

By ELW

July 25, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

Wooten, although I have NEVER voted for a Democrat for antyhing with the exception of Poythress thirteen years ago, I cannot disagree with you more. This view is NOT a conservative one. It is an idiotic one on your part. The Northern Arc is not wanted or needed by the people in that area. Like 400, it will only bring more traffic and development and cause further urban sprawl and lower quality of life. It is also a huge waste of money, whether public or private. Fix the transportation problems closer in to the core city. Bye now.

By Me

July 25, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

A Northern Arc won’t decrease traffic. It will only bring more traffic as roads always do. The congestion will continue to shift northward and the developers will continue to line their pockets. Those of us whose families have lived here for close to 200 years will continue to have our lives disrupted for the comfort of newcomers. Guess people like me need to just leave Georgia and go somewhere else. DOT Chairman Mike Evans is a developer by the way.

By By

July 25, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

Anyone who opposes the Northern Arc certainly doesn’t drive on I-285 at the top end to know that there has to be another option for all those semi trucks who have to go all the way down 75 and across 285 to get to 85 N. The Northern Arc would help reduce the number of miles driven and number of hours of congestion, which is more environmental friendly than thousands of cars and trucks sitting on 285 idling for minutes on end waiting to get onto 85 or 75.

Imagine a 285 free of semis- think Northern Arc is good!

By By

July 25, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

Anyone who opposes the Northern Arc certainly doesn’t drive on I-285 at the top end to know that there has to be another option for all those semi trucks who have to go all the way down 75 and across 285 to get to 85 N. The Northern Arc would help reduce the number of miles driven and number of hours of congestion, which is more environmental friendly than thousands of cars and trucks sitting on 285 idling for minutes on end waiting to get onto 85 or 75.

Imagine a 285 free of semis- think Northern Arc is good!