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DEL.ICIO.USBeat me, kick me, vote for me.
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
The weekend’s tempest among Democratic Presidential candidates was prompted by post-debate remarks John Edwards uttered to Hillary Clinton. “We should try to have a more serious and a smaller group,” the former North Carolina senator said to her.
She agreed. “Our guys should talk,” Clinton replied. The private exchange as they walked off the stage at an NAACP forum in Detroit was picked up by an open microphone. All the Democratic contenders had participated.
The long-shot candidates reacted badly to the suggestion that they should be excluded. And I’m with them. The Republican field dropped by one with the announcement Saturday by former Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore that he is abandoning the race. “It has become apparent to me that the combination of my late start, and the front loaded nature of the primary schedule, have made it impractical to continue… I believe that it takes years of preparation to put in place both the political and financial infrastructure to contest what now amounts to a one-day national primary in February.” John McCain may not be far behind.
The point is that the field will shrink well before the first votes are cast. As for the extended debate season, candidates of both parties are providing a valuable service educating the nation on what core constituencies in each party stand for. Edwards certainly would like fewer competitors, upping his chances of gaining traction. But the first votes are still months away. No hurry.
A second question arises from the early rounds of this year-long campaign season. It’s whether candiates should appear before interest groups whose support they have zero chance of winning. Republican Mike Huckabee was the only GOP presidential candidate to accept an invitation to speak to the National Education Association.
That union, the parent of the Georgia Association of Educators, is held under lock-and-key by national Democrats. The same is true of the NAACP. All eight Democratic candidates spoke. Only U.S. Rep. Tom Tancredo of Colorado appeared, though the rest of the field had been invited.
My rule would be that if a candidate has a specific message to deliver to the organization’s membership, he or she should show up. Otherwise, no. Find another way to reach those voters. Republicans should never accept a single interest group’s leadership, membership or agenda as the filter through which to speak to teachers or other education employees or to blacks. The same applies to Democrats who are invited to appear before groups determined to elect Republicans.
Talk radio and the blogosphere demonstrated during the immigration debate that on critical issues public opinion can form and be conveyed quickly. Organized interest groups are of passing importance — and they often represent not grass-roots opinion, but the views of the few die-hards who control them.
My advice on these two matters: Don’t shrink the debates. And don’t waste time with interest groups that support the opposition and, furthermore, are yesterday’s news.
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By Mid-South Philosopher
July 16, 2007 9:08 AM | Link to this
Good morning, Jim,
On the issue of the debates, you and I agree. However, on the matter of the length of campaigning, I think we have arrived at the absurd. The ink wasn’t dry (so to speak) on the newspaper stories explaining the 2006 Congressional Elections before we were off and running for the 2008 Presidential and Congressional Elections. It is a never ending process from one election to the next.
I would like to see a moratorium on politicking from Election Day in November until, at least the following Labor Day. That would give us a little time to recover from the political methane.
It ain’t gonna happen though. There just are not enough Paris Hilton stories to fill up the 24/7 newscasts, and the Iraqi Saga’s ratings are falling. So it is * the Johnny and Hillary Do-si-do, *New York, New York starring Rudi, How I Lost 100 Pounds Without Jennie Craig staring Mike Huckabee, The Invisible Men starring alternately, Newt Gingrich and Fred Thompson, and numerous other sit-coms with a cast of (seemingly) thousands.
By Redneck Convert
July 16, 2007 9:10 AM | Link to this
Well, when I saw the title of the Wooten column this a.m. I said to myself, “Wooten has finally got around to writing about Billy Bob’s on a Saturday night.” But later I realized it was a diffrent kind of beating and kicking he was talking about.
I say just get rid of the debates. Let the Republicans pick a hardline conservative and the Democrats pick a commie librul and get on with the name calling and rumors. We all know who we are going to vote for. It don’t matter whether a stage gets packed with a bunch of suits with more ego than sense. I’m just like all the other good conservatives. The Democrats could run Christ hisself and I wouldn’t vote for him. He would probly want to hike my taxes and give my money to Those People.
Only trouble is, I don’t like none of the Republicans that are running. McCain is out on account of wanting to give amnesty to the Mexicans. Romney ain’t a Christian and belongs to a church where people take lots of wifes. None of the others can draw any votes. I guess I could vote for old Newt or this Fred Thompson, but they ain’t running yet.
Anyway, my mind is made up so these debates don’t mean nothing to me. They don’t mean nothing to people like Sister Dusty and jbmlaw and tftt neither. The canadates can talk till they are blue in the face and it won’t change nothing. So let them go around wasting money on talking to this group or that group. Us good GA people know what we like and we will vote for what is Right. Might as well get down to picking the canadates now and let them get a good running start.
By jbmlaw
July 16, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this
Good morning all. We address the two topics separately.
(1) Should the debates shrink the number of candidates? The real question is should television show the sound bites of 10 people in each party, or the sound bites of 3 in each party. The jbmlaw perspective is that it does not really matter. As no candidate shows up for these things without extensive preparation of the 15 words to emphasize on the significant issues, the gotcha value of the debates is nearly zero. Further, the differences among the candidates within each party are negligible; can anyone really argue there is a meaningful policy difference anywhere in Clinton-Obama-Edwards, or in Giuliani-Romney-McCain (the latter perhaps to be replaced by Thompson in the next couple of months)? The former group talks only to the moonbats, and to borrow language from our friend getalife, the latter only to wingnuts.
(2) Should any candidate venture outside the party’s sphere of influence? This may be one where I differ from the conventional wisdom. Certainly for second-tier candidates, such as Mr. Huckabee in the essay’s illustration today, there is no down-side risk; if your candidacy is going nowhere, why not? Normally primaries are the time to firm up one’s base – after all, that is the secret to the nomination. But if you are a democrat who wants to have a shot – no pun intended – with Southern voters, maybe going to the NRA convention is not such a bad idea. If you are a republican who wants to try to reach someone other than a white person, maybe you go to a visible black or Hispanic group. At worst you have a Sister Souljah moment that plays to your own constituency.
By jbmlaw
July 16, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this
Apologies to Tancredo fans, I omitted his name in my “illustrations” comment.
By jbmlaw
July 16, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this
I have to disagree in part with my friend Redneck @ 9:10, “The Democrats could run Christ hisself and I wouldn’t vote for him.” It would depend on what He said about killing babies and Supreme Court nominees.
By Dusty
July 16, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this
Dear Jim Wooten,
I always read your “common sense conservatism” with pleasure. Don’t shrink the debates and don’t waste time with interest groups that support the opposition. I think you are speaking to politicians but voters should also listen.
But…for the life of me, I can’t get interested in debates, ‘specially the Democratic ones. Call it a closed mind but why waste time to hear someone knock all policies of the Bush administration even the war in Iraq.
With these early debates, I just as soon wait and see who is dropping out. And as to interest groups, well…..I am still reading the AJC, interest group supreme, and that says something.
Please hang in there Jim, with your good insight. Without your column, I might drop one of those “interest groups” sure ‘nuff.
By jbmlaw
July 16, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this
Apologies for syntax, did not mean to suggest that Jesus would want to kill supreme court nominees.
By jbmlaw
July 16, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this
On reflection, though, if we are talking about democrat nominations to the Supreme Court…
By Dusty
July 16, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this
EEeeeeee, I might have to agree with RedNeck and that’s a fate worse than death.
But I would listen to a Democratic debate if Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman were participating….. I can dream, can’t I?
By jm
July 16, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this
considering the debates are basically glorified batting practice, where lollipops are tossed to be “sound-bited” out of the park, there probably are too many candidates.
I see Mr. Wooten is once again playing lip service to the “big tent” republican mantra by not wishing to speak to people who might be different in their opinions.
By Curious Observer
July 16, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this
I fail to see what all these minor candidates add to the debate process. They seem to add only by subtraction—they remove time that would be otherwise available for the major candidates to discuss their differences.
If the minor candidates haven’t created a groundswell by now, they won’t in the future. I would rather see a focus on the two or three candidates with the best chance of winning the nomination of each party. I am utterly uninterested in hearing “Tomcat Tommy” Thompson—that’s the nickname he’s acquired from women in federal circles—discuss health care. I have listened enough to the single-issue arguments of Tancredo. And I don’t need to hear anything more from the minor candidates of the other party either.
The presence of ten candidates on a debate stage essentially removes all interest in a debate. Viewers know by now that they aren’t going to hear much from the candidates who have a real chance of being nominated, and they tune out accordingly. And debate rules that prevent candidates from questioning one another and also limit the opportunity to refute assertions made by other candidates further diminish any relevance of the debates.
I would like to see a petition process as a precondition for running for president. If a candidate cannot get two million citizens to sign a petition in support of his/her candidacy, then that candidate should not be recognized by a party. I would have no objection to any party’s funding the petition drive. Such a process might also serve to eliminate third-party egotists who stand no chance of winning but can affect the outcome of a close presidential race—Bloomberg, Nader, etc.
By getalife
July 16, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this
Slit them into two groups.
Duh.
cheney and the idiotic gop want to bomb Iran when most of the foreign fighters are Saudis.
Go figure.
Geez.
By Dusty
July 16, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
getalife,
You better watch it. Sounds like you want us to bomb where all the “loons” reside. That would most certainly include….. Louisiana.
Duh, geez and go figure..
By AmVet
July 16, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this
I commend you Mr. Wooten!
Seriously. This may be the very first time I have ever read one of your columns that didn’t demonize, if not at least make snide remarks about Democrats, and/or glorify Republicans.
Do I dare say it? Fair and balanced?!!
Now if only Mr. Luckovich would follow suit.
The real proof will be when both start hammering their darlings in their respective political parties as well, when it is warranted.
So do I sense a sea change on the far right as evidenced by this morning’s column?
Like Dusty said, I can dream can’t I?
By Jeff
July 16, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this
One Shot Away: The Making of a Marine Officer.
Written by one of the first guys with boots on ground in both Afghanistan AND Iraq.
Should be required reading for ALL, but PARTICULARLY National-level politicians.
Matter of fact, if ONE of them can demonstrate that he has both read the book and applied it to his life, he stands a REALLY good shot at my vote.
By Van
July 16, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this
I would like to see CNN host the Republican debates and FOX host the Democrat debates.
Now those I would watch. With no easy question, the candidates would actually have to think about their answers.
Only problems is Democrats are afraid to come to a debate hosted by FOX.
By getalife
July 16, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this
crusty is the queen loon.
dick is coming to Atlanta to fund raise for Chambliss.
Put up your GFY signs.
That alone should lose the race for that rubber stamper, w w-hore.
Geez.
By RCH
July 16, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this
Van Only in your dreams. Hillary might actually be forced to answer some tough questions. I would love to see O’Reilly and Hillary one on one for 2 hrs. Now that would be worth watching.
By GaLiberal
July 16, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this
Jim, Jim, Jim. You ignorant, neocon, knee-jerk, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, lying Republican mouthpiece. You take what one person says and build up some false straw-man just so you can knock it down without having to prove anything. What Edwards was saying is that Democrats need to get a consistent and focused message (“more serious and smaller group”) instead of shotgunning everything. Clinton’s reply was just to say ‘Yes, we need to do that.’ I wasn’t to cut anybody out of the debate; just an acknowledgment of Edward’s observations. Yet, you used this innocuous conversation to attack the political process. And to respond to all the redneck Wooten butt-sniffers out there, you could put up Adolf Hitler and he would get lots of votes from people just like you. George Bush and the Republicans are a stain on America that will take decades to remove. It’s too bad the South didn’t win the civil war. Then all you backward rednecks like Wooten, Bush, and Cheney would not be part of the United States.
By getalife
July 16, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this
One gop candidate showed up for the NAACP forum.
Talk about cowards.
Geez.
By getalife
July 16, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this
RCH,
Yes, BO told snowjob that you can’t win in Iraq.
So he went to Rush to spew his lies.
Pathetic as usual.
By time for the truth
July 16, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this
INNOCENT BLACK CHAP ABOUT TO BE EXECUTED IN GA?
This case is quite troubling. The largely leftist local media have left it very late to maximise their campaigning spotlight. Its hard to sift through the facts of all this. Clearly a number of people have lied - either then or now. Sorting out who the liars are at this eleventh hour will be a very tough job for the usually very unsympathetic pardons board.
This is a very rare case where the law and the changes made to streamline death row appeals may actually dictate (and triumph) over ‘justice’. Obviously one can only go by what is available in the media and said by the folks involved.
This case has very diffcult to resolve tensions and is quite unusual in that a good number of folks who seem to be credible in their changed stories have very publicly come forward to say they lied and/or were pressured/intimidated by cops and the supposed actual killer. This does occasionally happen.
Whereas the family of the slain cop naturally want their moment in the execution chamber.
No one who is innocent should be executed, especially in this day and age with virtually unassailable (if collected and processed properly) DNA forensics and all the other sophisticated investigative tools available. Wilful and deliberate local police pressure shouldn’t ever decide cases, especially not a capital case.
I think if I were on the pardons board this morning I would err on the side of caution and justice (not sure what all the board’s options are) and I would strenuously argue for a longish stay of execution, not a commutation at this point. Stipulating that a thorough review of this case be immediately undertaken by an outside, completely impartial investigative authority - like the FBI. That’s the fairest and most reasonable attitude.
I wouldn’t want to wake up a few months later and discover that the pardons board ignored vital ‘new’ evidence and arrogantly executed an innocent man in good part because of all the legal niceties of the law.
This case seems to me to be infinitely more worthy of far more effort and noisy campaigning by black activist types than the Wilson case.
By Anonymous
July 16, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this
Wooten: Nice bit of blame-shifting, there. Insist that GOP candidates shouldn’t “waste their time” with teachers or blacks, instead of asking why the Republicans have zero appeal with those voters.
“It’s their fault for being too darn stupid to vote against their own interests, darnit!” Uh-huh. Sure it is.
By RCH
July 16, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this
Galiberal It is odd that everyone that heard those comments, interpreted it to mean the same thing. Even presidential Hopeful Dennis Kucinich hears it the same way. Is this the same as ” I put it to my lips but I didn’t inhale’? They just got caught. Please stop the spin! Sir, what have you been smoking?
By time for the truth
July 16, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this
You ignorant, neocon, knee-jerk, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, lying Republican mouthpiece
dick is coming to Atlanta to fund raise for Chambliss.
Put up your GFY signs.
That alone should lose the race for that rubber stamper, w w-hore.
Yes, BO told snowjob that you can’t win in Iraq.
So he went to Rush to spew his lies.
so NO visceral hate from the far left nutters on here this morning!!!
By InSearchforUniversalHumanExcellence
July 16, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this
Mr. Wooten, Doesn’t it bother you (or at least make you think twice) about how hateful and rude many of the people are who follow and frequently comment on your blog are? It saddens me how this forum is used to degrade and make a mockery of our fellow humans. Is it too much to ask to tone down the sarcasm, cynicism, and name calling? Debate should be civilized, and courteous, even when passionate. The conversations that frequently take place in the comments section of this blog are disturbing. And it comes from both the “liberals” and “conservatives”. I must say though, and I do not identify with either group in particular, nor am I registered Republican or Democrat, but the comments of those who self-identify as conservative on this site have particularly made my shudder, as they have seemed the most hateful and vitriolic.
By InSearchforUniversalHumanExcellence
July 16, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this
Mr. Wooten, Doesn’t it bother you (or at least make you think twice) about how hateful and rude many of the people are who follow and frequently comment on your blog are? It saddens me how this forum is used to degrade and make a mockery of our fellow humans. Is it too much to ask to tone down the sarcasm, cynicism, and name calling? Debate should be civilized, and courteous, even when passionate. The conversations that frequently take place in the comments section of this blog are disturbing. And it comes from both the “liberals” and “conservatives”. I must say though, and I do not identify with either group in particular, nor am I registered Republican or Democrat, but the comments of those who self-identify as conservative on this site have particularly made my shudder, as they have seemed the most hateful and vitriolic.
By getalife
July 16, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this
And don’t waste time with interest groups that support the opposition
Yes, the Dems should not debate on Faux Noise like the gop did not at the NAACP.
Fair and balanced.
Geez.
By getalife
July 16, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this
This is hate “lies”
Death to all limy wankers.
Your type of hate.
Geez.
By Van
July 16, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this
getalife,
Yes, just like the Democrats did not show up for the Black Caucus and Fox News debates.
I guess they feel more at home on the Communist News Network.
By Redneck Convert
July 16, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this
I say put the juice to that cop killer while you got a chance. TFTT is nothing but a librul, acting like some namby-pamby when the date for revenge is coming up. You got to remember it was one of Those People shooting a good white cop. You need to lie a little in these librul courts to get somebody like that convicted. So what? I am a good conservative Republican, and I will vote against anybody that lets this guy off. You can’t cheat me like that.
Well, its off to the Church of Holiness for a meeting for me.
By getalife
July 16, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this
Van,
Yes, they went after wolf blitzer and with his stupid questions.
Great stuff.
By AmVet
July 16, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this
Curious Observer, respectfully I couldn’t disagree more with your 9:50.
Kucinich said it best, “Imperial candidates are as repugnant to the American people and to our Democracy as an imperial President.”
Although in this case, I concur with Ga Liberal’s premise if not his hyperbole and rhetoric. (Sorry RCH. Obviously not everyone who heard the comments interpreted it to mean the same thing.)
The major candidates are just being extra careful to not trip over their tongues (and sometimes as mentioned above, they can’t even do that!) during these debates and their positions are already generally well-documented.
It is my opinion that the minor candidates actually do the real work at these debates. They shake things up and offer the American voters an opportunity to hear alternative ideas and positions that are sometimes at great odds with the Clintons, Edwards, Obamas, Giulianis, Romneys and McCains.
IMHO, to dismiss them and their ideas as “unelectable” does a grave disservice to the electorate of this nation.
And I would never endorse your support for the entrenched duopoly and the mammoth political bigotry of both major parties. Your idea for a petition is interesting, but eerily reminds me of Jim Crow like efforts to have a literacy test, although your popularity test is tailored for the candidate.
Why in the name of democracy would you want to “eliminate” minor and especially third-party candidates?
And I think that all of the major Republican and Democratic candidates, especially the two New Yorkers, are “egoists” as well.
By time for the truth
July 16, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this
HA HA HA HA HA
The illiterate, wannabe yanKKKee scum, should have been aborted illegal Cuban greaseball maggot brain cannot even spell ‘limey’ correctly. Jeeeez - even its attempted effete insults are sullenly moronic.
I see the Aryan Nation’s homosexual aversion therapy plaything, inbred rednekkk has puked up yet more of its nazi like black hate. A typical far left apologist for lynchers is the far left inbred.
Its always a proud day for GA when Vice President Cheney visits, although it is a bit much to stomach when he’s fundraising for that vile illegal leech panderer Chambliss who only very reluctantly changed his mind when the folks bravely and angrily spoke up for the sake of America.
By getalife
July 16, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this
slimy wanker
That better?
Geez.
By To Patrick Leahy fans
July 16, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this
My friends in Georgia.
Please do follow getalife’s suggestion and get those GFY banners out for our Veep.
He will, no doubt, enjoy seeing them lining Hwy. 41 outside of Dobbins AFB and appreciates your interest in our government and his semi-secret role therein.
By Katharine
July 16, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this
Everyone’s thinking is backwards. Candidates should be going to those groups to listen, not to talk. They already talk too much, but both Dims and Pubs are deaf. How can they represent anyone if their minds are already made up?
By getalife
July 16, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this
“GFY coward ” would be a better banner for dick.
“The administration won’t turn over documents related to Pat Tillman, they won’t turn over RNC emails, they won’t let Harriet Miers testify before the House Judiciary Committee, they won’t let Karl Rove testify, and they severely limited what Sara Taylor was able to say in her testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee. All of this is based on dubious assertions of Executive Privilege which must not be acceded to.”
Its not secrecy, it is cowardice.
Cut and run from accountabilty and al Qaeda in Pakistan.
By GrayGayGeek
July 16, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this
Katharine @ 12:03 How can they represent anyone if their minds are already made up?
Now, now, dearheart. That’s the beauty of today’s mostly-ignorant electorate. Those voting don’t have to think for themselves - someone else is doing it for them!
By jbmlaw
July 16, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this
Dear Anonymous @ 11:02, a closely-related question Dems should ask themselves is, “why do Dems do so badly with the military vote?”
Dear In Search @ 11:08, you are new to the blog, welcome. From time to time Jim points out that we have two broad threads daily on this blog, one comparatively serious, and one more free-wheeling. In times past the wild side has been pretty wild, although it is notably more restrained for the past month. For challenging subjects you will rarely read a larger number of intelligent and informed essays that you find here daily by MidSouth Philosopher, Southern Democrat, Shar, AmVet, Van, RCH, jm, and many others. Today our friend TFTT, normally more active on the wilder side of the blog, writes a thoughtful essay on a specific application of capital punishment. I respectfully suggest, don’t simply whine about the conduct of others – post something substantial, and raise the “average quality,” from your perspective.
By BS Aplenty
July 16, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this
Re: InSearchfor…HumanExcrement
Man-up you big puss_y!! I want the genuine, un-varnished thoughts and emotional context of my fellow humans, the kind that allows me to make an honest assessment of them & maybe even reassess my own thinking & motivations.
If you want your political commentary served with a mint julep might I suggest the Jr. League?
By getalife
July 16, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this
Speaking of gop candidates:
“Rudy Giuliani is pro-baby killing Mitt Romney was for baby killing before he was against it and Fred Thompson is against baby killing unless he gets a paycheck, making him the only true Republican in the race.”
Geez, what a field.
By C.W. Odessa
July 16, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this
Wooten wrote, “My rule would be that if a candidate has a specific message to deliver to the organization’s membership, he or she should show up. Otherwise, no. Find another way to reach those voters.”
I agree with Mr. Wooten. Republicans have no message whatsoever for black voters, and therefore, are justified in avoiding the organizations that represent them.
By Jackie
July 16, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this
The Repubs are trying to refine their talking points using circular lies; same lie, different day. Most of us remember what was said and in what context, therefore, the scare tactics do not work anymore. The Dems should have gone on Fox news for the Black Caucus debates. This would give the neo-con audience a view of what their new political leaders and new political direction will look like.
By Curious Observer
July 16, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this
Correction, C.W. Odessa.
Republicans do have a message for black voters, but the display of a middle finger to a crowd generally provokes such a hostile reaction that a prudent choice is to avoid a direct confrontation.
By HS Teacher
July 16, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this
About 1/3 of all NEA members are Republican—just like GAE. Surprised? My goal has been to get more Republicans to particiapte; after all we are the NEA too.
By jbmlaw
July 16, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this
Dear All, a thoughtful profile of Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. that attempts to explain the absence of intellectualism in our modern “progressives,” or to quote one line, “advocating a liberalism that retains the ability to buy votes but not to change minds.” http://www.opinionjournal.com/federation/feature/?id=110010339
By Paul A.
July 16, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this
Good afternoon everybody,
First, I think the debates have become useless. They come too late and rarely contain any useful or interesting commentary or information. I never hear tough questions and when I do hear a question I would like answered it is evaded and all we get is the usual blah, blah, blah, preselected responses and party talking points.
For God’s sake… answer the friggin question you bloated gasbags!
Second, why don’t politicians speak to groups and at events where they’re not popular? Duh…
Why would a anti-gun liberal speak to the NRA at their national meeting? Duh…
Political campaigns are now way too long and ugly but how else can someone raise the hundreds of millions of dollars it takes to run for president? I wish there was a rational solution but I just can’t see it.
Whatever you think… However you feel… please vote. It is truly the duty of every American to show up and fill a ballot.
By Van
July 16, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this
In a perfect world, a politicians message would not depend on which group or organization they are talking to.
Why, we allow our candidates to pander and express different views to different crowds is beyond me. So far, there are too many candidates that do not interest me.
As I suggested, in a perfect world, would the message be any different if Mr. Candidate spoke before the NAACP or the Elks - as an example?
By Dusty
July 16, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this
Hmmm… nothing for black voters in the Republican Party?
Why don’t you ask Condi Rice, Justice Thomas or even Colin Powell if you want some responsible answers? How about Dr. Sowell? I know Colin Powell and Bush parted ways but I haven’t heard of Powell showing up at Democratic rallies? How about the many black soldiers who fight for this country while Democrats demoralize war efforts?
I think black voters can think for themselves and not HAVE to follow an expected block liberal vote.
By michelle
July 16, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this
Jim Wooten - The long-shot candidates reacted badly to the suggestion that they should be excluded. And I’m with them.
I have not seen you express the same sentiment for Ron Paul, Mr. Wooten. I mean he is a fellow Republican afterall…you know, a TRUE Republican. Every conservative news outlet is giving him no face-time….
By Pope rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda I
July 16, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this
Greetings, decent folks and Woo-ten Klan swine, from We your Pope, still in London…
Normally, people don’t recognize Us without Our Pope hat and the various ermine and red trappings of Our Important Office, so We take advantage of the anonymity of the larger cities within Our Temporal Reign to mix with the common folk, and have a brew or two.
There is a pub near Our lodgings called the Square Pig and S’wine Bar. We figured with that name like that it would be a hangout for American southerners visiting England… so We have found other establishments.
Today, though, walking by, We spied a barmaidish type creature in lurking at a side door. A large grotesque woman with a shriveled visage, she reeked strongly with the smell of the wharf and gawd knows what else… she seemed to have the same disregard for personal hygiene that is common among hillbilly and Alabama women.
Thankfully, the strong wind shifted. No longer downwind, We approached no closer than ten feet, since she was one that even Our Holiness did not dare to touch, even with a long pole…
“Evenin’, guvnuh” said in a Cockney street-w******* patois the toothless biddy continued. “Me name is Miss Trixie Shagnasty Truth. Where You from, guvnuh?”
We told her the US, currently living in Vermont. “Me retarded son lives in Atlanta. His daddies are a bunch of Royal Marines that bug-gered me while I worked the docks in Manchester - 9 months later I sh-it the little bassturd in me toilet and I almost drowned him!”
A tear came to her eye. “If only I’d flushed…”.
We felt sorry for this miserable wretch. We threw some pound coins in her direction, as the wind suddenly shifted…
By Van
July 16, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this
michelle,
Ron Paul left my radar when he alluded that we are involved in the War on Terror because of our Foreign Policy toward the middle east.
Wrong!
With that logic, then FDR was responsible for WWII because of our foreign Policy toward Japan and its invasion of China.
Sorry, that showed a lack of knowledge and loyalty to a trusted ally.
By getalife
July 16, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this
Bwhahahahaha.
Great post Pope.
“If only……….”
Geez.
By jm
July 16, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this
Van@3:06 - bad example. Prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor the US had an oil embargo on Japan, force Japanese assets in the U.S and provided military support to China (remember the Flying Tigers).
By getalife
July 16, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
Reid is filibusting the gop cowards
Excellent.
By Bill
July 16, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this
My advice on these two matters: Don’t shrink the debates. And don’t waste time with interest groups that support the opposition.
Blacks conservatives should take note in 2008 election. A lot of black Christians voted on republicans in the last few elections because they were told that the GOP was the party of god. Hopefully they will know better the next time around based on now and whats happen in the last six years. Please don’t fall for that conservative christian lie this time around. The GOP has been the complete opposite on christian principals and support of anything in the interest of black people. Thats why they didn’t show up at the NAACP.
By M. Odom
July 16, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this
I have one suggestion for whoever REDNECK is. Go to Iraq and serve your country!
By Van
July 16, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this
jm,
See the forest please, they were both a result of Foreign Policy??
No, the policy was set by the actions of the Japanese and the actions of the radical terrorists.
By Redneck Convert
July 16, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this
Well, it was dirty of this Pope guy to bring up TFTTs raising like that. A guy got no choice of who his mom is or what she is like. TFTT may act like he come from trash but that don’t mean we should hold his birthing against him. I say ban this Pope guy if all he is going to do is throw off on a good conservative like TFTT and Southren women to boot. Or keep him over there in England.
I see the VP is here for Saxby. The VP is A-OK, but Saxby may have trouble getting my vote after that Mexican amnesty thing. It makes a good redneck wonder who his friends are down here.
By Captain Freedom
July 16, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this
Curious Observer: Republicans do have a message for black voters, but the display of a middle finger to a crowd generally provokes such a hostile reaction that a prudent choice is to avoid a direct confrontation.
The Captain takes umbrage at this libelous canard. We of True Belief welcome the votes and participation of the not-White people of America. There is a long and proud tradition of Conservatives embracing the darker hued amongst us, stalwarts like Clarence Thomas, Claude Allen, and Armstrong Williams.
We are proud to accept the support of men like these who refuse to support the very affirmative action programs that helped them become the shuck’n’jive shills they are today. It makes a White Christian Right Thinker proud to know that his ideas are so attractive that there are people who would abandon and deny their own race — verily, even their own family members — to embrace the ethos of True Belief.
Granted, some of these Brave Dark People have exhibited some troubling charcter flaws (Thomas: porn addict; Allen: thief; Williams: unethical journalist), but that sort of thing is to be expected from people who are cutting against the grain of all that they have been raised to know as decent.
Repression of guilt is indeed difficult, and often leads to transgressive behaviors, but we of True Belief have the unique skill set that allows one to cut ethical corners and Praise the Lord in consecutive breaths. The Godly Sen Vitter is working on a new training program in this realm as we speak.
Besides, it’s not like any of them got a bee-jay from a tubby intern. That kind of thing is really wrong.
By Lisa
July 16, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this
getalife,
Clarification — Reid isn’t filibustering anybody.
To prevent a vote on the Reed/Levin legislation, which would force redeployment out of Iraq by a date certain, Republicans have threatened to filibuster.
The mere threat of a filibuster is frequently enough to kill legislation. This time, however, Harry Reid is taking the Republicans up on their threat and forcing them to filibuster.
Personally, I have no objection to filibusters, which are used in the Senat when the majority has enough votes to pass a bill (51 votes), but not enough to overcome a filibuster (60 votes). It’s a great tool that moderates the Senate and makes it unique (Republicans called the filibuster anti-constitutional when Democrats were in the minority). However, when it’s used to block or kill highly popular (or highly unpopular) legislation, the American people should know about it.
By forcing Republicans in the Senate to go through with their threatened filibuster, Harry Reid is taking their obstructionism off the back pages of the newspapers and putting it on the front pages for all to see.
Well done.
By jm
July 16, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this
Van, much as you would like to believe, prior to both WWII and 9/11, the US was hardly innocent in their dealings abroad. The number of dictators and despots that the US has supported in the middle east is pretty long. Also, when Israel defense forces go about their business, it is no secret that many of their weapons display the made in the USA label. The radical terrorists you talk about have only been around for about 25 years while US dealings in the middle east have going on a lot longer than that.
Since no one likes to accept responsibility for their lot in life (quote from teddy roosevelt: “If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn’t sit for a month”), the US becomes an easy target to hate, especially when religion gets thrown in to the mix.
Do I agree with Ron Paul, no but I also don’t believe that the US is completely innocent.
By Captain Freedom
July 16, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this
Redneck
Please cut the Godly Sen Chambliss a break. Even today, a gentle smile crosses the Captain’s lips as he recalls how Our Good Senator beat the faux cripple Cleland like a red-headed stepchild in the last election. One would think a man who used every possible dodge to military service, as old Saxby did, would hesitate to attack a man who lost most of his extremities during service in the military. It takes a rare kind of “bravery” to attack a cripple, especially when one’s own record of public service is so, ummm, sketchy.
But Ole Sax showed his True Belief bona fides when he challenged Max the Carter Lover and showed him what it means to fight for Our Nation.
In fact, I wish to nominate Sen Chambliss for the Michelle Malkin Rabid Shi’zhu Freedom Fighter Award for his defenestration of that Islamoliberaplegic. Though she probably won’t stand with him because of that whole immigration thing. It just makes the Captain sad when good, Right Thinking people can’t get along.
By getalife
July 16, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this
Lisa,
Yes, they are still a long way away from getting 67 votes to overide w’s veto.
The gop are waiting for Petraeus report and doubt they will ever get the 67.
Only a Dem President will end the wasted lives and billions.
By Redneck Convert
July 16, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this
Well, that fellow that wants me to go fight in Iraq don’t know I already spent four years passing out supplies from a tent in Guam. I would have done some fighting then but I couldn’t pass the IQ test to get in the infantry. Its the only time dropping out in the 5th grade has hurt me. Them danged multiplying tables again. Besides, I don’t think the army would take a 60 year old now.
I want this Captain Freedom to know I don’t hold it against old Saxby for whupping on this Max fellow good. First of all, a guy that has lost his legs and arms after getting blowed up with a grenade got no business being a Senator. We need a healthy guy like Saxby that can get around and talk to all the lobbyists and grab the campaign cash with both hands and hide it good. Where’s a cripple with no arms and no legs going to hide cash like old Herman Talmadge did?
And second of all, I don’t hold it against old Saxby for dodging the draft and hiding hisself in colledge during the war. Heck, I woulda hid too if I was able. Them people shoot real bullets, you know.
And third, this Max guy was a librul commie. We can’t have that even if his military ribbons run from his shoulder to his belly button. Hes still a trader in my book.
Its just that Saxby wants to bring in Mexicans to take my beer truck job. If he had his way I would be sweating it out with a mower trying to get a Mexicans yard looking nice. Thats why I might not vote for old Saxby.
By BS Aplenty
July 16, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this
Re: Bill
In exit polls during the 2004 presidential election only 11% of the black electorate voted for Bush - 88% voted Kerry (CNN). While I didn’t check, I’d venture a guess that the percentage breakdown is similar in the 2000 & prior presidential elections.
If a Republican candidate had to place his/her scarce resources on a demographic sector it seems to me that you’d rightly place less emphasis on the black vote particularly the black folks who constitute a lobby like the NAACP.
By Lisa
July 16, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this
getalife,
I agree with your assessment.
The Congress has a low approval rating, in part, because Americans either don’t know or don’t understand why they haven’t accomplished what they set out to do. But the truth is that every significant legislation that has come out of the House of Representatives (over 250) has been blocked from getting an up or down vote in the Senate. With threats of filibuster, the Republican minority is doing it’s job, and that’s fine. But the media should do their job and report, so the American people don’t blame Democrats for Republican obstructionism.
Also, whenever possible, Congress should pass legislation in spite of Bush’s threatened vetos and in spite of the fact that they don’t have the votes to override. Then the blame will lie squarely where it belongs.
By Katie
July 16, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this
Anybody following the Genarlow Wilson case would be interested in reading Bookman’s column today.
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/bookman/index.html
By BS Aplenty
July 16, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this
Re: Katie
Makes you wonder why the perps in that case weren’t prosecuted under the same statute…
By Gpayne
July 16, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this
When is the Douglas County DA going to be arrested? What’s taking so long? The law is the law!
By Jackie
July 16, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this
Black citizens were exclusively Republican after the Civil War because of Lincoln. They moved over to Democratic side of the political spectrum when FDR and Eleanor Roosevelt offered a glimmer of hope. Those Black Americans that voted for the Repubs in previous elections have lost their zeal for being at the end of sharp and pointed lies. They have moved their affiliation to Independent. Both parties have to deliver of their promises. I don’t think the Repubs will make any promises to Blacks because their are looked upon with disdain.
By Dusty
July 16, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this
Oh three phonies in a row, what is this? The comedy hour?
We get the Pope Redneck, as usual displaying all the charm of an outdated outhouse and just as sweet. I thought he’d be applying for citizenhip in the UK. Maybe he hasn’t heard that they are about to banish nudity in Battleboro, VERMONT. They were hoping to get a law before he returned. Good luck there, Vermont.
Redneck Convert, mayor of his trailer park and undercover agent for liberals, do they pay you for “jokes”? I bet you made two cents today. Maybe you should hunt for a real job.
Captain Freedom, the biggest blowhard of them all. Heard Cheney was in town and Chambliss was doing just fine, so Cap’n Free&False dug up an old song and dance. Somebody done done something wrong about a veteran some years back. What they did wrong was not vote for the veteran because only a few liked his politics.
Then our dear Knight of the Night, Captain Falsetto, tries to turn this veteran bit into a political fiasco of monumental importance. It wasn’t. So quit charging phony windmills, Cap’n Quixote. You are an icon of your purpled past and liberal loyalty.
By @@
July 16, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this
‘Ya know Jim, Julian Bond in 2001 had this to say about George Bush:
At the 2001 convention, which was held before the September 11 attacks, Bond sharply criticized some of Bush’s political appointments, saying that he “selected nominees from the Taliban wing of American politics, appeased the wretched appetites of the extreme right wing and chosen Cabinet officials whose devotion to the Confederacy is nearly canine in its uncritical affection.”
But yet in the summer of 2006 Bush delivered a heart-felt address to the NAACP which was then under the leadership of Bruce Gordon.
So what was the difference between 2001 and 2006? Leadership of the NAACP.
Bruce Gordon chose a different path for the NAACP; not the path that was mired in their victimhood of the past, but was looking to the future. He wanted to address the 25 to 30 year old African Americans who were being ignored by the NAACP and wanted to bring them on board for the future. Within less than two years, Gordon resigned citing conflicts with those old dinosaurs who want to feed their own egos by micromanaging the NAACP and its’ message of “no progress”.
The NAACP can’t even bridge the gaps within their own organization. How can they expect the Republicans to bridge a gap that the NAACP seeks to maintain.
Participating in the debate forum of the NAACP is a waste of time for Republicans, but I don’t like having to apologize to anyone because they didn’t or have others “speculate” as to why they didn’t.
You’ve gotta give Bush credit. He walked into the lions den and he wasn’t even seeking election or re-election. In other words, he had no personal agenda just wanted to reveal his big heart.
I think he and Bruce Gordon could have made great inroads in closing the racial gap.
By van's a nose picker
July 16, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this
We are fighting a war against terror because jews are in Palestine and americans are in Saudi Arabia. We have tried telling them to just get over it but they won’t. I don’t believe that jihadists want us all to be Muslim, they just want the infidels out. Now what do we do?
By DD
July 16, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this
What do we do? Who are they?
WHO ARE THEY!
We cant do anything anymore except watch our own destruction and the worlds in Iraq.
We aint never gonna git outta iraq.
By Dustbuster
July 16, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this
Dusty, you’re a real cornball.
By getalife
July 16, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this
“And on the Republican side, the darling of the religious right, conservative senator David Vitter of Louisiana, has not only admitted to having sex with prostitutes, he would pay them $300 to make him wear diapers. Today that crazy astronaut, called him “my dream guy.”
Today, Vitter put out a statement say that he only started to cheat on his wife after he began hanging out with the wrong crowd-you know, Giuliani, Newt Gingrich, the mayor of L.A.”
Geez.
By Dr. Z
July 16, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this
Getting back to the original topic of “Should any candidate venture outside the party’s sphere of influence?”
Here are a dozen places you’ll unlikely find a Democrat presidential candidate:
1.Any meeting whose objective is to reduce either the number of abortions in the U.S. or the incidence of out-of-wedlock births. 2.Any victim rights group supporting the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. 3.A meeting of entrepreneurs, people who support small business, or other advocates of free enterprise. 4.Any group that believes marriage is between a man and a woman. 5.A gathering of people who support retaining the quality of healthcare by opposing the socialization of it. 6.A meeting of people who are advocates for our military; people who believe that weakness is provocative and that our borders must be secure. 7.Any group that promotes the rights of private property owners. 8.Any group that believes citizenship should be reserved for, well, citizens. 9.Any group that believes business is over-regulated. 10.Any group that believes that government is too large and that taxes are too high. 11.Any group seeking to reduce (a) the costs of operating a business or (b) the hidden costs of consumer goods by reforming tort laws. 12.Any meeting recognizing Almighty God as the authority over government and man.
By Van
July 16, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this
van’s a nose picker,
I do not want to seem harsh, but you sir are ignorant. The Jews you reference, have in one form or another always been in the area called palestine.
I would even hazard a guess and say that the Jewish quarter of old Jerusalem have always been occupied by Jews. Not to mention the large Christian population.
In fact, it is the muslims that are the late comers, they only showed up around 600 or 700 AD.
In recent times, it was in the late 19th century that jews started emigrating back to palestine turning a desert into farms, called kibbutzim.
So, counter to whatever you were thinking, prior to 1948, there were Christians, Jews and Muslims living in the area called palestine, when the UN partitioned the region.
By JK
July 16, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this
Dr. Z, Way to round up your Hannity talking points, line up some pigeon holes, and stuff people you’ve never even listened to into them. WOW! That provides value to the discussion! Well, except for the fact that most of what you said is bull dookey. If it’s okay with you, Sparky, I’ll touch on a few: (1) People who advocate planned parenthood, education, and available options actually promote fewer abortions and out-of-wedlock births, not the other way around. D’OH! (3) Small business and free enterprise are being squashed by the favoritism that big corporate money buys big corporations, not by “socialist” policies y’all like to squawk about but can’t substantiate with actual facts. Wal-Mart’s free pass to anywhere they wanna go, not OSHA, killed Mom & Pop’s smalltown biz. (4) Name one person who has tried to say that a man and woman can’t get married because of their gender. D’OH! You can’t, so point #4 is probably the lamest. (7) Private property? What? Democratic candidates don’t own or respect private property? Since when? BZZZZTTTT! (8) Citizens… WHA? Who exactly has been handing out free passes to illegals? Geeeee, you gotta get out more, Z. (10) Repubs made the largest US gub’mint in history, dude, not the democrats. (12) Church… HUH? You’re free to worship however you like, as are the Democratic candidates. Sorry about their willingness to keep the separation of church & state, though. You may have a valid point there, and most of us appreciate not living in a Theocracy. Can’t have everything; how ‘bout a Snickers bar instead?
By Dr. Z Chokes on Cheetos
July 16, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this
Dr. Z,
Turn off the computer, grab your Cheetos and get back into your E-Z chair where you can watch tv, and Hume, Hannity and the rest can keep you happy in your make-believe right-wing wonderland.
You’re out of your league on this blog when you type parroted factless misrepresentations which had been injected directly into your bloodstream by your television heros.
By Craig also
July 17, 2007 8:08 AM | Link to this
It’s always funny, but a little sad, when the wingnuts repeat word for word the drivel that they’ve been fed by Hannity and the rest. At least put it in your own words, folks.
By time for the truth
July 17, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this
At least the pardons board did the right thing yesterday - hopefully the truth of what happened will now be established and an innocent man will be freed and massively compensated or he will have his guilt unequivocally reaffirmed and the pardons board will decide his fate.
It is quite sickening to be on the same side of an issue as the odious master race baiter J Lewis, who is undeniably one of the most vile of all shrill black racebaiters in modern US history.
inbred rednekkk’s Aryan Nation anti-black hate is as sullenly predicktable as its incestuous behaviour with its crystal meth abusing auntie/sister. Only a liberal super moron could seek to excuse inbred’s daily rabid anti-black racism as “sardonic” leftist irony. inbred is simply a knuckle dragging KKK thug that needs to be nailed to a big ol fiery cross!!
As for the snake bellied child rapist rednekkks NAMBLA - the truth about its own mother and lineage is beyond viscerally shocking. Having one’s mammy literally be an obese illiterate sex addickted Aunt Jemima look alike w hore in a Louisiana leper colony is bad enough. But the child rapist rednekkks is the demon seed progeny of one long drunken bestial night when his Leper Queen mammy voraciously raped George Lincoln Rockwell and literally left both her feet and what was left of her crumbly, dessicated t its in Rockwell’s nazi compound, only to agonisingly hobble away to try and desperately find an illegal voodoo trained abortionist with a golden coat hanger. Sadly the incurable leper lesions, the scabies ridden blubber and the always peeling, frothing cellulite proved too immense a barrier to repeated coat hangers and so the Leper Prince rednekkks was arduously born, proudly oinking like a pardon selling Arkansas rapist in the leper colonies’ only Kennedy funded rehab pig sty.