Thinking Right

By RCH

June 27, 2007 8:26 AM | Link to this

Trust? How about doing 12 million background checks in a 24 hour period of time. How about illegals leaving for a year and returning to pay a $ 5,000 fine. If you believe these things , I have some ocean front property in Alpharetta to sell you. This bill is dead.

By SeSiPuede

June 27, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this

It is deeply important to the president, a former Texas governor who sees the status quo on immigration as a failure for the nation and a looming disaster for his party. It is seen as a major legislative victory within reach. And it is seen as urgent - now or never for him, most likely.

I am perfectly willing to wait for that coming disaster. When the right wing republiscum loses it all in 08, then it will be time to get the bill that hands the country to the dems for the next 100 years. You dummies have acted like such jackazzes throughout this whole immigration debate that I am will ing to wait to see a bill that will go so far up your posteriors that you’ll never pull it out. You redneck, nativist, racist, wingwacks made this a winner take all type of thing. Now get ready to lose big time.

By Anonymous

June 27, 2007 8:31 AM | Link to this

This may be an insurmountable problem for Congress. Special interests and factions are pulling in every different direction, the bill’s amendments are often in direct opposition to each other, and the country is overwhelmingly in support of a “solution” that’s completely impractical. And if they don’t deliver on that “solution” (which won’t and can’t work), they’ll be punished at the polls.

It’s a no-win situation… and if it were happening to anybody but Congress, I’d feel sorry for them.

By Redneck Convert

June 27, 2007 8:44 AM | Link to this

Well, I guess Johnny and Saxby didn’t get enough dough out of the big employers to make it worth their while to buck the GA voters on this amnesty bill. So I guess I will vote for them again when they come up. A lot better than voting for a librul or some libraratarian that jbmlaw likes. Now that Johnny and Saxby have voted against the unions, they have my vote nailed down anyway. Unions stand for Those People and lazy bums and are against Free Enterprise and the American Way. They are just commies pertending to be workers.

It looks like the house will vote the amnesty bill down anyway. So I’m wondering why the senate even took the bill up again.

I guess my beer truck route is safe from the Mexicans for a few years yet. My good pal tftt or The Only Good Librul Is a Dead Librul or whatever he calls hisself these days can tell you all about the greasy Mexicans and the crimes of Those People. Not that he is a racist or anything. He just tells it like it is and does it better than any of us rednecks could. It’s a pity he turned down the Ornery Redneck award up at Billy Bob’s. TFTT is a real hero to us rednecks. He thinks just like us, only he likes to deny it and pertends he’s just being factual.

I been wondering why Wooten don’t ban this God Hates Trash guy. All the guy does is throw off on us rednecks and insult the fine Southren people of GA. Including Sister Dusty and other flowers of our land. He is as un-American as they come. If I knowed who he was I would run him down like a possum in the right lane. Smash him up good. Of course, as a good Christian I would pray for his soul later. That’s the American Way and the Southren Way.

By RCH

June 27, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this

*SeSiPuede

You redneck, nativist, racist, wingwacks made this a winner take all type of thing. Now get ready to lose big time.

I guess 70% of Americans fit this bill. That is the percentage that are against this piece of legislation. Maybe they fit the name calling, but one thing their not. STUPID!

By DebbieDoRight

June 27, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this

Oh well, the bill was dead from the moment the ink dried on the paper it was written on anyway. At least now they can get back to real immigration reform. I see a fence in the works; it’ll fence off all of Texas to keep the rest of the union safe from another Bush-in-waiting.

By harold

June 27, 2007 9:10 AM | Link to this

ISNT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ALREADY ILLEGAL?

WHY DO THEY NEED A BILL ABOUT IT?

IT’S ALREADY ILLEGAL!!!

By SiSePuede

June 27, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this

Wrong as usual RCH. Maybe 70% of you rightest racist redneck bigoted nativist xenophobes feel that way, but middle America, the majority, has the gray matter between the ears to know that this bill is the best for all concerned. But, it is a moot point RCH. When you wingnuts hand the country and the Hispanic vote to the Dems for the next millenium, not only will you get the bill that you bigots trully deserve, but alot of other things as well. Keep screaming loud and long, and please do not be careful what you ask for. Be louder, more bigoted, more rednecky, so you will get what you ask for and what you so richly deserve.

By jm

June 27, 2007 9:13 AM | Link to this

It does not matter what comes out of the house and senate, W the incompetent will just issue a signing statement telling everyone what the bill really means.

By HAROLD

June 27, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

DRIVERS LICENSES IS A BIG JOKE ANYWAY

HAROLD HAS TWELVE OF THEM ALL WITH DIFFERENT NAMES

YOU REALLY THINK THE FINGER ZAPPER CAN TELL IF YOU ARE YOU OR SOMEBODY ELSE? HELL NO. IT IS JUST DATA COLLECTION. THEY TAKE YOUR PICTURE ALSO BUT IF YOU ARE NOT THE SAME RACE AS THE PERSON LOOKING, THEN THEY CANT TELL THE DIFFERENCE IF YOU ARE YOU OR SOMEBODY ELSE THE SAME COLOR AS YOU. IF YOU ARE REALLY FAT THEY CANT EVEN TELL IF YOU ARE MALE OR FEMALE. HAROLD IS HENRIETTA ON AT LEAST TWO LICENSES.

OH BUT WE ALL KNOW THIS IS HYPERBOLE BECAUSE HAROLDS DRIVER LICENSE WAS REVOKED.

By GodHatesTrash

June 27, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

Debbie, you’re on to something. In return for helping us secure our southern border (which Dumbya is completely unable to do) we cede Texas back to the Mexicans.

Sweeten the deal with Oklahoma. Hell, give them the whole damn South.

Please!

By jbmlaw

June 27, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this

Good morning all. I have heard nothing that dissuades me from my “open borders” perspective. Nevertheless, I also recognize that my view represents less than 50% of the country, and I would not wish to impose my views on others. Obviously I need to do a better job selling my arguments in the future (I will not harangue today.) Legislation without meaningful debate and without some reasonable consensus is a formula for a long-term problem.

I believe the bill will get less than 50% of the vote in the Senate, due to insufficient Democrat support. I think it is possible that the Republicans think this is a winning political issue, and wish to hang Democrats with the issue, forcing them onto the record. I also think that strategy is gravely flawed, for reasons well-articulated in this space in the past by our friend Southern Democrat (and also covered well today on the editorial page of the WSJ.)

By harold

June 27, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this

open borders will never happen because then our government couldnt scare us into believing they are keeping us safe from furrigners

if our government isnt keeping us safe from dangerous furrigners, what good are they?

By Southern Democrat

June 27, 2007 9:28 AM | Link to this

Way to go, hard-liners! You’ve succeeded in maintaining the status quo that you’ve been complaining about for 20 years. Enjoy your hard-fought victory.

Go ahead and talk about “enforcing already existing laws.” Just out of curiosity, where’s that money going to come from? Are you going to do away with your tax cuts? Are you going to remove subsidies for oil companies or farmers? Similarly, are you going to give federal judges their first raises in 15 years?

The current law is broken. The proposed law was an (imperfect) solution. We’ve been through this before, America, in 1964.

If you think immigrants, legal or illegal; Hispanic, African, Asian, Eastern European or other, have affected your quality of life, you’re right. They’ve IMPROVED IT.

Just out of curiosity, as the Baby Boomer generation enters full retirement, how are we going to stem the tide of manufacturing jobs going to Asia and Latin America? How are we going to pay for Social Security with a diminished tax base? How are we going to fill high tech positions as more American schools are inundated with foreign students who cannot secure visas to stay here?

I have no tolerance for any more of this ignorance.

By RCH

June 27, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

SiSePuede Sorry,those polls do reflect middle America. They are tired of being lied to. Look at Gwinnett County. Passing laws making enforcement of citizenship a requirement of doing buisness with the county. Who is protesting this action ? Since when is enforcing the law illegal?

By Anonymous

June 27, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

By the way, Wooten disobeyed orders in his title. You’re suppposed to call it the “amnesty bill,” Jim, not the “immigration bill.” AMNESTY, remember? Control your words so you can control the debate!

By getalife

June 27, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this

Trust was lost when they lied about WMD’s in Iraq, occupied anyway and when the people spoke in 06 to get out, the gop did not listen.

Get a clue people, we are not represented in federal government. It will be the States that legislate illegal immigration.

No taxation without representation. We should not pay federal taxes. Corporations are represented not the people.

The federal government is broken so why fund a broken a system?

By Van

June 27, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

In 1986, they promised to secure our borders, we are still waiting.

Teddy says we are going to secure our borders, hey, I really trust him.

It is very simple, we have a 3000+ mile northern border and a 2000+ mile southern border that is as porous as DebbieDoRight head.

Ted and company want to reward illegals with a path to citizenship - why? Let them have a Z-visa, but no right to citizenship, they did break the law.

Another problem with this bill is there is no increase in the penalty for entering this country with out the proper papers, no penalty for using a false id to get work, no penalty for using forged or stolen drivers licenses.

The 24 hours to perform the background check is so blatantly stupid that only a Kennedy in a scotch stupor could even come up with this.

By DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL LEECHES NOW

June 27, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

@ vileillegalpanderer 8.27 am

slimy greasy racist human scum like you need to be DEPORTED IMMEDIATELY!!

the equally racist inbred rednekkk needs not only a sit down meet with the bloods and crips in a hippety hop hood for its unremitting anti-black racism but richly deserves an MS 13 style traitor trial. inbred’s despicable racial dishonesty is typical of a sick twisted liberal racist. as inbred clearly knows conservatives and at least 70% of Americans want the illegals swiftly dealt with and denied amnesty!! TREAT THEM THE EXACT SAME WAY MEXICO TREATS ITS OWN ILLEGALS!! the huge, growing number of crimes committed by illegal mexican types are glossed over by the leftist pandering media. the number of illegals in jails - local/state federal - nationally is pushing 30% of the total jail population. the 20 million or so mostly poorly educated illegal leeches already here will bring in at least another 20 million leeches to freeload - and that’s just if each one sponsors just ONE poorly educated family member. given the breeding like rabbits culture in mexico etc the actual number of illegals and their families allowed in will likely be closer to 60 million, and that’s ONLY the figure if they bring in two people each. go ask ordinary Americans about the swamping of their schools by poorly educated illegals and their illegal kids who often refuse to learn English and get real nasty when challenged about the refusal to integrate. ordinary American kids in border areas and now all across the US are having their education RUINED by illegals. tens of millions of dollars is being p!ssed away by schools having to pander to illegals and waste precious resources teaching unwilling sullen illegals pigeon English which most deliberately refuse to speak anyway. the huge number - around 2500,000 - of illegal mexican type child molestors here is a national scandal!! the drug dealing/smuggling the thuggish violence etc is all part of a criminal invasion as literally 10% of the entire population of sodding Mexico is already here. and these scum back in Mexico all vote for corrupt to the core leftists, which is why the corrupt hate America demoNcrats demand they be allowed to keep coming and made legal. illegals despicably made legal voted at a rate of 15 - 1 for the Arkansas rapist in 1996. this country will be ruined unless a 2000 mile fence is built and all illegals are swiftly rounded up and deported and exploitative employers are imprisoned and heavily fined. ICE aggressively targeting the vile liberal run sanctuary cities will kick start this noble process - helping to persuade many more illegals to quickly go home at their own expense - OR ELSE!! deny them ALL govt services - including education and welfare. give them only emergency life threatening health treatment. STOP the leeches leeching at ERs for ridiculous reasons and selfishly clogging the system for free depriving real Americans of timely, (cheaper) treatment. ALL illegals should just be deported when ever and where ever they are found. NO MORE anchor babies - the obscene law on this sick scam should retrospectively be changed.

the facts speak for themselves … the 70% poll numbers against this bill show us that the leftist vermin and some gutless yellow GOP turds - including the treasonous pandering scumbag Bush care NOTHING for how real Americans of all political persuasions feel on this issue. Treasonous moral fascism is once again being perpetrated by lying arrogant fascist liberals and their myopic braindead GOP poodles!!

By Emeliano Zapata

June 27, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

From the Wall Street Journal

Immigration reform stayed alive in the Senate yesterday, albeit not without continuing rancor among Republicans. Restrictionists seem to believe the issue will harm the GOP if it succeeds, but we think the political reality is closer to the opposite: The greater danger for Republicans is if it fails.

We’ve written often about the merits of immigration reform, and we have our own problems with parts of the Senate bill. But it’s worth spending some time on the larger politics of the issue, especially for Republicans. They’re caught between a passionate minority of their party — who oppose any reform

See that RCH. You scream and screech about being the majority. LMAO! ROFL! What you are fortunately for this country, are a small vocal group of white trash that has seen better days. You and those of your ilk are finished in this country. 08 will be the end of you. Enjoy the view from that ever narrowing ledge that you are hanging by the nails from. The rest of us hope you fall right off that flat earth you morons cling to. Oh and by the way. Enjoy the hell out of an ever darkening country all you woo-ten klanners out there.

By deegee

June 27, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

How do you ask to kill a single bill based on a lack of trust in Congress and then expect to have a reasoned debate on any legislation before Congress? You think we trust them on some things but not on others? You have Fred Thompson, a career Washington lobbyist and TV star that hasn’t even entered the race for president leading republican contenders in the polls. And you want to talk about trust? This is just more demagoguery designed to deflect attention from what is really troubling the Republican party about the prospect of bringing a large group of Latinos into the mainstream. This bill, like all others, isn’t perfect and everyone knows it. It’s a compromise and the Republicans will get about 90% of what they are clamoring for. There is no sane reason why this bill should be killed.

By DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL LEECHES NOW

June 27, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

judging from crackpipe debbie’s usual insane racebaiting it must be making loads of money off blind illegals with NO sense of smell!! that’s why its so shrill about keeping the leeches here!!!

the very best way to deal with human scum like Mrs JM Karr and like minded yanKKee filth is to develop and deploy an earthquake bomb on the yanKKKee north, plus the freakshow Kalifornia. DUMP NYC, LA, VT, MA, CA etc into the sea and sit and laugh at them floundering around waiting IN VAIN for the coastguard - who they no doubt despise as military types - to NOT come and rescue them. Get rid of the yanKKKee filth NOW!! Passport control on the CA and New England borders. NO LEFTISTS ALLOWED IN. Forcibly Deport all leftist scum back to these sick, depraved soon to be offshore enclaves as they inevitably noisily float like pinko cut and run scum to the surface in the rest of the USA.

By DebbieDoRight

June 27, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this

Picture of TFTT getting hit on at a gay bar!! You go thang!!

http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1753316

By RCH

June 27, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this

Deegee The reason this bill will not pass is it is not sane. I and others have given numerous logical reason why this bill should not pass and those are simply overlooked. Both Van and I stated today the effort to do 12 million background checks in 24 hrs.is insane. Can you do it? Its these types of omissions that will kill this bill.

Emeliano Zapata What makes you think I am white. The greatest majority of individuals by percentage against this bill is African American.

By jbmlaw

June 27, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this

Dear Southern @ 9:28 and Deegee @ 9:57, I think you both understand that I am on substantially the same page as both of you; in fact, as Southern has noted in the past, I may be slightly more liberal on this issue than both of you. (Southern also knows that when someone opens and argument that way, there is a dart or hand grenade of some sort coming.) I support the heart of Mr. Wooten’s thesis today, however: we immigrant-supporters have not effectively sold the virtues of the reforms we suggest. There is a fever raging now, and if we truly care about the fabric of the country, we do not impose our solution.

Yur conservative-opponents (on this particular issue, in my case also) just suffered election reverses in 2006. They feel that loss of power as keenly as our “progressive” friends felt it in 2000 and 2002. The Republican solution – empowering Tom Delay – probably was not a formula to heal the divisions within the country. I am unable to distinguish the ennobling quality of the Democrats’ present legislative strategy from that pursued by Tom Delay. Maybe this is not the best time to impose ideas they are not ready to accept.

By Sam

June 27, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

RCH give ONE….just ONE rational or logical reason. It is totally irrational to not pass this bill nimrod. The status quo is totally unacceptable, and the above posters are right when they say that the bill we will get after the Dems take over for God knows how long will be one that you definately will hate. But go ahead RCH. Keep being irrational and insane. See where that gets you.

By Ronald L. Townsend

June 27, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

For The Record

The 4.4 billion dollar bribe that President Bush has offered to get his amnesty bill back on track is just another example of the duplicity of both he and the elected leaders of this country. This bill does little other than give lip service to securing our borders and amounts to nothing more than amnesty to the 12+ million illegal aliens in this country. I have read the sections of the bill that deal with the change of status of illegal aliens and do not see the $5000 dollars in fines that the news media and politicians keep bringing up, also I do not see where the vast majority of illegal alien head of households have to return to their country of origin.

Under the provisions of the bill those illegal aliens who have been in the country for more than five years are supposed to pay any back taxes they owe whereupon they can apply for citizenship. There is no requirement for them to return to their country of origin, and other than a nominal application fee there are no fines. As for paying back taxes, I doubt this will result in much of a hardship as I believe the majority of these individuals have been living and working on a cash and carry basis, also those whose income can the ascertained have probably not made sufficient income to have a tax liability. In fact, most of them will get a tax refund to the tune of $24.5 billion (CBO numbers) over the next ten years based on the earned income credit and child credit. In other words, they get a free ride to citizenship simply by breaking the law and staying under the immigration radar. Also, under the provisions of the bill they will be eligible for state and federal welfare programs to the tune of $30 billion (CBO numbers) over the next ten years. All without paying one penny in Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, or income taxes. Although immigrants who have lived largely underground for more than five years might have trouble proving their length of stay, and fraudulent claims would be a crime, it would be up to the federal government to prove the claims false. Those claiming five years of residency or more would have to prove they were employed for at least three years to qualify for a citizenship application. Those not wanting a citizenship application would not have to prove employment and would still get their status changed from illegal to legal.

The second group, those heads of households who have been in the country from between two and five years have up to eight years to return to their country of origin. Upon returning to the country of origin the head of household can immediately apply for and is guaranteed a green card and reentry into the United States. Remember, this is the head of household; wife, sons, and daughters can remain in the United States. Again, like the first group, this is not much of a hardship when you consider that their sons and daughters are going to school at taxpayer expense, and will be eligible for state and federal welfare programs. All without paying one penny in Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, or income taxes.

The third group, those who have been in the United States for less than two years, are supposed to be ordered home or deported. This group amounts to about two million illegal aliens. How does the federal government propose to order home or deport two million illegal aliens? How does the federal government propose to verify that this group has not been in the country less than two years? To put it simply, they don’t.

There is a fourth group that few people talk about, those under the age of 18, or those attending secondary education; they simply get to pass go and collect the money.

Then there is the Dream Act portion of the bill. Every illegal alien is guaranteed tuition assistance as if he were a legal resident of the state in which he is attending school.

Also, every illegal alien who wishes to attend English classes at an accredited institution is guaranteed a $500 grant.

If this is not amnesty it is pretty close. So close as to not make a hill of beans worth of difference.

As for claims that the bill makes English the national language, this is a hallow and empty provision. Every Senator and Congressman knows that without a constitutional amendment this provision of the bill will not stand up in court. See the attached Associated Press news report for an example of the mess this country is already in by not to enforcing the English requirement of citizenship. This bill and its English as the national language provision is as empty as past laws. What is required is a constitutional amendment to make English the national language.

Congress also needs to take action regarding the anchor baby issue. The framers of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States never intended it to be used in this manner. Read the debates. Read the case law and Supreme Court decisions on this issue. The 14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States does not make being simply being born within the geographical boundaries of the United States a sufficient condition to make a person a citizen of the United States. Citizenship should be based on the following:

Candidates’ Names Are Tough in Chinese By Associated Press BOSTON - Mitt Romney’s been called many things as he runs for president, but chances are “Sticky Rice” isn’t one of them. That’s how his name might be read on some ballots, according to state Secretary William Galvin. Galvin says the federal Justice Department is pressuring Boston election officials to translate candidates’ names into Chinese characters in precincts with prominent Chinese-speaking populations. But there’s more than a little lost in translation, according to Galvin. Since there’s no Chinese character for “Romney,” translators have resorted to finding characters that most closely match the sound of each syllable in the name. The problem is that there are many different characters that could be used to match the sound of each syllable, and many different meanings for each character. So Mitt Romney could be read as “Sticky Rice” or “Uncooked Rice.” Fred Thompson might be read as “Virtue Soup.” And Barack Obama could be read as “Oh Bus Horse.” Galvin’s own name could be read at least two different ways, as “High Prominent Noble Educated” or “Stick Mosquito.” But perhaps the most perplexing translation would be for Boston Mayor Thomas Menino’s name, which could be read as “Sun Moon Rainbow Farmer” or “Imbecile,” or “Barbarian Mud No Mind of His Own.” “To try to make rhymes or approximations in Chinese, you can have unintended negative meanings,” Galvin said. “It leads to confusion. You can render it with a good meaning or a bad meaning.” To add to the confusion, Galvin said, the ballots have to be offered in two major Chinese dialects, Mandarin and Cantonese, leading to even more potential variations of candidates’s names. But advocates for minority voting rights say Galvin’s objections are misdirected. If the translations are awkward, they say, the candidates should be free to offer variations, or look to the way Asian language newspapers already transliterate their names. “We are looking to make sure Asian Americans are able to vote for their candidates of choice,” Glenn Magpantay, staff attorney of the New York-based Asian American Defense Fund, told the Boston Globe. “This is difficult to do when voters with limited English proficiency cannot find those candidates.” Cynthia Magnuson, spokeswoman to the Justice Department’s civil rights division, said a system is needed to let voters with limited English vote without the aid of election monitors. “This will allow them to vote independently,” she said. Galvin said he supports translating the bulk of the ballots into Chinese as required by a 2005 agreement with the justice department, as long as the names of the candidates’ names remain in Roman letters.

We are talking about U.S. citizens who cannot even learn a candidate’s English name. I thought English proficiency was a requirement of citizenship. The immigration bill will do nothing to correct this situation. To correct this situation we only need to enforce the existing laws. If we don’t enforce the existing law, how can we believe any new law will be enforced? The new law has one purpose and one purpose only, to grant amnesty to 12+ million illegal aliens and garner votes from those aliens and the groups that support them, all at the expense of every taxpayer in the country.

By Aquagirl

June 27, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

All this talk about securing the borders is silly pandering to the masses. We have never had secure borders. We never will, and won’t make a dent in keeping out illegal anything, be it people, drugs, guns, etc. unless we spend unrealistically fantastic amounts of money.

The only way to keep illegal things out is to remove the demand. The Republicans have been tacitly endorsing illegal immigration because it’s good (on paper) for the economy. We can buy cheap produce and live in 3000+ foot square houses. Our landscaping looks great. And politicians benefit in contributions from industry that is dependant on illegal labor. Any solution that does not address these demands will fail.

Republicans won in 2004 for two reasons. One, Bush he said they could wage the war in Iraq more successfully. Most of America (with the exception of Dusty) can agree that they’ve f%$ked that up. Second, Republicans spent a lot of time whipping up fear that your next-door neighbors would be two married swishy hairdressers. Americans got their wish…but now the next door neighbors are nine day-laborer Mexicans playing mariachi music until 4am and parking ladder-top trucks on the lawn.

Blame congress for being untrustworthy all you want, but illegal immigration is the fault of no one but the brain-damaged electorate. No one was paying attention to the invasion until it was too late, they were all off watching American Idol and buying cheap crap produced by illegal labor.

By Curious Observer

June 27, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

The immigration bill is merely political staging. The Democrats will use its defeat to nail down the Hispanic vote, just as they will use the defeat of the union bill to solidify support of union members. I suspect the sponsors of the immigration bill knew that it had practically no chance of passing the House and only a marginal prospect of passing the Senate.

Until we get past the 2008 election, no legislation of real consequence will emerge from Congress. For now, the immigration bill is a legislative corpse.

By RCH

June 27, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

Sam Take the example given by Van and myself.Let me see you do 12 million background checks in 24hrs! Post your results tommorow at 11:30.

By GodHatesTrash

June 27, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

Alas, the five plus centuries of European occupation and subjugation of North America is being challenged by an insurrection and infiltration from our southern border of native peoples seeking lebensraum to their old lands in the norte.

Latinos, unlike rednecks, value industry and hard work. This means they will marginalize even further the American lower classes - hire a redneck, watch a fat man scratch his a* and whine all afternoon or try to get a Workers Comp scam going, hire a Mexican, and the job gets done.

What we are watching in the US, especially in the south, is the rapid erosion of all ready besieged poorer classes (it is a mistake to call the lower classes in the south “working class” since so many of them are allergic to work) - they will focus their discontent on the Latino on the color of his skin, the different food he eats, etc., - since racism and xenophobia are an easy appeal to their simple minds.

Rather than enforce the laws on employers of illegals (much easier, much less bloody than fences and roundups), they will focus their fear and rage on the persons of the Latinos, and absolutely nothing will be accomplished, other than more hate, more illegal immigration, more rage, more insecurity, a diminished quality of life for everyone…

Some of your fellow Americans are making huge sums of money off of illegal immigrants - are you?

If you are not, (and you work, which most of you don’t) you are the one paying for it - everything from higher taxes for government services for illegals to more time in traffic (there are about 500,000 illegals in North Georgia riding back and forth to work) to a degraded environment (rednecks building McMansions with cheap labor, buying a bigger footprint house than they could normally afford, then heating and cooling it, and burning up the gas to get from the exurbs to downtown) to a devaluing of work and industrious behavior - why get your kid to mow the lawn when you can hire a Mexican for $20 - why get a job at McDonalds - why work at all? Wages in the trades are getting smashed, for those of you industrious enough to want to work.

Welcome to the ownership society! North Mexico, where the very rich are fewer and fewer, and the poor get poorer and poorer.

And Dumbya is blowing all your money over there so we don’t have it to spend over here to protect our jobs, our economy, our borders, and our environment…

Well, his buds are making money on both ends…

By deegee

June 27, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

JBMlaw, The world is supposed to come to a stop because the Republicans’ feelings are hurt? ARE YOU KIDDING ME????

By DebbieDoRight

June 27, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

From RCH: The greatest majority of individuals by percentage against this bill is African American.

Of course, RCH, while making such a broad statement as this, you have actual numbers, data and facts, to back it up. Why not share this with the rest of the class?….

By DebbieDoRight

June 27, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

Most direct, succint, and accurate point so far on this subject:

The only way to keep illegal things out is to remove the demand. The Republicans have been tacitly endorsing illegal immigration because it’s good (on paper) for the economy. We can buy cheap produce and live in 3000+ foot square houses. Our landscaping looks great. And politicians benefit in contributions from industry that is dependant on illegal labor. Any solution that does not address these demands will fail.

Curious gets runner-up. Sorry.

By Dusty

June 27, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

What a serious subject this morning!! If only I could stop laughing over some of these posts. In fact, I may change my ID to FAIREST FLOWER OF THE SOUTHLAND (Thanx rednk con). Then harold with his 12 drivers’licenses, two of them for Henrietta and now he has none. Way to go, harold!!

And then I almost agree with getalife, a notion that has me worried but I shall carry on….bravely!

Turn immigration enforcement over to the states much in the fashion of Gwinnett County, GA. I find that illegal still means illegal at any level.

Place illegal prisoners in a large camp on Cape Cod along with chicken & lobster plants to keep them busy. The Kennedy’s may donate property near their compound.

Make all “illegals” not only learn English but also give demonstrations of that roach-stomping dance they do so beautifully. That would help us all to “just get along”.

Make all Mexican “illegals” furnish their home address so Americans can travel and stay there for free healthcare, free schooling, and no taxes for a vacation of many years. Oley!!

Which reminds me, banish bullfighting and all “bull” such as blogs. Now, there’s an assessment that Congress has not even thought to throw into the “bill”. Maybe tomorrow!

By Adam

June 27, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

jbmlaw@10:11 …we immigrant-supporters have not effectively sold the virtues of the reforms we suggest.

I think the point is well taken. We are constantly told that any opposition to this bill is solely based on racist xenophobia. However we never are presented any positive reasons as to how it will improve our country and the benefits to us. In fact, many of the “proponents” posting here seem to only regale in their sense of the come-uppance that they somehow feel that U.S. citizens are due. Most of these toilet stall scribblings just exude their hatred for this country and how they can’t wait for it’s demise i.e. SeSiPuede, GodHatesTrash and others.

The present situation of 12-15 million illegals is a result of elected officials, dem & rep, negligence in allowing it to get to this level. Now we are supposed to believe they are ready to enforce border control, but only if we allow those who have already broken the law to stay under some convoluted system of z-visas etc.

Supporters, please tell me why we cannot secure the borders now, stop the flow now, invoke severe sanctions against anyone employing illegals now? As jbmlaw suggests, give us the selling points.

By David

June 27, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

Debbie, RCH never has facts, just the same old tired talking points that keeps him from having to come right out and say that he just plain hates Mexicans.

By RCH

June 27, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

DebbieDoRight

Article by Jim Courri;

As US lawmakers, with the backing of President Bush, rush to pass a bill that grants amnesty to tens of millions of illegal aliens and opens the doors to millions more “guest workers,” a new coalition of African-American leaders is calling the proposal a “disaster for all Americans that will hit black citizens the hardest.”

The newly formed coalition of business, academic and community leaders, known as Choose Black America, held their inaugural press conference at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., on Tuesday, May 23, to express the concerns of the vast majority of American blacks who believe that amnesty for illegal aliens would be devastating to their communities

The “vast majority” by a poll by NBC news is 87%. I guess you can call them racist, xenophobes, nationalist, etc to.

By liberal black racebaiters are evil scum

June 27, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

This black pervert Gennarlow (yet another moronic pathetically stupid black name) Wilson has very sensibly just been denied bail whilst his despicable child molesting enabling defenders whine and bleat about a perfectly legal jail sentence for a depraved video taped molestation of a young teenage girl!!!

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2007/06/27/0627metwilson.html

By Analchord

June 27, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

The Amnestyville Horror Bill now being debated is a obvious travesty of everything Americans hold dear.

I see dead bills.

We should perform amniocentesis on this bill to determine the partisanship of it.

Dittoheads should now think this through. The bill is DOA. We’ve achieved SNAFU. So…..the Mexicans were watching. They had their ears on, their radar up. They know how Americans feel about their very existence as sub-human beings……..the death of this bill has annihilated any doubt they might have had that we revere their souls….the moderate aliens will be drowned out by the more militaristic ones……they now have time to Plan B….time to arm…..time to organize….time to preempt any Dittohead retribution for their reviled presence. How long will they accept being tolerated as unseen and unheard nuisances?

Maybe we should let Paris teach them the missionary position….D’OH!

Expect chaos, and news.

Relevant history: We were once the illegal immigrants in Mexico (texas+California). We couldn’t get amnesty either. So we desroyed the Mexican Army in the Mexican War. Grant was disgusted with America then. He started drinking trying to pacify his distaste for politics and war.

By Cindy

June 27, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

Who is Jim Courri RCH. Can you link us to his article so we can see who he works for? Thanks.

By getalife

June 27, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

Well Dusty,

Of course you agree, it is reality.

The States will will enforce the law because they pay for illegal immigrants.

By deegee

June 27, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

We have had for all intents and purposes amnesty for illegal aliens for the last 20 years. The black community has realized the greatest economic gains in the history of the country since Reconstruction over the last 20 years. That dog don’t hunt. Look beyond the rhetoric and you will find that Latinos have surpassed blacks in this country as the largest minority, and they continue to gain.

By StepNFetchit

June 27, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this

So RCH, are you saying that in some way hard working Mexicans are a threat to the black community? Please explain why that is if you would.

By jbmlaw

June 27, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

Dear deegee @ 10:41, actually, yes. How different would the world be if the Democrats had felt they had a real voice in addressing 9/11, and at the outset of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, or in evacuating New Orleans. The immigration debate is simply the next round, as presently handled. I try to learn from mistakes.

My overriding interest in the immigration debate is to ensure we do not create a “Ministerium für Staatssicherheit” to provide the final solution. I think I now see a world coming where Big Brother will want to examine our papers. So unnecessary – there is no way that adds value to life in these United States. That vision pushes me to the diametric opposite, “open borders.” (Yes, it is arguably a straw man – even I have mindless fears.)

A bizarre side effect of the fever, the word “amnesty” – from time immemorial an expression of simple “grace” – now is an epithet, sort of a “love that dare not speak its name.” We are all poorer.

By jbmlaw

June 27, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

Dear Cindi @ 11:07, you commit a leftist error – “who is your family” is never an intelligent inquiry in examining an argument. Examine the argument and analyze. One can learn from stupid people, too – it is merely a matter of learning how to learn.

By jbmlaw

June 27, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

Dear Cindy @ 11:07, I apologize for mispelling your name - no excuse, just an error.

By RCH

June 27, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

CindY

Jim Kouri, CPP is currently fifth vice-president of the National Association of Chiefs of Police. He’s former chief at a New York City housing project in Washington Heights nicknamed “Crack City” by reporters covering the drug war in the 1980s. He’s also served on the National Drug Task Force and trained police and security officers throughout the country.

He writes for many police and crime magazines including Chief of Police, Police Times, The Narc Officer, Campus Law Enforcement Journal, and others. He’s appeared as on-air commentator for over 100 TV and radio news and talk shows including Oprah, McLaughlin Report, CNN Headline News, MTV, Fox News, etc. His book Assume The Position is available at Amazon.Com, Booksamillion.com, and can be ordered at local bookstores.

E-Mail: COPmagazine@aol.com

By catlady

June 27, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

“I see a fence in the works; it’ll fence off all of Texas to keep the rest of the union safe from another Bush-in-waiting.”

I am afraid, Debbie, that there isn’t a fence strong enough to protect us from this. Besides, we really need to fence off FL for the same reason.

By StepNFetchit

June 27, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

So RCH are you going to tell us how hard working Mexicans can possibly harm black Americans? How long is it going to take you to google up your next talking point?

By RCH

June 27, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

Not that I think a fence is enough, but why is there money appropriated for 700 miles of fence and only 70 miles has been built. Where is the rush to protect our borders as much as there is a rush to pass this bill?

By Southern Democrat

June 27, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this

Jbmlaw & Adam,

Good points and I will try to remove my emotion from the debate (failed at this earlier).

I will try to address the criticisms with counter-points:

1.) Economic - criticism: immigrants are a drain on the economy as they depress wages and are more likely to use public social services, particularly hospitals and schools

Response - as I have said, ad nauseum, a population with stagnant growth needs an influx of wage earners to support public programs or the system becomes top heavy. Immigrants are a HUGE net positive economically and do not significantly depress wages. I cite Germany, Spain, the UK, Japan, Korea, the UAE, and Saudi Arabia have experienced massive immigration without depreciation in wages or job growth

2.) Cultural - immigrants (particularly Latinos) do not assimilate into the “American” culture

Response - Latinos/Hispanics make up a disproportionate number of our armed forces per capita and are fiercely patriotic. We do not begrudge Chinese, Irish, Italian, Poles, etc. from preserving cultural traditions, why the difference here

3.) Strict legality - Illegal immigrants “broke the law” to get here and they should therefore be punished for not “respecting the process”

Response - I’m guessing that, for the majority of us, if our extended family was starving or suffering, we’d do whatever it took to improve their lots. Further, I find it odd that Democrats who encouraged Carter’s amnesty for draft evaders and Republicans who lauded Ford’s pardon of Nixon & Friends, would take umbrage with a policy that containts severe financial penalties, huge amounts of time invested, increases our tax rolls, and, frankly, the voting rolls for the wiser party.

By Van

June 27, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

One aspect of the illegal immigration problem, is why Mexico wants them to go North and effectively seals its southern border?

Personally, I think that Mexico might be a racists country. It appears that the European Mexicans do not wish to keep those with Indian blood in Mexico, but to export them to some other country and keep them from entering through their southern border.

Now, this is just a theory, but it makes more sense than the straw man augments the left regurgitate over and over again.

By RCH

June 27, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

StepNFetchit

No need to google. Speak to any African American in the construction trade. See what they tell you.

By StepNFetchit

June 27, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

I’m asking you RCH! ONCE AGAIN you throw out some talking point that you obviously pulled from the place the sun don’t shine and when questioned or challenged you cut n run. Why RCH, would a hard working Mexican be any threat at all to a black American? I am asking you. You opened that door. Now put up or STFU.

By vandstra

June 27, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

People get way too analytical about this issue. I can’t believe that the United States has to even have a debate about securing the border with Mexico. For a super power to not have control of its border is insane.

Regarding all of the illegal immigrants already in the country, that camel is already in the tent, so sending them all back is not realistic. I don’t have any good opinions on how to resolve that one. They do need to be held accountable for entering the country illegally. Letting them stay and under what conditions is obviously the crux of the problem.

By caniption

June 27, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

RCH, it appears you are wasting your time here with wingnuts who are pro illegal immigration. They’ll call you a racist or xenophobe..stupid word IMO. Then, when you provide them with a fact or two, they challenge you. Then, when you back up what you state, they say you just googled it and don’t challenge what you backed up with. See how it works around here? I’m learning fast..learning how not to waste time here. Good luck.

By deegee

June 27, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

If there is any part of this bill that should be killed it would be the point system. That would do more to bring opposing Democrats and high tech companies into agreement. Link to the article below and it will show how Canada has tried the point system and it isn’t working so well for them. Would-be immigrants have flooded the Canadian system with applications from educated professionals from around the globe but can’t import enough blue collar, semi-skilled labor under the current system.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/27/america/27points.php

By DebbieDoRight

June 27, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

RCH HINT: When you post “facts” post the link also, so your facts can be backed up. Like this.

Choose Black America, a front group for the anti-immigrant march sponsors, Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), and Save Our State, a minuteman spin-off

Your source is a grassroots Anti-Immigration group based in LA???? Why not step it up a notch and post stuff from the Minute Men sites directly? You can do better than that. That’s just shoddy work.

PS: Still awaiting the “source” of the statistics that you quoted which were from NBC. If you post it I’ll read it for myself. Although I appreciate your explaining it to me, I’d rather muddle through it on my own.

By Emelio Zapata

June 27, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

And that is exactly what RCH wants deegee. That is his agenda. He is nothing but a fraud.

By RCH

June 27, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this

Southen Democrat

1.) Economic - criticism: immigrants are a drain on the economy as they depress wages and are more likely to use public social services, particularly hospitals and schools

Response - as I have said, ad nauseum, a population with stagnant growth needs an influx of wage earners to support public programs or the system becomes top heavy. Immigrants are a HUGE net positive economically and do not significantly depress wages. I cite Germany, Spain, the UK, Japan, Korea, the UAE, and Saudi Arabia have experienced massive immigration without depreciation in wages or job growth

When is the last time you spent any time in Germany. After WWII, Germany needed workers to repair its infrastructure. This was the course until the middle 80’s. However ,now to the slowing economy and addition of East Germany, there is a high rate of unemployment you may have seen in the news, there have been many demonstrations to rid Germany of these foreign workers. The German government has gone as far as to propose payments to these “guest workers” to leave the country. Your point is not valid.

By Emelio Zapata

June 27, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

BRAVO, DebbieDoRight!! You exposed old RCH’s hindquarters with that one. Now we know where he goes to get his talking points. YOU GO GIRL!

By BS Aplenty

June 27, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

To our charming friends SissyPuede & Emilio bug-Zappa

Chicas, I’m always entertained by foreigners & domestic mud servants who tell me how my country ought to be run and then threaten me if I don’t do what they want…hmmm…ladies, you’re not in grade school anymore and this is the big peoples table…be careful what you ask for…

By Don

June 27, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

BS aplenty you sure picked an appropriate name. Cuse you are full up with it. Go back and complete the 5th grade Jethro! What a redneck cretin! LMAO

By RCH

June 27, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

DebbieDoRight I read him directly. I would not be surprised if some of his columns were picked up by the minute men. Would you not use statistics that support you argument? I guess if you oppose this bill it makes you a grass roots anti-immigration group. But the fact is still what I stated. Most African Americans are against this bill.Change that.

I will get you the NBC site. Read it about a month ago during the first debate.

By 911

June 27, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

If I owned a business I wouldn’t hire any of you fat,lazy,out of shaped Americans either!(Black or White),All you guys do is surf the internet,blog all day,take 4 or 5 smoke breaks,4 or 5 coffee breaks,long lunches,gossip with co-workers,talk and text on your cell phones,call in sick,late for work,leave early for work,complain all day about your job,etc.While the Mexicans or “illegal aliens” work harder and have pride there work.And its not just the Mexicans that have good work ethic,I have noticed it any other foreigners like,the Asians,Africans,Indians,Arabians,etc.Even in the School systems the foreigners are doing better than us,while your kids are at college going to football games,binge drinking,and partying,they are stuyding and majoring in Medicine,Enginering,and other high tech fields.So Americans I have a challange,why don’t we learn to develop good work ethics and teach them to our children so they can compete in this country.Teach them that just because you have a college degree does not mean you are going to start off making 6 figures soon as you graduate,you have to start from the bottom and work your way up.Well I have to go back to work! I don’t have time to sit and blog all day with you people!

By catlady

June 27, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

I would suggest those who believe we have a problem with illegal immigration look at it the way I learned to look at behavior problems when I taught special ed: figure out what the unwanted behavior is, and what the “payoff” for the behavior is for each of the stakeholders, and then take away the “payoffs” for each of the stakeholders. It is not, as our president would wish, to reconceptualize the problem, ie to call it something it is not.

Here are the problems, as I see them (feel free to add):

We are not acting as a sovereign nation (insecure borders)

Many people are in this country without permission due to the insecure borders. They have not followed established procedures to immigrate, while others are waiting.

Some of these people are ill or might have ties to terrorist groups—we have no idea

Some of these people are causing additional crime problems in our country.

Many of these people are using expensive services paid by taxes

Many businesses use these workers to increase their profits, with impunity

There is a perception that these people depress wages, especially for unskilled workers

There is a perception that Americans won’t do the work these people do for the same pay or at all

Much money flows out of our country back to the “home” countries

Some of these people work on a cash basis and avoid some taxes

Many of these people are very fertile. Their children are American citizens if born here and qualify for subsidies.

Some of these people do little to assimilate

There are many forms of fake ID being used. It is difficult to identify who is legal currently.

Sending countries seem to have no interest, at best, in ending this immigration.

Our government is perceived as, at best, inept at dealing with the problems.

Many Americans are tired of the above.

Now, design measures

By vandstra

June 27, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

Why do I get the feeling you all did not make the high school debate team so you are living out your shattered dreams via this blog?

By Adam

June 27, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

*Southern Democrat @11:41

Thank you for your reasoned reply. However, I have to disagree.

Economic: Your statement that immigrants are a huge net positive is just not so, especially if you concentrate on just the illegals. From the evidence I have seen, the total spent on this group including education, medical services etc to their now natural born children far exceeds any tax paid by them.

Cultural: The groups you mention have been much quicker to assimilate due to fewer numbers over a longer period of time. The primary problem with the current illegals is that there are massive numbers pouring into our society and because of their illegal status they are living in their own enclaves with little motive to assimilate. I don’t think there is anything unique about them being Hispanic, just the sheer numbers overwhelm the ability to smoothly absorb into our communities.

Strict Legality: I certainly don’t blame them for trying to go somewhere to earn a better living, I would probably do the same but how about doing it legally. Just because I want money is not an excuse to commit a crime. As far as starving back home, I haven’t read about mass starvation in Mexico. Leave the hyperbole to others in your party.

By DebbieDoRight

June 27, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

jbmlaw: One can learn from stupid people, too – it is merely a matter of learning how to learn.

This ones gonna come back and bite you in the arse, as twisted sister is want to say.

Top Five Stupid People You Can Learn From:

FIVE: Mark Foley — You can learn to never TEXT sexual innuedos to teenage boys and expect them not to keep them and share them with the media.

FOUR: Jerry Falwell — You can learn how to becomes the object of nationwide ridicule after you issue a warning that Tinky Winky, of “Teletubbies,” might be gay.

*THREE: Rove and Abramahoff can teach us how not to “drop the soap” in prison.

TWO: Anne Coulter can teach you how to be a blood sucking harpy and get PAID for it.

ONE: Of course I saved the best for last, George W. Bush can teach us how NOT to eat a pretzel, choke, hit our heads on the desk and pass out. (Rumor has it he was searching for Waldo and got bored when he couldn’t find him)

By RCH

June 27, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

Debbie The original Zogby poll on May 6th, supplied to CNN and NBC. A new opinion poll by Zogby International indicates Americans are hardly pleased with the Bush administration on the subject of illegal immigration.

The poll, cited on CNN’s “Lou Dobbs Tonight” program yesterday, noted a huge majority – 81 percent – believes local and state police should help federal authorities enforce laws against illegal immigration. Only 14 percent disagreed

According to the report, the greatest opponents of illegal immigration are Democrats, African-Americans, women and people with household income below $75,000, those with the most to lose in the job market

Emilo and Caniption Who is doing the taking? Facts are Facts!

By DebbieDoRight

June 27, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

Cindy: Jim Kouri is a nut.

http://www.americandaily.com/author/145

By GodHatesTrash

June 27, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

Some points of clarification - just because I hate stupid stumpbroke redneck trash doesn’t mean I hate my country. This would be the greatest country in the world again if we could just get someone to take out the trash. Lincoln was a damn fool to fight to get you morons back in after you left.

Additionally, never ask a redneck “who is your family?”. S/he likely has no idea who his/her daddy is, and the question dumbfounds them, even more than usual…

By deegee

June 27, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

RCH is probably the most transparent, self-interested, self-absorbed blogger around. It is amusing when he lets spellcheck autocorrect his spelling and grammar. It’s better than Yogi Berra. I get a big kick out it and hope he doesn’t cut and run.

By DebbieDoRight

June 27, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

RCH again post the NBC link with the statistics!! OK I’ll google it myself to see if what you’re saying is truth or made-up fiction. Be right back.

By Jackie

June 27, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

An effective approach to stem the tide of illegals is:

1) Seal both borders 2) Fine the employers heavily for each illegal found working. 3) Establish a bio-metric system to identify each person. System has a fingerprint, retinal scan and a ear print. 4) Enforce the overstaying of visas. If one wishes to stay longer than previously designated, they must apply for the extension.

By Xavier

June 27, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

LOU DOBBS! Give me a break RCH. Real unbiased source there pal. And by the way, don’t you make your living recruiting H1B labor RCH? YOU are the enemy of those people you bald faced lying hypocritical shill.

By RCH

June 27, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

Deegee

You forgot racist, homophobe, xenophobe, nationalist,…fill in the blank. But lets see you counter with some facts I expected more from you.

By Don

June 27, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

He’ll never do it DebbieDoRight. He’s a fraud.

By deegee

June 27, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

Jackie, news flash. The US is surrounded by land on 2 sides and sea on 2 sides. As long as there are boats we haven’t secured our borders. Another border you might not have considered is airspace. Can we seal that with a big dome?

By getalife

June 27, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

RCH sells out American jobs to H1B visa applicants.

Nuff said.

By TomT

June 27, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

By Adam

June 27, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

*Southern Democrat @11:41

Thank you for your reasoned reply. However, I have to disagree.

Economic: Your statement that immigrants are a huge net positive is just not so, especially if you concentrate on just the illegals. From the evidence I have seen, the total spent on this group including education, medical services etc to their now natural born children far exceeds any tax paid by them.

Then give us “what you have seen” Adam. The GAO (Government Accounting Office) states unequivocably that the illegals are a net gain economically to this country. If “what you have seen” is more authoritative than that, please share that with us.

By Don

June 27, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

RCH, we are still waiting for the link to the NBC link.

By BS Aplenty

June 27, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

Re: 911

Take a course in economics nimrod and then ask your professor (I’m not counting on you learning much) which country is the most productive nation on earth, let’s see, is it Mexico? no, see the primary income there is generated by oil exports and, get this, transfer payments from the U.S. (geez, see how productive those Mexican workers become when they show up here).

You’d think you & Duh Don might want to take a road trip and go live there (pick up Sissy Puede & Emilio bug-Zappa on the way out). Oh no, that’s right, you want to stay in the land of the gringos - nothing to do in Mexico except ponder how to slip across the border (or which hand you’re going to get lucky with).

If Mexican workers are so productive why isn’t Mexico the economic envy of the world? Could it be that all those productive American gringos (like your boss, moron, not you) are real, real, real “productive” (smart).

Do me a favor - quit being a burrito apologist.

By deegee

June 27, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

RCH, sorry to offend you. I typically support my statements with facts and links to support them. Here’s a link to polling data collected from a wide variety of unbiased news outlets. They don’t support your claims. Sorry, RCH. You have an agenda and you can’t cover it up. Tell us again what you do for a living and why you favor the status quo.

http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm

By DebbieDoRight

June 27, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

RCH: Looked in NBC’s archives for that poll you were telling me about, (which you conveniently changed to being a CNN poll — which I also looked on CNN’s webpage and couldn’t find it either); I couldn’t find it. Could you PLEASE provide the link so that I may read it for myself? Thanks.

BUT, I DID find this however, this should be really interesting to a few folks.

Home Depot seeks relief from day-labor rules

The amendment, sponsored by Sen. Johnny Isakson, a Georgia Republican, is designed to curtail a practice in the California communities of Mountain View and Burbank, where city councils recently have forced Home Depot to build facilities for day laborers onsite or elsewhere, hire security staff and offer bathrooms in order to get the permits necessary for its operations.

Services for day laborers, he said in an interview, should be the responsibility of local governments, and forcing specific companies to provide services as a condition of obtaining permits amounts to “extortion.”

“Yes, the local government is having to deal with the problem, but the root of the problem is the federal government’s lack of enforcement on the southern border,” Isakson said.

What a freaking slut!! Bend over Johnny Big Business needs a date!

By RCH

June 27, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Don See 12;28.I posted the actual Zogby poll. It originally aired on CNN, however I saw it on NBC.

By run these lefty scum down folks and help save America

June 27, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

these leeches, bigots, eco whacko nutters and degenerate treasonous commie perverts urgently need shutting up … all 26 of them!!!

what a disgusting, pathetic waste of police time!!

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2007/06/27/0627metmarch.html

By DebbieDoRight

June 27, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

Oops sorry here’s the link. I guess we can see with our own eyes without a lot of rhetoric who really is profiting from illegals, and it’s NOT the cities, states, NOR the illegals — they are being treated like serfs.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19453488/

By 911

June 27, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

You people need to get off the blogs and go do some work before the Mexicans take your jobs!go exersice,read a book,do something besides surf the internet all day!Also why do you people care if they don’t speak English or not?are yall planning to start a conversation with them?are yall planning to become friends with them? inviting them over for dinner? I doubt it you guys are afraid they are talking about you in another language!

By 911

June 27, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

You people need to get off the blogs and go do some work before the Mexicans take your jobs!go exersice,read a book,do something besides surf the internet all day!Also why do you people care if they don’t speak English or not?are yall planning to start a conversation with them?are yall planning to become friends with them? inviting them over for dinner? I doubt it you guys are afraid they are talking about you in another language!

By DebbieDoRight

June 27, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

RCH: Dude you need glasses, because in that 12:28 post, you didn’t post the link. A lot of people on this blog like to read things for themselves — if you could please post the link where you got the original verbiage from that’ll be great!! Thanks!

By jbmlaw

June 27, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

Dear Southern @ 11:41, you have nothing to apologize about in your 9:28. Well-written sarcasm – you would know that I would enjoy such style - stands on its own, and I thought that 9:28 was the most entertaining riff you have ever posted. I can see that I never want to face you in closing argument.

Dear Debbie @ 12:27, you are surely correct in your opening note, but you must understand that for some of us there is no alternative to learning from people less intelligent than ourselves.

By Jackie

June 27, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

@deegee

Without visa or other valid documentation, how does one get into this country by air or sea? Did you miss that one?

By Sarah

June 27, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

RCH, so much for the accuracy of Lou Dobbs info.

• On Oct. 30, 2003, a Dobbs reporter claimed that a National Academy of Sciences report showed an economic loss of up to $10 billion from immigration. The report actually showed that immigrants caused a net gain in the U.S. gross national product of between $1 billion and $10 billion. • Chris Simcox, co-founder of the Minuteman Project and a top anti-immigration leader, has appeared some 20 times on Dobbs’ show. But Dobbs has never reported that Simcox says he has seen the Chinese army secretly maneuvering along the U.S.-Mexico border or that he is a member of the speakers’ bureau of the extreme-right John Birch Society. • Glenn Spencer, head of the American Patrol – regarded as a hate group by the Center – has been interviewed on the Dobbs show at least twice, on Jan. 7 and June 4, 2004. Spencer promotes the idea that the Mexican government is involved in a secret plot to take over the Southwest. He has also predicted that “thousands will die” in a forthcoming Mexican invasion. Dobbs did not mention the criticism of Spencer’s group, the fact that he has spoken at other hate group gatherings or his actions in shooting up a neighbor’s garage. • On May 23, 2006, CNN correspondent Casey Wian referred to Mexican President Vicente Fox’s visit to the U.S. as a “Mexican military incursion.” Wian went on to say that Fox’s trip could be called “the Vicente Fox Aztlan tour,” referring to the conspiracy theory, popular among anti-immigration zealots, that Mexico is plotting to “reconquer” the American Southwest. As Wian spoke, a graphic appeared on the screen – a map of the United States highlighting the seven southwestern states that Mexico supposedly covets and calls “Aztlan.” Remarkably, it was prominently sourced to the Council of Conservative Citizens, a white supremacist hate group that has described blacks as “a retrograde species of humanity” and compared pop singer Michael Jackson to an ape. • In April 14, 2005, Dobbs said an “invasion of illegal aliens” was bringing “highly contagious diseases” to America “decades after those diseases had been eradicated” here. Reporter Christine Romans stated that more than 7,000 new cases of leprosy had been reported in the previous three years. The real number of new leprosy cases from 2002 through 2004 was 398, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Dobbs and Romans said their source for the 7,000 figure was the late Madeleine Cosman, a lawyer who told an anti-immigrant conference in 2005 that “most” Latino immigrant men “molest girls under 12, although some specialize in boys, and some in nuns.” • On Nov. 4, 2003, Dobbs’ said “illegal aliens” are “taking up a third of the cells in our federal penitentiaries.” The reality: The Government Accountability Office reported in 2005 that 27 percent of federal inmates in 2004 were immigrants – including those here legally. Another GAO study estimated that just 12 percent of non-U.S. citizens in federal custody were there for committing violent crimes. Dobbs often covers crime issues relating to undocumented persons, but several studies debunk the notion that there is a relatively high level of criminality among undocumented immigrants.

By Lou Dobbs June 11, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this Most of these anti-immigration groups routinely denigrate undocumented Latinos and also popularize conspiracy theories, such as an alleged Mexican plot to annex the American Southwest, that originate in hate groups. As a result, it is no longer uncommon for these ideas and theories to make their way to radio, television or other mainstream venues. Even U.S. congressmen now bandy about unsubstantiated accusations of immigrant criminality, helping to whip up an atmosphere in which immigrants are seen as personally threatening. “This kind of really vile propaganda begins in hate groups, makes its way out into the larger anti-immigration movement, and, before you know it, winds up in places like ‘Lou Dobbs Tonight’ on CNN,” said Mark Potok, director of the SPLC’s Intelligence Project. “This country needs a robust debate on immigration, but it does not need a debate based on racist allegations and bogus conspiracy theories.” Although the anti-immigration movement has endured several recent splits, it appears to be growing more radical overall, particularly since its supporters on the right wing of the Republican Party have grown increasingly isolated and weak as the GOP suffers from election losses and an unpopular war. T Are these your people RCH?

By harold

June 27, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

just who in the hell are we to impose arbitrary borders anyway? this land was here before any of us were born and will be here long after all of us are dead. why should we tell Jose Cuervo that he cannot come here because he exited his mother’s vagina south of the rio grande? That is absurd! Open borders are merely proof that our federal government is useless. That is why people are upset about open borders. We pay all these taxes for what? Nothing! We got “invaded” anyway! Harold says abolish the borders and the federal government but leave the “Illegals” be. It is not their fault their mother’s vaginas were not in the right place at the right time as determined by arbitrarily drawn lines on a map somewhere.

By RCH

June 27, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

Debbie

www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44154

Poll also cited in worldnetdailey. The zogby poll is the most unbiased polls you can find. I found it int because of the African American tilt.

By Ray

June 27, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

By BS Aplenty

June 27, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this Do me a favor - quit being a burrito apologist

That is certainly better than being a Budweiser guzzlin, fartin, belchin, azz scratchin, tobacco spitting piece of white trash like you BS aplenty.

By getalife

June 27, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

Just heard on CNN, Senate committee subpoena WH and cheney’s office on domestic spying.

By illegals not welcome here

June 27, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

Just 22% Favor Stalled Immigration Bill Monday, June 25, 2007

As the Senate prepares to resume debate the “comprehensive” immigration reform bill, the legislation continues to face broad public opposition. In fact, despite a massive White House effort, public opinion has barely moved since the public uproar stalled the bill just over two weeks ago.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that just 22% of American voters currently favor the legislation. That’s down a point from 23% a couple of weeks ago and down from 26% when the debate in the Senate began. Fifty percent (50%) oppose the Senate bill while 28% are not sure.

Among the public, there is a bi-partisan lack of enthusiasm for the Senate bill. It is supported by 22% of Republicans, 23% of Democrats, and 22% of those not affiliated with either major party. It is opposed by 52% of Republicans, 50% of Democrats, and 48% of unaffiliateds.

From an ideological perspective, the bill is opposed by 59% of conservatives, 54% of liberals, and 45% of political moderates. Among those for whom none of the traditional ideological labels apply, just 20% are opposed.

Support is found from 20% of conservatives, 32% of liberals, and 18% of moderates.

Just 32% believe it would be better to pass the current bill instead of doing nothing. Forty-five percent (45%) believe it would be better to pass nothing at all.

If the current bill passed, 71% of American voters believe that another bill would be required to focus on securing the border and reducing illegal immigration. That’s up from 65% in our previous survey.

Rasmussen Reports and other firms have consistently found majority support for a hypothetical bill combining border security and legalized status for the 12 million or so illegal aliens already in the country. However, the data has also shown a huge gap between support for the actual legislation and a hypothetical bill. The reason for the gap is simple—reducing illegal immigration is the first priority for voters but only 16% believe the Senate bill would reduce illegal immigration. In fact, 41% believe the Senate bill would make things worse and lead to even more illegal immigration.

Rasmussen Reports was the first polling firm to document the broad public opposition to the Senate bill. Since then, the findings have been confirmed by and NBC/Wall Street Journal survey and by the Democratic polling firm Greenberg Quinlan. Even polls touted by supporters of the legislation showed a strong desire for more serious enforcement measures. A CBS News/New York Times survey, found that 69% of Americans want illegal aliens prosecuted and deported.

Just 15% of voters say that President Bush is doing a good or an excellent job on the immigration issue. That’s even lower than his ratings on Iraq. Senator John McCain, a man visibly and vocally identified with the Senate bill, has seen his poll numbers collapse across the board. The man once considered the dominant frontrunner for the GOP nomination is now a distant third in the polls and struggling to stay in double digits. Over the past month, McCain has lost a net ten points to Hillary Clinton in general election match-ups and just 16% of all voters say they would definitely vote for McCain if he is on the 2008 ballot.

Earlier surveys have shown that 72% of voters consider increasing border security and reducing illegal immigration to be Very Important. Just 29% say the same about legalizing the status of illegal aliens.

By robert

June 27, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

Jackie…one example. Repeat after me. Cuban refugees. Need I say more. Get a brain how about it.

By deegee

June 27, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

Jackie, See link below for how it is done by sea. By air, US Visas are for sale on the internet. If you have the money you can buy one.

http://usinfo.state.gov/eap/ArchiveIndex/ChineseOrganizedCrimeandIllegalAlienTraffickingHumansasa_Commodity.html

By MD

June 27, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this

Per Mike King, ajc:

Immigration myths and reality Examining claims about immigration reform

Published on: 05/29/07 The debate over the impact of the 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States has once again returned front and center. On such an emotional topic, misinformation is often accepted as fact, confounding the discussion and making consensus difficult to reach. Today, and in subsequent installments of “Immigration: Myths & Reality,” this page will attempt to deal with some of the most commonly heard misunderstandings. WHERE WE STAND The AJC editorial board believes immigration reform must be comprehensive; it must include both better border security and workplace enforcement; it must squarely face the nation’s economic demand for foreign labor; and it must provide an effective and just way to encourage most of the 12 million illegal immigrants to come forward and achieve legal status.

MYTH: Illegal immigrants take jobs from Americans. Reality: Nearly half of the nation’s low-skilled jobs are filled by foreign-born workers, many here illegally, some here with work visas. Illegal immigrants represent 20 percent to 30 percent of the workforce in certain segments of the economy, including some very important to Georgia, such as construction, farming and poultry. Employers in all these industries have reported problems filling jobs with American workers over the last decade. There are simply not enough native-born workers to meet the demand. The Department of Labor estimates the American economy needs to produce 400,000-500,000 laborers in unskilled jobs every year. It’s no coincidence that’s roughly the number of immigrants who have illegally entered the country each year over the last decade. MYTH: Illegal immigrants depress wages of Americans. Reality: The available evidence — and this has been studied thoroughly — is that undocumented laborers in the low-skilled work force have suppressed wages, but only slightly. Had Americans been available for low-skilled jobs in most markets, overall wages indeed would have risen, economists say. Recently, after immigration officials raided several companies that had a large percentage of undocumented workers, those employers started paying higher wages to attract Americans for the jobs the immigrants left. But problems quickly arose. The turnover rate now among Americans in those same jobs is much higher than with the immigrants, employers discovered. Many of those who did get the jobs quit when they decided they didn’t like the assembly line work. In one Georgia chicken plant that lost most of its illegal immigrant work force, the company had to eventually import prison labor and bus workers in from a homeless shelter to meet production demands. Many of the American workers applying for the jobs flunked the company’s drug test. MYTH: Illegal immigrants don’t pay taxes. Reality: It is easy to avoid paying income taxes if you are paid in cash for day labor and the boss doesn’t keep any record of the transaction. That clearly happens, especially with day laborers. But the majority of working-age illegal immigrants are on a payroll and routinely have federal and state income taxes withheld from their checks. They also pay sales taxes on goods and services, fuel taxes at the pump, excise taxes on telephone services and user fees imposed by federal, state and local governments. Moreover, if they are on a payroll, they also pay Social Security and Medicare taxes for which, if they remain illegal, they will never receive a benefit. Economists estimate the Social Security trust fund gets $7 billion a year from the paychecks of illegal immigrants in the U.S. holding false Social Security numbers. MYTH: We don’t have an immigration problem. We have an enforcement problem. Reality: Why not simply enforce the laws on the books? Because, as a practical matter it is impossible. Over the last year — the busiest in the last decade for immigration officials — just more than 220,000 immigrants were deported. It took a special infusion of money to track them down, and these were immigrants with known criminal records and outstanding deportation orders, whose cases are easily adjudicated. Congress could not afford to appropriate the money necessary to launch a huge, law-enforcement effort to track down 12 million illegal immigrants, house them while they await hearings and then go through the legal process of deporting them. While they may be here illegally, our justice system demands they are treated fairly. Besides money, the process takes time. Most opponents of legalization instead propose a strategy called “attrition through enforcement.” By emphasizing the threat of deportation, and selectively issuing deportation orders in a few targeted immigrant communities, life would become so difficult many of those here illegally would leave voluntarily. Advocates of this method are most likely to be supporters of local ordinances, such as the one Cherokee County passed last year demanding landlords check the immigration status of prospective renters. These laws are aimed at the same thing — discouraging immigrants from staying in the country. But such a strategy could wind up hurting more than it helps. Rather than returning to their home countries, the immigrants would more likely relocate to other jobs elsewhere in this country, or they would retreat further into the shadows of the economy. Even with the high-profile, federal raids on large employers over the last year, and after Georgia adopted its own stringent statutes strictly limiting what benefits illegal immigrants can receive, there appears to have been no resulting outflow of illegal immigrants from the state. An estimated 500,000 remain in Georgia. — Mike King, for the editorial board, (mking@ajc.com) Sponsored Links

By DebbieDoRight

June 27, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

RCH went to your site, it did not show the poll, I would like to see the poll. I’m sorry, but since paid political pundits are known to stretch the truth in their favor, I would prefer to see the actual poll instead of someone’s “interpretation” of the poll.

Also, went to Zogby site. The closest poll I could get that came close to what you were referencing spoke of African American Voters In California; who actually took the poll, (1,000) and their opinion on immigration.

Now, I don’t know about you, but I don’t recall you OR DOBBS, OR Worldnet OR F.A.I.R.; mentioning the fact that there wasn’t a cross reference of Blacks nationwide that were polled, only a percentage of Black voters in California that were polled.

Well, with that type of slant, I bet I could do a poll that favors my views too!!! Do you have another link to the actual poll?

By Southern Democrat

June 27, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

RCH,

I was actually in Munich last year (wonderful city) and have spent time in Frankfurt and Berlin (never more than a week). I’m not sure what sources you’re using, but Germany is the most rapidly growing developed economy and has settled some longstanding union/labor issues that were containing what looks to be explosive growtn. The influx of workers from new EU Member States (as well as Turkey & North Africa) has helped fuel this growth. There are cultural tensions, sure, but there are no claims that immigration has harmed their economy.

Adam,

Your argument of course, falls apart when one takes into account the increase in taxation by turning illegal aliens into part of the taxpaying public. The wage depression and higher taxes argument are very convincing arguments for the new policy as the current situation of millions of illegal immigrants operating in a grey market is more damaging to a national economy than an influx of millions of newly motivated citizens.

By SicEm

June 27, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

DebbieDoRight, you are reaming RCH’s backside with the old strap-on today! Keep up the great work girlfriend!

By harold

June 27, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

so cheney’s office has been subpoenaed again.. good! harold cant wait to see how it goes without executive privilege now that they declared themselves part of the legislative brantch

By RCH

June 27, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

Southern Democrat

Try this sight;

http.//www.msnbc.com/id/12935103

We have an office in Heidelberg which I visit often I saw this firsthand.

By Adam

June 27, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

Let’s see - Medicaid, treatment for the uninsured, food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches, prison and court systems, education, teachers salaries, on and on and on. Comparing the minor insignificant costs of all the above in exchange for the massive increase in tax revenues coming from these minimum wage workers? Sounds like a real profit center for us. We always receive more from the poor than we spend, right?

You can make all the emotional arguments you want about how harsh it would be if they weren’t allowed to remain. But please don’t try to convince us that we will benefit taxwise.

By deegee

June 27, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

Here is a good link to an article that shows that of the 800,000+ deportation cases the government tried between 2004 - 2006, only 12 were tried on the basis of terrorism. Who are we really afraid of? The guy that mows your yard and might vote democrat if one day given a chance to vote?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070528/D8PD6FI00.html

By deegee

June 27, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

Germany is one of the most nationalistic nations in Europe. Third generation Turks born in Germany are stilled considered foreigners to the Aryan Germans. Not exactly apples and oranges.

BTW, for those of you that would like to read the article that RCH provided us, please note that the high-tech RCH incorrectly placed a period in the hyperlink instead of a colon next to the “p” in http. I guess there are some jobs that spellcheck just can’t replace.

By George

June 27, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

By Adam

June 27, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

You can make all the emotional arguments you want about how harsh it would be if they weren’t allowed to remain. But please don’t try to convince us that we will benefit taxwise.

Adam. #1 we don’t have to try to convince YOU of anything. The tax issue is crystal clear and backed up by fact. GAO, SSA, etc. IF you are genetically predisposed to get your “facts” from minuteman type sites, feel free. But little boy, you are the one arguing from emotion. Obviously to anyone with common sense and a functioning brain, it is obvious that the tax base wil expand WHEN not if, these people are legalized. That’s a no brainer to anybody that has one.

By Dusty

June 27, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this

deegee 2:20

What other laws do you want us to overlook? Have you ever heard of the Immigration laws of this country? Those who break them are called “illegal” and that is for good reason. They have not adhered to law.

Most people that “break” the law have good reasons (excuses) for doing it. Somebody robs a bank. Needs money. OK?? Somebody shot a supervisor who did not treat him “right”. OK?? Someone molests a child ‘cause the same thing happened to him. OK???

How far do you want to carry this line of thought? Illegal immigrants are not necessarily “bad criminals” but they are breaking the law. I prefer a society which values the law, not one run on anarchistic principles.

By deegee

June 27, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

Whoa, Dusty!! Looks like I found out what you’re afraid of. How about this, enforce traffic laws. Jail everyone that breaks the speed limit. No amnesty in the form of a ticket and a fine. Cuff ‘em and send ‘em off to jail. That should do it.

By OfficerFriendly

June 27, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

And so are you Dusty. Everytime you bust the limit on our streets and highways you are breaking the law. CRIMINAL!

By RCH

June 27, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

Degee S.D. clearly said Germany. I think I made my point. As stated previously ,I view many screens at once, make a few mistakes here and there. Forgive.

By PragmaticMan

June 27, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

You naysayers give me just one way that it is logical, rational, or practical to have 12 million plus folks not paying taxes in some cases, driving without licenses and insurance, etc. when they could be doing all 3, which in the logical mind, benefits us all.

By RCH

June 27, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

degee and Officer Friendly My point. You break the law and get caught you pay a fine, or eventually you loose your license. If you drive drunk you go to jail. They don’t say” that’s O.K.,you broke the law so we will let you speed and drive drunk again.” If I get a ticket in the near future I sure would like both of you to represent me in front of that judge with your logic. I feel that I will probably have to pay a large fine or do prison time.

By Redneck Convert

June 27, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

Well, I guess this RCH guy is waddling after this DebbieDoRight finished with him. Serves him right for bringing in furriners to take the jobs of good rednecks that could do computer jobs if they was just trained a little in how to plug them in and such.

By walterHill

June 27, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

PragmaticMan, their dumb redneck azzes would rather b*** about it then fix it. And we all know what their problem really is. They just smokescreen all that with their illogical arguments.

By Adam

June 27, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

George@2:42 and TomT@12;51

Could either of you deep thinkers please supply a link to the GAO report you so breathlessly cite? You know, the one that clearly states how granting government benefits to the illegals will be more than offset by increased tax revenues coming the same set of illegals?

By the way guys, what did you think of the new Michael Moore movie? Is it as good as Star Trek???

By BS Aplenty

June 27, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

Re: George

I’ll be as respectful as possible to you since I really like George Washington.

Adam draws a savvy, if instinctive, conclusion in his post. It’s difficult to allocate costs to complex products or sometimes even simple ones much less to a U.S. worker taking “benefits” from so many sources.

Ask the General Accounting Office how many ways there are to allocate costs to a worker-product. Or ask your company’s accounting officer what’s the total cost of a worker (all benefits) to a company? Between accountants you will almost certainly get different responses depending on the method they use to allocate costs between workers - and I really doubt they’ll say that cost is “unequivocal.”

Adam’s insight in the issue is when he treats the worker as a profit center - not how much each of us costs the country or if we’ll produce some tax revenue increase. But how much does each of us produce for our country - relative to our “cost”? And would it be better to import the more profitable workers? Well worth considering and I’m sure they make just such judgements at INS (we like trained engineers, doctors, etc.)

The use of the word “unequivocal” in the GAO analysis is your downfall to a seasoned accountant. There’s just little that’s unequivocal in the world of cost allocation.

By SamIam

June 27, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

WASHINGTON - The Senate on Wednesday killed a Republican proposal to require all adult illegal immigrants to return home temporarily in order to qualify for permanent lawful status in this country.

Also defeated was a Democratic bid to restrict legal status to those who have been in the United States for four years.

The vote was 53-45 to table an amendment by Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, to require that illegal immigrants go home within two years in order to qualify for a renewable Z visa to live and work lawfully in the United States.

The bill, which could grant lawful status to as many as 12 million illegal immigrants, requires only heads of household seeking permanent legal residency to return home to apply for green cards.

That just in rednecks.

By deegee

June 27, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

RCH, you missed the point. The law says that if you drive 56MPH in a 55MPH zone than you have broken the law. The law says that it is an offense for which you can go to jail. It is customary to give the offender the republican definition of amnesty which is a ticket and a fine. My point is that if you want to follow the republican credo and prosecute all law breakers to the full extent of the law then speeders should be given jail time.

By GodHatesTrash

June 27, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

Most illegals come from countries where government corruption is endemic, where tax collections are sporadic and even more arbitrary than the US, and from cash economies. Here in the US they get jobs as day labor and cash paying jobs - jobs where they will work cheap, for cash, no benefits. They don’t report income, and they won’t when they become legal citizens - as a for instance, do you think tft tranny’s mother ever paid any taxes on the cash she made w-horing?

Do any of you filthy rednecks pay taxes on the money your wives make w-horing? Your kids make selling meth? Your pappy gets for makin’ ‘shine? The money you steal from the collection plate? Your burglary and fraud activities?

Of course not. Even you aren’t that stupid. And that 1040 short form is way beyond you anyway.

By Southern Democrat

June 27, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

RCH,

This is more recent: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2609349,00.html

Interesting concept, no?

Maybe it is helping with this:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601100&sid=aUyPvyOm0PM4&refer=germany

By Robert

June 27, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

More BS from BS aplenty. What an appropo name for that moron.

By Jackie

June 27, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

@Robert

It is apparent that you don’t have a clue. Cubans are not illegals if they set foot on American soil! You just getting back from Mars?

By Dusty

June 27, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

Deegee and Officer Friendly,

Of course speeders should get traffic tickets. That’s the law. And I bet any time a speeder hits your car you will holler that he was breaking the speed limit and you want your “rights” enforced.

That is one problem with our expressways, people who do not abide by traffic laws. There are not enough officers to catch them. But these lawbreakers still cause problems and that is why the laws were made in the first place.

Thus it is with Immigration. We have laws established for the good of the country, not a law to break for those who feel like coming here anytime anywhere.

We have a legal system. It should be used. (And don’t bother to say that I am racist. I have a Hispanic, South American, in my family. We love him. He came legally.) That is the way to do it.

Goodbye..see ya tomorrow… maybe..

By Tom

June 27, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

No Jackie, he just gave you an example of how people come here by sea you dumbazz. He didn’t say one word about legal or illegal. But to make it simple for a dumb bimbo like you Jackie…it’s caleed floating here on a bouyant object. DUHHHHHHHH!!!!!

By Jackie

June 27, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

@deegee

If they get the documents illegally, are they not illegal? If our documentation process is updated to include encryption and digital security measures, this problem would be minimized.

By RCH

June 27, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

S.D. Interesting.Give me a chance to study.

Deegee When is the last time you got a ticket. Certain offenses set maximums on penalties: $100 0r 1 day in County jail. Try a DUI, you will recieve jail time But either way you pay. With illegal aliens they may pay a small price but in the end they will get what they wanted in the first place;citizenship or the right to stay here. So crime does pay.

By deegee

June 27, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

Okay, Jackie. Let’s try this again. Haitians.

By Jackie

June 27, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

@Tom

I didn’t realize that frog faces like you knew how to scratch their watches or wind the a*******e$.
Once inside the 25 mile limit by sea, you area in US territorial waters, therefore, you are deemed to be legal if Cuban if you touch US soil, or, illegal if you are not Cuban. Now scratch you watch because you have your head up your rear!

By deegee

June 27, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

Jackie just shared everything she knows about immigration law with us. She can’t go any farther. Let’s just say “Wow” and let her believe she did a great job.

By Tom

June 27, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

Jackie…you started all this with your seal the borders lunacy as if that is truly possible. Then you asked the dumbest question that anyone has ever asked here asked just “how someone could come here by sea or air.” Well duhhhhhhhh Jackie. They just get on somethihng that floats you brainless twit. Not one word was said about legal or illegal. It was all about you not understanding the concept of just floating right on in. Double Duhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

By deegee

June 27, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

Dusty, you missed the point. No more amnesty for speeders in the form of tickets and a fine. It’s jail time. That’s what you sound like to me.

By Robert

June 27, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

By Jackie

June 27, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

@deegee

Without visa or other valid documentation, how does one get into this country by air or sea? Did you miss that one?

HEY JACKIE! They float in! LMAO! ROFL!

By GodHatesTrash

June 27, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this

Rednecks - some s-hit dissolves in water.

You won’t. Take a damn shower already!

By PopeyeTheSailor

June 27, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

Jackie, your brain is like a leaky Cubano raft. Your own words sank you. Now go take another stupid pill and give us some more dumb sh&t for us to use to kick you around with.

By jbmlaw

June 27, 2007 4:17 PM | Link to this

Dear BS Aplenty @ 3:16, great argument, maybe the most substantial essay on the blog today, even if not exactly addressing the topic. Hope you saw Dr. Williams’s essay today, nice corollary to your point. “Straight Thinking 101”@ http://www.townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/archive.shtml.

I really like your blog handle, you must be an old Dick Tracy fan.

By Jackie

June 27, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

@Robert

You watch still needs winding. I did not make any such statement about them getting her by sea or air; if you will look at the posts, I am sure degee made that statement! As far as dumb statements, get your head out of your hip!

@degee You still insist that when people come to the USA, be it by land, sea or air, without proper documentation or staying past the time allocated for their stays, they are illegals. These situations need to be addressed by the methods I stated earlier. It does not matter if they were transported from the Enterprise, without documentation that is valid , or, staying past their documentation timeframe, THEY ARE ILLEGAL!!!!!!!!!

By kill a liberal a day for America

June 27, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

I see Mrs Oedipus J M Karr-NAMBLA is deeply ashamed of its terrorist luvin’ rednekkks name so it now uses a rather terse description of it’s own worthless leprosy ridden whoralicious mother.

ILlegals are simply that - colour/race is irrelevant. I demand in the name of all that is reasonable and law abiding that illegal white Canadians and aussies are rounded up along with the 15 million or so Mexican type leeches!! + all the other third world illegal interlopers need to go home too!!

By PopeyeThe Sailor

June 27, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

Jackie…those are not your words at 1:14pm in reply to deegee? It is what it is Jackie. You said it. Now own it….no matter how stupid it may be. You are embarrassing yourself now Jackie.

By Robert

June 27, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

By Jackie

June 27, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

@deegee

Without visa or other valid documentation, how does one get into this country by air or sea? Did you miss that one?

There they are Jackie. Your words. DUHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

By deegee

June 27, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

Good God! Could anyone have made a better case in favor of immigration reform than lunatic Jackie? Please don’t follow those lemmings to the sea.

By good riddance to towel head terrorists

June 27, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

WELL DONE ISRAEL …

TWELVE more ARAB TERRORIST SCUM ARE DEAD in the snakepit of Gaza … 12 less to have to deal with in the future!!

A good result in anyone’s book!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6243974.stm

By getalife

June 27, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

My goodmess, the gop are cutting and running from this bill faster than w and cheney cut and run from accountability.

Geez.

By BS Aplenty (Flashback)

June 27, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

Re: jbmlaw

There may be some subconscious remembrance of B.O. Plenty but just barely.

By deegee

June 27, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this

I hope Lou Dobbs doesn’t bust an artery tonight. He was wound up like a top last night. I wonder how many times he can say amnesty in one broadcast?

By Jackie

June 27, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this

@degee

I do believe that you don’t know what you are talking about and your ability to read and follow logically is that of a child. You are trying to make your argument based on snipets of information. Immigration reform is needed and you need to take all of your prescription.

@Robert You need to read the posts because you too are trying to take parts of the conversation to make it whole.

@Popeye The Sailor You just got off the boat and must have a severe case of being seasick.

If you come to this country without proper documentation or you overstay your visa, you are illegal, plain and simple.

Now, you three morons, parse that statement.

By Freddie

June 27, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this

Jackie, are those not your words at 1:14. If they are own em. You are looking really dumb in here today.

The sentence you wrote only ask how they come in by sea or air. Plain and simple Jacieazz. Are those your words at 1:14?

By Sarah

June 27, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this

By Jackie

June 27, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

@deegee

Without visa or other valid documentation, how does one get into this country by air or sea? Did you miss that one?

Jackie, is that your post?

By Carl

June 27, 2007 6:08 PM | Link to this

Jackie. How do you seal borders from floating objects? Those are your words at 1:14. But giving you the benefit of the doubt, tell us how to seal the ocean.