Thinking Right

By Brian Curtis

May 23, 2007 8:47 AM | Link to this

“The party of big government”… oh, that’s some funny, funny stuff, Wooten. I had no idea you were such a humorist!

Or are you not aware that this label you’re using applies equally well to BOTH parties?

By Dave

May 23, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this

Honestly, the Republican party has been split for a while and has been sticking together as an opposition to the Democratic party.

Unfortunately, the Libertarian party has some unacceptable positions which are preventing those dissatisfied with the big government Neocons from switching parties.

I am hoping for a split and if these Republicans become Libertarians, they can transform the Libertarian party’s agenda. This may also lure (I hope) some of the non-socialist Democrats out of the Democratic party. With a real 3rd party (33% or greater of the voters) we can finally change something.

Bring it on!!

By jbmlaw

May 23, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

Good morning all. While I endorse every word of Jim’s opinion (last paragraph in the morning essay) I fear we will see purple prose from my partisans today. There are some leftists who oppose free immigration (most the same ones who oppose free trade), but this is primarily a conservative schism.

Our conservative friends who are uncomfortable with freer immigration are not mindless racists – there are legitimate security concerns at heart of their opposition. Nevertheless those security concerns do not arise primarily from our Mexican brothers. There are legitimate welfare state “affordability” concerns at the heart of their opposition, but the jbmlaw view is that we address “affordability” issues with the legislation enabling spending.

The immigration issue – primarily a Mexican issue – is strictly an economic issue, and the economics of the issue favor freer immigration. Our friend in opposition, Southern Democrat, yesterday suggested desirability of a “North American Economic Union,” an idea in which I find much to commend and nothing to oppose.

By RCH

May 23, 2007 8:59 AM | Link to this

Jim, I tend to agree, however lets look at another minority, African Americans.A recent poll found that most African Americans have traditional conservative values;anti homosexual marriage, belief in God, etc. However these same individuals vote Democratic.Why? They vote their pocketbook.

By JC

May 23, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this

Interesting that you call this a Mexican issue jbmlaw, in light of the fact that 70% of the undocumented Latino immigrants come from countries outside of Mexico. Why does “Mexican” come up so often in this debate? Why not any of the 100s of other ethnicities and countries of origin? And you never, ever hear any of the anglo immigrant ethnicities mentioned, period. What can that be attributed to?

By JC

May 23, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this

By the way, did anyone else see the next President of the United States on Larry King Live last night?

By Rick in Lawrenceville

May 23, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this

I think the Republicans will be a much smaller party around the nation as Democrats step in with social programs for the poor and are rewarded with control of Congress and the White House for many years to come.

Those who are currently Republicans will have the opportunity to support those programs with their tax dollars.

By jbmlaw

May 23, 2007 9:06 AM | Link to this

Dear JC @ 9:00, your questions are totally valid. The answer, however, is within your question: fully 30% of our undocumented guests are Mexican. That is why the focus is on Mexicans – they are, justly or not, the proxy for all immigrants in this argument.

By Redneck Convert

May 23, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this

Well, if the Congress makes these Mexicans legal, it means the end for the good Republican party in this state. They will all line up at the voting booth to vote for people that will increase our taxes to pay for their welfare. Instead of Sonny Perdue we will have Jose Valesquez. He probly won’t even support fishing in the state. Us rednecks won’t even have a say in who runs the state no more. The state house will probly be moved to Chamblee. And it won’t be long before us rednecks are out there mowing the yards of the big houses and plucking the chickens instead of the Mexicans. We will be like the one-legged man at the butt-kicking party.

The libruls will take over and take our guns and women. I’m already keeping a close eye on the missus. We will become catholic and have to worship the Pope. They will start selling booze on Sunday and making light of good Baptists. I hope this commie getalife will be happy. They will gang up with Those People and just move in to where they want. Even up here in north Forysth county. We will stop sellabrating Christmas and start looking forward to the 5th of May every year. You probly won’t even be able to buy American beer no more. It will be all Mexican. If you have any money left after the big taxes we will pay.

I’m thru with Saxby and Johnny. They done sold us rednecks out. I’ll hold onto my beer truck job as long as I can. But it won’t be long till the Mexicans get drivers liscences and take those kind of jobs too. I got to get my riding lawn mower in shape. It might be the only kind of work I will be able to get. Pretty soon Wooten will be gone and replaced by some guy with a Mexican name and a commie outlook.

Us members of the Church of Holiness is going to meet early on Sunday to pray this bill gets defeated. Right now I’m just downhearted. Here we was, on top of the pecking order and in charge of the state, and now the bottom rail is about to go on top. They will probly have to close Ryans too.

By RCH

May 23, 2007 9:13 AM | Link to this

JC andjbmlaw That is an interesting question do not hear or see other ethnic groups such as Indians ,Koreans, Asians, White Europeans, or Africans involved in this debate. Is it maybe these groups tend to come here legally? I assume it must be harder to come via plane or boat than walk across the border.

By RepublicanBaseman

May 23, 2007 9:14 AM | Link to this

Tragic isn’t it Rick in Lawrenceville? I’d much rather support death and destruction all over the world, pre-emptive wars, prop up dictators and continue to support that poor and needy Saudi royal family. Defense contractors need a helping hand as well. They have not even been able to make ends meet with those contracts in Iraq. We should finance alot more waste fraud and abuse to help these poor guys pull themselves up by their bootstraps. These are such worthy causes. In fact I think we should borrow more money from the Chinese communist government to finance more of that type program. All the others are such a monumental waste, don’t you think Rick?

By Oliver

May 23, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this

The illegals come from those groups too RCH. You need to be better informed.

By RCH

May 23, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this

Oliver That is not the question.It seems that percentage wise this group tend to be a lot lower. Is it maybe they tend to use the system better to get visa’s etc.

By abc

May 23, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this

I don’t think it’s necessarily an issue of which party benefits. I think it’s more an issue of advancing an agenda that brings about a North American Union, guarding against collapse of the dollar, leading to introduction of the Amero. Would all that result in the demise of the Republican party? Oh, I don’t know… long time since we’ve had a revolution, though.

By harold

May 23, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

the biggest winners will be the child molesting catholic preachers! just think.. millions of young catholic boys with WAY too much machimso in their blood to report being molestered like lemond

By Rick in Lawrenceville

May 23, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this

RepublicanBaseman: I’m not Republican nor do I support the actions you stated.

I do however, think that our country is growing faster than the infrastructure (roads, water, electricity, food supply, schools, hospitals, etc.) can support.

I am against illegal immigration since it takes away any control we have over the population of our country.

Glad to know that you aren’t sitting in the metro Atlanta traffic.

By Harold

May 23, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this

Larry King Live is a convicted criminal with alleged links to the Kennedy assassination.

It is little wonder the President is in league with him.

http://www.mugshots.org/hollywood/larry-king.html

By RCH

May 23, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

Rick You make a good point.Look at our schools.When I was growing up I never had classes in trailers.

By Brad Edmondson

May 23, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this

Do illegals hurt the economy? No. Providing public education for children of illegal aliens costs 3.1 billion. according to the Urban institute. Illegal aliens in prison cost 471 million a year and they consume about 445 million more in Medicaid funds. These costs are offset by 1.9 billion in taxes paid by illegals and untold billions in consumer spending. Impoverished field workers from Mexico get all the attention, but the INS estimates that only 31 percent of illegal aliens are Mexican. And of the 1.7 million illegal workers that applied for citizenship last year less than 4% were in farming, fishing, or forestry. In contrast over 4% were executives, managers, or professionals. 21% held service jobs, 24% were operators, fabricators, or laborers.

By Dave

May 23, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this

On the issue of illegal immigrants. I will always support legal immigration, its how my mom was able to come here. But the problem is the illegal part.

Its not a problem with their education, culture, race, politics, or employment, its a problem with their refusal to integrate into our society. To be an American citizen you must speak, read and write English. Its essential for communication. Its communication which enables our society to function.

Bush should be impeached because of his selective refusal to enforce existing immigration law. With the Democrats hating him and the Republicans fed up with especially this issue, we can throw him out and make an example of him. Do your job or we will throw you out!!

By Don

May 23, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

What is your point RCH. Most of that is the result of all the new subdivisions that have been built to accomodate native born transplants. You don’t make much sense RCH. If you have problems with that why don’t you see if you can get them deported.

By D

May 23, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

if you think the republicans are against illegal immigration you are an idiot, they are little w******* big business who is truly driving this uncontrolled immigration that is intended to replace American workers. plus latinos are mostly religious and are against abortion, that is overly important to republicans also. I heard so much about why people said they loved the republican party in 2000 and after, one of the main things was those damn liberals are behind all the entitlement programs, so tell me, just what entitlement programs have the republicans gone after and eliminated? if I had voted for republicans and wound up getting so duped by them, I would be mad as hell, but not the republican base, they just more strongly try to invalidate anyone else that doesn’t agree with them. the word liberal is a good examle in how it has been turned into a 4 letter word. people, look up the definition of liberal and conservative in the dictionary. liberal is not a bad word, but it has been turned into one for selfish manipulative and hateful reasons. conservative means, that’s the way we’ve always done it, do we really want the status quo? not me, I’m tired of washington not acting in the publics interest, that goes for dems and reps. we need to stop voting along party lines and try to elect real people for congress and the presidency. the dumbest thing is that I tried to tell everyone if you vote for two big oil guys to be in the white house, gas prices are going to skyrocket, oh no they’re not they said, and then quickly tried to demean me by calling me a liberal, which I’m not, I don’t like politicans and I am a centrist and an independent, but if you don’t totally and blindly agree with the gop, then the name calling will start, that’s not America and that’s not freedom. and there is nothing more shameful than to use children, the flag and God for selfish and manipulative reasons. dubai ports deal? what does that have to do with patriotism? this stupid war, what does that have to do with God? high gas prices hurting families, what does that have to do with helping children? most people are just too weak to stand to stand on their own and think for themselves. and are too scared and weak to call themselves a democrat too because to the invalidation heaped on them by the gop, their favorite manipulative cut-downs are wimp, fool, nut, traitor. any side that has to stoop to that type of behavior is evil. most people hide in the gop, they want to look like they are on the winning side, but debate a republican about most things and they usually don’t know the issues, and when they do know a little about issues, they spout off the same propaganda like a recording. that’s scary. both parties have gotten us into this mess and a drastic change is needed, things like get rid of the electoral college, so that one vote CAN count, so that free thinking of individuals can once again be promoted. but the evil I see today, mostly comes from the people who say they are on God’s side. but what I seen recently is, atheists live as better christians than christians. religion should never be a smokescreen to hide behind or some type of diplomatic immunity for negative behavior. stop letting these crooked politicians so easily coerce you, and remember if someone has to go around bragging a lot about how great a patriot they are or how devout a christian they are, they probably have done very little for their country, maybe an American flag bumper sticker on their car, and they probably are using religion as a shield for their corruption, gay sex, pedophilia, etc. as we have seen by all this people who claim to be Jesus’s right hand man. for example, george bush is in a lot of trouble come judgement day, the Lord is waiting with a long list of things george said he was doing in God’s name, but God doesn’t work for Halliburton or KBR.

By harold

May 23, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

harold says the poor states are the republican states. the high income states are the liberal states. illegal mexicans are good for the republicans. the republicans are pushing for mexicans to be americans because teh republicans know their voters are poor and stupid. they think their votes are lottery tickets and if they vote R enough that they will strike it rich. no, they will just stay poor and stupid. harold thinks the more they vote republican actually the stupider they get.

By Jackson

May 23, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

Ron Paul.

By RCH

May 23, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

Don After speaking with a few city planners, I found that not to be the case. The models that project growth in areas had one serious flaw;the influx of illegal aliens. As Rick stated, if you can control the influx you can better prepare for it.

By Patricia

May 23, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

By Dave Its not a problem with their education, culture, race, politics, or employment, its a problem with their refusal to integrate into our society. To be an American citizen you must speak, read and write English. Its essential for communication. Its communication which enables our society to function.

Dave, could it be that we “ugly Americans” shot our own selves in the foot years ago with the arrogant attitude that we didn’t need to learn foreign languages to compete in a changing world? Why is it that the rest of the world is that far ahead of us when it comes to bi-lingual and multi-lingual capability? May 23, 2007 9:45 AM |

By Bush is a pandering leftist coward

May 23, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

Once again the despicably dishonest leftist scum on here puke up their vile pandering to illegals lies and distortions!! THE REASON WHY the never ending INFESTATION OF ILLEGAL MEXICAN TYPES dominates the discussion is BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS to all but dissembling leftist halfwits!!

It was/is mexican types who sickeningly demand all kinds of rights/tax payer benefits in overwhelmingly mexican flag waving demonstrations sponsored by the likes of racist La Raza hate radio. It is ONLY your mexican types who oilily and noisily threaten anti-gringo boycotts.

Mexicans have already puked up over the border over 10% of their ENTIRE POPULATION … this is a mexican invasion!!! Funny how the lefties and illegal apologists always forget this!! Along with massive illegal crime, the drugs, the violence, THE WIDE REFUSAL TO LEARN/SPEAK English, the free loading massive swamping of schools and hospitals, the systematic fraud by mexicans and mexican types perpetrated against many millions of Americans of all colours… ID theft, SS# fraud etc, the huge illegal fraud in Kalifornia which has hammered state funded programmes and on and on.

Illegal pakis/indians/afriKans/orientals/canadians and others mostly have the grace and sense not to use arrogant reconquistador bigotry to (at least eagerly try and) bite the hand that feeds them.

Around 30K mexican type thuggish gangbangers will be eligible for a ‘z’ visa, if they simply renounce gang violence. The coward Bush and the senate leftists have cynically removed the earlier previous minimum sanction of illegals paying back all back taxes before amnesty gives them citizenship.

Mexicans are mostly poorly educated - and mostly labourers - some are semi skilled, as their backward corrupt country legally only has to educate them to age 14. This will impose further massive leeching off US taxpayers as we have to pay Mexico’s gargantuan welfare bills. And all this completely ignores the looming 20 year or so down the road illegals rape of SS and Medicare etc. PLus the other 20 million or so equally poorly educated illegals’ family members who will just be let in.

Nice to see the linguine spined GA senators are now “with holding support” for this poisonous immigration bill. Isakson and Chambliss wont ever get our votes again - our 2 votes are hardly crucial but if a non pandering GOPer stands against in the primaries them we’ll support them for sure. Hopefully many other folks will not forget this sell out and treat these two GOP surrender monkeys the same. Chambliss and Isakson need to unreservedly apologise to the folks of GA and all Americans. Obviously the leftist scum in the senate will NEVER admit this was deliberate national suicide.

At least 40 million mexican types will be allowed to come/stay here in the next couple of decades and be eligible for all kinds of taxpayer benefits. ENFORCEMENT targeting those who refuse to pay any INS $5000 penalty fines will not occur, so few of those who refuse to pay and play will never be deported. Massive document fraud already occurs - telling illegals to simply show proof that they were here/working before Jan 1 2007 is a sick and pathetic joke!!!

START TO ROUND THEM ALL UP AND SEND THEM HOME NOW!!!

Deny all anchor babies citizenship retrospectively!!

AND IMPRISON ILLEGAL EXPLOITING EMPLOYERS for at least six months …

This will swiftly work like magic!!!

By Jack

May 23, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this

Someone pleae explain how the BBC announced the WTC 7 collapsed 20 minutes before it actually did? How? It had to be a conspiracy and it was leaked to the BBC earlier than it should have.

By D

May 23, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

there are so many illegals here that now the illegal community needs more illegals to support their little country within a country. more illegals to work at the supermercado, more illegals to pick vegatables and fruit for the illegal community to eat, more illegals to build houses for the large illegal community to live in. a please don’t be an idiot and support this “Fare” tax stupidity, that mostly benefits the rich and illegals, all the money made here, sent out of the country by illegals will never taxed, that’s stupid, we’ve supported these law breakers long enough, and what do we receive in return, contempt, racism for the latino community towards gringos and pinche juelos, and much of our tax dollars spent on them instead of Americans.

By Don

May 23, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

Specifically, RCH, which city managers have you been speaking with? Because it damn sure isn’t illegals buying the thousands of McMansions here in Cobb County that has caused the proliferation of trailers in this county. RCH, you don’t ever get real specific about anything. You try to sound informed but when it comes right down to it you are trying to foist opinion on the rest of us and pass it off as if you have your finger on the pulse of this immigration issue. You don’t.

By Libertarian

May 23, 2007 10:15 AM | Link to this

Simple solution to big government is to vote Libertarian. www.lp.org

By RCH

May 23, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

Folks I,m sick and tired of not being able to get my point across to all you Mexican loving enablers. If it were’nt for real Americans like me this country would be overrun with all these little brown maggots and there would be no room left for righteous white people like me. I hate all of them. Especially the Mexicans. Now I’ve said it. If any of you Mexican loving scum don’t like it, do something about it.

By WTF

May 23, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

RCH - The belief in God is not reserved for those of “traditional conservative values.” There are many liberals who believe in God as much as conservatives do and who base their liberal beliefs on their interpretation of the teachings of Christ.

By getalife

May 23, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

Now that the dems are the gop, they will get amnesty.

Deal with it.

By RCH

May 23, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

* Don* Specificaly Gwinette,and Dekalb County.I am sure for every Mansion that is built which may have 2 0r 3 children, an apartment dwelling is built that holds a hundred children. Certainly you cannot argue that these children of illegal immigrants have no impact .

By FactOftheMatter

May 23, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

To quote a letter writer to the AJC who is certainly informed on immigration matters:

“Just a couple of facts: According to the Social Security Administration, undocumented people last year paid more than $5 billion to the SSA, money that goes directly into their coffers. Does that cover some services used by the new immigrants? According to the Pew Center for Social Studies, more than 65% of undocumented immigrants pay taxes, without the chance of refunds. Shouldn’t that cover their children’s studies?” End of quote.

By Bush is a pandering leftist coward

May 23, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this

this poisonous suicidal immigration bill has an unprecedented leeching provision buried on page 317 that will enrage all decent Americans

http://www.swnebr.net/newspaper/cgi-bin/articles/articlearchiver.pl?160813

By Curious Observer

May 23, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this

The entire issue of illegal immigration arises from only one inescapable fact: the desire of employers to maximize profit by hiring workers for wages that often don’t conform to wage and hour laws nor Social Security and Medicare withholding and matching requirements. If there were no jobs for illegal immigrants, they wouldn’t come here.

So who, besides the illegal workers and their family contacts, wants a temporary guest worker program and visas for these currently illegal workers? It is largely their employers, who now readily hold down the standard of living for legal workers in the lower wage classes and want to flood the labor market legally with desperate workers who will take practically any job for any wages. Of course, the Democrats are also making cynical calculations about the political benefits of legalizing the illegals.

It is these employers whom Saxby Chambliss and Johnny Isakson are representing, not the legal workers who have been stupid enough to vote for them. If you don’t know it by now, then know that the Republicans are the party of the employer, not employees. That fact remains, although Republican candidates will wave red flags like abortion, homosexual marriage, and other issues to attract your support.

Don’t buy the line that “there are some jobs American workers won’t do.” The truth is that wages drive the job market. But instead of raising wages (and consequently prices) sufficiently to attract legal workers to these jobs, many employers choose to cheat ethical competitors and the taxpayers by knowingly breaking the law.

And now the entire country finds itself in a position of having to act on the problems created by the presence of 12-20 million illegal aliens. These problems did not spring up from the earth like so many mythical dragons’ teeth. They came from the greed and law-avoidance of the employers of these aliens. How strange that conservatives will use law-and-order as a mantra in other cases and yet will accept the massive law-breaking of employers as merely an economic state of nature! The rest of us, not the employers, will bear the massive burdens associated with legalizing an illegal practice.

By Dave

May 23, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

Patricia I learned a foreign language enough to understand some of it. But how many foreign languages does the high schooler need to learn? Most Europeans and Africans know 3-5 different languages. Its a lofty goal and I’d be willing to learn a couple more, but our education system cannot handle it.

If we had a halfway competent education system it might be possible for every high schooler to learn 2 more languages (Spanish and Arabic would be best IMHO) but is that reasonable?

The simplest solution is to encourage those who are willing to go the extra mile to be here to learn English, its really a great idea for them since its how business and intellectuals are able to communicate in this country.

I think our native born Americans are too concerned about pop culture and popularity than education. Ask any teenager if they would be willing to learn 2-3 more languages?

By harold

May 23, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

Most folks in the UK know Spanish. Why shouldn’t we?

By Don

May 23, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

Of course they do RCH, but you seem to conveniently leave out the other demographic factors that contribute to it as well. Maybe you should contact these city planners and ask them why they have planned so poorly instead of using cherry picked info to back up your opinions.

By RCH

May 23, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

Factof the matter I will accept this number for argument’s sake. However it is estimated that the 12 million illegals will cost the SSA 2.5 Trillion over the next 20 years, according to you numbers after only contributing 100 billion. Who will pay the difference?

By kitty

May 23, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

Who in this country does it benefit NOT to deport all illegal aliens (best we can), and close the gate. Why can’t these people be required to show proof of citizenship when asked? You know people, within the next decade or so, someone is going to be throwing us oatmeal from airplanes. And… what the heck are we doing in Iraq? Bin Laden was from Afghanistan! How long will the silent majority remain silent?

By D

May 23, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

don’t know if the actually allowed 911 on purpose, that seems a little out there. but government had info. on this and in typical government and corporate fashion, sat on the info., didn’t pass it along, portrayed those who tried to push along the info as chicken littles that were just rocking the boat. but is totally sickening is how this happened 8 months after this administration was in office and they so horribly have tried to blame others, like the previous administration. the previous administration could’ve done more, but when you come to power saying we are going to correct all the mistakes of these horrible liberal clinton people, than you need to do it! that makes Bush and his administration responsible for 911. two scenarios to help someone understand this: 1- if you are hired by a company to head dept., basically because the fired the last guy because they thought he wasn’t doing a good job and were looking for someone to improve the situation and correct mistakes, then 8 months down the road when something f’s up, and your big voss comes and asks what happened, how many people believe that the big boss is going to except the excuse, well it was the last managers fault? no he’ll say, but isn’t that why we hired you? that’s a quick way to get fired, but no, people have bought into that lame excuse. 2- if you are on guard duty, and on guard duty for a while, and terrorists come through your sector and blow something up, when the general comes along and asks what happened? he’s not going to except the excuse, well the last guard before me forgot to check that the gate was locked. nope, you’re on guard duty, you are responsible, and instead of the way this administration says they except full responsiblitity just to fool the simpletons as they have been very good at by passing themselves off as a stand-up guy. that’s when you actually act like a stand up guy and take responsiblitity for it, you don’t blame someone else like an undisciplined spoiled teenager would. if you say you are going to do a better job, do it! if it happens on your watch, it’s your fault! and to look to dishonorably shame someone else for your screw up, that is neither a christian or a good person.

By Bush is a pandering leftist coward

May 23, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this

Most folks in the UK know Spanish

HA HA HA HA HA HA

only from Hollywood westerns!!

vamoose muchachos … see you at the cantina amigo…

the illegal panderer harold abjectly lies again!!! The UK language provision in schools is actually spread very thin. french, spanish and german plus some latin and russian were the main, but hardly the only options when I was at school. nowadays its mainly W. EU languages, frogspeak and paellabullfighting speak are just two of the languages taught. Happily most Brits still dont fluently speak a foreign language - we just speak English PROPERLY!! (except for the pandering liberal multi-cultural “estuary English” morons who even butcher English)

By RCH

May 23, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

The post of RCH at 10;16am is not me. Don. That is the point.By planning legal immigration you will bypass all these economic problems.Make sense?

By FactoftheMatter

May 23, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

By RCH

May 23, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

Factof the matter I will accept this number for argument’s sake. However it is estimated that the 12 million illegals will cost the SSA 2.5 Trillion over the next 20 years, according to you numbers after only contributing 100 billion. Who will pay the difference?

Estimated by who RCH? Could that be just the cost without factoring in what is going in? Sounds highly suspect. Something seems to be left out. And obviously you are forgetting that should they become legal, this entire argument goes away because of the revenue increase on top of what already goes in to the SSA cofers. RCH they are alot cheaper legal than illegal. And they will contribute alot more legal than illegal. There really is no argument to that. Just the access to higher education as a legal makes alot of the economic issue go away through upward mobility. Maybe that is really what scares you so badly. An increasingly educated, upwardly mobil brown middle class.

By deegee

May 23, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

Here is the link to an article posted yesterday that references Wooten’s topic du jour.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18787633/

What is noteworthy is that there is nothing in the article to suggest that legalizing unskilled and semi-skilled workers is going to bankrupt the US Treasury. This is a scare tactic used by the anti-immigrant lobby.

If the present bill is signed into law the effect at the polls won’t be seen for at least 13 years as it will take at least 8 years for those effected to become permanent residents. Then it takes 5 years after that to become a citizen and vote. What is troubling to Republicans is that they have lost the PR campaign on this issue and rightfully so. New Latino voters that might otherwise be drawn to Republican ideology will vote Democratic. Additionally, Latinos will not choose to locate in Red areas, thereby diluting their strength because the atmosphere is too oppressive. Latinos are concentrated in the large states of Texas, California and Florida and the electoral votes are pivotal to an election.

If the Republican party would pull their heads out of their ideological butts and move forward in the 21st century then it might not be too late to as Steve King predicted, “collapse”.

By Celine

May 23, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

By kitty

May 23, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

Who in this country does it benefit NOT to deport all illegal aliens (best we can), and close the gate. Why can’t these people be required to show proof of citizenship when asked? You know people, within the next decade or so, someone is going to be throwing us oatmeal from airplanes. And… what the heck are we doing in Iraq? Bin Laden was from Afghanistan! How long will the silent majority remain silent?

What are you talking about here Kitty? The silent majority spoke very loudly in 06. In fact, they roared. If you are still under the impression that that tag still belongs to the right wing of the republican party you are a little out of the loop. They are practically dead and heading for extinction.

By Patricia

May 23, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

Too many Americans are still under the delusion that we are still the center of the economic, financial, and business universe. We are not. The global economy makes us just another player. Can you say China? This is the same mentality that caused us to be behind the power curve with the foreign language capability needed to compete now and in the future. You obstructionists and holdouts need to get your heads out of your rears and understand that we now need the rest of the world alot more than they need us. And that is only going to become more true as time goes by.

By RCH

May 23, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

Factofthe matter I went through this yesterday.Robert Richter who has advised several of the last presidents on poverty and economics. You must also not have researched this bill carefully. Many of these people will be eligible within 5 years. It will be impossible for them to contribute even close to what they will receive. That is why this bill is flawed,along with many other provisions. I want a bill that makes sense and is enforceable. And also, please don’t throw the race card. Illegal has no colour. I am in the computer industry. Brown(Indian) is my favorite colour!

By rarringt

May 23, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

Good morning all,

First, as a follow up to Jim’s previous blog about a second airport, there were more than a few folks talking about how horribly run and corrupt the airport was. I’d encourage you to look at today’s story at the AJC where passengers nationwide were polled. Turns out, our airport was the runner-up for best facility in the country.

Contrary to some belief, although not perfect, the City of Atlanta is not quite the mess many make it out to be.

Back to topic. FactoftheMatter, interesting statistics. I’d love to see your source.

As I wrote previously, we have developed a culture that is more or less dependent on the cheap labor force provided by illegal latino immigration. Much talk will be made, but little will be done because businesses large and small and consumers are not willing to absorb the cost increases associated with eliminating that pool.

Illegals may not pay into social security, but they subsidize our costs. I’ll leave it my economist friend jbmlaw to explain the phenomena of indirect contribution of deflating costs while contributing to the economic and tax base through consumption (they shop at Kroger and Wal Mart, too).

As far as political impact, I see them as staunchly purple. They’ve watched the experience of African-Americans and understand the folly of being beholden to one party.

They’ve also watched the actions of the GOP and understand that just because a person screams “Praise Jesus” at the top of their lungs doesn’t necessarily mean they understand anything about Christian, or even merely moral, values.

Besides, they’ve watched the GOP’s treatment of African-Americans in that regard as well. They know that while there are some decent GOPers out there, the “big umbrella” shelters many of the most intolerant idealogues in the country.

In short, it’s a toss up. They know their political influence grows by the day, and that soon, anyone who aspires to any office greater than dogcatcher will have to address their issues.

You can give up any notion of gradualism left over from the last civil rights movement. They’ve contributed to our economy for decades, and are gonna want their rights, right now. I’m not particularly bothered by that.

By FactoftheMatter

May 23, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

So tell us what your point is RCH. Eligible for what in 5 years. Give us something specific. And what is your point with the Indians? So you love Indians but hate Mexicans. What is your point?

By FactoftheMatter

May 23, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

By rarringt

May 23, 2007 11:16 AM |

Back to topic. FactoftheMatter, interesting statistics. I’d love to see your source.

rarringt, I believe I did state my sources. The Social Security Administration and the Pew Institute for Social Studies.

By RCH

May 23, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

Fact of the Matter You are forgetting, SS payments are not just for individuals that are retiring. They can be made to spouses of deceased bread winners, injury etc. My point is that they are both brown. Many people like you try to make this a racial issue. Its not. You said I ” hate Mexicans” but as statics show may of the Hispanic illegals are not from Mexico but from other Latin American countries.

By D

May 23, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

we must close the borders and ports with troops. they don’t need to be in iraq working so hard and dying for those ungrateful disorganized people. besides sometimes the best thing to establish a strong new country is a good ol fashioned slugging match like a civil war. i see our threats in this order latin and south america china pakistan iran syria al qaeda saudi arabia and somewhere in this list big oil needs to be inserted that’s right i put the threat south of our border above all other threats. there is a little talked about horrible vietnam with advisors type war going on in columbia that is truly hurting this country, chavez the guy in bolivia , not to mention our biggest enemy mexico, look in history to see that mexico was close to joining the other side against us in world war I and world warII, just if we had started to slip and they thought the axis had a chance they would’ve thrown in their hat, to get back all the territory that they say is theirs that they sold to us. this is bad stuff secure the borders ports and immigration, stop meddling in their countries and lives and do anything and everything we can for alternative fuels to get away from oil, even nuclear energy. stop out sourcing jobs and punish anyone that hires an illegal and permanently deported anybody that is illegal and cheats the tax system. and the same benefits package for all americans. with health care guaranteed for all americans, call it socialism if you want to try and scare somebody, but before we send money anywhere else, we should be taking care of our own. big business and politicians have created this problem and not just one side of the politicans, but all sides. that’s why we have to stop letting us fight amongst ourselves and not focus on them by using attack words like liberal elitist ideologue to break us up. no matter who you are, if you are an american we should all be in one single line having a stare down contest with our government. close the southern border, move army air force and marine base from central u.s. as needed and relocate these bases on the border. make cops arrest and deport illegals they stop. but stop letting them scare us with boogeymen like drugs terrorism religion or whatever, we need to focus on the collective failure of congress and other elected officials, as they have collectively screwed us, we should stand together collectively as americans, not stupid republicans or stupid democrats, and demand fair and logical treatment for ourselves as american citizens. stop letting them divide us our things we don’t need to worry about like terri schiavo, flag burning, abortion, gay marriage, all of those things can wait, if we don’t have a country to save anyway those things won’t matter anyway. we’ve got to priortize, immigration and healthcare are right at the top of list.

By Dennis

May 23, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

Mr. Wooten writes, “, I’m the optimist. Hispanics, by and large, work hard and work up. They are family-oriented and should be drawn to a party that encourages self-reliance, personal responsibility and free enterprise.”

And Americans are not?

Mr. Wooten’s statement is hypocracy at its best; if a Democrat made that statement, Mr. Wooten would be shouting, “You hate America, don’t you?”

You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.

By FactoftheMatter

May 23, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

RCH, again what is your point? So what if surviving spouses, whatever are eligible? You are still cherry picking tidbits of the whole. Your SS argument amounts to the proverbial flea on the elephants posterior. Your antipathy toward Mexicans is pretty well documented RCH, and I would challenge you to research how many illegal Indians there are here as a result of among other things, overstaying tourist visas and H1B visa. A large percentage of the extended Indian families that are illegally here are those that came here as tourist and intentionally never left. But RCH, I really don’t care about that. I welcome them just as I welcome all of the immigrants that want to be here to include all of the multitudes of ethnicities that are soon to be LEGAL residents of this country. And RCH, I hope that eventually you will get over that chapped a$s that the Mexicans seem to have caused you. In closing I only have one more thing to say. Si Se Puede! Have a nice day RCH.

By Ronnie

May 23, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this

we need to close off the border completely right now

when we do you will see how enraged and violent the latinos become then their true intentions will be known

after sealing the border start enforcing all laws equally to everyone in the country

then when the right thing is done and the fair thing is done will come the latino riots not marches then we will see them burning our flags not just using our flags as tools of manipulatin for their self-centered cause

By AM

May 23, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

The losers will be the American Citizens who obey the law. Over 80% of the legal Americans are strongly opposed to this new piece of SH#T bill. I guess big business and LAWBREAKING illegals will be the winners. However, if our Senator vote for this SH#T, they will be losers in the next election!!

By jbmlaw

May 23, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

Dear rarringt @ 11:16, great post. I suppose we should be distressed – you, Southern Democrat, DebbieDoRight, Amelia, Jim Wooten, and I all seem to be on approximately the same page on this issue. Sure sign of the apocalypse.

By @@

May 23, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

‘Ya know Jim, I’ve always admired Bill Richardson in spite of some of his political views and because I thought he was above the fray when it came to divisive politics.

“I am saying ‘It’s Bill Richardson Lopez and I am one of you and I would like you to consider me, not because I am Hispanic but because I have the best program for the country’,”

I have to ask you…am I the only one who sees that “but-t” in ^^^ there?

Jim, I regret that I must plug this “but-t” message from Bill.

By deegee

May 23, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Here are some statistics concerning the SSA Earnings Suspense File and the link to the entire article.

“The ESF has become a hotbed for debate over everything from immigration rights to identity theft, as it continues to accrue money at roughly $6 billion a year, with the total as of 2005 sitting at $519 billion.”

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/02/sssecretstash.html

There is no logical argument based on official government stats to support the notion that legalizing unskilled and semi-skilled workers is going to cause economic chaos in social security. The numbers seem to show the contrary. Every retiree that is now drawing a social security check should thank a member of the workforce, legal or illegal. Those of us that are retiring 15 years from now will be screwed if we don’t do something now to enlarge the pool of workers contributing to Social Security.

By WritingsOntheWall

May 23, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

All of the anti-immigrant handwringing going on here by some of you and the obvious glee on the part of those that love to antagonize you is really kind of time wasted is it not. Everyone on this blog knows that a bill will be passed and every undocumented immigrant here is going to be legal. 12 million people just aren’t going to be deported. You might as well deal with that fact now as opposed to later before you expend any more of your misguided anti-immigration fury. I for one am enjoying and going to enjoy even more the discomfiture of you obstructionist anti, the day that this bill is passed. In fact I think I will go to the No Mas Cantina and celebrate with all of the beautiful Latinas that will surely be in attendance. Should be one major Fiesta! Si Se Puede!

By Pinche Gringo

May 23, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

go take ya a tour of some neighborhoods in Gainesville or go to the hall county health dept. and just take a look at all of the ‘hard’ working latinos! f-ing moochers! but to be real, if you set up a system like we have in place to help these law breakers. why wouldn’t somebody want to jump on board the gravy train. our elected officials have let us down.

By Jackie

May 23, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

Closing the borders are only part of the problem. It is estimated that 40% of illegal immigrants are not Hispanic. We must devise a solution that will give lawful control of those who wish to come to this country, yet provide a means for those who want to come and we have the basic infrastructure to support their physical presence. Everyone who comes to this country should not have a degree. Many come to get education.

By catlady

May 23, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

What did we do before the influx of illegal immigrants? How did we get by? Could we not return to those ways? Who benefits from not returning to those ways, besides the immigrant? Someone answer.

By Amelia

May 23, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

By jbmlaw

May 23, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

Dear rarringt @ 11:16, great post. I suppose we should be distressed – you, Southern Democrat, DebbieDoRight, Amelia, Jim Wooten, and I all seem to be on approximately the same page on this issue. Sure sign of the apocalypse.

jbmlaw, I am really starting to like you! And yes there will be an apocolypse. In the minds of all the antis out there. And I can’t think of a more deserving bunch of….well you know the words.

By Uncle Sam

May 23, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

si se puede kiss my butt fuera todo latinos!

By RCH

May 23, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

“Factof the matter** Again nothing but rhetoric. When that beloved “illegal alien” steals your identity making you responsible for cleaning up your credit, or serves you your food while passing on some disease because they were not immunized, or even kills you knowing that they can run back across the border without the fear of being brought to justice (after committing numerous crimes and not being deported. Not to mention the tax burden you will have to pay;if you even pay taxes,we will talk again.

By rarringt

May 23, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

Catlady,

Before illegal immigrants, African Americans working for Jim Crow wages. Before that, slavery. Before that, peasant europeans working (in Europe) for 16th century Jim Crow wages. Etc.

The notion of an industrious, “by their bootstraps” society is accurate if describing how Americans like to view themselves. The reality is we, like most other societies, have always relied on a lower class to do most of the dirty work.

By Alan Greenspan

May 23, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

By catlady

May 23, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

What did we do before the influx of illegal immigrants? How did we get by? Could we not return to those ways? Who benefits from not returning to those ways, besides the immigrant? Someone answer

This economy catlady! That’s what! Take some economic courses how about it.

By rarringt

May 23, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

RCH,

Ironic that you accuse another of rhetoric. But I’m glad to see that you’ll refuse to patronize restaurants that hire illegals for health concerns, and will wall your McMansion (build by illegals) to protect against the flood of violent criminals heading your way.

Because, after all, they’re not coming for work, they want to ravish your wife and ransom the little RCHettes.

Que malo!

By D

May 23, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this

actually the real question is ‘why do we even need immigration?’. some limited cases sure, but we have enough people here right now to have a good country. we need to improve education for americans to fill any job gaps, all americans should have a college education with plenty of help from our government. we wouldn’t have to spend any more money that we have to spend now, we just stop giving our money to others that don’t deserve it and even treat us with contempt after we are good to them. use our money on us. but we don’t need immigration, previously my immigrant relatives needed to immigrate to take the land away from my native american relatives, but that’s done now, so it seems the only reason we would need immigration again, is to take the land away from somebody else as before. the house is full, we don’t need any more roommates. especially mooching, whining couch dwelling type roommates that say they do everything for us and we do nothing for them. sure those type of roommates will work but only when the money is only being spent on themselves.

By LMAO

May 23, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

By RCH

May 23, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

“Factof the matter** Again nothing but rhetoric. When that beloved “illegal alien” steals your identity making you responsible for cleaning up your credit, or serves you your food while passing on some disease because they were not immunized, or even kills you knowing that they can run back across the border without the fear of being brought to justice (after committing numerous crimes and not being deported. Not to mention the tax burden you will have to pay;if you even pay taxes,we will talk again.

You have really run out of argument now moron. Now you sound like all the chicken littles that see Osama Bin Laden behind every bush. But RCH should that happen, I hope it is you that he targets. Bigoted and pompous as%ses like you deserve all that can be dished to you. Enjoy all of the new LEGAL Mexicans that are going to pass you by jackas#s. LMAO!!!

By rarringt

May 23, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

D,

Interesting perspective. I would respectfully submit that anything that is not growing is dying.

However, care should be taking with the gardening. To wit, immigration is good and necessary, but should be pursued in an intelligent, realistic, fair and equitable manner.

This is, after all, a nation largely comprised of immigrants. It’s one of the things that makes America what it is (or at least, should be). That doesn’t stop because you’re here and now think the gates should be closed behind whichever one of your relatives moved over here.

By RCHwhineandmoan

May 23, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

WAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! Somebody give that squalling baby RCH his blankee and pacifier.

By RCH

May 23, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

rringt Lets be real. These are problems associated with illegal immigration. It is under the Constitution the responsibility of the govt. to protect us. Why are they not doing their job but turning a blind eye to the problem. As Jackie,myself and many have stated all we want is lawful control of those who let into this country. Many others just want to take the easy way out and not act responsibly. Remember the great wave of immigrants that came to the United States under the Carter administration under the guise of political asylum. Yes many good and honest people came. However Fidel Castro also emptied all the prisons of their criminal element and mental institutions and sent them along. Is this what you want? Then maybe you and Fact of the matter can invite them to live in your neighborhood!

By FIESTA TIME

May 23, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

I can’t wait. All the parties when the bill is signed. Can’t you just hear the chanting now RCH. LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL! But count your blessings RCH. At least you won’t have to hear SI SE PUDE SI,SE PUEDE anymore. ROFL!

By D

May 23, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

ah yes, the race card, for standing up for your own country and your own hard earned rights, a racist, a bigot. let americans do the same thing to the countries of illegal immigrants, and guess what, they wouldn’t like it either, but oh, that’s different, you stinking racists. and to say something like all latinos are hard working is bs, just like saying all black people are lazy, that is total bs too. both blanket statements could be seen as racist and reverse racist, funny how reverse has to be used when it happens only to white people, seems to me, racism is just plain racism no matter how you try to dress it. and to cheat others and take something that is not yours then when the victims complain you call them racists and bigots, that right there is the true definition of racism.

By Chin

May 23, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

good point! why do we need more people here. so we can be more like China. so we can a population problem. to force parents to have one child. seems like we have enough people now. have ya seen the traffic lately?

By LatinoComputerGangBanger

May 23, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

Hey RCH, mi amigo, I can steal your worthless identity, your over the limit credit card numbers, and get that $1.27 that you call a savings account just as easily staying illegal as I can AFTER I am legal. Again what is your point.

By deegee

May 23, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

AM, it appears that you are getting your polling data from FairUS. Here is a link to a wide spectrum of poll data. Polls include CNN, Fox, CBS, WSJ, etc. If you look carefully you will see that FAIRUS is way out of the mainstream.

http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm

By RCH

May 23, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

D The other day I heard two African Americans yell at a Hispanic “to go back to where he came from”. I had to laugh because that is what whites said to them. I wounder what minority the Hispanics will yell that at in 20 or 30 yrs.? I guess we will all be racists!

By lucky

May 23, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

This legislation is a disaster and designed as a taxpayer subsidy to the Mexican government and a few business owners here. The impact on schools, hospitals, neighborhoods, blue collar wages, our neighborhoods and the future of our social services system.

We do not need illiterate and uneducated people who have children they know they cannot afford. And their government pushes them off on us while they help themselves through corruption to the rich natural resources and our elected help themselves by payoffs to allow this to occur. Of course, those who benefit do not live with and among those who continue to live third world ways while disrespecting our laws and our codes.

Jeffrey Damler was a hard worker - so what? Driving drunk, creating children they cannot pay for and ignoring our laws and customs does not justify a hard working pine straw spreader.

What will happen to the next generation who will really be saddled with the costs of this greed?

Yes, the Republicans will suffer a loss at the polls in the future if citizenship is granted to lawbreakers. But do those foolish Democrats actually think they will fare any better? Take a look out west - unless your are Hispanic you are not elected.

By time for the truth

May 23, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

my wittle pee-pee huwts. i tink i played wif it to much

By D

May 23, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

melting pot, land of immigrants, that’s the past. times change, what was needed ans important 100 or so years ago isn’t automatically needed just because we did it for the present or future. we asked for immigrants so that to steal the land from the Native Americans by being squatters. I’m an American, I’m not proud of how we took this country, I’m not proud of slavery, or other things like that, but immigration was needed to settle the land, that’s how you win a war and totally subdue the inhabitants. one reason why the war in Iraq won’t work, we’re not settling it as we are winning the ground. the melting pot is what has made us great, but does it have no end. I know as an average American that uncontrolled immigration for people that don’t have to play by the same set of rules as the indigeneous people is hurting this country. slow thoughtful controlled immigration is needed, but the flood gates have to be closed first. some consideration should be given to the people of America who are legal citizens. just like if Americans were doing this to Mexico, it would be wrong then too.

By antiRCH

May 23, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

RCH you are a classic. There you sit, by your own admission, in a room full of Indian H1B ITs working for cut rate wages, that ARE taking jobs that Americans DO want, and you are leading the charge here against Mexicans that DON’T. What a hypocrit. RCH you are the proverbial pot calling the kettle black are you not?

By harold

May 23, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Bush is a pandering leftist coward, that may have been the case when you still lived there, but they expelled you over a decade ago and things have changed!!!

By Jaynicia

May 23, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

Earlier someone said that people in europe speak spanish. FYI to you, the spanish spoken in europe is castillian, catalan or basque. As a matter of fact, many don’t unerstand latin american spanish and have to have it interpreted to them.

By RCH

May 23, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

LatinoComputerGangBanger That might be the case,however by scrutinizing carefully who is allowed in this country we may be able to screen out many of the criminal element.At this curent level that is not the case.

By harold

May 23, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

So, Gov. Sonny Perdue signed a bill this morning that law enforcement officials say will make it easier to track down Internet child sex predators.

Brilliant.

Does Gov. Sonny Perdue not know that the internet sex offenders will come to the police voluntarily?

Harold sees it on the local news every freaking danged day! They turn themselves in to police masquerading as children!

Does anybody on the internets even get molestered anymore EXCEPT the police pretending to be children?

By harold

May 23, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

harold suspex the wacko right is importing mexicans to fight the race war for them. they are hoping the mexicans will kill all the blacks, but so far it’s the other way around

By antiRCH

May 23, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this

By RCH

May 23, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

LatinoComputerGangBanger That might be the case,however by scrutinizing carefully who is allowed in this country we may be able to screen out many of the criminal element.At this curent level that is not the case.

Read the bill bozo! None of the present immigrants get legality until they pass a background check. Want to weed out the criminals already here? Pass the bill. Or do you just want the status quo? Oh, I forgot who I,m talking to. Ole “deport em all” RCH. Don’t hold your breath waiting for that one bonehead.

By RCH

May 23, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this

antRCH Missed the point again. Try legal vs illegal. Why do you hate Indians? Areyou the racist? I am not leading the charge against Mexicans just Illegals, Remember they come in many diffrent colors and natinalities.

By AM

May 23, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

Degree - Why do you spend so much time trying to defend LAWBREAKERS? What other lawbreakers are you attached to? Degree Huh - In what?

By D

May 23, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

many Hispanics are already very racist in their attitudes towards the gross y perezoso Americans, and of all the latinos I have met or encountered, the Mexican population seems to the worst about this and the most stubbornly arrogant about it too. most Mexicans have very little respect if any for Americans. they are even trying to create Atzlan, a new country within our country. because somehow they think that because they and their government profited off of the sale of the land in the American southwest, that it doesn’t count and the land still belongs to them, a tool used to justify there illegal crossing of the border and the demand for rights once they are here. but that is like saying the Louisiana Purchase belongs to the French, even the French don’t believe that. what is a concern is that these immigrants don’t want to be part of the melting pot and assimilate into America as future Americans. they want to push their border northward and make our country theirs and that is the real concern. but why should America keep being held to this land of immigrants thing, why can’t fairness prevail and America be able to exercise it’s immigration policies fairly for the sake of their own citizens, say like Mexico does? have you seen the mexican immigration policy toi their country and the punishment for illegal residency and tax evasion? what’s fair is fair, the truth will always be the truth, no matter how people will want to manipulate it for personal gain.

By deegee

May 23, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

AM, focus your eyes. It’s deegee not degree.

By antiRCH

May 23, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

RCH, you are to dumb to figure out that people are replying to your posts just to antagonize you and illicit progressively dumber posts from you. They are having fun with you RCH. You are so rabid on this, one that you know right now that you are going to lose. I for one would just love to have you around on bill signing day just to watch your reaction. All of us here know that for some reason Mexicans are like a stick in your eye. Did some lovely senorita spurn your advances or something RCH? I sure would like to be with you on signing day to watch that stick in your eye turn into a stick up your butt. I for one hope that it takes you years to extract it. You are one deserving dude RCH.

By date man

May 23, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

well it wouldn’t be unusual for a senorita to spurn an american’s advances, seeing how they would be looked at with scorn from their own community for dating a gringo, and yes that stinks of racism

By Andy

May 23, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this

Jim, the only losers there will be when this bill is passed are the virulent anti-immigrant groups. The rest of us will all be winners in many many ways. Some of them, like that clown over in Marietta, D.A. King, will actually have to get a real job again.

By deegee

May 23, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

AM, since you asked… I am not exactly attached to lawbreakers that drive 70 mph on GA 400 but I will admit to being one of them. I have tried driving the speed limit on 400 but I always have to speed up before causing a wreck or getting road raged. Where are thse Minutemen when you need them?

By lovelyliz

May 23, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

Who wins on immigration? The same people who have always won. Those employers who want to game the system by hiring, under the table, sub-wage workers.

By lovelyliz

May 23, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

Who wins on immigration? The same people who have always won. Those employers who want to game the system by hiring, under the table, sub-wage workers.

It also helps to have enough $$$ to pay the fines if & when you get caught.

By rarringt

May 23, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Date Man, for reminding us that there’s no discrimination in the bedroom.

Amazing how “diverse” certain people become when it relates to getting their groove on, but have totally different ideologies during business hours (Strom Thurmond, anyone).

It’s almost as if they’re ok with other folks so long as it benefits them in some way, but the moment those people become competition, well then let’s call the fellas who put up the Berlin Wall and get some estimates….

By MarriedaLatina

May 23, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

date man, I’ve been married to a Latina for 23 years and have yet to encounter that even in her home country. I am sure that there are cases of what you mentioned, but I for one have not experienced that. But isn’t that something fairly common to all groups. It is not exclusively an Hispanic prejudice by any stretch of the imagination. Watch the obvious looks of disapproval when a white woman appears with a black man. There are those in this country that would stone her if they could get away with it. I think the poster directed that at RCH for good reason. He seems to be that type.

By RCH

May 23, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

antiRCH We shall see. I don’t think this bill will pass in its present form. Obviously you cannot comprehend this has nothing to do with Mexicans. I hope the stick takes about 20yrs. its going to be about that long when the impact of legislation will be felt. I think you will sing a different tune. I will then hand that stick to you .

By Grandy

May 23, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

exactly, it so much fun watching politicians squirm and this time it’s the republicans, for all their manipulation, deceit, and their hiding behind Jesus, babies and the flag, couldn’t provide a cloak long enough to hide everyone from eventually seeing that they SAY they want tough policies on immigration and homeland security, but they are really just in the employ of big business that wants illegal labor. they work harder for Dubai and Mexico than they do for Americans, and all the time hiding behind babies, the flag and Jesus, how awful. just glad some people are starting to wake up to this manipulation and the fact that they have been getting duped. more than anyone else big republican supported corporations are the driving force behind illegals working here and being subsidized by government programs, the same entitlement type of programs republicans keep telling people they are so against.

By carter

May 23, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

Wow another bunch of know it alls who can only tie their shoes and wind their watches. Not one of them can do anything but spout their feeble opinions and argue or whine about things they know little about and can do nothing about. How irrelevant they are, You can’t do anything with a keyboard, you do it with a ballot.

By RCH

May 23, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

Your right Carter Like I said in my earlier blog, people will vote for their pocketbook.

By getalife

May 23, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

It is insourcing but we must get real.

Both parties have positioned themselves with the K Street lobbyists.

They control the issues. From Iraq, trade deals, immigration, healthcare, drug costs, education, etc…. you name it, they own it. They donate the money to make it happen.

What is shocking is the gop bucking this trend in a country over party position.

By harold

May 23, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

Bush is a pandering leftist coward,

How would you even know what other languages are spoken today in the UK?

They expelled you a decade ago!!!

By rarringt

May 23, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

D,

That’s interesting. Most Mexicans I know (including some family members) are decent, hard working, honorable folks. Regardless, I’m sure their insidious conspiracy to create a nation state doesn’t deter you from having them mow your lawn, clean your house, or cook your food (in some restaurant, to be sure).

Please don’t respond with the “I’m a self-mowin’ tax payin’ red-blooded (and stated) ‘murican” routine. The fact is you, like the rest of us have knowingly benefited from their presence.

As far as “Atzlan” is concerned, dang man, they’re just trying to import a bit of home over here. I’m curious to get your opinions on Chinatown, Little Tokyo, Little Italy, or any given part of Boston or Miami. I’m not sure if any of those areas reflect a general intent of dissembling this union.

The last time anybody tried something like that was back in 1861, and those people were…oh, never mind….

By deegee

May 23, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

TFTT is a mail order bride. No one would take that potty mouth home to meet mum.

By MinutemanMike

May 23, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

By deegee

May 23, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

AM, since you asked… I am not exactly attached to lawbreakers that drive 70 mph on GA 400 but I will admit to being one of them. I have tried driving the speed limit on 400 but I always have to speed up before causing a wreck or getting road raged. Where are thse Minutemen when you need them?

What do you think that we are doing deegee! Drinkin Budweiser, bustin caps on rabbits, spittin, scratchin, fart%n and telling each other what big brave men we are. We get to save Amurca and have some good amurcan fun too. Why I’ll bet ya that one day our misguided presdent will have us up to the big house and give us all an aaward. Proclaim us legends in our own minds. All you ungrateful mexkin lovin libruls need to honor us great examples of white amurcan defenders of this anglo-saxon state that our almighty God has given us. If it ain’t white, it ain’t right. If it looks brown, it must go down. That’s the Minuteman Stand.

By fed up

May 23, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

Between prescription drug “welfare” for seniors, immigration amnesty and the “Gawd Awful” No Child Left Behind Act… the Republican party has expanded federal intrusion and spawned new and larger entitlements like no one before them.

Why would Republicans preside of the largest expansion the federal government in history? Because they are paying of their corporate buddies. The pharmacy companies are profiting hugely off of the prescription drug scam. Big agriculture, food processing and manufacturing (what little is left in the US) are raking it in big off of the backs of illegal immigrants and off of the backs of working class Americans who used to be able to make a decent living. And the McGraws and their friends (old Bush family friends) have made billions off of NCLB.

At the same time they have botched foreign policy like only Democrats could previously. We are a far weaker country by any measure than we were when “W” took office.

Republicans are the new Democrats, particularly Bush and his “neocons.” Grandy is right - they can ride in on Jesus, babies and the flag, but they have sealed their fate for decades to come. We will not see Republicans leading federal government for at least a generation. Within a decade, Georgia will fall to Democrats again too, mark my words.

We have been had, folks… the neocons hit the motherload when they tapped into the small minded religious right nutcases, and they milked them for all they were worth. The payoff for Republican leadership and their cronies was enormous and we and particularly our children and grandchildren will pay a very dear price for it.

When Hilary, Ted Kennedy and Nancy Pelosi are running the country Republicans will only have themselves to blame.

Frankly, as a Republican I am starting to think that they may do a better job than Bush and friends. They certainly couldn’t do any worse!!

By D

May 23, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

I mow my own lawn, I am a good cook and I own a cleaning company, that’s one way that uncontrolled illegal immigratin has hurt me and my family. have done many jobs and not afraid of hard work, just want what is fair for me any my country, just like and illegal immigrant would want if Americans went to their country in great numbers and did the same things. I like how Atlanta has changed culturally, lived here all my life, except in the military. I like language, culture, geography and history. it was pretty plain here in Georgia for a long time, I like the diversity we have now. this is too much of a take over, too quickly and by people that don’t have to play by the same set of rules as the people who’s home has been so inconsiderately run over. it doesn’t need to be this way, if it happened in your country the way it is happening here, you wouldn’t like it either. slow, logical controlled immigration is what I would like, the same thing that other countries around the world are allowed.

By RCH

May 23, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this

Amen, Minuteman Mike! Keep up the good work. Bag a couple of em for me. I stand with you.

By RCH

May 23, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

D Let me tell you what will happen. Illegal will get amnesty. Since their employee-rs will now have to pay taxes on these workers:guess what ? He will fire them and hire new illegals, maybe Chineese.The older illegals will now wind up as a member of the working poor having to pay the tax burden they created. In 20 yrs there will be 20 million illegal Chinese who are now demanding amnesty. Today’s illegals will have to pay for that too. What a vicious cycle.

By deegee

May 23, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Let’s hope D.A. King does go back to his old job. Probation and a fine, sounds like the Lou Dobbs definition of amnesty. It seemed to work out okay for D.A.

“In 1977, King was convicted on federal gambling charges and sentenced to two years on probation and a fine, according to documents he provided to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. King said he had worked as a bookie in Alabama for more than two years and got caught in interstate betting on sports.”

By Don

May 23, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

And I bet he doesn’t call it amnesty either, did he deegee. It seems that the anti immigrant movement is riddled with trash like King. The guy quit his insurance job, or so the story goes to form and leech off of the Dustin Inman Society. This society like alot of other right wing issues, feeds off of ignorance and fear. The guy couldn’t function at a real job in the real world so he came up with another trade that depends on suckers to keep it alive. What is the difference in D.A. King and the guy that the right wing racist loves to hate, Jesse Jackson. Not one iota. You antis need to get more reputable messengers to pump your sewerage.

By deegee

May 23, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

In case you were wondering what really happened to all the money donated to the Minuteman Project and how easy it is to dupe an ideologue….

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?aid=249&site_area=1

By getalife

May 23, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

You know, the Border Patrol is hiring.

Just do not shoot any drug dealers or you will end up in prison.

Geez.

By RobertL

May 23, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

That picture of Gilchrist says it all deegee. Got that distinct redneck look that you see on some of those klansmen they show on the documentaries. You anti-immigrant freaks need to get some new messengers. The one you have now keep getting you shot.

By catlady

May 23, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

Alan G: Blaming “this economy” is like saying “he killed her, but society is to blame”. Let’s hear some REAL insight.

And, yeah, raringt, we’ve always had someone to do the grunt work, haven’t we? But why, this time, are we choosing to allow illegal immigrants to do it? Why not welfare mothers, or convicts, or…

By Indocumentado

May 23, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Stop whining you guys, see it my way: Thanks to comprehensive immigration reform there will be more jobs at Homeland Security, the welfare office, the hospitals, schools, DDS, even the Sheriff Depts, etc, etc to provide services to those becoming “legal”. This is a great day of victory for all of us. SI SE PUEDE! SI SE PUEDE! A suggestion: start learning Spanish, soon the automated phone system will answer: “For English press 2”

By BorderPatrolTO

May 23, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

Hey getalife! Those guys are trained to turn em around frontwards before they blast um. It’s their own damn fault they are in jail. Shouldn’t a shot him in the back. They left their throw down heaters at home too. Screw up like that and you deserve to be in jail. But in their defense, the little perp shouldn’t have shorted the mordida like he did. So in a way it’s his own fault that he got shot in the back.

By Don

May 23, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

D.A. King was also walking into Mexican restaurants and businesses demanding to see documentation. That all stopped when ICE had a nice long talk with him. He was told in no uncertain terms that keeping that up would land him in chains.

By getalife

May 23, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

All I know is I am filing my taxes as an illegal immigrant.

Geez.

By Grandy

May 23, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

at this point the illegal immigrants that are coming here now are needed to support the large latino population. like all the latinos that work in latino owned businesses that cater mostly if not exclusively to latinos. immigration is now only needed by the immigrants, there are plenty of people here now and people are still having babies.

By Patron

May 23, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

I thought they didn’t file getalife? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

By getalife

May 23, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this

I thought they didn’t file getalife?

Exactly and with amnesty they do not have to pay back taxes.

Good deal huh?

I want amnesty too.

Geez.

By Don

May 23, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

The present bill requires payment of back taxes getalife. Read it.

By Grandy

May 23, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

let’s get em amnesty, and let’s get that fair tax thing going so they can send money home and legally hurt the economy while not getting taxed, then let’s have Oprah buy em all a new car! but someone how I think that still wouldn’t be enough.

By gtfan

May 23, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

If this passes, I think the ‘South’ should secede from the Union, again.

LOL, but seriously, there are already laws, the govt. just has to enforce them.

We’ll be one big welfare country if this happens and no-one to pay for it.

By IRSagent

May 23, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

Getalife after checking you out by your IPA I can assure you that you don’t owe back taxes. Getting that EIC that you do assures that. Unless you’ve been working under the table getalife. Is there something that you want to tell me?

By rarringt

May 23, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

Grandy,

And that, class, is the heart of the matter. Folks don’t care about a bunch of people picking grapes. They are, however, quite concerned about the children of those migrant workers who might grow up and displace their own kids.

Those babies are going to grow up as fully americanized citizens, and aren’t going to be particularly interested in peeling potatoes at Ryan’s.

They’re going to go to school, pick up degrees, and compete with Brad and Cheslea to get into (whatever institution of higher learning you think your kids “deserve” to attend).

After graduating, they’ll get the jobs that Brad might have been eligible for had he not fried his brain in some fraternity, and wind up moving into your neigborhood. Until it’s time to trade up, that is.

The rest of the world is competing with us, and they’re not playing for second place. The same goes for the traditional “lower” classes in this country. You’d better not get terribly comfortable with anything you think you’re “entitled” to, lest it be taken by someone a bit hungrier and more ambitious.

And there’s the rub. The sense of entitlement that’s slowing eroding in this society, and the inevitable pushback to create an artificial barrier (and thus a permanent underclass).

After all, the free market is always better when you can control it.

By GodHatesTrash

May 23, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

Wooten may be on to something, the Mexican immigrant and the GOP redneck have a lot in common:

Rape of teenage girls is a central part of their culture…

Both consider an eighth grade education “higher education”…

Both groups like to get drunk and beat their wives…

Mexicans and rednecks will eat anything, the greasier and oilier the better…

Both rely on public assistance to take care of their medical bills…

Neither pay income taxes, the Mexican because he works off the books, the redneck because he is too lazy to work…

The Mexican of today is the GOPer of tomorrow? Could be!

Which is really the only difference between a redneck and a Mexican - Mexicans don’t mind working occasionally.

By Don

May 23, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

rarringt you may have hit the nail right on the head. The antis are scared to death.

By getalife

May 23, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

Don,

Please post the part about paying back taxes.

Thanks in advance.

By RCH

May 23, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

rarringt I agree with you up to a point.Many of the children will grow up and compete in this society. However, many will use that since of entitlement when the don’t succeed. Then we will have many minorities battling over who was the most abused and therefore most entitled.

By jbmlaw

May 23, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

Americans would be able to better compete with immigrant labor if they didn’t have to pay taxes and could have their families and companies subsidized by the government, too.

By Dusty

May 23, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

I am sorry to disagree with some of my friends here such as jbmlaw. But I cannot change my mind about immigration.

I was “brought up” to believe that observation of the law was the right way to go.

Now I am faced with decisions about whether I should approve something “illegal”.

Illegal in reference to people means one who has broken the law. I do not believe that it is correct to break the law. It has nothing to do with skin color, economics, family values, religion, Social Security, or language.

If immigration laws are changed to make legal immigration a farce, then we might as well adopt all “comers” as citizens and remove any boundaries between us. That would be the honest way to do it. Or else enforce the laws that are already made and approved. That goes for illegal entries and illegal hiring.

Very soon the USA will be exactly like the third world countries from which these illegals come. We have a great country but it is not capable of supporting the entire less productive world.

Legal immigration is a tonic. Uncontrolled immigration will be like another Katrina, nothing will hold back the floods that decimate and drown.

By Indocumentado

May 23, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

rarringt, you are a person of great wisdom….my son is graduating from Georgia Tech with an Aerospace Engineering Master degree and getting a six-figure paying job at Boeing starting in September…who would have known, the son of an illegal, nothing special about him, only the cojones to study and work harder than Brad and Chelsea…SI SE PUEDE! God bless America! Support the troops! and all that.

By getalife

May 23, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

It’s not a given that they become Democrats.

Well, both parties will sell them out for Corporate interests but the dems are pushing for the min. wage increase in the Iraq spending but the gop are against amnesty.

They will vote dem. Not much difference in both parties now.

By deegee

May 23, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this

getalife, section 622.

In addition to the work requirement, Z-A aliens must pay their back taxes, learn English, and pay (a reduced) fine equal to $500 total.

By Ray

May 23, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

Dittos Dusty…and if the amnesty does go through, they should only get 3/5 of a vote come election time.

By getalife

May 23, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

Well, I will not file as an illegal immigrant then.

Thanks but who will enforce this crap when they do not enforce the current laws.

By RCH

May 23, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

deegee If most of these illegal aliens were payed under the table, how will we know what there tax liability is. Lets be real, most of these sections will not be able or wanted to be enforced.

By ATC

May 23, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

Dusty wrote, “I do not believe that it is correct to break the law.”

I call BS on that one.

Dusty does not believe it is correct to break the law unless you’re a member of the Bush administration or the GOP.

Beat it, hypocrite.

By Don

May 23, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

getalife it was in the first stories that came out and all of the talking head debates since have stated that. But I will see if I can find it getalife.

By getalife

May 23, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

Don,

deegee found it and am sure more changes to come.

I stand corrected.

By For the Record ....

May 23, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

As the son of an immigrant – my father worked manual jobs all his life to support my brothers and me - I am conflicted on the subject. I understand the futility of fighting strong economic forces, and I decry the mean-spirited xenophobia of right-wing demagogues who know that their core audience of angry white men need to be constantly reminded that there are various and sundry chimerical “demons” out and about in the nation to be feared and despised (Bill O’Reilly has been working the immigrant fear card especially hard of late, probably to bolster sagging ratings.)

My ambivalence is primarily personal and two-fold . First, after my grandfather came to this country, he had to wait years before he could arrange for my grandmother and father to enter legally. There were strict quotas on southern Europeans in those days, the result of a twisted, racist “scientific” sociology perpetuated by the early 20th century American Academy, especially the Ivy League, that argued in favor of Nordic immigrants and against all others. My family was forced to observe misguided and odious laws — and we did. It rankles me that how easy it is for the current laws to be completely ignored.

The second reason is assimilation. In Brooklyn, my father and his brothers had no choice in the city schools – they were forced to learn English from the moment they matriculated, in extra classes. And virtually every immigrant family in the neighborhood approved of this policy and was grateful for it. While I have seen statistics that indicate that the majority of Hispanic immigrants want their children to learn English, I am not sure that the desire to become fully integrated into English-speaking American society is as prevalent today as it was in my father’s day.

That said, I support the efforts that will allow illegals to work to become citizens some day. I believe in America (the opening line of the movie The Godfather, by the way), and believe that it is immigration that has made her great. I’ve just finished a biography of Andrew Jackson, and couldn’t help but marvel at the sheer force of will, the intense ambition, the pure moxie it took for those early arrivals to come to a strange and dangerous land teeming with obstacles, and to overcome them. It was (Creationists hide your eyes for a second) natural selection of the highest order. I have no doubt that in time, with effort, the illegals here now can and will provide America with new energy and creativity — just like generations of like-minded individuals have done since the first days of Jamestown.

By Dusty

May 23, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

indocumentado @4:01

Congrats on your son. If he was born in the USA he is a legal citizen.

I hope he will not have job competition from open immigration when:

Sudan transports all citizens of Darfur here,

When Chad sends all their citizens and refugees here,

When the starving North Koreans catch a ship here,

When half of China gets tired of communism and goes USA,

When another earthquake destroys much of northern Indonesia and all ravished citizens come here,

When Zimbabwee’s citizens get tired of a dictator and get here,

And the list goes on and on. But do not worry. All these people just love to work. Yes!! God bless America! Support the troops! and all that!!

By Dusty

May 23, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

ATC @ 4:14,

I don’t believe I need a prejudiced, brainless liberal to interpret my posts. They stand just like I write them. If I may be so rude…. MYOB. You could stand some improvement.

By Death to greaseball loving leftist scum

May 23, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

harold you snivelling inadequate alcoholic limp wristed dog turd and deegeebitchslutcow please go fook your inbred leftist afterbirth greaseball illegal loving selves.

harold is only her ein the USA beacuse of queer marriage in Assachussetts and b*** is but a slothful sullen ho from Guadalope!!

By Van

May 23, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

I just keep reminding myself that in 1,000 years none of this will matter anyway.

By Death to greaseball loving leftist scum

May 23, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

the poofy illegal loving queer harold is only here in the USA because of ILLEGAL queer marriage in Assachussetts and deegeebitchcowslut is but a slothful sullen ho from Guadalope!!

By deegee

May 23, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

Sounds so nice she had to say it twice.

By Scholar

May 23, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

Yeah, we heard you the first time.

By Death to greaseball loving leftist scum

May 23, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this

Mexicans and rednecks will eat anything,

DUH!!!

rather bitter about your sister/mommy cheating on yer aint we godpleasebutcherthisleftisttrash!!!

By catlady

May 23, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

Our great Senators are backing off the immigration bill, according to the AJC online, but saying that it has less opposition than originally, and that there were more people clapping than booing at the Ga Republican meeting. Sorry boys, but this dog won’t hunt, no matter what you call it.

By JohnD

May 23, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this

Reports on whom the losers will be if the Senate immigration bill passes point to low-skilled American workers. The biggest percentage of these is now in the Black community.

A raise in the minimum wage will not help most of the low-skilled workers since the federal law will only apply to businesses involved in interstate commerce.

Landscapers, wait staff and busboys in restaurants and other local business employees will not see the raise in pay. Most businesses affected by the raise in the minimum wage are likely already at or above the new level.

Smoke and mirrors anyone?

In Congress there are precious few Left and Right, they all play the game to benefit each other and shaft the American public. The Democrats have Robert Byrd (the KKK Grand Dragon) and Hillary Clinton (the Socialist, Communist, Moderate - whatever you want candidate) and yet the Left seems to think Dems are Liberals.

George Bush ran as a Conservative and once elected became the quintessential Liberal. Republicans in Congress are much the same.

As Eddie Murphy said in the movies, “I have found the greatest con game of all time”, or words to that effect when he came home from his first term in Congress.

The difference in MoveON, The Minutemen and the other political support groups and Congress is (drum roll please) - Congress uses OUR money.

You can be sure none of the support in the Senate for the amnesty bill has anything to do with altruism, a sense of right and wrong, the impact on social services and education, or a Christian, Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, Hindu etc. etc feeling of religious good for the people.

The support in the Senate is based solely upon each Senator’s idea of how this will be good for him or her. Period.

By slapRCHaround

May 23, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

By RCH

May 23, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

deegee If most of these illegal aliens were payed under the table, how will we know what there tax liability is. Lets be real, most of these sections will not be able or wanted to be enforced.

There you go again RCH. According to the Pew Center for Social Studies more than 65% of the illegals pay taxes. I guess only where you went to school is 35% of something “most”. Anyway, it is all a moot point. The guys here now are going to get legality. Sorry bout that bigot boy.

By JohnD

May 23, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

Lindsay Graham was booed at the SC Republican convention when he spoke of the immigration bill and in a TV interview he sloughed off the boos by saying people in SC do not like Teddy Kennedy.

Living in denial Senator Graham?

By Jose

May 23, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

RCH es stupido gringo. Even mi know that 35 is not bigger than 65.

By rarringt

May 23, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

Hi Dusty,

As a woman of literary stature, I imagine you’d appreciate this little snippet written by one lady, and posted on another….

Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

I know, it’s not “Constitutional” or anything, but once upon a time (prior to 2000), it spoke volumes about who we were as a people.

Shame that some folk have lost sight of that.

By deegee

May 23, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this

Yes, and the notion that most are paid under the table isn’t true anymore either. Employers defer the risk of employing illegal workers to employment agencies. The employment agencies are responsible for filing I9s for their workers. There are those that check the validity of the SS numbers provided and those that don’t. Illegal workers work under valid SS#s that just don’t belong to them or made up numbers. Every year the SSA sends the worker and the employer a notice if there is a mismatch and hence the Earnings Suspense file grows. The worker can either save all of their paystubs or go back to the employer for their tax history.

By JohnD

May 23, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

I am curious to know how the Pew Center, or any other group, made their calculations. The government guesses at the number of illegals in the country and has no real idea who they are or where they live.

Yet several groups produce studies, usually with conflicting results, about how many pay taxes and how many do not.

Statistical sampling no doubt but when we have no idea how large the actual illegal population is, or how many pay or do not pay, then how do they arrive at a relevant sample?

Remember, as long as a check is made to a corporation there is no requirement to file 1099 forms or any other information on the amount of the payments. Contractors are able then to receive any sum of money without much chance the IRS will discover who they are and how much they are paid.

Additionally, homeowners are under no obligation to report the amounts they pay to landscapers, painters, repairmen or any other workers around their homes as long as they are hired to complete a specific job and not as home employees.

Tax scofflaws abound in our society but the TRADES rival the drug, gambling and prostitution industries for unreported income I would suspect.

By Martin

May 23, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this

good point the statue of liberty was the biggest joke ever played on us and the French are still laughing about it, nobody in their right mind wants that crowd hangin’ around their country. it was not the people of this country’s idea for us to have open door policy after the west had been adequately settled.

and why is America the only country that has to be prevented from having fair immigration laws that help it’s citizens?

because a bunch of boisterous immigrants said it was?

I could never imagine going to someone else’s country and doing to them what has been done to us.

I could never imagine openly protesting in someone else’s country because their laws didn’t fit my desires.

and I couldn’t imagine using their flag the whole time I did it.

completely selfish behavior with no remorse to the generous and kind people of America that have apathetically allowed this happen to themselves. shame on those who believe their desires are more important than another person in their own homeland.

By Me No Census

May 23, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

there must be at least 30 to 35 million illegal immigrants in this country, at least, from many different countries around the world. and like these people actively and sincerely participate in our silly census, please.

By Ray W

May 23, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

These illegals are bringing their corrupt latino cultures with them, especially the Mexicans.

Their personal hygiene isn’t much better. Ever try to use a Wal-Mart restroom frequented by Hispanics…disgusting.

By getalife

May 23, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this

Well, Boner calls it “a pos bill”.

McTemper tells another gop Senator “FU”.

Such lively debate on this one.

Geez.

By JohnD

May 23, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

rarringt,

The Statue of Liberty stands for our history as a society of immigrants and the sentiment is real.

Prior to 1965 immigration was limited to 140,000 legal immigrants per year.

From 1965 to 1989 that number increased to 500,000 per year.

During the 1990’s the number increased again to 800,000 per year.

Again, these were legal immigrants and no doubt there was some level of illegal immigration even then.

I have seen reports that the US can only sustain approximately 200,000 legal immigrants per year when the demand on government services, employment and health care are considered. And this number does not allow for any illegal immigration.

A report also indicated that from 1965 to 1989 the Black community realized significant increases in income. From the early 1990’s to present day that figure not only has not increased significantly but has started to regress.

Who do you wish to offer prosperity in the US? Those who trace a lineage back one, two, three or more generations or would you rather open the floodgates and have the new and old suffer?

You nor I nor the US can be all things to all people. There is much space in our country but the resources are limited. How do you propose to allocate those resources?

Here is a 13 minute video if you are interested:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265&q=numbersusa&hl=en

By Dusty

May 23, 2007 6:04 PM | Link to this

Hello rarringt,

(Flattery will get you nowhere!)

I am quite familiar with the New Colossus written by Emma Lazarus. It quite typifies what this country has done from the beginning. The French were kind enough to personify or statuefy(?) it for us. And we added the sentiments.

If you are trying to say that we have forgotten, we have not. Otherwise, we would be running “illegals” out of the country with pitchforks and shotguns. But now, we are only trying to fairly equate and aquaint them with the laws of this country.

What is fair? Are pure moments of the heart to abolish laws at the expense of those who made them? Do we need laws at all if they are not to be followed?

I know that all “law” is not perfect. That is what we must change. If immigration is one of them, then the majority will decided as that is the American way.

I am afraid you have thrown your racial hat into the ring. Let us not do that because that is not pertinent. It comes down to the future of our country.

I think that ignoring the “illegals” here now will promote the impression that the USA has an open door policy for anyone that can get here.

I do not think it is unfair to say this country cannot support all people of the world that cannot support themselves.

By JohnD

May 23, 2007 6:13 PM | Link to this

Dusty,

If the immigration tide is not stemmed the result will be catastrophic for everyone.

Unfortunately the proponents of open immigration only see their Uncle or cousin who wishes to come to the US and ignores the millions who hate the US who wish to come here and destroy the country either with weapons or by overwhelming numbers.

Sadly our Congress is listening to the minority and ignoring the majority. We can only hope all the Senators who support the bill will be tossed out of office.

By Jose

May 24, 2007 8:57 AM | Link to this

at this point, immigration only benefits immigrants, years ago it ceased to be something that might have helped this country.