Home > Thinking Right > Archives > 2007 > April > 05 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USHOPE rules, Vernon Jones; the U.S. flag
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Thinking Right’s free-for-all Friday. Pick a topic:
• Let’s reason this out. State Rep. Roberta Abdul-Salaam (D-Riverdale), who is sponsoring a resolution to hang a portrait of Coretta Scott King in the Capitol, has twice failed to show up at a scheduled committee meeting to argue her case before. Contrite? “They do not intend to honor Mrs. Coretta Scott King,” she said. “It might embarrass them. It might make them look like they have a heart. … There’s a mean spirit down here, there really is.” She fails to present herself prepared. And then turns hostile when the committee didn’t do her job. Wow!
• OK, I’m overdosed. No more stories on male parents who rape or female parents who attempt to sell a 7-year-old daughter for prostitution. I’m OD’ing on evil.
• If Brian Nichols is able to run up the tab, thus using public money and the high-cost of his defense, to force the state to agree to a plea that will avoid the death penalty, the public will have been three times robbed: Once of public servants, a second time at the public purse and the third time in corrupting public justice.
• Headline: “Taliban executes 3 accused of spying.” No. “Taliban murders 3 who exposed terrorists.” An execution is lawful.
• Amazing that those with disabilities would protest a MARTA proposal to put a 50-ride per month limit on curb-to-curb para transit service. People with disabilities are charged $3.50 per trip — less with monthly cards — for rides that cost taxpayers about $32 each. You’d think the response would be: “Thanks, taxpayers; we can certainly arrange our lives and trips to stay under 50.” Instead it’s entitlement-anger.
• Any parent who stood in line at desired schools to sign up their children for pre-k can’t possible object to school vouchers. Vouchers allow parents to decide what’s best for their children and to buy those services from the provider of choice — just what parents who stood outside Sunshine House in Duluth and elsewhere were doing. Every parent should have that option in k-12 as well.
• The problem now with a sensible middle-ground compromise, like the one U.S. Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.) proposes on stem cell research using flawed embryos that can’t survive in the womb, is that we do live in a slippery-slope world and in one where ironclad guarantees are never that.
• You knew it was coming. House Democrats, in unveiling their budget proposal, intend to let the tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 expire in 2010. “The tax cuts haven’t starved the government of money,” U.S. Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-Ga.) said. “Last year, the federal treasury received the largest amount of revenue in history.” This is why Republicans have to stand for something and act boldly. Or else what they stand for is swept away in one Congress.
• New Century Financial Corp., the nation’s second-largest provider of high-risk subprime mortgages, files for bankruptcy and fires 3,200 people, half its work force. The marketplace has been brutal to lenders who stupidly failed to verify income, who loaned more money than buyers could repay when interest rates rose or who put people into homes they couldn’t actually afford with little or no down payment. Subprime borrowers paid high interest rates for one good reason: They’re bad credit risks.
• This should be the standard for every public official seeking higher office. The author is Ruenell Grier, a protester at the maybe-kickoff of the U.S. Senate campaign of DeKalb CEO Vernon Jones. Said Grier: “I don’t know how he could do anything Senate-wise if he can’t do anything county-wise.” Henceforth, those who can’t do anything legislator-wise don’t get considered for anything governor-wise.
• If the state had $10 billion in reserves for HOPE stipends, it still should have adopted reforms, and even tougher ones than those in 2004 that put controls on spending for books and fees and slightly stiffened academic requirements. At the time, 57 percent of high school graduates qualified as “scholars.” The data are now being gathered to gauge the impact.
• “I thank the border guards who bravely protect our borders and also arrested the violators, and I grant them the bravery medal to their commander,” Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said of those who took 15 British sailors and marines hostage. The Brits lost big. They looked and sounded weak. They just bought themselves more terrorism on the home-front.
• Writing on an American flag is offensive because it’s cheap emotionalism and not art. Painting the Mona Lisa on the American flag would be offensive, too, but it would be art.
Permalink | Comments (76) | Post your comment | Categories: Column
Comments
By Jeff
April 6, 2007 8:19 AM | Link to this
Overall a good post today, Mr. Wooten. Some points I’ll comment on:
Rep. Abdul-Salaam: Sounds just like most of her constituency. Loud and vocal, but does ZERO actual work, then complains when it doesn’t get done.
Parents and sexual abuse: Dull, rusty blade. “Sensitive” areas first. Then a very splintery wooden pole. Drag it out for WEEKS, then pull a Vlad the Impaler on them, long way. Even that is too good…. (and note that I wouldn’t even have condoned that for Saddam, or even Satan himself….)
MARTA complainers: Whatever happened to “beggars can’t be choosers”? Maybe this will convince some of them to get off their lazy tails and work for themselves… for the first time in their lives…
British: Why wasn’t the SAS employed? SAS is at least as good - some say better - as our top SpecOps guys. Should have been a decently easy snatch and grab, and instead Britain comes out looking EXTREMELY weak. First, their captured soldiers confess after a day, then the Iranian president “pardons” them? Iran won BIG on this exchange, and it only endangers ALL of us who value freedom. Too bad those on the left won’t see that through their own pile of crap they have their heads shoved into..
By Mid-South Philosopher
April 6, 2007 8:19 AM | Link to this
Good morning, Jim,
I must admit these two back-to-back items in Thinking Right this morning surprised me:
• Amazing that those with disabilities would protest a MARTA proposal to put a 50-ride per month limit on curb-to-curb para transit service. People with disabilities are charged $3.50 per trip — less with monthly cards — for rides that cost taxpayers about $32 each. You’d think the response would be: “Thanks, taxpayers; we can certainly arrange our lives and trips to stay under 50.” Instead it’s entitlement-anger. • Any parent who stood in line at desired schools to sign up their children for pre-k can’t possible object to school vouchers. Vouchers allow parents to decide what’s best for their children and to buy those services from the provider of choice — just what parents who stood outside Sunshine House in Duluth and elsewhere were doing. Every parent should have that option in k-12 as well. Seems to me that vouchers and in fact the entire public schools concept are nothing more than an entitlement program inasmuch as the vast majority of taxpaying parents rarely pay an amount in taxes equivalent to the cost of educating their children! The balance, of course, is made up by the non-parental taxpayers.
For the last 165 years or so, we have said to the public, “You procreate and produce offspring and we will educate them for you at taxpayer expense. We will provide an ever increasing menu of social and personal services (you know, like things parents should do) and we will increase the school day from 6:00 A.M. until you decide to come pick them up. We will build their self-esteem and never criticize their mistakes. We will teach them right from wrong, but God forbid that we should introduce the notion of “Deity” to them (after all that is the parent’s responsibility…if you can sober up long enough). We will provide counseling, tutoring, and on site health care. We will provide breakfast and lunch and, if we have time, we will teach them something in between. We will give them their medication, and, if you don’t have enough money after a wild week-end, our school social worker will even arrange to buy it for them. In some cases, we will even give students their medical injections and enemas (all at no extra charge to you…after all, that is what taxpayers are for). Oh, and by the way, while we are doing this, you can b*** and complain and tell us what a poor job we are doing and wonder, in your intellectual stupor, why test scores are not higher!”
As for me, I would rather spend my tax money on the disable riding the bus!
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
April 6, 2007 8:19 AM | Link to this
Morning Jim,
You forgot to mention the flip side of Rep Westmoreland’s rosy scenario on government’s coffers: Tax cuts haven’t starved the government for money, the GOP’s record setting discretionary spending and Georgie’s own private war have.
C’mon Jim. If you’re going to be “fair and balanced” you have to report on multiple angles…not just one person’s PR soundbite.
By Mid-South Philosopher
April 6, 2007 8:25 AM | Link to this
Sorry my comment ran together with the two quoted items in the first paragraph. Jim’s comments end with …have that option in K-12 as well.
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
April 6, 2007 8:44 AM | Link to this
Jeff,
I don’t know a whole lot about Marta’s para-transit program. I’d love to hear an anecdote from you about one of the people you know who use it. Feel free to pick on the laziest, good for nothing rider you know.
Can you share one with us? You can change the name to protect his/her identity if you like.
And Jim, I’d love to see you interview one of these people about their day. You know…go in depth. Do some reporting. Get some leather on the ground.
By jbmlaw
April 6, 2007 8:50 AM | Link to this
Good morning all. All elected bodies – indeed, all organizations - have a mix of workers and poseurs; Roberta Abdul-Salaam is clearly the latter.
I second Holly’s argument on the Nichols defense; such profligate spending suggests he needs to be chairman of the national democrat party instead. Seriously, though, just for balance, how much has the prosecution spent on what should be a no-brainer case?
I’ll bet your Taliban headline was written by the Reuters “News” Service (note the “scary quotation marks” – that is an old Reuters trick, used to disparage the subject.) Or maybe CNN.
I suspect your MARTA ingrates are a small percentage of the handicapped riders, and I’ll bet all the ingrates grew up in a city run by democrats. Children learn manners in republican enclaves.
Isakson’s proposal is workable – we will simply define all embryos within democrat wombs as “flawed.”
Democrats always raise taxes. The average Joe cannot be trusted to spend his money intelligently, and only democrat overlords know how the money should be spent.
On the subprime stuff, markets work. Our leftist friends decry that fact, but it is as solid as “water does not run uphill” and “there’s no such thing as a free lunch.”
Dear Holly, for all the wisdom you have shared today, you have a fundamental logical flaw in your post on legislators and executives. Those are unrelated skills. Effective legislators lack core beliefs, and can compromise on anything. Effective executives always have firm beliefs, and elevate standards. If Vermin Jones is not the best county executive, that does not preclude the possibility that he would be a good legislator.
On the Iranian hostage-taking, I have many unanswered questions. My knee-jerk reaction is different; I remember hearing Tony Blair saying the next 48 hours would be critical, and at the end of the 48 hours the hostages are suddenly released. What would make a particular 48 hour period “critical?”
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
April 6, 2007 9:14 AM | Link to this
jbm,
By manners in Republican enclaves, do you mean the likes of Jennifer Natbony in Cobb County.
Does she hold the kind of manners that you speak of? And her dad’s disregard for the court system? Is that the kind of thing that the children up in Cobb county are learning from their elders?
By JP
April 6, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this
“• The problem now with a sensible middle-ground compromise…is that we do live in a slippery-slope world and in one where ironclad guarantees are never that.”
So, we shouldn’t compromise? This hyper-partisanship is really working quite well, so I can see why you’d say that. Not to mention, it’s one of the first signs of anything reasonable to come out of Isakson—you should be thrilled, you probably voted for him.
“You knew it was coming. House Democrats, in unveiling their budget proposal, intend to let the tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 expire in 2010. “The tax cuts haven’t starved the government of money,”….”
Why does the right assume it’s only about government revenue, while ignoring our current tax policy’s enhancement of the redistribution of wealth from the working class to the investor class?
By Dekalb Resident
April 6, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this
Vernon Jone’s run for higher office is win-win for everyone. He won’t win, but we get him out of Dekalb County government.
By Redneck Convert
April 6, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this
I would sure hate to see the tax cuts for the poor people that live in gated places expire. Its tough enough to make it on 3 or 4 hundred thousand a year as it is.
I was jawing with Tater Slocum the other day. Tater is the one that owns the big co. that builds houses. He said he is sorry he had to fire me from the sheetrock job so he could hire the illegals and pay them less. Tater was moaning the blues about the libruls letting the tax cuts expire two years from now. He says he pays more than 30 grand per year in taxes on his big house right now. If the tax cuts go he says he will be in the poor house. He will be down to his last 2 hundred grand or so. Says he might have to give up his 3 country club memberships.
Anyway Tater says he makes a lot of jobs for people. Most of them illegals. But they are still jobs. He’s not sure but he thinks he might have 2 or 3 regular Americans on the payroll.
So that’s what you get when you elect libruls. Well, I got a big beer run to make. The Baptists will be awful thirsty this weekend, it being a holy day and all. Don’t forget to send your money to Committee to Elect Redneck Convert for President, c/o Simpsons Trailer Park, Dawsonville, GA. Big tax cuts for people like Tater. Maybe not for libruls or Those People. Thanking you for your support.
By Dennis
April 6, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this
Mr. Wooten write; The Brits “just bought themselves more terrorism on the home front.”
And what in the hell do you think GWB has bought for American citizens, Mr. Wooten, peace?
We are hated more around the world now than we’ve ever been before because of the Bush/Cheney war policies. Nor are we any safer because of them.
You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.
By Rich
April 6, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this
’..the redistribution of wealth from the working class to the investor class.’
First of all JP, why didn’t you just go all out socialist and claim that the poor are being robbed by the investor class as well? Nice catch phrase btw, investor class. So investors don’t work, only working class people work. One thing your social warfare link didn’t mention is that a significant portion of those who are now wealthy came from middle tier classes.
Click here to see some real facts JP that your fellow socialists at the globe conveniently left out. One more thing, exactly how does the investor class take from the working class when the investor class, let’s say the top 10% here, pays nearly 70% of all federal income tax revenue? Throw it against a wall and see if it sticks, right JP? Unfortunately for you socialist wingnut libs, not everyone in America is ignorant.
By KR
April 6, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this
Rep. Abdul-Salaam: if it isn’t important enough to you to show up and make your case, don’t expect it will be important to anyone else.
Nichols: there is no doubt about his guilt, only his sentence. The sentencing hearing should start Monday at 9am. No more funds to be allocated.
Vouchers: just another entitlement program. I’m not inclined to approve them unless you show me how it will reduce the taxes I pay. I’m one of those non-parents who is subsidizing the education of others’ children.
Sub-prime lenders and borrowers: no sympathy here for either side. I’ve spent my entire life trying to live within my means. Maybe you should give it a try as well…
By KR
April 6, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this
Rep. Abdul-Salaam: if it isn’t important enough to you to show up and make your case, don’t expect it will be important to anyone else.
Nichols: there is no doubt about his guilt, only his sentence. The sentencing hearing should start Monday at 9am. No more funds to be allocated.
Vouchers: just another entitlement program. I’m not inclined to approve them unless you show me how it will reduce the taxes I pay. I’m one of those non-parents who is subsidizing the education of others’ children.
Sub-prime lenders and borrowers: no sympathy here for either side. I’ve spent my entire life trying to live within my means. Maybe you should give it a try as well…
By jbmlaw
April 6, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this
Dear jacp @ 9:14, I did not see any lack of good manners in your link. Of course, for a young lady of good breeding, the biggest problem with a gang-bang is writing all of the thank you notes.
By Aquagirl
April 6, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this
Ms. Abdul-Salaam and those HOPE scholarship parents have a meeting of the minds. They feel entitled that the State will provide them with certain things and do little or no work to achieve the desired outcome. Difference is, the HOPE parents are taken seriously by politicians.
The disabled people complaining the most to MARTA are the ones with jobs. Two round-trip fares per working day adds up a lot faster than the happily unemployed user’s trips. So I guess MARTA should fall in line with other government programs and reward those who aren’t trying to lead productive lives.
By harold
April 6, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this
Dummy, dont you know you probably make 50 trips a WEEK? 50 trips a month is nothing!
Going straight to work and straight back home 5 days a week adds up to 42 trips this month.
Think you can arrange your month to go to work plus only four other places and back? Harold thinks you can’t.
Let’s say you work and you grocery shop once weekly. There you go. That’s 52 trips a month. Harold guesses you just starve the last week of each month since your limit is 50.
By harold
April 6, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this
Why shouldn’t people be entitled to take advantage of our public transportation system? We are forced to pay taxes to support it, but then we are forced to buy our own cars to use it. If you can’t or don’t wish to afford a car, well, screw you, right? Wrong! The government has been half-assing it with giving us these “public” roads as a transportation system. If they force us to pay for roads, they should be forced to provide us rides. Why is our government allowed to provide INCOMPLETE public transportation? Would we let them build an infinitely expanding rail if we had to buy our own trains? Harold thinks not! But we are and we do except they are railless! The roads system is an infinitely expanding disaster designed to kill anyone poor who has to walk or bicycle or walk to the bus and wait for the bus. It is designed to keep the poor poor and to enrichen the rich! I-75/85 is Jim Crow incarnate! There’s a reason asphalt is black! It is for the priveleged driving over the faces of the unprivileged every day! The government must be stopped! They must be banned from putting money into any sort of transportation system that is INCOMPLETE like a road. Require COMPLETE transportation today!!!!
By Jeff
April 6, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this
harold,
hate to tell ya, bud, but roads are the single most COMPLETE transportation system available for any kind of distance travelling (outwards of half a mile or so). Reason? No other system will take you FROM anywhere TO anywhere. Mass transit relies on people coming to it. Roads allow a person to step out of their door, use the transportation system, and step into their intended place of visit.
By deegee
April 6, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this
I don’t think that people that are paying $3.50 per trip are expressing entitlement anger when protesting a 50 trip limit per month. Does anyone know the cost of a regular MARTA trip at $1.75 per trip? I would suspect that the taxpayers are subsidizing that as well. Wouldn’t the economy of scale suggest that more passengers using a public transportation system would drive down the cost per trip, not increase it.
The federal government mandated that public transportation systems must provide para-transit to disabled taxpayers. The riders are paying their 1-cent MARTA tax and they are entitled to public transportation.
By harodl
April 6, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this
Jeff, you are retarded or what?
Roads dont allow you do to anything. ANYTHING! They dont do nothing. They dont go nowhere. They just stay right there.
If you want transportation, you have to buy a car.
Thus, 100% INCOMPLETE. Roads are useless to the general public. You have to get a car to use make any use of them. Until the government starts handing out standard cars to go with the roads, they should not be making roads.
Fool!
By harold
April 6, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this
if roads and cars were “the way things are” but the government had an idea to build roads using countless billions/trillions of tax dollars and told us when it was done we would all have to go spend 25,000 or more extra dollars up front and then about 3,000 or more annually for our own transportation device to use on the roads but that if everybody did it this device would kill 45,000 americans annually, would you buy into it or call it the biggest most useless pork project in the history of the world part ii?
answer = easy. the public roads system is the biggest most useless and dangerous pork project in the history of earth, ever
By harold
April 6, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this
if the billions that have been poured into roads had instead been poured into a public transit rail system we would all have a rail station within a mile by now and thus there woudl be no “increase in crime” anywhere because rail woudl be everywhere.
instead we poured billions upon billions into road and even more into cars and there is no stopping, ever! it in an infinite bottomless pit
By JP
April 6, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this
Rich, “socialist wingnut libs” - nice debate tactic. Grow up and then maybe the adults will play. See you then.
By JP
April 6, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this
This guy will deny reality until the end of time. The Pentagon says “no Al Qaeda-Saddam link,” but Cheney STILL says there was one.
Of course, rightists will keep saying “no he didn’t, he never asserted such a thing!”
Get your head out of the sand, people. The truth is out—these guys are pathological liars and deniers of reality.
By Aquagirl
April 6, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this
That’s a good observation Jeff. But I don’t buy the premise that we should prefer subsidizing roads because Americans are too lazy to walk a block or two to reach mass transit. Roads are the best way to travel currently. We’ve spent trillions of dollars to make them the best. If we structured/funded individual auto travel like other transportation choices it wouldn’t be nearly as wonderful. Not that it is now, ask anyone who tried I-20 yesterday morning.
By harold
April 6, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this
what in heck does a very minor catch and release incident over a border dispute have to do with terrorism???? hmm, probably about as much as iraq had to do with terrorism, harold reckons. NOTHING
By getalife
April 6, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this
Sick of the evil and lies too Jim.
Send the neocons to Iraq for trial.
For example
Geez.
By harold
April 6, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this
so anyway why bother with an ethics investigation of the fat guy, Mark Taylor?
his career is over (did Sacha dump him yet?) and he has no future in politics so why waste the effort on his ethics?
if he did illegal stuff, go after him (but please dont make the taxpayers feed him), but if it was just unethical who really gives a damn
By harold
April 6, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this
if public transit funding and roads funding traded places we would elimliate our nation’s OBESITY EPIDEMIC
By harold
April 6, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this
jim wooten,
i be don’t like yo article. You be tripping on dees here folk. why you don’t be talkin ‘bout da brothas man? brothas need the skreets fixed so we can pimp our ride! where da money for dat,huh?
By deegee
April 6, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this
In the end, that whole British hostage thing looked to me like some sort of a Monty Python movie. The soldiers never looked like they were in any danger. They looked relaxed and never really seemed to be under any stress, unlike the hideous videos we have seen of Western hostages being held in Afghanistan and Iraq. Ahmadinajad is no dummy and he is toying with the West. Has the State Department learned anything from this? I hope so.
By harold
April 6, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
dear fake harold, everybody know harold calls jim wootens “big woot.” you are such a terrible impostinator
By harold
April 6, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this
I be callin him “big woot” when I be likin his article. dis article here don’t be talkin ‘bout da brothas. I don’t be meanin no haam, its just I don’t be wantin’ to be left out. “big woot”, if you don’t talk ‘bout da brothas, ah’m gon knock yo teef out!
By Jeff
April 6, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
Aquagirl:
A block or two???? When I lived in Bartow, I would have had to drive to KENNESAW to get on any form of mass transit. When I lived in Albany, I would have had to walk 2 miles to the nearest bus station, and even it would only take me to select destinations within the City of Albany. (Most of which I had no use for!!) In Warner Robins, where I currently live, I have yet to see a single bus in the month that I have lived here. I would have to walk the 20 miles or so to Macon, and then I would have the same problem that I had in Albany: only within the city limits, and only to select destinations.
Contrast this to my $3,000 13 yo paid for car. It is never more than a couple hundred yards from me, unless I leave it on purpose while riding with someone else in their car. It can (and has!!) take me to the most remote locations in this state or anywhere else I choose to go that is connected by some form of land. I never need to worry about being too late for it, or how long I’m going to have to wait for it.
Mass transit is for the sheep that can’t think for themelves and like being herded around like the cattle they truly are.
By Rich
April 6, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this
What JP, no comment about my post that shredded your socialist sob story other than grow up? I’m deeply moved, and you are so impressive, lib.
By JP
April 6, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this
Rich, I guess that depends on who you believe. And I suggest you drop the condescending tone if you want to have an adult conversation.
By getaclue
April 6, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this
Pelosi was the savior, no wait even the Washington Post attacks the Socialist of the House. My mistake.
Well, you neocons certainly can’t talk badly about Al Gore’s Global Cooling Theory now can you? Snow storms from the Mid-West to the Northeast and Easter Sunday will be cooler than Christmas Day for many cities. Of course for the 20% +/- of the US population that does not believe as Christians the days do not mean anything. BIG Al for President!
By JP
April 6, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this
P.S. Rich: “you are so impressive, lib.”
That tells me EVERYTHING i need to know about the kind of ideologue you really are. Both a personal cut down and use of “lib” as a slur, within 5 words, as if I’m supposed to cower from your use of that single syllable.
That’s a contender for pompous-a* comment of the week! Very nice!
By harold
April 6, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this
Jeff has watched too many car commercials
Jeff is roads funding and public transit funding traded places you would be bragging about riding the train and laughing at losers who cant afford to live within walking distance of the train
in real cities where that’s how things go, homes close to the commuter rail stations cost 3 times as much as those where people have to drive either to work or to the commuter rail station
jeff must be a nascar fan
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
April 6, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this
getalife and jp….just post the whole thing. It’s easier for folks to see the lies that way.
From the Seattle Times:
Cheney reasserts al-Qaida-Saddam link
WASHINGTON — Vice President Dick Cheney repeated his assertions of al-Qaida links to Saddam Hussein’s Iraq on Thursday as the Defense Department released a report citing more evidence that the prewar government did not cooperate with the terrorist group.
Cheney contended that al-Qaida was operating in Iraq before the March 2003 invasion led by U.S. forces and that terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was leading the Iraqi branch of al-Qaida. Others in al-Qaida planned the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
“He took up residence there before we ever launched into Iraq, organized the al-Qaida operations inside Iraq before we even arrived on the scene and then, of course, led the charge for Iraq until we killed him last June,” Cheney told radio host Rush Limbaugh during an interview. “As I say, they were present before we invaded Iraq.”
However, a declassified Pentagon report released Thursday said that interrogations of the deposed Iraqi leader and two of his former aides as well as seized Iraqi documents confirmed that the terrorist organization and the Saddam government were not working together before the invasion.
The Sept. 11 Commission’s 2004 report also found no evidence of a collaborative relationship between Saddam and Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaida network during that period.
Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, had requested that the Pentagon declassify the report prepared by acting Defense Department Inspector General Thomas F. Gimble. In a statement Thursday, Levin said the declassified document showed why a Defense Department investigation had concluded that some Pentagon prewar intelligence work was inappropriate.
The report, which had been released in summary form in February, said that former Pentagon policy chief Douglas J. Feith had acted inappropriately but not illegally in reviewing prewar intelligence. Levin has claimed that Feith’s intelligence assessment was wrong and distorted but nevertheless formed part of the basis on which President Bush took the country to war.
Although Feith’s assessment in mid-2002 offered several examples of cooperation between Saddam’s government and al-Qaida, the report said, the CIA had concluded months earlier that no evidence supported the existence of significant or long-term relationships.
By getaclue
April 6, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this
JP,
You believe poorly (for you Indiana Jones fans).
Your link is to a flawed study. The top federal tax rate in the 1960’s was over 70%. Of course the rate for the top 1/100th of a percent of American taxpayers has dropped - only a liberal would need a study to realize a top rate of 35% is lower than a top rate of 70%.
The study also cited social security taxes, the darling of the American Left, which are by nature regressive.
Figures lie and liars figure.
By JP
April 6, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/04/06/pelosi_trip/index.html
“The idea that we should use military force against Iran, or simply refuse to negotiate with Iran and Syria, or stay in Iraq indefinitely and continue to wage war there, or that a visiting politician’s decision to wear culturally appropriate clothing when visiting a mosque is a sign that we are about to live under Islamic law and submit to our new Al Qaeda Rulers — those ideas come from a fringe and radical group which lies outside of mainstream thought both in the West and around the world, yet those are the ideas that comprise the American media’s dominant narrative.”
Indeed, the “liberal” media has us over a barrel. And this fringe seems to spend lots of time on this blog!
By Rich
April 6, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this
JP, the way I’ve seen you lefties post to conservatives on this blog, I wouldn’t be mentioning a condescending tone. Interesting how your link mentions only about dropped tax rates but nothing about the amount paid by those in your crystal ball of unfairness.
Depending on who you want to believe indeed, especially from liberal think tanks like the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.
There’s another link here JP about who pays what. Somebody is either flat out lying or not telling the entire truth. I’d say your side is. Have a pleasant weekend.
By deegee
April 6, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this
Cheney was talking to Limbaugh. Limbaugh is a talk show host with commercial sponsors. Cheney can say anything he wants to Limbaugh’s audience and they will buy whatever he and the sponsors are selling. Limbaugh has a niche market and he sells to his market. Nobody else really takes him seriously.
By Jeff
April 6, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this
harold:
once again, you have made my point for me. Mass transit is only for the sheep and cattle. People with a brain would live where the houses are cheaper (not to mention all that noise from passing trains… it is bad enough when you are 5 miles from the nearest track!)
By Barbara
April 6, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this
Still got a slice of pie left. Any takers? Oh wait, the pool boy just arrived. Never mind.
By Rich
April 6, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this
‘That tells me EVERYTHING i need to know about the kind of ideologue you really are. Both a personal cut down and use of “lib” as a slur,’
Sure JP, and you are a perfect centrist, aren’t you with your totally non biased links? {rolling eyes} Not an ounce of partisan politics in you, is there JP? Why get all blowfishy? I’ve seen how you lefties treat conservatives on this blog. Let me guess, you guys on the left can hand it out, but you can’t take it back.
By Jeff
April 6, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this
Barbara,
Hope the pool boy enjoys his pie! If he doesn’t, let me know. Pie just happens to be my favorite dessert! :P
By JP
April 6, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this
Rich, I make no claim of credit or blame for others among “we lefties” on this forum. I also don’t claim that I haven’t used slurs myself, although I try to keep it to a minimum. Many righties here, however, do not. Woudl you like me to compile a list of derogatory slurs used in this forum for one week? If I have time, I’ll see if I can put one together.
And if you’re going to throw a Weekly Standard article at me, you have no room to speak of non-biased links. No room.
Have a great weekend!
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
April 6, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this
Rich,
Do you know why your first link at 12:37 says what it does? It’s because people who ask questions and follow leads are liberal. By default, the Right define people who ask questions of authority as “liberal”. There are no conservatives asking questions or challenging authority, unless it’s for pointedly political purposes.
Thats why, when Dick Cheney appears on Rush Limbaugh’s show (on the Excellence in Broadcasting network), Limbaugh asks no challengeng questions of Cheney. In the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, Cheney can make a statement such as he did, and he won’t be challenged.
If he were to appear on a legitimate news program, or talk to a real news reporter, he would be challenged heavily on that statement. His response would not be to make a case, but to attempt to marginalize the person asking the question (by claiming a liberal bias), therby casting enough dobut on that person so as to shore up his base of believers…allowing him to change the topic.
That’s why there are no documentaries on Fox News. That’s why there are no guests on Limbaugh other than friendlies. That’s why it takes only one quack researcher to cast dobut on reams of valid global warming research. The right has made the very act of asking quesitons a liberal pursuit…no matter whether the questions are valid or the answers ar accurate.
Since Conservatives can’t ask questions and follow them through to a conclusion, they simply marginalize those who do (those who endanger conservative myths through fact) by creating a negative meaning and branding them with that meaning.
By Politics Aside
April 6, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this
The pool boy? Oh, so it’s lemon pie, eh?
Enjoy the squeeze.
By deegee
April 6, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this
Jeff, have you ever been outside of Georgia? Do you think that the trains that carry commuters from Connecticut, Long Island and New Jersey into New York City every day are for sheep and cattle? Have you ever been to Europe and witnessed a mass transit system? Open your eyes, man. We were sold down the river 50 years ago by the oil and automobile industries. We were at a crossroad and our enlightened leadership chose cars and roads over trains and track. The suburbs grew up around the roads with the expectation that gas would always be plentiful and cheap. Had we chosen trains and track the American landscape would be quite different now. Not to mention, we would not be subsidizing Middle Eastern terror at the same time we are fighting it.
By Jeff
April 6, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this
deegee:
I’m a rarity indeed: I have lived in each of GA’s lateral regions (though admittedly I have never lived on GA’s East Side, though I have visited extensively). While my travels outside our Great State are indeed limited, I have traveled extensively through our neighbor states, have been in every state in the SouthEast, have been along the Eastern Seaboard as far South as St. Augustine, FL and as far North as Old Sturbridge Village, Mass. (somewhere north of Boston). I have also been as far West as Phoenix, AZ. I have been north OFF the Eastern Seaboard to within 20 miles or so of Canada (via Sandusky, OH). Indeed, while there is much of this country that I have yet to see (Vermont, NH, Maine, and all states north and west of the line defined by OH, KY, TN, AR, TX, NM, AZ), I have seen more than you may think.
And an interesting fact to note? Even though I did indeed fly (a form of mass transit, if you will) to San Antonio, Austin, DFW, and Phoenix, I used ROADS while in said cities to get around. Another interesting fact to note is that EACH of those cities, while having a form of mass transit, holds true to my earlier comments. The only way to effectively get around anywhere is by ROAD. Only sheep and cattle use mass transit.
By Politics Aside
April 6, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this
Bill Oreilly lost his composure last night arguing with Geraldo about illegal aliens and their contribution to drunk driving fatalities. editorial news spinning at it’s best, and expect to see more vicious debate with plenty of screaming, anger, hate and red faces because it makes for must see tv and big time ratings.
Soon, there could be duels, and then fights to the death for ratings. High noon style.
Had O’reilly been armed with a stiletto or a bludgeon, there’d be nothing left of Geraldo today, he was THAT outta control.
By deegee
April 6, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this
Barbara, that’s not the pool boy. You are too close to your big, bright 50” HDTV, advanced Plasma screen. Turn off The Guiding Light and get back to reality.
By deegee
April 6, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this
Here’s the clip. You gotta see it to believe it. O’Reilly really hates it when someone takes the spin out of the no-spin zone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLPuGuaZTx8
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
April 6, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this
Jeff,
The sheep are on the road. Giving their money to the car manufacturers and oil companies.
I take the train to work every day, haven’t spent a nickel on my truck in five years, won’t spend a nickel on it for another five, and spend less than $20 a month on gas (until football season when I drive more to Athens).
Traffic is so bad where I work (because of all the bad planning and excessive road building) that my employer pays for my Marta card.
I live near a marta station, by choice, and my home value is going to go through the roof in the next decade. Why? Because traffic is going to be sooo bad in Atlanta that anything near Marta will be golden.
I like nothing better than seeing traffic hosed up on the top end perimeter and 85 as I cross it. I love looking at all those sheep, funding terrorism.
Oh…and I missed your post about that person you know who uses Marta para transit. Who was that?
Baaaa.
By deegee
April 6, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this
Jeff, I never saw any reference to trains in your post describing your extensive travel. If, in your opinion the only way to travel is by car and airplane than how do you come to the conclusion that mass transit is an ineffective form of transportation? Do you know that people can read and take college courses during their train commutes? Do you factor in national energy consumption when forming your opinion?
By jbmlaw
April 6, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this
Dear jacp @ 12:55, you wrote “… people who ask questions and follow leads are liberal. By default, the Right define people who ask questions of authority as “liberal”. There are no conservatives asking questions or challenging authority, unless it’s for pointedly political purposes.” Are you suggesting that it is liberals (your term, not mine) who are asking the tough questions about global warming? I thought they had proclaimed the issue beyond question? Or, as I assume, you deem any doubt about the merits of crippling our economy as unworthy?
By Jeff
April 6, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this
deegee:
I am referring to BOTH trains and busses when I reference “mass transit”. Besides, commuter rail is pretty well dead, unless you are in the DC-Boston corridor. Virtually any other mass-transit level rail system is for a specific metro area only. (That even goes for the DC-Boston corridor. You don’t see DC’s Metro operating in NYC, or NYC’s subway operating in Boston, etc. There is simply more traffic on “normal” commuter rail in that corridor.)
By cottontail
April 6, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this
hah! jp posts wingnut liberal links and someone else responds with right wing links, and that’s just not supposed to happen and they whine! Do as we shout from the mountains on, not as we do on the mountains, right wingnutter liberals? tinhats
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
April 6, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this
jbm,
I see where you’re going. But I’m not talking about challenging scientific consensus I’m talking about challenging the interests who will stop at nothing to maintain the staus quo…only because it benefits them at the expense of others.
On almost every smilar issue that has come down the pike, car safety, tobacco, environmental legislation, etc…it’s always about narrow captial interest vs. the larger public well being. In all of those cases, scientific consensus was achieved, industry balked, government stepped in, regulatory oversight was implemented, and the public benefited.
And, in all of those cases, you made the same argument you’re making here…that the economy will be crippled. As far as I can tell, it hasn’t.
Roll the dice. If Al Gore is wrong, then he’s an idiot and we go about our business. If he’s right, then we go extinct, but a select few had a really great time on their yachts right up til the end.
By deegee
April 6, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this
Jeff, Are you aware that an Amtrak train that you catch in Atlanta uses the same track that DC, and NJ-New York commuters use? Schedules and trains are coordinated to allow for local and express traffic. It takes planning, Jeff. That’s something that we Americans don’t do very well on a national scale. You are absolutely incorrect in your assertion that commuter rail is dead outside of the northeast corridor. Additionally, if our enlightened national leadership would make the committment, I am sure that the national rail grid could be upgraded and utilized more efficiently than it is today.
By getalife
April 6, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this
“Cheney and Limbaugh have about six military deferments between them. Them talking war is akin to Jeff Gannon talking girls.”
Geez.
By harold
April 6, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this
Jeff is just some idiot car salesman, that’s all.
By deegee
April 6, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this
He probably sells Fords.
By Toby Keith
April 6, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this
I’m a Ford truck man. That’s all I drive.
By Jeff
April 6, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this
deegee:
Why bother with a train when I can fly there in half the time (on a VERY slow plane) or drive there for half the cost (if that?)
For example: Planning a trip from ATL - DC tomorrow (Apr 7)
Airtran (plane): $269 for a coach seat. 1hr 47 min flight time into Reagan. I have to be AT ATL at a set point, go through the security procedures, and have ZERO control over my environment. Once there, I must rent a cab or use the Metro.
Amtrak (train): $189 for a reserved coach seat. Travel time of 13 hr, 49 min. Same commentary as flying.
Automobile (in my case, a ‘94 Honda Civic): assuming a gas price of $2.75, and the knowledge that I must fill my tank approx every 300 miles or so (between 30 and 40 mpg in my car, but I generally play it safe… ran out of gas one too many times in my day!), the price of the trip is approximately $75. Assuming 65mph the entire ride, I get an approximate trip time of 11 hr 15 min. I can leave when I want, I don’t have be at any set point nor do I have to go through any kind of security, and when I get too cold I can turn up the heat or vice versa. If I want to smoke, I can, and there are no restrictions on using my cell phone either. In other words, complete freedom.
And I’m incorrect about National rail being dead? Why are we having to subsidize Amtrak so much then? Get me some numbers: Money spent on gasoline by Americans every year, money spent on airfare, and money spent on trainfare. I would be willing to bet that the train fare number isn’t a QUARTER - maybe not even 5% - of the airfare number….
By Barbara
April 6, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this
Whew. The pool boy just finished eating my pie. What’d I miss? He was especially ravenous today. Ate the whole thing and then licked his fingers clean. Then I showed him a few of my best strokes in the pool.
By harold
April 6, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this
airtran and amtrak will probably make it there and back
your 94 civic probably wont
on a plane or train you can get drunk
in your 94 civic you probably get drunk too
why shouldnt we subsidize amtrak, jeff? you think your 94 civic isnt subsidized? no? well then who exactly paid for all the roads you will use driving to DC? Huh? They cost far more than an Amtrak rail
go sell your used cars somewhere else. try china. they havent figured it out yet.
By deegee
April 6, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this
Jeff, when you were flying into Atlanta did you happen to notice what color the air is that we breathe? It ranges in color from brown, to red to yellow to grey. Pollutants and high humidity combine to make Atlanta the asthma capital of the US. This is just one of many intangible prices we pay for automobile and petroleum dependency. You need to factor that into your efficiency formula.
By Jeff
April 6, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this
deegee:
For me to buy the “asthma” argument, you would have to provide a definitive link between car exhaust and asthma. Like definitive proof the humans cause global warming, you won’t find it.
By deegee
April 6, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this
Jeff, you’re high on fumes. This is a waste of electrons.
By Aquagirl
April 6, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this
Nice to drop back in and see Jeff still defending his welfare lifestyle. In Jeff’s world, the billions spend on airport facilities and security isn’t government subsidies. Neither are the extra miles of roads and sewers and powerlines that must be extended to his little kingdom. Why no, all you have to do is plant magic beans and those roads sprout right up?
Hey, genius…what you pay for something might not be what it costs. But you don’t care as long as you get what you want. Just like anyone else sucking off the government teat.
By Joe
April 11, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this
Why doesn’t the Most Rev Sharpton have a debate on the 70% of the children of his race who are illegitimate and the cost to society for this missbehavior of their mothers. Also discuss the number on the free lunch program, and all the other sins of his race. Then the remark on radio would seem very small.