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DEL.ICIO.USStem cell bill covers ethical bases; pass it
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
At 41, state Sen. David J. Shafer of Duluth is already talking about how he wishes to be remembered when he is gone from this Earth.
The seriousness with which he approaches, and his diligence in lining up scientists, medical experts and ethicists to weigh in on what is often a controversial topic — stem cell research — is testimony to his belief that Senate Bill 148, the Saving the Cure Act, will shape that legacy.
Shafer’s bill is subtitled Keone’s Law to honor Keone Penn, a young Gwinnett man cured of sickle cell anemia by an experimental treatment involving an umbilical cord stem cell. The bill establishes a Newborn Umbilical Cord Blood Bank, or a network of banks, overseen by a 15-member state commission. Banks could be public or private. All state hospitals would be required by June 30, 2009, to inform pregnant women that they can donate postnatal tissue and fluid to the bank.
Shafer had essentially passed a bill last year, which is widely regarded as good public policy, but it fell victim to last-night logjam and a long, filibuster-like speech by state Sen. Vincent Fort (D-Atlanta), who was arguing an unrelated bill. It is on today’s Senate debate calendar. Impressive about Shafer’s push is the effort he has put into declaring and supporting the need to bank stem cells from “sources other than the human embryo and by processes which do not result in the destruction of human embryonic life.” That has been the controversy, of course, over embryonic stem cell research. Ethicists and others fear that ultimately the search for cures involving embryonic stem cells could involve the creation of human life for the purpose of destroying it. It’s a legitimate concern.
“Stem cell research in general has been hampered by the ethical controversy over embryonic stem cells which are presently derived in a process resulting in the destruction of the human embryo,” Shafer declares as a finding of fact. Yet, he goes on, “nondestructive stem cell research using stem cells from postnatal tissue and fluid has already resulted in treatments for anemia, leukemia, lymphoma and sickle cell disease” and are in clinical trials “for multiple sclerosis, Crohn’s disease, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus and spinal cord injury.”
In a letter to Shafer, the director of the Project on Bioethics and American Democracy in Washington, Yuval Levin, writes that:
“For too long, the stem cell debate has been distorted by those who advocate exclusively for research in which human embryos are destroyed. They insist that any attempt to find ways to advance stem-cell science without harming nascent life — and, thereby, to serve both science and ethics at once — is misguided.”
But as they attempt to make that case, Levin writes, “the ideal role for government in the stem cell field … is to encourage productive avenues of research that avert the ethical dilemmas surrounding stem cell research, rather than exacerbate the disputes that arise around those dilemmas.”
Establishing the bank for amniotic fluid and postnatal tissue advances stem cell science in an ethical way that is “a model of balanced and constructive public policy,” Levin concludes. His project is part of the Ethics and Public Policy Center in Washington.
Jennifer C. Lahl, national director of the Center for Bioethics and Culture Network, which has endorsed Shafer’s work, notes that “diseases like sickle cell anemia and many of the blood cancers like leukemia are being treated today using umbilical cord blood stem cells.”
She added: “What wonderful news for these children and their families!”
Physicians and researchers, asked to assess the claims made in the dozen findings of fact offer support. Dr. James Carroll, a professor and chief of the Child Neurology area of the Department of Neurology at the Children’s Medical Center of the Medical College of Georgia, notes that “there is a great need for banking umbilical cord stem cells.” He continued:
“While parents in higher socioeconomic groups can afford to ‘bank’ cells from children in their own families, and, thereby, make it more likely thier children will have a potential match, this option is not financially feasible for most. … The need for such a bank is even greater for minorities, because it is often more difficult to find a match for children in these groups.
“With 100,000 umbilical cords, we could match between 95 and 99 percent of the population,” said Shafer. Creating a bank or banks of that size from voluntary donations would likely take several years.
This really is a no-brainer. “It is unusual to come across an issue that clearly eclipses political party considerations,” said Dr. Carroll. “[Senate] Bill 148 is one of these issues.” Indeed it is.
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Comments
By Mid-South Philosopher
March 20, 2007 8:04 AM | Link to this
Good morning, Jim,
No one, with a modicum of sense, can argue against Senate Bill 148. Senator David J. Shafer (R-Duluth) is to be commended for this enlightened legislation. Anyone, who is still concerned about the ethical questions surrounding stem cell research, will have their discomforts soothed if they will go to the site (www.savingthecure.com) and read the information.
Now let’s see if the General Assembly can pass it without messing it up. Hold up on the sour mash, vodka, and gin for a few hours, boys and girls.
By jbmlaw
March 20, 2007 8:08 AM | Link to this
Good morning all. I will be interested in monitoring the posts of our leftist friends today. I am unfamiliar with Sen. Shafer’s bill, other than the points listed in the essay, but on the face there seems little to oppose. There is no suggestion of expenditure of public monies, there is no criminal sanction created. The only burden reflected in the statute is a requirement for Georgia hospitals to provide a notice to pregnant women (and the nature of the notice sounds like a de minimis pressure/urging, “Don’t you want to save the world by contributing your childbirth membranes after you don’t need them?”). The proposal is, at worst (from the pro-abortion perspective, where one always expects to find the worst) an alternative to grinding up dead babies. I guess there are two general purposes for the statute: (1) to ensure the legality of the process by granting state imprimatur, and (2) to facilitate the process with the “notice” provision. My analysis of legislation is always two-step (1) is it necessary?, and (2) is it desirable? Necessity is a close question – it probably is not – but there is nothing undesirable in the legislation, at least as presented here.
By Jeff
March 20, 2007 8:12 AM | Link to this
Mr. Wooten,
Great column today. I completely agree, and as is often the case, couldn’t have said it better.
By Jeff
March 20, 2007 8:16 AM | Link to this
MSP and jbm:
agreed. Always look forward to both of y’all’s posts, even on those occassions we disagree - at least y’all try to stay rational and polite!
By jbmlaw
March 20, 2007 8:20 AM | Link to this
Thanks Jeff, I am flattered to be in the intellectual company of the Philosopher.
By Rod
March 20, 2007 8:24 AM | Link to this
Sort of a boring “blog topic” today. Obviously, most of us agree with trying to save human life.
However, even when writing a mundane article like this, leave it to Wooten to interject an a*******inine coment. He pointed out that the bill was close last year: “but it fell victim to last-night logjam and a long, filibuster-like speech by state Sen. Vincent Fort (D-Atlanta), who was arguing an unrelated bill.” Key here Wooten-idiot, is an unrelated bill. So let’s see, if there’s a bill that you’re interested in, then the entire Senate is supposed to stop discussing everything else until the bill you’re interested in is passed? What a jerk.
Senator Fort was arguing a bill that he was interested in - and you want to criticize him for caring about a bill? You just threw in that stupid comment because he is a Democrat. Yeah, I guess you’d rather have a Republican who doesn’t care about anything just fall asleep in his chair, instead of arguing about a bill.
You’re so ineptly blinded by Republican/Democrat that you couldn’t care less about the good of society. You’re not a journalist, you’re just a bigot.
By KR
March 20, 2007 8:29 AM | Link to this
I’m in complete agreement with the bill. Supporting this bill should not in any way interfere with one’s personal position on embryonic stem cell research (whichever position yours is).
As to the requirement that hospitals inform the patient, well, that’s just another item in a long list of things we are required to do by government. As always, we will do what is needed.
When someone complains about the high cost of hospital visits, remember that this requirement is one of probably a hundred that we must comply with. Each one costs in terms of time for training of staff and actual staff time for compliance and documentation. Plus, there is the added cost of developing and maintaining the documentation. Finally, there is the cost of actually collecting, storing and transporting the donated organs/fluids.
By Curious Observer
March 20, 2007 8:30 AM | Link to this
Of course the Shafer bill is a good start. It avoids the tricky aspects of embryonic stem cell research. After all, if an umbilical cord is going to be thrown out anyway, why not use it for stem cell research?
We must never, of course, allow the use of fertilized eggs for medical purposes. They must stay frozen for years, just in case a woman needs one at, say, the ripe old age of 70. When they are no longer needed, they must be thrown out, not used for medical purposes. Real lives, after all, must be discarded, never used for the benefit of other lives. In this case, it is much better to destroy something than to use it for the good of humankind.
And besides, the Shafer bill provides yet another incentive for a woman to carry a pregnancy, wanted or unwanted, to term. Where is her sense of humanity if she’s unwilling to produce an umbilical cord for medical research? We’ll worry about medical care for that woman and her child later. After all, maybe Congress will bridge the funding gap for Peachcare, if Georgia needs money to promote fishing more than it does to fund Peachcare, and we all know that the compassionate conservatives will always be watchful for adequate funding for welfare.
Anyway, the woman made a Bad Choice and must take Personal Responsibility. She must have the baby, donate the umbilical cord, and stop being so inconvenient. Now where are my fishing lures?
By Hank
March 20, 2007 8:37 AM | Link to this
Well said, Curious.
Actually it’s probably a good bill. I did look up Wooten’s “Center for Bioethics and Democracy” on the web, and it’s pretty much another “George Bush is next to God” kind of outfit. It’s unethical, Jim, to present these Republican shill sites as some sort of scientific group. They’re not.
By harold
March 20, 2007 8:39 AM | Link to this
when will the crazy right wingers stop trying to destroy america?
ban alcohol!
ban abortions!
ban stem cell research!
ban all public transportation except for the most expensive one by far: roads
ban anything i am not personally comfortable with!
By CJ
March 20, 2007 8:44 AM | Link to this
Yuval Levin wrote, “…the stem cell debate has been distorted by those who advocate exclusively for research in which human embryos are destroyed.”
This statement is completely untrue. Scientists and advocates for embryonic stem cell research do not dismiss the real benefits that can be gained from adult stem cells (those found in umbilical cords, human organs, bone marrow, etcetera) as Wooten and Levin would have us believe. However, those who push for embryonic stem cell research do so because adult stem cells don’t hold nearly the promise that embryonic stem cells hold. Otherwise, why discuss them at all?
Jim also failed to point out that our society allows fertility clinics to destroy thousands of embryonic stem cells. It’s inconsistent to say that we don’t have a problem with embryonic stems cells being destroyed on behalf of families having difficulty getting pregnant, but we can’t destroy them for the purpose of curing disease. Why not use stem cells that would otherwise be discarded by fertility clinics? No cloning necessary.
One other thing — Jim quotes “bio-ethicists” in his article — but ethicists are those who look at different sides of an issue. Jim’s so-called ethicists are ideologues from the right who are advocates for their views of morality (Rick “holier than thou” Santorum has recently been named a Senior Fellow with Levin’s organization, and you can Google Jennifer Lahl’s organization to see what a crock that is.). No problem with advocating a point of view, but by referring to themselves bio-ethicists, they’re being dishonest about who they really are. Also, by quoting them, Jim is acting as an accomplice to such dishonesty.
By jbmlaw
March 20, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this
Dear KR @ 8:29, your critique of the bill, mild as it is, is completely valid. I wish I had not written so cavalierly about the legislative burdens placed on hospitals.
By jbmlaw
March 20, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this
Dear Passionate Rod @ 8:22, 8:23, and 8:24, you raise a good question, but one that I think will not elevate anyone’s perspective of Sen. Vincent Fort, as not all ideas are equally meritorious. Sen. Fort was preserving bureaucratic power:
“However, in the final minutes Sen. Vincent Fort (D-Atlanta) took the well of the Senate and filibustered a measure that would have revised certain provisions relating to the removal of new municipal corporations from county special districts for the provision of local government services. The filibuster went until midnight and prohibited the Senate from taking up any other measures.
“The result was the death of many good bills. A bill to offer tax incentives to Delta died as did SB 288 which would have included honors courses in calculations for HOPE scholarships and would have protected teachers from being required, coerced, intimidated, or disciplined in any manner to change the grade of a student.
“SB 596 which would have created the Newborn Umbilical Cord Blood Bank for postnatal tissue and fluid faced an agonizing death as did SB 881, the dispensing opticians bill, and HB 1390, the bill that would have provided prescriptive authority to optometrists.
“There are other bills that faced the ax of midnight sine die and those authors will have to wait until the next term of the General Assembly to reintroduce them.” http://www.peachpundit.com/?p=983
By zeke
March 20, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this
An excellent alternative to the liberal agenda on stem cell research! There is no evidence that embryonic stem cells offer any advantage over the blood or fluid cells! But, liberals and socialist want to continue to go down the road of moral decay and destruction of the human moral fiber of the US!
By DebbieDoRight
March 20, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this
But, liberals and socialist want to continue to go down the road of moral decay and destruction of the human moral fiber of the US!
Vicodin is on sale at your local pharmacist — please seek help.
Eat cloned meat!! Bush said it was o.k.!
By time for the truth
March 20, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this
I’m sure most pinko scum will have missed this gem of an article the other day!!
March 16, 2007 — OK, this is weird.
Since about, oh, Sept. 12, 2001, every writer, producer, director and suit in Hollywood has known one sure rule: Don’t make fun of our so-called “enemies.”
Don’t stereotype them as bad guys. Don’t mock their beliefs. Don’t even mention their names. And for heaven’s sake, don’t make them mad.
Instead, try to understand them. Celebrate their diversity. And realize that - in a world where black is really white, up is really down, an attack is really self-defense and self-defense is really a provocation - we are actually the enemy.
Out went any script that ascribed anything but the purest of motives to Arabs, Iranians and Muslims. Back came everybody’s favorite villains: ex- and neo-Nazis (I haven’t met any, but I hear they’re everywhere) and crazed Christian fundamentalists, lurking out there in flyover country, itching to pull the triggers to establish a theocracy in a country we all know perfectly well was founded by unarmed vegetarian multicultural atheists.
So we make films like “Kingdom of Heaven,” in which the Christian ruler of Jerusalem becomes a hero by surrendering the Holy Land to the noble Saladin.
But now “300” has got the whole town buzzing. Graphic novelist Frank Miller, director Zack Snyder and a couple of other writers pulled in $74 million last weekend with a gory retelling of the Spartans’ defense at Thermopylae, a handful of brave warriors standing up against the limitless central-Asian hordes - iron men vs. effeminate oriental voluptuaries; patriots against robotic slaves.
The Hollwood talk isn’t just about the movie’s first-weekend grosses. Is it an ode to Riefenstahlian fascist militarism? A thinly veiled attack on Bush’s war-mongering? Or something else?
The Iranians sure didn’t like it. “American cultural officials thought they could get mental satisfaction by plundering Iran’s historic past and insulting this civilization,” said Javad Shamqadri, the cultural adviser to Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. “Following the Islamic Revolution in Iran, Hollywood and cultural authorities in the U.S. initiated studies to figure out how to attack Iranian culture. Certainly, the recent movie is a product of such studies.”
Shows what you know, buddy. The only studies Hollywood ever initiates are when movies like “300” open unexpectedly big and execs have to interrupt their weekends to get 10 scripts just like it on their desks by Monday morning and in production by Friday afternoon.
Still, something strange is going on: When, early in the film, a sneering Persian emissary insults King Leonidas’ hot wife, threatens the kingdom and rages about “blasphemy,” the king kicks him down a bottomless well. And yet nobody in Sparta asks, “Why do they hate us?” and seeks to find common ground with the Persians on their doorstep. Why not?
The Spartans mock the god-king Xerxes (whose traveling throne resembles a particularly louche Brazilian gay-pride carnival float); mow down his armored “immortal” holy warriors while clad in nothing but red cloaks, loincloths and sandals - and generally give their last full measure to defend Greek civilization against superstition and tyranny.
Where are the Spartan voices raised in protest against this blatant homo- phobia, xenophobia and racism?
The only way this bunch of refugees from a Village People show can whup our heroes is by dangling some dubious hookers in front of a horny hunchback who makes Quasimodo look like Tom Cruise, and by bribing a corrupt legislator to tie up reinforcements with various legalistic maneuvers. When the queen finally kills the councilor, the others call him a “traitor.” Isn’t that both blaming the victim and questioning his patriotism?
You’d think “300” was a metaphor for something …
I heard the other day that one of the creators of this film is … yes, a closet conservative. Well, now he’s a rich closet conservative.
So that noise you heard blowing from the west this week was hundreds of writers from Playa del Rey to Santa Barbara, sticking their fingers in the air to see if the wind’s suddenly shifted, wondering if we can shelve our metrosexual “Syriana” and “Babel” knockoffs and conjure up some good old-fashioned “men of the West” material.
Because the dirty little secret is, we used to write these movies all the time. Impossible odds. Quixotic causes. Death before surrender. Real all-American stuff, in which our heroes stood up for God and country and defending Princess Leia and getting back home to see their wives and children, with their shields or on them.
And the dirtier little secret is: We loved writing them.
Even a blacklisted communist like Carl Foreman came up with “High Noon,” in which a lone Gary Cooper defends a town full of ungrateful, carping yellowbellies and then throws away his badge in disgust at their cowardice.
But then came psychiatrists and psychologists and Ritalin and global warming and racism and sexism and homophobia and the enlightened among us said the hell with John Wayne and Gary Cooper. Hollywood became one big Agatha Christie novel in the last chapter - you know, where the survivors gather in the drawing room and realize: The killer must be one of us!
But now, I’m starting to wonder.
Starting to wonder if celebrating diversity is getting us anywhere when the Iranians think we’re insulting their civilization by making King Xerxes a seven-foot-tall club queen.
Starting to wonder if a movie that has no stars, the look and feel of a video game, and the moral code of the United States Marine Corps might have something to say, even to audiences in New York and L.A.
But most of all, I’m starting to wonder what it might feel like to be the good guy.
David Kahane is a nom de cyber for a writer in Hollywood. Adapted from National Review Online.
By buck
March 20, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this
Why can’t stem cell research be left to a more free market system. Let scientists use the cell type that will produce the most success. If umbilical cord stem cells are just as useful and have as much potential, then excess embryos could still be flushed down the toilet without tampering from pointy-head scientists.
By Lauren
March 20, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this
“There is no evidence that embryonic stem cells offer any advantage over the blood or fluid cells”
This, of course, is a lie. Whether or not embryonic stem cells offer advantages over adult stem cells is not a matter of opinion to be debated among ideologues — it’s a matter of science.
Sorry zeke, but not liking a fact doesn’t make it any less true.
By Rod
March 20, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this
Sorry about my triple post earlier - didn’t mean to do that, just couldn’t get it to accept.
By Van
March 20, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this
buck,
It is a free market research, any lab can experiment with any type of stem cell, it is only the state or federal funding that is the sticking point.
By Josh
March 20, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this
I think it’s very important to fund medical research, which is why I’m a strong supporter of adult stem cell research as opposed to embryonic stem cell research. Adult stem cell (ASC) research has already successfully treated or cured more than 70 diseases and conditions, including some “miracle cures” of those who were previously paralyzed. Further, it avoids tissue-rejection problems. ASCs have already successfully developed into nerve, brain, and heart tissue, thought to be the hardest tissues to replicate; in fact, scientists’ opinion of the overall pluripotency of ASCs, especially from bone marrow, has been upgraded substantially (American Society of Hematology, December 12, 2005, press release). And new sources of adult stem cells, some with the same pluripotency and self-renewability of ESCs, are being discovered all the time. The logic is simple: If a non-destructive option exists and has proven successful, isn’t it better than one that is destructive, unpredictable, and as yet unsuccessful?
By jbmlaw
March 20, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this
Dear TFTT @ 9:27, what a great article! Thanks.
Dear Buck @ 9:27, if I follow your argument, we should urge inner-city 15 year-old girls to sell their fetuses to the highest bidder, to facilitate capital formation in the underclass? I suppose mere dismemberment and disposition of human remains is the contemporary mindset; in a gentler time we gave dead babies a good Christian burial. I think Zeke was on target @ 9:23.
By time for the truth
March 20, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this
Now even the far lefties at the Hate Israel and America Lefty Independent are panicking HUGE SMIRK … the good news for the rest of us is that these days smoking the ultimate postmodern formulation of cannabis (which undeniably is predominantly - but not totally a liberal thang) is seriously bad for your health, especially your mental health.
This much belated, yet deeply ironic in a most satisfying way medical honesty, now published in The Lancet - the definitive UK medical journal - clearly goes some way in explaining just why so many lefties have Bush derangment syndrome and are mentally sick, afflicted by the moral cancer of liberalism and hate America poison - as so many undeniably are!!
It seems many Bush hating pothead pixies have for many years now been gleefully imbibing levels of THC 25 times greater than even a decade or so ago.
So happily many of these pathetic stoned slackers and cut and run appeaser hippie types are now likely on their way to the nut house … couldn’t happen to a more deserving, nastier bunch!!
20 March 2007 09:15 Home > News > UK > Health Medical Cannabis: An apology In 1997, this newspaper launched a campaign to decriminalise the drug. If only we had known then what we can reveal today… By Jonathan Owen Published: 18 March 2007 Record numbers of teenagers are requiring drug treatment as a result of smoking skunk, the highly potent cannabis strain that is 25 times stronger than resin sold a decade ago.
More than 22,000 people were treated last year for cannabis addiction - and almost half of those affected were under 18. With doctors and drugs experts warning that skunk can be as damaging as cocaine and heroin, leading to mental health problems and psychosis for thousands of teenagers, The Independent on Sunday has today reversed its landmark campaign for cannabis use to be decriminalised.
A decade after this newspaper’s stance culminated in a 16,000-strong pro-cannabis march to London’s Hyde Park - and was credited with forcing the Government to downgrade the legal status of cannabis to class C - an IoS editorial states that there is growing proof that skunk causes mental illness and psychosis.
The decision comes as statistics from the NHS National Treatment Agency show that the number of young people in treatment almost doubled from about 5,000 in 2005 to 9,600 in 2006, and that 13,000 adults also needed treatment.
The skunk smoked by the majority of young Britons bears no relation to traditional cannabis resin - with a 25-fold increase in the amount of the main psychoactive ingredient, tetrahydrocannabidinol (THC), typically found in the early 1990s. New research being published in this week’s Lancet will show how cannabis is more dangerous than LSD and ecstasy. Experts analysed 20 substances for addictiveness, social harm and physical damage. The results will increase the pressure on the Government to have a full debate on drugs, and a new independent UK drug policy commission being launched next month will call for a rethink on the issue.
The findings last night reignited the debate about cannabis use, with a growing number of specialists saying that the drug bears no relation to the substance most law-makers would recognise. Professor Colin Blakemore, chief of the Medical Research Council, who backed our original campaign for cannabis to be decriminalised, has also changed his mind.
He said: “The link between cannabis and psychosis is quite clear now; it wasn’t 10 years ago.”
Many medical specialists agree that the debate has changed. Robin Murray, professor of psychiatry at London’s Institute of Psychiatry, estimates that at least 25,000 of the 250,000 schizophrenics in the UK could have avoided the illness if they had not used cannabis. “The number of people taking cannabis may not be rising, but what people are taking is much more powerful, so there is a question of whether a few years on we may see more people getting ill as a consequence of that.”
“Society has seriously underestimated how dangerous cannabis really is,” said Professor Neil McKeganey, from Glasgow University’s Centre for Drug Misuse Research. “We could well see over the next 10 years increasing numbers of young people in serious difficulties.”
By Jack
March 20, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this
I love the smell of vitrol in the morning.
By jbmlaw
March 20, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this
Dear TFTT @ 9:46, your pre-article argument is intriguing: is the modern extreme-leftist screed a result of innocent self-induced brain damage? If we are careful to distinguish rational collectivists (e.g., disciples of John Rawls) from the Deaniacs and MoveOn/Kos disciples, I would love to see some controlled research on the possibility.
By deegee
March 20, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this
Here is what we know about Sen. David Shafer as posted on his website:
David is a 38-year-old husband and father who lives, works and worships in Gwinnett County. He and his wife Lee live in Duluth with David’s 11-year-old stepson, J.W., and their 2 year old daughter, Ellie. David owns a corporate public relations firm called The Strategies Company. Lee practices law, and she and David share office space in Duluth. The Shafers worship at Pleasant Hill Presbyterian Church.
So we get that he is an avid worshipper but we don’t see anything in his background that would suggest that he is a subject matter expert on stem cell research. While not being an expert on the subject either, I don’t see anything wrong with the legislation proposed as the umbilical cord stem cells seem to be a cure for some diseases. However, there is nothing to suggest that this method will provide a cure for two very debilitating diseases, Parkinson’s and ALS.
My suspicion is that the motivation behind this legislation is to hamper embryonic stem cell research by making conservative press headlines. The religious right will claim that human embryonic stem cells are unecessary because umbilical cord cells are all we need. It sounds plausible on the surface. Most people will not scratch below the surface.
By Curious Observer
March 20, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this
Alas, poor TFTT must return to the asylum for yet another overhaul.
By getalife
March 20, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this
Jim wrote this?
I am shocked, shocked I said.
GFY(Good For You) Jim.
I agree.
By Dennis
March 20, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
By DebbieDoRight March 20, 2007 9:26 AM. “But, liberals and socialist want to continue to go down the road of moral decay and destruction of the human moral fiber of the US!”
If we’re all born sinners, we might as well enjoy the sin.
You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.
By time for the truth
March 20, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
So in the unremitting hedonistic IF IT FEELS RIGHT DO IT search for the elusive “perfect hippie high” the often thuggish, anti-globalist pothead pixies et al have seemingly hit a massive wall of self harm. John Lenin (note deliberate spelling) might just have sung an acid house remix version of song about that called Instant Karma’s (Gonna Get You). Eric Cartman would just say “sweet”.
And the mohammedans - fascists and non-fascists - fatalistically call it inshallah.
By Jokeeer
March 20, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this
FINALLY, a cause of my diagnosis. All without skunk even. Thanks, TFTT.
By time for the truth
March 20, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this
How fabulously predicktable … it seems the vainglorious anal obsessive paedophile id stealing stalker @ 10.14am has been at the schizophrenia inducing hookah/bong/chillum earlier than usual this morning.
Time to play a snippet of King Crimson’s 21st Century Schizoid Man in its ‘maleficious’ honour!!
By SusieHomeMaker
March 20, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this
Dennis: I don’t think Debbie DR said that; I think it came from someone else.
By Dennis
March 20, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this
By SusieHomeMaker March 20, 2007 10:37 AM “Dennis: I don’t think Debbie DR said that; I think it came from someone else.”
OK. I just highlighted the post in the same manner as I did yours here. But if that is a wrong quote, then thanks and my apology to Debbie DR.
Got to add, Wooten sounds like a liberal today.
You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.
By harold
March 20, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this
HECK OF A JOB, GONZALES, HECK OF A JOB!
By HAROLD
March 20, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this
Why you wanna blame Vincent Fort?
Why not blame the dummies who put off the bill for so long that it didnt come up until the last day?
everybody knows how the last day goes.
but anyway
a stem cells or three is not a human life. human life is defined by connections. if a scientist makes a few cells in a test tube, aint no connections. that aint a human life. its just a few cells. to claim anythign else is to get in to a bunch of wacko religious gobbledygook that has no place in science or government
By HAROLD
March 20, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this
harold wonders if wooten musta got diagnosed with the sickle cell or somethin’
sorry to hear it woot, that’s bad news
By jbmlaw
March 20, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this
Dear DeeGee @ 10:20, assume hypothetically that Sen. Shafer’s legislation is motivated by a purely evil (from your view) intention; what difference does your argument make? If it is a good law, should it not be passed? Certainly I would argue that a bad law should be rejected even if it comes from good intentions. Your argument seems to be that “the good is the enemy of the perfect.”
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
March 20, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this
Hi Jim,
A bit off topic, but there is a Atlant Civic League Transportation Town Hall Meeting tomorrow night at Georgia Public Broadcasting.
Why don’t you try to attend? I know it’s not a Libertarian think tank meeting behind closed doors, but us regular folks like to air our opinions from time to time too.
I’m sure that the attendees would be interested to hear about tunnels under the city and toll lanes.
By time for the truth
March 20, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this
jbm
It is becoming glaringly apparent that the corrosive mental disease that is liberalism and its associated sociopathic, wholly self absorbed/self indulgent moral relativism and “no consequences please because I’m OH SO special” approach to life is happily and hilariously finally beginning to bite the extreme leftists very hard.
Narcotics of various types have always been abused recreationally and for religious reasons. But these trendy designer drugs with their powerful formulations are quietly turning out to be something the blinkered “lets drop a tab” hippies clearly didn’t foresee. Rawls’ pinko theory of social justice and his shrill anti-American WW2 bollocks merely shows us again that liberalism has been metastasising for decades. Maybe this cannabis thang is just a highly amusing example of ‘distributive justice’ we can ALL enjoy!!
I agree - it would be very entertaining and productive to see some research done … maybe we can get the ghost of Timothy Leary to retrospectively inform us how right or wrong he was!!
Naturally I’m just enjoying LMFAO about this!!
By time for the truth
March 20, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this
I say … how jolly sporting of the anal obsessive paedophile stalker to use my witty and apposite forum names … like curious peeping tom.
this oedipus complexed dickweed sure is paying close attention to its conservative betters!!
can we please also jolly soon smirk our way through an equally thoughtful post for leftist vermin like rednekkks NAMBLA and getamaggotbrain!!
By deegee
March 20, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this
jbmlaw, I said that on the surface the law seems to be okay. I questioned the motivations of Shafer. He claims that “Stem cell research in general has been hampered by the ethical controversy over embryonic stem cells which are presently derived in a process resulting in the destruction of the human embryo,” I feel that he conversely wants human embryo stem cell research to be hampered and will use the success of umbilical cord stem cell treatment to serve as the foundation of his argument.
By jm
March 20, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this
jbmlaw@9:11 - Maybe if they had not wasted so much time on Sunday alcohol sales some of those bills could have been up for vote.
time for the truth@9:27 - I have not seen 300 yet but I wonder if it accurately depicts the homosexual relations prevalent in Sparta among the military (wonder how General Pace would deal with that).
By Pope rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda I
March 20, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this
If we are going to harvest human stem cells, let’s do it somewhere other than Georgia.
Somewhere where incest and genetic diseases are not so prevalent.
By Barbara
March 20, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this
Hi Jim. As one opposed to embryonic stem cell research, I think I could totally get behind this bill. I will admit, that, like jbm, I am not completely familiar with the bill, but it looks reasonable on the surface.
My big concern is with the “private or public” donations. I worry that it may become a matter of selling your afterbirth to the highest bidder. I think I would be more supportive if there wasn’t a “private” component. This of course is an early thought, so I reserve the right to change my mind, but it seems a concern to me as I first ponder this proposal. Another option I see is that families might have babies simply to donate the afterbirth to Aunt Suzie or someone. I wouldn’t support that at all…..
By time for the truth
March 20, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this
jm
given that Socrates was a life long VT and MA type child molestor, and was eventually executed in Ancient Greece for this … and PLato was at the very least a bit queer it should come as no surprise that the Spartan queers were queer. No one says that queers do not have some uses. In this instance 300 “Greek” poofs did something brave and heroic. But George Michael, Liberace, Girl George, Rock Hudson, Bwarney Fwank et al are hardly the heroic types!!
General Pace simply selflessly stated the facts as he saw them!! Happily the world has changed in many ways for the better since the days of Sparta!!
By Redneck Convert
March 20, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this
I’m desgusted. After we already throwed away the after birth of little Sonny Zell George now they are going to make it worth some money.
Sorry I can’t stay long. I’m in the middle of getting my presidential campaign going and it don’t help none they won’t let me put my stickers on my beer truck. I’m keeping my eye on the post office for all the money you folks will be sending. I never heard of a broke presidential candadate after a campaign and I know you folks won’t let me be the first.
Just remember: 1. All illegals go into the army and our own folk come home. 2. The death penalty for everybody arrested. 3. Big tax cuts for everybody. Send your money to Redneck Convert for President, c/o Simpsons Trailer Park, Dawsonville, GA. Thanking you for your support.
By @@
March 20, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this
Hi Ya’ Jim, just dropping in for a quick looksee, and then off to work. I’ll check on that SB 148, Saving the Cure Act when I get home.
But at a glance, it appears as though adults can bank of a kid’s snot.
Gotcha.
I’ve got a virtual “goldmine” stemming from my job.
Early Education.
By Heed
March 20, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this
Liberals have taken a supportive stand on the belief that global warming is real and will be disastrous for mankind if not checked. Liberals have also been known to profess the belief that human life is no more valuable than any other form of life on Earth. Embryonic stem cell supporters tend to be liberal as well. Could it be that their support for the latter is a first step towards a liberal saving back up measure in the event worse-comes-to-worse with global warming? Do the words Soylent Green mean ring any bells?
By Johnson
March 20, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this
Happily the world has changed in many ways for the better since the days of Sparta!!
Sounds like liberals are good for something after all.
By deegee
March 20, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this
Wow, Redneck. I live close to the Dawson County line and I read the local news. If you give the death penalty to everybody arrested eventually you are going to lose your base. You need to get on board with some of those high-priced political consultants if you want to get elected. They’ll get you all the money you want after they take their cut.
By time for the truth
March 20, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this
Sounds like liberals are good for something after all.
errr … well only really for laughing at mercilessly, most socially taboo aversion therapies and easy targets for conservatives to say “I told you so” in Cable News TV debates!!
By Lord Doom
March 20, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this
The reason homocrats want to support stem cell research is so they can implement cloning. That way they can f**tize the entire world. They want the planet earth to be populated by homo men so that their perverted kingdom is established.
By Lord Doom(the real Doom)
March 20, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this
Getalife,
You obviously must be a homosexual, because every time Doom makes a comment, you nickjack me. Every one here knows the deal so you might as well come on out of the closet.
By Lord Doom
March 20, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this
Not Doom at 12:38.
By time for the truth
March 20, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this
its funny in a queer sort of way how supposed pinko kool aid drinking leftist scum ALWAYS use homo abuse on here. if they used the same sort of homo filth at leftist liberal gatherings they would be vilified and shunned by other slightly less hypocritical leftist scum who dont like mincing queers being the butt of jokes (mildly clever pun intended).
By Lord Doom
March 20, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this
TFTT,
Good point. It’s almost like blacks using the ‘N’ word.
By Lord Doom
March 20, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this
Jim Wooten,
This blog is dead. Why don’t you discuss something that we are interested in? Don’t just create a blog so you can say,”I created a blog today!” Stay with the hot button issues please.
By liberalextremist
March 20, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this
TFTT, since you are such a homophobe, why don’t you berate your king’s daughter, Mary Cheney. She’s a lesbian. I guess that you include her in your vile and senseless verbal attacks on homosexuals. You are a complete J@ck@$$!!!!
By Lord Doom
March 20, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this
Wooten,
A hot button topic would be my favorite glory hole in the Piedmont Park bathroom. The service that Doom receives there is “hot”.
By getalife
March 20, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this
Its not me idiot doom.
TFTT,
Methinks you protest too much about gays.
You must be an illegal, gay, escaped mental patient, wanker.
Babs,
Its not about you. They should not burn the 100,000 umbilical cords because of your concerns.
Who are you to raise your finger
As far as wingnuts and ethics, give it a rest. Your ethics has been exposed by your hate party. There are none.
Geez.
By Jim Wooten
March 20, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this
Lord Doom,you’re free to suggest blog topics. Meanwhile, for the record, the bill that is today’s topic passed the Senate 39-15 and now goes to the House.
By Lord Doom
March 20, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this
The all powerful Doom has successfully destroyed this blog. All hail Doom!
On to the glory hole!
By time for the truth
March 20, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this
@ queerliberalnancyboyextremist
I am NOT a “homophobe” - that’s simply another worthless, pathetic micky mouse made up word from you sad leftie panderers. ‘homo’ means your own kind - i.e. humans … not limp wristed queers (or most liberals) bubbaturd!! ‘phobic’ is what ALL true clear thinking Americans feel about lefties … although clearly ONLY the viscerally dislike/loather ‘meaning’.
It sure is fun though (even after all this time) getting some of you LITERALLY homo loving lefties to bite!!
I see the greasy hate America leftist Cuban illegal immigrant getamaggotbrain is trying to hit on me again. NOT INTERESTED maggotbrain … unlike you queer loving lefties I have NO interest in swishing, mincing poofs. Try Bwarney Fwank … he’ll buy you a slimy hotdog for lunch!!
By Lord Doom
March 20, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this
Aha! Doom knew it all along that it has been TFTT on the other side of my glory hole at Piedmont Park!
Where did you learn such a refined technique, TFTT?
By time for the truth
March 20, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this
as usual the lefties have dragged this blog down into the gutter either by posting unprovoked filthy homo abuse or by puking up mindless limp wristed pandering defence of homos - Spartan or non-Spartan - where NONE is needed!!
harold needs to immediately apologise to Jim for being so horrid and beastly earlier!!
By jbmlaw
March 20, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
Dr. Sowell has an unusual essay today: an analysis of “talk radio” in which his ideas translate clearly into an analysis of what works (and what does not) on this daily blog. http://www.townhall.com/columnists/column.aspx?UrlTitle=talk_shows&ns=ThomasSowell&dt=03/20/2007&page=full&comments=true
By Lord Doom
March 20, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this
TFTT,
It all makes sense now. That technique you used on Doom was called the Spartan. That explains the ferocious, yet sensual nature of that glory hole experience.
Doom is becoming keen on the British glory hole tactics!
By Barbara
March 20, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this
Thanks getlost. You can take a legitimate heart-felt concern for others and turn it into “it’s not about you…” You sure are a bitter old man. I’ll say a prayer for you babe!
By time for the truth
March 20, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this
MORE CRIMINAL LIBERAL HATE!!
This is how leftist fascists behave!! Thugs and criminal cowards with NO respect for anyone else’s views, even elected officials!!
Who ever did this should be jailed for at least 10 years and then forcibly deported!!
http://www.wxyz.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=ce4e295f-c8b4-41e2-9e66-f676f25b536a
By jbmlaw
March 20, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this
Dear TFTT @ 3:32, I think it was ParkRidge47.
By getalife
March 20, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this
“White House Testimony Offer: Unsworn, Private, No Transcript Allowed”
They think they are still dealing with the rubber stamp Specter.
Nope, they are dealing with the one cheney (my leg hurts whaaaa) told to GFY.
Subpoena the lying liars. Under oath, with a transcript in an open hearing. Period.
By Lord Doom
March 20, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this
Doom issues a decree hearby ordering TFTT to be at the Piedmont Park glory hole by 6pm where Lord Doom shall await his arrival on the other side of the wall!
By Nail it
March 20, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this
“White House Testimony Offer: Unsworn, Private, No Transcript Allowed”
You mean like Bush & Cheney stipulated when they finally, under great pressure, after everyone else had cooperated, under protest, and after stalling extensively, agreed to “testify” for the 9-11 Commission?
By jm
March 20, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this
well, the bill as described by Mr. Wooten sounds relatively benign. I wonder how it will be implemented and in what manner pregnant women are informed of this (and other options) relating to their pregnancy.
By deegee
March 20, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this
jbmlaw, I started to read the editorial by Sowell where he expresses his disappointment in the lack of candor and debate on most TV and radio talk shows such as “Meet the Press”. He laments that he has never heard anyone express a change of opinion as a result of the debate and he is sorry that the shows seem to start out and end with the same agenda. He had me laughing when he said that he only listens to Limbaugh on the radio. Good Lord, where can you find a more pompous, arrogant, self-aggrandizing talk show host with an agenda?
By Lord Doom
March 20, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this
Doom has destroyed this blog. Victory for Doom!
Doom-1 Wooten-0 TFTT-lucky to be Doom’s glory hole partner
By Dan
March 20, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this
Vincent Fort was one of the 15 senators who voted against the bill. David Adelman tried to add embryo destructive research to the bill, and when that failed, half of the Democrats voted against it.
It is amazing the Democrats will only support research if it includes embryo destruction.
By AntiBozo
March 21, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this
Lord Doom smells like a doggy boy.