Thinking Right

By Jeff

February 21, 2007 8:10 AM | Link to this

Amen!!

By Mid-South Philosopher

February 21, 2007 8:13 AM | Link to this

Good morning, Jim,

Georgia State Senate President Pro Temp Eric Johnson (R- Savannah) is exhibiting the reactionary type of thinking that plays into the hands of the liberals and makes true conservatives look like Neanderthals. This has to do with his position on Senate Bill 37 that would allow judges to exercise (judgment) in cases of sexual crimes that involve individuals of youthful ages.

Now, for Senator Johnson and other mentally deficient individuals (politicians or otherwise), it may surprise you to know that there is a difference between an 18 year old having consensual sex with a 15 year old and a 50 year old having consensual sex with that same 15 year old! Both are wrong…but there is a difference!

Let the judges, “judge” and administer the appropriate consequence in each case.

Johnson’s position is typical of marginally intelligent politicians. Their solution to a serious problem is to enact a sweeping law that poorly thought out, poorly constructed, and grossly unfair when applied universally with no room for “judgment.”

We should challenge Johnson and the other geniuses in the General Assembly to use their intellects (provided they can find them) to create a law that will allow for “appropriate” punishment for the crime and do “justice.”

Of course, “Surprise, surprise!”

Most people are unaware that the courts are NOT set up to do JUSTICE!

Courts are set up to administer the LAW. If “justice” is served, it is just a positive, albeit accidental, happenstance.

So long as we have inept politicians like Johnson in office, things will not change.

By Jim Wooten

February 21, 2007 8:22 AM | Link to this

Morning Jeff, Philosopher and others to come. Philosopher, I think you’re reading Senator Johnson wrong. I’m not at the office, but when I get there, I’ll try to find and link an op-ed he’s written on the issue or, absent that, either post the text here (depending on the length) or forward it to you. It’ll not change your mind, I’m sure, but will enable him to speak for himself.

By Van

February 21, 2007 8:32 AM | Link to this

Young conservatives, who would have thought.

I guess the secularists and the socialists are going to be squeezed out of politics. That is if the young conservatives don’t let it go to their head.

By Peyton Walters

February 21, 2007 9:09 AM | Link to this

Wasn’t Charlise Byrd an FBI agent who cracked the Buffalo Bill serial killer case with the help of Hannibal Lechter?

By Time for the truth

February 21, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this

no that was clarice starling you bollocks chewing filthy nambla peeping tom spongebob watching cretin.

by the way J. Edar Hoover’s remains and I were going to take a stroll this morning, but the weather is drizzly. So I’ll just sit on him and type drivel as usual.

By J. Edgar Hoover's remains

February 21, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this

Somebody get me away from this crazy woman! PLEASE!

By Curious Observer

February 21, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

Yes, it is great to know that these young neocons exist and that there is a place in this state for retards.

Thanks to them, Georgia’s future is secure. We can continue to stick needles in the veins of all who offend us, to lock up 17-year-olds who have sex with 15-year-olds, and to maintain our proud place as 49th in the nation in education (motto: WE’RE NOT LAST!)We can continue to read news stories of Georgians who have sex with horses and other forms of livestock, thanks to our backward views of sexuality. We can also continue to deprive poor children of access to healthcare.

Yes, it is wonderful to know that redneckism in Georgia will not perish from our great state. We have our great young conservatives to carry on our wonderful traditions. To borrow a phrase from God Hates Trash, our stumpbroke rednecks can continue to push us back to the 18th Century until we can pre-date the Constitution and then break off from the country to form our own.

By time for the truth

February 21, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this

I must indeed congratulate myself on a JOB WELL DONE!! Before yours truly booted his new HP this glorious morning, the anal id stalking afterbirth pathetically attempted to strike. Fortunately this leftist feckpig exposed his intellectual inferiority by failing to put on a convincing show through dishonestly mimicking my superior prose and wit.

Now it’s time for this cretinous liberal pond scum to slither back into his abyssmal hole of dilusional marxist afterbirth wankers.

It is quite the pity that the Katrina refugees that crawled here to Georgia were black parasites rather than being in the mold of Byrd. The glorious piece of legislation he proffers shall do more than enough to rid our state of programs designed for lazy black leeches and the yankee pond scum who have sullened the good intentions of Georgians.

By Amy

February 21, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this

By Van

February 21, 2007 08:32 AM | Link to this

Young conservatives, who would have thought.

I guess the secularists and the socialists are going to be squeezed out of politics. That is if the young conservatives don’t let it go to their head.

It seems Van, that most signs point to the right wing of the republican party and their wacky agenda as being the group squeezed out of politics. Check your tea leaves again Van. If that fails just reference the elections of 06. Then come back and tell us all who is being squeezed out.

By abc

February 21, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

Charlice Byrd lives in my neighborhood. She’s far from young; her and her husband, ex-chair of the Cherokee County Commission, are muckrakers and purveyors of dirty tricks. Their mudslinging knows no bounds.

She came up to me once while I was working in the yard, working a campaign. She thought I was hired help — I was wearing my grubbies, not looking the part that she would expect in an upscale neighborhood. I consider her a snob, commonplace in Towne Lake.

By More evidence of your insanity

February 21, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

HP sucks. But I guess at the asylum they have to watch their pennies.

By Van

February 21, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

Amy,

Noticed I did not say republican or right wing - I said conservatives. That could mean someone like Leiberman but not McCain.

I do enjoy the lefties rabid responses though.

I do believe that the socialistic trends are going to change and I can’t wait.

By jm

February 21, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

Caps on spending are great but until you put a cap on the services that people want or demand (or are promised by politicians trying to get elected/re-elected) you are just whistling in the wind. Perfect example are those silly “one/two/three” strikes you’re out sentencing guidelines. They make a great soundbite and nobody wants to be seen as “soft on crime”. Of course, no one mentions the fixed costs of housing and taking care of the large influx of inmates this creates. Then again, I guess you could argue for all the “prison” jobs created.

Another reason why Georgia is #49 in education but #5 in prison size. Personally, I would like to see those numbers reversed.

By Amy

February 21, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

Thanks for the clarification Van. Didn’t mean to misrepresent what you said. Now I get your drift.

By Van

February 21, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

jm,

“Georgia is #49 in education but #5 in prison size.”

I do not see a direct connection between these two items. Yes, one usually thinks of convicted criminals as not being the brightest bulb in the pack, but is that from a poor education or a chemically altered view of reality?

I have little problem with people being convicted of a crime and going to jail, the more of them off the streets the better.

If Georgia had control of the education system, we might have better results, but between the greedy politicians, dependence on Washington funding and unions - doesn’t look good for the next few generations of school kids.

By Redneck Convert

February 21, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

Well, it just ain’t as intresting what with TFTT out walking with J. Edgar Hoover’s body and just saying bullocks to everybody here.

I’m glad to see the young conservatives making a name for theirselfs. Us people up at Billy Bob’s just might make them all Ornery Rednecks and invite them for a free PBR. We got to keep the libruls and Those People under control. Everything wrong with this state is their fault. If we just got things back to where we were in my daddy’s day we would be just fine.

If they are looking for things to sunset, I say go after the welfare programs and Peachcare and the tree huggers and other things that want to ruin our way of life. You can’t even pour a few gallons of used oil down the drane without getting into trouble. And Those People are just lining up to get their hand on my billfold.

Well, I guess its bollocks to TFTT too. I hope he gets mugged on his walk and they steal J. Edgar Hoover’s body from him. Maybe after Wooten gets layed off at the AJC he can join him on the walk and they both can get mugged. Its a sad life when all you got to do with your time is go down to the capital and watch people talk and pick out which young people was raised right.

By getalife

February 21, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

Bush offered a budget that offers $32.7 billion in tax cuts to the Wal-Mart family alone, while cutting $28 billion from Medicaid.

Cox family (Cox cable TV) receives $9.7 billion tax break while education would get $1.5 billion in cuts

…the family of former Exxon/Mobil CEO Lee Raymond, who received a $400 million retirement package, would receive about $164 million in tax breaks.

Compare that to the Commodity Supplemental Food Program, which Bush proposes be completely eliminated, at a savings of $108 million over ten years.

Nice work wingnuts.

By JoeD

February 21, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

Maybe we can get the cavemen from the Progressive commercials to come here and run the state. With concealed weapons in cars, restrictions on abortions, stagnant education, continued support of W and his disaster, laws “protecting” our right to say Merry Christmas, the sex laws noted above and other shining examples of regressionism, they would fit in perfectly in the legislature and as Sonny’s eventual replacement.

By Barbara

February 21, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

Jim, I’m not quite ready to sing Charlise’s praises just yet. I actually live in her district. I checked out her website, thanks to your link, and it is quite impressive, so perhaps I’ll consider the bigger picture. However, right now I’m still getting over her very nasty campaigns and the crooked land deal she and her husband brokered with a little “insider information”. I will admit I don’t know all of the details, and I’d like to learn more about it, but I certainly witnessed her nasty campaigning and outright lies against her competitor. And for the record, I wasn’t a fan of the competitor either; just pointing out that she plays dirty and is definitely in politics for her own personal gain.

By Laurie

February 21, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

Van wrote “Georgia is #49 in education but #5 in prison size. I do not see a direct connection between these two items.”

Unfortunately, Van’s inability or stubborn refusal to connect the dots is indicative of most of my fellow Georgians.

God help us.

By jm

February 21, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Van@10:46 - Here is one (and possibly the only) connection for you. Money being spent on prisons is money not being spent on education (or roads or infrastructure or …).

By Jim's a Cherry Picker

February 21, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

Barbara,

You’re forgetting a few things:

ALL Republicans and their ideas are good; ALL Democrats and their ideas are bad.

Jim’s analtical capabilities pretty much stop there. Whatever campaign tactics that Mrs. Byrd had to engage in to achieve victory, then so be it. And never mind her personal motivation…That’s good ol’ American ambition. Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, Ralph Reed…all ambitions Americans.

Maybe Mrs. Byrd can one day join their lot. If Jim keeps up his PR campaign for young Georgia conservatives, who knows?

By Brian Curtis

February 21, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

As long as we have a Constitution to mandate a secular government, the “secularists” aren’t getting squeezed out of anywhere.

Thank gods.

By jbmlaw

February 21, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

Good afternoon all. I wish Ms. Byrd well on her sunset commission. Anything that helps remove the deadwood in the code is worthwhile, although I don’t have any unrealistic hopes for productivity of another commission.

As to caps on spending, I would prefer to see politicians with sufficient political courage to cut unnecessary programs without need for an artifice to “compel” them to do right, but I suppose a cap has a better chance of a good result.

Dear More @ 9:57, I agree in part – I bought an HP Athelon 64 about a year ago. It took me almost a week to get all of the spyware and related junk off the computer. Now that I stripped out the trash, that machine is great, even my demanding older son is impressed with it. If I had it to do over, I would probably just buy a no-name with the same configuration.

By jm

February 21, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

jbmlaw@12:36 - what a novel concept, representatives with political courage to cut services deemed unnecessary (or if the services are deemed necessary, use the proper means to fund them).

By Van

February 21, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

Brian Curtis,

Your ignorance is showing, having been endowed by my creator with certain unalienable rights, I must disagree.

Also, something to think about, the signer of the Declaration of Independence called for protection from a supreme being - “And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.”

Now that does sound so secular.

And if it was set up as a secular government, why did they release control over those that did believe in a deity - as stated in the first amendment? A secularist government would have established that it was the highest form and not given up control of those lowly believers.

By Van

February 21, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

jm,

By all means, let stop using prison as a punishment for being convicted of a crime. I know, we can rent them out to businesses for the jobs Americans do not want.

Better yet, under the 13th Amendment, we can sell them into slavery for a period of time and let their new owners take care of them.

Talk about a new revenue source for schools and such.

Where do the lefties come up with these types of trade offs. We can close prisons and put that money into social welfare programs.

Laurie, pray tell, what are the dots that need connecting. Hard working honest folks pay taxes for schools and other much needed programs and criminals could care less about the programs and only want to target the hard working honest folks supporting the schools.

By CJ

February 21, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

Sorry friends – another really long one today. I’m can’t help it. I’m a really angry liberal.

For those who aren’t familiar with this issue referred to in Mid-South’s post this morning, Senate Bill 37 is intended to correct a poorly written child protection law, originally drafted by Republican Matt Towrey, and passed by the Georgia Legislature in 1995. More about Towery in a minute.

Among other things this law provided for a ten-year mandatory minimum prison sentence for certain sex crimes — one of which is for an adult to have oral sex with a minor. However, for the purposes of this law, a 17 year-old is an adult and a 15 year-old is a minor. This law and the State of Georgia have recently received international publicity of late because of the conviction of a high school student named Genarlow Wilson. Wilson, a 17 year-old, was videotaped receiving consensual oral sex from a 15 year-old girl. With this evidence, Wilson was convicted of aggravated child molestation and is two years into his prison sentence. When he finally gets out, he’ll be listed on the Georgia Sex Offender’s Registry for life, and therefore, cannot live within a certain distance of a school bus stop, cannot have access to certain jobs, etc.

Few Georgians have heard of this case, and as far as I can tell, it has received limited, inside-page coverage in the AJC. However, much of the country and the world are well aware of the high school football player and honor student who, with no prior record, sits in a Georgia prison for at least ten-years for receiving a blow job at a party.

Wilson’s conviction was appealed to the Georgia Supreme Court, but they wrote that they couldn’t overturn it because a new law, passed last year to correct the dragnet that got Wilson, didn’t apply retroactively. The Court’s opinion specifically put the ball back into the Legislature’s court. In the meantime, Wilson still sits.

Now — Senate Bill 37 was written to apply the correction mentioned above retroactively, so that Wilson might have a chance of getting out of jail and having his record expunged. Matt Towery, the author of the original 1995 bill, strongly supports S.B. 37 and says that his original bill was never intended to apply to high school students having consensual sex of any kind. I heard Towrey interviewed on the radio this morning, and any listener could tell that he feels awful that his original Bill, modified in the committee process, resulted in Wilson’s incarceration (apparently scores, perhaps hundreds, of others have been caught in the same dragnet). In addition, several jurors who convicted Wilson have advocated against his imprisonment. They said that if they had known about the sentence he would receive, they never would have voted to convict him.

Senator Eric Johnson, on the other hand, is against SB 37. Regarding the Wilson case, Johnson was quoted as saying, “To the extent that [Towery] made a mistake, we fixed it last year, and we shouldn’t go back and release sex offenders onto the street.” I also heard Johnson interviewed on the radio this morning, and he tried to give the impression that Wilson had prior arrests — he did not. Johnson refers the 15 year-old girl who engaged in the consensual oral sex as the “victim”. Of course, the girl never said that she was forced, never claimed to be a victim and was never under the influence of drugs or alcohol during the party. Johnson also tried to give the impression that Wilson raped another girl at the party. In fact, Wilson was tried for raping a different 17 year-old girl and was found “not guilty”. The alleged rape victim later admitted that she was not raped, nor was she passed out while having intercourse with Wilson (as Johnson claimed), nor was she forced by Wilson to drink or take drugs (as Johnson also claimed). Also on the radio, Johnson kept referring to Wilson as a “horny teenager” and, pulling a Bill Frist, said that he saw the videotape, and therefore, knows more than what the media is reporting. He goes on to say that Wilson wants to be a martyr because he won’t accepted a plea (which would still require him to remain on the Sex Offenders Registry for the rest of his life) and could still request to have his case re-tried (which would still result in him being on the Sex Offenders Registry for the rest of his life).

In short, Johnson thinks it’s appropriate for Wilson to be in jail for ten years because Wilson was a horny teenager who smoked, drank, had underage sex and hung out with the wrong crowd. Have any of you ever met a teenager like this? Apparently, as a teenager, Senator Johnson stayed home and read the Bible on Saturday nights. Good for him. However, with his high standards, most Georgia legislators should also have gone to prison and probably belong on Georgia’s Sex Offender Registry as well.

By jbmlaw

February 21, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

Dear jm @ 1:06, ha - you can see that I live in fantasy land. Of course, the cleverly buried bomb in my short note is that there is no such thing as a non-defense (or, at the state level, public safety) “necessary” expenditure – everything is elective.

Attention everyone, I just read Tom Sowell’s column to be published Friday – he rips Osama Obama apart. Must reading for everyone.

By jbmlaw

February 21, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

That should read “non-public-safety”

By JP

February 21, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

Georgia needs a cap on fixed-earth nutjobs too. Weren’t creation stickers and Harry Potter bans enough?

By jbmlaw

February 21, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

Dear CJ @ 2:12, we have an expression – “hard cases make bad law.” The cure for your bad case is the executive power of the pardon, not enshrining an anti-victim statute. I am as pro-defense as anyone, but the cure you propose is worse than the disease.

By jm

February 21, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

van@1:48 - I have nothing against locking criminals up. What I have a problem with is “talk tough” blowhards who create new categories of criminals, without mentioning the cost of housing those criminals. When the bill comes due for the “talk tough” legislation that money has to come from somewhere.

It costs about $17,000 per year per inmate link. That money has to come from somewhere. It costs less than half of that to educate a child (I am sure Mr. Wooten knows the numbers).

Housing prisoners is a sunk cost, while educating students are investments. Personally, I would prefer to see my tax dollars going to investments, rather than sunk costs. No guarantee that they still won’t grow up to be criminals but they have a much better chance of being productive members of society with an education than without one.

By sharkeyextreme

February 21, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

Headline News [and democrat talking points] on February 21, 2007 -

BRITAIN AND DENMARK TO WITHDRAW TROOPS!

Headline News [and democrat talking points] in 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006 -

US PRACTICALLY GOES IT ALONE IN IRAQ!

So let me get this straight. When Britain supplied only 7,500 troops and Denmark only 1,500 troops, it didn’t mean a thing. When the same unimportant troops are planning on a withdrawal from Iraq soon, according to the media and lefties it’s magically and suddenly the mark of a new era in withdrawal from Iraq.

I got it now. So when they go there it’s meaningless. When they leave, it’s the pivotal measure in the history of the war and what America should follow. I definitely follow that liberal logic now.

By CJ

February 21, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

I found a couple of links on the Genarlow Wilson case for anybody who is interested.

Senator Eric Johnson’s editorial: http://www.peachpundit.com/2007/02/19/my-take-on-genarlow-wilson/

An ESPN article: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=wilson

By Curious Observer

February 21, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this

Ah, the sanctimonious religious right. I can hardly wait for the bane of its political existence to materialize: Hillary as president, Bill appointed to fill Hillary’s unexpired senate term, and Al Gore as VP. Newt will die immediately of apoplexy, and James Dobson will need a nursing home.

By Lance

February 21, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this

CJ

I am new to this blog, but I have read enough of your comments to tell that you and I disagree on just about everything. However, while I consider myself to be a Reagan conservative and a Christian, I happen to whole-heartedly agree with you on the Wilson case.

Politicians should do the right thing and fix the law so that this young man can get out of jail and get on with his life.

By Brian Curtis

February 21, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

It’s called “freedom,” Van, a concept with which our founders were much more familiar than you are.

People are free to believe whatever they wish, specifically BECAUSE we have a secular government. (And, if you’ll check, the foundation of our government is not the Declaration of Independence; it’s a little something called the Constitution.)

Keep spinning and pretending, Van, you’ll make a great neocon cheerleader someday. Reality is for wusses who can’t handle Neocon Fantasyland.

By jm

February 21, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

jbmlaw@2:14 - I spent several years working in the Department of Defense. Trust me, there are a lot of unnecessary expenditures there.

war on poverty war on crime war on drugs war on terror

All open ended (usually a bad idea) programs that basically exist to drain the treasury.

By jbmlaw

February 21, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

Dear jm @ 2:22, you surely do not argue that the reprobates we incarcerate lacked an opportunity for an education? I agree that the outcome may have been better if there had been an opportunity other than government schools, but our leftist brothers are united against the possibility of an improvement. Meanwhile, the Chinese produce smarter kids at lower cost. Perhaps we should send all of our children to China to get a real education?

By jbmlaw

February 21, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

Dear Brian, you need to re-read the First Amendment. As it was interpreted for the first half of the 19th century, Maryland was free to be a Catholic state. The Constitution does not enshrine secular humanism, druid enviromentalism, or any other religion.

By jbmlaw

February 21, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

Dear jm @ 2:53, I agree with every word you wrote. My flaw was phrasing my 2:22 in the negative.

By Van

February 21, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

jm,

If those students availed themselves of the education opportunities, would they be in prison? Since you can not force a child to learn, how do you propose we force someone to become educated so they will not make bad life choices and wind up in prison.

Re: Genarlow Wilson case, did he hae sex with a minor? was he convicted? was there an appeal? did the proper agencies review the case?

Sorry that this young man made some bad decisions, but as a young man, no one forced him into it. If he did what the courts convicted him of and his appeals have all been filed and ruled on, then whose fault is it that he is in jail?

By sharkeyextreme

February 21, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

Speaking of Fantasyland, along comes this jewel from Curious Observer -

Hillary as president, Bill appointed to fill Hillary’s unexpired senate term, and Al Gore as VP.

Does that happen right before we are all visited by peaceful humanoid aliens that dwell in the center of the earth? Or, is that merely after Barak Obama’s campaign plane mysteriously crashes?

By jm

February 21, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

jbmlaw@2:54 - I am sure most of them had the opportunity for an education (how good that education was is subject to debate). China has one thing going for it in regards to education, a relatively homogenous (sp?) society.

Eduation vouchers are a lot like alternative energy credits. Both look good on paper but tend to fall apart as the scale increases. Unfortunately, at this moment in time, government schools are still the most effective and efficient way to educate large numbers of students. Just like big power plants are still the most effective and efficient way for large scale power production. Sadly, I don’t see either changing any time soon.

By Van

February 21, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

Brian Curtis,

Ignorance again runs rampant in the halls of secularism and socialism.

This country was established by the Declaration of Independence. It was founded on those principles enshrined there. It was founded to be a land where you or I can choose how and what we believe. Regardless of what religion the founders believed in, they did believe in a supreme being. Regardless of the words chosen or used, they all point back to some power greater than man.

If we put our faith in mankind instead of some thing bigger, then we are placing our faith in a flawed deity. We are putting our trust in a species that has made war, enslaved and extracted the most vile forms of pain we can imagine.

Believe that man is all good and moral, fine it is your choice. I will put my faith elsewhere.

By jbmlaw

February 21, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

Dear jm, you’ll appreciate this, Taranto (“Best of the Web” at opinionjournal.com) has a funny today on crime and education: Square Root Crime is back in New Orleans, even though the city’s population is less than half what it was before Hurricane Katrina, Reuters reports: The larger problem is that New Orleans has too many social problems—drugs, poverty, broken families, poor education—all present before Katrina. A recent murder encapsulated the difficulties. After a 17-year-old was beaten up, his mother gave him a gun and told him to get revenge, and he killed the boy he fought with. When police went to his home to investigate, they found the mother with cocaine and a family photo on display of the son with a gun in one hand and a fistful of cash in the other. “For us to correct this, we have to look at the root of the problem. The root of the problem is our education system,” Police Superintendent Warren Riley said in an interview. This column has no brief for government schools, but we have to say that in this particular case there would appear to have been problems at home.

By Van

February 21, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Curious Observer,

In your fantasy world, who would be under the desk giving President Rodham oral sex?

By jbmlaw

February 21, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this

Dear jm @ 3:11, you mention that education vouchers “fall apart as the scale increases.” Clearly you know something I don’t; I was unaware that vouchers had even been tried anywhere other than Milwaukee, where they are a resounding success.

By Curious Observer

February 21, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

Believe that man is all good and moral, fine it is your choice. I will put my faith elsewhere.

So Van is an Original Sinner, as are most conservatives. They choose to believe the worst about humankind, and they therefore choose the most draconian laws and punishments and the most autocratic forms of government. You’re an anachronism, Van. You and Thomas Hobbes would get along just fine. It is unfortunate that you were born in a time when even Dubya cannot be crowned king.

Maybe if Van had gone to school a little further he would have learned that the primary author of the Declaration of Independence was a Deist, not a Christian. There’s a huge difference between the two.

By Van

February 21, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

jm

Re: your 02:22 PM

van@1:48 - I have nothing against locking criminals up. What I have a problem with is “talk tough” blow hards who create new categories of criminals, without mentioning the cost of housing those criminals. When the bill comes due for the “talk tough” legislation that money has to come from somewhere.

I tend to agree with this part of your posts.

The left has always come up with ways of protecting certain protected “Victims”. we have thought laws, that say, if you have the wrong thoughts, the penalty is greater(I hate “hate” crime laws). If you have the wrong thought against someone outside the protected “Victim” groups, then it is okay. But on the other hand, the police can not protect you until you are a victim. Crazy isn’t it.

By jm

February 21, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

jbmlaw@3:26 - I have yet to see a good implementation plan for education vouchers beyond a city level. In a city, you usually have the critical mass (people and infrastructure, plus transportation) necessary for a voucher program to start and possibly succeed. When expanded out to county and state level (especially sparesely populated states), it starts to fall down.

By Van

February 21, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

Curious Observer,

Ah, the old Deist myth, again. I love revisionist history, it can be anything you want.

If that was the case, then Jefferson would never have had a bible or a Koran in his possession, be cause a deist does not believe that there is a revelation of the absent god, therefore the bible or Koran are worthless. Washington was a great believe in prayer and bible reading, not the example a deist would embrace.

By Stop Signs

February 21, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

Maybe the Brits got the meaning of “surge” wrong.

By jm

February 21, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

van@3:36 - both right and left claim bias and victimhood so much that in cases where it actually exists it is ignored.

By Van

February 21, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

Stop Signs,

Maybe the South of Iraq is more civilized than Baghdad. It looks like the Brits and the Danes accomplished the transition of power to the Iraqi forces quicker than the areas involved with the outside terrorists.

By Stop Signs

February 21, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

We probably need an English to English dictionary.

By Curious Observer

February 21, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

Did you ever think that perhaps Jefferson had a Bible and a Koran because he was a scholar who willingly entertained opposing ideas, not a reflexive, drooling political animal just waiting to kiss the **s of whatever person was in power at the time? Hint, Van: Dubya will be gone in less than two years.

By Van

February 21, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

Curious Observer,

Classical Deist would have rejected both books out of hand.

From Wikipedia, a handy source

Critical elements of deist thought included:

By Amber

February 21, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

Van wrote, “Re: Genarlow Wilson case, did he hae sex with a minor? was he convicted? was there an appeal? did the proper agencies review the case? Sorry that this young man made some bad decisions, but as a young man, no one forced him into it. If he did what the courts convicted him of and his appeals have all been filed and ruled on, then whose fault is it that he is in jail?”

First of all Van, the person who had sex with a minor was also a minor. Second, you missed the point.

The issues are, should it even be illegal for a 17 year-old kid to engage in consensual oral sex with a 15 year-old kid?

If so, does the punishment (ten years in prison and listed as a sex offender for life) fit the “bad decisions”?

What say you Van? What does your Christian upbringing teach you? How do you answer these two questions?

By Amber

February 21, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

jbmlaw,

You referred to your sons in an earlier post. I’m sure that they would never…but what if they did at age 17 (consensual oral sex with a 15 year-old, that is)? Would you still argue that the girl is a victim (as you implied earlier today)? Ten-years in prison and listed sex offender for life?

By Van

February 21, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this

Amber,

In my youth, this was called statutory rape.

The age of the male I do not think was that critical, the girl of 15 is considered a minor in this state. The article said the state considered him an adult.

“What does your Christian upbringing teach you?” When you are wrong, you confess and take responsibility for your deeds.

By Van

February 21, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

Amber,

Where I grew up, the penalty for statutory rape was 10-20 years in big boy prison.

Whether the penalty was too sever or not, is something for the legislature and the justice system to determine. Seems the jury, (did it go to a jury or was it tried before the judge? don’t remember) thought he was guilty of the charges.

By Van

February 21, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this

Amber,

What age do you think is too young?

“The issues are, should it even be illegal for a 17 year-old kid to engage in consensual oral sex with a 15 year-old kid?”

If 15 isn’t too young? how about 14, 13 how about your siblings or best friends 12 year old daughter, is she too young? Where is the line drawn for you?

By Van

February 21, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this

I guess this is where not having a belief system gets you. “Man” is good and just, except …

Belief in an involved deity is considered archaic and wrong.

A Deist or two in and amongst the founding fathers means that our founding wasn’t based on biblical concepts.

Regarding those deists, while their writings may hold some tenets consistent with deism, their actions told a different story. Since it is hard to go back in time and ask them their inner most thoughts about God and religion, we will have those that will not accept the traditional points of view and try to bend history to fit their version of reality and not reality itself.

By Stop Signs

February 22, 2007 8:13 AM | Link to this

We’re going to need a bigger god.

By Brian Curtis

February 22, 2007 8:21 AM | Link to this

Van: You’re right that the deist argument is irrelevant (though true). The point is not what the founders personally believed, but what type of government they set up.

And that is inarguably a secular one. No matter what they believed about religion personally, they believed even more strongly that government should play no part in it.

By Jeff

February 22, 2007 8:31 AM | Link to this

Amber:

The law of the land states that sexual activity with anyone under the age of 16 is illegal and can be punished by x number of years in prison. TRUST me, every teenage boy in this state knows that, ESPECIALLY those OVER 16. He knew what he was doing. His time fits the crime.

By garry

February 27, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

Kudos to Charlice Byrd. I hope she stays in the legislature a long time. Her sunset idea is long overdue.

By Robert

February 27, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

Re Rep. Charlise Byrd Thank you, Charlise! for rising above politics to engage in things that truly affect our lives and the lives of our children and grandchildren. What could be more important than pursuing those goals that enhance the quality of life for every Georgian? You go, girl!

By CT

March 4, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this

It is interesting what some consider “dirty politics”. By the Georgia Constitution, the only thing that the State Legislature must do is pass the state’s budget. Mrs. Byrd’s opponent loved to tout her Harvard MBA, but she did not want the public to learn that she had to be sued years later by the non-profit that loaned her money for tuition to start repaying her loan. Prior to having political ambitions, she went so far as to countersue the foundation. She settled the suit about two weeks before filing to run for the State House seat in 2004. When that very germane point was brought out in the 2004 campaign, she cried “dirty politics”. I for one would like to know that my representatives can honor their own debts before they are allowed to determine how Georgia’s revenues are spent.