Home > Thinking Right > Archives > 2007 > January > 03 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USThe value of stacking bricks
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
While vacationing in Brazil, I stopped while bicycling past a small mom-and-pop clay building block factory to watch workmen loading a flatbed truck. The workers, about 10 men who appeared to be no older than their early 30s, were industrious, steady to the task of loading the blocks, which had been moved from inside the factory to the outside, where they were stacked. The truck was pulled alongside and about five of the workers hand-loaded them, four at a time, onto the bed of the delivery truck.
I watched the process with some fascination, owing to the debate leading up to the elections in the U.S., about raising the minimum wage, which in Brazil is now being increased from about $163 per month in U.S. dollars to about $177 per month, starting in April. In the brick-hauling operation, I guessed that a good forklift could have eliminated the jobs of seven of the young men loading the building blocks. It was a time-consuming, highly inefficient process, economical only because their wages, all combined, didn’t raise the price of the bricks to more than the ample competition in the area would allow.
At some point, if wages pressed higher, a smart accountant would have advised the owner to invest the capital in a forklift, to spend a few dollars in training an operator, and to fire the excess workers. The bricks they were making were very low tech. The margins couldn’t have given the owner much wiggle room; his options when faced with higher labor costs, it seemed to me, were to invest capital or close shop.
And what of the 10 workers? Ideally, a country’s education system and economy advance in sync, so that job skills and needs align. But in the case of the brick factory workers, the alignment has occurred at the low end. An act of Congress couldn’t change that.
The new Speaker of the U.S. House, Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), intends to make raising the federal minimum wage a first 100-hours priority when the 110th Congress convenes on Thursday. The legislation, which is likely to bypass the House Education and Workforce Committee and go straight to the floor for consideration, would likely raise the federal minimum wage from $5.15 per hour to $7.25 in phases.
Brazil is not the U.S. But the fact remains that some labors are not worth much. Employers may be able to pass it along in higher prices but in many instances, as with the brick-stackers in Brazil, they can’t. And in that case, either the owners find alternatives to unskilled labor — or they close shop.
In addition to raising the minimum wage, the Pelosi Democrats plan to pass half a dozen pieces of legislation in the first 100 hours. Among them are a ban on gifts from lobbyists to members of Congress, an end to Bush administration restrictions on federally-funded stem cell research, full implementation of 9/11 commission recommendations, and federal government price negotiation for prescription drugs.
Passing them through the House and through the Senate are entirely different matters, of course. But the question here is whether the nation will be better or worse off if Pelosi Democrats’ agenda succeeds.
Comments
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
January 3, 2007 08:06 AM | Link to this
You rode a bike?
Wasn’t there a car around for you to use?
By jbmlaw
January 3, 2007 08:17 AM | Link to this
Good morning all. The market for labor is no different from any other market; anything that increases the cost of any particular component of production makes alternatives more attractive. My assessment is that increasing the minimum wage will not destroy the republic. The only victims of the socialist market interference will be those people with insufficient intellectual or physical skills to make themselves desirable employees, but those people are always unlikely to prosper in any event; since those people vote socialist in any event, they are getting their just desserts.
My own theories – often presented here – are founded on my belief that all penalties for violation of minimum wage law should be visited only against the employee. The employer cannot compel anyone to work for him, due to the 15th Amendment; thus, only the employee can voluntarily violate minimum wage laws. An appropriate penalty for violation of the minimum wage law is execution; thus, anyone who accepts a sub-minimum wage job should be hanged. I also think the minimum wage should be set at a minimum of $250 per hour.
By PC These
January 3, 2007 08:17 AM | Link to this
What do a fat girl and a brick have in common?
Eventually both will be laid by a Mexican.
By DebbieDoRight
January 3, 2007 08:23 AM | Link to this
Jim: They don’t need to raise the minimum wage!!! Let them eat cake!!! We’re about to get Medieval on their as$$!!
Working Poor: Please sir, may we have more?
Jim: And your little Dog Toto Too!!! (as he rides off screeching on his bike - green skin, weird hat, broomstick and all)
By Patriotic Foreskin
January 3, 2007 08:31 AM | Link to this
How can there be so much talk of bricks and the article not mention the Hawks?
Who spotted the error in grammer? the compound verb used for a single subject?
“Passing them through the house and through the senate are entirely different matters, of course.”
ew
Jim, get your mind off gerunds, man. They’re ruining you.
Look, gerunds are a very exotic syntactical choice that can make a paragraph, but there’s a minefield of wrong steps on the way to and from a gerund, and I’d leave them alone, sir.
By Mid-South Philosopher
January 3, 2007 08:34 AM | Link to this
Good morning Jim and jbmlaw,
Reading jmblaw’s theory, it is delightful to see that there are others with warped senses of humor!
Good work, jmblaw.
Of course, by this time next week the General Assembly will be in session and their will be a lot of “warpedness” (is that a word?) in the public eye.
By deegee
January 3, 2007 08:45 AM | Link to this
Oh good lord, “the Pelosis are coming!, the Pelosis are coming!”. Like this is the first time in the history of the country that the minimum wage was raised. The economy will be fine, we will all still be able to afford a Big Mac, JW will still be able to get his executive bathroom cleaned by displaced workers from second and third world countries. Nothing new here except for a refreshing and long overdue transfer of power in Congress.
By sct
January 3, 2007 08:45 AM | Link to this
According to a recent Pew Research poll, 83% favor raising the min. wage to $7.25 an hour.
More proof of how out of touch a lot of our thinking right conservatives are.
By Barbara
January 3, 2007 08:50 AM | Link to this
I must admit, I like the idea of banning gifts from lobbyists to congressmen…….
I think Nancy is coming on way too strong, and that may be a problem for the Dems just in time for the next Presidential elections. Most successful leaders wade in and make thoughtful decisions after assessing things from an inside perspective. The fact that she has such an agenda going in shows bitterness and spite. Not surprising coming from the Dems though.
By Watta Load
January 3, 2007 08:51 AM | Link to this
I’m just surprised that Jim could bike in Brazil without getting robbed…
By SusieHomeMaker
January 3, 2007 08:55 AM | Link to this
Doesn’t Congress raise their wages every year? Why can’t they raise someone else’s?
By Brian Curtis
January 3, 2007 08:55 AM | Link to this
Predictably, Wooten makes the argument that “what’s good for the bottom line” should be America’s only priority in regulating the marketplace.
Or, rather, in NOT regulating the marketplace, other than to hand out tax breaks, loopholes, favoritism legislation, and “incentives” to bulk up the ol’ profit margin.
Unfortunately, this society operates for the benefit of people, not profits. And we can set the terms and conditions of how businesses are permitted to operate at any level and in any configuration we choose.
“Maximizing profits” is the understandable top priority for business executives—which is exactly why we NEED minimum-wage laws and other regulations to ensure that their interests are balanced against the good of the workers, consumers, and communities they affect.
The REAL bottom line: We’re in charge, and capitalism is our b***, to do with as we please.
By CJ
January 3, 2007 08:57 AM | Link to this
Jim Wooten “…the fact remains that some labors are not worth much.”
This statement is true. No CEO or upper manager is worth tens of millions of dollars. No CEO or upper manager is worth hundreds of times more than his or her lowest paid employee. Such salaries are legalized theft. Board members and upper managers of big business are stealing, via ridiculous salaries, bonuses and perks, from their under-paid employees and from their shareholders.
On the other hand, all work is worth at least the amount required to live on (safe housing, food, shelter, transportation, health care, savings for retirement). Jim is repeating the argument (higher prices and closing small businesses) that so-called conservatives always make when this issue comes up. The evidence has consistently shown that they’re wrong. Raising the minimum wage grows the economy. In fact, it grows the economy faster than comparable tax cuts or pay increases for the middle class and wealthy because low-income households turn around and spend nearly all of the additional money they earn since they don’t have room in their budgets for a surplus. In return, we all benefit from the resulting economic growth — including business owners that use minimum wage workers.
To the extent that an over-paid manager has to take a pay cut so that under-paid workers can make something closer to what they’re worth…good.
By Billy Jack
January 3, 2007 09:00 AM | Link to this
Why don’t we just bring back the feudal system? We can have “serfs” work the land and PAY the landowner for the right to do it!!! It’ll work in every facet of society.
Auto Making: Car Serfs
Beer Making: Drunk Serfs
Construction: Mexican Serfs
Porn Industry: Slutty Serfs
Bicycle Industry: Wooten Serfs
Telephone Industry: Recorded Serfs
The possibilties are endless……..
By sct
January 3, 2007 09:19 AM | Link to this
We can’t raise the min. wage.
What happens when someone like Nardelli gets fired? How are they supposed to live off of a measly $210 million severance package? I know the tax cuts help but come on.
That min. wage hike will just have to wait.
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
January 3, 2007 09:21 AM | Link to this
So Barbara,
Pelosi having a plan and a goal for implementing it is “coming on too strong”?
I seem to remember a bunch of hand-wringing going on in the GOP about how the dems didn’t have any plans…just a bunch of complaining. But now they have one, and who’s complaining?
Can’t have it both ways….although Jim sure seems to want to. In Atlanta he says bikes suck, but in Brazil he loves them.
By RW-(the original)
January 3, 2007 09:28 AM | Link to this
I heard a debate on the proposed Federal minimum wage increase the other day. The person arguing for the increase said it should be done because it had already been done in 29 states. That sounds to me like there is no need at all to increase the Federal minimum wage.
I hope someone in Congress has sense enough to point out that this is just a money grab by unions that have contracts that include automatic raises to all their workers based on any increase to the Federal minimum wage.
By sct
January 3, 2007 09:41 AM | Link to this
What kind of message would Jim be sending to our troops if he drove a car while in Brazil?
The gasoline there is tainted. 40% ethanol.
You don’t go to war for oil then go driving around using such a diluted substance. That would be rude.
By @@
January 3, 2007 09:42 AM | Link to this
Gosh Jim, you went to Brazil? I’m glad you made it back. I keep reading where kidnapping is a prosperous business down there.
You rode a bicycle to avoid looking too affluent didn’t you. Did you wear some of those biking shorts? I sure hope not. Wide seat? I sure hope so.
Anyway…speaking of kidnapping, I thought this article was interesting:
“There are some Democrats who say we should seize that seat any way we can,” he acknowledged. “But if in a heavy-handed way, we just say we’ve got the votes and we’re going to throw out Vern Buchanan, we would undermine the principle we say we are fighting for.”
All things in moderation I say. But radical leftists? It has always been gorge, gorge, gore.
Hmmmmm “Gore”…I never really made that connection until now. Stick it to ‘em Al.
By PlantManager
January 3, 2007 09:46 AM | Link to this
Jim, I cannot disagree with what you have said here. I see the real concern being, as another columnist points out, that, “between 2002 and 2012, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, that the U.S. economy is expected to create 56 million new jobs, half of which will require no more than a high school education. All evidence points to a yearly demand for 500,000 additional unskilled laborers in the United States”. End of quote. Jim that is THE problem. If over half of the the newly created jobs are in that category, how many more fall under the category of jobs that will be outsourced to cheaper labor markets. 20 years ago our children were promised a brighter future if they educated themselves in preperation for good jobs in a high tech economy. Look what they are being handed in reality. A service oriented economy driven by cheap labor and fueled by consumer spending and debt. With the cost of basic living nessesities on the rise, the shortage of discressionary dollars left to spend will begin to erode. And that bodes ill for an economy based upon consumer spending. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that this at some point in time will have a devasting effect on the lives of our children and grandchildren. Peripherally it can also have an impact on our educational system as well. If good jobs are outsourced to cheaper labor markets, what happens to the folks caught in the middle…the economy drivers in this service oriented country…the middle class. Whether anyone wants to admit it, the middle class in this country is in big trouble. At what point do we start to resemble a third world country instead of the country that we are today? This economy is beggining to resemble the proverbial house of cards just waiting to be blown down. And before long it is not going to take much of a breez to do it.
By Patriotic Foreskin
January 3, 2007 09:49 AM | Link to this
Minimin wage increase? Moot. Most jobs pay more than minimimun wage now. Not even an issue. Just more diversion from the war in iraq.
notice how the right will talk about anything but Iraq. Osama. Obama. Afghanistan.
Luchovich should have put bush in that noose, upside down and flailing about furiously with his parents looking on, expressionless but grim.
By jbmlaw
January 3, 2007 09:59 AM | Link to this
Our leftist friends are on target here. None of us care if a bunch of losers find themselves unemployed due to cutbacks. Walmart, always ahead of the curve, announced this morning how it will handle the new higher wages, via hour cutbacks using a sophisticated software program that predicts customer volumes (WSJ, front page.) Other employers will react similarly, thus reducing overall pay to those employees.
By @@
January 3, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this
Stacking the bricks or “Stacking the Deck”.
On its website, WEA (Washington Education Association) says it “does not spend non-members’ fees on political purposes and non-members have a simple, easy way of opting out.” WEA spokesman Rich Wood declined to speak with Cybercast News Service about the apparent contradiction in the WEA statement.
Well…..which is it?
I think he stepped on his “woody”.
By Amelia
January 3, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this
By Billy Jack
January 3, 2007 09:00 AM | Link to this
Why don’t we just bring back the feudal system? We can have “serfs” work the land and PAY the landowner for the right to do it!!! It’ll work in every facet of society.
Auto Making: Car Serfs
Beer Making: Drunk Serfs
Construction: Mexican Serfs
Porn Industry: Slutty Serfs
Bicycle Industry: Wooten Serfs
Telephone Industry: Recorded Serfs
The possibilties are endless……..
Billy Jack that is classic. But you may have just humorously predicted our children’s and their children’s future if we keep traveling in the direction that we are going now.
By Kevin
January 3, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this
PlantManager wrote “At what point do we start to resemble a third world country instead of the country that we are today?”
I hate to say this, but we’re already sliding toward third-world status:
It’s death by a thousand cuts. Hopefully, with time, the Democrats can stop the bleeding and mitigate the damage.
By getalife
January 3, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this
Ah, the Dems are coming to give the American people hope they will fix w’s mess.
The gop rubber stamp Congress is history and they set the bar very low.
These people are going to have to work 5 days a week and they are whining like the wingnuts.
Many hearings, investigations and subpoenas are coming so you wingnuts prepare yourselves to hear the destruction your party has caused starting with w’s Iraq disaster.
Yes, there is hope but the damage is done. With w and cheney gone, there is a better chance, we can clean up the mess but it will take decades.
By jbmlaw
January 3, 2007 10:07 AM | Link to this
Dear SCT @ 8:45, is that not amazing? The precision of the wisdom of the American people, in that 83% of the public believes the minimum wage for execution should be set at exactly $7.25. I assume the other 17% was evenly divided between $7.24 and $7.26? I confess that I think Pew polls stink.
By Barbara
January 3, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this
Jim’s a cherry picker, we will see. The voters will speak after getting a view of Pelosi’s plans.
Seriously, if we want to move forward as a country, we need to come together in a more concensus-building fashion. The frothing at the mouth and chomping for power demeanor of the incoming Dems is not at all a collaborative approach. Say what you will about Bush, and Dems have never given him the credit he deserves on this issue, but he made the biggest effort in modern history to bring collaboration between the 2 parties. Moderates on both sides want the bickering to stop in order to get down to the real work. Pelosi is not the one to bring that kind of collaboration to the party.
By Kate
January 3, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this
jbmlaw is mistaken to rely on Wal-Mart scare tactics for arguing against the minimum wage increase. Their management doesn’t want it because, in their greedy minds, they’re afraid that it might mean less money for them. If they could set aside their greed for a moment, they could recall that Wal-Mart’s business grew every time and everywhere the minimum wage was increased.
Henry Ford instinctively knew about the benefits of paying his employees well when he decided to compensate them enough to be able to afford the cars he made. It’s a shame that Wal-Mart’s management is still unable to make the connection.
Just as well. Another reason to take my business elsewhere.
By PlantManager
January 3, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this
What is it about this blog that every issue becomes about Democrats and Republicans and nobody is really saying or doing anything…just bashing political parties. Folks it is past time to shed all the traditional party line bs and mantra excreted by the extremist on both sides. This isn’t about rats and cons. It is about fixing problems. And I really don’t care who comes up with the plans and solutions. I am smart enough to see it when it happens. I can’t say the same thing about some of you hard corp partisans from both sides. Wake up. Pull your heads out of the place the sun don’t shine. One thing is for sure, is a historical fact, and is indisputable. You won’t get different results doing things the same old way. And we really do need to start fixing some things. And again. I don’t really care who gets it done as long as it gets done. See ya!
By Diogenes
January 3, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this
Dear Mr. Wooten:
You can take the employer’s point of view that raising the minimum wage will increase his cost of doing business, or you can take the workers’ point of view that an increase in minimum wage will help in paying the bills. Costs of living have increased significantly since the last minimum wage increase, and wages have not keep pace, at any level except very top management, CEO’s, and professionals like doctors and lawyers. The middle class is being squeezed out of existence.
The increase, like the last one several years ago, will have a positive over-all effect. Prices did not raise proportionately, increased costs were in most cases handled through attrition, and the increase had an upward pressure on wages across the board, helping the middle class keep pace with the top echelons. This increase should have taken place several years ago.
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
January 3, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this
Kevin (via Plant Manager),
I think you’re right about the “death by a thousand cuts” comment. There are too many variables occurring too quickly and independently of each other for economists to get their collective heads around them.
But I’m not all that excited about the Dems’ potential for goodness in governance.
Unfortunately, they’re part of the same system that the GOP has been abusing for the last 12 years, and they’re subject to the same downfalls…namely democracy for those who can afford a good lobbyist.
So long as the people with the money are writing the rules, the rules will favor the people with the money. The rest of us should just get used to eating and working at Taco Bell.
Politicians suck.
By Todd K.
January 3, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this
“Say what you will about Bush, and Dems have never given him the credit he deserves on this issue, but he made the biggest effort in modern history to bring collaboration between the 2 parties.”
I don’t know whether to laugh at or cry for this person.
By jbmlaw
January 3, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
Dear Barbara @ 8:50, I respectfully believe you have it backwards. I do not care about lobbyists giving gifts to politicians, I worry about politicians giving gifts to lobbyists. Best recent example, the two democrats on the FCC giving such a great reward to Google (“net neutrality”) rather than requiring Google to pay the market prices.
By SusieHomeMaker
January 3, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this
Say what you will about Bush, and Dems have never given him the credit he deserves on this issue, but he made the biggest effort in modern history to bring collaboration between the 2 parties
I must’ve missed that. When did this happen? Can you give any instances?
By jbmlaw
January 3, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
Dear Kate @ 10:17, you err – I do not rely on Walmart scare tactics. I have been around long enough to see the effects of minimum wage increases, although I admit the last time I lost my job due to such an increase was March 1974. If the leftists would set aside their greed, the economy would grow faster and longer. You recall what happened to the economy the last time the democrats controlled the Senate. Your argument about Henry Ford makes some sense; I do see the democrats building a bridge to the 20th century with such outmoded socialist legislation as the minimum wage laws.
By Kevin
January 3, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this
“What is it about this blog that every issue becomes about Democrats and Republicans…I really don’t care who comes up with the plans and solutions. I am smart enough to see it when it happens.”
I don’t care who comes up with the plans or solutions either, but consistentely, it’s the Democrats. I’m sorry, but if you don’t recognize that, then maybe you’re not as smart as you think.
By getalife
January 3, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this
“Evangelical broadcaster Pat Robertson said Tuesday that God has told him that a terrorist attack on the United States would cause a “mass killing” late in 2007.”
But w has made us safer.
Geez.
By Kevin
January 3, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this
Cherry Picker,
I hear you brother. Democrats are far from perfect. But it’s the Democrats who will argue for taking the money out of politics via publicly-financed elections and other reforms while the Republicans who will argue against such reforms. If “we the people” push for the necessary reforms, then Democrats will get it done while Republicans will ignore us.
By jbmlaw
January 3, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this
Dear Diogenes @ 10:22, you can take the employer’s point of view, that raising the minimum wage will diminish his capacity to take a chance on unskilled or inexperienced labor, or you can take the workers’ point of view, that an increase in minimum wage will ensure they cannot get a job. Costs of doing business have increased significantly since the last minimum wage increase, and productivity has not kept pace, at any level except very top management, CEO’s, and professionals like doctors and lawyers. The middle class is loafing itself out of existence. The increase, like the last one several years ago, will have an entirely negative effect for the poorest of the poor. Prices will rise proportionately, increased costs will ensure overall reduction of labor force via international outsourcing, and the increase will diminish ownership’s sense of obligation to the work force. Thank goodness we have socialists who know our needs better than free people making free decisions.
By Kevin
January 3, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this
consistentely = consistently @10:32. Sorry.
By Diogenes
January 3, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this
Mr. Wooten,
Another point about minimum wage. Most of those opposed to it forget about the multiplier effect. When there is more money in the hands of those at the bottom of the pay scale, that money immediately goes into goods and services, usually clothing and food. When the minimum wage increased in the 80’s, Diogenes was working for one of the monolithic grocery companies.
Before the increase took effect, there was much weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. We were concerned that our costs of business would increase and we’d have to pass that increase on. We were union shop; many of our competitors were not, but to our amazement our increases in sales almost nullified the increase in costs. The increased wages were being spend in the grocery store to feed families a little better, a positive thing. For the most part, we, and our competitors, were able to hold the line on price increases.
Margin went down a little, but the increase in sales offset it. Our union laborers were able to upgrade their autos, more money into the economy. The multiplier effect can create very positive results. The increase is way overdue
By JK
January 3, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this
Brazil, huh? Is that Mr. Wooten’s Utopia? They have no inheritence or wealth taxes in Brazil. This has led to a very small socioeconomic upper class that controls most of the wealth (5% own 36% of everything), a large percentage of the population living below the poverty line (31%), high unemployment,and a struggling, highly-taxed middle class. Oh yes, the country also has MASSIVE debt, underfunded health and education programs, and few opportunities for those born in poverty.
Sounds just like what the GOP Congress was trying accomplish for 12 years, after you suckers bought that “Contract with America” load of bull. Why don’t you move there, Mr. Wooten? Everyone falls in love in Brazil! HA!
By Holy Roller
January 3, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this
Pat Robertson is a man of GOD. He knows all the time what GOD wants for the american people and what GOD is saying to him.
Some people say it’s his schizophrenia that’s really talking to him; but I say NO It’s NOT! It’s GOD!! Ye of little faith, you are the same type of people who sneered when he told you about leftist liberals and their unmitigated take over of America! You didn’t believe him!! Now we have leftist liberals in our work places!!
GOD talks to Pat Robertson all the time, why if it wasn’t for GOD telling Pat to take out Chavez then who was it huh? Just because he takes medication for hallucinations you GODLESS people make fun of him.
PS: GOD told me to post this.
By sct
January 3, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this
jmblaw, a Gallup poll taken right after the election said 68% were in favor of a minimum wage increase being a priority of the new Congress. If you can find anything that says a hike is not very popular with the public right now go ahead.
The American people voted for Congress to take action on issues, they kicked out the do-nothing Congress. Remember?
By getalife
January 3, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this
Olbermann: If in your presence an individual tried to sacrifice an American serviceman or woman, would you intervene? Would you at least protest? What if he had already sacrificed 3,003 of them? What if he had already sacrificed 3,003 of them — and was then to announce his intention to sacrifice hundreds, maybe thousands, more?
Dusty will not like this special comment but this guy tells it like it is. A true member of the reality based community.
By GP
January 3, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this
“Costs of doing business have increased significantly since the last minimum wage increase, and productivity has not kept pace…The middle class is loafing itself out of existence…Thank goodness we have socialists who know our needs better than free people making free decisions.”
The first part of this statement is a complete lie. In fact, the opposite has happened. Productivity has increased significantly faster than salaries and wages since Bush took office, in part, because workers have been working longer hours for less pay and benefits when measured in real dollars (adjusted for inflation).
As far as the “socialist” label is concerned…it speaks volumes about the disingenuousness of the person making this comment.
jbmlaw’s case must not be very strong if he needs to rely on lies and branding to make it.
By jbmlaw
January 3, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
Dear SCT @ 10:54, I am with you, I think the minimum wage should be $250 per hour. What’s wrong with you lily-livered leftists? Show some gumption.
Dear GP @ 11:00, by selectively omitting my words, you have turned my truth into a falsehood. Don’t lie by misquoting me; your case must not be very strong if you need to rely on lies to make it. As to your other argument, I acknowledge your belief that socialists oppose minimum wage laws and capitalists favor them; I also think your stated belief is disingenuous.
By getalife
January 3, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this
“Ladies and gentlemen, the wheels are coming off. The president is unhinged. He is alone in his decision to kill more innocent people and doesn’t care if this is not what his Generals, his fellow republicans, Congress and nearly 90% of Americans want. Or if it is doomed to fail.”
But hey, keep cheering on the cheerleader.
Just freaking pathetic.
By Amelia
January 3, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this
By Kevin
January 3, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this
Cherry Picker,
I hear you brother. Democrats are far from perfect. But it’s the Democrats who will argue for taking the money out of politics via publicly-financed elections and other reforms while the Republicans who will argue against such reforms. If “we the people” push for the necessary reforms, then Democrats will get it done while Republicans will ignore us.
Do you really believe that Kevin? Can you give even 1 specific example of either political party doing that? Go back to the last “campaign finance” reform fiasco and look what happened. Take a peek at the hard money and soft money systems and who fought for what. Kevin, no politician will cut his own throat and bleed himself out like that. Trusting either political party or any politician is lunacy.
By jbmlaw
January 3, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this
Dear GP @ 11:00, more seriously, you neglect to control for technology in your productivity measurement. Virtually all productivity gains are due to substitution of technology for humanity, which was the underlying theme of Jim’s essay today.
By Loafing Middle Class Socialist
January 3, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this
Bush is stubbornly refusing to listen to any advisors. Without Rummy he doesn’t have anyone backing him up and he’ll keep having advisory committees and panels until he finds some people that agree with him. Failing that he’ll continue flopping around until Condi b***-slaps him.
By Patriotic Foreskin
January 3, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this
The problem with the minimum wage is that it is neither minimum, nor a wage.
Rather, it’s more like a smidgeon of emolument. And I am FOR raising the smidgeon emolument!!
By GP
January 3, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this
jbmlaw,
Your erroneous post is a few inches above for all to see. Nothing was selectively omitted.
As somebody pointed out yesterday, Hitler picked his nose too. That doesn’t make you a Nazi.
You could have made your arguments regarding the minimum wage without labeling those who disagree with you as socialists. However, since the facts don’t support your cause, you turn to demagoguery. Such rhetoric is lazy, misleading, divisive and unfunny. I assure you, you discredit yourself by resorting to such tactics in a political discussion with fellow Americans.
By Kevin
January 3, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this
Amelia,
Yes, I really believe that. The most recent campaign reform bill, signed under pressure by President Bush, was overwhelmingly supported by Democrats and underwhelmingly supported by Republicans (go back and look at the votes). Google “Clean Election Laws” and read about which party is pushing for publicly-financed campaigns.
You are right that we shouldn’t blindly trust any politician or party. We the people have to take a stand, let our representatives know how we feel and keep on them until they do the right things. Or we need to replace them with those who will represent us as we require, as many did in the last election.
By Sam I Am
January 3, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this
I don’t see what the fuss is about. Once they raise the minimum wage, goods and services will go up just to offset the increase.
By PlantManager
January 3, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this
jbmlaw, I have to agree with you. I would love to see more people employed in good jobs, but in a way people are their own worst enemies. When you have been in the position of having to make a manufacturing facility productive while trying to get a productive days labor out of the 20% of your work force that you spend 80% of your time on that don’t want to be at work or don’t produce when they are at work, you will understand why technology is seen as the multiplier and your ROI. And before all you hardliners out there jump in and come at me with that fire em all bs, consider the cost of that. You can only fire a small percentage before that action starts eating awy at your margins through training cost, waste, and various other factors. A job is not an entitlement, yet I see that attitude everyday among the workforce. If very worker was maximizing his productivity everyday I can guarantee you that particularly, small and middle size businesses would be less inclined to spend capital on expensive machinery and technology. And for you guys that want to run all of the Latino labor out of the country understand that it is the performance and attitudes of some of the existing work force that makes immigrant labor so attractive. In a way they are actually helping to save the jobs of people that would not be needed should they be replaced with technology because of their lack of productivity. People have to take responsibility for their performance or risk becoming a jobs lost statistic.
By GP
January 3, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this
jbmlaw,
I didn’t neglect to control for technology in my productivity assessment, hence my use of the phrase “in part” in my 11:00 post. However, technology does account for as much of the productivity gains as you would have us believe.
The statistics tell us what most Americans already know. That we’re being squeezed by our employers. Bush recently modified overtime rules allowing my salaried wife’s employer to require her to work 45 hours per week instead of 40 hours per week without a penny of additional compensation, overtime or otherwise. Do the math. That’s over six weeks (250 hours) of free work per year that my wife generates for her employer that was illegal before Bush “clarified” overtime rules.
By jbmlaw
January 3, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this
Dear GP @ 11:56, I respectfully observe that you do not address my arguments. I agree with your core implicit argument, that socialist ideas are inherently suspect. I think you also accept my core argument, that interference with the free market is inherently anti-capitalist. Our disconnect is that you wish to affirm the goodness of an anti-capitalist policy without offering a reason. In contrast, while I correctly label minimum wage as a socialist interference with free economy, I have also outlined the undesirable historical and likely-prospective effects of such abolition of freedom. Give us some reason to believe you are right, that the minimum wage will not cause any poor people to lose their jobs, and will not cause any company to send jobs overseas.
By jbmlaw
January 3, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
Dear Plantmanager @ 12:12, your essay sounds true. Beware, those who oppose freedom do not like to hear the truth.
By Amelia
January 3, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this
Kevin, wake up and smell the coffee! Making a show to pander to the electorate is one thing. What they really intend to do or want to do are way too often two different things. Look at all the jibber jabber and outright warfare that revolved around the border fence issue. Oh hell yes they approved the fence, but then didn’t appropriate the funding. Surprise, surprise. That is what you get when you fall into the partisan politic trap. They know that come hell or high water a certain percentage of the populace will buy what they are selling even when the goods are never delivered. What good is the talk minus the walk? If all of a sudden every voter in this country became a “no party” then maybe they would have to do something. The way it is now both parties are the Captain Blys of a ship of fools.
By Diogenes
January 3, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this
Mr. Wooten:
Your example is a little short-sighted. The American economy is amazingly resilient and astonishingly self-correcting. I don’t know about Brazil’s economy, but in the US, if the owner were to purchase a forklift, he would create jobs for forklift builders, forklift repairman, and all the attendant workers needed to assemble and keep forklifts operative. He would probably train one of his own to operate the forklift — at no increase in pay. He would now be capable of doing more work than before because of the forklift and skilled operator, so he could take on more business, do jobs faster, and more efficiently. If he’s a good contractor, it won’t take long before he has to hire new people (or retain the ones he had before he purchased the forklift) to do the new jobs.
In the past, minimum wage increases have been economic stimulants, not depressors. It will be this time, too; it will pump a lot of money into the economy because minimum wage people live paycheck to paycheck and spend all they have. In the past, there have not been layoffs; there won’t be this time either. Quite the contrary, I believe this will be quite a strong stimulant.
By getalife
January 3, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this
Plant Manager,
Quit whining and get to work.
Be thankful your job has not been sent to China yet like most production jobs.
By jbmlaw
January 3, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this
To all our leftist friends, do you believe you can raise wages above market levels without increasing unemployment? Do you have any moral qualms about possibly increasing unemployment among our poorest people, if the only benefit is that some few people will get an additional $50 (after taxes) per week?
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
January 3, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this
Kevin,
So yeah, we “voted the bums out” but who did we replace them with?
Our choices were limited to two options, and both of those options are already controlled by the people really in power - corporate america.
Washington it bought and paid for. The choice has been made already. Those people are making too much money to risk it on the whims of the unwashed masses.
Check out the history of the lobbying effort to repeal the estate tax. That’s a great example. If you have a group of private interests willing to spend billions of dollars to get a law changed, it doesn’t matter who’s in office - that law is gonna get changed. And if it doesn’t, they’ll continue to affect the election process via contributions and pr campaigns until it does get changed.
Us voters ain’t so smart, and we have short memories (remember the “Contract with America?).
By GP
January 3, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this
jbmlaw,
Others have already offered the reasons you seek in their posts (see Diogenes, CJ, Kate and others). You countered their arguments with misinformation and labels. I jumped in to counter your lie and your attempt to brand your opponents in this debate. That’s my contribution. If you refuse to be persuaded by facts and logic provided by others, then there’s nothing I can add.
With regard to your twisted application of socialism, regulation of private enterprise in a representative democracy of (ex: minimum wages) and socialism (government ownership of the means of production and distribution) are not synonymous.
By MELO
January 3, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this
Nardelli is getting off with over $200m. Is One man worth that much? And yu complain here about $7.25/hr. If employers cannot stomach the the minimum wage increase they need to cut the CEO salary. They are all inflated anyway and its a ripoff!!
Please!!!!! Republicans are heartless people. The fact that that low lifer is never going to improve their life is neither here nor there. Just pay them to allow them a close to decent living, thats all dems are asking for. Not legalized slavery! And all the Pelosi initiatives you mention are noble causes. I dont see where your grief at that agenda is besides cyniism. We need ehtics reform. wether its the Republicans or Dems who are going to get caught up is irrelevent. Its good for everybody.
By Kevin
January 3, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this
Amelia,
I’m awake, and the coffee is delicious.
It was the Republican-controlled Congress who overwhelmingly approved the fence and then didn’t provide the funding. Most Americans didn’t fall for it. Recognizing this scam is exactly how we force change. (For the record, immigration reform is one issue I disagree with Democrats on. I don’t support a Guest Worker Program)
You should know that I don’t have blind loyalty to the Democrats. In fact, my own Democratic representative in Congress is co-sponsoring a law to replace a progressive tax system with a regressive tax system. I want him out, but I want to replace him with a better Democrat. On the range of issues that come up, Democrats agree with me about 90 percent of the time. Republicans? About five percent of the time.
The bottom line is, like you indicate, we shouldn’t trust any politicians to work on our behalf. We have to get informed, stay informed, write letters and vote. The people are in control, not the politicians. To the extent that politicians get away with BS, it’s our fault for allowing it to happen.
Have you read about the states that have enacted Clean Election laws yet? We need to do the same thing on the federal level.
By PlantManager
January 3, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this
getalife, my job might very well someday go to China. Everyday I try to keep that from happening, but in the end that is basically beyond my control. But you seem to be refuting the point I made that people have to be productive or face that posibility. A job is not an entitlement and if it were to ever be that you can bet your last dollar that it will go to China.
And GP, I don’t know what career field your wife is in, but manufacturing managers have worked far more hours than that for no additional salary since way before George Bush came on the scene. Does your wife have a salary plus contract? Is she an exempt salaried employee or non-exempt. Most managers at the higher pay levels either get salary plus by contractual means or know going in that you work the hours required to get the job done period. Nd that doesn’t even include the calls you get at night. In reality, most salaried positions bring with it a 24/7 scenario.
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
January 3, 2007 01:04 PM | Link to this
Wow,
It’s waaay nicer here today without tftt slinging mud all over everyone.
By jim d
January 3, 2007 01:04 PM | Link to this
And Bricks will always be in demand.
Just see for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1rLQQYvW3Q&mode=related&search=
By getalife
January 3, 2007 01:09 PM | Link to this
Plant Manager,
Learn Chinese and your company may keep you to train the ones taking your job.
I have managed many projects and there are good employees but most bad. Bunch of whiners like the wingnuts. Who could blame them, they will be tossed like yesterday’s trash and there is no loyalty to company anymore thanks to free trade. Work with what you got and invest wisely for that inevitable rainy day.
By RW-(the original)
January 3, 2007 01:14 PM | Link to this
There’s a story out of Denver about how they have to get food out to the cows stranded in the storms. It seems that cows will just stand around and die if food isn’t put right in front of them.
My apologies to all the liberals I’ve called sheep over the years, apparently cattle is much more fitting.
By deegee
January 3, 2007 01:18 PM | Link to this
I am old enough to remember the hysteria among the American people when computers became more than just an experiment. Computers were going to throw the country into economic depression as people would be replaced by computers. Didn’t happen, lots of jobs were created and lots of middle class people retired early on what they made in the market on technology stocks.
By GP
January 3, 2007 01:23 PM | Link to this
PlantManager,
My wife was a non-exempt employee, but Bush changed the overtime rules so that she is now defined as an exempt employee. By the way, I suspect that your hard working manufacturing managers were also non-exempt employees who were illegally misclassified as exempt employees until Bush changed the rules. Actually, the large majority of salaried workers who were classified by their employers as exempt were misclassified. More and more workers, especially salaried white-collar professionals, were becoming aware of the fact that employers were illegally misclassifying them to avoid paying overtime. So they began taking their employers to court to collect back pay. Big business was consistently losing such cases on a very large scale, resulting in Bush’s “clarification” of overtime rules.
In fact, no clarification was needed. Employers of salaried employees were clearly breaking the law by classifying non-exempt employees as exempt employees. If the statute of limitations hasn’t expired, your manufacturing managers might want to consider a class-action suit for the overtime pay earned by them prior to Bush’s rule change.
By getalife
January 3, 2007 01:28 PM | Link to this
Um RW(BD’s-clone),
They call you and your friends sheep.
Comprehensive gene missing?
Geez.
By deegee
January 3, 2007 01:31 PM | Link to this
Plant manager, thank you for your honesty. I have learned alot from immigrants and I have seen a work ethic that was lost a long time ago among American unskilled labor. Immigrants work hard for their employer because they want their employer to be successful. They know that if their employer is successful that their job is secure. They also understand that there are a dozen people waiting for their job if they screw up. Hard working immigrants are a source of inspiration to me and I am glad that they are here, legally or illegally.
By RW-(the original)
January 3, 2007 01:33 PM | Link to this
deegee,
Wouldn’t you say there’s something of a difference between a new and emerging technology and mandating higher pay for unskilled work?
That question being asked I’m not one that thinks raising the Federal minimum wage to $7.25 an hour would have one iota of impact, good or bad. As I stated earlier 29 states are already there and hardly anybody works for minimum wage for any length of time anyway. Those that do try to support themselves and a family on a minimum wage salary aren’t going to find $7.25 allowing them to do that either.
The ripple affect from unionized workers hourly rates automatically jumping because of the increase would be another story entirely.
By RW-(the original)
January 3, 2007 01:34 PM | Link to this
getalife,
Who’s they?
By PlantManager
January 3, 2007 01:34 PM | Link to this
getalife, everyday when I go to work I try to insure their jobs by doing what I can to enhance their productivity. And everything is in place to give them the tools they need to be productive. Beyond that I have little control. As for me I am approaching my second retirement so I have little to worry about. My military pension is a little over 4k a month and other things have gone well for me. In your case I sense an underlying resentment of some sort. Anyway I hope that things get better for you.
By PlantManager
January 3, 2007 01:43 PM | Link to this
GP while you are technically right, the reality of those type actions will be that companies will just close shop and take it overseas and everybody loses. Unfortunate as it may be, we are stuck with global realities. Holding the proverbial gun to the corporate head in this day and age will only get you unemployed.
By Chazman
January 3, 2007 01:49 PM | Link to this
Remember when the American with Disabilities Act was passed, how the right was all against it because it would close the doors of all these business because they couldn’t afford it? You remember how it was. “Hey, if they can’t work for me because they can’t get their wheelchair through my door, screw ‘em. They can find somewhere else to work.”
All we heard was how all these business would close. It’s the same thing Wooten is using now. Scare tactics. Does anyone remember a business having to close because of the cost of having to put a hand rail in the bathroom so a person in a wheelchair could use the bathroom? I didn’t think so.
By time for the truth
January 3, 2007 01:56 PM | Link to this
maggot brain
The R(abid W(anker) the aboriginal or should that be R(esident W(anker) the aboriginal and the sullenly haggish Butch Danish are really quite sad buggers. Thus they should should immediately marry one another in homo loving Mass - once their respective actual gender(s) have finally been determined. Anyway it sure is fun goading such witless turds who endlessly pretend to be left of centre conservatives. Given their systematic, unspeakable brainlessness its more likely they are just a couple of singularly inadequate leftist trolls trying to stir up trouble for us real true conservatives.
DEATH TO LIBERALISM and all that!
@ jim’s a queerpicker … perhaps it’s time to ponder desperately jumping under that MARTA train now I’ve posted some more of my trademark, decidedly avuncular style which conistently proffers ‘stylistic panache’ and witty “bite”.
By Tara
January 3, 2007 01:58 PM | Link to this
PlantManager,
It’s too bad that this generation that is a long way from retirement, but who will have worked just as hard as you, won’t have the same kind of financial security in retirement that you’ll enjoy.
Yes, there is resentment out there. My parents, with only a high school education, had a better life than their parents. My siblings and most of the people of my generation have a lower standard of living than our parents and are living with economic insecurities…regardless of education, intelligence, productivity and work ethic. Consider the 10,000 plus people who will be laid-off by AT&T after merging with Bellsouth. Consider how these layoffs will affect the ones who will stay behind. Consider what will happen to workers and communities if USAir acquires Delta.
You’re fine. Good for you. But, hoping things get better isn’t acceptable to some. I’d prefer that you be part of the solution. I, for one, appreciate your military service. But as far as I’m concerned one’s service to our country shouldn’t end when he or she retires from the military or any other career.
By GP
January 3, 2007 02:02 PM | Link to this
PlantManager,
With all due respect, we are not stuck with anything. We live in democracy where the voters have the power to force change, including our trade agreements to include labor standards. I’m sorry, but I don’t agree with your fatalistic reasoning.
By getalife
January 3, 2007 02:04 PM | Link to this
RW(BD’s clone),
Not the sheep.
Plant manager,
In your case I sense an underlying resentment of some sort. Anyway I hope that things get better for you.
No resentment, I am retired.
Just stating the facts is all I ever do.
BTW, blogging is not very productive.
By deegee
January 3, 2007 02:10 PM | Link to this
RW, I can see a difference between emerging technology and raising the minimum wage for unskilled labor. My point is that the American people have developed unrealistic fears about the consequence of change in the socio-economic fabric of our society. I agree with you that raising the minimum wage will have little to no impact on the lives of the people actually working for minimum wage. It will likely raise the overall wage scale for unskilled and semi-skilled workers. I think that we are overdue for that. If companies can pay 600X more for an executive than their hourly workers then it’s time we pay the hourly workers a bit more.
What people should be fearing is the massive amount of debt they have personally taken on and that which the government has taken on.
By Buy Danish
January 3, 2007 02:20 PM | Link to this
I have managed many projects and there are good employees but most bad.
Getalife,
So you think the federal government should come in and force businesses to pay those bad employees more money and reward them for doing a bad job?
No wonder the A$$ is the symbol of the Democrat Party.
Just stating the facts is all I ever do.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Name one!
By getalife
January 3, 2007 02:25 PM | Link to this
lies,
RW and his clone BD are full blown wignuts.
Why are you bashing your fellow cheerleader lovers?
Geez, they eat their own.
By EllieK
January 3, 2007 02:29 PM | Link to this
AJC.com is reporting that Home Depot CEO Nardelli has resigned and is leaving with a severance package worth $210 million dollars. How in the hell can anybody argue that increasing the minimum wage will hurt consumers while executive pay is so grossly out of control? This is immoral, and it ought to be illegal.
By PlantManager
January 3, 2007 02:31 PM | Link to this
Ok GP in your perfect world politicians pass legislation that the hand that feeds them the massive amounts of money they need to feed the bulldog and they throw up tariffs, we tax the hell out of those that go offshore, etc, etc. The reality GP is that it just won’t happen until you, me, the everyday go to work guy can pony up enough long green to satisfy the insatiable appetite for contributions that permeates Washington today. Or MEANINGFUL campaign finance reform is legislated which isn’t going to happen either in our present political system. Look at the 06 elections GP. Have we FORCED anything yet. We damn sure spoke loudly and clearly. But now watch contributions to the Democratic party from the same guys that were financing the Republicans skyrocket. The only way to even illude to that kind of influence for the middle class or the everyday Joe would be to dismantle the present two party system in this country. The way it is now you are damned no matter which path you take.
Tara, you are absolutely correct in everything that you say. I have two daughters that ! has just started her working life and another just starting college. I worry about what lies ahead of them. And my heart does go out to the victims of the AT&T/Bellsouth merger. The employees and the consumers that will get the inevitable shaft and rate increase. The solution is out there. Get rid of the two party system and then you have a fighting chance as GP says to FORCE change. Until then guess what? We are fighting a perpetual “Black Hawk Down” type uphill battle. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are anybody’s friend with the exception of their large contibutors.
By ICEMAN
January 3, 2007 02:35 PM | Link to this
Still won’t getalife,
The only fact relative to you is the fact that you need to follow the advice of your ID. You’ve done nothing but spew left wing ignorance that has not enlightened anyone.
P.S. You’ve got some nerve calling workers whiners. It takes one to know one.
By getalife
January 3, 2007 02:36 PM | Link to this
RW’s (clone),
No stupid, the minumum wage is way overdue to raise it. More money to feed the economy, basic economics but way over your head.
Every post is fact not wingnut spin on the facts. Your ignorant bias gets in the way of reality. I read both sides and reality does have a liberal bias because of the spin from the right. It is getting very desperate for the wingnuts and I will stop reading the spin because it is just so pathetic.
Just listen to what the wingnuts like Jim has to say and do the complete opposite. They have been wrong on absolutely everything.
By RW-(the original)
January 3, 2007 02:39 PM | Link to this
time to be a Moby @ 1:56,
When have I ever presented myself as a “left of center” conservative? I’ll save you time Moby, I haven’t. Keep up your phony act and you may still fool a few people, but your act is wearing thin to the point that it’s impossible to tell the difference between you a caged monkey.
By deegee
January 3, 2007 02:44 PM | Link to this
I just got my first bill from Comcast after they bought Adelphia. The same service is costing me $15.00 more per month. Inflation has cost me more this past year than any meager salary increase has offset. That’s a fact, jack!
By getalife
January 3, 2007 02:50 PM | Link to this
Icehead,
It not about me, debate your facts that differ from mine.
By GP
January 3, 2007 02:51 PM | Link to this
PlantManager,
I don’t think we’re that far apart. I have faith that, with an informed and active electorate, we can force change. As you said, meaningful campaign finance reform is needed. I’d also like to make it easier for other parties and for independents to get on the ballots.
The bottom line for me is that this country is actually run by us, not the politicians. If we’re uninformed or apathetic, then we get what we deserve. In my opinion, we need to stay informed so that politicians represent us, not lead us. Otherwise, as you said, it’s Black Hawk Down.
I enjoyed conversing with you, and like Tara, I appreciate your service in the military. Take care.
By RW-(the original)
January 3, 2007 02:57 PM | Link to this
deegee,
Why don’t you give Comcast a lesson in free market capitalism? It would seem more productive than just complaining about a price increase when you have so many alternatives. Strange that I just got my bill and it didn’t go up at all though.
By Buy Danish
January 3, 2007 03:07 PM | Link to this
Getalife,
My local grocery store pays considerably more than the minimum wage to kids to bag groceries, and they do so voluntarily.
The only people really benefiting from this increase will be the union fat cats. Get ready to pay more for everything, and blame Bush for the inflation that results.
deegee,
When I thought Comcast was getting too expensive I cancelled my service and switched to another company. You too can benefit from the free market!
Also, tax cuts will likely benefit you far more than a salary increase, especially since the government always grabs a hefty share of whatever raise you receive.
By ICEMAN
January 3, 2007 03:09 PM | Link to this
Need to getalife,
Fact1#: You are a lonely, jobless, drug addicted moron that survives off of ignorance pills.
Fact2#: You wish you could have a woman like Buy Danish. Your brainless rants toward her are your way of coping with the fact that she’s too much woman for you to handle on these blogs.
By Lily Toad
January 3, 2007 03:11 PM | Link to this
Alternatives to Comcast: read a book, play a game, rent a video, make love, go out to dinner, write letters, take a walk, pet your pet, call a friend or relative, browse a bookstore.
By getalife
January 3, 2007 03:18 PM | Link to this
BD,
My local grocery store pays considerably more than the minimum wage to kids to bag groceries, and they do so voluntarily.
Good for them.
The only people really benefiting from this increase will be the union fat cats. Get ready to pay more for everything, and blame Bush for the inflation that results.
We already are due to price of energy.
“George W. Bush has been our best president ever.” — Exxon
By getalife
January 3, 2007 03:22 PM | Link to this
Icehead,
Fact #1: You need to get off the dope.
Fact #2 : BD is RW’s wife.
Fact#3 : You are an idiot.
By deegee
January 3, 2007 03:23 PM | Link to this
Hello Danish, I would love to dump Comcast. No one else in my area offers the service. Tax cuts are a joke.
By jbmlaw
January 3, 2007 03:23 PM | Link to this
Dear GP @ 2:02, you are almost correct when you assert “we are not stuck with anything.” That is true in a free market condition, but when the guns of government compel action contrary to what free men would do, we are indeed stuck.
Tyranny of the majority works, or as Dr. Walter E. Williams vividly phrases it, democracy voting on economic freedom is like two wolves and a sheep voting on supper. Too bad we don’t have any documents to protect our freedom from the politicians.
By Buy Danish
January 3, 2007 03:32 PM | Link to this
Lily Toad,
It sounds like you’re either writing your bio for the Playboy centerfold or practising for a dating service.
Getalife,
If Hillary or Obama get elected, give us your best theory as to how they will cut energy costs (without offshore drilling, drilling in ANWR, building more refineries, increasing nuclear energy sources, or other solutions the Dems and a few Rino Republicans reject or demonize.)
By Lily Toad
January 3, 2007 03:41 PM | Link to this
Those of you in favor of tax breaks, how do you think the deficit will be paid off?
By Jim's a Cherry Picker
January 3, 2007 03:43 PM | Link to this
Kevin,
Per our earlier exchange, a timely story from ABC News (Jim is routinely part of the minority megaphone that seeks to impart debate equality on issues that do not merit it…i.e,. just cast some dobut in the air and those who would tend to belive you will have their opinions reinforced):
Jan. 3, 2007 — A new report details what it calls an “enormously successful” disinformation campaign by ExxonMobil that used tobacco-industry tactics to fund groups who cast doubts and deceive the public on the scientific consensus regarding global warming.
The report was released today by the Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS), a non-profit environmental advocacy group based in Washington, D.C.
The report found that between 1998 and 2005, ExxonMobil has funnelled about $16 million to 43 advocacy groups and 16 individuals in an effort to “manufacture uncertainty” and ultimately stall government action that would require a mandatory cut in greenhouse gasses such as carbon dioxide. The group said the figures in the report were compiled from ExxonMobil corporate reports.
“ExxonMobil has, in a cynical and manipulative strategy, helped create a kind of echo chamber to amplify the views of a carefully selected group of spokespeople whose work has been largely discredited by the scientific community,” said Seth Schulman, the report’s primary author, in a conference call today with reporters.
The strategy is built on the notion, the report found, that “public opinion can be easily manipulated because science is complex, because people tend not to notice where their information comes from, and because the effects of global warming are just beginning to become visible.”
The report compared the company’s efforts to the strategy used by tobacco companies to downplay the effects of smoking.
The vast majority of the world’s climate scientists agree that human activities, such as the burning of fossil fuels, are contributing to a greenhouse gas effect that has warmed the globe at an unprecedented rate.
By Lily Toad
January 3, 2007 03:45 PM | Link to this
Buy Danish,
HA HA. I forgot (1) the long walks on the beach and candlit dinners for the dating service and (2) wanting to save the world’s children for Playboy.
Seriously, in Atlanta, Comcast is the only cable company available to us. I cancelled them and enrolled in Netflix. Also, I read a lot.
By Buy Danish
January 3, 2007 03:45 PM | Link to this
deegee,
Bell South DSL/Direct TV worked for me.
Getalife,
Is that 3:22 an example of those “facts” you claim to state as your sole occupation in life?
It’s a good thing this is an anonymous blog, or you could be picked up for consumer fraud.
By getalife
January 3, 2007 03:49 PM | Link to this
BD,
I can’t give you my theory because I don’t have one. I am a sheer dumba$$!
By Lily Toad
January 3, 2007 03:52 PM | Link to this
Speaking of tyranny of the majority, today’s AJC has a picture of screaming Massachusetteans demanding a vote on gay marriage. What are they so worked up about? Why does it impact them? Right-wing Christians voting on gay marriage is like two wolves and a sheep voting on supper.
By ICEMAN
January 3, 2007 04:04 PM | Link to this
Buy Danish and Lily Toad,
I use Direct TV. The only problem I have with it is when there is a severe storm, it sometimes fizzes out. Other than that it has to be the best.
By Buy Danish
January 3, 2007 04:18 PM | Link to this
Lily Toad,
In response to your 3:41, tax cuts lead to increased revenue for the Feds which cuts the deficit.
Also deficits rise when we’re at war and subside when we’re not.
Re your 3:52
It’s the majority of Americans, not just “right wing Christians” who oppose Gay Marriage. That includes Bill Clinton and other illustrious Democrats. The tyranny of the minority is not what our Founders had in mind.
btw, take a tip from a former Mainiac -it’s much easier to call them “Massholes” than “Massachussetseans”.
This could be censored, I’m not sure…
Iceman,
I prefer cable for that reason, but I don’t think it’s worth the extra cost.
Mine fizzles out for very short periods on rare occasions. When I lived in S. Carolina it didn’t work well at all and I was screwed even if the wind blew. Either they improved their service and technology or I just had a poor install done the first time.
By getalife
January 3, 2007 04:18 PM | Link to this
BD,
I am all for ethanol and alternative energy.
You should know that by now.
Nice wanking @3:49 Icehead.
Sigh, got to go.
By JBM is a condescending...
January 3, 2007 04:22 PM | Link to this
No comment for nearly four hours from JBM on his misuse of the socialist label. He would have nothing to say if he couldn’t call all who disagreed with him a “leftist” or a “socialist”.
By time for the truth
January 3, 2007 04:34 PM | Link to this
We’ve had both dish and direct TV … still not completely convinced direct TV is much better than dish although their access to English footy, rugby and cricket is much better than what dish offer. As new direct TV punters we now get the very ordinary Starz completely gratis for a year. And there’s NO $29 call out fee on direct TV for a lightning strike with their monthly PP. Had earthlink DSL for a good while as an old mindspring punter who was forced to switch - but Bell South is vastly better, infinitely more reliable and much cheaper now with the very recent ‘free’ upgrade to superfast DSL + free DSL networking for home PC’s.
Comcast is a sad, sick joke.
Fox News is just as good on both networks though!
Lovely jubbly.
By RW-(the original)
January 3, 2007 04:41 PM | Link to this
Hey! I’m a Masshole now?
deegee,
In all seriousness and with respect to the fine list Lily Toad came up with, you should be able to use Direct TV or Dish. If you’re in an apartment that won’t allow it you should gather a group of residents to complain to management that since they have given Comcast a monopoly and Comcast has exploited that monopoly, that you either want the ban lifted or rent concessions. If it’s a homeowners association that’s keeping you from doing it lobby your neighbors and bring it up for a vote.
By Buy Danish
January 3, 2007 04:41 PM | Link to this
Hey - I think I may have found Getalife’s picture!
Go to the top of the page, and if you have a banner ad for “The Atlanta Boat Show”, check out that guy with the pot belly and some girls who are being paid by the hour to, err, flirt with him…
By Buy Danish
January 3, 2007 04:47 PM | Link to this
By Buy Danish
Getalife,
Re ethanol and alternative energy.
Here’s a fact for ya: So is George Bush.
Next?
By time for the truth
January 3, 2007 04:53 PM | Link to this
The treasonous thuggish commie hag Sheehan has been at it again … this time though with the cut and run demoNcrats. talk about chickenhawks coming home to roost… smirk
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,241137,00.html
By Buy Danish
January 3, 2007 05:00 PM | Link to this
RW,
You were too young to drive when you lived in Massachusetts. I bet you signal before you change lanes, and don’t pull out in front of someone when there’s no one else on the highway, and then slow down to 45 MPH either.
By RW-(the original)
January 3, 2007 05:01 PM | Link to this
Buy Danish,
When you click on the banner ad you get a different view of getalife and his “escorts.” It’s not a pretty site.
By Joe L
January 3, 2007 05:14 PM | Link to this
BD - Ha! There are none so blind as those that would trust the people who have lied to them again and again. Giving lip service to an idea to fool the fools (you are apparently part of the all of the time group) is far from reality.
Efficiency is the first and easiest step to decreasing our fuel and pollution problems. The problem is there’s very little money to be made from efficiency.
By getalife
January 3, 2007 05:15 PM | Link to this
They paid me, I have a huge….
boat.
By @@
January 3, 2007 05:24 PM | Link to this
Getalife:
I’m going to give you something for your 5:15 that I’ve never given anyone else.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
Not because I don’t believe you, but because that was a damn funny response.
Did I do those Ha Ha’s right?
By Buy Danish
January 3, 2007 05:27 PM | Link to this
Getalife,
Dittoes to @@.
By Markus
January 3, 2007 05:28 PM | Link to this
I see our resident neoPinks are all pantypeed over CEOs making money as usual. Waaaah. Who the hell do these neoStalinist liberals think they are trying to tell corporations how much to pay their leaders? It’s not their company, it’s not their money, and they sure as hell aren’t on the board of directors.
Just like good little jealous neoStalinists… let the state run the companies. Pathetic.
By RW-(the original)
January 3, 2007 05:28 PM | Link to this
getalife,
Quite the impressive gut too.
Buy Danish,
I go back every summer and while I don’t pull out in front of anyone and drive 45, I rarely use turn signals to change lanes. That’s from years of driving in Atlanta where a turn signal seems to cause everyone else to speed up and try to cut you off. The Western Massholes are fanatics about using turn signals.
By getalife
January 3, 2007 05:28 PM | Link to this
@@,
Yes, now rub my belly and I will take you for a ride on my huge…………………..
boat.
By Markus
January 3, 2007 05:30 PM | Link to this
A sudden national minimum wage increase to a national level median living wage to $7.25/hr? No way. Right now adjusted for inflation (in 2000 when the wage was increased to $5.15/hr) the wage should be no more than $6/hr. Where do all the liberals and Democrats who support this think that money is going to come from? Out of the pockets of the business owners and companies and not passed on to us in one way or another? Where do they think it is going to go? What about all those increased payroll taxes the smaller mom-n-pop shops and other private businesses will have to endure? What, does the feel-goodness of liberalism not even warrant a real world look into the effects of this beyond that big, nasty, evil profit-making monster known as corporate America?
Do they think all those who make the minimum wage are going to magically lift the economy to the next level along with themselves to some fairytale land of middle class success? What kinds of purchases with this increase are going to raise them up to the next level (as has been claimed by the left) and raise the rest of us up as well who long ago left minimum wage jobs? What kinds of products will they magically be going to buy? New cars? New homes? Expedia vacations? Investments? Savings? Stocks? Bonds? Big ticket durable goods items like large appliances, plasmas, and lawnmowers? Will they be going out to dinner more often and tipping at 20% and giving more solicitation to other services as well? Get real.
I have no problem with setting some standard of minimum wages in this nation. However, the Fed should have no business in mandating a national minimum wage ever, ever, ever. The real issue should be at the state level, not the federal level, as over half of the states have already addressed. In addition, it should be annually indexed to inflation. No more, no less. What reference point defines a “minimum wage” and who defines it? These are the tough questions, but pseudo-econ expert liberals don’t want to ferret out the details. It’s much easier to just stamp something with a number pulled out of their @ss and call it The Way.
How much will $7.25/hr buy you in New York City vs. right here in Atlanta? One can live in Atlanta on $7.25/hr. with affordable apartments and public transportation. That’s income over $1,100/mo. after payroll taxes. But how many can live on that in New York City or San Francisco or even Chicago? How many can live on that in Oklahoma City where there is no good public transportation system and one must have a car to get around? Why should companies have to pay across the board on a federal wage increase because someone with no education and skillset chooses to live in a city that he or she can’t afford?
Miscellaneous points to ponder:
• Where was it written that minimum wage jobs were designed to support a family of four? (nowhere)
• How long do people rely on the minimum wage before moving upward? (a few years on average)
• What demographic groups make up the majority of minimum wage job takers? (the young under-25 at 75%; the rest are second-incomers like starving liberal arts college grads & housewives, and the retired who were dumb enough to buy that AARP Soviet neoStalinist Pravda propaganda and fall for social security as a retirement benefit)
• Why stop at $7.25/hr? Why not make everyone pay their minimal skilled labor $20/hr with full vacation, maternity leave, sick pay, and healthcare benefits?
• How does supporting some kind of set starting wage mean those people* are really free at last (with other people’s money) when he or she didn’t really earn that raise that wasn’t really allocated due to non-increased value to the organization? How much more efficient can they really slice that deli meat?
Reality check – don’t listen to the liberal neoMarxist propaganda machine. A great read on the squeezing out of the middle class. This ‘splains where that class has gone, and it’s not where you think in never-never land according to the liboRATs.
http://www.tcsdaily.com/Article.aspx?id=121306A
By Markus
January 3, 2007 05:36 PM | Link to this
Here’s payback irony. All those liboRATs from Chevy Chase on down that made fun of Ford as a stumbler fumbler never could accomplish what he did athetically, up to and including forgoing offers to play professional football for Green Bay and Detroit. Idiots like Chase and other sorryassed libkook demonrats that made fun of Ford couldn’t hit the side of a barn with a bat. Now suddenly they are nice to his memory. Freaking pathetic.
By getalife
January 3, 2007 05:44 PM | Link to this
RW,
getalife,
Quite the impressive gut too.
My boat needs a large roof to block sunburn.
macaca,
Nice rant, tough day driving the truck?
By Markus
January 3, 2007 05:44 PM | Link to this
RW-
Your 1:14 nearly caused a ruined laptop. Try not to be so realistic and descriptive at the same time again… but you can keep the dead-on irony.
By Markus
January 3, 2007 05:46 PM | Link to this
Part Deux of the disease of liberalism and wages and the economy and class in this nation.
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=122006A
By getalife
January 3, 2007 05:47 PM | Link to this
Last word on Ford.
He made Nixon right, it is not illegal if the President does it.
But we impeach for a BJ while w gets away with murder.
Insane as macaca.
By Markus
January 3, 2007 05:57 PM | Link to this
New results:
Half of all husbands will or have cheated on their wives; over half of women surveyed say they would not marry their husbands again.
Looks like Bill Clinton has his legacy afterall.
By RW-(the original)
January 3, 2007 06:01 PM | Link to this
Markus,
Since it was on my second post of the day I didn’t even get scolded for spewing. Yesterday I learned it takes three over here, unless you’re a bigot in which case you can “entertain” all day.
By Buy Danish
January 3, 2007 06:06 PM | Link to this
RW,
I hope you use a turn signal when you do things like pull into a driveway or a strip mall.
Getalife,
You should have left it alone instead of pulling a PoFo.