Home > Thinking Right > Archives > 2006 > November > 23 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USDon’t make me a cop.
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
When police shoot and kill a 92-year-old woman, as they did Tuesday night in Atlanta, the protest contention is that cops over-reacted. It’s a tragedy, no doubt. But if they had the right house, it’s hard to think that law enforcement officers anywhere in the country would have reacted any differently, no matter their training or professionalism. When officers are taking fire, the natural and trained response is to shoot back until the firing stops.That the shooter was a 92-year-old woman who may have been frightened and confused adds to the tragedy, but — again — if police had legitimate reason to believe drugs were being sold from the house, it’s hard to find fault with their procedures.
I wouldn’t be a cop nowadays. I read stories about run-of-the-mill arguments in restaurants, night clubs and on street corners where most of those involved produce guns and marvel at how seemingly routine it’s become to carry weapons. Or I read stories like the one about the raid on three houses in Gwinnett County where agents seized $9 million in meth and coke — and three guns, including an AR-15 rapid-fire rifle. The streets are dangerous and while officers can be guilty of over-reacting or reacting inappropriately, a slow response can be deadly.
FBI crime data from September documents what our reading of the newspapers lead us to believe: violent crime is increasing. The Justice Department announced on Wednesday that it has selected 18 cities, including Atlanta, to study for clues as to why rapes, murders, robberies and aggravated assault are on the rise, up 2.2 percent from last year, and the first increase in violent crimes since 2001.
The solution? Drug treatment is certainly a part of it. But I relish the day when on matters of destructive personal behaviors, like bringing children into the world without a mother and father in the home or gun-toting and drug use, opinion leaders including the church, entertainment industry, and the media react just as they have to the problem of smoking. Meanwhile, treatment, enforcement and prisons chase the symptoms — sometimes with tragic consequences.
Comments
By Jim Wiley
November 23, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this
In regards to “don’t make me a cop”, I being a police officer totally understand what the writer was trying to convey. I hear it so frequently from people who say, ” I would never be a police officer, I know what I would do if someone shot at me or if someone threatened my life”.
In todays society were weapons are so easily to obtain, it is truly a wonder that more incidents such as what happened with the Atlanta Police Department officers does not happen more often. On every call police officers ride or respond to there is always a gun on the scene. The police officers themselves are armed and that in and off itself is a gun on the scene.
At times police officers are required to do things that most people would not want to do, such as serve a warrant on a possible violent person, deal with a mentally ill person or a drugged out individual.
How many people would like to get out of their vehicle on a hot day and have to deal with a person walking down the road with no clothes on who is high on drugs, not many, but yet that is what police officers have to deal with.
The job is not a simple one, nor is it a routine or easy one, for their are not many jobs were a person goes to work wearing a bullet proof vest and armed with, gun, baton and oc spray.
Police officers would love to go to work, not write a single ticket, not lock a single person up, but that is not reality, there will always be people selling or buying drugs, people robbing and hurting others, at one time or another committing traffic violations. Police officers do a job that is required and needed and at no time are they doing the job to hurt or harm anyone, they are simply people just like anyone else who simply want to do a job they believe in and do a job to provide for their families.
By Diogenes
November 23, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this
Jim,
I realize that the newspaperman’s axiom is “get your opinion in front of the audience quickly before they forget the event that prompted it,” but when police shoot a 92 year old woman, I would think that propriety would forestall an opinion until the evidence is in. I grant that this women is either the reincarnation of Wyatt Earp or she was not the only person in that house, because she hit her targets five times with a handgun, but I still believe decency dictates that one wait until more information is available. Unfortunately, you are correct in your assertion that “When officers are taking fire, the natural and trained response is to shoot back until the firing stops.” Even you are hesitant enough in condoning this tragedy, however, to qualify your support for the killing by saying “if it is the right house.” Jim, I know that conservatives rush in where angels fear to tread, but I think you could easily have held off on this particular endorsement of the Atlanta police department until we all know more.
By Diogenes
November 23, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this
Jim,
I would not want to be a cop, either, and I thank Jim Wiley above for having the courage and even-thinking to do so.
By @@
November 23, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this
Jim? I was thinking that you might have a column about Thanksgiving today. Maybe a humorous little ditty about PETA and turkeys.
But violence in our society occurs 365 days a year and I think you’ve placed an unsavory root vegetable on the table for our consumption.
I think Brian Rohrbough, Father of a Columbine victim said it best on the Free Speech segment of Katie Couric’s CBS News.
We are raising our children in a moral vacuum. God has been removed from our schools. Evolution teaches survival of the fittest. Abortion diminishes the value of life. Secularists were outraged that Mr. Rohrbough had been allowed to exercise his free speech over the airwaves. Offended by what he saw as as the realities within our society.
Katie responded to the outrage by saying that she realized viewers might find his comments “repugnant.”
Repugnant??? What I find repugnant is that adults are limiting our children’s options. Stuffing their open and eager-to-learn minds with sprouts, when they’re in need of a balanced diet.
Shucks Jim, I grew up on meat and potatoes. You?
Happy Thanksgiving to all. I know who I’ll be giving thanks to, and it won’t be Katie Couric.
By Diogenes
November 23, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this
Jim,
Am I to understand from your statement in the last paragraph, “…bringing children into the world without a mother and father in the home or gun-toting and drug use” that you oppose guns in the home? I would certainly hope that you do because the tragedy with which you head this editorial would have been prevented had there been no gun in that house, and the deaths of two children killed by guns found in adult bedrooms earlier this month would not have happened. Jim, if you are advocating gun controls, then you have my absolute support.
By Redneck Convert
November 23, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this
I say, blast away first and ask questions later. From what I can see, that old woman was one of Those People. And Those People are always a danger. The cops shoulda opened up with everything they had, then knocked on the door. It was probly a teen punk dressed like a 90 year old woman anyway.
What with the DeKalb County and Atlanta police killing a few of them every week, pretty soon we won’t have none of Those People. Then we can all sleep without our door locked.
The death penalty is the answer. Only, we were spared the expense and bother in this case. If you all would listen to us rednecks, you wouldn’t need drug raids and all that other stuff to keep Those People under control. And if you all hadda listened to old Strom way back when, we wouldn’t be having cops shot and all the other stuff. That punk musta been a crack shot to hit three cops that way. That proves it was somebody besides an old woman.
Anyway, I’m keeping my eyes peeled for these tricky old women crossing the street. They are a menice to us all. If I see one, I’m going to run them down quick as an Atlanta area cop does in a person trying to run away.
Let me know if the cops need a small donashion to lay in more ammo. And happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
By ?????
November 23, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this
@@ said…”We are raising our children in a moral vacuum. God has been removed from our schools.”
A moral vacuum? God removed from schools?
Who speaks for your moral God?
Ralph Reed? Pat Robertson? Rev Haggart? Catholic Priests? Bishop Long? Mega-Minister? James “Shower” Dobson? Trinity Broadcasting? Wal-Mart? Jerry Falwell? Stephen Baldwin? Benny Hinn?
By JSC
November 23, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this
This 92 year old woman shot 3 Police officers! What were they supposed to do? Just sit there and let her kill them? I guarantee all of these critics would be the first to call for help from the Police if they were in the same situation and then be upset that the cops didn’t shoot. To all of the so-called “community leaders” who constantly complain and blame the Police on excessive use of force in dangerous situations - how about if we just abolished the Police force for you? That way you could deal with all this human garbage yourselves - maybe you can talk them out of robbing and killing you and your family. Thank God for those 3 officers out there trying to make a real difference so you can all live a safe peachful life and I say to the Dekalb officers - keep shooting! When that blue line is gone these “leaders” will wish they had kept their mouths shut.
By the sweet by and by
November 23, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this
. .
I’ll tell you what’s wrong: Ever since they had that confounded shootout at that confounded OK Corral, every single movie ends the same way. Bad guys manage to get off more ordnance than hiroshima and still miss. Who would direct crap like that?
Every single director who ever lived considers the shootout a fair end game scenario genre.
But its not fair to us.
(Look at the ending to Silence of the Lambs).
Please.
But is there really a shootout in every movie ever made?
Yes, every single one.
But Why? So what if evil makes for bad shots, (or do bad shots just congregate around evil so it only seems that way)?
Anyway, we are all mimics. We mimic what we see on the media. Enough of us are recreating the shootouts to ruin our societies.
Life should not imitate art. We may be marching to hypnotic Hollywood drums in lock step with the Iraqis (who march to the islamist’s Aliwood drums).
What if religion bakes in motives of suicide as well as our media bakes in motives of murder? A cultural anomoly is a cultural anomoly.Life should imitate life, as man is living not shooting in it.
Just a thanksgiving point of order and bone of contention, indeed, without the bone, we couldn’t have soup, and without soup, we couldn’t have spooning, and without spooning, Yogi Berra might have taken the wrong fork at a formal dinner which completely embarrassed Steinbrenner so that he fired poor Yogi. What kind of man would treat baseball royalty like that? I hope both Georges have a happy thanksgiving. (and their little dog yogi 2)
Nanci Pelosi landed amoung us like the wicked witch of the west, didn’t she? (she came in off a sweep).
Me to Rumsfeld: Just because you have fruit salad on your chest, doesn’t mean there’s not still some food on your chin.
By time for the truth
November 23, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this
Redneck Inbred needs to crash his “fictional” stolen beer truck yet again - this might teach him some humility, some perspective and if nothing else a long overdue lesson.
Inbred’s posts aren’t satirical at all - they just reflect a deep liberal pig ignorance of the real world and perpetuate vile liberal stereotypes under the decidedly specious cover of disingenuously sneering at conservatives.
To Jim Wiley and his colleagues a cheery cheers for your service mate is due. There are occasionally very uppity officious/aggressive cops who look to nick anyone for anything but overall most cops do a great, sadly increasingly dangerous job on our behalf for not enough pay.
Liberals more than any other group - but liberals obviously aren’t entirely to blame - are both directly and indirectly responsible for the corrosive erosion of civility, respect, self discipline, crime levels, drug abuse etc. It all stems from the rather frenzied breakdown of moral standards back in the drug crazed hippyish 60’s. And more recent liberal pandering to 15 million or so illegals only compounds ALL the societal problems illegals undeniably cause.
One can be a traditionalist without being religious - happily freedom of choice still exists in the USA - but the lefties in some states are now even looking to cancel freedom of choice.
By Sabrina
November 23, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this
I believe that a mistake was made and that in the end we will find out that it was indeed the wrong house. If not, the police would have mention if other suspects, beside the old woman, were in the house. Why would they NOT know that an OLD Woman lived there? Think about it, they knew everything else….. drugs, address, etc…. How could they NOT know this KEY Piece of information? What if there had been innocent children shot to death?
I seriously doubt a 92 year old woman was selling drugs.
It’s truly a tragedy and I hope the victims family retains a great lawyer.
By Think Tank Timmy
November 23, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this
Kramer was doing material during his apology.
By Frankie
November 23, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this
Gun control? If only the police, army, and criminals have guns, then where will we be?
By Moderation in all things
November 23, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this
time for the truth (1140),
Your comment, “Liberals more than any other group - but liberals obviously aren’t entirely to blame - are both directly and indirectly responsible for the corrosive erosion of civility, respect, self discipline, crime levels, drug abuse etc.”
I thought the conservatives had created the downward spiral into degenerancy through their lack of respect for the opinions of others and the belief that their religious righteousness exempts them from having to “treat one’s brother as oneself” and that their political orientation excludes them from the need to “do unto others as you would have them do unto you. ” But that’s an opinion.
By Diogenes
November 23, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this
Frankie,
Safe. Just as Jim suggests.
By time for the truth
November 23, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this
If this nasty old woman - undeniably nasty as she could have easily killed three cops just doing their job - could hear the sound of the door being broken in presumably she could hear the cops saying “police - we have a warrant”. None of the bigoted activists has (to my knowledge) bleated about her being deaf … she obviously wasn’t senile as she immediately went for a gun and began shooting, not just once but three times, without asking any questions or waiting.
its robotically predictable when black activist and/or leftist scum to blame the cops in these unfortunate incidents.
despicable types like Sabrina “hope she retains a great lawyer” is typical of many mercenary blacks/liberals looking to make loads of money out of an unfortunate tragedy that the cops are NOT in any way responsible - given the facts as they stand at present.
By time for the truth
November 23, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this
moderate idiot
your comments clearly prove you are incapable of thought!!
I am NOT at all religious, perhaps you WILFULLY missed the point that traditionalism needn’t be religiously informed.
By @@
November 23, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this
?????: Of all those people you listed, do you know whose testimonials I appreciate most? Stephen Baldwin.
Bad boy turned good. Holds noone accountable to his God other than himself. Doesn’t even address political issues like his brother Alec.
Have you ever noticed how angry Alec always is? The other one has all sorts of problems with drugs and such.
But Stephen….that twinkle in his eye and that smile on his face says it all for me. I want some of what he’s got. :-)
Have a great Thanksgiving ??????.
I’m heatin’ up the kitchen.
By Moeration in all things
November 23, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this
time for the truth,
Your comments, “your comments clearly prove you are incapable of thought!! I am NOT at all religious, perhaps you WILFULLY missed the point that traditionalism needn’t be religiously informed.”
QED.
By Moderation in all things
November 23, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this
time for the truth, Sabrina, JSC, et al.
A rush to judgment, just like Jim.
See Diogenes’ comments (1030). That would be “moderation in all things.”
By Curious Observer
November 23, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this
Yet another life lost in this fruitless effort to control the behavior of others.
This essentially redneck obsession with bringing others to heel is the cause of the tragedy, not the three cops doing their jobs. Drug use is endemic to this society. But just as the Carrie Nations of this world sought to eliminate the availability of alcohol, so the rednecks seek to eliminate meth, marijuana, cocaine, and heroin. In doing so, they create tragedies like this one, while ignoring the havoc wrought by the far more pernicious (and legal) alcohol.
The shooting of this old, frightened woman is yet another instance of a misguided set of social policies. Instead of outlawing such drugs, why not control them and reap the tax benefits? Instead, we choose the route that leads to the death of an old woman and the wounding of three police officers.
Pope rednecks is right in one sense—the rednecks of this country, including the ones who control Georgia, seek to impose their own values on everybody else, much like the Taliban.
Let me make it clear here that I have never used illegal drugs and that I don’t understand the compulsion that leads thousands of people to consume them. At the same time, I don’t understand a social/legal policy that allows people to intoxicate themselves with alcoholic beverages, but imposes severe sanctions on those who choose another medium of intoxication. If there is criminality associated with drug use, it exists because we have chosen to impose it. Let’s not point the finger at an old woman or those three cops. Instead, go look in a mirror.
By Think Tank Timmy
November 23, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this
Sounds to me like curious O is one cat who shoulda inhaled.
By Think Tank Timmy
November 23, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this
Continentally challenged and challengingly incontinent Cheney’s new theme song, after his “Devil Wears Prada” choice of a Blue Tie for Nancy, and after he is surely witnessing the carnage on the ground in Iraq is “Suddenly I Pee”.
By Think Tank Timmy
November 23, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this
Jim Wiley: naked people high on drugs on a hot day? Spring Break? Where do I sign?
I woulda made a great cop. That’s for sure, that’s for dang sure.
By Aquagirl
November 23, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this
Yep, another casualty in the “War on Drugs”. But who cares? Now suburban parents can maintain their illusion that their children aren’t using drugs. Conservatives can flap their jaws about law and order, and we can continue our hypocritical ways. Surely one old lady is worth that.
Why are police breaking into old ladies’ houses, instead of preventing crooks from breaking in? They’re all busy trying to regulate the private behavior of consenting adults. There is no reason, as curious observer pointed out, that we should criminalize one drug, while others are legal.
By time for the truth
November 23, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this
I note that moderate idiot makes NO attempt to address any of my earlier detailed points and then just lamely parrots back my second post.
moderate idiots ignorant, unsupported empty assertions about conservatives just evince another mushy liberal brain bloated with obtuse leftist bile.
moderate idiot completely ignores the fact that in several leftist run states freedom of choice is either denied after legal votes in state wide referendums/elections or denied by leftist state legislatures denying the right of citizens to have certain questions put to the electorate because leftist legislators dont like the prospects of a very likely outcome after a free vote! (see Assachussetts and homosexual marriage as one example).
By Think Tank Timmy
November 23, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this
The Born Again Stephen Baldwin: have you heard his take on religion? He makes up words about being saved in every detail of his life. Example, you ask? I cant remember exactly, but “my oatmeal this morning was saved-alicious”, is not beyond him.
He needs to be blugeoned and and then forced to watch sally fields mug through the last act of her career.
me 2 Sally: The eybrows shouldn’t move in good acting.
By Moderation in all things
November 23, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this
time for the truth
Happy Thanksgiving.
By Aquagirl
November 23, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this
A Baldwin is never, ever a good thing.
By Think Tank Timmy
November 23, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this
hey OJ. Nicole called. She wants her life back.
By Think Tank Timmy
November 23, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this
OJ is as finished as Kramer is. I wouldn’t want to hear another bit from Kramer. He’s this century’s Fatty Arbuckle, who was ruined when his name got associated with a coke bottle as marital aid. Then there was the pubic hair on the pepsi can, or was that coke too? I cant remember nothing anymore. Pube on the pepsi is exactly the sort of thing a man like Justice Thomas would torture his underlings in their fine underthings with. It’s good that there’s a black man on the supreme court, but i have no respect for justice thomas. I believed every word of Anita Hill’s testimony about him and think she should be the one on the court, not him.
I’m lingering because we have to go over the river and through the woods yet to grandmas house, and I cant get my wife out of bed. It’s 2:30!
By pcouch@gmail.com
November 24, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this
In reguards to the 92 year old woman getting shot. This is what we have to thank the “War on Drugs” for. I can hear the police identifying them selves now….whisper….police. Bam, the door gets kicked in.
If I hear someone breaking down my door in the middle of the night, I plan to shoot as many times as possible.