Thinking Right

By candide

November 21, 2006 08:08 AM | Link to this

What a warmongering s.o.b!

By Craig

November 21, 2006 08:09 AM | Link to this

Truly a silly column, Mr. Wooten. Full of straw men, and typical right wing whining, and lecturing the American public. Your conclusion is incorrect. If we are attacked, we will fight. No one disagreed with our efforts to conquer Afghanistan and capture bin Laden. However, if we are led into a war against someone who was never a threat to us, a war with no plan for victory, and no explanation as to its’ reasons or plans, then no, you shouldn’t expect the support of the American public. Your effort to fault the American public for our decision not to support Bush’s neocon pie in the sky fantasies about remaking the middle east, is nonsense.

By jbmlaw

November 21, 2006 08:20 AM | Link to this

Good morning all. There is irony in that the military draft issue arises mere hours after the death of the single greatest proponent of the all-volunteer army. I generally part with my conservative friends on the various national service proposals. I think there is no more noble profession than warrior, but I also think a huge portion of our population is totally unsuited – intellectually, ethically, and psychologically - for the field. Inflicting those people on the military professionals merely inhibits good performance by our armies and navies. Pay whatever market requires for our true needs, and keep the incompetent people out.

To the larger question of national service, I oppose, as a corruption of markets. If you must compel service, I propose we pay prisoner wages for draftees into the “national hole-digging-and-refilling agency,” to ensure we do not screw up the productive portions of our economy. We would then appreciate, on the front end, that we are stealing two years of our citizens’ lives for no useful purpose, and thus would diminish national income by that 3% of the anticipated career earnings. The potential value of such a service is that it would expose the true value of government services to a larger portion of the population, and perhaps would yield more intelligent political judgments.

By jbmlaw

November 21, 2006 08:24 AM | Link to this

I just realized, I neglected to address the substance of Jim’s argument, which I would paraphrase as “our leftists lack sufficient backbone to fight a real war.” Ditto.

By Captain Freedom

November 21, 2006 08:47 AM | Link to this

Shorter Wooten: “Damned hippies”

Megadittoes to you, Mr. Wooten, we should have finished off those dope-smoking fairies when we invaded Kent State.

Further, your statement: “That thinking will never succeed in constructing a foreign policy that amounts to more than missiles-to-mud-huts, bluff and finger-wagging.”

Indeed, and I blame to comsymp hippies for this result in Afghanistan. Truly, it is the hippies who are to blame for bin Laden still being on the loose.

Megadittoes and semper fi. Wallah wallah boola boola.

By Jeff Gannon

November 21, 2006 08:49 AM | Link to this

In Iraq - the strategies are go big, pull out, go long.

My buddies here at the White House say go big and go long.

By sct

November 21, 2006 08:53 AM | Link to this

Leftists? Are you calling the 63% of the Americans that oppose this war leftists? Please explain!

You people are so out of touch with reality. This is why you got slammed so hard this last election. Wake up. The American people are sick of the whole Iraq mess. Its been a failure and disaster from the beginning, starting with the lies.

Its the incompetence that has isolated Bush in his own little world. And its the incompetence that has the public so angry.

If 63% of the public continue to voice their displeasure of this war and all we get in return is “stay the course” from this administration, you most certainly WILL have a Democrat as President in ‘08.

30% of the American people favor this war. Wow, 70% of Americans must be evil, pinko, Sheehan following, hippie, bin laden loving terrorists. That must make Jim sad.

By Southern Democrat

November 21, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this

Does no one else find it ironic that Jim and others criticize the left for being unpatriotic in one breath and then state that “We have become a timid nation, frightened by the threats, but unwilling to confront them in ways that put this generation at risk”? That sure sounds unpatriotic and/or anti-American to me.

One correction, too, of Jim’s disingenuity: Pat Tillman was killed in Afghanistan, not during the so-called “Iraqi phase of the war on terrorism,” (and could you please tell me when this phase will be over so that I can tell my friends whose sons are being sent over for their third tours in February and cry each night? and also what the next phase will be? I hear that we can find some weapons of mass destruction in Pakistan and North Korea, in case y’all are still looking).

As I have said on this blog before, Jim’s and others’ insistence on continuing to defend the invasion of Iraq and the conduct of the war and occupation there in spite of all evidence that it was executed by the president and secretary of defense in the worst manner possible is a dangerous, blind loyalty (to what I’m not sure) and, at best is a remarkable display of persistence in the face of all logic. It is tough to have a debate on the merits when the mind is closed.

By @@

November 21, 2006 08:57 AM | Link to this

Jim:

I’ve always favored the draft, and foresaw future problems when it was done away with. Cast aside in response to anti-war activists of the Vietnam era.

Nobody likes war, but it is a certainty that we should be prepared to encounter. In an ideal world, it wouldn’t exist.

But then, in an ideal world, neither would Hitler, Moussolini, Hirohito, Bin Laden, Ahmadinejad, or Kim Jong Il.

The problem America’s anti-war activists have is in their comprehension and perception.

“I have seen the enemy, and the enemy is us.” They take the “us” to mean the U.S.

And yes Jim, we are fragile because those who are at risk, are those we love. Those who serve are there to serve the one next to them in battle, while we sit thousands of miles away feeling helpless.

By Southern Democrat

November 21, 2006 09:05 AM | Link to this

One last thought. Who’s really lost the “stomach” for war, Jim? Is it the left? Or is it this administration that told us in the weeks after 9/11 to “go about our lives as normal”? That gave tax breaks while spending billions on the war so that we wouldn’t realize the cost until they were out of office? Or do you think it was difficult to assess how much “stomach” Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Rice had when none had served in combat?

As I said a few weeks ago, the Neo-Con Amateur Hour approach to foreign policy is officially over.

By TDJones

November 21, 2006 09:06 AM | Link to this

The premise of this column lack intellectual honesty and ignores the real issue. JW states that “No war, however just and necessary, can long be sustained when the cause is subsumed in the suffering.” I propose that no war can long be sustained when the justice and necessity of the cause is seriously suspect.

It’s not that the left, or another group you wish to stereotype and dismiss with one word (the left, leftists, libruls) “lack sufficient backbone to fight a real war”, its that many in this nation, regardless of political leaning or philosophy have either believed from the start that this war lacks legitimacy, or have come to believe so over time.

I suppose it depends on what your definition of what “is” is. Oh wait, sorry, it depends on your definition of what “real” is. I have no doubt that the right in this country cannot be convinced of this, but the overwhelming weight of the evidence points to the proposition that the action in Iraq has little or nothing to do with an overall war on terror. If you extrapolate that out to its logical extreme then you come to the conclusion that without a connection to the war on terror then it must necessarily be viewed as a distraction from the war on terror: an unfortunate distraction entered into without sufficient thought or planning.

In point of fact this war appears to have proved more of a threat to our safety rather than having the effect of making us more secure.

What are the results? Think of the amount of money spent on this folly and where that money could have been spent. It could have gone to solving the baggage scanning problem recently reported. It could have gone to beginning a program to secure our ports. It could have gone to beginning a program to secure the numerous nuclear devices that the world has lost track of. It could have been used to help secure our border, both north and south. In terms of manpower, those men and women could have completed the search for Bin Laden, which although a symbolic victory at best, would have done wonders for our image in the world and at home regarding our seriousness to truly fight terrorism. They could have been used to finish the job in Afghanistan so that the reemergence of the Taliban we are now witnessing could have been avoided.

It is the height of intellectual dishonesty to ignore the breadth of feelings that fuel the opposition to the war and dismiss its critics as lacking backbone. It’s equally dishonest to equate an opposition to this war as a lack of patriotism. Yet it seems that many feel a need to distill genuine Americans lack of support for this misadventure into a one sentence explanation (or more appropriately a one sentence indictment) rather than deal with the fact that this war effort, as envisioned and implemented by this administration and its complicit Congress was flawed from the start.

It’s not that Americans lack the backbone to wage war; it’s simply that we have no tolerance for the incompetent manner in which this war was began and administered.

By Jim's a Dummy

November 21, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this

Hi Jim,

Again, I hate to revert back to my original handle, but there’s no way around it.

For the enjoyment of your reading audience, can you please review the military accomplishments of:

George Bush Dick Cheney Donald Rumsfeld Paul Wolfowitz Karl Rove

War is a horrible thing that has been mutated by the GOP into somekind of glorious effort, no matter the aim.

That could not be further from the truth. What the GOP has done here will resonate for generations as cynicism on high…

That people do not want to die fighting for George Bush’s well-heeled political contributors and his glorified PR campaign should not come as a surprise. Attempts to politicize that fact are ignorant.

By Curious Observer

November 21, 2006 09:15 AM | Link to this

When I was growing up, the military draft was a fact of life. I joined the Marine Corps upon high school graduation because it was either that or wait for my draft notice. Of course, the children of the well-to-do could hide behind college deferments. They could then complain mightily later when the returning veterans received some hiring preference.

I don’t recall anyone’s claiming that our military at the beginning of the 1960s consisted of a bunch of misfits, nor do I recall hearing military training professionals say they were burdened with incompetents.

The “incompetent” argument against the draft is a straw man.

By all means, institute a universal military draft—this time, with no exemptions for college attendance or other dodges the comfortable classes have traditionally used.

Doing so will not only spread the service burden equally among the classes but also help instill some discipline in our society. I’m reminded of the need for such discipline daily when I see selfish jerks proceed in the wrong lane to the head of a line of traffic, then demand to be let in, or attempt to buck a line in stores and restaurants. Military personnel know how to handle and correct such insults to decency. I’m also amazed when I read comments from draft opponents to the effect that they are much too valuable to waste on the military.

The draft issue should have nothing to do with the popularity of the war in Iraq. It should have everything to do with patriotism, a notion of duty to one’s country, equity, and the virtue of self-discipline.

By JK

November 21, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this

Let’s see… the draft was a good thing back when girls were girls and men were men, but if a Democrat suggests it, then it’s an insidious poison pill? Hmmm…

“Democrats can never be trusted to occupy the White House and run government during times when the nation’s security is threatened.”

What a sad, petty commentary, even for Mr. Wooten. The statement lacks historical basis, but is rich in partisan sour grapes. Indeed many 20th-Century Democrats stood tough on national security through some of America’s darkest, scariest hours, and even had their own warmonger in chief, Lyndon Johnson, who perpetuated a stupid war and left 58,000 families to grieve.

I’m sorry that Mr. Wooten and his silly followers view the majority of Americans in such an unflattering light because we expect something better from our foreign policy than this current nonsense. Since Mr. Wooten repeatedly gets it wrong when stating how “the left” feels about the military, let me clarify MY stance: Our men and women in uniform deserve better than this.

By 'Muff Said

November 21, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this

Wooten’s column today is not about the draft. It’s about the “Iraqi Phase of the War on Terror”.

“The Iraqi Phase of the War on Terror” implies that Jim Wooten knows what the previous phase was, and what the next phase will be, as well as the larger parameters in which this war on terror is evolving.

We have a consequence-slinging-dynamo spinning out of control in Iraq like some Tasmanian Devil working a Rube Goldberg machine.

Next, Jim will blog about the East Coast, West Coast rift between the Shia Militia Bangers in Iraq. Have you capped a mullah today? Dont wear that camel hair herringbone burka in Fallujah! (It’s potato sackcloth or they OJ you).

The Iraqi Phase of the War on Terror is Bushspeak: ‘muff said.

Bushspeak: ‘muff said.

Go long: not an option. Go Strong: Not an option. Go home: the only option. The pentagon was being kind, believe me, by showing three options. They know there’s only one: Devil take the hindmost.

By time for the truth

November 21, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this

The lemming like gutless cowardly extremist pinko scum have succeeded in undermining the military with endless drive by media sneers and the hate America drip drip drip of treasonous neo-com (congressional) lefties bleating their often hysterical anti-military lies and bile, surpassed only by the unremitting Bush hate propaganda.

Lefties are undeniably craven appeasing filth, thus now the rest of us have to endure two short but potentially utterly disastrous years of demoNcrat control. At least the folks will get to see prominent congressional baby boomer Army and USMC hating cowards and the elite media transfixed on their campaign to defeat America as the age old enemy within salivates and drools like a mangy mongrel muttdog rolling over and gleefully playing dead on the global stage for the pinko network cameras.

Neo-commie sicksters like Sheehan and the traitorous tub of multi-millionaire marxist lard Moore et al have a fleeting political victory which they will almost certainly choke on fatally as the folks see that this is what the party of hate actually is all about. A triumphalist appeasement of America’s true enemies - all in the name of gleaning a few blood splattered cliches of worthless venal encouragement from the likes of Chirac, Putin and Annan.

We desperately need another truly patriotic visionary genius like Sir Ronald Reagan to lead us out of this impending burned out quivering hippie quagmire of moveon.org dastardliness.

By regulator

November 21, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this

Rangel is wrong for this reason, even when there was a draft, kids whose parents had money, almost always got out of it, The prime example being George Bush, so they had no reason to fear it then and would have no reason to fear it now.

By Joshua

November 21, 2006 09:52 AM | Link to this

“the military and policy-makers who would use it for something other than road-building and humanitarian relief to Third World countries are dangerous predators, apt to scarf up the nation’s poor and march them off to build empires abroad. What’s more, the normal give-and-take of democratic debate and biennial elections is insufficient to restrain their aggressive desires to colonize the world’s raw-material producers.”

Speaking as one who proudly served…exactly! I don’t see how this is even debatable, but then again, that’s probably why I’m on the left.

Oh, you misspelled “insufficient.”

By Olesarge

November 21, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

If my history teachers were telling the truth, REPUBLICIANS were in the White House when we lost our wars, Eisenhower for Korea, Nixon for Vietnam, and now Bush for Iraq. Wasn’t FDR a Democrat? Something called World War II? Jim, Jim wake up and smell the coffee please.

By sct

November 21, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this

Jim, when are Americans allowed to speak out against a war?

We need some ground rules so we can be your perfect war loving American.

Would the following quote be ok? Or does it hurt the cause? Maybe this was from a hippie. Cindy Sheehan? A leftist. A war hating Democrat for sure, notice this criticism is A WHOLE MONTH into this conflict. Must have been a Democrat. A WHOLE MONTH. This person obviously lost his patience for war. After ONE MONTH! What were you writing about during the Yugoslavia war Jim?

“I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today” —Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

By Camus

November 21, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this

“Democrats can never be trusted to occupy the White House and run government during times when the nation’s security is threatened.”

Perhaps Jim has forgotten which party held the White House during World Wars 1 and 2?

By sickntiredofwoot

November 21, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

Woot you’re so right. Why don’t you volunteer to go over to Iraq and defend our “timid nation” (your words, not mine). When I see you risk your life against the Iraqi “threat”, whatever that is, I’ll read your mindless knee-jerk tripe again.

By getalife

November 21, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this

Rangel’s point was there are few from this country sacrificing for this needless war.

They come from rural or inner city low income families. The signing bonus has been increased to $40,000 and $80, 000 for college. The standards have been lowered and yet they still need more to enlist.

With w and cheney talking about military options for Iran, North Korea or more troops in Iraq, there would have to be a draft or they should should STFU. They won’t so they must be impeached.

KO said it best, watch the video: “It is a shame and it is embarrassing to us all when President Bush travels 8,000 miles only to wind up avoiding reality again”

Vietnam part two.

Pathetic.

By Dusty

November 21, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

Well Jim,

I hope you are wearing your bullet proof vest today. Every timid, sobbing liberal sissy has come forth today to say how delicate are Americans. That our volunteer army should be lowered to the level of war protestors and some too ignorant to learn as Sen.Kerry (D) put it. It is like a wake for the young people of our country. Don’t fight for your country unless they make you.

Cindy Sheehan, Jane Fonda, the Dixie Chicks and bitter Democrats should be proud. They have helped turn a large portion of this country into a surrender, collapse and run if you can group.

“Drop-outs”, you can post every excuse in the world for not supporting your country but you still are NOT doing it. Excuses don’t cut it. You can blame Iraq, the president, his cabinet, Republicans,even mismanagement, but it is you alone who are the weak link in the protective chain. Jim Wooten has upset you because he tells the truth.

Some of you need to remove your American flag. You don’t deserve it.

By Chazman

November 21, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

America may well have lost its capacity to fight a war that extends more than a few weeks

As I recall, America had a strong capacity to fight this war after a few weeks. And a few months. What about over 3 years, Wooten? Three years of numerous failures? How dishonest to state “more than a few weeks” when you know it’s been over 175+ weeks.

Reflect on the stories that have come out of the Iraqi phase of the war on terrorism. They are, by and large, devoid of heroes and of heroic actions. They are instead of things gone wrong, such as the friendly-fire death of Pat Tillman, the NFL defensive back who turned down a multimillion- dollar contract with the Arizona Cardinals to join the Army.

Also, as I recall, the first we heard of Pat Tillman and the war was that of him being a hero. It was played up all over the country and all over the news. And rightfully so. It was “heroes and of heroic actions” as Wooten said.

The negative news came later in the fact the military lied about his death, to the nation and his parents, and then tried to cover it up. It was, in the words of Wooten, truly “things gone wrong.”

For Wooten to suggest the Tillman story was an example of the media showing only the negative and void of any hero speak, shows either incompetance or dishonesty. Take your pick.

By Joe T

November 21, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this

We have become this way simply because we have lost our values. Now we call evil good, and good evil. Wish more would read the scriptures on this and other things which really matter. There they can find the truth.

By Chazman

November 21, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

Dusty,

Would you please make a comment on the quote in sct’s 10:02 post. We are all anxiously awaiting to see if you agree with Tom Delay’s words.

If you don’t agree, that’s OK. We would just like to see you say that you actually do not agree with a republican. But we would like to see you respond to Mr. Delay’s obvious unpatriotic comments (in your view, of course, according to your past posts).

By mark

November 21, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this

Jim, you’re gutless pandering to the (shrinking) far right who support this war is shameful. Open your eyes and read your own paper. Or better yet, talk to the military leaders and high ranking REPUBLICAN leaders and REPUBLICAN pundits who now admit this war is a disaster. The “left” (e.g., the almost 70% of Americans now opposed to THIS war and think George Bush is doing a horrible job) are not anti-military or gutless. We just don’t like throwing our soldiers into a meat grinder day after day because a fake cowboy president who never saw combat had a chip on his shoulder and decided to lie us into a war of choice. It was Bush and his administration the decided to cut and run in Afgahistan (where yes, we should be fighting — they harbored Bin Laden!). It was Bush and Rummy that sent our soldiers to Iraq, ill equipped, under-manned and with no clear goals. Our soldiers deserve better than this and American deserve better than this administration. George and his cronies call themselves partiots and Christians. Well, patriots plan for victory and don’t send just enough troops to fail. And Christians don’t lie. Your column is an insult to our military people and anyone with a mind that is open.

By zeke

November 21, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this

Right on the money! Leftist, hippies, flower children, communist, fascist, marxist, lenninist and in short democrats are only after the destruction of a free capitalist system of rewards to the dilligent and successful! They idolize Castro, Chavez, South Africa, Zimbabwe and the Euro socialist governments! Penalize the successful and redistribute to those who do not educate themselves, work hard, be persistant and take care of themselves! Take private property for foolish projects to just enhance tax bases, etc.

By Dusty

November 21, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this

Chazman,

I don’t have time for your brain dead, repetitious requests this morning. If you want to know my answers, read my 10:08 post. I post under Dusty, which means I am not Tom DeLay. Why don’t you ask HIM what he means? Or could you remember if he told you?

By Chip H

November 21, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this

Jim, your argument today is below your standards and you should know that. Still on vacation? If what you said was true why haven’t liberals risen up in opposition to the war in Afghanistan. Those opposed to the war in Iraq know it is the wrong war and we should have never gone in there to begin with. Afghanistan was truly a legitimate battleground in the War on Terror. Iraq only became a battleground because we created a breeding ground for terrorist there.

Somalia’s impending collapse into the hands of Islamic extremist and probably the future home of another Al Quaeda safe harbor is more a threat then Iraq ever was.

If you are going to spark a debate Jim, please make it a real one and don’t do what you just accused congressman Rangle of doing

By Hope

November 21, 2006 10:33 AM | Link to this

Jim Wooten,

We should all loose the urge to fight and kill people. Violence is the number one killer in this country and you can’t solve problems by fighting.

I believe Rangel is correct about the draft. If you thought your lovely grandchildren (boys & girls) would be fighting in Iraq, North Korea or Iran someday, you would not be so big on WAR. If you have grandchildren you are probably already preparing their college fund.

I’m ready to sign your grandchildren up for the DRAFT. What do you say about that? Without a commission……..

We tell our children everyday, that you can’t solve problems with violence. What do we tell them about WAR? Oh, it’s okay - they are only terrorist and their lives mean nothing. Or we only drop bombs on houses WITHOUT children or women.

By Pope rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda I

November 21, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

The blood of innocents will not wash away the crimes of Bush and bin Laden. This is a phony war - bin Laden is a criminal, and Bush is a criminal for destroying a country to not catch a criminal.

By Captain Freedom

November 21, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

Thank God for Patriot Christian White Men like Zeke. After the flood of pathetic bedwetting by Islamocomsympfascists who spew their little “facts”, at last the Captain finds himself in the virile company of Manly True Believers (in a 100& heterosexual kind of way, of course).

(And while Dusty’s heart is in the right place, she is a not-man, and is correctly ignored, no matter the merits of her post, which are naturally few, and therefore affords me no support of any value. And TFTT embarrasses everyone, whether they agree with her or not, so there’s no support there; and of course, TFTT is yet another not-a-man, so who cares anyway?)

Yes, with Zeke and the Captain bravely on the front lines of the War on Terror, we can defiantly stand up to these “reality-based” America-haters with our well-packed codpieces and Mission Accomplished banners. Markus and Realist…please, gird your loins and join us in our brave fight against dark skinned tyranny here on the Wooten Blog. For without us, deeply pigmented swarthy types might someday blow up your favorite shopping mall or Agricultural Expo.

By getalife

November 21, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

The great American patriot, Pat Tillman and his family are against the Iraq war.

It sickens to see Jim use his name to support his pitiful argument. Shame.

The majority of American people are against this pathetic, disgusting decision by the worst President ever.

They must be held accountable.

By Captain Freedom

November 21, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

Please Dusty, do not run and hide like a little girl when challenged by pinkos like chaz. He asks your opinion of Klinton’s pointless military strategy against the Yugoslavenians. Do not run and hide, step up and answer the little commie. Here’s how:

“It was wrong because it was ordered by the Clenis and he is a bad man who got honked off by a fat Jewess. Plus, his wife is an ugly d**.”

No one could refute Right Thinking logic of this nature. Rush and Hannity score big points using this kind of rebuttall all the time. If only you were not a weak not-man person, you might be of some value to the conservative movement.

Unless you can contribute to the Broodmares for Jesus crusade? Nah, I thought not. We’ll have to get our Quiverfull elsewhere.

By Mark

November 21, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this

Interesting that the usual chorus who post in lock-step with Jim are silent today. I hope some of them opened their eyes and now see this president for the disingenous liar and terrible leader that he is and see his war in Iraq as the waste it has been. Our brave men and women in arms have been thrown repeatedly into a failed strategy by incompetent leaders who themselves — almost to the one — never saw military service. Maybe others of them realize, Jim, that you went too far with this one. Americans aren’t affraid to fight. We’re just too civilized to fight for causes that aren’t just. This war in Iraq is not a just war and most Americans know that now. And some of us knew it three years ago.

By Pope rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda I

November 21, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this

The Pope spent a decade working in the defense industry as the Cold War ran down. The conventional weaponry of the US military is based on the concept of mass destruction, the very thing we are supposedly fighting in the War on Tare. We have bombed and blasted Iraq back to the Stone Age, and there is still war there, worse than before. A war started by chickenhawks, who have no concept of the power of the weapons of mass destruction they have set loose upon the world…

Americans will answer for all the innocent blood. The Markanuses and Andi/es of the world thankfully will have no children, but Americans someday will have to atone for our follies and the monstrous annihilation of innocents.

By Dennis

November 21, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

Jim Wooten wrote, “The nation should have an honest debate about the obligation each of us has to public service.”

I agree.

And we should begin with having an honest debate about the responsibility of the mainstream media to report the news honestly and accurately rather than trying to manipulate Americans into some particular mold suitable to the powers that control the media. Jim included.

By Dusty

November 21, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

Captain Freedom,

I am not an undercover agent like you. Or simple minded like Chazman. Since you know all the answers and have given a reply, why should I bother? And what are you? Investigating agent for the unanswerable Chaz? I don’t feel like fooling with you either. Take your charade elsewhere and MYOB.

By Redneck Convert

November 21, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

After dropping out in the 5th grade, I joined the Air Force because the draft was about to get me.

Anyway, after taking some tests that I didn’t like, I spent my time passing out supplies in a tent on Guam and riding my motor bike to the golf course. It didn’t hurt me one bit. When I got out, I was lucky enough to meet the missus because I had the only car she could fit into.

The military made me what I am today. As I drive around in my beer truck, I think about how good I’ve done.

I say put all the libruls and Those People in the military. Let the good conservatives stay home and get rich, like me. Maybe when the libruls get out they can buy their own trailer and work for us. We are better at running the country anyway. And maybe a few more wars can rid this country of libruls.

Except for TFTT. Don’t let him near the army. It’s pretty clear he’s a sicko. And if Markus still has that pile-on cyst, the army don’t want him neither. Who wants a smelly butt around?

A note of special thanks for Dusty. I bet that old gal has a chest full of medals from her military days. She sure likes war. And she knows what she is talking about. I hope she keeps blasting that librul JK.

By Captain Freedom

November 21, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

Freedom IS my business, Dusty. And when a weakkneed sobsister like you poses as a conservative and FAILS MISERABLY to engage a simple debating point as offered by pinko Chaz, you make the entire conservative program appear weak. And if conservatism fails, then America dies.

Either fight the fight, sister, or get back to the kitchen. These are dangerous times, as Mr Wooten so rightly points out, and your weakness only emboldens the Democrats and other terrorists.

By Fulton

November 21, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

It looks like the 63% of AMERICANS that oppose the war are simply now making an educated decision, regardless of party line. Once you take a moment and look at the FACTS, any sane thinking person MUST re-evaluate the situation because wrong is wrong & chyt still stinks, no matter how you pretty you present the package. As long as a war-like mindset exists, mankind will never ascend to it’s next level in the evolutionary progression, this is clear evidence that we only use 10% of the brain. It’s been said; you must know your past in order to ‘effect’ your future. Even with all of our religious blatherings and technological advances, we’ve STILL learned nothing about the value of life. Be careful, because we are de-volving…

By MELO

November 21, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

Did you, Jim serve in Vietnam, because u look old enough to have served, Mr Conservative? Or in the national Guard for that matter, where our erstwhile Prez was in(or out of, if u believe old legend)

The conservatives want to use the military for their pet projects abroad, but prefer to use kids from poor backgrounds, who are in the military predominantly to get college money, and not their own kids. Bringing back the draft will ensure that, even now, as we fight in Iraq, George Bush’s kids would be in the forefront of fulfilling their father’s dream of a democratic IRAQ in the middle east!

Thats Leadership by example!

By Trevor

November 21, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

Dusty,

You are a terrible American. Your posts disgusts me. I love the US of A, I moved here from South Africa to escape apartheid. When I became a citizen 5 years ago, I learned what true Americans did in order to create this great nation. You, sir, do not fit the bill. You are a blind loyalist, and would have been an apologist for the British colonization. Why do hate America so much that you put othis disguize as such a great patriot? I voted for President Bush in both elections because I thought the war on Terror was a noble fight to bring democracy and equality to people around this planet. I have awaken to reality, sir, it is past time that you awaken to reality as well. Good day and ZGod bless America.

By Trevor

November 21, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

I meant to say 15 years ago..when I became I citizen…not 5 years ago. Thank you

By Chazman

November 21, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

Dusty,

What a surprise that you will not comment on Tom Delay’s treasonous & unpatriotic comment. Can you believe he and other republicans did not offer FULL support to Commander-in-Chief Clinton during a time of war, when our soldiers were in harms way? How dare they hate our country like that!

I knew you would not comment on Delay’s statement. That would admit a republcan making a mistake. I figured you would use the Delay-is-not-my-representative-I-do-not-live-in-Texas excuse. (Like that has anything to do with it). Instead you used the ol’ braindead/Why-don’t-you-ask-him deal. Smart.

By the way, I read your 10:08 post. The fact that you’re blaming Cindy Sheehan, Jane Fonda, and the Dixie Chicks is hilarious. My, I didn’t know they had so much power to control the thoughts of the people of this country, seeing how Jane Fonda is so much into the news and all. And the Dixie Chicks? They were barred from Clear Channel stations, so just how did they get the word out? And everyone knows Sheehan us just nuts, right? Nobody would listen to her and take her seriously, right?

Or could you remember if he told you?

Now why would you question my memory? I have a fairly good memory. For example, I remembered that your earlier posts slams any American that critisizes the presidnet as unpatriotic, but it was OK while Clinton was president.

C’mon Dusty. You can do better. Can’t you?

By Dusty

November 21, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

Captain Freedom,

You forgot the funny charade! I represent myself and what I believe. Your business is undercover humor, much like Rednecks. Why don’t YOU go back to the kitchen and play your little games?

I don’t like war any more than any mother with four sons, one of whom has already been in the military. So demote yourself to private, dear Captain, and stop preaching. You are not suited for it. Liberals don’t make good preachers.

By Captain Freedom

November 21, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

MELO, you pinko fool, Mr Wooten proudly served our nation in Vietnam. And unless he becomes a Democrat, the value and honor of his service can never be questioned. So back off, pinko.

As for Our Leader, you liberals always complaining that he never went to Vietnam. Well, now he has, just this week, and you are all still complaining. Nothing makes you people happy.

And you, Trevor, are a typical foreign dope. Dusty is not a “sir”. Obviously, this mistake undermines everything else you have to say, just as Dusty’s not-man-ness makes her every scribble irrelevant to the debate.

And no Dusty, undercover is the place YOU should be, there or in the kitchen. Honestly, is Mr Dusty such a pansy that he lets you ignore your Biblically mandated obligations to cook and breed?

By Captain Freedom

November 21, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this

Another thing, MELO,

Sending the Bush twins to Iraq in any capacity other than pleasure women would only serve to undermine our efforts. Drunken, chain-smoking, proto lesb!ans have no place on the field of battle. No sir, unless they are sent to shake their oft-photographed floozy patches at the USO lounge, better to keep them stateside boosting the fortunes of the tabloids and condom stock prices.

By Camus

November 21, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

“Liberals don’t make good preachers.”

I’m certain that Jesus, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King, Jr. would be surprised by this assertion.

As to the fine Conservative Preachers in history, hmm, let’s see: Father Coughlin, Jim Swaggart, Pat Robertson, Jim Bakker, Jerry Falwell, and oh yeah, Ted Haggard.

Shame on anyone who would declare faith the property of any one political creed. That goes for both the Taliban and you.

By Trevor

November 21, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

I do apologize for the “sir”, I would like to say “ma’am” instead. I’m new to Thinking Right, Captain Freedom. I also see through your disguize. You are comic relief, a cartoon of conservatism. Yet, Dusty motivates me to speakout, simply because I know she believes in what she writes for no other reason than hate for dissention and love for blind loyalty. Did you support Pres. Clinton before the scandal this whole heartedly?

By getalife

November 21, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

CNN) — “Although Congress is unlikely to follow calls from a top Democrat to bring back the military draft, the United States does have a plan, if necessary, aimed at inducting millions of young men for service.

The Selective Service System, an agency independent of the Defense Department, says it’s ready to respond quickly to any crisis that would threaten to overwhelm the current all-volunteer military.”

By Captain Freedom

November 21, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

Did you support Pres. Clinton before the scandal this whole heartedly?

Thanks for asking, Trevor, as this is a topic I am always happy to address.

No, I never supported Clinton. His superior intellect and easy way with women always made me quiver with impotent rage. I hated him, and all that he stood for…all that crap about social justice and universal health care, when all he really cared about was the next hot p00ntang score.

By Van

November 21, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

Okay, back to the topic.

What is wrong with a National Service Program.

Imagine is everyone, between the ages of 18-28 served two years in National service. With a great many choices of types of service. AmeriCorps, Peace Corps, Habitate for Humanity, and even the military.

I think Charles Rangel has the right idea. Lets teach the kids what hard work really is. We can bring back the WPA and let them work across the nation at community projects. We can use them in a new CCC, and replant forests after the fire season is over.

With this large work force, there is nothing we could not accomplish.

By getalife

November 21, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this

Not a good time to be a Christian in Lebanon.

I would suggest to have your children registar for selective service and get ready to go fight this holy war.

Religion kills.

By Howard

November 21, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this

Jim…the United States has not fought a war to actually win it since World War II…and probably never will, unless our buildings across this country are burning and exploding and fanatics are charging down the streets yelling out “God is great…kill the infidels.” We have the greatest military in the world and most wonderful men and women in the world in that military. But how can they exhibit their greatness and proficiency when we have a leadership, on both sides, that wants to fight a damn war in a politically-correct style and with one hand tied behind our backs?? About 60% of this country is nothing more than a bunch of spineless jellyfish who wouldn’t lift a hand to defend anything and would, if faced with such a choice, would gladly hand over the keys to this nation in a heartbeat, if they could keep their fancy cars, homes, bling-bling, sex, and video games and music and Hollywood!! I look back at stories about the greatness of our nation in winning WW II…and it saddens me when I realize that this country today couldn’t come close to winning a war like that.

By SpaceyG

November 21, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

Craig’s right, Mr. Wooten. Very right. The chance to go out and do the glorious, patriotic battle you are pining for here was immediately after 9-11, in Afghanistan. But W blew it by focusing on Iraq and downplaying Afghanistan. The propagandists in mainstream media, the Defense Dept., POTUS and elsewhere could have made fighting bin Laden and terrorism a truly glorious cause. The neo-cons blew it. Just totally blew it. Now take your foolish column and, well, keep writing. This is an excellent topic actually.

http://spaceygreview.blogspot.com/

By Dusty

November 21, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

Camus,

For one who has no faith, you profess to be an expert on the art of preaching usually associated with faith.

What you missed about Jesus, Ghandi and MLK is the fact that they valued EVERY human being. They preached their faith’s version of love. They can be claimed by all people. And all gave their lives to the heretics who hated them. That is not the picture of most liberals today.

Some liberals today are even saying that dictators can be better than freedom.(Castro and even Saddam). They also think that no conservative can care about other people. That is why liberals today do not make good preachers. They are so often wrong.

By Michael Smith

November 21, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

What is wrong with a National Service Program.

What’s wrong with it? What’s wrong with involuntary servitude? We fought a civil war to settle that question.

By Michael Smith

November 21, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

What is wrong with a National Service Program.

What’s wrong with it? What’s wrong with involuntary servitude? We fought a civil war to settle that question.

By Diogenes

November 21, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this

Jim,

You’ve received quite a number of thought-provoking observations from both sides, which means that your editorial is successful. The purpose of a newspaper (even when disguised as a web-site) is to present the people with sufficient information and/or opinion upon which to form their own opinions.

Ol’ Diogenes takes exception to your premise and to the premise of Rangel. Rangel’s premise is indefensible on the face of it. We don’t need a draft to prevent war. Your premise that our little soiree into Iraq is “just” is also indefensible. We, the American people, see no sound basis for Bush’s War. Being a conservative is acceptable, Jim, but that does not mean that you have to accept Bush’s party line on every issue. The bloggers above, and the American people on November 7, said emphatically “we cannot accept a war for which we see no basis. Give us plausible grounds or get out.” It’s simple. The electorate has spoken. Listen to the people, Mr President; listen to the people, Jim.

By Dusty

November 21, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

Trevor,

I hope that all of us are loyal Americans. I do not have blind loyalty. My support goes to a president who has led us through some very hard times for this country. His accomplishments should not be overlooked.

Wars are always unpredictable. They do not go in ways that we can absolutely anticipate. That is how it is in Iraq where our military fights valiantly for freedom in Iraq and also for our protection from the very people who have slipped into Iraq.

Our president has supported our troops in every way possible in such a huge undertaking. If there have been mistakes, that does not surprise those of us who know that humans make mistakes, no matter how hard they try.

So I support the President. I cannot think of anyone who could lead us any better through these hard times.

There are always skeptics who think they know better. “Forgive them for they know not what they do”. I will hang in there with the president.

By Markus

November 21, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

Well it looks like the usual blog sewer RATs haven’t strayed far from the maze of the sickness of liberalism.

Oh well, I have no use for what the Democrite Pelosicommie party says. Rangel wants to propose a draft to make a point about “rich” kids and “smart” kids not signing up.

Mr. Rangel needs to look at his states drop-out rate, especially in NYC before commenting on “rich” kids or “smart” kids choosing or being able to go to college with parents who can afford it or through a scholarship.

Mr. Rangel needs to look around this nation and see how so many high schools and colleges show an ever-increasing hostility towards military recuiters, and some even going so far as using courts to keep recruiters out (ESPECIALLY those in the limpwristed Pelosicommie land of San Freaksicko).

Mr. Rangel needs to look at how his party, the Democrites, have a history of undermining the military and defense technology spending, and how it’s followers, the liboloon kook demoncats, consistently b!tch, p!ss, and moan about the “military industrial complex.”

Mr. Rangel needs to look at all those low-income kids who choose not (keyword: CHOOSE) to join the military and instead learn a trade like plumbing, electrician’s apprentice, HVAC maintenance, auto maintenance, or go to truck driving school.

That’s right Mr. Rangel: NONE of those in the military are there because they had NO alternatives in America. That is a sick twisted distortion of the truth, but what else is new from the beady-eyed, used car salesmen shiester Jackal Party.

No, I have no respect for what any of these tinhats on the left think. After all, they didn’t win Congress back on what THEIR ideas stood for. Meaningless. Pointless. Absurdness.

By Van

November 21, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

Okay, back to the topic.

What is wrong with a National Service Program.

Imagine is everyone, between the ages of 18-28 served two years in National service. With a great many choices of types of service. AmeriCorps, Peace Corps, Habitate for Humanity, and even the military.

I think Charles Rangel has the right idea. Lets teach the kids what hard work really is. We can bring back the WPA and let them work across the nation at community projects. We can use them in a new CCC, and replant forests after the fire season is over.

With this large work force, there is nothing we could not accomplish.

By Markus

November 21, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

Barak Obama calls for troop withdrawal starting in six months. Wow. The entire freaking world is sitting on pins and needles wondering what Obama thinks of the situation. I mean, according to our horseass liborat media and Hollywoody, Obama is a DemoGod who’s record in Congress dates back from the JFK days. Have an orgasm for peace day? To hell with that.. let’s all have an orgasm for Obama.

By Van

November 21, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

Michael Smith,

Gee, if thats how you feel, that there should be no giving back to your country, thats you right, but the left leadership thinks it is a good idea, Charles Rangel will be the Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee.

BTW, the draft during WWI, WWII, Korea and VietNam was not considered involuntary servitude, so why would Rangel’s suggestion be any different?

By Bill

November 21, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this

I am neither left nor right, pinko nor facist. Simple one word epithets are tools of the weak-minded and ignorant. They are easy to use and work more to make us feel good about ourselves than to solve problems, help us communicate, or help us to teach or learn. I have studied history, particularly military history, and current events since I was 14, always considering all points of view. That being said, I would like to send you all a passage from Shakespeare that I sent out on April 23, 2003 (Shakespeare’s estimated birthday and deathday). This was not very long after the beginning of our invasion.

From Henry V (the play that gave us the quote “Band of Brothers.”

The King (in disguise among his soldiers before the battle of Agincourt): By my troth, I will speak my conscience of the king: I think he would not wish himself anywhere but where he is.

Bates: Then I would he were here alone. So should he be sure to be ransomed, and a many poor men’s lives saved.

King: I dare say you love him not so ill to wish him here alone, howsoever you speak this to feel other men’s minds. Methinks I could not die anywhere so contented as in the king’s company, his cause being just and his quarrel honourable.

Williams: That’s more than we know

Bates: Ay, or more than we should seek after, for we know enough if we know we are the king’s subjects. If his cause be wrong, our obedience to the kiing wipes the crime of it out of us.

Williams: But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in a battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all , “We died at such a place,” some swearing, some crying for a surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left. I am afeard there are few die well that die in a battle; for how can they charitably dispose of anything when blood is their argument? Now if these men do not die well, it will be a black matter for the king that led them to it;

By Scooter

November 21, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

Jim, unfortunately you are correct. If our media leaders do not agree with a mission they will use every power at their disposal (selective printing of information) to erode the resolve of the electorate and thereby force change through the ballot box. Daily printings of Iraq infrastructure at 30%, 40%… of pre war levels… then silence. Well, not silence but a shift to printing death, destruction and US troops’ transgressions.

How specific do people think military plans should be? Plans are general. Tactics are specific actions to pursue a plan. Iraq plan: depose a dictator who refused to disclose the whereabouts of the WMD’s he had in 1991 and stand up a government nominated and elected by the Iraqi people. Some seem to want their wars micro-managed like LBJ did Vietnam.

Should we continue whacking moles by focusing on a man, Bin Laden, when we are fighting an ideology of victim hood? Oh yeah, democrats are the Shepard’s of the victim hood mentality. We could turn Bin Laden into a martyr tomorrow and it would accomplish next to nothing in the war on terrorism.

We know Saddam had corrupted the Oil for Food Program and had every intention of reconstituting his WMD programs once that corruption succeeded in having sanctions lifted. But, democrats wanted to ignore twelve years of deception and trust the corrupted UN to play into Saddam’s plan? Well, they were all about Iraq’s accountability in 1998, but Clinton was in office then?

By jbmlaw

November 21, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

Dear Mark @ 10:47, you err. We on the right are all with Wooten; we have no cause to disagree, thus no cause to write. We are letting the morons vent their collective spleen. This is one of the funniest blogs Jim has ever motivated in a long time. (It’s all about us – the entertainment value is immeasurable.) More to the point, the Leftists are proving Jim’s argument true. While they all open with hysterical disgust that Jim would say such a thing, they all follow it up with language verifying the fundamental truth of his writing. This is a scream.

Second funniest item on the blog today: Camus’s 11:33 affirmation that Jesus was pro-abortion. (He said he was a liberal, which I think in Camus-speak means “Leftist?” Maybe I misinterpret. Perhaps he was suggesting Jesus was just kidding when he told the prostitute to “Go and sin no more,” or when he physically threw the pimps out of the temple. Heck, Jesus was probably a Marxist-Leninist in Camus’s view. That’s why the ACLU is so hostile to Jesus, because ACLU has no patience for Leftists.) Jesus was pro-freewill; probably liked Milton Friedman.

Third funniest is Trevor @ 11:43; anyone who disagrees with his view of dissension is not to speak. Don’t you guys think about this stuff before you write, or are you secretly on the payroll of Karl Rove, to make Leftists sound silly?

By jbmlaw

November 21, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

Apologies to Diogenes @ 12:45. A brilliant post, written about the time I was decrying the foolishness of the non-right on the blog today. My compliments, sir.

By Markus

November 21, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

Muslim omans removed from US Air flight. Well, it won’t be long before the ACLU jumps on the bandwagon. Naturally, that indirect terrorist-supporting organization, CAIR, has already filed a complaint. Says CAIR:

“[we will] determine whether the incident was caused by anti-Muslim hysteria by the passengers and/or the airline crew,”

Well here’s an original thought: why don’t you people tell your kind to stop killing themselves and others around the entire freaking planet, and you won’t have any more problems?

If they were hijackers and allowed to board, it would have been Bush’s fault. Now that they were stopped and questioned, it’s still Bush’s fault. See, this is why the sickness of liberalism doesn’t need to seep any more than it already has into America.

Oh I know, I know, Rosie O’Pig thinks all those terrorists don’t need to be feared because they all have families too. The sickness of liberalism is a lethal disorder.

By jbmlaw

November 21, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Lest my praise for Diogenes (or for my friend Southern Democrat) be misinterpreted, I don’t agree with them, but I think their arguments are internally sound.

By Camus

November 21, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

Biblical Quotes Supporting the Belief that Jesus Is A Liberal

Peacemaking, not War Making:

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [Matthew 5:9]

Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [Matthew 5:39]

I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. [Matthew 5:44]

The Death Penalty: Thou shalt not kill [Matthew 5:21]

Crime and Punishment: If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone at her. [John 8:7]

Do not judge, lest you too be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. [Matthew 7:1 & 2.]

Justice: Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. [Matthew 5:6]

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy [Matthew 5:7]

But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. [Matthew 6:15]

Greed and the Religion of Wealth:

Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. [Luke 12.15.]

Truly, I say unto you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [Matthew 19:23]

You cannot serve both God and Money. [Matthew 6:24.]

Community:

Love your neighbor as yourself. [Matthew 22:39]

So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you. [Matthew 7:12.]

If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. [Matthew 19:21]

Equality & Social Programs:

But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just. [Luke 14:13 &14.]

Public Prayer & Displays of Faith: And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret… [Matthew 6:6 & 7]

By Lisa

November 21, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

JBM, Trevor never stated that anyone who disagrees with his views not speak. You misunderstood him. However, what can one expect from a liberal arts degree, glorified historian like yourself.

By Diogenes

November 21, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this

Not to engage in or foment a religious dispute, but the essence of Christianity is sound. “Love thy brother as thyself,” and “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” are the true core of Christianity, what made it different than any previous religion. Jesus talked ahout humankind’s relationship to each other. How soon we forget that.

By Jim

November 21, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this

Why do you think that Mr. Wooten “marvels of the vast political divide into which this country has fallen.”

Is it because he and others have choosen to place those who question the conduct and accountability of the current war in Iraq with a lack of support or admiration for our soldiers? I say not. Are these questions by Democrats a display of weakness to confront war on terrorism. Again, I say not.

Mr. Wooten has also forgotten that the “checks by international treaty and the United Nations,” are considered by many to be a key component in the effort to keep North Korea and Iran from starting their own crusade against free societies. Either we support these institutions in the effort by the US to restrain radicals or we don’t — but please Mr. Wooten don’t use them as your whipping boy to make your point. They can’t be useful in certain instances and impediments in others.

It is exactly this kind of rhetoric that has placed this country into such a political divide. Stop with these kinds of commentary Mr. Wooten — it doesn’t help to solve the problems that the country faces. I think it only keeps the debate of a failed Iraq policy away from an honest solution — a bipartisan approach — but a fruitless exercise of a blame game.

By getalife

November 21, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

Its funny how the “neonuts” forget the many reasons given by this failed administration on invading Iraq.

Its your failed leadership stupid.

By Camus

November 21, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

Lisa,

jbm did not “misunderstand” Trevor. He misrepresented Trevor’s post, willfully and with intention. The intention is to establish and indefensible (and utterly imaginary) straw man and then knock it down.

This is a favorite ploy of people on the losing side of a debate. An exceptional example of this practice is the whole of Mr. Wooten’s column today.

By Jay

November 21, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

Quit all the hate towards him. He is right, we are definately a timid nation. Right after 9/11 everyone wanted to go after who did it. A couple months later people were already asking if Afghanistan was our next Vietnam and when we could pull out. We expect all wars to end in a couple weeks with no deaths and all combat done by our smart-bombs. Well, it just doesnt work that way. People rather live in that pre-9/11 fairy tale where they didnt have to worry about terrorism, and pretend that people dont hate them and that we dont have to fight our enemies before they kill us. People cry about Iraq like its Vietnam even though many tens of thousands more Americans died…its not even close.

This nation is soft and that is one of the main reasons why we are targetted. You dont think the insurgency reads about how many Americans want to cut and run and say “look guys, lets step up the attacks, america is already teetering”? Thanks to the liberals, this nation looks weak and is weak.

By Dusty

November 21, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

Camus,

I am sure your intention was not to sound like a conservative minister but you did. As I have said before, Jesus was for all people, not just those who call themselves liberal.

Come to my church next Sunday. You will hear much of what you posted here. Too bad you don’t know that.

By Van

November 21, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

Camus,

Explain how Peacemakers do their job without the threat of force?

BTW, the bible is full of referrences -

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

By Jim

November 21, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

If this nation is weak — and I don’t think that it is, you can only thank the party that has lead the country for the last six years.

By Diogenes

November 21, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

Within his own context, Jesus was not just a “liberal,” he was an out and out radical, which, of course, was the very basis for his conviction for treason.

By Mike Lum

November 21, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

Mr. Wooten, the non-interventionist sentiment is not a new American trait - it dates back at least to George Washington. In fact, the most ardent proponents of non-intervention (what neocons call isolationism) used to be conservatives - Robert Taft for instance. Of course this is conveniently forgotten by “conservatives” of Wooten’s ilk, who, if they know anything of political philosphy, learned it at the feet of Professors Limbaugh and Hannity.

By Chazman

November 21, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

Dusty’s Conventional Wisdom of the Week:

By Camus

November 21, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

Dusty,

I do not doubt that church is an admirable house of worship, and that the language heard there is much like that I quoted. It is the same Bible, after all.

However, jbm found the idea of Jesus as a liberal laughable, so I offered these Biblical citations as example of His innate liberalism. Better to hector jbm’s disrespect of Jesus’ Word than assume (wrongly) that I disrespect your method of worship.

btw, the moniker I chose is not due to the original Camus’ atheism, which was actually somewhat ambiguous. rather, it is an homage to Camus the rationalist thinker, one who values fact and reason oversuperstition and emotionalism.

By TW

November 21, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

Is it any wonder the party of deferments has had a nerve struck by Mr. Rangel? Time for another tax cut to push the electorate’s head back into the sand, boys.

By Diogenes

November 21, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

Camus,

Your comment, “it is an homage to Camus the rationalist thinker, one who values fact and reason oversuperstition and emotionalism” is valid, but incomplete. Camus always grasped and depicted in his novels, the world as existential, the innate absurdity of existence.

By Dusty

November 21, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

Chazman, poor baby,

Still lost and wandering.

By getalife

November 21, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

Jim should of opined on ethanol in Brazil instead of this pathetic spin on his party’s failed leadership.

By Cletus Snow

November 21, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

This country has become a nation of crybabies and wimps we have lost the spirit to defend ourselves.I wasted two tours in Viet Nam defending this nation of spineless chickenshcit.About half of you make me want stand and cheer, The other half make me want to puke.

By Mike

November 21, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this

TW -

The party of deferrments? Are you kidding me? Republicans and conservatives serve in the military at much higher rates than Democrats and liberals?

Why are Republicans the party of deferments? Because Cheney got one? i guess Democrats are the party of deferrment as well because Clinton got one.

Like all liberals, you dont even understand what you are mindelessly hating. Educate yourself, child.

By 'Muff Said

November 21, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this

ew

By Chazman

November 21, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

Still lost and wandering.

Dusty, you shouldn’t talk about your President in such a way. It’s unpatriotic.

By Camus

November 21, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

Diogenes,

At long last, an honest man!

Indeed, Camus emphasized the absurdity of our existence. Yet in what is perhaps his most well-known work, the short essay on Sisyphus, he also emphasizes the possibility and even the necessity of hope within the absurdity.

Truly, Dio, we are engulfed with absurdity in this life. Nevertheless, I intend to embrace hope despite the absurdity. And despite the general pervasiveness of intellectual dishonesty in Mr Wooten’s blog party.

PS - Quite true that Jesus was viewed as a dangerous radical in His time. If He came back today (say, to his original stomping grounds of the Middle East), he would most likely end up rendered to Guantanamo, declared an enemy combatant and a threat to our precious liberty and way of life. No cross this time around, just a waterboard and angry dogs.

By greg seals

November 21, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

Wow. It’s not that I disagree with your basic premise, it’s that your column is a partisan diatribe against Democrats. In case you weren’t aware of it, for the past 6 years Republicans have controlled the executive branch, the legislative branch and the judicial branch (7 of 9 justices were appointed by Republican Presidents). Yet you blame the left for our becoming a “timid nation?” That’s like blaming Jerry Glanville for the fact the Falcons are struggling this season. Your smack is really weak sometimes, Mr. Wooten.

By Rod

November 21, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

THANK GOD THE REPUBLICANS ARE OUT OF POWER!!!

Now, the Democrats can get things right again. Bring home our soldiers who are “fighting” a war that doesn’t exist. They can’t shoot the bad guys, but the bad guys sure are shooting - and killing them.

George Bush is an @ss.

By getalife

November 21, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

We have become a timid nation, frightened by the threats, but unwilling to confront them in ways that put this generation at risk.

OMG, Jim is blaming us for w’s disaster in Iraq.

My goodness, that is like Boner blaming the troops.

Have you no shame?

By Camus

November 21, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

Mike writes: “Republicans and conservatives serve in the military at much higher rates than Democrats and liberals”

Hey Mike, let’s take a look at the proud service records of just some of the prominent Republicans who support your claim, shall we?

The following stalwart defenders of liberty DID NOT SERVE…

ex-Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert

Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey

Former House Majority Leader Tom Delay

House Majority Whip Roy Blunt

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist

Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, R-KY

Rick Santorum, R-PA,

George Felix Allen, R-VA

Senate Minority Whip Trent Lott

VP Dick Cheney

Former Att’y Gen. John Ashcroft

Jeb Bush, Florida Governor

Karl Rove

Former Speaker Newt Gingrich

Former President Ronald Reagan

“B-1” Bob Dornan

Phil Gramm

Senator Richard Shelby

Senator Jon Kyl, R-AZ

Senator John Cornyn, R-TX

Senator Tim Hutchison, R-AR

Rep. Christopher Cox, R-CA,

Rep. John T. Doolittle, R-CA

Representative Saxby Chambliss, Georgia

Former Representative JC Watts

Jack Kemp

Former Vice President Dan Quayle

Former Representative Vin Weber

Richard Perle

Douglas Feith

Rudy Giuliani

Michael Bloomberg

George Pataki

Spencer Abraham

John Engler

Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-CA

Rep. John M. McHugh, R-NY

Rep. Todd Platts, R-PA

Bonus Chickenhawk!! Arnold Schwarzenegger, CA Republican Governor - went AWOL from his Austrian army base to enter a bodybuilding competition.

By Filster

November 21, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

In reviewing all of the comments re the military in specific and war in general, a funny thought dawned on me. I doubt that few, IF ANY, of the regular bloggers have (1) ever served their country as a member of our amred forces or (2) ever served during combat. So many of you base your opinions (and comments) on what you read in the papers or watch on TV. I humbly suggest that the reality of serving inthe military, and especially being in combat, is a far different reality than any of y’all are qualified to comment on. Then again, the right to free speech is, for the msot part, safeguarded by those who served, fought, and in some instances died for that right. before y’all mouth off vomiting up what the “talking heads” spew in their columns and news shows, take a few seconds and think at what price your precious freedom of speech was won and is maintained and then how you prostitute it with your ignorant ravings. Y’all should show some repsect for the privilege that “the military” maintains for you and exercise that privilege more judicously.

By Redneck Convert

November 21, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

Well, I’m just sick of these libruls claiming my President never served.

He was on a secret mission. That’s why they can’t find out where he was when he was suppose to be in the national guard.

It disgust me that the librul Kerry can get credit, when all he done was shoot a few Viet Cong and get nicked for his trouble. But my President goes on a dangrous mission he can’t even talk about and he’s accused of draft-dodging.

One day they are going to let us see them records. Then you’ll all be ashamed.

By Filster

November 21, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

Just saw an articvle entitled “Few in Congress Served in the Military” on the AJC website. Since Vietnam, it’s been a sad truth that folks born or raised in privilege were excused from fighting and dying for their country. Strangely enough, our elected representatives tend to come from precisely that privileged few. Serving in the military instills a sense of service, of honor and duty. I wonder whether twe would be having all of these scandals, on BOTH sides of the political agenda, had the priviledged few had the opportunity to learn service, honor and duty in the military. Makes ya wanna go “hmmmm.”

By Diogenes

November 21, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

Camus (249),

Truly, Dio, we are engulfed with absurdity in this life. Nevertheless, I intend to embrace hope despite the absurdity. And despite the general pervasiveness of intellectual dishonesty in Mr Wooten’s blog party.”

Best response of the day.

By dave

November 21, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

One Statement for Jim and all you neocons: If you are under 42, please register TODAY for the Army,Navy or Marines”. If you are over 42 and have children or Grandchildren that are over 18 yet under 42, please escort them to their local recruiting station TODAY. Then we won’t need a draft. If you support this war and believed in it from the beginning? Then give up your “W” ‘04 sticker and get fighting already! Kill, Kill, Kill! (only if they are Iraqi’s (muslim) what do you call them ?….oh ya…COLLATERAL DAMAGE! But don’t get an abortion! Hypocrites!

By Drew Mancini

November 21, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

As long as there are guys with your mindset out there, Mr. Wooten, the Dems are a shoo-in for ‘08. Your neo-con dreams of empire have been shattered … or did you miss the news on November 7?

By Dusty

November 21, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this

Camus,

If you and Diogenes want to wallow in the throes of intellectualism, that’s OK. It is that absolute nose in the air about”the general persuasiveness of intellectual dishonesty in Mr. Wooten’s blog party” that is so sveltly abrasive.

I don’t believe any engraved invitations to this blog were sent. How then, in the absurdities of life, do you have time to display all your wisdom? Ah, yes, hope, ambiguously lost by your hero Camus, atheist and rejector of oversuperstition and emotionalism. I bet he was a lot of fun.

Well, I must close and go to enjoy the absurdity of my existence. The turkey I am going to cook thinks it is even more absurd. But I have psychoanalyzed his complaints and found that he is valuable even without gravy and dressing. He found the necessity of hope even within the absurdity.

So, happy Thanksgiving to you, Camus. May you give thanks to yourself for your many blessings.

PS.. I read “The Plague” by Camus. It was good without the deep dark analysis. Too bad his “existence” ended at an early age by auto accident.

By RetiredLTC

November 21, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

South Korea faces a grave threat from the North. All South Korean Males between the ages of 18-26 serve. Rich and poor. Periods of service range from 3 years for non-college grads and college grads that choose enlisted service to 6 years for college grads that choose to be officer candidates. EVERYONE participates. If terrorism is the compelling issue of our time…the gravest threat to our national security and survival…shouldn’t the best and the brightest do their part in preserving the safety and wellbeing of this republic?

By English Language Political Foreskin

November 21, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

spins are not pathetic, takemywife, but pathetic is spin.

I dont know what I just said, except for the part where I demanded the surrender of Osama Bin Laden. Please forward this comment to the Pakistani Embassy in Washington DC. Then, forward this same comment to all the embassies in Washington:

“We the people demand the surrender of Osama Bin Laden now. Have a nice day”.

Expect Osama 2surrender when Bush resigns. That’s the deal I made. We get Osama, bush resigns.

Me to W: Please dont torture us with speaking tours after you resign. Begging here.

Me to Osama: (o)

How about the way Hiraldo went after OJ and used resolve that should only have been expressed for Bin Laden.

That’s why Katie Couric will not succeed as anchor. She is strictly entertainment tonite. Last nite Katie broke a story about a Veronica Mars style bus accident that killed three poor highschool girls. But Katie introduced the story as if it were a today show magazine article. It was brutally insensitive, naive, and painful to watch in the extreme. Her tone was pure Rachel Ray Pots and Pans; her narrative all polish and teflon.

They should make remote controls out of nerf. Then we really could throw things at Vick and his stupid sandlot football games. You cant win consistently playing sandlot. Sandlot is a recipe for a .500 season. Mora.

By Captain Freedom

November 21, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

The Captain arrived at this page and found himself in for a shock.

Perusing the headlines to the right of Mr. Wooten’s bulwark of freedom, I noticed this disturbing headline:

The Kimmer is Out, too

Dear Lord, no, I cried, it can’t be true! The Kimmer, Mr. Semper Fi, a friend of Dorothy!??! A limpwristed lisper!?!?! Just another backroom Elton John?!? A talkshow Doogie Howser?!?

Fortunately, the story relieved my anxiety. He’s been fired, that’s all. Thank heavens it wasn’t that other thing. That would be really horrible. He was a Marine, after all.

By dasein

November 21, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

Mr. Wooten, you are overlooking the elephant in the room (rather, in all branches of the government). The war in Iraq was a war of choice and the motives were highly suspect. Why should I trust the men is suits who dreamed up this disaster? The likes of you only have yourselves to blame for promoting an ill-conceived strategy. It’s not the military I distrust. They did what was asked of them by this inept administration. The Republicans are the ones who can’t be trusted with the military.

By Diogenes

November 21, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

English Language Political Foreskin

Re your comment: “They should make remote controls out of nerf. Then we really could throw things at Vick and his stupid sandlot football games. You cant win consistently playing sandlot. Sandlot is a recipe for a .500 season. Mora.”

My word. An honest man.

By Andy

November 21, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

. . Dont facebook the blog.

By Camus

November 21, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this

Dusty,

What you call “wallowing in the throes of intellectualism” I call “critical thinking”. And as just one example of intellectual dishonesty, try this:

Wooten consistently conflates the following terms: Democrat, liberal, leftist. That these three are not equivalent seems beside the point to Jim. Yet he constantly sets up his columns using this boogieman equation. It is dishonest if one intends, as he claims, to encourage an open and spirited debate. Rather, it fuels a nyah-nyah back-and-forth that he then decries as uncivil. Yet, to follow along, the incivility is then lain at the feet of the Dem/Lib/left, and his supporters (like Markus, TFTT, and Realist) are never mentioned for their own contribution to incivility. It is a cycle of intellectual dishonesty.

Further, the right’s dismissal of “intellectuals” is of a piece with their denigration of science. Under the Bush administration, scientists have been replaced by appartchiks and quack theologians to drive a desired policy. Findings that contraindicate the desired policy are suppressed. Again, intellectual dishonesty.

But I will admit, your deconstruction of the turkey’s feelings gave me a good laugh. So, while you may be anti-intellectual, at least you have a sense of humor.

By muffuletta the lib

November 21, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

I agree with what someone else has stated here; if the Left is so determined about everyone joining the service mandatorily to even things out a little, then there should be another service set up to mandatorily join that benefits the social side of this nation. Peace Corps, United Way, Habitat, and others. Every person should spend a mandatory two years in the program while between the ages of 18 and 40. Clean up Chicago, clean up the Katrina mess, clean up Miami, clean up Houston, clean up Detroit. Let’s all dig in together and fix this nation in a mandatory way. It can’t get any more fair than putting the panhandling bums in the streets, hoodlum teens in the streets, welfare queens, and others who fondle the government fun bags to good resourceful work. What a brilliant idea.

One thing that bothers me more than anything else about the modern left is the mentality of telling someone who never had military service that they have no right to speak at all about the matter one way or the other. Well that’s choice. If that’s true, then those who have never attended church should have no say about Christianity, those who have never had a high income should have no say about the wealthy, those who never served in the Boy Scouts should have no say about their policies, and definitely those who have never traversed overseas should have no say in how great other nations are and how bad this nation is.

By jbmlaw

November 21, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

Dear Camus @ 1:11, you misinterpret. Peacemaking [is a conservative trait; war always arises from a perception of weakness.]

The Death Penalty, [Although opposed by leftists, “kill” is not “Murder” as used in the Bible. Change the words, change the meanings. Not that you would intentionally set up a straw man via deception.]

Crime and Punishment [Your citation, you realize, is the one that ends with Jesus telling the young woman to “go and sin no more,” as I cited in my original argument.]

Do not judge, lest you too be judged [Your argument is deceptive, in that you use “judge” to affirm the leftist principle of “avoiding responsibility.” Although we all know leftists would eliminate punishment for murderers and rapists.]

Justice: Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. – just who donates to charities? [Leftists do it by using government to confiscate the private wealth of others; conservatives give their own money.]

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. [We all know how the Leftists treated Karl Rove in the Valerie Plame crime. Not even honestly, no apology for the lies they told.]

But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. [Karl Rove, Valerie Plame – get the picture.]

Greed and the Religion of Wealth: [Greed is a trait of leftists; no conservative envies the wealth of another.]

Community: Love your neighbor as yourself. [This does advocate free love; rein in what you are thinking.]

So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you. [This does not mean tax the productive to pay for your beer.]

Equality & Social Programs: But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just. [Who can give a feast, when the leftists tax everything?]

Public Prayer & Displays of Faith: And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret. [Now you know why you don’t know what conservatives do.]

By Dusty

November 21, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this

Camus has suggested that Jesus would end up at Guantanamo. Wrong.

He would be assassinated right in the Middle East. This just in on the news:

Lebanese Cabinet member, Pierre Gamayel, ANTI-SYRIAN politician and scion of Lebanon’s most prominent Christian family was assassinated today.

These assassins are the type of terrorists we are fighting in Iraq. They have no mercy. They hate Americans and Christians. Do you want to fight them HERE?

By JoeD

November 21, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

Camus at 3:55, I would agree with your characterizations of Jim’s arguments. He has stoked the incivility of the debate for years, but always blames it on the left. Unlike a true conservative, he never takes responsibility for his part in the dumbing down of the debate. And I would vehemently diagree with your use of the qualifier “intellectual”. It is just out and out dishonesty, a hallmark of the modus operandi of the GOP and the Bush Administration.

By Ray

November 21, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

Mr. Wooten….And how many of your grandchildren (or the grandchildren of your friends) have you urged to join the military and fight terrorism in Iraq?

By Blood of Atonement

November 21, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this

Give the Iraqi people Dumbya, Cheney and Rumsfeld. Then beg their forgiveness.

By Dim Liberal

November 21, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

So, jbm, are you saying Dubya was weak, since he started the Iraq war? Andjust how do you know that “leftists” would eliminate punishment for murderers and rapists? Or no conservative envies the wealth of another? Either you know more about everything than anyone else, or you just think you do? What year did you finish Charm School for the Incurably Pompous?

By Camus

November 21, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

jbm’s remarks about Jesus’ teaching boils down to this…

But THEY do it, too!!!

As to your final point: But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret. [Now you know why you don’t know what conservatives do.]

Hey, jbm, I knew that many conservatives were in the closet, are you claiming you are all squeezed in there???

(uhh, it’s a joke son…hey, you’re too short, the good ones fly right over your head…shheeee, nice kid, but not too bright…)

Hey, I guess I’ll keep my day job. But in fact I am a lone progressive in a family full of conservatives. I have loads of first-hand experience. And with Thanksgiving coming up, I’ll get a whole lot more.

By Hope

November 21, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

muffuletta the lib

Don’t forget to make those spoil “rich” brats, stay-at-home & soccer moms - work along side the welfare queens, hoodlumns, etc…

They also believe they are entitled to everything, without having to work for a living.

You can also add, cleaning up those METH Labs in rural GA, Mid-West, etc… along with corporate america, capital hill and the White House. Those are some of the places that also need to be cleaned.

There are two sides to entitlement.

By Dusty

November 21, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this

Camus, intellectual circus man,

If Jim seems to put all liberals in the same category, he has good reason for it. It is like someone saying butterflies come in all different colors so they are not the same. True..but they are all still butterflies. You and your crowd are still one family of similarities.

Has your doctor thrown up his hands and quit? Has your alma mater closed the university doors? Has CDC stopped working? Has stem cell research funding ceased?NNNOOOOO! Not a one of them.

But you think science has stopped with screeching wheels. No way. Just your butterfly way of thinking which is in itself, anti-intellectualism, because it is not honest.

By Pope rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda I

November 21, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

The Pope believes in compulsory national service. Set up a sliding scale - join the Marines, Army - 18 months. Join the Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard - 2 years. Join the Peace Corps, something like the CCC, Vista - 3 years. Pay slides too.

But everybody does it, male and female.

By muffuletta the lib

November 21, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this

Hope,

What group do you think Rangel had in mind to begin with regarding the draft: the rich kids.

By Camus

November 21, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

Dusty,

What do I get for answering your argument with respect…in return, you offer a cartoonish reduction of what I actually said. In so doing, you present yet another example of the very phenomenon I described.

I misunderstood you. I wrongly thought you came here for honest debate. Instead, you aim to score points like some kind of minor-league Coulter or Ingraham.

By RetiredLTC

November 21, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

Everytime that I pass through this blog, my chickenhawk detector goes off. I would be willing to bet that if some of you here were compelled to actually fight the war on terrorism, or that God forbid, your children did, that your threat level estimate would drop dramatically.

By Jerath

November 21, 2006 05:21 PM | Link to this

What would one expect, when the likes of Wooten and others of his conservative republican bend, with their perverse ideology of inequality and rights only of their kind have seige mentality; expounded their propaganda of terror hype, fomentation of hate, fear and republican patriotic feeding frenzy, to control the hearts and minds of a misled and gullible nation.

Go build more walls on the Mexican border, blame everything on some el queda, while the problem is the conservative republican greed creed, Sunday Christian Hypocrisy, bigtory, hate and fear in the minds of these extremist ideologues.

By Dusty

November 21, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

Dear Camus,

what has gotten your hackles up? Because I called you a butterfly? All right. You are a soaring green luna moth (only a close relative of the butterfly). Is that better?

I love honest debate. I am honest whether I debate or not. Since I never read or hear Coulter or Ingraham (honest!) you will have to tell me all about it and why you read them.

Now, Lehrer News Hour, that’s different. He even has intellectuals at times !! How about that!! Did I score a point there?

Don’t sulk. I don’t want to sink your hope in the absurdity of existence. Nope. Not me. Chin up!!

By Markus

November 21, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

Muffy lib-

You have to remember you are dealing with the sickness of liberalism on this board. Obviously your post went over the head of Hope… those “evil rich” soccer stay-at-home moms who would be forced into a mandatory social service don’t live off taxpayer dollars. But the blatant liberal jealousy was sure there.

“Government fun bags.” PRICELESS!

By getalife

November 21, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this

Andy at Mike Luckovich’s blog wrote this crap:

“The “tens of thousands of Iraqis” that Bush “killed” are all suicide bombing, innocent women and children killing savages, so yes, that was my God that wanted them killed.”

How many of you genocidal maniacs agree with this lunatic?

By Markus

November 21, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this

gitmolife-

Since you and your ilk here from the jackal party have failed to denounce death threats and threats of violence to some of us [from you jackals on the left] on the Right, myself included, then I have no comment on Andy’s comment either.

By ndjones

November 22, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

I never had the stomach or heart for war. To me it sounds like Bush surrounded himself with the keystone cops and not a very intelligent intelligence team. Why didn’t they know that unseating Mr. Insane would produce this. And who is paying for it. A lot of kids that entered the military looking for a G.I. Bill and a better life. The ones that entered to seek vengence - I worry about them - seeking vengence is a long way for serving my country. And even if it is 50K Iraqis dead and not 150K dead that’s an awful amount of dead iraqi people - that didn’t ask for us to rescue them. The only thing that appears to be multiplying among the iraqi’s is hatred of Americans and the people that want to either kill us or get rid of us.

And why can’t we get the tall guy with the bad kidneys. Wasn’t he suppose to be the supreme target. He’s all but forgotten

So no - I don’t have the stomach for this dibacle of a war. But our brave young men and women have to stomach it. And they have been given an impossible mission to accomplish. Don’t get me wrong - I think they are doing the best they can and there are many good stories out there. But it is unfair that they are not supported by the administration (equipment and extending their tour of duty - for lack of volunteers) that placed them there. And this sickens me to my stomach.

So instead of you left and right minded people herling insult and insult after each other - give it up. We won’t leave Iraq better off than we found it. They will have a dysfunctional and ineffective democracy and military when we leave. We will either leave too soon or we won’t accomplish putting them back together. And what about our troops that will need to be put back together.

What will we American’s do to make our troops whole - both mentally and physically when they return. Will they be welcomed back and be gainfully employed - or will they be overlooked for cheaper labor.

And if they are hired - and the signs of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome are noticed on the job. Will their employer reach out to help them and possibly refer them to company provided/suplemented assistance. Or will the patriotic employer be sympathetic - but fire him because he was “still in his probationary period” and hire someone that is whole and without problems.

As far as the draft - it would effect the poor and middle class more. I’m sure the better off people that don’t want to thier kids to join will find a way out. It’s not like there is a stream of people at - let’s say - UGA’S recruiting offices - there were four office there in Athens.

You people on the right - I am supporting my troops - but this is war was totally uncalled for - and too expensive - and the price is more than monetary. It’s costing to some extent our civility, manners, minds and souls. So my question to you too feuding sides. How will you support our troops once they return home. Because they are coming home.