Thinking Right

By jbmlaw

September 21, 2006 08:05 AM | Link to this

Good morning, all. I separate from my conservative friends today. I am appalled by immigration quotas, generally. Uneconomic law is unworthy of respect, and the immigration laws, like those that interfere with natural free trade, are unworthy of any nation that professes freedom.

I do not understand why anyone dislikes the Mexicans, and perhaps I misperceive the driving force behind the calls for “strict enforcement” of our looney immigration laws. The Mexicans and Cubans are hard-working, religious, and for the world appear to me to be a joyous culture. I know I am not as smart as the Mexicans, as they speak two languages more proficiently than my efforts with one. We live in a neighborhood with a large Korean immigrant population, and everything I say about the Hispanics would apply to the Koreans also.

Build a fence? I don’t care, seems like a waste of money to me, cutting off our collective nose to spite our collective face. If it will ratchet-down some of the hostility, it may be worthwhile. The true solution is to eliminate quotas on Mexican and Cuban immigrants (and Korean and Chinese and Japanese and all of the other strikingly effective worker-cultures.) Anyone but the French.

By Mid-South Philosopher

September 21, 2006 08:15 AM | Link to this

Good morning, Jim,

“It is the economy stupid!”

And I am NOT calling Jim “stupid.”

We all are stupid!

I am trying to point out that the entire illegal immigrant problem is fueled by the need, “corporatist and otherwise,” for a cheaper, willing worker labor supply. Businesses, from corporate companies, like the poultry industry, to home-owned and home-operated construction, painting, landscaping concerns, to name but a few, are dependent upon this labor pool to take the place of American workers who either will not or cannot work for the slave wages offered. To wit: the poultry company had to raise their workers wage by a dollar to fill some of the positions vacated by the apprehended illegals.

Part of the solution is to secure the borders, I agree, but the greater task, totally beyond the talents of Georgie Bush or Billy Clinton before him, is to reform the American economy.

By Harold

September 21, 2006 08:21 AM | Link to this

“The sweep had the unintended effect of underscoring just how vital those workers were to the local economy” ???

What did they think would happen? These immigrants are not here to loaf and beg. They are here to WORK. Getting rid of them is the same as getting rid of any WHITE worker. Actually it’s worse than getting ride of a WHITE worker because these immigrants work harder than the flunky WHITEs who will work in these types of jobs.

If we could just learn to enjoy a margarita now and then and say “hola!” to people instead of “howdy” this wouldn’t be a problem.

But we are so goddanged SELFLISH that we have to drink a Bud LIght and say “hey y’all” because we are not comfortable with minor changes.

Maybe people will be more comfortable with the occasional “hola” after paying $12 a pound for chicken for a while. That’s how it seems to work with us types around here.

How can anybody get their tightie whities in such a wad about an artifically drawn man-made “border” that honestly and truly means nothing at all!?!??!?!

The USAs days are numbered. Mexicos days are numbered. Argentina’s days are numbered. Canada’s days are numbered. Countries come and go (check that map you have left from high school. It’s half wrong by now) and civilizations rise and fall.

Our personal discomfort with the fall of the USA as we knew it 20+ years ago is our own personal problem. The immigrants are here for a new USA just like our ancestors were in the last centuries.

The indiginous red folk probably didn’t care for teh shift that occurred from the 1500s to the 1800s but hey that didn’t stop it from happening.

ABANDON HOPE ALL YE WHO LIVE HERE

By Mid-South Philosopher

September 21, 2006 08:22 AM | Link to this

I am on a roll!

While many of the illegals are in menial jobs, many skilled craftsmen in a lot of the vocations and trades are working in the American economy.

Yesterday, I laid out over $1600 for plumbing services. Miguel, an employee of a reputable company, did the work, which was top quality, reasonably priced (ouch), and well-completed. Miguel was courteous, informative, and worked like a Trojan on a job that, while I am too old to do, would not be all that attractive were I 35. I didn’t ask him if he was legal!

By Brian Curtis

September 21, 2006 08:25 AM | Link to this

Wooten, that first line of the article should be “What DO you see here?”.

By Inbred Inertia

September 21, 2006 08:31 AM | Link to this

The solution for the poultry plant is to switch to manufacturing rubber chickens. The open mike comedy industry is booming, and the rubber mcnugget never fails to get a laugh. except now. exit stage left.

By Jim Wooten

September 21, 2006 08:38 AM | Link to this

Morning all. Thanks, Brian. I’ll fix it. jbmlaw and Philosopher, the number who come in come in don’t particularly concern me. In fact, immigrations are likely to be the salvation of towns like Stillmore. The question first for me is how to get a handle on the problem of illegal entry. Granted a 700-mile fence doesn’t solve the problem any more than a few National Guardsmen on the border did, but both send a message.

By Van

September 21, 2006 08:39 AM | Link to this

Most folks are missing the elephant in the room.

If a business indulges in hiring illegals, whether knowingly or not, there are consequences. If a landlord, rental agent or broker allows suspect people to rent the property, there will be consequences.

I know, I know, why should good hard working people be penalized. Because they did not follow the law, they hired illegals, they rented to illegals, they allowed illegals. They turned a blind eye to the law and are paying the price.

Unless you feel, that anyone can come into this country, break the law, lower wages in the area, live 10+ per house and use fake documents to obtain driver licenses, defraud the tax man - using SSN’s that are not theirs (tax payer id numbers are not legal for work) to work - is okay with you.

By W is NOT a devil

September 21, 2006 08:40 AM | Link to this

The town of Stillmore Georgia is the front lines in the war on terror. I propose a series of trenches to surround the town, and keep those illegals out for good!

If anything, the fence on our southern border is too meager. Why stop with only 700 miles? At least electrify the fence. Razor wire at the top, of course.

The corporations who employ the illegals are owned by liberals who dont see the threat from south of texas. Osama must have hundreds of cells hidden in tijuana alone. Liberals dont see the threat.

Like take Iraq, please.

By Harold

September 21, 2006 08:50 AM | Link to this

The Rio Grande must be filled with stingrays! It is teh matt3r of n@t1onal s3cur1ty!!!1!1!!

By Jena

September 21, 2006 08:52 AM | Link to this

I understand that illegals are hard working people but this is not the issue. I work for a major hospital corporation and are you aware that there is something called emergency medicaid that illegal immigrants get that not even the average taxpaying American can? I do this work on a daily basis. While people sit and feel sorry for immigrants are you aware that since most of them do not have ss#’s that they can rack up at $300,000 hospital bill scot free, I bet that you can’t. Your house will be foreclosed upon and your credit, i.e life ruined because your actions are traced through that number. So towns that cater to illegal immigrants should be ashamed because although many immigrants work for cheap, they make up the difference in receiving welfare through their children who ARE citizens by default. It’s not hate, it’s sheer mathematics and this epidemic is going to hit everyone financially.

By Joe

September 21, 2006 08:53 AM | Link to this

The town deserves to be hit hard in the pocket for depending on the labor of illegals to be the largest part of their work force. Who did the work before the illegals? We may suffer a bit in the short term with sweeps such as this but in the long term, I think we’re better off. My property value is beginning to be affected by the number rent houses we have that are now occupied by more than one family. In DeKalb its not as easy as it seems to enforce the occupancy rules and evict someone once they’re in. I’d like the local park back also that MY tax dollars paid for and where my kids grew up playing baseball thats now just a third world soccer field thats so filthy with trash none of the local home owning propery tax paying residents will use, they avoid the place. It’s simple, become legal, pay taxes, get automobile insurance, live one family to a house and for Gods sake, stop creating so many Amber Alerts.

By Does Bush wear Prada?

September 21, 2006 08:54 AM | Link to this

The polls show that if you run on an anti-immigration platform you can win. Expect that fence to be real fancy.

Alarming fact: Militias are volunteering in droves to patrol, (independently of the feds), on our southern border. In Iraq they’re called terrorists/insurgents. In Texas they’re called vigilantes. Expect the occasional massacre.

By harold

September 21, 2006 08:58 AM | Link to this

Harold would much rather his tax money provide health care to “illegals” than provide death to Middle Easterners. So yeah, Harold says bandage and dope up them Mexicans all they want and put it on my tax tab!

Why does nobody be outrage about the countless billions of tax dollars going to murder 30,000+ Iraqis (so far) but if we provide a band-aid to somebody who got cut while processing the chickens that we eat, we get all bent out of shape and want a wall built????

By Does Bush wear Prada?

September 21, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this

Do you believe the schtick at the UN yesterday? The Venzuelan Prez did everything but pull out a rubber chicken. He’s a hack, of course. Seinfeld had an episode where a comedian called Jerry a devil over and over for big laughs.

Our real enemies lied. They said that capitalists will sell them the weapons and technology they will use to destroy capitalism. Instead, they’re using the lost Seinfeld episodes.

We should have seen it coming. The Venuzuelan Prez took a comedey class and refused to learn how to handle hecklers or to seque, instead he just wanted to know where to get the boxed set dvds of Seinfeld.

By harold

September 21, 2006 09:10 AM | Link to this

Everybody so upset about illegals racking up hospital bills but everybody still shop at walMart whose employees do the same thing. Put your monies where your mouths are. Stop shopping at the WalMart and Harold will start believing your beef with Mexicans is their “abuse of the system” instead of just a hateful dislike of peoples who are not like you. This is normal, though. It’s the Doubleya Standard again.

By harold

September 21, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this

All the McMansions built with illegal immigrant labor should be bulldozed and rebuilt with verified American labor. The people living in them may be temporarily inconvenienced but in the end it will be good for everyone.

By Van

September 21, 2006 09:16 AM | Link to this

Does Bush wear Prada,

The history of the so-called vigilantes, the Minutemen, is not one marked with violence or force. They are watchers.

The real vigilantes(historical), arose when law enforcement did not do their job. When law enforcement was so corrupt and ineffectual, the people came together and enforced the law.

The illegal immigration problem, from all sides, is why should we allow people to break the law, whether it is the people sneaking across the border or those hiring, renting or selling them.

Also, why should banks set up special programs to loan money to people that do not have SSN’s. To folks that can not provide legal documentation that they are in this country legally.

By Does Bush wear Prada?

September 21, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this

The Bush Bashing at the UN yesterday can be explained.

The Venezuelan Prez helped himself immensely at home yesterday. Internationally, he now is seen as some sort of new third world rising star of the disenfranchised remnants of decades-old US foreign policy.

He’s like the global Don Rickles.

By getalife

September 21, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

Let us send the message they work for us not the Corporations.

We need accountability for the Iraq disaster.

Thank you for your support.

By lee smith

September 21, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this

Harold is one of the best examples I have yet seen as to why this country really is doomed. Wooten is not much better with his idiotic idea that the only thing wrong with mass immigration is that it is illegal.

By Curious Observer

September 21, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this

The fact that the poultry plant had to raise wages in order to attract replacement legal workers tells me all I need to know. It means that the owner(s)were pocketing extra profits while denying a means of living to legal workers. Such owners are American traitors. They willingly lower the standard of living in this country, promote unemployment, and defiantly violate the law for their own selfish purposes.

If the authorities were really interested in enforcing the law, they would have arrested the owners and complicit management authorities, then prosecuted them to the fullest extent. Instead, the burden always seems to fall on the illegal immigrants, while the plant escapes with a mere slap on the wrist.

This is a classic example of why the public should never vote for Republicans. They don’t give a damn about the welfare of this country’s middle and lower classes. Witness the fact that BMLaw and Mid-South are tsk-tsking that authorities should ever interfere in the operation of private enterprise, instead of expressing outrage that a private enterprise would defy the law and blatantly cheat in order to turn a buck.

By JW

September 21, 2006 09:23 AM | Link to this

Harold…your little Harold in the second person schmick was old after the second time you did that months ago, get a new one. yawn

By Realist

September 21, 2006 09:31 AM | Link to this

It amazes me how the left and mexican friendly folks beat their fists on the table about the “letter of the law” as it relates to wiretapping and terror suspect interrogation but oddly turn a blind eye to the millions and millions of cases of illegal immigrants and those who employ them, whom they refer to as “hard working Americans”. I happen to lease office space in a section of Norcross that is predominately Mexican. Having spoken on many occassions with some of the “locals” I can tell you that for the most part, they are not working for “slave wages” as some suggest. Many of these guys are making $15-$20 bucks an hour for skills such as general contractor, sheetrocking, painting, framing, landscaping, etc. Statistics I have read say that $6 of every $10 dollars earned is being sent back to Mexico to thier relatives, in the form of cash. Tax free cash!! While they are here, they bleed every resource available dry. Schools, hospitals, jails, police officers, firefighters and paramedics, are all over burdened physically and economically by these “hard workers”. They settle in an area, and in short order turn that area into a small version of a Mexicn village. These people are not vested into the American culture or in thier neighborhoods, but rather try to adapt the neighborhood to Mexican culture. This is what has so many like me up in arms over this invasion and total disrespect. Places where we grew up with fond memories of small tree lined streets, the city park and baseball field, and the small corner grocery we visited as kids are now littered and overrun with Mexican grocery stores, laundromats, pool halls and liquor stores. The baseball field is now an overgrown weed infested place where 30-40 gather to kick a soccer ball around, though there isnt a goal to be found. The basketball court is ironically missing a hoop, long ago ripped down but of course never replaced. The tree lined streets are now lined with rusted inoperable cars and vans and trucks, with blue tarps and gray primer up and down. The small retiree apartment complex is now the hotbed of police activity on a nightly basis. I dont think Mr. Bush nor any of those in Washington supporting amnesty or a path to citizenship are seeing this side of reality from thier lofty perches. Women are being brutally muredered and dragged by the throat to thier gruesome death by these “hard working” Americans. Children are being abducted left and right, refer to the numerous daily Amber alerts telling us to be on lookout for ???? ???? Sanchez, thought to be headed to Mexico. But where is the outrage, where are the voices of protest?

Perhaps when these multi-millions of illegal but “hard working” Americans begin to vote illegaly and the republicans are on the losing end of it, as they assuredly will be, men like George Bush will see the urgent need to get them out of this country. And dont tell me it isnt plausible or possible. It will take time, but business and economy will absorb the loss and adjust, just as the chicken plant is stepping up wages to address the issue. It will adjust and correct itself, as it always has and always will. I would rather see this country go into a deep recession and recover, than to watch my country get raped and strangled to death by illegal invaders.

I would give up my business and my home and start over with nothing to see those here illegaly jailed and deported.

By getalife

September 21, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this

Nope, they did not even fine them. They trained them to catch the forged documents.

Let us send the message they work for us not the Corporations.

We need accountability for the Iraq disaster.

Thank you for your support.

By Van

September 21, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this

Does Bush wear Prada

Actually, the world loves the little pip-squeak. He is being groomed as the next Castro. It seems that dictators and religious wack jobs, yes, I mean the nutty islamic pig lovers, are held in high esteem.

With all the protests from “nice” muslims, if there are any, I fell much safer.

By Man of Science

September 21, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this

Great passion Realist

By You're right where is Osama?

September 21, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this

Isn’t, “islamic pig lovers” an oxymoron?

I’m so confused.

By getalife

September 21, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

No accountability strikes again

Let us vote for accountability to stop this insanity.

By lucky

September 21, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this

The problem with the article is the biased slant with which it was written. Lou Dobbs had a correspondent in Stillmore yesterday, and the mayor is upset that she was portrayed as sympathetic towards the illegals. Contrary to that, she is glad they are gone but has a million dollars damage to the sewer system to find a way to repair, and was forced to pay for education, social services and extra police services. Yet the chicken plant, Crider, paid no local taxes until this year, and still does not pay property taxes on their plant. And apparently ICE chose not to fine and arrest those in charge who intentionally hired illegals.

I will gladly pay a reward to anyone who can show me one neighborhood anywhere in the United States that has improved and property values increased when the illegal aliens moved there.

By You're right where is Osama?

September 21, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this

Yeah, realisp, very absorbing account of the real problems in this country. You should run for office, man, where you could pull strings and get things done for us misunderstood neo-cons, and we could destroy those bleeding heart liberals who pad are legislation with welfare pork.

All hail! Hail Victory! Hail Victory!

By Van

September 21, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

You’re right where is Osama?

No more an oxymoron, then the morons that think slicing heads off is okay with God.

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

Let’s face it - Crider Inc. is a criminal enterprise. The jizbags that run the company had no idea they were hiring illegals? Please.

Prosecute a few of these chickenplant, construction, maintenance employers under the RICO statutes. They are breaking the law and making good money at it - they are no different than crack dealers.

By Jack

September 21, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

Why did mid-south call Mr. Wooten stupid? I dont think he’s stupid. He’s the only one who makes any sense. Can we cease with the invectives? Cant we just post one comment and let other post their’s and be done with it? Why the name calling, you horrid trolls? How dare you, you stinking devils!! You numb brained numbskulled numbnutz!!! (did I type this outloud?)

By Mid-South Philosopher

September 21, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this

Curious Observer,

While I agree with you that the fact the poultry company in Stillmore had to raise wages is indicative of the propensity of “corporatists” to make all they can off the labor of the workers, I wouldn’t call it “treason.”

The solution is to have strong “labor union” elements working to counter “corporatist” greed.

Now, don’t get me wrong, “unions” can be just as corrupt, overbearing, greedy, and exploitive of their members as any corporation ever dreamed of being.

I use the analogy of fighting cancer. Many of the treatments used to kill cancer would be fatal if not being used to fight an even more deadly foe. Their strife against one another allows the patient, many times to survive.

Both, unchecked “corporatism” or unchecked “labor unionism” are destructive to the economy. Only when the two forces are locked in combat with each other are we, somewhat, safe!

Of course, not all cancer patients survive!

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

Well, rednecks, if we get rid of the illegals, chicken prices will go up - but used trailer prices will go down - so a big win for the typical GOP voter.

By D

September 21, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this

change isn’t easy, and it’s always hardest in the beginning. it took as a while to get into this mess and it won’t work itself out overnight. it’s going to take hard work and commitment by Americans to bring fairness and security back to our country. trust me, the Latinos need us more than we need them, otherwise, we’d be in their countries. if we take a tough,hard, but fair stance towards our immigration problem, eventually the Latinos will come around and start wanting to work with us, instead of using us, bad-mouthing us and laughing at us, as they slowly take over our country from within. their are lots of Americans that want those jobs, but they can’t afford to work there for the low pay because they don’t have relatives sitting at home drawing our own government’s compensation checks and not paying proper taxes to even out the difference. I’ve met plenty of Latinos, but never one that wanted to truly be an American. they want their lifestyle imposed upon us, and when the population of Latinos in this country approaches 40%, I can guarantee you that they won’t be as kind, generous and understanding towards us, as we have been to them.

By time for the truth

September 21, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this

As ever the responses here are mostly of the pathetic pandering kind - especially harolds!! The good news is ICE have also quietly been active over the in Cumming area recently too and grabbed up a number of illegals.

If a country doesn’t have proper CONTROL over its border that country has huge problems that will continue to get worse and worse. Illegals might be here to work although talk to builders in GA and you’ll find its a very mixed picture with at least some beer swilling mexican types doing a poor job and work having to be redone … although in fairness its anecdotal on both the good and bad.

One huge issue is the trashing of the schools, American kids are losing out further on an already often poor education directly because of the illegal invasion - not just in some parts of GA. The huge medical bills, the massive growing crime wave that mexican types are now perpetrating. A legitimate study recently concluded there are something like 400,000 illegal sex offenders/predators - mostly mexican. The gang and drug violence is growing massively from mexican types all over the US. At least 30% of all incarcerated violent offenders including local and fed level are illegal mexican types.

Mexican ambulances every day are dropping off illegals for expensive US treatments - with the ones already here clogging emergency rooms - this is costing at least hundreds of millions every year, illegals are bringing diseases with them that have supposedly been eradicated or all but eradicated in the US

The pandering lefties want to allow at least a doubling of the 15 million illegals already here by offering mostly uneducated semi-literate mexican types the chance at largely unquestioned citizenship - thus facilitating a massive wave of their equally uneducated immediate families to come legally. This also racks up the illegal numbers from those seeking to get in before any such pandering bill is made law. The long term social and economic implications of having 25 million or more poorly educated mostly non English speaking mexican types will be horrendous.

The fence needs to be 2200 miles long and electrified. The staggering amount of illegal drugs brought in by illegals coming over needs to be stopped or at least made that much harder to import. Other security issues such as terrorism are even more important to address.

Funny how the illegal panderers simply gloss over all the awkward facts and points and screech racist at anyone who objects to the invasion. At least 10% of the entire mexican population is living in the US now and its getting worse everyday. They arrogantly march ONLY with mexican flags until that backfires on them … they mostly refuse to learn English and integrate. Many dont have car insurance so we’re all paying collectively for that as well - given the poor standards of driving by illegals. Why should millions of illegals get welfare, free health care for their anchor babies, assistance with housing, college education and many other benefits when many poor Americans are denied such assistance?

An illegal has no business being here … the mexican govt abuses illegals on their southern border and treats illegals vcery harshly - simply follow the mexican model and do unto them as they do unto others … they are racist hypocrites in Mexico City!!

By TheDuchess

September 21, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this

All I know is this…although I’m not trying to live in a small south Georgia town and work in a chicken plant, there are those who live in that region who depend on that job. I’m glad this wealthy corporation had to “raise the starting wage” by $1.00. Now someone (a CITIZEN) who was working at Wal-Mart can benefit and get a higher paYing job. Good for her!!!

By Jan

September 21, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this

If a business needs to hire employees and they advertise a job description and hourly wages and they get no applications- what does that mean? Either 1) there is no one qualified for that job or 2)the wages are too low. If the problem at the poultry plant is 1) then let the plant apply for foreign worker visas. Bring qualified workers into this country. As many as needed from wherever.

If the problem is 2) they will need to adjust the wages to suit the job. Eventually they will get legal employees.

That is the crux of the problem.

If I can’t turn a profit due to the cost of raw materials, does that give me the right to steal those materials?

By Matt Dillon

September 21, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this

By Van

September 21, 2006 09:16 AM | Link to this

The history of the so-called vigilantes, the Minutemen, is not one marked with violence or force. They are watchers.

The minutemen are nothing more than a bunch of beer bellied rednecks that need to get a real job. Just another bunch of white trash racist hate groupers. Probably cowards too. My bet is that in any confrontation they would run like rabbits. That is, if they still could after most of them shoot themselves in the foot.

By Th

September 21, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

One thing I noticed immediately was that the raid was in one of the most targeted Congressional races in the country for Republicans. The guy who financed the Swift Boat ads is running attack ads in the district already and the Republican party is buying time to run attacks against Jim Marshall. Tom Delay said several years ago that the most dangerous people to the Republican party were conservative Democrats. Marshall has a huge target on his back. I have no doubt that the scorched earth tactics of the Republicans would include a raid like this.

By Curious Observer

September 21, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this

Mid-South,

Yours is the weakest logic I have seen since I graded remedial English papers. The assertion that “corporatists” could be counter-balanced by unions is nonsense. Both the plant management and the illegal workers know that the latter have no legal standing. Thus, the workers cannot form a union that can be recognized legally. They know that the best that can happen to them if they try is their dismissal. The worst is jail and deportation. And rival plants know that continuing to operate while paying higher, unionized wages will eventually result in their failure to compete effectively. And any union that tries to picket the plant knows that its members will be arrested.

No, the best solution is prison terms for the plant owners and complicit management, thus setting an example for others who would try to skirt the law. It strikes me as strange that people who are all for “law and order” in other areas are willing to take a laissez-faire attitude when it comes to enforcement of labor law.

By Ice Cream Man

September 21, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

The key it stopping illegal immigration when there is a clear need for workers is to expand the avenues for legal immigration.

That will reduce pressure on the borders, pressures on border agents, damage to the environment (from crossings).

This isn’t rocket science.

If there is a need for workers, then expand the legal avenues so those jobs can be filled by legal immigrants.

By time for the truth

September 21, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

THE WORLD MUST BE ABOUT TO END …AND IF THERE’S A HELL IT MUST BE FREEZING OVER …

a sickening repugnant occurrence if ever there was one!!

I (choke splutter choke) by Allaaaaaargh’s beard this is hard to type … a g r e e with rednekkks

Prosecute a few of these chickenplant, construction, maintenance employers under the RICO statutes. They are breaking the law and making good money at it - they are no different than crack dealers.

hopefully this will NEVER EVER happen again!!

By Minuteman

September 21, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this

If there is an existing need for workers, then the best thing to do to resolve that problem is by expanding the legal avenues for immigrants to come and fill those positions.

This isn’t rocket science.

If immigration laws are too restrictive and there is a need for workers, then the only way those jobs get filled is by those who are willing to bypass the laws.

Open up more legal avenues for immigration, and illegal border crossings will be drastically reduced.

By time for the truth

September 21, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this

I have no doubt that the scorched earth tactics of the Republicans would include a raid like this

excellent news - it shows the lads are finally paying attention!!

By Dusty

September 21, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this

Maybe I am just naive but I think anybody breaking the law should pay the penalty. How can we pick and choose which laws we are going to obey?

If you can pick and choose the laws you want to keep or break, then we don’t need ANY laws. Just wipe out all of them. Is that what some of you are asking for? Or is this another political chance to smear the elected officials of our country?

By ARTC

September 21, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

Sadly enough, it is 2006 and it is still about race. Even sadder is how the rebublican party panders to racists and bigots. I never thought that I’d see the day when these people actually constitute the republican base. Sad and tragic as well.

By Harold

September 21, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this

JW if you sign up for an ESL classes (since all the seats are empty right?) maybe you could learn that you is 2nd person.

And they say the illegals are the ones who refuse to learn Englih.

By Redneck Convert

September 21, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this

Well, maybe if they did a few raids up here in north Forysth County, I could find some of the jobs that the Mexicans have all took. And the contracters would have to pay decent wages. Leastwise I know that my heros Sonny and GW Bush is working hard to crack down on these people that give my jobs to illegal workers. They musta been bundles of raids like this one, but the librul newspapers just won’t cover them cause they are afeared Republicans will get some credit. That’s why I haven’t heard about them.

By GriffinMBABulldawg

September 21, 2006 10:20 AM | Link to this

We have immigration laws for a reason. Without them, we would have a massive flood of people invading this country much larger than the illegal we already have. The United States cannot absorb all those people at one time.

I appreciate the desire of Mexicans and others who come here to work. The work ethic that I see in many sectors of the economy by these newcomers is admirable. It does not negate the fact they violated the law to come here. Aside from the benefits to the labor force, there are considerable negative effects to our country.

Our schools are being inundated with illegal students who lack English skills. This requires school systems to pay for expensive ESOL programs. Furthermore, these children will perform on average at lower levels than their peers.

Our health care system has to provide services to these people even though cannot or will not pay. Instead, the bill is thrust upon the taxpayers - YOU and ME. Illegal immigrants are also more prone to bring communicable diseases here. Notice the periodic outbreaks of tuberculosis which had at one time been eradicated from the United States.

Our prison system is currently housing large numbers of illegal immigrants who are involved in violent crime and drug trafficking. There is an obvious cost issue that we the taxpayers bear. When states cannot build prisons fast enough, the alternative is to release a certain portion of the population before the full sentence is served. I could provide numerous examples of released prisoners who have committed additional crimes.

The great thing about America is that anyone can come here and become an American. This has been true with the immigration waves throughout our history until modern times. Today’s immigrants do not possess the same patriotism and love for our country that native born Americans do. When the USA plays Mexico in Los Angeles, the LA Coliseum is packed with illegal Mexicans cheering against the very country that has bestowed upon them abundant opportunity not found in their native country they left. We must recognize today’s immigrants are Third World people who have Third World values. It takes time for them to assimilate. With the large numbers we currently have and liberals willing to accommodate them, they no longer have incentive to learn English and join the American mainstream.

Companies need to be held accountable for hiring illegals. We also need a double fence along the Mexican border with armed guards with orders to kill anyone who breaches our border. Go to the border. See how illegals have ruined those communities and how they disregard the private property of the land owners.

By Bob

September 21, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

If there is a need for workers, then expand legal avenues for immigrants to come and take those spots.

This will reduce illegal immigration and pressure on the border.

By Dana

September 21, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this

Wow - this is almost as exciting as the in-office discussion of the jumper.

This morning my conservative side is showing - illegal immigration really IS a problem, and pretending that it isn’t is not going to change that. I don’t think the solution will be easy, we are after all a country begun by illegal imigrants. Some of the same people here who are preaching understanding are the same who want the Katrina victims to go home.

I am happy to help those who need help. And yes, I think the average illegal Mexican immigrant works their tail off and I have HUGE empathy for anyone who wants a better life. But I also have friends who are LEGAL immigrants, I work with many. I am involved in the millions of pieces of paperwork they have had to complete, I see how complicated, difficult and bound in red-tape the process is. And it frustrates me to see them deal with crap while I know we have so many here who just sneak in through the cracks.

We HAVE to change our laws and policies, there ARE ways to effectively protect Americans and American interests while still allowing immigration.

By harold

September 21, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

So, the problems enumberated by the anti-immigrant crowd here is

Having them fill out immigrant paperwork is not going to change either one of these “issues”!

SO what is y’all’s REAL problem with the Mexicans? HMMMMMM?

Now about the letter of the law on torture vs the letter of the law on immigrnation. What you dont understand is that peeoples have a concern for human rights that supercedes the law on torture and the law on borders. Human rights trumps all laws. Law that violates human rights must be violated. Administrations that violates human rights must be violated whether they be north korean or iraqi or irani or USAian.

By MLO

September 21, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

Does anyone on this blog realize that NAFTA is a major contributor to illegal immigration? The upper northern regions of Mexico have been the sole beneficieries of NAFTA. Under NAFTA, Mexico is compelled to import corn from the United States that is heavily subsidized. This imported corn deprives millions of Mexicans who depended upon corn to make a living of their livlihoods. And guess what happens when a man loses the means to feed his family. Ending corn subsidies will not solve the problem, but it will certainly help. To give you an idea how hurtful these subsidies are, think about how many tortillas are made and sold in Mexico every day. One in three tortillas made in Mexico today is made from subsidized corn imported from the U.S. We bear some responsibility for this increase in undocumented migration.

By Van

September 21, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this

Matt Dillon,

It is obvious that you have not kept up on what the Minutemen are all about. Your ignorant post shows how shallow you are.

The Minutemen are not there to confront, they have rendered aid to Mexican coming across the desert, while waiting for the Border Patrol to come and pick them up.

As watchers only, they are naturally non-violent, any activity like that is decuouraged and the people are removed if it does happen.

These are people that are giving of their own time to help secure the borders, something Washington does not want to do.

By harold

September 21, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this

CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!

Once Illegal Immigrants are not illegal anymore, you won’t be able to complain! You will just sound liek big racist and will have nothing to hide behind anymore!

By getalife

September 21, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

OMG, I agree with Dusty.

Illegal is illegal in any language.

Too bad the gop has failed the American people although both parties want amnesty. Amnesty failed the first time and it will fail worse the second. Please read the defintion of insanity.

This is a local issue.

By ARTC

September 21, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

You nailed it harold.

By Van

September 21, 2006 10:41 AM | Link to this

Bob,

I agree, after all legal residents and citizens have passed on the work, then we could look into a short term, no path to citizenship temporary worker program.

If the 535 Washington clowns can get their act together, that is.

By getalife

September 21, 2006 10:41 AM | Link to this

NAFTA and CAFTA are Corporate laws designed for cheap labor for business. Very bad for the American worker.

The war on the middle class Americans is one war they are winning.

By Van

September 21, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this

MLO,

Re: NAFTA

Makes you wonder why it is so hard for Congress to address the issue, doesn’t it.

By Mid-South Philosopher

September 21, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

Curious Observer,

Well, I am always open to having my logic strengthened, and you are correct that the labor movement has been neutered over the past several decades, despite what Neal Boortz alleges about the infinitely powerful teacher unions. That is a shame and ought to be changed.

So long as we, the consumers, patronize the “slave wage payers” be they poultry, construction, painting, decorating,lawn care, plumbing, or modern day “super center” companies, we are enabling illegal immigration. As long as Aunt Bertha hires “Chickita” to do her ironing, Grandma Lizzie hires “Solena” to clean her house, and “Honey” arranges for “Lucretia” to babysit the kids while we go play, we are part of the problem.

Incidentally, I don’t eat chicken!

By Barbara

September 21, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

TFTT, your 10:10 post is a riot! LMFAO! That was a good one.

And yes, hell must be freezing over! Our buddy jbmlaw goes lib on us and Dana goes conservative! (Love ya both!)

jbmlaw, I’ve always admired your kind heart on this issue, but the problem, IMO, is not so much with the quotas as it is with the reckless disregard for our laws. If we don’t agree with the laws, then try to change them. But in the interim, we can’t just turn a blind eye to those breaking the law. Yes, we could up the quotas, or do away with the quotas, or come up with some other solution that might work. But in the interim, we must enforce our laws. The world already sees us as a bunch of wussies. Just look at how that pig, Chavez, called our leader the devil, on our soil. And we did NOTHING!. When will this country draw the line and start showing the world that we do have a limit on patience and understanding, and that crossing the line will result in disapproval, removal, or other consequences?

But, jbmlaw, I do agree with you on one point: Keep the bloody french out of here!

Jim, I totally agree with you that the article you linked to reads in a very biased way. Descriptions like “Nazi, Germany”, and “they don’t deserve to be treated like animals” is a bunch of BS. Puh-leeeeze! If we were in Mexico illegally, we’d probably be beaten, tortured, or shot. And if we weren’t killed, our families would probably have to pay a ransom to prevent us from harm. We are too soft on the illegal immigrant issue.

By Matt Dillon

September 21, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

Oh yeah Van? Check this out.

On the ground floor, a United States Army brass band commemorated the victims of 9/11. One level up, not far from the museum’s permanent Confederate Army exhibit, the state chapter of the League of the South (LOS), a neo-Confederate hate group, hosted a barbeque in honor of Colorado Congressman Tom Tancredo, head of the House Immigration Reform Caucus and likely contestant in the 2008 GOP presidential primary. Proceeds from the $15 per-plate fundraiser went to Americans Have Had Enough!, a South Carolina-based non-profit coalition for which Tancredo serves as honorary chairman.

While Tancredo’s hard-line “deport ‘em all” stance on immigration has made him a favorite politician of white supremacists, this marked the first time the congressman has appeared at a hate group event.

Dressed casually in a yellow t-shirt, Tancredo addressed the standing-room audience of 200-250 from behind a podium draped in a Confederate battle flag. To the congressman’s right, a portrait of Robert E. Lee peered out at the crowd of Minutemen activists, local politicians, and red-shirted members of LOS and the Sons of Confederate Veterans. The Confederate trappings of the event found a mismatch in Tancredo’s standard nativist polemic, which stayed clear of references to Southern heritage or direct plaudits for the LOS, a Southern white nationalist organization dedicated to “Southern independence, complete, full, and total.”

Yeah buddy! These Minutemen are just a bunch of do gooders…huh Van?

By Liberal

September 21, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

Finally a Wooten has come up with a good issue. What clouds the illegal immigration debate in this country is:

1) The inherent racism in SOME of those who vehemently oppose the large influx of Latin Americans into this country.

2) The cautious political correctness of SOME of those who fully support open borders.

I have no problem with Mexicans, Central Americans, South Americans, or their language. They speak a western language like English and contrary to popular opinion, they DO attempt to learn English.

Also, since the Monroe Doctrine, through the Cold War, the US has vehemently suppressed and discouraged any sort of solid economic development/reform in those countries, creating huge underclasses in Latin Amercian countries. This is definitely the case of “the chickens coming home to roost.”

I think, as do most people, that the vast majority of illegals come here to work hard and find a better life for their families. However, no one can deny the strain that illegal immigration places on local services in regards to education, policing, and other city services (illegal immigrants DO NO GO ON WELFARE). The federal government will move slow in solving the problem because it is local and state governments that feel the effect of illegal immigration.

We need to implement a solution to stem the flow of illegal immigrants and find a way to allow a portion of those who want to work here, to do so through a guest worker status, where they will still pay taxes. We also need to deter businesses from hiring illegal workers. Don’t forget that the US already has a large pool of unemployed workers who would be more than happy to collect a paycheck working in construction or carpentry. While doing this, we also need to be good neighbors and to not completely villify and dehumanize those who cross the border to find better jobs.

By Matt Dillon

September 21, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this

More, Van? McCoy was followed by a lineup of conservative South Carolina politicians and LOS members, including a local preacher who during a rambling invocation called upon the audience to “pray for everyone involved [in the fight] against those coming from desperate cultures and languages [sic].”

It ain’t about legal and illegal Van. It’s about keeping anyone that isn’t white out. It is so disgusting that the republican party has to stoop this low.

By JK

September 21, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this

Both Harold (8:21) and Mr. Realist (9:31) have GREAT points this morning, IMO! This is not an issue that can be solved with a quip, a couple of sound bites, or a wall. (Who’s going to PAY for that wall, BTW, and where will the money come from?) Nor by dismissing it. It’s complex, and that means you can’t pound your fist on a table and solve it in three sentences.

It’s a legal issue (existing laws should be enforced), an economic issue (markets and wages ARE affected by both the coming and going of these people), a tax dollar issue (what will mass deportation COST?), a humanitarian issue (people just want to “put food on their families”), a foreign policy issue (Central American gov’ts seem all to eager to export their poverty rather than address it), and a cultural issue (yes we SHOULD learn to tolerate newcomers, but they should also respect existing cultures and neighborhood standards).

We have no hope of any real solution until we face and address the many factors, use logic and planning instead of emotion, and work toward long-term goals instead of gratifying quick fixes. IMO.

By Matt Dillon

September 21, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

At the close of Tancredo’s speech, several men in confederate-themed clothing stood up and bellowed the first notes of “Dixie,” the Confederate anthem. They were soon joined by voices from throughout the large hall, which was now entirely on its feet. Tancredo, a second-generation Italian-American from Denver, appeared confused by the sudden burst of strange song. He quickly worked his way toward the exit with his staff.

Tancredo’s encounter with the League of the South continued outside. On the steps of the museum, Tancredo held court with LOS officials and supporters in Confederate clothing. He held a batch of the materials being distributed at the barbeque, among them a copy of the The Citizen’s Informer, the newspaper of the Conservative Citizens Council, the racist organization that grew out of the segregationist White Citizens Councils of the 1950s. When questioned about the newspaper, Tancredo responded that he did not know its history.

Just a little more of the “pure” motivations of the anti-Mexican crowd.

By Dusty

September 21, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

ARTC,

Are you kidding?? This is not a racial issue. Are you trying to make it one?

Next month, my family will be joined by a legal Latino member. The only Spanish speaking member of our family and one we are already enjoying. Trying to make this a racial issue is a bunch of “hooey”.

It is the law, stupid, not your prejudice.

By Van

September 21, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

Matt Dillon,

Typical leftie trick, deflection.

Is the LOS or Sons of Confederate Veterans, part of the Minutemen? Different organizationa altogether. No, your ploy is illogical and not very bright. It shows your ignorance or lack of reading ability or your parents are really brother and sister.

Check out their web site

It does seem odd that the liberal bed wetters would support open borders and want to award law breakers with citizenship.

You trash make me sick to my stomach.

By Realist

September 21, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this

Its kind of funny, as much as the democratic strategist are searching for a platform or issue to run on, and one that will divide voters, none seem to be working. Economy gloom and doom has been all but crushed by republicans laying out real numbers showing the economy is at its strongest in 40 years. Recent polls regarding the war on terror and in Iraq show that 60% of likely voters say the war effort is making progres and should continue. Bush approval rating slowly edging higher. And now, even on immigration, here on this blog which is ALWAYS divided, we have commonality on this issue, which is that both illegals AND those who hire them should be punished harshly. No division there folks.

Sen Hatch gave a beautiful speach on the senate floor yesterday where he laid it on the line and put all the dems gloom and doom election time rhetoric to test, and proved all of it false. Regarding taxes, the top 2% of earners in this country pay 34% of all taxes. The top 10% of earners pay 2/3 of all taxes. The top 50% of earners pay 97% of all taxes. The bottom 50% pay 3% of all taxes, and most pay none at all. Of the bottom 50%, many pay none AND recieve federal aid.

The BS rhetoric that the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer because of conservative tax cuts is BOLONEY!!!!

As Hatch said, if voters put democrats in control of the house and senate it will absolutely result in the suspension of the tax cuts put in place by the republicans, and will lead to new tax and spend measures that will without question slow this steadily growing and strong economy.

I wonder what they will dream up next to divide us on?

By Th

September 21, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this

When Clinton sent INS into Chambliss’s district, ole Sazby called it “gestapo tactics” if memory serves.

By Matt Dillon

September 21, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

Obviously it is you who can’t read Van. Or did you just choose to ignore the part that clearly stated that Tancredo was speaking to a crowd of minuteman activists as well as the others. Selective memory huh Van?

Open another beer and light another cigarette, moron.

By Man of Science

September 21, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

On going debate at work…can Blacks (the ones that are descendants of African slaves)be considered an immigrant group like all the rest of us. Can there be 3 different groups in America? Native (American Indian), Immigrants (all the rest of us), and Blacks (descendants of slaves). One black colleague of mine brought up the term “cargo”. By definition immigrant means “A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another.”

Just curious…

By Van

September 21, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

Matt Dillon,

I guess the “local politicians” were also racist, bigoted and evil also?

I also guess guilt by association goes with the territory.

By CJ

September 21, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

Realist @10:56,

With regard to Senator Hatches statistics, how did he define “earners” when accumulating this figures? For example, are these individual income taxes only or are business taxes and other types included as well?

Is he talking about income taxes only or is he including payroll taxes?

What about non-wage ncome such as capital gains, inheritence, gifts, etc. — are they included in this calculation?

If the top 10 percent pay 67 percent of the total, what percentage of the total do they earn? Is it more or less than 67 percent?

What are the “effective” tax rates of taxpayers in these brackets?

What I’m trying to say is that Hatch’s figures are meaningless without more information.

By CJ

September 21, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this

Hatches = Hatch’s … sorry.

By Dusty

September 21, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Matt Dillon,

Still stirring the old racist pot, I see. What is your objective here? Are you trying to make us think that the USA is one big ogre of discrimination? Throw in a little of what sounds like Southern discrimination as well?

People all over the world fleeing persecution want to live in the USA. Many that get here end up living and working in the South. That makes your enthusiastic INCIDENT reporting sort of strange.

So tell us your real motive here? Could it be that you want to make the USA and this administration look bad by any means? Certainly sounds like it.

By JK

September 21, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

if voters put democrats in control…. will lead to new tax and spend measures that will without question slow this steadily growing and strong economy..

(Is this on topic???) Hmmm.. Please explain the economic principles by which BORROW AND SPEND (from foregin countries like China) is better in the long run than a policy of spending only the income collected (“tax & spend”). I’m also curious as to how exactly the reduction of the deficit, balancing of the federal budget, and accumulation of a [short-lived] surplus to begin paying down our debt was “bad” for our economy. Really really curious!

Also, wondering how I can use my little $200 tax break to add more policemen to my local force, build my own levee to protect my home, or develop new energy sources to reduce my dependence of foreign oil (and my portion of the borrowed foreign $$).

Also wondering what folks like Skilling do with thier tax breaks that actually create jobs?

By time for the truth

September 21, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

typical dishonest leftie racebaiters … illegal means illegal - and illegal mexican types are here in their millions and still coming illegally and still free loading and overwhelming the schools, hospitals, drug dealing networks and jails.

Barbara … even rednekkks can be right once in a very blue moon - kind of like a stopped clock is actually right twice a day!!

By Matt Dillon

September 21, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

By Van

September 21, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this I also guess guilt by association goes with the territory.

You know the old saying Van…birds of a feather flock together. Sad…but true.

By Liberal

September 21, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

Man of Science,

I always joke that I’m the descendant of “imports”. The word “immigrant” or “immigration” never comes up when talking about Black histroy, just “slavery” or “the Middle Passage”.

Raised in the North, many of my white friends were grandsons immigrants, while a lot of blacks were the grandsons of migrants from the South. While my white friends talked about their grandparents from Germany or Poland, I talked about my grandparents from Alabama and Mississippi. It all depends on the context…I guess.

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

Illegal workers make a few people rich, and the rest of us poorer. Cheap chicken is a high price to pay for the social costs of illegal workers - which include

1) higher costs of social services - do we let the illegal who’s involved in a near-fatal car wreck just bleed out - no, as civilized people we treat him/her. Do we make his spouse deliver at home - no, as civilized people we give her access to medical care, whether she can pay or not. Do we not allow his/her children to attend our schools - no, as civilized people we value education (I’m not talking about you rednecks), and believe that every child deserves a chance. All these things cost money, sometimes mucho dinero. These are costs that the illegal employer, through his/her ideology of me me me - passes on to the other people in his/her community.

2) Devaluing labor. For a culture that supposedly values hard work, many Americans love screwing other people out of a decent day’s pay. One of my brothers owns a home improvement biz in NJ - he pays the 6 people that work for him over $60,000/year each and pays their Workers Comp, and recently even in NJ the illegals are arriving in force, driving down wages. Let’s face it, most people, especially in the red states, think it is fine to cheat and steal from their employees - a legacy of the plantation system - they think somehow they are better than people that work for wages. Included in this devaluation of labor is more unsafe workplaces, since illegals can’t complain about such issues, or file Workers Comp claims without fear of blowing their cover. Devaluing labor also leads to further dumbing down of our education system (in Georgia, how low can we go - yikes!), since any damn fool can pluck a chicken or dig a ditch - we end up with an economy based on ‘dirty’ industries, industries that have a more negative impact on the environment - “nouveau riche” morons borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy 4000 square foot McMansions built by cheap labor using cheap materials - causing once and future blight (and increasing our national debt) as the homes fall apart.

3) A loss of community. Rednecks would call it a loss of culture, but let’s face it, redneck culture ain’t much to mourn. However, in the few decent places and communities left to live in this country, we are losing any sense of fair play, we are becoming a nation with a few very rich people, a vanishing middle-class, and lots of folks who will do anything for money - because they have to to live.

Sort of like Dixie before 1960.

By getalife

September 21, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this

Nice post rednecks.

You forgot the meth connection.

By Man of Science

September 21, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this

Liberal,

“imports” is funny, I have to tell my colleagues that one. I would guess transplants from the north or south states could be considered immigrants in a way.

By Barbara

September 21, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

Dang rednecks, if you didn’t find a way to slam southerners a few times I would totally respect your post. Except for all the derrogatory talk about the south and the red states, you are absolutely right.

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

The solution to illegal immigration is simple.

1) Enforce our existing employment laws.

2) When Juan or Pedro or Maria (or Billy Bob or Jodie Sue) fill out their I-9 forms (a one-page form required by the federal gummint that an employer must have on file for each employee), call an 800 number or get online and verify with the Feds that the SS number (which you must have to work in the United States) actually belongs to Juan. (It should be easy to set up an immediate verification system). If the Social Security number does not belong to Juan, all the employer has to do is not hire him.

3) Prosecute illegal employers - including confiscation of their businesses, fines, and jail time. Prosecute banks and bank officers that loan money to illegals - illegals should not be able to purchase property in the US based on false documents - a big problem in the Southwest.

4) Limit access of illegal residents to social services - treat their immediate problems, then take them back to the border.

Remember, if employing illegals is against the law, only outlaws employ illegals.

And, if you stop paying illegal workers, it is generally cheaper and easier to be poor and desperate in their home countries than it is here, if you limit their access to the social safety net.

By Redneck Convert

September 21, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this

This other Redneck should stop slamming our culture. We got Fox News Channel, bowling, mud rassling, 4-wheeling, fishing, and a lot of other cultural things. That’s all you need in life.

And nobody needs to be educated past the 5th grade. That’s when I dropped out, and it ain’t hurt me none. I’m still able to think just as good as TFTT, Markus, Realist, Van, and a whole bunch of people here. Heck, we may even end up at the same Republican rally some place.

By Brian Curtis

September 21, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

JK: Excellent questions you pose! So naturally, they’ll be met with lame personal attacks and subject-changing.

Anything to pretend Bush isn’t a disaster….

By Dusty

September 21, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

Rednecks a q,

I get so blasted tired of your hate for Southerners. Now I see it also includes people from other countries.

Honey, I hate to tell you but that is YOUR bigotry, not Southern. We got over that stuff a long time ago. If the remnant rescuers of past history want to dig out some dirty laundry, it can be done anywhere.

If you are legal, crawl out of your shack and head for the chicken plant. You are the biggest phony ever. You need a job.

Real Southerners don’t undermine this country. They fight for it. You are undermining the USA with your cute act. That automatically removes any status you claim as a Southerner or any other part of the country as far as I am concerned.

So, happy plucking at the chicken plant. And stop your cackling and crowing.

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

An economic analysis of Dicksea history shows that cheap labor drives down wages. During slave days, Yankee wages were twice as high as white trash southron wages, since southrons had to compete with slaves, many of whom were hardworking accomplished tradespeople that were hired out by their masters. Of course, southern whites were notoriously lazy, but perhaps some of that is due to the disincentive of working hard and never getting ahead, which is the story of the rural south. For the few that work, that is.

By anita

September 21, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

I see anarchy and people choosing which laws they like and dont care if they are broken and alas—there is NO punishment. I owe nothing to any illegal alien invading my home, except a nice hole between the eyes. Go home and fix your own DAMN country. The cry is always —pay $12 for lettuce - $10 tomatoes..its all bull. The market or supply & demand will set the price….and frankly paying $2-3 head of lettuce suits me fine—I can afford it after all the bennies I dont have to pay for, for the illegal freeloaders and their breeders.

By Chazman

September 21, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

Granted a 700 mile fence doesn’t solve the problem any more than a few national guardsmen on the border did, but both send a message.

Wow, that says alot. Wooten is admitting the fence will not solve the problem. So is he advocating we spend $4 - $8 billion on something that will not work, but only to “send a message”? That’s alot of money to spend to send a message. Doesn’t sound to fiscally conservative to me.

By Sarah

September 21, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

Will someone PLEASE remove the keyboard from the screaming queen Redneck so he-she-it will go back to the NYC, sit on the stinky smelly L train with more of your kind and go to his-her-its deadend job and leave the South alone. I have never seen a beetch in need of more attention than Redneck. Okay, the 6 foot 4 drag queen Rosey that works Ponce on the week-end maybe needs more attention…but other than Rosey.

By Markus

September 21, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this

“Let’s propose raising the minimum wage and low-skilled jobs to a level where Americans would sign up for them.” That’s the liberal fix to curb illegal immigration. Americans will scrub toilets and mow lawns for $20/hr, and they will take back all the jobs they once did before massive mostly Hispanic illegal immigration. That is about the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard of, and I’ve heard a lot from the left lately.

Who since the 1900s mowed lawns, built and painted homes, and worked in meat & poultry processing plants before this Hispanic influx? European and Asian immigrants and descendents of slaves, that’s who. Many if not most people here are always looking to better themselves and provide better for their offspring with each new generation (except socialist welfare recipients that liberals target for elections and government indoctrination, but that’s another topic). Others are content with just getting by and working paycheck to paycheck, as do their kids, and their kid’s kids, and on the cycle goes just like welfare recipients.

With each increasingly better-prepared new generation, higher and higher skilled jobs are taken, leaving those “other” jobs for the less-prepared and/or less-mentally equipped. That’s the painful truth. Face reality: there are not many reasonably intelligent people out there who will gut chickens for forty hours a week for forty years no matter how much you pay them. Low-skilled labor is either a starting point for someone trying to better themselves or for those who either can’t or won’t better themselves. The minimum wage jobs like retail were NEVER meant to be for a lifetime or to raise a family of four.

Americans are taking on higher-demanding and higher-paying jobs these days more than ever. Exponential suburban sprawl and bigger homes and nicer (and more) cars in the driveways don’t happen to those working in factories or on job sites. Union membership is down almost 50% from just 25 years ago. It seems as if overnight suddenly that endless pool of maids, janitors, framers, drywallers, plumbers, meat-processors, field workers, and other traditional low-skilled jobs has all but dried up. No, the majority of Americans don’t care for those types of jobs anymore. In fact, there is such demand for some of the more specific low-skilled jobs like plumbing, that wages are on the increase to get more workers into the field. Anybody tried to schedule an appointment with a plumber lately? You’ll be lucky if you get a returned call. Being a good plumber has more value as a specialty than a generic chicken gutter.

Yeah that’s right: the MARKET sets wages in America. You are paid how much your job is worth to the organization based upon your job’s contribution and the ease of your replacement. The more specialized you are, the higher your pay. A Hispanic chicken gutter is a lot easier to replace than an MBA accountant at Tyson. If one chicken gutter isn’t happy in Gainesville and ready to move on, there are about ten more just behind him in line.

Fewer and fewer Americans are choosing to take positions in the low-skill jobs at the service sector level. Pay has nothing to do with it. It’s the skillset, stupid. The Mexicans are filling the void that can’t or won’t be filled by Americans, just like the Irish did 140 years ago on railroads and coal mines.

There are so many shortages of labor out there it’s unbelievable. It has been over a year now since Katrina, and the Gulf Coast is FAR from recovery. There are shortages of day labor that’s paying between $10-$20/hr. down there. Mexicans have been flocking down there to take the jobs. Now to me, THAT is a living wage range. Debris that was temporarily removed and stored somewhere else is still in piles on land and in warehouses because there aren’t enough drivers and laborers to move it for disposal. WHERE are all the traditional American workers people? No, according to liberals, we just need to pay more to give Americans “their” jobs back. Uh-huh. Sure.

By Thomas

September 21, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

OK —

QT yesterday — about 50+ mexicans, 3 white men, and 6 black men were in the store — whats wrong with this picture? Parking lot filled to overflow with huge utility trucks, and work trucks. Again? Why?

First - Yes many of the illgals are hard workers (or should I say desperate workers) especially since Mexico is no picnik’. But the flood of population hasn’t been stopped and next year it will be 100 mexicans, 2 whites, and 3 blacks in the QT’.

This chicken plant violated the law and knowingly (how could you not know) hired a staff of cheap illegal labor so they could make even more profit themselves. I say put the owners of this buisness - “out of buisness”. If there is a market - another company will come along to fill it!…Hopefully though the next company will be more honest.

The argument that illegals take jobs that americans won’t work simply doesn’t hold true. There are many americans who have lost their jobs to this cheaper by the dozen workforce. There are many college students who cannot get a job at McDonalds just because illegals fill the slots cheaper.

There are serious tolls upon our society and economy that you may not even see, beyond the healthcare issues. How many speak english, do we make signs in every language to accomodate them? Why? - Do we completely change our national markets for them? How many do you see with fancy SUV’s because they don’t pay taxes or have house payments, or other things that everyday taxpayers must pay (and then those taxes go aid them yet again). Is this right? NO!

Yes many illegals are hard workers, but they are not “good” nor’ “honest” in my book. If they have come to this country on a lie and are willing to harm this country’s citizens and cheat the system to make a better life for themselves then thats dis-honesty at it’s finest. Thats abuse of America and it’s laws and it’s people.

If national law enforcement cannot handle this problem, then the state law enforcement should step in and help take care of this “obvious” problem. Put companys that hire illegals out of buisness and never allow the culprit owners have a buisness liscence ever again.

Thomas

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this

Dusty, I guess you are a great American because you raised cannon fodder for Dumbya? What a silly, stupid cow you are.

Mooo.

By Markus

September 21, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

Speaking of immigrants, that South American pig Chevez was in Harlem this morning with fellow America-hating pigs like Danny Glover. Where’s Cindy Sheeplehead? Round them all up and ship them the hell down there back to the paradise of Venezuela under Chevez.

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

I am under ugly slut attack today, but somehow, I believe I’ll be OK.

Pity the poor folks that can’t handle the truth about their history, they are condemned to be white trash forever.

By Dusty

September 21, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

redneck a q,

You are so full of BULL. I am an American who is proud to be one. I don’t have any regard for the stupid stuff you throw out day after day. That ‘s because I love this country and I love the South. You are most unlovable which probably accounts for your present state. Just don’t dump it on us.

By Stewart

September 21, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

Harold..For the most part, the Walmart workers are American citizens. The employees and Walmart pay Fica taxes. So your argument doesn’t make any sense.

By Janet_G

September 21, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this

The one thing that you left out of the original article was the comment from the american woman who, when she heard the poultry plant was paying $1 an hour more, quit her job at Walmart in another town and took a job at the poultry plant near her home. It is a left-wing, media mantra that illegals do jobs that Americans won’t. The reality is that companies hire illegals because they will work for wages far below what the market would demand if they had to hire Americans.

Americans WILL do these jobs and they DID do these jobs until the influx of illegals created the opportunity for businesses to lower their wages and benefits for these types of jobs. Cut illegal immigration and put low income Americans in rural areas back to work at a living wage.

The stores that sprang up to cater to the illegal population will survive, they just have to change their products to suit their new clientell, the legal immigrants and Americans who will now be working at the poultry plant and who will have even more income to spend, since they will not be sending half of it home to Mexico each week. The Western Union and the check cashing place may lose business, but they built businesses on the gamble that illegal immigrants would be their customers. They can now count the profits made on the backs of illegals and move on to another, legitimate business.

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

Markanus, you stupid Dumbya the devil-worshipper - Chavez is not an immigrant, he’s just visiting.

Let’s face it - you’re just a white trash racist jizbag.

By CBF

September 21, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

Mid-south: “Both, unchecked “corporatism” or unchecked “labor unionism” are destructive to the economy. Only when the two forces are locked in combat with each other are we, somewhat, safe!” - reminds me of what I say about the repugnicans and the commiecrats! Give one side too much power and we’re all screwed. Let ‘em fight with each other instead.

By Curious Observer

September 21, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

Let’s face it - you’re just a white trash racist jizbag.

A great zinger, rednecks.

By Van

September 21, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

Matt Dillon,

I can assume that you hate america also, bird of a feather…

By Bo

September 21, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

Reddneck…you say racist like it’s a bad thing?

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

Back in the ATL today, after my drive across Dicksea - from Mesa Arizona, through Socorro and Roswell NM, through West Texass, the DFW sheethole, Tyler Texass, Losereeana, Misspissippi, and Aladamnbama.

Well, the South done shot it’s wad - if I had a nickel for every boarded up business I passed, I could take a few months off. After having travelled in Europe, one of the big differences is that the restrooms in Europe are a whole lot cleaner - gawddamn, you people are filthy pigs.

One of the interesting construction developments is all the houses with brick fences and barbwire in Arizona and New Mexico - I’m reminded of my travels in Central Mexico.

Yes, the Mexicans are the red states’ new slave class. So every hombre for himself, chicos and chicas… Your degenerate redneck “culture” is reinvigorated with the blood of hardworking (and alas, hard drinking and wife beating) uneducated Mexicans.

Enjoy your place at the top of the heap. Too bad it’s a molehill.

By Dana

September 21, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this

hmm. Markus - I agree with most of your 12:12 posts. Your 12:24 is a load of crap, but that seems to be much of what is being shoveled in here (again) today. Can’t we discuss the issues without being obsessively IGNORANT with abuse of others? How do any of you think that bashing or debasing someone who opposes you is going to bring them around to your way of thinking? What freaking grade are all of you in? (remind me I said this when I get irritated and ugly later…)

By Donna P.

September 21, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this

Yes, illegals work hard when they come to America. They also commit a federal crime when they use fake Social Security cards, fake Green Cards, and fake Birth Certificates to get those jobs. Everyone who wants to work in the United States must fill out an I-9 Employment Eligibility Verification Form. Before signing the form, the potential employee agrees to the following statement: “I am aware that Federal law provides for imprisonment and/or fines for false statements or use of fake documents in connection with the completion of this form.” If Congress and the President give Amnesty to all the illegals who commit this crime, then why have this law to begin with?

By Eric

September 21, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

Rednekks:

I remember you making claims of being British. Riding the Tube out towards High Wycombe or some other nonsense.

You seem to think that Southerners should be ashamed of their heritage.

If I were to concede that point to you, then you must be utterly humiliated by your British heritage. The Crown treated the “untouchables” in India with wonderful humanity, did it not? How about colonial Africa and the West Indies?? Proud of wiping out enitre cultures because your brought your filthy viruses to their lands?

Your “heritage” has absolutely nothing to do with the person you become. Nothing. Fortunately for us, we all do not become bitter, angry, washed up, dried out old queens like yourself.

Go “sod off.”

By harold

September 21, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

Stewart who do you think pays WalMart? The illegals do! Nobody else will shop there.

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

Folks, I’m not trying to zing anyone, I’m just being honest.

Thank Gawd Tranny Annie Wooten has given us a place where we don’t have to sacrifice the truth on the altar of political correctness.

I know, some of my posts seem hurtful and hateful, but one does not have to sugarcoat here on the Woo-ten KKKlan blog.

You have to admit, some of my posts are pretty funny too. Sometimes I read them and I laugh so hard I almost tftt myself.

So it’s all good.

By Barbara

September 21, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

rednecks, Markus didn’t say “deport” Chavez; he said ship him back. That’s the same point I was making earlier. As a country, we should draw the line somewhere at what foreigners are allowed to say about our nation and our President while on our soil. Chavez went too far, and we should have had a couple of Feds show up and put his spiteful a* back on a plane to Venezula for his dispicable comments about our President. We are seen as a laughing stock because we allow things like this to continue. No other country would have put up with that. NONE! Especially not Venezula.

By Eric

September 21, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

Rednekks - I forgot to ask you:

Are you a PITCHER or a CATCHER?

By jbmlaw

September 21, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this

Dear Curious @ 9:21, I think you err in affirming that plant owners are “pocketing” profits entirely attributable to Mexicans (why the opprobrium? Profits are always good; it is losses that lead to unemployment for all.) When the business costs increase due to hiring from a reduced labor pool, the businesses will be compelled to pass on higher costs to their customers, or will have to squeeze their suppliers, or cut dividends, or perhaps outsource overseas. All of those seem worse to me than hiring productive, willing workers. Rather than condemning freedom (and me for advocating freedom) you should ask, “Why is the government trying to drive prices higher?” Is that not the mark of lunatics running the asylum, here government creating a problem and then being the only source of resolution? (And just for the record, I am ideological, not political; you mean to condemn those of us with a Libertarian-bent, not Republicans generally, as most Republicans oppose my view on this issue.)

Dear Realist @ 9:31, although I am generally on your side, I disagree this time. Wiretapping is a generally worse evil than immigration, and the former is a more appropriate subject for regulation. Having made that argument, I don’t have a problem with government wiretapping anything and everything, I just object to having the fruit of the wiretapping admissible in a court of law. I also think you are unduly pessimistic about Mexicans voting en masse for Democrats; most Mexicans are hostile to abortion and hold strong affection for religion, so Republicans should be able to sell their ideas to freedom lovers who grew up speaking another language. My core problem (with the immigration laws) is exactly what 90% of the anti-immigration posters affirm – the immigration laws are leading to wide-spread (and justifiable) contempt for “the law,” which can only have a bad long-term effect.

Ice Cream Man @ 10:08 and Bob @ 10:21, you and I are the only ones who see it.

Dusty @ 10:12, perhaps you argue that all acts by the legislature (including that aggregation of clowns we call the “Congress”) deserve respect. I disagree. All acts of a legislative body serve as constraints on freedom and otherwise disrupt market efficiency. That is as true of immigration as any other field. Some acts (e.g., murder, rape, kidnapping) are inherently evil and are properly controlled by the government; others (e.g., speeding, personal drug use, immigration) are not inherently evil, and only each individual adverse effect should be subject to a legal resolution. I think the problem with immigration laws is that we cast the net too wide. Or maybe not wide enough; if one’s true concern is terrorists getting into the country through loose borders, would it not be more likely that we would see entry from appeasing-Canada than from police-state Mexico?

Dana @ 10:26 and Getalife @ 10:37, we switch sides for today. How about allowing all the Mexicans in, but nobody else?

TFTT @ 10:01, Barbara @ 10:40 and Liberal @ 10:48, well-written; I don’t have to agree to appreciate your thoughts.

Markus @ 12:12, best essay of the day, hats off.

By Man of Science

September 21, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

Eric,

are asking Redneck that dumbshit because you are offering to “pitch or catch”..another dumbass

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

Eric, old gal, I am an American citizen, born here, the great-grandson of 7 immigrants and one natural born American citizen, whose parents came over from central Germany. My father’s father’s people did hail from England, but I have Germans, Poles, Prussians, Irishmen, and German and Hungarian Jews in my family tree, too.

We all have our cultural crosses to bear (even the Jews ;) ), if we were born into families and cultures. There are things we should embrace about our culutral and family heritage, and things we should take a closer look at.

Let’s face it, redneck culture ain’t much of a model for trying to live an intelligent respectable life in civilized 21st century society, and it is a lot to overcome. Most of you rednecks are too stupid to even see how toxic your culture is. Unfortunately, redneck culture values ignorance and stupidity, so there is your dilemma…

By CJ

September 21, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

Some thoughts on Jim’s topic – coming from the Left:

Industry by Industry – Crack Down on Illegal Employers by Making Hiring an Undocumented Worker More Expensive Than Hiring a Legal One The INS (Homeland Security) should create a streamlined process allowing them to efficiently and consistently check the status of employees working for major employers. If undocumented workers are found, then employers are fined so that hiring an undocumented worker is more expensive than hiring a legal worker (no arrests are necessary). With consistent enforcement, employers will make the correct business decision and begin only hiring legal workers. As a result, illegal immigration will begin to dry up on its own – no walls, no guns, no arrests.

(Note: This practice would have to be implemented on an industry-wide basis. It wouldn’t be fair to punish Georgia poultry producers while completing Alabama poultry producers continue to get away with hiring undocumented workers.)

Raise the Number of Low-Skilled Workers Allowed in to the US from Mexico and other South American Countries To the extent that low-skilled employees are actually needed (as opposed to preferred because they’ll accept lower wages and poor working conditions), then the US should increase the number of work visas provided, so that we can actually perform background checks on the persons coming into the country.

Help Employers to Create Jobs by Fixing the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and Other Trade Agreements Because of our free-trade agreements high-paying jobs are steadily declining in the US. Our trade agreements made it possible for employers who pay don’t want to comply with US wage, safety and environment laws to set up shop where they can find cheap labor, maintain unsafe working conditions and pollute, but still sell their products in the US. Of course, conscientious employers who wish to comply with such standards have difficulty competing and many are forced to relocate their operations to third-world countries or go out of business.

Rather than allowing such conditions to reduce labor and environmental standards in our country, we should be using these trade agreements to raise such standards in other countries. As one of the biggest, if not the biggest, market in the world for manufactured goods, we have the buying power to encourage other countries, through trade agreements, to gradually increase their standards for the benefit of American employers and American workers. Of course, our trade partners benefit as well.

By TP

September 21, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this

All I can say is anyone who supports the assinine war in Iraq that’s costing the US taxpayers billions has no right to complain about how much illegal immigrants are costing taxpayers!

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

It looks like I have another not-so-closeted gay conservative after me - tftt, Markanus, realisp, now Eric.

I’m such a heartbreaker.

By Man of Science

September 21, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

Eric,

are asking Redneck that dumbshit because you are offering to “pitch or catch”..another dumbass

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

Eric, not being raised in the south, I was never involved in sexual activity with other males, and I have no interest in it.

Sorry, toots.

By Realist

September 21, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

Wiretapping is a generally worse evil than immigration, and the former is a more appropriate subject for regulation.

JBM, I have to disagree on the comparison, but I do agree that wiretapping, left uncontrolled to one single branch of government would lead to excess. I like the bill that (cant think of her name) senator has written which allows for checks and balances and accountability in all three branches regarding the wiretaps. Have you had a chance to look at it? WOndering what your take was. I think the wiretaps are nessecary and hope this bill allows it to continue legally. I agree that the current administration has pushed the envelope on the legality of some programs, but then, no other administration has faced what this one has either. There are some really good bills on the floor right now, but I fear partisan voting is going to crush most of them….

By getalife

September 21, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

Its the Wu Tang clan.

Anybody know what is Rove’s October surprise?

By Dusty

September 21, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

jbmlaw,

Seems to me you are casting a very wide net. “All acts of a legislative body serve as constraints on freedom and otherwise disrupt market efficiency” you posted. All of them? I hardly think so. And they can be changed if enough people want it.

I believe that the laws on immigration should be enforced. Illegal immigrants should not be here claiming the benefits of citizenship. I believe that includes those who would come illegally from Canada or Mexico or anywhere else.

Aside from a little speeding, I try to abide by the law. Is it too much to expect that from others? For a lawyer(?), you don’t seem to have much respect for the law.

I am gone for the day.

By Curious Observer

September 21, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

How typical of the redneck mentality that anyone who disagrees with a redneck must therefore be a homosexual. It is this kind of thinking, Dusty et al., that leads many of us to scorn the rednecks who contributed mightily to installing an administration that makes Hoover’s and Coolidge’s look downright brilliant and beneficent.

By Dana

September 21, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

JBM - I haven’t totally switched sides here - as usual for me I see issues on both sides. I really have NO issue with immigrants (well, I would really love it if they learned how to drive….) And I know our process makes it interminably hard. (I have spent the majority of the day trying to help an employee who is dealing with the INS’s loss of his paperwork AGAIN) I simply believe that the laws are broken and need to be fixed. I think the chicken littles who blame imigrants for all their woes are ridiculous, but I don’t think that anyone from any country should be able to just walk in and live an “invisible” life - immigrants should pay taxes, should be absorbed into the community - as both productive and and active participants.

I don’t actually know when the laws became so hard - My father’s family came here in the mid to late 1800’s from Ireland, and they became naturalized citizens. My mothers family (Brits) actually only arived here recently - I am second generation on her side. They had no problems either - but now, that is FAR from the truth. But I have serious issues with the medical costs, the community costs of Fire and Police officers, schools, etc. I could post another monolithic monologue, but I need to go find my immigrant employee and finish this as best as possible today before I end up being the next jumper on the connector…

By Dana

September 21, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

JBM - I haven’t totally switched sides here - as usual for me I see issues on both sides. I really have NO issue with immigrants (well, I would really love it if they learned how to drive….) And I know our process makes it interminably hard. (I have spent the majority of the day trying to help an employee who is dealing with the INS’s loss of his paperwork AGAIN) I simply believe that the laws are broken and need to be fixed. I think the chicken littles who blame imigrants for all their woes are ridiculous, but I don’t think that anyone from any country should be able to just walk in and live an “invisible” life - immigrants should pay taxes, should be absorbed into the community - as both productive and and active participants.

I don’t actually know when the laws became so hard - My father’s family came here in the mid to late 1800’s from Ireland, and they became naturalized citizens. My mothers family (Brits) actually only arived here recently - I am second generation on her side. They had no problems either - but now, that is FAR from the truth. But I have serious issues with the medical costs, the community costs of Fire and Police officers, schools, etc. I could post another monolithic monologue, but I need to go find my immigrant employee and finish this as best as possible today before I end up being the next jumper on the connector…

By time for the truth

September 21, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

I see rednekkks NAMBLA is back to its old poisonous hateful bigotry now the anaesthetic from its ninth court ordered lobotomy has worn off!!

Rednekkks should be forced to travel much more … indeed the USAF should ensure that Mister NAMBLA gets to visit - AT EXACTLY THE SAME TIME - Iran, Cuba, Libya, Venezuela and Syria - in small enough pieces so as not to violate local rabies laws!! (gedditt??)

By Jack

September 21, 2006 02:04 PM | Link to this

Notice how Chavez kept saying that he liked the American People, but despised our government.

Isn’t that what we said about Iraq? Turns out, it WAS the people in Iraq!! They’re shooting at us. What did we ever do?

How many Iraqs are emerging?

By jbmlaw

September 21, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

Dear Realist @ 1:48, I fear I know nothing except whatever marching orders Rush delivers. (That’s a joke for you leftists.) The wiretapping stuff just is not an issue for me, despite my libertarian leanings; I just don’t care.

I think we are at war with evil people, and I think the wiretaps (and waterboarding and all of the other hot issues) may prevent some good people from dying; I thus would not punish those working to protect Americans from a grisly death. As to your assessment, I hope you are unduly pessimistic. I rely on McCain’s tendency to be self-serving as the element that will bring him back to the right after the house does a better job with the proposed legislation.

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

You know, people are always getting on me about not being nice.

But please note how nice I was to Eric in gently, but firmly rebuffing his advances. I was very compassionate toward him.

By Dusty

September 21, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this

Curious Observer,

Keep my name out of your twisted observations. I have never injected sexuality of any kind into my posts. Try to get your mind and your facts accurate and out of the gutter. It makes you just a bit more credible.

PS..rednecks al q, was not born in the South, is toxic, and creates his own faulty image as there is no “redneck culture”. He is just a sick comic.

Goodbye.

By rerun solution

September 21, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

I gave ya’ll the solution months ago, but here ya go again: Dig a moat along the entire border of Mexico. Take the dirt from the moat to build New Orleans above flood level. Take all the killer alligators from Florida and fill the moat with them. Solve 3 problems with 1 solution! Now what’s so hard about that?

By CJ

September 21, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

jbmlaw @1:22 - “Some acts (e.g., murder, rape, kidnapping) are inherently evil and are properly controlled by the government…”

I think you wrote something here that I can hang my hat on. I agree with this statement 100 percent. So, I think the differences between our positions on governing may have to do with our different values. In other words - our differences in activities that fall under the definition of “evil” may be different.

For example, I think its evil to pay a full-time worker a wage that he or she can’t live on (Department of Labor). I think its evil to maintain unsafe working conditions (OSHA). I think its evil to pollute the air and water (EPA). I think its evil to mislead a buying prospect about the cost, efficacy or safety of one’s product or service (FTC). I think its evil to continue selling a knowingly unsafe product, such as a baby crib or an automobile. (Consumer Product Safety Division/National Highway Transportation Safety Division). I think its evil to lie about the value of one’s company to present and potential stockholders (SEC). I think its evil to manufacture prescription drugs that are unsafe (FDA).

As you said, such activities and other acts that are inherently evil are properly controlled by government.

By Realist

September 21, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this

rerun, Though I know you halfway jest, those kind of common sense solutions are probably what we need. In Iraq, they are finally moving forward with a plan to surroudn Baghdad and other critical areas with large trenches with controlled bridge access. Once they reach a baseline as far as inspecting and clearing all vehicles within the area, they can strictly control what vehicels come in and out. Should stop the daily car bombings. We have the equipment and manpower to have accomplished this a year ago, why we are only know moving on it I dont understand. Oh wait…its the government we are talking about here. That must be it.

By Shooter

September 21, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this

Most of us have no problem with immigration as long as its legal.I’m all for securing all our borders so that we know who’s coming into our nation. I really don’t care if the chicken plant has to pay a dollar an hour more to hire someone here legally, it’s still cheaper than the illegal immigrants.The indians are the only natives here, the rest of us are immigrants legal I hope. I think we are all in favor of legal immigration,I also think we should do everything we can to stop illegal immigration.

By Shooter

September 21, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

Most of us have no problem with immigration as long as its legal.I’m all for securing all our borders so that we know who’s coming into our nation. I really don’t care if the chicken plant has to pay a dollar an hour more to hire someone here legally, it’s still cheaper than the illegal immigrants.The indians are the only natives here, the rest of us are immigrants legal I hope. I think we are all in favor of legal immigration,I also think we should do everything we can to stop illegal immigration.

By Man of Science

September 21, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this

Dusty,

You are very wrong…I was born and raised in the south and there is a redneck culture..maybe not as severe as Redneck A Q describes..but it definitely is a culture as is Hip Hop, Yankee, or Hispanic

By Man of Science

September 21, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

Realist…

but wouldn’t we need to build a moat around every city in Iraq and not just Baghdad?

By Realist

September 21, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

Just to point out something that seems to be being missed in everyones “debate” is that the border security bill and fence proposal is not only to stop Illegal Mexicans from coming into America. There are also some pretty intelligent terrorist who would exploit our open borders in very short order should we leave them as is. Border security is important coast to coast, north to south, not just Mexico.

By rerun solution

September 21, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

Realist, actually I was being very serious. What good would a fence do? Most mexicans can’t swim anyway, so surround them with alligators and we’re sure to nip the problem in the butt. Like you said, a few controlled bridges would work just fine. In the end we’d save money on all the border patrols as well as the 1 million dollar fence they are proposing.

By Thomas

September 21, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

I’ve got IT!~~~

A modification of CJ’s post at 01:31

We set a series of Taxes that company’s must pay for employment of un-documented workers. These taxes will include a doubled amount of Social Security Taxes that employers must with-hold from the Undocumented Worker’s checks, and a increase in other state and federal tax with-holdings.

This would compensate for cost upon our society and health care systems, and would put the corporations neck in the noose should they lie about the legal status of their employees as they would be fined for Tax Evasion.

This would also force employers to pay a fairer amount for labor seeing as the takehome pay may be lower in the Illegals case, but the total bill of employment would be about the same. This should help make employers consider a USA citizen for the job first as well before relying on a non-citizen hire.

I bet a lot of companys would quickly clean up their act as to the information of those whom they employ, seeing as a Tax violation would most certainly be enforced by the government versus the fines from INS!

This could actually work should a state wish to pass such legislation. Maybe some senator should run on just such an issue (Cough Cough!)..

Thomas

By rerun solution

September 21, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

That’s the problem, republicans nor democrats seem to have any commom sense anymore!

By Realist

September 21, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

Man of science, I dont know who “we” is, but “they” have already begun this project from what I heard one of the generals say yesterday. As he put it, they are focusing on Baghdad and “other” areas where homicide car bombers are taking a toll.

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

CJ, the so-called conservative trash that posts on the Woo-ten KKKlan blog are really mostly just neo-KKKonfederates. They think they would have liked the good ol’ days of slavery and Jim Crow - that’s the kind of labor market they’d like to see.

By Realist

September 21, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

Yeah yeah yeah rednecks. Thats right. We are all KKK biggots. So since thats what I am I will say this. If I were calling the shots out on the lower 40, you and your vile mouth would be the FIRST to swing.

By Dana

September 21, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this

Today is indeed a red letter day - Realist is completely correct - our wide open border with Mexico (and Canada) leaves us vulnerable as hell to terrorists. I’m just not at all sure that a wall is going to stop them, especially given how long it will take to complete. It is, however, the best suggestion I’ve seen yet.

By Curious Observer

September 21, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

I don’t understand this mania about building a border fence. As someone has said, “Show me a 50-foot fence and I’ll show you someone with a 51-foot ladder.” A fence will do nothing without at least a quintupling of the current border patrol.

The real problem is that would-be illegal immigrants see employment opportunities in the United States. The draw for them is employment. Get rid of the employment opportunities and you’ll be rid of the illegal workers.

Why doesn’t Congress work on a national data-driven system that will allow a quick verification of eligibility for employment, instead of a worthless system of easily forged documents?

It is beyond stupid to me that, according to news reports, the Social Security Administration receives hundreds and thousands of contributions under the Social Security number 000-00-0000, yet will do nothing about it because of fears of “violating worker privacy.” Can you spell M-O-R-O-N?

Another step is starting to put real heat on employers who hire illegals. It may be politically inconvenient for Congressmen who receive campaign contributions from these employers to demand reform, but either we’re serious about the illegal worker problem or we’re not. A publicized raid every two months is not going to cut it.

Finally, let’s dismiss the notion that we need to bring in more legal immigrants to fill jobs. The illegals are in their jobs because they will work them for lower wages and fewer protections. They take jobs out of the hands of legal workers who would accept those jobs for a little more money. Some people need to start giving a thought to the future. What are your children going to do for a living once most jobs are either shipped overseas or filled by illegal workers, with the inevitable suppression of wages and the standard of living?

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

Realisp, you silly yellow-bellied coward. Better bring a whole bunch of your Kappa Kappa Kappa Alpha Order girlfriends with you.

Lynchmobbing trash.

By time for the truth

September 21, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

in the days of slavery rednekkks NAMBLA would have been worth much less than one red cent … indeed slave owners would have been queuing up to get rid of such a worthless specimen. rednekkks would simply have been an unsellable slave.

not even those poor souls forcibly held in such vile bestial bondage would have associated with rednekkks NAMBLA - rednekkks would have assuredly ended up living as an outcast amongst the donkeys and jackasses on any plantation - and even amongst its closest possible four legged peers it would have always been naturally socially shunned and despised!! just as it is today!!

By Realist

September 21, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

Dont be so pessimistic Dana. I know the dems are all coming out poo pooing the fence idea and saying it wont be very effective blah blah blah. Walls and fences have been used very effectively throughout history in all parts of the world to keep the unwanted out. It will help here too, and the cost to build and maintain it is neglible in the grand scheme of things.

The most immediate impact will be on the drug and steroid transport across the US-Mexico border which is HUGE. But Im sure given the money involved, they are already finding other means of delivery.

By frank123

September 21, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

As a minority, I am very very happy the INS is conducting raids in Stillmore. The local plant had to raise wages to get workers. That is great stuff. The best way to get a living wage is to crack down on business and build a wall on the boarder. This will raise wages for our citizens and our kids. I hope INS keeps it up after the election is over. There’s Stillmore to do and Stillmore raids to make.

By frank123

September 21, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

As a minority, I am very very happy the INS is conducting raids in Stillmore. The local plant had to raise wages to get workers. That is great stuff. The best way to get a living wage is to crack down on business and build a wall on the boarder. This will raise wages for our citizens and our kids. I hope INS keeps it up after the election is over. There’s Stillmore to do and Stillmore raids to make.

By Man of Science

September 21, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

Realist,

Are you seriously joking about hangings? I thought you were slightly better than that. That subject is like the Jewish holocaust…you just don’t joke about it. Being from Alabama, have you been to the Civil Rights museum? Makes you think twice.

By @@

September 21, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

Jim:

Santo frijoles!!! America is so kind & generous?

Clean up on Aisle (D) please.

Just kidding…plenty of blame to go around. Even among the citizenry in these here “estados unidos”. Asleep during the revolución.

It’s those damn “unintended consequences” again. Proceed with caution. Look at the whole enchilada. It’s time to refry some beans, take another siesta, trade your loaf bread for tortillas, buy the “farm”workers…viva Ceasar.

I got nada, but Mitt Romney (R) does. Rápido, rápido!!!!

By time for the truth

September 21, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

Science

rednekks vermin really is such a vile character that frankly anything you say about it on here, even in jest, is a perfectly fair response.

I fully take your point though, in polite society / normal circumstances - one wouldn’t resort to such banter.

By Realist

September 21, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this

No MoS, I wasnt seriously joking, I was seriously serious. Whoever that demented sick twisted person is behind those many ID’s deserves some good old fashioned power drill to the knee and shoulder type therapy. Ive got a real nice cordless and am willing to travel!

By The Terminator

September 21, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

Hello all you LIBERAL LOSERS. All of you get on here and talk your crap BUT GUESS WHAT? You’re LOSERS and you’re gonna lose again in November. Bush’s approval numbers are on the rise again, the Democrats are sweating, and they’re gonna get their d******* kicked again. Y’all might want to move down to Venezuela. Your kind of boy is in power down there and you won’t have all these “mean-spirited” Republicans to shove you around anymore. It’ll be a socialists “heaven”.

Adios amigos.

By The Terminator

September 21, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

Hello all you LIBERAL LOSERS. All of you get on here and talk your crap BUT GUESS WHAT? You’re LOSERS and you’re gonna lose again in November. Bush’s approval numbers are on the rise again, the Democrats are sweating, and they’re gonna get their d******* kicked again. Y’all might want to move down to Venezuela. Your kind of boy is in power down there and you won’t have all these “mean-spirited” Republicans to shove you around anymore. It’ll be a socialists “heaven”.

Adios amigos.

By Regina

September 21, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

This is one of the main reasons we need to secure the border…

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6113878

By Regina

September 21, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

This is one of the main reasons we need to secure the border…

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6113878

By The Terminator

September 21, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

BUILD THE FENCE, indict the employers that are hiring the illegals, and while you’re at it, BOYCOTT CITGO. Pi$$ on Chavez AND Danny Glover and all his other socialist buddies.

By Regina

September 21, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

This is one of the main reasons we need to secure the border…

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6113878

By Regina

September 21, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this

http://mexico.usembassy.gov/mexico/ew060914violence.html

By Michelle

September 21, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

This is one issue that has nothing to do with Liberal/Conservative. I’m as liberal as they come and I believe we need to do as much as we can to secure the borders and stop illegal immigration. This business of offering amnesty to illegals after they’ve been here so long, what’s up with that? What’s next, offering criminals who skip bail a reduced sentence after they’ve been gone for so many years?

By Michelle

September 21, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this

This is one issue that has nothing to do with Liberal/Conservative. I’m as liberal as they come and I believe we need to do as much as we can to secure the borders and stop illegal immigration. This business of offering amnesty to illegals after they’ve been here so long, what’s up with that? What’s next, offering criminals who skip bail a reduced sentence after they’ve been gone for so many years?

By The Terminator

September 21, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this

Liberal LOSERS, I’d like to hang around and hear your sissy responses but I’ll be fishing the rest of the day like a REAL man. The only thing more fun is pi$$ing off liberals. Conservatives, remember: BOYCOTT CHEVRON!!! BOYCOTT CHEVRON!!! Dry up his oil revenues and the Venezuelans will hang the little dicktator themselves. Demand your reps and sens BUILD THE FENCE and stop the illegal invasion. This is OUR- by-God-Country!!!

By Van

September 21, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this

Dana,

The fence will not stop them, but if it make it difficult for half of them to get in, then it will be worth it.

As we found out with East Germany, fences do not stop people, just slows them down.

By Man of Science

September 21, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

Realist,

whatever gets you through the night and makes you satisfied as a father and huband I guess. If I heard one of my friends say something like that, I’d knock the living s** out his a*. Guess we had different southern upbringing though. I may be a lil over-sensitive to the matter being that my father was friends with a “colored” man that was taken from his home, beaten, shot, and left to swing as you put it. A story I will never forget.

By John

September 21, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

Leave the immigrants alone. The vast, vast majority are hard-working, law abiding citizens seeking to better themselves, their families and their communities. The immigrants as a percentage of population have a far lower crime rate than the population as a whole. They are absolutely vital and essential to the economies of most communities in Georgia. I really think politicians are looking for a solution where no problem exists and that most of the people who are expressing “concern” for the situation have no basis for their actions other than racism.

By time for the truth

September 21, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

I just want to say a big Conservative thank you to gotnobrain for not soiling this debate today with his usual litany of Bush hate and leftist lies.

By Realist

September 21, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

The fence is part of a comprehensive plan that must be put in place. Sadly, the fence is the only thing dems-republicans can agree on. We have to take what we can get.

The increased border security and patrols have already put a big dent into the problem, though the left is fighting tooth and nail to strip border patrol of the power to stop the illegals. We must protect thier rights, screw our laws!!

Want to hear what republicans are up against? The house voted yesterday on a provision, which the democrats wrote and supported, that would require border patrol agents to get DHS approval before disabling (pit maneuver, ramming, shooting tires when safe) fleeing vehicles they witnessed crossing illegaly. This due to some fatalites occuring when overloaded vehilcs attempted to flee and crashed killing some illegals. Can you imagine? You see the truckload of mexicans at 60MPH crossing the border, and you have to stop and wait for the federal government DHS to tell you its ok to stop them? They would be somehwere laying carpet and having babies by the time that approval came. These are the fools you liberals have elected. Men and women who come up with provisions that slow or hurt American, not help!

By Realist

September 21, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this

MoS, Im not that sensitive to it because it has never gone on in my lifetime or even my parents lifetime. At least I dont think hanging were going on in the fifties. I chose to live in the present. I meant no offense to anyone but that vile POS multi-poster. BTW Mos, slapping someone and resorting to violence is a sign of an inferior mind, just so you know.

John, Your statement that the immigrants are law abiding is flawed. They are inherently law breakers since they are existing day to day illegaly, gaining govt services and education based on lies, and exploiting as many systems as they possibly can. They are not as vital to this economy as they want us to believe. If they were paying taxes and putting thier earning into US banks rather than cashing at check cashing store and sending 60 percent back to Mexico, then maybe they would be vital. As it is now, they are a blip on the radar and a nuisance that need to be dealt with.

By Man of Science

September 21, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

Realist,

“resorting to violence is a sign of an inferior mind”….you sound like a damn liberal talking about Bush now…don’t be like them.

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

Let’s face it, the Woo-ten KKKlan kkkons are just a pack of jackals - one wants to kill me, others want me dead, still others want to silence me, and one wants to engage me in his sick sexual fantasies.

A few days ago, the Pope said something truthful about Islam and violent conversion - then a bunch of crazy Mohammedans go on a torching and shooting spree which sort of proves the Pope’s point…

The same kind of thing happened here today - I present facts showing how stupid and violent rednecks are, then the idiots go crazy, and some of them want me dead, and one of them wants to lynch me.

Realisp, you could have been grateful to me for truthfully pointing out to you several times recently that you are a no account, from a long line of no accounts, that you have a penchant for violence, that you are a filthy racist from a long long line of filthy inbred racists, but no, you decide you want me lynched. You could have typed, “gee, Mr. Rednecks sir, I am a silly stupid cowardly redneck POS, but you know what, I am going to try to be different.”

But no. You threaten me, albeit in cyberspace, not to my face, like the coward you are.

Thanks to you, and all the other trash - tftt, Eric, Dusty, Sarah, etc. - for proving my point about what violent vile crap the American redneck truly is.

You people are a blight on human decency.

By Realist

September 21, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

LOL I was totally kidding. Im down with slapping folks who need slapping. Sad thing is, you do it now, and you sit in jail for 6 months then end up in civil court sued for all kinds of punitive damages and violations of human rights and dignities. All from one little tap on the beak. John Wayne must be turning over in his damn grave.

By Jerry

September 21, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

In most manufacting sectors and that includes farming operations labor cost are less than 5% of the cost of goods.

So for an item that cost $10 to produce that means $.50 or less was for labor. If you doubled wages the cost of the $10 item would jump a whooping $.50. “Cheap” labor is not an issue with which to be concerned.

By getalife

September 21, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this

Actually lies, I don’t have to post anymore.

People see your mindset and they do not want to be like you.

Keep up the good work and thanks for your support to bring accountability back to government.

By JK

September 21, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this

Mr. Wooten posed a good topic today, but I don’t think we’ve reached any depth in terms of what must be addressed in order to bring about a solution.

Legal issue: Why aren’t current laws consistently enforced? Who exactly is responsible/accountable for the lack of consistent enforcement? Insufficient personnel? Was funding cut? Who’s accountable for results? What would a “round up” entail and how much would it cost? What are the law-enforcement issues to resolve?

Foreign policy issue: People in our hemisphere are so utterly poverty-stricken that they repeatedly risk death and endure much to sneak over here to pick veggies, clean toilets, and blow leaves. Many would rather be among family, friends, and familiar culture, but risk it all to EAT and to keep loved ones from starving. WHY do their home gov’ts ignore the lack of opportunity and the abject squalor? What is being done to develop new industry and commerce (how bout new energy sources) that can employ the people of this hemisphere in their own lands?

Tax dollar issue: How much money will we have to borrow from China or cut from our own domestic needs to pay for this wall… EXACTLY? Who will be hired (Halli-buds fer sure…) to do this, and who’s going to oversee yet another accounting disaster authorized by our current Congress?

Lots o’ talk. Lots o’ questions. Not many real answers.

By getalife

September 21, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

BTW, there are 100 people killed in Iraq everyday.

Lets vote for accountability for this disaster.

Thank you for your support.

By Political Foreskin

September 21, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

zzzzz

By Realist

September 21, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this

JK, I have to be brief because I have to flee. Its poker night.

First, to your legal issue, I refer you to my post at 4:30 regarding the border patrols right to stop illegal vehicles. When you ask who is responsible for lack of enforcement, I think I answered you clearly. Radical human rights activists represented by the left, thats who. We cant even begin a roundup or any other measures because the left block even the simplest of techniques law enforcement can use to detain and arrest these people.

As to your foreign policy question: Mexican govt cant build enough infrastructre to keep up with the baby machines the mexican seem to be. The population is overwhelming the resources. If we dont deal with it now, wait and see what this country looks like 20 years from today.

To your tax question, the price of the wall is neglibel, as I stated in earlier posts. This is not an expensive undertaking for our government. There is more than enough in DHS budgets today to cover this project.

I have stayed on topic fairly well today thank you, and addressed many of the concerns you expressed.

Now, as Im sure you will ramble on with a bunch of nonsense about borrowing from China and the huge deficit (which was created by horrible Clinton Economic policy in his second term and a recession that started before 9/11). I bid you all a good evening!!

By Political Foreskin

September 21, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

Yes, for Realisp, Thursday nite is strip poker nite with his friends. (lucky sailors)

By time for the truth

September 21, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this

rednekkks NAMBLA’s latest lies and paranoid delusions are quite pleasing to behold. Its very very easy to get it to melt down on here.

I understand that rednekkks NAMBLA is still frequently used by homosexuals seeking a permanent change to their condition in several Virginia Highlands aversion therapy clinics.

By JK

September 21, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

Realist, Monica me, Dude. Nothing about your arrogant swagger impresses me, and BTW, John Wayne was an ACTOR, in other words, a POSER, like you.

By Liberal

September 21, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

I usually don’t like to do the whole linking thing, but I found this to be interesting. I don’t want to hear any more crazy talk about how Democrats or liberals are teaming up with the enemy in order to undermine the president.

By JK

September 21, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this

And to address Bama boy’s “points,” if it’s soooo darn simple, and all figgered out, as you say, great tub o’ wisdom, then why haven’t your heroes who control all three branches of government just followed your oh-so simple advice and solved the problem? It’s not like the Democrats have the votes in Congress to stand in the way! After six years of TOTAL governmental control — no solution, no wall, no secure border, no stem to the brown tide, NOTHING, ZIP ZILCH NOTTA. And you say human rights activists stand in the way? HAHAHAHA! Yeah right. That would be like me standing between you and your heaping plate of bacon at the Shoney’s breakfast buffet in Sylacauga.

By Markus

September 21, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this

Hey liberal anti-American Rednex!

You throw your BS around this forum daily, then whimper like a $10 crack whore beaten by her pimp cuz she didn’t come up with enough bread.

Listen to your pathetic self. You used a graphic expression to describe me earlier today. But, it doesn’t bother me. That’s why I generally don’t respond to your wicked extremist leftists anti-American venom on this blog. Scum like you are dead to me. You and your ilk in this nation are the walking “Sixth Sense” dead as far as I’m concerned. So go ahead, continue mouthing off here towards your betters. It’s not like we really care about your pathetic miserable life.

By time for the truth

September 21, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this

Liberal

that is just a one off - and was clearly done for political cover rather than a heartfelt ‘patriotic’ defence of Bush who they normally sneer all day long at. But they did it - so a tiny amount of grudging respect is due to them. Funny how so few other lefties have done this though!!

By Markus

September 21, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

Hey Liberal, care to know why Democrats are finally speaking up against Chevez? He said what the DEMOCRATS have been saying about Bush since of 2000.

Who said this, Liberal?

“Republicans are evil.”

This was WELL over a year ago, and here’s your answer if you couldn’t come up with it.

No, Chevez could be the spoken one for raticunderground.com and Flair America and Peeon.org.

By Markus

September 21, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this

Iowa Democratic Senator Tom Harkin sure had no problems with what Chevez said…

http://www.radioiowa.com/gestalt/go.cfm?objectid=020BFC5A-FA7D-42CC-9BA6A4ED9DA063B8

By Liberal

September 21, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this

Well, at least TFTT gave a nod…sort of at least.

Markus,

Dean did say that. Although I agree with his politics, he is a little unpolished. But I don’t understand your assertion that Democrats spoke out against Chavez because of their own criticisms of Bush.

By Liberal

September 21, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this

Actually what Harkin said was that the comments were “incendiary”, but at the same time he understands why others in the world are frustrated at Bush’s foreign policy.

That’s not exactly an endorsement of Chavez’s rantings at the UN.

By Markus

September 21, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

What Dean said:

“This is a struggle of good and evil. And we’re the good.” Pretty much NARROWS that choice down, doesn’t it?

Another favorite that I HAVE on audio: “I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for.”

Oh yeah. We’re gonna watch you Democrats packpedal BIGTIME over this one. Too bad your heros are on record and on tape for the past six years.

By jbmlaw

September 21, 2006 05:56 PM | Link to this

Terminator @ 4:16, you mean Citgo, not Chevron. Chevron is legitimate.

By Pope rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 05:58 PM | Link to this

Hugo Chavez smelled the Debbil herself yesterday - evidently Dumbya didn’t douche the day before…

By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda

September 21, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this

Well, girls, I sure had fun playing with y’all today. Especially Miss Fancypants Markanus.

By Markus

September 21, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this

You only played with yourself as usual, Liberal Rednex anti-American’s al Qaida. Don’t sell yourself shorter than your limpwristed liberal womanhood.

By Pope rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda I

September 22, 2006 12:14 AM | Link to this

That Missy Markanus - so cute when she’s pouty. And so fiesty! Too bad she’s a girl - our frontline troops could use someone with her spirit!

By ACT

September 22, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

That’s what Stillmore gets for relying on people who shouldn’t be here in the first place.

Am I supposed to feel sorry for companies who willingly participate in illegal hiring? Sorry. I don’t.

Come to the country legally and you are welcomed with open arms. Otherwise, may I suggest that people implement reform in their own country. Trying to demand amnesty from a country in which one is not a citizen is ridiculous. And the United States is foolish for doing it the first time.

Build a wall, upgrade our immigration system, encourage those who are unhappy with their country to initiate change within their own Government. We have to do it all the time.

By The Terminator

September 22, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

Thank you jbmlaw. I’d just returned from my daily spin in the “drying cycle” and didn’t notice I had inadvertently typed Chevron instead of the intended CITGO. Thank you for correcting my error.

BOYCOTT CITGO..BOYCOTT CITGO..BOYCOTT CITGO

By The Terminator

September 22, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

Thank you jbmlaw for clarifying my post yesterday afternoon. I’d just returned from my daily spin in the “drying cycle” and didn’t notice I had inadvertently typed Chevron instead of the intended CITGO. Thank you for correcting my error.

BOYCOTT CITGO—BOYCOTT CITGO—BOYCOTT CITGO

By Liz

September 26, 2006 05:13 PM | Link to this

To the person who said illegal immigrants do not have SS#s.You are wrong. They have to have SS#s to work and taxes are taken out of their pay.They generally do not file an income tax return to obtain their refunds.How many of you know that Arizona,California,Colorado,New Mexico,Nevada and Utah were all part of Mexico? US fought a war so that it could take that land from Mexico.The USA has to change and realize there are many positives having a diverse population.