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DEL.ICIO.USRoadblocks won’t deter charter school
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
When the history of education reform in Georgia is written, the valiant struggle of parents determined to have an alternative to Atlanta public schools should be noted, for it is an example of the persistence required of pioneers and reformers.
Achieve Academy, the charter school the Atlanta Board of Education sought to close in July, was given new life by Fulton Superior Court Judge Constance C. Russell after parents challenged the board’s decision. The struggle now is to find a home, to reassemble staff and to attract parents, most of whom have already enrolled their children in traditional public schools, where classes started Aug. 14.
Principal David Morgan plans to have Achieve back together and running by next Tuesday in a new location. The school board denied Achieve parents permission to lease last year’s site, the old G. B. Peterson Elementary facility near Fort McPherson, a school that closed in 2004 because of low enrollment.
“From the taxpayers’ point of view, Achieve is turning out higher-performing kids at half the cost, and that school is sitting empty and is being vandalized on a regular basis,” says Glenn A. Delk, an Atlanta attorney who represented Achieve’s parents in contesting the school board decision. School officials have said they have other uses planned for the building.
When Achieve reopens, Morgan expects to have 200 children or more for grades 5-8, even though the new location will be “our fourth building in four years,” he says. “It’s been a team juggling act, but the reason we have been able to keep the overwhelming number of parents is because of the results we have produced year after year. They will go to the ends of the earth to keep this school going.”
Achieve’s predicament is partly self-inflicted. A former board of what was then called KIPP Achieve Academy decided last November to surrender the school’s charter. A new board notified the Atlanta school board that it wished to continue operations, but the APS board voted to close it. Parents sued and won a temporary injunction allowing Achieve to remain open.
Achieve’s struggle comes on the heels of a national study by the National Center for Education Statistics that fuels the debate about charter school performance. According to the data, fourth-graders in traditional public schools in 2003 did slightly better on average in reading and math than those in charter schools.
The center looked at 2003 data from 6,764 traditional public schools and 150 charter schools. After adjusting for family characteristics, such as income, traditional school fourth-graders scored 4.2 points higher in reading and 4.7 higher in math on a 500-point scale, according to the center.
The two sides of the charter school movement read the study differently. U.S. Department of Education officials called a news conference to distance themselves from it.
Jeanne Allen, president of the Center for Education Reform in Washington, said in an interview Friday that the study “flies in the face of everything we actually know about charter school achievement state-to-state.” She continued:
“In every state where we have data, charter schools are in fact beating their traditional school counterparts by several points, sometimes 10 or more … The comparisons that were made in the recent government study are false comparisons. They were apples-to-oranges. They did not have anything to do with whether students are achieving in charter schools. They told a story about how charter school students performed on one test at one snapshot in time.”
The poverty data used to adjust scores were “seriously flawed,” Allen said in an earlier release. “The education establishment — teachers, unions, school boards associations and more —tout these flawed studies in an attempt to discredit new school opportunities for parents.” She urged parents to look at state-level assessments to “get a real picture of student achievement.”
On those, Achieve students have fared well, says Morgan, and deserve the chance to continue. “As long as we are producing results,” he said Friday, “the public will be on our side. I don’t want the public to be on our side if we are not producing results for our students. All eyes are on us and now the real work begins, producing children who are intellectually capable of competing globally.”
At Achieve, he said, “We work hard and stay in school longer and make sure what we are teaching them is what they need to know.”
Pull for them, and for the children and for their determined parents. They are pioneers struggling to survive in a harsh educational and political environment.
• Jim Wooten is associate editorial page editor. His column appears Tuesdays, Fridays and Sundays.
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Comments
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 08:06 AM | Link to this
Good morning all. Charter schools are a desirable half-way step to true freedom, school vouchers, and I would support the concept even if they produced worse average scores. Monopolies are inherently evil and serve nobody’s interests, save those who are paid by the monopoly; monopolies can exist only with the aid and protection of the government. Evil, even with good intentions or even with good results, remains evil. I am amazed that the same people who complain about the breadth of WalMart’s reach are the biggest opponents to any public school funding alternatives.
I don’t hate public schools. I attended public schools through the 12th grade, and my sons attended public schools. Nevertheless, when Boortz rails against “government schools” and uses the term “indoctrination,” he certainly touches a nerve for me. When my genius son was in the second grade, he came home one day and asked me, “Dad, why do people want to kill the spotted owls?” I partially contained my rage at the incompetent teacher for the deception, and told him that I was disappointed with her for not telling the rest of the story. I praised him for asking the question, and then discussed with him how lumberjacks earn their living, so they can take care of their children. I also urged him to tell his classmates the rest of the story.
Had this not been a time in my life when I was starting up my private practice, my sons would have been in private schools the next day. Instead, we devised a “home school” supplement. Every Sunday morning, before church, we had the “10 cent competition,” (named after the reward for a successful guess) to identify either the composer or the country of the composer’s birth – unfortunately Dr. Haas was not on the radio where we lived then. My younger son read “Atlas Shrugged” in the 8th grade, and both of my sons were able to intelligently discuss Kant and Hume and Nietzsche before starting high school, and analyze comparative ethics cases I would bring them from the morning papers. It seems to me that there is much education that is not available in public schools.
By Brian Curtis
August 29, 2006 08:21 AM | Link to this
Of course there’s a lot to learn that’s not taught in public schools… which is why the conservative dream of dismantling the small portion of education all kids DO get always puzzles me.
Do we really need an uneducated underclass that badly? I thought that’s what illegal immigrants were for.
By waz
August 29, 2006 08:21 AM | Link to this
Of course, it’s the union, teachers,school boards,and any one else who has afinancial interest in not having charter schools. Only thirty-two pecent of children care givers are teachers. Lets watch the flood teachers,and union e-mails against charter schools come in.
By Van
August 29, 2006 08:55 AM | Link to this
In Jim’s article, a paragraph stood out -
““From the taxpayers’ point of view, Achieve is turning out higher-performing kids at half the cost, and that school is sitting empty and is being vandalized on a regular basis,” says Glenn A. Delk, an Atlanta attorney who represented Achieve’s parents in contesting the school board decision. School officials have said they have other uses planned for the building.”
“at half the cost”, in a system that is constantly wanting to raise taxes and spend - spend - spend, why is the establishment against this type of charter school?
By Van
August 29, 2006 08:58 AM | Link to this
Brian Curtis,
Why do liberals want to have a generation of dim witted people?
Conservatives want better schools, not an uneducated underclass, thats what we are getting now.
By Retroactive Flashback
August 29, 2006 09:03 AM | Link to this
I googled the Achieve Academy. Their mission statement is interestingly phrased: “Hard Work”.
The phrase, “Hard Work”, has long been a social benediction, like “bless you” when you sneeze, “show me your tatoo”, when you rave, or “jesus loves you” when you vote.
It recently has had the status of a secret handshake, a pre-screening of new acquaintances as a sort of “I’m okay, You’re okay” litmus test: “I just said ‘hard work’ and you didn’t flinch, so we are well-bonded. Have a bud.”
The most aggregious use of ‘hard work’ was when Bush used it to describe our occupation of Iraq. I’ve always relegated that phrase to cleaning our barns or some other such manual labor.
I am not capable of demeaning the sacrifices our army is making with euphemisms. The price of freedom is death, and Bush can do the hard work necessary to plow his lower forty, and do me the service of shutting his fat mouth whenever he feels the urge to describe the war. (with his command of our language and all).
By Monarch Hames
August 29, 2006 09:11 AM | Link to this
Cell phone ban. Nuclear power in peoples back yards. Levees breaking at the right place. Charter shcools. Same oppression stories everyday. Those in charge do not want those in need to get ahead.
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this
Dr. Sowell offers his “random thoughts today.” I share two:
“Some people are so busy being clever that they don’t have time to be intelligent.”
“A public opinion poll back in 1964 asked if America was worth fighting for — and 87 percent of blacks said “yes.” Today, it is doubtful if any segment of the population would give that answer that often.”
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2006/08/29/random_thoughts
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this
Monarch @ 9:11, the man is holding you back. You have nothing to lose but your chains.
By Lola
August 29, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this
@Monarch - I don’t even know which one of your wacky misguided conspiracy theories to address first, so I’ll just suffice it to laugh really hard at all of them.
@Retroactive - congratulations on finding a way to segway from a discussion about a charter school in downtown Atlanta to a Bush-bashing Iraq War diatribe in one sentence. Hate much?
By Lola
August 29, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this
Those in charge do not want those in need to get ahead.
Those in charge have done what is necessary to get ahead, while those in “need” have done nothing to advance themselves. In case you haven’t heard, all people of all races are equal by law in the USA, and are given the same opportunities and freedoms as everyone else. Anyone who doesn’t succeed in this country has nobody to blame but themselves. Get off the blame train and start taking responsibility for your own life and your own decisions. It’s not the responsibility of those “in charge” to advance those “in need”.
By Hadden Knough
August 29, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this
Van - Liberal educational goals don’t stop with an undereducated underclass. They want us ALL dumbed down to a level where we’ll believe whatever nonsense they spout and jump when they tell us to. Their shock and anger that people are actually questioning and rejecting the left-wing agenda is evident when they disparage our intelligence. But, like most things in the liberal world, they are incapable of saying what they really mean. They don’t demean us because they think we lack intelligence, rather they fear us because we see through the lies and deception, and because we are capable of decision making and don’t need them to tell us how to think and run our lives. Educated people - people who can think for themselves - are a threat to the “progressive” world they envision. Ironic isn’t it?
By Retroactive Flashback
August 29, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this
I would defend law’s hysteria and his spotty insertions of padded logic, unpulled strings of truth, and iron-poor Bush plugs to the last drop of HIS blood.
We all support your decision to join our troops in Iraq, law. God speed, and may you survive the hard work ahead. (and take your genius son with you)
We’ll stay here and save the country from facists like you and your genius son.
Keep your a*ss down when the work gets real hard, hero. It’s over for you law. over. Bush is finished. Republicans are finished. And in November, when the terror alerts are raised to new levels for votes, and the American people vote their minds not their hearts, a landslide of epic proportions will sweep across the fascists landscape and wash away the flotsam of unflushed treason that the scoundrels like you take refuge behind.
Sunshine is the best disinfectant, sir, and you are baked!!
Mine eyes can see the glory of the hanging of the screwed, they have plundered our resources at the gain of just a few, but now we have them by the short hairs and we’ll vote in a new crew and truth will march right on!!!!
By Redneck Convert
August 29, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this
I’m a little late this morning on account of my mortar mixer had a flat tire on my way home. Anyway, there’s no work for me today on account of all the illegal Mexicans took the jobs and I ain’t workin’ for no 3 bucks an hour. My buddy Jim Earl says its the Dems fault and I believe him. I know no Republican would hire cheap labor and put people like me out of work.
I say let’s get rid of all public education past the fifth grade, which was more than I could handle anyway. Stop wasting tax money turning out educated idiots. Let the charter schools and the private schools handle anything past the fifth grade. And if you can’t handle the tuition for your kids, then it means God is punishing you and your kids for something you done. The only thing government should handle is enforcing the law and executions.
By the way, I went to the vadare.com web site and that guy sure Thinks Right, almost as good as Wooten. He sure knows how to blast the blacks, the gays, and the libruls. He needs to be president. We could put the pencil-neck libruls and Those People in their place then. I sure hope “time for the truth” is that guy. If it turns out he is, we’ll make him an Honorary Redneck and give him tips on how to hang sheetrock and lay bricks. We might even invite him up to Billy Bob’s for a Pabst Blue Ribbon on us.
By Retroactive Flashback
August 29, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this
Convert: Funny, funny stuff!! Mark Twain would be proud.
By Van
August 29, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this
Hadden Knough,
You post gives new meaning to a tolerant and diverse school system, it is tolerant as long as you agree and is diverse in thought along the same lines.
Step outside the bounds of acceptable adherence to dogma and you will be crushed under the heels of the mighty.
By JoeD
August 29, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this
to Hadden:Conservatives can see through the lies and deceptions, Huh? That explains why GWB got re-elected, doesn’t it? You guys saw right through his lies and deceptions. Did it ever occur to you that the GOP has controlled the state and federal governments for the last 4 and 6 years respectively? Any criticism of the “liberal agenda” is useless and empty. And, by the way, no one does more disparaging of people’s intellects than the GOP and its supporters. Anyone who disagrees with Our Beloved Leader or the GOP party line has their intelligence, patriotism and cojones challenged on a daily basis. IF any party doesn’t want an educated underclass , it’s the GOP.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this
Brainless Curtis is typical of far left lefties. Any challenge to the public sector liberal educational hegemony and the dishonest screeching begins. Its bigotry, barely thinly disguised.
Liberals with their endemic control over teacher training and teachers - and NO ONE ELSE - have dumbed down education to the point kiddies cant read or write at anything like the same age level(s) they could even twenty years ago.
Freeloading illegal immigrants and their refusal/inability to speak English plus racial pandering to other poorly achieving minorities are hugely responsible for this evil travesty. Along with the moronic liberal obsession with multiple choice tests and dumbing down of grades and pass marks. Such multiple choice tests severely hamper the kiddies in their increasingly halting attempts to string grammatical, written sentences together, culminating in pathetic essay, report and business letter writing skills. This undeniably bleeds through to the more adult oriented college level and the business sector where way too many of these wonderfully self absorbed, high self esteem victims cannot function without remedial education.
Only s smug hateful liberal moron would wilfully sacrifice the future education of American kids for the multi-culti interest of illegals, as is occurring now in many border states, urban areas and in Georgia - in fact all across the fruited plain. It doesn’t take an educational theory expert to see that forcing non-English speaking kids to ‘learn’ smirk with English speaking kids instantly dumbs down the whole process.
The vast number of Americans dont give a flying toss about multiculturalism in the classroom. They want their kids formally well educated, and not brainwashed with lefty liberal agendas and the depravity of (the politics of) homosexuality forced down their throats in liberal run classrooms.
100 years or so ago American schools actually educated kids who graduated to a superb level of meaningful college level attainment. Nowadays thanks to selfish leftist classroom control freakery the ephemeral puffery of self esteem and racial pandering is way more important than this long vanished gold standard level of excellence.
If you despise liberals for only one thing - make it for what they have done and are doing to America’s kids!!
By @@
August 29, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this
Mr. Wooten:
I’m a big advocate of charter schools. It’s always been pretty apparent why the local BOE’s make it difficult to establish one. They may not like their own reflection in the mirror of a charter school. Finding qualified teachers could be a problem. The state funded benefits are certainly attractive enough to keep government teachers in government schools.
Are teachers at the charter school eligible for any of those benefits? Can they enroll in the teacher’s union. I don’t know, I’m asking. If not, you could assume that they’re dedicated to their profession rather than their own self-interest.
I’m also in favor of alternative schools. While there are kids who may be determined to cause problems no matter where they attend, there are also those kids who will perform better in a more structured setting set up in such a way to spark their individual interest in something. I’m thinking vocational, expressive art, etc. There are a lot of innovative ways to inspire a child. Unfortunately, I don’t find much innovative thinking in the government schools.
Since you’re topic yesterday was Katrina and New Orleans, I was reminded of an unfortunate story shared by my friends in New Orleans.
As a result of the destruction, schools were scrambling to accomodate students. Limited resources forced the system to incorporate alternative students in with the standard system. They staggered lunches, start and end times, but to no avail. It didn’t work. The alternative students were expelled. Now granted, they were accountable for the consequences of their actions. They had done well in their alternative school prior to Katrina, but now they were left to roam the streets under the worst of circumstances.
The Algiers Charter School Association presented a proposal to the BOE asking that an alternative school be allowed to operate. It was rejected because the officials were intent on finding outside funding to operate alternative schools. They were only taking applications for the traditional public school settings. Now if ever there was a time to apply innovative thinking, that was the time and they failed.
Some people may disagree with me, but I don’t think that any child is disposable and the BOE in Algiers decided those kids were.
Shame on them.
By Hadden Knough
August 29, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this
JoeD, Just out of curiosity, who controlled the state and federal governments prior to the 4 and 6 years respectively?
By Retroactive Flashback
August 29, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this
Tell me that Timefortruth didn’t just say, “Read my lips” in her absorbing, yet strangely spotty comment at this time of the month.
It cost Bush Sr. a second term. That phrase needs to go.
Shame on her and beware the ides of march. :)
By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda
August 29, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this
Charter schools will not solve the problems of southern edumacation.
Hard work? Try getting people who think “learn” is a four-letter word to value education and learning over violence, drugs, alcohol, and whoring.
By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda
August 29, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this
some flatullence from tftt:
…and the depravity of (the politics of) homosexuality forced down their throats in liberal run classrooms.
Tell us more about your schooling in the UK, tftt.
smirk
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this
rednekkks NAMBLA - go stalk your soul mate Karr who is now free to marry you in Boston after the small matter of his child porno charges in Kalifornia have been dealt with!!
By Van
August 29, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this
JoeD,
It seems the other way around, Joe Lieberman agreed with the Dems 95% and was blasted, while conservative folks do not always support the President, Arlen Specter as an example.
I am just glad the democrats are not my sole support, I would not survive.
By Monarch Hames
August 29, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this
jmblaw and Lola - your so smart you should know that that those at top stay there because they keep the others down. Laws are for cover. Laws don’t change years of oppression. Andy was put down because he tells the truth. Veron is a hero to his bosses because he helps divide and conqueor. Charters take from those who need it most and give it to those who can pay for it.
By harold
August 29, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
charter schools are not as successful as one might hope because the parents are such overacheivers.
they have to do their overachievement stuff to get the charter school started. once it’s going, they overachieve elsewhere figuring their groundwork in establishing a charter school will reap the benefits that otherwise attending to their children’s education on a daily basis for 12 years would have.
they think if they work real hard for a couple years to get a charter school, that after that everything will take care of itself.
it won’t.
teh only reason the charter schools dont fail outright is the students are brighter than normal. they can do average even without the involvement of their parents.
if only parents would pay attention to their children, they wouldnt have to come up with these c—kamamie concepts on how to educate their children without their own daily involvement
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
Homosexuality - your sole reason for living and wasting US oxygen rednekkks NAMBLA is just part of the official leftist/liberal brainwashing of kids in the classroom. This is the only way that liberals can get kids to accept homosexuality, by ramming homo propaganda down their throats very young, before their critical factor kicks in.
Explain to us rednekkks NAMBLA why it is that liberals who have been in charge of educational theory and teacher training for decades NOW produce countless kids at age 18 who cannot read and write properly, do algebra, calculus, read/write latin and many other demanding subjects now shamefully discontinued even close to the same level they could 100 years ago!!
You yourself sneer at the kids for being stupid NAMBLA - but if they are poorly taught by poor liberal teachers its hardly surprising!! THis is a national problem too - not just confined to the south!!
100 years ago rednekkks NAMBLA, kiddies were NOT allowed SIX or more attempts to pass the high school graduation exam. They repeated the year. But the NAACP and others have ensured this honourable practice that EQUALLY applied to ALL has been eviscerated.
The most important single factor that’s changed since the golden days of 100 years ago and the incredibly high standards achieved then is liberal teaching unions pushing for effectively unmonitored lifetime tenure dominating public schools!!
By harold
August 29, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
what does marlin brando got to do with it?
By JoeD
August 29, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this
Liebermann was voted out by people who didn’t feel he was representing them the way they wanted him to represent them. That doesn’t mean that Democrats, or liberals, don’t want disagreement. They want someone to represent them as they see fit, which is what the system is all about. And we all know Arlen Specter is persona non grata with most Republicans, and has been for a long time. Hadden, my point was that there is no “liberal” agenda being pushed at this time. The GOP has a lock on what happens these days. Your attack on the “liberal agenda” is just the setting up of a straw man to distract from the problems at hand.
By Rod
August 29, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this
Hey TFTT, I see you’re spouting off your hateful diatribe once again. You’re blaming the lefties and liberals for everything again (because you and your rightous bretheren are all gods and aren’t to blame for anything).
You love to tell others what the truth is (which in your pathetic mind is anything you want it to be, ignoring facts as usual). You curse the lefties for all of the illegal immagrants - the real reason this country is becoming flooded with illegals is because BUSH doesn’t have the balls to do anything about it! The people of this country have been screaming for the past 3-4 years to get something done: not only shore up the boarders but round them up and kick them out! Bush is to busy murdering more and more U.S. soldiers by having them in a war that never should have started (yeah, weapons of mass destruction - the only one is Bush’s mind).
All Bush and his Republican Congress would have to do is enact new rules and this country could rid itself of the problem overnight. With a same party President and Congress, it would take no time. But, again, the castrated President has no balls.
By Van
August 29, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this
JoeD,
When Lieberman go zero support from the local democrapic party, what do you call that? The President did campaign for Specter during his last election.
By five o'clock somewhere
August 29, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this
10:25AM comment by Monarch:
‘those at top stay there because they keep the others down’
What typical idiotic libbie mentality. Those at the top get there from hard work. Those at the bottom stay there because they don’t search out new opportunities..they live day to day, check to check. As someone once said, the successful stay successful because of their habits so as do the unsuccessful staying unsuccessful. Of course, standing around while a hurricane is bearing down waiting for the supreme federal gov’t to rescue you doesn’t help either. Let’s give a big ‘hoorah!’ to libbies and the jacked up left for wanting to sink the ship to level the swimming field for those that can’t swim.
By Rod
August 29, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this
Hey JoeD, you know the idiots on this site that love to bash the liberals do so because they can’t think of doing anything else (except masterbate). They blame everything on the liberals. They don’t have the intelligence to actually figure anything out on their own.
Sort of like in the fifties, if someone didn’t like you they just called you a communist. Same thing - they play the blame game and say everything is the fault of the liberals (poor schools, the war, global warming, their bad marriages, etc). They are the ones in complete power (President/Congress) and keep blaming! With complete power - if they had any brains - they could fix all the problems they claim exist. They’re just idiots who love to spout off and things they don’t know anything about.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this
hey moron Rod
instead of your usual witless diatribe why dont you actually address the FACTUAL, LOGICAL points I made about the appalling systematic dumbing down of education by liberals … but that would require actual reading skills and the ability to inwardly digest on your part - silly me - I know that was very unfair of me!!.
Instead you just hurl more envious Bush hate which as ever is freaking hilarious.
By Hadden Knough
August 29, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this
JodeD -
So, the Democratic party - the liberal party - has no agenda it is pushing for the upcoming elections or for 2008? Thanks for the warning.
Just because the other party is in power doesn’t mean you can’t offer alternatives or work together rather than just opposing everything the other guy says. That is what the system is all about.
By the way, you are right about Liebermann. He was voted out by his party fair and square like it or not.
By Rod
August 29, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this
I see TFTT avoided the issue again. She only talks about what she can throw a spin on. She knows that Bush could stop illegal immigration within 30 days, but she ignores that so she can blame liberals for everything else. Whatever.
All that bashing and she is actually living off the government (I have a friend who works at the AJC and I got her email and did various searches of her through the internet. She’s 50 years old and has been living off of Social Security Disability for the past 7 years - and she wants to bash the liberals?)
By Renee
August 29, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this
Hey Hadden Knough - the point is, the Republicans are in power (absolute) but they aren’t getting anything done!!! They are doing nothing to improve the country. All the supporters can do on these blogs is blame the Democrats for everything. If you’re in power, then get off your a*******es and do something positive for the country!
By Bluer
August 29, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this
Rod - How bright are you to tell the world that you have a friend at the AJC who violated the confidentiality of a contributor by giving you her email address? If you aren’t lying, I’m guessing that your AJC source won’t be your friend much longer. Nah - you gotta be lying.
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this
There is much wisdom in Harold’s 10:28 post; everything he affirms as a negative in charter schools is even truer of public schools.
Retroactive and Rod, don’t you guys ever post anything of substance? “Some people are so busy being clever that they don’t have time to be intelligent.”
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this
Rod @ 10:56, TFTT has been pretty candid on this website about health problems. What does that have to do with your arguments, or lack of same, on charter schools?
By Hadden Knough
August 29, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this
Renee -
I must respectfully disagree. Whatever you might think about the lack of Republican accomplishments, they are not in “absolute power”. Senate votes are always close and the Supreme Court votes liberal more often than not. If the Democrats choose to sit on their hands and relive their past glories instead of making an honest effort to participate in the government, that is their problem. Republicans were the minority party in this country for most of the last 70 years of the 20th century. I don’t recall that they pouted the whole time.
By Christie
August 29, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this
Charter schools are public, state-funded institutions and cannot charge tuition. Therefore, they are available to students of ALL income levels.
By dahreese
August 29, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this
Interesting how Jim Wooten is always putting down public education, especially since he’s never been a classroom teacher nor a school administrator and does not understand “first hand” the problems that public education faces every day - one being, that public education in this country has never been fully or properly funded.
Unfortunately, the average taxpayer buys into the idea that everytime taxes are being raised for public education all taxpayers are being ripped off. Jim Wooten personifies this type.
Although he’s aware of it, Mr. Wooten rarely acknowledges the influence of the “failing homes” and “failing parents” that these “failing schools” have to deal with, but he expects teachers to overcome that and still teach their subjects.
Blame it on the “bad teachers” is the easy way out, and Mr. Wooten takes it.
Our nations leaders, like Mr. Wooten, grumble at the quality of public education, but they aren’t about to dig down into their pockets and pay for what they want (It’s easier to gripe and say, “Look at what we’re already paying.”)because an investment in all of the people rather than some of the people will take money out of the pockets of big corporations and the already wealthy.
If this country has the best military in the world, it’s because it’s funded to be that way. If Mr. Wooten or anyone else wants the best educational system in the world, then funded it so that it can be so.
Until then….
By Monarch Hames
August 29, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this
The state is not run by ALL the income levels. Those that get in will be the higher ones. Only till there is a leveling of field so ALL are equal can schools be for ALL.
By JoeD
August 29, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this
Hadden, I didn’t say that the Democrats had no plan for 2008. I said there is no liberal agenda being pushed through the schools right now. Your straw man attempts to distract us from the discussions that Mr. Wooten has raised here. No amount of cleverness will cover the fact that the “liberal agenda” is not the issue. IF the GOP wants vouchers, or charter schools, or to disband the public education system, they could vote to do it today. it is not the “liberals” fault if it doesn’t get done.
By Markus
August 29, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this
Well, as usual, the usual loon liborat suspects like SpoilTheRod have to inject their non-toxic venom which is just irritating more than anything else. Then another jackass liborat had to flap it’s flatulence about Iraq.
Liberals whine about “hate” speech when conservatives speak out against public education.
Liberals whine that conservatives are “leaving others behind” when choosing to send their kids to private schools or pull them the hell out of public schools.
Liberals whine when a few kids are not keeping up with the rest of the class, the rest of the class must be held back. “Ok, all hundred people drop the rope because participant #101 can’t keep up! Therefore you will all fail equally!”
Liberals whine about those who have “Made It” must have stepped on the backs of others. So tell me loonbat liberals, how the hell does a Perimeter businessman step on a homeless bum downtown? Or a Katrina evacuee freeloading off the government in a nice Stone Mountain hotel (and killing a cop)? Or a meth head in Gwinnett?
Yeah, there we have it. The minute you choose to send your child somewhere other than a public school, you are divisive, racist, a bigot, full of hate, and just stepping on the backs of others. Between that and “progressive” income taxation and liberals not wanting the right of an individual to control his or her own money (instead of the government redistrbution program), I can sure see why conservatives call modern socialist liberals marxists. Typical sickness of liberalism: we’ll control you, and don’t you DARE rise up and so something on your own and leave someone else behind! The party of the jackass knows not what they do, but the Right sure does. Thanks liberal ladies, you can keep your neomarxist fascist policies for your new Cuba.
By Missy Rottweiler
August 29, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this
Conservatives won’t be happy until our school systems are turned into an American equivalent of Nazi Germany’s Hitler Youth with the charter schools reserved for the elite. Communal schools (it takes a village) for all are what is needed instead of special schools for the privileged. End the Bush world wars and make it happen.
By Markus
August 29, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
@dahreese:
“If this country has the best military in the world, it’s because it’s funded to be that way. If Mr. Wooten or anyone else wants the best educational system in the world, then funded it so that it can be so.”
An expected expectation from a liberal: just throw more money at it to fix it. Comparing the military to public education is laughable. Look up the facts: year after year we put more and more money into education and year after year we are getting diminishing returns. I think the NEA, the lovechild of Democrats, needs to be broken up. All those socialist liberals who think government is the answer to everything need to go find their own planet to leech off of.
By Scooter
August 29, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
The government gets its power from individuals who are not bright enough to succeed on their own and look to government to provide happiness, rather ensure the pursuit of happiness. Is it not a direct conflict of interest to have the government educate the children?
By get over yourself
August 29, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this
Markus and his rants again….oh boy. Tell us Markus, what is it exactly that you have against Katrina evacuees?
By Van
August 29, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this
Missy Rottweiler,
Welcome back, it doesn’t take a village, it take a set of parents that care, and that is 99.9% of the married couples raising children.
By Markus
August 29, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this
Ah yes, Ditzy Teacup poodle has to bring in the “nazi” argument. My bad folks, I forgot about one from the horseass left.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this
rod
today is education not illegals - except how they impact education. However you surely have read my posts that are openly contemptuous of the weakness of Bush on ilegals and his pandering refusal to secure the border and begin the mass deportations.
now having addressed your points doubtless you will address mine.
liberals have run education into the ground in this country. they have and still do largely control the teacher training, education theory, exams etc in many states and at federal level within the (national) civil service which is pretty liberal in education circles. its obviously difficult in one post to address all this.
in addition liberals have deliberately dumbed down grades, exams and teaching - to pander to illegals and non-English speakers and minorities. The army exams have been dumbed down to allow more minorities in - the high school exit exam now tests 14 year old maths and 16 year old English. Because of the NAACP and other minorities crying racism because the exams were “too hard” kiddies are now allowed numerous attempts to pass - unlike many years ago when they simply repeated the year. social promotion is a pretty worthless liberal education dogma - as is self esteem.
multiple choice tests have severely degraded the ability of older kiddies to write and make written arguments and write formal letters etc. they are unused to constructing and writing essays etc they way they had to 20/30 years ago - AND to the same standard. so long as they “understand” the issue/question poor spelling/grammar etc is too often tolerated.
clearly liberal educationalists are not the only ones to blame although theirs is by far the largest responsibility. pathetic parents who wont discipline or challenge their kids to improve their school performance also play their collective part. as does liberal popular culture with violent games/movies, the drug culture etc.
my wife graduated a year early in a metro Atlanta HS over 20 years ago.. Nowadays she sees college/univserity kiddies at university doing some of what she did at high school.
100 years or so ago kiddies who graduated local school usually had a superb education … 100 years later with huge economic and technical advances and liberal teacher unions kiddies today are way too often functioning illiterates or poorly educated and the subject range of their academic expertise has been stripped to the bone.
I’m sure you will either deny this or just rant again about Bush… but liberals are intellectually utterly dishonest if they deny this … just look at GA schools and the test scores. Teaching defensively to a test does NOT hone an analytical well rounded mind.
By Markus
August 29, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this
What did I have against Katrina evacuees? Nothing. They mooched off the government beforee, they mooch off the government afterwards. Same tick, different location.
By Hadden Knough
August 29, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this
JoeD - So, the the Democrats are waiting till 2008 to push their liberal agenda through the schools? Hmm, I’d feel better about mine already being out of public schools if they weren’t both being bombarded by the liberal agenda in college. Guess the higher education folks haven’t gotten the word about the “no agenda till we are elected” rule.
By get over yourself
August 29, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this
Markus—Are you sure about that? I mean a large portion of them were homeowners. Most of them had jobs. A lot of them were seniors and children. What about them Markus. You claim that you’re a Christian, but how did you feel when you saw children dehydrating and starving on national TV?
By Retroactive Flashback
August 29, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this
The Liberal Educational Agenda: Teach children that the earth is more than 6K years old, and dinosaur bones are not a trick played by God to test our faith, and dna mutates on a regular basis causing evolution.
The Mission of US troops in Iran: To secure the Iranian pipelines of influence at the bequest of elected Shia in Iraq. We fight for the same ends as the Shia Militia: secure the elected Shia’s liasons with the Iranian agenda of death to Israel, and death to the USA. Ironic? NO! This is bringing democracy and freedom to people who will use it to do as they please, and they please to destroy the USA. If bush had opened even one history book in 2002, he would have known that this would be the result of toppling Saddam Hussein. He’s a fool.
The Mahdi Army (Shia Militia) is the same army we had trapped in that mosque two years ago, but let go. We could have wiped them out, but Bush was too big of a pussycat. Now we’ve the devil to pay. Bush has never made the right call in Iraq, not once. Proof? The sunnis and shia are violating mosque sanctuary every day. They dont care, so why did we?
Not one aspect of the war in Iraq makes a lick o’ sense. Not one.
By Markus
August 29, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this
Ok, oh great Multiple ID one, I’ll answer your question with a question:
Why are all those South Mississippians, Western Alabamans, and non-New Orleans folks perfectly happy living in FEMA trailers not b!tching about what Bush should have done and playing the race card? The last time I looked, the Mississipp gulf coast has more than rednecks. Why are there still Katrina evacuees across the nation with NO JOB LIVING IN HOTELS STILL???
But I’m not going to allow you horseass liberals to spin off on the topic here. It’s about education and you neomarxist liberals squawking about “leaving others behind” if they say to hell with public education. You liberals are all for “choice” except in personal finances, education, healthcare, retirement…
By get over yourself
August 29, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this
Markus—You’re obviously unaware that a lot of the neighborhoods on the east side of New Orleans remained closed. So much for your “why are they still in hotels?” question. But you still didn’t answer my question…How did you feel when you saw children starving and dehydrating on national TV last year?
By Realist
August 29, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this
but how did you feel when you saw children dehydrating and starving on national TV
I thought, couldnt the camera man put down the camera and find that kid some water? I mean…..
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this
@ stop playing with yourself
Markus is making VERY OBVIOUS unassailable points about the large criminal element amongst Katrina refugees - not the majority of ordinary decent folks of all colours who were Katrina victims and DO NOT make other folks victims - explain for example the 25% increase in the Houston murder rate or the abuse of black school kids in TX or the abuse of FEMA funds for hookers and gucci handbags etc all of which is tied directly to black criminal Katrina refugees. Why do you lefty tosspots always ignore the awkward obvious points??!!
By Retroactive Flashback
August 29, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this
When markus types, “Katina victims” he means, “looters”. Never mind that Katrina hit florida first and caused no damage, yet Jeb Bush declared a state of emergency and pilfered the federal emergency disaster fund so the taxpayers were the first victims of Katrina Fraud, then a few days later the citizens of New Orleans were victims of Katrina part duh.
Markus is an idiot, by the way, and I think it’s a shame that his mother didn’t raise him to be a nicer girl.
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this
Missy @ 11:58, you are closer to the truth than you realize. Our children are already undergoing indoctrination, and charter schools and vouchers are the only foreseeable cure. May we count you as on our side?
By Markus
August 29, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this
What did I think about all those poor kids? I thought, “Why didn’t Nagin get those damn school buses rolling prior to the hurricane hitting? Why didn’t Nagin get trains rolling? Why didn’t Nagin and Blanco have an evac plan? Like other states like Florida?” That’s what I thought.
Then after sucking all the visuals in, when reading about crime shooting up 25% in Houston after evacuees were relocated there and the evacuee scum that shot and killed a young Stone Mountain cop father of two, I thought my suspicions on socialism as a failure are spot on. THAT is what I thought.
By Markus
August 29, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this
Jackhole ex-sixties hippy lib Flashback either can’t read or wants to conveniently ignore my comments ABOUT SOUTH MISSISSIPPI AND WEST ALABAMA Pathetic liberal.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this
When markus types, “Katina victims” he means, “looters”.
only some of them were looters rednekks NAMBLA … see how your usual intellectual dishonesty always oozes out when debating your conservative betters!!
I see rednekkks NAMBLA is not yet on a plane to Boulder to support his soul mate before his extradition hearing on child porn charges. Not standing by your man this time rednekkks?
By Liberal Drive-by
August 29, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this
The pennies that Katrina criminals took to buy lapdances don’t compare to the fraud taking place with Iraq contractors. But since it’s big business, con-men look the other way.
By get over yourself
August 29, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this
Markus and Time for the Douche,
HAHA! Not only did I succeed in winding you up, but Markus as well…and all I did was ask an innocent question. SMIRK
No one is denying the criminal element among some of the evacuees. But despite making any rational recommendations for recovery, you’re more worried about the few bad ones. I’ll tell my neighbor’s mother, who moved in with him because her home was destroyed in New Orleans, that she is a criminal and a lowlife. It’s a shame that she never realized that before, despite the fact that she always worked two jobs for her entire life…
You guys should tell us more about life in New Orleans.
By get over yourself
August 29, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this
That’s bullsh#t Markus! Before criticizing Nagin, you probably did a Google search and made sure that there was a “D” instead of an “R” after his name.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this
@ go play with yourself
the only thing you wound up was yourself tosspot!! any opportunity to verbally abuse and laugh at liberal morons is but a sign from the all compassionate Allah!! how fitting that a sad liberal wanker, like yourself, overtly runs away from its sincerely held unhinged views only AFTER being exposed for intellectual dishonesty and imbecility by its conservative betters!!!
By Realist
August 29, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this
It isnt just the criminal element of the Katrina situation who catch some of the blame in how this thing played out. I think what we saw in NO was entire culture and community who practiced self-servitude and lived a lax party lifestyle that bit them in the a*. Poor financial planning, improper or no insurance, and easy going lifestyle that put lviing in the moment ahead of sensible planning for the unforseen. When trouble befalls people such as this, its devastating because they have no foundation in thier life to deal with such emergencies. Hopefully for the smarter ones they have learned a valuabel life lesson after all this. But I doubt it because good old uncle sam came in with a grossly obscene amount of federal money to bail them out. If my take seems harsh, hey, its a harsh world. Plan accordingly.
By get over yourself
August 29, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this
Time for the Douche,
No one is running away. Still here and still debating. You yourself really don’t have any solutions, just complaints. Markus is the worst. He just stays mad all of the time for no reason at all. No need to wind him up, he stays wound up. Kind of goes back to his whole “lack of a sex life”.
You guys are better off staying on this blog and listening to Rush than venturing outside in the big scary world.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this
But Realist ….
these katrina thugs can always repeatedly mug and rob rednekkks NAMBLA/go play with yourself because it wont mind - it’s a loser who loves pandering to minority criminals!! Hell - he wont even report them - that’s how deranged his “white guilt” is!!
huge smirk
By get over yourself
August 29, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this
sad liberal wanker
@Time for the Douche and Markus,
Actually both of you could use a good wank. Why don’t you do each other a favor and blow off some steam?
SMIRK
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this
rednekkks NAMBLA
YOU NASTY LEFTIST LIAR!!
you dont ever debate on here.
you getting a late afternoon plane back to Boulder then?
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!
a major hissy fit by JM Karr’s soul mate!!
too funny … too funny
By Curious Observer
August 29, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this
It ill-serves the public interest to be promoting private schools, charter or otherwise, at the expense of public ones.
We should instead be demanding improvements in the public schools. We can start by getting rid of the “education” departments in the colleges and universities. With their death-grip on educational credentials, they repeatedly turn out the most mediocre of all college graduates to serve as the teachers. Even a Nobel Prize-winning university graduate cannot teach in a state school without submitting to the yoke of “education” courses, a collection of faux-psychology and methodology prescriptions. These courses give the boot not only to classroom imagination but also to other courses that might improve the subject matter expertise of the aspiring teacher.
There was a time when a teacher was respected as the most intelligent member of the community. Sadly, that’s far from true any more. Primary and secondary school teaching now attracts the least academically able within the college ranks. I’ve witnessed the phenomenon first-hand.
A second step to improvement is to start phasing out the mega-campuses that now masquerade as schools and to return to smaller neighborhood schools that invite parental involvement. We don’t need hordes of detached “counselors” in their citadels, flanked by sheep/teachers who are directed every step of the way by members of the all-powerful administration. We need smaller schools, staffed by extraordinarily qualified teachers who care enough to welcome parental involvement. Then and only then would I support higher teacher pay.
We have sold our educational birth-right for a mess of pottage—the lies that college education departments are the best qualified to produce good teachers and that bigger school campuses are good for most students. Until the public discerns the nature of these lies, we are doomed to finishing in the bottom 10 percent in national test scores and to continued wrangling about the need to promote private schools as an alternative.
By Rod
August 29, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this
Just think - if the Billions and Billions of dollars that were spent on the war in Iraq had been spent on improving the education system in the U.S., we’d actually have something positive to show for all that money. Instead, all we have to show are dead soldiers.
If you think prefering smarter children and a better future for the U.S. over a stack of dead soldiers is liberalism, then so be it. I call it responsibility.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this
I see Rod is still gutlessly avoiding actually responding to my thoughtful, logical post on education.
how typical …smirk
By Van
August 29, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this
Folks,
What is the differnce between the NO evacuee’s and the Mississippi gulf coast evacuee’s and the people the evacuated because of Rita?
Everyone BUT the NO evacuee’s are making progress.
Naggin and Blank-o have no plan for the recovery of New Orleans.
The people in the Mississippi delta are worse off, but it is New Orleans that is getting all the FEMA bucks that the state has not released - yet.
By Rod
August 29, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this
Hey TFTT, hardly. I asked you at 10:37 why Bush won’t stop the illegal immigrant problem. With a Republican Congress, all he’d have to do is snap his fingers and the borders would be shut and illegals would cease to flood the country - despite what any liberal politicians might say.
BUT, Bush doesn’t have the balls to do it. Why is that? Why doesn’t your God Bush fix that problem and all of the others that you blame the liberals for? With a Republican Congress he should be able to fix anything you want. Why isn’t he? Yeah, I asked you that along time ago and you ignored it.
Smirk
By the way, do you prefer dead soldiers to a brighter and smarter future for our children?
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this
come on Rod … if you dont accept my points then just hamnmer me factually, and easily show me where I’m wrong.
not being a coward are you - smirk
By Partisans Abound
August 29, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this
Why did the KIPP program rescind its support of Achieve Academy and disallow the use of their brand prior to the Atlanta Board of Education’s decision?
Why does KIPP still support another Atlanta charter but not Achieve Academy?
If the Atlanta Board of Education is hostile to charter schools, why do 7 others exist within the system?
The Atlanta Board of Education has raised taxes exactly once (this year) in the last decade, look it up.
The NCES’ study was flawed for the reasons cited and more.
Charters work, so far on a small scale, with the issue being how to expand their successes while maintaining their high standards. It’s one thing to teach students whose parents push them to excel and succeed and who obviously place a premium on education (hence the reason they looked into an alternative in the first place—they care) and teaching students without these “home-grown” incentives.
Education reform deserves an honest debate. Willful misrepresentaions on either side hinder the process.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this
rod’s cowardice is hilarious - I answered your point about Bush rod - see above - and then made several excellent ones about education - which is actually todya’s topic. I’m still waiting for your answer!!
By Rod
August 29, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this
TFTT, still waiting (music from Jeopardy playing in the background).
By Realist
August 29, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
From what I understand Blanko and Nagin and all the other LA politicians are trying thier best to figure out a way to loot those federal funds but GW, who must be smarter than some think, put in tons of obstacles and red tape to stop them. No wonder Nagin is so angry. Billions right there for the taking and he cant figure out a way to steal any for himself. I love it.
By Rod
August 29, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
TFTT - where did you answer the question about how Bush and a Republican Congress can’t stop the illegals and pass any bill they want? Specifically what time was your post?
You want an education topic? I gave you one at 1:06. I realize you probably failed out of the public school system, so I’ll repeat it for you:
“Just think - if the Billions and Billions of dollars that were spent on the war in Iraq had been spent on improving the education system in the U.S., we’d actually have something positive to show for all that money. Instead, all we have to show are dead soldiers.
If you think prefering smarter children and a better future for the U.S. over a stack of dead soldiers is liberalism, then so be it. I call it responsibility.”
By Realsit
August 29, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this
Why did the KIPP program rescind its support of Achieve Academy and disallow the use of their brand prior to the Atlanta Board of Education’s decision?
Because a young 24 year old black chick named “Kia”, who used to run the KIPP academy, “mishandled” aka STOLE funds from the school and then took off and left it in ruins. Thats why. Google it. It was all over the AJC.
If the crooks are running the programs in Atalnta, why shouldnt KIPP sever thier ties?
By Van
August 29, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
Rod,
Just a quick question.
What about the billions we pump into the educational system now? What have we gotten for that money. We need some solid result if the answer is - typical liberal request - more money.