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DEL.ICIO.USRoadblocks won’t deter charter school
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
When the history of education reform in Georgia is written, the valiant struggle of parents determined to have an alternative to Atlanta public schools should be noted, for it is an example of the persistence required of pioneers and reformers.
Achieve Academy, the charter school the Atlanta Board of Education sought to close in July, was given new life by Fulton Superior Court Judge Constance C. Russell after parents challenged the board’s decision. The struggle now is to find a home, to reassemble staff and to attract parents, most of whom have already enrolled their children in traditional public schools, where classes started Aug. 14.
Principal David Morgan plans to have Achieve back together and running by next Tuesday in a new location. The school board denied Achieve parents permission to lease last year’s site, the old G. B. Peterson Elementary facility near Fort McPherson, a school that closed in 2004 because of low enrollment.
“From the taxpayers’ point of view, Achieve is turning out higher-performing kids at half the cost, and that school is sitting empty and is being vandalized on a regular basis,” says Glenn A. Delk, an Atlanta attorney who represented Achieve’s parents in contesting the school board decision. School officials have said they have other uses planned for the building.
When Achieve reopens, Morgan expects to have 200 children or more for grades 5-8, even though the new location will be “our fourth building in four years,” he says. “It’s been a team juggling act, but the reason we have been able to keep the overwhelming number of parents is because of the results we have produced year after year. They will go to the ends of the earth to keep this school going.”
Achieve’s predicament is partly self-inflicted. A former board of what was then called KIPP Achieve Academy decided last November to surrender the school’s charter. A new board notified the Atlanta school board that it wished to continue operations, but the APS board voted to close it. Parents sued and won a temporary injunction allowing Achieve to remain open.
Achieve’s struggle comes on the heels of a national study by the National Center for Education Statistics that fuels the debate about charter school performance. According to the data, fourth-graders in traditional public schools in 2003 did slightly better on average in reading and math than those in charter schools.
The center looked at 2003 data from 6,764 traditional public schools and 150 charter schools. After adjusting for family characteristics, such as income, traditional school fourth-graders scored 4.2 points higher in reading and 4.7 higher in math on a 500-point scale, according to the center.
The two sides of the charter school movement read the study differently. U.S. Department of Education officials called a news conference to distance themselves from it.
Jeanne Allen, president of the Center for Education Reform in Washington, said in an interview Friday that the study “flies in the face of everything we actually know about charter school achievement state-to-state.” She continued:
“In every state where we have data, charter schools are in fact beating their traditional school counterparts by several points, sometimes 10 or more … The comparisons that were made in the recent government study are false comparisons. They were apples-to-oranges. They did not have anything to do with whether students are achieving in charter schools. They told a story about how charter school students performed on one test at one snapshot in time.”
The poverty data used to adjust scores were “seriously flawed,” Allen said in an earlier release. “The education establishment — teachers, unions, school boards associations and more —tout these flawed studies in an attempt to discredit new school opportunities for parents.” She urged parents to look at state-level assessments to “get a real picture of student achievement.”
On those, Achieve students have fared well, says Morgan, and deserve the chance to continue. “As long as we are producing results,” he said Friday, “the public will be on our side. I don’t want the public to be on our side if we are not producing results for our students. All eyes are on us and now the real work begins, producing children who are intellectually capable of competing globally.”
At Achieve, he said, “We work hard and stay in school longer and make sure what we are teaching them is what they need to know.”
Pull for them, and for the children and for their determined parents. They are pioneers struggling to survive in a harsh educational and political environment.
• Jim Wooten is associate editorial page editor. His column appears Tuesdays, Fridays and Sundays.
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By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 08:06 AM | Link to this
Good morning all. Charter schools are a desirable half-way step to true freedom, school vouchers, and I would support the concept even if they produced worse average scores. Monopolies are inherently evil and serve nobody’s interests, save those who are paid by the monopoly; monopolies can exist only with the aid and protection of the government. Evil, even with good intentions or even with good results, remains evil. I am amazed that the same people who complain about the breadth of WalMart’s reach are the biggest opponents to any public school funding alternatives.
I don’t hate public schools. I attended public schools through the 12th grade, and my sons attended public schools. Nevertheless, when Boortz rails against “government schools” and uses the term “indoctrination,” he certainly touches a nerve for me. When my genius son was in the second grade, he came home one day and asked me, “Dad, why do people want to kill the spotted owls?” I partially contained my rage at the incompetent teacher for the deception, and told him that I was disappointed with her for not telling the rest of the story. I praised him for asking the question, and then discussed with him how lumberjacks earn their living, so they can take care of their children. I also urged him to tell his classmates the rest of the story.
Had this not been a time in my life when I was starting up my private practice, my sons would have been in private schools the next day. Instead, we devised a “home school” supplement. Every Sunday morning, before church, we had the “10 cent competition,” (named after the reward for a successful guess) to identify either the composer or the country of the composer’s birth – unfortunately Dr. Haas was not on the radio where we lived then. My younger son read “Atlas Shrugged” in the 8th grade, and both of my sons were able to intelligently discuss Kant and Hume and Nietzsche before starting high school, and analyze comparative ethics cases I would bring them from the morning papers. It seems to me that there is much education that is not available in public schools.
By Brian Curtis
August 29, 2006 08:21 AM | Link to this
Of course there’s a lot to learn that’s not taught in public schools… which is why the conservative dream of dismantling the small portion of education all kids DO get always puzzles me.
Do we really need an uneducated underclass that badly? I thought that’s what illegal immigrants were for.
By waz
August 29, 2006 08:21 AM | Link to this
Of course, it’s the union, teachers,school boards,and any one else who has afinancial interest in not having charter schools. Only thirty-two pecent of children care givers are teachers. Lets watch the flood teachers,and union e-mails against charter schools come in.
By Van
August 29, 2006 08:55 AM | Link to this
In Jim’s article, a paragraph stood out -
““From the taxpayers’ point of view, Achieve is turning out higher-performing kids at half the cost, and that school is sitting empty and is being vandalized on a regular basis,” says Glenn A. Delk, an Atlanta attorney who represented Achieve’s parents in contesting the school board decision. School officials have said they have other uses planned for the building.”
“at half the cost”, in a system that is constantly wanting to raise taxes and spend - spend - spend, why is the establishment against this type of charter school?
By Van
August 29, 2006 08:58 AM | Link to this
Brian Curtis,
Why do liberals want to have a generation of dim witted people?
Conservatives want better schools, not an uneducated underclass, thats what we are getting now.
By Retroactive Flashback
August 29, 2006 09:03 AM | Link to this
I googled the Achieve Academy. Their mission statement is interestingly phrased: “Hard Work”.
The phrase, “Hard Work”, has long been a social benediction, like “bless you” when you sneeze, “show me your tatoo”, when you rave, or “jesus loves you” when you vote.
It recently has had the status of a secret handshake, a pre-screening of new acquaintances as a sort of “I’m okay, You’re okay” litmus test: “I just said ‘hard work’ and you didn’t flinch, so we are well-bonded. Have a bud.”
The most aggregious use of ‘hard work’ was when Bush used it to describe our occupation of Iraq. I’ve always relegated that phrase to cleaning our barns or some other such manual labor.
I am not capable of demeaning the sacrifices our army is making with euphemisms. The price of freedom is death, and Bush can do the hard work necessary to plow his lower forty, and do me the service of shutting his fat mouth whenever he feels the urge to describe the war. (with his command of our language and all).
By Monarch Hames
August 29, 2006 09:11 AM | Link to this
Cell phone ban. Nuclear power in peoples back yards. Levees breaking at the right place. Charter shcools. Same oppression stories everyday. Those in charge do not want those in need to get ahead.
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this
Dr. Sowell offers his “random thoughts today.” I share two:
“Some people are so busy being clever that they don’t have time to be intelligent.”
“A public opinion poll back in 1964 asked if America was worth fighting for — and 87 percent of blacks said “yes.” Today, it is doubtful if any segment of the population would give that answer that often.”
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2006/08/29/random_thoughts
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this
Monarch @ 9:11, the man is holding you back. You have nothing to lose but your chains.
By Lola
August 29, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this
@Monarch - I don’t even know which one of your wacky misguided conspiracy theories to address first, so I’ll just suffice it to laugh really hard at all of them.
@Retroactive - congratulations on finding a way to segway from a discussion about a charter school in downtown Atlanta to a Bush-bashing Iraq War diatribe in one sentence. Hate much?
By Lola
August 29, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this
Those in charge do not want those in need to get ahead.
Those in charge have done what is necessary to get ahead, while those in “need” have done nothing to advance themselves. In case you haven’t heard, all people of all races are equal by law in the USA, and are given the same opportunities and freedoms as everyone else. Anyone who doesn’t succeed in this country has nobody to blame but themselves. Get off the blame train and start taking responsibility for your own life and your own decisions. It’s not the responsibility of those “in charge” to advance those “in need”.
By Hadden Knough
August 29, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this
Van - Liberal educational goals don’t stop with an undereducated underclass. They want us ALL dumbed down to a level where we’ll believe whatever nonsense they spout and jump when they tell us to. Their shock and anger that people are actually questioning and rejecting the left-wing agenda is evident when they disparage our intelligence. But, like most things in the liberal world, they are incapable of saying what they really mean. They don’t demean us because they think we lack intelligence, rather they fear us because we see through the lies and deception, and because we are capable of decision making and don’t need them to tell us how to think and run our lives. Educated people - people who can think for themselves - are a threat to the “progressive” world they envision. Ironic isn’t it?
By Retroactive Flashback
August 29, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this
I would defend law’s hysteria and his spotty insertions of padded logic, unpulled strings of truth, and iron-poor Bush plugs to the last drop of HIS blood.
We all support your decision to join our troops in Iraq, law. God speed, and may you survive the hard work ahead. (and take your genius son with you)
We’ll stay here and save the country from facists like you and your genius son.
Keep your a*ss down when the work gets real hard, hero. It’s over for you law. over. Bush is finished. Republicans are finished. And in November, when the terror alerts are raised to new levels for votes, and the American people vote their minds not their hearts, a landslide of epic proportions will sweep across the fascists landscape and wash away the flotsam of unflushed treason that the scoundrels like you take refuge behind.
Sunshine is the best disinfectant, sir, and you are baked!!
Mine eyes can see the glory of the hanging of the screwed, they have plundered our resources at the gain of just a few, but now we have them by the short hairs and we’ll vote in a new crew and truth will march right on!!!!
By Redneck Convert
August 29, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this
I’m a little late this morning on account of my mortar mixer had a flat tire on my way home. Anyway, there’s no work for me today on account of all the illegal Mexicans took the jobs and I ain’t workin’ for no 3 bucks an hour. My buddy Jim Earl says its the Dems fault and I believe him. I know no Republican would hire cheap labor and put people like me out of work.
I say let’s get rid of all public education past the fifth grade, which was more than I could handle anyway. Stop wasting tax money turning out educated idiots. Let the charter schools and the private schools handle anything past the fifth grade. And if you can’t handle the tuition for your kids, then it means God is punishing you and your kids for something you done. The only thing government should handle is enforcing the law and executions.
By the way, I went to the vadare.com web site and that guy sure Thinks Right, almost as good as Wooten. He sure knows how to blast the blacks, the gays, and the libruls. He needs to be president. We could put the pencil-neck libruls and Those People in their place then. I sure hope “time for the truth” is that guy. If it turns out he is, we’ll make him an Honorary Redneck and give him tips on how to hang sheetrock and lay bricks. We might even invite him up to Billy Bob’s for a Pabst Blue Ribbon on us.
By Retroactive Flashback
August 29, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this
Convert: Funny, funny stuff!! Mark Twain would be proud.
By Van
August 29, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this
Hadden Knough,
You post gives new meaning to a tolerant and diverse school system, it is tolerant as long as you agree and is diverse in thought along the same lines.
Step outside the bounds of acceptable adherence to dogma and you will be crushed under the heels of the mighty.
By JoeD
August 29, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this
to Hadden:Conservatives can see through the lies and deceptions, Huh? That explains why GWB got re-elected, doesn’t it? You guys saw right through his lies and deceptions. Did it ever occur to you that the GOP has controlled the state and federal governments for the last 4 and 6 years respectively? Any criticism of the “liberal agenda” is useless and empty. And, by the way, no one does more disparaging of people’s intellects than the GOP and its supporters. Anyone who disagrees with Our Beloved Leader or the GOP party line has their intelligence, patriotism and cojones challenged on a daily basis. IF any party doesn’t want an educated underclass , it’s the GOP.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this
Brainless Curtis is typical of far left lefties. Any challenge to the public sector liberal educational hegemony and the dishonest screeching begins. Its bigotry, barely thinly disguised.
Liberals with their endemic control over teacher training and teachers - and NO ONE ELSE - have dumbed down education to the point kiddies cant read or write at anything like the same age level(s) they could even twenty years ago.
Freeloading illegal immigrants and their refusal/inability to speak English plus racial pandering to other poorly achieving minorities are hugely responsible for this evil travesty. Along with the moronic liberal obsession with multiple choice tests and dumbing down of grades and pass marks. Such multiple choice tests severely hamper the kiddies in their increasingly halting attempts to string grammatical, written sentences together, culminating in pathetic essay, report and business letter writing skills. This undeniably bleeds through to the more adult oriented college level and the business sector where way too many of these wonderfully self absorbed, high self esteem victims cannot function without remedial education.
Only s smug hateful liberal moron would wilfully sacrifice the future education of American kids for the multi-culti interest of illegals, as is occurring now in many border states, urban areas and in Georgia - in fact all across the fruited plain. It doesn’t take an educational theory expert to see that forcing non-English speaking kids to ‘learn’ smirk with English speaking kids instantly dumbs down the whole process.
The vast number of Americans dont give a flying toss about multiculturalism in the classroom. They want their kids formally well educated, and not brainwashed with lefty liberal agendas and the depravity of (the politics of) homosexuality forced down their throats in liberal run classrooms.
100 years or so ago American schools actually educated kids who graduated to a superb level of meaningful college level attainment. Nowadays thanks to selfish leftist classroom control freakery the ephemeral puffery of self esteem and racial pandering is way more important than this long vanished gold standard level of excellence.
If you despise liberals for only one thing - make it for what they have done and are doing to America’s kids!!
By @@
August 29, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this
Mr. Wooten:
I’m a big advocate of charter schools. It’s always been pretty apparent why the local BOE’s make it difficult to establish one. They may not like their own reflection in the mirror of a charter school. Finding qualified teachers could be a problem. The state funded benefits are certainly attractive enough to keep government teachers in government schools.
Are teachers at the charter school eligible for any of those benefits? Can they enroll in the teacher’s union. I don’t know, I’m asking. If not, you could assume that they’re dedicated to their profession rather than their own self-interest.
I’m also in favor of alternative schools. While there are kids who may be determined to cause problems no matter where they attend, there are also those kids who will perform better in a more structured setting set up in such a way to spark their individual interest in something. I’m thinking vocational, expressive art, etc. There are a lot of innovative ways to inspire a child. Unfortunately, I don’t find much innovative thinking in the government schools.
Since you’re topic yesterday was Katrina and New Orleans, I was reminded of an unfortunate story shared by my friends in New Orleans.
As a result of the destruction, schools were scrambling to accomodate students. Limited resources forced the system to incorporate alternative students in with the standard system. They staggered lunches, start and end times, but to no avail. It didn’t work. The alternative students were expelled. Now granted, they were accountable for the consequences of their actions. They had done well in their alternative school prior to Katrina, but now they were left to roam the streets under the worst of circumstances.
The Algiers Charter School Association presented a proposal to the BOE asking that an alternative school be allowed to operate. It was rejected because the officials were intent on finding outside funding to operate alternative schools. They were only taking applications for the traditional public school settings. Now if ever there was a time to apply innovative thinking, that was the time and they failed.
Some people may disagree with me, but I don’t think that any child is disposable and the BOE in Algiers decided those kids were.
Shame on them.
By Hadden Knough
August 29, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this
JoeD, Just out of curiosity, who controlled the state and federal governments prior to the 4 and 6 years respectively?
By Retroactive Flashback
August 29, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this
Tell me that Timefortruth didn’t just say, “Read my lips” in her absorbing, yet strangely spotty comment at this time of the month.
It cost Bush Sr. a second term. That phrase needs to go.
Shame on her and beware the ides of march. :)
By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda
August 29, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this
Charter schools will not solve the problems of southern edumacation.
Hard work? Try getting people who think “learn” is a four-letter word to value education and learning over violence, drugs, alcohol, and whoring.
By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda
August 29, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this
some flatullence from tftt:
…and the depravity of (the politics of) homosexuality forced down their throats in liberal run classrooms.
Tell us more about your schooling in the UK, tftt.
smirk
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this
rednekkks NAMBLA - go stalk your soul mate Karr who is now free to marry you in Boston after the small matter of his child porno charges in Kalifornia have been dealt with!!
By Van
August 29, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this
JoeD,
It seems the other way around, Joe Lieberman agreed with the Dems 95% and was blasted, while conservative folks do not always support the President, Arlen Specter as an example.
I am just glad the democrats are not my sole support, I would not survive.
By Monarch Hames
August 29, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this
jmblaw and Lola - your so smart you should know that that those at top stay there because they keep the others down. Laws are for cover. Laws don’t change years of oppression. Andy was put down because he tells the truth. Veron is a hero to his bosses because he helps divide and conqueor. Charters take from those who need it most and give it to those who can pay for it.
By harold
August 29, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
charter schools are not as successful as one might hope because the parents are such overacheivers.
they have to do their overachievement stuff to get the charter school started. once it’s going, they overachieve elsewhere figuring their groundwork in establishing a charter school will reap the benefits that otherwise attending to their children’s education on a daily basis for 12 years would have.
they think if they work real hard for a couple years to get a charter school, that after that everything will take care of itself.
it won’t.
teh only reason the charter schools dont fail outright is the students are brighter than normal. they can do average even without the involvement of their parents.
if only parents would pay attention to their children, they wouldnt have to come up with these c—kamamie concepts on how to educate their children without their own daily involvement
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
Homosexuality - your sole reason for living and wasting US oxygen rednekkks NAMBLA is just part of the official leftist/liberal brainwashing of kids in the classroom. This is the only way that liberals can get kids to accept homosexuality, by ramming homo propaganda down their throats very young, before their critical factor kicks in.
Explain to us rednekkks NAMBLA why it is that liberals who have been in charge of educational theory and teacher training for decades NOW produce countless kids at age 18 who cannot read and write properly, do algebra, calculus, read/write latin and many other demanding subjects now shamefully discontinued even close to the same level they could 100 years ago!!
You yourself sneer at the kids for being stupid NAMBLA - but if they are poorly taught by poor liberal teachers its hardly surprising!! THis is a national problem too - not just confined to the south!!
100 years ago rednekkks NAMBLA, kiddies were NOT allowed SIX or more attempts to pass the high school graduation exam. They repeated the year. But the NAACP and others have ensured this honourable practice that EQUALLY applied to ALL has been eviscerated.
The most important single factor that’s changed since the golden days of 100 years ago and the incredibly high standards achieved then is liberal teaching unions pushing for effectively unmonitored lifetime tenure dominating public schools!!
By harold
August 29, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
what does marlin brando got to do with it?
By JoeD
August 29, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this
Liebermann was voted out by people who didn’t feel he was representing them the way they wanted him to represent them. That doesn’t mean that Democrats, or liberals, don’t want disagreement. They want someone to represent them as they see fit, which is what the system is all about. And we all know Arlen Specter is persona non grata with most Republicans, and has been for a long time. Hadden, my point was that there is no “liberal” agenda being pushed at this time. The GOP has a lock on what happens these days. Your attack on the “liberal agenda” is just the setting up of a straw man to distract from the problems at hand.
By Rod
August 29, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this
Hey TFTT, I see you’re spouting off your hateful diatribe once again. You’re blaming the lefties and liberals for everything again (because you and your rightous bretheren are all gods and aren’t to blame for anything).
You love to tell others what the truth is (which in your pathetic mind is anything you want it to be, ignoring facts as usual). You curse the lefties for all of the illegal immagrants - the real reason this country is becoming flooded with illegals is because BUSH doesn’t have the balls to do anything about it! The people of this country have been screaming for the past 3-4 years to get something done: not only shore up the boarders but round them up and kick them out! Bush is to busy murdering more and more U.S. soldiers by having them in a war that never should have started (yeah, weapons of mass destruction - the only one is Bush’s mind).
All Bush and his Republican Congress would have to do is enact new rules and this country could rid itself of the problem overnight. With a same party President and Congress, it would take no time. But, again, the castrated President has no balls.
By Van
August 29, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this
JoeD,
When Lieberman go zero support from the local democrapic party, what do you call that? The President did campaign for Specter during his last election.
By five o'clock somewhere
August 29, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this
10:25AM comment by Monarch:
‘those at top stay there because they keep the others down’
What typical idiotic libbie mentality. Those at the top get there from hard work. Those at the bottom stay there because they don’t search out new opportunities..they live day to day, check to check. As someone once said, the successful stay successful because of their habits so as do the unsuccessful staying unsuccessful. Of course, standing around while a hurricane is bearing down waiting for the supreme federal gov’t to rescue you doesn’t help either. Let’s give a big ‘hoorah!’ to libbies and the jacked up left for wanting to sink the ship to level the swimming field for those that can’t swim.
By Rod
August 29, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this
Hey JoeD, you know the idiots on this site that love to bash the liberals do so because they can’t think of doing anything else (except masterbate). They blame everything on the liberals. They don’t have the intelligence to actually figure anything out on their own.
Sort of like in the fifties, if someone didn’t like you they just called you a communist. Same thing - they play the blame game and say everything is the fault of the liberals (poor schools, the war, global warming, their bad marriages, etc). They are the ones in complete power (President/Congress) and keep blaming! With complete power - if they had any brains - they could fix all the problems they claim exist. They’re just idiots who love to spout off and things they don’t know anything about.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this
hey moron Rod
instead of your usual witless diatribe why dont you actually address the FACTUAL, LOGICAL points I made about the appalling systematic dumbing down of education by liberals … but that would require actual reading skills and the ability to inwardly digest on your part - silly me - I know that was very unfair of me!!.
Instead you just hurl more envious Bush hate which as ever is freaking hilarious.
By Hadden Knough
August 29, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this
JodeD -
So, the Democratic party - the liberal party - has no agenda it is pushing for the upcoming elections or for 2008? Thanks for the warning.
Just because the other party is in power doesn’t mean you can’t offer alternatives or work together rather than just opposing everything the other guy says. That is what the system is all about.
By the way, you are right about Liebermann. He was voted out by his party fair and square like it or not.
By Rod
August 29, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this
I see TFTT avoided the issue again. She only talks about what she can throw a spin on. She knows that Bush could stop illegal immigration within 30 days, but she ignores that so she can blame liberals for everything else. Whatever.
All that bashing and she is actually living off the government (I have a friend who works at the AJC and I got her email and did various searches of her through the internet. She’s 50 years old and has been living off of Social Security Disability for the past 7 years - and she wants to bash the liberals?)
By Renee
August 29, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this
Hey Hadden Knough - the point is, the Republicans are in power (absolute) but they aren’t getting anything done!!! They are doing nothing to improve the country. All the supporters can do on these blogs is blame the Democrats for everything. If you’re in power, then get off your a*******es and do something positive for the country!
By Bluer
August 29, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this
Rod - How bright are you to tell the world that you have a friend at the AJC who violated the confidentiality of a contributor by giving you her email address? If you aren’t lying, I’m guessing that your AJC source won’t be your friend much longer. Nah - you gotta be lying.
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this
There is much wisdom in Harold’s 10:28 post; everything he affirms as a negative in charter schools is even truer of public schools.
Retroactive and Rod, don’t you guys ever post anything of substance? “Some people are so busy being clever that they don’t have time to be intelligent.”
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this
Rod @ 10:56, TFTT has been pretty candid on this website about health problems. What does that have to do with your arguments, or lack of same, on charter schools?
By Hadden Knough
August 29, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this
Renee -
I must respectfully disagree. Whatever you might think about the lack of Republican accomplishments, they are not in “absolute power”. Senate votes are always close and the Supreme Court votes liberal more often than not. If the Democrats choose to sit on their hands and relive their past glories instead of making an honest effort to participate in the government, that is their problem. Republicans were the minority party in this country for most of the last 70 years of the 20th century. I don’t recall that they pouted the whole time.
By Christie
August 29, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this
Charter schools are public, state-funded institutions and cannot charge tuition. Therefore, they are available to students of ALL income levels.
By dahreese
August 29, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this
Interesting how Jim Wooten is always putting down public education, especially since he’s never been a classroom teacher nor a school administrator and does not understand “first hand” the problems that public education faces every day - one being, that public education in this country has never been fully or properly funded.
Unfortunately, the average taxpayer buys into the idea that everytime taxes are being raised for public education all taxpayers are being ripped off. Jim Wooten personifies this type.
Although he’s aware of it, Mr. Wooten rarely acknowledges the influence of the “failing homes” and “failing parents” that these “failing schools” have to deal with, but he expects teachers to overcome that and still teach their subjects.
Blame it on the “bad teachers” is the easy way out, and Mr. Wooten takes it.
Our nations leaders, like Mr. Wooten, grumble at the quality of public education, but they aren’t about to dig down into their pockets and pay for what they want (It’s easier to gripe and say, “Look at what we’re already paying.”)because an investment in all of the people rather than some of the people will take money out of the pockets of big corporations and the already wealthy.
If this country has the best military in the world, it’s because it’s funded to be that way. If Mr. Wooten or anyone else wants the best educational system in the world, then funded it so that it can be so.
Until then….
By Monarch Hames
August 29, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this
The state is not run by ALL the income levels. Those that get in will be the higher ones. Only till there is a leveling of field so ALL are equal can schools be for ALL.
By JoeD
August 29, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this
Hadden, I didn’t say that the Democrats had no plan for 2008. I said there is no liberal agenda being pushed through the schools right now. Your straw man attempts to distract us from the discussions that Mr. Wooten has raised here. No amount of cleverness will cover the fact that the “liberal agenda” is not the issue. IF the GOP wants vouchers, or charter schools, or to disband the public education system, they could vote to do it today. it is not the “liberals” fault if it doesn’t get done.
By Markus
August 29, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this
Well, as usual, the usual loon liborat suspects like SpoilTheRod have to inject their non-toxic venom which is just irritating more than anything else. Then another jackass liborat had to flap it’s flatulence about Iraq.
Liberals whine about “hate” speech when conservatives speak out against public education.
Liberals whine that conservatives are “leaving others behind” when choosing to send their kids to private schools or pull them the hell out of public schools.
Liberals whine when a few kids are not keeping up with the rest of the class, the rest of the class must be held back. “Ok, all hundred people drop the rope because participant #101 can’t keep up! Therefore you will all fail equally!”
Liberals whine about those who have “Made It” must have stepped on the backs of others. So tell me loonbat liberals, how the hell does a Perimeter businessman step on a homeless bum downtown? Or a Katrina evacuee freeloading off the government in a nice Stone Mountain hotel (and killing a cop)? Or a meth head in Gwinnett?
Yeah, there we have it. The minute you choose to send your child somewhere other than a public school, you are divisive, racist, a bigot, full of hate, and just stepping on the backs of others. Between that and “progressive” income taxation and liberals not wanting the right of an individual to control his or her own money (instead of the government redistrbution program), I can sure see why conservatives call modern socialist liberals marxists. Typical sickness of liberalism: we’ll control you, and don’t you DARE rise up and so something on your own and leave someone else behind! The party of the jackass knows not what they do, but the Right sure does. Thanks liberal ladies, you can keep your neomarxist fascist policies for your new Cuba.
By Missy Rottweiler
August 29, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this
Conservatives won’t be happy until our school systems are turned into an American equivalent of Nazi Germany’s Hitler Youth with the charter schools reserved for the elite. Communal schools (it takes a village) for all are what is needed instead of special schools for the privileged. End the Bush world wars and make it happen.
By Markus
August 29, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
@dahreese:
“If this country has the best military in the world, it’s because it’s funded to be that way. If Mr. Wooten or anyone else wants the best educational system in the world, then funded it so that it can be so.”
An expected expectation from a liberal: just throw more money at it to fix it. Comparing the military to public education is laughable. Look up the facts: year after year we put more and more money into education and year after year we are getting diminishing returns. I think the NEA, the lovechild of Democrats, needs to be broken up. All those socialist liberals who think government is the answer to everything need to go find their own planet to leech off of.
By Scooter
August 29, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
The government gets its power from individuals who are not bright enough to succeed on their own and look to government to provide happiness, rather ensure the pursuit of happiness. Is it not a direct conflict of interest to have the government educate the children?
By get over yourself
August 29, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this
Markus and his rants again….oh boy. Tell us Markus, what is it exactly that you have against Katrina evacuees?
By Van
August 29, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this
Missy Rottweiler,
Welcome back, it doesn’t take a village, it take a set of parents that care, and that is 99.9% of the married couples raising children.
By Markus
August 29, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this
Ah yes, Ditzy Teacup poodle has to bring in the “nazi” argument. My bad folks, I forgot about one from the horseass left.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this
rod
today is education not illegals - except how they impact education. However you surely have read my posts that are openly contemptuous of the weakness of Bush on ilegals and his pandering refusal to secure the border and begin the mass deportations.
now having addressed your points doubtless you will address mine.
liberals have run education into the ground in this country. they have and still do largely control the teacher training, education theory, exams etc in many states and at federal level within the (national) civil service which is pretty liberal in education circles. its obviously difficult in one post to address all this.
in addition liberals have deliberately dumbed down grades, exams and teaching - to pander to illegals and non-English speakers and minorities. The army exams have been dumbed down to allow more minorities in - the high school exit exam now tests 14 year old maths and 16 year old English. Because of the NAACP and other minorities crying racism because the exams were “too hard” kiddies are now allowed numerous attempts to pass - unlike many years ago when they simply repeated the year. social promotion is a pretty worthless liberal education dogma - as is self esteem.
multiple choice tests have severely degraded the ability of older kiddies to write and make written arguments and write formal letters etc. they are unused to constructing and writing essays etc they way they had to 20/30 years ago - AND to the same standard. so long as they “understand” the issue/question poor spelling/grammar etc is too often tolerated.
clearly liberal educationalists are not the only ones to blame although theirs is by far the largest responsibility. pathetic parents who wont discipline or challenge their kids to improve their school performance also play their collective part. as does liberal popular culture with violent games/movies, the drug culture etc.
my wife graduated a year early in a metro Atlanta HS over 20 years ago.. Nowadays she sees college/univserity kiddies at university doing some of what she did at high school.
100 years or so ago kiddies who graduated local school usually had a superb education … 100 years later with huge economic and technical advances and liberal teacher unions kiddies today are way too often functioning illiterates or poorly educated and the subject range of their academic expertise has been stripped to the bone.
I’m sure you will either deny this or just rant again about Bush… but liberals are intellectually utterly dishonest if they deny this … just look at GA schools and the test scores. Teaching defensively to a test does NOT hone an analytical well rounded mind.
By Markus
August 29, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this
What did I have against Katrina evacuees? Nothing. They mooched off the government beforee, they mooch off the government afterwards. Same tick, different location.
By Hadden Knough
August 29, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this
JoeD - So, the the Democrats are waiting till 2008 to push their liberal agenda through the schools? Hmm, I’d feel better about mine already being out of public schools if they weren’t both being bombarded by the liberal agenda in college. Guess the higher education folks haven’t gotten the word about the “no agenda till we are elected” rule.
By get over yourself
August 29, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this
Markus—Are you sure about that? I mean a large portion of them were homeowners. Most of them had jobs. A lot of them were seniors and children. What about them Markus. You claim that you’re a Christian, but how did you feel when you saw children dehydrating and starving on national TV?
By Retroactive Flashback
August 29, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this
The Liberal Educational Agenda: Teach children that the earth is more than 6K years old, and dinosaur bones are not a trick played by God to test our faith, and dna mutates on a regular basis causing evolution.
The Mission of US troops in Iran: To secure the Iranian pipelines of influence at the bequest of elected Shia in Iraq. We fight for the same ends as the Shia Militia: secure the elected Shia’s liasons with the Iranian agenda of death to Israel, and death to the USA. Ironic? NO! This is bringing democracy and freedom to people who will use it to do as they please, and they please to destroy the USA. If bush had opened even one history book in 2002, he would have known that this would be the result of toppling Saddam Hussein. He’s a fool.
The Mahdi Army (Shia Militia) is the same army we had trapped in that mosque two years ago, but let go. We could have wiped them out, but Bush was too big of a pussycat. Now we’ve the devil to pay. Bush has never made the right call in Iraq, not once. Proof? The sunnis and shia are violating mosque sanctuary every day. They dont care, so why did we?
Not one aspect of the war in Iraq makes a lick o’ sense. Not one.
By Markus
August 29, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this
Ok, oh great Multiple ID one, I’ll answer your question with a question:
Why are all those South Mississippians, Western Alabamans, and non-New Orleans folks perfectly happy living in FEMA trailers not b!tching about what Bush should have done and playing the race card? The last time I looked, the Mississipp gulf coast has more than rednecks. Why are there still Katrina evacuees across the nation with NO JOB LIVING IN HOTELS STILL???
But I’m not going to allow you horseass liberals to spin off on the topic here. It’s about education and you neomarxist liberals squawking about “leaving others behind” if they say to hell with public education. You liberals are all for “choice” except in personal finances, education, healthcare, retirement…
By get over yourself
August 29, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this
Markus—You’re obviously unaware that a lot of the neighborhoods on the east side of New Orleans remained closed. So much for your “why are they still in hotels?” question. But you still didn’t answer my question…How did you feel when you saw children starving and dehydrating on national TV last year?
By Realist
August 29, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this
but how did you feel when you saw children dehydrating and starving on national TV
I thought, couldnt the camera man put down the camera and find that kid some water? I mean…..
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this
@ stop playing with yourself
Markus is making VERY OBVIOUS unassailable points about the large criminal element amongst Katrina refugees - not the majority of ordinary decent folks of all colours who were Katrina victims and DO NOT make other folks victims - explain for example the 25% increase in the Houston murder rate or the abuse of black school kids in TX or the abuse of FEMA funds for hookers and gucci handbags etc all of which is tied directly to black criminal Katrina refugees. Why do you lefty tosspots always ignore the awkward obvious points??!!
By Retroactive Flashback
August 29, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this
When markus types, “Katina victims” he means, “looters”. Never mind that Katrina hit florida first and caused no damage, yet Jeb Bush declared a state of emergency and pilfered the federal emergency disaster fund so the taxpayers were the first victims of Katrina Fraud, then a few days later the citizens of New Orleans were victims of Katrina part duh.
Markus is an idiot, by the way, and I think it’s a shame that his mother didn’t raise him to be a nicer girl.
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this
Missy @ 11:58, you are closer to the truth than you realize. Our children are already undergoing indoctrination, and charter schools and vouchers are the only foreseeable cure. May we count you as on our side?
By Markus
August 29, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this
What did I think about all those poor kids? I thought, “Why didn’t Nagin get those damn school buses rolling prior to the hurricane hitting? Why didn’t Nagin get trains rolling? Why didn’t Nagin and Blanco have an evac plan? Like other states like Florida?” That’s what I thought.
Then after sucking all the visuals in, when reading about crime shooting up 25% in Houston after evacuees were relocated there and the evacuee scum that shot and killed a young Stone Mountain cop father of two, I thought my suspicions on socialism as a failure are spot on. THAT is what I thought.
By Markus
August 29, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this
Jackhole ex-sixties hippy lib Flashback either can’t read or wants to conveniently ignore my comments ABOUT SOUTH MISSISSIPPI AND WEST ALABAMA Pathetic liberal.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this
When markus types, “Katina victims” he means, “looters”.
only some of them were looters rednekks NAMBLA … see how your usual intellectual dishonesty always oozes out when debating your conservative betters!!
I see rednekkks NAMBLA is not yet on a plane to Boulder to support his soul mate before his extradition hearing on child porn charges. Not standing by your man this time rednekkks?
By Liberal Drive-by
August 29, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this
The pennies that Katrina criminals took to buy lapdances don’t compare to the fraud taking place with Iraq contractors. But since it’s big business, con-men look the other way.
By get over yourself
August 29, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this
Markus and Time for the Douche,
HAHA! Not only did I succeed in winding you up, but Markus as well…and all I did was ask an innocent question. SMIRK
No one is denying the criminal element among some of the evacuees. But despite making any rational recommendations for recovery, you’re more worried about the few bad ones. I’ll tell my neighbor’s mother, who moved in with him because her home was destroyed in New Orleans, that she is a criminal and a lowlife. It’s a shame that she never realized that before, despite the fact that she always worked two jobs for her entire life…
You guys should tell us more about life in New Orleans.
By get over yourself
August 29, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this
That’s bullsh#t Markus! Before criticizing Nagin, you probably did a Google search and made sure that there was a “D” instead of an “R” after his name.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this
@ go play with yourself
the only thing you wound up was yourself tosspot!! any opportunity to verbally abuse and laugh at liberal morons is but a sign from the all compassionate Allah!! how fitting that a sad liberal wanker, like yourself, overtly runs away from its sincerely held unhinged views only AFTER being exposed for intellectual dishonesty and imbecility by its conservative betters!!!
By Realist
August 29, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this
It isnt just the criminal element of the Katrina situation who catch some of the blame in how this thing played out. I think what we saw in NO was entire culture and community who practiced self-servitude and lived a lax party lifestyle that bit them in the a*. Poor financial planning, improper or no insurance, and easy going lifestyle that put lviing in the moment ahead of sensible planning for the unforseen. When trouble befalls people such as this, its devastating because they have no foundation in thier life to deal with such emergencies. Hopefully for the smarter ones they have learned a valuabel life lesson after all this. But I doubt it because good old uncle sam came in with a grossly obscene amount of federal money to bail them out. If my take seems harsh, hey, its a harsh world. Plan accordingly.
By get over yourself
August 29, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this
Time for the Douche,
No one is running away. Still here and still debating. You yourself really don’t have any solutions, just complaints. Markus is the worst. He just stays mad all of the time for no reason at all. No need to wind him up, he stays wound up. Kind of goes back to his whole “lack of a sex life”.
You guys are better off staying on this blog and listening to Rush than venturing outside in the big scary world.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this
But Realist ….
these katrina thugs can always repeatedly mug and rob rednekkks NAMBLA/go play with yourself because it wont mind - it’s a loser who loves pandering to minority criminals!! Hell - he wont even report them - that’s how deranged his “white guilt” is!!
huge smirk
By get over yourself
August 29, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this
sad liberal wanker
@Time for the Douche and Markus,
Actually both of you could use a good wank. Why don’t you do each other a favor and blow off some steam?
SMIRK
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this
rednekkks NAMBLA
YOU NASTY LEFTIST LIAR!!
you dont ever debate on here.
you getting a late afternoon plane back to Boulder then?
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!
a major hissy fit by JM Karr’s soul mate!!
too funny … too funny
By Curious Observer
August 29, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this
It ill-serves the public interest to be promoting private schools, charter or otherwise, at the expense of public ones.
We should instead be demanding improvements in the public schools. We can start by getting rid of the “education” departments in the colleges and universities. With their death-grip on educational credentials, they repeatedly turn out the most mediocre of all college graduates to serve as the teachers. Even a Nobel Prize-winning university graduate cannot teach in a state school without submitting to the yoke of “education” courses, a collection of faux-psychology and methodology prescriptions. These courses give the boot not only to classroom imagination but also to other courses that might improve the subject matter expertise of the aspiring teacher.
There was a time when a teacher was respected as the most intelligent member of the community. Sadly, that’s far from true any more. Primary and secondary school teaching now attracts the least academically able within the college ranks. I’ve witnessed the phenomenon first-hand.
A second step to improvement is to start phasing out the mega-campuses that now masquerade as schools and to return to smaller neighborhood schools that invite parental involvement. We don’t need hordes of detached “counselors” in their citadels, flanked by sheep/teachers who are directed every step of the way by members of the all-powerful administration. We need smaller schools, staffed by extraordinarily qualified teachers who care enough to welcome parental involvement. Then and only then would I support higher teacher pay.
We have sold our educational birth-right for a mess of pottage—the lies that college education departments are the best qualified to produce good teachers and that bigger school campuses are good for most students. Until the public discerns the nature of these lies, we are doomed to finishing in the bottom 10 percent in national test scores and to continued wrangling about the need to promote private schools as an alternative.
By Rod
August 29, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this
Just think - if the Billions and Billions of dollars that were spent on the war in Iraq had been spent on improving the education system in the U.S., we’d actually have something positive to show for all that money. Instead, all we have to show are dead soldiers.
If you think prefering smarter children and a better future for the U.S. over a stack of dead soldiers is liberalism, then so be it. I call it responsibility.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this
I see Rod is still gutlessly avoiding actually responding to my thoughtful, logical post on education.
how typical …smirk
By Van
August 29, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this
Folks,
What is the differnce between the NO evacuee’s and the Mississippi gulf coast evacuee’s and the people the evacuated because of Rita?
Everyone BUT the NO evacuee’s are making progress.
Naggin and Blank-o have no plan for the recovery of New Orleans.
The people in the Mississippi delta are worse off, but it is New Orleans that is getting all the FEMA bucks that the state has not released - yet.
By Rod
August 29, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this
Hey TFTT, hardly. I asked you at 10:37 why Bush won’t stop the illegal immigrant problem. With a Republican Congress, all he’d have to do is snap his fingers and the borders would be shut and illegals would cease to flood the country - despite what any liberal politicians might say.
BUT, Bush doesn’t have the balls to do it. Why is that? Why doesn’t your God Bush fix that problem and all of the others that you blame the liberals for? With a Republican Congress he should be able to fix anything you want. Why isn’t he? Yeah, I asked you that along time ago and you ignored it.
Smirk
By the way, do you prefer dead soldiers to a brighter and smarter future for our children?
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this
come on Rod … if you dont accept my points then just hamnmer me factually, and easily show me where I’m wrong.
not being a coward are you - smirk
By Partisans Abound
August 29, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this
Why did the KIPP program rescind its support of Achieve Academy and disallow the use of their brand prior to the Atlanta Board of Education’s decision?
Why does KIPP still support another Atlanta charter but not Achieve Academy?
If the Atlanta Board of Education is hostile to charter schools, why do 7 others exist within the system?
The Atlanta Board of Education has raised taxes exactly once (this year) in the last decade, look it up.
The NCES’ study was flawed for the reasons cited and more.
Charters work, so far on a small scale, with the issue being how to expand their successes while maintaining their high standards. It’s one thing to teach students whose parents push them to excel and succeed and who obviously place a premium on education (hence the reason they looked into an alternative in the first place—they care) and teaching students without these “home-grown” incentives.
Education reform deserves an honest debate. Willful misrepresentaions on either side hinder the process.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this
rod’s cowardice is hilarious - I answered your point about Bush rod - see above - and then made several excellent ones about education - which is actually todya’s topic. I’m still waiting for your answer!!
By Rod
August 29, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this
TFTT, still waiting (music from Jeopardy playing in the background).
By Realist
August 29, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
From what I understand Blanko and Nagin and all the other LA politicians are trying thier best to figure out a way to loot those federal funds but GW, who must be smarter than some think, put in tons of obstacles and red tape to stop them. No wonder Nagin is so angry. Billions right there for the taking and he cant figure out a way to steal any for himself. I love it.
By Rod
August 29, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
TFTT - where did you answer the question about how Bush and a Republican Congress can’t stop the illegals and pass any bill they want? Specifically what time was your post?
You want an education topic? I gave you one at 1:06. I realize you probably failed out of the public school system, so I’ll repeat it for you:
“Just think - if the Billions and Billions of dollars that were spent on the war in Iraq had been spent on improving the education system in the U.S., we’d actually have something positive to show for all that money. Instead, all we have to show are dead soldiers.
If you think prefering smarter children and a better future for the U.S. over a stack of dead soldiers is liberalism, then so be it. I call it responsibility.”
By Realsit
August 29, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this
Why did the KIPP program rescind its support of Achieve Academy and disallow the use of their brand prior to the Atlanta Board of Education’s decision?
Because a young 24 year old black chick named “Kia”, who used to run the KIPP academy, “mishandled” aka STOLE funds from the school and then took off and left it in ruins. Thats why. Google it. It was all over the AJC.
If the crooks are running the programs in Atalnta, why shouldnt KIPP sever thier ties?
By Van
August 29, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
Rod,
Just a quick question.
What about the billions we pump into the educational system now? What have we gotten for that money. We need some solid result if the answer is - typical liberal request - more money.
By Richard
August 29, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this
Hey, I agree with Rod. If the billions of dollars from the Iraq war had gone toward education, this country would be a whole lot better off. Declaring war makes you sound like an important President. But preparing for our future makes you a great one.
By Rod
August 29, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this
Van - you get what you pay for. The billions provided now get the education quality you see now. That’s why I say if we had the additional Iraq money, we would get noticed improvement. Thanks for making my point!
There she goes!!! I see TFTT running away and hiding! There she is, hiding under that coat tail!
By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda
August 29, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this
I leave the board for a couple of hours, yet tftt - The Flatulent Transvestite Terdburglar - imagines me still here, constantly accusing me of membership in an organization for sexual deviants that everyone knows her own father actually founded.
Off the meds again I see, tftt. Take a bike ride out to Lithia Springs, there’s something in the water there that may help you… layoff the chitos and the blood pudding too, you fat fairy fool you.
On your bike ride, stay away from schools and school bus stops, tftt - or no more halfway house for you!
smirk
By Partisans Abound
August 29, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this
I’d like to thank Curious Observer for the thoughtful comments and insights. I believe the analysis of college education metholdogies is spot-on as was the observation about public school size.
I’m not sure how we as a society could deal w/ school size as the “mega” phenomenon is affecting everything from churches to college campuses too. It seems to stem from some kind of warehouse mentality where bigger is always better. Likewise, obtaining physical space for more, smaller schools will be a challenge. Especially in urban areas where space is at a premium, govt’s and localities will be in no hurry to turn over prime real estate for schools instead of developers.
As far as collegiate education majors go, i think the discipline itself is mad, much like the “professional” politician. I would love to see subject matter experts teaching in their field of expertise, period. Professionals teaching not teaching professionals. Perhaps some minimum student teaching requirements with the support of an experienced educator as a wake-up call of what is to come, and then let them have at it. I care not if they know nothing of honoring self-esteem and other such feel good matters.
Teaching to tests produces drones and automatons and if America is to remain competitive globally, then critical-thinking skills must be stressed over simple or complicated regurgitation.
By Redneck Convert
August 29, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this
Well, I’m still out of work, but I see those Mexicans are scrambling all over that work site like an army of ants. They sure do a lot for 3 bucks an hour. I was going to complain about it, but my buddy Jim Earl says it’s just a law called “supplyin’ da man.” Never heard of it, but I’m a law-abidin’ guy, and if it’s the law, I’ll keep quiet. Anyway, Jim Earl says complaining is a lot like union commie-pinko stuff.
I see this TFTT feller is still layin’ it on the libruls, backed mightily by Realist and Markus, but no one can figure out what to do about the schools. There’s a lot of cussin’ and fussin’, but our students are staying about as dumb as ever, going by the story about how our students are now up to 46th in the nation in test scores. People keep bringing up Katrina and Iraq. Let’s get this education thing figured out before we worry about stuff like that.
Well, gotta go to a funeral. John Dale’s son got kilt in Iraq doing his duty, and John Dale is mighty proud of him. Course, he’d be a lot prouder if the kid was still alive.
I know y’all will figure it out by the end of the day. Anyway, now that the contractor feller has hired all those Mexicans, I got nothing else to do, so I’ll keep watching till somebody comes up with the answer.
By Rainey
August 29, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this
Mr. Wooten, There can be no accountability for public education when you realize that the Democrat Party is moving further to the left as the new century unfolds. Because of the future demographics of unionism, the dominant force within the union movement will become the public sector unions.
People need to understand that atop this group are the teacher’s unions, the NEA and the AFT who reside further to the left than most of the other union organizations in this country.
I am horrified at the thought that our children’s education will be held hostage by a group whose personal success can be so easily manipulated by one political party whose policies I strongly disagree with.
I have heard and fully expect the two to merge in the near term making it the largest union in the world. I also anticipate that as part of that merger, the NEA will affiliate with the AFL-CIO, and in due course, will supply the leadership of the Federation. That development will further cement the close political relationship between organized labor and the Democrat Party and their interdependence will inevitably shift the political orientation of both further to the Left.
The Left’s ideaologies is not where I want my children to be educated. Noone in this country should allow such a one-sided agenda to be forced onto their child’s education.
It’s clear to me why government run school boards would set out to put up barriers to alternative choices in education.
I’m worried that this country is headed towards a socialist run government which will hold a monopoly on how they educate my children.
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this
Curious @ 1:05, you articulate a great argument for vouchers and truly free choice in schools, and then reject that solution without comment. Follow your logic.
The surest way to demand improvement in public schools is to introduce market controls, so that the lousy schools will be rejected by the marketplace.
As to the “mega-campuses” some people prefer WalMart for the pricing and selection, and some prefer Ace Hardware for the service and convenience; why should we expect school preference to differ?
Rod @ 1:06 and 1:19, you err; we would not have better school systems, merely more expensive ones. Until you introduce market accountability, where people can vote with their feet, you do no good for the system.
Partisans @ 1:13, will you support allowing parents to vote with their feet? Until then, your veiled speculation about BOE motivations remains meaningless.
By Realist
August 29, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this
Hey redneck convert, that truck you drive takes oil. Putting some in will stop the smoke. Just thought you should know.
By Partisans Abound
August 29, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
*Because a young 24 year old black chick named “Kia”, who used to run the KIPP academy, “mishandled” aka STOLE funds from the school and then took off and left it in ruins. Thats why. Google it. It was all over the AJC.
If the crooks are running the programs in Atalnta, why shouldnt KIPP sever thier ties?*
While I appreciate the answer, the quesiotn was rhetorical, but perhaps that was unclear.
A charter’s budget is connected to tax-payer supported, public school funds. Whether a result of theft, mismanagement, malfeasance, or whatever euphemism one wants to employ, once the Board becomes aware of gross financial irregularities with respect to a charter, it is obligated to take action, just as KIPP did. Slapping together a new Board and saying “all fixed” just won’t wash and it would be irresponsible to renew the charter without concrete proof that things are in order. I attended the meeting where this was decided, and Achieve did not have its house in order. The implied assertion seems to be that KIPP was well within its rights but the Board was not. I can’t reconcile that position.
And though you already know but will probably feign ignorance or assault by the PC police, the “black chick” reference was just in poor taste and unnecessary.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this
rod at 12.10pm
I 100% agree with you about illegals rod - although I think you’re being way too soft on the issue. although congress cannot pass any bill on illegals it wants because of demoncrat refusal to put America first - plus some GOP leftists like McCain and Spectre also oppose what’s really needed. the house is willing - the vile senate is not!
now answer my points @ education - bet you cant/wont!!
By Realist
August 29, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this
You are correct Partisan. I could have left out the black chick comment. I think the name “Kia” pretty much said that already.
My larger point is that public education DOES work in some areas, while it fails miserably in other, especially metro and urban areas. Why could this be? hmmmm
By Curious Observer
August 29, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this
jbmlaw,
Unfortunately, the market approach won’t work in a society that demands universal “free” education. We have mandatory school attendance because society has determined that having an educated citizenry is so important that it must be supported by laws.
What we will have in a “market approach” is an epidemic of get-rich-quick/my-faith-or-none/my-child-deserves-a-better-education-than-yours private school openings and a mass abandonment of some public schools, accompanied by a swamping of others. Many students will necessarily be short-changed.
If, indeed, our society demands universal education, the solution to improvement must be a focus on all public schools, not just a right to abandon one school in favor of another. The market model works well in private enterprise, but it is not applicable to public primary and secondary education.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this
dear oh dear … rednekkks NAMBLA is still robotically denying its dozens of multi-ids/personas on here. I guess it has to behave like this as its own NAMBLA activities are just too vile to ever consciously process … which is why its pretending its not consciously committed to an autumn Boston homosexual marriage to the sickster JM Karr …still liberal denial of the facts is always the way!!
that’s TWO huge hissy fits in a day rednekkks NAMBLA … go on bubbaturd try for three!!
By Van
August 29, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this
Rod,
That is the point, we are paying great sums of money and are geting minimal results. Private schools produce better results for less funding, Charter schools produce better results with less funding, where is the pay off for federal schools?
I wonder if the state could do a better job then the federal funding and with less strings attached to the money?
By Realist
August 29, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this
I think as parents we should all stress things like sports, online poker, shooting pool, and playing craps, so our kids can have something to fall back on if thier education doesnt pan out.
By Rod
August 29, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this
TFTT, explain how the Democrats are stopping the Republicans from addressing the illegals in the Senate.
By the way, you still haven’t answered the question about spending the billions on Iraq instead of school children here at home.
smirk
By Partisans Abound
August 29, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this
Partisans @ 1:13, will you support allowing parents to vote with their feet?
Obviously, parents already vote with their feet, thus the declining enrollment in Atlanta City compared with increasing enrollments in some surrounding counties. Include waiting lists for charters and private schools to that articulation and I think parents are doing a very good job of making themselves heard.
Until then, your veiled speculation about BOE motivations remains meaningless.
There is nothing veiled about my assertion. If KIPP’s decision is correct and fair, then what standard is used to justify that the Board’s is not? But I will allow that while my initial questions were rhetorical, my follow-up was not, perhaps it had not been cleared prior to this jab.
To be clear, I have no interest in becoming a contributor to the hallmark snarkiness of this board, save your venom for someone more worthy.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this
I am seriously thinking of setting up an all white hippity hop music school to teach young disaffected white boyz in the hood how to moronically rap and act like thuggish bling bling gangstas in MTV music videos - emulating the very best of the cop hating sexist/racist drug dealing/using millionaire black rappers. THis is an equal opportunity growth area for whites that desperately need exploiting.
can I get federal funding for this ‘minority arts’ project … anyone know where to apply and how long before I get charter school status?
cheers for any help
By Rod
August 29, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this
So Van, are you advocating shutting down the public schools for private and charter? Talk about the rich getting richer - what are the poor families supposed to do? If they can’t pay to get into a private school, then just let their kids become hoodlums - then they go and rob/kill your family?
You have to have education options for all. Abolishing public schools sounds like an eliteist Republican thought - out of reality with the average American.
By Realist
August 29, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this
Hey ROD, If not for the billions being spent in Iraq, our school children would potentially be looking at suicide bombers walking onto thier playgrounds in the not so distant future. Is that what you want?
MIDDLE FINGER
By Ugotta B. Kidding
August 29, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this
Rod, I just have one question. HOW MUCH MONEY IS ENOUGH FOR EDUCATION? We already spend billions and billions of dollars. Here in Georgia, in addition to all the property tax money spent on education, most counties have the extra one cents splosh tax that goes to the school systems…and a lot of schools still suck. So tell me Rod, just how damn much money does the educational system need to educate our kids? We already spend way more per student than any other country in the world so give me a figure Rod. Another 20 or 30 billion? What would that buy us Rod? Better teachers? We ALL anxiously await your answer.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
Rod —- you’re still gutlessly cowering and NOT answering my thoughtful, logical points on education … which do you agree or disagree with - and why?
answer my points and I’ll continue answering yours!!
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this
rod
which points do you agree or disgaree with?? and why?
liberals have run education into the ground in this country. they have and still do largely control the teacher training, education theory, exams etc in many states and at federal level within the (national) civil service which is pretty liberal in education circles. its obviously difficult in one post to address all this.
in addition liberals have deliberately dumbed down grades, exams and teaching - to pander to illegals and non-English speakers and minorities. The army exams have been dumbed down to allow more minorities in - the high school exit exam now tests 14 year old maths and 16 year old English. Because of the NAACP and other minorities crying racism because the exams were “too hard” kiddies are now allowed numerous attempts to pass - unlike many years ago when they simply repeated the year. social promotion is a pretty worthless liberal education dogma - as is self esteem.
multiple choice tests have severely degraded the ability of older kiddies to write and make written arguments and write formal letters etc. they are unused to constructing and writing essays etc they way they had to 20/30 years ago - AND to the same standard. so long as they “understand” the issue/question poor spelling/grammar etc is too often tolerated.
clearly liberal educationalists are not the only ones to blame although theirs is by far the largest responsibility. pathetic parents who wont discipline or challenge their kids to improve their school performance also play their collective part. as does liberal popular culture with violent games/movies, the drug culture etc.
my wife graduated a year early in a metro Atlanta HS over 20 years ago.. Nowadays she sees college/univserity kiddies at university doing some of what she did at high school.
100 years or so ago kiddies who graduated local school usually had a superb education … 100 years later with huge economic and technical advances and liberal teacher unions kiddies today are way too often functioning illiterates or poorly educated and the subject range of their academic expertise has been stripped to the bone.
I’m sure you will either deny this or just rant again about Bush… but liberals are intellectually utterly dishonest if they deny this … just look at GA schools and the test scores. Teaching defensively to a test does NOT hone an analytical well rounded mind.
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this
Dear Curious @ 2:10, I suppose we hold different perspectives. I cannot fathom why education is the only element in life that would not respond to a market mechanism.
We have mandatory school attendance policies to gratify the egos of the teaching “professionals,” not because there is any meaningful correlation between attendance and education. We do have public funding for education because there is a measurable benefit to society in having a well-educated next generation; where you and I differ is on the most intelligent use of those limited funds. I have no problem allowing per-student funding for even home-schooled kids.
I believe you correctly gauge the potential effect of allowing parents to vote with their feet; without the coercive tools of government, parents would abandon the public education system in a heartbeat. That does not fortify your argument that the parents woouldn’t know what they are doing, but rather undermines it. Who knows better the effect of the school system?
Unfortunately, because you demand a “one-size fits all” school system, you can never be flexible enough to provide the best for each. You can only cater to the minimum standard. Thus, the superiority of vouchers, to allow each parent to select that which is best for his child.
By Missy Rottweiler
August 29, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this
Van, no amount of biological “parental” involvement will make a difference. We must all come to realize that the village is the parent and that educational decisions are too important to be left to one or two individuals simply due to an accident of birth. The future belongs to everyone and should be determined by everyone, including the children. Charter schools are just another way for the fortunate to neglect the many for the benefit of the few.
By Rod
August 29, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this
Realist - what a stupid and uneducated comment. Iraqies are not the ones coming over here attacking us. They were minding their own business when we went over to their playgrounds and killed them. Remember: we attacked a country that wasn’t attacking us and had no weapons of mass destruction. Why let the facts get in the way of your racist hatred, huh?
Ugotta - your comment was just as stupid. Is your answer to not spend anything and let all the kids get dumber (like you)? In 30 years our country will be dead because of all the stupid people. Our children are our future and there is no dollar amount to high for that. Teachers are grossly underpaid, therefore the only people who become teachers (in general) are ill-equiped to do the task. Higher pay would bring in brighter people which would result in smarter kids (surely you’re not to stupid to figure out that one).
You ever heard of the old addage: it takes money to make money? Jerks like you wanting to squeeze the school system out of money is the reason they fail.
Jacka$$.
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this
Dear Partisans @ 2:19, you misjudge my language. I challenged your argument; while I ignore the name-callers, I do not allow a false argument to go unchallenged. By questioning you, in good faith, I allow you to explain my misunderstandings, or alternatively I reveal your shortcomings.
Don’t be offended when I question your arguments; that is the highest respect I pay anyone on this blog.
By Realist
August 29, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this
Yeah, you are right. Iraq wasnt a breeding ground for terrorist and thier camps, and the thought of a suicide bomber here in America is just plain crazy. The next thing you are going to tell me is that planes are going to fly into our buildings….
You are the a* in the group ROD
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this
And Partisans, to elaborate on my challenge about your noncomments on the BOE action, you say nothing - good or bad - about the BOE action, thus contributing nothing. If the decision was correct, say so and why; if the decision was incorrect, say so and why. Just saying, “what about the BOE decision” does not enlighten. We do not favor intrigue.
By Rod
August 29, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this
TFTT - I can’t argue your point when you don’t make one. All you do is blame the liberals for everything. Again, if the sun comes up a minute late - you blame the liberals! You have to get a clue and get real before you can make a real arguement. By this continuous illogical ranting, you invalidate any accurate thoughts you may have (once in a blue moon).
Get off your bias towards blaming liberals for all your failings and you might be able to see clearly. Until then, you’re nothing but a bitter woman b*** about everything that crosses her hate-filled mind. You hate liberals so much, that one can only assume you’re a racist as well.
By Rod
August 29, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this
Realist - the terrorists who flew the planes are as related to Iraq as Timothy McVeigh is to the U.S. (I’ll translate that since you’re to stupid to yourself - that means Iraq didn’t have a damn thing to do with 9/11. That didn’t stop Bush from killing 1000’s of innocents though.
Wake up you pathetic racist bigot.
By Partisans Abound
August 29, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this
My larger point is that public education DOES work in some areas, while it fails miserably in other, especially metro and urban areas. Why could this be? hmmmm
Forgive me if I did not previously see it stated or implied that “public education DOES work in some areas”. With respect to metro and urban areas, I am saddened to admit it, but would assume given today’s cues (“black chick” and using a simple proper name in quotes) that you believe it has something to do with race?
I’ll pass on attempting to interject anything else into the discussion such as poverty and its concomitants (hopelessness, crime, hunger), crumbling infrastructure, population density, eroding tax base, federal funding mandates, etc.
If I am guilty of sensitivity and am ascribing something which is anathema to your character, I preemptively apologize.
And with the 2:24 - Time for the Truth post, I’m vacating this space for today.
Such a shame sometimes, so many fruitful minds, wasting so much time being small, and all for the sake of what? (winning, maybe, though I don’t know what)
Now quickly, someone say (or think) — “well, they started it” so the transition to your 2nd childhoods will be complete.
poop
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this
Dear Missy @ 2:31, the flaw in your argument is your assertion that the committee is the best way to design a horse. (Please advise if you do not know the joke - someone will help you out.) I think education is too important to defer to the judgment of those who know “better” than I.
By Ugotta B. Kidding
August 29, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this
Rod, If you’re a teacher you need to haul your a$$ home and retire. You’re obviously part of the problem and not the solution. I might be “dumb and stupid” Rod but you’re an idiot if you think THE ANSWER is money. The answer to the education problem is not more money Rod, it’s completely overhauling the educational system and getting back to more basics. It’s about holding teachers, principals, and others more accountable for the success or failures of their schools. It’s about seeing that the huge amounts of money already being spent is spent more wisely. It’s about making sure that teachers are competant to teach the classes they are assigned. It’s about putting DISCIPLINE back into the schools so that you can having an environment so that kids CAN learn without all the interruptions. It’s about getting the damn unions OUT of the school systems so that teacher teach instead of being involved in politics. Rod, it’s about TEACHERS THAT WANT TO TEACH and educate the children. And it’s about administrators that actually spend the money wisely, remembering that it comes from hard-working families and NOT the “government” and there’s limits to wants. The needs come first!
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this
rod … YOU’RE MY FAVOURITE SISTAH ON HERE - YOU GO GIRL!!!
but now you’re being ULTRA dishonest …
do you deny any of this true … which of my facts/commentary is not true?
the deleterious effects of multiple choice tests, poor literacy skills, dumbing down for minorities, the indisputable point about vastly higher educational standards 100 years ago, lefty teacher unions?
instead of just GUTLESSLY smearing me as a racist - try and see the logic and and incisive commentary - I know its VERY difficult for you as logical thinking and questioning sacred liberal cows is not allowed in the lefty world!!
By Van
August 29, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this
Missy Rottweiler,
You have got to be kidding. THat is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard.
You are saying that parents are too stupid to raise their own children - I know, lets put them all in camps and raise them without parents, like in the book, “A Brave New world”.
It does not work to institutionalize a whole generation so they all think alike and act alike - Bless me, I am glad my kids are grown and don’t have to face being educated by the likes of you.
By getalife
August 29, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
Conservatives teach kids to lie, cheat, steal, kill and have the nerve to preach Christianity.
These are the role models of our children.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
Missy Rottweiler
are you George Orwell in disguise?
I’m bloody glad love I dont belong to your 1984 like PARTY of HATE!!
no wait …. you’re just yet another unhinged leftist troll!!!
By Van
August 29, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
Rod,
Before the NEA got its spot on the Presidents Cabinet, the Deptment of Education, the states did a very decent job educating the youth of America. The current leaders of industry, both political parties and self made “rich” folks are a product of that education.
Public schools under the control and direction of the State will and have done a better job of education than the federal model.
Since “education” is not in the Constitution, the 10th Amendment takes priority - for those in mid-town here it is
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Basically, Congressional oversite of Education is unconstitutional - at least in my mind, I could be wrong - enlighten me.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this
Conservatives teach kids to lie, cheat, steal, kill
hey maggot brain - any chance of practising the last couple on you?
HUGE SMIRK
By rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda
August 29, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this
The Thinking Right Charter School was formed today in Cobb County, with branches in Gwinnett, Rabun County, and Ty Ty Georgia. This bold educational experiment is lead by Headmistress and leading educational theorist Britain’s own tftt - The Flatulent Transvestite Terdburglar, a British high school graduate. Ugotta B. Kidding, who attended south Georgia public schools until he was 16, will be janitor and headmaster at the Ty Ty facility, a late model doublewide trailer.
The Thinking Right Charter school encourages students from all backgrounds to apply, although the campuses in Cobb and Gwinnett are segregated (students on these campuses must pass a manila folder (their skin hue must be lighter than a manila folder) test), said School Director of Admissions Nathan Bedford Forrest Markanus. “Separate, but equal facilities will be provided for African-Americans and the foreign born of non-European stock”, said Markanus. “However, no student darker than a brown paper bag will be allowed to attend Thinking Right Charter School, except, perhaps, the children of Allan Keyes.”
Iraq War veterans Colonel Beauregard T. Realist and Major J.B.M “Buttmustard” Law will head the prestigous Gwinnett facility. Realist, a Purple Heart recipient and graduate of the prestigous University of Alabama, and Law, who attended Woodrow Wilson law school, have promised a demanding curriculum. “Corporal punishment will be the rule here, rather than the exception”, said Realist. “The type of values we are trying to instill here at Thinking Right require children to be frequently beaten - it is better to hit them too often than not enough, since this will toughen them, and even if we beat the wrong kids, they need to learn that life isn’t fair.”, added Law.
“As right thinking people, we know that fear is a powerful motivator”, said Headmistress tftt from under her bed, where she cringes and contemplates more terrorist attacks. “We can abuse our children over here, or the terrorists will abuse them over there,” she added.
By Ugotta B. Kidding
August 29, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this
OOOoooooooooooh Rooooooood! I’m still waiting for an answer! This will be your homework assignment tonight, a 3 page report outlining WHY we spend SO MUCH MONEY on eduation and get SUCH POOR RESULTS for our money!!! Our children demand an explanation.
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this
Now, Rednecks, you know the government would never allow such powerful competition.
By Brian Curtis
August 29, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this
Van, you really don’t approve of the 14th Amendment, do you?
But like it or not, the “equal treatment” clause of the 14th has consistently been interpreted the same way for many, many years: the federal goverment has the power to make sure that states guarantee and ensure Constitutional rights equally, across the board. And if they’re unwilling or unable, the federal level will do it for them.
By Ugotta B. Kidding
August 29, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this
Rednecks A*******wipe, I enjoyed the part about the Ty Ty school. You must’ve seen it while vacationing down in the lovely city of Ty Ty. You must stop by for a visit.
By Brian Curtis
August 29, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this
By the way, the much decried “teaching to the test” that’s ruining our public education system is—surprise, surprise!—the result of largely demands for more “accountability and results.”
In the typically hamhanded, clumsy manner of far-right fearmongers, they implemented a solution that’s worse than the problem. The demand for more and more testing and “accountability” (find the schools that are in trouble, and punish them!) has lessened the time available to actually TEACH kids, and tied teachers’ hands in providinig customized and flexible instruction that suits their individual classes’ needs.
Thanks a lot, “No Child Left Behind.” Morons.
By Brian Curtis
August 29, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
Ooops, that should be “largely conservative demands.”
By getalife
August 29, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this
“President Clinton’s impeachment nemesis Kenneth Starr is staying busy. The semen-stained lawyer is expected to file a petition asking the U.S. Supreme Court to uphold the suspension of a high school student disciplined for holding a banner across the street from campus reading, ‘BONG HITS 4 JESUS.’”
By Ugotta B. Kidding
August 29, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this
Hey Brian Curtis…welcome to the REAL WORLD Dorothy. “Accountability and results” are what we in the business world face each and every day. If we’re not accountable and produce results, we’re not in business long. Too bad you folks weren’t introduced this proven method years ago. If you had been, the results would be much better in our schools today.
And btw, YOU’RE WELCOME sweetie!
By Brian Curtis
August 29, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this
UBK: Unfortunately, it only works if you implement it correctly and with intelligence. Otherwise you’re just counting the number of blue cars that drive by to see which models are most popular—making the wrong measurements with the wrong assumptions.
Accountability’s fine, but how much work do you get done if you’re writing status reports every fifteen minutes?
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!
yet another GIANT HISSY FIT FROM the registered sex offender rednekkks NAMBLA
and a very timely one too, just before it slithers off to Boulder in search of its wannabe transgendered husband to be JM Karr.
many many thanks for thinking of us all rednekkks NAMBLA … I trust you and the sickster Karr will be very happy together in his perfumed prison cell reminiscing over his disgusting repugnant fantasies over JonBenet!!
By Ugotta B. Kidding
August 29, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this
Brian Curtis, I agree with your statement about the paperwork. It can be ridiculous, even in my business. Unfortunately that’s the only way that some people know how to manage. And in a lot of cases, that’s why they’re managers, because they can’t do the actual work…they can only TELL YOU how to do it.
By jbmlaw
August 29, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this
Dear Brian @ 3:41, you have swerved into the real beauty of vouchers, the measure of accountability. Nothing measures satisfaction with a product so well as the revenue it attracts - or loses.
By Van
August 29, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this
Brian Curtis,
And which Constitutional rights are you refering to? The right to an education - not there.
How about the right to be dumbed down and rendered stupid - not there either
I know, the right for the Union to skim a bunch of money from the federal government to line the pockets of the Union fat cats - I guess that one is there.
By Ugotta B. Kidding
August 29, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this
Well, now that I’ve solved the educational thang, I’m off to help Bush with the Middle East problem. Just don’t look eastward in the next few minutes. The bright light won’t be the sun setting in the East!!! Have a nice day…
By Redneck Convert
August 29, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this
By golly, fellow Redneck, your idea of the Thinking Right Charter School is right on the money. I’ve always felt that there’s nothing wrong with society today that a return to the pre-1860s wouldn’t cure. I like the notion of the manila folder entrance test. It’s as American as apple pie and Chevrolet.
And I like the notion of using war veterans to kick some butt. I’m sure Realist and Law have a lot of military experience. Or is one of them the guy that had the pile-on cyst and couldn’t serve his country because his butt was sore?
By Retroactive Flashback
August 29, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this
Well, convert, I dont know if law’s son is in the military, but from law’s description of him, I’d say he’s overdue for a helmet.
Realist thinks his 5-day pad is an extra strength sanitary napkin, so dont expect no educational advise from him. I wonder if he’s a real blonde?…….ew.
I demand the resignation of Bush effective noon tomorrow.
By Homey the homo
August 29, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
Hi Redneck Convert.
How is your cyst doing sweetheart? Oh, and it’s in such a baaaaad place! If I can help…you know my number munchkin…
By Brian Curtis
August 29, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this
JBM: Since when has “voting with your dollars” been a good principle for a democracy?
You’re overlooking the fact that not everything in our society is supposed to be run like a business, where money is the only measure of value or success. We’re a constitutional republic first, and a capitalist society second—a DISTANT second.
Some things are too important to be left up to the free market, especially when equal opportunity for all citizens (in this case, all schoolchildren) is at stake.
By Vatican Lectures
August 29, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this
Notice how the media is finally calling the “insurgents” what they really are: Shia Militia.
Now the mission of US troops in Iraq is: To secure the democratically elected Shia Majority’s right to align with Iran and conspire to destroy the USA and Israel.
When we have fire fights with the Shia Militia, we are fighting each other to achieve the exact same goal. That can only happen when there is no mission, no geo-polical justification that aligns with our ideology.
An example of this in history is the Crusades. There was no geo-political mission. thus most crusades ended with the crusaders slaughtering Muslims, Christians, and Jews alike. Then after a while, the crusaders themselves would get wiped out to a man.
Our army is in mortal danger. The leadership that got them in this mess cant cope with the military realities on the ground because their still fantasizing about oil revenue, reconstruction contracts, and finding WMDs.
There is no mission to complete. No objective to achieve. There’s only waiting to get clobbered by former allies who were never allies: Shia Militia, the arm of the democratically elected Shia Majority that we provided the elections for.
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
Those who ignore the expiration date on their lunch are doomed to repeat it. (my nod to educational reform)
Markus is a boob.
By Ugotta B. Kidding
August 29, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this
Brian Curtis, You liberals keep hitting yourselves in the head and don’t realize it. How can we expect liberals to use our money wisely when you just made MY argument. It’s all about money. You folks don’t care how much we spend because you’re not held accountable. We taxpayers ARE VERY MUCH concerned about the amount of money spent…We want accountability and results, GOOD results for our children.
By Norris
August 29, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this
Wow, some folks on this blog really don’t get it do they?
Tying a teacher’s hands and preventing them from providing customized and flexible instruction that suits their individual class’s needs?
When was the last time you were in the classroom Brian? Teachers are taught how to teach rote and it seldom goes beyond that. Creative & innovative thought is not something that’s encouraged by the Democrats. They can’t even come up with a plan for national security.
What the Democrats fail to recognize is that coddled individuals will aspire to the lowest possible standards allowed, and they’ve been subsidizing and encouraging that behavior for way too long.
It’s time to change the game plan. Smart folks are getting it and that includes smart black folks.
Vote Michael Steele(R) Maryland. You’ll get nowhere with the Democrats.
By Brian Curtis
August 29, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
UBK: So do we. But too many right-wing nuts seem to be demanding “accountability” by making the schools’ job harder and cutting back on the time, resources, and infrastructure needed to actually GET those results. And time-wasting status reporting—which is what these accountability tests amount to—aren’t getting the job done.
Of course money matters. But providing a quality education to ALL students, regardless of their parents’ wealth or poverty, matters more.
By Brian Curtis
August 29, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this
Norris: You and UBK both seem to be arguing with a caricature you carry in your heads, rather than anything teachers or liberals are actually saying.
I don’t know how to put it any more politely than that.
By harold
August 29, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
The United States House of Representatives just changed the name of “Freedom Fries” in all its restaurants back to “French fries”
The House hates America and wants us to lose this war!
Vote out the incumbents!
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
Kidding … only a complete moron would advocate that more money equates with better teaching and teachers. Its not like a US sports team or a corporate management team or sales team where money is the main inducement and reward for excellence. Its not solely about supply and demand … there are way too many other variables involved. But teachers must be held accountable all year and every year and for normal (not special ed etc) teachers grades and exam results are the biggest yardstick -not the only one - but the biggest.
Teaching is not about money its (an obviously paid) vocation which one is good at or not. Lousy teachers should be fired very quickly - 2-3 months if they dont improve. Not allowed lifetime tenure.
By Norris
August 29, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this
No Brian, you don’t get it. I’ll bet you’re one of those guys who buries his government allotment in a mayonnaise jar in the back yard and sees it as his life’s savings.
It won’t render a substantial return, it won’t improve with age, it’ll look just like it did when you go dig it up to add next month’s government allotment.
By Ugotta B. Kidding
August 29, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this
TFTT, I’m certainly held accountable for my service to my clients, and I have goals that must be reached OR my services will no longer be needed by my employer. Now that they are being held to similar standards, some teachers are reacting in shock. It weeds out the slackers in my business and hopefully it’ll do the same in the education system.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this
kidding - but rod - my fave sistah on here -said earlier that much more money equates with better teaching … I kind of wonder if he would actually qualify for any raise, or even stay in a teaching job given he cannot answer my simple points raised earlier? if he is a teahcer he clearly ha slittle notion of what’s expected and what needs to be done!!
its the same in the UK - getting rid of a bad teacher is very difficult and can take years - which means the selfish grasping teacher unions put their members ahead of the kids!!
By Van
August 29, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this
Brian Curtis,
Please remember that “No Child Left Behind” is a Ted Kennedy program, brought into existance when Bush tried to work across the aisle with the Demo’s.
NCLB has been a big sink hole, and when Bush and the Repub’s in Congress try to curb spending on it, the Demo’s start a cry and whine about it. If it is so bad, then cut it, if it is so good where are the results.
By getalife
August 29, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this
Ug,
Getting the french fries out on time to your clients is nothing to be bragging about.
You should consider trade school.
By JK
August 29, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this
Under the current system of “accountability,” what is the incentive or reward for a teacher to voluntarily take on a position in a challenged, low-testing school or class? Aren’t the children who need more personal attention to catch up to their peers (for a variety of reasons)less likely to get the best teachers now? Their careers are now based on “bottom-line results” which would seem to dis-incent the best from going where they are needed the most. By ignoring the needs of these children early on, we practically guarantee they are no longer in the school system bringing down test scores by the time they’re 16. How is this a good thing? Just curious if any of you know-it-alls can elaborate on that (um, without blaming me or calling me stupid, thanks — my kids test quite well and I didn’t make the current rules.)
By Missy Rottweiler
August 29, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this
Van and Time for the Truth - What is brave new world like about community members working together for the good of all? What is 1984ish about parents seeking counsel from their peers for the best course of action regarding their children. Open your minds and think beyond your own backyard.
By Van
August 29, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this
Missy Rottweiler,
Bacically -
Live Free Think for yourself and Spoil the plans of the tyrants.
Live Free - That means you are free to do as you please within bounds.
Think for yourself - You are allowed to have you own thought, as opposed to the brain dead group thinkers.
Spoil the plans of the tyrants - Work against anything infringing on the first two.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this
Missy the fact that you even asked such a doltish question (again) is more than sufficent proof of the earlier soundness of the responses you are now attempting to impugn.
It also depends on what you define as a “community” or “the community”, this is a much reviled word these days and tends to be used very glibly by those seeking to push a certain agenda or define a group they wish to vilify or support. Community is much abused as a notion, usually by lefty types. Community tends to be defined by the writer of the word, not the reader in such contexts as you used it at least.
I certainly wouldn’t want the likes of you having such a role in my immediate circle and I assume, and dearly hope, such sentiments are suitably reciprocated.
By On the other hand:
August 29, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this
In response to Ugotta Be Kidding @ 2:50 You’re absolutely right. Look at all the monies that was thrown at Katrina and look what it got us. No real bang for our bucks. That’s why I don’t understand why people want to throw their money or some else’s at problems they can’t begin to solve or understand. Retire Rod.
By Van
August 29, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this
time for the truth,
Missy is talking about Sustainable Development. In words for those in mid-town, crowd everyone into high density living. That way they are easier to control and land beyond the boundaries is left to Mother Nature, or Gaia.
By Markus
August 29, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this
Well what have we learned today that we didn’t already know? Quasi-socialist liberals think throwing more money in public education will magically fix everything (yeah man it really worked on poverty and public housing, didn’t it?). Nope, we knew that already.
Liberals think it takes the village idiot… I mean the village idiot liberals think it takes a village to raise your child for the “better of the whole.” To hell with your individualism and right to do something on your OWN you seflish greedy conservative! Nope, we knew that assinine mentality too.
Liberals are all for “accountability” except when it intrudes on criticizing the public education system. Then it becomes totally the parent’s fault, and therefore that’s why it takes a village, idiot. Nope, we knew that one too.
When you pin a liberal’s ears back in an argument, they spin off into another topic like Iraq. Whoops, nope, been there and done that as well.
So, what have we learned today that we didn’t yesterday about loonbat liberals? if you DARE speak out against public education and lay out it’s flaws time after time after TIME after increased funding after increased funding after INCREASED funding, and if you DARE say you are going to find an alternative educational outlet other than a government school, you are a bigot, a homophobe, a racist, a nazi, a fascist (dunno how one can be a fascist since one is getting OUT of neosocialist indoctrination), and last but certainly not least, you are just a selfish greedy Ahole who wants to sacrifice the majority for the will of the minority. I got it already. No mention of course about how public schools sacrifice the more bright students and keep them down to the slower students so as not to “hurt anyone’s itty bitty feewings.”
By Missy Rottweiler
August 29, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this
Van and Time for Time for the Truth - You two are so much alike it’s scary. Same mother? Know your fathers?
By Missy Rottweiler
August 29, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this
Markus - Sorry, I left you out. I’m guessing your mother didn’t know your father either.
By time for the truth
August 29, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this
Van
the cliches are almost painful to behold, and hugely amusing. I reckon its a leftist troll seeing how many responses it gets. But at least its responses are being suitably derided. There are new age types like this out there but usually they dont expose themselves to such systematic logical derision!!
By Markus
August 29, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this
CNN anchorette caught with here skirt down so to speak in the toilet as mic was left one. I wonder what she meant by “…compassionate, compassionate human being… they are hard to find…”
Ah yes, liberalism at it’s finest; right into the toilet.
oops
By Missy Rottweiler
August 29, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this
Now that I think about it Markus, she probably knew Van’s and Time for the Truth’s fathers though.
By Markus
August 29, 2006 05:56 PM | Link to this
Don’t worry about my feewings, little Teacup Chihuaha. A b!tch will always be a b!tch… at least that’s what the breeders say. You should know first hand.
By Markus
August 29, 2006 05:58 PM | Link to this
Hitler & Stalin were possessed by Satan according to a Vatican exorcist. Well, I wonder what Hillary’s and Dean’s excuse is? Maybe they need a visit.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?inarticleid=402602&inpageid=1770&ct=5
By Missy Rottweiler
August 29, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this
Sorry, Markus, can’t say I do. Perhaps if I knew more about your mother, wife, daughters, I could speak to the subject better.
Oh and, Van, to what or perhaps to whom do you expose yourself?
By Markus
August 29, 2006 06:05 PM | Link to this
Sure you do Missyfit Snotweiller. You are one miserable little liberal forum b!tch. Betcha got worms too.
By Vatican Lectures
August 29, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this
Markus should be forgiven. He was misled by his prez, who has our troops fighting for Iranian led Shia, democratically elected, who only live to destroy Israel and the USA.
Markus is rightly upset, and has trouble sleeping. He tried counting sheep, but every time he did that, he ended up having a wet dream. (he’s redstate).
Add that to Markus’s overactive goiter condition and you get the mini-uniblogger that he has become.
Another wasted and crippled mind thanks to Bush. Seems a shame.
By dahreese
August 30, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this
It’s obvious that Markus is the product of a “failing school”.
You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.
By dahreese
August 30, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this
It’s obvious that Markus is the product of a “failing school”.
You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.
By Markus
August 30, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
You stupid liberals can’t even insult worth a damn, let alone make personal decisions without first consulting the beloved federal government. Idiots.