Thinking Right

By Reality Sandwich

August 14, 2006 08:06 AM | Link to this

If innocent Americans were walking through an airport and then were forced to see Jim Wooten being Strip/Cavity searched, then the terrorists win.

By jbmlaw

August 14, 2006 08:11 AM | Link to this

Good morning all. Ann has a series of jokes – about ADD, etc - she uses during the Q&A. After she makes an argument for profiling at airports, like Jim’s, some doofus inevitably says, “Yeah, but what about Oklahoma City (or Atlanta Olympic Park, or similar?)” (Her point – where was the airplane in those evil acts?)

I don’t believe profiling is either evil or unnecessary, and I would not restrict its application to airports. Making 80 year old women remove their shoes at airports is comically unnecessary. Young Asian women are rarely involved in gang activities. I have no problem allowing our police to use their brains; indeed, I would rarely appear in criminal court if they used their brains instead of their “procedures.”

By Reality Sandwich

August 14, 2006 08:17 AM | Link to this

There are 4 million Arab Islamics in the US. Shouldn’t we aughta be makin’ friends now with them? Have you hugged a mullah today?

By Amelia

August 14, 2006 08:19 AM | Link to this

But they don’t want to use their brains jbmlaw. They want to throw a net and hope they reel in a fish. Kind of like fishing with dynamite. Everyone wants to do it the easy way.

By Rod

August 14, 2006 08:19 AM | Link to this

I’ve recently heard a saying that I think is appropriate:

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.

Meaning, as Jim says, screw the PC and take appropriate action. If you were boarding a plane scheduled to go cross-country or international, and there were five 20-30 year-old Muslim men in line in front of you and they were continually looking at each other but not talking and they went right past the checkpoint without serious searching: would you get on the plane or run like hell? I’d at least like them searched!

To not search them is downright stupid. You can have your PC and be dead. I’d rather be considered prejudiced - and alive.

By getalife

August 14, 2006 08:23 AM | Link to this

Racial profiling? Now you have done it Jim. Rednecks is going to have a field say with this one.

Some names stand out against your theory. Timothy McVey, Eric Rudolph and the unabomber. They like blowing up things too.

Talk about scared, you conservatives need to grow a spine.

By Voice of Reason

August 14, 2006 08:27 AM | Link to this

Jim - Are we talking racial profiling just for terrorist on airplanes, or can this “tactic” be used for all crimes? If we choose all crimes, then the demographic you described (slim, handsome, middle-age white guy conservatives) better watchout when kids turnup missing, or ladies disappear during evening bike rides.

By Reality Sandwich

August 14, 2006 08:32 AM | Link to this

That’s just it, Rod. The liberal’s point is that by profiling and sterotyping, we disenfranchise whole blocks of our population and start a Rube Goldberg series of events over the generations that can only lead to strife which puts us all in danger. The Black History in the US, when couple with the Indian History in the US proves this point beyond a shadow of a doubt. (ask custer)

911 proved that terrorism is not obvious. It’s just men stepping on a plane. Suppose those 911 muslims were stopped and searched. I dont think box cutters were a felony then, and they probably would have passed through. What gave control of the airplane to the 911 terrorists was their threat of having a bomb. Anyone can say that without any weapon whatsoever.

It’s much more complicated than just strip searches of towel heads. ANd if we think that we are safe because we allow profiling, then we will be sadly awakened, and profiling will probably make us blind to an actual attack as it happens in an airport because it wont match the profiling scenario we made ourselves feel better with. (hows that for awkward phrasing)

By Donovan Coley

August 14, 2006 08:34 AM | Link to this

Jim is absolutely correct. The Isrealis are absolutely correct. Islam has a bad effect on its followers. It fills one’s head with bad wiring. However, not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim. It is foolish to waste time on being pc and not focusing on the obvious problem.

By Dana

August 14, 2006 08:37 AM | Link to this

As a grandma who is ALWAYS singled out in airports, I have to wonder what the profiling concern is all about. I don’t fit ANY stereotypical terorist profile, but every time I fly I have to take off my shoes, and inevitably, I have to stand there with my arms out waiting for someone to wave their magic metal detector only to discover that, oh my goodness, I’m wearing a bra with metal underwire.

That said, no, all democrats are NOT against profiling. I do, however, think that we have to be careful that just because some people fit the profile a little better than others, that we do not forget that ANYONE can be a terrorist, and hey, guess what, not JUST Muslims! Everyone on a plane will be just as dead if there is a non-muslim terrorist on board as they would be had he/she been muslim.

By jbmlaw

August 14, 2006 08:37 AM | Link to this

And, of course, the true conservative solution is to remove government from the calculus to the greatest extent possible. Privatize the airports, allow the airlines to police their passenger lists by whatever method they deem desirable (of course, we would have to cripple the ACLU there, but there is probably a downside to that somewhere.)

Allow the private market to set the terms for travel. Travel would be more efficient, less intrusive, and safer, all at a lower cost.

By jbmlaw

August 14, 2006 08:38 AM | Link to this

I disagree with Dana, for historic reasons. No non-Muslim plane hijackers since 1980.

By Van

August 14, 2006 08:40 AM | Link to this

Voice of Reason,

Profiling is used all the time in police work.

“The suspect is a middle aged (black, hisppanic, white, asian or native american, take your pick)male, 5 feet 9 inches about 200 pounds.

All profiling does is reduce those that do not fit. 80 year old grannys would not fit the profile of a 5 foot 9 inch male, she would not be picked up as one of the usual suspects.

However, if we start looking for men that look arab or persian and appear a little nervious, that might be someone to screen a little closer.

El Al, the Israeli national air line seems to be doing something right, we might want their folks to train some of our screeners.

And yes, I believe profiling, done by someone with a room temperature IQ and some training might help.

By Dana

August 14, 2006 08:40 AM | Link to this

And what is this with “not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Mulim”? Did I miss something in the definition of terrorist? I agree, the vast majority of them are, but apparently you haven’t been to Ireland lately, have you?

By jbmlaw

August 14, 2006 08:41 AM | Link to this

Getalife @ 8:23 is fundamentally correct about one thing - conservatives need to grow a spine and do what is right here, and ignore the leftists.

By jbmlaw

August 14, 2006 08:42 AM | Link to this

Dana is correct that there are evil people in Ireland, and mostly funded by US Democrats. We ought to prosecute every US donor who funds IRA activities.

By Dana

August 14, 2006 08:44 AM | Link to this

LOL… not that I should care but I’m a long way from being an 80 year old granny. And while you are correct, we haven’t had a non Muslim hijacker on an American flight since the 80’s, I still have some concern about missing a potential threat because we were all looking at the obvious! What better way to get a weapon on board than to distract with someone who fits the profile and bring it on by someone who “looks” like the rest of us? I am NOT against paying attention, nor am I completely against profiling. I don’t give a hoot who gets offended, even if it is me - I am far more concerned with th safety of all. I simply feel there is more to it than simply profiling.

By RaisinBran

August 14, 2006 08:47 AM | Link to this

Let’s face it everyone, it’s time to start profiling anyone who is from anywhere in the Middle East or of Middle Eastern decent.

As someone stated in another editorial in todays paper, it’s not grandma’s and children hijacking planes and blowing them up, it’s radical Muslim extremists.

Who hijacked planes on 9/11 and killed almost 3000 people? Who recently plotted to blow up trans-Atlantic flights leaving Great Britain? Who beheads innocent Americans in Iraq? Who has blown themselve up on London subways? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out does it?

Until George Bush, the TSA and our representatives in the Senate and Congress pull their collective heads out of the sand and start singling out the “CORRECT” people for increased scrutiny, we are going to continue being subject to loss of our freedoms.

The US Government is so obsessed with not wanting to offend “anyone” for fear of bad press and admonishment from groups like the ACLU and people like Jessie Jackson, they have lost sight on their goal to keep America safe from terrorism.

Put your feet down Americans! Tell your elected officials that enough is enough and it’s time to get back on track. If you don’t the time is going to come where you’re going to be flying in your skivvies.

By Voice of Reason

August 14, 2006 08:49 AM | Link to this

Van - *Profiling is used all the time in police work.

“The suspect is a middle aged (black, hisppanic, white, asian or native american, take your pick)male, 5 feet 9 inches about 200 pounds.*

That’s not exactly profiling. That is actually called a suspect description, when a crime has already been comitted and someone knows what the suspect looks like. That’s a lot different than saying if someone’s going to blow up a plane, it’s a middle eastern.

By sct

August 14, 2006 08:49 AM | Link to this

It will be great to finally get the FBI and CIA to infiltrate our churches and mosque’s. Lets uncover and nab all the terrorists.

If your church is part of a terror investgation and no one has done anything wrong you have nothing to fear. If your church is being wire tapped, you have nothing to fear. Right?

Yes lets profile. The domestic terrorists and evil Muslim actions must stop. Its time to start a federal anti-terror operation in all of our houses of worship.

By the way, this tactic could also be used against the very serious problem a certain church has with pedophilia.

By getalife

August 14, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this

What happened to these cowards they call conservatives?

Were you this scared during the cold war?

Why do you happily give away your freedoms so many great American have given their lives for to an administration that can’t be trusted.

Grow a spine cowards!

By jbmlaw

August 14, 2006 08:59 AM | Link to this

Dear Dana, maybe there is a profiling idea you would approve? Today’s WSJ has an item at the bottom of page B-1, a machine that is something like a modern lie detector. Maybe not admissible in a court of law, but perhaps useful to minimize the number and amount of time we detain people?

By getalife

August 14, 2006 09:03 AM | Link to this

Once again, conservatives want to fight terrorism with emotions and not their brain.

Think about it, if you start racial profiling on all Muslims, how do you think they will react?

More terrorism stupid.

By jbmlaw

August 14, 2006 09:05 AM | Link to this

Although I describe myself as a person of faith, I don’t have a serious dispute with SCT’s observation that churches should not be exempt from any police activities. Our gay friends might object to the profiling that would be effective in policing pedophilia in churches. (Such a concern has the Boy Scouts in trouble with the Left already - I suppose that is another gift from the ACLU.)

I beginning to see a pattern to our problems in police work here.

By Dana

August 14, 2006 09:07 AM | Link to this

Well, this is probably going to be pretty heated today! Thanks, Jim, this is a great topic! Perhaps we could attempt to remain civil while we all disagree.

My father was career military. I have, at diferent times in my life been the child of, the sister of, and the wife of a soldier in combat. I am a moderate liberal. I would hate to think that my father gave up as much of himself as he did over the 25+ years that he was active duty, only to see us hand over the rights and priveledges he, and so many, fought for. This isn’t a simple issue. If profiling were really going to make a huge difference, I’d be standing up and yelling for it right now. And I DO think that it has a place, but only to a point. Congress has NO business listening to my calls or monitoring my computer transmissions. I DO have a right to some privacy, and I don’t intend to hand it over without a fight. The BRITS found out about the recent plot, not us. Yes, we trade information. And I admit, since I don’t know how they discovered it I won’t pretend I do. But they sure as heck didn’t get that info wiretapping AMERICAN phones! and now I am the off topic poster of the day.

By jbmlaw

August 14, 2006 09:08 AM | Link to this

Easy, Getalife - less caffeine in your coffee. More profiling means less terrorism; you mean to say the evil people would have to increase their number of efforts to have the same efficacy. They might decide there is a better way. Not sure your argument has any validity.

By Ugotta B. Kidding

August 14, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this

Rod: I heard a line that was very similar, “Not all idiots are leftist…but all leftists ARE idiots!!!”

That’s JUST what I heard. But in getalife’s case there could be a lot of facts behind that. Ya know what I mean???

By Dana

August 14, 2006 09:11 AM | Link to this

jbmlaw - I didn’t say that we shouldn’t profile! I said we shouldn’t rely to heavily on it! I would LOVE to believe that terrorists are all stupid, however, sooner or later they are going to figure out that we can tell the difference between a person of Middle Eastern descent and a Western European.

By Van

August 14, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this

Voice of Reason,

Why split hairs, instead of “profiling” we can place the description of all suspect terrorists!

If I was a jewish male and I witnessed young skin heads defacing my temple, who would I be on the look out for?

If middle eastern looking males killed thousands, who would I be looking for?

Wake up! The Irish are not attacking Israel, the French are not wanting to blow up planes. Germans are not buying 1000 cell phones for very questional purposes regarding the Mackinac Bridge.

Radical Islam is at war with the rest of the world.

By Ugotta B. Kidding

August 14, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

As a law-abiding citizen with an abundance of COMMON SENSE, I detest the PCBS!! Unless you’re a complete idiot, why not do whatever is necessary to stop these terrorists or any other enemies of this country and its people? People in other parts of the world AND criminals and potential terrorists right here in the good ole U.S. have to laugh their A*******ES off at all this PCBS that makes it easier to cover their trails and hide their crimes. Absolutely unbelievable! I know that these PC folks are nonconformists that hate laws and rules. That’s why they are so concerned about their “brothers and sisters” in prisons and are against just about every law that helps law enforcement in this country. Some folks might call them traitors, but NOT ME!!! I’m too nice of a guy!

By Dana

August 14, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this

UGBK; Who are you talking about? Who (so far in here today) is as rabidly PC as you are raving about?

By Ugotta B. Kidding

August 14, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this

Dana: My “raving” was not intentionally aimed at you , UNLESS you fit the “profile” (sorry ‘bout that). YOU KNOW who I’m talking about. Don’t act so naive!

By J Tom

August 14, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this

Mr. Wooten has said what I have said from the beginning: if white, English-speaking, American men are blowing up planes, please profile them even though it includes me. Searches at the airport are legal (as opposed to other intrusions mentioned earlier), so always search the most likely groups, and add in few random individuals just to add an uncertainty factor. That should be doh-forehead-slapping obvious.

Clearly, not all terroists are Muslim (although at the moment most are) and not all Muslims are terrorists, but you get the most bang for the buck playing the statistics.

By Dana

August 14, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this

My point isn’t that no one thinks that way, my point is that I don’t think anyone IN HERE, at least yet, is quite as obtuse as you seem to think. I LIKE being able to hear differing points of view - it’s why I read this blog. Occasionally I even read something intelligent from both sides of the fence. I tend to believe that those of us closer to the fence make more sense, but then, we all think we know it all, don’t we?

By Voice of Reason

August 14, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this

Van - That’s not splitting hairs - unless you are very simple minded. If you were a jewish male and you saw skinheads defacing your temple, hopefully you would get a description of the skinheads who were guilty - not trying to gather ALL skinheads.

But here’s a question for you, but what does a radical islamisct look like?

By Ditto

August 14, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this

Give it a break Dana. Gotta’s whole act here is Rush Limbaugh jr.. Please don’t take that away from him, its all he has.

By getalife

August 14, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

You may want to read up on the enemy to see what we are up against.

The President of Iran was on 60 minutes last night and he has started a blog.

Yes, most Muslims hate us due to the wars but very few are extremists who will carry out an attack here. They are very smart and very dedicated. We have to fight them with our brains not emotions.

The British plot was tipped off by one Muslim to the British authorities. The US pushed for an early arrest when the British wanted to wait to get more info. Then the GOP is using it as a political scare tactic and people are buying once again. They use your emotions to try to get relected after so many failures.

By Bill Clinton

August 14, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this

Ole Ugotta’s gotta go back to work for a while. Before I go I just wanted to say to Dana that I was speaking in general about ALL the PC folks, not necessarily about any person (other than getalife) on the blog that had posted this morning. If it doesn’t pertain to you, then SIMPLY IGNORE IT!!! That’s what I would do!

Ditto: Obviously you must be one of the PC folks that disagree with me. Damn, I hate that! And I thought you liked me! I refer you to my 9:09 pearls of wisdom. If the shoe fits…!!!

By getalife

August 14, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this

Uggota,

The fries are up. Get back to work.

By Ugotta B. Kidding

August 14, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this

I’m going getalife. Have a good day my little leftist buddy!

By getalife

August 14, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

You too.

By Van

August 14, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

Voice of Reason,

Ask the screeners at El Al. They are the experts in looking for radical islamists.

By deegee

August 14, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this

Behavioral profiling is a tool that is now being used in the effort to detect terrorists and other law breakers. While it may not be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel, i.e., searching all people of Middle Eastern, Arab and Pakistani descent, it is a more effective way of detecting people like Richard Reid. Security personnel are trained to spot nervous, evasive behavior such as that exhibited by the infamous terrorist bound for Los Angeles with a bomb. That individual was detained by a border patrol agent working the Canadian border because she observed certain behavioral clues. The Israelis have used behavioral profiling for years to thwart suicide bombers. The use of behavioral profiling at border crossings and airports has led to the detention of drug smugglers, fugitives, etc. Nobody is saying that we don’t want to fight crime and terrorism, we just want to be smart about it.

By time for the truth

August 14, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this

RACIAL PROFILING IS SMART AND COOL!!

It instantly inflames the moronic pandering politically correct lefties and it addresses the REALITY that all terrorists are mohammedams, but not all mohammedans are terrorists. Whilst there are other terrorists in the world, the fact is that they rarely if ever actually attack the USA. Its fanatical mohammedan terrorists, of all colours, that need stomping on.

Dana’s obtuse point about papist fenian terrorists and proddie thugs is now an obtuse one. After the Tony Blurrrr govt’s virtual surrender to fenian demands the irish have all but stopped planting bombs, and only the local protection rackets and drug dealing etc are ongoing in Ulster and parts of Eire.

Obviously searching only mohammedans, of all ages, given the terrorists use of kids and women for anti-Israelis terrorism etc is overwhelmingly the clever thing to do, but occasional searches of other folks, especially liberals, to inflame them whenever possible should be done. Law abiding Republicans have nothing to fear and are invariably happy to co-operate with law enforcement. But others, like hispanic types need to be searched for drugs and weapons (see stats of illegal hispanic criminals for motivation), as do afriKans and caribbeans from certain destinations. And of course bedraggled liberals with funny smelling backpacks should always be targeted for drugs and seditious literature - e.g. the NYT Times, Newsweek, The AJC, The Nation, LA Times etc. Al Quaida defence lawyer materials might well sometimes offer useful terror related intelligence.

Bottom line … targeting America’s enemies is the smart kind of racial profiling to do!!

By Van

August 14, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

Voice of Reason,

Regarding the young skinheads, I would also be on the look out for any near the temple. A watchful eye is not “infringing” on anyone.

Keeping a watchful eye on semitic and persian types is not harming anyone. If this means an extra look at the airport, so what. Given the past 30+ years, they have earned the extra look.

By Realist

August 14, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this

As hard as it is to believe, I feel like playing devils advocate today.

I think the profiling issue, and the leftist way of viewing it, can be likened to the conservatives view of the 2nd amendment right to bear arms and the work of the NRA. Its a “give an inch-take a mile” philosophy. We cant trample on the constitutional right to privacy just as we cant trample on the 2nd amendment right to bear arms. Both sides see any intrusion or blurring of the definition as the first step toward eradication. Neither side trusts the other to use common sense or discretion regarding these issues. And the truth is, both sides have given the other every reason not to trust the other on these issues.

My take is simple. Profiling is a great topic for blogs, and Jim will no doubt have a full on war in here today. But the truth is, its a non-issue. Profiling is already happening everywhere. It happens in every police cruiser on the street in the course of daily duty. It happens at the FBI and NSA in the course of thier duties. It is happening at airports and bus stations and train terminals. Do you know how many plain clothes officers there are in a given airport today, following, listening, watching those they find “suspicious”. They arent following grandma’s I assure you. And what about the air marshalls? Do you think they are looking at the passenger registry and choosing a seat near Jim Smith or one near Saleed Abdul? It happens in every shopping mall or dept. store as store security is everywhere watching, following in person and on camera. And if that isnt enough, you can download for free, google earth, which gives you a close-up satellite image so clear that I can see my childhood home and even make out the old storage shed in the back yard and the cars in the driveway. And its FREE. Imagine what the government has at its disposal, watching, following.

I have no problem with profiling whatsoever. And if you do, you may as well get over it, because it will only get more intense as the next terror plot unfolds, and then the next, and the next, and the next. Its a new way of life folks, like it or not.

By Watta Load

August 14, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

Not all Christians are abortion clinic bombers, but all all abortion clinic bombers are Christian….and usually clean cut white guys…

By Susan

August 14, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this

Now, I realize that the members of this blog lead limited lives and have profiled out anyone who is African American or from the Middle East from their social circles.

If you truly and honestly think profiling is going to help in the fight against terrorism, may I offer you some ocean-front land in Arkansas?

For over thirty years, anyone travelling anywhere who is from the Middle East has been subject to extreme and intrusive searches. Ever since the 70’s, that has routinely been the case. My uncle would tell me stories of knowing that no matter where he was flying, he knew for certain he would be the only one pulled aside to have his luggage and person thoroughly searched.

It happens to everyone who is carrying a passport for a Middle Eastern country. So clearly, it has not worked, and as an earlier poster noted, the guys who flew on 9/11 had box cutters, and no one up until that point in time had ever used one in the commission of a crime.

For the very few who were never caught, 100% of that population has been insulted and unduly detained.

For years any black male has been subjected to what they call, “DWB”, driving while black. You cannot imagine how upsetting it is to be a succesful black male and be pulled over, far more times than any other member of society, because some dumb cop is ‘suspicious’.

I saw a black man almost go to jail on Friday because he disputed a ticket with an officer. He was ticketed for allegedly running a stop sign. He wrote, “I stopped” on the ticket, made the officer mad, got handcuffed, and he had the good sense to ask for a supervisor. He thankfully did not go to jail. A white person can act out during a traffic stop and suffer no consequence whatsoever. You know you’ve done it, I’ve done it and not one of us ever went to jail for having a nasty attitude.

So, does the profiling of black men driving posh cars have any effect on actual crime? Please cite any statistics you have to support such a ridiculous assertion.

And you probably have conveniently ignored this news flash:

**”NBC: Hair-gel terrorists posed no risk last week

An anonymous “senior British official knowledgeable about the [hair-gel bombers]” told NBC that there was no threat to airplanes last week, that the terrorists had been under surveillance for over a year, and that UK government didn’t plan on arresting these guys until they’d surveilled them a while longer, but moved when they did because of US pressure:

In contrast to previous reports, the official suggested an attack was not imminent, saying the suspects had not yet purchased any airline tickets. In fact, some did not even have passports…

The official shed light on other aspects of the case, saying that while the investigation into the bombing plot began “months ago,” some suspects were known to the security services even before the London subway bombings last year.”**

So, enough with the weak jabs at the ACLU and those you consider PC—profiling has been used for over 30 years and it has not worked. You’re going to have to come up with something intelligent, something that is quicker and more agile, to fight terrorism.

Oh, and by the way, how can YOU tell the difference between an Israeli and a Jordanian? An Israeli and a Lebanese? An Israeli and a Syrian? Given a line up of suspects, you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference, would you?

As for me, I look at any member of the IDF and I know they are a terrorist. Every single stinking one of them. But that’s just how I profile.

By time for the truth

August 14, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this

Watta …

and the numbers and frequency of such bombings is happily less than neglible!! If it was a real, ongoing problem as with mohammedan terrorism then the leftsist media would be finger pointing about it all day long!!

So your dumb point is a poor one - as usual!! A red herring from a pinko - if you like!!

By Voice of Reason

August 14, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this

Van - The problem is some people views are too simplistic and just plain wrong. My guess is you are a white male - which means that in your eyes, every race but yours is wrong and suspect.

The truth of the matter is, 98% percent of the TSA personnel barely graduated high school. Most, if not all, couldn’t tell you the difference between an Iranian, Iraqi, Egyptian or Pakistani. Chances are, you can’t either! But in your clouded view of the world, they are brown and look middle eastern so they are suspect. “if it’s brown, it’s down!”

I hardly trust my safety to you or the clowns checking sneakers at the terminal gates.

By Realist

August 14, 2006 10:13 AM | Link to this

Susan, Can you please post a link to that “NBC” article or commentary? Id like to read that. I havent heard that take anywhere else.

Thanks.

By time for the truth

August 14, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

NAZI SUSAN IS BACK!!!!

not quite a classic Rednekkk’s hissy fit - but getting there!

The AJC’s very own Eva Braun … you gotta love it … smirk

AND LOOK LOVE -THE ISRAELIS ARE WINNING!!!!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1070-2311756,00.html

By Susan

August 14, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

[http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14320452/]

By Susan

August 14, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this

(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14320452/)

By Susan

August 14, 2006 10:20 AM | Link to this

Realist, I cannot post a link that links to save my soul. If you would, please, simply cut and paste into a new browser window.

Thank you!

Here are the first few paragraphs:

“By Aram Roston, Lisa Myers, and the NBC News Investigative Unit NBC News Updated: 5:13 p.m. PT Aug 12, 2006 LONDON - NBC News has learned that U.S. and British authorities had a significant disagreement over when to move in on the suspects in the alleged plot to bring down trans-Atlantic airliners bound for the United States.

A senior British official knowledgeable about the case said British police were planning to continue to run surveillance for at least another week to try to obtain more evidence, while American officials pressured them to arrest the suspects sooner. The official spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the case.

In contrast to previous reports, the official suggested an attack was not imminent, saying the suspects had not yet purchased any airline tickets. In fact, some did not even have passports.”

By Susan

August 14, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

TFTT, if one op-ed piece in a newspaper constitutes a victory, then I’ll start plastering the op-ed pages of every American paper with articles proclaiming the victory of Hezbollah!

But battling op-ed pieces is silly and not where the truth lies. I think we will have to see what happens over the next days and weeks to learn if, for one, the cease-fire holds and two, what long-term effect this conflict engenders.

This is a rather weak effort on your part.

Your assignment for today is to try harder.

By time for the truth

August 14, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this

Nazi Susan …

one ‘allegedly’ extra week after several months is hardly that big a deal - you leftist mohammedan Bush haters grasp at pathetic straws to discredit anything you can!!

there are always political pressures and agendas during and after investigation, especially something this big/international. NBC is as anti-Bush as they get. You cannot trust a company that employs the likes of an ultra partisan David Gregory as a supposedly serious news hack as a White House correspondent!!

By Realist

August 14, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this

from same article Susan posted:

“There was unprecedented cooperation and coordination between the U.S., the U.K. and Pakistani officials throughout the case,” said Frances Townsend, Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism, “and we worked together to protect our citizens from harm while ensuring that we gathered as much info as possible to bring the plotters to justice. There was no disagreement between U.S. and U.K. officials.”

Another U.S. official, however, acknowledges there was disagreement over timing. Analysts say that in recent years, American security officials have become edgier than the British in such cases because of missed opportunities leading up to 9/11.

Aside from the timing issue, there was excellent cooperation between the British and the Americans, officials told NBC.

So then,

We have an unknown British “official” making claims that we pushed to move in faster. I dont see the problem here. The faster the better. Dems let Osama slip away and sat on thier hands after the first WTC plot, why should the US sit back and let these guys get wind of the investigation and disappear in the night. Also, it was our coutnry that was targeted, of course we were eager to move in.

And lastly, where are the liberals from last week who were charging that the current admin was asleep at the wheel, and thank God for the British for uncovering this plot? Where are you now that the facts are out and suggest that we were very involved and actually pushed for the arrests?

Oh thats right, you guys dont like facts do you.

By deegee

August 14, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

I am happy that the British terror suspects are in custody but now what? How long will British law allow them to be detained? What sort of evidence does the government have to convict them of anything? My understanding is that the British investigators wanted to wait until one finished his planned dry run before stepping in. Perhaps that would have made it easier for prosecuters to get a conviction. Let’s just hope that if these guys are guilty that the authorities can keep them off the street.

By Joe

August 14, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

We all mentally profile, some people just deny doing it. When I hear of a serial killer I generally think white male. Corporate fraud, again white male. When I think of a terrorist, the picture of an Arab male comes to mind. When I hear home invasion or car jacking, I see the face of a black male. When I get an Amber Alert I think of a 5 foot Hispanic guy in a red Ford 250 truck. It’s just a way of life, but some on here that are so PC they won’t admit to doing it.

By holdingAJC"accountable"

August 14, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

Sound like a case where dispassionate conservatism is needed. Treat with respect, apologize, acknowledge the inconvenience, recognize that the majority who fit the profile aren’t guilty…but search!

Like grandma would say, “The words ‘thank you’ and ‘please’ will take you around the world” (or something like that).

By time for the truth

August 14, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

Nazi Susan …

its not just an op-ed piece love… if you actually bothered to read and inwardly digest the inexorable logic and factual content you will see the blindingly OBVIOUS!! The Israelis have quietly done Hizbollocks a great deal of harm politically and militarily. With not that great a cost to themselves. But Hizbollocks, like other cowardly arab terrorists always do are lying/spinning it their way and the lying/distorting arab media - which will never portray an Israeli victory are feeding the myth!!

In 1967 love Nasser went on Egyptian TV and asserted the Egyptian Air Force was pounding Tel Aviv and destroying the IAF - even while folks in Cairo could hear IAF jets bombing local targets - the “truth” was it (the Egyptian AF) was still smouldering on the tarmac from the first day’s IAF raids!!

keep drinking your (presumably halal) mohammedan kool aid - its hilarious!!

By Dana

August 14, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

Can’t you find a better argument? This is a tired tirade from a pair of bitter, unimaginative individuals. I’d be more descriptive, but since name calling is one of the things that I think detracts from the blog, I will refrain

By beltway sniper

August 14, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

Thanks, Joe. Keep up the good work.

By time for the truth

August 14, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

poor old Dana witlessly makes a completely inaccurate point about fenians/proddies and then gets all upity when its pointed out!!

You’re just the kind of obtuse uninformed blogger I love to niggle with facts!!

By JK

August 14, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

Nine out of ten crimes, torts, misdemeanors, violations, cons, swindles, and lies perpetrated against me, my person, and my property were committed by caucasion, “Christian” males, and more than half were “conservatives”. But yet I still manage to give most of you the benefit of the doubt. (Imagine that!) Am I wrong? Hmmm…. Mr. Wooten has a point. Maybe I should re-think my associations based on race and religion! THANKS JIM for showing me the light!

By Dusty

August 14, 2006 10:51 AM | Link to this

Well, may I picture the maturation of an airline totally free of any profiling, inspections or interest in anyone’s luggage or appearance. Let’s call it the Patrick Henry Airline specializing in LIBERTY flights.

The Liberty crew would be so politically correct that they would be both blind and deaf, with radar controlled flying. Customers would stop only long enough to buy a ticket at the gate, then carry their luggage, laptops, boxes of cell phones, bottles of liquid and anything else right into the plane. There would be no security checks and no air marshalls. The only requirement would be a million dollar life insurance policy signed off to the airline.

What joy in freedom!! No profiling!!! What happy passengers!! Airline helpers would even pass out cigarettes and unlimited alcoholic beverages to enhance the trip.

I am sure that some of you will be investing in this new airline. That’s right. Put your money where you mouth is. And here’s your ticket. Hop on!

By Dana

August 14, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

Why thank you TFTT! I cannot imagine a better compliment from you!

My comment wasn’t at all inaccurate, but you are more than welcome to your opinion. My comment was a bit off point, but then, I HAVE a point. Right now, yes, it seems the terrorists are all Muslim. And yes, I’ll agree that the IRA isn’t so much an issue here. I only wanted to point out that if we all blindly point fingers in one direction we will pay the price when someone who DOESN’T fit the profile kills a thousand or so Americans. But feel free to obscure the issue by finger pointing instead of having an original idea.

By time for the truth

August 14, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

pathetic JK … dealing with mohammedan terrorism is the actual debate here, not your liberal prejudices!! If you’re talking about builders and tradesmen that is sadly the way of the world for all folks of all colours!!

By Watta Load

August 14, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this

Time to shut up,

kiss my a$$…you head up the a$$ limey…

By time for the truth

August 14, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this

The IRA isn’t much of an issue anywhere now love, including in Ulster where they were indeed a murderous carbuncle - your facts are several years behind the times. THat’s the point!! Next time try actually using a relevant analogy or ‘foil’!!

many thanks for calling me “tired, bitter and unimaginative” - that was very funny!!

By time for the truth

August 14, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

WATTA BIGOT!!

WATTALOADOFLEFTISTBOLLOCKS cant actually debate so it just posts biogted racial abuse!!!

well done bubbaturd!!

By Let's All Get Naked

August 14, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

I’m an American conservative so I’ll make the sacrifice for the safety of all passengers. Strip search me at the airport. It’ll be a fair & balanced approach. Nobody could scream racial profiling.

It would be a minor inconvenience, but something that fellow flyers may not want to witness because I’ve been off my diet of late.

Warning! Warning! Warning!

By JK

August 14, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

Builders and tradesmen? Hahaha! NEVER! Only a moron pays before getting three estimates and having the finished work inspected. No Troof, it wasn’t my “liberal prejudices” that led me down the path to violation; it was trusting people like Van, Realist, and Ugotta. (BTW, I was never dim-witted enough to trust the likes of you.)

By Watta Load

August 14, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

Limey’s not a race dumba$$…

By Stewart

August 14, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

Dana,

The BRITS found out about the recent plot, not us. Yes, we trade information. And I admit, since I don’t know how they discovered it I won’t pretend I do. But they sure as heck didn’t get that info wiretapping AMERICAN phones! and now I am the off topic poster of the day.

Dana, you have been severely misinformed. Yes the Brits took down these guys and acted as the lead in their arrests. However, the NSA was very much involved and they were the ones that tipped off the Brits.

By Rod

August 14, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this

Dana, your point about not focusing in on the Muslims is weak. True, we need to consider all people as potential terrorists, but the focus must currently be on the Muslims.

Look at it this way. You’re in a room full of violent criminals. However, one in particular is currently bashing in your head. Where is your primary concern? The others are all potential threats, but your focus should be on the one beating you up for now. Later, you can further expand your focus (if you survive).

By Mmmmm

August 14, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this

I’ll volunteer for the strip search! Especially if they use the rubber gloves to check all my open cavities!!

By time for the truth

August 14, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

WATTA BIG0T … it has racial overtones turdface in that its deliberately singling out an ethnic type in a perjorative way.

if I called you a snivelling maggot brained moron that would simply be a fact based description - but if I called you a yankee/ american snivelling maggot brained moron then it would still be fact based but have a racial dimension.

By Rod

August 14, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

Susan - please explain exactly how you saw that black man write “I stopped” on the ticket. Obviously, you’re just lying through your a$$ to get some attention.

By Dana

August 14, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this

Stewart, as I understand it, a MUSLIM tipped off the BRITS with the plot. And I never said we (the NSA or any other American Intelligence Group) weren’t involved! Nor am I implying they don’t know what they are doing!

Rod, OK - you have a point. However, if I concentrate only on the one currently attacking me and the other stabs me to death, am I any less dead? Your analogy doesn’t work here.

And I remind you all, I agreed up front that profiling is necessary, I simply don’t think that is the only needed measure!

By time for the truth

August 14, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

moron JK … it seems you are just a bitter haggish woman who is nastily lashing out at men - men you have never met, or are you actually an ex of one of the chaps on here?!

I’m glad you dont trust me at all - I hate it when smug liberals do that - I MAKE IT A MATTER OF PRIDE TO ALWAYS LET THEM DOWN!!

By Andy Just Once

August 14, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this

By getalife August 14, 2006 09:43 AM You may want to read up on the enemy to see what we are up against. The President of Iran was on 60 minutes last night and he has started a blog. Yes, most Muslims hate us due to the wars but

You talking about the “wars” we started after they took our Iranian embassy hostage?

Or after they took out the World Trade Center?

How ridiculous.

As for the topic of Today, I’d being willing to bet that if you “racially profiled” getalife you would find that he’s a Muslim male.

Either that or he’s insane.

By JK

August 14, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

Hahaha! Sure, Dude. Whatever you say. No love for the “bitter” broad, huh? HAHA! You don’t think bleeding-heart, Clinton-loving, compassionate chicks get good lovin’ on the weekends? You go stand in line at the airport; I’ve got better things to do. HAHAHA! Too funny.

By Amelia

August 14, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this

By Rod

August 14, 2006 08:19 AM

If you were boarding a plane scheduled to go cross-country or international, and there were five 20-30 year-old Muslim men in line in front of you and they were continually looking at each other but not talking and they went right past the checkpoint without serious searching: would you get on the plane or run like hell? I’d at least like them searched!

Uh, Rod. What kind of Muslim detector does one rely on for this?

By getalife

August 14, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this

Ah, the wingnut moonbat Andy makes an appearence. This troll has been wrong on every post he has ever posted.

I was talking about Iraq and Lebanon.

Still have those voices in your head screaming, “the libs are the enemy”? And you call me insane?

By Stewart

August 14, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

Dana, I also heard that a Muslim was also involved in tipping them off as well. I was more referencing your comment regarding the tapping of phone lines. My understanding is that they are only looking at calls that originate overseas from suspected terrorists as well as creating a database that monitors who is calling who. Previously I would have issues with this practice, but today it makes total sense.

By Susan

August 14, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

“By Rod

August 14, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

Susan - please explain exactly how you saw that black man write “I stopped” on the ticket. Obviously, you’re just lying through your a$$ to get some attention.”

I was on a ride along in Zone 2 with an officer who was called to the scene to possibly transport someone to jail. Shortly after we arrived, the supervisor arrived as well and after discussion, the man had his cuffs removed and went on with his day. We saw the ticket when we got there.

You are welcome to call the officer I was with on Tuesday. Today is his day off. Do you want to call him to confirm the incident? I have his cell phone number.

By Realist (Man of Science)

August 14, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

Joe, When I get an Amber Alert I think of a 5 foot Hispanic guy in a red Ford 250 truck

I think of caucasian male with mustache here also! Anbody else?

By Markus

August 14, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

Well, it’s not too difficult to see where the jacka… I mean the liberals stand on profiling and terrorism.

Liberals say we can’t profile people of Arabic descent because we might offend them or inconvenience them. Well that’s just tuff tiddie. Cry me a Nile, limpnoodled liberals. We are at WAR with radical islamofascism. We are not at WAR with white male child molesters. We are not at WAR with anti-government extremists. We are not at WAR with the Arian/neonazi movement. We are not at WAR with little old ladies and white male businessmen who get searched to make it appear we are NOT racially profiling Arabs (“token” whites, if you will). We are not at WAR with inner city hip-hop thugs who carjack people. You spaghetti-spined liberals need to get over your “terrorism is a crime, not a war” inferiority complex. That said, recent indications are that al Qaeda has already begun to counter international Arab profiling and is starting to recruit Asians (Phillipinos), Africans (Somalis), and even Eastern-Europe Anglos (Chechnyans). However, they are few and far between compared to the Arab masses in al Qaeda.

All I hear from liberals besides “what about the McVeighs” is we need to be “smarter” in our approach to terrorism. Well no st. Talking about being “smarter” is one thing. Actually coming up with a WAY to be “smarter” is something else. Hey liberals, instead of blowing feel-good let’s-not-insult-anyone smoke up our @sses why don’t you clowns give us some *S-P-E-C-I-F-I-C examples of how we need to be “smarter.” Oh wait I know I know, the *government needs to be more involved! It’s not like the democrats didn’t already bring on the TSA no thanks to Tom Daschle’s most BRILLIANT plan of “you can’t professionalize until you federalize.” So now we have ex-burger flippers who are now “professional” government union employees in charge of airport security. A big raspberry goes to Bush for being nice to the jacka.. I mean the democratic party post-9/11 and “reaching across the isle” and allowing them a hand in matters and approving it without question.

The bottom line is to hell with liberalism and their “offend no group” horsecrap. This is a time of WAR. But hey, we Atlantans sure doesn’t have to worry about security at airports. We have Atlanta airport cops who like to racially profile rich white ladies in SUVs and body slam them at curbside pick-up/drop-off. Hey, leave it to Atlanta to give THAT zone a new meaning. I feel so much safer…

By Realist

August 14, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

Well, obviously Susans 8 hour ride-a-long qualifies her to hypothesize that ALL black men are detained and mistreated while white men get off without such treatment. I mean after that much vast experience, she must be qualified to come to such a conclusion.

Typical liberal hogwash Susan.

And btw, I dont think that officer (or his supervisors) would be pleased to know that a ride-a-long civilian was blabbing about on an ajc blog regarding the events she witnessed.

By getalife

August 14, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

Stewert,

but today it makes total sense.

It has always made sense within the law and proper oversight.

Hell, Cheney called American voters terrorists and as far as we know, they are being treated like terrorists. They could be arrested without being charged or talk to a lawyer. They could be tortured or sent overseas to be tortured. They could listen to all communications and bank records. They could have all their names listed as terrorists and published on TV.

By Van

August 14, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

Voice of Reason,

You maybe right, I might have a problem telling an Israeli from a Jordanian from a Persian. That is why we need better trained screeners, not the people looking at the xray machines, personnel screeners.

We need people trained to look at people, like El Al does.

By Susan

August 14, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this

Realist, I’m not concerned about it. It’s the truth, it’s what happened.

As far as profiling black males, the DWB comment I made earlier, that is based on working for a black boss for over 4 years.

I am relating his experience and the experience of his friends and family members. So it was not based solely on an 8 hour ride along.

Why should we not talk about things that actually happen? I had a good talk with the officer poised to arrest and think he is a good guy, I am extremely impressed by the officer whom I rode along with, and thirdly, I think the supervisor did a great job in handling the situation. And the man who left with a ticket in lieu of going to jail, I know he feels better.

Look, when you sign the waiver to ride along, you do not agree to never discuss or dissemintate any information about what happened.

Freedom of speech has not yet been quelled, Realist, no matter how much you would like for that to be so.

I’ve got more pressing concerns. My final comment for the day: Jim Wooten may contact me via email for any follow up regarding the source of my experience or information.

Rod, if you can convince Jim Wooten to contact me to verify, go right ahead. I would really prefer a more stable, professional person tie up the officer’s time. I cannot trust you to act in an appropriate manner, given your language and general tone. The officer has more important things to do, but again, if Jim Wooten would like to contact me, he knows my email address.

By Stewart

August 14, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

Getalife,

I am not here to defend Dick Cheyney. Even I was offended and disappointed, but with that said he is not the first politician to use hyperbole and fear tactics. I remember back in the day when I was a Democratic supporter that we would go door to door to the elderly telling them that the Republicans were trying to take their medical benefits away from them. I agree it should be within the law. But my premise is that the current law does not go far enough.

By Realist

August 14, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

Nobody really cares enough to follow up on your story Susan. You really arent that important. Its only an ajc blog, remember? Nothing written here has any meaningful impact. Now you can go about your day with less burden.

By getalife

August 14, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this

Well Stewart,

You should be outraged that the Vice President of this great country spews garbage like that. He is terrorizing the voting Americans.

We should be demanding his immediate resignation and not let him get away with the bs.

By Dusty

August 14, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

I can’t help but wonder. Susan was riding in a police vehicle that was to transport someone to jail? In what capacity? Is she security? Reporter? Ambulance-chasing lawyer types? ACLU? Prisoner? Girl friend?

Sorry, but I never heard of anyone JUST riding in a police car unless they were on the back seat behind the security screen.

Now she is reporting even what she read on the arrest ticket. Makes you wonder what kind of regulations police departments have.