Thinking Right

By candide

July 25, 2006 08:23 AM | Link to this

As long as Syria had troops in Lebanon that prevented attacks on Israel and the Lebanese penchant for civil war. Bush erred in forcing Syria out of Lebanon. Lebanon has returned to its normal state of chaos, the Israelis bringing their particularly deadly contribution as well.

The whole crisis is Bush’s fault. Having failed in Iraq he has sought to widen the conflict through Israel, his lap dog. But perhaps the US is Israel’s lap dog! Previous presidents have maintained a balance between pro-Israel and pro-Arab policies, but Bush’s one-sided policies have made the American role irrelevant and impossible.

By rednecks - America's Al Qaeda

July 25, 2006 08:27 AM | Link to this

Greetings and good afternoon, decent folks and filthy rednecks, from London UK near Bloomsbury Square and the British National Museum, rednecks – America’s Al Qaeda here again. I can tell how much you have missed me.

My life of leisure and culture continues the last few days – sorry I can’t get on every day, since there is so much interesting to do here, so unlike Smyrna, Alpharetta, Norcross, Tucker, College Park (is there a beauty school there? Why do they call it College Park?), Stone Mountain and all the other hills and molehills you trashy types call home.

A play at the National Theatre last night – Bertold Brecht’s Galileo, a story about a scientist almost ruined by fundamentalist moronic religiosity – about how the world isn’t flat, which many of you rednecks still might not yet know… dinner after the theatre, today museums of art and history and antiquities, etc. etc. etc. I hear you have a Cyclorama there – how nice!

Anyhow – ciao until later, perhaps noonish your time, when Ugotta, TFTT (Time For The Toilet), and her many other avatars have awoke from their meth haze and joined us for more of her drivel.

Oh, to the topic, today a picture in The London Telegraph of a 12 year-old Lebanese boy sitting on his mother’s lap with his face almost burned off… you bloodthirsty warmongering rednecks would love it.

But pictures like that might embolden Israel’s enemies, I would think. My bet is that this woman will make sure that her children and her children’s children and her children’s children’s children would see it and know who was responsible.

The terror, destruction and sheer mayhem of the deaths of hundreds of innocents, 40% of them children. That’s what many will remember about this latest “peacekeeping” and “anti-terrorist” venture…

By Play that funky music whiteboy

July 25, 2006 08:45 AM | Link to this

Jim, the essay today is insightful to a casual observer - however, there is no mention as to why the US cannot take the lead in this. Historically, we have made many missteps in that region, especially with respect to Iran. If all out war is our aim, and admittedly it could be, then the US should get as involved as it possibly can - you know the fastest way for the Iranians or Syrians to oppose any type of arrangement is for the US to be in the front of it. You are correct about the “street sentiment”, but I believe like Thom Friedman - if the country has a viable middle class and economic opportunity to participate in the global economy, they won’t be so ready to jump in and start shooting. If economic injustice, self inflicted mind you, weren’t so prevalent in that part of the world, there wouldn’t be as many fanatics to swell the ranks of Hezbollah, Al Qaeda and Hamas. What worries me the most about this entire situation is that our current administration has shown a complete inability to think in more than a single dimension (economic policy, foreign policy, domestic policy) and they don’t seem to take counsel or advice very well, which I believe will be highly valuable in the days ahead. I’ve been a critic of this administration - but I must admit I want them to get this right, for the sake of a lot of innocent Jews and Arabs. I just don’t think they will.

By Van

July 25, 2006 08:46 AM | Link to this

As long as Syria and Iran have troops in Lebanon supporting the terrorist arm of Hezbollah, Israel will for ever be at the mercy of killers.

The policies of the UN to have a sustainable cease fire is idiotic. This leaves Israel waiting until Syria or Iran decides it is time to kill more Israeli’s.

While some of the world is in a war against terror, the Unite States, Great Britian and now India. Some are hiding their heads in the sand, like Spain and France.

Sometimes war is the answer.

By Van

July 25, 2006 08:47 AM | Link to this

As long as Syria and Iran have troops in Lebanon supporting the terrorist arm of Hezbollah, Israel will for ever be at the mercy of killers.

The policies of the UN to have a sustainable cease fire is idiotic. This leaves Israel waiting until Syria or Iran decides it is time to kill more Israeli’s.

While some of the world is in a war against terror, the Unite States, Great Britian and now India. Some are hiding their heads in the sand, like Spain and France.

Sometimes war is the answer.

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 08:52 AM | Link to this

The Israelis must win this, and it looks like they are pretty much doing so in most of the areas they need to. The delivery of US bunker busters will make destroying Iranian financed Hezbollah bunkers even easier.

THis is actually WW3 - not just this fairly modest battle, but the wider, ongoing global conflict against mohammedan fascists. The cowardly appeasing Euros mostly wont accept responsibility for their part, just as they appeased Hitler and the USSR for years before the military and political crunch came. EU/mohammedan anti-semitism is rampant in countries like France - indeed a fairly recent official report blamed mohammedans for the huge rise in attacks on jewish targets in France so the EU buried the report and refused to accepot its findings.

The EU literally no longer allows the use of terms like mohammedan terrorism, even though this is a simple, self evident observation which is not targeting all mohammedans. But its anti-Israeli sentiment that’s replacing the uglier Goebbels like propaganda against Jews. This is more palatable for the EU Quislings. Its an age old problem that is little more than a modern revamping of the vile blood libel and progrom mentality that beset Europe for centuries.

The EU still wont call “officially” Hezbollah a terrorist .org. It took them almost a decade to deem Hamas a terrorist .org and EU arabists like the snail munching French and cowardly chocaholic Belgians blatantly and systematically pandered to corrupt terrorist thugs like Arafat.

The clearly not fair and balanced BBC has for at least two shameful decades been the leading EU Israel baiter, although its shrill pro-PLO coverage has reluctantly been somewhat toned as it cant be seen overtly defending Hamas with licence payer funds.

Its the leftist medis that is Israel’s biggest enemy, because they can/will gleefully undermine the campaign in Lebanon. That is already occuring on CNN, NBC and the BBC. Strangely the usually treasonous, anti-American NYT is at least for now sullen and silent on the Israeli dimension, not wishing to alienate its huge slimy Woody Allen/Streisand base. So unsurprisingly for the NYT money is the core concern, not upholding what is right and strategically crucial.

At least it will be hilarious watching the likes of Susan goosestep all over the Israelis again on here. Shrouding their anti-semitism in mock concern rather than directly blame the Iranians and Syrians for the innocent Hezbollah victims in Lebanon who the IDF/IAF inadvertently target because of Hezbollah’s despicable tactic of hiding behind/amongst civilians and forcing fleeing refugees back south of the Litani River. So the Hezbollah terrorists can hide amnogst them and generate anti-Israeli coverage at the inevitable pictures of civilian casualties.

I still have my old Israeli t-shirt from my last visit … a picture of an Israeli F-16 with its Magen David flag and the timeless slogan VISIT ISRAEL … BEFORE ISRAEL VISITS YOU

Right now the Israelis are already two nil up, have missed a penalty and its approaching half time.

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this

At some point this demented Yankee neanderthal will finally have to admit its “no longer” in Yahoo UK land and “return” to the USA.

“I can tell how much you have missed me”

Even less than a possum misses its rabies virus!!

What is amusing about its latest drivel is that it cannot even READ its UK web sites properly. NOWHERE is the British Museum ever called the “British National Museum” its simply called the British Museum.

England has no such “national” institution.

You’d think as it is supposedly standing outside the entrance a lot these days, presumably begging for food money that simple fact would have been assimilated.

By abandoned by both wings!

July 25, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this

Do you suppose, by any stretch, that the Islamic terrorists are ramping up the violence in an attempt to influence our mid-term elections? Perhaps I’m just cynical, but the timing for such a goal couldn’t be better.

By Humbled by Courage

July 25, 2006 09:24 AM | Link to this

Right now the situation in Lebanon is terrifying to the liberals. They continually want to ignore the inevitable threat and hatred the Jihadists have for our country. Their hatred was not provoked, it just is.

At present, the best thing that has come out of this conflict is that people have begun to recognize the willful impotence of the U.N. Unless I’ve missed it, Kofi Annan has yet to acknowledge the U.N.’s complicity in this conflict. Resolution 1559 is nothing more than wasted toilet paper unless it is used to clean something up. They believe in an idealistic world that will never exist because of its’ inhabitants.

I think it was Israel’s Ambassador to the U.N. that spoke the other night. He said that this was a world war and Israel is fighting it on behalf of the world. That was a very humbling statement for me. How can anyone not support their efforts?

I think Barbara commented the other day on the photo of children signing bombs. Try to imagine being a small child whose life has been lived under constant threat and fear. They don’t understand. They want an outlet for their frustrations. Some control over their predicament. They behave like a child. They control your experience through art. Therapists use the technique with children all the time. Shame on those here who begrudged those children their emotional outlet.

By Play that funky music whiteboy

July 25, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this

Abandoned by both wings - not a chance on this one. I don’t think they are sophisticated enough, if they want to influence something in “country” they hit that country directly (Spain, Bali in Indonesia, the Iraqi run-ups during the election and constitution, etc.) TFTT - Your duality is quite amusing when it comes to those of the jewish persuasion. I guess in your mind, if they are here in America they are slimeballs, but if they are in Israel or other parts of the world (Europe) they are somehow much different? That is a question by the way for you to expound. I don’t disagree with too much of what you say, just thought that was interesting.

By holdingAJC"accountable"

July 25, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

Mr. Wooten,

If you would but apply the same logic to your take on school “reform” as you do the Middle East. Simply put, you can NOT negoiate with terrorists, be they eight, eighteen, or eighty.

How can you have a discussion on what ails the public schools and not mention discipline? It’s like trying to discuss Lebanon and not mentioning Hezbollah. It simply is not an honest discussion.

Our schools are being run with the same philosophy as the United Nations…appease, appease, appease (forget the stem cell veto, as that horse done left the barn…obviously Neville Chamberlain has been cloned and disseminated throughout the public school landscape).

Let’s not do to our public school teachers what we did to our Vietnam soldiers: set them up to fail because we didn’t have the will to win.

You can’t have true “accountability” until you have authority to actually DO the job. Why conservatives get this on the war on terrorism, and not the war on illiteracy is completely, totally, incomprehensibly, beyond my ability to fathom. Any consevatives out there care to explain?

By abandoned by both wings!

July 25, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this

intriguing — we think they are sophisticated enough to exploit the banking laws to fund their endeavors, but not sophisticated enough to subtly influence domestic/foreign/monetary policy through elections….

I will admit — I have no idea which party would get the electoral boost from this escalation… republicans get more votes in times of war (or so the conventional wisdom says) but democrats could benefit from the perceived lack of leadership by the party in power (republicans)…

I just wouldn’t put it above them… After all, I recall a certain country who released a number of Americans held hostage only after the elections.

By Interested Observer

July 25, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this

Interesting that the so-called “conservative” pundits, both locally- and nationally-based, are labeling this latest conflict in the Middle East as World War III in an election year. Now that’s just purely coincidence, right?!

Look, I don’t want to minimize the seriousness of what’s going on over there right now. It’s a terrible, terrible tragedy on the civilians of both Lebanon and Israel, though I want to see Hamas and Hezbollah defanged as much as Jim does. But to escalate what’s going on there now into an existential threat to the United States is taking it much too far.

I’d be interested to read commentary that goes a little deeper than the “something’s gotta be done!” variety. What, exactly, do supporters of a wider war with Iran propose? Invading a country that’s much larger and more forbidding than Iraq, one in which the government enjoys much more support from the people than Saddam Hussein’s Iraq did? You may believe that government is just waiting to be toppled and that the Iranians would “greet us with sweets and flowers,” but the population voted Ahmenijad into power — to a greater or a lesser extent, they want him there.

I just want to caution people that the difficulty and the seriousness of what you’re proposing is of a level of magnitude far beyond what you imagine, and it’s irresponsible to goad our leaders and government into taking actions unless we fully understand what we’re getting into.

That’s my two cents.

By Gerald

July 25, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this

There is nothing spiritual about it! Everything belongs to God. Can’t we all just get along and live together in peace and prosperity? We already have to deal with natural disasters, HIV/AIDS, Bird flu, health care, homelessness, etc. etc. If we could just pool the assets of the world for the benefit of the world, without greed, the world would be a better place.

By Play that funky music whiteboy

July 25, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this

abandoned - manipulation of currency and banking laws internationally only requires a very small cadre of very bright people and a pc with an internet connection, manipulation of a countries elections, through an attack on another nation, through a third party?? Unless I missed something I don’t think Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Tamils, and North Korea are all working in unison - or is that the new “WMD’s in Iraq” evidence being touted by the administration? Let me guess right-wingers, Hezbollah is being contacted by Cynthia McKinney to keep it up because it will help her in the runoff?

Alright I’ll come out and say it, if you conservatives out there think that there is any possibility that even if Israel kills every single member of Hezbollah that this millenia old conflict will ever go away, you are daft. This conflict will flare up from time to time until the end of time, the best to hope for is containment of the conflict itself (whatever nation it may be at the time that wants to attack Israel), and a lot of peaceful time between the flareups, that’s it folks. All you Bible thumpers go read your Bible’s - Ishmael and Issac are destined to try and kill each other till the end of time.

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this

I truly believe that Israel has a right to defend itself. However, Israel must be careful not to undermine Arab moderates, as well as the Lebanese democracy. If Israel was truly able to root out Hezbollah, clearing the way for peace between Lebanon and Israel, I would have no qualms, but this is now proving to be improbable. Hezbollah is winning the war of propaganda in the Middle East and it is not the fault of BBC or any other perceived “leftist” media. Whenever there are images of dead Arab children shwon on Al Jazeera that were killed by US manufactured bombs, it is a point for Hezbollah and Islamists.

The one thing that needs to be done is to get Lebanese moderates, as well as other Arab moderates, such as King Hussein of Jordan, to get together and implement a strategy of neutralizing radical orgainizations like Hezbollah and Hamas. Definitely, in the long term, there needs to be sound economic policy, outside the dependency on oil revenue, that will drastically improve the standard of living of Arabs in the Levant and elsewhere. The less marginalized that people feel, the less likely they are to favor radical groups.

Everybody should remember that those two organizations were democratically elected and our seen as legit political entities by millions of people. We know that we have more weapons and firepower than the radical Islamists, however we now have to be smarter than the enemy and not givet them the opportunity to bait and exploit Israel and anybody that they don’t like.

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

Funky …

Way too many American Jews have a disgusting attitude to Israelis, particularly sabras (Israeli born jews) and sephardic (the darker/arab) jews. I’ve seen this a litle bit in the UK and especially Israel. The liberal LESS RELIGIOUS yankee jews love being in Israel, and the religious/CULTURAL baggage that goes with that, but its the “land” they care about, not what many of them deem the “inferior” local jewish Israelis as I described above. Obviously this doesn’t apply to all US jews, but with a very noticeable number that I’ve personally seen and interacted with in Israel its common enough. Its a dirty little secret that many jews quietly ignore. Its also more an American thang than UK or other nations.. Israelis know this is the case too - often they just laugh about it , but accept its the case. I have known a good many sephardic jews in Israel. From Iraq and Yemem in particular and they know its the case. Which is why the sephardics notably tend to vote differently to the liberal jews.

I’ve been to Israel five times and spent a year there in all - I’m not jewish - just very pro-Israel.

Many US liberal jews are anti-Israel like many liberal septics are anti-America.

I especially detest allen and streisand for pretty obvious reasons.

By Humbled by Courage

July 25, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

abandoned by both wings; Your post was interesting. Conservatives hold terrorists accountable for their actions. Democrats appease. Which party would you say they’re hoping for I wonder?

How would you explain their terroristic attacks over the last 15 to 25 years. You’re reaching here, can you reach back that far and explain?

By abandoned by both wings!

July 25, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

well, it was a thought, perhaps too cynical. However, seeing as how so many claim that this is all Iran’s fault, that they are acting through Hezbollah to attack Israel (and by default, the US) creating WWIII, my idea seems a little less far fetched.

By abandoned by both wings!

July 25, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

Humbled — I think the attacks of the last 25 years or so are spefically aimed at getting the entire world aligned against Israel (and by extension, the US). Ultimately, I think it is stage to set anyone in the world who is either Muslim or anti-semitic engaged in the destruction of the world as it exists to usher in an age of Islamic rule…. vesting ultimate power in the hands of a few Imans.

By Play that funky music whiteboy

July 25, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this

TFTT - thanks for the reply. It was just that the Jews I have known here were pretty gung-ho Israel, but I did hang with fellas that had spent time at a kibbutz (am I saying that right?) near Gaza. Didn’t know the undercurrents you referred to, thanks for the insight.

By Think Tank Timmy

July 25, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this

Here’s how I evaluate Hizbollah’s attack. They have 10K rockets. How did that many rockets get into S. Lebonon? Were they somehow smuggled into southern lebanon via Iraq and Syria from Iran.

Syria has been aligned with Iran since the 1980’s Iran/Iraq war, even though Iran is mostly Shia and Syria is mostly Sunni. Persians are not arabs either, so this Syria/Iran alliance is unnatural and portends illogical events.

How could the rockets have made it through Iraq?

Hizbollah is Shia. Iraq is Shia, both as a population majority and as the new elected government. Iran is Shia. Syria has a growing Shia community that has exploded since we occupied Iraq.

Shia is the common denominator here. Bush/Cheney, Rove/Wolfawitz, and every other geo-political genius who designed our occupation of Iraq did not understand what Saddam had accomplished (with our aid): Completely neutralizing the ethnic and sectarian rivalries in Iraq.

Iraq is the cradle of civilization. They have 10K year old outhouses there. We will never understand all the subsets of intersecting ethnic/sectarian alliances and rivalries.

After WW1, a French-guided British cartographer split these ancient tribes into Iraqis, Syrians, Jordanians, etc. so that if these once-closely-knit relatives ever decided to get back together, it would be a defacto invasion of one country into another, when in reality, it’s just uncle Duckmed joining his long lost nephews, Hoohad, Doohad, and Loohad.

That’s why Bush/Cheney didn’t even attempt to seal the border when we went into Iraq. You cant seal the border from the ancient routes these tribes paved with their very ancestors. There are spirits guarding the passes, nobody can close them.

The current crisis is not another Israeli show of force to fix Hamas or fix Hizbollah. This new war is part of the evolving Shia Revolution that Bush/Cheney uncorked.

A Shia Superstate of Iran/Iraq/Syria/Lebanon (with destroy Israel in it’s constitution and daily prayers) is now a certainty.

The mind of Iran? This is a very young country. The Iranian baby boomers were shouting “Death to America, Death to Israel” while American Baby Boomers were chanting “No Rain!” at Woodstock. We worshipped Sex, Drugs, and Rock and Roll, adn played Beatle records backwards to hear Satan, while Iran set history backwards and prayed that someday they could destroy the great satan: Israel/America.

The war is against Israel. America is just the patsy. Why? Because this is a 10K year old tribal war. USA is only 200 years old.

The Persians against the Jews. The Arabs against the Jews. (The Persians against the Arabs used to be the balance of power, but guess what happens when you divide by Allah? The Persians and the Arabs unite against the Jews, as Syria and Iran have done, against all the odds, against their DNA, and against their ancestor’s zeitgeist.)

It took the stupidity of the USA’s support of Saddam Hussein to accomplish that in the 1980s, but we did it.

Saddam had all of this well contained, until 2003. Oops we did it again.

The new lebanon chapter of the War to Destroy Israel, is not so much WW3, as it is the original war to end all wars, World War Genesis. (WWG)

Now, the think tank directs your attention to the anatomy of a accident. An accident, like the end of the world, comes about only when you put several independent, rare, or impossible to happen circumstances in play:

Like, the USA invading Iraq. Like radical Shias (Hizbollah/Hamas/Iraqis) getting electoral votes. Like Israel getting a promised land surrounded by ancient biblical foes. (That was a big one). Like Iran having it’s Shia Revolution and overthrowing our puppet. All this has happened in rapid fire succession in historical time-line terms.

For the Christian Coalition and Born Again Evangelical Neo-Crusaders: The only Armeggedon prophesy that hasn’t occured is China invading Israel. BUT: you have to look at those ancient tribal ties that Iran has with populations in China, and you can easily imagine how that prophesy is about to be fulfilled.

By abandoned by both wings!

July 25, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this

sorry — I forgot to answer your question about which party… I think it makes most sense for them to be hoping for the Democrats. But I’m not sure it matters too much either way. The idea would be that their actions influenced the US and moves them closer to an eradication of Israel by destablizing the US population. (internal strife surrounding government would certainly destablize the US — or it might — which is why the polarization of the US electorate is beneficial to the terrorists)

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this

Funky … Its clearly not all US jews, more the snotty liberal types (both religious and political), and this is not a joke about liberals. Its a kind of racism, much more New YAAAAAAAAAAWK than Atlanta of course.

I was stunned when I saw it the first few times, I assumed more than almost anywhere esle on earth these folks would be pulling together. Its a liberal/conservative split too - but that’s hardly the sole dividing line.

I encountered it in Jerusalem as well as on kibbutzim and hanging out in Tel Aviv. I’ve been on several kibbutzim, mostly in the Northern Galilee and one very near Tel Aviv and also Nahariya. Although not for 15 years now.

By candide

July 25, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

Don’t look into the bible to find out the future. Look into the bible to see the foolishness which the bible perpetuates among people too stupid to see it for what it is: bunkum.

By Loretta

July 25, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

Can you imagine how much more unstable this situation would be if we hadn’t already invaded Iraq and brought peace and prosperity to it? We’re doing great things! I can’t wait to see what we do for Israel.

By RC

July 25, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

Islam seems to be the one common ingredient to the majority of the violence across the world. Hmmmmmmmm.

By deegee

July 25, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

Many believe that the Sunni-Shia hatred for each other is even more profound than the Muslim hatred of the Jews. I think this needs to be taken into account when discussing peace coalitions and drawing Israel’s border states into peace talks. There is another agenda and it’s not war or peace with Israel. If the US had taken this into account prior to the invasion of Iraq we may have had a different strategy. The “peaceful” Saudi Arabia is like the once “peaceful” Iraq under Sadaam Hussein. It’s containment of an historically violent rivalry.

By concerned citizen

July 25, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this

Jim, I agree that we need to support Israel in their mission to weaken Hizbollah. We also need to keep a strong front with regards to Iran. The problem is not in the objective. I think left, right, middle can all agree that the objective of all freedom loving people is a safe world in which acts of terrorism are next to nil and the rogue regimes under which the seeds are planted for terroristic behavior are toppled and replaced with forward thinking people. The problem is in the execution of this objective. If war with Iran is the only course of action that will achieve this objective, I think it must be done. But I for one have absolutely no faith in this administration and it’s secretary of defense to carry out this objective. They have made misteps at every turn, ignoring facts and the expert opinions of their own military which have proven costly, not only in American life, but in billions down the toilet and lost credibility in the world. Does anyone honestly believe Iran would be so bold if we hadn’t blundered Iraq? Not only did we take out two of Iran’s biggest enemies (this side of Israel or ourselves), the Taliban and Saddam Hussein, we showed everybody our playbook and how crappy it is. Plus we’ve basically told the whole world that we’ll f*ck you up if you don’t have nuclear weapons, but if you’ve got them, we have to back down and negotiate. But there are perils lying in the weeds if a regional conflict opens up. We’ve proven that we have a hard time conducting operations in Iraq and Afghanistan simultaneously. So if we get dragged into a ground war with Iran, it’s possible that uprisings could break out in Pakistan and/or Saudi Arabia by the populations that are sympathetic to al Queda, seeing an opportunity to take advantage of the U.S.’s focus on Iran/Iraq/Syria. Even though these two governments are stated allies of the U.S., neither countries general population supports that policy. If Saudi Arabia’s royal family was overthrown, it could further effect the world’s oil supply, straining the U.S.’s ability to execute their military operations. If Pakistan’s government were overthrown, the world would face it’s most dire of circumstances. Pakistan has nuclear weapons. And so does it’s mortal enemy, India. If Mussharif goes down, don’t think India will wait for things to work themselves out. They will take whatever steps are necessary to protect themselves, even preemptive nuclear strikes. And while all this could be going on, there’s North Korea. What might they do if the see an opening to help their dire situation? Would they attack Japan, or turn on China to gain much needed resources? You see there are all kinds of things that could go wrong if the U.S. is perceived as too preoccupied to respond. That’s why I’m scared to death that these issues could be left in the hands of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld to deal with. I don’t care if we another Republican wins the next presidency, we need more competetent people planning for these contingencies than we have now.

By Lola

July 25, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

@Liberal - when hezbolla hides among civilian populations and uses them as human shields, what do you think is going to happen when Israel defends itself? Arab children and women are going to die, which is exactly what Hezbolla wants to happen. It’s sad that there are pictures of dead arab children being used as propoganda, but Israel has no choice but to fire upon the enemy where they are hiding and where they are launching their rockets from. If Lebanon had taken charge of the Hezbolla situation to begin with, none of this would be happening and Israel wouldn’t be forced to, once again, defend itself and its right to be a recognized state.

As for bringing the “moderate” muslims on board, they are, as always, deafeningly silent on the matter of their “religion of peace” (LOL) being taken hostage by the radicals. They had a chance to speak out against these terrorist animals of Hamas and Hezbolla, and did not. Now they reap what they sow.

By Jim's a Dummy

July 25, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

Huh.

I thought that Sheriff Bush had already tamed the middle east. What with all the jawboning them about gas prices and accomplishing his mission in Iraq and all. Heck, I was thinking they’d all be democratic, capitalist Christains by now.

Jim, you make it sound like it’s getting worse…

By Joe L.

July 25, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

To call this WWIII is idiotic. Merely because it’s a war of proxy between aligned larger powers, does not make it a “world war”. First, if that was the case this would be about WW5 (Korea, Vietnam) or really about WW15 or 16. What makes a “world war” is the number of active combatants and the size of the battlefield.

Calling this “WWIII” is just more conservative fear mongering. Someone mentioned if this conflict is connected to our midterm elections, it’s not. But labeling it “WWIII” is most CERTAINLY connected to the fact that the clearly lacking and failing Republicans are about to be booted from power.

By Joe L.

July 25, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

TFTT - In your long post you overlook two important things. One you talk about rockets getting to Lebanon via Iraq. Why do you think it’s a land route? Ever heard of a plane or ship? It’s very easy for Iran to get material to Syria or Lebanon without Iraq being involved.

Second while Syria is Sunni, it’s mostly secular. It’s run by the same Ba’ath party is Iraq was when it was secular. So they align based on political expediency, not religious factors.

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

Lola,

That is exactly my point. When they cowardly hide among civilians and Israeli bombs that are meant for Hezbollah happen to kill innocent civilians, then Hezbollah has won a moral victory. Israel and its allies need to be smarter than this. As far as Lebanon not dealing with Hezbollah…don’t forget that Lebanese Christian, Druze, and Sunnis fought against Hezbollah and resulted in a stalemate.

Iran has become emboldened because of its vast reserves of oil. They know that as long as they provide crude to the rapidly growing economies of India and China, which comprise almost half of the world’s population, then there will be always someone who will stand in the way of them being attacked militarily. Dependence on oil also allows dictators to stay in power as they have money to support their political machines.

Now is the time, more than ever, to develop and implement alternative fuel technology. And please nobody tell me that we can’t. We are one of the most innovative and hard-working countries in the world. Are we weak enough to allow our addiction on oil interfere with our mission to implement peace and stablility in the Middle East? I hope not.

By Eric

July 25, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

Nearly every trouble spot in the world (with the exception of North Korea) has ne thing in common.

Islam.

Coincidence?

Hardly.

By be afraid

July 25, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this

Head for the HILLS!!! WWIII is coming!! everybody hide quick!

if every conflict in the mid east were a “world war”, we be up to about 100, I’d bet.

Can you tell it’s an election year? WWIII is a good tool to frighten people into voting for the tough talking republicans.

By Barbara

July 25, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this

For the record, Humbled, Barbara’s comment was in support of the Israeli girls signing the bombs. My sentiments mirrored those you wrote in your earlier post. I was responding to another poster who was outraged by the pictures of these girls.

As for Redneck, I see you failed to mention the 15 year old Israeli girl killed by the Hezbollah bomb. I guess the children of Israelis don’t count in your sick little world.

By Stewart

July 25, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

Joe L,

Your comments regarding the Republicans being booted may be dead on, however your argument regarding the size of the battlefield does not hold water. Korea and Vietnam were a part of the “Cold War”, which may consider World War 3. Nevertheless this confrontation between Western ideology and Islamic militism is being fought in North America, Europe, Middle East, Africa and Southeast Asia. The term “World War 3” in reference to this battle has been used prior to this election cylcle and as far back as the Clinton Administration in the book “Clash of Civilizations”, written by Sam Huntington.

By Joe L.

July 25, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this

Stewart - You are merely repeating my argument back to me. The Cold War was the Cold War and NOT WWIII (or if this is a WW then so was Korea and Vietnam). Major world powers have fought proxy wars for hundreds and hundreds of years. There have only been two World Wars where nearly every major power on the globe was an active combatant and battle raged across the entire world.

Even the greater “War of Terrorism” is not a World War. First if we fight it as military action we will lose. Sure there will be small pieces that the military will execute, but this “War” will be won through police action, intelligence, covert actions, and sociopolitical actions. Which is another reason it’s not a “World War”.

By Markus

July 25, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

Ok listen up liberal appeasement ladies. Islamofascists like Hezbolla want Israel DESTROYED. PERIOD. Let’s look at the record of liberal appeasement policies from the recent past in Israel:

1993 - Oslo Accords: FAILURE 2000 - Israel pulls out of south Lebanon: FAILURE 2006 - Israel pulls out of Gaza: FAILURE

2004 - UN Resolution 1559 calling “for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese miltias (means Hezbollah to you mentally-challenged liberals). FAILURE.

Now let’s look at what Arabs have been saying about Israel: “They have no right no exist.” Israel needs to be wiped off the face of the earth.” “We will destroy Israel.”

I don’t ever remember Israel saying that about Arab states. Israel pulls out of south Lebanon as a goodwill peace gesture and what happens? Hezbollah looks at is as a sign from Allah and moves in with weapons.

Appeasement will not work with these fanatics, liberal ladies. They ONLY know two things: die or die under Israeli “dominiation.” The islamofascists do not want peace and have never wanted peace with the West and/or “infidels.”

So wake up you mindless minion terrorist-appeasing liberal goons, because what goes on over there will eventually be brought to our back yard, whether you like it or not. They’ll slice you liberals’ throats open just as quick as that of a conservative’s.

“They will not stop, EVER, until you are DEAD.” - The Terminator

Step aside liberal appeasement ladies and pot-smoking pony-tailed hippies: the time for appeasement is over.. you idea didn’t work.

By harshtruth

July 25, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

There is neither God nor Ali yet the belief in these fairy tales causes mankind to be unable to live together in peace. If we delay the inevitable almost all mankind is going to die in a nuclear holocaust. The Christian West and Middle Eastern Islam will never accept one another. If the US didn’t need a drop of oil another reason to fight would be found. If we act now and wipe Iran from the map most of mankind could be saved. No more nation building, no more democratic elections, no more endless and useless UN paper shuffling. Tehran, Esfhan and Shiraz become radioactive holes in the sand followed by the systematic killing of the population. If Syria takes the hint good if not also good. It’s sad that millions of people need to die because (and are going to now matter what we do) of beliefs in imaginary beings but humans seem to being are genetically predisposed to fascination with superstition and myth.

By Markus

July 25, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

@Joe L.

“Even the greater “War of Terrorism” is not a World War. First if we fight it as military action we will lose.”

Well obviously the brilliance of you democrats handling terrorism as a “crime” issue during the Clinton 90s did a whole helluva lot, didn’t it?

The hell we can’t win this militarily. Actually, in a way we can’t, because these wicked islamofascists following a false prophet to their deaths hide like cowards. Let’s see them come over here to the Red States and try some action. We’ll hang them and gut them like hogs. Of course, limpnoodled anti-military areas of the nation like San Freaksicko would be overrun and forced to olearn how to pray east six times a day.

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this

I did not see a post on here talking about appeasement. As far as Israel being backstabbed after holding up their end of the bargain in pulling out of Gaza and southern Lebanon, I agree with you.

However, openly flailing your fists in a crowded bar after being hit in the head with a bottle will run the risk of you hitting the wrong person and being arrested yourself.

Excuse the analogy, but I hope you see the point. There is no doubt that we can kick some major a$$. However, at what cost? We have to be smarter. Hezbollah is clearly trying to bait Israel and the West, in order to boost the rep of that trash-talking punk who is the prime minister of Iran. Every dead Arab child is another body to exploit for Hezbollah’s and Iran’s warped cause. We have to be smarter.

By rarringt

July 25, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

Some of the definitions of WWIII seem to be a bit vague this morning. I guess that means the crusades, fought by people from three separate continents (africa, asia, and europe) over the span of decades must have also qualified as a world war. As were the punic wars (rome vs. carthage) and of course the mongol invasions (the khans vs basically everyone on the eurasian supercontinent)

There have always been wars fought by greater powers that have used proxy states. The use of religious ideology to further one’s political and/or resource acquisition ambitions is nothing new (see generally Ralph Reed and George W. Bush).

What is new, and dangerous, is that the resources fought over are near-universally recognized as diminishing in supply. You can see the results for yourself at the pumps. More distressingly, this is the first time both proxy states have access to nukes. Nukes, nonsecular manipulation, and newfound power in oil weath can make for a very deadly mix.

Bush didn’t start this. Neither did Clinton. We do, however, have a role to do something about it beyond the traditional lip service.

By Karen

July 25, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

Good Afternoon all…To Rednecks, You sir are nothing but a Simon Colwell WANNA BE!!!, too bad you’ll never have his kinda money,prestigue or respect. I think you expect to become famous posting your stupid comments on the AJC. What a MORON!!! Truth is buddy I’ll forget about you after this and so will everyone else. In truth, you are a boil on the butt of humanity and I am so glad that you are not in charge of my government. Have a wonderful day in the UK:)

By Ultra Elf

July 25, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

Well Done, Markus. Maybe, just maybe, the liberals will wake up and smell the pizza. Well written, and to the point.

By clarkslawga

July 25, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

TFTT,

Jeez, for a loser from Valdosta playing a fake Brit you sure are touchy about that other guy. I suppose someone else ripping off your gimmick might get under your skin a bit.

Oh and I read all your tough talk after I left yesterday. You and Ugotta got together and decided it was you 9 and me 1, but I think those judges were activist judges so I’ll just ignore their ruling.

I reread some of yesterday’s posts and you were kind of obvious in your attempt to rebuild your persona. Pretty slim on the fake “accent” until you got called a fake, then you brought in on strong. Try to be a little more subtle next time. That way you seem a little less fake.

And I’ll take your title of a “pathetic pillock whose moral cowardice has turned the blog into a circus for nothing other than their selfish ego gratification.” But see it’s more than that. I need a good larffff as you like to call it and laughing at your expense is just the kind of thing that makes me happy. And as for your pathetic attempt at recovery by calling me a “nutter who spent the last couple of hours attempting to witlesly upbraid me” I’ll wear that with pride too. Why, because although you claimed I was obsessed with you, you were the one still talking about me 30 minutes after I told you I was leaving. So whose obsessed, Mate?

Face it weak one. I’ll never go away and nothing you say, no names you call me will bother me. You can ignore me if you want, but that just means I win.

And one day, if your really, really good I’ll let you in on why I am doing this. I have a reason and it has nothing whatsoever to do with politics. Hmmmm what could it be?

Now listen to this next part very carefully, I won’t be on today, so now is your chance to be really brave and really British. Oh and have all your friends join in beating up on me. They aren’t going to bother me or change things either.

As for me, I have appointments to keep so I’ll just sod off……..Fake.

Time for the Truth: an illusory feat; considered magical by naive observers [syn: magic trick, conjuring trick, trick, magic, legerdemain, conjuration, illusion]

By Markus

July 25, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

@Liberal: “I did not see a post on here talking about appeasement.”

The comment transcends beyond this blog into the general atmosphere of the appeasement left, which at it’s ultimate pathetic morph is in the form of Cindy “I’d rather live in Venezuela under Chavez” Sheephead Sheehan.

“However, openly flailing your fists in a crowded bar after being hit in the head with a bottle will run the risk of you hitting the wrong person and being arrested yourself.”

As opposed to just sitting there and taking a pounding over the head time after time after time? All innocents should clear the bar and the fight’s on. That’s what Israel tried to do with leaflets.

“Every dead Arab child is another body to exploit for Hezbollah’s and Iran’s warped cause. We have to be smarter.”

What is your definition of “smarter?” We’ve seen “smart” under the Clinton Administration, and all that did was allow more festering and growing of terrorism. The time for “smart” is over. Israel got burned as did we. It’s now time to destroy, and destroy Israel will do with the US watching closely.

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

I totally agree with you rarringt (with the exception of ANWR, different argument, different time). We gotta get rid of this dependence on oil. It’s humiliating and complete folly that we’re dependent on oil from places that don’t like us. I’m sorry, but I just have more pride than that.

If we drastically decrease our dependency on oil, then revenues for corrupt regimes and terrorist organizations drastically drop. This would force economies in the Middle East to diversify, thus hopefully establishing a stable middle class and making it harder for extremist groups to gain an audience.

By Van

July 25, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this

Joe L,

I have to agree with you, calling this WWIII is wrong.

Traditionally, WWIII was the cold war between USSR and the US. A battle between Communisim and Captitalism if you must.

In 1992, Count de Marenches, the former head of French intelligence, wrote a book alleging that a “fourth world war”, of terrorism versus civilization, was taking place.

So, to be correct, Newt should have called this WWIV, a world war against terrorists in all forms. Until the UN wakes up, doubtful, this war on terrorism will not be taken seriously, except in a few places, Israel being one who has been fighting this war for nearly 60 years, ever since they declared themselves the country of Israel.

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

Joe … I never mentioned rockets or Iraq etc. And I am well aware of the camel caravan routes vs shipping options.

Assad Sr and Jr are Alawites which is the minority (sunni) tribe in Syria. Yes they are secular, and they wiped out 20k plus of the mohammedan brutherhood back in the 1980’s in a big massacre of fanatics.

They have just signed a pact with Iran for mutual security etc - basically its an anti-Israeli-US pact as their mutual interests are in destroying/attacking Israel and US interests.

Doubtless your utterly objective conservative bashing is absolutely factual and not in the least emotive - eh?

It is S L O W L Y turning into WW3. This time towel head terrorists and their mohammedan fuehrers will be the PRIME targets, not the ordinary people of these countries, unless they are forced to take up arms by their police state rulers.

JUts look at the increasing co-operation between Iranian paymasters and the terrorists . Islamic Jihad is Hezbollah’s Gaza franchise … Syria hosts numerous terror groups and Hizbollocks needs/needed Syrian help/permission to operate their murderous little autonomous state within Lebanon … and in the bigger picture the mushrooming shadowy mohammedan groups all over the world essentially have TWO targets JEWS/WESTERNERS and so called arab moderate dictators who oppose them.

Sigh … its a crying shame the Iran - Iraq war had to stop - that was the perfect scenario for the west!!

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

No, we’re not supposed to sit there and just take it. What we need to do is actually have dialogue with Syria and Iran. And when I say dialogue, I don’t mean have tea and crumpets and just sign a weak treaty. I mean talk and lay down the line what Israel expects. Further expose how Hezbollah is funded by the two regimes. If they cross that line then all bets are off.

The problem with this situation, as the president said, is that it is Syria and Iran that are causing this “sh#t”. Dismantling a developing Arab democracy, like Lebanon, is counterproductive and is playing into the hands of Assad and Ahmadnijehad.

By Realist

July 25, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this

I think the idea of an Islamic Superstate in the Middle East with nuclear capability is exactly what the current administration fears, and rightly so. It is very much lining up that way. The current conflict in Lebanon must be carried out and completed by Israel as another step in stopping this chain of events. Just as ousting Saddam was. I as a voter and a citizen fear a liberal administration being in control during this time. They have shown time and time again that they do not grasp the gravity of what is going on in the middle east and how important it is that we intervene in the interest of preserving our way of life.

I personally beleive that if this Islamic Superstate becomes a reality, the US will clearly be in no position to use the same tactics or war plan that we struggled with in Iraq and Afghanistan. I think and hope we will have an administration in power that will have the courage to step up and consider a preemptive large scale nuclear attack before it allows Israel or other US allies to be attacked similarly. The US has got to be the leader on this, much to the chagrin of the “bury our heads in the sand” liberals.

By Van

July 25, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this

Liberal,

How do you negotiate with a culture that has one goal. Convert the world to Islam. Radical Islam is intolerant and deadly for those of different faiths. Any compromise is an advancement of this concept.

In some countries, it is a death sentance to convert FROM islam.

Tell me, how would you deal with them?

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this

“preemptive large scale nuclear attack”.

…and surround Israel by a bunch of countries emitting radiation and nuclear winters?

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this

Liberals are BLOODY BIG ON JUST TALKING!!

I recall that narcissistic leftist moron Carter “talked” to the N Koreans and he and sick willie got taken in when “buying” them off - but it worked out real well as the N Koreans didn’t LIE to Carter/Clinton and kept their word. Maybe we can get the joke Carter to negotiate such another blinding successful agreement.

The ONLY dialogue with Syria and Iran should be … stop ALL your terrorism, ALL your support for terrorism, your nuclear chicanery etc - and unless you do in 30 days (max) … Bruce, Clint, Arnie and Sly are coming at ya!!

By Realist

July 25, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

Liberal, I think you watch too much TV. There are varying levels of atomic and nuclear warheads that can be used quite effectively with acceptable risks and losses. The perception that using nuclear capability in any way will result in nuclear winter and the end of the planet as we know it is naive and uninformed. Lets not forget Hiroshima…

By Joe L.

July 25, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

Van - The Cold War was NOT WWIII. As a matter of fact during the Cold War the threat of WWIII was a large part of the propaganda against Communism and bolstering the IMC. If you count the Cold War as “World War” then we are not on III or IV but about 15 or 16 as someone also pointed out above. Fighting proxy wars does not constitute a WW.

TFTT - That was supposed to be TTT, sorry.

Liberal - Actually we are helping the Lebanese democracy. They had neither the strength or political position to dismantle and/or disarm Hizbollah. This accomplishes that goal while giving the democratic government complete removal and no chance of being connected to the act.

By Van

July 25, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

Liberal,

Low yield tactical nuclear weapons would leave relatively small areas radioactive, if you look at Japan in the aftermath of WWII, recovery was rapid.

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this

I didn’t say “just talk”, nor did I say negotiate. There is nothing to negotiate. They should know, as well as the rest of the world, what the reality of the situation is. And yes TFTT, the only dialogue should be “stop ALL your terrorism”. If they cross the line, then there should be reprocussions against them, not Lebanon.

By Joe L.

July 25, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

Van - Believe it or not al-Qaeda and most radical Islamic groups could care less about the U.S. in the grand scheme of things. If we are heathens way over here it doesn’t bother them. What they want is for the entire Holy Land - basically the entire Middle East - to be an Islamic theocracy. We are mainly targets because we support the Saudis, not even the Israelis.

Not that I am saying that we can or should let this happen, but that it’s the ultimate goal - NOT converting the U.S or the West ot Islam.

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

That is true. Hiroshima did recover. However, if use nuclear weapons, then we give the enemy the “victim” platform to stand on. We have to take that away from them and expose them as the “aggressors”. That is one thing that many people in the world right now don’t get. I understand that Hezbollah started all of this, but sadly everybody just focuses on Israel being the aggressors because of their large-scale response. Being smarter is taking away all legitimacy from Hezbollah before the eyes of the rest of the world.

By harshtruth again

July 25, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

There is no such thing as an innocent all beings on the Earth are party to what is taking place now. Fights over resources have been complicated by superstitious beliefs to the extend that the resources are no longer relevant to the fight. Reducing our dependency on oil is a good short term strategy to provide fewer resources for our enemies but it will not change the inevitable clash of ideologies that must come. Life on this planet is not a beauty contest and no prize for Miss Congeniality will be awarded. The time to slaughter our enemies is at hand. We must use every weapon, every tactic and kill them all without mercy. We must not delay nor cower from the task at hand for now we have the technological advantage and must use it.

By JK

July 25, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

How do you negotiate with a culture that has one goal. Convert the world to Islam.

Van, please do not join the diplomatic corps. First, you cannot negotiate with a culture. You can only negotiate with people in power or their proxies. Second, not everyone who lives in an Islamic nation cares what YOU believe. (No one has ever knocked on my door with pamphlets to convert me to Islam. If they wanted me to convert, wouldn’t they be TRYING to convert me?) At the end of the day, most people want what we all want: to put food on our families (Haha! Sorry for the Bush quote), to tuck our kids in and go to bed with our loved ones with the reasonable expectation of waking up in the morning, going to work of some kind, eating, and going about daily life in peace. Radical fringe groups grab the spotlight for their “causes” and instigate violence and instability that cause regular people to suffer. Negotiate with leaders by appealing to what’s truly best for the people and hence their power. Negotiate for as long as it takes to come to an agreement to rid the world of the violent fringe people who mess things up for everybody else — or at least to remove their motivating factors. Common ground and common effort is key. Negotiate until the children can grow up and start families of their own instead of dying in bloody little pieces for somebody’s cause.

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

Harshtruth,

Don’t forget that terrorism is a multibillion dollar industry and it is largely funded by oil revenue. Oil revenue also gives rogue regimes financial backing to stay in power. If countries in the Middle East diversified their economies and developed their infrastructure and economies, like that United Arab Emirates, then people wouldn’t feel marginalized and resort to radical Islamists groups.

Realize that most Arabs look down on Palestinians. They really don’t care. However, Israel provides a good distraction for despots when their subjects are restless. It allows them to divert all of thier energy and discontent to Israel and the evil “zionists”. If people were able to stand on their own two feet and live comfortably, they really would be indifferent towards Israeal.

By JK

July 25, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this

Low yield tactical nuclear weapons would leave relatively small areas radioactive, if you look at Japan in the aftermath of WWII, recovery was rapid.

Seriously. People like YOU are the problem. Why don’t you shove that low-yield tactical thing up your own crochety, hate-filled, racist orafice and detonate it. SERIOUSLY. I am ashamed to share a nationality, race, time, or planet with you. Utterly and thoroughly ashamed that you are a fellow American. Going to hurl my lunch now. Thanks Van, as always.

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

@ anal loserga

Sad control freaks like yourself are there to be occasionally laughed and sneered at as was the case yesterday.

Keeping this pointless, puerile personal bollocks going day after day as you clearly seem to be cretinously demanding merely feeds your sick twisted obsessive persona.

Debate me on politics any time you like bubbaturd on this PUBLIC politics blog - but keep your pathetic, compulsive need for wanker like hectoring for your fellow inpatients.

Now bugger off - there’s a good dog!!

By Susan

July 25, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

It’s looking mighty Afghanistan/Mujaheddin all over again, and the mujaheddin sent the Russians packing.

Hezbollah finally got Israel out of Lebanon, and now that Israel is back, I’m hard pressed to see what Israel has accomplished. Should their version of shock n awe brought Hezbollah to its knees, weeping for mercy and begging for a ceasefire? Hardly.

Interesting that you can bomb an entire nation and still not “win”.

If as other here say they are nothing more than a bunch of towel heads, why is it with less sophisticated weapons and less feet on the ground the Israelis are still battling this out?

Maybe the Israelis just are not “all that”.

They’ll get their smackdown and then they’ll retreat once again.

And as Iran’s leader said, maybe it’s time to relocate the Israelis. That way, no more of them die, the Middle East can sort itself out, and we all breath a sigh of relief.

Regarding all the Biblical prophesy bandied about, who says that now is the time that the Israelis are supposed to be in Palestine?

Maybe their time is a few millenia away. But for now, why would anyone choose to live surrounded by folks who don’t appreciate their presence on all sides?

Give up I say and it would really calm stuff down. And think of all the money that would be saved.

As the conservative right wing nutjobs like to parrot, if you don’t like it where you are, move to India.

I suggest New Zealand. Beautiful scenery, a burgeoning motion picture business and lots of opportunity. Bagels to New Zealand!

By Realist

July 25, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

JK, as awful as the thought of it is you must realize that that is exactly what we may be facing in the very near future. Either attacking or being attacked. That is why it is so important to remain aggressive and fight these folks and those who harbor and aid them now before it comes to that. It is so much closer than many of us think. Will it take your family or loved ones being killed by a suicide bomber at the shopping mall to change your mind? I dont want it to come to that, and it will without the right leadership in office.

By Think Tank Timmy

July 25, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

Are we so listless and leaderless that we are reduced to quoting Newt Ginrich about this being WW3?

This war is 10K years old. Calling it WW3 is so anachronistic that only a total idiot like Ginrich would come up with it.

Google the Kurds. Notice how closely their history parallels that of the Jews. They’ve been dealing with the same Arabs the Jews have.

It’s more complicated than “WW3” would lead you to believe.

By thought provoking

July 25, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this

I wonder who the right people in office would be….

this link shows a chronology of terror attacks since 1961… it made me wonder exactly who should be in power as the attacks have happened under both dems and repubs.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/5902.htm

By Ugotta B. Kidding

July 25, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

It’s mighty easy to want to “negotiate” when your A$$ is not the one being shot at or ducking rockets. Hezbollah was cocky and spoiling for a fight. They’ve had 6 years to get ready and they started it when they kidnapped the Israeli soldier and killed the other two IN ISRAELI TERRITORY. But they might’ve let their bulldog mouth overload their chihuahua A$$ this time. At least I certainly hope so! Now shut up and let Israel clean up that Hell hole!!!

By harshtruth

July 25, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

Liberal

All the money in the world won’t change anything. We send them millions in oil money that is used to try to kill us. Any money they get by any means will be used to try to kill us. Unfornately a difference in which fairy tale being each group chooses to believe in has made this fight no longer about any resource. We must do everything possible to wipe them from the Earth because that is exacly the plan they have for us. As far as the nuke question goes I would prefer the neutron bomb. It kills with high radaition levels rather than blast so the fall out is reduced and the infrastructre left intact so as to be taken and used against the enemy. This is a fight for survival. There are no rules, no judges and no time outs. If we do not win we will lose. Unfornately we run our country like a block party. Millions of people are here illegally and our borders are totally insecure. We have a history or getting caught with our pants down; WWI ,Pearl Harbor,9-11. I say no more we don’t wait till NY and DC go up in a nuclear mushroom cloud before we wake up. These people hate our religion our culture and everthing about us. We need to start killing them now before they become more technologically advanced. Once every major city in Iran is turned to dust you’ll be amazed how fast the other so called powers in the middle east start back tracking when face with their own utter destruction.

By JK

July 25, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

Ugotta, of course people have to defend themselves, at times with force! Never said otherwise. That doesn’t nullify the need for ongoing negotiations, but rather, intensifies it. It’s not in the best interest of the Lebonese people to allow this group to terrorize their neighbors. Even if you get to the end of time without a full resolution, the important thing is to keep trying. (Silly me… buying into all that “love thy neighbor” business. I guess I haven’t let modern repub- I mean Christians fill me with their 700-club brand of hate yet. Sorry.)

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

“This war is 10K years old.”

learn to think Tommy obviously doesn’t understand that recorded history isn’t quite 10K years old!!

Just another silly liberal exaggeration seemingly based on petulant bitter envy of Newt!!

The difference with the Kurds sunshine, is that no one has perpetrated a systematic genocide against them on a Hitler like SIX MILLION scale, (soddom and the turks have not literally tried to eradicate them in the same way) nor have they have been physically been hounded/persecuted across the globe the way the Jews have for centuries. The Kurds have largely remained in and around their ‘home’ geography - by choice. The Jews have not always had that choice!!

By Addis sun

July 25, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

MY COMMENTS IS JUST ABOUT “THE RIGHT” CALLING THIS “WORLD WAR THREE” SORRY, NATIONS AROUND THE WORLD HAVE A TRUE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE NOWADAYS; WE ARE NOT GOING TO FOLLOW YOU INTO YOUR CRUSADE,UNDER THE CODE NAME “WAR ON TERROR”, GIVE IT UP.

By Ugotta B. Kidding

July 25, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

JK: In some situations I might agree with you BUT what does Israel stand to gain by negotiating? Seriously you don’t think they would be negotiating with a legitimate government in Lebanon. HOW MANY times has Israel negotiated cease fires ONLY to be attacked AGAIN! Why would THIS TIME be any different? These morons respect only one thing…POWER and the fact that Israel can kick their A$$. They built up a huge arsenal of weaspons during this last 6-year “cease fire”, they could have nuclear weapons the next time around. Do you really want to chance these morons having WMD? I really don’t think the people of Israel do!

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

Harshtruth,

Advocating killing an entire people is boarderline genocidal. And yes, I realize that radical Islamists are trying to commit genocide on us. As long as people are poor, down, and out they will be more likely to resort to radical groups that build up their self-esteem. A weakened Germany was the reason that Hitler rose to power and an exploited Iran is the reason that the Ayatollah came to power.

A fight for survival…not really. A fight for peace and stability…more so. As long as we have the image of the aggressor, we will be unable to be effective. We got to lose that image and take away the “victim” platform from Hezbollah, Hamas, and other radical Islamists.

By bubbaWarrior

July 25, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

Candide you are a fool!!!! There was a UN resolution for Syria to leave, Hebozolla to disarm, just like the resolution for Sadam Hussein to disarm, leave Kuwait, open up his country for inspection, feed and give his people medication, but you liberals will never understand because of your hatred of George Bush, christians, and Republicans.

Your liberal minds thinks if Bush had, but he did, never mind Bill Clinton never solved anything, let terrorist get away with the Cole bombing, the barracks bombing in Saudi Arabia, I could have been it that barracks.

People like you will never understand the minds of these terrorist, until you and your family members. You can’t negotiate with someone that beheads a 12 year old kid, shot women in the back of the head, brainwash people to commit sucide for Allah. Sadam use kids to clear mine field in the 80’s but your logical thinking makes sense for your democratic liberal agenda.

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

Another thing that should come out of this is for Israel, the US, and allies to get NATO and the UN (yes I know)to pass a resolution stating that any attack by Hezbollah on Israel will be seen as an attack by Syria and Iran. That declaration alone will let the whole world know the situation and if Hezbollah tries something then all bets are off.

By Lee

July 25, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

I’m a Patriotic flag waving, capitalist American. That believes in Israel protecting itself and it’s people. But moving parallel to this subject is why we’re there in the middle east. It’s all about sustaining the economy. However, we lost that in history. Let’s go back to 1973 and 1978 oil embargo’s. Who remembers the 2 hour lines to get gas? No, one! Because of our lack of will, our lack of understanding oil production, our lack of saving, both monetarily and resources and our GREED we are where we are. We left conservation with autos in the 70’s and are now struggling to get the Automakers and the government to increase the CAFE standards for mileage. We no longer try to save energy but expend it at an ever increasing rate!! And the US automakers wonder why they are losing sales to the Japanese auto makers. The whole of the middle east is not just about democracy, it is also about oil. NO one can ever convice me that 1. This is not about oil and 2. We must be disciplined to a. win the war on terrorism and b. conserve energy at all costs! See related article dated 1991>> Reacting to America’s alleged excessive dependence on Middle East oil and to last fall’s gasoline price increases, Congress is considering raising the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards, which mandate average minimum miles per gallon (mpg) for the fleet of automobiles sold in America by each manufacturer. The “Motor Vehicle Fuel Efficiency Act” (S. 279), introduced by Senator Richard Bryan, the Nevada Democrat, would increase the current 27.5 mpg standard to approximately 34 mpg by 1996 and approximately 40 mpg by 2001. (See News from the U.S. Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, 102nd Cong., 1st Sess., March 19, 1991, p. 2. The bill would require each manufacturer to raise its own fleets’ mpg averages to 20 percent by 1996, and then 40 percent by 1996, over the levels actually achieved in the 1988 model year. Since different manufacturers had different fleet averages in 1988, the law no longer would apply the same standards to all manufacturers after 1996; some would have to increase their fleet averages more than others.)

Supporters maintain that this increase is necessary to reduce America’s fuel consumption. The recent fall (1991) in oil prices, however, removes a major reason given for higher CAFE standards. Here’s the link http://www.heritage.org/Research/EnergyandEnvironment/BG825.cfm

We, the Amerian consumer can no longer be the wasteful consumer that we have been in the last 30+ years. We must do what we can to conserve and to demand that new refineries be built to help with the demand for gasoline and other fuels. It’s not so much the shortage of oil but the refinery capacity!! I know, I worked for Amoco and Unocal during the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s. It is a shame that environmental and economic groups cannot share in what is best for our country. We can not survive without the benefit of energy and the two most popular are fought by the conservationists. I understand that too. I want a clean environment and working together we can make this happen. Think American. We are on the verge of an economic collapse. All it takes is another disruption in the energy chain and don’t think for one minute that our enemies don’t know this!! We must work togther to reduce FOREIGN oil dependency!! Especially those of enemy states!!

By MrLiberty

July 25, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

The real war now is not between Iran and the US. It is between the citizens of the US who believe that this country should be a responsible republic, a shining example of freedom, a country that minds its own business, and those who wish to continue working on behalf of a totalitarian empire that makes enemies with the world. It is clear which side Mr. Wooten is on.

Israel is not our friend, and never has been. They violently attacked the Liberty in the Mediteranean back in the 60’s, their hostile lobbying group AIPAC acts as an agent of a foreign government without having to register as one and virtually controls the foreign policy votes of our congress (but all are too afraid to discuss this). We pay for 20% of their defense budget every year. We fight their wars for them. We invaded Iraq on behalf of them and their desires to control the Middle East. Every bomb that Israel drops says “courtesy of the US” on it and everyone is the world knows it.

When are we as a country going to wake up and realize that the worst thing this country (and one of our worst presidents - Wilson) ever did was getting behind the Balfour agreement of 1917 that promised a Jewish homeland in Palestine. The British never intended to displace the current residents, but the disasterous results that have befallen the arab and palestinian residents of the area since then and especially since 1948 have drawn the US further and further into a conflict that we should have no part of.

If you are one of those wackos that think these happenings are the greatest thing to happen to mankind since Christ’s last appearance on earth, then you need to go back and read more of the new testament than the book of revelation. Our president is crazy, his foreign policy is crazy, and we americans are all going to suffer tremendously if this situation is allowed to escalate.

By Ugotta B. Kidding

July 25, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

JK: I’ve got to see a couple of clients but I couldn’t leave before letting you know how moronic that last sentence was. I’d love to see such “peaceful” folks as yourself living in the Northern communities of Israel while the rockets rain down. I’d like to see how much you “loved your neighbor” then. Those are pretty words from 5000 miles away while your lilly white A$$ is safe and sound. Then you might have a view more like “modern Republican Christians” with all that “nasty hate” that you proclaim us to have. But then it’s not “nasty hate” JK, it’s letting the people of Israel defend themselves, something that liberals like you WOULDN”T KNOW A THING ABOUT!!!

By Chan

July 25, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

Why isn’t there more talk of the radical all female terrorists, the so called “herbollah”? My understanding is that they cannot be searched by others due to customs in the region. It’s a real danger.

By JK

July 25, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

Those are pretty words from 5000 miles away while your lilly white A$$ is safe and sound.

Yeah, ditto for the “nuke ‘em all and let God sort ‘em out” rhetoric. Since people like YOU are my neighbor here in Georgia, yes I understand how difficult the idea of loving you really is.

By Ugotta B. Kidding

July 25, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this

Whoa JK…I thought you loved your neighbors, yet here you are attacking a nice neighbor like me. That’s a little hyprocritical, isn’t it? Can’t we “negotiate”? After all, I don’t want to “nuke” you. I’d just suggest that such lilly white’s as yourself stick your heads in the commode, pull the handle, and flush-out some of that liberal trash that’s preventing you all from thinking clearly and rationally!

By JK

July 25, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this

That’s IT! I’m tired you you misquoting me all the time. I will NOT be bringing my potato salad to your barbeque this weekend! Give me back my hedgetrimmers dammit, tell your wife to stop boring me about your bad sex life, and find someone else to feed your retarded, smelly old cat while you’re out of town!

By Ugotta B. Kidding

July 25, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry, I thought we were doing swell! We can negotiate JK cause damn I love your potato salad. Did my wife really tell you ‘bout my “problems”?

By seeing through the smoke

July 25, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this

I’ve been lurking off and on today and I’ll admit, I’m a bit undecided about how exactly to handle this situation. I support Israel’s right to defend itself; but I’m not sure we have a right to interfere in the rights of sovereign nations (like Iran and Syria). I had hoped a little enlightenment from the deeper thinkers on this blog and I am sorely disappointed.

Calling it WWIII sounds like hyperbole, so do the “nuke ‘em all” comments I’m seeing. Diplomacy sounds like a real waste of time and energy (we’ve been negotiating for 50 years now). No one seems to have another option. Maybe that’s why we can’t solve this problem.

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

JK and Ugotta,

Please tell me that yall live well outside of the city. I don’t want to be anywhere near nukes, negotiations, swirlies, or frustrated housewives.

By On the other hand:

July 25, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

I don’t think most citizens who have already thought this is the beginnings of WWIII gives a hoot that it is an election year. It is just that, an how clever of Iran to keep the eyes of the west off their nuclear arsenal and the fact that they are beefing up more bombings in Iraq. It serves their masterplan well that we are having to spread our attention elsewhere. The left is in denial as usual and time will only have to pry their eyes open. I see the children hurting. I know that ours will someday if we don’t stand firm in our stance on terrorism. You political office wannebe’s are missing the world’s reality and one day it will come back to haunt you. Get past the Bush bashing and take a long hard look at what the strategy of our enemies. Those sixty thousand Hezbolla terrorist are brothers, fathers,cousins to the Lebanese, Syrians, and Iranians. To expect the Lebanese Army to do away with their roudy relatives is naive and unrealistic. Israel will have to do it for them. Israel will prevail and Iran will be still irritated to the point of causing further upheaval in the Middle East. Stay tuned, because this is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

By Ugotta B. Kidding

July 25, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

Hey I hear you Liberal…Speaking of wives, If your wife’s knocking on the front door and your dog’s barking at the back door who do you let in first? YOUR DOG, at least HE will shut up when you let him in!!!

By Realist

July 25, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

At this point, I dont care if my neighbor loves me, I care if he is attending flight school and building bombs in his basement ok.

My statement regarding having the right people in office stands. If the democrats can put a candidate on the podium that I felt could lead us through this dangerous time in history, I would vote for him. But that candidate doesnt exist because they are all too busy pandering to people like JK who think we can all “love” each other through these trying times and think the answer to every question is to do the opposite of what President Bush does. Bush has failed on many levels, and I wont hate seeing him go. But he has been the right man for the job regarding the war on terror. There is NO DOUBT in my mind that we would have already suffered numerous additional attacks if not for his creative and controversial programs to place controls and surveillence on some of these idiots. He is a straight shooter, right or wrong, and I will take that over a two-faced, rubber spined, hippie draft dodger who wants to “love” and appease everybody.

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this

@Ugotta

Oh so true. You just gotta make sure that you’re in shape to nod your head for the next hour so that she’ll think that you’re really listening.

By clarkslawga

July 25, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this

Fake British Guy AKA TFTT,

Stopped back by the office and saw that, true to form, you just don’t get it.

Sneer, laugh, do what you want. But you and I will NEVER debate politics as you are incapable as long as you continually lie about who you are and continually resort to the sort of abuse you whine and cry about others using. Face it you’re a punk, and my punk at that.

The fact is that you may find this “pointless, puerile personal bollocks” but I am quite enjoying myself. And I am a bit of a control freak. After all, I am controlling you at this very moment.

I’ll make a deal with you. Come clean about the fact that your Brit Boy thing is a ruse, a character designed to make you feel important (The Conservative Englishman here to set us ignorant Yanks straight. As if that is not transparent) and I’ll go away.

And as I predicted your pathetic use of Brit Speak is at an all time high. Feeling a little desperate are we. Keep it up; you might fool a few people.

As for keeping my “pathetic, compulsive need for wanker like hectoring for [my] fellow inpatients”, I think I’ll keep on like this. Watching you pitch little fits now and then is actually quite entertaining. B***h.

Time for the Truth: make a copy of with the intent to deceive; “he faked the signature”; “they counterfeited dollar bills”; “She forged a Green Card” [syn: forge, counterfeit]

I’ll just Bugger off now……Fake.

By Ugotta B. Kidding

July 25, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this

Sorry ladies. Just a little “redneck” humor. Yeah Liberal, I talk big til my wife gets home! I know how to say, “Yes dear!”

By clarkslawga

July 25, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

Oh and the @ anal loserga.

Cute. Not particularly creative, but Cute. But what can I expect from a guy whose whole goal in life is to pretend that he’s a Brit..

Gotta go make more money. More tomorrow. I know you can’t wait.

I’ll sod off now………fake.

By Barbara

July 25, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

Alright Liberal and Ugotta. I’m gonna let you in on a little secret. All that time y’all are nodding your heads and saying “yes dear” without really listening, we’re telling you about all the ways we’re going to spend your money. And guess what? When you nod and say “yes dear”, well, that’s all the permission we need. Gotta go - shopping to do…..

By Realist

July 25, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

See thru the smoke, The original sentiment was never “Nuke ‘em All”. There were some discussions about a tactical nuclear solution to a growing and escalation situation in the Middle East. I assure you it is on the table as an eventual option based on certain events. Go back and read thoroughly before spreading the “Nuke ‘em All” hyperbole yourself.

By Ugotta B. Kidding

July 25, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

Barbara…YES DEAR!

By Realist

July 25, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

Ahmmm, Barbara, Ugoota, Liberal, happy hour is still a couple of hours away. The grown ups were talking here if you dont mind…

By Ugotta B. Kidding

July 25, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

Hey Realist, how ya doin’? Jim assured us it’s okay. He said there’s “plenty of ink”.

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

@Barbara,

Whatever you say, dear.

By seeing through the smoke

July 25, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

Realist — I used the “nuke ‘em all” comments as an example of the right’s hyperbole. The left’s “make love, not war” type of comments are of a similar vein and not helpful. I should have been more consistant in my examples, that failure would be mine.

So tell me, since you call yourself a realist, what do you realistically believe that a military solution won’t lead to the “harshtruth” solution of genocide?

By Barbara

July 25, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

Okay Realist. While I’m out shopping, I’ll pick up a SENSE OF HUMOR for you.

By rarringt

July 25, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

It’s disappointing and alarming to see folks calling for the nuclear solution to solve the so-called “Arab problem.” That’s like the nazis calling for the holocaust as the best way to solve the “Jewish problem.”

Earlier, TFTT (or a kindred spirit) said denounced liberals for wanting to negotiate from a distance. Is that worse than eradicating entire peoples because they’re not doing what we want them to?

What kind of ideals are we espousing? Embrace democracy and freedom, under pain of death?

It’s one thing to discuss military action, but not to the point where genocide becomes a viable solution. That’s monstrous.

Keep in mind that these conflicts predate Islam, Christianity and Judaism, and date back to when Baghdad was the first western city (it was called Ur). The battles then were over trade routes and rights, as the Middle East has historically been at the trade crosswinds of the world. Today, as for the past century, it’s about oil. That area has been a battleground for the Sumerians, Eithiopians, Persians, Egyptians, Babylonians, Israelites, Macedonians, Greeks, Romans, Carthaginians, Syrians, English, French, proto-Germans, Moors, Byzantines, Italians, Turks, Nazis, Baathists, Israelis, Jordanians, Iraqis, Iranians, coalition countries in the first persian gulf war, and finally, Americans.

Like basically every other war in history, these battles are over money (in the form of oil rights) and territory. And the practice of using manifest fundamentalism in any faith to justify middle eastern bloodshed was, and is, always used as a pretext.

After all, it’s a lot easier to recruit a soldier if they believe that the conflict is an existential battle over their eternal soul, than to have them fight so some other person can enjoy what will be the payday of the century.

By Ugotta B. Kidding

July 25, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this

Woooooooooooooooooooooooo

By Ugotta B. Kidding

July 25, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

Actually the Woooooooooooooo was supposed to follow Barbara’s last comment to Realist. Go girl! Now Rarringt: I’m certainly not preaching a nuclear solution and definitely NOT genocide. But rather annihilating Hezbollah and all other such radical groups. Without them, you might actually be able to achieve a Middle East peace.

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

@ ga anal loser

I’m sure you are the finest control freak in all of Cherokee County bubbaturd. Doubtless your regular punters at Ryans and Shoneys just eat you up!!

I note your predictable,gutless yellowbellied, refusal to be mercilessly crushed by your English betters in a current affairs debate.

The fact that you are now psychotically obsessing over an intellectually superior total stranger on a bloody politics blog is symptomatic of ALL the myriad problems you face in life. Time for you to play Leonard Cohen’s Dress Rehearsal Rag just one more time!!

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

To get to Hezbollah, they need to be exposed, isolated, and marginalized. Drafting a NATO and UN resolutions that declare that an attack by Hezbollah is an attack by Iran and Syria will be very effective in exposing the roots and source of Hezbollah. Remember that is how Kennedy was able to have a face-off with Castro and isolate the Soviets during the Missle Crisis, through declaring that a missle launched from Cuba would be seen as an attack by the USSR. Right now, Iran and Syria are sitting safely away from the falling bombs on Lebanon.

Also, like I said before, reduce dependence on oil and encourage economic diversification and development in order to develop a middle class. People who live comfortably without feeling marginalized are way less likely to listen to extremist rhetoric.

By Chris

July 25, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

The most disappointing thing about this whole conflict is the condemning of Israel and all the talk of the Lebanese civilians killed. How do we know they aren’t members of Hezbollah? Do you really think they would tell us. And you don’t hear many in the media crying about the deaths of innocent Israeli’s. I wonder why? And why is the left so quick to call for a cease fire? Why not let Israel destroy as much of Hezbollah as possible? It will weaken both Syria and Iran.

By rednecks - America's Al Qaeda

July 25, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

Greetings - back for a a few minutes, this time from Regent Street just up from the Oxford Circus Undergound Station, LONDON UK from rednecks - America’s Al Qaeda.

Just plowed through all the armchair generals’ BS strategerizing, and the blathering idiocy of TFTT Time for the Toilet and her galpal’s Ugotta’s mutterings and stutterings. Makes my head hurt and I want to vomit, but I shoulder on, folks.

Anyhow, more blood, more dead in the Middle East - about 1000 civilians a week in Iraq now (based on relative population, this would be like 12,000 a week in the US), around 200 kids killed this week in Lebanon - should make you animals happy. Maybe if and when you ever get sated, the rest of decent humanity can catch a breath.

You bloodthirsty scum are getting the war you want - so what’s keeping you out of Dumbya’s KKKrusade- he’s doing it for you, and he needs a few million good men and gals to make his grand plan work.

More than FIFTY MILLION of you morons voted for Dumbya, you’d think the recruiting offices would be thronged. But, no, you Dumbya scum are nothing but chickensheet chickenhawks who think war is a fun spectator sport.

Anyhow, tonight dinner over on Edgeware road, I have a hankering for some lamb kebabs. Lots of Lebanese there, thankfully less bloodthirsty then the good rednecks of Georgia.

By rarringt

July 25, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

Ugotta,

How do you annihilate an idea? Intelligence reports show Al-Quaeda has grown in number since the occupation of Iraq. Unless you deal with the underlying issues, which are clearly more complex than we accepted prior to March 2003, any action to kill off militants just helps their recruiting efforts.

You can’t ferret these guys out. They don’t wear uniforms, and don’t have “I’m a militant islamist extremist ID cards. Ask anyone who fought in Vietnam. It’s a lot harder than that to identify the enemy, especially when most of the people around look at your presence as the problem.

I don’t advocate pulling out. Things were a mess prior to invading Iraq, but we put the elephant in the glass shop. We are responsible for playing a major role in fixing the problem.

By Realist

July 25, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

I guess I should have put those smiling faces around what I intended as a joke Barbara. It was a joke directed at seeing through the smoke who made it sound as though there was no intelligent discussion going on here and I surmised that he came to that conclusion because you guys, the children, were being silly. I apologize for my inability to relay my since of humor to that end.

As for the genocide issue, I simply dont see a eventual nuclear or atomic solution as genocide. Though my opinion is not as Gung Ho as that of Harshtruth, I do believe along the same lines, that IF the radical Islamist are allowed to continue on this path, while the world sits back and negotiates tirelessy but to no avail, that we very well could be faced with a nuclear threat here ourselves. That simply is not an option and must be considered and planned for. I agree with Harshtruth that it would not take a full scale assault to obtain the desired outcome. To the contrary, I think just as the world was shocked when we dropped atomic bombs at Nagasaki and Hiroshimo, so too would the world be shocked if we strategically wiped out areas in Iran and Syria. If the US did make that first move, I personally believe it would quickly bring many to the table who have previously declined to do so, and would command respect from many around the globe at our willingness at ALL COST to protect our way of life in the US. Im no expert, Im just a an average citizen who votes who doesnt want to live in fear of my children being blown up when they go to the movies.

By Shannon

July 25, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

World War III? Bullsh*t! Just more fear-mongering from Fox News and the Bush administration.

By Shannon

July 25, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

World War III? Bullsh*t! Just more fear-mongering from Fox News and the Bush administration.

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this

Denouncing liberals is as American as apple pie - though not the vile ubiquitous kind caked with bloody cinnamon!!

The point is that bleeding liberals have little clue how to negotiate as we’ve seen with sick Willie’s crew, including the poisonous dwarf Madelaine Notverybright - and with Bush its either the liberal way or hours of petulant screeching on CNN and MSNBC!!

THis is NOT about money or territory. The Israelis have NO desire to permanently occupy Lebanon - they could have ‘liberated’ far more than they did in 1982 etc - and still occupied it today , if they wanted. Its simply about their security and the issue of imperious Iranian aggression/terrorism and Syrian imperialism/terrorism.

I object to the seemingly ‘racist’ use of English in your little list - it was we British, … you bigotry (smirk) excludes those brave Scots, Welsh and Ulstermen who also helped subjugate what became Iraq and Jordan!! Most liberal Americans are just too stupid to realise that English and British are NOT interchangeable politically and historically!!

By clarkslawga

July 25, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

Poor old Fake British guy TFTT,

You just are not getting it. And that is the best part. It’s what makes this fun.

Nice smear of all of Cherokee County, but that’s not where I happen to be. Guess again. And Ryan’s and Shoney’s?! Is that the best you’ve got?

As for my “predictable, gutless yellowbellied, refusal to be mercilessly crushed by [my]English better in a current affairs debate” didn’t you read earlier that your politics are not the basis of this. I have no need to debate you as I can just listen to your hero Hannity and know everything you think. Not going to waste my time wading through your fake British speak so you can parrot what you heard on the radio and TV. Got all of those “myriad of problems [I] face in my life” to deal with.

And feel free to believe that you are my intellectual superior. Just as most of your abuses and assertions, you have nothing to back that up but your own fantasies. I’d leave scorched earth where I found you, you intellectual pygmy. But then again, you’ll never get the chance to try.

I am impressed you have heard of Leonard Cohen. But you probably think he’s British too.

Keep it up, fake….I’m buggering off. (or is it sodding, I keep forgetting)

Fake.

By getalife

July 25, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this

World War III is not all combat.

Thinking wrong again Jim.

I guess you are one of the wingnuts giddily getting ready for the rapture.

By Chris

July 25, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

Shannon, glad to see you put show much thought into your posts. So is it fear mongering when Wolf Blitzer calls it WWIII? Or do you only point out things that fit your political persuasion?

By Barbara

July 25, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this

Realist, Ah, I see…… perhaps while I’m out I’ll have my sense of humor tuned up :-)

Truth is, this is quite a perplexing problem. I have to agree with Jim though - Let Israel kick the snot out of Hezbollah. I think it’s long over due. But how do we keep peace in that region? Who knows. According to the Bible there never will be peace over there. It’s a depressing thought. So, unfortunately, I have to resort to just kidding around. I don’t think this one will ever be solved…..

By rednecks - America's Al Qaeda

July 25, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this

Our gal TFTT is right - the Scots, Welsh, and “Ulstermen” (what they called hillbillies before they sent them to America) have been doing the killing and wet work for their masters the English since the days when Edward I and his nobles used to claim the brideprice.

“I say old chap, would you mind going to America - Africa - India wherever and fight and live like a junkyard dog, while I stay home here and have sex with your wife and sisters?”

“Cheers!”

By Ugotta B. Kidding

July 25, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this

Redneck: If enough folks ignore you, you’ll slither away. Your Bulls* idiotic rantings and antics, that you can’t even seriously believe, have grown extremely OLD in the short time I’ve been blogging here. It’s the same old wornout liberal blabbering day in and day out. Nothing new, just more B.S. Only liberal morons like yourself would recognize it as anything resembling humor. You re not funny! You’re a pitiful, disgraceful A*******hole! So get lost loser!!!

By Mid-South Philosopher

July 25, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

Hi, Jim,

I arrived on here late today. The rhetoric ranges from the thoughtful to the absurd, from the humorous to the depressing, and from the enlightened to the “blinded by the light.”

I think we have been in W. W. III for sometime now. The Congress, of course, being composed of such as it is, hasn’t “declared” war; rather, it has “passed a resolution” authorizing the President to use armed force. Is that in the Constitution?

Be that as it may, since W. W. II (the big one), we have attempted to fight our wars “humanely.” That is to say that we have to be particular not to kill too many of the enemy, not to question them too severely, and heaven help us if we don’t see to it that their various religious jots and tittles are observed.

About 142 years ago, a fellow named Billy Sherman visited our part of the country while we were engaged in another “undeclared” war…one that was authorized by “resolution” if you will…and his philosophy was:

“I tell you, war is hell…My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inner most recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.”

Less than a year after his visit, the “war” was over.

Could there be a lesson there somewhere?

By rarringt

July 25, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

Those living in middle ages Jerusalem didn’t know what an “Ulsterman” was. They just knew the guy with the crossbow and two-handed sword who just killed their grandmother was “an English.”

But you know better than that.

Of course it’s about money and territory. It almost always is. Follow me now: Syrian and Iranian imperialism is about…the acquisition of new territory…which will increase their overall economy…which will result in even more power and influence in the region and beyond.

And, btw, your vitriol about my (or anyone else’s “liberalism”) has no basis on the validity of my position, and frankly is pretty transparent and more than a bit pathetic. If it’s meant to get a rise out of me, you’re wasting your time. If it’s meant to be self-validating for you, then I truly pity you. Either way, it’s unnecessary in a civil, and otherwise informative, discussion.

Sticks and stones, my dear….

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this

Redneck … please do VOMIT - just make sure you also asphyxiate and the Fulton County trash pick up team will catch you next time!!

By rednecks - America's Al Qaeda

July 25, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

Mid-south, the rednecks won. They went home, started a terrorist organization called the KKK, eliminated the Feds from the south in 1876, and restored their perverted society for almost another 100 years.

By Liberty

July 25, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this

…Speaking of Ulster or Northern Ireland (depending on whether you’re Protestant or Catholic), now there was an example of a “war on terror” along religious lines.

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this

Above post was mine. Sorry for the mistype (liberty for liberal)

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

“If it’s meant to get a rise out of me, you’re wasting your time” …

I just did - get my rise …

“You just are not getting it. And that is the best part. It’s what makes this fun”

I absolutely get it mate - but watching you incessantly post your obsessive witless bollocks is too funny - just like one of Pavlov’s rabid dogs!!

By rarringt

July 25, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

Mid-South,

Yes. According to the logic on the blog, Sherman and Grant should have killed far more rebel soldiers,such as Nathan Bedford Forrest who I’m sure some of the folks on here are aware of, as well as substantially depleting the population of white southerners, and then repopulating those states with proper-minded citizens.

By utterly eradicating those people, slavery would have ended sooner, and Jim Crow would likely have never gotten a foothold. Of course, most of the posters of southern ancestry probably would have never been born. But at least Sherman would have made his point.

By Realist

July 25, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

Rarringt, Im stunned at your last bullet point. So its your stance that the US govt should reward those who threaten its people and its allies? That is not the way of this country and certainly not of this President and its why I support him as did the majority of the voters. That is a slap in the face to all those who have died fighting for our freedom I would say.

By Ugotta B. Kidding

July 25, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

Rarringt: I hope that Israel or our forces will get rid of the Iranian nuclear weapons or the possibility thereof. Are you serious that Lebanon can “hunt down Hezbollah”? It doesn’t matter what kind of incentives you give Lebanon THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN! Hezbollah is much too powerful and embedded for the weak Lebanese government to do anything with. I might just agree with your Iraq idea. I don’t think those people will ever be able to live together in a “democracy”. Surely you jest about trading with Iran, North Korea, and Cuba. Eventually, I think they will go the same way as the old U.S.S.R. and fall.

By Realist

July 25, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

That was a helluva of mistype. Liberal and Liberty are definately at two different ends of the spectrum! :)

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

Realist,

Nicely played :)

…and using nukes isn’t realistic.

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this

Rarring seems to be another one of these vile, “reasonable” liberal lite moderates whose naive world view will see us all fried in a mohammedan nuclear strike, but at least we can all shuffle off the mortal coil, smugly knowing that we weren’t the nasty beastly aggressors!!

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

Actually, trade is a good propaganda tool. I think that it could open those countries up as with China and the USSR. Coca-Cola, designer jeans, and McDonald’s are sometimes more effective then a well-stocked arsenal.

By ckt

July 25, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

Loretta - “Peace and prosperity to Iraq….” I think we can all agree, regardless of our opinion on the war itself, that this statement is a bit absurd. I am not sure where you are getting your opinions from, but it may help to read the news (even FauxNews is not this rosey!).

However, this ridiculous statement does bring up an interesting point - about the logic of most of the debate on here. I can say proudly that I have been against the war from the start, and that in my opinion things have only gotten worse. I can say that I believe Israel has the right to defend itself, HOWEVER, I also believe it has overreacted and caused more trouble than the initial attack warrented. However, as a person, I am willing to have discussion. Part of the problem with this board Jim is the evident lack of that. This board is primarily opinion, with very little fact and thought thrown in.

How about we all try to think for a bit. To state facts for BOTH sides, to discuss these issues as they should be, and not just toe the party line, whatever that may be…

By rarringt

July 25, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

Realist,

I appreciate your comment. From my perspective, it’s not a reward. It’s a different kind of invasion. For example, the Japanese, who engaged in empire building to increase weath and self-sufficiency, were utterly destroyed in WWII (to say nothing of their population loss).

Then they traded in trenches for Toyotas and suicide planes for Sony Playstations, and have since become the third most powerful economy in the world. Every now and then, even the Koreans and Chinese (who suffered mightily at their hand) will do business with them.

Pre-WWI Britain maintained control of the seas not for purposes of military domination, but to control the trade routes.

Trade creates communication. It creates a middle class out of hopeless poverty. It increases education and expectation. It is the lifeblood of any kind of democracy. It does not at all dishonor our veterans. Quite the contrary, the best way to honor a veteran is to achieve your goals of freedom, stability, and prosperity while eliminating or at least minimizing bloodshed.

By Mid-South Philosopher

July 25, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

Point taken…America’s Qaeda.

However, if I recall my history, the withdrawal of federal troops was part of a “compromise” (some would call it a conspiracy) struck in order to get Rutherford B. Hayes (a Republican) elected President over Samuel Tilden in the “Electrocution”…excuse me, the Electoral College.

Am I experiencing dejavue or something?

My point is that after Sherman’s application of “War is hell” warfare, the South never again invaded the north. The “war” was over. If we are going to prevail over the Islamists, the cost of their sacrafices have to become too great.

Here we have a problem. Believing as they do that martyrs go to “Paradise,” it may be that no amount of sacrafice will be too great. If that be true, then, we in the west are faced with an ultimate ethical question: To preserve our way of life, are we really ready to destroy a significant portion of a religious-polictical movement?

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

Amen rarringt.

By Realist

July 25, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this

Liberal, And again, I have the opposite view. I beleive the invasion of western culture in these countries is part of what drives their deep seeded hatred for the US.

By Ugotta B. Kidding

July 25, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this

Liberal: That’s assuming that any of these animals that lead these countries (Iran, North Korea, & Cuba) would let their hostage citizens have a “taste” of the outside world. Can you really see women in Iran wearing those designer jeans you mentioned? How about satellite receivers and tvs in North Korea? Don’t think it’s going to happen. But North Korea WILL take our nuclear technology…ask that great Demoncratic leader Bill Clinton.

By Shannon

July 25, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this

Chris,

The answers are “yes” and “yes”.

By Realist

July 25, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this

Again, please explain to me how you open trade talks with radical leaders who are threatening to “blow Israel off the face of the earth” and with madmen like Kim Jong? Do you continue peace talks while being threatened and while they continue to develope nuclear technology ? Please explain how this could take place becuase I cant see it….

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

Isn’t it curious how Redneck’s posts seem to mostly coincide with before and after summer school … I suppose he cant stay too long after kicking out time because the orphanage bus takes him back to his locked padded punishment cell and his beanie baby reptile collection.

By rarringt

July 25, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this

Ugotta,

It takes time to create and stabilize a true democracy. The bloodiest and most destructive war in American history, bar none, was the Civil War. It took another 107 years after it ended before minorities, women and 18-21 year olds could vote without being challenged (assuming you don’t live in Florida).

We shouldn’t expect the Iraquis to work out in 3 years what it took us three centuries to accomplish. Washington knew that, which is why he encouraged us to stay out of other folks’ business.

Remember, these folks are used to strictly authoritarian government, dating back to well before the Macedonians.

By Realist

July 25, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

We dont have the luxury of 107 years. We have maybe five before a terrorist nation or extremist group attains nuclear or chemical technology that can be used against the US at home or abroad. So again, how do we face the CURRENT situation, not the situation 150 years ago.

By Ugotta B. Kidding

July 25, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

Rarringt: I agree with your assessment of Iraq. But how many people will die before they learn to live together and our troops can come home?

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this

Realist,

In regards to Iran, I believe you are more correct. There are two types of anti-Americanism. One is what you see in western Europe where allies resent our influence economically and politically, while enjoying aspects of our culture such as movies, literature, and pop culture. The other type is what you see in Asia and parts of Africa where people are afraid of American culture and its perceived vices while embracing the promise of economic and educational opportunity.

However, currently in Iran, there are is a generation of young people who cannot recall the 1979 Revolution and secretly enjoy aspects of Western culture. Open trade with them can maybe aid this group in becoming more vocal.

By clarkslawga

July 25, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this

So if you get it, enlighten us all with your (fake) English wisdom. Why would I possibly call you out when there are plenty of others out there that made easy targets? Do tell, oh wise one.

(sound of crickets)

See that’s the point. You can maintain your arrogant assertion that you are clued in…but the truth is that there is as much truth in that as there is in your fake persona as the Brit.

And just like in the case of Pavlov’s dog I ring your bell and you salivate. (Or pitch a b***h fit, whichever).

As for your rise comment, what the hell did that mean? Perhaps my addled Yank brain just doesn’t get it….or is that you?

So, once again I take my obsession and bug-sod off…..fake.

At least you spelled witless correctly this time.

Fake

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

rarring … we Brits controlled the sea because that way we could sink even more French ships and steal whatever we wanted at canon point off the rest of the Euros and the third world

And we accidentally discovered Australia, which was a huge mistake!! which frankly we’ve never fully recovered from!

Running the world’s largest ever empire also had a small bearing on the Royal Navy’s dominance - but never mind - eh!!

You keep peddling that adult community college evening class history bollocks - it is quite entertaining!

By Realist

July 25, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

Again, I defer to my previous post. I dont think you guys grasp that we dont have the time it takes for a generation to come of age or to power. The situation IS AT HAND in my humble opinion. This is what scares the hell out of me about a liberal coming into power. We will all be glowing in the dark while they are still waiting on mindsets to change or regimes to lose power.

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

Ugotta,

I’ve met some Persian girls here in the States that look good in designer jeans :)

But in all seriousness, regimes like North Korea and Cuba constantly experience shortages. Aggressively persuing trade relations with those countries can open them up and expose the “hostage” populations to the rest of the world. There is no better way to communicate directly with the people than through open trade.

By rarringt

July 25, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

Realist,

That’s just Kim Jong Il posturing. He knows his regime is quite literally running out of steam. Some time in the next 20 odd years, Korea will reunite. South Korea is one of the most prosperous nations in the world, and NK is one of the poorest. You have to understand this is about face, and credibility on both the regional and world stage.

With nukes, he feels he has to be taken as a serious contender and credible force. Why else would they threaten the US with nukes? I mean, really? A low-yield tactical nuke going off in Alaska vs. the world’s only remaining superpower? He’s power hungry, but not insane. This is about posturing, and centers on very old school asian politicking. That’s why we refuse to do bilateral talks - our administrations are aware that doing so implies the two nations view each other as equals.

Regarding the other countries, I’ve been to Cuba on a student exchange. They hate american policy. They like americans. They love american stuff (i.e., clothes, music, goods, etc.) and the american dream (2.5 kids in the McMansion, his & her luxury rides, etc). I’m telling you, nothing creates change faster in any society than a real opportunity to prosper.

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

Realist,

You’re right. The situation is at hand. Aggressively establishing a position in the international community by formally acknowledging the link between Hezbollah and Syria and Iran, as well as opening trade, as advocated by rarringt, and decreasing dependency on foreign oil is very effective in marginalizing rogue regimes. And the time to act on all of those things is now.

By Ugotta B. Kidding

July 25, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

Liberal: If only Mr. Lee and Mr. Levi could see how well their jeans fit!!! DRDRDRDRDRDRDRDRDRDRDRDRDRDRDR

By Realist

July 25, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

rarringt, I will concede that could be the case with Jong and with Cuba. As far as the middle east situation (Hizbollah/Hamas/Al Qaida, I have to say that I agree with using agression to continue to force the issue. I beleive we should consider airstrikes very soon in Iran if the nuclear timetable isnt met. And I will vote for the candidate who I believe has the backbone to continue what we have started.

Good evening all.

By rarringt

July 25, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

I agree, we don’t have a century to wait for democracy to bloom naturally.

They understood that in Bosnia as well, which is why, 15 years after the conflict, there are still 20,000 NATO troops there and enough prepositioned equipment for another 100,000. Over a million people died in that conflict, which in the end will seem like a low number compared to what would happen should we leave the region.

If Redneck is right and 1,000 people a week are dying in Iraq, you can only imagine how that number would skyrocket without our presence.

As far as a solution, I’d prefer an Arab Coalition to take up the “peacekeeping role,” but that’s just not realistic right now. The most efficient thing to do is what Albright did in Bosnia: break up the country into ethnic federations, and patrol the borders.

By Joe L.

July 25, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

Realist - Two things. First, none of the actions you seem to propose will decrease the odds of something happening to the U.S. Don’t be fooled into thinking that’s true. If anything right now we are stirring up the hornet’s nest, not exterminating it.

Second, there is NO WAY - none, zero - that Islamic terrorists can defeat the U.S. Absolutely no way. We can only defeat ourselves and we are way further down that path than they could have ever hoped to get.

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

Ugotta,

…and plenty of men in the Middle East know it also. We’re talking about the land that gave the world belly-dancing (Shakira is half-Lebanese by the way).

By rarringt

July 25, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

…Hmm,

Good point. Nothing improves my perspective like watching Shakira doing a little belly dancing.

Maybe we should send Shakira to mediate. At least we’ll have everyone’s attention. :^)

By Realist

July 25, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

There is that cut-and-run attitude we know and love from the liberals Joe T. Run from the hornets, dont exterminate them, right? Well done. You have done your party proud. :)

By Realist

July 25, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

And BTW, nobody said anything about terrorist defeating the usa. That has not even been a topic of discussion. I personally would consider my wife and daughter being blown up at a shopping mall or crashed into a building while on a plane as defeat enough.

By Tray

July 25, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

The belly dancing might work. I believe that this is the start of WW III, but I am not about to blame my country for it. In no way did our ‘war on terror’ cause this dispute between those countries. The whole thing that drives their war is religion. “I don’t like who you pray to, you must die.” If you think this is the fault of the US, leave and find a better, more ‘free’ country to practice your religion in, raise your family in, and especially, find a better place to be yourself. This is America, and even though it’s not our job to police the world, it is our job to make sure we remain safe, and if that means eliminating terrorists who are targeting us, then so be it. I will die for my country in a heartbeat to provide a better life for all of our children.

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this

I’m glad that we can all agree on Shakira’s belly-dancing. It’s a great thing and a great way to unite all men.

Realist and Tray,

I admire your willingness to fight and stand up. However, nobody as to die yet. A lot of radical Islamists, both Shia and Sunni, are already willing to sacrifice themselves. This isn’t just a war on terror, but a war against an ideology and a movement. The most effective way is to isolate it from the sources of funding. And also to bring the economic growth and prosperity that UAE, Malaysia, India, and others have been experiencing in order to marginalize the movement.

And yes, in the meantime, don’t allow Iran to have nukes. Especially when the leader commits to wiping Israel from the face of the map.

By shrdiv

July 25, 2006 05:11 PM | Link to this

Folks,

Jim Wooten is a right wing puppet that parrots whatever Karl Rove decries in his daily talking points that are sent out across the country. I tire of Wooten and other Republican talking heads weighing in on American foreign policy as if they know what they’re talking about and they don’t. All they know is right wing ideology and trying to continue to manipulate the voting public into believing that the incompetently dangerous and disasterous Bush Administration/Republican party are our saviors!!

Most of these right wing talking heads/pundits have never served in the military and are chickenhawks.

If this is indeed World War III (which Newt Gingrich and Karl Rove obviously hope it is so they can scare the public into voting Republican in November), why would the American public opt to keep the Republicans in charge of this country? The Republicans, who have proven that they are incompetent, reckless, dangerous and haven’t a clue about keeping this country safe. Remember, 9-11, Katrina, corporate crime/corruption, Terri Schiavo and the Dubai Ports Deal happened on Bush’s watch!

Time for a change in November! Let’s clean house, folks. I’m tired of these right wing crooks and liars!

By Political Foreskin

July 25, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this

Nobody said it’s USA’s fault, Tray, but our presence in Iraq is the wild card that wasn’t supposed to happen.

Every middle east crisis blows over, until now. It’s because the USA is in Iraq.

Google Shia Islam. Try to understand what Shia is. Think Shia, and then you’ll know why this time it’s different.

We uncorked Shia by removing Saddam, who was a Sunni.

10 percent of all Islam is Shia. 90% of all Shia live in Iran/Iraq.

Hezbollah is Shia.

See the problem?

By clarkslawga

July 25, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this

Fake Brit or TFTT,

I’m out for the day. Now you can come out and bash me all you want. Bring friends, make it a party. I’ll be just as you like your enemies. Absent and unable to respond. Make sure to keep up the fake accent though. Can’t let that guard down.

Oh and do please pathetically ask for high fives from everyone again like you did last night. I particularly enjoyed that.

Call you out again on the morrow. I’m bug-sodding off.

Fake.

By rarringt

July 25, 2006 05:22 PM | Link to this

Realist,

Looked at your 3:26 post. Do you realize you’re justifying the use of nuclear weapons in order to achieve your goal, which don’t solely affect terrorists?

Do you realize that somewhere over there, some terrorist-in-training is justifying the use of nuclear weapons in order to achieve their goal?

I grew up in a neighborhood with a survivor from Nagasaki. Her recollection (she was just a child) was horrifying. I’m from Las Vegas originally, and recall feeling the ground shake when a small nuke was test detonated 100 miles away.

Nukes aren’t some painless solution. What about the hundreds of thousands of innocents who would be killed? Insurgents and terrorists don’t conveniently live in the middle of an otherwise upopulated part of the desert. What about the countless wounded? Those who are irradiated? What about the fallout, impacting people thousands of miles away? What about rendering the land useless for years?

Nukes are the most horrible weapons ever conceived, and should only be used as an absolute last resort against a state, and never against some group.

By Joe L.

July 25, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this

Nope Realist, I’m talking about REALITY. You are doing nothing to exterminate the hornets you are merely making them angry. But don’t like REALITY interfere with your non-realist world dittohead talking point regurgitation.

By Joe L.

July 25, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this

Actually Realist if the choice were for my wife to die or for our country to disappear into a fascist torturing police state, I’d take the first. Because true patriots are those who are willing to make personal sacrifices so that the great ideals we are supposed to represent can live past our own lives.

Of course most of the chickenhawk coward “patriots” on the right are just worried about their own skins (and big SUVS) and are willing to sell their souls and American ideals to preserve them.

By Jim Wooten

July 25, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this

shrdiv: Ouch! While I don’t encourage invective, I’d invite you to read some of the pros on this blog for pointers. Try the material out on Mike’s blog and when zingers are deemed to be sufficiently clever, please fire them up here.

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this

This bleating is getting really nauseating mate … Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved @ million US/Allied lives that would have been lost in a full invasion of Japan. The Japs had a deranged bestial emperor who had instigated the rape of Nanking, Singapore and countless other outrages. The Japs were fully behind him in the war effort. There was NO meaningful resistance in Japan. Therefore (collectively) they got what they desereved in the interest of US/Allied lives. Liberals like you always bleat about the US - and often (implicitly if not explicitly) excuse US enemies.

Using a handful of carefully targeted battlefield range nukes on the entire Iranian and Syrian leadership would stop much of this very quickly. Cowardly headless chicken terrorists knowing they would be next would think very carefully about continuing something they couldn’t win or have too much effect on. Destroying them completely is the ONLY way to do this - pussyfooting around is pointless and will cost more lives in the long run!!

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

actually Joe its the chickenhawk left like YOU that are the vile hypocrites here … and its the Hollywood crowd that use the large SUVs and private jets etc and spoiled liberal housewives … not the average GOP type. Tell your wife how you feel about sacrificing her - what about yourself instead of your wife? - that seems a much better deal for all of us!!

Remember that the military overwhelmingly re-elcted BUsh … not the chickenhawk Kerry

By rarringt

July 25, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this

Exactly. That’s why you only attack a state, and not some nebulous group of insurgents/terrorists that melts into a comparatively innocent population.

Japan was different. Yes, we would likely have lost a million soldiers and killed millions of Japanese soldiers/civilians in the process. Here, the risk is several thousand soldiers lose their lives, but several million Iraquis live.

That’s the calculation that your beloved president should have been more aware of prior to invading. After all, war is not a video game.

Sorry TFTT, but no blustering of yours is going to convince me the children who happen to live within a 50 block radius and would die in such an attack “got what they deserved.”

By rarringt

July 25, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this

Calling Kerry a chickenhawk…hee hee…

With Bush, Cheney, and Rummy (not to mention Wolfowitz) to choose from, you call a Vietnam vet a chickenhawk.

Hee hee…I always knew the Brits had a taste for irony, but not to the point of hypocrisy.

By time for the truth

July 25, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this

the Japs “got what they deserved collectively” - like I said … but no one normal wants to see kids or innocents die —- but remember all those kids and the parents the Japs killed … war is hell like they say!

Kerry was/is a chickenhawk … read the Swift Boat book.

By Humbled by Courage

July 25, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this

abandoned; I apologize for the late reply. I had somewhere I needed to be.

It would appear that you and I are reading from the same page on this issue. I read an article in the “Jerusalem Post” this morning. It stated that there is one variable that could change this dynamic and present democracies with a viable option that could make terrorism less attractive as a tactic. The international community, the anti-Israel segment of the media and the so called “human rights” organizations need to present a united front.

Sometimes the simplest solutions are the hardest to come by. Why? I have no idea.

Barbara; Maybe my comment was not clear. I am aware that you were the one in support of the children and the method in which they dealt with their fears and frustrations. Sorry if it read otherwise.

By Liberal

July 25, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this

You can’t use nukes against Hezbollah because they are not a conventional army. Any organization that hides among civilians cannot be killed by a couple of bombs. Israel is finding this out. And I wouldn’t use them against Syria or Iran. I can’t even believe that we are discussing the possibility of using them. Preventing one regime from getting nukes does not entail us using nukes.

By Susan

July 26, 2006 08:47 AM | Link to this

NY Times: JERUSALEM, July 25 — A week ago, Israeli officials said their military had knocked out up to half of Hezbollah’s rocket launchers and suggested that another week or two would finish the job of incapacitating the Lebanese militia. That talk has largely stopped.

CNN.com: With key Middle East players unable to reach consensus on a cease-fire and deployment of an international force, diplomats were trying to come up with a face-saving statement, they said.

A U.S. official described Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice as being “under siege” but holding firm any cessation of hostilities must include a permanent disarming of Lebanonese Hezbollah militants.

Washington Post: Israel Suffers Heavy Casualties in Battle Arab TV reports at least nine Israeli troops killed in a fierce battle for a Hezbollah stronghold in Lebanon. Kofi Annan urges immediate cease-fire.

There is a lot smack talk going around this blog, chest beating and the like about exterminating Hezbollah, nuking folks you don’t like, etc.

Since testosterone is at an all time high, here’s a great idea:

Armchair Warriors Unite!

I’m sure Israel will gladly suit you up and give you a chance to kill some real live terrorists. Better than a video game, and think of the points scored!

El Al is ready when you are, boys!

By time for the truth

July 26, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this

I’ll buy you a one way ticket to Tel Aviv on El Al Susan - just so long as you promise to use the outside toilet immediately after take off!!

By DeeJay

July 26, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this

Wow !!! Is it too much to ask, for at least a temporary ceasefire ,so civilians can get out of harms way and humanitarian aid can get in ? . Is it possible that maybe Israel’s response is too heavy handed ? Maybe the accidental killing of the 4 U.N. observers yesterday sends a clear signal that Israel is out of control ? Doesn’t Condoleeza Rice seem gutless and slow in her response to this crisis and her insistence regarding “no cease fire ” clearly aiding Israel ? Just a couple of questions from a casual observer.

By jalepenoguy

July 26, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

Congratulations to Israel. In just 1 week they’ve managed to kill more civilians that the palestinian suicide bombers managed to do in the last 5 years combined. Now we know who the real terrorists in the Middle East are!

By Susan

July 26, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this

TFTT, you are too afraid to go fight for what you believe in. We see that.

You’ll never stand up and act on your beliefs, so instead you sit and ‘snipe’ from your computer.

But that’s what being an Armchair Warrior is all about! Big talk, no action.

I’m just trying to make a man out of you, TFTT.

Clarkslawga and I agree: fake.

So, fake, keep talking the talk but we all know you can’t walk the walk. fake.

Don’t see any of your compatriots ready to go either. You’re all a bunch of panywaists, aren’t you?

Because if current events and terrorism really bothered you, you’d do something about it. Instead, you hit the blogs with bold displays of unmanliness.

fakes.

And a tip of the hat to clarkslawga. You ARE a man.

By time for the truth

July 26, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

Nazi Susan’s latest hissy fit is hilarious!!

Your dishonest, ludicrous bollocks about armchair warriors is utterly absurd - but its real nice to see you biting so easily. Clearly there are many many millions of such ‘arm chair warriors” offering opinions all over the globe on all kinds of conflicts, not just in cyber space either.

The nutter anal loser ga and its ilk, like yourself, are typical of control freak cyber stalkers who psychotically target those they are most afraid of or envious of. huge smirk go on bite hard again!!

You and this other sad obsessive cant actually really debate me on the issues so you just cravenly hurl abuse. Its hilarious the way you now bring “your mates” into your little cyber playground to help you ‘beat up on me’.

Those idiots who enter a war zone unprepared and without the proper military kit/weapons etc are ALWAYS seen as spies/nutters and the military immediately round them up and ship them out. Some are arrested and jailed. They get in the way of the military and battle weary soldiers have to take extra, completely unnecessary risks, to grab up such idiots.

I realise that a DUMB Jew hating Nazi type? such as yourself thinks this is such a stunningly clever point, and there’s NO way to seriously respond to it - well love - as ever you’re completely wrong!!

By newguy

July 26, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

If the United States is trying is win over the common people of the Arab world, then allowing Israel to bomb Lebanon back to the stone ages is not the way to go about it. Of course, Syria and Iran is behind Hezbollah’s attacks against Israel… But these countries are also seeing what happens to a country that does not have the power to defend its self, total destruction at the hands of Israel. This is the reason these countries are looking for nuclear armament. Lebanon should be a poster child for what will happen to their countries if they can’t defend them selves. Israel went too far when it destroyed the whole infrastructure of Lebanon.

By Susan

July 26, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

For TFTTooth, with love from everyone!

“There you go again,

Looking weaker than a man has right to,

And making me laugh so,

So that all I really know,

Is that you are a fake, and too scared to goooooo!”

—Homage to R-AA, as I wrote this ditty for TFTooth/fake to the tune of “Here you come again” by Dolly Parton.

Too scared to put on a uniform, boys?

You too can serve! Cook meals at base camp, assist in medics quarters, drive truck, hump supplies, communications, the opportunities are endless!

We know you’re scared to death, so I offer some non-combat opportunities. Just think how good it will feel to help your buddies in Israel. And you can make up stories for years to come about the courageous stuff you never did. Priceless!

By time for the truth

July 26, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

The nazi cow is getting weirder and weirder …

I take it that your imbecilic “we” is actually the royal we!! - or does it just honestly reflect your growing multi-personalities?

Look love I am a completely sane English gentile living in Dixie. I am not much used to interacting with deranged Jew hating nazi types. Although very soft targets like you are much appreciated as an occasional entertaining diversion.

The IDF does not allow anyone to just show up and volunteer. You can do that on a kibbutz, which I have done several times. But that was when I was much younger and was not a property owner etc.

I suggest you become a groupie for the Aryan Nation - too late I forgot - you signed on for USA style goosestepping years ago!!

By Susan

July 26, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

Tforthoseteeththatarebadlyinneedofdentistrymuchlikethoseofmartinamiswhoisalsoenglish:

I found the best website ever and would like to share it with you!

http://www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com/

You’ll love it.

By Sohail

July 26, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

Israel can bomb however it likes but it won’t change a thing. Hamas and Hizbollah came into being because of Israeli policies in the region. We can go over these details forever and won’t come to a final conclusion. Why? Because Israel won’t give up west bank, won’t let refugees come back etc and so do other parties. Situation is sad and unfortunate but most awful thing is US stance on this whole issue. After spending some 400 Billion $ and lives of almost three thousand US troops, if US had achieved any credibility in the Arab region, thanks to reckless stance on Arab-Israeli situation we are back to point zero.

By Joe L.

July 26, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

“Israel went too far when it destroyed the whole infrastructure of Lebanon.”

If you think this is what happened you are WAY out of touch from reality. Israel destroyed a few key roads and the airport in areas outside of Hizbollah strongholds. In the long run Israel may help the Lebanese government a whole lot more than it hurt.