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Home > Opinion > Mike Luckovich > Archives > 2008 > June > 20 > Entry

Iraq memorial

By Mike Luckovich | Friday, June 20, 2008, 07:05 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Permalink | Comments (135) | Categories: Editorial Cartoon

Comments

Commenting is now closed for this entry.

By AJC/DNC Management

June 23, 2008 8:05 AM | Link to this

So much for that whine:

{{{{Iraq will award contracts to 41 foreign oil firms in a bid to boost production that could give multinationals a potentially lucrative foothold in huge but underdeveloped oil fields, an official said on Sunday.}}}}

{{{{“We chose 35 companies of international standard, according to their finances, environment and experience, and we granted them permission to extract oil,” oil ministry spokesman Asim Jihad told AFP.}}}}

Can I get rewrite!

~~~~~

{{{{How the candidates view the war, with the AJC’s analysis of each plan-Urinal/DNC}}}}

{{{{The Journal-Constitution editorial board says- The United States must withdraw, but Obama’s timetable is too tight. It will take longer than he suggests to complete a withdrawal that protects Iraqis and leaves time to train Iraqi troops to assume full responsibility for security.}}}}

In other words, McCain’s plan.

Geez.

~~~~~

{{{{Dodd, according to a Democratic leadership aide, went to Senate majority leader Harry Reid and asked to be placed front and center in opposition to the bill, in part, so that he could build vocal support for himself on the far left in the face of what should be a mounting scandal related to his pursuing and receiving a sweetheart mortgage deal.}}}}

Change you can count on!

~~~~~

{{{{James Hansen, one of the world’s leading climate scientists, will today call for the chief executives of large fossil fuel companies to be put on trial for high crimes against humanity and nature, accusing them of actively spreading doubt about global warming}}}}

So what about all the scientists and researchers that agree with the fuel companies? Will we be building a really big jail?

{{{{He will tell the House select committee on energy independence and global warming this afternoon that he is now >>>>>99% certain<<<<<< that the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere has already risen beyond the safe level.}}}}

That’s nice, leave that one percent of leeway so when temperatures plummet, you can say you knew that would happen. Some conviction behind the old beliefs.

By Copyleft

June 23, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this

Poignant reminder of what the Iraq blunder was really all about. But shouldn’t it be a statue of Bush thumbing his nose at America, or tearing up the Constitution?

By Shawny

June 23, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this

Obama Camp Closely Linked With Ethanol.

Within the text…

“And as befits a senator from Illinois, the country’s second largest corn-producing state, he delivered a ringing endorsement of ethanol as an alternative fuel.”

“Mr. Obama is running as a reformer who is seeking to reduce the influence of special interests. But like any other politician, he has powerful constituencies that help shape his views.”

“Mr. McCain advocates eliminating the multibillion-dollar annual government subsidies that domestic ethanol has long enjoyed. “

By Joker

June 23, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this

Lucko…we all know your feelings on the war by now and most of us at least partially agree with them, but if you are going to make a cartoon about a decision that has cost thousands of Americans their lifes, couldn’t you at least use Bush or Cheney and not take a jab at the average American soldier. I know you and most of your anti-war brethen have no idea, but our 18 and 19 year old soldiers are doing wonderful things over there. Please don’t denigrate them for doing something you would never have the bravery to do.

By DUBYA

June 23, 2008 8:32 AM | Link to this

Marines? Haditha? Not guilty? Such a sham. Read it. Read it ALL. Takes quite a few hours. They are culpably guilty as hell. For those few of us familiar with military justice, it is not unusual for the bad to be excused and the good to be screwed. The nation’s moral values decline daily and we become as lowly as those we criticize. But God Bluss Murcuh. Allah Akbar!

By IN THE NEWS

June 23, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this

McCain’s Boeing Battle Boomerangs

By IN THE NEWS

June 23, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this

The Top 10 Conservative Idiots, No. 342

By Good grief

June 23, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this

Dubya..cmon dude. The Marines went through the justice system. They were found innocent. I know the Keith Olbermann segment of America wants them to be guilty so badly to futher their own political agenda. And I am familiar with the military judicial system and there is a far great burden placed on the defendant than in civilian court.

By chaps

June 23, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

Luckovich hits a new low, mocking Marines who serve the country. The blood of heroes should not be lampooned. Most of those commenting here will have no clue why this iconic image should not be parodied.

By IN THE NEWS

June 23, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

Haditha victims’ kin outraged as Marines go free….”We put our hopes in the law and in the courts and one after another they are found innocent,” said Yousef Aid Ahmed, the lone surviving brother in the family. “This is an organized crime.” …..No one disputes that Marines killed 24 men, women and children in this town in four separate shootings that morning. Relatives said the attack was a massacre of innocent civilians that followed a roadside bomb that killed one Marine and injured two. Marines say they came under fire following the bomb……One by one, the cases fell apart. American and Iraqi witnesses provided conflicting accounts. The investigation began months after the incident, and many Iraqis who could have testified were unable to travel to the United States. Furthermore, several Marines were granted immunity…..The dismissals have deepened the victims’ relatives’ grief. Many say they feel deceived after having collaborated with U.S. investigators who came into their homes, collected evidence, took testimony, and ultimately failed to hold the Marines accountable…..While other Marines’ accounts have differed from his, Wuterich told the CBS News program 60 Minutes last year that he shot at five unarmed men outside a white car because he believed they were a threat when they started to move away from the car. At the first home they raided, where women and children were inside, he said he told his men to “shoot first and ask questions later”, because he believed the Marines were coming under “sporadic” fire from the dwelling…..Wuterich said that he didn’t consider killing 24 people a massacre and that he did what he did to protect his Marines from what he perceived to be a threat……This is how the residents of Haditha recall that day

By jethro bodine

June 23, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

“Whatever is good for big oil is good for Amerika!” says good ole Bush and Cheney, Amerika’s tag-team co-emperors. I personally think that both of them are perhaps the biggest danger to world peace that we’ve got going.

Bush himself drops our national IQ by about six points and Andi Dull kicks it down another 10. We’ve the damn dumbest country in the world.

By tom brown

June 23, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

I don’t think cartoonists should use war memorials as a venue or setting for a political joke. Why not draw the 911 plane crashes with some silly comment on the side of the planes? At any rate this goes to show howstoopid most political editorial cartoons are. No self respecting editorial writer would dare try to foist off on anyone that oil companies profit when the major costs of a gallon of gas are speculation, refining, production, taxes, & finally profit to the oil companies. This cartoon strikes out on all counts.

By Goldie

June 23, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

{{No self respecting editorial writer would dare try to foist off on anyone that oil companies profit when the major costs of a gallon of gas are speculation}}

TomB @ 9:22 — oh, poor wittle oil companies… are you a paid spokesman for Big Oil?

I don’t think BILLIONS of $$$ in PROFIT is anything to scoff at — how many other corporations rake in BILLIONS OF $$$ and still get corporate welfare paid to them by the gov’t???

By What a surprise

June 23, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

So for years the Dems have been crazy over campaign finance reform because they though the Republicans had too much money. Now that a Dem candidate actually has more money, you didn’t hear a peep from them when Obama opted out of the program they once held so sacred. I guess winning is more important than principals.

By FRANKLEEDARLING

June 23, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

Great cartoon on of my favorites yet. reminds me of an M.D.C album cover.

the art looks great

By jethro bodine

June 23, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

Yes, winning is all that important if we’re ever going to rid ourselves of our current neo-fascist warmongering administration. The world cannot afford another term of Bush.

By Midori

June 23, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

RIP George Carlin.

RIP.

By Big Suprise

June 23, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

Jethro..I guess its a good thing Bush can’t run anymore then huh? Although your line of reasoning is exactly what I would have expected.

By Shawny

June 23, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

Some of my favorites from Carlin:

“I think owning a gun doesn’t make you a killer, it makes you a smart American.”

“I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, try to do it in English”

“I think that being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, and does not entitle you to anything”

“I want to know which church is it exactly where the Reverend Jesse Jackson practices, where he gets his money, and why he is always part of the problem and not the solution”

“I think that the cops have every right to shoot your a$$ if you are running from them”

and my favorite, “I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some mid level government functionary, be it Democrat or Republican”

By Bosch

June 23, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Midori and Shawny,

Jay Bookman wrote an opinion piece today about Carlin - did you read it?

People are going nuts over there, but the way I read the article, his opinion was Carlinesque - I took it to mean he was giving him a compliment and people are too hysterical to see what Jay has done. Or maybe Jay is just being an a*****.

By Analchord

June 23, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

Like I said, I dont know when Carlin stopped being funny, but it must have happened when he took himself too seriously, as represented by all those quotes Shawny just posted.

Cocaine changes people more than pot. Cocaine is like an expolosion in your hear. Even one dose of cocaine through the nose can kill you and stop your heart.

Cocaine also makes you a miserable wretch, and you can only make wretchedness funny if you’re old and cantankerous, like Walter Brennon and “The Real McCoys”, and his, “GOLL DANGIT, LUKE!”

“LUKE!”

I can do walter brennan really good, no?

By Shawny

June 23, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

some good news from over there.

By jethro bodine

June 23, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Damn straight.

By jethro bodine

June 23, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Damn straight.

By Shawny

June 23, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Saw it, Bosch. I don’t get that Bookman. I know he is a way left lib, but I understand varying points of view. But Bookman is a complete idiot, and that has nothing to do with his political leanings. He is detatched from reality. Don’t know if his ramblings this time are a slam on Carlin, or what…hard to tell.

Carlin was magnificient, IMO.

By Big Suprise

June 23, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

The entire AJC op/ed staff is awful. Why are you people suprised by Bookman?

By IN THE NEWS

June 23, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

White House Shoots Down Army’s Effort To Increase Oversight Of Defense Contractors

IN TODAY’S TOON…..

ARE THOSE US SOLDIERS?

OR ARE THEY CONTRACTORS?

By getalife

June 23, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

“One out of every three Americans is suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of two of your best friends. If they are OK, then it must be you”

Bye George.

By Midori

June 23, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

Bosch,

I haven’t read the Bookman article yet.

Thanks for the heads up.

By Dusty

June 23, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Luckovich is a disgrace to the country and the military. He takes an icon experience of bravery in WWII and makes it a low blow liberal jab at oil producers.

Yeah, Iwa Jima is a big joke for people like IN THE NEWS, Lucko and anybody else who is too afraid to even fight for their country. Maybe he should do Obama posting a white flag on a mountain top? That would be more realistic than oil companies who are keeping us supplied.

By getalife

June 23, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

“Getting a story on the evening news isn’t easy for any correspondent. And for reporters in Iraq and Afghanistan, it is especially hard, according to Lara Logan, the chief foreign correspondent for CBS News. So she has devised a solution when she is talking to the network.

What wars? We’re busy burying Tim Russert and making him a saint”

Sure would like the corporate media to show what victory looks like in Iraq.

By Analchord

June 23, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Carlin was “splenetic”?

I think the New York Times is saying that Carlin fell victim to his own formula for comic success, that is, the shades of meanings intrinsic in certain words and the status a word enjoys in our lexicon.

He played with a razor’s edge of funny and mundane.

His later stuff simply wasn’t funny. It was splenetic.

Whatever that means. Somebody get Webster on the phone.

By M. R. Biggins

June 23, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

I didn’t like the toon on Friday.

I didn’t like the toon on Saturday.

I didn’t like the toon on Sunday.

I still don’t like the toon today.

By Analchord

June 23, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

The New York Times called him “splenetic”. I had to look it up. Then they wrote that “overt spleen” had crept into his act lately. I had to look that up too.

Did you know that spleen means morose? Splenetic is ill-tempered and peevish.

I knew I loved to laugh when I was a child. Jack Benny. Jack Benny. Jack Benny. (always say it three times, or you’ll bomb next time on stage guaranteed).

In the sixties, George Carlin made me laugh more than Bill Cosby or Flip Wilson. There was something special about George Carlin. I couldn’t tell exactly what that was because I didn’t smoke pot until 1971.

Through the seventies, his irreverence matched perfectly our drug culture. If Jimmy Hendrix was the king of acid, then Carlin was the grand wizard of pot, hands down. Cheech and Chong. Richard Pryor. The seventies had the best comedy, even if the music sucked. (sorry jimmy) There’s always a trade off, isnt’ there?

I dont know when Carlin stopped being funny. I think it was when he tried to perfect the nuances of word-phrases that rang funny. He did an interview a few years ago on PBS and he admitted that he wrote down words as he stumbled across them that he felt had some potential for that odd echo of entendre. I know exactly what he meant. Those words expose themselves to you for a second, and if you dont write them down, and you never do, (I dont know why, but I’ve missed out on dozens of them over the years), then they’re gone forever, and you wont get a second shot at them. Write down your insights. Write them down. They occur while driving. They occur while walking in the forest. They drop out of the trees, man. Write them down.

One of Carlin’s last books opens with a litany of oxymoronic odd phrases and double entendre’s that begins, “I am a hard this, soft that, old who young where, hi tech low maintenance, etc…” It labored. It didn’t work. It was too obvious. He dissected the words too far. He was old, and comedians cant get old. Comedy is young. We want our comedians to be childish. Imagine a nursing home patient who says, “Why do they call it a bedpan? It’s not a bed. It’s not a pan. Why cant we just use the little boys room like everyone else? I want to lay down something permanent and be remembered for a long time yet my nurse says I’m just a flash in the pan.”

Anyway, these oblique words never written down are pure gold. You see what you can do with them and you rejoice over the home run you’ll hi

By Bosch

June 23, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Another Big Surprise,

Dusty hates today’s cartoon.

By Gary

June 23, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

You are absolutely correct, DUBYA. Not so many years ago it would have been my distinct privilege to escort those murdering scum to Ft. Leavenworth for a vary long stay. Today’s UCMJ is a tragic, shameful joke.

By Ralph

June 23, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Anal: Interesting post. Good and insightful re Carlin. The Greeks thought that the spleen was the source of emotions, especially those of anger. And so it has remained in our thought processes to this day. “Venting one’s spleen.” Had my spleen removed in 1986 - my mother thought I was about to embark on some new and weird personality change, rarely having ever seen me angry. Re collecting & recalling one’s thoughts: For years I’ve carried a tiny tape-recorder w me for just that purpose - catching those fleeting thoughts/ideas.

By What a joke

June 23, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

Gary…glad to see you have decided on your own that the Marines involved in Haditha are guilty. Only respect UCMJ when it approves what you believe in huh? Go back to watching that clown Olbermann and reading moveon.org

By Midori

June 23, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

The problem with Crusty is that she just can’t handle the truth.

Oh yeah: in addition to living in some sort of self-imposed Bizarro World.

Up is Down.

Down is Up.

War is Peace.

Bush is competent. And he really IS a uniter.

We didn’t invade for oil. It’s just pure coincidence and ethical business practice that the oil companies have, um, “found” their way back into Iraq after a 30 year banishment.

By Dusty

June 23, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

Dear Bosch,11:41

And you love today’s cartoon, don’t you?

Of course you like it. You are one of these “I support the military” but little sneak attacks on them are more fun. It is sooo funnnnyy!!! How about that cartoon where LUcko had US soldiers roasting on a spit? Woohoo!!!

Have you even heard of WWII? YOU will be sorry to learn that Americans won and Germans lost. Now don’t cry.

By Tony

June 23, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

Dustmite: What the hell would you or a Duh scab know about serious military service or history? Go awayyyyy.

By Dusty

June 23, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

And poor Midori,@12:01

Who cares what Midori found?

It seems so insignificant….tiny…

Like mosquitoes in summertime…just a little bit of bother. ho humm…..

By AJC/DNC Management

June 23, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

{{{{By Midori June 23, 2008 12:01 PM We didn’t invade for oil. It’s just pure coincidence and ethical business practice that the oil companies have, um, “found” their way back into Iraq after a 30 year banishment.}}}}

So who was extracting the Iraqi oil while the oil companies were banished, Dearie?

Was it gushing forth on it’s own, landing in the pipeline just by the purest of luck and running downhill to the Gulf of Kuwait?

And we all lived happily ever after, right?

By Dusty

June 23, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

Tony macaroni,12:09

Italy also lost in WWII. Are you still angry too or didn’t you know?

By getalife

June 23, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

I found victory in Iraq.

A city councilman there just opened fire on our troops.

A freaking city councilman.

No wonder corporate media will not show us victory there.

Geez.

By Bosch

June 23, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

Actually Dusty I think today’s cartoon is kind of tasteless. Actually, no, I don’t like it.

You assume too much - but then again, I don’t expect any different from you.

You have a tunnel-vision kind of mind, very narrow tunnel vision mind.

But one thing that sets me apart from you - I recognize the cartoon as satire, you think cartoons are real.

Cartoons aren’t real, Dusty, but war is.

The Iraq War isn’t satirical or funny at all. More than the cartoon, I think George W. Bush’s actions in invading a sovreign nation for nothing is criminal, and pretty tasteless as well.

BTW, Why do you think I care whether or not the Germans lost WWII? What a strange and random thing to say. Another assumption?

By Midori

June 23, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

(((Cartoons aren’t real, Dusty, but war is.))))

Spot on, Bosch.

Spot on.

The more assumptions she makes, the bigger a$$ she appears to be.

You too, Andy.

By Dusty

June 23, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Bosch@12:32

Luckovich’s cartoons are expressions of his REAL thought. They explain what he believes just as much as speech.

Today’s cartoon is satire based on one of the heroic acts of WWII, raising the flag on Iwa Jima. I do not like making “fun” of a war where we lost not thousands, but hundreds of thousand of Americans.

You think going against Afghanistan and further insuring our safety by going into Iraq is criminal. I think you are a pacifist who will never protect this country for any reason. That too I consider “criminal”.

As already mentioned, today’cartoon is based on a WWII incident. That is why I mentioned WWII. You seem to favor all things German. Is that an assumption or just what I’ve read from you on this blog?

By Paul

June 23, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

ITN 8:17

ThinkProgress Headline “Bolton: Israel WILL attack Iran AFTER election.”

Bolton’s words from interview:

“IF they [Israel] are to do anything, THE MOST LIKELY period”

Seems like Bolton analyzes, ThinkProgress misleads. Hmmm, wonder why they didn’t have the same headline when Hillary said she’d nuke Iran and Obama used doublespeak to say the same.

Oh yeah. They’re Democrats. Even if they say they’ll nuke or attack a country that (criteria: never attacked us) they’re still “good.”

ITN 8:18

Generally speaking, military’s the last to want to attack. Civilians always speak positively from inexperience.

ITN 8:26

You’re just parroting that neocon dimwit O’Reilly who’s been talking for months and months about oil speculators driving up gas prices. Proof? Huh? Proof?

Anyone who listens to or parrots what he says…

Unless it supports your agenda, of course.

:-)

Dubya 8:32 “For those few of us familiar with military justice, it is not unusual for the bad to be excused and the good to be screwed.”

Care to expand on that allegation? Citing from recent cases - not going back to Vietnam or other decades-long ago cases, please.

ITN 8:34

This is beautiful. Much has been made of Newsweek’s slide. Wonder why.

From the first paragraph:

“Incensed over what he denounced as a taxpayer “rip-off,” McCain launched a Senate probe that uncovered cozy relations between top Air Force officials and Boeing execs. A top Air Force officer and Boeing’s CFO ended up in prison. Most significantly, the Air Force was forced to cancel the contract—saving taxpayers more than $6 billion,”

The second paragraph then goes on about the recent AF award.

Problem is, the circumstances in the first paragraph dealt with a years-old case where AF officials proposed a LEASE that would have been much more expensive than the current plan to BUY tankers, which is what the rest of the story was about. AF Officials went to jail and a top Boeing guy was fired.

So the lead-in to McCain’s “troubles” isn’t even the same story, except Boeing’s the common denominator.

McCain was the one to thank for saving the taxpayers from a multibillion

By Paul

June 23, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

McCain was the one to thank for saving the taxpayers from a multibillion dollar rip-off. I thought you were opposed to megacorporations ripping off the taxpayers with government collusion?

Bosch 10:45

NPR had a good tribute/interview with Carlin. He said he liked to find out where the line was - then step over it.

I’ll miss him. ITN

I like the links about gov’t waste of taxpayer money, ineffectiveness in running programs and attempts to shut down those who want to clean things up.

And Obama’s new proposals for gazillions in spending for new and expanded programs contain what safeguards?

Bosch

I hope the Spaniards stomp the Russkies.

By Copyleft

June 23, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

So, if our soldiers’ lives are being wasted stupidly, it’s our patriotic duty to SUPPORT it?

Welcome to the World According to Dusty… where saving our soldiers’ lives is high treason, and cheering for their destruction is the only measure of true patriotism.

Sheesh, you neo-nuts make it too easy.

By Bosch

June 23, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

First of all Dusty, it is pointless to compare Iraq to WWII because it was a WORLD WAR with WORLD support.

Also comparing casualties in any war in a futile attempt at measuring success or failure is pretty tasteless and down right disgusting in my book.

One thing you’ve never been able to coherently explain to me or anyone else on this blog is how exactly we are safer now than we were before invading Iraq. If you can explain it to me in a way unlike your typical rhetorical bs, then I’ll be willing to listen, but otherwise, don’t bother, I’ve heard your speeches and lectures before.

Yes, you are also wrong that I wouldn’t defend our country, I have always fully supported our mission in Afghanistan, too bad your war hero, Bush, does not.

Dusty, I can’t tell you what to assume, and not to assume about me, or anyone else, your mistakes are your mistakes.

I have to give you credit for being many things, but mostly being stubbornly consistent.

By Bosch

June 23, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

Paul,

Damn Russians! I couldn’t believe that game. I watched with complete unabashed shock.

The game yesterday was good - I always hate games to come down to penalty kicks - but if that’s how the Italians go down, then so be it!

GO SPAIN!!! But Germany will win - after beating Portugal, I have no doubt.

By tom connolly

June 23, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

Mike lukovich should stay on vacation permanently.As a former marine i was insensed by his depiction of the Iwo Jima Flag to further his agenda.The Iwo Jima Flag Raising picture should remain as a testament to those who gave their their lives and blood in one of the bloodiest battles of World War 2.Luckovich should be reprimanded and offer an apology to those remaining Iwo Jima veterans.

I am sending a copy of this E-Mail to all my marine buddies who i am sure will voice their displeasure with Lukovich and your paper.I recently renewed my subscription to your paper but will probably cancel

An Upset Marine Tom Connolly

By Paul

June 23, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

Bosch

I’ll go with your prediction.

Fri night tv was…. lacking!!! Hadn’t clicked with my wife there was no BSG - she was well and truly bummed out.

I’m off for NYC tomorrow early - gone a week - have some interests to tend to. Didn’t realize when I booked that’s the weekend our season tickets are for Spamalot. Aarrrgh!!! Then again, I had zero choice in the timing of this trip. Maybe I can catch it on Broadway. Somehow I get the feeling you’d enjoy that show -

AJC/DNC 8:05

“In other words, McCain’s plan.”

Even the most ardent uberlibs caught themselves starting to smile at that. Good one!

By Chesty Puller

June 23, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

I’m with Mr. R. Biggins, damn it. The toons suck. And this one’s even tasteless, with its reference to the Battle of Iwo Jima. More American lives were lost in that one battle than have been lost in Iraq. The Japanese fought the U.S. at Iwo Jima, and attacked at Pearl Harbor, over oil. They fought for oil; we fought for other and better reasons.

By Donovan

June 23, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

I bet old George Carlin finds himself in a bit of a pickle about now…

By getalife

June 23, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Its a classic toon. One of Mike’s best.

Waxman is on C-Span2 summarizing and stating all the fraud in Iraq from his hearings.

By steve

June 23, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Truly Tasteless- IF you understood honor and sacrifice, then you would know better than this

By Midori

June 23, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

wonder when Andy and Crusty will run out of alter egos?

That’s the fifth post using similar or exact wording.

I’m sure Mike gets it. And I’m sure he doesn’t care either.

Me? I’m going to ask his permission to put this toon on a t-shirt.

By Dusty

June 23, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Bosch,1:10

So much dilly dallying from you. I did not compare Iraq to WWII. I talked about WWII in connection with the cartoon and loyalty. You made your own matches.

You have said in previous blogs you would fight terrorists if they were at your front door. You have said you were anti-war just like Obama. And now you say you would fight for your country (if everything met yur approval, I suppose.) My assumptions come from your assertions.

Yes, I consistently support the government of the USA and always will. I even say the Pledge of Allegiance. I guess that makes me an oddball, according to you and other liberals.

Now go back to your BSG, soccer games and good German ale. I wouldn’t want to interrupt your serious endeavors.

By TW

June 23, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Tom Connelly - If this cartoon offends you, get a load of this.

Turns out the White House misled us into a war with Iraq! No kidding! And 4100 of our soldiers have been killed - including another today!

Make sure you alert all your buddies to that as well - I’m sure they’re gonna be pretty steamed. After all, it’s one thing to rile folks up with a cartoon, but quite another to needlessly kill 4100 of our best Americans. I’m sure you agree.

Go get ‘em, Tom!

By @@

June 23, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

Moley crap ml!!!! Have you no sense of decorum?

You depict the “oiliness” of brave marines?

A hemmorhoid such as yourself could use a little lubricant. No?

By MorningStar

June 23, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

By IN THE NEWS June 23, 2008 8:19 AM Conservative Government Destroys Atlanta Like Gen. Sherman Never Could

As usually a bit late for us WorkingStars. ITN and any of those who care, I hope you have had the opportunity to view the National Geographic video MASTERS OF THE ARCTIC ICE. Hubby and I watched this video last week. This is amazing. Believe what you wish, best luck to you and yours.

On another note, did anyone who cares see the CNN special regarding fuel alternatives? Brazil seemed to catch on quite fast!!

We are living in a NEW GEORGIA! Y’all go fish now and pray or rain. The Lord knows we need it here!

By Chesty Puller

June 23, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

Nobobdy misled nobody into no war, TW. First off, the causus belli came straight from the UN Security Council; second Iraq was engaged in regular acts of war against the U.S. and Great Britain; third, as to intelligence regarding DMD’s, some of it was indeed correct and other parts indeed (or apparently) wrong, but those portions of the Administration’s official reasons for engagement did not constitute misdirection. Finally, when you say that the Administration “misled us into a war”, who’s “us”? Were you misled into going to war?

Tell us your war stories then, won’t you?

By Devastator

June 23, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

WASHINGTON - Former rivals Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton plan to campaign together Friday in the small New Hampshire town of Unity, their first joint appearance meant to ease tensions over the closely fought Democratic primary.

The location, announced Monday, was chosen not only for the symbolism of its name, but because each candidate received exactly 107 votes there in the Jan. 8 primary that Clinton won. New Hampshire is a critical battleground state in November. Republican John McCain won the state’s primary in his unsuccessful 2000 presidential bid and prevailed again this year.

Former President Clinton does not plan to appear with his wife and Obama, ceding the spotlight to the two former foes.

The rally will be the day after Obama and Clinton meet privately Thursday at a Washington hotel with former Clinton donors. The former first lady will introduce Obama to her financial backers who have been slow to embrace her one-time opponent.

Clinton, a New York senator, suspended her campaign for the Democratic nomination earlier this month after Obama, an Illinois senator, secured enough delegates to clinch the nomination. “I endorse him and throw my full support behind him,” she said at the time.

Clinton spokesman Mo Elleithee said she will make the same pitch to her supporters that they should support Obama “with everything we still need to accomplish and with the stakes as high as they are.”

By getalife

June 23, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

“Milwaukee police said they have restored order but will remain outside of the Marcia P. Coggs Human Services Center after a crowd awaiting free food vouchers became unruly this morning.”

Ah, food lines like the depression.

Heckofajob w.

Resign in disgrace.

By Midori

June 23, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Mitch McConnell’s Senate Seat Now In Jeopardy

looks like the American electorate has gone into the janitorial business — cleaning up Congress of the awful stench emitted by the GOP.

By @@

June 23, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Dusty and anyone else who’s interested:

A quick little story in honor of a WWII veteran.

I went to a funeral Saturday - the brother of an older gentleman at our church. I had never met the brother.

When I show up, it’s obvious by the flag and the photos that he was a WWII veteran. The eulogy was phenomenal. Focused on his patriotism and how it infiltrated every aspect of his life - family, church, community.

At the age of 14, he and a couple of his friends, 17, had gone to a matinee where war footage was run during intermissions. They were so impressed with what they saw that they decided to join. They all went to the recruiting station, but only he was accepted. He lied about his age.

He was shot down in the Battle of the Bulge, returned to fight in the Korean War. Retired with 34 years in the military. Very humble…never talked of his heroic deeds.

On display were three black and white photographs. One in his dress uniform. One in his fatigues, and the one (largest) of which he was most proud….?

Marilyn Monroe cuddled up in his lap.

Thank you Mr. Jim! I may not have known you, but your sacrifice bound us together with the golden thread of freedom.

ml REALLY should be ashamed of himself for this toon.

By TW

June 23, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

Chesty - you do know those pictures of us landing on the moon are real…don’t you?

And if you don’t care about the soldiers and the families, I sure wouldn’t wear it like a badge.

Who needs the rightwing when you have al qaeda?

By Chesty Puller

June 23, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Didn’t know any of them moon fellers, TW, but I did know Joe Rosenthal who took that photo on Iwo. Ejoyed a fine brace of martinis with him and Tim Guiney up at Marines Memorial, which is just about the last place on Earth anyone’s ever going to forget the fallen and their families. When guys like Joe and Tim died, the Press died with them.

By Bosch

June 23, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Dusty,

I’ve also said in previous blog posts that I support the military efforts in Afghanistan.

I’m sorry that my world isn’t so black and white like yours. There are many complex issues in this world and national security is one of them - the biggest failure in this issue has been the Iraq War - and your war hero’s inept ability to capture - or hell, even go after - the ones responsible for blowing up the World Trade Center.

I’m sorry that my world view is rather complex and I don’t blindly follow incompetent lying leaders just because they say it’s a good idea.

Now quit lolly gagging and tell me how I’m safer because we invaded Iraq in a coherent manner without the usual Dusty rhetorical bs speech.

Can’t do it? Yeah, that’s what I thought.

You ALWAYS and consistently support the government of the USA? How was your support during Clinton’s years. How’s your support going to be when Obama becomes president?

By ervin mann

June 23, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

to all you McCain lovers what do you think when he said he was never proud of his country until he missed it asa prisoner what about him and the keating five none of ever talk about that wonder why ????

By Dusty

June 23, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

Thanks @@ @2:24

That was a good story. I hate to see that generation of brave people leave us. Nobody had to explain to them how to support your country. They loved it and sacrificed for it.

I find the National cemetery in Beaufort S.C. a lovely and peaceful place. So many interned there who served and fought for their country. I can stand under an old oak tree there and be by the grave of my father. My mother is buried beside him, my uncle and cousin nearby. The place is quiet and neat with green grass and small marble headstones for most. It is such an honorable place to rest. It is a place of pleasant sadness mixed with quiet joy.

So thanks again, for telling us about the man, who at 14, knew he was more than willing to protect his country.

By Paul

June 23, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

Well, the Saudis are a day late and a dollar short, again. Their worst-case scenario (and our best-case, even though many advocate policies to make sure it doesn’t happen) is for us to not need what they have.

Their announcement to increase production and condemn speculators, saying the true price of oil is much lower, won’t count for much. For although in the past prices have spiked, fallen, spiked, fallen - this time, oil got to a painful level and companies took action.

Ford announced it’s killing V8s. GM has one big SUV plant left - primarily produces the Escalade, many of whose owners are more gas price-resistant. American car companies are bringing to market fuel efficient cars to compete with Japan and Korea. Alternate power investments have mushroomed.

So what does a world without US reliance on Mideast oil look like? What about a world without US reliance, but European reliance? What do the oil producers do post-oil (although that scenario is a ways down the road).

Seems kinda funny. If “conservative” means status quo, and neocon is really, hardline status quo, then

seems the Dems in Congress, and many Progressives, are, in this area at least, quite the conservatives - refusing to permit fundamental change to decades-old methods, talking wistfully about a better future but holding tight to the policies that guarantee it from happening.

By @@

June 23, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Dusty:

You’re welcome! As an aside we were told that as Mr. Jim slipped into dementia, he would watch the History Channel non-stop.

He saw where General Petraeus was being promoted to Commander of Centcom. He said…

“Well they’re finally giving me a promotion to Lt. Colonel. I just hope they don’t make a big deal out of it. No fancy ceremonies and such.”

I could only hope that he didn’t see Obama’s MoveOn.org crowd call General Petraeus, “General BetrayUs”.

By Dusty

June 23, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

Bosch,2:42

Don’t make things complicated when they are simple.

Supporting your country is not complex. It has been simple ever since the Revolutionary War. Time for you to catch on. You are in the USA now. Your country is your greater family.

Iraq is the center for its own government now, not a center for terrorist activity. Terrorists tried but they are no longer popular there as they kill many Iraqis.

OH, maybe you have suffered a terrorist attack since 9/11 but I haven’t heard about it. Wonder why? Diplomatic relations? Chamberlain charm? Could it be that Bush has kept them too busy in the Middle East? Naw…you wouldn’t even consider a little appreciation or credit for your safety.

I believe Clinton was President when the World Trade Center was bombed. And he did what? Yes??

Go have your unlimited good times Bosch. Just tell the world how to stay safe without fighting. A noble objective indeed but seldom left with anyone to praise it. And..

How will I support Obama if he is elected?(An improbable thought!) Just like I did Clinton. Try to overlook his abject failures, his lack of morals, his impeachment and hope he will soon be out of office. I will console myself that there are only four years in a term.

I doubt that Obama would last even four years since he seems to be against most American principles which can only result in failure. If that is what you like, vote for it. I won’t make such a mistake.

By Dave Fratus

June 23, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

You have shown disrespect to the members of Marines, one being my son, with that oil co. flag rasing crap! Bush my be hehind the oil co. profits, BUT NOT THE MARINES! Pull your head out of your butt and go after the speculators that invest YOUR MONEY in the stock market!!!!!!

By Gary

June 23, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

What A Joke. I rarely take time to answer anything on this blog as I am rarely here.It is filled w inferior minds such as yours. 5 years deeply involved w the UCMJ. Overseas & in the States. Hundreds of courtsmartials. More than a hundred trips to Leavenworth. Have read EVERYTHING thus far released re the Haditha incident, which is most all of it. Depositions, statements, interviews, witnesses. Words put forth by those cowards given immunity. Highly qualified to make my own judgments/conclusions. Would you care to hear some truths and recorded details of the hundreds of American GIs I personally witnessed abandoning their posts on the front-line (Back when we had lines)and headed to “the rear”?? 30% of them even left their rifles on the line. I dealt w hundreds of them. Little couch-cowards like you and sissified others here are unable to imagine that such things take place - just as you cannot fathom the American guilt of slaughter at Haditha. You little boys have never seen anything in life, never been anywhere, never done or experienced anything. You are into your childish idolatry of military uniforms and locked into an ignorance of numerous dogmas that blind you to truth, fact, reality. Pitiful little inferiors who cause great harm to this fading nation. I should “watch TV,” little punk?? You should watch your mouth. Enough of/for you. Now you can show the other lifeforms here how tough you can talk. I won’t be watching. For I know you insects far better than you will ever know yourselves, Patriot.

By Bosch

June 23, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Dusty,

“Try to overlook his abject failures, his lack of morals, his impeachment and hope he will soon be out of office”

Hypocrit. You’re assuming the man (who will more likely that not) will not only fail even before he takes office, but lacks morals, and will be impeached - unbelieveable, well, not really from you, but nevertheless, - I call that complete lack of support and goes against everything you demand of me. But I wouldn’t expect less from you. Hypocrit.

Yes, Dusty, I’m sorry your world is simple - from simple minds come simple worlds. Enjoy your simple world view.

I believe most of the people who bombed the WTC in ‘93 are sitting in jail - they were apprehended, caught, tried, convicted, and still sitting in jail.

Tell me again how I’m safter now because of the Iraq War?

Got to run - later.

By Pete

June 23, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Dave Flatus (3:37) - Ohh, grow up and get a grip!

By Bosch

June 23, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

Wow, read Gary’s post before I left - um…so…..

Dusty,

What do you think of Gary’s post?

By AJC/DNC Management

June 23, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

{{{{“DukaKerry seems to be willing to say or do anything for the moment to advance his cause,” Graham said. “And his cause is to win the election. It’s not to change this country, and that’s sad.”}}}}

Gee, you reckon?

By getalife

June 23, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

MADD

By AJC/DNC Management

June 23, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

{{{{From where I sit, flip-flopping is an unbeatable addiction for Obama. For McCain, by comparison, it’s an occasional foible.}}}}

{{{{The flip-flops preoccupying them right now are on acceptance of public financing for Obama and on offshore oil drilling for McCain.}}}}

{{{{McCain’s policy change makes sense given changed circumstances. Obama’s is based purely on greed.}}}}

Gee, you reckon?

By R Brennan

June 23, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

I have 2 sons serving in Iraq defending this horse’s A@@ right to draw this type of garbage. I take it as a personal insult and a great affront to my sons and our beliefs and values.

By Paul

June 23, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

ITN

Sounds like your sites are following Bill O’Reilly’s lead. From early last week:

“Every time the speculators bid up the paper price of a barrel of oil, Chevron and other companies raise the price at the pump. This is obviously a rigged game and working Americans are being hurt big time. Congressman John Larson of Connecticut has introduced legislation that would make any speculator who bids on oil actually take delivery of the barrels. If Congress would pass Larsen’s bill, the speculators would be forced out of the oil trading industry.”

He even provided a link detailing the proposal by both of these DEMOCRATS:

Link: Democrats propose legislation to curb speculators

Don’t get me wrong - I think it’s wonderful your sites are finally jumping on the bandwagon. Better late than never.

By R Brennan

June 23, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

I have 2 sons serving in Iraq defending this horse’s A@@ right to draw this type of garbage. I take it as a personal insult and a great affront to my sons and our beliefs and values.

By Dusty

June 23, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

Bosch@ 4:03

I read Gary’s post. If ever I read something by a troubled man, that is one. He obviously has the famous”fatigue” often suffered by service men who experience terrible combat. He has heard too many “first hand experiences” even though I presume he was in a court room. I hope he gets help.

He mentions Haditha which has been investigated over and over by the military. Every Marine has been exonerated. Obviously this one involved women and children, which one source has mentioned that they were used as shields by terrorists.

Anyway, I am inclined to believe strict military investigations before I believe something probably based on rumors, although Gary seems to believe what he says.

I suppose you know that one Marine Lt. Col. is taking legal action against Congressman John Murtha(D) who declared our troops “murderers” and “killers” during the Haditha investigations. I hope the colonel wins his case against such an addled brain as Murtha.

Decisions in war sometimes have to be made on the basis of far less being killed or millions being killed. Truman faced such a decision with the H-bombs against Japan. Perhaps the troops have to make those same decisions on a lesser basis with less time to consider. Let the terrorists continue killing us or kill them first? Nobody said it was easy and nobody likes it.

Obviously Gary is still troubled either by his experience or what he heard. Any way you go about it, there are no “good” answers. Wonder how Gary feels about the beheadings and killing of, not only troops, but innocent Americans & Iraqis? I wonder who investigated those actions?

Goodnight all…

By AJC/DNC Management

June 23, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

{{{{So, why, I wondered after first seeing the MoveOn ad, did I find it so … creepy?}}}}

{{{{I was having trouble putting my finger on just why until I came across a post by a mother of a soldier recently deployed in Iraq, at the Web site BlueStarChronicles.com.}}}}

{{{{Here’s what the mother of an actual soldier has to say about the remarks of the mother of the prospective non-soldier in the ad:}}}}

{{{{“Does that mean that she wants other people’s sons to keep the wolves at bay so that her son can live a life of complete narcissism? What is it she thinks happens in the world? … Someone has to stand between our society and danger. If not my son, then who? If not little Alex then someone else will have to stand and deliver. Someone’s son, somewhere.”}}}}

By Chesty Puller

June 23, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

Gary, Righter of My Lai,

Never encountered in all my days the plural form “courtsmartials”. Leads me to guess that while you haven’t made exactly “hundreds of trips to Leavenworth”, at least you’ve put yourself through something that convinces you that you’ve discovered the real face of war. And that your discovery entitles and emboldens you to call us, strangers and fellow Americans, vermin.

While in Leavenworth, Esquire, did you ever happen to visit the Army General Command and Staff College? You’d have remembered doing so; it’s always an edifying experience. But I’m afraid that maggots and the like are not very much involved. One of the many subjects taught there is military history, with a special emphasis naturally upon American military history. A few weeks of seat-time in any of those courses, and I assure you you’d be feeling like the maggot you’re not. Because you’re not a maggot, Gary, and don’t let anybody tell you otherwise. You’re an American.

By TW

June 23, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

Funny how the rightwing holds a cartoon guy to a higher standard than they do the president of the country. I guess if ‘w’ had offended a soldier in a cartoon he would have been impeached - but needlessly sending 4100 of them to their death was OK. Well, like they say, if you vote GOP and you ain’t making $250k/yr…

BTW, somebody tell Hannity his America sucks - the old one was much better.

By Chesty Puller

June 23, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

Dave Fratus, R. Brennan et al,

Some one of us ought to disclose to you that the political cartoonist Mike Luckovich, is an unrepentent and rather embittered old hippie. His backwater AbbieHoffmanisms stem from his nostalgia for that day when all great scary problems resolved into Love, or at least passing sex or at least free drugs and thereby at least some sense of some kind of sorta high purpose.

The overgrown Mr. Luckovich never has liked Business or the Military, two things about which he’s refused all his life to learn a single thing, so in this cartoon that offends you, you see one of the greatest of the graying hippie artists spraying his grafitti upon two old authority figures he always resented for making him get out of bed in the morning and act like a man.

He wouldn’t dare spray his mark on the Vietnam Memorial Wall, for example—-bad mojo, baaaad—-but p** on the last of the WWII vets is fair game to some draft/daft burnout who never could fathom what that statue means to people who were left defenseless against the next massed Pacific assault but whose Marines and Infantry fought in battles of shocking violence proving that they would never cower, never — how did our resident expert Gary put it? — “abandoning their posts on the front-line (Back when we had lines)and headed to ‘the rear’?? 30% of them even left their rifles on the line.”

So please understand, visitors to this blog, Mike Luckovich has no idea upon which he urinates.

By chaps

June 23, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

Why we’re safer:

1993- WTC bombing, Clinton administration. Response: criminal prosecution and jail time. Result: even bigger attack on 9/11/2001.

2001- WTC destroyed, Bush administration. Response: deploy military force in Afghanistan to kick Taliban/al Qaeda butt. Deploy military force in Iraq to oust Saddam and tie down al Qaeda resources in fight there. Result: no attacks in US for almost 7 years.

That succinct enough for you, Bosch?

By AJC/DNC Management

June 23, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

A Senator from Illinois, one of the corn growing capitals of the world, and he wants to cling to the same old failed energy policy of not drilling, gee, I wonder why?:

{{{{Obama Camp Closely Linked With Ethanol}}}}

Why, that’s not the Obambi that I knew.

“Change” you can count on!

By Paul

June 23, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

AJC/DNC

Oh, THAT kind of “change.”

cha-ching!

By The Wire

June 23, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

Washington - The McCain camp announced this week that much of the Senator’s babble can be attributed to the tightening of the Enron loophole around his neck.

By Hidden Valley

June 23, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

…to the Casbah, ‘throb, the Casbah…

By Marta Rails

June 23, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

Cartoon Grade for today: A-

That bit has been done to death, but it was timely so……The idea is that the oil companies forced Cheney and Bush to attack Iraq via the Saudis. We dont know who owns the worlds oil. We dont. The Saudis have to be in there somewhere, dont you think? Halibuton is Saudi owned, we know that.

But look at how hollow the evidence for war in Iraq was. Rocket tubes and a clandestine meeting? What were we thinking. Even if it was true, that’s not enough for a endless war, is it?

And bush is now saying the over there refrain again and nobody jumps up and stuffs it down his throat again.

I dont understand why Americans havent called in unison for impeachment.

Someone explain .

By N-GA

June 23, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

Chesty Puller: Mike was born in 1960. Hippies went out by 1970. Ergo: he was neither a hippie nor a draft dodger. He wasn’t even eligible for the draft when it ended in 1973.

Chaps: It is difficult to comment on your 5:38 without insulting your intelligence. Let me see if I can educate you with an equally ridiculous cause/effect…George Bush cannot pronounce nuclear in spite of the fact that he has an Ivy League degree. Therefore, George Bush must be stupid. Do you understand?

By Paul

June 23, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

There are constant, relentless posts about the general screw-ups leading to Iraq. And about the lack of proper planning once the initial attack phase was completed.

I’ve posted some of ‘em myself.

But: some people want to post, and repost, and post again on this topic.

What is now is not what was way back then.

My guess: Pointing out the situation now is a problem for Democrats. Look at their statements just over a year ago. I thought, regardless of what else could happen, Iraq was to the the premier, centerpoint issue of the election?

But: constant hammering of what was gives both candidates room to avoid a greater exploration of what their FUTURE plans are.

And that’s what we should be concerned with.

Leastwise, that’s how it seems this afternoon -

By Chesty Puller

June 23, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

N-GA, if you don’t think hippies weren’t born in 1960, I gotta load of really good sh!t to sell you cheap and fresh from the Islands. Hippies out by 1970, man? Not one DAY before the draft expired, Jan. 1, 1973. And then what do you think the by-then thoroughly commercialized subculture did, immediate cut its hair and put on pants suits and floppy bows and tassel loafers and head for the banks and the markets? No, man, a lot of them headed for journalism. Which was cool, because they were in the process of taking The Man DOWN!

You’re a Soviet plant, N-GA. Your Moscow briefings are out of date, and they weren’t all that good to begin with. Just try to enjoy your dacha on Lanier, and take care of your charge Luckovich as best you can, from time to time. He deserves it, after all.

By N-GA

June 23, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this

Paul (6:23),

I agree. But why do you think that no one wants to explore why we are there. I mean, if we went in to pre-emptively deal with WMD’s, then why did we stay when none were found? Did we stay in an attempt to validate our {illegal} invasion? The administration’s second justification was to bring democracy to the Middle East. Then why didn’t we begin with Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, etc.? Even Israel’s “democracy” is questionable since the “occupied” Palestinians have no vote (except in the recently returned Gaza Strip).

Israeli writers have said: “Either Israel gives the Palestinians the vote and ceases to be a Jewish state, or denies them the vote and ceases to be a democracy.”

Back to the topic: I believe we need to explore why we are there (in Iraq) in order to determine if we should stay. But that’s just my opinion…

By Paul

June 23, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

chaps 5:38

“Deploy military force in Iraq to oust Saddam and tie down al Qaeda resources in fight there. “

We attacked Iraq to oust Saddam.

Making it a main battlefield for engaging al Qaeda was an unforseen consequence. Which took us several years to figure out how to handle. The fact it now is has some beneficial effects - but they were not even dreamed of going in. State and DoD blew it.

BTW - if not Iraq, they likely would have been attracted to Afghanistan. But the likelihood of what would have happened in that country - well, we’ll never know.

By W stands for worst

June 23, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

TW,

You are exactly right about the wingnuts getting all their underwear in a bunch over a cartoon. These same people never uttered a word when the emperor Dubya made a lampoon video of him searching the White House for the WMD’s and laughing about it, everyone got a laugh out of that, except the 2100 soldiers who had died up to that point….

By TW

June 23, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

Those who fail to question the use of our military deserve neither the freedoms nor the liberties those brave men and women sign up to defend. The least the civilian can do in return for the soldier laying it all on the line for them is to ensure that they will only be asked to do so when the threat is real.

Those who failed to do so with regard to Iraq are not worthy of this great land.

Those who knowingly participated in the deception ought to be in jail, if not under it.

By AJC/DNC Management

June 23, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this

Paul: It is a toss up to which issue is going to cost the libs the election in November, will it be their mindless plans to pull out of Iraq or the non production of domestic oil supplies?

41 different countries of the world are licking their chops to get into Iraq and start doing business with them, this is not an indication of a country mired in an endless civil war or whatever nonsense the pinkos are chanting.

Not drilling for the sea of oil that the United States rests on is easier to understand, though.

And more painful to most.

By getalife

June 23, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

So, Charlie Black, the lobbyist for dictators spews another terror attack will help McOld.

Sorry Charlie, history shows they attack after the elections with new leadership.

McOld should fire his chief adviser lobbyist but doubt he will. Charlie brings millions from his friends.

By RB from Gwinnett

June 23, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

Bosch, in your stupid little fantasy world, we should only have gone after the bombers of Pearl Harbor and not gone to war with Japan. Try them and put them in jail??? After all, they were the only ones who attacked us, right? The people we bombed in Hiroshima had nothing to do with it did they!

When are you dishonest little socialists going to admit we were not attacked by a country or a group of 19 individuals and OBL, we were attacked by a religious sect centered in the middle east hell bent on our distruction. I don’t care if 51% of them were Saudi or Pakistani or whereever they were from. They were muslim and they want you dead. If you think you can talk them out of wanting to kill us all, please, by all means, go over there and talk to them. I’m sure they’ll be glad to listen to your endless drivel.

PS, I suggest you take your koran and your prayer mat with you lest you lose your head while convicing them not to hate us. Good luck and let us know how it goes!!!

And before you dimwits start the whining, the difference is the Chavez lunatics of the world haven’t killed nearly 5,000 Americans with their silly threats. These people have and they would not stop until this nation perished. You keep calling that fear all you want to, surrender monkeys, but at least do so with respect for the soldiers who provide you the freedom to do so.

By N-GA

June 23, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this

Cheaty Puller,

Reading your post leads me to believe that, in point of fact, you are the drug-addled, drop out from the 60’s.

Mike is just a Liberal…a political satirist with a heart, and a brain.

By Paul

June 23, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

N-GA

My impression: not too many on either side wants to really explore it. But there are a few.

I mean this in a good way: many get their information from websites - which look at events through a partisan lens - or from mainstream sources, which mix current reality with very little historical perspective or indepth analysis.

I think we still held onto our hope that what we saw as an essentially educated, middle class, secular Mideast country, free from the yoke of a dictator, would eschew religious fundamentalism, not revert to their tribal past, embrace self determination and serve as a transition model for other countries experiencing pressures from fundamentalists.

As with the tar baby, we couldn’t let go. And we were slow on the uptake to realize what we were involved with.

And by the time we realized al Qaeda had turned the course of the war to something we didn’t expect, we were even further committed.

So there are a lot of overlaying layers. Neither side is all in the right. Or entirely wrong. But we seem to be in an era of absolutist politics - where “my” side is all that’s true and good and “your” side is all that isn’t.

My interest is how LONG we will stay. I’m not satisfied with either candidate’s views. Obama’s, so committed to his withdrawal remarks, but I think he’s bright enough, and I hope pragmatic enough, to realize the situation may be turned to our advantage. McCain - a continuation of the “once we’re someplace, let’s not leave” policy that has been the norm for decades. Remember my favorite from Chairman JCS General Shalishkavili on going into Bosnia: “we’ll be home by Christmas.” And how a couple of us cracked “which Christmas?”

So, to stay - for how long. Under what circumstances. And what is the purpose of staying.

Questions I would dearly love to see applied to other parts of the world.

By Chesty Puller

June 23, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

If it was such a “screw up leading to Iraq”, then how’d we manage to take the country with speed and efficiency thought impossible under conditions of modern warfare?

Defeat or neutralization of enemy forces? Done right now.

Encompassing of enemy forces? Done right now.

Neutralization of enemy command-and-control? Done right now.

Occupation of enemy territory? Done right now.

Regime change? Done right now.

Friendly casualties? Minimal.

Survivability of friendly casualties? Unprecedentedly high.

Unbelievable. Into the annals.

That’s what Mike Luckovich is tagging at Two O’Clock of the Morning.

By N-GA

June 23, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this

Paul,

I too would like those questions answered. And as one of the ill-informed, I tend to want our withdrawal sooner than later.

I doubt world opinion will swing in our favor as long as we stay. And the cost of the war will continue to undermine the economy and our dollar. And that completely avoids talking about our combat deaths…

And Blackwater, KBR, and all the rest of the war profiteers will strongly disagree with me. I don’t believe for one second they put patriotism before profit!

By Bill Carpender

June 24, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

Mr. Luckovich: You were not even born when those two entities were around, You didn’t even know that WW2 happened because history about the war was not in you school. The men who raised the flag you portray were Heros. The men and women of ExxonMobil (some 85,000 of them) are hard working, taxpaying people who know how to run a company efficiently and (horrors) make a profit! Oh by the way ExxonMobil paid $88 billion in taxes last year. How much did you pay. Get over Iraq and your false thoughts about blood for oil garbage.

By Bill Carpender

June 24, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

Mr. Luckovich: You were not even born when those two entities were around, You didn’t even know that WW2 happened because history about the war was not in you school. The men who raised the flag you portray were Heros. The men and women of ExxonMobil (some 85,000 of them) are hard working, taxpaying people who know how to run a company efficiently and (horrors) make a profit! Oh by the way ExxonMobil paid $88 billion in taxes last year. How much did you pay. Get over Iraq and your false thoughts about blood for oil garbage.

By Bill Carpender

June 24, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

Mr. Luckovich: You were not even born when those two entities were around, You didn’t even know that WW2 happened because history about the war was not in you school. The men who raised the flag you portray were Heros. The men and women of ExxonMobil (some 85,000 of them) are hard working, taxpaying people who know how to run a company efficiently and (horrors) make a profit! Oh by the way ExxonMobil paid $88 billion in taxes last year. How much did you pay. Get over Iraq and your false thoughts about blood for oil garbage.

By Bill Carpender

June 24, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Mr. Luckovich: You were not even born when those two entities were around, You didn’t even know that WW2 happened because history about the war was not in your school. The men who raised the flag you portray were Heros. The men and women of ExxonMobil (some 85,000 of them) are hard working, taxpaying people who know how to run a company efficiently and (horrors) make a profit! Oh by the way ExxonMobil paid $88 billion in taxes last year. How much did you pay. Get over Iraq and your false thoughts about blood for oil garbage.

By Bill Carpender

June 24, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

Mr. Luckovich: You were not even born when those two entities were around, You didn’t even know that WW2 happened because history about the war was not in your school. The men who raised the flag you portray were Heros. The men and women of ExxonMobil (some 85,000 of them) are hard working, taxpaying people who know how to run a company efficiently and (horrors) make a profit! Oh by the way ExxonMobil paid $88 billion in taxes last year. How much did you pay. Get over Iraq and your false thoughts about blood for oil garbage.

By Bill Carpender

June 24, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

Mr. Luckovich: You were not even born when those two entities were around, You didn’t even know that WW2 happened because history about the war was not in your school. The men who raised the flag you portray were Heros. The men and women of ExxonMobil (some 85,000 of them) are hard working, taxpaying people who know how to run a company efficiently and (horrors) make a profit! Oh by the way ExxonMobil paid $88 billion in taxes last year. How much did you pay. Get over Iraq and your false thoughts about blood for oil garbage.

By Bill Carpender

June 24, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

Mr. Luckovich: You were not even born when those two entities were around, You didn’t even know that WW2 happened because history about the war was not in your school. The men who raised the flag you portray were Heros. The men and women of ExxonMobil (some 85,000 of them) are hard working, taxpaying people who know how to run a company efficiently and (horrors) make a profit! Oh by the way ExxonMobil paid $88 billion in taxes last year. How much did you pay. Get over Iraq and your false thoughts about blood for oil garbage.

By Harry Scott

July 1, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

Dear Mr. Luckovich,

Kudos for your political cartoon on the Iraq Memorial I saw it in Newsweek.It is a true depiction.I have serveral pictures I took of the Iwo Jima memorial. I feel that the the Iraq war was not worth the sacrifice one Marine’s life. The original picture and memorial sculpture of the flag raising are a fitting tribute to the terrible price paid by U.S. Marines at Iwo Jima in a war that had to be fought.

I would appreciate your permiossion to reproduce it as a poster or T shirt. I would credit you as the originator.

This week American oil companies are negotaitmg with the Iraq Governemnet to get back into Iraq to dig for oil after Saddam Hussein expelled them in 1972. It appears that Iraqis are saying no to production sharing agreements(PSA’s)that this Government is trying to get, which is privatization. They are wisely going for limited “technical services contracts”(TSC’s) with Exxon/Mobil and other foreign companies in which they would only be using the company’s expertise and abilties to explore and dig for oil over limited period of time.

Harry Scott

 

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