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Home > Opinion > Mike Luckovich > Archives > 2008 > April > 18 > Entry

Airline passengers

By Mike Luckovich | Friday, April 18, 2008, 09:15 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Permalink | Comments (115) | Post your comment | Categories: Editorial Cartoon

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By AJC Management

April 21, 2008 8:04 AM | Link to this

{{{{Shiite militia won’t disband Dispute with al-Maliki intensifies; violence in Baghdad rises-Urinal}}}}

Let’s play the Urinal headlines from World War 2 game:

(((Hitler refuses to surrender to Soviets, violence in Berlin rises-Urinal)))

Meanwhile, back on Earth, the “winners” from last week turn out to be the whiners this week:

{{{{Sadrist lawmaker Fawzi Akram called the government campaign against the Mahdi Army a “filthy military and media campaign” planned and supported by the Americans. He urged the United Nations, nongovernmental organizations and human rights groups to intervene.}}}}

Asking for intervention from “human rights” groups, isn’t this just so rich?

And you watch, if the UN does show up to “keep an eye” on the Iraqi Security Forces, I guarantee that the savages from the Mahdi army will blow them up, hahaha.

It’s amazing that this POS women and child killing criminal Sadr is allowed to even have a say in this matter but I guess that’s what the Urinal is for; broadcasting anti American propaganda from the world’s assorted scumbags.

You should be so proud.

~~~~~

Operation Chaos:

{{{{Eleanor Clift was dismayed that he “spoke haltingly much of the time” and was “on the defensive,” and she now wonders if Obama would be a nominee “whose vulnerabilities boost chances of a Republican victory in the fall.” And others (here and here and here) are equally dismayed. Some are downright disgusted by the gap between Obama’s high-minded appeal to “new politics” and the cynical realities of his campaign. Some are disappointed by the fact that “it’s still true that after so many months of promising hard truths, Obama doesn’t really force people to accept any.”}}}}

Tell me wingnuts, now that we ruined Obambi, should we turn our attention back to Bruno?

~~~~~

The environmental terrorists score a major hit against sanity, their long time nemesis and arch enemy:

{{{{MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. — Many parts of America, long considered the breadbasket of the world, are now confronting a once unthinkable phenomenon: food rationing.}}}}

Could we like ease up on the “green” BS before it’s too late?

Why do we always have to see the bottom of the lake or

By N-GA

April 21, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this

Unfortunately the average airline passenger has shown repeatedly that he/she is willing to exchange good service and quality product for mediocre service and poor product when given a choice between high cost and low cost tickets.

Fly KLM, SAS, Air France or Singapore Airlines and you will see a huge difference.

By The Devil You Say

April 21, 2008 8:28 AM | Link to this

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Luckovich actually got one right. This one is so on target it really needs to be published and distributed at all of the nation’s airports. I guess the 10% who voted no on this cartoon must work for the airlines!!!!!

By IN THE (Hussein) NEWS

April 21, 2008 8:33 AM | Link to this

[Message Machine… Behind Analysts, the Pentagon’s Hidden Hand ….Hidden behind that appearance of objectivity, though, is a Pentagon information apparatus that has used those analysts in a campaign to generate favorable news coverage of the administration’s wartime performance, an examination by The New York Times has found. …. The effort, which began with the buildup to the Iraq war and continues to this day, has sought to exploit ideological and military allegiances, and also a powerful financial dynamic: Most of the analysts have ties to military contractors vested in the very war policies they are asked to assess on air….. Records and interviews show how the Bush administration has used its control over access and information in an effort to transform the analysts into a kind of media Trojan horse - an instrument intended to shape terrorism coverage from inside the major TV and radio networks. …. Analysts have been wooed in hundreds of private briefings with senior military leaders, including officials with significant influence over contracting and budget matters, records show…………..In turn, members of this group have echoed administration talking points, sometimes even when they suspected the information was false or inflated. Some analysts acknowledge they suppressed doubts because they feared jeopardizing their access. ………… A few expressed regret for participating in what they regarded as an effort to dupe the American public with propaganda dressed as independent military analysis. ………..As conditions in Iraq deteriorated, Mr. Allard recalled, he saw a yawning gap between what analysts were told in private briefings and what subsequent inquiries and books later revealed. ………… Internal Pentagon documents repeatedly refer to the military analysts as “message force multipliers” or “surrogates” who could be counted on to deliver administration “themes and messages” to millions of Americans “in the form of their own opinions.” (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/washington/20generals.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)

LET ME REPEAT THIS FOR EMPHASIS

“Records and interviews show how the Bush administration has used its control over access and information in an effort to transform the analysts into a kind of media Trojan horse - an instrument intended to shape

By IN THE (Hussein) NEWS

April 21, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this

SOME MONDAYS ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS…..

I’LL TRY THIS ONE AGAIN…

Message Machine… Behind Analysts, the Pentagon’s Hidden Hand ….Hidden behind that appearance of objectivity, though, is a Pentagon information apparatus that has used those analysts in a campaign to generate favorable news coverage of the administration’s wartime performance, an examination by The New York Times has found. …. The effort, which began with the buildup to the Iraq war and continues to this day, has sought to exploit ideological and military allegiances, and also a powerful financial dynamic: Most of the analysts have ties to military contractors vested in the very war policies they are asked to assess on air….. Records and interviews show how the Bush administration has used its control over access and information in an effort to transform the analysts into a kind of media Trojan horse - an instrument intended to shape terrorism coverage from inside the major TV and radio networks. …. Analysts have been wooed in hundreds of private briefings with senior military leaders, including officials with significant influence over contracting and budget matters, records show…………..In turn, members of this group have echoed administration talking points, sometimes even when they suspected the information was false or inflated. Some analysts acknowledge they suppressed doubts because they feared jeopardizing their access. ………… A few expressed regret for participating in what they regarded as an effort to dupe the American public with propaganda dressed as independent military analysis. ………..As conditions in Iraq deteriorated, Mr. Allard recalled, he saw a yawning gap between what analysts were told in private briefings and what subsequent inquiries and books later revealed. ………… Internal Pentagon documents repeatedly refer to the military analysts as “message force multipliers” or “surrogates” who could be counted on to deliver administration “themes and messages” to millions of Americans “in the form of their own opinions.”

LET ME REPEAT THIS FOR EMPHASIS

“Records and interviews show how the Bush administration has used its control over access and information in an effort to transform the analysts into a kind of media Trojan horse - an instrument intended to shape

By Infidel

April 21, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this

Airline travel could be worse. They could make the entertainment a blog featuring ONLY the postings of AJC Management. Talk about time dragging.

By @@

April 21, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

FINALLY ml! Which one of those “cattle prods” is the “lofty” Obama?

By Larry

April 21, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

If one more person writes “Beware the Military Industrial Complex”, I’m going to stuff steel wool up my own p-hole with a shrimp skewer and twist it round and round no matter how much it hurts and bleeds just to distract myself from another idiot. If we didn’t listen to IKE why would we listen 2U?

We get it. Defense contractors, owned by the Saudi Royal Family, have taken over our country.

That’s why Hillary stole my line about wanting my country back. “Lets take our country back”.

By the way, Osama Bin Laden, I demand you surrender today. Just flag down a passing fuel truck that’s supplying our army in afghanistan that no doubt goes right past your hideout there in Pakistan. Just give yourself up. Surrender, Osama.

Nobody ever demands that Osama surrender. I thought I’d give it a try. bush wont. If osama is captured, that will end the iraq war. it’s like if they had killed Geronimo in the 1890’s the US cavalry couldn’t get financing from congress.

know it. believe it. live it.

‘muff said

By jethro bodine

April 21, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

Bush might score high on the ignorant index, but he’s as high as you can get on the sneaky Machavelli index. What a shame this guy didn’t use his energy and drive on something positive.

I guess Bush was Cheney’s opportunity to recreate Nixon.

By IN THE (Hussein) NEWS

April 21, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

The Top 10 Conservative Idiots, No. 333

By RW-(the original)

April 21, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

little newsie namejacker,

This would be a great day for our $1,000.00 a stroke + $1,000.00 for the best drive on each hole, 36 hole golf match.

You’ve probably sobered up from pothead day yesterday and you’ve got a little time before you set up your Earth Day drum circle tomorrow.

You ready? Oh and bring cash, lots of it.

By IN THE (Hussein) NEWS

April 21, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

RW-DUH-ZELL-AJC MGMT

Good Morning to you too!

Thanks but no thanks.

I am perfectly willing to admit that golf is not my best game.

Just as your multiple posts under the names of your varied characters shows that politics is not yours!

Have a wonderful day.

By Larry

April 21, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

The dragon in the year of the rat. A woman won an indy race. Bush hasn’t said anything stupid all year. Something is definitely up.

The cartoon? I’m surprised he went there. Cattle? Sheep? I guess the twist of it being cows complaining instead of people makes it pulitzer material.

However, if I had somehow not rejected this idea at first blush, I would have shown the cows doing something that is a barnyard counterpart to what happens to people in airports. Maybe the cow is afraid of the chicken with the accent, or turban, or some other easily accomplished farm chore as a threat or bottleneck.

I mean lets dig a little here. I cant believe the mediocrity that passes for entertainment and wit in the AJC.

It’s enough to make you stop writing altogether.

‘muff snuffed.

By RW-(the original)

April 21, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

little newsie namejacker,

What difference would it make what your game is like when you said you have personal knowledge that I have no game?

I’ll take your refusal to put your theory to the test as an admission that you’re just a clueless dolt that spends their entire week on a scribbler’s blog, unable and unwilling to go out and live life. It’s a shame, but if it’s a fulfilling life for you then so be it.

I, on the other hand, will continue to post once or twice a day using only one name and spend the rest of my day on beneficial pursuits. Good day to you and please try to break free of these paranoid delusional demons that have taken you over and sapped your lust for life.

By AJC Management

April 21, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

{{{{Mrs Clinton needs more than a win in Pennsylvania. She needs a big win. Victory in the race for elected delegates is out of reach. She has to sway uncommitted superdelegates by winning the aggregate Democratic popular vote, or by sowing serious doubts about Mr Obama’s electability in November. If she fails to wound Mr Obama on Tuesday, the pressure on her to quit the race will intensify – and itself add to her problems going into Indiana and North Carolina. If she keeps refusing to yield despite ever-diminishing prospects, the party’s uncommitted superdelegates, who will decide the outcome in the end anyway, may line up behind Mr Obama in June and settle it then.}}}}

Looks like we may need to vote for Bruno.

Bwa.

~~~~~

DHIMMINEWS: The next time you drag me into one of your paranoid psychotic delusions, I am going to devote my full attention to f’g you up.

Comprende, moron?

By IN THE (Hussein) NEWS

April 21, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

RW ANDY DUH ZELL RB AJCMGMT DEVIL ETC

“I, on the other hand, will continue to post once or twice a day using only one name …..”

Does your Daytimer say LIE every hour from 8AM to 7PM?

The only folks who don’t believe me are the many, many you make up hear daily.

By IN THE (Hussein) NEWS

April 21, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

RW ANDY DUH ZELL RB AJCMGMT DEVIL ETC

ESPECIALLY ANDY DUH

Bring it on!

By Larry

April 21, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

TO whoever is running interference for me: thank you, kind and very funny sir.

By RW-(the original)

April 21, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

{{{{{The only folks who don’t believe me are the many, many you make up hear [sic] daily.}}}}}-litttle newsie namejacker

Were that the case you would think that the usual suspects would be vocally in agreement with you and I am perfectly willing, and in fact encourage, the AJC to publicly out me should I ever post under another name. The fact is you’re alone on this delusional rowboat. It’s nice of the other moonbat(ic)s® to just ignore you though.

By TIme out!

April 21, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

Nobody reads any of you morons. Havent you figured that out yet? That’s why I post anonymously: to give you idiots a chance. People looking for me have to read at least two or three words before you einsteins give yourself away and they move on.

I try to be nice, so that everyone gets read, but instead of thanx, you over-applied lip-balms can only squabble about who’s who.

It’s me what spun your heads around so bad. You tint-wits see me in every ID. I’m actually posting very little.

Well, back to your moronium. Enjoy.

By IN THE (Hussein) NEWS

April 21, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

RW andy DuH ZELL DEvil Noose AJC MGMNT

it all equals the samething

Liar

By Wally Sutton

April 21, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

the price of oil is still cheaper than in 1973.

Who woulda thunk that the price of tea in China would ever be relevant?

By RW-(the original)

April 21, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

little newsie namejacker,

You’ve already graphically demonstrated that you can’t and won’t back up your claims, so why do you continue to make new ones? Poor thing.

I’m heading out to do a 10K, why don’t you see if you can type 10,000 words while I’m doing it.

Later!

By IN THE (Hussein) NEWS

April 21, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

RW LIAR ANDY LIAR ZELL LIAR DUH LIAR DEVIL LIAR NOOSE LIAR AJC MGMNT LIAR

A pattern develops…..

By The Devil You Say

April 21, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

ITN - because someone expresses an opinion, based in fact, that is contrary to one held by you, does not a liar make. Please, pray tell me what lies I have told? I really din’t have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinski!!!

By IN THE (Hussein) NEWS

April 21, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

The Devil you say

“ITN - because someone expresses an opinion, based in fact, that is contrary to one held by you, does not a liar make”

That’s the truth….

I simply suspect you are another Little Ricky clone…..

By AmVet

April 21, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

I really din’t have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinski!!!

THAT is such a great point!

It reminds me of Lonnie Smith’s base running blunder in the eighth inning of Game 7 of the 1991 World Series. Had he not rumbled and stumbled and bumbled going around second base on Pendleton’s double, he scores easily and the Braves almost certainly win that Series. And who knows how many more?

And had Clinton made it with a hottie instead of a chubby plain Jane, the nation probably readily forgives him and Gore wins handily in 2000 (instead of just winning!).

Then there would be NO talk of things like Cheney, Rumsfeld and botched invasions/occupations.

Little mistakes can sure add up to BIG consequences…

By The Devil You Say

April 21, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

All of you bleeding heart types, please stop with the ignorant, left-wing, looney and disengenuous pap about how Rush Limbaugh and Dick Cheney (and any number of other people, left and right) are warmongers who never served in the military. Military service is not a requirement to be commander in chief or to be for a war. No one, in this country at least, really wanted a war. It was forced upon us and, agree or disagree, we have it. We must be (as Hillary says about her campaign) in it to win it.

Of our first fifteen presidents only six had any military experience. Our sixteenth president, Lincoln, had NONE. Grant, our worst president, had gobs of military experience. Neither Wilson or Franklin Roosevelt had any military experience yet they led us - over the objections of isolationists and ‘America-firsters’ into two World Wars. We won both because they had the courage to follow the advice of the generals, even when it wasn’t politically expedient to do so. Since Eisenhower, we have had a habit of electing men with rather low ranking military experience, and that is nice, but hardly a ‘qualification.’

What if Barak Obama or Hillary Clinton found it necessary to lead us into another war? Would you then decry the fact that they had no military experience and call them war mongers? I seriously doubt it. Some misguided Republicans would hypocritically do so, but most would rally around the commander in chief as a patriotic and national security necessity.

As for the wearing of flag pens. That is all well and good that Mr. Obama does not want to do so. But by refusing to do so for so long and calling those who did ‘phoney’ he showed what kind of effete elitist he truly is. Like the sacraments, wearing a pen is an outward sign of inner faith. It might not be completely necessary, but it is imporant to demonstrate that faith to others. But then again, I am only a bitter, god-fearing fellow who was raised in the country. I’ve never owned a gun.

By RW-(the original)

April 21, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

One thing you can always count on is a “progressive” being hopelessly stuck in time.

Just because Gore was unsuccessful in his attempt to steal the 2000 election, Blowhard, doesn’t mean he really won.

little newsie namejacker,

There’s a name for the condition where false patterns develop solely in your own mind. Care to know what it is?

By The Devil You Say

April 21, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

ITN - you still did not answer the question, you just resorted to a personal attack, which I must admit, went right over my head. I have no idea whatsoever what a little Ricky clone is. I do know what a left-wing sychophant is, and you are ONE among many on this blog.

By The Devil You Say

April 21, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

It seems that Jimmy “Neville Chamberlain” Carter has done it again. He is trumpeting that Hamas is willing to live as a good neighbor of Israel. The trouble is that the leader of Hamas has just vowed NEVER to recognize Israel’s right to exist. He really is a fool and an embarassment to this country. Dummy really needs to come back to Plains and sit on the front porch with a sign hanging around his neck saying: “This is what a dumba** looks like!

By mm

April 21, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Devil at 12:38

{{{No one, in this country at least, really wanted a war. It was forced upon us and, agree or disagree, we have it.}}}

Liar. The iraq invasion was not forced upon us. Bush wanted the war in Iraq. He didn’t care about OBL.

RW at 12:38

{{{Just because Gore was unsuccessful in his attempt to steal the 2000 election, Blowhard, doesn’t mean he really won.}}}

Gore was unsuccessful, but Bush wasn’t. He stole it fair and square.

Now go away like you promised at 10:58.

By The Devil You Say

April 21, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

ITN - I would love to know who those sources are, as I might know them as well. I also would like to know how they know that about Rove because when I talked to a promenent national Republican who used to serve as Speaker of the House, he was complaining to me that Rove was being overly optimistic and that too much work needs to be done.

By AmVet the Ignorant

April 21, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

“Gore wins handily in 2000 (instead of just winning!)”

What don’t you comprehend about the fact that Gore lost? He never won the 2000 election except in his and a few others deranged minds!

By IN THE (Hussein) NEWS

April 21, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

OH, THE DEVIL YOU SAY HAS POLITICAL CONNECTIONS TOO?????

Makes ya’ think….HMMMMMMM

By RW-(the original)

April 21, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

(m)ental (m)idget,

I said I was going to do a 10K at 10:58. I bet even a larda$$ like you could do one in under two hours and I can do it in less than half that.

By The Devil You Say

April 21, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

mm - I was referring to the war on terror in general, of which Iraq has become an integral part. I am sure if we were not in Iraq and Saddam were still killing people that many of you folks would be screaming about Iraq and oppression and wondering why we were allowing him to harbor terrorists within his borders. Jesus himself could endorse this president and you would still call him the devil.

By the way, Gore did try to steal the election in Florida and thereby the national election. Just counting votes in two Demoncrat dominated counties and then trying to throw out military absentee ballots and ALL absentee ballots in Republican Seminole county kind of tells the whole story. Also, the Miami Herald, no right-wing rag, did its own audit and recount and guess what - Bush still won!

By MM the Ignorant

April 21, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

“Gore was unsuccessful, but Bush wasn’t. He stole it fair and square”

No one stole anything. President Bush “won fair and square”.

Repeating your lies over and over again does not make it a truth !

By mm

April 21, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Devil at 1:00,

I would tend to agree that Rove probably is overly optimistic. Rove, Bush, and Cheney are all arrogant beyond belief. They think they are made of teflon. Their day of reckoning looms.

Today we have the whitehouse fighting a court order.

More covering up and more stalling. What’s to hide?

By The Devil You Say

April 21, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

ITN - yes. Quite a few of us do. Politicians have friends and acquaintances. They are in the ‘people business.’ I also know Roy Barnes and John Lewis and a number of state legislators with whom you may or may not have some familiarity. So stop screaming. It is unbecoming.

By The Devil You Say

April 21, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

mm - please tell me ONE day after the first day of ANY modern presidency that the White House has not been fighting some kind of court order. You are going to have to do better than that to prove corruption. Certainly this White House doesn’t even come close to the Clinton White House on that score.

By AmVet

April 21, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Ah yes, agent provocateurs can ALWAYS make {{{ricky retardo}}} sit up and beg. (In between running around the back yard chasing his tail?)

An old trick to be sure, but still enjoyable to watch…

“No one, in this country at least, really wanted a war. It was forced upon us…”

(To say Bushco didn’t WANT THIS WAR flies in the face of all reason, but what the hell…)

Indeed it was, and the neo-cons and the worst administration in American history, who did the forcing are going to, for a second consecutive time, pay a terrible price in this upcoming election.

Bet on it.

Pretending they had a clue about anything military or how to prosecute an invasion/occupation is not something the disgusted American voters are going to let slide this time.

4039 (and constantly growing) Americans needlessly KIA in the greatest clusterf&ck of our age.

Republican Bloodbath, Part Deux. Coming to an election near you this November.

By mm

April 21, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Whine, whine, you brainwashed (r)epublican (w)hores. Bush and his gang will all eventually be indicted. And it will be fun to watch.

And it will be for alot more than a BJ in the whitehouse. If the Dems had the votes he would already be impeached.

You’ll be peeling that GOP sticker off your car faster than McCain will concede on election night.

By The Devil You Say

April 21, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

mm - by the way, for anyone to hurl the phrase “arrogant beyond belief” at Bush, Cheney and Rove and then turn around and sing the praises of the Clintons, the Kennedys and, yes, Barak Obama is missing the meaning of the words hypocrite and HUBRIS!

By Jesus

April 21, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

IMPEACH BUSH NOW!!!

By The Devil You Say

April 21, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

AmVet - I really have a hard time believing that you were ever in the military or have ever even read a book on military history. This war has had the lowest casualty figures of any we have ever fought, including the brief War with Spain. You are also denegrating our soldiers, airmen and sailors by implying that they are dying in vain. You would be the frist to complain if Saddam were still in power and the terrorists were using Iraq as a base to attack the rest of the world, as had been done in Afghanistan. Shame on you.

By Paul

April 21, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

IThN

Hello - kinda surprised your sources and all their military advisors missed this:

Link: Gates: Air Force Lagging in War Effort

He also slammed the other services for being mired in the past.

“Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Monday the Air Force is not doing enough to help in the Iraq and Afghanistan war effort, complaining that some military leaders are “stuck in old ways of doing business.”

He also slammed the AF for not getting enough Predators on station and not doing enough to support intelligence gathering and surveillance.

Geeeee, do ya think anyone here has ever talked about the AF being stuck on buying new fighters instead of drones? Or discussed how the AF requires its remote-control drone operators to be accredited pilots, with at least one tour of flying regular aircraft (and eligible for a $25k a year bonus) while the Army takes soldiers with high school educations? SecDef Gates has asked the AF leaders for an explanation.

Y’know, SecDef Gates was in the military for a couple of years. Not a whole lot of experience there. CIA doesn’t count - just ask Sec Rumsfeld and others who wrested the military mission away from the CIA in Afghanistan and got it back with the Pentagon where it belongs.

So who you gonna believe - him or alllllll those generals or the (silent) military advisors at your sites?

just havin’ a little fun on a slow news day-

getalife

Saturday Night Live was merciless on Obama. The pendulum swings -

By RW-(the original)

April 21, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

(m)ental (m)idget,

Where in your link at 1:12 does it say that the Bush administration is fighting a court order?

By Jasin

April 21, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

If Obama wins the Democratic nomination and the presidency, then we still have a chance to turn this country around and continue the great American journey. If not, then I see the continuation of the downhill path of our great country. I guess every empire has it’s fall.

By mm

April 21, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Devil,

I’ve never on this blog bragged about the Democrats (not much to brag about). I spend all of my time bashing the Bush administration.

You should really give up defending the war. Americans will show you wingnuts what they think about the war in November. They will also show you what they think about the GOP not caring what the majority of Americans want.

By Paul

April 21, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

IThN 12:53

“a Swift Boat 2.0 has yet to emerge for the right”

I’ll bet that makes Soros feel great. He and Begala (and his sidekick) will have the season all to themselves.

mm 12:59

Bush stole the election fair and square? But I thought the Left liked the Supreme Court?

Devil You Say 1:29

I realize it was directed at AmVet, but if I may, casualty counts should not be used as an indicator of the necessity or success of a military mission.

IThN

Still no comment from your sources on the Dem candidates willing to nuke Iran?

Personally, I think Hillary’d be a lot more hard-core than a lot of people think.

Plus, she understands how to attract the Jewish vote.

By RW-(the original)

April 21, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

(m)ental (m)idget,

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I think Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are Democrats and are in their second year of having control of what gets done in Washington.

Paul,

Did you get the Dick Morris email today about Hillary’s terror ties? If those get much play it’s not going to go over too well with the Jewish voters.

By AmVet

April 21, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

“AmVet - I really have a hard time believing that you were ever in the military or have ever even read a book on military history.”

I understand.

You’re an idiot.

It’s not my problem.

“You are also denegrating our soldiers, airmen and sailors by implying that they are dying in vain.”

Again, I understand.

You’re a chest-pounding, never-served-never-will, chickenhawk idiot.

Again, it’s not my problem

“…the phrase “arrogant beyond belief” at Bush, Cheney and Rove and then turn around and sing the praises of the Clintons, the Kennedys…”

Actually, Satan you may be interested (or not) in knowing that I agree with you on this one.

Other than JFK, NONE of these never-served “favorite sons” are very different in that regard…

And one can even argue that the adjectives frequently and properly used to describe Bushco, such as inept, incompetent, scandal ridden, phony, vapid, etc… may well apply to some (most?) of the leaders in the Democratic Party as well.

But there is ONE adjective that applies SOLELY to this administration.

And IMHO it is infinitely more pejorative that any of those others.

DEADLY.

But hey, it’s not like your kids will ever go there, so what does it matter…

By mm

April 21, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

RW,

Your 1:33 is a stretch even for you.

Try this one. Fight/challenge, same thing

By getalife

April 21, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Well, this cycle has produced amazing results.

“progressives” and the wingnuts have very much in common.

They both hate the Clintons and if she is the nominee, they spew they will vote for mcwar.

They both have divided their parties.

They both spin the negatives on their heroes and think they can do nothing wrong.

They both have the media but blame them when there hero screws up.

Who da thunk it?

Simply amazing.

By mm

April 21, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

RW at 1:49,

If you tell yourself that lie enough times you’ll start believing it.

But come this November, the dems majority will override all of the stalling/blocking tactics of the GOP.

By RW-(the original)

April 21, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

(m)ental (m)idget,

Do you know anything about the Courts of Appeal, why we have them and what their purpose is?

I didn’t think so.

By RW-(the original)

April 21, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

(m)ental (m)idget at 2:11,

So are you allowing that the Republicans were never in control of what happened in Congress during the vast majority of the Bush administration since they had similar margins of majority?

By RW-(the original)

April 21, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

DOWNINGTOWN, Pa.—At the next train stop, I’m going to stand behind Sen. Obama when he speaks. When he’s decrying the trivial distractions in politics, I think he may be crossing his fingers behind his back.

{{{{{As the senator’s campaign train wound from one speech where he denounced t**-for-tat politics to the next speech where he denounced t**-for-tat politics, his campaign hosted a conference call to engage in the practice the candidate was busy denouncing. I suppose it would have been an even greater act of chutzpah for the Obama campaign to host the conference call while Sen. Obama was denouncing that kind of behavior, but not much more of one.}}}}}

By The Devil You Say

April 21, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

mm - McCain will win by default because your candidates are weak. Hillary is mean and no one likes her. Barak Obama is an effete, elitist snob and he is an empty suit, all hole and no doughnut. Hillary beat the daylights out of the Obamanation last week and McCain will take him apart. He is a stranter to substance.

By The Devil You Say

April 21, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

That last sentence should have read: He is a stranger to subtance!

By getalife

April 21, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Clinton would win the general easily but the dems will run obama to lose three in a row.

Nothing will change but riots on food and gas will hit this country too.

It is getting ugly out there but there is good news out of Iraq.

We are working with Iran trying to stop the Shiite civil war.

By AJC Management

April 21, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

{{{{Lopez: What is the future of al-Qaeda?}}}}

{{{{Yon: In Iraq its future is bleak. Al-Qaeda is not a mistake the Iraqi people will make twice in a lifetime. Al -Qaeda will still do some killing, especially up in Mosul, but mostly they are just being killed or captured and losing ground month by month.}}}}

Bwa.

By MomCat

April 21, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

By getalife April 21, 2008 2:05 PM Well, this cycle has produced amazing results. “progressives” and the wingnuts have very much in common. They both hate the Clintons and if she is the nominee, they spew they will vote for mcwar.

OK….I said I wouldn’t make a ‘peep’ until after the election, and then say “I TOLD YOU SO.” Circumstances prompt me to say ‘I Lied.’ I will still maintain that “I told you so.” The extreme ultra liberals think they are so blasted smart…they have messed up big this time. Obama will not be elected president!!! Someone’s children and grandchildren will be paying the piper. The first big smelly poo was failure to support Gore (remember that stupid Swiftboat job). Y’alls got big problems. Sorry I can’t help. Retirement is bliss! May the Lord bless you and yours! After a point you just go to the coast and let the Right Wingnuts and Extreme Liberals eat their young!

By Georgia 74

April 21, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Is the The devil you say, Buy Danish or Andi?

By The Devil You Say

April 21, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

Georgia 74 - neither.

By Devastator

April 21, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Mayor Rendell Invites Minister Farrakahn to Philadelphia

Former Mayor, Ed Rendell, who is Governor of Pennsylvania and the states most influential supporter of Presidential hopeful.. Hillary Rodham Clinton, speaking to a packed audience at Tindley Temple United Methodist Church on April 14, 1997 at rally: “A Solution Too Heal The Racial Divide

” The then mayor was the principal organizer of the rally that brought together diverse religious, political, and civic Philadelphia leaders, with Nation of Islam leader, the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan as the keynote speaker

By AJC Management

April 21, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

{{{{Sen. Clinton rightly points out that the Reserve components of the Army are under stress. But the right answer is not to abandon the mission in Iraq. It is to reverse the cuts in American military strength that reduced the number of troops available for Iraq and for which her husband is largely responsible. In 1993, President Clinton cut the size of all three military services by one third to one half; the active Army, which had been sized at 18 divisions during operation Desert Storm, was reduced to 10 divisions by the mid-1990s, with the final and most dangerous reductions during the Clinton years. The risk to American security was not only foreseeable but was foreseen. At the time the cuts were made — even before the attacks on 9/11 made it clear that the military would have to fight a war against terror in addition to its other responsibilities — a panel of retired generals testified unanimously before Congress that the smaller Army would not have the flexibility it needed to carry out its missions without unacceptable levels of stress on the troops. The size of the Army was reduced anyway, and now the troops are paying the price.}}}}

By IN THE (Hussein) NEWS

April 21, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

Geogia 74

Devil is andi, is zell, is RW, is duh, is noose, is ajc management, is rb, is various and sundry others that pop up just when IT needs a little neo con back up…

By AmVet

April 21, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

{{{Andy}}} is correct that military forces were reduced significantly under Clinton.

The active-duty military totaled 1.8-million at the start of his presidency in 1993 and declined to 1.4-million in 2000. They are also correct that the naval fleet shrank dramatically. The Navy had 454 ships in 1993, but as vessels were retired and not replaced, the fleet was down to 341 by 2000.

But predictably he is selectively choosing numbers that make it appear that the military cuts were Clinton’s alone. In fact, the cuts were prompted by the end of the Cold War during the presidency of President George H.W. Bush, a Republican.

During Bush’s presidency, he and Congress agreed to a sharp drop in military personnel. Active-duty military declined from 2.2-million to 1.8-million. Total defense forces also shrank, from 3.3-million to 2.9-million.

Yet the neo-cons are still trying to portray Clinton and the Dems as weak on defense.

But contrary to their claims, the post-Cold War shrinking of the U.S. military was very much a BIPARTISAN effort. It began under a Republican president and a Democratic Congress and continued under a Democratic president and a Republican Congress.

And so as usual, this claim is ONLY half true.

By AJC Management

April 21, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

Note that in my last post that I left out the fact that the Bush 41 administration began the military downsizing process in the wake of the end of the Cold War. This process was led by the current VP who was then the Sec. of Defense. I also left out that the Bush Administration fired a General who suggested that 500k soldiers were needed to secure Iraq. You may ask why I left out these important facts? It is because I am a liar. I lie as often as I breathe and moreover I believe the lies that I tell. I am an unrepentent scumbag who will blame Clinton for anything and everything despite the fact that Clinton oversaw 8 years of peace and properity and Bush has overseen 7 plus years of the most complete, catastrophic, clusterf**k ever visited upon the Ameican people. But of course I simply want more of the same because I am not only a liar I am a believer that my personal fascist ideology is more important than the well-being of my fellow citizens most of whom are unworthy of their status as citizens because they either disapprove of Bush or think that the Iraq war was a bad idea or both, which should, in a world where I made the rules, subject them to charges of treason.

By WhimpO

April 21, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

(((Obama is next headed to the Pittsburgh area, where he is scheduled to hold two events this evening.)))

(((“Alright, everybody, I need you to vote Tuesday,” he reminded those here.)))

(((Reporters and photographers slightly trampled a Sept. 11 memorial garden to get into position to photograph Obama after the event, and to try to ask him a few questions.)))

Obama has not taken questions from reporters traveling with him for 10 days. He gave his supporters some advice about the cameras at the start of his event.

“Just ignore them,” he said. “Pretend they’re not there.”

By Devastator

April 21, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

ITN,

How do you post videos here? I have a lovely clip of Penn Gov. Rendell praising Farrakkhan that I would just love to display.

By Paul

April 21, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

AJC Management

Actually, the drawdown began in 1989. Not an attempt to shift this to Bush the Elder, but to point out the Soviet Union was disintegrating and these actions take time. So planning began well before Pres Clinton took office.

True, the Army got hit hard - but they bore the brunt of the manpower to counter the Soviets. So a good argument can be made it was appropriate.

But even today we field the second-largest armed force in the entire world. We did not realign missions and priorities during the drawdown - that’s been discussed before. Mindsets and weapons acquisition maintained the Cold War model. One reason why, when we entered Afghanistan we had, what, four Predators available? Nothing for urban warfare? No advancements in nation-building, let alone counterinsurgency?

Realignment would be painful. Fiefdoms would be broken and those two primary items - money and power - would be lost. Just as with many federal agencies, Defense rarely shucks old missions without a fight. So the answer is to add more, not to transfer from one branch to another.

Many would also argue that increasing force levels would be an inducement to further interventions, or to maintain the force levels around the world. Given we now spend about as much on defense as the rest of the world combined, some would say other options should be explored.

But not even the Dem candidates will talk about it.

Hey, IThN - could you see the right-wing bias coming through, again? I’d bet dollars to donuts if I took a look at your libleft sites all their military experts would be calling for more money for Defense. Whadda ya bet?

By @@

April 21, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Jimmy Carter’s little fantasy world:

(((PNA: Hamas Will Accept Israel Peace Deal — Carter April 21, 2008 1250 GMT

Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter on April 21 said Hamas told him it will recognize Israel’s right to exist peacefully if a peace deal is made and approved by Palestinian vote. Hamas will agree to a peace deal between Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Palestinain President Mahmoud Abbas if Palestinians give their approval, even if Hamas disagrees with some of the terms, Carter said. He made the statement after meeting with Hamas chief Khaled Meshaal. The news runs contrary to April 20 reports that Hamas rejected an Egypt-mediated cease-fire agreement with Israel.)))

and then….

(((PNA: Hamas Vows Harsher Attacks On Israel April 21, 2008 1626 GMT

Hamas plans to carry out harsher attacks on Israel, The Associated Press reported April 21, citing comments by a Hamas spokesman published in a Hamas-linked newspaper. The spokesman said recent attacks on Israel-Gaza crossings, which left five Israelis dead, were only “practice.”)))

I’m kinda embarrassed for the senile old coot.

By Paul

April 21, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

AJC Management Impostor at 4:05

Oh, please - Gen Shinseki announced his retirement months and months and months before the troop-level comment.

The numbers required for the battle were different than the numbers required for an occupation. The number he cited for the latter was quite a bit less than 500k.

His estimate may have been correct, but even he didn’t foresee the reasons why we’d need so many.

BTW - Gen Shinseki was the Army Chief of Staff, responsible for training, equipping and organizing the Army. The guy responsible for coming up with the numbers needed was the CENTCOM commander. And his staff. Including some of those book-tour generals.

By IN THE (Hussein) NEWS

April 21, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

Devastor

Is this it?

RW/Andi/Zell/AJCMGMT/ETC taught me how to do this….. funny ain’t it!

CLINTON SUPPORTING PA GOVERNOR HEARTS LOUIS FARRAKHAN

Inside a set of [] put the title or catch phrase then inside a set of () put the web address of the site you want to reference…

By IN THE (Hussein) NEWS

April 21, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

AMvet, Devastator, Georgia 74

It’s been fun watching the man of many faces talk to himself all day….

By Paul

April 21, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

IThN

How on earth could you think of those three as the same?!!?

By @@

April 21, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

Devastator:

Maybe I’ve missed something, but what’s the problem with either Obama or Rendell attending the Million Man March? I don’t care for Farrakhan with his message of hate, but I saw no problem with the MMM.

Just curious why all the hooplah on the news shows.

By Paul

April 21, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

@@

From Fri - Hamas spokesman said Carter, merely by meeting with them, gave Hamas legitimacy.

Then this morning Carter said there could be a vote about living with Israel. Hamas spokesman said they would not be bound by a vote.

Castro. Mugabe. Chavez. N Korea. al-Bashar (Sudan). Hamas. Lotsa meetings (government’s measure of success). Short on lasting results (what others consider success).

By RW-(the original)

April 21, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Would Obama be friendly with someone who actually bombed abortion clinics and defends that conduct? Not likely. But he is friendly with William Ayers, a leader of the radical Weather Underground, which in the 1970s carried out numerous bombings, including one inside the U.S. Capitol. (Though the last person who should object is Hillary Clinton, whose husband pardoned two Weather Underground members.)

{{{{{Obama minimized his relationship by acknowledging only that he knows Ayers. But they have quite a bit more of a connection than that. He’s appeared on panels with Ayers, served on a foundation board with him and held a 1995 campaign event at the home of Ayers and his wife, fellow former terrorist Bernardine Dohrn. Ayers even gave money to one of his campaigns.}}}}}

{{{{{It’s not as though Ayers and Dohrn have denied or repudiated their crimes. After emerging from years in hiding, they escaped federal prosecution because of government misconduct in gathering evidence, but they don’t pretend they were innocent. In 2001, Ayers said, “I don’t regret setting bombs. I feel we didn’t do enough.”}}}}}

By AJC Management

April 21, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

{{{{By Paul April 21, 2008 4:24 PM AJC Management Actually, the drawdown began in 1989. Not an attempt to shift this to Bush the Elder, but to point out the Soviet Union was disintegrating and these actions take time. So planning began well before Pres Clinton took office.}}}}

Paul: Every knowledgeable authority on the subject agrees that we need to increase the military back to the size that Bush 1 left KKKlinton to reduce the “stress” on the current force level.

No one has even suggested going back to the Reagan numbers.

Even further:

{{{{The Clinton administration didn’t just cut the size of America’s military in the early 1990s; it also failed to supply and modernize the force that remained. It took what the defense community called at the time a “procurement holiday”; modernization budgets were cut, and the government bought only a fraction of the “platforms” — ships, planes, and tracked vehicles — that were necessary to maintain the existing inventory.}}}}

Just more of their “love” and “support” for our soldiers.

By Paul

April 21, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

AJC Management

That’d be about 1.8 mil

Link: Military Personnel Statistics

Part of the point I was trying to make earlier was that doing so many of the same things we’ve historically done, basing people so many places, spending money as we have, means that when we expand in one area (Army requirements) the standard solution is: plus up the Army by adding more money.

Not realign or cut other services. The Army has the prob. Marines, too. AF and Navy are coasting.

But no one will give up people or structure voluntarily, especially so the Army can have more.

So an overall plus-up to Bush I years? I’d refine it by saying Army plus-up, other services reductions. My point about how AF handles Predator “pilots” is to show it’s driven not by mission requirements by by an effort to protect the number of pilots. Cut hundreds of F-15s, add less than a couple hundred F-22s, care to guess how many pilots we’ll still be buying?

That’s what happens when politicians use terms like “return to prior force levels.”

‘Nuther thought: do we really want an Army sized for an occupation/long-term insurgency requirement?

By AJC Management

April 21, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

Ahhh, yes, free campaign attack ads on behalf of the wingnuts:

{{{{Late Sunday, Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor blasted back: For someone who agreed with John McCain on voting for war in Iraq, agreed with him on supporting trade agreements like NAFTA and special trade privileges for China, and agrees with him on taking money from Washington lobbyists, Hillary Clinton’s latest attack is ridiculous even for her standards, and we’re confident the people of Pennsylvania will see right through it.”}}}}

{{{{“She’s taken more money from lobbyists and special interest than any candidate, Republican or Democrat. … When you ask yourself why it is that we don’t have health care that everyone can count on, think that drug and insurance companies have spent a billion dollars in the last 10 years in lobbying and contributions and PR, so it’s surprising that laws that are passed in Washington are good for them, but not as good for you,” Obama said in Reading.}}}}

{{{{“The two also blanketed the state with attack ads.”In the last 10 years Barack Obama has taken almost $2 million from lobbyists, corporations and PACs. The head of his New Hampshire campaign is a drug company lobbyist, in Indiana an energy lobbyist, a casino lobbyist in Nevada,” said a new Clinton commercial airing in the campaign’s final days.}}}}

Well, well, all the things the pinkos accuse the Republicans of doing, turns out, so are they.

Cause they told us so, hahahaha.

Losers.

By @@

April 21, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

(((Lotsa meetings (government’s measure of success). Short on lasting results (what others consider success).)))

Yes Paul, but the one I’m most interested in is scheduled for tomorrow - closed door between Israel and the Bush administration.

Subject…..Syria.

There have been ongoing talks between Syria and Israel. Very hush hush.

What’s goin’ on? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

We shall see.

By Paul

April 21, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

@@

Meanwhile, the candidates debate lapel pins and who knew whom when.

sigh -

But offhand, I’d hazard a guess Syria’s not all that enamored of Iran’s plan to “fill a vacuum.”

Or of getting sucked into a conflict with Israel because Hamas wants to obliterate Israel.

The manageable can quickly become unmanageable. Has to do with the illusion of control.

By @@

April 21, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

Did anyone watch “The Strategy Room” last night? Frank Luntz, some Fox commentator, Al Sharpton with about 30 undecided voters - Democrats, Republicans and Independents.

They ran a bunch of campaign ads. Know whose ads got the most positive feedback on their little dial-up thingies?

John McCain’s hands down. Scored something in the 86 range. Obama and Hillary’s barely made it to 68.

Another program with Frank Luntz and Governor Rendell with college students all favoring Obama. After Gov. Rendell brought some facts to their attention they were dumbfounded. Again, they couldn’t tell you what Obama has done, they just liked his speeches.

By @@

April 21, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

Exactly Paul! Remember when I told you it looked like Iran might throw Syria under the bus? Syria may be wising up. Gotta make some hard choices, they do.

Lebanon’s a fragile state for Syria. Right now Hezbollah is very suspicious of the Assad government, what with the Mughiniyah assassination and all.

I have my own theory, but we’ll just have to wait and see.

North Korea has been very quiet of late. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

By Right-wing nut job in full glory

April 21, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

AJC Management,

‘Just more of their “love” and “support” for our soldiers.’

That’s so true!!!! Liberals hate the military. That’s why they only took 3.5 years to beat the Germans and the Japs. If they had cared anything about the troops they would have let them fight for much longer. But they just don’t care enough about them to consider that many more men may very well have wanted to die for their country but their opportunities were cut short by our quick success leaving many willing soldiers to live. I&