Mike Luckovich

By Mrs. Godzilla

September 21, 2007 8:10 AM | Link to this

It’s the same gang you know.

The same gang that is roasting our troops is also standing in opposition to offering to our fellow citizens safe, affordable health care.

We are the only industrialized nation in the world that does not. Our parents and our kids the paying very high price.

The greatest nation on the planet is now held hostage by a gang that wants To drag us into the past rather than forward into the future.

I can’t wait till 08.

By Shawny

September 21, 2007 8:20 AM | Link to this

Thank you, John Cornyn, for sponsoring a bill where the senate overwhelmingly condemned the attack on Gen Petrayus by the commie group Moveon.org.

This blog sums it up pretty well. Funny how Hill won’t condemn them. Too much money, too much influence to buck them.

Also interesting how Obama didn’t vote either way, though he voted just minutes prior on another bill. Hmmmm…don’t want to go on record either way, do you now Barack?

Today’s liberal toon sucks in many ways. While there definitely does need to be more availability to healthcare insurance in the US, and it is sad that we have those that can’t afford it, be very very afraid of HillaryCare 2.0.

I am suprising that Lucko put this spend on the elephant in the bed…why not protray the elephant as a rich white man that has saved enough money via tax cuts for the rich to not even need healthcare. geez.

Anyway, I feel obligated to offer up today’s toon that doesn’t suck, that does a good job of illustrating the power of money and politics.

By Mike

September 21, 2007 8:23 AM | Link to this

The chart was originally reflected the massive drop in Congressional approval ratings. Then Mikey remembered that he is a mindless partisan who is incapable of mocking Democrats and he changed it.

Mikey is as predictable and boring as Sean Hannity.

By Luckoduh

September 21, 2007 8:25 AM | Link to this

{{{{The Democratic-controlled Congress lead by Sen. Harry Reid and Speaker Nancy Pelosi continues to fall out of favor with the American people. U.S. Congress registered record-low approval ratings in a Reuters/Zogby poll released on Wednesday….A paltry 11 percent rated Congress positively, beating the previous low of 14 percent in July.}}}}

{{{{Despite last year’s pledges to restore budget discipline, Democrats have been so busy chasing phantom Justice Department corruption and paying back campaign contributors with symbolic votes that they’ve yet to finish a single spending bill. With just nine days left in the fiscal year, they’ll have to pass a continuing resolution next week to allow the government to keep running.}}}}

~~~~~~

{{{{Hillary knows that the law provides that nobody can be turned away because of their inability to pay for needed medical services — she just hopes the voters don’t know that. She wants them to think that some cruel tyrant stands at the emergency room door barring entrance to the poor and needy.}}}}

By @@

September 21, 2007 8:26 AM | Link to this

Why is it ml, that you conveniently ignore the elephant in the room?

Better question…will Hillary’s healthcare plan cover the illness brought on by the bacteria growing in the “Petre”aus dish. (Liberties in spelling noted here)

petri dish (noun)

A “shallow” “circular” dish with a “loose-fitting cover”, used to “culture bacteria” or other microorganisms

By Goldie

September 21, 2007 8:30 AM | Link to this

Yep, the Repug mantra seems to be: “I’ll oppose any measure put forth by the Dems, until such time that opposing that measure actually affects me personally or my family members!”

Reminds me of my former neighbor who was a right-wingnut, always ranting about the Feds over-stepping their boundaries with the income tax policy — that is, until he and his family were affected directly by Hurricane Ivan in ‘04 and then he started ranting about not getting enough help from FEMA… if he wasn’t so pathetic, I would’ve laughed.

By Dusty

September 21, 2007 8:40 AM | Link to this

There are so many things out of sync in this cartoon, I find it hard to give it much consideration.

First, the Republican Party is not sick. After watching Congress on TV, I realize that Republicans are the only sage, sane and “healthy” party represented there.

Secondly, Hillary’s healthcare plan is nothing but a rerun of her first presentation of a health plan which met with total rejection. The name of her plan is socialized medicine. There is nothing about her concoctions that Republicans admire.

Democrats revile the healthcare of the military and veterans which is government run. Yet they fall over backwards trying to convince us that ALL Americans should pay for EVERYBODY’s healthcare, i.e. another socialistic government-run plan Democrats would foist on Americans.

Third—Republicans are not “depending” on Democrats. If they were, we would be slinking out of Iraq, breaking our promises and cringing at home. Then they would ridicule our troops just as Luckovich did yesterday. Anybody remember the “welcome” our troops received when they returned from Viet Nam? That is the kind of return Democrats want for America.

This cartoon is another political waste of time.

By Elston

September 21, 2007 8:40 AM | Link to this

Goldie -

Your hypocrisy amazes me on a regular basis. You make me laugh.

By Bosch

September 21, 2007 8:45 AM | Link to this

It’s quite amazing to me that the neos are so outraged by MoveOn’s ad, but were not outraged by say, groups like the Swift Boat Veterans who attacked a Vietnam combat veteran. Oh, they really didn’t like that combat veteran and took the word of some bitter old men, so that’s okay.

And these same outraged neos weren’t outraged when Saxby Chambliss called Max Cleland unpatriotic even though he left three of his limbs in the jungles of Vietnam.

Hmmmmm………they are only outraged when groups on the opposite end criticize THEIR skipper.

It’s OKAY for their ultra propoganda groups to criticize the people THEY deem unworthy - hypocrits.

“While there definitely does need to be more availability to healthcare insurance in the US, and it is sad that we have those that can’t afford it, be very very afraid of HillaryCare 2.0.”

So Shawny, you think we need more availability to healthcare, and those that can’t afford it need to have more options.

Well, I have this question:

Who do YOU think is going to make that available? The Republicans, oh you are so naive if you think that.

The Republicans are trying to take away expanded healthcare for more children, the Democrats are fighting that. They claim they are trying to be more fiscally responsible. The Democrats are proposing to pay for the program with an increase in tobacco tax. OHHHH, shudder, but we can’t have a tax increase, even on a product that costs us more in healthcare.

The Grand Ol’ Party has created a system that has made our healthcare the worst in the industrialized world in terms of affordability and access.

What good we could do for the people of our OWN nation if we hadn’t gotten bogged down in this complete atrocity in Iraq.

By Dr Dr gimme the news

September 21, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this

is it actually true that universal coverage results in worse care? That’s a very different story from the one that conservatives tell

By w00t

September 21, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this

It’s a funny thing that you guys will have such a fit over an ad, but wont even consider truly debating the war and ways in which we can turn Iraq over to it’s on security forces and government.

Let see, should we worry about:

-3,700+ Solders dead, or an ad? -25,000+ wounded, or an ad? -over a trillion of your dollars spent, or an ad? -Al-Queda in Afghanistan, Pakistan, or an ad? -People’s healthcare in America, or an ad? -10+ years to stay in Iraq, or an ad? -manipulation of facts and intelligence by our on government for the continued involvement in Iraq, or an ad? -Osama Bin Laden still on the run, or an ad?

Instead of using tax payers dollars to waste time on the senate floor to condemn free speech is unacceptable. If we did this every time a conservative talking head said something deplorable, we would never get anything done. Which is exactly what the Republican Party wants to do, to turn the attention AWAY from the war.

Grow up America, get a backbone, and question your leaders and government. Dissent wasn’t unpopular in 1776.

By Bosch

September 21, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this

“Democrats revile the healthcare of the military and veterans which is government run. Yet they fall over backwards trying to convince us that ALL Americans should pay for EVERYBODY’s healthcare, i.e. another socialistic government-run plan Democrats would foist on Americans. “

Dusty,

Whose been in charge of the government for the past 12 years (minus 9 months)? You might want to re-think that statement.

And, why is it so bad for EVERYBODY who is an American citizen in this country to have proper healthcare?

I’m always amazed at people who claim to have such strong Christian principles make statements like that.

By Peter

September 21, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this

TOO FUNNY … thinking of legislators’ benefit package and knowing how they have little regard for the little people’s. (They seem to advocate minimum wage and heathcare for the wealthy.)

By Goldie

September 21, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this

And I’m always amazed at the Bush-kissers’ failure to open their eyes and see what Bush has done to America and it’s military:

How Bush has created a moral vacuum in Iraq in which Americans can kill for free.

“A moral vacuum” — that pretty much sums up the Repugnant Party today!

By Goldie

September 21, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this

Elston @ 8:40 — I suggest you look up the definition of “hypocrisy” before accusing others… you’re obviously a Neo-con troll who finds insult with the truth.

By luckovichisaheadcase

September 21, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this

All of you who want Hitlery Care, please just go ahead and move to Canada or Germany where you have to wait forever for certain treatments, such as a masectomy or heart by-pass surgery. Yeah there is a single payer, but the top marginal income tax rate is about 70%-80%. Luckovich is just another ingorant leftist sychophant who still believes the crap taught to him in college that socialism works and Marx was a great judge of both history and human nature. Pity the poor fools.

By Goldie

September 21, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this

Let’s see all you trolls defend Blackwater today, all because you’re still kissing Bush’s patooty:

Take the case of the Blackwater guard who got drunk at a Green Zone party last Christmas Eve and reportedly boasted to his friends that he was going to kill someone. According to both Iraqi and U.S. officials, he stumbled out and headed provocatively over to the “Little Venice” section, a lovely area of canals where Iraqi officials live. He had an argument with an Iraqi guard, then shot him once in the chest and three times in the back. The next day Blackwater put him on a private plane out of the country—probably only because the incident involved a rare killing inside the Green Zone and the victim was a security guard for a high-ranking politician. That was it. The company has refused to disclose his name.

By Bosch

September 21, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this

Mr. Headcase, You are simply misinformed - try getting out of the house more. That is typical rhetorical madness perpetuated from those opposed to socialized healthcare.

I find it funny that you call someone ignorant (and misspell it to boot) while you spew that nonsense about the healthcare system in Europe.

By w00t

September 21, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this

luckovichisaheadcase, better to have gone to college and able to think for myself than to have talking heads and Bush tell me how I should live.

Besides, you don’t think an HMO, tells you what doctors you can and can not go to, or that you have to wait for an appointment? When was the last time you got to go to ANY doctor you wanted to that did not have some form of wait. Going to the doctor is not like going through a Mcdonald’s drive through.

By RW-(the original)

September 21, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

Bosch,

Did the hippies that formed moveon.org serve in Iraq with General Petraeus like the Swift Boat Veterans did with John Kerry?

Now don’t waste your time answering that since we all know that answer. What I would like to see is proof that Saxby Chamblis called Max Cleland unpatriotic.

On another note, KUDOS! to the AJC headline writer from yesterday. Over the story on page one about the Webb-Surrender Now amendment going down, the headline says…..in bold, large font…..TACTIC TO CUT TROOPS FAILS. I bet said headline writer is at the unemployment office today though, poor fellow.

By Bosch

September 21, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

w00t, Good point about dr. waits here. My dad was recently diagnosed with cancer and he had to wait two weeks to see an oncologist, and another two weeks to begin treatment.

By Dusty

September 21, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

Bosch 8:53

You must like to dance because you certainly do the “twist” a lot.

Let’s see. Who has been running the government for the last 12 years? Not George W. Bush for 12 years. He became President in 2001. The eight years before that was Bill Clinton. Is that what you mean?

Americans ARE getting healthcare. We have one of the best systems in the world. The poor have everything from Medicaid,PeachCare, County clinics, ER admits, Medicare for Seniors and the disabled, and charity hospitals and allotments from other hospitals, all financed by taxpayers. Now you want taxpayers to support those who make enough money to pay for their own healthcare if they manage. That is the rub. Paying for the poor is one thing, but $80,000/family is not poor.

When we got independance we declared ourselves able to take care of ourselves. I am not about to ask for socialism or communism to do it. You seem to want everyone dependent on government.

As to Christian principles, I assume you have given all YOUR wealth to set a fine example for the standards you set for other people. And another thing, I want freedom for all people such as we are giving the citizens of Iraq. That is another Christian principle that you seem to reject. Freedom! Why? Because it might cause you some sacrifice.

You best leave the preaching to your wife. It does not become you.

By RW-(the original)

September 21, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

That last paragraph in my 9:26 was a general comment not directed to Bosch. For some reason the hall monitors here at the luckovich blog didn’t like me using asterisks to separate it from the rest of the comment.

w00t,

Define what you mean by wait. I can go to any doctor I like and there will be a wait that might involve an hour or so, but I sure don’t have to wait six months for an MRI.

By your implied definition the drive through involves a wait of “some form.”

By steve-o

September 21, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

RW,

The Swift Boaters were a bunch of opportunistic liars. Even McCain stepped in to defend Kerry’s record.

{{{McCain : I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crewmates have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam.}}}

Also, in regards to Max Cleland, Chambliss did indeed paint Cleland as unpatriotic by morphing his face into bin Laden’s in his 2002 campaign ad. It definitely implied that Cleland, as a Democrat, was indirectly doing the work of Al Qaeda.

By RW-(the original)

September 21, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this

Dusty,

When you can pin Democrats down on what “tax cuts for the rich” they want to roll back it ends up being as low as a family making about $80,000. a year.

So now I guess they want to claim the $80,000. a year household is a magical number that makes that family both rich and poor. It could be the only income level where the government wants to take money out of your wallet and put it in your purse. Why don’t they just leave that family well enough alone?

By Doomsday:Friday Oct. 5, @007

September 21, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this

On Doomsday, I will select the top blogger that has made the most sense on this blog throughout 2007. In addition, I will list all of my accomplishments and political views.

Doom

By Bosch

September 21, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this

RW, No, I’m sure that hippie didn’t serve with Petraeus, just like not all the Swift Boat Veterans served with Kerry, and that wasn’t my point.

I don’t think the Swift Boat Veterans were right doing what they did, and I don’t think MoveOn was right with that ad. I’m tired of the extremes. While I, of course, tend to agree more with MoveOn, I would like to see some kind of compromise between parties and some unity.

Okay, maybe Chambliss didn’t come right out and say those actual words, but we all remember what happened, at least some of us do, it was one of the dirtiest elections I’ve ever seen.

By getalife

September 21, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this

It is okay if the gop does it but when Moveon does it, there is outrage.

Just more hypocrisy from our friends in the lunatic fringe.

It is a distraction from the failed occupation. w moved the goal posts again.

Blackwater is back up and running like I said they would.

Great toon Mike.

The gop are sick.

Geez.

By Paul

September 21, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

Dusty 8:40

[[Hillary’s healthcare plan is nothing but a rerun of her first presentation ]]

I think there are some significant differences. Not to go point by point - but I think she learned from the past (don’t get any more specific than you have to! It’s how she runs her campaigns, also). Her 1994 plan relied heavily on employer-provided insurance through HMOs. 2007 doesn’t. (Don’tcha just love how her 1994 plan has so many similarities to our current situation, which she wants to reform? Could this be a 2007 reform of her 1994 plan, many of whose elements we see now? Wonder what a 2020 revision will look like?). This plan doesn’t (not at all influences by the campaign contributions from the health care industry, I’m sure) and also sets up a public insurance option.

It’s also been reported it’s very similar to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan - which neither of them address, as Romney’s proposals are much different from his state plan.

Shawny

You can see all of Ramirez’s cartoons here:

Link: [Michael Ramirez Editorial Cartoons]*(http://www.investors.com/editorial/cartoon.asp)

He’s a fantastic artist.

Goldie

Okay challenge to some group to defend Blackwater. The fact no one’s brought it up or has defended them kinda shatters stereotypes, doesn’t it?

Bosch

While not defending the Swift Boat group, I think there is a significant difference between criticizing a vet who was a low-level player in a conflict, who was awarded medals for courage and valor, who later symbolically threw away his medals in an act to criticize a war and to - then who put as a main, distinguishing feature between him and his opponent that while both military, he (Kerry) served in combat and so was more fit to lead,

and

calling a serving, four-star general a traitor, in advance of any testimony. He’s an advocate, innovator and sometimes lone voice in counterinsurgency operations whose tactics are diametrically different from the tactics employed the first few years of the war, he’s been given a job - at the start he pretty much said “we’ll see how it goes” - to do, and some of his most repeated answers were along the lines of “I don’t know” - not the answer of a sycophant who repeats the party line at every opportunity.

By What is getalife whining about now?

September 21, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

What do you mean its ok for the Gop to do it? You haven’t seen the gop direspect our military you idiot! There’s no hypocrisy, just a dumb blogger with nothing else to say.

Doom

By RW-(the original)

September 21, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

steve-0,

The Chambliss ad DID NOT morph Cleland’s face into Bin Laden’s. There was an ad that morphed Bush into Hitler, care to tell us who put that ad out?

Bosch,

If you read the book, Unfit For Command you will find that all the accounts about Kerry were from individuals that were present at that event or things that were disputed by historical fact like Kerry claiming to have spent Christmas 1968 in Cambodia at the direction of President Nixon. Nixon wasn’t even President until 1969.

The only factual accounts that have changed are Kerry changing his stories, not the other way around.

By Right-wing nut job in full glory

September 21, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

In an era where every Democratic candidate is pandering to the stupid people who believe that Americans have a “right” to affordable health care, (the very same people who believe that Iraq was a mistake by the way) I think its past time that we Republicans stand up for what we believe and run on platform that abolishes Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. These programs are socialism at its worst and are programs which are terribly unpopular with the people. I would suggest that if we did this that the people would award our intellectual honesty with approximately 12% of the vote. The alternative of course is to give lip service to hating government programs, leave these commie programs alone, and run on fear and homophobia, whereby we may cobble together a majority. As for myself, I think the GOP would do the country a great service if it would just stand by its principles and move to abolish these relics of the New Deal. I strongly believe that once the people see what we are really about that they’ll know what to do with us.

BTW: Dusty, you made a great point when you said that regular Americans would never want to be treated like we treat our veterans. That is a great case against socialized medicine and in fact it may also be a good idea to abolish the VA and close Walter Reed. If those people need health care they can pick it up on their own dime.

RWNJIFG

By Right-wing nut job in full glory

September 21, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

I love being a fake human being. I’m too much of a piece of sh!t to just state how I feel. I have to fake like I’m something I’m not to get my point across.

RWNJIFG

By Paul

September 21, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this

Mrs Godzilla

[[affordable health care]]

“Affordable” is an interesting word. I’m looking forward to the candidates detailing how that aspect will work. We spend, what, 15 percent of GDP on health care? Approaching half of gov’t spending? I wrote the other day of a Swedish economist (I question his stats) who said the taxes to support their system are about 45% for “those who don’t make all that much.” Considering about half of households pay zero or very little Federal tax, and many who say they can’t afford insurance would be required under the foreign models to pony up 20 to 45 percent of their income - well, there are just too many questions left to answer.

How does one give a tax credit to a household to purchase insurance, when they don’t pay any tax in the first place?

This is not an opposition to these plans - in fact, I encourage some reforms - but I’d like the candidates to get past the sound bite and press release stage.

By Goldie

September 21, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this

RW @ 9:54 — maybe you can explain why the military commanders wanted to give Kerry his medals to begin with? Did Kerry go to them and demand that he be given medals for valor? Is that how that works in our military???

By Bosch

September 21, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

Dusty, “You seem to want everyone dependent on government.”

Why do you ever assume to know what I want?

Why do you think that all liberals want pure socialism? You said it yourself, we have some forms of socialism already in our government and that’s how I like it. I have never advocated one pure political ideology - most people who have the ability of higher levels of thinking do not.

The problem with you Dusty, is that you seem to see the world in black or white, it’s either right or wrong, it’s my way or it’s stupid. And the world doesn’t work like that.

BTW, the other Bosch isn’t a preacher. That’s the problem with you Dusty, you make too many wrong assumptions based on your opinions formed from rhetoric and propoganda.

By georgia 74

September 21, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

The FBI tapping Ted Stevens phone, Larry Craig soliciting sex in men’s rooms, will there be in REpublicans left to run in 08.

By RW-(the original)

September 21, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

Goldie,

As a matter of fact the “V” designation is one of the disputed areas where Kerry has now changed his story. As for his purple hearts, yeah he pretty much demanded them. One didn’t even require a bandaid and one thing that historians will tell you happened in Vietnam was that medals were handed out like candy which sadly cheapened the medals of the truly heroic over there.

By Paul

September 21, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this

Bosch 9:29

I trust your dad is progressing well.

My wife had to wait about a day and a half to see an oncologist. Surgery was available within a couple of days. We opted for another medical center (the first was very, very good, the second is cutting-edge) and we had an appointment within a week - fortunate, as we had travel arrangements to make.

So situations - timelines - vary all over the place.

It went well. Again, best to your dad.

Shawny

One more time, let’s see if I can get rid of the pesky asterisk:

Link: Ramirez cartoons

By Goldie

September 21, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this

{{calling a serving, four-star general a traitor, in advance of any testimony. He’s an advocate, innovator and sometimes lone voice in counterinsurgency operations}}

HA— Petraeus is Bush’s political PAWN, just like he was when he wrote an op-ed column for Bush, declaring in effect that “we’re winning” in Iraq… let’s see: was that in ‘04 before the elections?

Fact: Shortly before the 2004 presidential election Petraeus did something that active-duty commanders should not do. In late September he wrote an op-ed piece for The Washington Post obviously as a favor to the Bush campaign, in which he applauded what he called major progress by the Iraqi military, Iraqi police and Iraqi leadership.— It is bad enough that the general, a smart guy who knew what he was doing, interfered in the 2004 presidential election, in effect advocating the position of the Republican candidate, the incumbent, on the number-one issue of the campaign, only weeks before the vote.

By Bosch

September 21, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

RW,

Look at Bush’s record in the military. Is he any better? “Unfit for Command?” I could argue that Bush fits that description more than Kerry.

Paul, I don’t. Both groups are the fringes, and the way I look at it, an attack is an attack. It’s just as tacky from both sides.

By Goldie

September 21, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

RW @ 10:13 — great job there, slamming our military commanders for caving in to Kerry’s “demands” — how much of the Kool-Aid have you been drinking for the past 6 years???

By steve-o

September 21, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

RW,

Let me correct myself. The controversial Chambliss ad opened with the images of Hussein and bin Laden followed by Cleland. It was a very ugly maneuver in trying depict a veteran who lost three limbs as a traitor or appeaser.

Below are Hagel’s and McCain’s reactions to the ad.

{{{Immediately the ad was denounced, not just by Democrats but also by two Republican senators — John McCain and Chuck Hagel, both of them Vietnam veterans.

“I’ve never seen anything like that ad,” says McCain. “Putting pictures of Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden next to a picture of a man who left three limbs on the battlefield — it’s worse than disgraceful, it’s reprehensible.”

Irate, Hagel told Republican officials that if they didn’t pull the ad, he would make an ad denouncing them. After that, Chambliss’s campaign removed the pictures of Hussein and bin Laden from the ad.

“Max Cleland has given as much to this country as any living human being,” Hagel says. “To say he is in some way connected to people like Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein was beyond offensive to me. It made me recoil, quite honestly.”}}}

In regards to the Hitler/Bush ad, I’ve never seen it and I would never condone a wreckless piece of propaganda like that.

By Dusty

September 21, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

Bosch 10:05

If you don’t want anyone assuming what you think, then stop posting your thoughts for every one to read.

I don’t guess at what you think. I go by what you post.

You don’t think in “black or white” in politics or ideology? Are you kidding? Almost every day, you put out some opinionated fact about Republicans, even to the point of calling the President a “traitor”. Don’t give us that old song and dance about not being opinionated.

BTW, YOU passed along the “rhetoric and propaganda” that your wife went to seminary. It may surprise you that most people who go to seminary enter the ministry or some other religious calling. Is that another “fact” you seem to miss so easily?

By Goldie

September 21, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

{{That is a great case against socialized medicine and in fact it may also be a good idea to abolish the VA and close Walter Reed. If those people need health care they can pick it up on their own dime.}}

Thanks Nut Job for once again summarizing the Neo-con philosophy of “every man for himself”, except of course, exempting Big Corporations and CEOs, whatever their needs… then it all becomes “every man (and woman) for the Corporations!”

By getalife

September 21, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

doomed,

I will let KO explain it to you

Watch the video moron before you spew something ignorant again.

Geez.

By getalife

September 21, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

The military is not political.

w crossed that line like he did with the AG and other depts.

Military members get fired for being political.

KO lists the history of these facts in the video I posted.

Watch it and learn something.

Geez.

By Bosch

September 21, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

Thanks Paul - You are right, I think it does vary - just like everything else in this world. My dad is doing well, thanks, that was why I was worried about him a couple weeks ago.

I appreciate your concern. How long ago, did your wife go through her cancer treatements? Just curious. I’m really quite amazed at what they can do now.

I’m not bashing our quality of healthcare, I think it is quite amazing, but I wish it was available to all without the worry of what it’s going to cost. Couldn’t one argue that if EVERYONE had the security of knowing they were going to get adequate healthcare, that would make us a stronger nation? Isn’t security one of the essentials of life?

I really hate to see people like Mr. Headcase above make such ignorant statements about European healthcare. I have a friend who had a very serious medical emergency about a year ago and was on the operating table within 30 minutes of seeing the doctor.

Sure you may have to wait for some non-life threatening tests and procedures, but that happens everywhere.

One must remember too that European mindset and culture in regards to healthcare are quite different than ours. Most of my friends who live in Europe don’t even take Tylenol if they have a headache, and they don’t like prescription medicine. Here in America, we are inundated with advertisements telling us which prescriptions to ask our doctor for.

I can’t speak for all Europeans obviously, but the ones I know very rarely even go to the doctor, and if they do, it’s because they are really sick! I think there is less preventive medicine in Europe, but again, the ones I know, eat more healthy, exercise more (they walk and ride their bikes), use more “home remedies” for things, etc.

I seem to have said this alot this week, but this problem, like everything isn’t just a quick fix kind of thing, it’s a culture problem.

By Paul

September 21, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

Goldie 10:17

Well, that pretty much sums up the viewpoints. I’ll just agree to disagree on this.

This morning’s Today show - Matt Lauer had a dual interview - Eli Pariser from MoveOn and (drumroll) - Laura Ingram! Good matchup.

Pariser would not back down, apologize, offer any inkling that anything improper at all was done by MoveOn (kinda the inverse of those you excoriate for saying everything’s peachy in Iraq, isn’t it?).

Lauer asked Ingram what she thought. She said she was all for free speech, more speech, in fact, she encouraged MoveOn to keep on running those kinds of ads as much as they possibly could (I think she meant they did Reps a lot of good in diverting the discussion from Iraq and onto Democratic candidates relationships re. MoveOn). Pariser said they were supported by the military. Ingram encouraged MoveOn to take his show on a tour of Iraq. He didn’t seem enthused.

One thing got me about Pariser’s attitude. He said MoveOn had a membership of 3.3 million and also “represented ALL THOSE who are opposed to the war in Iraq.”

What an ego. I wonder if all the people who are opposed to the war know who their voice is?

By RW-(the original)

September 21, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

Bosch,

Whether YOU want to argue fitness for command is immaterial to the discussion of the BOOK Unfit For Command. At that point President Bush had already been commander in chief for four years so his prior military service wasn’t really an issue to anybody but the nutroots and that stooge Dan Rather.

steve-0,

It’s interesting that you are so happy to point out how honorable Republicans were to come out and immediately denounce an ad they deemed inappropriate. Too bad Democrats don’t have that kind of honor, isn’t it?

By the way, the Bush morphing into Hitler ad was none other than moveon.org.

Goldie,

Nice try. Speaking of drinking how much Chardonnay have you had this morning? You should really read a little history some time, the real stuff not the revisionist stuff.

All the above and any others here,

The golf course beckons! See you at happy hour.

By Harriet Miers

September 21, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

republican congressmen… haha

Voting in lockstep with G. Dubya, it will be difficult to continue lying to their constituencies about being independent from Dubya and against the war.

republicans have now wrapped their arms around this war and embraced it for all time. it is their war, it is their loss…

When the people who elected you to congress/senate OVERWHELMINGLY oppose the USA’s illegal occupation of iraq, you would think they’d vote accordingly.

Being charged to represent these people and speak for them is an enormous responsibility, apparently dismissed outright by their elected GOP officials.

the wool is being pulled back from their eyes at last. These people are liars, cheats, and murders. They are the betrayers not General Betrayus.

well… i am at least starting to see why Madam Speaker has declined to impeach this criminal… she’s simply carrying him along to pull down the barely elected repug-gluttons who chose pride over representation.

By Right-wing nut job in full glory

September 21, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

Someone out there wants me to tell it straight so here goes:

The Iraq War is the greatest war ever.

Bush is the greatest President ever.

WWII took less time because it was easier.

Cheney has a heart of gold.

The neo-cons are NOT a bunch of former liberals, who happen to be Jewish, and who have hijacked the White House into using the US military as a surrogate army for the State of Israel.

Just because the White House has played the fascist handbook to a “T” by covering each one of the ten steps toward an authoritarian state doesn’t mean that its intentional.

Fascism can ONLY develop through malice and never because of a sincere over-reaching in reaction to an actual threat.

Petraeus’ not being able to say that the Iraq war makes us safer is meaningless and should be ignored.

The greatest threat to America is MoveOn.com.

Only Republicans are real Americans.

Liberals are terrorist-sympathizers who hate the troops, the American flag, decency, babies, Jesus and all things that are good and normal.

RWNJIFG

By getalife

September 21, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

Excellent post RWNJIFG.

By Bosch

September 21, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

Dusty, Well, I guess you haven’t noticed, but I’m not like most people - the other Bosch isn’t either.

Yes, I post my opinions frequently, but that’s just that, their my opinions. You on the other hand most always post your opinions as absolutes which in my experience with people who think in absolute terms tend to see the world in black and white.

Please tell me how by my telling you all on this blog that the other Bosch graduated from seminary is rhetorical and propoganda? Do you know what those words mean?

I can say with some certainty that my posts are very rarely written in terms of absolutes, but rather my opinion.

Let’s think back about your assumptions - you assumed once that I was German, I’m not. In fact, one of the earliest memories I have of you Dusty was you making fun of my name because you thought it was some kind of cabbage soup, which in fact, you even had THAT wrong.

You assumed that my spouse is a preacher. Wrong.

You assume that I am a Democrat - I’m not.

And yes, I’m sorry, but I do think that Bush is a traitor to our nation. Again, that’s my opinion, and I have the right to think that.

You even assume Dusty, that I’m a man and that the other Bosch is my wife. How do you even know that Dusty?

By Paul

September 21, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this

Bosch

Good to hear about your dad. Ours was - next week we’ll be gone for a few days - for the 18-month check. She was pronounced “cured” at the 6-month point (doc said he could make that statement in only four percent of the cases) and these visits are to monitor to make sure everything’s still okay - plus she volunteered to be part of a study which will hopefully lead to an early detection methodology.

Re. the healthcare debate. Regardless of desires, I think the consensus in this country is moving towards a modification to our current system. Many, like Michael Moore, inhibit progress by splitting the issue into a “my way or your selfish way” debate. His way, European way, some other way: I’d just like to see a clear description of each, a listing of the significant strengths and significant weaknesses of each, then a plan to adopt the strongest aspects with controls or processes (gotta get the buzzwords in) to minimize the weaknesses.

I know - way too much to ask!

getalife

[[Military members get fired for being political.]]

Excellent point. But I think they should also get removed for not providing their clear, unvarnished input, especially when asked directly by their superiors or when their posting/job requires it.

Come to think of it, Gen Petraeus’ halting responses to Congress (not in the chain of command) occurred when questioners asked him politically loaded questions, didn’t they?

By candide

September 21, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

Am I covered? Of course one’s personal situation should dictate the policy you support. I wish this for every anti-abortion person: I hope your daughter gets knocked up and then you can preach against abortion if you want.

The same with Terri Schiavo situations, gay relations, and all the rest. For homophobes, I hope your sons are gay.

By getalife

September 21, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

He wrote an op-ed for the Post right before elections Paul.

That is political.

He should have refused to testify and have a bushie do it.

w and betrayus crossed that line not moveon.

He should be fired but he is w’s little political pawn, w hides behind because he is a coward.

Anyhoo, it is all a distraction from w’s failed occupation. w moved the goal posts again. Not a peep from the outraged gop. Give it more time they spew.

Lets get real Paul with the facts.

By steve-o

September 21, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this

RW,

The Bush-Hitler ad was the result of a contest held by Moveon.org and the founder of MoveOn even denounced the advertisement himself.

{{{“This is the worst and most vile form of political hate speech,” Ed Gillespie, chairman of the Republican National Committee, said in one of several statements he issued. He urged the nine Democrats running for president to repudiate the advertisements.

Wes Boyd, a MoveOn.org founder, fired back, saying Republicans were “deliberately and maliciously” misleading the public by asserting that MoveOn.org had sponsored the advertisements. “None of these was our ad,” Mr. Boyd said in a statement. “Nor did their appearance constitute endorsement or sponsorship by MoveOn.org Voter Fund.”

On Monday, MoveOn.org said more than 100,000 visitors to the site had selected 15 finalists, none of them the Hitler advertisements. A panel of celebrities and political experts has been asked to pick a winner, which will be televised.

Mr. Boyd conceded that the advertisements were “in poor taste,” and said he “deeply regretted” that they had “slipped through.”}}}

The ad wasn’t sponsored by MoveOn.org’s Voter Fund and to my recollection, I don’t remember seeing it on TV.

Also, don’t flatter yourself about McCain’s and Hagel’s denouncements of the Swift Boaters. That was only TWO republicans out of thousands.

By Bosch

September 21, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

Paul, I agree with what you said about healthcare to some degree, but I also think it is just a culture thing as well. Americans, in general, are just more fearful of everything. They are afraid of terrorism, they are afraid of being the victim of a crime, so they need guns, they are afraid of death so they need religion, they are afraid of being sick, so they need all these drugs.

I know, that was a one-sided rant, but you know what I mean.

Anyway, I digress - I agree with your type of plan, but I do not have enough confidence in our government to make such a plan.

That’s good news about your wife. I hope things continue to go well. I asked about how long your wife had treatment because I was totally amazed at options now.

By bon scott

September 21, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

By luckovichisaheadcase - September 21, 2007 9:11 AM - All of you who want Hitlery Care, please just go ahead and move to Canada or Germany where you have to wait forever for certain treatments, such as a masectomy or heart by-pass surgery. Yeah there is a single payer, but the top marginal income tax rate is about 70%-80%.

Nothing like twisting the truth. Patients with serious medical problems (heart-by pass) do NOT wait 6-9 months for treatment. A hip replacement, yes. Emergency heart disease, no.

Also the European nation with the top tax rate is Sweden, where it’s 55%. Not 80%. And there are moves to cut this in Sweden by a new generation of moderate socialists who believe work is better than welfare.

Luckovich is just another ingorant leftist sychophant who still believes the crap taught to him in college that socialism works and Marx was a great judge of both history and human nature. Pity the poor fools.

Oh, good. Continue with the simplistic, childish stereotypes. Luchovich is a Communist like you’re a Fascist, okay?

By getalife

September 21, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

Hey wingnuts,

Outrage on this

Bwhahahahaha.

Whiners.

Geez.

By Paul

September 21, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

getalife

I went to the Washington Post and read the op-ed.

Such pieces need to be cleared by the military before they run. There are tough prohibitions against political activity. I know, some will say they turned a blind eye because they’re pawns.

I believe he was in charge of standing up the Iraqi forces during that time. What I read was a report on the current situation - not an advocacy piece.

The Iraqis started from zilch - so any increase can be reported as better than what was. He reported “this many battalions, these training academies, this much infrastructure, people are volunteering to help.”

I didn’t read where he commented on right or wrong, do this or do that. He said, this is the job I was given, we started from zero, here’s where we are now.

Frankly, it wasn’t much different than the daily briefings we saw during Desert Storm or at the beginning. Just transposed to a newspaper.

The last paragraph was:

“There will be more tough times, frustration and disappointment along the way. It is likely that insurgent attacks will escalate as Iraq’s elections approach. Iraq’s security forces are, however, developing steadily and they are in the fight. Momentum has gathered in recent months. With strong Iraqi leaders out front and with continued coalition — and now NATO — support, this trend will continue. It will not be easy, but few worthwhile things are.”

And since that time we’ve seen enemy attacks escalate, few “strong Iraqi leaders out front.” One of those “if this happens then that will happen” statements. Some read those as “this will happen or should happen.” Not true for an “if/then” construct.

So I don’t really see that op-ed as a political (Republican vs Democrat) issue.

Here’s the full piece:

Link: Gen Petraeus column in Washington Post, 2004

By Midori

September 21, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

Steve-o, Bosch, Goldie, Getalife: I feel your pain.

You’re never going to get anywhere with these brain dead zombies.

I remember their glee during the GOP convention, when several of the participants were sporting purple band aids - their childish and ignorant way of taunting John Kerry.

And now the Wingnut Mafia is all “outraged” over the MoveOn ad.

They all can go directly to Hades.

By getalife

September 21, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

They are having a press conference for a fake bomb on a college student at Logan airport.

It is an led shirt that lights up.

Our country is so scared, they have lost their freakin minds. OBL is laughing his as-s off.

Geezus fereaking kerist.

By getalife

September 21, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

wingnut mafia,

Hey, they found their mafia.

They will burn Midori.

They chose the wrong path.

By Harriet Miers

September 21, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

candide!

yeah i agree, those opposing the right to choose simply need to have their wife raped. then we’ll see whether they are willing to have their rapists child.

its as simple as that. abortion is a bad thing, the worst situation… but a necessary one. These christians seem to forget that their is only 1 real life and one potential life.

they cast asside the REAL life and embrace the potential one.

if your daughter gets knocked up, which is more important… her future or a cluster of 16 cells with no heartbeat?

of course the christians will say the cluster of 16 cells, but they are completely insane the whole lot.

By Bosch

September 21, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

Getalife, “Our country is so scared, they have lost their freakin minds. OBL is laughing his as-s off.”

I think you are right on about that. You don’t have to come in and blow up a country to make it crumble. I think OBL is smart enough to know that - he knows our culture.

By bj in ky

September 21, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

Duh,

I enjoyed our little joust yesterday. I tested your opinions. You tested mine. I took personal shots. You took some back. Americans have a duty to disagree. I’m going away now. But before I do, I’d like you consider this: You mentioned Vietnam vets running screaming in fear from the battlefield. Many were not so lucky. There was a lot of screaming but in many cases those doing it couldn’t run. Many never had the chance to scream. It is so very easy to advocate sacrifice of human life for a ‘cause’ when you’ve never known the next step you take may be your last. It’s very easy to advocate killing when you have never killed, or dying when you have never seen death. Vietnam tore the heart out of my generation, and despite the losses of one-tenth of the country’s population, the North Vietnamese won, anyway. They fought for their country; we were tourists. Iraq is an apt analogy. We may kill off thousands of fanatics. This if taken by itself may be a good thing. They become martyrs and we feel a bit safer. But tens of thousands will take their places. Jihad is an awesome force, like nothing Westerners can comprehend. If history shows us anything, it’s that Allah likes his martyrs and even the most level-headed people don’t care for foreign occupation. We can’t conquer the Middle East; that’s been tried again and again. We are not fanatics in general and our troops will eventually have had enough sacrifice to the coffers of KBR and their ilk. Reason suggests we can’t ‘win’ this war. So long, my friend. I must go polish my Gore in ‘08 bumper sticker and hoe the petunias in my peace garden. ;)

By getalife

September 21, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this

“Mattel Apologizes to China for Recalls”.

Yep, this country has lost their minds.

Thanks for killing our kids and pets China, our bad.

Geez.

By @@

September 21, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

Wow, just scanning comments looking for something of interest. I’ve never done this before, but when you scan quickly it goes something like this…

“Hey so & so, you’re a jerk.”

“What the h3ll are you talking about moron?”

“Did I say that? or can you not read with your head up your a$$?”

It really is/was funny. I’m still laughing.

No wonder all those newcomers (cough cough) have a tendency to jump right into the fray.

Anyway, I saw this Mackey guy interviewed by John Stossel the other night.

Health Savings Accounts: Putting Patients in Control

It can be a win for the insurance companies and physicians, but only if they’re willing to compete.

It’s a win for the employer because it lowers their cost.

and it’s a win for consumers because they have the freedom to choose.

(((When she went to the doctor, Whole Foods employee Mary Ann Buttros never asked, “How much will this cost?”)))

(((“Because it didn’t matter,” Buttros said. “And now it matters to me, because it’s my money.”)))

(((Because it is Buttros’ money, some people worry that Health Savings Accounts will discourage people from getting the preventive care that they need or that they’ll shortchange their health to economize.)))

(((“The premise in those kind of questions … are that people are stupid. They’re not smart enough to make these decisions for themselves. It’s sort of an elitist attitude,” Mackey said. “The individual is the best judge of what’s right for the individual.”)))

(((“But if everybody was out there asking doctors what things cost, if doctors were advertising their prices,” Mackey said, “we’d begin to see prices dropping.”)))

By Dusty

September 21, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

Bosch @10:49

You are right, Bosch. You are not like other people. I am thankful for that.

For instance, I put something in quotation marks that YOU posted yourself i.e.”rhetorical and propaganda” and then you want to know where I got it from. Do you not know what you post?

You noted that “bosch” and “borsch” were similar and I didn’t know the difference at one time. That’s an insult?

I have no interest in your personal life whatsoever. I only know what you have mentioned. As you post about “your children”, I did assume there was a woman involved.

I am sorry about your father and wish him a complete recovery. I have lost both of my parents and it is an agonizing loss.

By the way, you didn’t mention whether you had given all your money to the poor? Since you have given us your instructions on Christian principles (last line @ 8:53..Remember????), I thought you might have already done that.

By raisedanidiot

September 21, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

hello all…not sure how this is gonna work…posting from my phone…having computer woes…2 things…moveon is a catalyst…irritating repugs is a bonus…i see nothing congress should be sweating over…they had better be sweating working with dems to bring troops home…america is demanding it…also bosch right again….americans have gone off the deep#end with med care…people treat me as if im being neglegent when i dont go to the doctor…i will go when im sick and cant help myself…dont have ins. dont intend on it…kay sah rah sa rah…sp.?

By Goldie

September 21, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

RW @ 10:39 — I’ll take chardonnary any day over the bad Kool-Aid that you’ve been drinking!

By Goldie

September 21, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

{{They all can go directly to Hades.}}

Midori— I’ll drink to that! After all, it IS Friday…

By Goldie

September 21, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

{{By the way, you didn’t mention whether you had given all your money to the poor? Since you have given us your instructions on Christian principles}}

Dust-For-Brains, please be sure to give us the verse and stanza that states “give all of your money to the poor” — thanks in advance for nothing.

By Nelson Mandela

September 21, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

Someone tell your shiitforbrains president that I’m not dead!

By Luckoduh

September 21, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

{{{{By bj in ky September 21, 2007 11:46 AM It’s very easy to advocate killing when you have never killed, or dying when you have never seen death.}}}}

This is a volunteer army, with risks that they fully understand.

And I guarantee you, that every day that those brave soldiers gear up, lock and load, they are all thinking about those innocent office workers that went to work one day not knowing it would be their last, never being able to say goodbye to their loved ones or make their peace with the world, no, the only choice they were given was to burn to death or jump 100 stories to the ground below.

Imagine some tourist in a discotheque or a cafe, that suddenly explodes, ripping their children apart, and all they can do is watch them die.

We have a basic responsibility to rid America of this threat and, by extension, also rid the world of this evil.

{{{{We can’t conquer the Middle East; that’s been tried again and again.}}}}

This is your major misconception, where you totally missed the point of our mission and of our purpose, mainly because the pinko propaganda sounds so good to you and your kind.

The United States of America is not a conquer, we never have been and will never be.

What we are doing is freeing people from Fascism, from religious enslavement, from extremism, without asking anything of them in return.

These people listened to the same BS that you spout, surprise, surprise, bj, the world listens to the crap the left wing spews and they believed it.

But now the are finding out for their themselves, first hand, they are seeing that the Imans are POS liars, that Americans are good and that Al Qaeda is evil.

That’s why you libs are so excited now, because you know full well that the tide has turned, and that this war is ours to win.

And nothing makes me happier to see you cowards squirm.

Bush is going to be a hero and there ain’t nothing you can do about it.

By steve-o

September 21, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this

{{{Bush is going to be a hero and there ain’t nothing you can do about it.}}}

Duh,

LOL!!! What the hell flavor of KoolAid have they given you? Please let me know! Maybe I can serve some to Halle Berry and convince her that I’m her one and only. LOL!

By Bosch

September 21, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

Dusty, Why thank you Dusty, I’m glad you are thankful that I’m not like most people. I rather enjoy my uniqueness.

Your circular logic is really amazing. You really get into a frenzy when someone challenges you. Sigh.

Okay, so I posted the words “rhetoric and propoganda” in reference as to how you form your black and white opinion, so, please forgive me, I can’t keep up with your logic, how did that exactly….well, hell, now I don’t even know what I’m trying to ask you Dusty, I just simply can’t follow your logic.

Where did I post instructions about Christian principles? This is what I said:

“I’m always amazed at people who claim to have such strong Christian principles make statements like that.”

Where’s the instruction in that?

No, I haven’t given up all my posessions, why do you ask? Why are you asking me random questions like that? What does anything I’ve mentioned have to do with giving up my posessions? You are just not making any sense Dusty.

So, I’ll ask you a direct question about healthcare that isn’t so random, but on topic for today’s cartoon:

Do you NOT think that ALL American citizens deserve access to affordable, quality healthcare?

And thank you for your kind wishes for my father. He’s a liberal like me — great minds think alike.

By raisedanidiot

September 21, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

lol…bosch, you’re fighting a bigger losing war than iraq when trying to apply dust ball to logic…she is very entertaining tho…you go girl! give bosch hell!…lmao…duh/dull/peter/paul or mary…again…sigh…iraq does not equal 9/11…dont force me to type this again dude…this aint easy on a keyboard for mice…tropical storm on its way too …driving miss dazy crazy man!

By Bosch

September 21, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

Raisedanidiot, You know, I’m just trying to get to the bottom of what makes Dusty tick. I’m having trouble following along though.

Does anyone here speak Dusty-ese? I’m afraid I left my translation manual at home today.

By Luckoduh

September 21, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Geez, listen to Dan Blather, freaking President Pinko, and his little errand boy whine:

{{{{What was different in our case was the brand new and bruising power of the conservative blogosphere, particularly the extremists among them. They formed a tightly knit community of keyboard assault artists who saw themselves as avenging angels of the right, determined to root out and decimate anything they believed to be disruptive to their worldview.}}}}

You mean like a totally fake letter that you paraded around the drive by media a week before the elections?

{{{{These critics blathered on about everything but the content. They knew they would lose that argument, so they didn’t raise it. They focused on the most obscure, most difficult to decipher element of the story and dove in, attacking CBS, Dan Rather, me, the story and the horse we rode in on — without respite, relentlessly, for days.}}}}

Fake content?

What a wanker.

By Midori

September 21, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Bosch, here is what makes Crusty kick

Her puppet master inserts the ignorant rant chip, winds her up, and viola!!

By Dusty

September 21, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

Goldie@ 1:04,

You asked about Christians giving to the poor.

Perhaps you have forgotten the story of the rich young leader who came to Jesus asking how to inherit eternal life. He told Jesus that he had obeyed all the commandments.

I quote from Luke 18, vs.22:”Now when Jesus heard these things he said unto him (rich young leader), ‘there is still one thing you lack.’ said Jesus. ‘Sell all you have and give the money to the poor—it will become treasure for you in heaven—-and come, follow me’.”

That is one reference to what I mentioned.

By @@

September 21, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

Paul will enjoy this article submitted by a Ukranian in a Ukranian paper. An excerpt:

(((Is there hope for Ukraine? Most people will tell you that even if there is, they will not live to see it blossom into anything substantial. I am one such person. I see no practical solutions anywhere, just absurdities. At the very least, comedy and comedians are thriving. There is nothing left to do but laugh, no matter what your background is.)))

(((My family, for example, recently attempted a political debate. We thought we’d have the stamina, being, at this time, better off than most. Each member of the family represented, or tried to represent, a rival faction. Votes on certain issues were cast. We dialogued, or, at least, attempted to out-scream one another. At the end of the evening, we elected the cat Prime Minister, and fumbled off to bed.)))

The article went on to say that no matter how bad things may be in Ukraine, they would never want to find themselves under the thumb of Putin.

I found ^^^ that when I was googling Ukraine+Russia and stumbled on this:

Steven Vincent: A Profile in Courage

(((“Iraq is too complicated for such simple analysis. … Now when I’m asked if the U.S. can succeed, I can only join others in answering: ‘We must. The prospect of failure in Iraq is too catastrophic to conceive.’”)))

(((This is the hallmark of true moral and intellectual courage, the willingness to take sides while always bearing in mind that you could be wrong — a kind of courage far rarer than physical courage.)))

Cool!

By Paul

September 21, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

@@

Just got back from lunch and saw your post. You are correct, I did. Thank you.

BTW - European humor is a bit different. I had a friend from Germany - biologist - researcher - asked him what he thought of American humor (his English was quite good). He replied much of American humor depends upon plays on words. He said he didn’t always understand the jokes, but he knew the right time to laugh!

By Dusty

September 21, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

Dear Bosch,

Do not worry your head about my opinions. I simply comment in honesty and truth and that throws you into confusion. You seem to think there is an ulterior motive behind anyone who does not think like you. That is your hang up, not mine.

You brought up Christian principles. I did not. I did elaborate on what you had mentioned.

I love debate when one side listens to the other and remembers what is said. Every Sunday morning I enjoy some very lively discussions. We discuss everything from various religions, current religious events and lifetime events that strike families everywhere. A most enjoyable morning without insults.

This blog has too much political hate. It is often intriguing but seldom pleasant.

By raisedanidiot

September 21, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

googling up for WWIII, boobs?…get all your propaganda ready…you’ve got a world to win…masses to kill…so little time…i expect to hear a ginormous microwave ding to go off any time ..if there is a history…bush will be the big boob at the end of the book.

By Clem

September 21, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

bj in ky: It may take a few days but you will quickly realize you are waaaaay over the heads of basics like Duh, RW, Dustmite. These cretins are but a stench in the nostrils of the very word, “intelligence.” Typical Murcans.

By Goldie

September 21, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

{{who came to Jesus asking how to inherit eternal life.}}

Dust-Brains, yeah the story in Luke certainly makes giving away all your possessions a good exchange for inheriting “eternal life”… of course, that’s never been discussed here on this blog, that “eternal life” stuff. When have those damm libruls EVER said anything about something like that???

But it certainly sounds like something that some of you extremist Christians would be preaching about — you know being “conservative” and that’s the same as inheriting “an eternal life” — , so why don’t you take your preaching somewhere that gives a hoot about what you believe?

By Fly-on-the-wall

September 21, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

Bosch, Please don’t say ‘deserve access to affordable, quality healthcared’ That is what the Republicans say we have now. Everyone has ‘access’ but if they can’t pay for it then they are turned away unless they are really poor or really rich. We need to keep the discussion towards - ‘we deserve affordable healthcare’.

By Bosch

September 21, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

No Dusty, The sad thing is Dusty, not too many people think like me, so if I had a hang-up about that, I’d be quite lonely, but I’m not.

You do not comment in honesty and truth, but in absolutes. You think your way IS the only way and someone has to point out that just isn’t right.

I did bring up Christian principles, but then you asked me a rather random question about whether or not I’ve given up my posessions - I just don’t understand your logic, that’s all.

In the few months I have appeared on this blog, I have YET to see you debate anything.

BTW, you didn’t answer MY question.

You are right - this blog does have too much hate, however, you are one of the main players in perpetuating that hate. I, am not.

By Bosch

September 21, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

Fly-on-the-wall, Sorry - thanks for pointing out my mistake.

I was trying to speak Dusty-ese - I thought that may be something she could understand.

Translation mix ups - they’re a b!tch.

By Goldie

September 21, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

{{A most enjoyable morning without insults.

This blog has too much political hate. It is often intriguing but seldom pleasant.}}

I agree with you there, Dust-Brains, and YOU ARE a big reason why this blog is seldom pleasant and contains so much “political hate”… that’s your guilty pleasure in life, coming here and calling people “cowards”, “traitors”, and other such hateful un-American words, simply because they disagree with your war-mongering politics…

Once again, thanks for nothing and your nothing contribution to this blog day after day… You really should take up knitting or something like that, and maybe you’ll finally be able to contribute something worthwhile to society.

By candide

September 21, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

TIME magazine has a story that Pope John Paul II was euthenized. Wouldn’t be the first time priests did what they wanted and told everyone else what to do.

Don’t do as I do, do as I tell you.

Would you trust those men in skirts?

By Bosch

September 21, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this

OH, OH, Goodness, I see something bad I posted -

Dusty, @2:31 - I meant to write, “You SEEM to think your way is the only way.”

I was being so hypocritical! I was writing in absolutes and complaining about it at the same time.

WHEW - glad I caught that and I sincerely apologize.

By raisedanidiot

September 21, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

oooooh snap! dust ball goes down again…she’ll never come out now that you’ve asked a direct quest….there goes our entertainment…thanks a lot bosch! :)

By Bosch

September 21, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

It’s okay raisedanidiot, Don’t worry, she’ll continue to name call, etc. She may not answer the direct question, but she’ll still show up.

Did you see that comment where she said that about all the hate on this blog? Was that not just the funniest thing coming from her? Thank goodness I am not drinking Coke right now, or I’d have one big mess to clean up!

By Fly-on-the-wall

September 21, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

Bosch, Please don’t say ‘deserve access to affordable, quality healthcare’ That is what the Republicans say we have now. Everyone has ‘access’ but if they can’t pay for it then they are turned away unless they are really poor or really rich. We need to keep the discussion towards - ‘we deserve affordable healthcare’.

By Paul

September 21, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

Paul Harvey’s radio update had a piece on a rocket propelled grenade interceptor. RPGs (enemy weapon) have caused hundreds of American casualties. Army procurement awarded a contract to Raytheon to develop one. Raytheon said to expect delivery in… 2011.

The thing is, Israel has them know. Army’s tested them, 100 percent effective. But we still gave a contract to Raytheon.

Well, since the Pentagon bureaucracy doesn’t willfully entertain reforms, since the current leadership doesn’t seem too willing to change (perhaps they remembered what happened to Rumsfeld) maybe, just maybe, Congress could change the laws they’ve written regarding procurement, then put in some requirements to build off-the-shelf equipment from foreign govt’s under such circumstances?

We got an earful from Democrats over the body armor, armored Humvee problems. Well, they have the Congress now.

Raytheon’s headquartered in Massachusetts. Shouldn’t make a difference to Sens Kerry or Kennedy. I just hope Kennedy doesn’t view this as he does wind farms.

The piece is at the three and a half minute mark:

Link: Army waits four years for equipment

By AmVet

September 21, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

To all of you who claim there is too much hate here - F@ck off and die!

Just kidding.

For a taste of some real venom, go over to Wooten’s and check out the insanity there! Jimbo’s ratings must have been way down (for a supposedly conservative blog, the neo-cons are outnumbered five to one!) so he noted the Jena6 story.

Wow! You talk about mindless bigots and people stuck in the past! Thank goodness none of us here qualify! (sarc off).

By Doomsday:Oct 5, 2007

September 21, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

ATTENTION EVERYONE:

On Friday Oct 5, 2007, I will release the name of the top blogger for 2007. I will also name the worst blogger for 2007. Most of you on both sides of the political spectrum have occasionally demonstrated sensibleness and mindlessness. Who has demomstrated the most in either category? Find out on October 5.

Doom

By Paul

September 21, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

Fly on the wall Bosch

“Affordable” health care.

I suppose that means it isn’t affordable now? But seriously, if that’s the assumption, then the costs have to come down, or the revenue available has to rise. What’ll it be?

If revenue has to rise under a new system, who pays? If costs are brought down, which ones? Cut equipment purchases? Restrict procedures? Reduce salaries?

I’m not sure “cutting out the insurance companies” will do it - esp as plans like Hillary’s depend upon insurance companies!

Something to keep in mind - med costs are increasing 6-8 percent a year? There’s a neat tool - Rule of 72s - use it to estimate when costs double, an investment doubles, the rate of return to use to obtain the doubling of an investment.

72 divided by 8 equals 9 (years until the total cost of all medical care doubles).

That’s if nothing changes. Given the Medidcare/Medicade situation, that’s just a tad unnerving.

By Fly-on-the-wall

September 21, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

In an attempt to take this discussion towards something more local did anyone else hear on the news this morning that our wonderful Republican controlled state house wants to propose during next year’s term to DEREGULATE insurance. It was stated that if this passed then insurance companies could raise or lower your insurance costs without having to get approval from the State Insurance Commision. My first question is WHY? What do they hope to gain from that? Who is complaining that insurance costs are so out of whack that they need to step in and do something. Do they think that this will reduce insurance costs for us? Where has deregulation lowered costs for any product that is a requirement, in fact, demanded by law to have? Do we need to start following the campaign contributions to see who is really pushing this?

By Right-wing nut job in full glory

September 21, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

I would like to point out that while I am completely opposed to ANY public money being spent on health care for Americans, I do support our funding of universal health care for the entire nations of Afghanistan and Iraq with US tax dollars.

Yes, that is right, we the right wing in America have completly financed health care for every Afghan and Iraqi, but tell you to go F yourself. Why? Because we are the patriotic, flag waving, non-hypocritical party. So F you, F your health, we’ve got some sick kids in Rahmadi to take care of you selfish prick!

I love the GOP. What party in the world could get support of a third of their nation if they sent their money overseas and told them to F off? Nobody could get away with that except the GOP. Hell, the damn Nazis would have been thrown out if they pulled this stuff. We are simply amazing.

RWNJIFG

By How would this affect Grady's situation

September 21, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

Paul,

Looks to me that Clinton’s health care plan would be too late for Grady. Do you think it would have made a difference, since a lot of their patients have no coverage? Maybe not since a lot of them have no job.

Doom

By bj in ky

September 21, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

Ah, Duh, just when I promised to go away, you refute comments so out of context you’re well on your way to becoming worthy of joining the media you hate. I’m pretty sure the troops know they’re fighting and dying for something — though they may have some disagreement over what it is. You insult an entire generation of Americans who fought for an ungrateful country in Vietnam (supposedly to deny a Communist revolution), then tell me about the bravery of the troops today. I’m in agreement; our troops are brave and they knew the job was dangerous when they took it. But I imagine like most troops they hoped to get a little support from their leaders. One month of war is an eternity; 16 months and quick redeployment is barbaric. No one is denying the tragedy of 9/11. We all pray that we never see the likes of it again. But while ideals may have placed the military in Iraq, those fade quickly, replaced by loyalty to men or women who fight at your side, period. As I said, my friend, killing and dying for a ‘cause’ are so easy when you’re not the one doing either. Salaam, dude.

By Denali

September 21, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

Pity the Neocons. How important they must feel. How frightened and small. So they console themselves with fake delusions of superiority.

Remember him/them as someone who saw sickness and tried to perpetuate it.

Who saw suffering and misery, and used it to increase hate-speak about healthcare. Some rightwing sociopaths see healthcare as it is and say “DIE!”

Others see healthcare as it could be and say “DIE A LOT!”

By Right wing nut job in full glory

September 21, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

Since I like pretending to be something I’m not, how about this:

We martians love the planet Earth. We can’t get enough of this warm tender atmosphere and its inhabitants. We considered traveling to Uranus, but the gas was to expensive. Hail Bette Midler! Well, I ‘m going to leave you now with the following advice- ” What goes up must come down” at least on your planet that this.

RWNJIFG

By Fly-on-the-wall

September 21, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Paul,

Without my insurance my healthcare costs would be unaffordable but my personal healthcare costs keep going up as my company keeps dropping what is available to me. This is what I mean by ‘affordable’. Right now I pay out of pocket $200/month in medication costs for my family. This is all before any deductables. I work for one of the Fortune 500s that takes care of their upper mgmt but not the workers. There seems to be a ‘race to the bottom’ on what corporations offer their employees. Please don’t tell me to just change jobs because that just doesn’t work, not in today’s market place. So, what does the conservative side say about affordable healthcare? Usually all I hear is that the U.S. has the best in the world. That’s great for those who can get it but there are too many in the great nation who do not have even access for reasons out of their control. You seem to be the one conservative here who can answer in complete sentences and without all of the verbal garbage so I’d love to hear from the other side. Thanks.

By AmVet

September 21, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

To all of you who claim there is too much hate here - F@ck off and die!

Just kidding.

For a taste of some real venom, go over to Wooten’s and check out the insanity there! Jimbo’s ratings must have been way down (for a supposedly conservative blog, the neo-cons are outnumbered five to one!) so he noted the Jena6 story.

Wow! You talk about mindless bigots and people stuck in the past! Thank goodness none of us here qualify! (sarc off).

By Paul

September 21, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

Bosch

Okay, okay, I know…

“Know-now” “build-buy” “Medicade-Medicaid”

I’m gonna sign off and give full concentration to the other monitor - in a minute -

Doom

I’m not familiar with Grady’s situation, so don’t know what’s behind the “too late.” But your question raises an important point - how will the various medical centers - private, state, local, for profit - be incorporated under any Federal system?

Missions could change if people who currently have no coverage will be able to rely upon noncharitable sources.

I understand Hillary’s plan relies upon tax credits to help poor people buy insurance. That was the point behind my “how do you give a credit to someone who pays no taxes?” I think it’d likely be in the form of a voucher for value of $n, equal to the credit.

Hopefully it would expand choice for people who now have very limited choice. I’m not sure of the impact on marginally performing centers. We’ll just have to see.

Fly-on-the-wall

Okay, today I’m a conservative.

That’s the cutting costs part - to make it more affordable for your company. It’s typical cost-shifting. That’s one of the problems I see with an employer-based system.

I wouldn’t think of saying “just change jobs.” Good luck on finding anything better - unless you went to work for local, state, or federal gov’t.

Most of what I read is heavy on theory - from the liberal side, too. I had one person tell me, well, we spend N on health care now, Michael Moore’s plan would cost the equivalent, so we’d just shift costs. Problem is, N is comprised of insurance, drug company, administrative (company/employer) costs. I don’t think if the Fortune 500 companies saw their overhead decrease by Y that they’d be agreeable to kicking that into the health care funding pool. So the other dollars have to come from somewhere.

Many, many Americans, even though with insurance, are one illness away from financial ruin. I just gotta believe there’s a better way to run a railroad.

BTW - I mentioned to my father once, the number of medications he takes, how much I pay a month for meds - he said, “yes, but think of the alternative!”

Gotta stay positive -